:00:41. > :00:46.Good afternoon, and welcome to the Daily Politics. David Cameron has
:00:47. > :00:52.said the UK is ready to play its part in fighting Islamic state. The
:00:53. > :00:56.cabinet is meeting shortly to plan for air strikes against IS in Iraq,
:00:57. > :01:00.and Parliament has been recalled. We will have the latest. The Labour
:01:01. > :01:05.conference is over for another year, and the party says it is within
:01:06. > :01:12.touching distance of power. Critics say the policies don't stand up to
:01:13. > :01:16.scrutiny. We will be looking at what Ed Miliband will offer the voters.
:01:17. > :01:21.The Yes campaign lost the referendum but there are signs that the 45% of
:01:22. > :01:25.voters who backed it have not given up, so how long will it really be
:01:26. > :01:33.before the question is asked again? There is no limit to the talent of
:01:34. > :01:37.this young European team. Nigel Farage is praising Europe, its golf
:01:38. > :01:41.team anyway. He also thinks the vote on Iraq has been scheduled to
:01:42. > :01:48.upstage his party conference. We will be talking to UKIP alive. All
:01:49. > :01:51.that in the next hour, with us for the whole programme today, Phil
:01:52. > :01:57.Collins. He writes for the times but he used to write speeches for Tony
:01:58. > :02:01.Blair, remember him? Phil's top tip for public speaking is to avoid
:02:02. > :02:06.cliches, at the end of the day, going forward from here, I would
:02:07. > :02:11.literally like to welcome you to the show. Thank you. After flying back
:02:12. > :02:16.from the United Nations in New York overnight, David Cameron is chairing
:02:17. > :02:23.a Cabinet meeting, a war cabinet meeting, in all but name. Following
:02:24. > :02:28.a seven hour emergency debate in the House of Commons, the vote at the
:02:29. > :02:35.end of it looks a cure, with both Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg signed up.
:02:36. > :02:39.-- looks secure. UK action will be limited with Labour ruling out
:02:40. > :02:43.extending the strikes to Syria. In a moment, we will speak to Alex
:02:44. > :02:48.Forsyth in Downing Street, but first, David Cameron speaking to the
:02:49. > :02:53.UN overnight. So we have a clear basis in international law for
:02:54. > :02:58.action, and we have a need to act in our own national interest to protect
:02:59. > :03:05.our people and our society. So it is right that Britain should now move
:03:06. > :03:09.to a new phase of action. I am, therefore, recalling the British
:03:10. > :03:11.Parliament on Friday to secure approval for the United Kingdom to
:03:12. > :03:18.take part in international air strikes against ISIL in Iraq. Our
:03:19. > :03:24.correspondence, Alex Forsyth, is outside number ten. Tell us exactly
:03:25. > :03:29.how this is going to be constructive tomorrow, what will the choreography
:03:30. > :03:34.B of this debate? As you say, in the next hour we are expecting ministers
:03:35. > :03:37.to meet here at Downing Street to discuss, we presume, the wording of
:03:38. > :03:41.the motion that will then be put before Parliament. David Cameron
:03:42. > :03:46.will open the debate, it will last for some seven hours tomorrow
:03:47. > :03:49.morning, and then there will be a closing speech from the Deputy Prime
:03:50. > :03:53.Minister, Nick Clegg, and at that point MPs will of course vote. The
:03:54. > :03:57.last time Parliament was recalled for something like this was last
:03:58. > :04:01.year, when David Cameron tried to get the backing of Parliament for
:04:02. > :04:04.the intervention in Syria. He failed similarly, he has been gathering
:04:05. > :04:08.support before he even started to consider putting this motion forward
:04:09. > :04:12.this time. So the vote looks pretty secure. There may of course be some
:04:13. > :04:16.backbench MPs who are not happy or who have questions, but what's
:04:17. > :04:21.interesting is the way we expect that motion to be framed, which is
:04:22. > :04:25.very focused, limited, talking specifically about Britain joining
:04:26. > :04:29.air strikes in Iraq and not Syria. That has been done because David
:04:30. > :04:31.Cameron will be worried that he could not get support from all his
:04:32. > :04:36.backbenchers, and also from the Labour Party and possibly coalition
:04:37. > :04:40.partners. But he has also been criticised on the other side for
:04:41. > :04:44.being slow, in some people's minds, for actually acting. He has had to
:04:45. > :04:49.consider this carefully because all over this debate the shadows of the
:04:50. > :04:54.previous conflicts of Iraq in and Afghanistan. After the Syrian defeat
:04:55. > :04:59.last year, there is a sense that there is very little public appetite
:05:00. > :05:01.or indeed in Parliament for Britain getting sucked into another
:05:02. > :05:05.long-running, messy complex situation in the Middle East. So
:05:06. > :05:09.David Cameron is conscious of fact and punch is of the fact that he
:05:10. > :05:13.needs to be able to secure -- conscious of the fact that he needs
:05:14. > :05:18.to be able to secure support this time. Of course, he is well behind,
:05:19. > :05:22.because those US air strikes have already been going on in Iraq for
:05:23. > :05:26.some time, and indeed in Syria, and the intervention written is
:05:27. > :05:31.discussing is, to all intents and purposes, fairly limited. But by
:05:32. > :05:36.tomorrow evening, Britain will be at war. It certainly looks that way, we
:05:37. > :05:39.have had all three party leaders coming out to support this idea so
:05:40. > :05:43.we could mobilise fairly quickly to send RAF planes out, but what they
:05:44. > :05:47.are being very careful to say is that they are only talking about
:05:48. > :05:51.Iraq, and not talking about combat troops on the ground, because there
:05:52. > :05:54.really is no sense there is any public desire for that, and they
:05:55. > :05:57.have been cleared to say that if it came to that, or the biggest
:05:58. > :06:00.question of what happens about Syria, it would have to go back
:06:01. > :06:06.before Parliament to get the approval of MPs before any further
:06:07. > :06:11.action was taken. We are joined by the Conservative MP, James Gray. He
:06:12. > :06:17.is in our Westminster studio, and by Chris nylon from stop the war
:06:18. > :06:20.organisation. He is organising a protest this evening. As I have
:06:21. > :06:26.said, it is almost certain now that the UK will deploy military strikes
:06:27. > :06:30.against IS targets in Iraq. Wider you not support such a mission? Melo
:06:31. > :06:38.I think it is just extraordinary that three years after the last
:06:39. > :06:42.catastrophic intervention in Iraq ended, this will be the fourth major
:06:43. > :06:48.attack that Britain has been involved in in the last 13 years.
:06:49. > :06:51.The other ones have ended in absolute disaster. Are we saying we
:06:52. > :06:57.are leading nothing from history, nothing from those experiences? It
:06:58. > :07:02.is not just that we are in danger of repeating the same mistakes, but
:07:03. > :07:05.every time we launch another these assaults, we plunge the region
:07:06. > :07:10.further and further into chaos and disarray. Look at the state of the
:07:11. > :07:14.Middle East now, 13 years after the start of the war on terror. It is
:07:15. > :07:18.catastrophic, and we have been part of creating that situation. But are
:07:19. > :07:22.you saying because of what happened, the intervention in Iraq, Britain
:07:23. > :07:27.should never again be involved in any sort of intervention, be it
:07:28. > :07:32.humanitarian or military? That is another question. I think all the
:07:33. > :07:35.military interventions we have been involved in in the last 13 years
:07:36. > :07:38.have been disastrous, and I don't think we should be doing the same
:07:39. > :07:42.thing again. That is not to say there aren't things that can be
:07:43. > :07:46.done, but the idea that the only thing that can be done in this
:07:47. > :07:51.situation is aerial bombardment on Iraq is absurd. How would you stop
:07:52. > :07:55.IS rebels taking over a country and also beheading hostages that have
:07:56. > :08:01.come from this country, America and France? One thing I would do is to
:08:02. > :08:10.stop arming the countries that have funded ISIS. Also, I would get
:08:11. > :08:15.involved in some aid and investment into a country that we ourselves
:08:16. > :08:20.have damaged irreparably. James Gray, let's get your response to
:08:21. > :08:24.that, why is the UK almost definitely now going to be launching
:08:25. > :08:28.air strikes in a region of the country where according to Chris Nye
:08:29. > :08:32.and lots of other people have been disastrous in the past? Chris and
:08:33. > :08:37.others will argue against any warfare in the world, but these
:08:38. > :08:40.people, ISIL, are the most brutal people in the history of the Middle
:08:41. > :08:45.East, and it is important we should hit them hard where ever they be.
:08:46. > :08:48.These pacifists are just wrong. I strongly support the proposal we
:08:49. > :08:51.should go against ISIS, where ever they may be, and I strongly support
:08:52. > :08:55.the fact Parliament has been recalled tomorrow to discuss it. My
:08:56. > :08:59.own particular line is that I think David Cameron should have acted
:09:00. > :09:02.sooner and swifter under the authority he has as Prime Minister,
:09:03. > :09:07.rather than asking for a vote. Do you think it is unnecessary to have
:09:08. > :09:11.this vote, and if it is within his powers and remit, he should have
:09:12. > :09:17.just joined the US-led strikes and some of the other players in the
:09:18. > :09:18.region and gone ahead? It is not only unnecessary, it means it is
:09:19. > :09:22.hampering comet we have to come back to Parliament for a vote on every
:09:23. > :09:27.single matter. ISIS are both in Syria and Iraq. Not hitting Syria
:09:28. > :09:32.because he lost a vote on at this time last year is probably the wrong
:09:33. > :09:35.thing to be. We need to hit these guys wherever they may be, if they
:09:36. > :09:42.hit Turkey, we hit them there probably. Tying ourselves in knots
:09:43. > :09:44.because of the need to get a Commons vote is quite wrong. The Prime
:09:45. > :09:49.Minister should use his authority, as a leader, as a statesman, he
:09:50. > :09:53.should be taking us to war if that is the right thing to do to stop
:09:54. > :09:59.these brutal murders. What is your political settlement for after the
:10:00. > :10:02.air strikes, let's said IS is contained and pushed back to Syria,
:10:03. > :10:07.what would be your political settlement for the region? It has to
:10:08. > :10:13.be a matter for the government of Iraq, I am very hopeful they can
:10:14. > :10:16.ring to the three sides. It won't be easy, and bring in the UAE and
:10:17. > :10:20.Jordan and other people trying to achieve that. Let me come to Phil
:10:21. > :10:24.Collins, to take up James Gray's point that this was unnecessary to
:10:25. > :10:29.have this vote, do you think it sets a dangerous precedent that every
:10:30. > :10:32.time there will be some decision taken on military action, Parliament
:10:33. > :10:36.will have today record? Reign I think it has been said, I think it
:10:37. > :10:47.will happen every time. It is not a bad thing reign in a democracy to
:10:48. > :10:52.have a parliamentary vote on going to war.
:10:53. > :10:58.I think, Chris, I take your points, but you have to recognise there is a
:10:59. > :11:02.very signal difference from the last Iraq intervention, which is to say
:11:03. > :11:07.the Iraqi government has requested our help. But not a big difference
:11:08. > :11:10.from Afghanistan, where we were told military strikes would get rid of
:11:11. > :11:14.the Taliban, and actually what has happened is that Alabama, 13 years
:11:15. > :11:17.later, is stronger than it was women first went in. Green there is
:11:18. > :11:23.another very important difference, we have seen green there is another
:11:24. > :11:33.very important difference, we have seen British people in video clips
:11:34. > :11:38.in peril. You are essentially saying right now we do nothing. I am not
:11:39. > :11:42.saying that at all. What I am saying is if we know this intervention
:11:43. > :11:46.takes place it will make matters worse, because history tells us
:11:47. > :11:52.that. They have all ended in disaster. Give me an example of a
:11:53. > :11:56.similar the literary intervention that has done anything other than
:11:57. > :12:00.actually increase bitterness... My very point is that they are not
:12:01. > :12:04.similar. We were told exactly the same things before the attack on
:12:05. > :12:11.Afghanistan, that we needed to wipe these people out and degrade them.
:12:12. > :12:16.Green do you not think that is true? No, I don't think we can deal with
:12:17. > :12:21.these situations thousands of miles away by bombing people. A bunch of
:12:22. > :12:26.bandits are attempting to claim the mantle of a state and you are
:12:27. > :12:28.essentially saying do nothing. No, I am saying I don't want to kill
:12:29. > :12:33.innocent civilians because it will make things worse. We have got
:12:34. > :12:35.people coming across the border from Syria to Turkey, they are getting
:12:36. > :12:40.ever closer to European shores, in that sense. If you left them
:12:41. > :12:48.unchecked, what do you think would happen? Look at the situation back
:12:49. > :12:51.in 2001. The problem with terrorism was located in Pakistan and one or
:12:52. > :12:57.two other areas, now it is spreading around the world, which is what this
:12:58. > :13:02.action will do, deepen the problem. A recruiting sergeant for different
:13:03. > :13:05.jihadi groups, which we have seen in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and now we
:13:06. > :13:12.are seeing it across this region of the Middle East, perhaps this is not
:13:13. > :13:15.the right strategy? It was the wrong strategy in Afghanistan, we should
:13:16. > :13:19.not have been there for eight to ten years, we should have gone in and
:13:20. > :13:25.hit Al-Qaeda very hard, taken out Osama bin Lardner and got out again.
:13:26. > :13:32.That that is what we should do, with IS, destroy them. The Pasha fist --
:13:33. > :13:37.the pacifist approach to say was bad and we should not do them, it would
:13:38. > :13:41.consign Britain to the backwaters. We must get out there and do the
:13:42. > :13:44.right thing. These brutal people are beheading children because they
:13:45. > :13:48.won't denounce Christ. These are awful people and we must stamp out
:13:49. > :13:53.from this world, the only way to do that is by military force. Do you
:13:54. > :13:58.think you will be decades before this issue is resolved, which is
:13:59. > :14:02.what President Obama has said? But we will not be responsible for that.
:14:03. > :14:06.That will be for the government of Iraq. But isn't that the problem,
:14:07. > :14:11.that when British support and American sport has pulled out of
:14:12. > :14:15.regions like Afghanistan for example, all that happens is those
:14:16. > :14:20.extremists comeback in? If they come back end, we will come back too.
:14:21. > :14:24.Just sitting in Afghanistan, for eight to ten years, it is quite the
:14:25. > :14:30.wrong thing to do. We could not rebuild the state, and we can not do
:14:31. > :14:35.that in Iraq either. It is a job for the neighbouring Arab states too.
:14:36. > :14:39.Our job is to take out the bad guys and then leave again. What about
:14:40. > :14:42.boots on the ground? There has been equipped by quite a fume military
:14:43. > :14:46.commander saying it will have to be boots on the ground in order to
:14:47. > :14:55.defeat ISIS rather than contain them -- quite a few. The notion of
:14:56. > :14:58.sending in a brigade of infantry, tanks and so on, that is completely
:14:59. > :15:02.absurd. We would not possibly want to do that. I think if we can
:15:03. > :15:08.destroy these people from the air, and my goodness, the force America
:15:09. > :15:11.are unleashing is terrifying to see, let's destroy them from the air and
:15:12. > :15:15.leave it to the new Iraqi government and Iran come for example, who are
:15:16. > :15:21.looking quite helpful, to put the whole thing together again.
:15:22. > :15:28.Is it sustainable to say that Labour will support air strike, not in
:15:29. > :15:33.Syria when people say unless you attack both, it will not work? Not
:15:34. > :15:38.over time but there was a clear difference, the Iraqi government is
:15:39. > :15:42.legitimate and want someone to negotiate and talk with them whereas
:15:43. > :15:47.in Serbia that was not true and you were working in a vacuum with no
:15:48. > :15:52.opposition. There is a difference and we have requests from the Iraqi
:15:53. > :15:58.government for help. In the end, it will not last because the murderous
:15:59. > :16:01.bandits of Islamic State will not observe that distinction and they
:16:02. > :16:03.are spreading. Thank you both very much.
:16:04. > :16:06.So the Red Flag has been sung and Labour has packed up its party
:16:07. > :16:11.Yesterday saw some rousing speeches in Manchester from the likes
:16:12. > :16:16.of Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham and Harriet Harman told delegates
:16:17. > :16:18.the party was in touching distance of power.
:16:19. > :16:21.A lot of the attention has been on the things Ed Miliband forgot to
:16:22. > :16:24.mention in his speech, like the deficit and immigration.
:16:25. > :16:27.But they also told us quite a lot about their policies going
:16:28. > :16:38.His spoke for a 66 minutes without notes and famously missed out on a
:16:39. > :16:43.couple of important passages so this time we were letting cheat a little
:16:44. > :16:48.bit. The Health Service takes centre stage, including a promise for more
:16:49. > :16:52.NHS staff, funded partly by a mansion tax on homes over ?2 million
:16:53. > :16:57.as well as a levy on tobacco companies and a crack down on tax
:16:58. > :17:02.avoidance. There is a pledge to increase the minimum wage to ?8 by
:17:03. > :17:08.2020 and Police Commissioners will be given marching orders, as will
:17:09. > :17:12.the migration cap. 16 and 17-year-olds will have the vote and
:17:13. > :17:17.he reiterated the promise to build 200,000 homes a year by 2020. Less
:17:18. > :17:22.popular with delegates was a plan to limit the rise in child benefit to
:17:23. > :17:29.1% for the first two years of the parliament. This popular with the
:17:30. > :17:32.Shadow Cabinet was a plan to cut the wages of ministers by 5% and freeze
:17:33. > :17:34.them until Labour has achieved its promise to balance the books.
:17:35. > :17:36.And we're joined now from Leicester by the
:17:37. > :17:39.Shadow Cabinet Office Minister Jon Ashworth and from our Westminster
:17:40. > :17:43.studio by the Conservative Party Chairman, Grant Shapps.
:17:44. > :17:55.Welcome. John Ashworth, let us pick up on the deficit. How can Labour
:17:56. > :18:01.bring it down? Ed Miliband has a good grace to admit he forgot those
:18:02. > :18:05.lines but what we did here was Ed Balls saying we have a plan to
:18:06. > :18:10.reduce the deficit and balance the books when it comes to current
:18:11. > :18:15.spending and no manifesto commitment that we will make will be paid for
:18:16. > :18:18.by borrowing, we will cost every single commitment that we put in
:18:19. > :18:24.this manifesto so that was in his speech. How can you bring down
:18:25. > :18:31.borrowing? And the deficit? If you win next year? Over the next eight
:18:32. > :18:36.months we will outline further plans on the deficit and it must wait for
:18:37. > :18:39.the Autumn statement from the Chancellor and the budget for next
:18:40. > :18:45.year as well because we can see the expect picture but the key thing was
:18:46. > :18:48.we were seeing no commitment will be paid for by borrowing and I wonder
:18:49. > :18:53.if Grant Shapps can make the same promise? That is not capital
:18:54. > :19:00.spending, you'll give yourself room to manoeuvre on that soon you could
:19:01. > :19:04.borrow to invest? No commitment in the manifesto will be paid for the
:19:05. > :19:09.Berlin, every single commitment this week is funded. The commitment to
:19:10. > :19:14.increasing number of doctors and nurses in the NHS will be paid for
:19:15. > :19:18.partly by the mansion tax and other measures so those are the policies
:19:19. > :19:22.we were outlining and they will be costed, not paid for by borrowing
:19:23. > :19:30.and I wonder if the Tories can say that? Let us look at the Tories,
:19:31. > :19:34.Grant Shapps, how can the deficit -- how is the target cutting going? We
:19:35. > :19:40.know that we inherited a deficit that McGrath I know, I know! You can
:19:41. > :19:50.tell me because we know the figures, how is it going? Don't take it one
:19:51. > :19:56.month at a time. By the time of the next election we can go into that
:19:57. > :20:02.saying we have halved the deficit. What Labour says is they will keep
:20:03. > :20:08.within whatever the budget rules are and they mention only the current
:20:09. > :20:12.spending and not the structural part, that is the other money, and
:20:13. > :20:18.the did not say they would make that by banging up taxes, taxing the
:20:19. > :20:25.pension and the family home, what they call goods like cigarettes. The
:20:26. > :20:28.point is, the only way they can balance this is the same old way
:20:29. > :20:36.from Labour, more taxes and spending. We will come to that. I
:20:37. > :20:43.want to clarify, so far, borrowing has been ?2.6 billion higher than
:20:44. > :20:48.last year, you are not on target to cut the deficit in the way that
:20:49. > :20:51.George Osborne claimed and it is not easy, even with all of your talk
:20:52. > :21:00.about austerity, to balance these books? It is not. We have seen a
:21:01. > :21:04.very significant figure, more than one third off, and we shall go into
:21:05. > :21:10.the election doing even better but the job is not done by giving the
:21:11. > :21:15.keys back to the people who crashed the economy and letting them borrow
:21:16. > :21:21.and tax all over again. Before they have even sorted out the last mess,
:21:22. > :21:29.and that does represent the biggest risk to the economy. How can you do
:21:30. > :21:36.this? More taxes? That is what we have heard. A mansion tax and a
:21:37. > :21:41.higher top rate. You want a higher minimum wage for businesses. Where
:21:42. > :21:49.are these cuts? The spending cuts in public borrowing? Or is this all
:21:50. > :21:53.from tax rises? It is true we have said we will increase the tax for
:21:54. > :22:03.millionaires, which grant shops has cut back, and also the mansion tax.
:22:04. > :22:10.-- Grant Shapps. In Hertfordshire, he lives there, and over the last
:22:11. > :22:14.five years, there are 133 houses sold and only three of them went for
:22:15. > :22:20.over ?2 million, so the vast majority of homes don't even go for
:22:21. > :22:29.that. Is this all going to be about tax rises? Well, there's the lead
:22:30. > :22:34.roles said we would have to freeze or cap child benefit at 1%. That
:22:35. > :22:40.rings in a few hundred million. That is not the sort of policy that goes
:22:41. > :22:46.down well at Labour Party Conference is but Ed Balls also said we would
:22:47. > :22:50.cut ministerial pay, I do not know if that is something Grant Shapps is
:22:51. > :22:58.prepared to sign up to. We have to outline further policies but we must
:22:59. > :23:03.wait and see the Autumn Statement to see what the fiscal position is. Let
:23:04. > :23:13.us go to the mansion tax. How many houses will be affected by this? And
:23:14. > :23:22.what will the average cost be? We think we can raise ?1.2 billion or
:23:23. > :23:26.so from this. How many houses? We will have to look at the details and
:23:27. > :23:34.we shall have some consultation on this. We think we can raise about
:23:35. > :23:39.?1.2 billion for the National Health Service. I do not understand how
:23:40. > :23:45.this will work, how can you value the zones? ?2 million homes that
:23:46. > :23:51.were bought at that price or houses that have risen in value since they
:23:52. > :23:57.were bought 20 years ago? This is what we have to work on. How do you
:23:58. > :24:06.know you will get this much money? If you have not even worked out the
:24:07. > :24:09.basic details? We think we will get ?1.2 billion but these are good
:24:10. > :24:14.questions, which is why we think the Office for Budget Responsibility
:24:15. > :24:18.should test all of the opposition policies so that when people come to
:24:19. > :24:23.making decisions at the General Election, they will know whether
:24:24. > :24:26.those policies add up. That is something that the Tory party are
:24:27. > :24:30.not alone in custody, I do not know what they are scared of but if they
:24:31. > :24:34.were prepared to do that, we could look into this and have thus laid
:24:35. > :24:38.out. Grant Shapps, what is your reaction to the mansion tax? You
:24:39. > :24:44.have always been against this but what is wrong with people who either
:24:45. > :24:48.have recently bought or own ?2 million homes paying a percentage
:24:49. > :24:55.and property tax quiz night he has let the cat out of the bag, they
:24:56. > :24:58.have not thought this through. The amount of money required to revalue
:24:59. > :25:04.homes, a process you would have to go through in advance, costs ?400.
:25:05. > :25:07.There is already a cost involved before you start to get anybody.
:25:08. > :25:11.Some of his colleagues have suggested it would affect homes that
:25:12. > :25:19.come down to only ?400,000, that would be in the North as well, and
:25:20. > :25:23.John has let... High with that the? They have talked about how much they
:25:24. > :25:33.want to raise from this and there is doubt is whether it would raise
:25:34. > :25:37.that. -- how would that we. In that clip, the discussions you are
:25:38. > :25:40.having, that's it everything you need to know about Ed Miliband and
:25:41. > :25:44.the Labour Party, they got us in this mess, they have not worked out
:25:45. > :25:47.any long-term plan and what they are coming up with is clutching at
:25:48. > :25:51.straws, they didn't mention that one of the new taxes they want to
:25:52. > :25:54.introduce will effectively tax people's pensions, ordinary people
:25:55. > :26:01.watching this programme will have higher pension tax and higher home
:26:02. > :26:08.tax and they will be back to borrowing and spending. Is that
:26:09. > :26:17.true? I will not take lessons from Grant Shapps... Is that true? Is a
:26:18. > :26:23.tax on people's pensions? I do not accept that. That is exactly what
:26:24. > :26:29.was announced. You have been putting a silly messages saying Labour will
:26:30. > :26:35.tax family homes, and in your village, only three houses... You
:26:36. > :26:40.have said that. Is it true about the tax on pensions? No! I do not know
:26:41. > :26:49.what he is talking about. Scare stories. Why doesn't he say, we will
:26:50. > :26:54.cost all the opposition parties. So that people can be confident that
:26:55. > :27:01.those party manifestoes have been costed. It is a very reasonable
:27:02. > :27:06.request. Why can't that happened? It is for the Labour Party dissenter
:27:07. > :27:14.policies. Why can't the OBR that those policies? Because that
:27:15. > :27:18.institution independently looks at the budgets of government, that is
:27:19. > :27:27.the point. What are you frightened of? They do not cost Conservative
:27:28. > :27:31.policy. Just government policies. Some of the other things. Where do
:27:32. > :27:37.you stand on the proposal to impose a levy on tobacco companies? Argue
:27:38. > :27:39.against that? That is absolutely fine to talk about those proposals
:27:40. > :27:46.for taxing things like tobacco. You would agree? I would argue that
:27:47. > :27:51.those plans do not stack up. John was very confused about introducing
:27:52. > :27:53.the tax and pensions, they have, they talk about raising money
:27:54. > :27:58.through pension funds meaning pensions will be worth less, just as
:27:59. > :28:04.when Gordon Brown raided those pensions in Europe at the time, they
:28:05. > :28:07.are going to do that again. And the only thing I was tweeting was how
:28:08. > :28:11.extraordinary it was to have the Labour leader who forgot to mention
:28:12. > :28:17.the most important issue facing this country. The deficit that was
:28:18. > :28:22.created by them. Before we let you add to that point, it is clear you
:28:23. > :28:24.are against the mansion tax, not the proposal to impose a levy on the
:28:25. > :28:30.profits of tobacco companies. Are you ending tax relief which allows
:28:31. > :28:34.hedge fund is to avoid paying tax? This is where you end up taxing
:28:35. > :28:40.ordinarily pensions? You are against that? You will fall into the trap of
:28:41. > :28:46.being on the side of the wealthy and millionaires. You're against the top
:28:47. > :28:50.rate of tax and mansion tax? The tax relief or head funds. You'll be
:28:51. > :28:55.accused of being on the side of the few? We have tightened up all manner
:28:56. > :29:00.of loopholes and we are bringing in more money from the wealthiest
:29:01. > :29:03.people in this country. Secondly, it is not the case that Labour are
:29:04. > :29:08.doing these things and it will not hit ordinary people, it will. And we
:29:09. > :29:13.have made sure that 25 million people in this country, including
:29:14. > :29:17.people on minimum wage, who pay one third of the tax paid when Labour
:29:18. > :29:21.was in power, are paying far less tax so we either people on the side
:29:22. > :29:26.of ordinary hard-working taxpayers. And for Labour, adding nearly
:29:27. > :29:30.bankrupted this country, to ask us to do the same thing again is
:29:31. > :29:36.asking... You can have the final word, about those tweets? You will
:29:37. > :29:42.pay more VAT when you promise you want but up VAT, they have had tax
:29:43. > :29:46.credits cut and you promised they would not and many disabled and
:29:47. > :29:49.foldable people pay the bedroom tax, that very pernicious tax and you
:29:50. > :29:55.have given greater tax cuts to millionaires. We will have to leave
:29:56. > :29:57.it there. Gentleman... Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thank you
:29:58. > :30:01.both very much. Are you suffering
:30:02. > :30:02.from withdrawal symptoms now that Because UKIP begins its annual
:30:03. > :30:09.gathering today in Doncaster. Whatever can have led them to decide
:30:10. > :30:11.to hold their conference in Nigel Farage has been talking
:30:12. > :30:15.about his position on plans for air strikes in Iraq, but he's
:30:16. > :30:33.made one other attention-grabbing I am Nigel Farage and I love you. ,
:30:34. > :30:38.the food, the excellent transport, the greatest golfers in the world.
:30:39. > :30:39.The Ryder Cup is upon us and here are my reasons why everybody should
:30:40. > :30:54.get kind Europe. There is no, no, no, no limit to the
:30:55. > :30:56.talent of this European team. So, come on you lot, swing for Europe,
:30:57. > :31:05.your continent. Goodness. That was Nigel Farage on
:31:06. > :31:11.the fairway and joining us from consulate, UKIP's deputy leader,
:31:12. > :31:18.Susan Evans. That was for Paddy Power, an online gambling adverts.
:31:19. > :31:25.Why? I have no idea, this is the first I have heard of it. Your
:31:26. > :31:32.reaction? I suppose as he says, UKIP has never been against Europe, just
:31:33. > :31:37.against the EU. Why do it for Paddy Power, was a paid? I have no idea,
:31:38. > :31:42.I'm afraid. We will find out later on. Do you agree with your leader
:31:43. > :31:51.that the Prime Minister recalling Parliament for tomorrow is a cynical
:31:52. > :31:58.ploy to detract attention from your party conference? I do, Private eye
:31:59. > :32:02.hit the nail on head that the threat level had been raised from
:32:03. > :32:06.substantial Boris to severe Farage. Now on the day the UKIP party
:32:07. > :32:09.starts, he does something that several people have been calling him
:32:10. > :32:15.to do the Whigs, recall Parliament to try to sort out the problem of
:32:16. > :32:19.this barbaric death cult in Iraq and Syria. Surely that is at the
:32:20. > :32:23.forefront of his mind? Surely an important debate on Britain joining
:32:24. > :32:28.air strikes against, as you say, barbaric people in IS is really more
:32:29. > :32:32.important than anything else at the moment whenever he had decided to
:32:33. > :32:38.recall Parliament? Indeed, I totally agree and it has been very important
:32:39. > :32:40.for weeks. When we were asking for a recall of Parliament weeks ago when
:32:41. > :32:45.it first came to light, Cameron said no and he stayed in his wet suit on
:32:46. > :32:49.the beach in Cornwall. I think it is a cynical ploy, I'm afraid. As James
:32:50. > :32:55.Gray said earlier, this recall is unnecessary. Cameron was at the UN
:32:56. > :32:58.last night saying Britain was prepared to join air strikes, he has
:32:59. > :33:03.made his mind up, there is no need for him to go to Parliament. What do
:33:04. > :33:07.you think, do you think it is a cynical ploy? I think the self
:33:08. > :33:12.absorption that the finalist is thinking of the UKIP conference when
:33:13. > :33:16.he is recalling Parliament to think about air strikes is bizarre. Do you
:33:17. > :33:19.not think it is the session at the United Nations that figured quite
:33:20. > :33:27.large? I think it has nothing to do with the UKIP conference. Let's look
:33:28. > :33:33.at the by-elections coming up, how would you rate your chances of
:33:34. > :33:37.winning either/or birth? I think obviously we have a very, very good
:33:38. > :33:42.chance in Clacton. I was at a public meeting the last night and the
:33:43. > :33:45.audience was absolutely 100% behind UKIP. Interestingly, Nigel asked
:33:46. > :33:49.them to fill up their hands if they were members, actually he said put
:33:50. > :33:53.up your hands if you are not a member and 90% of the audience put
:33:54. > :33:57.their hands up, so it is not just the dedicated UKIP people at that
:33:58. > :34:03.meeting last night. Hayward and Middleton is interesting. Labour are
:34:04. > :34:07.doing so much in the wake of the Rotherham affair, they are doing so
:34:08. > :34:10.much worse, people lined the doubly disappointed with Labour. Listening
:34:11. > :34:14.to the arguments on your programme, I think Labour has descended once
:34:15. > :34:18.again in a party more interested in class warfare than it is about doing
:34:19. > :34:23.its best for Britain. Nigel Farage said I want to give millions of
:34:24. > :34:26.ordinary people in this country the opportunity to live a better life
:34:27. > :34:32.and do better. What is the tax regime that UKIP will put forward in
:34:33. > :34:35.its election manifesto? First and foremost, we will take everyone out
:34:36. > :34:38.on the minimum wage out of tax altogether. If a wage is deemed to
:34:39. > :34:46.be the minimum, why should it be taxed? The other issue is to raise
:34:47. > :34:55.the 40% threshold of tax and stop it is lower now than clear micro the
:34:56. > :35:07.one thing we can do to improve inward investment from international
:35:08. > :35:10.countries is to cut taxes. The tax rate was misunderstood, it was
:35:11. > :35:18.combined with national insurance and we did not get that message across,
:35:19. > :35:23.so it is going. So it will be a flat rate of 40% for the highest owners?
:35:24. > :35:26.Yes, Labour keeps going on about tax cuts for millionaire 's but they are
:35:27. > :35:31.paying more tax than they ever were under a Labour government and as a
:35:32. > :35:33.result become tree is not getting -- the country is not getting the MS
:35:34. > :35:46.would it deserves. I I grew up close to Hayward and
:35:47. > :35:50.Middlewood. The message will work there very well. I suspect it won't
:35:51. > :35:55.work well enough to win but they are certainly competitive, no doubt.
:35:56. > :35:59.What about the policies on things like tax, if you are going to cut it
:36:00. > :36:03.to the 40p top rate of tax, there would also be cut in public
:36:04. > :36:07.spending, will those appeal to constituents where? UKIP take the
:36:08. > :36:16.worst of the two main parties, Labour always burning too much and
:36:17. > :36:21.conservatives desperate for tax cuts. The thing about UKIP's
:36:22. > :36:23.policies is that public spending will go down naturally as we
:36:24. > :36:30.introduce our policies. Clearly one of the main issues... By how much
:36:31. > :36:32.would it go down? If you are controlling your borders and fewer
:36:33. > :36:38.people are coming into the country and you are controlling the sort of
:36:39. > :36:41.people who come in, like the 190 countries around the world that have
:36:42. > :36:48.controlled immigration policies, then you are only encouraging in
:36:49. > :36:51.people who can pay their way, so you are cutting costs on housing,
:36:52. > :36:55.benefits, schooling, health. Our manifesto is being costed at the
:36:56. > :37:03.moment, and ours really is going to be costed. You will have to pay for
:37:04. > :37:08.a lot if you are to raise the tax threshold for low income families,
:37:09. > :37:17.and scrapping inheritance tax. How will you meet those costs? For a
:37:18. > :37:23.start, our fundamental concept is to leave the European Union, we will
:37:24. > :37:25.also be looking at smaller sums, I am making a welfare speech to
:37:26. > :37:28.conference on Friday. One of the first things we will be doing is
:37:29. > :37:33.stopping millions of pounds being paid in child benefit to children
:37:34. > :37:36.that don't even live in Britain. There are lots of ways that we will
:37:37. > :37:41.be making cuts and announcing them in the next few days. Thank you very
:37:42. > :37:45.much. While we have been on-air, viewers in Scotland have been
:37:46. > :37:48.watching First Minister's Questions from Holyrood but they have just
:37:49. > :37:51.joined us. It was the first time Alex and has been back in the
:37:52. > :37:59.chamber since announcing he is to stand down as First Minister. I
:38:00. > :38:06.think there is an expectation after the referendum, a way to canvas,
:38:07. > :38:11.that given the comments for example not of Gladstone but certainly of
:38:12. > :38:15.Gordon Brown, what he was espousing was home rule is close to federalism
:38:16. > :38:20.as it possibly can be, then people want to see a genuine powerhouse
:38:21. > :38:24.parliament coming from the steps being taken at Westminster, rather
:38:25. > :38:29.than the insipid group of proposals that were published last spring. So
:38:30. > :38:34.in terms of securing the jobs test for a powerhouse parliament, then I
:38:35. > :38:39.shall be standing shoulder to shoulder with William Gladstone,
:38:40. > :38:44.Gordon Brown and Willie Rennie. That was Alex Salmond, speaking at
:38:45. > :38:48.Holyrood short while ago. They may have lost the referendum, but those
:38:49. > :38:53.who voted for independence last week are showing no sign of backing down
:38:54. > :38:57.in the demand for autonomy. A Facebook campaign group, called we
:38:58. > :39:00.are the 45%, in reference to the proportion of people who voted in
:39:01. > :39:04.favour of Scotland leaving the union, has been set up by those
:39:05. > :39:06.determined to keep the dream of independence alive. We are joined
:39:07. > :39:11.down the line from Glasgow by one such person, the former MSP, Tommy
:39:12. > :39:19.Sheridan. Welcome back to the Daily Politics. As you know, 55% of Scots
:39:20. > :39:24.voted to stay part of the union, do you accept the result? Of course, it
:39:25. > :39:27.is a democratic election, it was interfered with unfortunately by a
:39:28. > :39:33.lot of big businesses who tried to bully and intimidate people, and
:39:34. > :39:38.obviously the BBC played its part. But 45% of people voted yes. The
:39:39. > :39:43.last-minute intervention that should have broken all conventions and
:39:44. > :39:46.rules, but again the BBC and others never really pointed that out was
:39:47. > :39:49.the promise on the back of a fag packet that Scotland would get all
:39:50. > :39:51.of these new powers. We were told it would happen on the 19th of
:39:52. > :39:57.September. I think it is the 24th today and we are still to see them.
:39:58. > :40:02.We will come on to the promises that were made. You include the BBC, in
:40:03. > :40:05.terms of scaring and intimidating people, our business is not entitled
:40:06. > :40:11.to have an opinion and have their say? Everyone is entitled. It is
:40:12. > :40:14.just you did not like what they said. They are not entitled to
:40:15. > :40:18.threaten people would lose their jobs if they voted yes, which is
:40:19. > :40:21.what businesses did, and that is a disgrace, and you guys in the media
:40:22. > :40:26.should have done more to point that out. This was a democratic and
:40:27. > :40:29.apparently free election. You gave, for instance, coverage to the
:40:30. > :40:33.Deutsche Bank, who said if we voted yes they would bring in a new great
:40:34. > :40:37.oppression, a lot of nonsense, but you guys gave it coverage. I think
:40:38. > :40:41.we have to accept that coverage of the referendum did not cover the BBC
:40:42. > :40:46.in glory. I hope you will accept that, I am not having a go at you
:40:47. > :40:50.personally, but the BBC as an institution backed up written, that
:40:51. > :40:55.is what they did. You seem to be laying the blame for the fact you
:40:56. > :41:01.did not win that. Let's come to the issue of independence, when do you
:41:02. > :41:06.think it will be revisited? I hope in 2020, I hope next May we will
:41:07. > :41:10.have a massive majority for the pro-independence parties at the
:41:11. > :41:13.general election. I think one of the clear outcomes of this referendum is
:41:14. > :41:17.that not only are the blue Tories finished in Scotland, but the red
:41:18. > :41:22.Tories are finished in Scotland. Labour could have celebrated and
:41:23. > :41:29.hugged with all of the Tory friends last Friday, but it was a pyrrhic
:41:30. > :41:33.big three. They should look that up. -- pyrrhic victory for stock they
:41:34. > :41:35.have lost Glasgow, Dundee, West Dunbartonshire they have lost
:41:36. > :41:41.traditional Labour areas who will never vote Labour again. You say
:41:42. > :41:44.that, you are right of course, those Labour heartlands were lost in that
:41:45. > :41:49.independence referendum. Do you think he is right that there could
:41:50. > :41:54.be, and in his mind should be, another vote for independence in
:41:55. > :41:57.2020, and that Labour has lost those heartlands like Dundee and Glasgow
:41:58. > :42:01.forever? I don't think they have lost them for ever, but I think
:42:02. > :42:05.there is a severe threat to Labour in Scotland. That is one of the
:42:06. > :42:08.outcomes and Labour people are very concerned about that. Whether there
:42:09. > :42:12.will be another referendum that quickly, I doubt. I suspect the
:42:13. > :42:16.argument for independence will get weaker as Scotland get older and the
:42:17. > :42:21.oil but it is perfectly reasonable to complain for another -- to
:42:22. > :42:26.campaign for another referendum. As if the Scottish people are Jutes who
:42:27. > :42:30.see what is on the telly and read what is the paper and do as they
:42:31. > :42:33.told is really patronising. Everyone did say it was amazing to see so
:42:34. > :42:39.many people engaged in the debate on both sides. When it comes to the
:42:40. > 0:35:44negotiation with UK parties over reform,