:00:39. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.The polls suggest it's all still to play for
:00:44. > :00:48.as we enter the final 24 hours of the Scottish referendum campaign.
:00:49. > :00:51.Both sides are making their final pushes before the polls
:00:52. > :00:57.We'll have the latest analysis on this tightest of races.
:00:58. > :01:00.Andrew has been on the ground with No campaigners
:01:01. > :01:22.I most certainly and voting no. I'm voting yes for a fairer society.
:01:23. > :01:25.The Foreign Secretary says the UK will play a leading role
:01:26. > :01:27.in the fight against the so-called Islamic State.
:01:28. > :01:29.We talk to the former Attorney General.
:01:30. > :01:36.But wages still aren't keeping pace with prices.
:01:37. > :01:44.Can the Government do anything about that before the election?
:01:45. > :01:49.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole programme today is
:01:50. > :01:52.Steve Richards, chief political commentator for the Independent.
:01:53. > :01:55.Welcome to the show. Pick a cliche, any cliche -
:01:56. > :01:59.too close to call, on a knife edge, The Scottish referendum campaign has
:02:00. > :02:04.entered its final day and commentators are still not
:02:05. > :02:07.calling it for any side. Three new polls last night all
:02:08. > :02:10.showed a slight lead for the No campaign amongst people who have
:02:11. > :02:13.already made up their minds. But, as we'll be discussing
:02:14. > :02:16.in a moment, it's those 'don't knows' who may well hold the key to
:02:17. > :02:19.this contest, and the pollsters have been scratching their heads to work
:02:20. > :02:24.out which way they might go. First though, to get you in the mood
:02:25. > :02:28.for tomorrow night, let's go to Jeremy Vine in the BBC's referendum
:02:29. > :02:32.programme HQ in Glasgow to tell us how the results will come in
:02:33. > :02:42.and how the campaign has developed. Votes are coming in through local
:02:43. > :02:45.council areas, so let me show you the 32 Scottish councils here
:02:46. > :02:47.in alphabetical order. What we've done is coloured them
:02:48. > :02:49.in green and red, As the votes come in we will put the
:02:50. > :02:54.percentages on this battle board. But there is an important point to
:02:55. > :02:57.make, which is that the biggest So let me re-order this board
:02:58. > :03:02.for you, and you can see it Glasgow and Edinburgh are
:03:03. > :03:05.the biggest, we will watch them Then they get smaller, so Perth
:03:06. > :03:13.and Kinross and Murray there. Orkney, Shetland, the islands there,
:03:14. > :03:21.fewer voters, maybe quicker counts, but less importance in terms of
:03:22. > :03:27.their presence in this referendum. Now,
:03:28. > :03:30.the story of the last year has been remarkable and I will illustrate
:03:31. > :03:34.this with the polls we've seen. If you go back a year,
:03:35. > :03:37.look at the kind The yeses came back as the year went
:03:38. > :03:44.on, you can see them starting to get closer, but months and months go
:03:45. > :03:47.by and it is basically looking from the polls as if the noes are
:03:48. > :03:53.going to win a comfortable victory. And then look at the drama
:03:54. > :03:57.of the last month, look at what's happened, look at how close the two
:03:58. > :04:00.sides have come to each other. Is there any way
:04:01. > :04:03.of working out which way those Here, we've coloured in a map
:04:04. > :04:08.of Scotland in the colours left An awful lot of SNP yellow,
:04:09. > :04:27.you can see the Labour belt So, you could simply say that SNP
:04:28. > :04:30.areas will go the independent. Blue areas will be against it
:04:31. > :04:37.and then there is Labour red. Crucially, that Labour red part
:04:38. > :04:40.includes Glasgow and Edinburgh, the two biggest councils,
:04:41. > :04:43.but there is a complication. They've been told
:04:44. > :04:48.by their leadership to go against, but there are all kinds
:04:49. > :04:50.of factors like social deprivation There are other problems with
:04:51. > :04:59.that simple analysis well. That was a map from the European
:05:00. > :05:02.election, so turnout was low It looks like turnout will be
:05:03. > :05:07.much higher for the referendum. So working out what will happen is
:05:08. > :05:11.really unchartered territory and that is another thing that makes
:05:12. > :05:21.this upcoming election so exciting. Well, one man who keeps as close an
:05:22. > :05:24.eye as any on this campaign is Professor John Curtice from
:05:25. > :05:27.Strathclyde University - I spoke to I think clearly the message
:05:28. > :05:36.of the opinion polls in line with a number of other polls
:05:37. > :05:40.in the last few days or so is that the no side are favourites, it looks
:05:41. > :05:44.as though they are narrowly ahead. But not so far ahead that we can
:05:45. > :05:47.assume the victory is in the bag. There is also some evidence from
:05:48. > :05:51.these polls that maybe the yes side Certainly, ICM's poll, which can be
:05:52. > :05:56.compared with the last poll they did for the Scotsman in the middle of
:05:57. > :06:00.August, that clearly confirms the message of other polls that there
:06:01. > :06:05.has been a substantial swing to yes. They are now putting the yes vote
:06:06. > :06:08.at as high point Survation also picked up
:06:09. > :06:14.a small swing to yes And again there are other increases
:06:15. > :06:21.in support in other polls. So we cannot be sure the yes side is
:06:22. > :06:25.not still making a bit of progress. From the yes side's perspective,
:06:26. > :06:28.they must feel these polls are Have we done enough
:06:29. > :06:34.in the last two or three days to But they are still within
:06:35. > :06:40.the margin of error. So, actually,
:06:41. > :06:46.it could tell us nothing at all. I think that is
:06:47. > :06:47.a slight exaggeration, Jo. Leaving aside
:06:48. > :06:49.the possibility that the polls are wrong, and clearly it is possible
:06:50. > :06:52.the polls are simply wrong, but if they are roughly right, they
:06:53. > :06:55.are telling us this is very close. The polling released today was for
:06:56. > :06:58.the most part done over the weekend. Therefore there is the possibility
:06:59. > :07:06.some people have changed their mind today, yesterday or on Monday
:07:07. > :07:09.and that that is one of the reasons What we're being told
:07:10. > :07:16.by these opinion polls - it is close, no seem to have the better
:07:17. > :07:19.chance, but neither side's chance Who is going to benefit
:07:20. > :07:26.from the record high turnout? I think the truth is the level
:07:27. > :07:30.of turnout is not going to make There is some evidence in the
:07:31. > :07:34.opinion polls that those people who did not vote in the 2011 Hollywood
:07:35. > :07:37.election are actually less likely to So to that extent at least, the very
:07:38. > :07:48.high turnout and the fact that some people will vote who don't normally
:07:49. > :07:51.grace the polling stations, that is However,
:07:52. > :07:58.it has also been clear from most polling evidence that yes voters are
:07:59. > :08:01.a bit more committed to turning up than no voters are, and that could
:08:02. > :08:05.in a close referendum prove to be But probably what one should say is,
:08:06. > :08:15.if indeed the turnout is anything like what we're expecting,
:08:16. > :08:18.which is certainly higher than 80%, the crucial thing is the turnout
:08:19. > :08:42.will be so high that arguments about Or not, it should be accepted by
:08:43. > :08:48.both sides as being Scotland's collective judgement on what its
:08:49. > :08:53.future should be. There have been reports that some people have said
:08:54. > :09:01.yes to polls but are planning to say no. Is there evidence of this? Both
:09:02. > :09:06.sides have theories about why the polls might be wrong. On the no
:09:07. > :09:11.side, it is that people are lying and they are saying they don't know
:09:12. > :09:15.but they are uncomfortable with declaring it. The problem is most
:09:16. > :09:19.polls have been done over the Internet, so you don't have to tell
:09:20. > :09:24.anybody what you are going to vote. The favourite theory on the yes side
:09:25. > :09:29.is the polls are missing crucial people who don't vote, haven't been
:09:30. > :09:35.on the register, and these people will strongly be them. But if the
:09:36. > :09:44.polls are indeed getting the folk who don't normally vote correctly,
:09:45. > :09:48.the votes are not particularly in favour. So you can understand the
:09:49. > :09:50.spinning that is going on on both sides of the campaign.
:09:51. > :09:57.Now, as John Curtice was saying, this campaign has been a slightly
:09:58. > :09:59.tricky one for the pollsters, not least because there isn't a previous
:10:00. > :10:03.such referendum to compare it to. To discuss this further, I'm joined by
:10:04. > :10:09.Martin Boon from ICM and Damian Lyons Lowe from Survation.
:10:10. > :10:19.Firstly, the people who don't know. And also those who did not vote in
:10:20. > :10:23.the last Holyrood elections. Why did that make it difficult for
:10:24. > :10:26.pollsters? Well, we don't know anything about them. Critical to the
:10:27. > :10:30.projection of the polls is the extent to which we can be confident
:10:31. > :10:35.about the reported behaviour of people we don't know, people who did
:10:36. > :10:40.not vote in the last election in 2011. This will be an unprecedented
:10:41. > :10:45.turnout. By implication, we will perhaps have a quarter of our sample
:10:46. > :10:50.about whom we do not have any record. Typically, in a general
:10:51. > :10:57.election poll, we would be able to tie their behaviour back to what we
:10:58. > :10:59.know they did before. But since many people have not voted before, we do
:11:00. > :11:03.not know enough about them. If these people were built in solidly to
:11:04. > :11:09.samples and they are telling us the truth, then we should be OK. There
:11:10. > :11:14.does not seem to be a huge impact either way. It is just a black hole
:11:15. > :11:22.we need to fill. What sort of numbers are we talking about? When
:11:23. > :11:25.the polls are that close, 48-52, several thousand voters, it could
:11:26. > :11:33.result in a different outcome on the night. Conceivably. The last
:11:34. > :11:37.telephone poll we conducted for the Better Together campaign, the number
:11:38. > :11:45.of people who did not know was as low as 9%. When we try to squeeze
:11:46. > :11:52.those people for an answer, those voters did not break significantly
:11:53. > :11:56.either way. So I'm not of the view there is a big pool of undecided
:11:57. > :12:02.voters ready to swing in one direction or the other. So this idea
:12:03. > :12:06.there is a silent majority of people who don't know who will vote no but
:12:07. > :12:14.haven't said so far all I've been under pressure to say yes, is that
:12:15. > :12:17.emit? No, that could well be a valid argument. Scottish people are
:12:18. > :12:22.patriotic, it is difficult to say I'm proud of Scotland but I also
:12:23. > :12:25.appreciate the benefits of staying in the UK. That could potentially
:12:26. > :12:31.carry some social embarrassment, so it could be a factor. If there is
:12:32. > :12:39.spiral of silence around this, feeling people are not telling you
:12:40. > :12:44.the truth when it comes to it? It is ICM's pet theory, which obviously
:12:45. > :12:49.proved true in the 1990s with regard to the Conservatives, when people
:12:50. > :12:52.were reluctant to admit they were still conservative voters. In
:12:53. > :12:56.Scotland, the extent to which people are put off saying they potentially
:12:57. > :13:02.will vote no because they feel there is an undesirable social
:13:03. > :13:09.relationship there, that is not going to be picked up in the online
:13:10. > :13:14.poll. Where there is a bit of evidence I've conducted privately,
:13:15. > :13:18.I've seen a greater level of reluctance among people who tell us
:13:19. > :13:24.they will vote no in terms of admitting that fact. In a referendum
:13:25. > :13:27.which is so close to 50-50, that could be a deciding factor. I wish I
:13:28. > :13:32.had a bit more evidence to underpin it. What is your reaction now after
:13:33. > :13:41.the poll which put the yes campaign ahead? I can only speak to our own
:13:42. > :13:47.figures. We conducted 13 polls since February, 12 online and one
:13:48. > :13:59.telephone. Yes has between act has been between 45 and 48. We've really
:14:00. > :14:06.not seen that much movement since February. So there is a lot of
:14:07. > :14:12.narrative out there in the media demanding low-priced Internet polls.
:14:13. > :14:16.In some sense, the media are getting what the media want, which is
:14:17. > :14:24.something to talk about. Steve, there has been a huge amount of
:14:25. > :14:30.pressure and demand for these polls. Yes, I think it has been quite
:14:31. > :14:34.difficult. I was up in Edinburgh the August before last and I bumped into
:14:35. > :14:45.a pollster friend of mine who said the data is absolutely different
:14:46. > :14:50.notes and -- definitive, it will be a no vote, the only question is the
:14:51. > :14:58.margin by which the no campaign will win. Recently, I phoned him up to
:14:59. > :15:04.see what he thought. He said he'd never seen a swing like it. So it
:15:05. > :15:13.clearly has been a difficult one to track. One of the problems is there
:15:14. > :15:20.just are not enough people in Scotland to create a decent sample
:15:21. > :15:23.frame from which to draw from. If there was an average panel size of
:15:24. > :15:33.people, a large one might be 2000 people. You've got the same people
:15:34. > :15:34.in Scotland being pulled over and over again, probably creating a
:15:35. > :15:48.self-selecting bias. So is telephone polling more
:15:49. > :15:53.reliable? As the representative of ICM I would have to say that as we
:15:54. > :16:02.are the last telephone poll company still standing! We are still
:16:03. > :16:08.standing. The telephone methodology, the online methodology and a face
:16:09. > :16:13.poll said the same thing. If there is a problem with any methodology,
:16:14. > :16:17.it is a problem we are all facing and all methodologies. It is a
:16:18. > :16:21.problem that the polls are coalescing above the 50% mark for
:16:22. > :16:26.No. I do not understand why there have not been more which have
:16:27. > :16:30.dropped below 50. There is so much going on with this referendum that I
:16:31. > :16:39.do not understand. Take us through your last two polls. The Guardian on
:16:40. > :16:44.Friday was 51% for No. The latest one in the Scotsman was 52% for No.
:16:45. > :16:49.Clearly they are saying the same thing, that No have the edge but it
:16:50. > :16:57.could still be too close to call. The methodologies... What about the
:16:58. > :17:03.Sunday Telegraph poll? That used a slightly different methodology. It
:17:04. > :17:11.had 54% for Yeses. How do you explain that difference? In a tight
:17:12. > :17:15.race, that is a massive difference? Every polling company will
:17:16. > :17:20.experience a rogue from time to time. I would like to airbrush it
:17:21. > :17:25.from history because it does not fit the pattern. Because we did it
:17:26. > :17:30.differently, that underpins why we were slightly different on that one.
:17:31. > :17:40.How likely do you think it is, Damian, that the result will be
:17:41. > :17:45.different to the polls? Our methodology is similar to Martin's.
:17:46. > :17:52.It is the telephone. The ability to have a large enough online panel to
:17:53. > :17:57.not keep asking the same people over and over again, the way we conducted
:17:58. > :18:01.our last poll, we took a representative sample of individual
:18:02. > :18:04.records, then called those people, then adjusted those people back to
:18:05. > :18:11.what are the demographics of Scotland and that showed 54% for the
:18:12. > :18:16.No campaign. We are not having a social embarrassment issue as far as
:18:17. > :18:22.I am concerned! Would you like to bet? I would not like to bet on this
:18:23. > :18:26.one. The polls are nearly almost right these days. We must work on
:18:27. > :18:31.the assumption that that is coalescing around a No win but I
:18:32. > :18:33.would not put money on it. Thank you, gentlemen, we will find out
:18:34. > :18:36.soon enough. Now, you may remember that yesterday
:18:37. > :18:39.Andrew was with Nicola Sturgeon out on the Yes campaign trail
:18:40. > :18:41.in Hamilton. I've still not received
:18:42. > :18:43.a post card or any shortbread. Well,
:18:44. > :18:45.today he's out with the No campaign, with Jim Murphy in Barrhead in his
:18:46. > :19:09.constituency of East Renfrewnshire. On the final day of this long
:19:10. > :19:16.referendum campaign, the likelihood is that it Aberdeen will vote No,
:19:17. > :19:21.Dundee will vote Yeses, this leaves the West of Scotland and this
:19:22. > :19:25.greater Glasgow area where many Scots live, the key battle ground
:19:26. > :19:29.which could determine the result. In the battle ground, the fight is for
:19:30. > :19:37.Labour to convince its core vote to stick with the union.
:19:38. > :19:45.The Better Together campaign has been criticised for not being vocal
:19:46. > :19:50.enough, for lacking passion. Jim Murphy, the Labour MP in this area
:19:51. > :19:55.has been a one-man campaign to put that right. He has gone up and down
:19:56. > :20:08.the country with his Irn-Bru crate on which he stands and speaks and
:20:09. > :20:14.canvases all over the place. Are you voting for his side? I certainly am.
:20:15. > :20:21.We want to stay the same and not change. Do you think that is how
:20:22. > :20:28.people in areas like this feel? I think it is maybe 50-50. You think
:20:29. > :20:34.it is close? Yes. Are you in danger of losing the
:20:35. > :20:41.traditional Labour vote? I do not think so. Increasingly, some of the
:20:42. > :20:45.Labour voters gave the SNP the benefit of the doubt a couple of
:20:46. > :20:50.weeks ago and looked at them and they are now shrouded in doubt. When
:20:51. > :20:54.we examined what they were proposing, no clarity on the pound
:20:55. > :21:01.or the pensions, I think there is a move back to us among Labour voters.
:21:02. > :21:10.How much faith you have in the idea of the silent No vote. There are a
:21:11. > :21:15.lot of voters the polls are not picking up? I think if this was a
:21:16. > :21:20.referendum about posters in Windows, the Yes campaign would win. They
:21:21. > :21:24.have more posters in the windows but Windows do not vote. There is a
:21:25. > :21:30.quite patriotically John to waiting on Thursday will stand up and be
:21:31. > :21:38.counted and vote No in a quiet, dignified way -- a patriotic
:21:39. > :21:44.majority. How are you going to vote on Thursday? I know how I am going
:21:45. > :21:50.to vote, I do not want to say on the television. I have decided. All I
:21:51. > :21:56.can say is the response we have got today is fantastic. We are getting a
:21:57. > :22:01.lot of people saying no thanks. Vote yes for a fairer society. We have a
:22:02. > :22:06.lot of money which can go to people rather than investments. The polls
:22:07. > :22:12.have been tight, tight enough to make predictions dangerous. What
:22:13. > :22:16.makes this even more unpredictable is the existence of people in two
:22:17. > :22:23.groups. Those living in socially deprived areas. They may not have
:22:24. > :22:26.voted for many years. The Yes campaign think they will come out
:22:27. > :22:31.for independence. On the other side, the silent Nos. They have made
:22:32. > :22:36.up their mind but they are not telling anybody about it. The
:22:37. > :22:41.problem is, politicians, pundits and pollsters have no idea how big
:22:42. > :22:47.either group is which means we have no idea how this will pan out until
:22:48. > :22:53.these results start coming in in the early hours of Friday morning.
:22:54. > :22:59.I am delighted to say our new young reporter joins us from Aberdeen.
:23:00. > :23:08.Andrew, welcome. It is a privilege to be on the same show as you! You
:23:09. > :23:13.have been on the campaign trail for nearly a week in Scotland. Give us a
:23:14. > :23:18.feel. Tell us how it has felt for you wandering around the streets on
:23:19. > :23:22.both sides? As the campaign polls have got closer and there is a sense
:23:23. > :23:29.of momentum behind the Yes campaign and No becoming more defensive, it
:23:30. > :23:33.has got more frenetic, hectic, passionate and emotional on both
:23:34. > :23:37.sides and at times nasty as well. There is a false balance to say
:23:38. > :23:43.there is nasty on both sides, more nasty nurse has come from the Yes
:23:44. > :23:50.campaign, from a small minority. I have been in Edinburgh, Paisley,
:23:51. > :23:56.Glasgow, bar head, Hamilton with the Yes and the No. Everywhere I have
:23:57. > :23:59.gone I have been met with friendliness, politeness, engagement
:24:00. > :24:04.and everybody wants to talk about it coming up and no sense of threat or
:24:05. > :24:08.nasty nurse. There has been some but it is by no means everywhere.
:24:09. > :24:12.Everywhere I went people wanted to simply talk about it and get
:24:13. > :24:18.engaged. We have a lot of Daily Politics viewers in this campaign.
:24:19. > :24:21.I'm glad to hear it. What about this idea that people are not saying how
:24:22. > :24:26.they will vote. When you say people are keen to talk to you at and
:24:27. > :24:30.engage, are they not telling you how they will vote apart from the ones
:24:31. > :24:36.in the film? Most people are telling us. There is still a sizeable chunk
:24:37. > :24:40.of people who are yet to make up their minds. The problem is, we are
:24:41. > :24:45.dealing with the concept here which we cannot measure. We do not know
:24:46. > :24:49.how many of these people fall into the silent No, just as we do not
:24:50. > :24:54.know how many of these are lapsed Labour voters living in pretty bad
:24:55. > :24:58.social conditions who will turn out for Yes. By definition, if they are
:24:59. > :25:04.not going to tell you, we do not know. The pollsters have struggled.
:25:05. > :25:09.Commentators like me have struggled. The politicians have struggled to
:25:10. > :25:12.reach these people. It is what makes this election even more
:25:13. > :25:17.unpredictable than the polls are suggesting. You are in Aberdeen, a
:25:18. > :25:23.key battle ground, how is it splitting up there? The hinterland
:25:24. > :25:30.of Aberdeen is Alex Salmond territory. Nationalism is very
:25:31. > :25:35.strong in the counterparts -- County parts of this area. But Aberdeen is
:25:36. > :25:42.the richest city in Britain. The un employment rate is the lowest of any
:25:43. > :25:47.city in Britain. The per capita incomes are highest. When you add
:25:48. > :25:52.all these things together, it is likely that Aberdeen will be in the
:25:53. > :25:56.No camp. But I would put it this way, if on the night we discover
:25:57. > :26:01.Aberdeen is in the Yes camp, I think you can be pretty sure that this
:26:02. > :26:05.country is heading for independence. Interesting. That is
:26:06. > :26:10.one of many to watch on the night. Prediction time, who will win? The
:26:11. > :26:17.No no, I am not going to do it. It is too close. There is no point in
:26:18. > :26:22.making things up. This has been a wake-up call for commentators as
:26:23. > :26:26.well as the pollsters. This has been unlike any campaign we have ever
:26:27. > :26:30.covered before. I was having dinner one night and there was a rather
:26:31. > :26:38.noisy hen party going on. They were all dressed up in costumes and it
:26:39. > :26:42.suddenly went quiet. I said, why are they now talking among themselves
:26:43. > :26:45.rather than shouting and screaming and laughing and joking? They said,
:26:46. > :26:51.they are talking about the referendum and how to vote. That is
:26:52. > :26:56.how deep it has gone into Scottish society. It is serious stuff.
:26:57. > :27:03.Andrew, enjoy your final hours are up in Scotland.
:27:04. > :27:08.Steve, picking up on that. There have been reports of intimidation.
:27:09. > :27:12.Is that the general feeling you have been getting that in the closing
:27:13. > :27:17.stages it has become so tense that the level of abuse and intimidation
:27:18. > :27:22.on both sides has gone up? Clearly, there has been a bit. We have seen
:27:23. > :27:26.the pictures. Ed Miliband yesterday had to stop his tour of a shopping
:27:27. > :27:31.centre and so on. It could be that that is one of the sub themes
:27:32. > :27:36.emerging over the next 48 hours, that there could be more of that,
:27:37. > :27:40.because it is so intense and passionate and close. I do not think
:27:41. > :27:45.that is the overriding feeling, as Andrew suggested himself, that the
:27:46. > :28:01.overriding sense is one of intense engagement and politics coming
:28:02. > :28:03.alive, exposing the complete myth that does the rounds that politics
:28:04. > :28:06.is boring and dull. It clearly is not. It just has to be presented
:28:07. > :28:08.certain ways and people up it up, as you and I lap it up normally. That
:28:09. > :28:12.is positive and exciting. The problem with that argument is, the
:28:13. > :28:17.debate they are having is, how they are ruled. It is a big debate but it
:28:18. > :28:24.is not how you run the NHS, how you raise money. Those problems are
:28:25. > :28:29.really thorny and involve compromises and working things
:28:30. > :28:34.through. For example, all those voting yes will not agree on all of
:28:35. > :28:40.those kind of issues. They are the nitty-gritty of politics. Just
:28:41. > :28:45.briefly, what about healing after this? It has been divisive. The
:28:46. > :28:51.country looks as if it will be split. How do you heal the divisions
:28:52. > :28:56.at community level afterwards? I do not think they will be. If there is
:28:57. > :29:01.a close No vote, there will be calls for another referendum quite
:29:02. > :29:04.quickly. If the Conservatives win at Westminster and hold a referendum on
:29:05. > :29:09.Europe and we vote to pull out, Scotland will say, we want a
:29:10. > :29:17.referendum to have independence to stay in. That is in two years time.
:29:18. > :29:19.I think the healing thing, it will not happen. This issue is out and
:29:20. > :29:25.incidentally, now will apply big-time to England, Wales and
:29:26. > :29:29.Northern Ireland. We are in for a pretty for Cannock period in British
:29:30. > :29:43.politics. Thank you -- volcanic. What about Ed Miliband and labour?
:29:44. > :29:46.Many have blamed the party for the recent collapse in support for the
:29:47. > :29:50.Better Together campaign. Some suggest the situation is the result
:29:51. > :29:55.of 20 years of complacency and failure in Scotland. Labour has been
:29:56. > :30:01.struggling in Scotland for a number of years. In 2011, they let a big
:30:02. > :30:05.lead in the polls slip ahead of parliamentary elections before
:30:06. > :30:12.losing to the SNP in a landslide. According to one recent poll, 42% of
:30:13. > :30:16.Scots who voted in the 2010 election are minded to vote yes to
:30:17. > :30:20.independence on Thursday. The national polls have also tightened
:30:21. > :30:26.for Labour in recent days. Earlier this week, one had the party neck
:30:27. > :30:30.and neck with the Tories. Of more concern for the party is Ed
:30:31. > :30:38.Miliband's personal approval rating, which remained significantly behind
:30:39. > :30:43.Cameron's on 29%. It faces a battle on two fronts. Ed Miliband must make
:30:44. > :30:47.real inroads with middle-class voters in the south-east of England
:30:48. > :30:52.without alienating its core working-class base who are
:30:53. > :30:58.increasingly attracted to the overtures of Nigel Farage and UKIP.
:30:59. > :31:03.Joining me is a former Labour parliamentary candidate, welcome.
:31:04. > :31:10.Where in your view has Scottish Labour gone wrong? The yes campaign
:31:11. > :31:14.has been high on energy and low on detail. Labour needs to match that
:31:15. > :31:19.energy but provide the tell as to how we can create a better country.
:31:20. > :31:23.Do you broadly agree with the argument that the support that has
:31:24. > :31:28.been bleeding from Labour in Scotland to SNP is as a result of
:31:29. > :31:34.Labour complacency or that they have not been left wing enough in the
:31:35. > :31:37.eyes of Scottish voters? It certainly seems people who voted
:31:38. > :31:42.Labour in the past are considering voting yes and people who have never
:31:43. > :31:46.voted before are considering voting yes. All of these are people Labour
:31:47. > :31:51.should be reaching out to. Who do you blame? I think it is a long-term
:31:52. > :31:57.issue, nobody is personally to blame. Not the Scottish Labour
:31:58. > :32:03.figures who've come down to Westminster? They have let their
:32:04. > :32:09.Scottish heartlands go. You see similar issues in the North of
:32:10. > :32:13.England in other Labour strongholds, where Labour's presents
:32:14. > :32:19.is not as dynamic as we would like it to be. This is a challenge for
:32:20. > :32:25.the party as a whole. You talk about energy, is it about policy as well?
:32:26. > :32:31.I think what has happened with the slip of support in both directions
:32:32. > :32:34.is that Labour is not providing a significant battle for hope and a
:32:35. > :32:41.better tomorrow for the country. It has two provide that. There is a
:32:42. > :32:45.tacit admission that they have failed in Scotland. TUC that, has
:32:46. > :32:54.there been a failure or is it just underestimating the power of the yes
:32:55. > :33:00.campaign linked to SNP? Well, even if it is an underestimation, that is
:33:01. > :33:05.a failure as well. It is a decline of both the big parties. The
:33:06. > :33:09.Conservatives remain toxic in Scotland and the North of England,
:33:10. > :33:14.David Cameron has not modernise the party so it has become acceptable in
:33:15. > :33:18.these places. Very senior figures in the Labour Party who are campaigning
:33:19. > :33:27.in Scotland tell me that what they get on the doorstep is that the
:33:28. > :33:31.Labour government was no different from the Tory government.
:33:32. > :33:35.Objectively, that is not the case, you can list many differences, but
:33:36. > :33:44.that is the perception. So they have been complacent. But you highlight
:33:45. > :33:50.the dilemma - how do Miliband and co-give a message that appeals both
:33:51. > :33:54.to the south of England and the North? There are answers, but they
:33:55. > :34:01.have not answered that because of Scotland. Tony Blair always thought
:34:02. > :34:06.devolution was how it might end up, and that if you give away that much
:34:07. > :34:11.power, you get closer to independence, you don't blunt the
:34:12. > :34:16.SNP. Was he right? Well, evidently that is the case! I remember people
:34:17. > :34:21.telling me in 1997 when the holder pollution thing kicked off, whatever
:34:22. > :34:31.else happens, at least we kill off Alex Salmond. Anterior is running
:34:32. > :34:37.Scotland. -- and here he is. But they had no choice in 1997, they had
:34:38. > :34:42.to do something. If they'd gone into that election and offered nothing to
:34:43. > :34:49.Scotland, there would then it all to reaction anyway. Clearly, that
:34:50. > :34:56.devolution settlement has triggered the events which led to this. As did
:34:57. > :35:00.the election of a government in 2010 which was obsessed with public
:35:01. > :35:04.sector reform, which changed things in England when Scotland was in a
:35:05. > :35:09.completely different place. That has widened the gap between the two.
:35:10. > :35:12.Steve Richards says there is a perception in Scotland the two
:35:13. > :35:16.parties are similar. You could argue Labour has signed up to the first
:35:17. > :35:20.year of spending commitments, that there will not be wage rises for
:35:21. > :35:24.public sector workers. These are things that could let Scottish
:35:25. > :35:29.voters think, well, what is the difference? Did they need to be more
:35:30. > :35:37.left wing but Scottish voters? Well, Steve also said the reality
:35:38. > :35:46.did not conform to that. Getting rid of zero hours contracts, a higher
:35:47. > :35:50.living wage for workers. But that message has not got across. Has it
:35:51. > :35:53.been right to have Gordon Brown painted as the saviour of the
:35:54. > :35:59.union? Was Alistair Darling the right person to lead the campaign? I
:36:00. > :36:06.think Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy have done a great job. Do you
:36:07. > :36:11.agree? Listening yesterday to Gordon Brown, former Prime Minister, a
:36:12. > :36:15.backbench MP, offering all sorts of promises on more powers on a mandate
:36:16. > :36:20.he doesn't really have, was that really the right thing by Labour to
:36:21. > :36:24.do, never mind the Prime Minister? I think bringing Gordon Brown to the
:36:25. > :36:33.fore of the campaign was a smart move. Round has a sense of Scotland
:36:34. > :36:38.and Scottish politics and what works which has always been formidable.
:36:39. > :36:43.John Curtis told me in an interview earlier this year that Brown, more
:36:44. > :36:46.than anyone else on that side of the argument, had framed a message
:36:47. > :36:54.effectively targeting the don't knows in Scotland. So I think it has
:36:55. > :36:57.made a difference. To your broader point, Labour have emphatically got
:36:58. > :37:02.a problem with the way the perceived in Scotland. I know that because
:37:03. > :37:06.they are telling me that. And in northern towns as well. How big a
:37:07. > :37:15.problem is it, briefly, in northern towns? It is a problem but I think
:37:16. > :37:20.with hard work, Labour can change it. Why haven't they done so until
:37:21. > :37:23.now? I think there are lots of constituencies where you have
:37:24. > :37:26.hard-working, local MPs who really count of those perceptions.
:37:27. > :37:29.More good news on the economy for the government today with the number
:37:30. > :37:32.of people in employment rising by 74,000 and unemployment down to
:37:33. > :37:37.The number of people claiming Job Seekers Allowance has also
:37:38. > :37:41.fallen below 1 million for the first time in six years.
:37:42. > :37:44.Wages however are still failing to keep pace with inflation and rose
:37:45. > :37:50.Earlier I spoke to work and pensions minister Mark Harper and put it to
:37:51. > :37:55.him that people aren't feeling the benefits of economic growth...
:37:56. > :37:58.Of course it's the case people are not going to
:37:59. > :38:01.feel better off until wages grow faster, but it is about making sure
:38:02. > :38:06.We want jobs to be growing, which they are.
:38:07. > :38:09.I also think it is worth highlighting today that the figures
:38:10. > :38:13.are good in all parts of the United Kingdom, including in Scotland.
:38:14. > :38:17.The employment rate in Scotland is higher than
:38:18. > :38:20.the rest of the UK, unemployment is lower, youth unemployment is low
:38:21. > :38:26.It's a big contrast if you look at the numbers in Ireland, say, where
:38:27. > :38:29.Scotland has recovered so much better from the economic crash.
:38:30. > :38:35.It just goes to show we are better economically together, which I think
:38:36. > :38:39.people in Scotland will bear in mind when they vote tomorrow.
:38:40. > :38:42.Are you worried by the numbers of people who are in low paid
:38:43. > :38:49.I think if you look at some of the breakdowns,
:38:50. > :38:53.one thing which is interesting is if you look at part-time work,
:38:54. > :38:56.particularly women in part-time work, 90% of those people wanted to
:38:57. > :39:04.Of course, everyone would like to be paid more, but people are
:39:05. > :39:06.generally in part-time work because they want the flexibility.
:39:07. > :39:10.The number of people who want full-time work but can't find it
:39:11. > :39:19.So things are going in the right direction.
:39:20. > :39:21.Is everything perfect? No, of course it isn't.
:39:22. > :39:24.We still have some way to go to recover from what was
:39:25. > :39:27.the deepest recession we've had, but these figures are positive.
:39:28. > :39:31.I suggest it is more than some way to go, because wages have been
:39:32. > :39:33.behind inflation now for several years, and the gap that has
:39:34. > :39:43.It will take an awful long time, much longer than predicted,
:39:44. > :39:49.By 2015, will you be able to stand there
:39:50. > :39:53.and say, you are feeling better off now than you were in 2010?
:39:54. > :39:56.I think the economy is immeasurably better than was when we came
:39:57. > :39:58.We've reduced the deficit, we've seen 2.1 million more
:39:59. > :40:04.Wages are rising faster in the private sector.
:40:05. > :40:11.Things are not perfect and we still have a long way to go.
:40:12. > :40:16.That is one reason actually people next year at the general election
:40:17. > :40:20.need to focus on voting for a Conservative government to continue
:40:21. > :40:24.this growth and not put it at risk by going back to the poor economic
:40:25. > :40:28.policies we saw under the last Labour government.
:40:29. > :40:31.But you are not reaping the benefits of that economic growth,
:40:32. > :40:33.electorally. That's what many Tory MPs feel.
:40:34. > :40:37.Also, if you continue along a low paid, unskilled
:40:38. > :40:40.labour force entering the market, which you have argued,
:40:41. > :40:45.you are not going to pay that deficit down further.
:40:46. > :40:47.The rate at which you pay it down will slow,
:40:48. > :40:51.the deficit will not reduce in the way you want it because you are not
:40:52. > :40:54.getting the tax receipts because of this low paid, unskilled economy.
:40:55. > :41:04.It is a third lower than when we came to office in 2010.
:41:05. > :41:08.I don't think you should decry the fact that we are successfully
:41:09. > :41:10.getting into work hundreds of thousands of people who were not
:41:11. > :41:16.Yes, some of them may be starting off in entry-level positions,
:41:17. > :41:19.but you get an entry-level job, then you can gain more skills
:41:20. > :41:24.It is one reason we are rolling out Universal Credit.
:41:25. > :41:27.It will always pay to take more hours at work
:41:28. > :41:37.One of the problems is the productivity
:41:38. > :41:44.Even with these people coming in at whatever level they enter
:41:45. > :41:46.the jobs market, the productivity levels are low
:41:47. > :41:51.and there is no sign or indication of how and when they will improve.
:41:52. > :41:54.Well, there is a dispute about how productivity levels are measured.
:41:55. > :41:57.I've been clear these figures are very positive and they
:41:58. > :42:07.They are positive across all parts of the UK.
:42:08. > :42:09.And they should be welcomed by people.
:42:10. > :42:13.They are positive across all parts of the UK.
:42:14. > :42:21.I'm joined now by economics editor at The Economist, Richard Davies.
:42:22. > :42:28.There are two conflicting views about how well the economy is doing.
:42:29. > :42:31.Do you subscribe to the macro picture or the 1 broadly represented
:42:32. > :42:37.by Labour which says people are not feeling it in their pockets? I think
:42:38. > :42:43.he is right. On the big picture, when you look abroad, unemployment
:42:44. > :42:48.in the US is falling but it is falling because people are giving up
:42:49. > :43:00.and leaving the workforce. So on the international picture, that picture
:43:01. > :43:04.is correct. But where he is wrong is the productivity puzzle. There is no
:43:05. > :43:09.real debate. The shortfall in productivity when compared to the
:43:10. > :43:18.precrisis trend is about 12 to 14%. Maybe 2% of that is Miss measured.
:43:19. > :43:21.The rest is a huge gap. It means the British worker power is producing
:43:22. > :43:27.less output, and because of that, wages, as you correctly put it to
:43:28. > :43:34.him, have stagnated. What is the prognosis for the future? In the
:43:35. > :43:39.short term, it is instructive to look at Bacon sees. In the data
:43:40. > :43:43.release we had today, there were around 50,000 jobs in manufacturing.
:43:44. > :43:49.That is great, because the average weekly wage in manufacturing is
:43:50. > :43:53.high, around ?550. There were ten times more jobs in the services
:43:54. > :43:57.sector, many in restaurants and hotels. Those are lower paid jobs
:43:58. > :44:01.which indicates wages are not going to pick up much. This feeds into
:44:02. > :44:07.your question about the fiscal puzzle. He was a bit unclear on
:44:08. > :44:11.that. Personal income tax receipts that are flowing to the Exchequer
:44:12. > :44:16.are falling and the reason they are falling is because of this generous
:44:17. > :44:22.increase in the amount you are in tax-free. It was ?6,000 five years
:44:23. > :44:26.ago, it has gone up to ?10,000. That is great for people on low pay. The
:44:27. > :44:32.problem is, there are so many people earning a bit more than that ?10,000
:44:33. > :44:37.but the deficit is not coming down as quickly as the Conservative Party
:44:38. > :44:41.hoped. Interest rates, that is the big debate between now and the
:44:42. > :44:50.election. Do you expect them to go up before the election? There is a
:44:51. > :44:53.possibility they might go up by 25 basis points. Very little
:44:54. > :44:57.possibility of them going much higher than that. Briefly, that is
:44:58. > :45:03.because of a big surplus in the labour market. We still have 2
:45:04. > :45:07.million people unemployed, 6% unemployed. That can probably go
:45:08. > :45:11.down to 5% before we start to see wage pressure. That wage pressure is
:45:12. > :45:19.what the Bank of England will be really looking at. The problem is
:45:20. > :45:20.the political message. It looks as though growth will continue, Britain
:45:21. > :45:40.racing ahead. What has Labour said? As you have implied, in both your
:45:41. > :45:46.discussions on this, there are still high levels of insecurity and wages
:45:47. > :45:50.that are relatively low compared to price inflation and so on. In
:45:51. > :45:57.theory, they have still got material to go. I think the problem is the
:45:58. > :46:03.recent past witches and a motive part of British politics and I
:46:04. > :46:12.gather is strong in opinion polls -- the recent past which is an emotive
:46:13. > :46:20.part of British politics. Miliband and Ed Balls' response has been to
:46:21. > :46:24.not talk about the recent past and they have left the space open for
:46:25. > :46:31.George Osborne to get the message across which the polls are saying is
:46:32. > :46:36.powerful. It is a bit like they used to play on the Winter of discontent
:46:37. > :46:41.which happened in 1979 for years and years after with great force. Unless
:46:42. > :46:44.there is a response and an effective response, the two rain is there.
:46:45. > :46:48.Thank you. Following the beheading of British
:46:49. > :46:50.aid worker David Haines by Islamic State jihadis, military intervention
:46:51. > :46:52.against IS looks increasingly likely but it's still unclear where that
:46:53. > :46:57.intervention will take place. Will airstrikes be confined to Iraq
:46:58. > :47:10.or will British and American forces There was confusion last week when
:47:11. > :47:14.the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond appeared to rule that out but was
:47:15. > :47:15.then corrected by Downing Street. Here's what Foreign Secretary Philip
:47:16. > :47:18.Hammond had to say on the matter after a meeting of
:47:19. > :47:27.foreign leaders in Paris on Monday. I am sorry if I created confusion
:47:28. > :47:32.last Thursday. I gave the position in relation to a strike but what
:47:33. > :47:36.people are talking about here is the possibility that there may be some
:47:37. > :47:41.action against Isil in Syria at some point in the future. I have said
:47:42. > :47:49.already in parliament that would be an order of magnitude more difficult
:47:50. > :47:54.than air strikes in Iraq for many reasons, legal and technical. We
:47:55. > :47:59.have not ruled it out. We have not made a final decision yet. I have
:48:00. > :48:04.said that Britain is clear that it will play a leading role in this
:48:05. > :48:06.coalition. The Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond.
:48:07. > :48:10.There are question marks over the legality of military action
:48:11. > :48:14.With me to discuss these is Dominic Grieve who was
:48:15. > :48:18.the government's Attorney General up until July of this year.
:48:19. > :48:23.Welcome to the Daily Politics. David Cameron says we would not need the
:48:24. > :48:31.permission of President Assad to launch air strikes in Syria. Do you
:48:32. > :48:38.agree? That is probably correct. If the decisions are right in relation
:48:39. > :48:44.to the necessity to protect the population from gross mistreatment
:48:45. > :48:48.or genocide which IS seems to be perpetrating, then under the
:48:49. > :48:53.international law it would be possible to do that. You have said
:48:54. > :48:58.there is a human rights argument, that is what was used in the Balkans
:48:59. > :49:06.and Kosovo by Tony Blair for that intervention. But is it wrong to say
:49:07. > :49:13.the Assad regime is illegitimate and that would provide a sound basis for
:49:14. > :49:18.bombing ices in Syria. That is not how I understood what the Prime
:49:19. > :49:24.Minister was saying. Normally you take action on behalf of the
:49:25. > :49:29.government of that country but the way Syria has been behaving has been
:49:30. > :49:34.so bad. The government does not wish to cooperate with such a regime. In
:49:35. > :49:39.those circumstances, cooperation with the Syrian regime would I think
:49:40. > :49:47.be possible. David Cameron's words word that the Iraqi government is an
:49:48. > :49:52.illegitimate government. Is he wrong to say it is an illegitimate regime?
:49:53. > :50:00.I do not think that is the issue. People can say if they think a
:50:01. > :50:04.regime is legitimate or not. Also, it is clear that it's writ does not
:50:05. > :50:11.run through the country. I think what the Prime Minister was saying
:50:12. > :50:16.is this was a regime with which we could not under any circumstances do
:50:17. > :50:19.business. So it is not a problem for the Prime Minister to ignore
:50:20. > :50:24.President Assad if air strikes were launched in his country? If the
:50:25. > :50:28.correct grounds were there because of humanitarian necessity and the
:50:29. > :50:32.steps that were taken were reasonable, necessary and
:50:33. > :50:35.proportionate to address that, it can be justified under customary
:50:36. > :50:40.international law. Although it is a concept which is challenged in some
:50:41. > :50:55.countries but it is one that the UK has always maintained a close. There
:50:56. > :50:57.are many parts of the world where well-documented atrocities are
:50:58. > :50:59.committed and we have not got involved. Where in your mind do you
:51:00. > :51:01.draw the line between human rights abuses justifying intervention and
:51:02. > :51:04.where it does not? For humanitarian necessity to come in, it has to be
:51:05. > :51:07.more than human rights abuses. The scale has to be such that it
:51:08. > :51:13.justifies taking military action without going to the UN for a
:51:14. > :51:17.resolution or if a UN resolution is impossible. So it has to be a very
:51:18. > :51:23.serious situation. I have to say, from what one has seen that is going
:51:24. > :51:28.on in northern Syria, that is a situation which has risen over a
:51:29. > :51:36.number of times over the past number of years. The ground may be there
:51:37. > :51:39.for taking such action. It has to be aimed at protecting the civilian
:51:40. > :51:44.population. It has not got to be aimed at trying to remove IS, it has
:51:45. > :51:49.to be with one specific purpose in mind which has to be providing
:51:50. > :51:54.protection. What you do has to be able to be justified by showing you
:51:55. > :52:01.are achieving that particular aim. So it would be limited? David
:52:02. > :52:07.Cameron and President Obama have said they need to defeat Isis? It
:52:08. > :52:13.would have to be limited to achieving a particular end. Not to
:52:14. > :52:17.the end of specifically defeating Isis, although one does have to bear
:52:18. > :52:23.in mind that in view of Isis' behaviour, it is a bit difficult to
:52:24. > :52:33.see how the 1 is not inextricably entangled with the other. Legally
:52:34. > :52:39.the aim would have to be protecting the civilian public, not to go in
:52:40. > :52:44.and get rid of ices because it is a threat here as well? The aim would
:52:45. > :52:53.have to be preventing ices from murdering minorities. Key think it
:52:54. > :52:57.will be problematic for David Cameron to launch air strikes in
:52:58. > :53:03.Syria against Isis? It depends what you mean by problematic. In terms of
:53:04. > :53:07.getting the House of Commons to endorse it, I detect a big shift
:53:08. > :53:13.from the vote on Syria a year ago which he lost. You can measure it
:53:14. > :53:18.with people like Ming Campbell and others saying in some circumstances
:53:19. > :53:22.he would be willing to say he would consider military action. I think
:53:23. > :53:28.the political obstacle is not as steep as was just over year ago. The
:53:29. > :53:35.practical one is, it is interesting hearing Dominik explain the legal
:53:36. > :53:40.argument. There are not many parallels with the Iraq war in 2003.
:53:41. > :53:44.One is Tony Blair. The legal argument is we want to get rid of
:53:45. > :53:48.the weapons of mass destruction but in doing so Sadam Hussein would
:53:49. > :53:54.fall. There was an endless debate about it. Now we are saying it would
:53:55. > :54:00.be humanitarian crusade in Syria but as a result of that, would IS be
:54:01. > :54:06.able to survive. The practical issue will be that voters will expect the
:54:07. > :54:11.consequences to be the collapse of a vile regime. I am not sure how that
:54:12. > :54:18.comes about as a result of this action. Should the UK have
:54:19. > :54:23.intervened in Syria last summer? That was a matter for Parliament.
:54:24. > :54:28.The legal basis was President Assad's use of chemical weapons. The
:54:29. > :54:34.justification was to prevent him using chemical weapons, not to
:54:35. > :54:38.remove the regime. America's top military officer yesterday raised
:54:39. > :54:41.the point of ground troops being involved. Is that something you
:54:42. > :54:47.think Britain should consider at all? That again is a policy choice.
:54:48. > :54:52.Whether you are using aircraft to drop bombs or you have boots on the
:54:53. > :54:55.ground, in legal terms, it does not make a significant difference. They
:54:56. > :55:00.are both aggressive acts or acts with a purpose. It is for the Prime
:55:01. > :55:04.Minister to determine how best we should go about this. He has made it
:55:05. > :55:09.clear that the idea of putting ground troops into Iraq and northern
:55:10. > :55:11.Syria is not an option he is currently considering and there are
:55:12. > :55:16.perfectly good and valid policy reasons why he should not go down
:55:17. > :55:21.that road. Ultimately, this problem is only going to be solved in the
:55:22. > :55:25.medium to long-term when the people, who are there, take action to
:55:26. > :55:28.restore their civil society and get rid of individuals who are behaving
:55:29. > :55:31.appallingly. Dominic Grieve, thank you.
:55:32. > :55:34.It was in the summer of 2012 that the Yes Scotland and Better Together
:55:35. > :55:37.Now, after more than two years of debates, leafleting,
:55:38. > :55:39.white papers, devolution offers, and the occasional egging,
:55:40. > :55:43.It all comes down to the votes cast tomorrow - let's look back at the
:55:44. > :56:10.We owe the Scottish people something that is fair, legal and decisive.
:56:11. > :56:17.Ladies and gentlemen, that was quite a launch. Let's make sure it is
:56:18. > :56:21.quite a campaign. Thank you. Chairing this campaign is one of the
:56:22. > :56:28.most important things I have ever done in politics. On Thursday the
:56:29. > :56:31.18th of September 2014, we will hold Scotland's referendum. An historic
:56:32. > :56:36.day where the people will decide Scotland's future.
:56:37. > :56:39.I think the first debate should be between the First Minister of
:56:40. > :56:42.Scotland who wants independence and the Prime Minister of the UK who is
:56:43. > :56:52.trying to stop Scotland getting independents. Thank you very, very
:56:53. > :56:54.much and Scotland, stay with us. I could not, as Chancellor, recommend
:56:55. > :56:58.that we could share the pound could not, as Chancellor, recommend
:56:59. > :57:03.an independent Scotland. Scotland could not keep the pound if it
:57:04. > :57:07.chooses independence. It is clear to me that a currency union would not
:57:08. > :57:12.work for Scotland if it wasn't dependent. It would not work for the
:57:13. > :57:17.rest of the UK. We are in a campaign. It is the interests of Ed
:57:18. > :57:21.Balls and Danny Alexander to talk up what they describe as uncertainty.
:57:22. > :57:30.We are making the case for something which is right for the rest of the
:57:31. > :57:36.UK as well. Any eight-year-old can tell you the flag of the country,
:57:37. > :57:40.the capital of the country and the currency. I assume the flag is the
:57:41. > :57:46.Saltire, I assume the capital will be Edinburgh but you cannot tell us
:57:47. > :57:51.what the currency is. They cannot stop us using the pound. The most
:57:52. > :57:56.important revelation in the debate this evening. We want Scotland to
:57:57. > :58:09.win the Yeses vote to separate from England. I will nominate David
:58:10. > :58:16.Cameron. This weekend poll put the Yeses campaign slightly ahead for
:58:17. > :58:20.the first time. We are proposing that we agree a programme that the
:58:21. > :58:24.Scottish Parliament should have increased powers. Tomorrow, the
:58:25. > :58:28.right place to be is not in Westminster at Prime Minister 's
:58:29. > :58:34.questions, it is in Scotland. We have the entire Westminster
:58:35. > :58:44.Establishment in a total panic. If you are fed up with the effing
:58:45. > :58:48.Tories, give them a kicking, this is totally different from a general
:58:49. > :58:49.election. It is about the next century.
:58:50. > :58:51.That's all for today. Thanks to our guests.
:58:52. > :58:54.The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:55. > :58:57.I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the