:00:42. > :00:49.Good afternoon, folks. Welcome to our programme live from Edinburgh,
:00:50. > :00:53.where, with six days to go, both sides of the referendum campaign are
:00:54. > :00:57.throwing everything at it. A tearful Prime Minister, a Petchey Alex
:00:58. > :01:06.Salmond. A tree load of MPs coming up from England. What could possibly
:01:07. > :01:10.go wrong? -- a train full of MPs. The campaigners claim, on the yes
:01:11. > :01:14.side, but they are on the road to victory, but the polls do not give
:01:15. > :01:19.them the momentum they had at the weekend. The no campaign is in the
:01:20. > :01:23.lead and the reality is too close to call. Those campaigning to save the
:01:24. > :01:27.union have marshalled a bevy of big businesses to claim all sorts of bad
:01:28. > :01:33.things would follow a yes vote. Alex Salmond says it is scaremongering.
:01:34. > :01:38.And we have been to Glasgow to get under the skin of yes and no voters
:01:39. > :01:44.in the east end. If you win the election, we get independence, build
:01:45. > :01:48.a community centre as big as this Jobcentre so people have something
:01:49. > :01:53.to look forward to something to do. What we need to realise is this is
:01:54. > :01:58.not about political parties. This is about the future our country.
:01:59. > :02:02.Here in London, we will be looking at what next week's referendum means
:02:03. > :02:10.for the rest of the UK, which ever way Scots decide to folk. -- to
:02:11. > :02:13.vote. The leader of Plaid Cymru and the Conservative MP John Emery will
:02:14. > :02:22.join me live to discuss the future of the union.
:02:23. > :02:31.All of that in the next hour. With us for the duration, a yes vote from
:02:32. > :02:37.the Scotsman and Alan Cochrane, Scotland editor for the Daily
:02:38. > :02:40.Telegraph who will be voting no. Yesterday the yes campaign shot
:02:41. > :02:49.ahead for the first time. But this week sought to polls with the no
:02:50. > :02:58.campaign back in the lead, leading to claims that Alex Salmond has
:02:59. > :03:02.peaked too soon. It is possible. The big guns will have an impact on the
:03:03. > :03:05.low side. Scottish people are listening to the arguments. There
:03:06. > :03:09.are still many people not firmed up in their intention to vote. The
:03:10. > :03:14.sheer weight of the firepower that has been brought to bear since that
:03:15. > :03:18.poll came out is, I think, bound to have some sort of impact. If you're
:03:19. > :03:24.asking me for a prediction, I would say a narrow note next Thursday. A
:03:25. > :03:29.narrow no? But I do think it is still to play for and it depends how
:03:30. > :03:32.the campaign goes, and the no campaign have made some errors over
:03:33. > :03:35.the last year and if they make another it could go the other way.
:03:36. > :03:40.It is within the margin of error. It is very close. I suppose the one
:03:41. > :03:44.thing on the yes side that would be a bit disappointing is that what
:03:45. > :03:50.Madame is everything in a referendum in particular. Undecideds might
:03:51. > :03:53.think, the country folk are going one way, I will join them, I have
:03:54. > :03:59.made up my mind. Alex Salmond has not yet got that momentum. It looked
:04:00. > :04:05.like he was going to get at last we get. I certainly hope that he peaked
:04:06. > :04:09.too early. The difference in his demeanour between Sunday and Monday,
:04:10. > :04:15.and the last couple of days, has been remarkable. As well as the big
:04:16. > :04:18.guns being thrown at them, quite rightly, it is about time, there is
:04:19. > :04:23.something else going on that maybe we are not being let in on. There is
:04:24. > :04:26.a change in the mood in the nationalist camp. There is an
:04:27. > :04:29.incredible amount of churn in these polls that makes me suspicious. If
:04:30. > :04:34.you look at the difference between the YouGov poll at the weekend and
:04:35. > :04:39.today, women have gone from being more favourable to yes two against
:04:40. > :04:43.it again. Young people, under 25, big support for yes at the weekend
:04:44. > :04:51.but now they are quite a start Stan shall no vote. That makes me very
:04:52. > :04:58.suspicious about these polls. -- a substantial no vote. They are
:04:59. > :05:01.dealing with a bigger turnout than we have usually seen. People are
:05:02. > :05:06.registering to vote in unprecedented numbers. There is no way of telling
:05:07. > :05:09.what that means. The yes camp hopes that all of those people who do not
:05:10. > :05:12.normally vote will be leaning towards the yes side, but I do not
:05:13. > :05:19.think it is that predictable. They could go either way. It does put the
:05:20. > :05:28.polls in the difficult position. The don't knows are down to four present
:05:29. > :05:32.in the latest poll. I am asked on this day are still out there! How
:05:33. > :05:42.much information do they need? This has been going on for years. Make up
:05:43. > :05:46.your minds! Whatever poll you look at, they are all within a
:05:47. > :05:51.statistical margin of error. The result could go either way. With
:05:52. > :05:54.only six days to go the outcome of the most important constitutional
:05:55. > :05:59.decision in the Union's 300-year-old history is on a knife edge. This was
:06:00. > :06:04.not always the case. It was one opinion poll last weekend
:06:05. > :06:08.that really set this contest alike, with YouGov putting the yes campaign
:06:09. > :06:11.ahead for the first time. There are plenty of different surveys out
:06:12. > :06:16.there, all telling a slightly different stories. Luckily for us,
:06:17. > :06:22.John Curtis has put together a poll of polls that shows just how tight
:06:23. > :06:26.this race has become. Based on the average of six keep owls, if we look
:06:27. > :06:31.back to the end of last year, public opinion in Scotland looked settled
:06:32. > :06:34.and the no campaign had a commanding lead.
:06:35. > :06:41.At one point at the end of last year, 63% backed no and only 37%
:06:42. > :06:46.voted eight -- supported a yes vote. Moving up to this week, you can see
:06:47. > :06:53.a clear trend emerging as the no lead gets narrower. The recent polls
:06:54. > :06:58.have it hanging in the balance. The most recent up-to-date figures put
:06:59. > :07:02.yes on 48 armed no on 52, which in polling terms close to call. Because
:07:03. > :07:06.there is often a pot with polling, most recent headlines have been
:07:07. > :07:09.generated by survey results which excluded people who said they did
:07:10. > :07:15.not know if Scotland should be independent. This final week of the
:07:16. > :07:19.campaign could prove decisive, if it can persuade those all-important
:07:20. > :07:23.undecided voters. It'll all come too late to influence those who have
:07:24. > :07:27.already voted, because a record number, almost 20% of registered
:07:28. > :07:39.voters, asked to do so I vote and may have already cast their ballot.
:07:40. > :07:44.We are joined now by Joe Twyman, who has travelled up with us. How
:07:45. > :07:49.seriously should we take these polls? They are having a huge effect
:07:50. > :07:56.on the campaign. It was because of a poll that TM queues was cancelled
:07:57. > :08:02.and they all came north. -- 's Prime Minister's Questions. Why are they
:08:03. > :08:08.all over the place? What has happened, if you are looking at the
:08:09. > :08:13.long-term trends, within different companies, you see that the story is
:08:14. > :08:18.pretty consistent. That is that the no campaign was ahead for some time
:08:19. > :08:23.and then around about the start of August, things started to change
:08:24. > :08:28.with the debates. Since then there has been a decline in support for
:08:29. > :08:33.know and growth in support for yes. Recently we have seen a reaction to
:08:34. > :08:39.that and, roll out the cliche, it is too close to call. Your company had
:08:40. > :08:46.the yes campaign, 53-47 at the weekend, now it is no, 52-48. That
:08:47. > :08:51.could be explained in a statistical margin of error. That is the normal
:08:52. > :08:57.probability and no one can abolish it. It actually could still be that
:08:58. > :09:05.the yes campaign is in head? -- head? It is all to play for and we
:09:06. > :09:12.could see yes victory or no victory next week. We just don't know. When
:09:13. > :09:19.is the next poll coming. On the eve of poll prediction on Wednesday. Are
:09:20. > :09:22.you confident that you are using the right polling techniques? Unlike
:09:23. > :09:27.general elections, where you have got a statistical series and people
:09:28. > :09:33.you can go back to how you -- who you know have voted before, you have
:09:34. > :09:37.nothing to compare it against. We have historical data on political
:09:38. > :09:40.attitudes. Whether it was how they voted in the Holyrood election or
:09:41. > :09:44.the European elections, who they politically identify with. This goes
:09:45. > :09:46.into the mix to compare it against. We have historical data on political
:09:47. > :09:48.attitudes. Whether it was how they voted in the Holyrood election or
:09:49. > :09:50.the European elections, who they politically identify with. This goes
:09:51. > :09:52.into the mix too alarmist to, hopefully, accurately model the
:09:53. > :09:58.outcome on Thursday. -- goes into the mix to allow us to. Alex Salmond
:09:59. > :10:02.is as -- is ahead in a lot of major demographics but in the younger of
:10:03. > :10:08.the young people and the over 60s, he is trailing. That is right. It is
:10:09. > :10:11.an area where he needs to make inroads, particularly among older
:10:12. > :10:16.people. I crossed the duration of the campaign, they have staunchly
:10:17. > :10:20.been positioning themselves in favour of no. They make up a large
:10:21. > :10:24.proportion of the electorate and are most likely to vote. People are
:10:25. > :10:29.talking about a high possible turnout for this referendum. "
:10:30. > :10:37.back, 93% turned out, which is astonishingly high. -- Quebec. It
:10:38. > :10:41.makes the over 60s particularly important. It is going to be over
:10:42. > :10:48.80% turnout, isn't it? I would expect so, probably well over. I do
:10:49. > :10:52.not know if it will help either side. I think there is a hope that
:10:53. > :11:03.some of the disenfranchised will vote on the yes side, and they will
:11:04. > :11:08.vote because they do not like the current Westminster representation.
:11:09. > :11:12.If they turn out there is a feeling they will be likely to vote for
:11:13. > :11:15.change rather than the status quo. A few anecdotal reports have found
:11:16. > :11:20.that, that a lot of the people who do not normally vote at all because
:11:21. > :11:24.they hate politics or politicians, registered this vote time -- have
:11:25. > :11:34.registered to vote this time and are leaning towards yes. I heard a taxi
:11:35. > :11:38.driver saying that, that he had not voted from the election. The poll
:11:39. > :11:44.that came out a couple of days ago was the same as it had been a month
:11:45. > :11:48.ago. It is the YouGov poll jumping all over the place. And the TNS
:11:49. > :11:54.poll, which is a face-to-face survey. They are both showing the
:11:55. > :12:00.same trend, the decline. Is there not also the phenomenon, the shy
:12:01. > :12:05.Tory phenomenon, that people do not want to admit they are voting no
:12:06. > :12:07.because it is seen as unpatriotic. Yes, and this is something you have
:12:08. > :12:11.to take account of. You have to Yes, and this is something you have
:12:12. > :12:15.model your analysis to make sure you are doing all you can to tease
:12:16. > :12:19.model your analysis to make sure you that information from people. If it
:12:20. > :12:22.was easy, anyone could do it. These days, almost anyone can!
:12:23. > :12:27.was easy, anyone could do it. These us. With the polls as tight as ebony
:12:28. > :12:30.is Scrooge, what is the key battle ground? Most Scots live in cities or
:12:31. > :12:38.a large towns. Dundee is thought to be sewn up with a Yesil, Edinburgh
:12:39. > :12:43.Strong for a no vote. Glasgow is emerging as a key battle ground. For
:12:44. > :12:46.years a Labour Party fiefdom, but the yes campaign has been making
:12:47. > :12:51.inroads and Labour has been struggling to hold on to what was
:12:52. > :12:58.once it's party faithful. We said Adam out onto its streets.
:12:59. > :13:02.The referendum battle is in full swing in the East End of Glasgow,
:13:03. > :13:09.but you know what they say, an army marches on its stomach. I have just
:13:10. > :13:12.bought one of these - Scotch pie. The problem is that people eat too
:13:13. > :13:16.many of these and this area has become infamous as having one of the
:13:17. > :13:19.lowest life expectancy is anywhere in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty,
:13:20. > :13:28.though! in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty,
:13:29. > :13:32.place where she grew up has in the UK. -- expectancies. Tasty,
:13:33. > :13:36.neglected and it is time for a change. This is the biggest building
:13:37. > :13:41.in my street. It is the Jobcentre. The biggest building in this street
:13:42. > :13:47.is the Jobcentre. The pub is shot. The Jobcentre is huge. , and have a
:13:48. > :13:55.look at how big this Jobcentre is. That is how big it is. That is big
:13:56. > :13:59.for a Jobcentre. If we get independence, build a community
:14:00. > :14:03.centre as big so we have something to look forward to something to do,
:14:04. > :14:08.not just somewhere to get penalised if you do not fill in our forum or
:14:09. > :14:12.don't turn up for a interview. -- fill in a form. The polls suggest
:14:13. > :14:20.more and more working class Labour supporters are going to vote yes. As
:14:21. > :14:26.I found out in the tattoo parlour! We have had interest with ten people
:14:27. > :14:36.already going for a yes tattoo. And how many have gone for the no?
:14:37. > :14:41.None. Needles the no campaign! I found the yes campaign knocking on
:14:42. > :14:46.doors with a local Labour councillor. We need to take the
:14:47. > :14:51.political parties out. It is a referendum to decide, do we stay or
:14:52. > :14:57.do we break up? Nevertheless, why do people think that Labour didn't do
:14:58. > :15:01.very much for them? I mean, they were 13 years in power. I don't
:15:02. > :15:10.understand it. There has been a lot of input. And what about the fact
:15:11. > :15:17.that nobody wants Better Together tattooed on them? If you are yes,
:15:18. > :15:22.you do not want to change. If you do not want to change it is harder to
:15:23. > :15:26.show what you support. So you would not get a no tattoo in the last
:15:27. > :15:32.week? If it would make the difference, I would! And they just
:15:33. > :15:35.might among the mums and dads at football training. It turns out a
:15:36. > :15:40.lot of them still have not made up their mind.
:15:41. > :15:45.A lot of people are still undecided, one day it could be yes, then it
:15:46. > :15:49.could change. When do you think people will
:15:50. > :15:54.decide? On the day. I think there will be a
:15:55. > :15:59.lot of changed minds on the day. These last few days leading up to
:16:00. > :16:03.Thursday will be crucial. The final whistle hasn't blown.
:16:04. > :16:10.Certainly not. To borrow a phrase, there is still plenty to play for
:16:11. > :16:14.with Glasgow's East Enders. We are joined now by the man in
:16:15. > :16:19.charge of the Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling.
:16:20. > :16:24.When I interviewed Jim Murphy, your colleague, he described your running
:16:25. > :16:32.of the campaign as brilliant. A campaign that has gone from a 22
:16:33. > :16:35.points lead, to nip and tuck. And if you had held onto that 22 points
:16:36. > :16:40.lead? I said a year ago it would go down
:16:41. > :16:44.to the wire. It is not surprising. The biggest
:16:45. > :16:49.single position most of us will ever take. If we decide to leave, there
:16:50. > :16:56.is no going back. It is not surprising people are moving around.
:16:57. > :17:01.Did you know that the lead but go from 22 points, down to zero, at
:17:02. > :17:07.which nothing you can do about it? I did say a year ago that it would
:17:08. > :17:12.narrow, and it is not surprising. I said it would go down.
:17:13. > :17:19.Surely, if you knew, your campaign would stop that from happening?
:17:20. > :17:23.The arguments in this campaign, the emotional and economic arguments,
:17:24. > :17:26.have been around the nearly three years.
:17:27. > :17:31.What I do think is, in the last week, that poll at the weekend has
:17:32. > :17:36.galvanised people who realise how high the stakes are.
:17:37. > :17:42.This week, it could become clearer that we can have the change that we
:17:43. > :17:47.want within the UK, we can do it better, faster and more secure
:17:48. > :17:51.without the risks. Also, people are beginning to
:17:52. > :17:57.concentrate on what the risks are in terms of the prices we pay in shops,
:17:58. > :18:05.jobs, security, payment of pensions, NHS. Which is why the we should win.
:18:06. > :18:09.If you knew this narrowing was going to take place, why did you wait
:18:10. > :18:16.until the yes campaign had overtaken you in one poll, with less than two
:18:17. > :18:18.weeks to go, before you rolled out this home rule blueprint?
:18:19. > :18:23.You should have rolled it out long before?
:18:24. > :18:27.People are less interested in the process is in this campaign.
:18:28. > :18:31.You going to wait until they cast their vote?
:18:32. > :18:35.The fact that the non-nationalist parties were promising change, and
:18:36. > :18:41.the fact we can do it in a better way within the security of the UK,
:18:42. > :18:48.faster because we will have the years of wrangling gone, and more
:18:49. > :18:52.secure. These are things concentrating our minds.
:18:53. > :18:56.What I am asking is, why did you wait so long?
:18:57. > :19:02.You can only conclude it was panic. I don't agree with you.
:19:03. > :19:08.Why did you wait? What is more important, what we are voted on next
:19:09. > :19:13.week, and the majority of people in Scotland do want that change within
:19:14. > :19:16.the UK, they do not want the risks of independence. The other
:19:17. > :19:21.interesting thing, if you listen to Alex Salmond who is flying around in
:19:22. > :19:27.a helicopter, while most people on the ground are bothered about the
:19:28. > :19:32.announcements of headquarters moving, supermarkets saying we would
:19:33. > :19:36.have to pay more, those other things which will concentrate our minds as
:19:37. > :19:41.we put our cross on the ballot. The biggest decision any of us will
:19:42. > :19:45.take. We have said it several times. You
:19:46. > :19:51.have been critical of the yes campaign further lack of clarity.
:19:52. > :19:59.Now you have this home rule blueprint, we need clarity. Let me
:20:00. > :20:04.ask you. How much income tax will be devolved to Scotland?
:20:05. > :20:14.Under our proposals at the moment... Yes, between 40% and 50%.
:20:15. > :20:18.What is important is each political party has put forward proposals in
:20:19. > :20:22.the same place. Here we are less than a week to go.
:20:23. > :20:30.I don't know what currency we will be using in a week.
:20:31. > :20:36.These are the questions. I am interviewing the no campaign. Will
:20:37. > :20:39.the Scottish Parliament have control over oil revenues?
:20:40. > :20:45.No, none of the political parties are doing that. The advantages we
:20:46. > :20:46.have at the moment, we have control over health and education,
:20:47. > :20:52.transport. It is better that the payment of
:20:53. > :20:59.pensions should be a UK business ability. With a rising ageing
:21:00. > :21:04.population, we take that burden across 63 million people, not 5
:21:05. > :21:08.million. You can contribute at a Scottish and UK level.
:21:09. > :21:11.The powers we see coming to the Scottish Parliament will mean we
:21:12. > :21:18.will have more powers than many federal governments that people look
:21:19. > :21:23.at. I understand. Is it only income tax?
:21:24. > :21:28.We don't know how much? As I said, the difference between
:21:29. > :21:35.the parties is about 10%. We know with the yes campaign we get
:21:36. > :21:41.100%, that is exact. That is clarity. Equally, you know
:21:42. > :21:49.you will lose the ?1200 extra a year per head of population in Scotland.
:21:50. > :21:53.You would have a country that is dependent on 15% of its revenues
:21:54. > :21:59.from oil, the prices of which are volatile. Ian Wood, an expert, has
:22:00. > :22:06.made the point in 20 years the production will have run down. For
:22:07. > :22:11.that one source of revenue, it is putting jobs, so much at risk. It is
:22:12. > :22:15.not surprising that people are saying no, thanks.
:22:16. > :22:18.Has Ed Balls signed off on this demolition of income tax?
:22:19. > :22:23.The Labour Party has agreed an event we have put forward. I am part of
:22:24. > :22:27.the Labour Party. Where does Ed Balls agree on the
:22:28. > :22:33.record? I understand what you are trying to
:22:34. > :22:37.do. The Labour Party, the Liberal party and the Conservative Party
:22:38. > :22:42.have put forward proposals. We have a procedure which means by January
:22:43. > :22:46.next year we will have registration, as opposed to years of wrangling if
:22:47. > :22:51.we leave the UK. I know Europe pretty well. They
:22:52. > :22:57.don't decide anything quickly. That uncertainty would cost jobs and make
:22:58. > :23:03.Scotland even more insecure. You know Ed Balls. One of his great
:23:04. > :23:07.concerns is tax competition. If you have separate regimes in London and
:23:08. > :23:13.Edinburgh setting different taxes, there will be a race to the bottom.
:23:14. > :23:17.That is why I am asking this legitimate question.
:23:18. > :23:23.I am saying, yes, you are right about tax condition. The only tax
:23:24. > :23:28.proposal the Nationalists are making is to reduce corporation tax to 3p
:23:29. > :23:39.less than that fixed by the UK. That is a race to the bottom it is not a
:23:40. > :23:43.distributive policy. The only people getting a tax break our large
:23:44. > :23:48.corporations. Is it fair you can promise in the
:23:49. > :23:52.dying days of a campaign further major constitutional change for
:23:53. > :23:56.Scotland, and yet not consult the rest of the UK and find out what
:23:57. > :24:02.they think about this and what it should mean to them?
:24:03. > :24:07.These proposals were made some months ago. You are right that
:24:08. > :24:12.earlier this week Carwyn Jones, the First Minister of Wales, said he
:24:13. > :24:16.wanted greater powers in Wales. And England? There is a big argument
:24:17. > :24:21.about transferring particularly economic powers to the English
:24:22. > :24:25.cities outside London. Why can't people in England have the
:24:26. > :24:31.same powers to determine their education and health and income tax
:24:32. > :24:34.as you are about to give the Scots? As we know, the constitutional
:24:35. > :24:39.argument in Scotland has been raging for 40 years and has not been
:24:40. > :24:43.replicated south of the border. It could be now.
:24:44. > :24:49.None of us should be afraid of changing the way things are run.
:24:50. > :24:54.However... Let me ask you, are you saying that Scotland can have all
:24:55. > :24:59.this extra tax-raising power within the UK, and other powers moved as
:25:00. > :25:04.well. And yet, there will still be the same number of MPs from Scotland
:25:05. > :25:08.in Westminster, and you won't answer the West Lothian Scotland, Scottish
:25:09. > :25:16.MPs will still be able to vote on English only matters.
:25:17. > :25:19.Seven governments -- successive governments have been struggling to
:25:20. > :25:26.that question. That is a constitutional debate.
:25:27. > :25:30.What I am concentrating on in the next six days is trying to persuade
:25:31. > :25:36.a majority of my fellow country people that our best future is
:25:37. > :25:45.secured by staying in the UK. Isn't the harsh truth of your
:25:46. > :25:47.position in this historically Labour country, a symbolic failure of the
:25:48. > :25:56.Labour Party? It is not. You have presided over a
:25:57. > :25:59.corrupt 1-party fiefdom, riven by tribal warfare, half of you don't
:26:00. > :26:04.speak to the other, half do not speak to you. Doug Alexander does
:26:05. > :26:11.not speak to Gordon Brown. This is rubbish. No political party
:26:12. > :26:18.in Scotland or anywhere else in the UK can take any group of people...
:26:19. > :26:22.There is tribal warfare. You are in decline!
:26:23. > :26:26.This is nonsense. People said that before the local elections in
:26:27. > :26:34.Glasgow in 2012. Guess what, we want with a majority.
:26:35. > :26:36.Glasgow, this Labour city, is a battle ground.
:26:37. > :26:42.Every part of Scotland is a battle ground. Every part of Scotland. You
:26:43. > :26:49.cannot make those Sumption is, well you know it, I can see you laughing.
:26:50. > :26:54.This is something that is dividing people. Passionate arguments. The
:26:55. > :27:01.decision we have to make, not just for our generation.
:27:02. > :27:05.Forever. Have you ever mentioned in this campaign to defend the union
:27:06. > :27:09.that Scotland belongs to the UK and is the fastest-growing economy in
:27:10. > :27:14.the western world? Our economy is recovering. I have
:27:15. > :27:23.mentioned that. As a former Chancellor, I am asked regularly.
:27:24. > :27:28.The economy is growing. I hope this recovery is well founded. There are
:27:29. > :27:31.big questions to be asked, especially as in Europe it is
:27:32. > :27:36.stagnating. I have my differences with the present Government. The
:27:37. > :27:41.bigger question is, how do we make sure it is a fair recovery so
:27:42. > :27:46.everyone feels the benefit, not just some. It is an argument in Scotland
:27:47. > :27:53.and the UK. I do differ from some people. But
:27:54. > :27:58.the key thing is, for Scotland, are we going to be better off breaking
:27:59. > :28:03.away with all of those uncertainties? Or have the best of
:28:04. > :28:06.both worlds, a strong Scottish Government, a strong economy, I
:28:07. > :28:11.don't want to see all those companies being forced out of
:28:12. > :28:15.Scotland because we will rue the day once you lose headquarters and lose
:28:16. > :28:20.decision making. What do you make of that?
:28:21. > :28:24.I think the questions you were asking about the proposed new
:28:25. > :28:28.devolution settlement are pertinent. Alistair knows and he won't be able
:28:29. > :28:33.to say it now, he knows perfectly well we could have had a question
:28:34. > :28:37.about extending and improved devolution on the ballot paper back
:28:38. > :28:43.in 2012. Alex Salmond is a realistic politician and has always known.
:28:44. > :28:48.The first question is, are we staying in the UK?
:28:49. > :28:55.No, it isn't the first question. No, it isn't. You know there are plenty
:28:56. > :28:59.of people in Scotland who will only vote for a continuing UK if it is
:29:00. > :29:03.going to be a very different UK. There are all sorts of problems the
:29:04. > :29:10.Westminster democracy need addressing.
:29:11. > :29:13.As someone who does not believe in any more devolution, they are going
:29:14. > :29:18.to do it. The Prime Minister said it.
:29:19. > :29:22.The Prime Minister wants this. I am astonished, but he wants different
:29:23. > :29:26.tax rates throughout the whole of the UK. I am afraid they are going
:29:27. > :29:30.to do it. The final point?
:29:31. > :29:34.Coming back to Joyce. I know we are on different sides.
:29:35. > :29:39.If you take Alex Salmond and his claim at face value that he wanted a
:29:40. > :29:43.currency union, it would mean Scottish policies would be decided
:29:44. > :29:49.in the very country you have broken away from. That is nonsense. That is
:29:50. > :29:55.why we will win. Back to London.
:29:56. > :29:59.For many of you watching in England, Wales or Northern Ireland, you may
:30:00. > :30:04.be thinking what it has got to do with you? Rather a lot because
:30:05. > :30:08.whichever way Scotland boats, the country will get new powers. Which
:30:09. > :30:09.has led to calls for more powers to be handed to the other countries
:30:10. > :30:23.that make up Welcome to my guests. Leanne Wood,
:30:24. > :30:27.you have been campaigning in Scotland as the polls have narrowed.
:30:28. > :30:29.As much as you might want independent for Wales you except
:30:30. > :30:37.there is not the same appetite there as there is in Scotland? We are on
:30:38. > :30:40.very different journeys and we are very different countries. Scotland
:30:41. > :30:48.started out with much more devolution in 1997 than we did in
:30:49. > :30:53.Wales. The criminal justice system was devolved, as was the education
:30:54. > :30:57.service. I am confident we are on the same journey, but at different
:30:58. > :31:02.places. Yes, I have been up in Scotland. One of the most exciting
:31:03. > :31:06.things about the campaign there is the grassroots nature of the
:31:07. > :31:10.campaign, and the fact that we have talked as politicians for such a
:31:11. > :31:16.long time about the problem of apathy and the lack of engagement
:31:17. > :31:19.amongst citizens in politics when, in Scotland, there is very little
:31:20. > :31:25.apathy that I could see and Argosy seems to have been reborn. So,
:31:26. > :31:28.whatever the outcome of the results on 18th September, something very
:31:29. > :31:31.special has happened there and I think it would be great if that
:31:32. > :31:36.could continue and could be replicated here in Wales as well.
:31:37. > :31:42.John Redwood, you want a separate English Parliament. How many of your
:31:43. > :31:43.Conservative colleagues agree? The overwhelming majority of
:31:44. > :31:48.Conservative parliamentarians and membership want to solve the English
:31:49. > :31:51.problem. If Scotland is going to have a lot more powers, and we must
:31:52. > :31:55.honour the pledge, though I hope they stay with us, England needs the
:31:56. > :31:59.same powers. We need an English Parliament at Westminster and we
:32:00. > :32:03.should do it in an economical way. I am happy to go on being an English
:32:04. > :32:07.MP as well as a union MP, as I am at the moment. We need to make our own
:32:08. > :32:11.decisions that parallel the decisions the Scottish parliament is
:32:12. > :32:21.making in Scotland. That is the one thing where the SNP and I agree. How
:32:22. > :32:24.would it work in practice? Would use it for a limited number of days each
:32:25. > :32:27.week, or would it be an entirely separate parliament in addition to
:32:28. > :32:28.Westminster? It would be the English members of the Westminster
:32:29. > :32:32.Parliament sitting as the parliament. There would be days when
:32:33. > :32:36.it was English business, so colleagues from other parts of the
:32:37. > :32:39.union need not attend. We would do all the other things in England that
:32:40. > :32:43.the Scottish Parliament does in Scotland. I am fed up with this
:32:44. > :32:51.lopsided devolution, this unfettered evolution. Scotland gets first-class
:32:52. > :32:54.devolution, Wales get second-class and England gets nothing. If Wales
:32:55. > :32:59.was the same of us, they should have it, and we would have commonality
:33:00. > :33:02.and we could discuss and decide in our own assemblies and parliaments
:33:03. > :33:07.all those things that are devolved. It comes back to whether people want
:33:08. > :33:11.it, Leanne Wood. Only around one in ten people agree in Wales that there
:33:12. > :33:15.should be independence. When it comes to more powers for the Welsh
:33:16. > :33:21.Assembly, only around 40% of people wanted that in a poll earlier this
:33:22. > :33:26.year. Whether it is apathy or satisfaction, people are happy with
:33:27. > :33:29.the status quo. At the moment you are right, but things can change
:33:30. > :33:34.ferry quickly. Can I just agree with the point that was just made by John
:33:35. > :33:38.Redwood - England does need to decide what it needs to do now and
:33:39. > :33:42.should have self-determination, but the best way of achieving that is if
:33:43. > :33:50.Scotland votes yes. What we know from previous experiences, back in
:33:51. > :33:54.1999 Margaret thatcher said that if Scotland voted no in that
:33:55. > :33:58.referendum, additional powers would be granted. -- Margaret Thatcher.
:33:59. > :34:01.The only way Scotland will get more powers and the way England will have
:34:02. > :34:08.this debate and Wales will get the settlement we need is to -- if
:34:09. > :34:14.Scotland votes yes on 18th September. John Woodward, are you a
:34:15. > :34:19.fan of the plan for federalism for the UK that Nick Clegg has
:34:20. > :34:22.suggested? We have heard Alistair Darling saying more economic powers
:34:23. > :34:28.should be transferred to cities in England. I do not see a groundswell
:34:29. > :34:32.of opinion from the public saying, let's have more bureaucracy. They
:34:33. > :34:35.are insulting England. England is a great country, as Scotland is. I
:34:36. > :34:41.find now that most English people want there to be fairness and
:34:42. > :34:47.justice. We accept there is going to be more home-rule or self-government
:34:48. > :34:50.in Scotland. We want the same for ourselves. It may be that being rich
:34:51. > :34:59.parliament will want to delegate more powers to the cities, though I
:35:00. > :35:06.note that there may be a referendum about mayors. -- the English
:35:07. > :35:09.Parliament will want to delegate. The fundamental issues about how
:35:10. > :35:12.high income tax is going to be will not be settled separately in
:35:13. > :35:15.Manchester and Bradford, it will be settled by the Jewish Parliament. It
:35:16. > :35:23.could not be settled by the Parliament of the union with
:35:24. > :35:29.Scottish MPs voting on tax in England but not in Scotland. Was
:35:30. > :35:33.there a panic in your mind that there was too much offered to
:35:34. > :35:38.Scotland in the closing days of the campaign? I accept Allah stalag --
:35:39. > :35:42.Alistair Darling's point about offering more devolution and then
:35:43. > :35:47.they accelerated timetable. I am speaking in a way for my party,
:35:48. > :35:50.because my party fought the last election saying that in the United
:35:51. > :35:53.Kingdom Parliament, in future, there are needed to be English votes for
:35:54. > :35:58.English aces. In other words, there needs to be an English government at
:35:59. > :36:02.Westminster for all those things Scotland has devolved power over.
:36:03. > :36:07.What powers were July to see divorced to Wales if, for instance,
:36:08. > :36:12.you were in power and the Prime Minister rang you up and he said,
:36:13. > :36:19.this is the shopping list we would like. What would it be? There have
:36:20. > :36:24.been numerous commissions, the latest being the Subcommission which
:36:25. > :36:34.has proposed powers for Wales for criminal Justice, energy, tax
:36:35. > :36:40.sharing. -- the Silk Commission. . We need to move on the
:36:41. > :36:43.recommendations without cherry picking or the lock step which would
:36:44. > :36:46.reduce tax powers. Then we need to move towards a system of
:36:47. > :36:49.self-government. The days of devolution are over and there is a
:36:50. > :36:54.consensus in Wales that the settlement that we have is not fit
:36:55. > :36:57.for purpose and it is up to people to decide what powers they want to
:36:58. > :37:03.hold in Wales and what powers they want to share with others as we move
:37:04. > :37:06.on our journey towards the same situation as Scotland is embarking
:37:07. > :37:11.upon next week, when they hold soft retreat for one day and decide
:37:12. > :37:16.whether they get to keep it. -- when they hold sovereignty. What are you
:37:17. > :37:22.going to do on 19th September, one we know the result of the
:37:23. > :37:27.referendum. Whichever way it goes, what will you do with your campaign?
:37:28. > :37:33.I will continue to be a voice for England. If Better Together wins, I
:37:34. > :37:37.will press on the government a solution which is not just about
:37:38. > :37:40.Scotland but also about England and if Wales and Northern Ireland wish,
:37:41. > :37:48.for them as well. It would be neat to have the same powers for each
:37:49. > :37:52.part of United Kingdom. It should be a United Kingdom Bill. There needs
:37:53. > :37:55.to be enough home-rule in every part of the United Kingdom to satisfy
:37:56. > :38:06.local opinion and that might turn out to be a similar amount in each
:38:07. > :38:09.part of the United Kingdom. Why we have been on air we have
:38:10. > :38:20.learned that the Reverend Ian Paisley has died at the age of 88.
:38:21. > :38:26.Ian Paisley was one of the huge historic figures of Northern Ireland
:38:27. > :38:31.at the heart of the troubles in the late 60s. His demonstrations
:38:32. > :38:34.gathered pace. He was one of the leading Protestant firebrand against
:38:35. > :38:42.any kind of arrangement with the Catholic population. " No surrender"
:38:43. > :38:47.was his famous call. He was the figure that you had to take into
:38:48. > :38:50.account in Belfast. He made life miserable for moderate Protestant
:38:51. > :38:54.leaders who were trying to do a deal. Who would have thought that
:38:55. > :39:00.after that history and at that time, and he got blamed for many of the
:39:01. > :39:05.things that happened - the housing policy and the riots and
:39:06. > :39:09.demonstrations, and the IRA uprising, but in the end as the
:39:10. > :39:13.peace process took place, it was the Reverend Ian Paisley who sat down
:39:14. > :39:18.with the IRA's Martin McGuinness to help form a new government. None of
:39:19. > :39:24.us in Belfast at the time ever saw that coming. Indeed, Martin
:39:25. > :39:29.McGuinness and Ian Paisley were so close that once did that people
:39:30. > :39:33.called them the Chuckle Brothers. A defensive but major figure in
:39:34. > :39:36.Northern Irish history has died today, the Reverend Ian Paisley, at
:39:37. > :39:42.the age of 88. We have got a new opinion poll at
:39:43. > :39:47.the referendum here in Scotland from Guardian ICM. It has the no vote on
:39:48. > :39:58.51 and a yes vote on 49. Nip and tuck, very much the same. The YouGov
:39:59. > :40:06.poll, nobody -- know is ahead for a third time this week but with a
:40:07. > :40:15.statistical significance only. What I wanted to talk about, if it is a
:40:16. > :40:19.no vote on the Westminster parties live up to their promise, surely it
:40:20. > :40:23.is inconceivable you could have this matter further change in Scotland
:40:24. > :40:28.without England, Wales, and Northern Ireland wanting their constitutions
:40:29. > :40:33.change? This is the issue about the mishandling of this whole debate
:40:34. > :40:41.about the campaign. The loss of the lead is down to it. London has not
:40:42. > :40:47.paid enough attention to the debate or to the strength and range of it.
:40:48. > :40:54.If there was going to become perhaps of reform of the kind that Gordon
:40:55. > :40:58.Brown was talking about whilst using the word federalism, they would have
:40:59. > :41:07.had to be on the case as soon as they saw the victory and the SNP
:41:08. > :41:14.saying, we are going to look to a constitutional convention for the UK
:41:15. > :41:19.and serious talk about the devolution. Have they done a? No.
:41:20. > :41:25.The point is to think to themselves, why have they not done it? What is
:41:26. > :41:37.the source of that complacency, that deafness, the lack of interest until
:41:38. > :41:48.they saw the YouGov poll last week" Mike -- the YouGov poll last week.
:41:49. > :41:53.There has to be a UK element to any constitutional change. That is why
:41:54. > :41:58.there will have to be some sort of UK constitution. It is not about
:41:59. > :42:03.kicking into touch by making it work. If it is done like the last
:42:04. > :42:07.lot in 1999, which was Scotland only, it did not work because it
:42:08. > :42:14.brought up the SNP upsurge. What needs to happen is for the whole of
:42:15. > :42:17.the UK to devolve. The Welsh one more, the Irish would probably take
:42:18. > :42:24.more as well. That have a UK solution.
:42:25. > :42:27.Gordon Brown's home-rule blueprint was presented by him as without
:42:28. > :42:32.consequences for Scotland in Westminster, but there will have --
:42:33. > :42:39.be strong demand south of the border in England. You do not need 59 MPs
:42:40. > :42:51.in Westminster but they will say. And they will say, you have not to
:42:52. > :42:57.vote on our issues. The SNP have a better solution than Labour adopted.
:42:58. > :43:04.There has to be a UK element, an English element to devolution. You
:43:05. > :43:08.would see how much work would be needed to see how to make that
:43:09. > :43:11.viable at this stage. John Redwood is talking about an English
:43:12. > :43:17.parliament, about Westminster sitting as an English Parliament. I
:43:18. > :43:23.am sure there are huge regional interests in England raised by this
:43:24. > :43:29.debate. They will say, what about devolution to the north-east, the
:43:30. > :43:34.North East, the south-west? The big cities of the North, that is where
:43:35. > :43:42.the that amount is coming from most. Let's go back to Jo Coburn.
:43:43. > :43:43.The Nationalist and Wales next week's referendum will reinvigorate
:43:44. > :43:54.their campaign for greater self-determination. They account for
:43:55. > :43:58.about 35% of the UK population. The India stem of her holding their
:43:59. > :44:02.conference this" believe it is the moment for England to go it alone.
:44:03. > :44:11.-- conference this weekend and they believe.
:44:12. > :44:17.We do look very fondly on the idea of being the equivalent of the SNP.
:44:18. > :44:20.The difference, I suppose, is that English nationalism is not one to be
:44:21. > :44:24.the same as Scottish or Welsh or Irish nationalism. -- not going to
:44:25. > :44:33.be the same. We are individual to England. I wouldn't be presumptuous
:44:34. > :44:38.enough to say I am the same as Alex Salmond. Until recently partly --
:44:39. > :44:43.party believed in a federal UK and you think it should be dissolved.
:44:44. > :44:46.What has changed? We have come to the view that there is not good to
:44:47. > :44:51.be a federal UK that looks after England's interests. Today we have
:44:52. > :45:03.got Nick Clegg trying to trot out yet another version of regional eyes
:45:04. > :45:07.Asian for England -- regionalisation for England. It is all part of a
:45:08. > :45:12.Russian proposal to persuade people in need and not to vote yes in a
:45:13. > :45:16.week's time. -- rushed proposal. Would you be the recipient, your
:45:17. > :45:21.party would be the recipient, of votes from disillusioned English
:45:22. > :45:23.voters who feel not enough is being done whichever way the Scots vote?
:45:24. > :45:36.Will those go to UKIP? I think they will come to us, UKIP
:45:37. > :45:40.is getting a proportion of that boat because people have not clearly
:45:41. > :45:45.thought through that UKIP is a British Nationalist party and not an
:45:46. > :45:49.English nationalist party. You said BNP supporters are joining
:45:50. > :45:55.EU to become an electorally credible party. What did you mean?
:45:56. > :46:00.What we were saying, really, it is we welcome genuine converts to
:46:01. > :46:09.English nationalism wherever they come from. Our party has Members who
:46:10. > :46:14.come from the left and the right. We are simply a new party.
:46:15. > :46:18.Obviously, when you are new, you are looking to get people to come over
:46:19. > :46:22.as converts to your cause. Is that because you do not appeal to
:46:23. > :46:28.the mainstream? I think we do. In the last
:46:29. > :46:33.elections, most of our candidates, in fact virtually all our
:46:34. > :46:37.candidates, with one or two exceptions, were either previous
:46:38. > :46:42.conservatives or previous Labour Party people.
:46:43. > :46:48.It is just that the BBC focuses on that particular issue rather than on
:46:49. > :46:51.the fact most of our people did not come from there.
:46:52. > :46:56.Is there going to be a moment for your party on September the 19th,
:46:57. > :46:59.the day after the Scottish referendum?
:47:00. > :47:03.I think there will be, with either result.
:47:04. > :47:07.We are now faced with the option of yes, in which case, clearly, the
:47:08. > :47:12.whole question of England becomes that much more urgent which has to
:47:13. > :47:17.be addressed. John Redwood has only just come out from English
:47:18. > :47:21.Parliament, part of this movement to the thought that England has to be
:47:22. > :47:28.properly looked after in the future. If it is no, that no longer means no
:47:29. > :47:34.movement, it means this great surge of devo max. That hugely impacts on
:47:35. > :47:40.the cottages null structure not just for Scotland, but for the whole of
:47:41. > :47:43.the UK. England again needs to be properly represented. The British
:47:44. > :47:54.political establishment is not doing that job.
:47:55. > :48:02.We are joined now by Fiona Hyslop, a Member of the Scottish Polmont, and
:48:03. > :48:06.Cabinet Secretary for Culture. -- Parliament. There are huge
:48:07. > :48:13.uncertainties about the currency, currency union, the nature of EU
:48:14. > :48:19.ownership, NATO ownership. Would it make more sense to accept this offer
:48:20. > :48:25.further devolution including tax powers, so all the uncertainties go.
:48:26. > :48:29.What do you think? There are uncertainties with both.
:48:30. > :48:32.One of the 70s with the yes vote is that we get the Government we vote
:48:33. > :48:39.for. This week, we have seen sheer panic.
:48:40. > :48:43.Westminster parties taking the Scottish people for granted.
:48:44. > :48:48.This isn't a blueprint but a timetable for the powers which have
:48:49. > :48:53.already been announced. They are agreed they will give more
:48:54. > :48:58.power. I accept you can't pin them down. There is a general mood to
:48:59. > :49:02.devolve more power including income tax powers. If you do that, there is
:49:03. > :49:11.no question about the currency. All monetary union. No question about EU
:49:12. > :49:16.membership, pensions or NATO membership. That is guaranteed. If
:49:17. > :49:25.we go your route, none of that is guaranteed. We can use the pound.
:49:26. > :49:30.Not in a monetary union. Are we satisfied with some income tax? We
:49:31. > :49:39.want job-creating powers. None of the towers include corporation tax
:49:40. > :49:46.or employment -- powers. What people really want is making sure it works
:49:47. > :49:54.for the people of Scotland, transforming childcare, job
:49:55. > :49:56.creation. 100% of the powers, not this.
:49:57. > :50:07.The negative effect of not knowing whether Scotland will have which
:50:08. > :50:14.currency, monetary union, there could be far greater job destruction
:50:15. > :50:18.than anything you could do. You are joining in this agenda which
:50:19. > :50:23.is about fear mongering. What is the answer to my question.
:50:24. > :50:27.The uncertainty of the no campaign, can you tell me whether we will be
:50:28. > :50:30.within a referendum. The uncertainty of the no campaign,
:50:31. > :50:39.can you tell me whether we will be within a referendum... Do not answer
:50:40. > :50:45.with a question. You must the job destruction potential is huge.
:50:46. > :50:51.The interests of the UK will be to have a ministry union. You cannot
:50:52. > :50:56.guarantee by the Scotland will be in or out with David Cameron --
:50:57. > :51:02.monetary union. We have a choice of two futures.
:51:03. > :51:09.Some will be uncertain. But that is my point. Big things
:51:10. > :51:17.will be uncertain. People waking up to the wealth of
:51:18. > :51:22.Scotland, GDP per head being more than France without oil...
:51:23. > :51:26.So... We are in a strong position. People want the wealth of Scotland
:51:27. > :51:32.to work for the people of Scotland. You claim this will be a richer
:51:33. > :51:38.country. Why do you fail to win the document, the polls show only 21% of
:51:39. > :51:42.Scots think they would be better off with independents.
:51:43. > :51:47.People are waking up to the realisation of the reality.
:51:48. > :51:52.Not with 21%. In terms of what I am getting back
:51:53. > :51:55.is people are understanding Scotland is a far more wealthy country than
:51:56. > :52:02.they were led to believe. So why only 20%? 50% think there
:52:03. > :52:07.would be worse off. In terms of taxation, we have paid
:52:08. > :52:15.more of our tax to the rest of the UK per head. We pay our own way. It
:52:16. > :52:19.is about time we started to use the wealth of Scotland for the people of
:52:20. > :52:24.Scotland. I am not arguing about that. You
:52:25. > :52:29.haven't been paying more, that is what you said.
:52:30. > :52:34.Over the last five years, we have been paying more than we receive.
:52:35. > :52:40.Aren't people write to wonder whether there would be worse off?
:52:41. > :52:49.The Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, TSB, Tesco, standard life, all say
:52:50. > :52:54.they will move their headquarters. That is absolutely wrong. They are
:52:55. > :53:02.not saying they are moving. You in the BBC should know. Nick Robinson
:53:03. > :53:05.was told the registration office is not their headquarters. RBS has
:53:06. > :53:09.issued a letter to their staff saying it has no intention of moving
:53:10. > :53:14.their jobs. Yes, it is not their intention.
:53:15. > :53:21.I have constituents who do not want to hear from the BBC scaremongering.
:53:22. > :53:26.You know as well as I do... With registered offices, with
:53:27. > :53:30.headquarters, come the best jobs, the top legal jobs, the top
:53:31. > :53:35.accountancy, the top banking jobs. If you start to lose these jobs, the
:53:36. > :53:39.other things go. If the people running the country are not based in
:53:40. > :53:50.President Oleksandr Turchynov the company are not based in
:53:51. > :53:55.Scotland... -- if the people running the company are not based in
:53:56. > :54:02.Scotland. You could reduce corporation tax to
:54:03. > :54:08.make us competitive, a fuel price regulator, make supermarkets have a
:54:09. > :54:14.lower cost base. This is about the competitive environment you could
:54:15. > :54:18.have with a yes vote. An opportunity where we can have our
:54:19. > :54:23.wealth working for the people of Scotland. Nobody should
:54:24. > :54:28.scaremonger. You don't think it matters major
:54:29. > :54:32.Scottish institutions with the name Scotland in them are worried about
:54:33. > :54:37.the uncertainties of Scottish independence?
:54:38. > :54:48.I used to work for Standard AMSA life, in 1997, they said they were
:54:49. > :54:58.questioning policies -- Standard Life. I want a competitive Scotland.
:54:59. > :55:03.I have seen the comments from Aberdeen asset management saying
:55:04. > :55:08.they believe Scotland can be successful.
:55:09. > :55:13.We live in a global economy. I also know the opportunities we have the
:55:14. > :55:18.Scotland to make the wealth work for Scotland will affect everybody and
:55:19. > :55:26.every sector. Whether it is chemical industries, energy.
:55:27. > :55:33.You have made the NHS a key issue, it would only be safe from cuts from
:55:34. > :55:41.privatisation in an independent Scotland. Under your Government, how
:55:42. > :55:44.much of that would help increase spending in Scotland?
:55:45. > :55:51.There has been a real increase under this Government. How much? A real
:55:52. > :55:56.terms increase. A real terms increase which has helped to
:55:57. > :56:01.protect... According to this data, you have cut
:56:02. > :56:04.health spending in real terms by 1%.
:56:05. > :56:10.No, we have not cut health spending. Whereas the British Government has
:56:11. > :56:14.increased health spending by 4%. We have record numbers of employees
:56:15. > :56:15.in the health service. Why have you cut spending?
:56:16. > :56:21.We have other countries looking Why have you cut spending?
:56:22. > :56:25.us for patient safety. Why have you cut spending?
:56:26. > :56:31.We have free health care, free prescriptions, far more nurses
:56:32. > :56:34.working in Scotland now. Why do the independent figures
:56:35. > :56:39.showed that health spending in real terms is down under your Government?
:56:40. > :56:45.No, the health spending under the Scottish Government has increased in
:56:46. > :56:53.real terms. The risk to the health service is growing privatisation
:56:54. > :56:56.within England. Rolling back the state on the health service will
:56:57. > :57:01.have a long-term effect in terms of the amount of money coming to
:57:02. > :57:05.Scotland. Privatisation, are you saying to me
:57:06. > :57:12.at the Scottish Government has not privatised any health care?
:57:13. > :57:18.We took the help cleaning contracts back in-house.
:57:19. > :57:21.Have you not privatised anything? You have privatised your obesity
:57:22. > :57:27.strategy to Weight Watchers. Less than 1% of the Scottish
:57:28. > :57:36.Government's health budget... Have you privatised that?
:57:37. > :57:41.Have you privatised that or not? If one health board is making a
:57:42. > :57:45.decision, that is up to then. Less than 1% of the Scottish health
:57:46. > :57:50.budget is in private contract. How much does the NHS spent on
:57:51. > :57:56.private subcontractors? In terms of protecting the NHS, we
:57:57. > :57:59.have two disconnect the budget from the Scottish Government from the
:58:00. > :58:03.health budget in the UK. The only way to ensure the growing
:58:04. > :58:09.privatisation in the UK health service does not impact.
:58:10. > :58:12.You spend half ?1 billion on privatised health contractors.
:58:13. > :58:17.Less than 1% of the Scottish budget. The principle is there.
:58:18. > :58:21.When we have had the opportunity to change policies, that is why we took
:58:22. > :58:28.the private health cleaning contracts...
:58:29. > :58:32.You privatised Scottish health functions.
:58:33. > :58:36.We have to make sure we keep it within the principles established,
:58:37. > :58:42.free from the point of delivery. The 2012 health care act in England
:58:43. > :58:47.takes that responsibility away from the UK Health Minister.
:58:48. > :58:50.We retain that responsibility. Would you get the contract back from
:58:51. > :58:54.Weight Watchers? Maybe you need to talk to the health
:58:55. > :58:59.board yourself. That is it for today. We will be
:59:00. > :59:01.back on Sunday and again on Monday, we hope to see you then.