:00:41. > :00:44.Good morning and welcome back to the Daily Politics
:00:45. > :00:47.The Prime Minister is preparing to outline new measures to tackle the
:00:48. > :00:49.threat of terrorism from British Jihadis returning from Syria and
:00:50. > :00:53.Iraq. But are they necessary or practical?
:00:54. > :00:56.After his shock defection and resignation last week, will Douglas
:00:57. > :00:59.Carswell make history as the first politician to be elected as a UKIP
:01:00. > :01:04.MP? We'll assess the prospects for the forthcoming Clacton by-election.
:01:05. > :01:09.Is the Commons Speaker facing a full-scale mutiny from MPs over his
:01:10. > :01:12.choice of Commons Clerk? The former Deputy Speaker tells us why
:01:13. > :01:18.Australian Carol Mills is the wrong person for the job.
:01:19. > :01:21.And over three million people have done it, so why shouldn't
:01:22. > :01:30.politicians get in on the act? Keep watching to see three MPs get wet.
:01:31. > :01:37.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole of the programme on
:01:38. > :01:40.the first day of term at Westminster are the stellar team of
:01:41. > :01:42.former Children's Minister and Conservative MP Tim Loughton, former
:01:43. > :01:52.Labour Minister, Hazel Blears and the Liberal Democrat and former
:01:53. > :01:53.Foreign and Home Office Minister, Jeremy Browne.
:01:54. > :01:56.Welcome to the We will see if you stay dry for the
:01:57. > :02:05.rest of the programme. Welcome to the
:02:06. > :02:08.And if we look a bit different this afternoon, that's
:02:09. > :02:10.because we've relocated to the BBC's studios at Broadcasting House while
:02:11. > :02:13.our own studio at Westminster gets a High Definition make-over. There's
:02:14. > :02:17.something a little bit unusual about this studio and - if you want to
:02:18. > :02:19.find out more, I'll be recording a little explainer which we'll be
:02:20. > :02:22.putting on the Daily Politics website after the programme. So it's
:02:23. > :02:24.been a busy summer - particularly on the international scene with
:02:25. > :02:25.conflicts in Gaza, Iraq and the Ukraine. Parliament's back now. But
:02:26. > :02:34.should it have been recalled? Jeremy Browne? No, I don't think so.
:02:35. > :02:39.There is always a clamour for Parliament to be recalled and there
:02:40. > :02:43.are times when it is necessary, when there is a big decision that needs
:02:44. > :02:46.to be made to endorse what the Government is doing, but I don't
:02:47. > :02:50.think there has been a single black and white decision that has required
:02:51. > :02:53.Parliament to be recalled prematurely. Although it is good it
:02:54. > :02:56.is now back because it gives the House of Commons the opportunity
:02:57. > :03:01.over the next couple of weeks to discuss these matters and hold the
:03:02. > :03:09.executive to account. Hazel Blears, any action the Government decided to
:03:10. > :03:13.take with regard to Islamic State, should it have had the say-so of
:03:14. > :03:16.MPs? These are really important issues and I am delighted that the
:03:17. > :03:20.prominence that will make a full statement to the House and I am sure
:03:21. > :03:24.it will take many hours, because many MPs will have questions but I
:03:25. > :03:30.agree with Germany, I don't think there was a decision to put British
:03:31. > :03:34.troops on the ground -- I agree with Jeremy. There has not been a
:03:35. > :03:39.decision of that nature and I think we have we are now, we are looking
:03:40. > :03:42.at new legislation, new powers, new methods to tackle British youngsters
:03:43. > :03:46.who are going out and fighting in Syria, that is absolutely the
:03:47. > :03:49.business Parliament but I don't think there was a point where
:03:50. > :03:53.Parliament needed the emergency measure over the last three or four
:03:54. > :03:57.weeks. We will discuss those emergency measures. Do you agree,
:03:58. > :04:00.because many of your colleagues feel Parliament should have been
:04:01. > :04:05.recalled, although many will ask what MPs would have contributed
:04:06. > :04:15.mightily to contributed to the international situation the
:04:16. > :04:19.Schumacher it becomes a bit of a. It becomes a bit of a contest, I think
:04:20. > :04:23.we should have taken more action than we did. I don't think it
:04:24. > :04:28.required Parliament to come back and condone the action needed... You are
:04:29. > :04:32.talking about ISIS and the action needed? Yes, I think we should have
:04:33. > :04:37.helped with the air strikes and I think the Government should have
:04:38. > :04:42.gotten on with it, it was an urgent thing to do, as was humanitarian
:04:43. > :04:43.aid, but boots on the ground, action as Parliament no traditionally seems
:04:44. > :04:48.to need to have a say. should it have been recalled?
:04:49. > :04:52.It's the conflict in Syria and Iraq that's causing the biggest headache
:04:53. > :04:56.domestically. The brutal beheading of American Journalist James Foley -
:04:57. > :04:59.apparently by a British-born Jihadi fighting for Islamic State - brought
:05:00. > :05:01.into sharp focus the risks we could face here.
:05:02. > :05:04.It's estimated that 500 British Jihadis are fighting for Islamic
:05:05. > :05:08.State and other militant groups in Syria and Iraq, and so far 69 people
:05:09. > :05:12.have been arrested in the UK for Syria-related activity. On Friday,
:05:13. > :05:17.the Government raised the terrorism threat here from Substantial to
:05:18. > :05:21.Severe and is proposing new measures to tackle the threat from
:05:22. > :05:24.Islamist extremism. These include making it easier to remove passports
:05:25. > :05:27.through additional temporary seizure powers at the border and stopping
:05:28. > :05:33.British Citizens from re-entering the country if they are suspected of
:05:34. > :05:36.terrorist activity abroad. There are fears, though, that these measure
:05:37. > :05:39.could be against international law. leaving suspects stateless.
:05:40. > :05:42.Meanwhile, airlines could be required to reveal the full list
:05:43. > :05:46.of their passengers. There have also been calls for a return of control
:05:47. > :05:51.orders, used to keep terrorism suspects under close surveillance,
:05:52. > :05:53.and the Government has left open the possibility of supporting US air
:05:54. > :06:00.strikes against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.
:06:01. > :06:09.And we are joined by Haras Rafiq of the anti-extremism think tank the
:06:10. > :06:14.Quilliam Foundation. First of all, Jeremy Browne, Ming Campbell said
:06:15. > :06:18.yesterday, taking someone's citizenship away even temporarily
:06:19. > :06:24.could be illegal under international law. He is right. I am not an expert
:06:25. > :06:28.but it sounds like a convincing argument. I don't want to be set up,
:06:29. > :06:31.if you like, as the person who is not taking this threat extremely
:06:32. > :06:35.seriously because Hazel alluded to this and I share her concern, and I
:06:36. > :06:45.think the concern of most people in this country, about what we are
:06:46. > :06:48.witnessing on our television screens and what is happening across parts
:06:49. > :06:50.of Iraq and Syria and we will see what the Prime Minister says this
:06:51. > :06:52.afternoon. It is not necessarily the case that every response to
:06:53. > :06:56.extremism and terrorism requires new laws, we may have the existing
:06:57. > :06:59.legislation in place, but we do need to take this threat seriously and
:07:00. > :07:03.should not in any way diminish the nature of the threat not to just our
:07:04. > :07:09.country but to secular liberalism, which I think most people value. It
:07:10. > :07:12.is the response most people will be interested in, they wanted explain
:07:13. > :07:23.to them why somebody could go out and fight British, a British-born
:07:24. > :07:27.Jihadi, and fight for someone? My problem is whether you can stop a
:07:28. > :07:31.British-born person being in Britain. There are other elements
:07:32. > :07:35.about what people are doing, whether they have broken laws, we need to
:07:36. > :07:38.toughen those laws, whether we should be arresting people, but it
:07:39. > :07:42.is a different issue about whether you prevent a British person from
:07:43. > :07:45.coming to Britain and I can see there will be technical problems
:07:46. > :07:51.with that. As the Prime Minister over egged what can be achieved? He
:07:52. > :07:54.called this press conference on Friday, he talked about an increase
:07:55. > :07:58.in the terror threat. Was it necessary when he hadn't actually
:07:59. > :08:02.spoken to lawyers or coalition partners to find out what they can
:08:03. > :08:07.actually do to stop British jihadis coming home, if that is what they
:08:08. > :08:10.want to do? He can't win, because if he hadn't done something, people
:08:11. > :08:14.would ask why the Government isn't doing anything. We have to look at
:08:15. > :08:22.this carefully, it is very serious and we will hear more this
:08:23. > :08:24.afternoon. There is a problem with international law, there are two UN
:08:25. > :08:26.conventions, I understand, that we would breach if we leave somebody
:08:27. > :08:30.status, but I am most concerned about knowing where these people
:08:31. > :08:33.are, who they are, under surveillance and hopefully put under
:08:34. > :08:37.lock and key if they have done some of the things in this country -- in
:08:38. > :08:41.these countries. We cannot let them float around in the ether and turn
:08:42. > :08:47.up responsible for some atrocity without us knowing. But you agree
:08:48. > :08:49.that a British citizen can be stripped of their citizenship, be
:08:50. > :08:56.made stateless, if you like, if they were coming back from Syria by a
:08:57. > :09:01.turkey? What would you do with them? As I say, they would be floating
:09:02. > :09:05.around in the ether and you can not make somebody stateless. Isn't that
:09:06. > :09:10.what the Prime Minister and some ministers have implied they would
:09:11. > :09:13.do? No, we have said we will look at how we can work with our partners
:09:14. > :09:17.about what we can do with these people. Their liberty may be removed
:09:18. > :09:22.to stop them getting involved in these atrocities in the future. What
:09:23. > :09:25.you think should happen to a British-born person who goes out and
:09:26. > :09:30.is known to have fought in Syria or for the Islamic State and tries to
:09:31. > :09:34.return to Britain? First of all, we have to recognise that anybody who
:09:35. > :09:39.does that as a British citizen has broken the law, the Terrorism Act
:09:40. > :09:45.that came into place in 2006, when it says that anybody who fights for
:09:46. > :09:50.a foreign entity that is in conflict with the UK has broken the law. So
:09:51. > :09:54.we have got to look at locking those people up or charging them in an
:09:55. > :09:58.open court, arresting them, etc. But there will be a number of people who
:09:59. > :10:02.come back disillusioned, who may even be ready to fit back into
:10:03. > :10:07.society. I think we need to look at, in the long we can reintegrate these
:10:08. > :10:11.people. There is another element that has not been discussed. At the
:10:12. > :10:14.moment, this Government is focusing on doing something with these
:10:15. > :10:19.individuals, either making them stateless, which I is probably
:10:20. > :10:23.illegal as well, or locking people up, and it is still dealing with
:10:24. > :10:27.intervening with individuals once they have been identified. What this
:10:28. > :10:33.coalition Government has not done, and I have worked with projects with
:10:34. > :10:36.Hazel in the past, is build resilience in the community to
:10:37. > :10:40.counter the narratives to prevent them going in the first place. How
:10:41. > :10:45.many people to think we are talking about? The Government says around
:10:46. > :10:49.500, is that the sort of number you would say is broadly right? 500
:10:50. > :10:54.British-born citizens going out or could go out to fight? The reality
:10:55. > :10:59.is we don't know, 500 is an estimate. Some MPs have said 1,500,
:11:00. > :11:05.other experts say other numbers but the reality is we don't know,
:11:06. > :11:09.because Turkey is one way to enter for these Jihadist, there are other
:11:10. > :11:13.ways, some going in through Southeast Asia and disappearing
:11:14. > :11:18.there, so we don't know who has gone all for what reason all wear, some
:11:19. > :11:22.500 seems to be a conservative figure according to some experts.
:11:23. > :11:26.Just bear with us there, Hazel Blears, let's pick up on this point
:11:27. > :11:31.on individuals. Do you think control order should be brought back? Do you
:11:32. > :11:34.agree with Ed Miliband, who I think says would like them reinstated for
:11:35. > :11:38.people who come back here and are deemed to have committed a crime
:11:39. > :11:45.abroad? I took the control order through Parliament and it was hugely
:11:46. > :11:48.controversial, because... And the coalition partners did not
:11:49. > :11:52.supported. They did not, it was fought tooth and nail, but one of
:11:53. > :11:55.the powers in the control order is to relocate people away from their
:11:56. > :11:59.group when they are plotting and planning. We can send people from
:12:00. > :12:03.London to go and live in Ipswich and if you do that, police can keep a
:12:04. > :12:07.better eye on them and you can remove them from their associates
:12:08. > :12:12.where they are plotting. And I think if we put the power back into the
:12:13. > :12:16.abilities we have now, it is really important. And what Haras Rafiq was
:12:17. > :12:21.saying, I was the author of the Prevent programme, this Government
:12:22. > :12:24.have virtually abandoned it, working in communities to stop the next
:12:25. > :12:28.generation of young people being drawn into extremism. Give the
:12:29. > :12:34.Government make the wrong decision getting rid of control orders? At
:12:35. > :12:38.the time, they weren't working properly. Would you know supported?
:12:39. > :12:47.It would depend what they look like. This is a very new and dangerous
:12:48. > :12:53.threat. -- would you now support it? We were not having hundreds of
:12:54. > :12:58.people going overseas to fight and this is a new situation and we must
:12:59. > :13:00.consider everything. You are in favour of control orders being
:13:01. > :13:05.brought back into deal with people who have committed crimes. What
:13:06. > :13:08.should the Government do? If you are counter-terrorism minister, what
:13:09. > :13:14.would you be advising a Labour prime minister to do? I would like to hear
:13:15. > :13:19.from the Prime Minister a proper package. Hardly anybody has been
:13:20. > :13:23.prosecuted under the law, can we make it broader? What about people
:13:24. > :13:28.coming back to the intelligence services think have fought in Syria
:13:29. > :13:32.or Iraq and they fly back from Heathrow? I would want to keep them
:13:33. > :13:36.under the closest surveillance I could and powers in control orders
:13:37. > :13:40.help us to do that. I sit on the intelligence committee, I know what
:13:41. > :13:43.MI5 and MI6 can do and we have to make sure they have full powers to
:13:44. > :13:53.keep these people under close surveillance and where they can be
:13:54. > :13:55.prosecuted, and if they have been fighting in Syria, they have
:13:56. > :13:58.committed a terrorist offence, they need to be prosecuted, convicted and
:13:59. > :14:00.put in jail. But we need a much bigger plan to make sure we work
:14:01. > :14:03.with women, young people, communities and tackle this ideology
:14:04. > :14:08.and expose it for what a caliphate really looks like with sharia law,
:14:09. > :14:13.and it is not anybody's idea of a great place to live, so let's have
:14:14. > :14:17.that out in the Open and a proper debate. Would you take people's
:14:18. > :14:22.passport away if you are suspicious of them? If you have them on a
:14:23. > :14:24.watchlist, absolutely. The more you can prevent this, the less you have
:14:25. > :14:25.to pick can prevent this, the less you have
:14:26. > :14:33.up the pieces when people are radicalised. Are you, as a Liberal
:14:34. > :14:37.Democrat, signed up to strip people of their passports? Possibly their
:14:38. > :14:41.citizenship temporarily? We do it with football hooligans, let alone
:14:42. > :14:47.people who are likely to go and express themselves in terrorist ways
:14:48. > :14:51.in foreign conflicts. Look, let's see what the Prime Minister
:14:52. > :14:55.suggests. We want to live in an open, liberal society that believes
:14:56. > :14:59.in the rule of law. I am nervous about control orders that involve
:15:00. > :15:04.moving people around the country, because I come as an individual,
:15:05. > :15:07.want to live in that free country, but I take it seriously and the
:15:08. > :15:10.Liberal Democrats take these threats seriously both in terms of the
:15:11. > :15:13.people who have been there, and I think it would be reasonable to
:15:14. > :15:19.detain them and interview them and see if they have broken the law, and
:15:20. > :15:23.if they have, put them on trial, and I agree with Hazel on this point,
:15:24. > :15:26.they are, if you like, the tip of the iceberg. There are a wider
:15:27. > :15:33.number of people who might be sympathetic but would not go to
:15:34. > :15:35.Syria and we need to address why they are sympathetic and explain
:15:36. > :15:38.more widely and effectively than we are at the moment the merits and
:15:39. > :15:43.virtues of living in an open, free, liberal, secular society. Would you
:15:44. > :15:47.block this package of measures if control orders are at the heart of
:15:48. > :15:50.it? My suspicion is the package of measures will be agreed by both
:15:51. > :15:55.parties before they go to Parliament. Are the negotiations
:15:56. > :16:02.going well? Speaker I am not a member of Parliament. The money
:16:03. > :16:08.being cut to prevent, was that mistake? It was a programme both
:16:09. > :16:17.guests have said was important in stopping people being persuaded by
:16:18. > :16:21.ideology. We need to do a lot more to nip this at the source and to get
:16:22. > :16:25.into the mind of some of these people who have come from good
:16:26. > :16:29.families and have decent jobs and turn up on the other side of the
:16:30. > :16:35.world with a machine gun as part of terror atrocities. Why are they
:16:36. > :16:41.might doing this? We have to engage with the Muslim communities. Some of
:16:42. > :16:46.the comments are helpful so that communities in this country who are
:16:47. > :16:50.British, who have a Muslim faith, will not tolerate this and they will
:16:51. > :16:55.be doing their bit before it takes hold in the minds. The brainwashing
:16:56. > :16:58.of some of these young people, all of these things must come into the
:16:59. > :17:07.mix. Are you reassured that this will happen? No. The department for
:17:08. > :17:12.communities, local government, was tasked to tackle this ideology, to
:17:13. > :17:15.come up with a strategy, and we are still waiting for it. It is
:17:16. > :17:22.disturbing for me as someone involved in the task force to still
:17:23. > :17:28.here politicians saying we have to explore why these people are doing
:17:29. > :17:34.it. We know that. It is an ideology. If we do not tackle the ideology and
:17:35. > :17:37.build the resilience, we will be talking in five years time about a
:17:38. > :17:41.bigger number that have gone somewhere. There are people working
:17:42. > :17:48.in the UK, the Muslim Brotherhood and others, who have been priming
:17:49. > :17:49.are youngsters for decades unchallenged. Let us do something
:17:50. > :17:55.about it. Thank you. Is it a) E-cigarettes,
:17:56. > :18:05.b) Powerful vacuum cleaners c) Bananas over 30 centimetres
:18:06. > :18:08.in length, or d) Nigel Farage. At the end of the show we'll see
:18:09. > :18:11.if any of our guests knows Former Conservative MP Douglas
:18:12. > :18:25.Carswell's decision to defect to UKIP and resign his Commons seat
:18:26. > :18:28.came as a bombshell last week. Its shockwaves are likely to
:18:29. > :18:30.reverberate over the coming months. A Survation poll
:18:31. > :18:32.in the constituency suggested that David Cameron faces a humiliating
:18:33. > :18:38.defeat in the constituency. It gave Mr Carswell and UKIP
:18:39. > :18:41.a 40% lead over the Conservatives. It's all an unwanted distraction
:18:42. > :18:44.for David Cameron as he tries to focus his troops on winning next
:18:45. > :18:48.year's general election. Interviewed during a walkabout
:18:49. > :18:51.in his constituency last Friday, Douglas Carswell explained that he
:18:52. > :18:54.had lost faith with the Tory I answer to local people,
:18:55. > :18:57.they are my boss. answer to them and remain
:18:58. > :19:03.in the Conservative fold, because I want serious change,
:19:04. > :19:06.I couldn't bear to spend the next eight or nine months
:19:07. > :19:08.pretending that the people at the top of the Conservative Party
:19:09. > :19:11.were prepared to give real change. I like David Cameron, he's a nice
:19:12. > :19:14.guy, he's actually quite fun, he is quite amusing company,
:19:15. > :19:18.which is rare for a politician. You have stabbed him in the back,
:19:19. > :19:21.this is pretty disastrous for him, coming just a few months
:19:22. > :19:23.before the election. I don't think I have ever
:19:24. > :19:25.stabbed anyone in the back. Maybe I have occasionally stabbed
:19:26. > :19:28.one or two people in the front. I think he is not serious
:19:29. > :19:33.about change and I have put my political career on the line
:19:34. > :19:36.and I'm saying to people in Clacton this morning if you really want
:19:37. > :19:38.change, let's do this together. We're joined now by
:19:39. > :19:50.UKIP's Patrick O'Flynn, Not that long ago, Douglas Carswell
:19:51. > :19:54.said Eurosceptics should rally around David Cameron because he is
:19:55. > :20:01.the only potential Prime Minister committed to an in-out referendum.
:20:02. > :20:05.He is right. He was wanting to give David Cameron the benefit of the
:20:06. > :20:09.doubt immediately after UKIP had forced him into that U-turn about an
:20:10. > :20:15.in-out referendum being the way to go. The early part of this year,
:20:16. > :20:22.Douglas became convinced that David Cameron not serious. And that David
:20:23. > :20:25.Cameron was at best planning area run of the Harold Wilson cynical
:20:26. > :20:35.duplicitous deceit of the British people. A kind of fake
:20:36. > :20:43.renegotiation. Given rocket boosters by the establishment. He did not
:20:44. > :20:51.find that attractive. What do you say to that? If UKIP and Douglas are
:20:52. > :20:55.serious about wanting a referendum and Patrick thinks the Prime
:20:56. > :21:00.Minister is not serious about renegotiation we can have a
:21:01. > :21:07.referendum if we have a Conservative government. By doing what he has
:21:08. > :21:11.done, he is a great thinker, I like him, but this is a serious and
:21:12. > :21:20.bizarre error of judgement. He has made having that referendum, there
:21:21. > :21:24.is no prospect of us not having a referendum on the future membership
:21:25. > :21:30.of the year. By jumping ship like this, by making it less likely we
:21:31. > :21:35.will have a Conservative government, there will be no referendum. He has
:21:36. > :21:40.shot himself in the foot. He says he has lost faith in the Prime
:21:41. > :21:45.Minister. He does not think there is anything in the renegotiation. He is
:21:46. > :21:51.not alone. It is not helpful, and if that is what he thinks, it does not
:21:52. > :21:55.matter, because he can vote now. I am part of a group and we spend a
:21:56. > :22:00.lot of time speaking to other European politicians to see how the
:22:01. > :22:04.prospects for renegotiation are and there are serious prospects. It is
:22:05. > :22:09.less likely than likely we will get sufficient renegotiation successes
:22:10. > :22:14.and if that is the case I will vote to come out, as well a lot of
:22:15. > :22:17.Conservative MPs. I want a referendum so me and my constituents
:22:18. > :22:24.have that choice to decide whether it has gone far enough. Doing what
:22:25. > :22:29.Douglas has done and what UKIP are doing makes that referendum less
:22:30. > :22:32.likely to happen. There will be many politicians who would say you are
:22:33. > :22:37.handing the election to Labour. It is interesting that Tim came close
:22:38. > :22:43.to saying that the Conservatives are going to lose the next election.
:22:44. > :22:51.That is novel. I am not sure he said that. And so the question. The state
:22:52. > :22:55.of British politics, it is a matter of trust having to be rebuilt. I
:22:56. > :23:00.remember from three or four years ago the Conservative Party
:23:01. > :23:03.passionately supporting the first past the post system because they
:23:04. > :23:08.said everyone stands for what they might believe in. People have one
:23:09. > :23:14.vote for their first choice party. They seem to think it has occurred
:23:15. > :23:17.to them that they cannot win under their system and are trying to
:23:18. > :23:25.impose some special duty to stand aside to minute you late the
:23:26. > :23:32.electorate. -- manipulate. Democracy demands that we stand and fight and
:23:33. > :23:37.offer the voters what we believe in. There have been reports of almost
:23:38. > :23:41.100 Tory MPs going into the next election with a personal pledge to
:23:42. > :23:50.leave the European Union. Will you do that? No. Our group is about
:23:51. > :23:55.getting a serious renegotiation and when we have that we will decide if
:23:56. > :24:01.it is good enough. I will vote now if that really was the issue has not
:24:02. > :24:09.done enough. Why not make a personal pledge? To say that you will vote
:24:10. > :24:14.no. Make a promise in the manifesto. I did not think I was in a marginal
:24:15. > :24:19.seat, but I have said clearly that I will vote no in a referendum in
:24:20. > :24:24.2017, which we can only get under a Conservative government, if the
:24:25. > :24:29.reform has not gone far enough. If they did is less likely than likely
:24:30. > :24:33.that we will get everything we need -- I think it is. We can only do
:24:34. > :24:38.that if we have enough Conservative MPs to form a government and what
:24:39. > :24:42.Douglas has done... His leader at the last election said they would
:24:43. > :24:48.not stand against Conservative MPs who committed to a referendum on
:24:49. > :24:53.Europe, and they have done that. Will you go easy on those Tory MPs
:24:54. > :25:00.who make personal pledges in the manifesto? I am delighted to see
:25:01. > :25:07.more and more Tory MPs are shifting their position. I remember October
:25:08. > :25:13.2011. There were not 300 Conservative MPs supporting the
:25:14. > :25:16.referendum, there were 81. Against David Cameron saying it was not in
:25:17. > :25:23.the national interest. This government have no bottom line, as
:25:24. > :25:29.we have seen on education policy. People do not trust this government.
:25:30. > :25:34.Will you go easy on Tory candidates in seats where they have made
:25:35. > :25:41.personal pledges in their manifestoes? Absolutely not. If they
:25:42. > :25:47.can persuade organisations of good games, maybe at local level there
:25:48. > :25:53.will be some going easy, that applies to different parties. Brown
:25:54. > :26:00.is on the sceptic wing of the Liberal Democrats. We will come to
:26:01. > :26:07.your scepticism in a moment. What about Labour? Why is Clacton not a
:26:08. > :26:12.target seat for Labour? It used to be a Labour seat. Why are you not
:26:13. > :26:25.going for it. Is it because you have nothing to offer the people of black
:26:26. > :26:28.-- Clacton? The bread and butter of politics... We have a reread play of
:26:29. > :26:38.what happened to John Major. You remember those men in striped
:26:39. > :26:46.blazers. What do BCI again? Playing. Why is Labour not playing?
:26:47. > :26:51.You could have tapped into a nerve of the British people around Europe
:26:52. > :26:56.and immigration. Which you failed to do. What that says to all the other
:26:57. > :27:04.parties we have to have answers for the British public. I hope this
:27:05. > :27:08.by-election exposes UKIP on the NHS. They want to privatise it. They want
:27:09. > :27:16.one tax rate for everybody. None of that comes across. You are a one
:27:17. > :27:28.club pony. What about Roger Lord? One of the papers says, ie I'm going
:27:29. > :27:32.to rip his throat out. I do not think anyone could see Douglas
:27:33. > :27:36.Carswell has been parachuted into Clacton. The party followed its
:27:37. > :27:40.rules that when there is a by-election the National executive
:27:41. > :27:47.committee gets to vote on who the candidate should be. Those
:27:48. > :27:53.ridiculous assertions on the NHS, it is Labour peers in the House of
:27:54. > :27:58.Lords who wants to force charging in the NHS. UKIP stands behind the NHS.
:27:59. > :28:05.We wanted to be a National Health Service and not a world health
:28:06. > :28:10.service -- want it to be. We are not in favour of a flat tax but we want
:28:11. > :28:14.to give working people a break and keeping more of their money. When
:28:15. > :28:22.the manifesto gets written, we will know exactly. The migration figures
:28:23. > :28:30.have not helped. Net migration has soared to 243,000 and you promise to
:28:31. > :28:34.get it to under 100,000 by next year. We have not and it looks
:28:35. > :28:40.unlikely. We have to look at new measures. This business about UKIP
:28:41. > :28:43.surging in the polls, it is not just about the EU, it is about
:28:44. > :28:49.immigration, and that is going to have to be addressed. Do you think
:28:50. > :28:54.the pledge to get net migration to 100,000 is as bad as your pledge on
:28:55. > :28:59.tuition fees? Could it be as bad in the election if they break it?
:29:00. > :29:05.People will vote on what they consider to be most significant. You
:29:06. > :29:09.never really hear Conservatives taking UKIP on on the issues. They
:29:10. > :29:16.seemed to concede the issues. They say if you vote UKIP it is more
:29:17. > :29:20.likely that Ed Miliband will become Prime Minister. A lot of people do
:29:21. > :29:29.not mind whether Ed Miliband or David Cameron as Prime Minister --
:29:30. > :29:33.is Prime Minister, it is wider. I do not think we should dismiss it as a
:29:34. > :29:42.flash in the pan but I think we have to think imaginatively... They are
:29:43. > :29:46.the protest party rather than you. I think they represent some values
:29:47. > :29:49.which are not necessarily in the national interest but I think we
:29:50. > :29:52.should discuss how to take our country in the best direction.
:29:53. > :30:03.Rather than trying to outmanoeuvre them. Thank you.
:30:04. > :30:05.Now, could the Commons Speaker be facing a mutiny amongst MPs?
:30:06. > :30:08.John Bercow has upset some of them over who should be
:30:09. > :30:10.the next Clerk of the House of Commons.
:30:11. > :30:12.The candidate picked by a panel including the Commons Speaker
:30:13. > :30:16.But there are doubts about her qualifications to advise MPs
:30:17. > :30:20.Now more than 80 MPs have signed a motion demanding that Ms Mills
:30:21. > :30:23.appear before a Select Committee before her appointment is confirmed.
:30:24. > :30:26.The Commons Clerk isn't a high-profile role in the outside
:30:27. > :30:30.world, but inside the Commons chamber they're pretty important.
:30:31. > :30:32.Before the summer, I went to meet outgoing Clerk Robert Rogers
:30:33. > :30:40.Well, I think there are two aspects to my job.
:30:41. > :30:42.The principal constitutional adviser to the House,
:30:43. > :30:45.and advisor on all its procedure of business - but, of course,
:30:46. > :30:48.I have a lot of extremely able people to help me with that
:30:49. > :30:51.but the buck on those issues does stop with me.
:30:52. > :30:54.The other part of the job, which only I think two or three
:30:55. > :30:58.of my predecessors would recognise as it is now,
:30:59. > :31:05.is being Chief Executive of the House of Commons' service.
:31:06. > :31:11.Robert Rogers there. We are joined by former Deputy Speaker Nigel
:31:12. > :31:15.Evans. Welcome back to the Daily Politics, why is Carol Mills, the
:31:16. > :31:23.Australian lady, the wrong person for the job? We don't know, is the
:31:24. > :31:27.answer, but we do know there is a lot of disquiet and controversy
:31:28. > :31:30.about the appointment. I am on the public and administration select
:31:31. > :31:34.committee and the chairman, Bernard Jenkin, has suggested we have a
:31:35. > :31:38.pre-appointment hearing but since that has happened, you rightly point
:31:39. > :31:41.out that a lot of backbenchers, during recess, have signed an early
:31:42. > :31:46.day motion showing their disquiet about this. The speaker himself now
:31:47. > :31:52.appears to say let's have a look at the job, maybe splitting the job. So
:31:53. > :31:56.if that is the case, clearly today when Mr Speaker makes an
:31:57. > :32:00.announcement at 2:30 p.m., I would expect him to say that the
:32:01. > :32:04.appointment of Carol Mills now ceases and we need to look at the
:32:05. > :32:08.sort of job that is going to be advertised and, of course, if it is
:32:09. > :32:13.split, it could go to anybody to apply for either the job of a Clerk
:32:14. > :32:18.or the chief executive. And I know that all of your viewers today, it
:32:19. > :32:23.may seem a little bit mundane and arcane and navel-gazing compared to
:32:24. > :32:24.all of the other important issues, from terrorism to Ukraine and a
:32:25. > :32:27.number of other issues, that are from terrorism to Ukraine and a
:32:28. > :32:30.number of other issues, that hitting the headlines today, but most of
:32:31. > :32:33.those issues will come before Parliament and therefore we need to
:32:34. > :32:36.ensure that the mechanics of Parliament is absolutely right and
:32:37. > :32:42.that is why there is so much interest here. So you are saying
:32:43. > :32:46.that John Bercow, you expect him to climb down over the appointment that
:32:47. > :32:52.he would like to see, Carol Mills? That that will now go and there will
:32:53. > :32:57.be a process? I think there are so many senior, from Jack Straw to
:32:58. > :33:03.Margaret Beckett, across Parliament, have said they are uneasy about the
:33:04. > :33:05.process being followed and even people in Australia have questioned
:33:06. > :33:09.whether Carol Mills is the right person for the job, but I expect
:33:10. > :33:12.John Bird go to at least make an announcement that the whole process
:33:13. > :33:18.has stopped -- John De Caux. It is only fair to Carol Mills as well. I
:33:19. > :33:25.feel very sorry for her, she has been thrown into the maelstrom of a
:33:26. > :33:37.process that has gone very adrift. What about John Virgo's judgement?
:33:38. > :33:42.Has it gone awry? -- John Bercow. It is not his say-so alone, he had his
:33:43. > :33:46.own committee there. I do believe he should have had one of the Deputy
:33:47. > :33:51.Speakers on that committee. He had Lindsay Hoyle when Sir Robert Rogers
:33:52. > :33:55.was chosen and there was no deputy when this was chosen. The deputies
:33:56. > :33:58.deal with the Clerk on a daily basis and that is why I believe that if we
:33:59. > :34:02.are stopping the process, looking at the mechanics, and it comes up for
:34:03. > :34:07.re-advertising, I believe we need a deputy on that particular committee.
:34:08. > :34:13.Do you believe the job should be split? It will cost more. Well, that
:34:14. > :34:17.is one of the considerations that needs to be taken into account but
:34:18. > :34:20.we do need a select committee parliamentarians to be able to look
:34:21. > :34:27.at this particular recommendation of the Speaker, but it should be split,
:34:28. > :34:31.and it is up to them to say yes or no. I don't believe it is the role
:34:32. > :34:35.of the Speaker to say the Clerk's job should be split. There was a
:34:36. > :34:41.cross-party panel, including the likes of Andrew Lansley, a former
:34:42. > :34:44.Commons leader, Angela Eagle, from labour, and Margaret Hodge from the
:34:45. > :34:53.Labour Party, surely they were involved? They were. But they made
:34:54. > :34:57.the wrong decision. Information has come out since that there were
:34:58. > :35:02.perhaps issues in Australia, where she has expertise in Administration
:35:03. > :35:06.but no expertise at all in the Erskine May aspect of Sir Robert's
:35:07. > :35:10.job, which is sitting in front of the Speaker and giving information
:35:11. > :35:14.on a regular basis. That is the issue that needs to be resolved,
:35:15. > :35:17.that if the Speaker decided to carry on with this particular appointment,
:35:18. > :35:21.which I don't believe he will, there needs to be a pre-appointment
:35:22. > :35:28.hearing to establish whether Carol Mills is able to do the job. If
:35:29. > :35:32.not, we need a proper committee to look at the mechanics of the job and
:35:33. > :35:34.start all over again. Just before you go, the defection and
:35:35. > :35:38.resignation of Douglas Carswell has shaken things up in Clacton. The
:35:39. > :35:43.polls suggest Douglas Carswell will run away with it, and you said to me
:35:44. > :35:49.yesterday, a part of me thinks we should sit it out, it is a total
:35:50. > :35:59.distraction. I said of May. I said a part! -- I said a bit of me. But the
:36:00. > :36:02.larger part says, let's get down to Clacton and ensure we get the
:36:03. > :36:07.referendum that all of the Tories want to see an Hazel Blears' party
:36:08. > :36:17.is stopping us from getting. Let's get back and let the people decide.
:36:18. > :36:20.Have you been sat on, Nigel? Not at all, Hazel! What do you think should
:36:21. > :36:30.happen, do you think they should split the role and give Carol Mills
:36:31. > :36:33.the executive position? I would say this is a cross-party committee with
:36:34. > :36:35.the Speaker, it wasn't the Speaker making the decision. It is pretty
:36:36. > :36:39.complicated, you are the Chief Executive of the House of Commons.
:36:40. > :36:43.Robert Rogers did a pretty good job. He did, but being an expert
:36:44. > :36:47.parliamentarian as well as chief executive is not a blend, so it may
:36:48. > :36:51.well be that you need to split the roles. And there I said, there are
:36:52. > :36:54.politics being used here, there are people who do not like the Speaker,
:36:55. > :36:59.have never liked him, will never like him, and I think there has been
:37:00. > :37:06.some politicking. I will also say, and it is just my view, I wonder if
:37:07. > :37:11.there had been all of this furore if there was a man being appointed?
:37:12. > :37:15.Well, are their politics here and is it because a number of your
:37:16. > :37:20.colleagues have an axe to grind with John Bercow and it was a good stick
:37:21. > :37:24.to beat him with? I don't think it was in this case, I think he has
:37:25. > :37:28.been good as the Speaker, although I have some issues with some of the
:37:29. > :37:32.things he has done, but he has overreached. I fail to see how we
:37:33. > :37:36.have to go all the way to Australia but somebody who is not obviously
:37:37. > :37:42.qualified for the job, to take up an important role that has been done as
:37:43. > :37:44.a single role for many years, fantastically by Robert Rogers and
:37:45. > :37:47.this whole issue of whether we should split the roles, very
:37:48. > :37:52.expensive, has only come about to get the Speaker out of a hole he has
:37:53. > :37:56.dug himself into. He is there to protect the independence of the
:37:57. > :38:00.backbenchers against the executive but it may need the executive to
:38:01. > :38:05.block this post to actually protect backbenchers from a Clerk who,
:38:06. > :38:11.actually, most of us can't see why we have do have. It is nothing to do
:38:12. > :38:14.with her being a woman or a man. If anything, the Speaker is making it
:38:15. > :38:18.an issue, he is trying to show he is modernised by making it a woman, but
:38:19. > :38:27.I am sure many other good women should be considered. It is not
:38:28. > :38:29.about the sex of the person, it is about being good for the job and
:38:30. > :38:31.Parliament needs to have confidence in the person. Talking of
:38:32. > :38:36.confidence, is there any case to be made here, as some of your
:38:37. > :38:40.colleagues are saying, it should be confidence in John Bercow?
:38:41. > :38:43.It is an issue for John Bercow, if he is determined to push it
:38:44. > :38:47.through, when there are serious concerns being raised about the
:38:48. > :38:52.qualifications of this person and it is being done in the face concerns.
:38:53. > :38:58.You must have a speaker a Clerk who command the confidence of the vast
:38:59. > :39:03.majority of backbenchers -- and a Clerk. Only 85 MPs have signed this
:39:04. > :39:09.motion, that is still a minority of MPs. It is, although, strictly
:39:10. > :39:13.speaking, Government ministers don't sign them. But I think for people
:39:14. > :39:17.who are watching this back home wondering what on earth we are
:39:18. > :39:22.talking about, the crucial thing it back at delete is it is not about
:39:23. > :39:26.Carol Mills, it is about John Bercow. I voted for John Bercow to
:39:27. > :39:31.be the Speaker, and in many ways, he has been a breath of fresh air,
:39:32. > :39:32.sharper than his predecessor, and I think a lot of people admire
:39:33. > :39:33.sharper than his predecessor, and I think a some aspects of the
:39:34. > :39:36.sharper than his predecessor, and I think a lot of people admire way he
:39:37. > :39:40.does the job. But I think there is some wider discontent, particularly
:39:41. > :39:44.on the Conservative benches. It is like if you go to a rugby match or a
:39:45. > :39:47.football match, the best referees are the ones you can't remember, and
:39:48. > :39:51.there is a widespread feeling among a lot of MPs that you don't really
:39:52. > :39:58.want a rectory who thinks the match is all about him. So you don't like
:39:59. > :39:58.John Bercow? No, I am trying to explain
:39:59. > :40:02.is all about him. So you don't like John Bercow? for the benefit of your
:40:03. > :40:06.viewers why we are talking about this obscure subject and I think
:40:07. > :40:10.there is a feeling that the chair should be impartial and discharge
:40:11. > :40:13.his duties in a calm and dispassionate way and people admire
:40:14. > :40:18.aspects of what John is doing, but at the same time, sometimes think he
:40:19. > :40:21.needs a video referee to back him up. This speaker has done
:40:22. > :40:24.needs a video referee to back him up. This speaker has more to get
:40:25. > :40:26.urgent questions before the House, bringing more backbenchers, we can
:40:27. > :40:29.all agree on that. bringing more backbenchers, we can
:40:30. > :40:36.all agree Which is what he is good at. He is offside. It is the MPs'
:40:37. > :40:43.first week back after a six-week break and there is much to catch up
:40:44. > :40:44.on. We will be speaking to Isabel Hardman and James Lyons, but first,
:40:45. > :40:50.look at what is on the agenda. Tomorrow, the Prime Minister is
:40:51. > :40:53.expected to chair the first Cabinet On Wednesday will be the first
:40:54. > :40:56.Prime Minister's Questions The NATO summit begins in Wales
:40:57. > :41:00.on Thursday to discuss events in Ukraine and the future role
:41:01. > :41:03.of NATO in Afghanistan once all On Friday, the conference
:41:04. > :41:06.season kicks off in earnest. The Greens head to Birmingham
:41:07. > :41:21.for their annual gathering. Let's chat to Isabel and James,
:41:22. > :41:26.welcome to the Daily Politics, first day back and all that. Isabel, the
:41:27. > :41:29.terror measures, has there been a lot of rhetoric and in the end, the
:41:30. > :41:34.measures won't meet what is promised? I think David Cameron had
:41:35. > :41:38.to give his press conference on Friday to soften up the Lib Dems to
:41:39. > :41:41.get anything agreed at all, so announcing that the threat level had
:41:42. > :41:45.been increased and there were gaps in the armoury, as he called it,
:41:46. > :41:50.with a way of starting negotiations with coalition partners, so it may
:41:51. > :41:55.be that what we see is finally agree does not match up to the threat he
:41:56. > :41:58.was describing. What about control orders, James Lyons? We have heard
:41:59. > :42:05.on this programme and from others that micro-Labour will back them. Is
:42:06. > :42:10.that on the agenda? I think it is firmly of the agenda, and as I
:42:11. > :42:15.understand it, discussions are still ongoing -- off the agenda. We not
:42:16. > :42:18.even going to see the terrorism investigation and prevention
:42:19. > :42:24.measures, which replaced control orders, being beefed up. One of key
:42:25. > :42:29.players back at elite powers that the Government watchdog ones is that
:42:30. > :42:33.power to relocate suspects -- one of the key powers that the Government
:42:34. > :42:37.watchdog ones is the power to relocate suspects, but they haven't
:42:38. > :42:42.seen enough evidence for that. Isabel, people watching will say why
:42:43. > :42:45.can't the Government just take dramatic action to stop British-born
:42:46. > :42:50.jihadis coming back to this country if they have committed crimes abroad
:42:51. > :42:55.and won't quite appreciate all really sympathise with this idea and
:42:56. > :42:59.talk about international law and coalition negotiations, they just
:43:00. > :43:04.want to feel safe. This is a real challenge for the Lib Dems, because
:43:05. > :43:07.David Cameron gave that party back at elite conference on Friday, they
:43:08. > :43:13.are neither party blocking the tough measures. -- gave that conference.
:43:14. > :43:16.There will be talk about whether we should just be enforcing legislation
:43:17. > :43:20.more effectively rather than passing legislation that repeats what we
:43:21. > :43:23.already supposed to be doing, and whether we have the resources to be
:43:24. > :43:29.able to enforce this legislation. But it can quite easily be pitched
:43:30. > :43:30.as the Lib Dems being this nice, softy, Libertarian party who
:43:31. > :43:31.as the Lib Dems being this nice, softy, Libertarian party do not care
:43:32. > :43:33.about terror measures, so it softy, Libertarian party do not care
:43:34. > :43:38.about terror measures, will be difficult for them to make that case
:43:39. > :43:44.if that is how the debate goes. Let's move on to Douglas Carswell
:43:45. > :43:48.and his defection, James. Let's talk about Labour losing support the
:43:49. > :43:57.UKIP, because Nigel Farage likes nothing more than saying Labour MPs
:43:58. > :44:00.might be about to defect. I happen to think that it is not a problem,
:44:01. > :44:04.it is a strength for the Labour Party. It is the major card they
:44:05. > :44:08.have got to offer big business, they can say, you don't like a lot of
:44:09. > :44:11.what we are doing but if you stick with us, you won't have the
:44:12. > :44:15.uncertainty of a referendum and that is very popular in boardrooms across
:44:16. > :44:21.Britain. Is it popular with Labour MPs? There is a significant chunk of
:44:22. > :44:25.the party that would like to see a referendum, but the Douglas Carswell
:44:26. > :44:29.defection put into context what people have been talking about in
:44:30. > :44:32.terms of labour. Yes, they will lose some support, they could even lose
:44:33. > :44:37.some seeds, robber is obviously going to be a problem, but it is
:44:38. > :44:42.nothing like the scale of the problem the Conservatives have got
:44:43. > :44:46.-- they could lose some seats, Rotherham is a problem. Douglas
:44:47. > :44:51.Carswell's perfectly timed defection has opened this Pandora's box.
:44:52. > :44:56.Today, we have Tory malcontents saying they are going to put in
:44:57. > :45:01.their election addresses and will vote to leave Europe. Whatever he
:45:02. > :45:04.negotiates, you have Conservative Home making helpful suggestions,
:45:05. > :45:08.which of course are nothing of the sort, and you have Chris Kelly, an
:45:09. > :45:13.MP who many won't have heard of, but he is the ninth member of the 2010
:45:14. > :45:18.intake who has said he is standing down at the next election. He is not
:45:19. > :45:21.defecting to UKIP but has wished Douglas Carswell all the best on the
:45:22. > :45:25.way out the door. David Cameron is in a real pickle and the idea he can
:45:26. > :45:41.draw a line under Europe at the Party Conference by saying I will
:45:42. > :45:45.take Britain had if I don't get the right deal, Pat has gone and I don't
:45:46. > :45:48.see how they will put the genie back in the bottle. Isabel, it is a
:45:49. > :45:50.nightmare for David Cameron? Yes, as James says, the Labour Party are in
:45:51. > :45:54.a position of strength and the pressure has not increased just on
:45:55. > :45:59.David Cameron to increase the detail on his Europe plan, but he has to
:46:00. > :46:02.show he has a plan to reunite the right politics and I don't think he
:46:03. > :46:07.does. And the quieter he stays on that, the more agitated his MPs will
:46:08. > :46:11.become as they see UKIP threatening their constituencies and they see
:46:12. > :46:15.Douglas Carswell potentially winning the Clacton by-election. There will
:46:16. > :46:17.be more and more pressure on him to reconcile those members of his party
:46:18. > :46:22.he has lost. If you want to vote
:46:23. > :46:25.in local or general elections you have to be on the electoral
:46:26. > :46:28.register, but the way that register A new system is being brought in to
:46:29. > :46:34.cut fraud, but there are concerns it People talk about our country's
:46:35. > :46:39.long slog to build a democracy in To exercise that right we have
:46:40. > :46:46.constructed an electoral roll For many years that was done
:46:47. > :46:55.for us on a property basis with those eligible to vote registered
:46:56. > :46:57.by the rather antiquated idea After next year's general election,
:46:58. > :47:02.in a bid to make sure elections are absolutely protected from the risk
:47:03. > :47:05.of fraud, it is down to you. We only have one practical example
:47:06. > :47:14.of where individual registration was introduced, and that was in
:47:15. > :47:18.Northern Ireland just over ten years ago, and as a direct result 10.5%
:47:19. > :47:21.of people disappeared The political parties
:47:22. > :47:26.went ballistic. The Labour government of
:47:27. > :47:28.the day spent several years trying The impact
:47:29. > :47:32.in the one instance we have had in the UK where this has been
:47:33. > :47:36.introduced is quite significant and the critics of the present system
:47:37. > :47:39.have said if you did that before a general election it would be
:47:40. > :47:44.chaos. The risk of being accused of cooking
:47:45. > :47:47.the books are why total individual registration has been postponed
:47:48. > :47:51.until after the general election. Should those who want to vote get
:47:52. > :47:55.up, take responsibility If you can't be bothered, should you
:47:56. > :48:00.complain and does it matter if those I think it would be ideal if people
:48:01. > :48:07.took some responsibility The turnout is
:48:08. > :48:12.so low anyway that it would be good You want it to be
:48:13. > :48:18.representative and catch everyone. You probably want to have a
:48:19. > :48:20.quite strong communications message around it and say it and say it and
:48:21. > :48:23.say it again. It is a shame for the proportion of
:48:24. > :48:27.people who go out and make a vote. Getting as many people
:48:28. > :48:35.as possible out there to vote and It is youngsters at universities who
:48:36. > :48:41.used to be registered by the university that Brighton's Green
:48:42. > :48:44.MP, who secured a sizeable student In the past universities
:48:45. > :48:50.block registered students. Now students will have
:48:51. > :48:52.to register themselves. That may not sound like a big deal
:48:53. > :48:56.but when you're first coming to a new place away from home perhaps for
:48:57. > :48:59.the first time, overwhelmed by the many things happening in your first
:49:00. > :49:04.few weeks at university, bothering to work out how to register to vote
:49:05. > :49:06.probably isn't top Ensuring that is not an issue is
:49:07. > :49:10.the responsibility of local electoral officers
:49:11. > :49:13.and local authorities who hold the register, and they will be expected
:49:14. > :49:16.to publicise and drive through the There is a requirement on them
:49:17. > :49:22.to carry out certain processes. We will be monitoring them and
:49:23. > :49:25.if we do not think they are taking prompt action we will be
:49:26. > :49:28.following up with them and giving them support to do what they need to
:49:29. > :49:31.do, and ultimately we can take With turnouts ever lower and
:49:32. > :49:37.concerns of democratic deficit, turning that tide with this change
:49:38. > :49:44.may be harder than you'd think. We're joined from Westminster
:49:45. > :49:47.by Katie Ghose of the campaigning She is also a member of the Labour
:49:48. > :49:58.party. Is it not up to individuals to get
:49:59. > :50:04.themselves registered and if they cannot be bothered that is their
:50:05. > :50:07.loss? You are right. The big changes going from households to
:50:08. > :50:11.individuals. A lot of young people I have spoken to do not know they have
:50:12. > :50:15.to get themselves on the register and that is why we are so passionate
:50:16. > :50:25.about getting registration in schools. We want to see same-day
:50:26. > :50:29.registration so people can turn up to the polling station, register and
:50:30. > :50:32.vote in one day. We would also like to see other innovations they help
:50:33. > :50:38.people so when you are in touch with public services, applying for a
:50:39. > :50:43.passport, or a driving licence, or sorting out council tax, you can
:50:44. > :50:46.register to vote. It is individual responsibility, but let us see that
:50:47. > :50:52.as a something we can help each other to do? How worried are you
:50:53. > :50:56.about the potential for drop-off? We heard if it is going to move from
:50:57. > :51:04.households are individuals that many people will not do it. We are very
:51:05. > :51:08.worried because it is not logical. We are talking about millions of
:51:09. > :51:14.people who could lose their say. We want to see local authorities, they
:51:15. > :51:17.are doing a lot of work already, it is their responsibility, but
:51:18. > :51:22.political parties can play their part. This is about information and
:51:23. > :51:25.awareness and everybody having a role to play. If the Electoral
:51:26. > :51:33.Commission doing enough to publicise it? The Electoral Commission have a
:51:34. > :51:39.vital road because they can do their nationwide advertising -- vital
:51:40. > :51:42.role. There will be online registration which will help
:51:43. > :51:49.enormously. That could open the door to a further registration revelation
:51:50. > :51:54.to find modern ways of getting the ball on the register. The challenge
:51:55. > :52:01.after that has defined the challenge and motivation and trust in politics
:52:02. > :52:05.-- getting people on the register. Katie mentioned local authorities.
:52:06. > :52:09.Their budgets are being squeezed. Do they have the resources to focus on
:52:10. > :52:15.some sort of publicity campaign? Yes, the bottom line for me is we
:52:16. > :52:21.have to have a system with integrity. All of us want to feel
:52:22. > :52:28.that it was done properly and applied equally to everybody and
:52:29. > :52:31.there was no fraud. Are you worried? I am sympathetic to individual
:52:32. > :52:37.registration but there is an act issue was trying to get people on
:52:38. > :52:41.the register and in my constituency there are people not on the
:52:42. > :52:49.register. Local authorities have a role to play. Would the innovations
:52:50. > :52:53.be a good idea? Some are more problematic than others but some
:52:54. > :52:58.would work well. That is a wider oneness on all of us, and you are
:52:59. > :53:03.doing it on this programme, to remind people of their civic
:53:04. > :53:08.obligations. Are you worried about it? Is Labour worried about losing
:53:09. > :53:11.votes purely because many of their supporters will not be registered
:53:12. > :53:15.because of the transfer from household to individual? As a
:53:16. > :53:19.champion of democracy I am worried about it, the Labour Party is
:53:20. > :53:25.worried and the other parties will be worried. It is very often some of
:53:26. > :53:29.the poorest people, people living in inner cities, less likely to be
:53:30. > :53:33.registered, and the essence of a democracy is that everybody has
:53:34. > :53:37.their say. If you are getting millions of people not registering,
:53:38. > :53:42.and democracy is undermined and we think probably that may be up to 5
:53:43. > :53:46.million people will not be registered because if you do it by
:53:47. > :53:52.household it is the head of the household who takes the
:53:53. > :53:57.responsibility. It is old-fashioned. I remember houses were swimming with
:53:58. > :54:06.polling cards of people who no longer live there when I was a
:54:07. > :54:10.student. The risk of fraud or losing those people. Fraud is a big issue
:54:11. > :54:18.but we have to enthuse people to vote. The last election 65% of the
:54:19. > :54:23.population bothered to vote. 18-24 -year-olds, voting for the first
:54:24. > :54:28.time, the figure was 43%. Most young people did not bother to vote. We
:54:29. > :54:33.have made it easier to go and vote. We are going to make it easier to
:54:34. > :54:39.register by doing it online. You can take a horse to water but you cannot
:54:40. > :54:43.make it went? The challenge is to restore confidence in politics.
:54:44. > :54:50.Going out to vote means something and can make a difference. 78% of
:54:51. > :54:53.people previously turned up to vote for a general election.
:54:54. > :54:55.It's a summer charity craze that's filled
:54:56. > :54:59.Everyone seems to have got in on the act, and politicians have
:55:00. > :55:02.Here's a few doing the ice bucket challenge.
:55:03. > :55:05.To you all that challenged me, I do not think it is presidential for me
:55:06. > :55:09.so I am simply going to write you a cheque.
:55:10. > :55:20.That cheque is from me, I didn't want to ruin my hairstyle.
:55:21. > :56:09.I think some of these politicians enjoy at too much. -- enjoy it. I am
:56:10. > :56:15.on College Green getting wet, which is an occupational hazard in my
:56:16. > :56:20.business. MPs throwing stuff at themselves is a good way to start
:56:21. > :56:25.the term. I have three willing victims who have agreed to do it
:56:26. > :56:45.live on air. Who are you doing this for? Crazy Hats in Wellingborough. I
:56:46. > :56:58.nominate Jean-Claude Juncker. I am doing at forming Mellencamp so. --
:56:59. > :57:07.doing it for Macmillan Cancer. Motor neuron disease Association. I am
:57:08. > :57:17.nominating Jeremy Brown, William Hague, even wear and Calum Norton,
:57:18. > :57:35.the apprentice in my office. We have not made it easy for them. Take your
:57:36. > :57:45.pockets. -- buckets. Go for it! That is called Max. I thought it would
:57:46. > :57:53.be. Sometimes I love my job. Do we have to do this with you? You
:57:54. > :57:57.have a cup of water. Jeremy Brown is looking nervous.
:57:58. > :58:00.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:01. > :58:05.a) E-cigarettes, b) Powerful vacuum cleaners,
:58:06. > :58:10.c) Bananas over 30 centimetres in length, or d) Nigel Farage.
:58:11. > :58:29.Nigel Farage holding a banana. With a vacuum cleaner. It is vacuum
:58:30. > :58:35.cleaners. Yes. Why? It does not make it easy for itself. It is to save
:58:36. > :58:47.energy. Do you think there's going to be a rush of people buying them?
:58:48. > :58:51.It is also late. You cannot buy a Dyson for love nor money.
:58:52. > :58:57.The One o'clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:58. > :59:02.I'll be here at noon tomorrow.