:00:09. > :00:16.This is not a threat on the far side of the world. Left unchecked we'll
:00:17. > :00:20.face a terrorist caliphate on the shores of the Mediterranean and
:00:21. > :00:21.bordering a NATO member with a declared and proven determination to
:00:22. > :00:55.attack our country and our people. Afternoon folks,
:00:56. > :01:07.welcome to the Daily Politics. David Cameron has just told the
:01:08. > :01:10.House of Commons that Britain must join the international military
:01:11. > :01:12.action against Islamic State The Prime Minister urges MPs to back
:01:13. > :01:16.a Commons' motions authorising the RAF to join America, France and Arab
:01:17. > :01:19.nations in airstrikes against ISIS. Labour will support action in Iraq -
:01:20. > :01:23.but not Syria - as the Defence Decretary warns that UK involvement
:01:24. > :01:25.will be for "the long haul". Also on today's programme -
:01:26. > :01:28.UKIP announce a series of tax policies as the party meets for
:01:29. > :01:30.its autumn conference in Doncaster. We'll talk to UKIP's
:01:31. > :01:35.deputy leader live. All that in the next hour and with
:01:36. > :01:38.us for the duration we're joined by the Guardian's Zoe Williams
:01:39. > :01:41.and the Spectator's Hugo Rifkind. So, just over an hour ago the House
:01:42. > :01:46.of Commons was recalled for an emergency debate on British
:01:47. > :01:50.involvement in airstrikes against so-called Islamic State
:01:51. > :01:53.militants in Iraq. The Prime Minister got to
:01:54. > :01:56.his feet at 10.30 and set out He said Islamic State posed a direct
:01:57. > :02:01.threat to the British people and that military action against IS will
:02:02. > :02:07.take "not just months but years". He said the brutality of Islamic
:02:08. > :02:13.State militants was "staggering." We'll bring you some of what the PM
:02:14. > :02:18.has been saying in just a moment. With both front benches supporting
:02:19. > :02:21.intervention, there's no doubt the motion will be passed, though
:02:22. > :02:26.there will be rebels on both sides. British airstrikes could
:02:27. > :02:42.begin before the day is out. Is this sensible, Zoe? Sensible,
:02:43. > :02:46.wow. There is a word. The diagnosis of is correct, it is an appalling
:02:47. > :02:50.group, it is an appalling situation, there is no reason to believe their
:02:51. > :02:56.ambitions aren't what they say they are. Their other ambition is to draw
:02:57. > :03:00.the West into conflict, as Mali did. All the techniques and all the
:03:01. > :03:06.pantomime brutality is the same. It is a kind of stated intent to mire
:03:07. > :03:12.the West in a new Gulf War. I think you need to consider whether you are
:03:13. > :03:14.just playing into their hands. The British political establishment
:03:15. > :03:19.regards this as a really important decision. Does anybody really, in
:03:20. > :03:23.the rest of the world? It is an important decision for Britain T
:03:24. > :03:27.makes precious little difference to the Islamic state whether Britain is
:03:28. > :03:29.involved or not. But it matters to Britain whether or not we continue
:03:30. > :03:33.to have this involved role at America's shoulder. We are way
:03:34. > :03:37.behind this time. The French are in before. Five Arab nations are
:03:38. > :03:45.involved. It is their part of the world. The British contribution is
:03:46. > :03:59.going to be six ageinger to err tore tie know jets. -- six ageing Tor
:04:00. > :04:03.anyway doe jets. -- Tornadoe jets. There isn't much Cameron could have
:04:04. > :04:07.done. Are you surprised that Mr Miliband is backing the Government
:04:08. > :04:11.on this? The problem is, with Labour's situation, that by backing
:04:12. > :04:15.the Government, they bring their Syria position into scrutiny. What
:04:16. > :04:20.were the principles by which you refuse intervention in Syria, if
:04:21. > :04:25.they don't hold here? You are supporting America's intervention in
:04:26. > :04:30.Syria? A brutal dictator, a savage situation. Then, I think they voted
:04:31. > :04:36.against in caped of - to redeem themselves over the 2003 Iraq war.
:04:37. > :04:41.-- voted against in case of. Now they have done all that works
:04:42. > :04:48.everyone seems to be going in on Al-Sadr's side - Assad's side in
:04:49. > :04:51.order to fight IS. It looks like a shambles, and unfortunately for the
:04:52. > :04:54.Labour Party, more of a shambles on their side than it does on
:04:55. > :04:58.Cameron's. The Defence Minister, the Government, Mr Cameron saying we are
:04:59. > :05:03.in for the long haul, this could be years. Well, on what basis could
:05:04. > :05:06.Britain sustain years of this? We only have seven combat-ready
:05:07. > :05:15.squadrons and we have very little ordnance N Libya there were --.
:05:16. > :05:19.Ordnance N Libya there were 250 Tomahawk cruise missiles fired.
:05:20. > :05:25.Britain accounted for seven. I thought Miliband made a good point.
:05:26. > :05:28.He said there is a world of intervention designed to destabilise
:05:29. > :05:32.a government in the hope that something comes better and one to
:05:33. > :05:36.support a government. Labour's position makes more sense than many
:05:37. > :05:42.credit with. But again, it is a question of whether Britain can have
:05:43. > :05:46.an effective role. The Saudis have 300 state-of-the-art aircraft. It is
:05:47. > :05:52.bigger Air Force than the RAF. Where are they? Other than one or two
:05:53. > :05:56.tokens? It is the bombing Prince. They support ISIS. That's where they
:05:57. > :06:01.are. They used to. The government doesn't now. They created a monster
:06:02. > :06:06.earlier on Who hasn't created a monster? That's the problem. ISIS
:06:07. > :06:10.are using American arms. That's what they took from the Iraqi Army. The
:06:11. > :06:15.Americans didn't give them the arms This is part of why they keep trying
:06:16. > :06:21.to draw the West into the debate. What is the evidence they are trying
:06:22. > :06:25.to draw us in, as opposed to creating a caliphate. You said that
:06:26. > :06:31.twice. I don't see the evidence. They don't want to be bombed by
:06:32. > :06:36.F-22s It is a given. Why else would they concentrate on Western hostages
:06:37. > :06:40.and sending very... Because that's what they do. They are not
:06:41. > :06:47.concentrating on Western hostages. The media is concentrating on
:06:48. > :06:53.Western Hodges. -- western hostages. There are Arabs being beheaded and
:06:54. > :06:59.crucified every day Why would they send those videos to Obama, it is a
:07:00. > :07:03.standard tactic? It was said when the Americans invaded the fist time
:07:04. > :07:07.- you have the watches but we have the time. They know they can draw in
:07:08. > :07:09.firepower and they will be there in ten years when the Western
:07:10. > :07:13.governments have left. It would have been relatively easy for them to put
:07:14. > :07:17.out the message - we are establishing our horrific state and
:07:18. > :07:24.that's not your problem N in the -- in the manner in which the Taliban
:07:25. > :07:27.tried to do first of all. You are assuming too much agency and plan
:07:28. > :07:32.here to what is essentially a rag tag of militants and terrorists A
:07:33. > :07:37.very large rag tag, though. Absolutely. It is well-established
:07:38. > :07:41.this. Isn't a new group distinct from Al-Qaeda, is it? It is all the
:07:42. > :07:48.same people, led by a different man. It's Morphed. OK. Let's move on, we
:07:49. > :07:51.need to take more of a look at the detail of the story.
:07:52. > :07:55.We Z -- we do.
:07:56. > :07:58.So let's take a look at this story in more detail.
:07:59. > :08:00.The motion being debated in Parliament today is narrow
:08:01. > :08:02.in remit - confining airstrikes against Islamic State to Iraq.
:08:03. > :08:05.It also rules out ground troops in combat operations.
:08:06. > :08:07.The Government has said that another Commons? vote would be required
:08:08. > :08:11.However, earlier this week, Labour leader Ed Miliband suggested
:08:12. > :08:15.that such action would require a UN Security Council resolution to
:08:16. > :08:23.The first aircraft to be deployed would likely be six RAF Tornado GR4
:08:24. > :08:27.fighter bombers, currently stationed in Cyprus.
:08:28. > :08:31.US Central Command has so far conducted a total
:08:32. > :08:36.America has the support of five Arab countries for the airstrikes that
:08:37. > :08:41.And France has launched airstrikes against Islamic State over Iraq
:08:42. > :08:49.but is considering extending them to Syria.
:08:50. > :08:57.In the last few minutes we can tell you Denmark is also to commit seven
:08:58. > :08:59.F-15 fighter jets. Well David Cameron took 45 minutes
:09:00. > :09:10.to set out the case for action. Isil has murdered one British
:09:11. > :09:16.hostage and is threatening the lives of two more. The first terrorist
:09:17. > :09:20.attacks in Europe have taken place with the attack on the Jewish museum
:09:21. > :09:24.in Brussels. Security Services have disrupted six known plots in Europe
:09:25. > :09:27.as well as a terrorist attack in Australia, aimed at civilians
:09:28. > :09:35.including British and American tourists. Isil, is a terrorist
:09:36. > :09:41.organisation unlike those we have dealt with before. The brutality is
:09:42. > :09:45.staggering, beheadings, Crucifixions, the gouging out of
:09:46. > :09:48.eyes, use of rain as a weapon and slaughtering of children. They all
:09:49. > :09:52.belong in the dark ages. It is not just the brutality. It is backed by
:09:53. > :10:04.billions of dollars and has captured an arsenal of the most modern
:10:05. > :10:08.weapons. In the space of a few months, ISIL has taken control of a
:10:09. > :10:12.territory. It has already attacked Lebanon and boasts of its designs
:10:13. > :10:16.right up to the Turkish border. This is not a threat on the far side of
:10:17. > :10:20.the world. Left unchecked, we will face a terrorist caliphate on the
:10:21. > :10:25.shores of the Mediterranean, and bordering a NATO member, with a
:10:26. > :10:30.declared and proven determination to attack our country, and our people.
:10:31. > :10:34.This is not the stuff of fantasy. It is happening in front of us and we
:10:35. > :10:38.need to face up to it. Next, is there a clear,
:10:39. > :10:42.comprehensive plan? Yes. It starts at home with tough, uncompromising
:10:43. > :10:47.action to prevent attacks and hunt down those who are planning them. As
:10:48. > :10:51.the House knows, we are introducing new powers, these include
:10:52. > :10:56.strengthening our ability to seize passports and to stop suspects
:10:57. > :11:00.travel. It includes stripping British nationality from dual
:11:01. > :11:03.nationals and ensuring airlines comply with our no-fly list. In all
:11:04. > :11:08.of this we are being clear about the cause of the terrorist threat we
:11:09. > :11:16.face. As I have said before, that means defeating the poisonous
:11:17. > :11:21.ideology of Islamist extremism by tackling all extremists not just the
:11:22. > :11:24.violent extremists. So we are banning preachers of hate, and
:11:25. > :11:28.stopping people from inciting hatred in our schools, universities and
:11:29. > :11:34.prisons. Now, of course, some will say any action you take will further
:11:35. > :11:38.radicalise young people. I have to say this is a counsel of despair.
:11:39. > :11:42.Threat of radicalisation is already here. Young people have left our
:11:43. > :11:46.country to go and fight with these extremists. We must take action at
:11:47. > :11:53.home. But we also also have a comprehensive strategy to defeat
:11:54. > :11:56.these extremists abroad. Can I ask a question.
:11:57. > :12:01.Two questions he has not put to himself - how long will this war
:12:02. > :12:05.last and when will mission creep start? Well, let me answer that very
:12:06. > :12:10.directly. This is going to be a mission that will take not just
:12:11. > :12:13.months but years but I believe we have to be prepared for that
:12:14. > :12:20.commitment. And the reason for that, is I think, quite rightly, America,
:12:21. > :12:23.Britain and others, are not contemplating putting combat troops
:12:24. > :12:27.on the ground. There will be troops on the ground but they will be Iraqi
:12:28. > :12:29.troops, Kurdish troops and we should be supporting them in all the ways
:12:30. > :12:33.that I will describe. Labour are backing British
:12:34. > :12:46.airstrikes in Iraq, but not Syria. ! -- Intervention has risks but a
:12:47. > :12:52.dismembered Iraq will be more dangerous for Britain. I felt
:12:53. > :12:55.unchecked, as my honourable friend said -- Isil, unchecked means more
:12:56. > :13:00.persecution of the be innocent. This is this point - if we say it people
:13:01. > :13:04.we will pass by on this one t makes it far harder to persuade other Arab
:13:05. > :13:07.countries to play their part. People across the House has been saying it
:13:08. > :13:12.has to be done in the neighbourhood, we have to engage the region, but if
:13:13. > :13:15.we say - it is nothing to do with us, we will not intervene, it surely
:13:16. > :13:20.means we have less moral authority to say - we want you to play your
:13:21. > :13:28.part as W finally, Mr Speaker, we --. As well. Finally we should pride
:13:29. > :13:32.ourselves in our part of internationalism. That's when
:13:33. > :13:38.Britain is at its best. I want to say something about the underlying
:13:39. > :13:42.reasons and I think we should confront it directly, the 2003 war
:13:43. > :13:47.in Iraq. I understand why some who were in the House at the time will
:13:48. > :13:50.wonder if this is a repeat of that experience. In my view it is not,
:13:51. > :13:54.and it is worth setting out why. First, as the Prime Minister said,
:13:55. > :13:58.this case is about supporting a democratic state. It is not about
:13:59. > :14:02.overturning an existing regime and trying to build a new one from the
:14:03. > :14:06.rubble. A much harder undertaking. Second, there is no debate for legal
:14:07. > :14:10.action in Iraq as there was in 20003. Thirdly, there is no argument
:14:11. > :14:15.bomb whether military action is a last resort. Whatever side of this
:14:16. > :14:19.debate we are on, nobody is saying let's negotiate with IS. They are
:14:20. > :14:22.not people you can negotiate with. Fourth, there has been brought
:14:23. > :14:28.international support, not a divided world. All 23 Arab states and the
:14:29. > :14:31.Arab League providing support and five Arab states taking part in
:14:32. > :14:35.action. Fifth, there is no question of British ground troops being
:14:36. > :14:39.deployed. So, I understand the wariness there will be in the House
:14:40. > :14:43.and in the country about 2003 and whether this is a repeat but on
:14:44. > :14:47.those five grounds, it is not, and it is demonstrably not.
:14:48. > :14:49.We can talk now to our assistant political editor, Norman Smith,
:14:50. > :14:56.We have heard a flavour there from David Cameron and Ed Miliband. Can
:14:57. > :14:59.you give us a feel of the tone of the debate and the interventions
:15:00. > :15:05.from MPs, most of whom we assume are backing this motion?
:15:06. > :15:11.They may be backing it but there is no disguising widespread unease
:15:12. > :15:15.about where this is going to end. My sense is one should not be fooled by
:15:16. > :15:19.the skill of the majority Mr Cameron will get tonight. There is real
:15:20. > :15:24.disquiet about where this is going to end up. If you listen to
:15:25. > :15:29.Conservative MPs, many of them take a view that the strategy at the
:15:30. > :15:35.moment is half baked. And why? Because it is confined to Iraq. They
:15:36. > :15:39.make the point that ISIS's main base is in Syria and in time we will have
:15:40. > :15:48.to go into there. On the Labour side, there is a fear of Mission
:15:49. > :15:52.Creep. Mr Cameron sketched out an inordinately long campaign. That's
:15:53. > :15:55.going on for years, but he said that future prime ministers would also
:15:56. > :16:02.have to confront Islamist extremism. Already we can see one clear line of
:16:03. > :16:06.disagreement are merging between Mr Cameron and Ed Miliband, and that is
:16:07. > :16:10.Syria. Ed Miliband was clear that if there is any move to go into Syria,
:16:11. > :16:17.which Mr Cameron believes there is, he would want UN authorisation. He
:16:18. > :16:21.questions, who are the ground troops who are going to fight in Syria? And
:16:22. > :16:25.he doubts there is a route map. Quickly, you can see how this
:16:26. > :16:29.consensus over the immediate action in Iraq could fracture as soon as we
:16:30. > :16:34.go beyond that. Against the background you have just explained,
:16:35. > :16:39.of disquiet amongst MPs, give us an idea of the scale of what Britain is
:16:40. > :16:44.contributing militarily compared to the US, for example? It is
:16:45. > :16:52.miniscule. We are talking about half a dozen Tornado jets flying off from
:16:53. > :16:57.Cyprus. It is symbolic. It is meant to be politically symbol. Mr
:16:58. > :17:00.Cameron's view is that if we are serious, we will have to engage in
:17:01. > :17:04.Syria. That is where the real fighting is taking place at the
:17:05. > :17:09.moment. Mr Carman was clear that he believes there is more we can do. #
:17:10. > :17:13.Mr Cameron. He knows he has to come back to Parliament to get the
:17:14. > :17:19.authorisation and he may face a much tougher struggle. Very briefly, he
:17:20. > :17:22.did say that if he thought there was a pressing humanitarian situation
:17:23. > :17:26.and British interests were at stake, he would act first and then come to
:17:27. > :17:32.parliament for approval. Unhappiness about that. What was the reaction?
:17:33. > :17:37.That opens up a completely different line of attack, if he can go ahead
:17:38. > :17:40.under the guise of humanitarian reasons or national-security, he can
:17:41. > :17:48.go ahead and Britain will join the bombing in Syria before they get any
:17:49. > :17:51.say-so from Parliament. He was picked up on that by Peter appeared
:17:52. > :17:58.-- Peter Hain, who believes we will have to go ahead on Syria. Mr
:17:59. > :18:02.Cameron said that we would have to act but he would come quickly to the
:18:03. > :18:06.House of Commons to seek authorisation. I would be careful
:18:07. > :18:10.about reading too much into it. I think he believes there is a
:18:11. > :18:16.pressing emergency, where the ministry are saying, we have to go
:18:17. > :18:20.now, and he expects that within hours parliament would confirm the
:18:21. > :18:25.action. Looking at the other players involved, they are not having to go
:18:26. > :18:32.through quite the same parliamentary procedure as Britain, when they are
:18:33. > :18:38.contributing a small might militarily? No one is out from under
:18:39. > :18:43.the shadow of Iraq. The debate is shaped by the Tony Blair experience
:18:44. > :18:46.and that is why the government have gone down this very meticulous and
:18:47. > :18:53.painstaking approach of coming up with a very tightly circumscribed
:18:54. > :18:57.motion. Only in Iraq, no ground troops, publishing the legal advice,
:18:58. > :19:01.because they looked at what happened in 2003 to make sure they do not
:19:02. > :19:07.make the mistakes again. Why are we having to go through this process?
:19:08. > :19:13.Because of Iraq and Tony Blair. What about the party divisions. OK, they
:19:14. > :19:17.will pass the motion today, but with divisions within the Labour Party
:19:18. > :19:23.and Conservative Party, presumably Labour have more of a divide than
:19:24. > :19:27.the Tories? This could become a real issue for Ed Miliband. The party, at
:19:28. > :19:32.the moment, the number of people who will vote against tonight are a
:19:33. > :19:36.campaign group plus a few others, 20 or 30. But there are many who are
:19:37. > :19:43.deeply uneasy about why they are going. The reason for that is Iraq
:19:44. > :19:50.and Tony Blair. It is scarred on the soul of the Labour Party. That is
:19:51. > :19:55.remembered deeply. If we are into another protracted conflict I would
:19:56. > :19:58.not be surprised if user opposition within the Labour Party here and
:19:59. > :20:03.also, within the country. You would wonder what the appetite would be
:20:04. > :20:09.amongst Labour Party activists and supporters for engaging in another
:20:10. > :20:12.long conflict. Lets talk briefly about the Liberal Democrats. We have
:20:13. > :20:19.not heard from Nick Clegg and we know they had a firm and her war
:20:20. > :20:26.stance against Iraq. -- anti-war stance. Now, they are supporting
:20:27. > :20:28.this? We have only heard from Menzies Campbell at the moment but I
:20:29. > :20:36.would be interested to hear what Charles Kennedy will make of this.
:20:37. > :20:39.Nick Clegg when doing his radio show yesterday was indicating that he
:20:40. > :20:43.also thought they would have to go into Syria. I wonder whether we
:20:44. > :20:48.might see a gap emerging there between Nick Clegg and those around
:20:49. > :20:51.him, and the party in the country. One of the reasons the Lib Dems
:20:52. > :20:57.gained so much support in recent elections was because of their
:20:58. > :21:02.stance on Iraq. If they do a flip over that, it will only hack away
:21:03. > :21:08.even more at Lib Dem electoral support. Thank you.
:21:09. > :21:16.Vernon Coaker joins us live from Westminster. Welcome to the
:21:17. > :21:22.programme. The Americans have been bombing Iraq for six weeks, with the
:21:23. > :21:27.most sophisticated air strikes that exist anywhere in the world, yet
:21:28. > :21:33.Islamic has not lost an inch of ground. What difference will six
:21:34. > :21:37.British tornadoes make? What has happened as a result of the US air
:21:38. > :21:41.strikes and Britain, if the vote goes the right way to date will join
:21:42. > :21:47.in, has been to stabilise the situation and prevent the further
:21:48. > :21:53.advantage of ISIL in Iraq and as a consequence, give an opportunity to
:21:54. > :21:59.the ground troops in terms of the Iraqi National Army and the
:22:00. > :22:06.Peshmerga to organise strikes. Also, they can push back I sought when the
:22:07. > :22:11.time is right. You say stabilise the situation, Islamic State has not
:22:12. > :22:17.given up ground and two days ago they captured an Iraqi army base
:22:18. > :22:20.west of Baghdad. In what way are the strikes making a difference and why
:22:21. > :22:25.would the tornadoes make a difference? If it weren't for the
:22:26. > :22:31.air strikes, the situation in Iraq would be far worse in terms of the
:22:32. > :22:35.advance of ISIL. That is what the Iraqi government have said and what
:22:36. > :22:39.the Kurdistan regional government have said as well. They have
:22:40. > :22:45.welcomed the air strikes and said they have made a significant
:22:46. > :22:49.difference to what has happened. It has given an opportunity for forces
:22:50. > :22:53.in Iraq to regroup and push ISIL back. I put the point, you can only
:22:54. > :22:57.imagine what the situation would have been without US air strikes.
:22:58. > :23:03.The Americans do not think the Iraqi army will not be in shape to fight
:23:04. > :23:10.properly this side of New Year? Everyone knows there is work to be
:23:11. > :23:16.done with the Iraqi army. How long? That is a matter for the military
:23:17. > :23:22.advisers. They have said not this side of New Year. The Iraqi army is
:23:23. > :23:28.still losing to Islamic State and now six British tornadoes have
:23:29. > :23:34.become part of its air force. As soon as possible, the Iraqi National
:23:35. > :23:38.Army will be put into shape to enable them to push back. The
:23:39. > :23:42.changes I refer to, the Iraqi government needs to demonstrate to
:23:43. > :23:45.the Iraqi army and the people that they are an inclusive government and
:23:46. > :23:50.different to the last of mud. That will help to restore morale in the
:23:51. > :23:54.army, which the air strikes are also doing. It is an important part of
:23:55. > :24:01.that range of different actions that are being taken, with the Iraqi
:24:02. > :24:07.government and the Iraqi National Army and the Peshmerga, to push ISIL
:24:08. > :24:12.back. Do you believe we could be in for the long haul? We are talking
:24:13. > :24:18.about years, not just months. What we need to recognise is that this is
:24:19. > :24:21.an action that we are going to be involved with and the important
:24:22. > :24:25.thing to stay is that we would want to see that through. We would want
:24:26. > :24:30.to be successful in what we are setting out to do. How long that
:24:31. > :24:35.takes is a difficult thing to say. Certainly, we need to be sure that
:24:36. > :24:40.we can work with the military so that success comes as soon as. How
:24:41. > :24:45.many combat ready error squadrons does the RAF have? There are three
:24:46. > :24:50.squadrons of tornadoes. On which is going to the knacker's guard next
:24:51. > :25:00.year? Three squadrons of unavailable to the RAF. -- three squadrons of
:25:01. > :25:04.available. There are six at the moment, and there is a squadron in
:25:05. > :25:09.Scotland and in Afghanistan. I am sure the RAF will plan to ensure
:25:10. > :25:17.there are as many aircraft as we need available. Are the American
:25:18. > :25:27.attacks on Syria illegal? We believe they are illegal and that is why we
:25:28. > :25:39.have supported them. -- they are LEGAL. We are looking at a
:25:40. > :25:47.resolution. Why do you imply that it would be illegal to attack without a
:25:48. > :25:50.UN resolution? What I said was there a legitimacy for keeping the
:25:51. > :25:54.broadest possible support for any action in Syria. What we have said
:25:55. > :25:59.is that we have laid out certain criteria with respect to Iraq. Those
:26:00. > :26:03.criteria have been met as far as Iraq is concerned. Syria is a much
:26:04. > :26:09.more complex situation. We have not been invited in the way that we have
:26:10. > :26:13.in Iraq and we need to find a way forward that is inclusive and will
:26:14. > :26:17.make a real difference, and that is inclusive and will make a real
:26:18. > :26:22.difference, but is your party's position that the British cannot
:26:23. > :26:32.take part in action against Syria unless there is a UN resolution? We
:26:33. > :26:37.will make a decision... But you talked about a UN resolution, is it
:26:38. > :26:45.your position that you will need a UN resolution before there can be
:26:46. > :26:50.attacks on ice is in Syria? -- ISIS in Syria? Having sought the
:26:51. > :26:54.resolution, and hopefully it will be passed, we can make a judgement at
:26:55. > :27:00.the time. Of course we need a UN resolution. If it is not passed,
:27:01. > :27:04.does it mean Labour will not support attacks on Syria? Labour would make
:27:05. > :27:08.a judgement at that time as to what to do with respect to the situation
:27:09. > :27:13.in Syria. The debate today is about Iraq. What happens in Syria will be
:27:14. > :27:19.a matter to discuss at a future date to see if the criteria we have set
:27:20. > :27:23.out has been met or not. If you make a UN resolution a stumbling block,
:27:24. > :27:27.you are effectively allowing Vladimir Putin to take hostage
:27:28. > :27:33.British foreign defence policy, are due? Not at all. If he does it, you
:27:34. > :27:38.won't do it. We are seeking to maintain support in parliament, in
:27:39. > :27:43.Britain, and across the region for any action that is taken in Syria.
:27:44. > :27:48.Obviously, that is an important thing to do. We have all seen and
:27:49. > :27:51.heard about the war. There is a sense in which international
:27:52. > :27:56.institutions are not being listened to and that we do not go to them.
:27:57. > :27:59.The UN is the biggest and most important multilateral organisation
:28:00. > :28:04.that there is and that is why it is important for us to be seen to be
:28:05. > :28:08.using every single avenue we can to come to an arrangement by which we
:28:09. > :28:12.can command the broadest possible support. That is what the British
:28:13. > :28:17.people expect. The British people expect lots of things but above all,
:28:18. > :28:21.clarity, particularly when it comes to war or peace. I ask again,
:28:22. > :28:26.because I am still not clear on the party policy, if there is a UN
:28:27. > :28:29.resolution to take the war into Syria and the resolution is
:28:30. > :28:34.defeated, almost certainly because of a Russian veto, what would your
:28:35. > :28:38.party's policy then be? We would make a judgement according to the
:28:39. > :28:48.criteria we have laid out. You know the criteria, what would the policy
:28:49. > :28:51.be? It would be to make a judgement at that time. Why can you not make
:28:52. > :28:55.it now? You know the facts. I would suggest that we do not know and we
:28:56. > :29:00.would have to look at them as they evolve over the next days and weeks.
:29:01. > :29:04.We have to maintain the criteria we have too prissy the UN route. Today
:29:05. > :29:11.is about Iraq and that is the important thing we need to discuss.
:29:12. > :29:15.Why are we bothering? Our military commitment is minimal, we are coming
:29:16. > :29:20.in late, other countries have stepped up to the plate, Britain's
:29:21. > :29:25.participation is not essential, we are already very war weary. Why are
:29:26. > :29:32.we bothering to get involved? First of all, because we have been asked
:29:33. > :29:37.to by the Iraqi government. Secondly, given the careful way in
:29:38. > :29:40.which we have arrived at this particular position, that commands
:29:41. > :29:45.the general support of the British people. Thirdly, all of us recognise
:29:46. > :29:51.that we are in a situation where faced with a barbaric terrorist
:29:52. > :29:54.organisation determined to set a caliphate, that Britain in terms of
:29:55. > :29:59.regional and national security interests needs to be involved to
:30:00. > :30:05.help combat that threat. You say all that, and it may be true, but at a
:30:06. > :30:18.lot of people forget is not. If it is a Barry caliphate, if you think
:30:19. > :30:23.we need to step up, we should not -- what is the point? The point is to
:30:24. > :30:31.make sure we stop their advantage in Iraq and, working with the Iraqi
:30:32. > :30:35.National Army and the Peshmerga, we will restore the authority of the
:30:36. > :30:40.Iraqi government across the whole of the territory and minty and the
:30:41. > :30:44.territorial integrity of Iraq. That is important and that will help
:30:45. > :30:46.stability and help security and that will help keep our streets safe as
:30:47. > :30:52.well. Today's recall of Parliament comes
:30:53. > :30:54.slap-bang in between Labour and the Conservative's autumn party
:30:55. > :30:55.conferences. It also happens to be the start
:30:56. > :30:58.of UKIP's conference at Doncaster Racecourse - prompting senior UKIP
:30:59. > :31:01.figures to suggest that David Cameron had timed the recall to push
:31:02. > :31:04.their party out of the headlines. In a moment I'll be talking to
:31:05. > :31:07.UKIP's deputy leader about the party's
:31:08. > :31:10.fresh policy announcements on tax. First though, Giles Dilnot reports
:31:11. > :31:24.on UKIP's growing hopes of success UKIP's day at the races is not a
:31:25. > :31:29.conference of standing still. This is a party that thinks it's made
:31:30. > :31:34.politics a four-horse race and is galloping with gusto to embarrass
:31:35. > :31:39.its bigger thoroughbred rivals. Its winning projection is - on On the
:31:40. > :31:42.east coast of Kent, on the he is Stoury. I think they are realistic.
:31:43. > :31:45.If you take those seats and some of the others across the south-east and
:31:46. > :31:50.into Essex, I think realistically, probably 20. That buoyant mood
:31:51. > :31:54.belies a gamble. Can they truly breakthrough? Can they, as they
:31:55. > :31:58.boast, hurt Labour, too? Pockets we have had in the past. I think you
:31:59. > :32:00.will see whole swathes joining together. There is a real
:32:01. > :32:07.revolution. They have to be frightened. They know they are. So,
:32:08. > :32:11.how many UKIP MPs might there be? Or will their much-vaunted earthquake
:32:12. > :32:15.be no more than staggering into second and disappointk the thousands
:32:16. > :32:22.they claim to speak for. In -- disappointing. In any generation the
:32:23. > :32:30.stakes are high. UKIP's opponents say they ared grand standing if they
:32:31. > :32:32.think they are going -- athey are grand standing if think they are
:32:33. > :32:37.they are going to threaten government. They say they are grown
:32:38. > :32:41.up. Part of being a grown-up party is understanding, it doesn't matter
:32:42. > :32:47.how much ambitious you have n a first past the post system, you have
:32:48. > :32:50.to be realistic. -- UKIP has approached a threshold in its
:32:51. > :32:54.approach to the general election. It is more realistic about what it can
:32:55. > :32:59.achieve. It is no longer talking about 40-seats plus, it is talking
:33:00. > :33:03.about the region of five to eight seats. Even that is a little high
:33:04. > :33:08.but it is plausible they will walk away from the general election with
:33:09. > :33:13.around three to five seats. That is That's a hard message it get across
:33:14. > :33:17.to a party impatient and enthusiastic and some say - why
:33:18. > :33:24.crush that feeling? Lets gae back to May of this year, in terms of the --
:33:25. > :33:28.let's go back. In terms of the proportion of votes we had and we
:33:29. > :33:31.were the lead party in terms the European elections. I don't think
:33:32. > :33:37.any party would be acting responsibly, if they tried to push
:33:38. > :33:42.down and say - that is no longer worth generating, innovating and
:33:43. > :33:46.trying to capture. The big fear of UKIP is coming out with the general
:33:47. > :33:50.election, with something like 15% of the vote and a lot of second places,
:33:51. > :33:55.not being able to go over the tlien get the seats. Having said that, the
:33:56. > :34:00.big message coming down from high in UKIP to grassroots' activists is -
:34:01. > :34:03.be realistic. I was at a session this afternoon where an organiser
:34:04. > :34:08.said to activist said - don't worry about losing the seat in 2015. Think
:34:09. > :34:12.about 2020. What might boost the maths right now, of course, would be
:34:13. > :34:16.proving its threat to Labour in a by-election. Of course, the question
:34:17. > :34:21.going around is - what are the odds on another Tory dark horse waiting
:34:22. > :34:25.to defect to their stable, especially if they burst on to the
:34:26. > :34:31.political track to ride roughshod over the start of the Tories'
:34:32. > :34:34.conference next week. UKIP's deputy leader, Paul Nuttal
:34:35. > :34:39.joins us right now. Welcome back. How many seats is UKIP
:34:40. > :34:45.aiming to win at the general election in May? I don't know. How
:34:46. > :34:50.many are you hoping for? It is a long time in politics. We don't
:34:51. > :34:54.know. What we cannot do, as we have in the past, where we have a scatter
:34:55. > :34:58.gun approach where we spread our resources and money thinly right
:34:59. > :35:04.across the country. We have to target sensibly. There has been a
:35:05. > :35:07.lot of region into what our target seats should be. We will be
:35:08. > :35:11.ploughing people and money into those seats. On a good day I think
:35:12. > :35:15.we could do well and send people back to the House of Commons. On a
:35:16. > :35:20.good day - presumably Clacton will be one of them and presumably the
:35:21. > :35:23.seat that Nigel Farage will stand will be another, that's two. Are you
:35:24. > :35:29.thinking much beyond that? Absolutely. We are thinking well
:35:30. > :35:35.more than two. How many more? Jo, if you look at the places where UKIP
:35:36. > :35:38.has done well in the council elections and where we now have
:35:39. > :35:42.bridge heads, right up the east coast of the country, I think there
:35:43. > :35:47.are a good number of seats ready to go UKIP next year. OK, so talking
:35:48. > :35:51.about ten seats, maybe? Well, possibly. It could even be more. At
:35:52. > :35:55.the moment we are fighting a by-election in Middleton and Heywood
:35:56. > :35:59.and making serious in-roads into the Labour vote there. Who knows, as I
:36:00. > :36:04.say, a year is a long time in politics. I know you are going to
:36:05. > :36:07.say I'm talking about a proper politician now, but I will not make
:36:08. > :36:12.predictions. You are becoming part of the establishment now. Please
:36:13. > :36:17.don't say that. One of your new policies is to scrap all green
:36:18. > :36:21.taxes, is that correct? Yes. What green taxes do, in essence, they
:36:22. > :36:26.hurt the poorest in society. You just look at one of the campaigns
:36:27. > :36:31.that we ran in the European elections. We equate that green
:36:32. > :36:37.taxes are putting around ?450 own energy bills across the country. It
:36:38. > :36:40.hurts pensioners, students and the unemployed T doesn't hurt rich
:36:41. > :36:45.people. We want to do away with that. -- it doesn't hurt. We want to
:36:46. > :36:49.set out a fairer tax system for the country. Tell me, what counts in
:36:50. > :36:53.yours and UKIP's minds as a green tax. Give me the list of green taxes
:36:54. > :36:58.you are going to scrap? Well, you know, you will have to wait for
:36:59. > :37:01.those announcements this afternoon, well from Patrick O'Flynn at the
:37:02. > :37:06.movement we are talking about a lot of Brussels regulations that comes
:37:07. > :37:11.through at the moment. We had the issues of carbon capture and that.
:37:12. > :37:16.We want to see a country where tax is fairer, where we can lift every
:37:17. > :37:20.one on minimum wage out of taxation altogether and help the squeezed
:37:21. > :37:25.middle. We will do that by raising the 40p threshold to 55,000. We will
:37:26. > :37:28.put more money in people's pockets. We know people know how to spend
:37:29. > :37:33.their own money, better than any government. That's clear. What is
:37:34. > :37:37.not is what you are talking about in terms of scrapping green taxes. If
:37:38. > :37:41.you want a fair regime, people will want to know what you have to
:37:42. > :37:46.include. You may not know specifics. Will you include air passenger duty
:37:47. > :37:50.in one of your taxes to be scrapped? You will have to listen to Patrick
:37:51. > :37:54.this afternoon, who will announce all these things. At the moment we
:37:55. > :37:59.are showing, we are... But, Paul, your pledge. I will have to
:38:00. > :38:04.interrupt you. But, Jo, Jo, we know that green taxes hurt the poorest in
:38:05. > :38:08.society, they push up energy bills. So are you getting rid of all of
:38:09. > :38:13.them? We want to put money on people's pockets. It is on the front
:38:14. > :38:16.page of your website. You are the deputy leader, as I introduced you.
:38:17. > :38:22.You should know how much we are talking b how much the Treasury will
:38:23. > :38:27.lose in tax receipts and which green taxes are you talking about? --
:38:28. > :38:30.talking about. Hang on, we have spoken about this in
:38:31. > :38:35.talking about. Hang on, we have election. We have said it is putting
:38:36. > :38:40.on ?450 on everyone's energy bills, and hurting the poorest in society
:38:41. > :38:47.most. OK, you are not talking about air passenger duty? Well, again, I'm
:38:48. > :38:51.in the too sure about that. You will have tolies listen to Patrick this
:38:52. > :38:54.afternoon. It is worth nearly ?3.5 billion a year to the Treasury. It
:38:55. > :39:00.depends what your definition of a green tax is. Accord together office
:39:01. > :39:05.of national statistics, it is a tax on petrol or passenger flight that
:39:06. > :39:09.has a proven negative impact on the environment. To till, in total,
:39:10. > :39:13.according to the ONS, based on Treasury figures, the amount of
:39:14. > :39:17.money the Treasury gets is ?43 billion. Are you getting rid of all
:39:18. > :39:23.of that? Well, actually that can be evened off by doing away with HS2
:39:24. > :39:28.altogether. What, ?43 billion? Let me make this point. We can raise
:39:29. > :39:32.money by doing away by 85% of foreign aid which we are giving to
:39:33. > :39:35.countries like India, China and Brazil which has overtaken us in the
:39:36. > :39:39.league of economic powers. We can leave the European Union. There is
:39:40. > :39:42.another ?10 billion per year. The money is there. We want to put that
:39:43. > :39:47.money back into people's pockets and look after our own people for once.
:39:48. > :39:51.I thought that money, the ?10 billion you talked about, from
:39:52. > :39:56.leaving the EU and the ?9 billion spent on foreign aid was going to
:39:57. > :40:02.pay for your tax changes for your scrapping of inheritance tax and
:40:03. > :40:14.UKIP is planning to scrap Taj on the minimum wage t couldn't also cover,
:40:15. > :40:19.?43 billion of green taxes. -- crappage planning to crap.
:40:20. > :40:23.We can raise money by taking off the rich. We will call for a Treasury
:40:24. > :40:28.commission into looking at raising VAT to 25% for luxury items. So if
:40:29. > :40:33.you are going out and buying a car, say over ?75,000 or you are buying a
:40:34. > :40:38.bag over ?1,000, of course we are looking to put 5% of VAT on that, to
:40:39. > :40:41.ensure it is rich people paying the taxes and not poor people. Can you
:40:42. > :40:46.tell me how much scrapping tax on those earning the minimum wage will
:40:47. > :40:51.cost? About ?12 billion. And that's going to be covered also by leaving
:40:52. > :40:56.the EU and the foreign aid budget being scrapped s that right? Well,
:40:57. > :40:59.actually, Jo -- is that right? Well, actually, if we left the
:41:00. > :41:04.European Union, we would be far better off. I give you an example.
:41:05. > :41:10.Certain esteemed think tanks estimate that being in the European
:41:11. > :41:14.Union is costing us ?100 billion per annum, and that's complying with EU
:41:15. > :41:17.directives and regulations. A Common Agricultural Policy that forces up
:41:18. > :41:23.the price of food. A Common Fisheries Policy that has halved our
:41:24. > :41:29.fishing industries since the 1970s. We could save ?100 billion by coming
:41:30. > :41:36.out of organisation. . Do you think all this sounds like it is costed. I
:41:37. > :41:42.can't get detail? It is not remotely costed. UKIP is in the process of
:41:43. > :41:50.doing a strange pivot. They are trying to get their votes now from
:41:51. > :41:52.Labour voters, rs. They are a state-stripping welfare-cutting
:41:53. > :41:56.party. They are trying to find a means to present that in a way they
:41:57. > :42:00.can take votes from the Labour Party. If it doesn't add up or make
:42:01. > :42:04.sense it is because inherently it doesn't make sense. By pushing
:42:05. > :42:09.pressure on Labour, Labour will be worried. The reason it does make
:42:10. > :42:13.sense is an emotional rather than practical one. The far right always
:42:14. > :42:17.does well in times of difficulty because they make everything sound
:42:18. > :42:22.very simple. So they are like - everything is to do with the EU or
:42:23. > :42:26.immigration or both. Everything can be solved with if we pull away from
:42:27. > :42:29.the rest of the world and stop spending money on foreign aid. Now
:42:30. > :42:33.there will be Labour voters who won't look at the nitty gritty of
:42:34. > :42:37.which taxes they are talking about and will think - yes, a lot of our
:42:38. > :42:40.problems are because Westminster is unresponsive to normal British
:42:41. > :42:45.people and too responsive to the rest of the world. That is the
:42:46. > :42:52.emotional position. I can see why they are pushing T what I think is
:42:53. > :42:57.unfortunate for them... -- pushing T what is unfortunate for them is they
:42:58. > :43:01.sound as obfuscating as the rest of the politicians, which is why people
:43:02. > :43:05.liked them. You have spoken about immigration. You have spoken about
:43:06. > :43:09.it. You said - pull up the draw bridge. No-one is talking about
:43:10. > :43:13.pulling up any draw bridge. What we are talking about here is having a
:43:14. > :43:17.points-based system, like Australia, where we can choose who we want and
:43:18. > :43:22.who we don't want to come into the country. We can look at areas in the
:43:23. > :43:26.job market where people need to come and fill these places. What we don't
:43:27. > :43:29.want is a whole deluge of people coming with low skills who put
:43:30. > :43:33.British people out of work and drive down wages. You add to the bill
:43:34. > :43:37.there and talk about the welfare bi. The welfare bill goes up as a result
:43:38. > :43:42.of unfetterred, uncontrolled immigration. Paul, before we say
:43:43. > :43:48.goodbye to you, can you clear up for us, what is UKIP's official policy
:43:49. > :43:53.on British air strikes against ISIS in Iraq. Nigel Farage says he
:43:54. > :43:57.doesn't sport plan to launch air strikes with the Americans and we
:43:58. > :44:01.heard from the deputy Chairman saying she would support bombing in
:44:02. > :44:04.Iraq. Who is right? Well, if I was an MP there today I would vote
:44:05. > :44:08.against air strikes. I tell you why - Audi Arabia have one of the
:44:09. > :44:12.biggest Air Forces in the world, Turkey has one of the biggest
:44:13. > :44:17.standing armies. This is an issue for the Middle East to sort out
:44:18. > :44:24.itself. Bombing doesn't work. Is that UKIP's policy? The fact is that
:44:25. > :44:28.ISIS have made significant gains while America has been bombing for
:44:29. > :44:34.the past seven weeks. It is tokenism. I would be voting against.
:44:35. > :44:38.That's UKIP's official policy. Susan Evans is wrong. Well Nigel Farage,
:44:39. > :44:42.the leader of the party has made this clear, where he stands I'm the
:44:43. > :44:47.deputy, I stand behind him. If we were both MPs, we would be voting
:44:48. > :44:50.against air strikes today. We don't want to see mission creep and
:44:51. > :44:53.British boots on the ground which would eventually happen. That's
:44:54. > :44:58.official UKIP policy. All right. Thank you.
:44:59. > :45:01.Let's get back to the debate in the House of Commons
:45:02. > :45:03.on air strikes against Islamic State militants in Iraq.
:45:04. > :45:05.Here's some more of what's been said.
:45:06. > :45:10.Countries in the region have to take ownership of this battle because
:45:11. > :45:15.ISIL threatens them all. The elephant in the room, for me,
:45:16. > :45:19.remains Syria. ISIL will never be defeated if it is constantly allowed
:45:20. > :45:25.to regroup from its Syrian base. Without either UN or Syrian covered
:45:26. > :45:31.authorisation, air strikes in Syria may be illegal, although they could
:45:32. > :45:40.well be justified under international law. UN air strikes
:45:41. > :45:45.will not be granted without Assad and Vladimir Putin's agreement,
:45:46. > :45:53.maybe President Rouhani as well. I agree it is artificial to divide the
:45:54. > :46:02.problems. There is no doubt that ISIS has to be defeated in both
:46:03. > :46:06.countries. Given that one of the principles of counterinsurgency is
:46:07. > :46:09.to deny the enemy a home base, isn't it essential that we back the
:46:10. > :46:14.American effort in Syria? Otherwise, we will never defeat them in Iraq.
:46:15. > :46:19.For people to suggest we cannot go to Syria is tying our hands behind
:46:20. > :46:27.our backs. I agree. President Obama has been open that he is going into
:46:28. > :46:32.this alliance to launch attacks on Syria and Iraq and it is quite
:46:33. > :46:39.unrealistic to proceed on any other basis. There will be a lot said
:46:40. > :46:42.today about military action and I make it clear that I support the
:46:43. > :46:46.terms of the motion. Personally I think it is rather minimalist and I
:46:47. > :46:57.have no doubt that in the future, we will have to return to this issue
:46:58. > :47:07.and we will have to debated again. When you have a UN resolution, you
:47:08. > :47:09.have to accept the reality that the prospect of a United Nations
:47:10. > :47:16.Security Council resolution is totally remote. Even putting one on
:47:17. > :47:21.the table would be a pointless exercise because of the attitude,
:47:22. > :47:30.undoubtedly to be taken, of Russia and possibly also by China. We can
:47:31. > :47:37.now talk to Diane Abbott and Gerald Towers. They join us from the Houses
:47:38. > :47:44.of Parliament. Diane Abbott, how will you vote today? I will vote
:47:45. > :47:47.against bombing Iraq. I realise that the images we have seen of
:47:48. > :47:54.beheadings and the awful massacre and genocide carried out has made
:47:55. > :48:01.people think we have to do something, but I think a joint
:48:02. > :48:08.bombing operation with America will not crash ISIS. In the end, it is a
:48:09. > :48:13.political issue and there is not a Western military solution. How will
:48:14. > :48:18.you vote and white? I will vote for the resolution, which I think Hazel
:48:19. > :48:23.blears was rightly described as pretty minimalist. I think the Prime
:48:24. > :48:27.Minister made a compelling case which I hope the public will take
:48:28. > :48:30.time to study. The reason I will be supporting his motion tonight and
:48:31. > :48:36.supporting British military intervention is that at the moment,
:48:37. > :48:40.ISIS, or ISIL, are threatening the integrity of Iraq. If Iraq were to
:48:41. > :48:43.be taken over by these people, it would be catastrophic not just for
:48:44. > :48:48.the region, but for the United Kingdom. We have evidence already
:48:49. > :48:51.from the ground forces that the intervention of the United States
:48:52. > :48:56.through their use of air power has been instrumental in helping them
:48:57. > :48:59.contain ISIS. Of course it does not deal with the wider problem of
:49:00. > :49:02.Syria, but the imperative of securing Iraq so that the new Prime
:49:03. > :49:08.Minister can get the political process underway which is so
:49:09. > :49:13.necessary to bring the units of Iraq together, that is why. Diane Abbott,
:49:14. > :49:17.does it not make a difference that Iraq has asked us to help them? It
:49:18. > :49:22.was at the request of the sovereign government. It is not just America
:49:23. > :49:27.we would be joining, we would be joining five other Arab nations in
:49:28. > :49:33.the region attacking ISIS. The fact that Iraq has asked us makes it like
:49:34. > :49:39.one, which has to be a consideration. What has threatened
:49:40. > :49:45.the integrity of Iraq is a corrupt and government which has driven
:49:46. > :49:48.Sunni Muslims towards ISIL. Unless you fix the political problem you
:49:49. > :49:54.will not get peace in the region. When we talk about arming the Kurds,
:49:55. > :49:58.they will fight ISIL in the short-term but in the long time,
:49:59. > :50:03.they want a Kurdish state and that involves dismembering not just
:50:04. > :50:09.Iraq, but Turkey and Syria. What makes you think, Gerald Horace, but
:50:10. > :50:17.airpower can do the job? -- Gerald Howarth. The Iraqi army is not in a
:50:18. > :50:21.state to fight, purse Maiga in the north, but not the Iraqis, and no
:50:22. > :50:28.one in the region is offering to help with air strikes, are they? --
:50:29. > :50:32.the Peshmerga in the north. In this region and given the weapons we
:50:33. > :50:36.have, airpower can provide the clinical strike necessary to support
:50:37. > :50:42.the troops on the ground. Efforts are being made... But where are the
:50:43. > :50:46.troops on the ground? 's efforts are being made to ensure the Iraqi army
:50:47. > :50:50.and the Peshmerga can provide the voice. I agree with Diane Abbott
:50:51. > :50:59.that military means will not resolve this problem alone. Let me make this
:51:00. > :51:02.point, it is terribly important to recognise the contribution that
:51:03. > :51:11.fellow Sunni countries are now making in in an attack on Sunni
:51:12. > :51:15.interests in ISIS. Saudi Arabia, the UAE, these are key allies with the
:51:16. > :51:18.UK and they are in there. Junior Lewis suggested they should be
:51:19. > :51:24.putting boots on the ground and I think that is the correct approach.
:51:25. > :51:30.But you might also see pigs flying over your head. Exactly. It is money
:51:31. > :51:35.from Saudi Arabia and money from the Gulf states that initially funded
:51:36. > :51:38.ISIL and as for the Iraqi troops, the Iraqi troops have proven
:51:39. > :51:42.themselves hopeless. More money has been spent on training Iraqi troops
:51:43. > :51:48.than any army in the world and they have folded. We got that, so what is
:51:49. > :51:55.the Diane Abbott plan to deal with ISIS? You have to talk to Iran. We
:51:56. > :52:00.are doing that. We need to step up the diplomatic pressure on Iran.
:52:01. > :52:06.Also, we need to put pressure on those elements within the Saudi and
:52:07. > :52:12.Gulf states which are funding ISIL. Only the region can solve this
:52:13. > :52:21.crisis. There is an overlying Sunni/ Shia split. There is a
:52:22. > :52:25.regional problem here and they are in the significant players in the
:52:26. > :52:29.region. In terms of political dialogue, they have to resolve that.
:52:30. > :52:41.But the immediate is to stop these people from pursuing their medieval
:52:42. > :52:46.barbarity. It is genocide and we have to stop Iraq from falling to
:52:47. > :52:50.them. That would be catastrophic for the region and catastrophic for us.
:52:51. > :52:56.Alongside that, the political negotiations have to go on. We have
:52:57. > :52:59.got that. We will bring it to an end on that unlikely agreement and let
:53:00. > :53:00.you both get back to the debate. Thank you.
:53:01. > :53:03.Time now to cast our eyes back over the past week in politics.
:53:04. > :53:06.Here's Eleanor with the week, in just sixty seconds.
:53:07. > :53:09.David Cameron took a troop of Tory MPs to Chequers to pacify
:53:10. > :53:13.disgruntled backbenchers over Scottish devolution and sort out
:53:14. > :53:20.This issue of fairness for England, as well as for Scotland, Wales,
:53:21. > :53:25.Northern Ireland, I think is now one that cannot be avoided.
:53:26. > :53:26.Ed Miliband admitted he forgot key sections
:53:27. > :53:32.of his Party conference speech - immigration and the deficit.
:53:33. > :53:37.If I did the speech again, it would definitely be in there.
:53:38. > :53:41.UKIP leader Nigel Farage showed his support for Europe,
:53:42. > :53:47.You, me, everybody should get behind Team Europe.
:53:48. > :53:49.The SNP's Nicola Sturgeon took the plunge
:53:50. > :53:54.and announced her bid to replace Alex Salmond as party leader.
:53:55. > :53:56.And the Prime Minister's going to apologise to the Queen
:53:57. > :54:00.after being caught on camera saying Her Majesty had purred down
:54:01. > :54:21.the phone when he told her the Scots had decided to stay in the U nion.
:54:22. > :54:29.Did it feel like Labour taking the fight to the country do defeat the
:54:30. > :54:35.Tories? No, it did not feel like that. Somebody described it
:54:36. > :54:40.yesterday as it seemed like the final meeting before the conference.
:54:41. > :54:44.They had all had such an amazing falling out, some cataclysmic fight,
:54:45. > :54:51.that had hamstrung them for the rest of the week. It wasn't just Ed
:54:52. > :54:55.Miliband. It was Andy Burnham, he fluffed everything. Rachel Reeves
:54:56. > :55:01.fluffed everything. Lisa Nandi was great but she is not in a cabal.
:55:02. > :55:06.Where they exhausted from Scotland? Was it true, that they were a bit
:55:07. > :55:12.dazed by having put all their effort into the referendum? It struck them
:55:13. > :55:16.existentially. The success of the yes campaign was a research and is
:55:17. > :55:21.of the left and the Labour Party could not ally with it or do
:55:22. > :55:23.anything with it. They could not like that fire under their own
:55:24. > :55:32.supporters, even though they would love that. They were kind of left in
:55:33. > :55:37.this very 90s position of trying to be the centre left, where all of the
:55:38. > :55:42.energy is in the left. They were outdone. What about the highlights?
:55:43. > :55:47.What was the speech of the Labour conference? Good lord, I do not know
:55:48. > :55:55.act smack the highlights were all low lights. -- I do not know act
:55:56. > :56:04.smack the speech about the NHS move people to tears. All anyone will
:56:05. > :56:08.remember the bad stuff, the forgotten passages of the speech and
:56:09. > :56:13.the weird insults to John Prescott. Just people careering around and
:56:14. > :56:19.getting nowhere. Zoe, you said it did rather conjure up the images of
:56:20. > :56:24.what are they going to do about English votes for English laws. What
:56:25. > :56:31.will they do? I do not think they have a clue. The whole line that
:56:32. > :56:34.these things have to be established contemporaneously so you cannot do
:56:35. > :56:41.deform max onto you have worked out what will happen to England, that is
:56:42. > :56:51.wrong. -- evil Max. David Cameron is just trying to pacify his back
:56:52. > :56:56.ventures. Was it just a trick? It is Labour's ten year over Scotland.
:56:57. > :57:08.Miliband needs to sit no, we pledged to the Scots and he needs to go for
:57:09. > :57:12.Cameron on that. He is nowhere. One Labour MP said to me at conference
:57:13. > :57:17.that he was surprised they had not thought of a strategy to deal with
:57:18. > :57:26.the tactic by the Tories after the no vote. Or any other strategy!
:57:27. > :57:30.Cameron was brittle on this. The fact that he came out of it not
:57:31. > :57:37.shaken, but straightaway going, well, I will bank that and fight for
:57:38. > :57:42.England, that was a sudden thing to do. I can imagine them being dazed,
:57:43. > :57:47.but this problem has been around for a generation. They should at least
:57:48. > :57:50.think about it. Which is why it may seem strange for David Cameron
:57:51. > :57:55.fighting for the union and then fighting for England. Does it
:57:56. > :58:00.matter, when he only has one Tory MP in Scotland? Is that it for a
:58:01. > :58:04.Scottish referendum campaigns? Tommy Sheridan said 2020, someone else
:58:05. > :58:10.said they will look at it legally, even with the 10% victory. When will
:58:11. > :58:15.combat? I should not think before ten years but in ten years they will
:58:16. > :58:22.be looking at serious opposition. The yes campaign was born by the
:58:23. > :58:26.kind of mobilisation of votes. Now those people are mobilised, I would
:58:27. > :58:32.be very surprised if they went back on it. It depends what the SNP does
:58:33. > :58:33.at the next Westminster election. If they store made the situation has
:58:34. > :58:35.changed. I'll be back on Sunday on BBC One
:58:36. > :58:39.at 11, broadcasting live from the Conservative party
:58:40. > :58:45.conference in Birmingham. We will be speaking to William
:58:46. > :58:47.Hague. And the Daily Politics will be back
:58:48. > :58:52.on monday at midday here on BBC Two.