:00:09. > :00:37.THEME MUSIC .
:00:38. > :00:43.On the day the people of Scotland head to the polls to determine
:00:44. > :00:50.They're expected to vote in record numbers.
:00:51. > :00:52.Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling led the way this morning to
:00:53. > :00:54.the polling booths, where they face one simple question.
:00:55. > :00:56.Should Scotland be an independent country?
:00:57. > :01:02.The US House of Representatives has approved
:01:03. > :01:06.President Obama's plan to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels.
:01:07. > :01:12.But is the international community doing enough to drive back IS?
:01:13. > :01:15.Is the House of Lords getting too big for it's boots?
:01:16. > :01:22.It's certainly not getting any smaller and there are calls
:01:23. > :01:26.And I'm a politician, get me out of here.
:01:27. > :01:36.We'll be asking what it must be like governing from the Aussie outback.
:01:37. > :01:39.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration former
:01:40. > :01:41.Foreign Office Minister, and former Deputy Secretary General of the
:01:42. > :01:49.First to Scotland, where 97% of those elligible to vote
:01:50. > :01:55.That's 4.3 million registered voters.
:01:56. > :01:58.The turnout is expected to be much higher than a general election.
:01:59. > :02:01.We don't talk issues on voting day but let's cross to the BBC's
:02:02. > :02:09.Assistant Political Editor, Norman Smith in Glasgow to talk logistics.
:02:10. > :02:18.Norman, have we seen early signs yet of this predicted big turnout? I
:02:19. > :02:21.think we have actually, Andrew, certainly if you think of most
:02:22. > :02:26.general elections, early doors in the morning they are usually one man
:02:27. > :02:30.and a dog at the polling station. The polling stations here have had
:02:31. > :02:34.queues outside them really, not all of them, but quite a lot have had
:02:35. > :02:38.queueing outside them from early in the morning which would suggest yes,
:02:39. > :02:43.this indeed will be a huge turnout. The weather is you know, dry and
:02:44. > :02:47.mild, although frankly searches the intensity of the debate even if it
:02:48. > :02:54.was snowing and hailstorms people would still go to the polls! If you
:02:55. > :02:58.look at the postal vote, something like 80% of those has been
:02:59. > :03:03.returned. In Edinburgh, the City Council are saying 89% of postal
:03:04. > :03:07.votes have been returned. We are on course I think for the biggest
:03:08. > :03:14.turnout possibly we have seen in any election in the UK or Scotland. What
:03:15. > :03:19.we are seeing today, frankly, is an extraordinarily, the huge effort by
:03:20. > :03:22.both sides to try to make sure they get the vote out. Such is the
:03:23. > :03:33.closeness of the polls, this may well hinge on which side is better
:03:34. > :03:37.able to get out of the vote. The no say they have volunteers in every
:03:38. > :03:40.single council ward, the yes campaign say they have 20,000
:03:41. > :03:45.volunteers knocking on doors and helping people to the polling
:03:46. > :03:50.stations. There is an old quote which goes along the lines of, in
:03:51. > :03:53.politics, ideas is important but organisation is even more
:03:54. > :03:57.important. Translated into the modern context this means, is that
:03:58. > :04:00.you got to get your vote out. At the end of the day that could actually
:04:01. > :04:10.be the deciding factor despite the months of the arguments. The polling
:04:11. > :04:17.stations will close at ten o'clock, if they are still queueing, have
:04:18. > :04:20.they made any provision for that? If you turn of the last minute and you
:04:21. > :04:24.are in the queue, you are OK, you will still get to vote, it is not
:04:25. > :04:28.like the shutter comes down at ten o'clock and you miss your
:04:29. > :04:31.once-in-a-lifetime chance. You'll still get the vote. In terms of the
:04:32. > :04:37.results, they will start coming in from about two o'clock. The real
:04:38. > :04:41.benchmark moment, I think though, will not come until very late into
:04:42. > :04:48.the early morning, probably between 5-6 AM. We are expecting the results
:04:49. > :04:50.shortly after 6am, that is what accounting officer said. Five
:04:51. > :04:56.o'clock seems to me, if you are wanting to know when you should get
:04:57. > :05:01.up, I would get up at 5am. At five, we will get Edinburgh and Glasgow,
:05:02. > :05:06.together they make up about 20% of the vote. Glasgow may well be the
:05:07. > :05:10.critical factor. Whether the Labour vote in Glasgow holds up already
:05:11. > :05:17.goes to the Nationalists. We should get a result somewhere between 6-7.
:05:18. > :05:21.All sorts of wrinkles, there could be recounts and problems getting the
:05:22. > :05:29.votes out from the islands, it could be later. We want people to join us
:05:30. > :05:37.at 10:40pm, on BBC1 tonight, stick with us for the direction. LAUGHTER
:05:38. > :05:41.-- for the duration. Results will be declared in the 32 local districts
:05:42. > :05:46.in Scotland, a bit like a general election in that sense. Explain this
:05:47. > :05:49.to me: There can be a recount in each of the districts but there
:05:50. > :05:57.cannot be a recount on the total, is that right? If we have a result
:05:58. > :06:02.which says one side gets, I don't know, 49.5% of the vote and the
:06:03. > :06:07.other side gets 50.5%, and everybody says that's very close, let's
:06:08. > :06:13.recount. It's too late. One we get to the final numbers it is too late.
:06:14. > :06:21.You can only recount at the local level, only at the local level can
:06:22. > :06:24.you have the recount. You cannot do it on a national level, they would
:06:25. > :06:28.be done at the local authority level, it does not matter how close
:06:29. > :06:34.it is, even if it is decided by one vote that is the outcome. One vote
:06:35. > :06:38.could determine the future of Scotland and the United Kingdom. It
:06:39. > :06:41.will determine the future of the United Kingdom because there will be
:06:42. > :06:46.massive constitutional change, whatever happens. We will have to
:06:47. > :06:51.unpick pensions and welfare and defence, oil, debt, massive
:06:52. > :06:54.upheaval. With the No vote, there will be massive constitutional
:06:55. > :06:58.change too, it is hard to see how the English, Welsh and Northern
:06:59. > :07:04.Irish will say that's fine, you have more powers and we will sit and do
:07:05. > :07:08.nothing. Thank you for joining us try and grab some sleep before this
:07:09. > :07:11.evening. CHUCKLES I don't think there will be much
:07:12. > :07:17.sleep. No. CHUCKLES The former Labour Minister Alan
:07:18. > :07:21.Johnson has suggested Ed Miliband should have spent time doing
:07:22. > :07:24.something else before entering politics, so the question
:07:25. > :07:25.for today is: At the end of the show Mark
:07:26. > :07:38.will give us the correct answer. Overnight the US House of
:07:39. > :07:43.Representatives approved President Obama's plan to train and arm the
:07:44. > :07:46.moderate Syrian opposition taking It comes a week after the President
:07:47. > :07:51.outlined his new, broader strategy to combat the
:07:52. > :07:54.militant group which is operating Here the Foreign Secretary,
:07:55. > :08:01.Philip Hammond, has said the UK will play a "leading role" in the
:08:02. > :08:08.international effort to combat IS. What that role will be, is not yet
:08:09. > :08:13.clear. So far the US has carried out
:08:14. > :08:16.174 airstrikes across Iraq. The action has helped halt
:08:17. > :08:21.the advance of IS militants: in August Iraqi army and
:08:22. > :08:24.Kurdish Peshmerga forces, assisted by American airstrikes,
:08:25. > :08:26.recaptured the Mosul dam The UK has
:08:27. > :08:34.so far sent ?1.6 million worth of weapons and ammunition to
:08:35. > :08:37.the Kurdish Peshmerga forces who However, one British hostage,
:08:38. > :08:43.David Haines, has already been Another, Alan Henning,
:08:44. > :08:47.has also been threatened. Australia has also said it will send
:08:48. > :09:00.600 military personnel, including special forces troops,
:09:01. > :09:05.and eight fighter jets. Overnight President Obama won
:09:06. > :09:08.congressional approval for a 500 million dollar plan to arm
:09:09. > :09:13.the moderate Syrian opposition. But the president reiterated that he
:09:14. > :09:15.would not be committing US boots A little earlier I spoke to the
:09:16. > :09:24.Conservative MP Adam Holloway via Skype, so apologies for the quality
:09:25. > :09:27.of the line. He is on a fact-finding mission in northern Iraq. I asked
:09:28. > :09:39.him if he had seen the effects of So what the air strikes have done is
:09:40. > :09:45.they've made it impossible now for IS to form up together and hammer
:09:46. > :09:49.down the road to attack cities. Because it is too dangerous for them
:09:50. > :09:56.to congregate. They have been very important. Even so, 45 ministers not
:09:57. > :10:02.sound very far away, you must have spoken to residents of Irbil, how
:10:03. > :10:08.imminent do they think the threat still is? With my colleagues I went
:10:09. > :10:13.down to the front line a couple of days ago. It is very quiet down
:10:14. > :10:17.there. You can imagine. The Peshmerga, the local Kurdish
:10:18. > :10:21.forces, they are equipped for fighting in mountains, they are not
:10:22. > :10:24.equipped for fighting on the flat ground which is the front line. So
:10:25. > :10:31.they don't have the long-range weapons yet. So those air strikes
:10:32. > :10:36.are very, very important. As one Peshmerga commander put it to me, he
:10:37. > :10:43.said, we woke up one morning to find that we had a 1000 kilometre front
:10:44. > :10:49.line with the most dangerous organisation in the world, they need
:10:50. > :10:55.help. Do they need more weapons and ammunition than is being sent to
:10:56. > :11:01.them currently? There is a lot coming in. Overnight at the airport
:11:02. > :11:05.planes were arriving. Certainly on the front of line where we were at,
:11:06. > :11:10.the commander told us he had not got any additional weapons. But look,
:11:11. > :11:18.that is about defending the Kurdish areas. But this is not a military
:11:19. > :11:23.problem. This is a political problem... You know, we imagine that
:11:24. > :11:29.the answer to a problem like this, is just to bomb everyone, it's not.
:11:30. > :11:35.ISIS have not appeared and taken over this chunk of Iraq by accident,
:11:36. > :11:43.they have taken over by the -- because the Sunni groups were fed up
:11:44. > :11:46.with the Shia government in Baghdad. When people came to Mosul,
:11:47. > :11:52.a lot of the locals felt it was better living with ISIS than it was
:11:53. > :11:59.living with the Shias, the only difference is that ISIS would not
:12:00. > :12:03.let them smoke. What response should the UK Government to take on is it
:12:04. > :12:11.time to sign up for air strikes with the Americans in Iraq and Syria?
:12:12. > :12:21.Absolutely not, this is not a military problem, this is a
:12:22. > :12:26.political problem. Australia is now deploying military capabilities. We
:12:27. > :12:27.will be joined by a representative of the Australian government in a
:12:28. > :12:43.moment. Mark Malloch Brown. Mr Obama talking
:12:44. > :12:47.about arming the "moderate" Syrian Rebels, Hillary Clinton wanted him
:12:48. > :12:55.to do that in 2012 when it was clear who the moderates were. He didn't do
:12:56. > :12:58.it. Isn't he two years too late? It is playing catch-up but it doesn't
:12:59. > :13:02.mean it's not worth doing, and there's a real need to build a
:13:03. > :13:07.moderate middle. But not much to play with here, I mean, too little
:13:08. > :13:11.too late probably. A lot of people will feel because the moderates have
:13:12. > :13:15.been on the defensive, they are the secular Rebels rather than the
:13:16. > :13:18.moderates, they've been on the defensive the two years. They've
:13:19. > :13:22.taken a lot of defeat at the hands of the Islamists. You give them
:13:23. > :13:29.these weapons and once again they could easily end up in the hands of
:13:30. > :13:32.the Islamists. That's the real risk and you will find from the officials
:13:33. > :13:37.briefing Congress, these weapons will be put in carefully and slowly
:13:38. > :13:42.to make sure that they are going into reliable hands. But when we see
:13:43. > :13:46.that ISIS's fighting power comes from weapons that they captured from
:13:47. > :13:50.the Iraqis, American weapons, this is a real risk. But for the
:13:51. > :13:56.president, the alternative that somebody raised, that he made a deal
:13:57. > :14:01.with President Assad to combine to take on ISIS, was a much less
:14:02. > :14:07.palatable option. It would be even more end raging to Sunni opinion in
:14:08. > :14:13.the region and it would have been a U-turn which would have been an
:14:14. > :14:16.acceptable for Western opinion. -- an acceptable.
:14:17. > :14:26., we become the -- isn't there the danger that we now become the air
:14:27. > :14:34.force for the Peshmerga forces and any other forces on the ground? Yes,
:14:35. > :14:40.this is what we may end up doing. Is this wise? I think it is
:14:41. > :14:45.inevitable, Andrew, because nobody else is coming forward to do this.
:14:46. > :14:53.The Arab world has affected their forces... Why don't they use them?
:14:54. > :14:57.-- effective air forces. I would agree, it is time you say, the Arab
:14:58. > :15:02.world, don't you care what is happening in your region? These
:15:03. > :15:05.people are a greater threat to the national security of the Arab world
:15:06. > :15:10.than they are to the United Kingdom and the United States. Yet they seem
:15:11. > :15:14.to be implying, let us do it again, that's exactly playing into the
:15:15. > :15:18.hands of ISIS, that is what they want us to do. We then take the lead
:15:19. > :15:23.in the air and on the ground and ISIS will present that as the evil
:15:24. > :15:43.West against the Muslim world which is their intention.
:15:44. > :15:48.Qatar has some undercover involvement with ISIS, the United
:15:49. > :15:52.Arab Emirates is different and I am sure we will see some kind of
:15:53. > :15:58.support. In that sense, to give President Obama and John Kerry their
:15:59. > :16:03.due, they are trying to do this the way the first Gulf War was done and
:16:04. > :16:07.not the second Iraq conflict. They are trying to build a coalition of
:16:08. > :16:11.the willing, the secretary has been to the Middle East and has talked to
:16:12. > :16:15.these governments, tried to get some kind of commitment from them. I
:16:16. > :16:21.think the Americans understand the issue as much as we do. But if you
:16:22. > :16:25.are the UAE, or Qatar, you don't really want to get involved, there
:16:26. > :16:32.is no terrorism in these countries. They stay out of things, they are
:16:33. > :16:35.prospering. Two of the richest city states, Joe Hart and Dubai, and Abu
:16:36. > :16:50.Dhabi, -- These are very small states which
:16:51. > :16:57.already feel quite beleaguered in their neighbourhood with Iran just
:16:58. > :17:02.across the strait from them. And, frankly, they cannot survive growing
:17:03. > :17:06.turbulence in the region. They can't be kind of isolated islands from
:17:07. > :17:10.this. So, you are right, they hate to do something which would import
:17:11. > :17:18.terrorism into their states, but equally, theyp can't allow the world
:17:19. > :17:22.and themselves to stand idly by as ISIS consolidates itself. I would
:17:23. > :17:30.suggest to you, that it is unconceivable that the UAE or Saudis
:17:31. > :17:34.or Qatar would deploy ground troops against Isil It is unlikely but
:17:35. > :17:37.shouldn't be inconceivable because frankly, they need to start thinking
:17:38. > :17:41.about how they are going to stop this huge problem that is going to
:17:42. > :17:46.contaminate the Middle East. It cannot just be us. The public, you
:17:47. > :17:49.know, our public here, have no appetite for us putting ground
:17:50. > :17:54.troops in. Neither has the Government. But, in the end, perhaps
:17:55. > :17:58.we should never, ever say - we will never, ever do anything. When I
:17:59. > :18:02.useded to negotiate, as Mark used, to we would never, ever give away a
:18:03. > :18:06.card that we hold in our hand easily. I will never say that we
:18:07. > :18:10.would never put ground troops in on the ground because actually, we
:18:11. > :18:13.might have to, if we were directly threatened, Andrew. This is he a us,
:18:14. > :18:19.but as a military man, would you like to give us your assessment of
:18:20. > :18:23.the fighting capabilities of the UAE, Saudi and Qatar forces? Not
:18:24. > :18:27.particularly, but you are going to press me so the answer is, not
:18:28. > :18:32.great. So we cannot put too much faith in them. No. We are down to
:18:33. > :18:39.arming the permother capital gains tax which does know how to fight,
:18:40. > :18:43.particularly if they have modern weapons -- the Peshmerga.
:18:44. > :18:49.And to hoping that the Americans can do something to revive and put some
:18:50. > :18:53.steel into the Iraqi Army. Exactly and that's what we are hoping to do
:18:54. > :18:56.and this is' what American and British intentions will be. I think
:18:57. > :19:00.it is important, Adam Holloway's point in the interview, in which he
:19:01. > :19:04.said the ultimate solution is a political solution. We have to look
:19:05. > :19:06.at the military as containing the problem, recovering the major cities
:19:07. > :19:14.back into Government hands but then it is - how do you reenfranchise the
:19:15. > :19:21.sunnies? How do you remove their sense of grievance which lets them
:19:22. > :19:27.breed movements like ISIS. But essentially ly a sunny-Shia civil
:19:28. > :19:39.war. -- a Sunni-Shia civil war? I think it is generational. It took 30
:19:40. > :19:43.years in Europe. This is producing religious-based fanatic terrorist
:19:44. > :19:46.organisations because their religious majority, their fellow
:19:47. > :19:49.co-religionists, feel they are excluded from the politics of the
:19:50. > :19:54.countries where they aring living. So that, is only something, that
:19:55. > :19:59.this region can do, by creating much more inclusive, much more
:20:00. > :20:04.accountable, much more democratic government structures than this
:20:05. > :20:07.strange mixture of authoritarianism and religious exclusionism that we
:20:08. > :20:12.have at the moment. But we are seeing the rewriting of the Middle
:20:13. > :20:16.East map. The Middle East map was rewritten during the First World War
:20:17. > :20:20.and it was implemented. It has broadly stayed like that. These are
:20:21. > :20:26.the boundaries since then. It's now been redrawn again. It is going to
:20:27. > :20:30.be redrawn by forces on the ground. Undoubted youly Undoubted ly, that's
:20:31. > :20:33.why I say we are in this for a generation. That's again, why these
:20:34. > :20:37.air strikes need to be put into context. They need to be short and
:20:38. > :20:40.decisive. You do not want a generation-long commitment of
:20:41. > :20:46.Western Forces resolving something that only Arabs can solve for
:20:47. > :20:49.themselves. Are we going, "we", Britain, going to join the Americans
:20:50. > :20:57.and probably now the Australians in air strikes? Probably. We may have
:20:58. > :21:01.no choice. We don't want to, but we may have no choice.
:21:02. > :21:06.Is there enough spoer from MPs? Doer support. I think it is quite a lot
:21:07. > :21:10.of support from MPs. From both sides of the House. I'm talking about
:21:11. > :21:13.friends in the Labour Party and on the backbenches. But the problem is,
:21:14. > :21:18.we don't want to go further. What did you make of the remarks of the
:21:19. > :21:23.former Attorney-General, Dominic Grieve, now a backbench colleague of
:21:24. > :21:28.yours on the Conservative side, who hold Jo yesterday that any mission
:21:29. > :21:34.had to be limited to protecting civilians, not removing IS? That's
:21:35. > :21:38.his view. We might have to have a different view to that, but that's
:21:39. > :21:44.Dominic's view. I deeply respect that. He is a good bloke. But you
:21:45. > :21:48.don't share it, do you? I don't. My view is that if we are about to see
:21:49. > :21:52.a major advance, we may well have to take them on from the air.
:21:53. > :21:56.His implication was it wouldn't be legal to do that, it would have to
:21:57. > :22:01.be framed with a humanitarian view with limited air strikes to protect
:22:02. > :22:05.the civil ian population -- civilian population, contain, not defeat.
:22:06. > :22:09.Well if you can do, that great. But in the end when you have these
:22:10. > :22:22.people burying hundreds of people, in the hand. That's humanitarian
:22:23. > :22:25.with me When they are attacking ISIS in in Iraqi territory, all we need
:22:26. > :22:30.is the invitation of the government. Syria he was talking bflt You have
:22:31. > :22:36.more of a point there in Syrian. The Syrian Government has tow invite you
:22:37. > :22:38.-- Syrian Government who has to invite you in or you have to go to
:22:39. > :22:49.the UN. And we don't talk to them. Today, over 100 British Muslim
:22:50. > :22:51.imams, organisations and individuals have signed a statement calling for
:22:52. > :22:54.the release of the British hostage They also express their "horror and
:22:55. > :22:59.revulsion" at the killing of another hostage, David Haines, and call
:23:00. > :23:01.the group "un-Islamic fanatics". One of those who signed up to the
:23:02. > :23:13.letter, Muddassar Ahmed, he joins us Why, at this particular time, as Mr
:23:14. > :23:16.Henning was taken captive in December last year? It wasn't made
:23:17. > :23:20.public. People weren't aware of the issue. I thought the family were
:23:21. > :23:24.keeping it - wanted a slightly lower profile on the issue but I thought
:23:25. > :23:27.it's an important step that this letter was eventually written and
:23:28. > :23:34.pulled together. I think it represents a very wide range of
:23:35. > :23:40.British Muslim opinion Do you accept that wide range, though it may be,
:23:41. > :23:44.that it is not the kind of opinion that there is folks -- the folks at
:23:45. > :23:48.IS will have any interest in listening to? I don't know. I think
:23:49. > :23:52.one thing that's very important is that IS are spoking to in a
:23:53. > :23:57.terminology and a language they understand. I think what is
:23:58. > :24:00.interesting here is that the British Muslims that went with Alan to Syria
:24:01. > :24:05.and travelled with him, are the ones that are leading the calls for him
:24:06. > :24:08.to be released. I think it is interesting - of course it is not
:24:09. > :24:12.crystal clear how they will respond - but I don't suppose we will be
:24:13. > :24:17.able to ignore it easily. Should such robust statements not have come
:24:18. > :24:23.before so many young British Muslims went to join IS? I think that the -
:24:24. > :24:27.I think there have been statements before. I think a lot of work has
:24:28. > :24:30.been done by the Muslim community in Britain to ensure that young British
:24:31. > :24:33.Muslims don't go out there. It hasn't worked, has it? It is
:24:34. > :24:37.interesting. It has and it hasn't. It is interesting to see - we have
:24:38. > :24:41.been hearing reports that there are young British Muslims out there that
:24:42. > :24:44.want to come back, that realise they have made a mistake. Remember there
:24:45. > :24:48.was a huge effort by young British Muslims to go out and help the
:24:49. > :24:52.humanitarian aid in Syria and the fog of war, some young men made the
:24:53. > :24:56.decision to join IS. It is interesting and for me heartening to
:24:57. > :24:59.hear that some want to come back. We need to be prepared and open,
:25:00. > :25:05.because there is nothing more powerful than having a young British
:25:06. > :25:10.Muslim who is been out there, who is disenchanted and realised that ISIS
:25:11. > :25:15.has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims, to come back and tell the
:25:16. > :25:18.rest of us. If they are genuine. Well, that's something we need to
:25:19. > :25:24.figure out in due course. But, I think it may well be, but we need to
:25:25. > :25:27.be open to that responsibility. -- possibility. Do we have much
:25:28. > :25:32.evidence? Because it is almost taken, almost as an assumption, that
:25:33. > :25:36.the worst of the ones who are out there, have been radicalised by
:25:37. > :25:41.mosques or imams in Britain. Some of the backgrounds of the ones I have
:25:42. > :25:44.seen, would suggest that they are no better, really than gangsters, that
:25:45. > :25:49.they have not really had anything to do with the mosques or religion in
:25:50. > :25:57.Britain and they are simply now being offered a bigger, more grisly
:25:58. > :26:00.playing field for their gangsterism? I think that's riechlted you have
:26:01. > :26:05.think the the nail on the head. These young men going out there seem
:26:06. > :26:10.to be less motivated by Islam and more motivated by other reasons and
:26:11. > :26:13.perhaps some is linked to lower social economic backgrounds they are
:26:14. > :26:16.from and they are being attracted or disenp chanted by their and the to
:26:17. > :26:20.live here, so they are being attracted to go out there and fight
:26:21. > :26:23.in this certain way. I think that, you know, it is important that we
:26:24. > :26:26.find ways - that part of the solution here is finding long-term
:26:27. > :26:29.ways to bring these people and make them feel more part of British
:26:30. > :26:33.society as a whole. In the short term, we knead to be open to the
:26:34. > :26:36.fact that some have simply made a mistake and we need to be able to
:26:37. > :26:40.let them integrate normally back into society when they come back.
:26:41. > :26:46.What do you think now could be done? What is the single biggest thing we
:26:47. > :26:49.can do, now, to stop more young British Muslims going to join the
:26:50. > :26:52.terrorists? I think there is a couple of things. First of all, the
:26:53. > :26:56.letter that happened today is a great example of something positive,
:26:57. > :26:59.that shows that the vast majority of British Muslims are sick and tired
:27:00. > :27:03.of ISIS and are horrified, as everybody else is, by the crimes
:27:04. > :27:07.that they have committed and are about to commit. So, understanding
:27:08. > :27:11.those voices, encourages those voices to speak out more is one
:27:12. > :27:15.step. I think the other thing that might be helpful in this, is that
:27:16. > :27:20.not speaking to ISIS, in terms of the way they want us to address them
:27:21. > :27:23.- so, there is nothing Islamic about them, they are not a state. They
:27:24. > :27:30.don't have the backing of Islamic scholars in the region. In fact,
:27:31. > :27:34.what they have done, is they have destroyed centuries' old Islamic
:27:35. > :27:38.civilisation in Iraq. Everything about them is anti-Islamic. We need
:27:39. > :27:41.to frame it in that sense. Thank you for joining us and explaining the
:27:42. > :27:46.reasons hyped your statement today. As promised, we are joined by the
:27:47. > :27:48.Australian High Commissioner. He has fought his way through the London
:27:49. > :27:53.traffic. Welcome. Overnight in Australia we have been hearing about
:27:54. > :27:56.anti-terror raids, extensive anti-terror raids in Sydney and
:27:57. > :28:02.Brisbane. Can you bring us up-to-speed? Well, about 600 police
:28:03. > :28:06.mounted some raids in a variety of suburbs, mainly in Sydney but also
:28:07. > :28:12.Brisbane and detained around 15 people and arrested - and had one
:28:13. > :28:17.person charged. This is tied up with concerns that the police have had
:28:18. > :28:20.that there could be a terrorist operation, or a criminal operation
:28:21. > :28:25.in Australia which could include beheading. And there had been some
:28:26. > :28:34.links. Attempts to behead in Australia? In Australia, yes. So,
:28:35. > :28:38.potentially a random attack - as no not identifying a specific person,
:28:39. > :28:42.but randomly choosing somebody or several people and killing them, and
:28:43. > :28:50.possibly killing them by beheading them. Do we think this is linked to
:28:51. > :28:54.the events in Iraq/Syria, where we know with some British Muslims there
:28:55. > :29:00.are some American Muslims in there, too. We think we have about 60
:29:01. > :29:04.fighters as part of Isil in Syria and Iraq. And we think there are
:29:05. > :29:07.links with Isil, yes. Now Prime Minister Abbott has committed 600
:29:08. > :29:12.Australian troops, eight fighter jets to help combat ISIS in the
:29:13. > :29:17.region. Exactly what would their role be, can you tell us? It remains
:29:18. > :29:20.to be seen, because at this stage, the Americans haven't made anip
:29:21. > :29:26.final decisions on what they are going to do -- made any decisions on
:29:27. > :29:30.what they are going to do. We are not looking on boots on the ground
:29:31. > :29:35.to use the phrase. What would the troops be, if not boots on the
:29:36. > :29:39.ground? Some people would be there to provide support to the Air Force.
:29:40. > :29:46.To the Australian Air Force? Yes, to people like that. But Mr Abbott has
:29:47. > :29:50.said they may be called on "to disrupt and degrade." This is going
:29:51. > :29:54.to depend on how the Americans ultimately define the mission and we
:29:55. > :29:59.will have to be satisfied with the way they ha defined the mission. We
:30:00. > :30:04.went to get -- they have defined the mission. We want to get the assets
:30:05. > :30:08.ready in case there is a call for action on us. And we are making the
:30:09. > :30:13.call to America and other allies that we are prepared to shoulder the
:30:14. > :30:19.burden ourselves not leaving everything to the British and
:30:20. > :30:25.Americans. Is Australia a reliable ally? To America? We are reliable.
:30:26. > :30:28.You are close and getting closer. You have bought striker jets from
:30:29. > :30:35.America. I don't think we are buying as many as the UK, but if that's the
:30:36. > :30:39.definition of a close ally, is it? # Britain and Australia are both very
:30:40. > :30:44.close and reliable allies of the United States. The reason for that
:30:45. > :30:47.is that we have a common view, and common values and often common
:30:48. > :30:51.perspectives about what needs to be done. So we are different countries,
:30:52. > :30:55.we are Sovereign in our own rights but often come to the same
:30:56. > :31:01.conclusions. To be fair, all three of our countries know that Isil
:31:02. > :31:04.should not, over time, be allowed to control substantial slice of
:31:05. > :31:08.territory in the Middle East. That the Iraqi security forces, the
:31:09. > :31:15.Peshmerga have to be supported in rolling back Isil.
:31:16. > :31:22.Britain is going to follow in its footsteps? This is a great move and
:31:23. > :31:25.a necessary move from Australia, you have to put Australia's own
:31:26. > :31:30.interests, and Alexander would agree. Australia lives in a
:31:31. > :31:33.difficult region with a resurgent China, it is important for Australia
:31:34. > :31:42.that the US engages in the Pacific region and offers security, an
:31:43. > :31:49.alternative to China. The Americans have a new naval base just outside
:31:50. > :31:56.Darwin. We are not allowed to call it a naval base. If it looks like
:31:57. > :32:02.one it probably is. They are going to rotate troops. Marines. Last time
:32:03. > :32:08.I looked they were in the U.S. Navy. They are not being based there.
:32:09. > :32:13.There could be another one in Western Australia as well, the
:32:14. > :32:17.Americans are looking at... We haven't been looking at so much new
:32:18. > :32:22.American bases, but the Americans being able to deploy through
:32:23. > :32:30.Australia. Does Australian public opinion back what the Prime Minister
:32:31. > :32:33.has announced? I think it does, the Liberal party, Tony Abbott's party,
:32:34. > :32:37.and the Labour Party, the main opposition, support what the
:32:38. > :32:42.government is doing. The Green party does not but other than that, I
:32:43. > :32:47.think the mainstream public opinion supports it. We don't often get the
:32:48. > :32:52.High Commissioner on our programme, we don't want you to go. It is
:32:53. > :32:56.Joe's turnout. Now since we have the Australian
:32:57. > :32:59.High Commissioner here we thought we'd ask him why the Australian
:33:00. > :33:01.Prime Minister's gone walkabout. Tony Abbott this week decided to run
:33:02. > :33:20.his government from the outback. CHEERING
:33:21. > :33:22.In a remote pocket of the Northern Territory, at the mythological
:33:23. > :33:29.birthplace of the didgeridoo Tony Abbott sets to work. He's the seat
:33:30. > :33:33.of power to an half thousand miles from Parliament house Canberra to a
:33:34. > :33:40.Portakabin. -- two and a half thousand miles. Life under canvas is
:33:41. > :33:43.not cramping his leadership style. From his outback office he has
:33:44. > :33:50.deployed 600 Australian troops to the conflict in Iraq. The Prime
:33:51. > :33:53.Minister is making good on a promise to spend one week every year in a
:33:54. > :33:59.disadvantaged indigenous community. Living alongside these people he's
:34:00. > :34:06.taking part in schemes to tackle high rates of infant mortality, drug
:34:07. > :34:13.abuse, alcoholism and unemployment. Critics doubt that this makes little
:34:14. > :34:16.difference to his attitudes, but the Prime Minister can chalk up one win,
:34:17. > :34:20.school attendance was at a record high when he went to class.
:34:21. > :34:23.And the High Commissioner is still here, and we're joined also
:34:24. > :34:25.by the comedian, Mark Little, some viewers may remember him
:34:26. > :34:37.Welcome to the Daily Politics. That is what I remember, that is what I
:34:38. > :34:43.spent my university youth doing. It explains your degree. It was a
:34:44. > :34:49.social phenomenon. My degree in media studies.
:34:50. > :34:58.To the importance of this trip, why? Indigenous Australians are an
:34:59. > :35:03.important component of our country, it makes sense that Tony Abbott, as
:35:04. > :35:05.he did as opposition leader and health Minister, and as Prime
:35:06. > :35:10.Minister to meet with these communities and understand these
:35:11. > :35:13.communities, albeit a brief period of time, spending time with these
:35:14. > :35:20.communities and it is much appreciated. Appreciated by the
:35:21. > :35:24.community but it is unusual. In the modern Eire prime ministers have to
:35:25. > :35:29.get out among the diversity of their communities -- in odd and
:35:30. > :35:37.indigenous people at the first people. They've not had the respect
:35:38. > :35:40.they deserved over the last couple of centuries. Tony Abbott wants to
:35:41. > :35:45.have recognition of the indigenous people written into the
:35:46. > :35:48.constitution. It is going to be hard to get an agreement on the words but
:35:49. > :35:55.we have to get bipartisan agreement on it. Your impressions, the theory
:35:56. > :36:01.is, the Prime Minister is in the outback and it is a change of scene.
:36:02. > :36:04.You can almost see his PR team behind this, he has been one to put
:36:05. > :36:09.in his foot in it a lot over the past, he's clever at doing that,
:36:10. > :36:13.Tony Abbott. Recently he made a statement about the defining moment
:36:14. > :36:19.in Australian history which was the British coming and taking over and
:36:20. > :36:25.bringing civilisation to Australia. It was defining, whether it is
:36:26. > :36:33.positive or negative. How is that putting your foot in it? How did he
:36:34. > :36:37.put his foot in it? He said it was not settled, he said it was settled
:36:38. > :36:40.a little bit, because what is coming up in the referendum, the
:36:41. > :36:46.constitutional referendum, the indigenous people want more land
:36:47. > :36:51.rights, and treaty. Something you would back? I would totally back and
:36:52. > :36:55.it is hard-core in indigenous politics. What the wording will be
:36:56. > :36:59.in this, is trying to make it not, to not give the aboriginal treaty so
:37:00. > :37:05.they don't have any access, SA over their land. We will come back to the
:37:06. > :37:09.land rights because that's been a long-standing issue. Your point, it
:37:10. > :37:16.is a PR stunt. Do you admire him for doing it, it is not easy to do,
:37:17. > :37:21.physically, he is quite a he-man. It is like that it Putin, wrestling a
:37:22. > :37:27.bear, he's just going camping, as far as the Aussies are concerned,
:37:28. > :37:32.he's going camping! Have you done it? You have more nasty animals out
:37:33. > :37:38.there than the rest of the world put together. He has waved goodbye to
:37:39. > :37:43.soldiers that he has sent to the war in Iraq. It shows you politics is
:37:44. > :37:48.getting tougher and tougher no matter what you do. People say it is
:37:49. > :37:53.stunned, if you do the right thing, it is just a stunt you make a gaffe.
:37:54. > :37:59.To be honest with you, anybody who knows Tony Abbott, I'm not talking
:38:00. > :38:03.about observers and commentators, I know him very well. Anybody who
:38:04. > :38:07.knows him knows throughout his political career and prior to that
:38:08. > :38:13.he's been very committed to indigenous issues. He means it, when
:38:14. > :38:19.he goes out there to do this, that it's not to take your point... By
:38:20. > :38:25.the way personally I do not think it'll have any effect on the voters.
:38:26. > :38:31.But I do think it demonstrates... He has to minute, if he is going to
:38:32. > :38:37.keep on selling off Australia to the Chinese, he is going to have access
:38:38. > :38:40.to this important treaty. The aboriginal population appreciated,
:38:41. > :38:47.for them at least it's quite a thing to have the Prime Minister stay
:38:48. > :38:51.there for one week. It is, he's taken away the aboriginal
:38:52. > :38:54.commission, he has set himself up as the indigenous Prime Minister, he
:38:55. > :38:58.will look after it himself personally. Also women, use in
:38:59. > :39:01.charge of that as well. I don't know, there's something not quite
:39:02. > :39:08.right upstairs as far as I'm concerned. The Prime Minister of a
:39:09. > :39:12.country, he flip-flops around. Saying things like, he's not quite
:39:13. > :39:19.right upstairs, people can draw their own conclusion. How would you
:39:20. > :39:23.take that comment? I would leave that to the viewers. I would make
:39:24. > :39:28.this point, here is a man who was a Rhodes scholar, a deeply intelligent
:39:29. > :39:32.and thoughtful person. Who amongst other things wants to do something
:39:33. > :39:36.about indigenous disadvantage. By the way, it is a bit patronising to
:39:37. > :39:39.think that all indigenous people have one view, there are whole
:39:40. > :39:44.variety of political views among indigenous people and on this issue
:39:45. > :39:50.of the recognition in the constitution there are a variety of
:39:51. > :39:55.perspectives. Could you imagine another Australian politician doing
:39:56. > :40:01.this? I suppose I could, I am not saying that another politician would
:40:02. > :40:03.not do it, certainly, the fact Tony Abbott has done it means his
:40:04. > :40:09.successors will think we should do this as well. What about British
:40:10. > :40:15.politicians, not that we have the equivalent of the outback. The
:40:16. > :40:22.closest we have got is one day cabinet meetings away from London.
:40:23. > :40:26.Manchester, Liverpool! Just to square the circle, this man is quite
:40:27. > :40:30.hard right wing in his ideological views, but he's clearly a very
:40:31. > :40:34.compassionate man who believes involuntary is. When those fires in
:40:35. > :40:37.Australia, when he became Prime Minister they could not find him
:40:38. > :40:44.because he was doing his traditional Fire Fighting. -- he believes in the
:40:45. > :40:46.culture of volunteering. It is not unusual to have conservative
:40:47. > :40:52.politicians who combine this with a lot of personal compassion. I
:40:53. > :41:00.suspect he's one of those. He likes to get hands-on, because he's got
:41:01. > :41:05.some big issues, he needs to do his best. Thank you for joining us. .
:41:06. > :41:08.Now, what's it like being a member of an all-male,
:41:09. > :41:13.But if you want to know, and get the chance, ask David Cameron,
:41:14. > :41:19.Failing that, you could watch a new film, that's out tomorrow,
:41:20. > :41:35.The riot club. In a few years these boys will be very important. Or
:41:36. > :41:39.should I say the Bollington club. It started as wanting to write a piece
:41:40. > :41:45.about young wealthy people. I was first researching it for the theatre
:41:46. > :41:52.play in 2007, that is when the stories about the Bollington club
:41:53. > :41:55.were starting to surface. This is an opportunity to reconsider the type
:41:56. > :42:01.of person... The best and the brightest. And exclusive dining club
:42:02. > :42:05.at Oxford University, the club, which still exist today, was made
:42:06. > :42:11.famous because some Obama 's powerful politicians are former
:42:12. > :42:14.members. This movie is this woman's take on what the rich and most
:42:15. > :42:24.privileged elite could getting up to. Westminster, Eaton, Harrow, if
:42:25. > :42:28.you have to do. The film centres on one night of debauchery at a country
:42:29. > :42:33.pub where we see the young members of the club getting trashed and
:42:34. > :42:39.destroy everything in sight. Your play, Posh, was a huge hit going up
:42:40. > :42:44.to the 2010 election and now we are getting into the real campaign for
:42:45. > :42:47.the 2015 general election. What do you think, probably the two most
:42:48. > :42:51.powerful men in government, David Cameron the primary step, the
:42:52. > :42:58.Chancellor George Osborne, will make of this film considering they were
:42:59. > :43:03.in this club? They might take issue with what the film suggests. I hope
:43:04. > :43:07.they would enjoy the humour of it. Hopefully they would find it an
:43:08. > :43:09.entertaining ride although they would probably be required to come
:43:10. > :43:18.out afterwards and say it was dreadful. We have a portrait of...
:43:19. > :43:25.You cannot go through there. Laura Wade insists the work is not about
:43:26. > :43:32.today's politicians. We're not just offering you a club, I am offering
:43:33. > :43:35.you the future. It is the time. But questions of class and
:43:36. > :43:40.accountability and the issue of the privileged backgrounds of top Tory
:43:41. > :43:44.MPs are all put under the spotlight. It's a problem that has been
:43:45. > :43:46.discussed any number of times, that they are not necessarily
:43:47. > :43:51.representative of the rest of society and people who have been
:43:52. > :43:54.through a public school upbringing and straight into Oxford and
:43:55. > :43:58.Westminster, how much do they really understand? If they don't have that
:43:59. > :44:05.knowledge, what efforts are they making to get it? And obviously the
:44:06. > :44:08.film is dealing with a very small number of characters. It is not at
:44:09. > :44:12.all attempting to say all public school boys are like that, that
:44:13. > :44:17.everybody at Oxford is like that. It asks the question. It's time for you
:44:18. > :44:27.to leave. CHUCKLES And the Conservative MP, David Amess
:44:28. > :44:35.joins us now from College Green. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do
:44:36. > :44:43.you think films like this will stoke this image of arrogant posh boys,
:44:44. > :44:48.the image that your fellow MP Nadine Dorey 's referred to as David
:44:49. > :44:53.Cameron and George Osborne? Macro no, I don't think it will have any
:44:54. > :45:03.effect at all. Most people have never heard of this club. Perhaps
:45:04. > :45:07.less about the club, and more about the image, the posh image of certain
:45:08. > :45:11.sections of politicians who do not really represent the public at
:45:12. > :45:17.large, is that not an issue for the Conservatives?
:45:18. > :45:23.The reason I initiated this trawl of colleagues with working class
:45:24. > :45:26.backgrounds is I got fed up with people suggesting we are all posh
:45:27. > :45:31.and come from wealthy backgrounds. If you ask me where the real wealth
:45:32. > :45:35.and poshness comes from is now on the Labour and liberal benches. I
:45:36. > :45:38.have identified up to 50 of my colleagues who have working class
:45:39. > :45:42.backgrounds and roots. Many have remarkable stories. I think their
:45:43. > :45:45.experiences add a great deal to the national debate in Westminster.
:45:46. > :45:48.Right, but is the reason that they don't come to the fore and they are
:45:49. > :45:52.not highlighted is because the backgrounds of a lot of senior
:45:53. > :45:54.figures and I take your point in the Labour Party, too, but within the
:45:55. > :45:57.Conservative Party, half of Conservative MPs went to private
:45:58. > :46:01.schools, many of the Cabinet went to Oxford and Cambridge and many are
:46:02. > :46:06.very wealthy. That obviously reinforces that image? Well, you
:46:07. > :46:16.see, this is a complete misnomer. Is it? One in six of my colleagues have
:46:17. > :46:21.a working class background. Look at Patrick McLaughlin's background and
:46:22. > :46:27.Sajit's background. He arrived in the with a pound. When they read
:46:28. > :46:30.this, others have had a bath in a tin bath. Half of these colleagues
:46:31. > :46:33.seemed to be hosed down in the street. They have remarkable
:46:34. > :46:37.backgrounds and have gone on to hold high office. Right but look at...
:46:38. > :46:40.Their backgrounds are being misrepresented. Their backgrounds
:46:41. > :46:43.may not have been misrepresented but are they overwhelmed by the
:46:44. > :46:49.backgrounds of David Cameron, of Boris Johnson, of George Osborne and
:46:50. > :46:53.other old etonians? I'm just putting it to you. Rightly or wrongly, that
:46:54. > :47:00.there are many of the advisors, even at number ten who are also from a
:47:01. > :47:04.similar elite clique and this is the top of the party? Well, the issue of
:47:05. > :47:08.advisors, I haven't got enormous knowledge of but in my lifetime.
:47:09. > :47:12.Winston Churchill, very posh background, but then you go on to
:47:13. > :47:19.Margaret Thatcher and to John Major, working class background. I don't
:47:20. > :47:23.think it much matters. No, but has it reverted to privately-educated
:47:24. > :47:31.old eye tonians, even if -- etonians, even if the numbers aren't
:47:32. > :47:35.there but do they have disproportionate influence in terms
:47:36. > :47:38.of the image of the party? I think they are given too much publicity.
:47:39. > :47:41.The public are not concerned with the background of the politicians,
:47:42. > :47:45.it is whether or not they govern effective. I don't have a hang-up
:47:46. > :47:50.because I have a working class background and I shouldn't think
:47:51. > :47:56.that David Cameron has a backhang-up because he has a come if for tab
:47:57. > :48:00.background. It is whether or not who is chosen to govern
:48:01. > :48:02.background. It is whether or not who sense to experience well. I think
:48:03. > :48:05.that's what the Conservative Party has. Are you worried about the
:48:06. > :48:08.timing of this film? There are obviously some of your colleagues
:48:09. > :48:14.who are worried about t in the run-up to the 2015 election. A
:48:15. > :48:19.fellow Conservative MP, says this looks like revenge for George
:48:20. > :48:24.Osborne cutting film test value subsidies? I'm in the worried. It'll
:48:25. > :48:29.probably just be like the Chelsea reality proximity not accurate, fan
:48:30. > :48:33.it is acy. I don't think it'll do any damage whatsoever. If anyone
:48:34. > :48:38.wants to make a film about working class Conservatives, I'll love a
:48:39. > :48:44.part. We'll give them your number if we get any calls. Mark Malloch
:48:45. > :48:48.Brown, you were educated at Marlborough College and Cambridge.
:48:49. > :48:52.Is the MP of Conservative MPs disproportionate in your mind? It
:48:53. > :48:56.wasn't around the Cabinet table I served on. There were a couple of us
:48:57. > :49:00.who had public school backgrounds. To me, this whole issue is tragic.
:49:01. > :49:05.There is no other country in the world where you could make a movie
:49:06. > :49:09.like this which would resonate. Will it resonate? I think it will. You
:49:10. > :49:14.have to look at the debates in Scotland during the referendum, this
:49:15. > :49:20.ideal of an elite ruling them from London. What about Harvard, they
:49:21. > :49:26.have not made a move have I about t but the club that George Bush was
:49:27. > :49:30.part of in Harvard often features. Yale There are lots of private clubs
:49:31. > :49:34.but they are not in a sense represented an elite out of touch
:49:35. > :49:40.group in the way that is suggested here. In fact those Yale Secret
:49:41. > :49:45.Societies have pretty much lost their footing nowadays, I
:49:46. > :49:47.understand. It is unfortunate because I'm perfectly willing to
:49:48. > :49:53.accept and believe that David Cameron is governing not because of
:49:54. > :49:57.his education but in he sees, as the best interests of the country but
:49:58. > :50:00.this is cutting away at his legitimacy and authority and
:50:01. > :50:06.frankly, sclas a big drag on this country. Whatever -- class is a dig
:50:07. > :50:14.drag. Whatever your view. I think it is olding back our GDP a percentagep
:50:15. > :50:20.point a year. We are so preoccupied with this history. It is really
:50:21. > :50:24.disappointing. Well obviously the last thing you want is for your
:50:25. > :50:30.colleagues to be out of touch with voters? From 1997 to 2010 we had a
:50:31. > :50:33.Labour Prime Minister with a really posh background and another Labour
:50:34. > :50:37.Prime Minister with a comfortable background but as far as I'm
:50:38. > :50:43.concerned, this film will have no impact at all with the general
:50:44. > :50:48.public. Thank you very much. I can't believe that he said that
:50:49. > :50:50.Made in Chelsea wasn't accurate. I thought it was a documentary.
:50:51. > :50:55.You have the box set. I have.
:50:56. > :50:58.Yes, I know, you're watching me on the Sunday Politics.
:50:59. > :51:00.But what other worthwhile things could you be doing?
:51:01. > :51:04.Westminster and Whitehall are liberally dotted with some
:51:05. > :51:08.magnificent buildings, some of which like to make themselves known
:51:09. > :51:11.but you don't often get inside them, which is kind of the purpose
:51:12. > :51:17.Lots of the properties will be open to the public.
:51:18. > :51:19.Some of the more important ones you have to book.
:51:20. > :51:23.But I'll give you a quick tour of five of them that are a stone's
:51:24. > :51:29.When it comes to Westminster Hall it's the roof you are really coming
:51:30. > :51:34.to see, the largest medieval hammer beam roof in Europe.
:51:35. > :51:37.The hall itself has been the scene of some major dramas in our history.
:51:38. > :51:40.They condemned a king to die here, but even though I'm showing you
:51:41. > :51:43.the inside, still come along because actually the surprise is how
:51:44. > :51:57.From the ancient to the modern, Portcullis House is only 13 years'
:51:58. > :52:01.It is where many MPs have their offices and often meet the public
:52:02. > :52:06.It has some infamously expensive trees to look after and
:52:07. > :52:09.since you paid for the whole thing as tax payers, you
:52:10. > :52:17.The whole point of Open House London,
:52:18. > :52:20.is it gets you inside buildings you are not normally able to see.
:52:21. > :52:23.Getting the front door of Downing Street is hard work normally
:52:24. > :52:27.but they are opening it up, the state rooms are available.
:52:28. > :52:30.But here is the thing - it's been the seat of Government
:52:31. > :52:34.They are security conscious and the fact is that anyone who is
:52:35. > :52:38.lucky enough to be in the ballot to get inside here, will actually have
:52:39. > :52:41.to be security checked, a background check will take place.
:52:42. > :52:50.So, right in the heart of Whitehall, two huge purpose-built Government
:52:51. > :52:54.office buildings in the Victorian period.
:52:55. > :52:56.Magnificent on the outside but also on the inside.
:52:57. > :53:00.The Treasury, the famous drum, you can get access to that this weekend,
:53:01. > :53:05.which you often see when the Chancellor is leaving the Treasury
:53:06. > :53:08.for the Commons on Budget day and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office
:53:09. > :53:11.are opening up the India office and the Durbar Court
:53:12. > :53:13.which is magnificent but the real prize in here is the staircase.
:53:14. > :53:21.So, there you are, if you are interested in history and
:53:22. > :53:27.politics, that's an architectural smog he is boring for you.
:53:28. > :53:47.And the Director of Open City, Victoria Thornton is with me now.
:53:48. > :53:53.How did this come about? Well I started it in my back room. I'm not
:53:54. > :53:58.an architect. Have you allowed the public in to see your back room? I
:53:59. > :54:05.don't think they want to. Was there resistance? A lot. It was 22 years
:54:06. > :54:09.ago. Gosh. I know, kind of of like been continuity girl but with the
:54:10. > :54:15.Department of Heritage, there wasn't a Department of Culture, we were in
:54:16. > :54:19.a heavy recession, 55% of architects were unemployed, so there was not a
:54:20. > :54:23.real feeling of particularly contemporary architecture. It was
:54:24. > :54:26.very much about the past. I thought actually architecture is about the
:54:27. > :54:31.quality, not the age. So you have the Foreign Office, the Treasury,
:54:32. > :54:35.Portcullis House, opposite Big Ben The Bank of England. The Bank of
:54:36. > :54:38.England as well, and number ten. Anything else? 26 Whitehall, as
:54:39. > :54:45.well, part of the Cabinet Office as well. And well HM Treasury. So you
:54:46. > :54:49.have at Foreign Office HM Treasury you can slip from one or the other.
:54:50. > :54:53.It is great. You can walk up and down Whitehall for 48 hours and look
:54:54. > :54:57.at some fantastic architecture. Do has to be a good thing. Great thing.
:54:58. > :55:00.My vote is go and look at the Foreign Office. The Treasury - in
:55:01. > :55:06.order to efficiently govern us and know how to cut our spending has
:55:07. > :55:10.rather remodelled itself and the modern architecture inside that
:55:11. > :55:14.wonderful old building, where the dear old Foreign Office, it is still
:55:15. > :55:19.the original - I don't know how you run foreign affairs from t but it is
:55:20. > :55:26.a beautiful architectural thing. I loved being a minister there. I
:55:27. > :55:36.guess you didn't try for MI5 or MI6? We do. What do they say? Not this
:55:37. > :55:39.year. Come back next year. It is always refurbishment, in September.
:55:40. > :55:45.And what do people have to do, I'm sure they can't just turn up? Most
:55:46. > :55:49.is. The whole point is that it is free access for all. It is about not
:55:50. > :55:54.getting ahead. It is free and that's the whole point of the ethos of it.
:55:55. > :55:59.It isn't exclusive. It is totally inclusive. Thinking about your
:56:00. > :56:02.earlier point. What about the security checks? Security generally
:56:03. > :56:06.are good. Obviously there are some security checks. Downing Street is a
:56:07. > :56:12.ballot. Yes, and we do a few ballots that. Did have 25,000 people in the
:56:13. > :56:16.ballot. Really? Yes, so there is a real interest in architecture.
:56:17. > :56:21.Queues? There are, but you accept t you know. It's like if you want to
:56:22. > :56:26.get in, otherwise go and have a cup of tea on those days but we have
:56:27. > :56:34.buildings like the Bank of England, which has about a two-hour queue but
:56:35. > :56:38.we have the gherkin and we also have the new Leden Hall building, which
:56:39. > :56:42.is the key one this year Do you get to see the gold in the Bank of
:56:43. > :56:47.England? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't mind some of it! But they
:56:48. > :56:51.are not all the big sort of state properties r they, that you can go
:56:52. > :56:56.and see? It is a whole range. It is how you live, work and play, we call
:56:57. > :57:02.t it is about opening eyes minds and doors. -- we call it. It to get you
:57:03. > :57:05.interested in architecture N your education system, did any of you
:57:06. > :57:12.learn about architecture? Most probably not. It is an education
:57:13. > :57:18.weekend but fun. --. What about Admiralty House? It has in the past.
:57:19. > :57:22.Our hidden gem is Dover House. It is in. It is a pre-booking, which is,
:57:23. > :57:26.of course for Scotland. It used to be the seat of the Scottish Office
:57:27. > :57:30.and I think is now Scotland House. We will see what happens tomorrow
:57:31. > :57:34.about that. I think it is a great idea. Congratulations. Pleasure. Now
:57:35. > :57:38.there is time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. I have
:57:39. > :57:42.forgotten all about it. The question was: Which job did former Labour
:57:43. > :57:49.minister, Alan Johnson suggest Ed Miliband should have done before
:57:50. > :57:54.entering politics? Was it, a posman, TV presenter, stand-up comedian or
:57:55. > :57:59.soldier. I soldier. I must say I rather agree. It would knock a few
:58:00. > :58:04.of those metropolitan spots off him. Do you think so? I would love to
:58:05. > :58:08.know what his reaction would be. I can't quite see him as a soldier.
:58:09. > :58:13.What do you think? That's the point. None of us could. It would have
:58:14. > :58:15.helped him survive the crowds in Edinburgh.
:58:16. > :58:19.Anyway, well done, you have the right answer. Thank you for being
:58:20. > :58:23.with us today, Mark. That's all for today. Thank you to all of our
:58:24. > :58:29.guests. The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now. I will
:58:30. > :58:34.be back on BBC One tonight, from 10.40 onwards and all through the
:58:35. > :58:37.night until 9.00am tomorrow morning. Getting Westminster reaction to the
:58:38. > :58:42.results of the Scottish referendum as they come in, on our programme
:58:43. > :58:47.Scotland Decides, with hue Edwards in Glasgow. If I'm still awake, I
:58:48. > :58:51.will be back with the Daily Politics here on BBC Two at noon tomorrow
:58:52. > :58:54.and, oh, yes, Newsnight tomorrow night as well. You are joking. It is
:58:55. > :59:01.a quiet 24 hours. Goodbye.