22/09/2014

:00:11. > :00:20.Good morning from the Labour Party conference here in sunny Manchester.

:00:21. > :00:51.The shadow Chancellor Ed Balls has a lot of convincing to do.

:00:52. > :00:55.Morning, folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:56. > :00:58.Ed Balls warns that a Labour government will have to make more

:00:59. > :01:01.cuts to balance the budget - including capping child benefit -

:01:02. > :01:05.we'll bring you his speech live at midday.

:01:06. > :01:08.Conservative MPs descend on the Prime Minister's country

:01:09. > :01:11.house, Chequers, to demand a better deal for England after the promises

:01:12. > :01:20.Labour accuses the Prime Minister of playing politics with his promise of

:01:21. > :01:26.English votes for English laws - we ask the folks here what they think.

:01:27. > :01:29.And I've been out and about sampling the conference nightlife here

:01:30. > :01:41.in Manchester - finding out if they're in any mood to party.

:01:42. > :01:47.Ed has got to project himself as the future prime ministers. I did not

:01:48. > :01:50.vote for him. I voted for David Miliband.

:01:51. > :01:53.All that coming up in the next 90 minutes - oh yes,

:01:54. > :01:57.you get 90 minutes today of this Daily Politics Conference Special.

:01:58. > :01:59.First this morning - Ed Balls has been doing the traditional

:02:00. > :02:05.He chose a Sure Start children's centre to deliver his message that

:02:06. > :02:11.Labour would cap child benefit - a move he says will save ?400

:02:12. > :02:21.We'll be investigating that figure in a minute.

:02:22. > :02:31.First, here is what Mr Balls had to say. I cannot make spending

:02:32. > :02:35.commitments we cannot pay for. If, in the first two years, we keep that

:02:36. > :02:40.child benefit rise to 1%, I hope we can go on and the child benefit

:02:41. > :02:43.rising by more than that later in the parliament. It is one of the

:02:44. > :02:47.things we say we will have to do to get the deficit down in a fairway.

:02:48. > :02:52.If we do not get the deficit down, if we do not balance the books, we

:02:53. > :02:58.will not be able to deliver on all the we want to see. Let's set the

:02:59. > :03:05.scene here in this formidable Manchester conference centre.

:03:06. > :03:10.of the Daily Mirror, and the Spectator's Isabel Hardman.

:03:11. > :03:18.What is the mood of the conference? I think it is pretty flat. A member

:03:19. > :03:22.of the National executive said to me it feels like Labour have lost an

:03:23. > :03:27.election rather than they are about to fight one. Maybe that is because

:03:28. > :03:31.part of the energy and oxygen was sucked up last week by the

:03:32. > :03:36.referendum in Scotland which was a momentous moment in Britain's

:03:37. > :03:41.history. It is very hard to have a conference straight after that with

:03:42. > :03:47.any zip in it. Have you found that, Isabel? Gas, and there are not many

:03:48. > :03:51.policies. I sat here yesterday afternoon and there were no new

:03:52. > :03:58.announcements. Just run hunt gave a speech about education but he did

:03:59. > :04:06.not announce anything -- Tristram Hunt gave a speech about education.

:04:07. > :04:11.We have Ed Balls' speech coming up at noon. It is always the shadow

:04:12. > :04:15.Chancellor Monday speech which is the big one from him. They have said

:04:16. > :04:21.they will freeze child benefit for another year or limited to a 1% cap.

:04:22. > :04:25.Is that it? They are way behind on the polls when it comes to economic

:04:26. > :04:30.credibility. Do we need something to put lead in their pencil? He is 25%

:04:31. > :04:35.behind in the polls on that question. It is very hard to create

:04:36. > :04:39.excitement because you normally create excitement by spending money

:04:40. > :04:44.and promising something. If you say you're going to tackle the deficit,

:04:45. > :04:47.can you give money away? We have not been briefed about further

:04:48. > :04:51.announcements. It could be they are held back for Ed Miliband tomorrow

:04:52. > :04:56.afternoon. The word is there will be something on the NHS. We know it is

:04:57. > :05:01.a weak point for the Conservatives. If you look at the polling, the

:05:02. > :05:06.Conservatives win on economic confidence, UKIP win on immigration

:05:07. > :05:14.and the third bid F -- the third big issue is the NHS which Labour are a

:05:15. > :05:20.head-on. After austerities, you would think he was saying, rather

:05:21. > :05:22.than another freeze, he would come up with something saying things are

:05:23. > :05:33.changing and Labour will make it better will stop this is the balance

:05:34. > :05:36.the house to strike. What he is announcing today goes nowhere near

:05:37. > :05:40.anything like a difficult decision. He is freezing child benefit which

:05:41. > :05:46.voters will probably not notice. It is not like you are taking something

:05:47. > :05:49.away. They will notice it does not match their earnings. That is not

:05:50. > :05:55.the shopping difficult decision that people get upset about. It is very

:05:56. > :06:01.small. Ed Miliband came up with the minimum wage going up to ?8 an hour

:06:02. > :06:12.but that is by 2020, in six years' time. If you look at the growth

:06:13. > :06:16.enrages -- in wages before the crash it would match that. He wanted to

:06:17. > :06:21.give something but it did not quite work. A lot of the chat now is David

:06:22. > :06:27.Cameron, English votes for English laws. It is a very tricky issue for

:06:28. > :06:31.Labour because they have so many MPs in Scotland and Wales to defend. I

:06:32. > :06:36.think David Cameron himself, he did not rise to the occasion of the

:06:37. > :06:40.Scottish referendum result, it was dirty, no politics, but it has been

:06:41. > :06:45.pretty effective in the short term. He may in the long-term playing to

:06:46. > :06:50.Nigel Farage's hands. If you are going to play an English nationalist

:06:51. > :06:56.game, UKIP will trump you every time. Is it all down to Mr Miliband

:06:57. > :07:00.tomorrow? Is he the 1 who will have to set the tone? He did last year at

:07:01. > :07:04.the conference, the freeze on energy prices, that set the political

:07:05. > :07:10.weather for months afterwards. He has got to do that again, so no

:07:11. > :07:14.pressure. We often underestimate Ed Miliband's speech. He did rate 12

:07:15. > :07:19.years ago and we said he could not replicate that but he did again. He

:07:20. > :07:24.does have to produce policies in some sense of a manifesto which I

:07:25. > :07:27.have not got the impression is taking place. Thank you to both of

:07:28. > :07:29.you for kicking off our conference coverage.

:07:30. > :07:32.A group of Conservative MPs are having lunch at an English country

:07:33. > :07:34.house - the Prime Minister's country residence - Chequers.

:07:35. > :07:37.They're pressing him for more powers for English MPs

:07:38. > :07:39.after promises of the swift transfer of significant extra powers to

:07:40. > :07:41.the Scottish parliament before last week's referendum.

:07:42. > :07:43.In particular they want "English Votes for English Laws".

:07:44. > :07:54.Well, our correspondent Mike Sargeant is outside Chequers.

:07:55. > :08:02.Mike, is the Prime Minister there to listen to what his backbenchers have

:08:03. > :08:07.to say, or is he telling them what the policies will be. I think it

:08:08. > :08:13.will be a bit of both. A glorious day here today. A quintessential

:08:14. > :08:20.English seem to consider the issues of identity and national powers. The

:08:21. > :08:25.Conservative MPs are coming here with a message which they believe is

:08:26. > :08:29.in the interests of fairness, to rebalance the powers in the United

:08:30. > :08:33.Kingdom, to give England more in terms of funding and votes at

:08:34. > :08:38.Westminster. There will be more with Labour saying these issues cannot

:08:39. > :08:45.just be decided by a group of Conservative MPs over a nice lunch

:08:46. > :08:49.in a country house. Is Mr Cameron's idea of English devolution, does it

:08:50. > :08:52.just come down to English votes for English laws? Is it just the answer

:08:53. > :09:00.to the West Lothian question. Is that it? The Prime Minister said on

:09:01. > :09:07.Friday, all of these issues would have to be considered in hand, and

:09:08. > :09:10.at the same pace as giving the powers up to Scotland that were

:09:11. > :09:15.promised. The English votes for English laws is something that was

:09:16. > :09:18.in the Conservative manifesto. These Conservative MPs now believe it is

:09:19. > :09:24.time to enact that. But what form that would take? Would it be a soft

:09:25. > :09:27.version like the Mackay commission that the government organised which

:09:28. > :09:32.said you would need a majority in England, but the final say would be

:09:33. > :09:38.by UK MPs. Would you move to a system where you had two classes of

:09:39. > :09:41.MPs? Would there be an English administration, a federal system?

:09:42. > :09:48.These are big, big questions and some of it could be settled quickly

:09:49. > :09:50.but these bigger questions of what kind of structures we have with our

:09:51. > :09:54.parliament and administration may take a lot longer. Separate to that

:09:55. > :10:00.is all the questions about funding, the Barnett formula and all the

:10:01. > :10:05.rest. Have you had any clear briefing from Downing Street on

:10:06. > :10:09.what, if any, is the link between the promised devolution for Scotland

:10:10. > :10:13.and the Prime Minister now talking about English devolution. On Friday

:10:14. > :10:17.morning at 7am, the Prime Minister said English devolution would have

:10:18. > :10:22.to take place into hand and at the same pace Scottish devolution. Since

:10:23. > :10:29.then I am told that Downing Street is saying maybe they are not linked.

:10:30. > :10:32.Any clearer picture? I think the briefing that was emerging over the

:10:33. > :10:36.weekend from Downing Street was trying to give the strong sense that

:10:37. > :10:40.a vow has been made on Scottish powers. That thou has to be

:10:41. > :10:45.honoured, regardless of anything else that happens -- that thou has

:10:46. > :10:51.to be honoured. Many MPs here today believe that the question of English

:10:52. > :10:55.powers has to be sorted out, or at least the direction of travel has to

:10:56. > :10:59.be established. They think politically it is very difficult to

:11:00. > :11:03.be seen to be giving a lot of extra powers to Scotland without

:11:04. > :11:06.addressing what they see as some of these fundamental constitutional

:11:07. > :11:09.imbalances. Downing Street is very clear that it is not conditional,

:11:10. > :11:14.but would like these things to happen at the same time, parallel

:11:15. > :11:18.process. I think that is as close as we have got to understanding what is

:11:19. > :11:21.going on at the moment. That is interesting. Thank you for that.

:11:22. > :11:23.But what do the Lib Dems think about all this?

:11:24. > :11:30.Well, the Business Secretary Vince Cable joins me now from Westminster.

:11:31. > :11:39.Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do the Lib Dems support English votes

:11:40. > :11:42.for English laws? We certainly support the principle. There is an

:11:43. > :11:47.anomaly at the moment and it has to be rectified. It is a complex

:11:48. > :11:53.problem. The Mackay commission a couple of years ago looked at this.

:11:54. > :11:55.It has some ideas for dealing with this through parliamentary

:11:56. > :12:00.procedure. We certainly do not favour setting up some sort of

:12:01. > :12:03.elaborate English Parliament with all the paraphernalia around it. We

:12:04. > :12:10.do recognise the anomaly while we are also dealing with the Scottish

:12:11. > :12:14.devolution issue. But I thought the Lib Dems believed in federalism.

:12:15. > :12:19.Wouldn't federalism involve an English parliament? Not in a formal

:12:20. > :12:24.way. Setting up a new talking shop and institution is not necessary to

:12:25. > :12:28.capture the spirit of federalism. We are federal party. We see merit in

:12:29. > :12:34.going down the route that successful countries like Germany, Australia

:12:35. > :12:38.and the US have. But in order to introduce a fully federal system,

:12:39. > :12:43.you have a whole series of steps to navigate. The immediate issue is how

:12:44. > :12:48.you deal with the English votes for English issues. There are ways to

:12:49. > :12:53.deal with it and the Mackay commission suggests how best we do

:12:54. > :12:57.it. You say it is complicated but isn't it quite easy, if the bill

:12:58. > :13:02.does not apply to Scotland, Scottish MPs do not vote on it? That is a

:13:03. > :13:07.simple principle. When Mackay looked at it, he looked at different stages

:13:08. > :13:10.of the parliamentary process, one of the problems here is you have to

:13:11. > :13:16.separate out the issues which involve money, where of course there

:13:17. > :13:19.is partial devolution, and issues involving legal powers which are

:13:20. > :13:25.fully devolved. The issues are complex. A lot of thought by

:13:26. > :13:32.nonpolitical people have gone into this. There is no silver bullet. The

:13:33. > :13:36.principle of devolution in England, the principle of rectifying the West

:13:37. > :13:41.Lothian question, that is something Liberal Democrats fully accept. If

:13:42. > :13:46.the Prime Minister puts down a motion before Parliament this side

:13:47. > :13:52.of the election on English votes for English laws, how would the Lib Dems

:13:53. > :13:57.vote? It depends what the detail is. As I have said already, the

:13:58. > :14:02.principle has got to be addressed. There is a West Lothian question. It

:14:03. > :14:06.has to have a solution. But the devil is in the detail, rather than

:14:07. > :14:10.in the general principle, and that is what we have got to work through.

:14:11. > :14:15.There is a blueprint of a kind and we want to go back to the Mackay

:14:16. > :14:19.commission and see how much of that can be put into practice in a

:14:20. > :14:23.reasonable timescale. But you will know that the Mackay commission is

:14:24. > :14:28.not go nearly far enough for many people now, because it has simply

:14:29. > :14:41.said the English MPs could have a monopoly on the scrutiny of

:14:42. > :14:44.legislation for England, but at the end of the day, it would be the UK

:14:45. > :14:47.Parliament with everybody voting on it, as to whether it became law or

:14:48. > :14:50.not. That is not satisfactory to many people who think it has to be

:14:51. > :14:52.much more clear-cut. You have put your finger on one of the

:14:53. > :14:56.difficulties. That is not the only one. We have to negotiate this in

:14:57. > :15:00.parallel with more devolution to British cities. There is a clamour

:15:01. > :15:05.for Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol and so on to have

:15:06. > :15:10.more powers. London already have too some degree. The question is how you

:15:11. > :15:14.reconcile devolution to the cities with devolution to England as an

:15:15. > :15:17.entity within Parliament. This is all very tricky stuff and it has got

:15:18. > :15:21.to be dealt with carefully. Shouldn't that be a matter for

:15:22. > :15:31.English votes for English laws? Shouldn't it be up to the English to

:15:32. > :15:33.decide if they are going to decentralise to the major cities?

:15:34. > :15:38.That is what already happens. We already have city deals. That has

:15:39. > :15:42.not been a problem. There has been no conflict with Scottish

:15:43. > :15:46.colleagues. We did not extend the English city deals system to

:15:47. > :15:57.Glasgow. Within the UK we have this, we can entertain this

:15:58. > :16:02.imaginative arrangement. Mr Cable, can you still hear me? I can hear

:16:03. > :16:08.you very well, thank you. OK. Somebody must have cut us off. Can

:16:09. > :16:11.you clarify one final thing - given that it's been a Liberal Democrat

:16:12. > :16:17.policy for a long while and many people said you've been ahead of the

:16:18. > :16:23.game on voting for a federal UK and Menzies Campbell said, "We'll not

:16:24. > :16:27.wait to wait long before we can see a federal United Kingdom." If the

:16:28. > :16:32.Scots have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Northern Ireland too,

:16:33. > :16:36.why not the English? It comes down to what you mean by an English

:16:37. > :16:39.Parliament. If you are talking about a shiny building and new

:16:40. > :16:43.politicians, I don't think there's an appetite for that. But if you are

:16:44. > :16:47.talking about a place within Westminster, within the UK

:16:48. > :16:53.Parliament, where English issues are dealt with by English MPs, then that

:16:54. > :16:57.is an issue we have to focus on. As I've said, the Mackay Commission

:16:58. > :17:05.suggests a way forward and it also points out some of the problems.

:17:06. > :17:10.What about an English executive? If you had a fully federal system, but

:17:11. > :17:18.then you would have to have - within the UK it's unbalanced, the country

:17:19. > :17:21.is so much bigger and then you talk about regions and city regions and

:17:22. > :17:24.how power is devolved. You have to resolve all those problems before we

:17:25. > :17:32.talk about English executives. What we don't want to do is create an

:17:33. > :17:38.uber complex country. We have too much of that at the moment. We

:17:39. > :17:44.better leave it there. Thank you. Labour has most to lose if Scottish

:17:45. > :17:48.MPs are prevented from voting. They have 40 Labour seats in Scotland.

:17:49. > :17:53.What do delegates here think of the idea? Adam went out with his famous

:17:54. > :17:58.mood box to find out. Everyone's talking about the issue of English

:17:59. > :18:01.votes for English laws, so for the first mood box we are asking Labour

:18:02. > :18:08.delegates should Scottish MPs be banned from voting on English issues

:18:09. > :18:14.or not? No, I don't think so. Most legislation is sorted out across all

:18:15. > :18:20.national boundaries. What we need is decentralisation of power from

:18:21. > :18:27.Whitehall to local authorities. Do you know what the West Lothian

:18:28. > :18:31.question is? No. Our first banner. Do you think Scottish MPs should be

:18:32. > :18:36.allowed to vote on English matters in Parliament? Well, House of Lords

:18:37. > :18:45.can vote on English matters and they're not enelected. If Scottish

:18:46. > :18:51.people vote on their own, then we should, so I say no. You're on David

:18:52. > :19:00.Cameron's side of the argument? Can he retract what he said? We'll have

:19:01. > :19:05.the West Dorset question. The Tories determine the NHS and poverty and we

:19:06. > :19:09.have to make sure that people from the left are represented and the

:19:10. > :19:13.people in the poorest communities get represented equally. No holidays

:19:14. > :19:19.in Dorset for you for a while? No. I'm from Northern Ireland. We depend

:19:20. > :19:24.on the Barnet formula and we need to vote on English matters and we can

:19:25. > :19:28.know the share of the budget we are getting. I'm from the north-east of

:19:29. > :19:31.England and people are talking about it there, because in the north-east

:19:32. > :19:37.we feel that an English Parliament is what we need like a hole in the

:19:38. > :19:41.head. Should Scottish MPs be banned from voting on English issues in

:19:42. > :19:48.Parliament? Is there anyone Scottish here? I'm struggling to find anyone

:19:49. > :19:51.Scottish. They are not here yet. They'll be here later today, because

:19:52. > :19:55.they've been given the morning off because of the referendum. This is

:19:56. > :20:00.an interesting one, because you are a Scottish English MP. I'm a British

:20:01. > :20:07.MP and I think there's a lot of change going to have to occur at

:20:08. > :20:11.Westminster as a result of devo max, but it's not something cue do on the

:20:12. > :20:23.back of a fag packet. This is the Conservative Party. It has to be

:20:24. > :20:30.consistent. Therefore, we need a separate federal Parliament. Where

:20:31. > :20:39.would it be? London. That's not very devolutionary, is it? No. Yorkshire

:20:40. > :20:45.maybe? Can I take you back to front-line politics? It's a

:20:46. > :20:55.wonderful question on the balance of... How about Resident Milburn?

:20:56. > :21:00.I'm warming to your theme. That will get you back, being President? Oh,

:21:01. > :21:07.yes, watch out. That's pretty overwhelming people here do not want

:21:08. > :21:16.the ban. I suppose the only irony is, we didn't get a single vote from

:21:17. > :21:21.a Scottish MP. Jim Murphy grabbed the headlines after he was pelted

:21:22. > :21:29.with eggs by question question supporters. -- "yes" supporters. He

:21:30. > :21:34.joins me now. It was two accurates -- crates, one for each of my size

:21:35. > :21:40.13 feet. You managed to duck the mood box. Where would you have put

:21:41. > :21:45.the ball? The majority of people, so no. What is wrong with Scottish MPs

:21:46. > :21:51.not voting on matters that only effect England? I think there's a

:21:52. > :21:58.lot of things we have to discuss. All the disappointments of the

:21:59. > :22:06.post-referendum period is that the parties worked better together in

:22:07. > :22:11.beTer together. -- Better Together. The result were over? The ink was

:22:12. > :22:15.hardly dry and he was out there making his own proposals. Scotland

:22:16. > :22:20.took two years and taken two decades to get to this point. David Cameron

:22:21. > :22:25.seems to have done it in a few short moments and I think it's naked party

:22:26. > :22:28.politics and that's where we were in the Scottish referendum. It

:22:29. > :22:33.shouldn't be where we are when it comes to suggesting the United

:22:34. > :22:39.Kingdom's unwritten constitution. It also gells with people's idea of

:22:40. > :22:42.fairness. Scottish MPs vote for - Scottish politicians vote on

:22:43. > :22:47.Scottish laws, why shouldn't English politicians vote on English laws?

:22:48. > :22:54.What about Northern Ireland MPs? On any law that was England... Or the

:22:55. > :22:58.Welsh? Any law that affects only England, only English MPs vote?

:22:59. > :23:02.David Cameron is focussing on the Scots for the reason of party

:23:03. > :23:09.politics. When we had devolution in Northern Ireland no-one is talking

:23:10. > :23:14.about them or Wales. He said English vote for English people. We have

:23:15. > :23:18.devolution in London with the Mayor of London and London MPs vote on

:23:19. > :23:22.issues in the House that don't affect their constituents on

:23:23. > :23:27.transport, so there's so much here way beyond the single soundbite that

:23:28. > :23:32.David Cameron comes up with at 7.00am on Friday morning. We should

:23:33. > :23:36.have a convention and if we are looking at the lessons of Scotland,

:23:37. > :23:41.there is one lesson, I would like to see votes at 16 and 17. That was a

:23:42. > :23:44.great success. We should look at constitutional convention to look at

:23:45. > :23:48.all of the issues rather than one single issue as to whether Scottish

:23:49. > :23:52.MPs get to vote in the second reading of a housing bill. Why do

:23:53. > :23:58.you need a constitutional convention to tell you it's unfair that

:23:59. > :24:02.Scottish MPs interfere in English matters when English MPs don't

:24:03. > :24:06.interfere in Scottish matters? I've already said, there are London MPs

:24:07. > :24:11.voting and it doesn't affect their constituents. It's nothing like the

:24:12. > :24:16.power of the Scottish Parliament. On what basis should they not be

:24:17. > :24:20.allowed to vote on transport? This shows where we have an unwritten

:24:21. > :24:25.constitution that has evolved over the decades, and over the centuries,

:24:26. > :24:31.now surely we have time to reflect at a slower pace through a

:24:32. > :24:36.convention involving all the parties, civic societies... You want

:24:37. > :24:40.to kick them into touch? The answer is politically desperate for you,

:24:41. > :24:43.without your 40 Labour MPs from Scotland you cannot enforce your

:24:44. > :24:47.will in England? It's not about that at all. Of course it is. Everybody

:24:48. > :24:50.knows that. It's desperate of David Cameron to come up with this

:24:51. > :24:56.quarter-baked plan early in the morning on Friday. Surely we should

:24:57. > :25:00.do this at a reasonable pace, have a convention, allow the public of the

:25:01. > :25:04.United Kingdom in on this and should we have a Bill of Rights? Should we

:25:05. > :25:09.have a written constitution and people vote at 16 or 17? All of

:25:10. > :25:15.those issues are more important than the vote of Scottish MPs. You as a

:25:16. > :25:20.Scottish MP voted to increase top-up fees for English students. The bill

:25:21. > :25:24.was only enforced on England because of people like you and yet your

:25:25. > :25:28.constituents weren't facing top-up fees. You forced it on England and

:25:29. > :25:32.yet the Scots got away with not having it at all. How is that fair?

:25:33. > :25:37.I don't think that's correct in terms of the balance of votes in the

:25:38. > :25:42.House, but we'll leave that to one side. The Labour Government was only

:25:43. > :25:46.able to push it through on the back of 38 Scottish Labour MPs, a piece

:25:47. > :25:50.of legislation that affected England, but not Scotland. The

:25:51. > :25:58.Liberal Democrats voted against it and the Tories voted against it too.

:25:59. > :26:01.The principle is the maths. The Government want -- won by five

:26:02. > :26:07.votes. They wouldn't have won without the 37 Labour MPs. We have a

:26:08. > :26:13.situation where the constitution is a bit of a stramash in a haphazard

:26:14. > :26:18.way and we add on and take parts away. In the Scottish Parliament

:26:19. > :26:24.there's been a more careful way of doing it and I would rather do it

:26:25. > :26:28.more considered and my preference would be for a written constitution,

:26:29. > :26:35.where we can discuss the issues over voting powers and rights and who get

:26:36. > :26:44.to vote and which members of the public do vote. In the meantime, you

:26:45. > :26:47.are going to devolve income tax powers to the Scottish Parliament,

:26:48. > :26:55.that's part of the vow that your party and David Cameron made. So,

:26:56. > :27:00.the Scots will set their own income tax rates. Why should you have any

:27:01. > :27:06.right to set income tax rates for England? The Scots already have the

:27:07. > :27:11.power to set their income tax. The principle was agreed. The Parliament

:27:12. > :27:17.from day one had income tax power and through the Commission in

:27:18. > :27:21.2012... To devolve it further? I accept it's further. In 2012 they

:27:22. > :27:26.were devolved through the Commission and there was an ability to fade --

:27:27. > :27:31.vary the rates in income tax. You are right to say there are further

:27:32. > :27:35.powers. I think there has to be a response across the UK to all the

:27:36. > :27:38.issues. We'll look at Scotland and how to rebalance the constitution of

:27:39. > :27:43.the United Kingdom and do it effectively. Someone, not me,

:27:44. > :27:48.someone cleverer than me, described this approach as a dangerous dog

:27:49. > :27:52.act. Let's not do this in a rush. What is David Cameron's rush? I

:27:53. > :27:59.suspect he's trying to win a general election. It's naked Tory politics.

:28:00. > :28:02.Your party and the Tories and the Liberal Democrats did a huge rush

:28:03. > :28:07.when you looked like you might be losing the referendum. Let me ask

:28:08. > :28:14.you this - is it Labour policy to devolve all income tax powers to

:28:15. > :28:17.Edinburgh? It wasn't our policy in our proposals and we came forward

:28:18. > :28:21.with our proposals. The Liberal Democrats had theirs. I'm not asking

:28:22. > :28:25.about them. What is Labour's policy? We came forward with a policy. It

:28:26. > :28:32.wasn't full devolution. What is it now? No what we'll do is discuss

:28:33. > :28:36.with the Tories and the Liberal Democrats and let the people of

:28:37. > :28:41.Scotland in on the conversation and all three parties will have to give

:28:42. > :28:45.and take. We have our position and they have theirs. We'll try to find

:28:46. > :28:48.a common cause, even though the referendum is offer, with the three

:28:49. > :28:51.parties and involve the people of Scotland. I can't announce the

:28:52. > :28:57.outcome of something we have only just started doing. That's what

:28:58. > :28:59.David Cameron has done. Scottish devolution is happening at

:29:00. > :29:04.break-neck speed. There's no question about that. You've agreed

:29:05. > :29:08.to the speed. Yet, you sit here and you cannot tell our viewers what

:29:09. > :29:13.Labour's position is on devolving income tax to Scotland? Scottish

:29:14. > :29:20.devolution is not happening quickly. It's taken two decades. The campaign

:29:21. > :29:23.ran for two years. It's quicker, but it's not break-neck speed. What we

:29:24. > :29:26.are doing is the three parties, Labour, Conservative Party and

:29:27. > :29:29.Liberal Democrats their own plans and dint plans. We have said in

:29:30. > :29:33.light of the referendum, how can we speed up the plans and how can we

:29:34. > :29:38.find common cause? The only break-neck speed here is David

:29:39. > :29:42.Cameron and his haphazard quarter-baked ideas about how to

:29:43. > :29:52.treat Scottish MPs. One more time - can you tell me what Labour Party

:29:53. > :29:57.policy is in devolving income tax? Our policy is the same as it was on

:29:58. > :30:00.Friday mourning, to discuss with the Conservative Party, the Liberal

:30:01. > :30:03.Democrats and the people of Scotland to see what the right policy would

:30:04. > :30:08.be in terms of the balance of income tax. It's not complicated. I'm not

:30:09. > :30:16.going to make up a new policy on your programme today.

:30:17. > :30:26.What is your policy on devolving income taxed to Scotland? Our

:30:27. > :30:31.approach is to try and find an agreement with the other two parties

:30:32. > :30:39.who had a different policy. I know you have to sound frustrated... I am

:30:40. > :30:43.frustrated! That is your fault. You are not answering the question. I am

:30:44. > :30:48.not going to make up a new policy in three days. We will work with the

:30:49. > :30:53.other parties, discuss it with the people of Scotland and come to a

:30:54. > :30:55.consensus if we can. And then we will have a constitutional

:30:56. > :31:01.convention to rebalance the unwritten laws and the Constitution

:31:02. > :31:06.of the UK. I know when I am beaten, Jim Murphy. I will have some Irn-Bru

:31:07. > :31:12.next time I interview you! It is good for you.

:31:13. > :31:21.Just a few minutes until Ed Balls delivers his conference speech.

:31:22. > :31:24.In a moment I'll be talking to Nick Robinson about what we can

:31:25. > :31:28.But first Ed Balls is known, of course, as a political bruiser -

:31:29. > :31:30.but yesterday he showed that he can get a bit physical

:31:31. > :31:34.He was playing what was supposed to be a

:31:35. > :31:36."friendly" charity match against a team of journalists, but Ed's elbow

:31:37. > :31:40.left one of his opponents with four stitches in his cheek ? ouch.

:31:41. > :31:42.And we're joined now by the journalist in question, Rob Merrick.

:31:43. > :31:55.How are you? I am fine. How did you feel? I was disappointed to go off

:31:56. > :32:00.because we were winning at the time. The rest did not even give a free

:32:01. > :32:06.kick. Look at that picture. Our shadow Chancellor? The pictures do

:32:07. > :32:11.not do him any favours but I have been sent off in this fixture before

:32:12. > :32:16.now so I am the last to complain about a few robust challenges. His

:32:17. > :32:21.response was your tackle was a bit tough. I am not sure he said that.

:32:22. > :32:25.He said I was trying to net a ball off him and he was putting up his

:32:26. > :32:33.arms to protect himself and he caught me on a soft spot. So no hard

:32:34. > :32:38.feelings? Definitely not. I'm convinced Ed will be hurting other

:32:39. > :32:44.people. We beat them 3-1 and he did not manage a target on shot. You

:32:45. > :32:54.will play him again? We will never retire. Speaking of a man who never

:32:55. > :33:02.retires, here Nick Robinson! I love the idea of it Ed Balls said you ran

:33:03. > :33:10.into his elbow, your face ran into his elbow. He has a nasty little

:33:11. > :33:15.bruise. That is the excuse people give the police on a Friday night,

:33:16. > :33:21.he ran into my fist. Has Ed Balls got more to say on what has been

:33:22. > :33:25.leaked so far? I think he has. We often get full briefings and

:33:26. > :33:31.full-text. We have not. I can tell you the little I know. What we have

:33:32. > :33:37.had so far is clearly designed to bolster what we will get. By saying

:33:38. > :33:43.I will take a tough decision, by saying I will take a decision on

:33:44. > :33:48.child benefit, albeit a small amount of money, what is he trying to do?

:33:49. > :33:52.He is trying to say to his conference critically and the

:33:53. > :33:58.public, look, I mean what I say when I say I am not going on a spending

:33:59. > :34:02.spree. There will be a lot of people saying we will be in power next

:34:03. > :34:07.year, boys and we will get spending again. He needs to say to them,

:34:08. > :34:12.honestly, I am not going to. Crucially, he needs to say to the

:34:13. > :34:17.country because Labour is way behind in terms of the credibility and

:34:18. > :34:21.opinion polls. Doesn't he also have to rally the troops are bit as well?

:34:22. > :34:29.They are way behind on economic competence in the polls. But he also

:34:30. > :34:34.have to give something, not just more cuts on child benefit,

:34:35. > :34:39.something that lift their spirits? The giveaway is the backdrop of the

:34:40. > :34:49.conference. They put those words up for a reason. We often think it is a

:34:50. > :34:54.load of old la. Labour's plan. Why does it say that? Every time someone

:34:55. > :34:58.stands up and says we have got a long-term economic plan in the

:34:59. > :35:01.Conservative Party, that has been hurting them. A lot of people do not

:35:02. > :35:06.like the coalition or the Tories but they say, at least that Cameron and

:35:07. > :35:11.Osborne have got a plan. I think what Ed Balls is going to try to do,

:35:12. > :35:15.but crucially Ed Miliband will do in his speech tomorrow, is to say, this

:35:16. > :35:20.is not just a series of little measures which do not connect, we

:35:21. > :35:25.have a plan and we know what we will do if we get in. I think the upside

:35:26. > :35:27.of what Ed Balls will do is to say, Yes one apprenticeships and

:35:28. > :35:34.house-building, we will do all of those but we will also deal with the

:35:35. > :35:38.deficit at the same time. Did he not give you a preview of his speech to

:35:39. > :35:44.make up for what he did? No I do not think I got an extra preview. I did

:35:45. > :35:49.come back from A to a story about Ed Balls making cuts which is the

:35:50. > :35:54.come back from A to a story about ultimate irony. I think he is the

:35:55. > :36:00.ultimate metaphor. He was toying with the joke yesterday about I can

:36:01. > :36:05.be guaranteed to deliver more bloody cuts but I think he took the view

:36:06. > :36:11.that that would not be appropriate. If he makes the gag later on about

:36:12. > :36:16.being in stitches! We can show you the picture as it builds up.

:36:17. > :36:22.Margaret Beckett is speaking to the conference at the moment. There is

:36:23. > :36:29.Ed Balls getting ready. And Mr Miliband. I can tell you that his

:36:30. > :36:37.speech has been delayed. It is not reckoned that he will speak until

:36:38. > :36:43.12:20pm. Do you know why, Nick? Not a clue. But I can bring you the

:36:44. > :36:45.vital news that this speech has been practised on an ironing board in the

:36:46. > :36:50.balls Cooper bedroom. You practised on an ironing board in the

:36:51. > :36:54.have something which is the practised on an ironing board in the

:36:55. > :36:57.of a podium. There is an ironing board in Ed Balls

:36:58. > :37:02.of a podium. There is an ironing Cooper's bedroom. It has on it a

:37:03. > :37:09.speaker's lector which apparently they bought from the United States.

:37:10. > :37:16.They had been trying it out on their aides who are under no pressure of

:37:17. > :37:24.course to laugh and clap. All right. We are now hearing that he will get

:37:25. > :37:39.on his feet at 12:11pm. -- Patsy has been told to hurry up. -- perhaps he

:37:40. > :37:44.has been told to hurry up. Because Labour have a different attitude to

:37:45. > :37:50.borrowing, to the current coalition and particularly the Tories, he

:37:51. > :37:55.would have room to borrow up to ?28 billion more, over three years from

:37:56. > :38:02.2015 to 2018, the time of the next election, he would have the room to

:38:03. > :38:08.spend and borrow ?28 million more. Why? Because the Tory goal is to

:38:09. > :38:11.effectively stop borrowing in 2018. Ed Balls argues that there is

:38:12. > :38:17.nothing wrong with borrowing to build things, to invest, and that

:38:18. > :38:23.would allow in this kind of room. The irony is it is eye-catching to

:38:24. > :38:26.talk about child benefit, which may save he says 400 million. The

:38:27. > :38:33.Treasury are saying it will save about a third of that, but actually,

:38:34. > :38:35.this is chicken feed compared to these big differences in

:38:36. > :38:42.macroeconomic policy which gives them a lot more room. I understand

:38:43. > :38:47.he is saying he will run a surplus on the current spending, and he will

:38:48. > :38:51.still borrow to invest in capital spending, on infrastructure and

:38:52. > :38:55.things like that. But he is also saying he will pay down the national

:38:56. > :39:01.debt. He cannot pay down the national debt if he is continuing to

:39:02. > :39:07.borrow on capital account. Unless the runs a very big current account

:39:08. > :39:12.service. He would have to run a lot. I have not seen any figures to

:39:13. > :39:16.explain that. I do not think you will get them today either, in

:39:17. > :39:21.truth. His defence always is that you do not know the state of the

:39:22. > :39:26.economy so it is mad to set out the figures early. They are all haunted

:39:27. > :39:31.by the great shadow budget as it was known of John Smith before the 1992

:39:32. > :39:35.election, which spells out a lot of detail, designed to tackle the

:39:36. > :39:40.Tories' claim that the figures did not add up and you did not know what

:39:41. > :39:42.Labour would do. The state of politics and the economy changed and

:39:43. > :39:48.they were stuck with this plan which was two years old and some argue

:39:49. > :39:55.that helped Neil Kinnock lose the election against John Major. We are

:39:56. > :40:02.talking about nurses pay, teachers' pay, welfare spending, all the

:40:03. > :40:07.things which makes this party and the country tick. Guess, and you're

:40:08. > :40:11.certainly not talking about meeting that goal by a couple of hundred

:40:12. > :40:15.million on curbing child benefit. There is no way that that would meet

:40:16. > :40:21.that. You would need something much more substantial. Is a Mr Balls

:40:22. > :40:30.running out of time? It has been four years now, there has been a lot

:40:31. > :40:33.of austerity and still Labour's credibility on economic matters is

:40:34. > :40:37.way behind the Conservatives and we are only seven or eight months until

:40:38. > :40:43.the election? Jelena I think that is what so many people fear, that it is

:40:44. > :40:49.too late to make up the ground. I wonder if they have underestimated

:40:50. > :40:53.how popular with activists in cutting child benefit will be. I

:40:54. > :41:00.have a message on my phone from someone who is furious about it. It

:41:01. > :41:06.is not meaningful in economic terms as you explained. I wonder if it

:41:07. > :41:17.will play worse than he expects. Margaret back -- Beckett has sat

:41:18. > :41:22.down. She is a Labour veteran. The huge hall looks pretty busy. I think

:41:23. > :41:29.we are ready to see the shadow Chancellor get to his feet. He is

:41:30. > :41:33.being introduced. The big speech, I guess is Ed Miliband tomorrow. This

:41:34. > :41:39.is preparing for it, laying the foundations for it. Ed Miliband has

:41:40. > :41:40.two convince people that they can see him as Prime Minister. Let's go

:41:41. > :42:00.to Ed Balls now. Thank you very much, Angela.

:42:01. > :42:05.Conference, 20 years ago, at this Labour conference, we'd together

:42:06. > :42:09.took the historic step of reforming our party's Constitution. The result

:42:10. > :42:16.is on the back of our membership card today. Our goal, a community in

:42:17. > :42:22.which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not

:42:23. > :42:29.the few. Our conviction that by the strength of our common endeavour, we

:42:30. > :42:34.achieve more than we achieve alone. 20 years on, that Labour vision, our

:42:35. > :42:42.Labour values are more relevant than they have ever been. While our

:42:43. > :42:48.economy is growing again, taxes are up, wages are down, NHS waiting

:42:49. > :42:52.times are rising, most working people are not seeing any benefit

:42:53. > :42:58.from the recovery. It is no wonder that the country is crying out for

:42:59. > :43:03.change. But at a time when trust in all politicians is at an all-time

:43:04. > :43:07.low, and when even after deep spending cuts and tax rises for

:43:08. > :43:13.working people, our deficit is still high, this is our task. Not to

:43:14. > :43:16.flinch from the tough decisions we have to make, but to show the

:43:17. > :43:23.country there is a better way forward. Labour's plan for

:43:24. > :43:28.Britain's future, our common endeavour, to build an economy that

:43:29. > :43:31.works for the many, not the few. For all working people in every part of

:43:32. > :43:39.our United Kingdom. APPLAUSE

:43:40. > :43:43.And conference, when we think of those words, by the strength of our

:43:44. > :43:50.common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone. Don't they

:43:51. > :43:54.resonate more loudly, after the events of the last few days and

:43:55. > :44:00.weeks, because conference, we meet here in Manchester, a united party

:44:01. > :44:08.in our still United Kingdom. APPLAUSE

:44:09. > :44:14.And let us pay tribute to Joe and Lamont and Margaret Curran, Alistair

:44:15. > :44:20.Darling and Gordon Brown, Anna Sarwar, Jim Murphy, Douglas

:44:21. > :44:23.Alexander, Cathy Jamieson, all the MPs, MSP 's, party workers,

:44:24. > :44:27.volunteers, up more beyond our MPs, MSP 's, party workers,

:44:28. > :44:30.as well, who worked so tirelessly to win last week's

:44:31. > :44:41.as well, who worked so tirelessly to thank them all -- Johann Lamont. But

:44:42. > :44:45.let us never forget. After all the campaigning and the brilliant

:44:46. > :44:50.barnstorming speeches, the decision to stay together and shape

:44:51. > :44:55.Scotland's future within our United Kingdom, was not made by politicians

:44:56. > :45:01.or pundits. It was made by the people of Scotland. They voted to

:45:02. > :45:05.retain the shared prosperity and security and solidarity our union

:45:06. > :45:10.brings. But the people of Scotland did not vote for the status quo.

:45:11. > :45:15.They voted for the opportunity to shape Scotland's future with greater

:45:16. > :45:19.devolution and it is our duty to deliver on that promise, and for

:45:20. > :45:28.Wales and for the cities and regions of England as well. Yes, we do need

:45:29. > :45:34.to change our constitution and reform and strengthen our union in a

:45:35. > :45:38.fair way. A process which as Ed has said, must start with

:45:39. > :45:42.fair way. A process which as Ed has politicians. We know too that in

:45:43. > :45:47.Scotland and across the rest of the United Kingdom people want bigger

:45:48. > :45:51.change than that. Change which goes beyond powers and processes and

:45:52. > :45:57.Parliaments and constitutions. It's radical change. To build an economy

:45:58. > :46:01.that works for all working people. Knocking on doors, in my

:46:02. > :46:07.constituency a few Sundays ago, I spoke to a mum and she told me her

:46:08. > :46:12.teenage son had finished college and he had been looking for a job for

:46:13. > :46:16.ages. She so relieved when he finally found a job, but she was

:46:17. > :46:21.worried because he's on a zero-hours contract. Every morning he rings in

:46:22. > :46:29.at 7.00am to see if they want him and when they say no, he has to wait

:46:30. > :46:34.around all day. She said, "It breaks my heart, because he deserves better

:46:35. > :46:39.than that." She is right and that story's no exception. It's one of

:46:40. > :46:43.thousands and thousands of doorstep stories all of us here across the

:46:44. > :46:47.country every week hear. Parents worried about whether their children

:46:48. > :46:53.will get a job or apprenticeship and whether the next generation will be

:46:54. > :46:57.worse off than ours. And they are relying on us, Labour, to make

:46:58. > :47:01.things better. Families and pensioners seeing prices rising in

:47:02. > :47:06.the shops, heating bills going up and up. Millions of people in the

:47:07. > :47:10.private and in the public sectors struggling without a pay rise or

:47:11. > :47:15.unable to get the hours they need, still not feeling benefit from the

:47:16. > :47:22.recovery and relying on us, Labour, to make things better. Young people

:47:23. > :47:26.struggling to save to buy a house. Disabled people and family carers

:47:27. > :47:30.forced to pay the Government's bedroom tax and thousands of people

:47:31. > :47:36.working in the NHS and millions more relying on our NHS, worried about

:47:37. > :47:42.waiting times, rising and creeping privatisation, rely on us, Labour,

:47:43. > :47:48.to make things better. And conference, we must not let them

:47:49. > :47:53.down. And that is why it's our job to go on and win the next general

:47:54. > :47:58.election and change Britain and deliver this country from this

:47:59. > :48:11.unfair out-of-touch and failing Tory government. And conference, we all

:48:12. > :48:17.know the great weight of responsibility we carry on our

:48:18. > :48:20.shoulders. That is why this party is so united and determined and fired

:48:21. > :48:28.up to get Ed into Downing Street. Over the last four years, Ed has led

:48:29. > :48:32.us from the front, reforming our party and leading a shadow Cabinet

:48:33. > :48:36.with more women and more candidates than ever before and modernising our

:48:37. > :48:40.relationship with the trade unions and standing up for the victims of

:48:41. > :48:44.phone hacking and speaking up for the people of Britain on the cost of

:48:45. > :48:50.living crisis and demanding the reforms we need to change our

:48:51. > :48:57.economy at every stage and he has led this party with courage and

:48:58. > :49:01.strength and vision and principle and he will do the same for this

:49:02. > :49:10.country, our leader, Britain's next Prime Minister, Ed Miliband.

:49:11. > :49:16.APPLAUSE As for David Cameron and George

:49:17. > :49:21.Osborne, going around the country saying they've fixed the economy and

:49:22. > :49:31.telling people they've never had it so good, how out of touch can you

:49:32. > :49:34.get? Prices still raising faster than wages and the Tories say

:49:35. > :49:39.they've fixed the economy. The lowest recovery for 100 years,

:49:40. > :49:45.business investment still lagging behind and the lowest level of house

:49:46. > :49:51.building since the 1920s. One in six young people out of work and the

:49:52. > :49:55.gender pay gap widening. Over a million zero-hours contracts and

:49:56. > :49:59.working people, 1600 a year worse off and the Tories say they've fixed

:50:00. > :50:03.the economy. What planet are they on? Conference, working people

:50:04. > :50:13.cannot afford five more years of this Tory government.

:50:14. > :50:19.APPLAUSE You know, when the Tories say

:50:20. > :50:23.they've fixed the economy we know what they've really meant. The

:50:24. > :50:32.millionaires who got a massive tax cut, that's who they've fixed it

:50:33. > :50:38.for. The hedge funds funding the Tory Party and the big investors

:50:39. > :50:42.buying Royal Mail and Russian oligarchs in tennis mashes with

:50:43. > :50:52.Boris and Dave. Conference, it's the same old Tories.

:50:53. > :50:58.APPLAUSE It's the same old Tory economics

:50:59. > :51:02.too. Cutting taxes at the top, and hoping wealth will somehow trickle

:51:03. > :51:09.down. Standing up for a privileged few, while everyone is left behind

:51:10. > :51:14.for the few, not the many, David Cameron, George Osborne, Nick Clegg,

:51:15. > :51:24.it's the same old Tories every one of them.

:51:25. > :51:29.APPLAUSE And now, David Cameron thinks a

:51:30. > :51:36.grateful and devoted nation is going to give him another five years in

:51:37. > :51:43.Downing Street. Another five years. You know what, even his own party

:51:44. > :51:52.don't believe him any more. APPLAUSE Do you remember Cameron's A

:51:53. > :51:57.list? Nine Tories elected in 2010 already standing down from the A

:51:58. > :52:08.list to the exit door innious four years. Nine Tories leaving. Another

:52:09. > :52:12.scurrying off to UKIP. And Boris scrambling back to Westminster

:52:13. > :52:20.preparing to elbow David Cameron out of the way. Although, perhaps today

:52:21. > :52:28.the less said about elbows the better. That's today's Tories. Going

:52:29. > :52:32.on about Cameron, giving up on the general election, starting to fight

:52:33. > :52:44.the next Tory leadership election instead. Conference, just remember

:52:45. > :52:53.what Boris - Michael Gove said, just remember what he said a few weeks

:52:54. > :52:58.ago over a boozy dinner with his old boss, Rupert Murdoch, which somehow

:52:59. > :53:07.found its way into the newspapers. I don't know how? ! Michael Gove said

:53:08. > :53:14.that Boris Johnson has no gravitas. He said Theresa May has no friends.

:53:15. > :53:25.He said only George Osborne is fit to lead. Only George Osborne is fit

:53:26. > :53:31.to lead? And how did Michael Gove explain his comments? He said he was

:53:32. > :53:34.tipsy. LAUGHTER Tipsy?

:53:35. > :53:44.He must have been completely legless!

:53:45. > :53:51.Conference, we know working people can't afford five more years of the

:53:52. > :53:55.Tories, but this is no time for complacency, because this is the

:53:56. > :53:58.hard truth that we learned not just from events in Scotland, but also

:53:59. > :54:03.from the local and European elections, the rise of you cup from

:54:04. > :54:07.the conversations we have on doorsteps and in workplaces week

:54:08. > :54:11.after week. Yes, the Tories are deeply unpopular, yes, the country's

:54:12. > :54:16.crying out for change, but even after the progress and successes of

:54:17. > :54:20.our last four years, we have more to do to show Labour can deliver the

:54:21. > :54:24.change people want to see. That we have learned from our time in

:54:25. > :54:27.government. To show we will make the tough decisions to get the deficit

:54:28. > :54:33.down and that we can change our economy and make it work for working

:54:34. > :54:37.people. Conference, it's more important than ever that we, the

:54:38. > :54:41.Labour Party, are honest with the country about what the last Labour

:54:42. > :54:49.government got right and what we got wrong. Like you, I'm proud of so

:54:50. > :54:53.many of the things we did. Conference, we, Labour, introduced

:54:54. > :55:05.the first-ever national minimum wage and we will raise the minimum waning

:55:06. > :55:08.if we win the election next year. APPLAUSE

:55:09. > :55:13.We, Labour, introduced free nursery places for the first time ever and

:55:14. > :55:23.we will expand free childcare for working parents if we win the

:55:24. > :55:24.election next year. APPLAUSE

:55:25. > :55:30.We, Labour, introduced civil partnerships and paved the way this

:55:31. > :55:36.year for our country's first-ever same-sex marriages and opened 3,500

:55:37. > :55:42.children's centres and made the right call not joining the euro and

:55:43. > :55:47.starting in 1997, after 18 years of neglect, we we formed the NHS, we

:55:48. > :55:53.invested in the NHS, we cut waiting times from 18 months to 18 weeks in

:55:54. > :56:03.the NHS. Conference, we saved our National Health Service from the

:56:04. > :56:07.Tories. APPLAUSE

:56:08. > :56:13.Next year, after just five years of David Cameron, with waiting times

:56:14. > :56:20.rising, fewer nurses, a crisis in A, we will have to save the NHS

:56:21. > :56:25.from the Tories once again and we will do what it takes, because

:56:26. > :56:40.conference, it's the oldest trick in the book - you can never ever trust

:56:41. > :56:43.the Tories with the NHS. APPLAUSE

:56:44. > :56:49.Conference, we can be proud of many of the things we did. But where we

:56:50. > :56:53.made mistakes, like all government do, we should be grown up about it.

:56:54. > :56:57.We should put our hands up, learn from the past and explain how we'll

:56:58. > :57:01.do things differently in the future. We should have had tougher rules on

:57:02. > :57:05.immigration from eastern Europe. It was a mistake not to have

:57:06. > :57:09.transitional controls in 2004. We must change the rules in the future.

:57:10. > :57:13.Longer transitional controls for new countries. A longer time people have

:57:14. > :57:18.to work before they can get benefits. Stopping people claiming

:57:19. > :57:25.tax credits and child benefit and sending it to families abroad and

:57:26. > :57:29.cracking down on employiers who exploit migrant working by avoiding

:57:30. > :57:32.the minimum wage and tough controls and fairer rules. That is what we

:57:33. > :57:37.mean when we talk about fair movement, not free movement. And

:57:38. > :57:41.conference, while it was the banks which caused the global recession,

:57:42. > :57:44.it was the global recession which caused deficits to rise here in

:57:45. > :57:48.Britain and around the world and the truth is we should have regulated

:57:49. > :57:51.the banks in a tougher way. It was a mistake. We should apologise and I

:57:52. > :57:57.do. Plaus plau

:57:58. > :58:02.-- APPLAUSE Paver As we get the deficit

:58:03. > :58:06.down again, we must reform the banks, so it can never happen again.

:58:07. > :58:11.And conference, we didn't do enough to tackle the underlying causes of

:58:12. > :58:16.rising spending on housing benefit and in-work poverty, so we'll raise

:58:17. > :58:21.the minimum wage and build more homes and cap overall spending on

:58:22. > :58:27.social security. And we should not have scrapped the 10 pence starting

:58:28. > :58:30.rate of tax. APPLAUSE

:58:31. > :58:35.Conference, we don't just need to learn from our mistakes, we also

:58:36. > :58:42.need to put right the mistakes this Government is making. So, we won't

:58:43. > :58:53.pay for new free schools in areas where there are excess school

:58:54. > :58:57.places. APPLAUSE

:58:58. > :59:00.Conference, we will repeal the NHS bill and stop the creeping

:59:01. > :59:14.privatisation of the National Health Service. And yes, conference, in our

:59:15. > :59:15.first Budget, the next Labour Government will scrap the bedroom

:59:16. > :59:29.tax too. We'll build on our record and

:59:30. > :59:33.leadership the mistakes from the last government and put right the

:59:34. > :59:37.mistakes of the Tories. We will change Britain and change the Labour

:59:38. > :59:41.Party changing Britain, but we'll also face great challenges. Working

:59:42. > :59:46.people are already paying more taxes, our public services are under

:59:47. > :59:50.great pressure. We know there would have had to have been tough

:59:51. > :59:54.decisions on tax and pay restraint, whoever was in Government, but three

:59:55. > :00:02.years of lost growth at the start of this Parliament means we'll have to

:00:03. > :00:07.deal with a deficit of ?75 billion. Not that balanced Budget George

:00:08. > :00:11.Osborne promised. That will make our task hugely difficult and this goes

:00:12. > :00:22.to the heart of the political challenge we'll face.

:00:23. > :00:29.balance the books and we will make the sums add up and we will not duck

:00:30. > :00:32.the decisions they face if they return us to government. Working

:00:33. > :00:35.people have to balance their own books and they are clear that

:00:36. > :00:41.government has to balance its own books as well. We will balance the

:00:42. > :00:45.books. There will be tough fiscal rules. We will get the current

:00:46. > :00:50.budget into surplus and the national debt falling as soon as possible in

:00:51. > :00:58.the next Parliament. Tough fiscal rules, our National policy Forum

:00:59. > :01:03.endorsed in July, said however difficult, our party can unite in

:01:04. > :01:08.tough times to agree a radical, credible and fully costed programme

:01:09. > :01:13.to government. We will legislate those rules in the first year of

:01:14. > :01:16.government. They will be independently monitored by the

:01:17. > :01:21.office for budget responsibility. In our manifesto there will be no

:01:22. > :01:24.proposals for any new spending paid for by borrowing. No new commitments

:01:25. > :01:28.without saying where the money is coming from because we will not make

:01:29. > :01:34.promises we cannot keep and cannot afford. And because we will need an

:01:35. > :01:38.iron commitment to fiscal discipline, we want the office for

:01:39. > :01:44.budget responsibility to be allowed independently to audit the costing

:01:45. > :01:48.and spending for every tax measure in Labour's manifesto and those in

:01:49. > :01:53.other parties as well, a bold reform which the Tories are desperate to

:01:54. > :01:58.block, because they are running scared from having their own

:01:59. > :02:03.manifesto subject to independent scrutiny and because David Cameron

:02:04. > :02:08.and George Osborne want to carry on peddling untruths and smears about

:02:09. > :02:19.Labour's plans. Conference, the next Labour government will get the

:02:20. > :02:24.deficit down. Ed Miliband and all my shadow cabinet colleagues are

:02:25. > :02:29.clear, it will mean cuts and tough decisions. We will take the lead. I

:02:30. > :02:32.can announce today that if we win the election on day one of the next

:02:33. > :02:38.Labour government, the pay of every minister will be cut by 5%.

:02:39. > :02:42.Ministerial pay will be frozen each year until we have achieved our

:02:43. > :02:46.promise to balance the nation's books, because we are clear that

:02:47. > :02:48.everybody in the next Labour government must be fully focused on

:02:49. > :02:54.the task of getting the deficit down. Our 0-based review of public

:02:55. > :02:58.spending is examining every pound spent by government to cut waste and

:02:59. > :03:04.make difficult choices and setting out how we can make money and

:03:05. > :03:09.improve care by having a single budget and joint management. If it

:03:10. > :03:15.has set out how police forces will work more closely together to make

:03:16. > :03:18.savings and we will scrap Police and Crime Commissioners so we can do

:03:19. > :03:25.more to protect front-line policing -- Yvette Cooper has set out how

:03:26. > :03:29.police forces will work more closely. Hillary is working with the

:03:30. > :03:34.toughest and best generation of local government leaders to make

:03:35. > :03:38.savings and free up resources for the front line. We will look to

:03:39. > :03:42.prioritise early intervention now which can save billions of pounds in

:03:43. > :03:49.the future and we will insist that all the proceeds from the sale of

:03:50. > :03:54.our stakes in Lloyds and RBS, are used not for a frivolous

:03:55. > :03:59.pre-election giveaway, but instead, every penny of profit will be used

:04:00. > :04:02.to reduce the national debt. Conference, that is fiscal will

:04:03. > :04:06.sponsor the little in the national interest. And we will have to make

:04:07. > :04:10.other decisions, which I know will not be popular with everyone. At a

:04:11. > :04:14.time when the public services that pensioners rely on are under such

:04:15. > :04:18.pressure, we will stop paying the winter fuel allowance for the

:04:19. > :04:24.richest 5% of pensioners. Over the long-term, as life expect in the

:04:25. > :04:29.rises, we will need to continue to raise the retirement age to keep our

:04:30. > :04:32.pension system affordable. We will cap social structural security

:04:33. > :04:37.spending and keep the benefits cap, but we will make sure it properly

:04:38. > :04:41.reflects local housing costs. Conference, I want to see child

:04:42. > :04:45.benefit rising again in line with inflation in the next Parliament,

:04:46. > :04:50.but we will not spend money we can't afford. For the first two years of

:04:51. > :04:54.the parliament, we will cap the rise in child benefit at 1%, we will save

:04:55. > :04:58.400 main pounds in the next Parliament. All the savings will go

:04:59. > :05:07.to cutting the deficit -- ?400 million. We will ask those who have

:05:08. > :05:13.the most to make the biggest contribution. That is why we oppose

:05:14. > :05:18.David Cameron cutting the 50p top rate of tax. Now cannot be the time

:05:19. > :05:23.to give the richest 1% of people in the country 3 billion tax cut. As we

:05:24. > :05:26.get the deficit down in the next Parliament, the Labour government

:05:27. > :05:39.will reverse this Tory tax cut for millionaires. We will balance the

:05:40. > :05:44.budget in a fairer way. In the next Parliament, when we will continue to

:05:45. > :05:49.face tough spending constraints, I want pay settlements which are both

:05:50. > :05:53.affordable and fair. Private and public sector workers should all

:05:54. > :06:00.sharing rising prosperity. Labour will not undermine fairness and the

:06:01. > :06:08.independent pay review bodies by rejecting their advice out of hand.

:06:09. > :06:13.Instead, we will work with the pay review bodies, employers and

:06:14. > :06:17.employees, to ensure pay settlements are affordable and fair, and do more

:06:18. > :06:22.for those on the lowest pay with tough settlements at the top.

:06:23. > :06:26.Conference, we will also scrap the shares for rights screen. We will

:06:27. > :06:30.reverse the tax cuts for hedge funds is. We will crack down on tax

:06:31. > :06:34.avoidance and loopholes. And we will levy a tax on the highest value

:06:35. > :06:44.properties, a mansion tax on houses worth more than ?2 million. But we

:06:45. > :06:46.will do it in a fair, sensible and proportional way, raising it in line

:06:47. > :06:49.with house prices, putting in protections for those who are asset

:06:50. > :06:54.rich and cash poor. And ensuring those with properties worth tens of

:06:55. > :06:58.millions of pounds make a significantly bigger contribution

:06:59. > :07:04.than those in houses just above the limit. How can it be right that a

:07:05. > :07:10.billionaire overseas buyer this year of ?140 million, penthouse in

:07:11. > :07:14.Westminster, will pay just ?26 a week in property tax, the same as

:07:15. > :07:22.the average value property in that area? Conference, we will make

:07:23. > :07:26.different choices for fairer deficit reduction and to safeguard our vital

:07:27. > :07:30.public services. That is Labour's plans to balance the books in a

:07:31. > :07:38.fairer way. APPLAUSE

:07:39. > :07:44.Conference, our plan will balance the books. But an economic plan must

:07:45. > :07:48.do much more than that. We also need to change the way our economy works.

:07:49. > :07:53.We must restore the broken link between the Wealth of Nations and

:07:54. > :07:59.finally for finances and deliver prosperity for all -- family

:08:00. > :08:02.finances. Across the world, rapid technological change is replacing

:08:03. > :08:07.not just on skilled but skilled jobs as well, in banking and offices, as

:08:08. > :08:14.well as on production lines. The result is our hollowing out in our

:08:15. > :08:19.Labour market with low-wage and insecure it employment on the rise.

:08:20. > :08:24.Conference, in this new world, we cannot succeed the Tory way to a

:08:25. > :08:30.race to the bottom with British companies simply competing on cost,

:08:31. > :08:33.as people see their job security row did and living standards decline. We

:08:34. > :08:39.can only succeed and create the number of good jobs we need in a

:08:40. > :08:43.race to the top. Labour's economic plan will transform vocational

:08:44. > :08:47.education. We will work with employers to produce a gold standard

:08:48. > :08:52.technical education and radically expand apprenticeships and we will

:08:53. > :08:55.get young people back to work. Rachel Reeves will introduce

:08:56. > :08:58.compulsory jobs guarantee, a pledge for young people and they

:08:59. > :09:03.un-employed which people will have to take up or lose benefits. It will

:09:04. > :09:06.be paid for by repeating the tax on bank bonuses. We will end the

:09:07. > :09:14.scourge of long-term unemployment once and for all.

:09:15. > :09:19.APPLAUSE And because a modern economy depends

:09:20. > :09:23.on not just traditional infrastructure, but on the most

:09:24. > :09:32.important modern infrastructure of, we will increased the bank levy to

:09:33. > :09:38.expand childcare for working parents to 25 hours a week to help mums and

:09:39. > :09:42.dads balance family life. We will give tax breaks to firms which paid

:09:43. > :09:47.a living wage. We will end the exploitative use of zero hours

:09:48. > :09:50.contracts and by the end of the next Parliament, Labour will increase the

:09:51. > :09:57.national minimum wage to ?8 an hour. APPLAUSE

:09:58. > :10:04.And what is the Tory plan for the next Parliament? They want to spend

:10:05. > :10:10.?3 billion on a tax break for a minority of married couples. People

:10:11. > :10:14.who are separated, widowed or divorced, they will not get it.

:10:15. > :10:19.People who fled and divorced and divorced an abusive partner, they

:10:20. > :10:24.will not get it. Read the small print, two thirds of married couples

:10:25. > :10:29.will not get it. Five out of six families with children will not get

:10:30. > :10:35.it either. And the Tories call that a flagship policy for families. In

:10:36. > :10:40.our first budget, we will scrap this unfair policy and instead use the

:10:41. > :10:45.money to introduce a 10p starting rate of income tax. A tax cut for 24

:10:46. > :10:50.million people on middle and lower incomes. More working people will

:10:51. > :10:53.benefit. More women will benefit. More married couples will benefit.

:10:54. > :10:59.More families will children will benefit. That is a fairer way to

:11:00. > :11:04.help working people in tough times. And conference, Labour's economic

:11:05. > :11:09.plan means modern industrial policy to back the new growth sectors,

:11:10. > :11:13.manufacturing, clean technology and the creative industries. We want

:11:14. > :11:17.proper competition in banking and energy markets. New takeover rules

:11:18. > :11:22.to support long-term investment, not as stripping. Proper investment

:11:23. > :11:29.banks and businesses get the finance they need. Chuka Umunna and I have

:11:30. > :11:34.asked Graeme Cole, chair of Augusta Westland UK, to also review what

:11:35. > :11:39.more we can do to back British exports. We will keep our

:11:40. > :11:43.corporation tax rates the lowest of the G7, but instead of another

:11:44. > :11:48.corporation tax rate next year, our plan will instead that money to cut

:11:49. > :11:54.business rates for small firms because it is time, conference, that

:11:55. > :12:01.we had a fairer deal for small businesses in our country.

:12:02. > :12:07.Conference, why should decisions on what skills Manchester needs be made

:12:08. > :12:10.in Whitehall? Why should a Transport Minister in Westminster make

:12:11. > :12:15.decisions about all the transport needs of Birmingham, Newcastle or

:12:16. > :12:19.Leeds? Our economic plan will devolve power and resources, not

:12:20. > :12:25.only to Scotland and Wales, but to the city and county regions in every

:12:26. > :12:29.part of England. Our new independent national infrastructure commission

:12:30. > :12:32.will end dither and delay on big infrastructure decisions we need for

:12:33. > :12:39.the future. And whatever the outcome of the Howard Davies review into egg

:12:40. > :12:44.port capacity, we must resolve to finally make a decision on airport

:12:45. > :12:48.capacity in London and the south-east, expanding capacity while

:12:49. > :12:52.taking into account environmental impact. No more kicking it into the

:12:53. > :12:58.long grass, but taking the right decisions for Britain's long-term

:12:59. > :13:02.future. And conference, in the housing market, demand is

:13:03. > :13:07.outstripping supply, risking a premature rise in interest rates,

:13:08. > :13:11.the housing benefit bill is rising. Following the Lions report which we

:13:12. > :13:15.will publish in a few weeks and making housing priority, within the

:13:16. > :13:22.existing capital settlement for the next Parliament, Laboureconomic plan

:13:23. > :13:26.will get at least 200,000 new homes built by 2020. Creating jobs,

:13:27. > :13:28.helping first-time buyers and building the homes Britain needs for

:13:29. > :13:37.the future. APPLAUSE

:13:38. > :13:43.. Labour's economic clan is based on the clear conviction that Britain

:13:44. > :13:48.has always succeeded and can only succeed in the future of open,

:13:49. > :13:52.internationalist and outward facing trading nation. We need reform in

:13:53. > :13:57.Europe will stop cutting wasteful subsidies, getting the euro area

:13:58. > :14:03.growing again, reforming jobs and ending the waste of two European

:14:04. > :14:05.Parliaments, let us all build the alliances to secure reform and

:14:06. > :14:10.change Europe so it works better for Britain. As we heard so powerfully

:14:11. > :14:15.this morning from the Chief Executive of Airbus, we are not

:14:16. > :14:20.going to earn our way into higher living standards by walking away

:14:21. > :14:26.from our biggest single market. Let us say loud and clear, walking away

:14:27. > :14:31.from Europe would be a disaster for British jobs and investment. On

:14:32. > :14:45.Europe, this party will always put the national interest first.

:14:46. > :14:49.APPLAUSE Conference, that's Labour's economic plan. It's the kind of

:14:50. > :14:53.government we should be, ambitious, reforming, doing what it takes to

:14:54. > :14:57.deliver, an economy that works for working people in every part of

:14:58. > :15:02.Britain. And that's the kind of Chancellor I want to be too. People

:15:03. > :15:10.rightly want to know who we are, what drives us on, what makes us

:15:11. > :15:14.tick. Let me say this - I'd always rather taxes were lower, but my

:15:15. > :15:19.first tax cuts would be for millions of hard-working people and not

:15:20. > :15:24.millionaires. I hate wasteful spending, but I hate the waste of

:15:25. > :15:28.one in six young people out of work. I'm pro-business, but not business

:15:29. > :15:34.as usual. I'm pro-Europe, but never join the euro. I love the NHS, I'll

:15:35. > :15:39.do whatever it takes to save it. And above all else, I want to build a

:15:40. > :15:44.better and fairer country for my children and all our children.

:15:45. > :15:48.Because, as soon who has grown up with a stammer being I've worked all

:15:49. > :15:52.my political life to breakdown barriers so that all children can

:15:53. > :15:56.succeed. To get extra help and support to those children who need

:15:57. > :16:01.it, because I don't want to live in a society where children are held

:16:02. > :16:05.back by their special need or their disability by their parents' income

:16:06. > :16:21.or the colour of their skin. That's why I'm Labour. I'm a real list.

:16:22. > :16:26.APPLAUSE I'm a realist and an optimist. I don't believe in

:16:27. > :16:30.dpuBGing difficult decisions, unpopular decisions hard truths, but

:16:31. > :16:35.I believe in the power of politics and public service to make a

:16:36. > :16:39.difference. That's who I am. And that's what our Labour Party is for

:16:40. > :16:51.and that's why I am proud to be a member of this party and to serve in

:16:52. > :16:56.Ed Miliband's Shadow Cabinet. Conference, we have learned from our

:16:57. > :17:01.past and mistakes. We are tough enough to make the difficult

:17:02. > :17:06.decisions and with Ed Miliband's leadership by the strength of our

:17:07. > :17:15.common endeavour, we can make a change that Britain needs.

:17:16. > :17:20.Conference, this is what our first Labour Bumminget will do -- Budget

:17:21. > :17:25.will do, business rates cut, tax avoidance tackled, the deficit down

:17:26. > :17:29.fairly, infrastructure decisions made not delayed, the minimum wage

:17:30. > :17:34.raised, energy bills frozen, jobs guaranteed for young people, tax

:17:35. > :17:39.cuts for millions, not for millionaires, bank bonuses taxed,

:17:40. > :17:43.the bedroom tax scrapped, are NHS saved, that's what Labour's first

:17:44. > :17:48.Budget will do. Fixing the economy for everyone, a plan for the many,

:17:49. > :18:04.not the few, people are relying on us to deliver this. Conference, we

:18:05. > :18:18.will not let them down. Thank you. APPLAUSE El balls, the Shadow

:18:19. > :18:25.Chancellor takes the applause as he comes to the end of his speech. A

:18:26. > :18:28.rousing end. Rather more rousing than the middle or the beginning.

:18:29. > :18:34.There weren't too many policy changes to our attention. He

:18:35. > :18:39.apologised for not getting bank regulation right, but he's done that

:18:40. > :18:45.before. He apologised for not having tougher rules on immigration and

:18:46. > :18:49.he's done that before. He said he will scrap the tax rate for married

:18:50. > :18:54.couples and the pre-announcement was that he'll keep the 1% increase on

:18:55. > :18:59.child benefit for an extra year. We'll talk about that with Rachel

:19:00. > :19:03.Reeves in one moment. He indicated, though, that the Davies Report on

:19:04. > :19:08.airport capacity, which is about expanding in the south-east of

:19:09. > :19:15.England in particular, it sounded to me they will accept the report and

:19:16. > :19:19.that Ed Miliband will not try to expand Heathrow Airport. At least,

:19:20. > :19:24.that's what it sounded like. He interestingly had nothing to say

:19:25. > :19:28.about the devolution of income tax to Scotland. That is one of the

:19:29. > :19:32.great promises made to the Scottish people during the referendum

:19:33. > :19:39.campaign. Nick Robinson was in the hall and listening and he joins me

:19:40. > :19:44.now. A lopping speech, but nothing new? It was interesting how he's

:19:45. > :19:48.targeting different audiences. The message to voters via the media, we

:19:49. > :19:53.got that yesterday. I'm tough on spending. As well as that child

:19:54. > :19:56.benefit, curving of benefit increases that we read about, as

:19:57. > :20:01.well as the cut in ministerial pay, we got the general statement that he

:20:02. > :20:04.will not put anything in the manifesto that will require no new

:20:05. > :20:08.spending commitment or extra borrowing. As we have been

:20:09. > :20:12.stressing, his existing rules for borrowing are much more lax than the

:20:13. > :20:16.current coalition, so he's got a lot of extra borrowing and spending, but

:20:17. > :20:21.he said there would be no new spending. The message to the party

:20:22. > :20:25.was, look at all the things we can change, raise the minimum wage and

:20:26. > :20:29.jobs guaranteed for the Jung and so on. That is -- young and so on. It's

:20:30. > :20:35.clearly the makings of the plan. I've no doubt by the end of this,

:20:36. > :20:38.we'll be handed the plan. I was most interested by this targeting of

:20:39. > :20:40.business. They've got a real problem, Labour, with business.

:20:41. > :20:45.There are few things they are trying. First, to say the Tories

:20:46. > :20:50.will get you out of the EU, we won't. The thing you mentioned about

:20:51. > :20:52.airports, very important, Ed Miliband

:20:53. > :20:56.airports, very important, Ed Secretary and was opposed to

:20:57. > :21:00.expansion. The speech in code, but carefully briefed to the CBI, we are

:21:01. > :21:04.not against it, we are still going to have tests about the environment

:21:05. > :21:11.and noise, but do not think we are going to ignore expansion. It has to

:21:12. > :21:15.be done. And if so, we'll do it. Very wealthy viewers, he said the

:21:16. > :21:21.way that Labour's mansion tax would work and it's people in houses worth

:21:22. > :21:25.more than ?2 million, they would vary the rate, so the person,le

:21:26. > :21:29.billionaire who can afford a ?20 billion and there are some of those

:21:30. > :21:34.in central London, would pay at a higher rate from those people just

:21:35. > :21:40.above the limit, who may actually be in the jarring an, asset rich and

:21:41. > :21:44.income poor. Crudely, a widow who inher receipts a house from someone

:21:45. > :21:48.and the house is up, but there isn't much ready cash to spend. There are

:21:49. > :21:51.little nuggets, but frankly, on the eve of the general election it

:21:52. > :21:56.didn't feel like we got much that we didn't already know. Now, the dog

:21:57. > :22:00.that didn't bark, no mention about devolving income tax to Scotland. I

:22:01. > :22:05.think you and I both understand that's because Mr Balls is not that

:22:06. > :22:09.keen on this. He's not happy with the way Gordon Brown just made this

:22:10. > :22:13.announcement. We understand that he wasn't even consulted. And that he

:22:14. > :22:18.does not want all income tax to be devolved to Scotland? Definitely

:22:19. > :22:20.not. There's no doubt at all that as Shadow Chancellor he fought

:22:21. > :22:25.proposals that were drawn up not just a few weeks ago, but last year

:22:26. > :22:32.in the Scottish Labour Party, to devolve more taxes to the Scottish

:22:33. > :22:37.Parliament. A draft report emerged, written by Joanne Lamont and when

:22:38. > :22:42.the final report emerged it would be massively watered down. Why? Because

:22:43. > :22:47.Ed Balls had intervened. His argument is, if I'm going to be a

:22:48. > :22:51.Labour Chancellor I want controls of economic leaders and if you devolve

:22:52. > :22:56.all of income tax you are devolving yet another thing that holds the

:22:57. > :22:59.United Kingdom together. What he would call shared risk. They are the

:23:00. > :23:03.things we do together. He didn't like it being done last week in the

:23:04. > :23:10.heat of the referendum campaign and I think he'll continue to fight it.

:23:11. > :23:15.Thank you. We are joined now by the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary,

:23:16. > :23:19.Rachel Reeves. Can you enlighten us on what Labour plans to do on income

:23:20. > :23:22.tax for Scotland? All these things need to be worked through, but the

:23:23. > :23:27.people of Scotland, they voted to remain part of the United Kingdom,

:23:28. > :23:34.to pool and share risk and that. We do know that. All these details need

:23:35. > :23:40.to be worked out. You can't tell us. This freezing of child benefit at 1%

:23:41. > :23:45.for up to two years in the first year, you say that will save ?400

:23:46. > :23:50.million? Over the course of the next Parliament. 200 million of that is

:23:51. > :23:53.in plans, because the first year involves only 1%, so the net saving

:23:54. > :23:58.that you have announced can't be more than 200 million? It's around

:23:59. > :24:04.300 million during the course of this Parliament. It's the saving in

:24:05. > :24:10.the year one... But it's factored into the next year's plans. So only

:24:11. > :24:16.one extra year. It's around 300 million. You also assumed a higher

:24:17. > :24:21.rate of inflation that is now impossible, so on the Treasury's

:24:22. > :24:25.calculations you've only saved 120 billion. The Bank of England

:24:26. > :24:29.forecasts at inflation on what we use to make the forecast and that is

:24:30. > :24:39.having inflation going up to around 2%. First of all, it is penalised

:24:40. > :24:44.anyway? 400 million is a big contribution towards the deficit

:24:45. > :24:48.reduction and getting the debt down. It's 75 billion. Child benefit is

:24:49. > :24:52.not the only thing. The tax on properties worth more than ?2

:24:53. > :24:57.million, repeating the bank bonus tax and increasing the top rate of

:24:58. > :25:01.tax up to 50 pence and the winter fuel allowance not going to the

:25:02. > :25:08.richest pensioners. It's important if you add it all up to. What is it?

:25:09. > :25:12.Several billion. The key point and way to get the deficit down is to

:25:13. > :25:15.have an economic recovery that leaves no-one behind. Our

:25:16. > :25:20.announcement on the national minimum wage is really important for deficit

:25:21. > :25:25.reduction, because in the last 12 months we have spent ?270 million on

:25:26. > :25:33.tax credits and benefit payments because the minimum wage hasn't kept

:25:34. > :25:35.up with inflation. Increasing that is important component as well,

:25:36. > :25:42.because if people aren't paid a wage to live on they have to draw on

:25:43. > :25:45.benefits to make ends meet. If they're not getting the extra

:25:46. > :25:49.benefits, if the benefits are withdrawn from them as the wage goes

:25:50. > :25:56.up, they don't get the whole benefit of the minimum wage. They are

:25:57. > :26:00.marginalised. For every pound that you get that lift you above the

:26:01. > :26:05.minimum wage saves taxpayers 49 pence in the pound. I'm not the

:26:06. > :26:09.people who are independent of it. They are not getting all of the

:26:10. > :26:13.money, but if you have a pay rise then it would be around ?3,000

:26:14. > :26:17.better off a year compared to the minimum wage where it is today. That

:26:18. > :26:23.is a massive difference. You say you're going to balance the current

:26:24. > :26:29.budget, or runcy surplus even and pay down the national debt? As soon

:26:30. > :26:34.as possible. Then you'll borrow more for investment? No, what Ed said in

:26:35. > :26:38.the speech and this is important, there will be no spending commitment

:26:39. > :26:43.in the manifesto that aren't paid for, so there will be no extra

:26:44. > :26:46.borrowing in our manifesto. Everything we set up, whether

:26:47. > :26:53.capital spending or current, will be paid for. You are still going to

:26:54. > :26:57.borrow? No, what we are saying. In the manifesto, there will be no

:26:58. > :27:02.proposals for further borrowing whether for capital or current. You

:27:03. > :27:05.are actually going to run a surplus on the current and the capital

:27:06. > :27:12.account? What we are saying is that as soon as possible, in the next

:27:13. > :27:17.Parliament, we want to run a surplus overall and national debt falling.

:27:18. > :27:22.He doesn't say that. He said he could get the current budget and pay

:27:23. > :27:27.down the fashle debt. He didn't say that he was going to have an overall

:27:28. > :27:31.budget surplus. What he says in the speech there will be no further

:27:32. > :27:33.spending in the manifesto for current or capital expeed tour,

:27:34. > :27:37.because we can't make promises we can't keep. That is what the Liberal

:27:38. > :27:41.Democrats did going into the 2010 general election. You conditioned

:27:42. > :27:48.kid people there will be loads of extra money. I need to clarify this,

:27:49. > :27:53.because it's important. If you are telling me now that you don't intend

:27:54. > :27:58.to borrow for investment and you are going to run a current spending

:27:59. > :28:01.surplus, you are planning to run an overall budget surplus? We are

:28:02. > :28:05.planning to get the national debt down, which means you have to be

:28:06. > :28:08.running a surplus to be able to that. If you are national debt

:28:09. > :28:12.falling you have to have a surplus overall. On current and capital

:28:13. > :28:18.accounts or both? To get debt falling you have to have a surplus

:28:19. > :28:21.on overall spending, so... It was only a couple of months ago he was

:28:22. > :28:26.saying it was all right to borrow to invest. ! Listen to what he said

:28:27. > :28:30.today, no commitments in the manifesto for further borrowing.

:28:31. > :28:37.Everything in manifesto will be paid for, not by further borrowing. That

:28:38. > :28:42.is really important. It's significant OK, thank you for

:28:43. > :28:47.clarifying that. That's is for today. I'll be back tonight after

:28:48. > :28:52.Newsnight on BBC Two. There is more tomorrow at midday, with live

:28:53. > :28:55.coverage of the big speech from Ed Miliband from 2.00 onwards. Hope you

:28:56. > :29:09.can join me then. Goodbye. The guns fell silent on

:29:10. > :29:13.November 11th 1918, but the shadow stretched long into

:29:14. > :29:18.the 20th century. Historian David Reynolds

:29:19. > :29:22.examines its devastating impact.