:00:40. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.Four government departments say they've agreed to cut
:00:46. > :00:47.their day-to-day spending by an average of 30%.
:00:48. > :00:50.That's pleased the Chancellor, George Osborne, ahead of his
:00:51. > :00:54.But savings on welfare and at the home office could prove more
:00:55. > :00:59.Our Adam's been out and about finding out what you guys
:01:00. > :01:09.If you have a afford to have tattoos and smoke, why should you be
:01:10. > :01:11.claiming benefits? The Prime Minister says he's deadly
:01:12. > :01:14.serious about securing reform in Europe
:01:15. > :01:16.and has no emotional attachment to He likes to cut a dash
:01:17. > :01:32.and wants to be London Mayor. And that's not all,
:01:33. > :01:35.we'll be talking to George Galloway about his plans to enter
:01:36. > :01:37.the vintage clothing market. All that in the next hour
:01:38. > :01:40.and with us for the duration Conservative, Mark Field,
:01:41. > :01:44.and Labour's Peter Kyle. Now first today, let's talk
:01:45. > :01:50.about Jeremy Corbyn and the Chief of the Defence Staff,
:01:51. > :01:52.Sir Nicholas Houghton who yesterday exchanged a war of words, albeit
:01:53. > :01:55.on different television programmes. First off, let's hear from
:01:56. > :02:06.Sir Nicholas, who was interviewed on The whole thing about deterrence
:02:07. > :02:10.rests on the credibility of its use. When people say you were never going
:02:11. > :02:13.to use the deterrence, what I say is you use the deterrent every second
:02:14. > :02:17.of every minute of every day, and the purpose of a deterrent is that
:02:18. > :02:25.you don't have to use it because you successfully deterred. So no point
:02:26. > :02:29.in spending billions and billions of pounds? Because then terrorists are
:02:30. > :02:30.undermined. Well that didn't please
:02:31. > :02:33.Jeremy Corybn over much, who responded by accusing the general
:02:34. > :02:35.of breaching the constitutional principle that the military remains
:02:36. > :02:36.politically neutral. Let's listen to the Labour Leader
:02:37. > :02:45.speaking to Channel 4 News last I would gently say to him, with the
:02:46. > :02:49.greatest of respect, we live in a democracy where politicians are
:02:50. > :02:54.elected to Parliament in order to take political decisions. The Armed
:02:55. > :02:58.Forces, obviously, must advise, and obviously must put the point of view
:02:59. > :03:00.across, and obviously they have a great deal of access to the
:03:01. > :03:05.Secretary of State for Defence, the Prime Minister and every other MP
:03:06. > :03:09.and opposition members. I do not think it is helpful for them to
:03:10. > :03:11.start making political comments of a partisan and party political nature.
:03:12. > :03:13.And with us now former Labour Security Minister,
:03:14. > :03:27.First of all, is Jeremy Corbyn right? Did a Sir Nicholas Houghton
:03:28. > :03:31.breach his constitutional duty when he said he would be worried if
:03:32. > :03:36.Jeremy Corbyn's antinuclear views were translated into power? I think
:03:37. > :03:40.he was bluffed into seeing a little bit more about deterrence theory
:03:41. > :03:46.then he meant to say. I don't think he had any intention at all of
:03:47. > :03:49.saying that Jeremy Corbyn will do this and that is wrong and therefore
:03:50. > :03:54.he is not happy about them. I think he was gently bluffed into saying
:03:55. > :03:58.more than he should have done and at the end of it, he probably did say
:03:59. > :04:03.more than he should have done in a political sense. So he did cross
:04:04. > :04:08.that line? I think so but just. Let's say that if Jimmy had not said
:04:09. > :04:12.anything about it, it would have faded away without that much notice.
:04:13. > :04:17.I might be wrong. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn overreacted by saying
:04:18. > :04:22.that he would be writing to him and he was outraged by the breach? I
:04:23. > :04:26.think sometimes it is better to let some things run. Some things need to
:04:27. > :04:30.be reacted too but he clearly made the decision that he feels very
:04:31. > :04:36.strongly on this issue. On the substance, did you agree with Sir
:04:37. > :04:42.Nicholas Houghton that refusing to launch nuclear weapons, not press
:04:43. > :04:50.the button is the fact, undermining the deterrence? Deterrence, clearly
:04:51. > :04:54.it means that you are saying that if you do some pity me, I will do
:04:55. > :04:58.something back to you. Whilst I have admiration for individuals who are
:04:59. > :05:03.pacifists, I do not believe that is the way to run a country. What do
:05:04. > :05:08.you say to that, a lot of people would agree with that. If you say
:05:09. > :05:12.you will not press the button, you have undermined the deterrence that
:05:13. > :05:15.cost a lot of money. The more important question is the democratic
:05:16. > :05:18.question. It is all very well having the discussion about deterrence and
:05:19. > :05:22.I know there is more or less a convention that senior military
:05:23. > :05:26.figures do not tend to express their personal views on things, but he did
:05:27. > :05:30.go well beyond that and he did give the impression that Jeremy Corbyn
:05:31. > :05:35.was elected as Brown and Mr, if he was, and the word power must
:05:36. > :05:37.presumably refer to that, that he would have concerns. Jeremy Corbyn
:05:38. > :05:40.would only be elected as Prime Minister if the British people had
:05:41. > :05:44.voted in an election for him and his policies. I think it is absolutely
:05:45. > :05:50.inappropriate and that a senior military figure should put that
:05:51. > :05:56.question mark over a democratic decision by the British people. The
:05:57. > :06:01.question, what is absolutely right is, when a political party has been
:06:02. > :06:04.voted in, the job of the military, even if they do not like what the
:06:05. > :06:09.government is doing, is to do the best they can with a bad job. And
:06:10. > :06:14.you try to make sure that you can defend and look after the people of
:06:15. > :06:18.the nation and come up against any unforeseen circumstances with what
:06:19. > :06:22.you have got. And you don't say, I'm not going to do this because I don't
:06:23. > :06:26.like this particular party. That is absolutely right. And that has
:06:27. > :06:29.always been a tenet of military forces. Whoever is in power, they
:06:30. > :06:33.have been elected and they are the government and we are not a military
:06:34. > :06:36.dictatorship. The military are subordinate to government and they
:06:37. > :06:43.do as they are told. That aspect is absolutely right. Also, because Sir
:06:44. > :06:46.Nicholas Houghton is such a senior figure, that could give the
:06:47. > :06:52.impression that all military think that Trident, and replacing the
:06:53. > :07:01.nuclear deterrent, is a good idea, but in actual fact... Presumably
:07:02. > :07:07.they do? There are certainly some in the military, and some of the more
:07:08. > :07:10.senior armoury officers -- army officers who don't like Trident. And
:07:11. > :07:14.there is a debate about that. Probably the majority do like it and
:07:15. > :07:17.feel that it should be there. They don't like it, but they feel it
:07:18. > :07:22.should be there. And I have to say, I share that view. I have been
:07:23. > :07:26.deeply involved in the nuclear issue for 30 years. These arguments which
:07:27. > :07:30.the Labour Party have gone through, I have been through them so many
:07:31. > :07:36.times and I am convinced that disarmament is not our good idea.
:07:37. > :07:41.Would you resign that the Labour whip if they took the oath? It is
:07:42. > :07:46.highly likely that I would resign if they decided that we would become
:07:47. > :07:54.unilateral. Because I am not a member of the military serving as an
:07:55. > :07:58.officer so I have that luxury. But the military should get on with it,
:07:59. > :08:01.and I think they will. My late father was in the Army added to the
:08:02. > :08:04.purist view that he was there to fight for Queen and country and he
:08:05. > :08:06.never even voted in the general election although we had robust
:08:07. > :08:11.conservative views. I think there is a danger and it would be wrong to
:08:12. > :08:18.overstate this, I think he went slightly over the line to say that
:08:19. > :08:22.it was deservedly about Jeremy Corbyn. I think one of the strengths
:08:23. > :08:26.of the armed services, one of the reasons that along with the
:08:27. > :08:30.monarchy, it retains such a great public support, is that it is seen
:08:31. > :08:34.as being above politics. It needs to make sure it is that at all times.
:08:35. > :08:38.My frustration with this debate is we are talking about process and not
:08:39. > :08:45.about the issues. But process is quite important. It interesting,
:08:46. > :08:47.because Lord West explained frustration about someone stepping
:08:48. > :08:52.over the line but now we are having a debate about you potentially
:08:53. > :08:57.resigning the web. As a new MP, instinctively inclined to vote for
:08:58. > :09:01.renewal, I am open to debate on both sides and I want to listen to all
:09:02. > :09:04.the arguments, sides and I want to listen to all
:09:05. > :09:08.the range of opinions in the military. Jeremy has come into power
:09:09. > :09:10.the range of opinions in the and he will not be Prime Minister
:09:11. > :09:21.for another four and he will not be Prime Minister for another,. -- four
:09:22. > :09:24.and a half years. Except we have MPs who say that Labour will not have a
:09:25. > :09:25.settled view by that point. Kier Starmer said
:09:26. > :09:28.settled view by that point. Kier there could be a timing issue and
:09:29. > :09:32.that is the problem when there could be a timing issue and
:09:33. > :09:37.votes because Labour has not agreed. Which is why we need to get to the
:09:38. > :09:41.issues. There are a range of issues in the
:09:42. > :09:44.issues. There are a range of issues once debate. Let's have a
:09:45. > :09:45.issues. There are a range of issues learn from it. On that basis,
:09:46. > :09:47.issues. There are a range of issues think that Jeremy Corbyn could be
:09:48. > :09:54.persuaded to think that Jeremy Corbyn could be
:09:55. > :09:57.Party as a whole. Murray eagles has said that they are going
:09:58. > :10:00.Party as a whole. Murray eagles has debate in the Labour Party and that
:10:01. > :10:07.will start. But the Shadow Home Secretary is disagreeing with the
:10:08. > :10:11.Labour Party. Do you think you could change is mind? We have seen it
:10:12. > :10:14.before. The Lib Dems found out that when you never think you are going
:10:15. > :10:18.to be in power, you can say all sorts of nonsense. I am afraid that
:10:19. > :10:22.Jeremy, before he was elected, he was in that arena. Now you suddenly
:10:23. > :10:26.find you have got to actually do real things, and it is much harder.
:10:27. > :10:30.You have to focus. The Wilson government said that they were going
:10:31. > :10:33.to scrap the deterrent when they came into power, and when they got
:10:34. > :10:36.there, they had all the briefings and looked at it and they changed
:10:37. > :10:39.their mind. I think Jeremy Corbyn is the sort of chap who will have a
:10:40. > :10:44.debate and listen to it. I think there is a possibility we might
:10:45. > :10:46.change our mind. His electorate would not like to think that if they
:10:47. > :10:50.were all killed, and the children would not like to think that if they
:10:51. > :11:02.looking after them said he would turn the other cheek. I have been so
:11:03. > :11:05.closely involved in this for so long... And are encroached
:11:06. > :11:10.positions. But it goes beyond deterrence. Alan has touched on
:11:11. > :11:13.this, because there is the issue of a world where we are not able to
:11:14. > :11:16.spend endless amounts on defence, and the notion of ring fencing money
:11:17. > :11:18.spend endless amounts on defence, that would otherwise go to Trident
:11:19. > :11:20.to go to conventional warfare, that is part of the argument. I am with
:11:21. > :11:30.you. It want, is part of the argument. I am with
:11:31. > :11:35.we will be talking about that in a moment. Could this split the Labour
:11:36. > :11:37.Party? If we have the issue where the Shadow Defence Secretary says he
:11:38. > :11:41.agrees with Sir Nicholas Houghton rather than Jeremy Corbyn, is that a
:11:42. > :11:46.risk? Yes, but there are lots of risks that could split the party.
:11:47. > :11:51.Could it become your Europe? Now, because I think the issue will be
:11:52. > :11:55.settled by next summer. I think the issue will move forward and the
:11:56. > :11:59.party will move on. Lastly, do you think that Jeremy Corbyn's
:12:00. > :12:06.unilateralism mind is not changed, would make him unfit to to be Prime
:12:07. > :12:08.Minister? I think you could still be Prime Minister but it would be
:12:09. > :12:12.completely the wrong thing to do and I think it would be more dangerous
:12:13. > :12:14.for our people and our country. It would be up to the country to
:12:15. > :12:20.decide, wouldn't it? Thank you both. what is the House
:12:21. > :12:26.of Commons due to debate this week? Is it moving the UK parliament to
:12:27. > :12:29.Strasbourg whilst restoration work is carried out on the Palace
:12:30. > :12:32.of Westminster? Is it selling off Whitehall to build
:12:33. > :12:36.new homes. Or is it putting a pop up bar in
:12:37. > :12:44.the House of Lords? At the end of the show one
:12:45. > :12:47.of our guests, may just give us With the Spending Review just over
:12:48. > :12:51.a couple of weeks away these are Some conscientious ministers have
:12:52. > :12:54.already handed in their work, some wayward types appear to be
:12:55. > :12:57.leaving it to the last minute. George Osborne is demanding savings
:12:58. > :12:59.on day-to-day spending of between 25% and 40% by the end
:13:00. > :13:02.of this Parliament to help remove Some lucky ministers, including
:13:03. > :13:05.Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, International Development Secretary
:13:06. > :13:08.Justine Greening and Health's Jeremy Hunt, have some or all of
:13:09. > :13:11.their departments protected, meaning This morning the Chancellor has
:13:12. > :13:21.announced who is in his good books, Transport's Patrick McLoughlin,
:13:22. > :13:23.Environment Secretary Liz Truss and Greg Clarke from Communities and
:13:24. > :13:25.Local Government are the teachers pets as they,
:13:26. > :13:28.along with the Treasury, have worked Some ministers however have
:13:29. > :13:41.been less forthcoming. Home Secretary Theresa May is
:13:42. > :13:43.holding out, there are reports she's particularly concerned
:13:44. > :13:45.about cuts to police numbers. It's believed Mr Osborne is keen to
:13:46. > :14:02.use Mr Duncan Smith's budget to find the ?4 billion of savings that he
:14:03. > :14:05.would have made with tax credits. The Work and Pensions Secretary is
:14:06. > :14:07.said to be unhappy about the plans and there are reports
:14:08. > :14:10.of furious rows behind the scenes. One thing this morning we have
:14:11. > :14:13.learnt will be in the Spending Review is the building
:14:14. > :14:16.of nine new prisons at a cost of more than ?1 billion, although
:14:17. > :14:19.the Ministry of Justice hope it Speaking earlier,
:14:20. > :14:27.George Osborne said this. Why he believed further savings were
:14:28. > :14:34.necessary. We are still spending too much. We are set to borrow more than
:14:35. > :14:39.?70 billion this year, added to our current mountain of debt, currently
:14:40. > :14:44.over ?1.5 trillion. That national debt reached 80% of our national
:14:45. > :14:48.income this year. While that is high, our economic security is in
:14:49. > :14:53.danger. No one knows what the next economic crisis to hit our world
:14:54. > :14:57.will be or when it will come. But we know we haven't abolished boom and
:14:58. > :15:00.bust. We know we must prepare for whatever the world throws at us. We
:15:01. > :15:06.know that if we don't control spending, we run the risk of higher
:15:07. > :15:11.mortgage rates and a loss of confidence in our economy. And we
:15:12. > :15:16.know for certain that will lead to job losses, businesses closing down,
:15:17. > :15:17.homes being repossessed and the livelihoods of working people
:15:18. > :15:20.destroyed. And with us now is Paul Johnson from
:15:21. > :15:30.the Institute of Fiscal Studies. Able, The savings that we have heard
:15:31. > :15:35.about today is about day-to-day spending, what we call current
:15:36. > :15:39.spending, is it as big a deal as George Osborne says? The amount he
:15:40. > :15:43.has found is small. He is not looking at most of the transport
:15:44. > :15:48.budget, just the day-to-day spending and most of transport is capital
:15:49. > :15:52.spending. He is not even looking at most of local government spending.
:15:53. > :15:55.It is just a bit of what the department spends. The Treasury is
:15:56. > :15:59.small. The amount of billions he has found is not many. But it is an
:16:00. > :16:05.indication of scale we would expect for the rest of the Parliament. He
:16:06. > :16:10.is making a big show of these departments that have found the
:16:11. > :16:13.spending, but in a way it is the low hanging fruit of the departments. It
:16:14. > :16:17.is the little bits of departments. He has not settled with transport,
:16:18. > :16:22.because the big bit is capital and he has not settled with communities
:16:23. > :16:26.and local government, this is is not the main local government grant and
:16:27. > :16:31.does not tell us what total spending will be. A lot is paid for by
:16:32. > :16:38.Council Tax and business rates. George Osborne's argument is with
:16:39. > :16:43.debt at 80% of national income, the government needs to prepare for
:16:44. > :16:48.another crash. Is 80% too large a proportion? It is more than it has
:16:49. > :16:53.been at any time since the mid 1960s. So that is large in that
:16:54. > :16:59.perspective. If you look back to the Second World War we were over 200%
:17:00. > :17:03.of national income. The question is what are the risks that are
:17:04. > :17:08.associated with going into the 2020s with a debt at 80% if we had another
:17:09. > :17:14.big crash, that would take it up to 120% and is that too much or not? As
:17:15. > :17:19.ever with these things, there is a balance of risks. The risk he is
:17:20. > :17:23.taking is big cuts in spending and the risk by not taking it the
:17:24. > :17:30.potential for the trouble that could be caused by another recession with
:17:31. > :17:37.80% as debt. If you take those cuts into account, what would be the dept
:17:38. > :17:43.made to national debt? What we are looking at in getting to 2020 with a
:17:44. > :17:48.balanced budget or a surplus f you maintain, the debt comes down
:17:49. > :17:53.relatively quickly f the economy grows 2 or 3% a year. But it still
:17:54. > :18:00.above where it was before the recession. In the Financial Times it
:18:01. > :18:04.is reported there could be some wriggle room because of continued
:18:05. > :18:09.low interest rates that may extend into next year and 2017. How much
:18:10. > :18:15.does that give the Chancellor to play with? Difficult to sell now, we
:18:16. > :18:19.will wait for what the Office of Budget Responsibility says. He has
:18:20. > :18:26.had this benefit a couple of times in the past. A couple of years ago
:18:27. > :18:32.interest rates and inflation expectations were down. And looking
:18:33. > :18:40.forward the shocks won't always be in this direction. The low interest
:18:41. > :18:47.rate cuts both ways. We have had seven and half years and they don't
:18:48. > :18:50.need to raise much to have an impact on the debt pile. I think George
:18:51. > :18:55.Osborne is right, we need to actress this and there are -- address this
:18:56. > :19:04.and the economic clouds are darkening. . It is good to talk
:19:05. > :19:09.about debt. Because debt has risen And has risen despite the government
:19:10. > :19:14.boasting about bringing down the deficit in part. Debt has not come
:19:15. > :19:19.down. No, the deficit means you're adding to the debt each year. So the
:19:20. > :19:23.question even if you make the cuts, how much of a dent would it ma I can
:19:24. > :19:28.to the national debt. The issue is the confidence of the capital
:19:29. > :19:33.markets, because it has been one of the successes that George Osborne
:19:34. > :19:36.can point to compared to the other options that he has had the
:19:37. > :19:41.confidence of the markets and we have a plan and we are working on
:19:42. > :19:47.that plan. Why not bank that confidence in the capital markets if
:19:48. > :19:52.you like and use it to invest? Why include the capital part of the
:19:53. > :19:58.budget and not as John Macdonald said, use some of that to invest to
:19:59. > :20:02.grow the economy. I would watch what will happen on 25th November at the
:20:03. > :20:09.autumn review. I suspect there may be not on a huge scale, but elements
:20:10. > :20:13.of that there. And we have had a situation that actually the
:20:14. > :20:17.transport budget, the day-to-day budget, is neither here nor there,
:20:18. > :20:24.most of it is large long lasting projects. Do you think it wrong to
:20:25. > :20:28.have that fiscal charter which binds the government to balance the books
:20:29. > :20:33.and keep a surplus on both the budgets. No, it is the rights thing
:20:34. > :20:39.to do. Partly because of the confidence of markets and to make it
:20:40. > :20:42.clear we have a plan, OK, there will be some pragmatic flexibility in the
:20:43. > :20:49.plan from year-to-year. That has happened in the last government and
:20:50. > :20:53.will happen. The flexibility is towards the end of electoral cycle
:20:54. > :20:59.and that is what we have seen. It is interesting that each election that
:21:00. > :21:04.the Tories have Bon, have been done on an ideological platform but they
:21:05. > :21:09.come back to the darling plan by the end of the government. How would
:21:10. > :21:16.Labour cut the deficit. The thing about the dech sit is about --
:21:17. > :21:21.deficit is aimed for a balanced budget. How would you cut the
:21:22. > :21:25.deficit. John Macdonald said he would raise taxes. I
:21:26. > :21:33.deficit. John Macdonald said he paying down the debt
:21:34. > :21:34.deficit. John Macdonald said he growing and has been growing. Yes,
:21:35. > :21:40.but getting growing growing and has been growing. Yes,
:21:41. > :21:44.been bumping along the bottom... Both the last three years...
:21:45. > :21:47.Productivity is comes from a Both the last three years...
:21:48. > :21:49.specific part of the economy in the city of London. We don't
:21:50. > :21:51.specific part of the economy in the industrial platform or growth.
:21:52. > :21:57.specific part of the economy in the services as a whole. The
:21:58. > :22:03.of England, people who are unemployed are against it, small
:22:04. > :22:09.businesses, we have favs and high start ups, but we don't have the
:22:10. > :22:13.growth and that is where the real growth needs to come from. Should
:22:14. > :22:21.the money if there is wriggle room be used to lessen the impact of the
:22:22. > :22:27.cuts? It will be use fodder that. -- used for that. It will be utilised
:22:28. > :22:29.and we will touch on the tax credit. You think that is right. What about
:22:30. > :22:34.the building of prisons. Nine new You think that is right. What about
:22:35. > :22:44.prisons. In fairness part of that will
:22:45. > :22:47.central... Something like Pentonville you will build luxury
:22:48. > :22:53.flats on the site and relocate it and a lot of that will be
:22:54. > :22:57.investment, but will wash its face. We need to renew the physical side
:22:58. > :23:04.of Prison Service and to invest in the social side and make sure that
:23:05. > :23:06.we invest more in breaking the cycle of crime that goes on within
:23:07. > :23:17.prisons. You're going to of crime that goes on within
:23:18. > :23:22.us. What to the votersers think about what we spend on benefits. If
:23:23. > :23:28.only there was a way to find out. Well here is Adam. Everyone loves a
:23:29. > :23:30.discussion about the welfare state on the way to work. So are we
:23:31. > :23:41.spending too much on on the way to work. So are we
:23:42. > :23:47.benefits. A lot of people who are destitute. So too little. Grab a
:23:48. > :23:51.green ball. They have enough for us here, but it is so many that comes
:23:52. > :23:59.from abroad. I don't think that is enough. It spreads for too many
:24:00. > :24:05.people. If you can afford tattoos and smoke or things like that, why
:24:06. > :24:12.should you be claiming benefits? What would you increase? Maybe the
:24:13. > :24:18.tax credits. Controversial. People are suffering. I want you to picture
:24:19. > :24:23.the benefits bill. It is ?202 billion a year. Is that too much? No
:24:24. > :24:30.it is too little. How much more would you spend? Probably about
:24:31. > :24:42.another half again. Really? Yes, why not? I get all benefits, DLA and
:24:43. > :24:46.housing benefit and I have applied for extra benefit. Hopefully I will
:24:47. > :24:53.get that. Your benefits could be going up. Yes, why not. Grab a ball
:24:54. > :25:02.then. Pop it in. She had taken it and run away. You have to put it in
:25:03. > :25:07.the box. It is not a benefit! You put that in very forcefully. I
:25:08. > :25:11.believe strongly. I why do you think we spend too much? Because I think
:25:12. > :25:15.we can't afford it for a start. There are too many other things that
:25:16. > :25:22.we need to spend it on. I think we have fallen into a culture of all
:25:23. > :25:27.rights and no responsibilities. Nobody has a right to endless free
:25:28. > :25:32.living. Well people don't like discussing the welfare state on the
:25:33. > :25:38.way to work. We have an embarrassing meagre number of balls. I think this
:25:39. > :25:42.side's slightly in the lead though. Not much in it. How much of a hit do
:25:43. > :25:47.you think the welfare budget is going to have to take? Or will have
:25:48. > :25:54.to take? That is really largely been announced. The Chancellor announced
:25:55. > :26:01.12 billion of cuts in July. This is what causing him problems, for
:26:02. > :26:06.billion was to come from tax credit cut and it looks like there will be
:26:07. > :26:14.some rowing back from that as a result of vote in the House of
:26:15. > :26:18.Lords. But the 12 billion was in the manifesto and what is being
:26:19. > :26:22.delivered is less. We are aiming at 2020 and we are not sure if we will
:26:23. > :26:30.get the first four billion next year. Should they cut more from the
:26:31. > :26:34.welfare budget? You have got to realise the politics is the art of
:26:35. > :26:38.possible and what happened with the tax credit changes is a sign it will
:26:39. > :26:43.be difficult to get through not just the House of Lords, but the House of
:26:44. > :26:50.Commons. I have been right in favour of what we are doing on tax credits.
:26:51. > :26:55.It is one of the most pernicious elements of the Brown regime. It is
:26:56. > :27:02.negative income tax. Hang on. No, what it was you have to remember why
:27:03. > :27:07.we had tax credits, was that we brought in the minimum wage and your
:27:08. > :27:14.party opposed it. We needed to find a way, we couldn't have brought in
:27:15. > :27:22.the living wage and we needed to get the supplement. Minimum wage is a
:27:23. > :27:29.maximum wage. Don't talk over each other. Where I will extend an olive
:27:30. > :27:35.branch was to say we should have Tran sixed earlier and we --
:27:36. > :27:39.transitioned earlier we should have transitioned from a tax credits to
:27:40. > :27:43.increasing the minimum wage. Your party would have opposed it. We
:27:44. > :27:48.should have made that transition in government. But the problem is the
:27:49. > :27:55.transition now, you're going to cut tax credits and not supplement it
:27:56. > :27:59.with the so-called living wage for another three and a half or four
:28:00. > :28:03.years. So let's see what happens when George Osborne makes his
:28:04. > :28:06.statement. In the battle between George Osborne and Iain Duncan Smith
:28:07. > :28:14.you said you think he was doing the right thing with tax credits, whose
:28:15. > :28:19.side are you on if Iain Duncan Smith digs his heel in. That is up to
:28:20. > :28:24.them. They have got to work it out. Whose side are you on? I think we
:28:25. > :28:28.have got the welfare budget is too high and we need, because I think
:28:29. > :28:34.the economic clouds are darkening and we need to address this and
:28:35. > :28:38.particularly the whole tax credits. There is a irony in fairness one of
:28:39. > :28:44.reasons we have had the jobs miracle, because we have had tax
:28:45. > :28:47.credit and subsidised employment and keep employment levels up. Now you
:28:48. > :28:55.want the pull the rug in under people? Now we want to eget
:28:56. > :29:00.employers to realised a minimum wage shouldn't be a maximum wage.
:29:01. > :29:06.Although put the mood box to one side that said it was too much. The
:29:07. > :29:17.public tend to be on the side of cutting the welfare bill. Saying it
:29:18. > :29:23.is too expensive. The public want value for money and sensitive tot
:29:24. > :29:27.itive to the fact that their money is hard earn and they want the
:29:28. > :29:30.Government to spend the money wisely. But the public are sensitive
:29:31. > :29:35.to fairness and want to make sure that people in need of support get
:29:36. > :29:41.the support and that is why the mood box shows a more balanced view than
:29:42. > :29:44.two years ago. After this tax credit cuts problem, are you worried that
:29:45. > :29:49.George Osborne has lost his credibility? No it is a short-term
:29:50. > :29:53.thing. The issue is none of the options for getting out of this will
:29:54. > :29:59.be easy. He has made it clear that we are not going to ignore the House
:30:00. > :30:05.of Lords. I would be happy to support him continuing with this
:30:06. > :30:10.policy. My instinct is what might happen is that we cannot, this
:30:11. > :30:14.element of policy and bring in the changes for any new applicants. The
:30:15. > :30:19.truth that does leave a gap in what we are trying to achieve this
:30:20. > :30:27.getting the budget down. It only needs a another 0.2% growth and that
:30:28. > :30:32.can be bridged. What are the options in terms of tweaking the tax credits
:30:33. > :30:34.or putting money in, are those the things that are on offer to George
:30:35. > :30:49.Osborne? The trust in long-term savings, then
:30:50. > :30:53.just doing this for new applicants, or as you roll onto Universal
:30:54. > :30:58.Credit, don't change the system that was cut. The system that was cut.
:30:59. > :31:02.There were big. You could do nothing to the current system. And then once
:31:03. > :31:06.Universal Credit is in place, you have made the savings. But it is
:31:07. > :31:09.important to be clear that there is an issue here for the Chancellor,
:31:10. > :31:16.because he set himself a welfare cap for next year. Does the tax credit
:31:17. > :31:29.changes for 2016, he will likely bust the welfare cap, which means he
:31:30. > :31:32.will have to go back to back to Parliament to ask them to give him
:31:33. > :31:34.more money to spend on welfare, which of course he can do, but it
:31:35. > :31:37.might be a little bit embarrassing because there are constraints year.
:31:38. > :31:40.There is a constraint for 2016 and he is also got a overall budget
:31:41. > :31:41.constraint for 2020. And meeting the latter might be easier than meeting
:31:42. > :31:42.the former. Thank you. The Prime Minister has told the CBI
:31:43. > :31:44.annual conference that he is "deadly serious" about securing
:31:45. > :31:47.reform in Europe and has "no emotional attachment" to the
:31:48. > :31:50.institutions of the EU. In a speech this morning,
:31:51. > :31:53.Mr Cameron said he wasn't going to pretend for a second that Britain
:31:54. > :31:55.couldn't survive outside the EU and he stressed
:31:56. > :31:58.that the key goal was to secure Let's listen to what the PM had
:31:59. > :32:11.to say just a little earlier. The argument isn't whether Britain
:32:12. > :32:15.could survive outside the EU, of course it could. The argument is how
:32:16. > :32:21.are we going to be best off. That is the argument that I hope we're going
:32:22. > :32:26.to be making together after this successful negotiation. When it
:32:27. > :32:28.comes to the crucial issues, our prosperity, our national security,
:32:29. > :32:33.of course we can prosperity, our national security,
:32:34. > :32:39.those things outside the EU, and how we make ourselves more
:32:40. > :32:42.Joining me now is the UKIP MP Douglas Carswell.
:32:43. > :32:49.Welcome back to the Daily Politics. Mark, recent reports suggest the
:32:50. > :32:55.Prime Minister is preparing to watered-down plans to ban EU
:32:56. > :32:58.migrants from claiming in work benefits for four years. Would you
:32:59. > :33:03.like him to stick to the plan of four years? I would like him to put
:33:04. > :33:07.this forward but inevitably this is going to be a negotiation that will
:33:08. > :33:11.have to take place. The important thing about all of the reforms, the
:33:12. > :33:15.EU is clearly a body that needs reform. I am under no illusions
:33:16. > :33:20.about that. I don't think it is a perfect institution at all. However,
:33:21. > :33:24.we need to recognise that this is a down payment of reform. I hope we
:33:25. > :33:32.will get a package to be put to the electorate at some point in the next
:33:33. > :33:35.year or so but however, the truth is this has got to be not a destination
:33:36. > :33:39.but a process. I think in years to come, reform is something we need to
:33:40. > :33:42.look at and take EU members with an attorney. If like many of the other
:33:43. > :33:47.things on the shopping list, although we don't know the detail,
:33:48. > :33:51.David Cameron has been advised by civil senior servants that they are
:33:52. > :33:55.not achievable. As you say, it is a journey but will that be enough to
:33:56. > :34:04.convince people, on trust, an something happening down the line,
:34:05. > :34:08.that we might actually lay treble -- actually get something as important
:34:09. > :34:13.as reforming benefits? I think that is an important part of it. But with
:34:14. > :34:17.regards to the broader competitive agenda, making sure that Britain is
:34:18. > :34:22.capable and protected outside the euro zone, I think the important
:34:23. > :34:26.thing is that there is a package that David Cameron comes back with,
:34:27. > :34:30.not just for UK exceptionalism but for the reforms that needs to happen
:34:31. > :34:33.in the EU as a whole. Also, a programme of reform that will extend
:34:34. > :34:37.beyond the referendum. David Cameron says that a vote to leave the EU is
:34:38. > :34:42.not without risk. Did you accept that? The risky option would be to
:34:43. > :34:45.say that we would remain part of a group of countries
:34:46. > :34:46.say that we would remain part of a control. The EU cannot deal
:34:47. > :34:49.say that we would remain part of a huge economic and demographic and
:34:50. > :34:52.technological changes that are happening around the world.
:34:53. > :34:55.technological changes that are have lost control of the agenda.
:34:56. > :34:59.They cannot control currency or borders. The risky option would be
:35:00. > :35:01.to show our -- through our lot in with a feeling project. We need to
:35:02. > :35:06.take back control. But do you with a feeling project. We need to
:35:07. > :35:13.the point that it is not without risk to leave the EU? I think
:35:14. > :35:17.the point that it is not without less risky option is leave the EU.
:35:18. > :35:22.Is the more honest argument from the banister, as he says it is not about
:35:23. > :35:25.whether the UK can survive outside, because he accept that we can, but
:35:26. > :35:30.it is about which option will make the UK more prosperous and secure,
:35:31. > :35:34.so there is a more honest argument. If he was going to be honest he
:35:35. > :35:37.would be telling us that he is planning on having this in June and
:35:38. > :35:43.he's not going to get any significant new deal. I have to say,
:35:44. > :35:48.if there is honesty, I don't think the CBI is the forum to discuss it,
:35:49. > :35:53.given that they have been releasing some dodgy bowling. Will he
:35:54. > :35:56.presented as a big win? I think he will be candid about it and I think
:35:57. > :36:03.that they are looking at the other options. What are they? Can we see a
:36:04. > :36:06.list of the reforms? We are going to have a letter tomorrow and it will
:36:07. > :36:09.not be a bullet pointed list but it will look at the areas in which we
:36:10. > :36:14.are looking to continue to negotiate. I have been struck by
:36:15. > :36:17.David Cameron and Philip Hammond, because they have been out in many
:36:18. > :36:22.of the European capitals over the last few months, looking to build an
:36:23. > :36:26.alliance on to make this sort of reform. Everyone recognises that the
:36:27. > :36:31.EU needs these reforms. You have to look at the other options, you are
:36:32. > :36:35.right. The notion that we can restate the Commonwealth, I mean,
:36:36. > :36:38.the Indians laugh at the facility, how facile that prospect is.
:36:39. > :36:44.Australia, New Zealand, they see themselves as Asian nations. What
:36:45. > :36:50.has happened in Canada, we might be able to cut a deal with Stephen
:36:51. > :36:56.Harper but not Trudeau. I think it is perfectly possible for us to...
:36:57. > :37:02.Ascot the Norwegians and the Swiss. They trade outside the EU, and
:37:03. > :37:07.profitably. But the officials do not because they negotiate these
:37:08. > :37:10.conditions as a condition of joining. The problem you have is
:37:11. > :37:14.that the European Union you describe is unrecognisable to the millions of
:37:15. > :37:17.people... Let me finish. It is unrecognisable to the millions who
:37:18. > :37:23.visit Europe in the last couple of months. You have described something
:37:24. > :37:32.that is just destitute. Morally, economically and socially. This is a
:37:33. > :37:37.hyperbole... It is their to say that the Labour Party's position is to
:37:38. > :37:43.stay in, whatever the report. But also, the focus on the rapport. It
:37:44. > :37:47.comes down to the fact that people in this country are supportive of
:37:48. > :37:52.the European Union. -- focus on the reform. We will have a referendum
:37:53. > :37:57.and we will see. We don't want to stay in at any price... But let's
:37:58. > :38:01.see what the voters say. We were famously in the same lobby in 2011,
:38:02. > :38:08.voting in favour of the referendum. I think the public needs to have a
:38:09. > :38:09.say. We want the Europeans to stop meddling in details of the country,
:38:10. > :38:14.and focus on the big issues. Well David Cameron was speaking
:38:15. > :38:16.at the CBI conference in Their Director General,
:38:17. > :38:23.John Cridland joins us now. Welcome to the programme. The Prime
:38:24. > :38:28.Minister argues that a vote to leave the EU is not risk-free but he rules
:38:29. > :38:32.nothing out of the cannot secure necessary reform. Do you rule
:38:33. > :38:36.nothing out? I am encouraged that the Prime Minister is serious about
:38:37. > :38:40.that reform and that process is what we will need to convince British
:38:41. > :38:44.business and the public that Europe is the way forward. For me, reform
:38:45. > :38:49.is everything and we have heard from my own Prime Minister, committing to
:38:50. > :38:55.a strong reform agenda, and from the tee shot, the Minister of Ireland,
:38:56. > :39:00.how important it is that he helps Britain support that reform because
:39:01. > :39:11.Ireland wants Britain to be in. Most Britons want to stay in a reformed
:39:12. > :39:16.EU. That is the issue of the day. But if the majority of your members
:39:17. > :39:20.vote to leave, eight out of ten firms who attended the July meeting
:39:21. > :39:23.of the CBI Presidents committee are not actually allowed to support any
:39:24. > :39:30.political campaigning, so whose views do you represent? I represent
:39:31. > :39:36.the views of 190,000 businesses, which through our 140 trade
:39:37. > :39:40.associations, we speak for, employing 7 million workers. And the
:39:41. > :39:47.large majority of those want to remain in a reformed EU, not the EU
:39:48. > :39:51.of the status quo. And I am always happy to debate on the issues, but
:39:52. > :40:00.they don't seem to want to debate on the issues. They just want to debate
:40:01. > :40:05.on bits of process. John Criddle and saying that the majority of his
:40:06. > :40:12.members want to stay within the EU. -- Tabak. These CBI polls measure
:40:13. > :40:16.voter opinion in the way that Volkswagen measure emissions. They
:40:17. > :40:20.are inherently dodgy. They claim that eight out of ten... They have
:40:21. > :40:27.not actually said that, Douglas Carswell. Let's look at objective
:40:28. > :40:29.assessment. Ernst Young, the Federation of Small Businesses,
:40:30. > :40:36.business for Britain, they have produced calling data that produces
:40:37. > :40:39.the business -- that shows that business is divided. Douglas
:40:40. > :40:45.Carswell says dodgy, in terms of the way you do polling. I can speak with
:40:46. > :40:49.a strong mandate from my members, and I spent five years in this job.
:40:50. > :40:54.I don't think I would be doing this job if I was not speaking for the
:40:55. > :40:58.voice of British business. There are more than 1000 small and medium-size
:40:59. > :41:02.businesses in the room behind me and they have listened patiently and
:41:03. > :41:06.politely to political speakers who have debated this issue this
:41:07. > :41:09.morning. Of course, there are a variety of views and the more
:41:10. > :41:13.international business, the more likely they are to see the upside to
:41:14. > :41:16.Europe. The more domestic the business, the more likely they are
:41:17. > :41:19.to see the downside. So you would expect a different business
:41:20. > :41:23.organisations with different membership profiles to come up with
:41:24. > :41:26.different results. Let's look at these pictures because as the Prime
:41:27. > :41:31.Minister was speaking, some protesters unfurled a banner which
:41:32. > :41:34.said, CBI, the voice of Brussels. I think you can see that they are.
:41:35. > :41:39.They clearly do not think that you would never recommend to leave the
:41:40. > :41:45.EU. Whatever happens. Reform or not. Are they right to? The word two
:41:46. > :41:48.demonstrators and there were 1000 other people in the room. The
:41:49. > :41:55.demonstrators were politely heard, as I hope my views are. But you have
:41:56. > :41:59.not answered my question, and you said that you desperately want
:42:00. > :42:04.reform. If there is no substantial of reform, would you recommend
:42:05. > :42:07.voters leave to -- vote to leave the EU? I am confident that there will
:42:08. > :42:13.be reform but we will take that reform package back to CBI members
:42:14. > :42:17.and ask them for a renewed mandate. We are not unconditional on being in
:42:18. > :42:23.the EU, we want a reform package. If we get it, we will ask our members
:42:24. > :42:26.whether they are satisfied with it. Welcome to democracy. That is clear.
:42:27. > :42:33.They are going to ask the members again. Leaked members from the --
:42:34. > :42:36.minutes from the board meeting show that they are in at any price. They
:42:37. > :42:40.are possessed about promoting the EU. They wanted Britain to join the
:42:41. > :42:44.euro a decade ago and they wanted us to join the ERM in the 1980s. They
:42:45. > :42:49.were wrong then and they are wrong now. I will come back to you in a
:42:50. > :42:56.moment, John Cridland. I never believed in joining the euro. I am
:42:57. > :43:00.the Director General of the CBI and I speak for the organisation. The
:43:01. > :43:08.CBI is not in favour of joining the euro. What we want to do -- what you
:43:09. > :43:13.seem to want to do is talk over other people. Don't govern him,
:43:14. > :43:17.because we want to hear everybody. The question John Cridland said is
:43:18. > :43:20.even if the leadership of the CBI site that they would advocate to
:43:21. > :43:24.stay in, they are going to give their members a chance to have their
:43:25. > :43:29.say and judgment. Surely that enough? I think it is good that they
:43:30. > :43:32.will ask the members, but the poll that they have produced, showing
:43:33. > :43:36.that eight out of ten businesses support being in the EU is
:43:37. > :43:40.inherently dodgy. I think we have to question whether or not the
:43:41. > :43:44.leadership of the CBI generally reflects business opinion. There are
:43:45. > :43:49.other voices out there that have produced objective data that shows
:43:50. > :43:53.the business is divided. Companies that can afford to hire lobbyists in
:43:54. > :43:58.Brussels might like the system but others that cannot, organisations
:43:59. > :44:02.that are not big banks and lobbies, might recognise that actually the
:44:03. > :44:07.single market... The CBI exists to consult its members and to speak for
:44:08. > :44:11.its members. The idea that you want to... There are other organisations.
:44:12. > :44:15.I am sitting here with two bastions of conservatism and I am pretty
:44:16. > :44:22.proud that I am the only person to let finish a around here. 1-0 for
:44:23. > :44:25.public education. It is right that the CBI listens and represents its
:44:26. > :44:28.members. That is the right process to go through and I am proud that
:44:29. > :44:32.they are doing it. They need to speak with a voice and listen and
:44:33. > :44:36.consult. John does not exist to tell his members what to think, he exists
:44:37. > :44:41.to listen to them and speak for them. Douglas Carswell is obsessed
:44:42. > :44:43.with polling and the process of polling. Let's stick to the issue
:44:44. > :44:48.and let him speak for his members. But shouldn't they be transparent,
:44:49. > :44:52.as transparent as possible about the broad views of business?
:44:53. > :44:58.Absolutely. And John was trying to speak but he was spoken over the top
:44:59. > :45:05.of. You have made that point. As a pushy grammar schoolboy, I have to
:45:06. > :45:09.say... The difficulty of your stands, Douglas, you started by
:45:10. > :45:13.single thing was a sham and we would get no reform. We're going to get
:45:14. > :45:17.reform but you will say that is nothing like enough. You are going
:45:18. > :45:23.to say it is smoke and mirrors, come the referendum. I think we are going
:45:24. > :45:26.to get a package here. I hope there will be some exceptions, that we
:45:27. > :45:30.will be able to get a good deal for Britain but also, we all know that
:45:31. > :45:35.this institution does require reform. We are members of lots of
:45:36. > :45:39.institutions, like the UN, which disappoints us from time to time. We
:45:40. > :45:43.are members of NATO and various elements of that disappoint us. It
:45:44. > :45:43.does not mean we walk out, we want to play an ongoing role and try to
:45:44. > :45:53.make it better. John Cridland, you're stepping down
:45:54. > :45:58.and on our membership of the EU, are you at your successor at one? Yes.
:45:59. > :46:05.We want Europe to do more of what it does well and less of what it does
:46:06. > :46:11.badly. British business wants a better deal from Europe and Caroline
:46:12. > :46:16.will continue to represent the views of broad mass of business. Would you
:46:17. > :46:21.be a dpan of having the referendum in June? -- fan. I want to have the
:46:22. > :46:26.referendum when we have the reform package and so the public can make
:46:27. > :46:32.an informed choice. Thank you. Next June, you would be in favour of next
:46:33. > :46:40.June? I I want it as soon as possible. We are committed to having
:46:41. > :46:43.reform and it shouldn't be rushed. But for certainty let's get this
:46:44. > :46:51.done and But for certainty let's get this
:46:52. > :46:55.it is conducted honestly with honest polling.
:46:56. > :47:00.Now how's the political calendar shaping up this week?
:47:01. > :47:02.the Scottish Parliament, will complete its stages in the Commons
:47:03. > :47:07.And tomorrow the Trade Union Bill should also complete its final
:47:08. > :47:10.stages in the Commons before MPS pack up for a short recess.
:47:11. > :47:11.On Wednesday the European Union will hold
:47:12. > :47:16.And on Thursday Britain plays host to the Prime Minister of India,
:47:17. > :47:24.The first visit by an Indian Prime Minister for over ten years.
:47:25. > :47:26.Let's talk now to Kevin Maguire from the Mirror and Sam Coates
:47:27. > :47:40.There may are outside st houses of Parliament. The spending review, how
:47:41. > :47:43.tricky is this row going to be an Iain Duncan Smith and George
:47:44. > :47:47.Osborne. Will Iain Duncan Smith win or will he be forced to resign? If I
:47:48. > :47:55.knew that, I would be a rich man. But it is a live and quite personal
:47:56. > :47:58.row between these two. At stake is Iain Duncan Smith's flagship
:47:59. > :48:03.project, universal credit to help people to earn more in work. George
:48:04. > :48:08.Osborne has come into try and raid it and George Osborne wants between
:48:09. > :48:13.one and two billion out of project in order to pay for what was a mess
:48:14. > :48:19.up with tax credits after the House of Lords rejected the plans to cut
:48:20. > :48:23.about a thousand pounds from three million low paid households. I
:48:24. > :48:29.wouldn't expect Iain Duncan Smith to go without quite a fight. Whether he
:48:30. > :48:33.encourages George Osborne to back down, or points him in another
:48:34. > :48:38.direction of his budget for savings, we are still waiting to find out.
:48:39. > :48:43.They have got two weeks. There is in spending review times that is a long
:48:44. > :48:48.time. But it is one of most fraught bits of the review. Followed by
:48:49. > :48:55.Theresa May protecting cuts to police. Is that again going to be
:48:56. > :48:58.the battle symbolising for those departments that are unprotected?
:48:59. > :49:04.The Home Office is in a different place, we are not hearing the
:49:05. > :49:08.squeals of outrage you do from people around Iain Duncan Smith.
:49:09. > :49:12.Theresa May is a canny operator and knows the point that they cut police
:49:13. > :49:20.funding in the last Parliament and yet crime went down and not up. So
:49:21. > :49:24.there is little less squeamishness there about spending. There will be
:49:25. > :49:30.spending for intelligence agencies that will continue to go up. Part of
:49:31. > :49:36.that comes under the Home Office. It will be a mixed picture. But that I
:49:37. > :49:44.don't think feel like it is at the heart of a big battle. Now Jeremy
:49:45. > :49:50.Corbyn and Trident. It is difficult, he is outraged by what he calls a
:49:51. > :49:56.constitutional breach by Nicholas Houghton, but his shadow Defence
:49:57. > :49:59.Secretary seems to agree with the chief of defence. She did initially,
:50:00. > :50:07.not realising that Jeremy Corbyn would make a statement and Maria
:50:08. > :50:15.Eagle is all for Trident, which ever you want, he Jeremy Corbyn, isn't
:50:16. > :50:19.and Downing Street was clear they thought that Nicholas Houghton was
:50:20. > :50:26.entitled to say what he said, I suspect because they did because
:50:27. > :50:32.when another defence staff criticised the military strategy,
:50:33. > :50:36.David Cameron said I will do the talking, you do the fighting. ? A
:50:37. > :50:40.democracy he should not intervene. That is an error on his part and the
:50:41. > :50:44.Conservatives have criticised him and the principle of him intervening
:50:45. > :50:48.and I suspect the SNP are in the same boat and some Labour people who
:50:49. > :50:56.are for renewing Trident, but they will think it is wrong that the head
:50:57. > :51:01.of armed forces is intervening. What about the timings, because if as we
:51:02. > :51:06.were talking, there isn't a settled position on the Labour side, on
:51:07. > :51:13.Trident, one way or the other, before some key votes, that is going
:51:14. > :51:17.to be difficult? Is Yes Labour are in a mess on this. Jeremy Corbyn is
:51:18. > :51:22.against renewing Trident, the position of the party across the UK
:51:23. > :51:26.is to renew it. The Scottish Labour Party have voted against renewing it
:51:27. > :51:29.and in some ways he was saved from himself at the last Labour
:51:30. > :51:35.conference when it wasn't debated, because it would probably have voted
:51:36. > :51:40.to retain Trident and it would have meant if his new politics lets the
:51:41. > :51:44.party make policy, he then presumably would have had to troop
:51:45. > :51:50.into the lobby with the serves to renew Trident. In one way it suits
:51:51. > :51:57.Jeremy Corbyn that no decision is made and until and if it will go his
:51:58. > :52:03.way. Otherwise, he will be in embarrassing position. Worse than
:52:04. > :52:07.now. That will be the key, the timing of the votes. On George
:52:08. > :52:14.Osborne I asked about his credibility, how damaged is it or is
:52:15. > :52:18.it not by the tax credit row? Well I think it is too early to say it has
:52:19. > :52:23.damaged his chances for the leadership, because that is three
:52:24. > :52:30.years away and there will be a lot of ups and Down's before that. The
:52:31. > :52:35.tax credit measure is the biggest item, the biggest change at welfare
:52:36. > :52:39.that I can remember in ten years of covering Parliament and it changed
:52:40. > :52:42.eight million people and made them worse off, including three million
:52:43. > :52:46.who will lose an average of a thousand pounds a year. That is
:52:47. > :52:49.massive and it looks like George Osborne got the tactics wrong,
:52:50. > :52:55.because he put it through the lords as well. He got the strategy wrong
:52:56. > :53:01.and it was hurting hard working family and got the communication
:53:02. > :53:05.wrong by saying there maybe mitigation and many Tory MPs are
:53:06. > :53:07.baffled, because the things that George Osborne should be good at he
:53:08. > :53:11.didn't. Thank you. Now, he's made the Fedora
:53:12. > :53:14.his trademark accessory and he says Now former MP and London mayoral
:53:15. > :53:17.hopeful, George Galloway, has plans to open a shop
:53:18. > :53:21.specialising in vintage clothing. He's even put his money where his
:53:22. > :53:25.mouth is and bought a lease on one In a moment we'll be talking to
:53:26. > :53:29.the man himself but first a reminder of some other politicians
:53:30. > :53:39.that like to cut a dash. # You can win the admiration
:53:40. > :53:52.of the common population # You can be a star,
:53:53. > :53:56.long as you're looking good! # You have made the main connection,
:53:57. > :54:00.you can win the next election # Don't care who you are,
:54:01. > :54:03.just leave them mesmerised, # Long as you're looking good
:54:04. > :54:15.at how much you can get away with # You'll get treatment preferential
:54:16. > :54:20.your main credential # It's a rule rule that's still
:54:21. > :54:24.essentially iron-clad # Remember you can't look
:54:25. > :54:40.back, long as you're looking good! # They air-brushed me. Who is the best
:54:41. > :54:46.dressed politician apart from yourself. You showed a good cross
:54:47. > :54:59.section. Even the unlikely Ronald Reagan, who I thought was imMacyou
:55:00. > :55:04.latly -- well dressed. Even if his brain was missing. Both of your
:55:05. > :55:08.guests this morning in fact are well dressed, well turned out. I won't
:55:09. > :55:13.ask about me. What about Jeremy Corbyn? Well he is actually brushing
:55:14. > :55:19.himself up well now I think. You thought he was a scruff before. He
:55:20. > :55:23.looked fine at the Cenotaph in white tie and tails at the buck pas
:55:24. > :55:30.reception -- Buckingham Palace reception for the chps the Chinese
:55:31. > :55:39.president. He should have discovered this years ago. What about Zac
:55:40. > :55:42.Goldsmith? Yes and he wears vintage clothes and his billionaire father
:55:43. > :55:50.deceased, he wears his suits and wears him well. That is not Vince
:55:51. > :55:57.thaj. -- vintage. Everything I'm wearing apart from the underwear and
:55:58. > :56:03.socks is vintage. I buy my shirts which are bespoke British made, now
:56:04. > :56:10.long extinct English tailors for ?10 a pop. I buy shirts every week at
:56:11. > :56:16.?10 a time. You will pay ?100 for a new shirt made... You have to swap
:56:17. > :56:22.contacts and cards. Give these guys some tips. You mentioned Reagan and
:56:23. > :56:28.we focussed on Margaret Thatcher. Was she stylish. I may not be a
:56:29. > :56:32.gentleman, but I know how gentlemen behave and it was impolite to
:56:33. > :56:40.comment on any woman's dress. But no, I didn't. I thought he was going
:56:41. > :56:46.soft. Do you think the BMA were wrong to turn down the Chancellor? I
:56:47. > :56:52.thought it was lower middle class boredom. In a glass case. I am sure
:56:53. > :56:55.it was a commercial decision that Margaret Thatcher would have
:56:56. > :57:01.approved of. No one would have gone to see it. You know that is a point.
:57:02. > :57:06.What, is it important to look good for politicians? I don't think
:57:07. > :57:16.sharp, politicians need to look authentic. As I'm finished in the
:57:17. > :57:27.House I put jeans on. I dress for the occasion. I want to make sure
:57:28. > :57:33.your shop is a success. I like your suit and lapels. Don't worry I
:57:34. > :57:38.haven't given up politicians. suit and lapels. Don't worry I
:57:39. > :57:45.si Deek Khan be wok? Yes he is third place in the sattorial stakes. I'm
:57:46. > :57:54.third place in the sattorial stakes. I'm
:57:55. > :57:57.am on 33/1 today and Greens and Ukip are on 100/1. Me and Zac are out in
:57:58. > :58:04.front sattorially. Yes. The campaign's going from
:58:05. > :58:06.strength to strength. Have you decided about joining Labour, you
:58:07. > :58:12.wanted there been an invitation? There has
:58:13. > :58:18.been no invitation. It is a question of rescinding. They have to rescind
:58:19. > :58:23.my unjust expulsion opposed by Mr Foot and Mr Benn and Mr Corbyn. But
:58:24. > :58:35.they're showing no sign. Well, watch this space.
:58:36. > :58:38.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:39. > :58:42.The question was - what is the House of Commons due to debate this week?
:58:43. > :58:46.(A) Moving the UK parliament to Strasbourg whilst restoration work
:58:47. > :58:48.(B) Selling off Whitehall to build new homes.
:58:49. > :58:51.(D) Putting a pop up bar in the House of Lords.
:58:52. > :59:06.The knives are sharpened and the heat is on. It can only mean one thing.
:59:07. > :59:11.Britain's best chefs are back in town.
:59:12. > :59:15.They're here because they want this title. I'm really excited.