:00:00. > :00:07.Welcome to Manchester where it's Ed Miliband's big day.
:00:08. > :00:10.Can the Labour leader overcome his dire personal poll ratings
:00:11. > :00:58.and convince voters he's Prime Minister material?
:00:59. > :01:03.The US leads air strikes against Islamic State in Syria
:01:04. > :01:10.A mansion tax on houses worth over ?2 million to pay for increased
:01:11. > :01:13.spending on the NHS - that's Ed Miliband's eye-catcher today.
:01:14. > :01:22.They're seen it a threat to the Tories but how much could UKIP
:01:23. > :01:25.damage Labour in next year's general election?
:01:26. > :01:29.Some say he saved the union in last week's referendum. We ask delegates
:01:30. > :01:35.here if it's time for a Gordon Brown comeback?
:01:36. > :01:44.It just seemed to have a different sort of spunk to him, if that's oar
:01:45. > :01:46.word I can use. Is Ed Miliband liking it, though? Is Ed Miliband
:01:47. > :01:53.less spunky? Yes, most definitely. All that in the next hour,
:01:54. > :01:56.with the Ed Miliband speech to come First this morning, let's take stock
:01:57. > :01:59.of how this conference is going. I'm joined by Dave Wooding
:02:00. > :02:12.of the Sun on Sunday and Elizabeth What do you make of the mood of the
:02:13. > :02:16.conference? It is a bit flat, Andrew. There isn't much verve.
:02:17. > :02:21.There are not many speeches that seem to ignite the audience. We
:02:22. > :02:25.spoke to one Shadow Cabinet Minister yesterday and he said, "We are
:02:26. > :02:30.steady as she goes." It feels you are on the cusp of potentially
:02:31. > :02:35.returning to power but there doesn't seem to be a belief you can do it. I
:02:36. > :02:45.remember the 1996 Labour Conference, the year before the landslide in
:02:46. > :02:48.'97. I remember the year before, the year before they thought they were
:02:49. > :02:51.going to win. The mood is very different. Yes, if you run the clock
:02:52. > :02:55.back, there was a sweeping feeling of change. Their time had come. You
:02:56. > :02:58.knew it was going to be there and you sensed the build-up to a general
:02:59. > :03:01.election. We are only eight months away from a general election now.
:03:02. > :03:05.You wouldn't think it was around the corner. This is his last speech
:03:06. > :03:10.before the general election, judging the mood here, very flat. I would
:03:11. > :03:14.say, you have to have some sympathy for him. His conference is wedged
:03:15. > :03:18.between the Scottish referendum and now, air strikes in Syria, and so,
:03:19. > :03:24.it is events, isn't it, events have overtaken. And even overshadowed.
:03:25. > :03:30.Yes and he is dropping down the news event at the moment he needs to make
:03:31. > :03:33.the pitch to the English - well, the English - the British voters. Well
:03:34. > :03:36.he has a particular pitch to make to the English voters. One of the
:03:37. > :03:41.questions they have struggled to answer here from the start is
:03:42. > :03:46.English votes for English laws proposition the Prime Minister has
:03:47. > :03:49.stuck on them. That has overshadowed the whole thing. Everyone you talk
:03:50. > :03:54.to, we are all talking about Scottish devolution. The problem Ed
:03:55. > :03:59.Miliband has, is if he backs Cameron's pledge or desire to have
:04:00. > :04:04.English votes for English laws, he then automatically cuts out 40
:04:05. > :04:08.Scottish MPs and voters, so it is not in his political interest. It is
:04:09. > :04:14.a very difficult argument to sell. To the people So it is tricky. Is it
:04:15. > :04:23.true, all the good stuff has been kept for Mr Mill ban's speech this
:04:24. > :04:28.afternoon? Is it -- Mr Ed Miliband's speech this afternoon Is he says - I
:04:29. > :04:33.need to all to make an impact. Last year, he had the freeze on the
:04:34. > :04:36.energy prices. Which set the political temperature. It will be
:04:37. > :04:39.interesting to see what he has this year. He is talking about bread and
:04:40. > :04:42.butter issues to get away from the English question. Nevertheless, I
:04:43. > :04:46.think the thing he needs to give us at the conference speech this
:04:47. > :04:50.afternoon, is not so many eye-catching initiatives, let's be
:04:51. > :04:54.honest, there isn't the image. More so, he has proproject himself as a
:04:55. > :04:57.leader a future Prime Minister which I don't think many people see him as
:04:58. > :05:03.at the moment. You mentioned the issue at the moment, dominating the
:05:04. > :05:07.headlines. With the Arab allies, but without Britain in Iraq and now into
:05:08. > :05:11.Syria do we have any idea what the idea of the policy of the Labour
:05:12. > :05:16.Party is, should Britain decide what it wants to do? It is fluid. The
:05:17. > :05:20.story broke overnight but the early-morning sense we are getting
:05:21. > :05:24.is they are more supportive of going into Syria. You remember that they
:05:25. > :05:28.basically helped defeat... Last year, the vote. But I don't think
:05:29. > :05:33.they actually have a firm position. I checked in this morning, and there
:05:34. > :05:35.has been no official contact between the Prime Minister and Ed Miliband
:05:36. > :05:39.over it. Parliament going to be recalled? I would probably put money
:05:40. > :05:42.on maybe Friday. I think they'll have to recall Parliament. And then
:05:43. > :05:48.the Prime Minister has to make up his mind what he is going to ask
:05:49. > :05:51.Parliament to do. Is he going to ask Parliament simply to support air
:05:52. > :05:56.strikes in Iraq? Or is he going to ask what is now happening, air
:05:57. > :06:00.strikes in Iraq and Syria. Do we know? We don't at this stakes. There
:06:01. > :06:03.are talks already going on with Iran, which is quite bizarre when
:06:04. > :06:08.they were funding operations against our soldiers which led to many
:06:09. > :06:13.deaths in the Basra region. He did tee up his MPs a couple of would hes
:06:14. > :06:16.ago on this, with the whips ringing round. There haven't been any calls
:06:17. > :06:21.to MPs this morning apparently. One MP said to me that he didn't think
:06:22. > :06:24.Cameron would make any mood on this, until the fate the hostages is
:06:25. > :06:28.decided one way or the other. If he does go in and they have got
:06:29. > :06:32.hostages, it is too high risk. One of the things I found here is, it
:06:33. > :06:38.has been quite difficult to get some of the details out of Shadow Cabinet
:06:39. > :06:45.people on the poll si.s he spoke to Rachael Reeves yesterday to find out
:06:46. > :06:50.-- I spoke to Rachael Reeves to find out is Ed Balls going to balance the
:06:51. > :06:54.current budget or overall budget. That was not clear but that was
:06:55. > :06:58.nothing on what happened on LBC this morning with Miss Looefs. What is
:06:59. > :07:06.the pension at the moment for an elderly person? Just under ?100. The
:07:07. > :07:14.basic state pension. Is it? Around ?100 a week. I thought it was ?113.
:07:15. > :07:18.It is around ?100. So you don't know what the pension is. It depends how
:07:19. > :07:25.many years you have contributed to a pension. Well, actually, on the
:07:26. > :07:31.basic state pension, it doesn't, really, it is the basic state
:07:32. > :07:36.pension. Wouldn't you expect the Shadow Pensions Spokesperson to
:07:37. > :07:40.know. Well, look, the whole point of that is they are trying to show that
:07:41. > :07:45.they are credible on the economy, and on spending and they have got to
:07:46. > :07:48.show voters they are not just going to get into power and spend loads of
:07:49. > :07:53.money they haven't got. Shouldn't you know what the pension is, if you
:07:54. > :07:56.are the Shadow Pension Secretary? You absolutely should. Absolutely.
:07:57. > :08:00.You should know how you are going to balance the books. It is not good.
:08:01. > :08:04.It is one of these basic stuff questions - you ask somebody a
:08:05. > :08:09.standard question they should know and they should know it. They know
:08:10. > :08:14.deep policy but not basic stuff. How could the Labour Party accuse George
:08:15. > :08:21.Osborne and David Cameron being two posh boys who don't know the of a
:08:22. > :08:23.pint of milk when she doesn't know the price of the basic state
:08:24. > :08:28.pension. Thank you very much. So overnight the US and its Arab
:08:29. > :08:31.allies launched airstrikes against It marks a significant widening
:08:32. > :08:35.of the US bombing campaign, which up to now has only attacked
:08:36. > :08:37.the Jihadists in Iraq. Let's talk to our correspondent
:08:38. > :08:47.in Washington, Barbara Plett Usher. Barbara. I suppose the President
:08:48. > :08:52.told us he was going to widen the war, and this is it not happening on
:08:53. > :08:57.the ground or from the air? Yes, he gave lots of lead time. He announced
:08:58. > :09:02.it in a speech nearly two weeks ago. He didn't say when exactly it would
:09:03. > :09:08.happen, so it wasn't unexpected, so we didn't know when to expect it and
:09:09. > :09:11.now it has happened. What the US central command has reported, is
:09:12. > :09:16.quite a big series of air strikes, carried out with the help of Arab
:09:17. > :09:20.allies in the region. It says five Arab regions helped in some
:09:21. > :09:26.capacity, including some who, we understand, actually carried out
:09:27. > :09:34.some of the air strikes against Islamic state targets, which, the
:09:35. > :09:38.control said were damaged. The supplies themselves, supply depots
:09:39. > :09:46.and so on but also central command said separately the United States
:09:47. > :09:49.forces attacked a network of Al-Qaeda veterans who are serious
:09:50. > :09:53.Syria to plot attacks against Western interests and the United
:09:54. > :09:56.States, rere kruting Western fighters with those, experimenting
:09:57. > :10:01.with explosives and so on. That's separate from the Islamic state
:10:02. > :10:05.threat - Islamic state being the militant group that's focussed on
:10:06. > :10:08.the Middle East, crossing borders and taking territory which has
:10:09. > :10:13.helped the United States convince its allies that it is a threat to
:10:14. > :10:19.the region. Barbara, I would think it is quite a significant
:10:20. > :10:23.achievement for Mr Obama to get five Arab allies to join him in these air
:10:24. > :10:30.strikes? It is a very significant achievement. The Arab countries,
:10:31. > :10:36.Arab Sunni Muslim countries, do not like to be seen to be bombing other
:10:37. > :10:39.Arab countries or other Arab movement, especially a Sunni
:10:40. > :10:43.movement like Islamic state. That's an achievement in itself plus they
:10:44. > :10:46.have a lot of internal ditcheses and squabbles. They have different
:10:47. > :10:49.national interests and competing interests. They have backed
:10:50. > :10:55.different proximityies, for example, in the Syrian war. This is the one
:10:56. > :10:58.thing they can agree on, that Islamic state is a threat to all
:10:59. > :11:01.because it is expansionist, it is crossing borders, bumping up against
:11:02. > :11:05.their borders. The Jordanians are afraid because they have had
:11:06. > :11:10.skirmishes with Islamic state on fwhierders. Checkpoints have
:11:11. > :11:16.exchanged hands. The Americans are to convince the Islamic states that
:11:17. > :11:19.it threatens them. I think this is something that President Obama will
:11:20. > :11:23.highlight at the US General Assembly where he is set to make an
:11:24. > :11:26.appearance today and in a couple of days next week, where he will seek
:11:27. > :11:30.to strengthen the coalition and he will argue - I have support in the
:11:31. > :11:40.region, so you should support me, too. Thank you very much.
:11:41. > :11:44.We can speak now to the Conservative MP, John Baron, a member of the
:11:45. > :11:46.Foreign Affairs Select Ccommittee, who joins us from Westminster and
:11:47. > :11:49.Labour MP, John Woodcock, who takes a big interest in defence matters.
:11:50. > :11:56.John Baron, what do you see as the figures of this development of
:11:57. > :12:01.taking the war against IS into Syria? I think the good news is we
:12:02. > :12:05.are involving regional allies, it is very positive. The symbolism of the
:12:06. > :12:09.West alone defeating this caliphate would be profoundly negative. But,
:12:10. > :12:13.Andrew, certain key questions still remain unanswered. I mean, what is
:12:14. > :12:16.the follow-up plan? If we all accept that air strikes alone will not
:12:17. > :12:23.defeat IS, what is the follow-up plan? If there isn't one, we are
:12:24. > :12:27.entering a cul de sac. Secondly, if we degradism S sufficiently, who is
:12:28. > :12:37.going to take their place. -- de-Grade Icy. S sufficiently. Who
:12:38. > :12:42.will take their place? Thirdly, the Syrian war, last year we were siding
:12:43. > :12:46.the with the rebels, this year we seem to be now - is there a clear
:12:47. > :12:54.policy with this? And finally f we don't get Iraq right and drive IS
:12:55. > :13:03.out of northern Iraq, then actually Syria is almost an irrelevance. Do I
:13:04. > :13:08.take it from anything you have said that you are happy that is not
:13:09. > :13:12.involved in the air strikes? I am for the moment. We must be clear
:13:13. > :13:15.about this. These are questions that need answering before we can commit
:13:16. > :13:20.troops, air strikes and resource to this. Don't forget, Parliament is
:13:21. > :13:30.right to ask these questions. Our track record, invading Iraq in 2003,
:13:31. > :13:36.the disastrous Morphing of the Afghan nation -- war into nags
:13:37. > :13:41.building and in areas where civil wars have got so bad and changing
:13:42. > :13:45.sides in the civil war, we haven't covered ourself in glory. We need to
:13:46. > :13:47.make sure we are clear and have clear answers to these important
:13:48. > :13:52.questions. John Woodcock where are you on this? I think action is going
:13:53. > :13:55.to be necessary. I would like to see it led by Iraq and Syria's
:13:56. > :13:59.neighbours. I think it is pretty important. They are there with the
:14:00. > :14:05.Americans now. They are. For me it simply doesn't make sense for us to
:14:06. > :14:11.stand outside of that, given how we are directly affected. The British
:14:12. > :14:18.people are directly affected by the threat of allowing these Isil
:14:19. > :14:23.extremists to get a sustained foot hole. John Baron is right in the
:14:24. > :14:26.need to have a plan beyond this, but military action is not sufficient on
:14:27. > :14:31.its own but it is necessary to beat them back. I would feel deeply
:14:32. > :14:35.uncomfortable if we repeated what I believe was a mistake, in both the
:14:36. > :14:40.Prime Minister in screwing up the vote last year on Syria and also on
:14:41. > :14:44.my side in not backing it. To clarify, are you in favour of the
:14:45. > :14:48.British being involved in air raids, which include not just Iraq, but
:14:49. > :14:55.also Syria? Well, I think we should state that it is on a military
:14:56. > :15:00.level, in tackling Isil, it is right to want to take action across the
:15:01. > :15:05.border. Now, the legal question is different - and it has to be - that
:15:06. > :15:12.has to be resolved. But this is a border which, Isil themselves don't
:15:13. > :15:16.respect. Is poorest and we have a regime in Syria which the British
:15:17. > :15:17.Government doesn't respect as legitimate, so, there is a need to
:15:18. > :15:26.take action there. What does it do for our standing
:15:27. > :15:31.with Washington if most of America's allies seem to be involved
:15:32. > :15:36.in this except Britain? Sometimes it is right for good friends to ask
:15:37. > :15:39.serious questions. We did not participate in the Vietnam war and
:15:40. > :15:42.yet within 15 years of that war ending, we had the best of
:15:43. > :15:47.relationships. Sometimes you have got to ask awkward questions. In
:15:48. > :15:52.fact, friends thank you for that. There is no point looking at Syria
:15:53. > :15:55.if we cannot get Iraq right. We have an Iraqi army that seems to be doing
:15:56. > :16:01.nothing, despite being 20 times the size of ISIS. They should be driving
:16:02. > :16:04.ISIS out of northern Iraq. Meanwhile, it does come down to
:16:05. > :16:09.politics. Soldiers can only buy you time. In the politics of Iraq, there
:16:10. > :16:12.was no sign that we are making progress. We have got rid of the
:16:13. > :16:17.sectarian Nouri al-Maliki, but we are not sure that what has taken his
:16:18. > :16:24.place is inclusive. There are a lot of people in high positions in the
:16:25. > :16:27.political spectrum. John Woodcock, can I put to you your report in the
:16:28. > :16:32.New York Times this morning, which is just hitting the streets of
:16:33. > :16:35.America as we speak. After six weeks of American air strikes, the Iraqi
:16:36. > :16:39.government's forces have scarcely budged the Sunni extremists of
:16:40. > :16:46.Islamic State from their hold on more than a quarter of the country.
:16:47. > :16:49.They may have stopped the extremists' March, but they have not
:16:50. > :16:54.robbed them back. The government has acknowledged that it has lost
:16:55. > :16:59.control of another town to Islamic State. So air strikes are not having
:17:00. > :17:04.any effect. Well, you cannot necessarily draw from that that they
:17:05. > :17:07.are having no effect. They have stopped the advance, but they are
:17:08. > :17:13.not rolling them back. It could be that they need to be stepped up.
:17:14. > :17:16.This is after six weeks. That may suggest that there is an increased
:17:17. > :17:25.case for Britain to be part of the next wave. The alternative is a
:17:26. > :17:29.counsel of despair, to say there is nothing we can do. I understand why
:17:30. > :17:33.people look back at the history of Iraq over the last ten years and say
:17:34. > :17:39.we failed to do what we ought to have done as a country to
:17:40. > :17:44.reconstruct the country properly. But for me, that means we have an
:17:45. > :17:50.increased responsibility to stop ISIL getting a proper hold. We need
:17:51. > :18:01.to put the country on a more sustained footing. John Baron, you
:18:02. > :18:05.are in Westminster. Is Parliament going to be recalled on Friday? As
:18:06. > :18:09.far as many of us are concerned, there is no need to recall
:18:10. > :18:11.Parliament, provided that government policy does not change. The
:18:12. > :18:16.government said it is thinking about its options and it will consult
:18:17. > :18:19.Parliament if it wants to put a particular case for military
:18:20. > :18:22.intervention. So unless the government has changed its mind or
:18:23. > :18:26.it is going to take a course of action which it thinks contravenes
:18:27. > :18:29.the promise it made to many of us that it will not take action unless
:18:30. > :18:35.they have recalled parliament, there is no need. So if Parliament is
:18:36. > :18:39.recalled, your view is that that will be because the Prime Minister
:18:40. > :18:46.wants to change policy and get parliament to approve the bombing of
:18:47. > :18:50.Iraq and probably Syria? We have a cast-iron promise from the
:18:51. > :18:55.government. A number of us secured this, that there will be no military
:18:56. > :18:59.intervention without Parliament's consent. So if he recalls
:19:00. > :19:05.Parliament, the implication is that he wants to change policy or has
:19:06. > :19:09.decided on a policy where he needs the consent of Parliament. Until we
:19:10. > :19:15.get to that point, there is no need to recall Parliament. The official
:19:16. > :19:24.line from the government, quite rightly, is that we are reviewing
:19:25. > :19:30.our options. Only fools rush in, and I'm afraid the UK, in the past, has
:19:31. > :19:35.been doubtful too often. -- that fool. John Woodcock, do the
:19:36. > :19:40.Americans really care? They have massive airpower in the region. They
:19:41. > :19:42.have five Arab allies involved in the air strikes, which is very
:19:43. > :19:48.symbolic. The French are there as well. Our contribution militarily
:19:49. > :19:52.would be marginal. They don't need us. Well, the British armed forces
:19:53. > :19:58.remain one of the best in the world. I think it is in our interest as a
:19:59. > :20:05.country to be part of this. They don't need our air force. Actually,
:20:06. > :20:11.if we do intervene, it will be so that we can add value properly. We
:20:12. > :20:17.have the capacity to do that, and there are wider benefits from us
:20:18. > :20:24.being part of a coalition which is being underpinned by America, but is
:20:25. > :20:31.being led by the Arab neighbours of a state which is deeply threatening
:20:32. > :20:36.to those countries. Thank you both for joining us.
:20:37. > :20:39.Here is what the Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander had to
:20:40. > :20:44.say about the latest developments in Syria a few moments ago. ISIL
:20:45. > :20:47.represent a threat not just a regional security in the Middle
:20:48. > :20:51.East, but to international security. So we understand and
:20:52. > :20:57.support the action that has been taken both by the United States and
:20:58. > :21:00.Arab allies in recent hours. But the Prime Minister and the president are
:21:01. > :21:04.due in the United Nations this week, so we are now urging that a
:21:05. > :21:07.resolution be brought to the Security Council of the United
:21:08. > :21:13.Nations. Let's go now to JoCo, who has
:21:14. > :21:17.arrived in Manchester. She is lurking somewhere in the conference
:21:18. > :21:23.centre. In fact, I am right outside the hall
:21:24. > :21:29.where the speed she will be given later today. A highlight of any
:21:30. > :21:33.party conference is the leader's speech, so how will Ed Miliband fair
:21:34. > :21:38.this afternoon? Some say a lot depends on how people perceive the
:21:39. > :21:41.speech giver. So we have taken a look at Ed's poll ratings over his
:21:42. > :21:46.time as Labour leader. Ed Miliband wants to pull it out of
:21:47. > :21:49.the bag with his speech today, but his personal poll ratings are
:21:50. > :21:56.consistently week. In January 2011, people did not like him. He had an
:21:57. > :22:03.approval rating of -15, which decreased to -19 by October 2012 and
:22:04. > :22:08.plummeted to -33 on August 2013. It is now -32. David Cameron fared
:22:09. > :22:15.better over the same period, with approval ratings of one, -13 and
:22:16. > :22:19.-11, rising back to -1 this month. Even in Scotland, Ed was unable to
:22:20. > :22:25.edge in front of the Prime Minister. On the eve of the referendum, 25% of
:22:26. > :22:28.Scots trust of him, compared with 26% for the Prime Minister. But
:22:29. > :22:33.perhaps it does not matter what Ed says today. His current popularity
:22:34. > :22:37.rating may be at -32%, but this has not affected perceptions of Labour.
:22:38. > :22:46.They are the only party with a positive rating, at a lofty 6%.
:22:47. > :22:49.Let's talk to Ben Page, the chief executive of Ipsos MORI. So in
:22:50. > :22:55.short, listening to those figures, people broadly like the band, but
:22:56. > :22:59.not the lead singer? Absolutely. Ed Miliband's ratings have drifted down
:23:00. > :23:03.slowly ever since he became leader and are now similar to those of
:23:04. > :23:07.William Hague before the 2001 general election, which he did not
:23:08. > :23:13.win. But is there a difference between poor poll ratings for
:23:14. > :23:18.leaders, who also have poor ratings for the party they represent? Here,
:23:19. > :23:22.the party is more popular than the leader. Can Labour still win with
:23:23. > :23:26.those personal poll ratings? It has not been done before, but the fact
:23:27. > :23:29.that the Labour Party remains popular than the Conservative Party
:23:30. > :23:33.not in the vote but if you ask people about how they just feel
:23:34. > :23:37.about the parties, the Conservatives are the most unpopular party. 57% of
:23:38. > :23:41.us say we don't like them. So although Cameron does better, he is
:23:42. > :23:45.not President Obama or Tony Blair better. And the party is making up
:23:46. > :23:51.for some of Ed Miliband's weaknesses. So with this talk about
:23:52. > :23:55.presidential style elections here in Britain, are you saying that if all
:23:56. > :23:59.three leaders do not pull brilliantly, Ed Miliband fares
:24:00. > :24:03.better? Yes. It is not just how you do, but who you are up against. If
:24:04. > :24:07.your competitor is not brilliant either, you have a better chance
:24:08. > :24:13.full of the net ratings of all three main party leaders are now some of
:24:14. > :24:17.the lowest they have ever been. People are also not just voting on
:24:18. > :24:19.the character of the leaders. Even in 2010 during the leadership
:24:20. > :24:25.debates, people said they were as likely to vote on the policies of
:24:26. > :24:28.the party as well as the leaders. Since the 2010 election, perhaps
:24:29. > :24:33.because it is a ox on all your houses, they are more likely to say
:24:34. > :24:38.it is about policy. So it does not help, but he is certainly not down
:24:39. > :24:42.and out. So you are saying that if Labour wins, they win by the fault
:24:43. > :24:47.rather than taking a nation with an? Yes, this is what we call the war of
:24:48. > :24:52.the week. How inspiring! That is where we are. All precedents suggest
:24:53. > :24:56.that this election will be very close. Ed Miliband cannot afford to
:24:57. > :25:01.mess up this afternoon or on any other occasion. But he is not down
:25:02. > :25:05.and out, particularly as he only needs a 2.8% lead in the polls to be
:25:06. > :25:10.in with a chance of winning. What about when people are standing in
:25:11. > :25:15.the polling booth? If you are not a tribal party voter and you always do
:25:16. > :25:19.not put a cross by one of the main parties, what will be the deciding
:25:20. > :25:23.factor? Is it not who you imagine as Prime Minister? There is and to
:25:24. > :25:30.that. Lynton Crosby, the Conservatives' adviser, will be
:25:31. > :25:35.trying to focus on that. Labour will try to focus on their competence
:25:36. > :25:47.over things like the NHS. So it is extra things. -- a mixture of
:25:48. > :25:50.things. So even if they did not like Ed Miliband, people could easily put
:25:51. > :25:55.a cross by Labour? Well, they already do in the polls all the
:25:56. > :26:01.time. His ratings even amongst Labour voters are fairly divided
:26:02. > :26:04.compared to David Cameron's ratings among conservative voters, and yet
:26:05. > :26:10.they are ahead in the polls. But about comparisons with Tony Blair?
:26:11. > :26:15.He rated extremely high. Tony Blair is exceptional. I doubt I will ever
:26:16. > :26:19.see anybody win three consecutive elections as a Labour leader. His
:26:20. > :26:22.ratings after he became Prime Minister and running up to becoming
:26:23. > :26:26.Prime Minister work pretty much unprecedented, far better than Mrs
:26:27. > :26:33.Thatcher's. Tony Blair was a phenomenon. Ed Miliband may not
:26:34. > :26:44.compare to that. And he probably would not want to. But does he need
:26:45. > :26:50.to improve from the -32? He needs to set up to his stall clearly. He
:26:51. > :26:54.cannot ever be "normal", here's a north London intellectual. I don't
:26:55. > :26:58.know what advice he is getting about speech delivery and style. These
:26:59. > :27:01.things do matter. It is like job interviews. They say people make up
:27:02. > :27:10.their mind in the first 16 seconds, and he needs to work on that.
:27:11. > :27:16.Now, he has been credited by some for saving the union, because you
:27:17. > :27:19.can never be sure, but Gordon Brown's late intervention in the
:27:20. > :27:22.referendum campaign, with his passionate speeches, certainly
:27:23. > :27:26.brought the no campaign some much-needed energy. So is it time
:27:27. > :27:29.for the former Prime Minister to make a comeback? We sent Adam out
:27:30. > :27:32.with his balls to find out what people think.
:27:33. > :27:36.There is a lot of buzz around Gordon Brown, who found a new lease of life
:27:37. > :27:41.on the independence referendum campaign trail. But do people want
:27:42. > :27:46.him on the front line of politics, or should he stay on the
:27:47. > :27:50.backbenches? It is ironic that David Cameron, of all people, had to ask
:27:51. > :27:58.Gordon Brown to rescue the no campaign. So a man of his ability
:27:59. > :28:04.should begin in consideration. I think he should be on the Treasury.
:28:05. > :28:11.Like Shadow Chancellor? Maybe not, maybe something like a junior. Do
:28:12. > :28:16.you think Lord Browne would accept a junior spokesperson's roll? I don't
:28:17. > :28:22.see that -- Gordon Brown. You would have him back straightaway? Yes. You
:28:23. > :28:29.think history has treated him unfairly? He saved all my savings,
:28:30. > :28:33.thank you, Gordon. I would say backbench in England, front line for
:28:34. > :28:38.Scotland. He could make a huge difference in Scotland. Johann
:28:39. > :28:41.Lamont did not want to do our survey on which is maybe just as well,
:28:42. > :28:49.because many have said Gordon Brown should replace her. His plans were
:28:50. > :28:53.excellent for the economy, but people did not believe him. But he
:28:54. > :29:01.did lose the last election spectacularly. Yet, because people
:29:02. > :29:08.believed the press. Let's find out if Gordon is selling well here. At
:29:09. > :29:15.the book shop. Is Gordon Brown's took flying off the shelves? -- his
:29:16. > :29:19.book? Not especially. A bunch of lads did come in yesterday just to
:29:20. > :29:29.touch Tony Blair's face. It is true! He just seems to have a
:29:30. > :29:36.different spunk to him, if that is a word I can use. Is Ed Miliband less
:29:37. > :29:44.punky? Most definitely. The UN Gordon still speak? -- to you and
:29:45. > :29:48.Gordon still speak? It was a fair fight, I just felt he would not win
:29:49. > :29:55.the election for us. I will take that as a no. No, we speak. No hard
:29:56. > :30:01.feelings? We share a lift and we have a chat, usually about football.
:30:02. > :30:08.If he comes around the corner, I am going to cry. These of joy? I am not
:30:09. > :30:11.sure joy is the word. Given in Duncan 's at the moment and the
:30:12. > :30:18.hardship he is putting a lot of people through, Gordon Brown could
:30:19. > :30:24.be a good antidote. Have you just fired a ritual reeves on television
:30:25. > :30:27.and replaced her with Gordon Brown? Ask Rupert Murdoch and his friend
:30:28. > :30:34.Alex Salmond to play bloody games, don't ask me. Would you like to give
:30:35. > :30:37.him a toast? To Gordon! Well, the man himself says he is too old to be
:30:38. > :30:40.a comeback kid and too young to be an elder statesman, but the message
:30:41. > :30:46.from Labour Party conference is clear. Gordon, they want you back.
:30:47. > :30:48.I'm joined now by the Shadow Energy Secretary, Caroline Flint.
:30:49. > :30:56.Do you want Gordon back? I tell you what, it was great having Gordon
:30:57. > :30:59.back a few weeks ago. He may not be on the frontbench in Parliament but
:31:00. > :31:03.he is still there when you need him on the frontline of politics. Nobody
:31:04. > :31:06.can take away from him what a great character but also force he has on
:31:07. > :31:10.that one. Interesting point. What is the answer to my question. I think
:31:11. > :31:13.it is about the role he wants to play. We have a team, under Ed
:31:14. > :31:16.Miliband, and we are going to take that forward. I'm not going to
:31:17. > :31:21.second-guess what Gordon wants to do. I was asking what you wanted him
:31:22. > :31:25.toy do. He may be asking now. What should he do? It is good to see you,
:31:26. > :31:30.Gordon in the frontline of politics. It is good to have you when we need
:31:31. > :31:34.you and it is good when you are part of my team. You won't answer my
:31:35. > :31:38.question. I have. Should he come back? I think he has his own future
:31:39. > :31:41.he is thinking about. I think we have a good team, an excellent team
:31:42. > :31:46.to lead us into the next general election. You once say he used you
:31:47. > :31:49.as window dressing Said on that area I disagreed with Gordon because he
:31:50. > :31:54.wasn't giving women enough prominence in the Cabinet. I stand
:31:55. > :31:57.by that. I never take away the contribution Gordon played as
:31:58. > :32:02.Chancellor and our party and last week he stepped up when you needed
:32:03. > :32:05.him. Why didn't Ed Miliband thank him yesterday when he thanked
:32:06. > :32:10.everybody else for saving the union. I think he has many times. He didn't
:32:11. > :32:15.do it yesterday when he was going through the roll call. And the man,
:32:16. > :32:19.who many here think really saved the union, didn't get a thank you from
:32:20. > :32:24.Ed Miliband. I think Gordon Brown knows how much he is appreciated. He
:32:25. > :32:30.was overshadowed by Mr Brown. Ed Miliband had no cut through in
:32:31. > :32:36.Scotland it was Mr Brown. I tell you who had cut through. When you have
:32:37. > :32:40.Gordon and Allister and Margaret, playing the role, what has cut
:32:41. > :32:44.through is the policies we are putting forward which Scots
:32:45. > :32:49.recognise will be good for them. If that has cut through, why is Ed
:32:50. > :32:55.Miliband's personal ratings lower than Mr Camerons? Personal ratings,
:32:56. > :33:01.may not show how people are going to vote but when you look... Lower than
:33:02. > :33:04.the Prime Minister Some Prime Minister like Margaret Thatcher's
:33:05. > :33:09.personal ratings haven't been that high. When you did ask people about
:33:10. > :33:12.who is most in touch, they say Ed Miliband, and when you put forward
:33:13. > :33:16.the policies helping people, they are more popular than what Cameron
:33:17. > :33:20.is espousing. Lets look at policies. This mansion tax, how much money
:33:21. > :33:25.will it raise? We are looking at well over ?1 billion. How much over?
:33:26. > :33:30.Well, I think it is about ?1.5 billion to ?2 billion. It is not
:33:31. > :33:33.quite clear at the moment. Hold on. The amount matters. Of course it
:33:34. > :33:38.matters. You have said this money is going to the NHS, to make up a short
:33:39. > :33:42.fall Hang on a second. So how much will the NHS get from the mansion
:33:43. > :33:46.tax? Hang on a second. We have said we will have a mansion tax. That has
:33:47. > :33:49.been on the stock. What we haven't declareside where the money will be
:33:50. > :33:52.going. Ed Miliband will be making in his speech this afternoon, details
:33:53. > :33:55.about the NHS and I will not second guess that. We have been briefed by
:33:56. > :33:59.the Labour Party that the mansion tax proceeds will go to the NHS.
:34:00. > :34:02.Have you not been told that? Ed Miliband is making his speech this
:34:03. > :34:06.afternoon. We have already been told that's what he is going to say. Can
:34:07. > :34:10.I get back to the money. How much do you think this mansion tax will
:34:11. > :34:14.raise? If the mansion tax is going to support the NHS, it is not the
:34:15. > :34:18.only thing we need to look at in terms of the NHS. I understand that.
:34:19. > :34:20.I will come on to other things. Caroline Flint, you are announcing
:34:21. > :34:24.policy. You bring in the mansion tax, part of the extra funding for
:34:25. > :34:27.the NHS, you have a duty to the people watching this programme to
:34:28. > :34:29.tell them how much will it will bring in. Ed Miliband will be
:34:30. > :34:34.outlining this afternoon in his speech how the mansion tax will be
:34:35. > :34:39.used. Can I say about the NHS, part is also saving money currently being
:34:40. > :34:42.wasted and making sure we get value for bringing health and social care
:34:43. > :34:45.together and quality and also to make sure we get value for money.
:34:46. > :34:49.Gep, the kangesds - the Liberal Democrats claimed the mansion tax
:34:50. > :34:54.would bring in ?1.7 billion. Interesting your policy advisors
:34:55. > :34:59.saying only ?1.2 billion. Let me ask you this, because it is becoming a
:35:00. > :35:02.key part of your pitch that Mr Miliband will announce it this
:35:03. > :35:05.afternoon. How will you go about identifying those houses that are
:35:06. > :35:09.worth over ?2 million. That will be part of the detail we will be
:35:10. > :35:15.looking at with Ed Balls and their team and setting out that in due
:35:16. > :35:19.course. The mansion tax is one part of our policy. You are talking about
:35:20. > :35:24.it as if it is the only policy. I perfectly accept it is not. It is
:35:25. > :35:28.not in itself the major plank. How will you identify those homes that
:35:29. > :35:32.are worth more than ?2 million, without having a property valuation
:35:33. > :35:36.across the country?. That is something we will be consulting on.
:35:37. > :35:41.We will outline the details in due course. You must have given thought
:35:42. > :35:46.to T Thought has been given to it. Share those with me Advice has been
:35:47. > :35:49.given in different quarters. We have not identified exactly how we will
:35:50. > :35:52.do that. We will set out our ideas. Consultation will make that happen.
:35:53. > :35:56.Will the mansion tax apply to Scotland? It is an English situation
:35:57. > :35:59.at the moment. But we will take soundings from our Scottish
:36:00. > :36:03.colleagues as well. It won't apply to Scotland? Those are the issues we
:36:04. > :36:07.have to talk about with our Scottish and Welsh colleagues in the devolved
:36:08. > :36:10.parliaments and Assembly. If it doesn't apply to Scotland, would it
:36:11. > :36:14.be right that Scottish MPs could vote on a mansion tax that applies
:36:15. > :36:18.only to England? I think there is going to be a huge debate over the
:36:19. > :36:22.course of the next year. Would that be fair? Hang on a second. There
:36:23. > :36:25.will be a huge debate over the course of the next year about more
:36:26. > :36:28.devolutionary powers to Scotland but also what should happen in England.
:36:29. > :36:32.Part that of discussion will undoubtedly be around English MPs
:36:33. > :36:36.and their power to scrutinise legislation just for England. I'm
:36:37. > :36:40.sure it'll come out in due course. Let's talk about where the other
:36:41. > :36:43.money has come from, because NHS England, let's stick with England,
:36:44. > :36:47.predicts the health service needs an extra ?30 billion over the five or
:36:48. > :36:52.six years. The mansion tax, when you work it out, may give you about ?5
:36:53. > :36:56.billion of that. Where is the other ?25 billion coming from? Tlard
:36:57. > :36:59.issues in the NHS. There is no doubt about that. -- there are hard
:37:00. > :37:02.issues. Part of the problem is money has been wasted on the
:37:03. > :37:06.reorganisation but also, I have to say, if I look at something like
:37:07. > :37:10.health and social care, not just as a politician in Westminster but a
:37:11. > :37:14.local MP, I know there are lots of savings that can be made by bringing
:37:15. > :37:19.that together. How much of savings of the ?25 billen still outstanding?
:37:20. > :37:23.It is about setting out our priorities to tackle this. There is
:37:24. > :37:27.no simple way for me today to say - this is where you are going to find
:37:28. > :37:30.T it is good accouncy, value for money and making sense of the
:37:31. > :37:33.services you provide and making sure the money is not going on corporate
:37:34. > :37:37.lawyers aimed at putting services out to tender. You said to me, when
:37:38. > :37:41.we started the interview, it is not just the mansion tax to give us
:37:42. > :37:45.extra money for the NHS, we should talk about the other areas. I am now
:37:46. > :37:52.asking you, where does the other ?25 billion come from? Part of what we
:37:53. > :37:56.can contribute in the NHS is making better use of health and social care
:37:57. > :37:59.where there is a lot of repetition. How much of that will be the ?25
:38:00. > :38:02.billion? More of the details of this policy Ed Miliband will be outlining
:38:03. > :38:05.this afternoon. That's for him to announce. You can't tell me where
:38:06. > :38:08.the other ?25 billion is coming from I'm telling you, there is a speech
:38:09. > :38:12.this afternoon where Ed Miliband will outline what we can do to
:38:13. > :38:16.support the NHS going forward. It is a huge challenge, you are right.
:38:17. > :38:19.Unforetoon ately. Will he tell us where the other ?25 billion is
:38:20. > :38:22.coming from? Despite organisation, we find we are losing money and
:38:23. > :38:26.people can't see a GP and waiting times are going up. I understand all
:38:27. > :38:30.of that, I wanted answers on the money. Anyway, we'll wait for the
:38:31. > :38:35.speech and see if it is more illuminating. Good.
:38:36. > :38:38.As we talked about earlier the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary,
:38:39. > :38:41.Rachel Reeves, had a tricky exchange on the radio this morning.
:38:42. > :38:42.Yesterday afternoon, however, she had an easier ride
:38:43. > :38:51.Be incoming Labour Government will have to make tough choices on
:38:52. > :38:56.resources and priorities. -- an incoming Labour Government. But
:38:57. > :39:00.we'll tackle the reasons for the rising Social Security bill by
:39:01. > :39:04.building an economic recovery that leaves no-one behind, which is how
:39:05. > :39:08.we can share a system that is fair and affordable so we can keep up our
:39:09. > :39:12.fight against child and pensioner poverty, upholding and renewing the
:39:13. > :39:15.principles upon which our welfare state was built. Responsibility and
:39:16. > :39:19.opportunity for all who can work, dignity for those who cannot. Hard
:39:20. > :39:24.work and contribution, recognised and rewarded. Those are my values
:39:25. > :39:30.and this is my mission. So, this is how we will deliver it. Step one, a
:39:31. > :39:33.compulsory jobs guarantee to help all young people into work, so
:39:34. > :39:39.no-one is left be unemployment benefits for years on end. Step two,
:39:40. > :39:43.a basic skills test so we intervene early to tackle skills gaps so
:39:44. > :39:46.no-one is left for a life on benefits. Step three, a youth
:39:47. > :39:50.allowance that means young people who lack key qualifications are
:39:51. > :39:55.expected and supported to get the skills they need. Step four, replace
:39:56. > :40:00.the failing work programme, with power devolved to local councils and
:40:01. > :40:06.communities, rather than topdown contracts signed in Whitehall.
:40:07. > :40:11.APPLAUSE Step five, ensure that the pensions
:40:12. > :40:16.market works for all working people, so we can save for our retirement
:40:17. > :40:20.with confidence. Step six, ensure that disabled people who can work,
:40:21. > :40:25.get the tailored support that they need.
:40:26. > :40:28.Right. That was Rachael Reeves this morningment let's go back to Jo.
:40:29. > :40:32.-- this morning. UKIP is just the Conservatives
:40:33. > :40:34.problem - right? Nigel Farage has often claimed that
:40:35. > :40:38.UKIP also appeals to a large number of traditional Labour
:40:39. > :40:40.supporters as well. So, has Labour awoken too late
:40:41. > :40:43.to the threat UKIP might pose? They may not take any of Labour's
:40:44. > :40:46.seats, but in key marginals Labour need to
:40:47. > :40:50.win, they could take vital votes. Giles has been to Thurrock where
:40:51. > :41:05.Labour are having to battle Thurrock in Essex has had better
:41:06. > :41:11.times. Deepwater docks that hired workers to haul goods, not shopping
:41:12. > :41:14.and paid good wages to pay for T but memberisation and zero hours
:41:15. > :41:17.contracts means less so, now. It has a rapedly changing community and
:41:18. > :41:20.immigration is a word as common here as the desire to make your heritage
:41:21. > :41:27.very clear. A population that has now had a
:41:28. > :41:32.Labour and Tory MP is being fiercely wooed by UKIP. One ex-Labour man is
:41:33. > :41:37.on the council for them. We are niend this country with regards
:41:38. > :41:41.aschools, housing, jobs, you name T -- we are behind in this country.
:41:42. > :41:45.You only have to look around. You go to any building site you wish and
:41:46. > :41:49.you would be lucky to hear an English voice. We don't blame the
:41:50. > :41:52.guys coming over, obviously from where they are from, they are trying
:41:53. > :41:59.to better themselves but what about us? What about our people? Surely we
:42:00. > :42:05.should come first. Labour, on the ground here, are well aware of those
:42:06. > :42:09.attitudes. If Thurrock contains enough blue-collar, fewer
:42:10. > :42:13.qualifications working white people, who once sat comfortableably as
:42:14. > :42:16.Labour, it also happens that's the same demographic who have the
:42:17. > :42:19.potential to see UKIP as an option. UKIP fancy their chances here at the
:42:20. > :42:23.general election but some Labour-supporting analysts say the
:42:24. > :42:27.real risk here for the party and in other seats like it, is Labour's
:42:28. > :42:33.challenge to the Conservatives - whose majority here is just 93 -
:42:34. > :42:38.gets blunted by UKIP. If that happened in enough marginals Labour
:42:39. > :42:44.want for a majority, it might cost them Number Ten. It it is not just
:42:45. > :42:48.UKIP who say they are a threat to Labour. Serious Labour people who
:42:49. > :42:51.want a victory at the next election have been krnching numbers and
:42:52. > :42:55.looking at this for sometime. What -- crunching numbers. And what is
:42:56. > :42:59.interesting, when they presented this to the hierarchy at the top,
:43:00. > :43:04.they have told me that sometimes, at best the reaction is luke warm, at
:43:05. > :43:08.worst, openly hostile. At door-to-door level, Labour's
:43:09. > :43:13.candidate knows general offers and national promises alone aren't going
:43:14. > :43:16.to cut it and here, issues need to be confronted head-on. I think one
:43:17. > :43:20.of the most important things we have done since 2010 is admit we made
:43:21. > :43:24.mistakes on immigration. We did make mistakes on immigration. Let me make
:43:25. > :43:28.it clear - there is nothing in Labour's values or policy that
:43:29. > :43:32.should be in favour of unlimited immigration. There is nothing
:43:33. > :43:36.progressive about that as a policy because the unfairness and of the
:43:37. > :43:39.impact are really adverse for communities that really struggle.
:43:40. > :43:44.The poor, the people who don't have very many skills and so forth. We
:43:45. > :43:47.always believe in managed migration and that needs to be very, very
:43:48. > :43:52.clearly said, we have learned the lessons of what we did when it went
:43:53. > :43:54.wrong and we are going to do it differently in the future. A were
:43:55. > :43:59.posed policy of banning agencies that hire foreign-only workers is an
:44:00. > :44:02.example of how the campaign in author rock has gone some way to
:44:03. > :44:06.forging Labour tactics on policy on how to hold on to and convince those
:44:07. > :44:10.who might be tempted by UKIP but those who pound the pavements can
:44:11. > :44:15.vansing here know this is a serious task and it is not going to get any
:44:16. > :44:17.easier in the run of had up to the election next year.
:44:18. > :44:20.And I'm joined now by the Labour MP for Rochdale, Simon Danczuk.
:44:21. > :44:26.How worried are you about UKIP? Well, they certainly pose a
:44:27. > :44:30.challenge to the Labour Party, as they do to the Conservative Party.
:44:31. > :44:34.We can't be complacent about them. They are opportunists, and they will
:44:35. > :44:38.try and score points and try and win votes. We have to work hard against
:44:39. > :44:42.them. Have you woken up too late to the threat, though? I think we need
:44:43. > :44:46.to be aware of the threat from UKIP. More than aware. Don't you have to
:44:47. > :44:50.be combatting it? Absolutely. I think from Ed Miliband today we will
:44:51. > :44:53.see a raft the policies in terms of the National Health Service,
:44:54. > :44:57.apprenticeships and house building, and these are the policies that will
:44:58. > :45:00.appeal to people but we still need to be stronger in terms of
:45:01. > :45:04.immigration and welfare reform. There is still much to talk about.
:45:05. > :45:08.But I think we'll get a strong flavour for it today from Ed. Let's
:45:09. > :45:12.talk about the offer being made, who does Ed Miliband have to appeal to,
:45:13. > :45:21.in your mind, for Labour to hold on to those seats in the north, where
:45:22. > :45:26.UKIP are posing a challenge? He has to appeal to everybody. With UKIP
:45:27. > :45:30.coming into the frame, which could see interesting results. There are
:45:31. > :45:34.disaffected voters who were anti-the last government. UKIP could take
:45:35. > :45:37.votes from the Tories and from labour, so we have to work hard for
:45:38. > :45:43.each vote and aid is committed to doing that. The blue-collar vote.
:45:44. > :45:49.What direct appeal must he make to those sorts of voters? He has to
:45:50. > :45:53.talk strongly about immigration and welfare reform. He also has to talk
:45:54. > :45:59.about what it means to be English and how important it is to be
:46:00. > :46:02.devolved in the regions. Let's come on to devolution, because that issue
:46:03. > :46:06.has exploded onto the scene since the result of the Scottish
:46:07. > :46:09.referendum. At a fringe meeting at this conference, you said Ed
:46:10. > :46:13.Miliband has to come out with a road map for English devolution in his
:46:14. > :46:18.speech, or he is in trouble. What should Labour's position be? We
:46:19. > :46:22.should talk about key principles. We should say it is not acceptable for
:46:23. > :46:28.Scottish MPs to vote on English-only laws. We should also say we are not
:46:29. > :46:34.happy with the Barnett formula and how that arranges money in favour of
:46:35. > :46:43.Scotland but against places like Rochdale. We also want some momentum
:46:44. > :46:50.in relation to devolution. We can get down to the detail to replace
:46:51. > :46:54.what we currently have. So you agree with English votes for English laws,
:46:55. > :46:57.which would of course deprive many Labour Scottish MPs in any future
:46:58. > :47:01.Parliament of voting on those issues. We were slow off the mark
:47:02. > :47:06.and we allowed Cameron to get his foot in the door and make his
:47:07. > :47:10.offer. But all he has offered is very limited. It is just about the
:47:11. > :47:15.Westminster bubble, moving the deck chairs around in Parliament. People
:47:16. > :47:19.want more than that. The English people have been talking about this
:47:20. > :47:25.for some time and they want government to be closer to the
:47:26. > :47:30.people. The principal has to be that Scottish MPs should not vote on
:47:31. > :47:35.English-only legislation. But the future could then be very difficult
:47:36. > :47:38.for Ed Miliband to be Prime Minister of the UK Government when he is
:47:39. > :47:40.reliant on those MPs in Scotland. You would not have a majority on
:47:41. > :47:46.things like the Budget. David Cameron set out his all in terms of
:47:47. > :47:50.devolution. He is playing party politics with it, because he knows
:47:51. > :47:56.it works to the Tories' advantage. I'm talking about what is best for
:47:57. > :48:02.England. We want to devolve powers right down to the people. I am sure
:48:03. > :48:11.Ed Miliband will say something about it today.
:48:12. > :48:17.Let's pick up on some of these issues now the Shadow Communities
:48:18. > :48:22.Secretary Hilary Benn. Lebron P Simon Danczuk was saying it is not
:48:23. > :48:28.acceptable for Scottish MPs to vote on English-only laws. There is an
:48:29. > :48:32.issue here, we have accepted that. The Prime Minister has not made a
:48:33. > :48:37.specific proposal. What does his phrase, English votes for English
:48:38. > :48:43.laws mean? It is not the only anomaly in Westminster. For example,
:48:44. > :48:46.as a Leeds MP, I cannot vote on transport issues to do with London
:48:47. > :48:50.because it has been devolved to the mayor. London MPs can vote on
:48:51. > :48:54.transport issues in Leeds. So there are a number of is to look at. The
:48:55. > :48:58.Prime Minister was wrong to try and link that honouring the vow to the
:48:59. > :49:05.people of Scotland that was made in the run-up to the referendum. He has
:49:06. > :49:08.now had to row back from that. If you are going to change our
:49:09. > :49:12.Constitution, to answer a question that has been around for 120 years,
:49:13. > :49:17.you have to take people with you. But it is not complicated. All you
:49:18. > :49:21.would need is a standing order to say that if the legislation does not
:49:22. > :49:26.apply to Scotland, that Scottish MPs to vote on it. But would that be on
:49:27. > :49:38.second reading? It would be throughout. Surely that would only
:49:39. > :49:42.be democratic? What do you then do, as Simon acknowledged in that
:49:43. > :49:45.interview when the question was put to him, the Prime Minister has a
:49:46. > :49:49.majority in the United Kingdom but did not have a majority in England?
:49:50. > :49:53.You cannot have two centres of power in a single Parliament. Well, it
:49:54. > :49:58.would mean that the Prime Minister of the day did not have a majority
:49:59. > :50:01.to enforce all of his or her English agenda and would have to do what
:50:02. > :50:05.they do in Europe every day, which is come to some agreement to put
:50:06. > :50:12.together a coalition of support. That is a recipe for deadlock. If
:50:13. > :50:15.the Prime Minister really thought this was the way forward, he could
:50:16. > :50:23.argue for an English Parliament. I don't support that, and he says he
:50:24. > :50:27.does not support that. But if you have not got a majority in England,
:50:28. > :50:32.save for your education reforms, and you could only put in these
:50:33. > :50:37.education reforms by depending on Scottish MPs, where is the fairness
:50:38. > :50:41.of the democracy in that? But how can you explain to the British
:50:42. > :50:45.people in those circumstances? In fairness, there have only been two
:50:46. > :50:52.occasions and is 1919 when there has not been a majority in both the
:50:53. > :50:59.United Kingdom and England. That was between 1916 four and 1966 and
:51:00. > :51:02.during the elections in 1970. The Prime Minister would have to say,
:51:03. > :51:07.sorry, I cannot help you because that is being dealt with by another
:51:08. > :51:11.centre of power. You cannot run a single Parliament on that basis. But
:51:12. > :51:15.surely the principle is right that if you do not win a majority of MPs
:51:16. > :51:21.in England, to implement the English part of your manifesto, you should
:51:22. > :51:36.not be allowed to implement it? What about the West Ealing question? It
:51:37. > :51:45.does matter. You have to have an answer to the West Ealing question.
:51:46. > :51:49.It is a principle, because you have got two examples of voting on things
:51:50. > :51:59.that are going to affect their constituents. Inviting William Hague
:52:00. > :52:02.to Chequers and saying, let's sort it out now, is not the way to deal
:52:03. > :52:11.with changes to the British constitution. But the poll suggests
:52:12. > :52:15.that more people want the English votes for English laws solution than
:52:16. > :52:22.they want more layers of government. The last time you tried it, you lost
:52:23. > :52:26.out by 78% of the people against you. But we are not proposing new
:52:27. > :52:35.layers of government. We are proposing to devolve to the existing
:52:36. > :52:42.authorities. Manchester has commanding authority, and Leeds has
:52:43. > :52:45.got one as well. These are local elected representatives think
:52:46. > :52:50.central government, give us the tools, and we will do the job. But
:52:51. > :52:54.that is decentralisation rather than devolution. How does it benefit you
:52:55. > :53:01.if you live in Lincolnshire or a area not covered by that? I want
:53:02. > :53:04.those areas to be covered. The government has failed to say to
:53:05. > :53:10.rural England, you get organised and we will devolve power to you. This
:53:11. > :53:15.is an offer for all parts of England. You are on the wrong side
:53:16. > :53:19.of public opinion on this. There was overwhelming support for English
:53:20. > :53:22.votes for English laws. Indeed, most Scots think it is only fair that
:53:23. > :53:28.Scottish MPs should not vote in English-only matters. I acknowledge
:53:29. > :53:32.that there is an issue here that we need to look at, but you have to
:53:33. > :53:35.have a proper process for doing it. The Prime Minister has not brought
:53:36. > :53:39.forward a specific proposal. There are other anomalies within the
:53:40. > :53:46.system. We need a national debate and we need to reach an agreement.
:53:47. > :53:48.But at the same time, Ed's speech will be about what will really make
:53:49. > :53:53.a difference to the lives of my constituents. Will they have higher
:53:54. > :53:56.pay if they are on the minimum wage? Will they have an energy price
:53:57. > :54:00.freeze? Are we going to build more homes? Are we going to provide
:54:01. > :54:04.childcare? Those are the things that matter.
:54:05. > :54:07.Now, early this morning, the Shadow Transport Secretary Mary Creagh
:54:08. > :54:11.outlined Labour's plans on transport. She lauded Manchester's
:54:12. > :54:16.proud rail history. We are sitting in what used to be a railway
:54:17. > :54:21.station, reminding constituents of that. Here is what she had to say.
:54:22. > :54:25.Today, I will set out how Ed Miliband's Labour government will
:54:26. > :54:28.deliver the big change we need in transport. It changed to deliver our
:54:29. > :54:34.national infrastructure. Big change to tackle the cost of transport and
:54:35. > :54:39.to give London-style transport powers to other areas. Big change to
:54:40. > :54:43.make our roads safer. A Labour government will deliver the biggest
:54:44. > :54:48.reform of the railways since privatisation to deliver a better
:54:49. > :54:52.deal for taxpayers and passengers. We will bring Network Rail under new
:54:53. > :54:55.passenger rail body together to coordinate track and train
:54:56. > :54:59.operations and to look after passengers. We will tackle the
:55:00. > :55:05.monopoly market for rail rolling stock. A Labour government will cap
:55:06. > :55:12.fares, legislate to allow a public sector operators to be able to take
:55:13. > :55:16.on train operators and we will devolve decisions on rail services
:55:17. > :55:22.much closer to the communities they serve. We will put the passenger
:55:23. > :55:26.back at the heart of the railway, not the profit motive. Transport
:55:27. > :55:31.delivers not just economic prosperity, but also social justice.
:55:32. > :55:34.Opposition has sharpened, not hold our ambition. Only a Labour
:55:35. > :55:38.government will make the big change we need to deliver the
:55:39. > :55:41.infrastructure to support British jobs and growth. Only a Labour
:55:42. > :55:44.government will make the big change to give cities the powers to bring
:55:45. > :55:49.back the buses and create a railway that puts passengers before of it.
:55:50. > :55:53.Only a Labour government will make the big change to tackle the cost of
:55:54. > :55:56.living crisis, reduce road congestion and give everyone the
:55:57. > :56:01.freedom to travel safely. Let's get on with it.
:56:02. > :56:07.That was Mary Creagh. Let's go back to JoCo.
:56:08. > :56:10.Now we come to the serious part of the show. We are joined by Matt
:56:11. > :56:15.Ford, a former Labour Party adviser and now comedian. I don't know what
:56:16. > :56:20.made you turn to comedy after being Labour Party adviser. Does it feel
:56:21. > :56:24.here that this is the eve of a general election? I have to become
:56:25. > :56:29.for what I say. But of course it doesn't. Why not? There is not much
:56:30. > :56:34.of an atmosphere and we all know why that is, because Tony Blair is not
:56:35. > :56:40.here. Are you missing him? I miss the protesters. Isn't this buddy as
:56:41. > :56:47.she goes? Know, get some protesters out, it makes people excited. In
:56:48. > :56:53.terms of Ed Miliband, what has he got to do? What tone has he got to
:56:54. > :56:58.strike in the hall? He has to set out some sort of vision. The problem
:56:59. > :57:03.is that I struggled to be inspired by him, and I feel bad for saying
:57:04. > :57:14.that. I just hope his delivery improves. What sort of delivery
:57:15. > :57:22.should it be? The way he talks, he is quite camp. Come on a
:57:23. > :57:25.conference. I want him to do more of that. It makes him funny and
:57:26. > :57:31.likeable. How does it compare to Tony Blair's delivery? Tony Blair
:57:32. > :57:37.was bring much about control and emotion, big stuff. Sounding like it
:57:38. > :57:42.was from the heart. Are you sure you should still be at the Labour Party
:57:43. > :57:49.conference? My colleagues have said I am not welcome. What about John
:57:50. > :57:52.Prescott? I will be interviewing him. I will do a bit of stand-up
:57:53. > :58:00.first and then interview Lescott about what he made of today's speech
:58:01. > :58:04.and the Blair years. If you give them enough time, you get good
:58:05. > :58:06.answers out of them. Has he become the darling of the Labour Party
:58:07. > :58:12.conference? Yes, because he was always outrageous anyway, but now he
:58:13. > :58:20.is off the leash, he can say what he likes. One wore impression of Ed
:58:21. > :58:23.Miliband? I really want to sort at Britain's problems, but look, it is
:58:24. > :58:28.a Syria is issue. And back to Andrew. It is always great to be on
:58:29. > :58:32.the show and it is great to see you again. I will see you next year,
:58:33. > :58:36.when I am still leader of the opposition.
:58:37. > :58:41.Thank you, Ed Miliband(!). We will be back in an hour, with full
:58:42. > :58:46.coverage of the real Ed Miliband's conference speech through till 345
:58:47. > :58:51.p.m. . That is on BBC Two. The one O'Clock News is starting on BBC One.
:58:52. > :58:51.Come back here at two o'clock for further conference coverage.
:58:52. > :59:04.Bye-bye.