:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:41.Thousands of homes remain without power in North West England
:00:42. > :00:51.and Scotland following some of the worst flooding seen in years.
:00:52. > :00:53.The Prime Minister, who's been chairing an emergency
:00:54. > :00:56.meeting of the crisis committee, Cobra, will visit some of the worst
:00:57. > :01:04.More armed patrols on Britain's transport network
:01:05. > :01:06.following a suspected terrorist knife attack at the weekend.
:01:07. > :01:10.Should the number of Bishops in the House of Lords be cut to make
:01:11. > :01:23.We'll be finding out who's managed to bag Cartoonist of the Year.
:01:24. > :01:27.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration two new MPs,
:01:28. > :01:35.Conservative MP Andrea Jenkyns caused a bit of a shock
:01:36. > :01:38.when she un-seated Labour's Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls.
:01:39. > :01:42.And Labour's Neil Coyle un-seated Liberal Democrat MP,
:01:43. > :01:44.and Justice Minister, Simon Hughes in Southwark and Bermondsey.
:01:45. > :01:52.Jenkyns, Andrea Marie, the Conservative Party candidate,
:01:53. > :02:13.Coyle, Neil, Labour Party 22,000... CHEERING.
:02:14. > :02:36.What is it like toppling a big political beast? I am pinching
:02:37. > :02:40.myself still, seven months later. I can't believe I'm wearing the same
:02:41. > :02:43.jacket is then. No one would have noticed if you hadn't said
:02:44. > :02:48.anything. What does it feel like though? It's amazing, really. That
:02:49. > :02:52.night of the election, my mum, I walked in at the weekend and she was
:02:53. > :02:58.playing it over again. It's such a privilege. It's a great honour to be
:02:59. > :03:04.here and I'm loving every moment of it. Did you speak to Ed Balls? Heard
:03:05. > :03:09.from him since? He was very gracious on the evening. He was, on the
:03:10. > :03:15.night. What about you? Simon Hughes was very much part of the furniture
:03:16. > :03:18.in Southwark and Bermondsey. He had a solid reputation for doing
:03:19. > :03:22.casework and they were big boots to fill and I've had more than 4000
:03:23. > :03:27.people approach me since May, and it feels a long time ago already. You
:03:28. > :03:31.are thrown in at the deep end to get on with the job casework arrives and
:03:32. > :03:36.you have to do it. Does the shadow of your predecessors haunt you
:03:37. > :03:42.because they were so associated with the seat? A little. It is not even a
:03:43. > :03:49.shadow. I still see Simon out in the constituency. There is a reality to
:03:50. > :03:52.who is not wanted. And all of the casework has been handed over, so
:03:53. > :03:56.there is a continuation for some of the people who you was helping you
:03:57. > :04:00.now see me. The number one issue closes to your heart? Health, that
:04:01. > :04:05.is the reason I went into politics. What do you want to try and achieve?
:04:06. > :04:10.Having lost my heart father through eight hospital infection, and
:04:11. > :04:15.antibiotic resistance has been on the agenda. Two weeks ago I launched
:04:16. > :04:23.a hands hygiene campaign and there is a shocking statistic that 25% of
:04:24. > :04:31.commuters in London have PCs on their hands. So hand hygiene is
:04:32. > :04:36.important to stop infection -- faeces on their hands. We will leave
:04:37. > :04:37.it there. It is time for the daily quiz.
:04:38. > :04:40.The question for today is who does our guest of the day Andrea Jenkyns
:04:41. > :04:52.c) Christine Lagarde or d) current Miss World, Rolene Strauss?
:04:53. > :04:54.At the end of the show, Neil and Andrea will give us
:04:55. > :04:59.Now to the floods, which have left a trail of devastation
:05:00. > :05:04.And with more rain forecast for the North West and Scotland,
:05:05. > :05:07.there appears to be no immediate end to the misery.
:05:08. > :05:10.Thousands of people remain without power and many have had to spend
:05:11. > :05:16.With many transport links still cut, health care will be restricted
:05:17. > :05:20.today and some schools will stay closed.
:05:21. > :05:26.David Cameron will visit some of the worst affected areas this afternoon.
:05:27. > :05:28.He's been chairing a meeting of the Government's Cobra emergencies
:05:29. > :05:37.Let's talk now to our correspondent, Carole Walker.
:05:38. > :05:45.Give us the latest in terms of response from Cobra. As you say,
:05:46. > :05:48.David Cameron chaired the meeting, bringing together the relevant
:05:49. > :05:51.ministers and representatives of some of the emergency services who
:05:52. > :05:56.joined it down the line from some of the badly affected areas. What the
:05:57. > :06:01.government is doing is focusing on the immediate crisis, so that is
:06:02. > :06:07.about checking to make sure that everyone is safe. If there are
:06:08. > :06:11.people in their homes you need to be evacuated that they are taken to
:06:12. > :06:15.safety. Looking at problems with transport links on the roads and
:06:16. > :06:18.bridges that have been cut. On the railway lines, what more can be done
:06:19. > :06:23.to restore some of those vital links. Looking as well at the issue
:06:24. > :06:27.of power. We know that tens of thousands of homes were cut off at
:06:28. > :06:32.some stage. Some of those supplies have been put back on, but not all
:06:33. > :06:36.yet restored. The government is trying to see what more it can do on
:06:37. > :06:40.that because it creates huge problems for hospitals, care homes
:06:41. > :06:44.and the like. We will then move into the second phase, which is looking
:06:45. > :06:48.at what more needs to be done to help some of those communities which
:06:49. > :06:52.now have to cope with the terrible mess and aftermath of the flooding.
:06:53. > :07:00.When Liz Truss makes a statement in the House of Commons we will hear
:07:01. > :07:03.more details about. Beyond that, we are told the government will look at
:07:04. > :07:08.the basis for its planning of the flooding, a review of the
:07:09. > :07:13.assumptions made. We heard from Rory Stewart, the environmentalist,
:07:14. > :07:18.saying -- environment Minister, saying some places at their highest
:07:19. > :07:24.ever rail fall in a short space of time. They are trying to save the
:07:25. > :07:29.basis of planning is the right one or it needs to be prepared for more
:07:30. > :07:33.incidents like this. The criticism, as you know, is that despite the
:07:34. > :07:38.money spent after the last round of severe flooding, they really could
:07:39. > :07:46.not withstand this deluge this time round. Clearly the flood defences,
:07:47. > :07:49.even the new flood defences put in place, in many places they were
:07:50. > :07:54.quite inadequate with the flood waters so high that they came over
:07:55. > :07:57.the top of the defences. The government is saying some of those
:07:58. > :08:03.flood defences did make a difference and gave householders and businesses
:08:04. > :08:09.longer to prepare and evacuate. But there was still huge amounts of
:08:10. > :08:12.damage and difficulty course. Yes, local communities and council
:08:13. > :08:17.leaders are already saying they need more defences and more money spent.
:08:18. > :08:22.The government says it is spending ?2.3 billion over this parliament on
:08:23. > :08:23.flood defences. The question is whether it is being spent
:08:24. > :08:26.flood defences. The question is and whether the government needs to
:08:27. > :08:28.look again at the sort of defences it is building. Carroll,
:08:29. > :08:31.Westminster, thank you. Let's talk now to the
:08:32. > :08:38.Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, Tell us your experiences over the
:08:39. > :08:44.weekend because you were really caught up with it, along with many
:08:45. > :08:48.constituents. Yes, I don't think I had an experience as bad as many
:08:49. > :08:55.people here. I am stood on the street by the bridge, no distance
:08:56. > :09:01.from a seer, and businesses are deluge and out of business potential
:09:02. > :09:05.it -- no distance from us here. Hundreds of families are out of
:09:06. > :09:08.their homes, probably the Christmas and it is heartbreaking. My
:09:09. > :09:14.experience is pretty limited in the context. It is a real reminder that
:09:15. > :09:22.the weather is changing. It certainly appears to be. And we are
:09:23. > :09:25.not getting once in a hundred years deluge is, they are happening on an
:09:26. > :09:30.annual basis. That is something we need to mitigate against. Let's turn
:09:31. > :09:35.to how you would do it. In some ways the level of rain was unprecedented,
:09:36. > :09:40.but you say we are seeing more of this sort of climate extreme. Would
:09:41. > :09:45.you agree it's impossible to protect against such extreme weather events?
:09:46. > :09:50.First of all, a bit difficult to hear you, but I think I got it. In
:09:51. > :09:53.the end, very cautious about pointing the finger at anyone. The
:09:54. > :09:57.reality is that this was extreme weather, but the problem is we are
:09:58. > :10:02.getting more extreme weather more often. This is Cumbria and we are
:10:03. > :10:07.used to challenging and difficult weather conditions. We are made of
:10:08. > :10:11.tough stuff up here. But this is an incredible thing, which has taken
:10:12. > :10:17.everybody by surprise. The question we need to ask ourselves is, whether
:10:18. > :10:21.it was right to cancel some of the funding for flood defence schemes
:10:22. > :10:25.over the last few years. The last three governments bear some
:10:26. > :10:28.responsibility for that. Knowing that if you can protect against
:10:29. > :10:33.these extreme circumstances, then the amount of money you save and the
:10:34. > :10:38.amount of misery you prevent is infinitely greater than the outlay
:10:39. > :10:42.of spending money on the schemes. Which schemes specifically? You said
:10:43. > :10:45.they were promised up the previous floods and then they will shelve and
:10:46. > :10:52.should have been funded, that would be during the coalition time, so
:10:53. > :10:56.which one specifically? There were around 300 across the country which
:10:57. > :11:00.I protested against at the time, and they included one on the River Kent,
:11:01. > :11:07.just yards away from us over to the left. If you spend money in advance
:11:08. > :11:12.on these things, then obviously, if you get extreme weather, then as a
:11:13. > :11:17.consequence you are preventing billions of pounds of damage, not to
:11:18. > :11:22.mention the human misery that those things lead to. I absolutely buy
:11:23. > :11:29.that climate change is happening and this is a consequent change, and
:11:30. > :11:34.it's a consequence of activity over decades, so where do I point the
:11:35. > :11:38.finger? At all others, humankind is responsible. Even if you don't
:11:39. > :11:42.believe it is human created, it is clearly climate change. This is
:11:43. > :11:46.happening more and more often, so the investment in flood defences is
:11:47. > :11:52.necessary and a wise investment. It depends how it is spent, I suppose.
:11:53. > :11:55.Five years ago Carlisle got a ?35 million flood defence scheme and now
:11:56. > :12:00.it is one of the worst affected areas. In a sense, it has obviously
:12:01. > :12:03.been spent in the wrong way or there isn't any amount of money that can
:12:04. > :12:11.protect against that sort of freak weather. To an extent, you are
:12:12. > :12:15.right. It is freak weather and I'm very cautious about pointing the
:12:16. > :12:20.finger at anyone. The main job is to put an arm around people. Because it
:12:21. > :12:24.was the government the Liberal Democrats were involved in last
:12:25. > :12:30.time? No, on these schemes, I pointed the finger then and
:12:31. > :12:36.criticised those schemes in 2012. But the point I'm making, if you
:12:37. > :12:41.look at individual schemes, some will have been overwhelmed even with
:12:42. > :12:47.this weather. But some have actually succeeded. A few years ago here in
:12:48. > :12:52.Kendal, about 500 yards away from where I am stood, that was the part
:12:53. > :12:57.that flooded all the time and we spend ?1 million on a flood defence
:12:58. > :13:00.scheme and it is an area which has been broadly protected in this awful
:13:01. > :13:04.weather. So flood defence schemes work. If you think about the
:13:05. > :13:08.insurance claim is not being paid out because of that scheme, as an
:13:09. > :13:12.individual one, and the human misery not caused because the scheme has
:13:13. > :13:18.been built, it is worth every penny and it is the back. Actually, the
:13:19. > :13:24.scale of investment that we need to be thinking of is that much greater
:13:25. > :13:29.-- and it is paying back. Briefly, on insurance, what sort of situation
:13:30. > :13:36.are people in in terms of claiming for the widespread damage that has
:13:37. > :13:39.been done? Some people have had great response from their insurers,
:13:40. > :13:45.many others have had a poor response, a delayed response. And
:13:46. > :13:49.others, frankly people who often have no money whatsoever, they find
:13:50. > :13:53.themselves in a situation where they have chosen not to insure the
:13:54. > :13:56.property because they had no cash to start off with. For those people, I
:13:57. > :14:00.feel desperately sorry and we need to get alongside those people. There
:14:01. > :14:04.are people who will be out of their homes at Christmas and have nothing
:14:05. > :14:08.at all and no prospect of anything coming back in terms of insurance.
:14:09. > :14:15.This is a human catastrophe and we have to stand with those people.
:14:16. > :14:19.Tim, thank you very much. There were schemes that were cancelled, Andrea
:14:20. > :14:25.Jenkyns, under the Coalition Government, between 2010 and 2015.
:14:26. > :14:29.Was it a mistake? It's a difficult decision of any government to make.
:14:30. > :14:33.We were recovering from the worst recession in peace time, so where do
:14:34. > :14:39.you put the money? Whichever department it is, you cannot money
:14:40. > :14:44.-- magic money out of thin air. Whichever one you take it from, it
:14:45. > :14:48.leaves another one short. I am pleased we have this ?2.3 billion
:14:49. > :14:53.investment. My heart goes out to the community and its devastating
:14:54. > :14:58.families. It wasn't that long ago, 2009, there were similar. When you
:14:59. > :15:01.say you have to find the money or take it from another department,
:15:02. > :15:06.what Tim Farren is saying, is that you could prevent the spend that has
:15:07. > :15:10.to come to repair the damage. The government has a long-term economic
:15:11. > :15:13.plan and we see short-term measures that have long-term costs and
:15:14. > :15:17.consequences down the line. The flood prevention budget was cut by a
:15:18. > :15:22.third when the coalition took office in 2010.
:15:23. > :15:26.It was cut although the government argues it was up to local
:15:27. > :15:29.authorities to do some of the spending, but could they really are
:15:30. > :15:33.forced to deal with that sort of devastation we are seeing here? It
:15:34. > :15:40.was unprecedented, the amount of rain. The big thing is, we have ?2.3
:15:41. > :15:46.billion of investment. Over the course of Parliament. Last week,
:15:47. > :15:51.Darfur announced a cut to the flood prevention and coastal erosion
:15:52. > :15:55.budget. Is that short-sighted? The Environment Agency Chief Executive,
:15:56. > :16:02.out and said that they have adequate funding, now. Going forward, the
:16:03. > :16:05.chief executive, we are going in the right direction. My heart goes out
:16:06. > :16:09.to the people here who does not get help from that. We need to learn to
:16:10. > :16:14.be better next time. The Environment Agency said the flood defences put
:16:15. > :16:20.in place in 2010 they could survive a 1 in 100 year event, 2 years
:16:21. > :16:22.later, they are breached. Is Tim Farron right that Labour would have
:16:23. > :16:27.to pledge as much money because these things are happening all the
:16:28. > :16:31.time, they are not won in 100 year event is? What is genuinely
:16:32. > :16:34.long-term? Too often from Conservative ministers we see
:16:35. > :16:38.numbers in a column that are supposed to add up and they don't.
:16:39. > :16:44.Would Labour commit? If they went government, would you like to see
:16:45. > :16:47.them commit vast sums of money? Committed to protecting communities
:16:48. > :16:51.and make sure that flood prevention is save money is a sensible
:16:52. > :16:56.measure. The Environment Agency had a 20% staff lost since 2010. Right
:16:57. > :17:00.now, we are seeing the threat and closure of five fire stations in
:17:01. > :17:05.Cumbria alone, these are not sensible measures that protect
:17:06. > :17:10.communities long-term. What would you do different as the Labour
:17:11. > :17:16.Party? Team announced the review, ?2.4 billion, what specific measures
:17:17. > :17:19.protect communities long-term? If we are saying infrastructure needs to
:17:20. > :17:24.be put in place now, let's get on with it rather than, as we have had
:17:25. > :17:28.from this covenant, cuts to budget that have long-term consequences. We
:17:29. > :17:33.have had long-term investment which the Environment Agency said is good.
:17:34. > :17:38.They do not have the resources when faced with .net cuts. It is about
:17:39. > :17:41.how you spend it, which is what Tim Farron was saying, not just money.
:17:42. > :17:46.Insurance, that must be a nightmare for people. How are they getting
:17:47. > :17:52.insurance? Lots of viewers would ask how can you get insured if you live
:17:53. > :17:56.in a flood areas? I lived in Boston, Lincolnshire for five years. That
:17:57. > :17:58.was the same insurance, difficult in the Fens. Something has to be done.
:17:59. > :18:02.Should the government but the Fens. Something has to be done.
:18:03. > :18:06.on insurance companies to still give people a reasonable package of cover
:18:07. > :18:13.in areas where these sort of things will happen? We need to look into
:18:14. > :18:16.it. Better correspondence with those organisations. People need
:18:17. > :18:19.insurance, it is their lives, what they have built up. The government
:18:20. > :18:23.needs to focus on prevention and making sure insurance is available.
:18:24. > :18:27.Insurance companies need to pay up quicker. We had flooding in
:18:28. > :18:31.Southwark, businesses and residents found it difficult to get payments
:18:32. > :18:34.as quick as they needed to move on with their lives and keep their
:18:35. > :18:35.businesses open. We will leave it there.
:18:36. > :18:36.Extra uniformed and undercover police,
:18:37. > :18:39.backed by a growing number of armed officers, have been drafted in to
:18:40. > :18:41.protect London's transport network, after a suspected terrorist-related
:18:42. > :18:45.Let's talk now to our Security Correspondent, Frank Gardner who's
:18:46. > :18:58.Frank, do you think now lone wolf attacks, which this seems to be,
:18:59. > :19:03.seen as the most likely ongoing threat? How do the police prepare
:19:04. > :19:06.for it? I want to just pre-faced this by saying I will put some
:19:07. > :19:10.distance between what I am saying and the incident you referred to. I
:19:11. > :19:18.will talk in entirely generic terms. There is an ongoing threat.
:19:19. > :19:24.Because of the incredible volume of very slick propaganda videos coming
:19:25. > :19:26.out of Syria, out of Isis. Which is aimed at a vulnerable and
:19:27. > :19:32.impressionable people, who perhaps feel they are not part of society,
:19:33. > :19:38.no great loyalty to Britain. A lot of this propaganda is very effective
:19:39. > :19:42.at radicalising and turning people. And encouraging them to carry out
:19:43. > :19:46.attacks in countries like France, Belgium, Britain, etc. Basically,
:19:47. > :19:50.countries that are part of the correlation that are confronting
:19:51. > :19:56.so-called Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. -- part of the coalition. This
:19:57. > :20:00.has increased since the Paris attack. The air strikes are
:20:01. > :20:04.definitely hurting Isis. They are hemming them in, hurting their will
:20:05. > :20:09.supplies, their sources of revenue. Their way of hitting back is to
:20:10. > :20:13.encourage people to do so called... Lone Wolf, I don't like that
:20:14. > :20:17.expression, there is always some kind of connection. The police and
:20:18. > :20:23.the security services are most concerned about the people who they
:20:24. > :20:28.call SVEs spontaneous violent extremists. People who are
:20:29. > :20:29.call SVEs spontaneous violent of any network or plot, they don't
:20:30. > :20:35.necessarily need to have gone to Syria. But they have served a lot of
:20:36. > :20:40.violent extremist propaganda online and have decided to do something in
:20:41. > :20:43.response to it. The former First Minister of Scotland at the weekend,
:20:44. > :20:47.Alex Salmond, said none of the seven foiled plots by the security
:20:48. > :20:52.services was directed from Syria, he claims. Underlining your claim that
:20:53. > :20:58.actually, this is something connected to what is going on, but
:20:59. > :21:03.is home-grown. Yes. Just because it is not directed by them, there is no
:21:04. > :21:08.evidence that San Bernardino with the murder of 14 people in
:21:09. > :21:13.California, was directed by them. But the fact is, it is inspired by
:21:14. > :21:18.them and what is going on. People who carry these things out are doing
:21:19. > :21:23.it in the name of Isis. Even if Isis doesn't even know they are doing it.
:21:24. > :21:26.That is what is worrying. It gives the psychopathic violent, murderous
:21:27. > :21:35.people, with criminal intent and sometimes criminal background, some
:21:36. > :21:39.kind of cloak of a bigger, some sort of, bigger, higher aim. Actually,
:21:40. > :21:43.what they are doing is just murdering innocent people. Boris
:21:44. > :21:47.Johnson has entered the debate on the military side, the conflict
:21:48. > :21:50.aside, do we have to let the Russians back President Assad's
:21:51. > :21:54.boots on the ground to defeat Isil. In a way, is he not stating the
:21:55. > :22:01.obvious, the unspoken that Britain has two, to some extent, gone in on
:22:02. > :22:05.that side, in order to defeat Isis. I would disagree with that. There is
:22:06. > :22:10.very little fighting between Isis and the Assad regime. The President
:22:11. > :22:13.Assad regime have mostly for the non-ISIS rebels, which is why when
:22:14. > :22:18.Russia came in with their air strikes, look at the map of those
:22:19. > :22:22.air strikes. Almost all of them, the vast majority, over 80% of them,
:22:23. > :22:27.have been hitting the rebels, non-ISIS rebels, closest to Assad's
:22:28. > :22:31.forces. Identify the Russians want boots on the ground. They have
:22:32. > :22:36.probably in excess of 1000 people now, some special forces, but most
:22:37. > :22:42.of them force protection, to protect their warplanes and their bases,
:22:43. > :22:45.their camps. They don't want another Afghanistan type ground campaign and
:22:46. > :22:52.Britain does not want to get involved in that, if we can avoid
:22:53. > :22:56.it. Thank you. The yell from a passenger, has rather You Ain' tNo
:22:57. > :22:59.Muslim Bruv captured social media. -- has rather captured.
:23:00. > :23:06.The more people who recognise that, they have nothing to do with Islam,
:23:07. > :23:13.the better. It is something incredibly accurate. What about the
:23:14. > :23:16.police presence? There was a huge furore over claims that George
:23:17. > :23:20.Osborne was going to cut back on police numbers. He didn't, in the
:23:21. > :23:24.end, probably as a result of that pressure, are you happy with the
:23:25. > :23:28.police presence on the street? We need to say that the police are
:23:29. > :23:35.doing a great job. It is not easy for them. We need to commend them
:23:36. > :23:39.for their bravery. Are there enough police on the street? Crime has gone
:23:40. > :23:43.down. But with this threat? With this threat?
:23:44. > :23:53.I think it is a joined up... Approach that we need. It is all the
:23:54. > :23:59.services. I mean, I was... This threat has been going on a while. I
:24:00. > :24:05.was in Bali, ten years ago and I just missed the Harley bombs, by 20
:24:06. > :24:09.seconds by jumping into a taxi, that has left an impression on me, my
:24:10. > :24:15.parents and I almost got blown up -- Bali bombing. We have got to pull
:24:16. > :24:19.together. Cross-party. And defeat it. We are doing the right thing.
:24:20. > :24:25.The fact that the police were there within a few minutes and they
:24:26. > :24:30.captured him... In order to be cross-party, we need consensus. In
:24:31. > :24:34.Southwark, only 16% of knife crimes last year have been solved.
:24:35. > :24:37.Inexcusable to pretend that crime is a sensible or reasonable level. The
:24:38. > :24:44.police do not have the resorts is they need. We have lost 200 police
:24:45. > :24:48.and PC SOs since 2010. As usual, with the budget, we have had smoke
:24:49. > :24:50.and mirrors. Because of the amount of extra money going into
:24:51. > :24:56.counterterrorism, we will still lose all of the PCSOs in London who
:24:57. > :25:00.provide front-line intelligence. There is a target. We have aborted
:25:01. > :25:05.seven attempts in the last 12 months, the police are doing a
:25:06. > :25:08.fantastic job. That is also the security services. If you want to
:25:09. > :25:16.increase levels of police on the cheap network, you need the police
:25:17. > :25:18.to do it. -- on the tube. Are there community relations which are
:25:19. > :25:24.strained in your constituency? When I met with arms to talk about the
:25:25. > :25:30.rise of Islamophobia, they talked about the additional measures. To
:25:31. > :25:34.tackle the radicalisation. -- imams. Those relationships will be
:25:35. > :25:39.strained, the more we lose police in the borough. It prevents the passing
:25:40. > :25:45.on of information on individuals that imams have become concerned
:25:46. > :25:47.about. That is a real risk. There is already an arrest every other day in
:25:48. > :25:49.London at someone suspected... Watched a bishop contribute
:25:50. > :25:54.in the House of Lords recently? Maybe you even remember Archbishop
:25:55. > :25:56.Geoffrey Fisher crowning Queen My guests and myself were too
:25:57. > :26:06.young. But is it right that
:26:07. > :26:08.in modern Britain, Christianity A new report by the Commission
:26:09. > :26:12.on Religion and Belief in British Public Life is calling
:26:13. > :26:14.for significant changes in the role of Christianity
:26:15. > :26:18.in our multicultural society. The report contends that British
:26:19. > :26:20.institutions need to change to reflect a "general decline"
:26:21. > :26:24.in Christian affiliation. It says a "new settlement"
:26:25. > :26:27.is needed to reflect the fact that almost half the population doesn't
:26:28. > :26:33.identify with any religion. The Commission says faith schools
:26:34. > :26:35.are "socially divisive" and that selection of pupils based on
:26:36. > :26:42.their faith should be phased out. It calls for acts
:26:43. > :26:45.of faith worship in assemblies to be ended, and replaced with a
:26:46. > :26:50."time for reflection". And in the House of Lords,
:26:51. > :26:53.the number of Anglican bishops should be cut to make room
:26:54. > :26:55.for leaders of other faiths. Major national and civil events,
:26:56. > :26:58.such as the coronation of the monarch,
:26:59. > :27:00.should be reformed to give them more And the government should re-focus
:27:01. > :27:12.anti-terrorism legislation to promote freedom of speech,
:27:13. > :27:16.particularly on campuses. The National Secular Society has
:27:17. > :27:18.said the report is full of "handwringing,
:27:19. > :27:19.but no concrete solutions". But the Church of England says the
:27:20. > :27:22.Commission "misunderstands" the role of faith schools, and says most
:27:23. > :27:25.public opinion is opposed to the And the vicar and religious
:27:26. > :27:53.commentator, Giles Fraser is with us It gives us ace shot on where we
:27:54. > :27:59.are. Christianity down, other religions up -- eight snapshot.
:28:00. > :28:05.Secularism at. What do you do in that context? That is correct. That
:28:06. > :28:08.is exactly what is happening. How do you get your national institutions
:28:09. > :28:13.to reflect that reality? That is important. What it doesn't do is
:28:14. > :28:15.that it doesn't get the fact that religion is becoming not something
:28:16. > :28:19.about the great and the good any more. It is becoming something much
:28:20. > :28:25.more on the street, something much more fractured and diverse. That is
:28:26. > :28:28.why it is growing. Right. That is something that this commission
:28:29. > :28:36.doesn't really get to. It doesn't get too... It is still talking in
:28:37. > :28:39.terms of established religion, how you perform the various different
:28:40. > :28:43.institutions. At the same time, there is a sort of bottom up growth
:28:44. > :28:47.of religion, in a different way which is not being addressed. But
:28:48. > :28:54.not organised religion. Disorganised religion. Disorganised religion. If
:28:55. > :28:57.the report says and you agree, that Christianity is going down and other
:28:58. > :29:01.religions are going up, does that and should that necessarily
:29:02. > :29:10.correspond with the deep Christianisation of public life?
:29:11. > :29:14.De-Christianisation. One has to be specific. Bishops in the House of
:29:15. > :29:18.Lords, my personal view is that I completely agree. You would say yes.
:29:19. > :29:22.I would get rid of bishops in the House of Lords. Their role is widely
:29:23. > :29:29.seen as not having a sort of mandate. From religious communities.
:29:30. > :29:32.What about having Christian assemblies and singing hymns in
:29:33. > :29:38.schools, should that stay or go? Here is the problem. The problem
:29:39. > :29:42.with it becoming a moment of reflection, it becomes so
:29:43. > :29:45.generalised that it ends up having no contact whatsoever. It becomes
:29:46. > :29:54.even more boring than it can be already. It is too sanitised. It
:29:55. > :29:58.becomes a sort of mushy spiritualism where there isn't really any
:29:59. > :30:06.content, that is my problem. I would prefer to have lots of different
:30:07. > :30:11.forms of contribution. But not a sort of Esperanto of religion, which
:30:12. > :30:16.is rather dull. You would like to see a plurality of representation,
:30:17. > :30:18.religion, but still religious as opposed to nonreligious? As you
:30:19. > :30:22.argued, many people are not religious at all. I take your point
:30:23. > :30:26.about it being ground roots, although I am not sure in what form
:30:27. > :30:29.that takes. Does this report is not reflect the vast numbers of people
:30:30. > :30:37.who just don't think religion, in any sense, is important? It is
:30:38. > :30:41.important, but not in the way the report describes it. Most of the
:30:42. > :30:44.news items we have at the moment are the affect of religion and
:30:45. > :30:50.religiosity on the world and politics. And that is essential,
:30:51. > :30:54.that we up our religious literacy. It's pretty low in this country and
:30:55. > :31:01.it's part of the reason we don't understand the world. If you look at
:31:02. > :31:04.places, towns in this country that have high religious literacy they
:31:05. > :31:07.often have good relationships between different faith communities.
:31:08. > :31:13.Leicester is a really good example. Places like that are good. Do you
:31:14. > :31:18.think the UK should still be thought of as a Christian country? When
:31:19. > :31:26.people claim that... That is the bases, the history, the attrition --
:31:27. > :31:30.tradition. It claimed to be a Protestant country to keep the
:31:31. > :31:34.Catholics out from France, and so forth, and when people say it, I get
:31:35. > :31:37.nervous. I think they are trying to usher in something. When the far
:31:38. > :31:42.right say they are a Christian country, they mean they are not a
:31:43. > :31:47.Muslim country. When people say not in my name, I agree with that. Would
:31:48. > :31:53.you say it is still a Christian country? In the main, I would. Giles
:31:54. > :32:01.is one of the vicars who read my bands at my wedding. Would you,
:32:02. > :32:05.Andrea? I think there is the other element. Why is religion important?
:32:06. > :32:09.Surely it is about finding your place in the world and the
:32:10. > :32:15.community, and white are we looking for differences rather than
:32:16. > :32:20.commonalities -- why are we? What about in schools? Faith schools are
:32:21. > :32:23.divisive. People laud the fact that they get good results but you're
:32:24. > :32:27.going in on the basis of your religion. In Northern Ireland they
:32:28. > :32:31.have been trying to move away, unsuccessfully, in some instances
:32:32. > :32:36.from segregation on religious lines. Are they a good thing? Yes, and for
:32:37. > :32:41.this reason. We are different and we believe in different sorts of
:32:42. > :32:44.things. The idea that we impose a similarity and command and control
:32:45. > :32:48.of ethics and religion from the top is ridiculous. We need to have that
:32:49. > :32:54.diversity in the education system. Tony Blair was a huge fan of the
:32:55. > :32:58.faith school system and it really started under him, but if successive
:32:59. > :33:03.governments are trying to have an egalitarian school system, is it
:33:04. > :33:10.desirable? The scrutineers what they are teaching and how the students
:33:11. > :33:13.come out. But bishops are less than 3% of the members of the House of
:33:14. > :33:17.Lords and we should look at involving other religions in the
:33:18. > :33:24.House of Lords rather than the hereditary peers. I think it's bad
:33:25. > :33:27.religion. You think it is bad for the state, but I think it's bad her
:33:28. > :33:33.religion for us up to the establishment. I think it takes off
:33:34. > :33:37.the edge for us to be more concerned with dressing up and speaking out.
:33:38. > :33:41.That is the problem with bishops in the House of Lords. The Church of
:33:42. > :33:46.England says if the law on collective worship were repealed,
:33:47. > :33:53.schools would risk losing a reflection of the full breadth of
:33:54. > :33:56.human experience. Are they right? It is a nonsense of particular brand of
:33:57. > :34:02.Christianity to be imposed on people. No one obeys the law. That
:34:03. > :34:08.is clearly a nonsense that has to be changed. I prefer to see it go and
:34:09. > :34:13.it become a mushy spiritualism. What about religious studies as a subject
:34:14. > :34:19.at school? It has been compulsory up to GCSE level. Should it stay? I
:34:20. > :34:23.would be happy for it to be opened up for the study of non-religions
:34:24. > :34:28.and atheists and secularists. So many people are put off religion at
:34:29. > :34:31.school. I would like there to be a living playing field and people be
:34:32. > :34:39.put off atheism as well. -- level playing field. You are going to the
:34:40. > :34:42.lowest common denominator then. The report also wants more nonreligious
:34:43. > :34:47.slots on thought for the day on Radio 4. Does that make sense? My
:34:48. > :34:53.problem is this. It does seem a bit like getting people who want to say
:34:54. > :34:56.they hate football going on match of the day. It is a religious slot and
:34:57. > :35:02.I think it should stay that way. But the sum onto, and rubbish religion
:35:03. > :35:05.-- for someone to come on to rubbish religion would be nonsense on songs
:35:06. > :35:10.of praise, and also one Thought Of The Day. What about more separation
:35:11. > :35:16.between church and state? Are there other ways you would like to see it
:35:17. > :35:20.happen on the basis of this report? You have the choice of swearing in
:35:21. > :35:26.when you enter Parliament. Should you keep all of that? I would,
:35:27. > :35:29.personally. No one tells you you have to turn around during prayers,
:35:30. > :35:36.that was a surprise. It is to protect those behind. You turn
:35:37. > :35:39.around and face the back of the benches. Nobody tells you before
:35:40. > :35:45.this first time in the chamber. There are some strange customs. Are
:35:46. > :35:49.you offended by them in any way? I haven't met anyone offended by it.
:35:50. > :35:53.You have a choice not to be there if you are offended by that practice.
:35:54. > :35:57.The truth is the disestablishment is coming in the future of the country
:35:58. > :36:00.and nobody will give at the Parliamentary time it requires. The
:36:01. > :36:02.MPs have more interesting and important things to do, but it will
:36:03. > :36:04.come. Giles Fraser, thank you. Now let's take a look at what's
:36:05. > :36:07.in store for us this week. David Cameron is today announcing a
:36:08. > :36:10.major expansion of the government's shared-ownership scheme, which he
:36:11. > :36:12.says will allow nearly 200,000 The European Council President,
:36:13. > :36:18.Donald Tusk, is writing to EU leaders today to set out his
:36:19. > :36:22.position on Britain's renegotiation. He'll say that plans to strip EU
:36:23. > :36:25.migrants of their benefits could be On Wednesday, Jeremy Corbyn will
:36:26. > :36:30.face David Cameron for The decision on whether to build
:36:31. > :36:42.a third runway at Heathrow airport A cabinet committee formed to help
:36:43. > :36:46.make the decision is due to meet And Jeremy Corbyn says he will
:36:47. > :36:49.attend a fundraising dinner on Friday, organised
:36:50. > :36:51.by the Stop the War Coalition. This is despite some of his own MPs
:36:52. > :36:55.calling on him not to attend. Let's talk now to Isabel Hardman
:36:56. > :37:10.from the Spectator and Rafael Behr Welcome. Are we going to get this
:37:11. > :37:14.decision on Heath Row, or the direction of travel? First week
:37:15. > :37:18.heard it would be delayed until next year but now we are told it will
:37:19. > :37:21.happen before the end of the year. The official spokeswoman for the
:37:22. > :37:24.Prime Minister said today we would get the clear direction by the end
:37:25. > :37:28.of the year which sounds to me a little different to a clear
:37:29. > :37:33.decision, but she did say we should not get too worried about semantics.
:37:34. > :37:36.It may be that some sort of holding statement is issued. But we are
:37:37. > :37:40.assured that there are meetings taking place over the next week that
:37:41. > :37:45.means we will get a direction, whatever it means. It's going to be
:37:46. > :37:49.difficult because the cabinet is split, and certainly the reports of
:37:50. > :37:53.the delay would be centred around problems of pollution and air
:37:54. > :37:56.quality. It's all a bit embarrassing, really. You remember
:37:57. > :38:01.the Chancellor's Autumn Statement the other week and he said that we
:38:02. > :38:05.are the builders. Such an important part of the agenda on paper that
:38:06. > :38:08.they get off with infrastructure and are retooling the country, but we
:38:09. > :38:12.have known for a decade that Britain, in theory, needs new
:38:13. > :38:18.airport capacity and as soon as possible and the reality is that
:38:19. > :38:23.there find political reasons why it's difficult to put it at Heathrow
:38:24. > :38:26.Airport because our MPs near Heathrow Airport and then wanted
:38:27. > :38:30.because their constituency don't want the noise of the overflights.
:38:31. > :38:33.And one of those MPs wants to be the Mayor of London, Zac Goldsmith, so
:38:34. > :38:38.it's hard to disentangle what is a practical and abroad strategic
:38:39. > :38:42.reason to put it at Heathrow Airport or Gatwick, and what is just sort of
:38:43. > :38:46.tactical calculations to avoid a split in the Conservative Party.
:38:47. > :38:50.That is just a bad look for the government when they're trying to
:38:51. > :38:53.suggest they have broader strategic infrastructure. We look forward to
:38:54. > :39:00.hearing what the direction of travel is. It sounds like a fudge term.
:39:01. > :39:04.Let's turn to the EU renegotiation, talking of potential fudging and
:39:05. > :39:08.Donald Task and the letter going out to member states. The sticking point
:39:09. > :39:13.is the same, that the one that could bring support the Prime Minister is
:39:14. > :39:18.this moratorium on in work benefits. It is problematic to say the least.
:39:19. > :39:22.This is why he has let the timetable slip. He had originally said that he
:39:23. > :39:27.would hope to present his plan and agree it with EU leaders at the EU
:39:28. > :39:30.Council summit in December but admitted last week that he cannot do
:39:31. > :39:35.this and he will be looking at the February meeting to do it. As
:39:36. > :39:38.Raphael says, the government keeps saying it is a government that
:39:39. > :39:43.delivers, not just on infrastructure but also on renegotiation. At the
:39:44. > :39:47.moment, you can see the Eurosceptics rubbing their hands with glee at
:39:48. > :39:49.this being a government that does not seem to deliver on the
:39:50. > :39:54.renegotiation as well as airport decisions. How will he be able to
:39:55. > :40:00.dress up the renegotiation on the basis of the broad areas he wants a
:40:01. > :40:02.deal on when Eurosceptics will say that there is no substance and he
:40:03. > :40:08.hasn't achieved anything substantial? Some of them are almost
:40:09. > :40:13.in the bag. There is the big symbolic point about exempting
:40:14. > :40:16.Britain from closer union, which makes it sound like some great
:40:17. > :40:20.federalising project. The signals we are getting from other continental
:40:21. > :40:24.leaders is you can probably find a way around it. It does come down to
:40:25. > :40:27.the specific point about migrant access to benefits, and the
:40:28. > :40:32.technical problem with that is that you probably have to go to the
:40:33. > :40:35.Lisbon Treaty and that can't be changed because it's about the fair
:40:36. > :40:39.treatment of workers across the European Union. People have other
:40:40. > :40:43.things to deal with on the continent, the migrant crisis,
:40:44. > :40:46.Syria, and it's not on anyone's agenda to have a treaty
:40:47. > :40:50.renegotiation, and if you do have that, other country leaders and
:40:51. > :40:55.other populations will say, if we are all putting in the bid to change
:40:56. > :40:58.the way the EU works, we have a few grievances of our own. What the
:40:59. > :41:02.Prime Minister has to do is somehow turn around and say, I got a deal
:41:03. > :41:05.and it's brilliant, now let's move on and discuss the wider issue of
:41:06. > :41:12.whether Britain should be a member of the EU and that is a tricky bit
:41:13. > :41:17.of footwork to exercise. Let's talk about Jeremy Corbyn attending a Stop
:41:18. > :41:23.the War meeting despite advice not to do so. -- to do so. There does
:41:24. > :41:29.seem to be a rift that is not going to go away within the Labour Party
:41:30. > :41:32.any time soon. Both sides are becoming steadily more defiant, so
:41:33. > :41:36.if Jeremy Corbyn were feeling weak, he might have decided he had a hot
:41:37. > :41:40.date with his allotment that meant he could not have attended but he
:41:41. > :41:47.says he will keep going. His critics have been very outspoken on the
:41:48. > :41:51.airway, that they have been encouraging the abuse of MPs on
:41:52. > :41:54.social media. They wrote an ill-advised post about the origins
:41:55. > :41:56.of Islamic State which suggested that their worldview is not
:41:57. > :42:01.necessarily something the Labour leader would want to align himself
:42:02. > :42:05.with, but he is happy to. There is the broader point about the Labour
:42:06. > :42:09.moderates, as they see themselves, what they want clarity, is whether
:42:10. > :42:13.or not Jeremy Corbyn is happy for people who simply aren't in the
:42:14. > :42:18.Labour Party to become part of the party by osmosis. There is party
:42:19. > :42:22.differences. Obviously there will be some that don't have use MPs like,
:42:23. > :42:25.but they want the sense Jeremy Corbyn that he is the leader of the
:42:26. > :42:31.Labour Party and there is a boundary Way you support Labour MPs and
:42:32. > :42:36.around the campaign there are other hard left parties, the Socialist
:42:37. > :42:40.workers party, and Liberty, who have traditionally not been the Labour
:42:41. > :42:44.Party. If Jeremy Corbyn is happy for them to dictate terms to Labour MPs
:42:45. > :42:48.as part of an extra Parliamentary whipping operation on the hard left,
:42:49. > :42:51.that's a big change in the structure of the Labour Party and the
:42:52. > :42:54.moderates want clarity on whether that is part of the Jeremy Corbyn
:42:55. > :43:00.agenda. On the point about showing strength here by not going for the
:43:01. > :43:06.date with the allotment, is that what it is? Does Jeremy Corbyn feel
:43:07. > :43:10.stronger to do that? Certainly. The old by-election at the end of last
:43:11. > :43:14.week where expectations were low and I joined in those low expectations,
:43:15. > :43:17.the fact that the Labour Party managed to hold a seat quite
:43:18. > :43:20.uncomfortably and a lot of people turned out, there is a feeling that
:43:21. > :43:25.punctuated the end of a difficult week and few weeks for the Labour
:43:26. > :43:29.leader and now they can say, OK, we have proved that people will still
:43:30. > :43:33.turn out for us and now other MPs who don't like Jeremy Corbyn, get
:43:34. > :43:36.back in your box and let's make it work. That's the mood around the
:43:37. > :43:41.operation of the moment. He is disinclined to yield to that
:43:42. > :43:42.pressure right now. Thank you to both of you. Have a good week.
:43:43. > :43:45.Well, let's talk a little more about Jeremy Corbyn and Stop the War
:43:46. > :43:49.Joining us now from Momentum, the campaign group closely associated
:43:50. > :43:59.Before I come to you, should Jeremy Corbyn step back from his
:44:00. > :44:03.involvement with stop the war? We should not be snobbish about
:44:04. > :44:10.allotments. But given some of the misguided statements about Paris
:44:11. > :44:12.reaping the whirlwind and the disruption outside the Labour Party
:44:13. > :44:17.office while we were trying to campaign to win the by-election.
:44:18. > :44:20.There are concerns there. It is not my place as a backbench Labour MP to
:44:21. > :44:25.dictate to the leader what he chooses to do. Some MPs have been
:44:26. > :44:29.saying to Jeremy Corbyn that he should not be involved with the
:44:30. > :44:33.organisation that says things that you outline. Everyone has to make
:44:34. > :44:37.those choices. Jeremy's strategy seems to be the same as Ed Miliband,
:44:38. > :44:42.reach out to the left, rather than the centre. It means engaging with
:44:43. > :44:46.Stop The War more than the business community and I'm nervous that we
:44:47. > :44:49.end up in the same position in Twenty20, which would be deeply
:44:50. > :44:56.unfortunate for my constituents who need a Labour government. Listening
:44:57. > :44:59.to both Neil Coyle, this is an organisation that is not the Labour
:45:00. > :45:00.Party, so should the Labour leader B is closely involved with something
:45:01. > :45:11.like Stop The War? I have come on here to speak about
:45:12. > :45:16.Momentum first of all. We will come onto that. It is an interesting
:45:17. > :45:20.discussion, Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband should have reached out to
:45:21. > :45:25.the business community, rather than grassroots organisations. The idea
:45:26. > :45:31.that reaching out to the hard left and that whole terminology... He
:45:32. > :45:36.said to the left, not hard left. It is to the people. Over the summer it
:45:37. > :45:39.was mass mobilisation of people who felt disenchanted with the
:45:40. > :45:43.increasingly unequal society. Increasing levels of homelessness,
:45:44. > :45:47.poverty. A lot of the values in our society, young people in particular
:45:48. > :45:52.feeling they are not tapping into what represents them. There is a new
:45:53. > :45:54.mood. To present this in a dichotomous way is a
:45:55. > :45:58.misrepresentation. Perhaps it is being presented that way because MPs
:45:59. > :46:07.like Neil Coyle have come in for quite a lot of abuse and
:46:08. > :46:10.intimidation. Talk us through what happened last week to you. Before
:46:11. > :46:13.the vote on Syria there was abuse and threats that came through. I
:46:14. > :46:20.don't hold Jeromy or Momentum momentum responsible -- Jeremy.
:46:21. > :46:24.107,000 people e-mailed the Labour Party. Less than 1% of those e-mails
:46:25. > :46:28.were read. Encouraging that tell your MP what to do atmosphere I
:46:29. > :46:32.ended up with people who felt they could dictate to me what I should do
:46:33. > :46:37.in Parliament. I have 107,000 constituents, less than 1000
:46:38. > :46:43.supporting against the war. Some people felt they could tell me what
:46:44. > :46:47.to do. Amongst those people, some threatened to stab, others
:46:48. > :46:50.threatened to slap me. Because of my brilliant constituency, more people
:46:51. > :46:54.offered to buy me a drink and I have had people who have offered security
:46:55. > :46:59.on a voluntary basis. Is that the role of the people you have talked
:47:00. > :47:02.about? To do that to MPs, put them under pressure in that way because
:47:03. > :47:08.they don't agree on this issue over Syria? Absolutely not, I was
:47:09. > :47:12.completely condemn abuse on the internet, trolling is horrible and I
:47:13. > :47:17.am sorry you had to experience that. Taking the lead from Jeremy Corbyn
:47:18. > :47:19.of making it about substance, politics, not about personalities
:47:20. > :47:25.and not being personal ad attacking people, I would not condone that at
:47:26. > :47:29.all. But, do you think that if Labour MPs are not representing the
:47:30. > :47:34.views of their constituents or members of Momentum, this grassroots
:47:35. > :47:38.organisation that is closely aligned on the left wing, if you like, of
:47:39. > :47:41.the Labour Party, do you think there should be pressure for those MPs to
:47:42. > :47:45.go and have people that better reflects the views of people in
:47:46. > :47:50.Momentum? To answer your question about Momentum's role in providing
:47:51. > :47:53.that, did someone think that providing a tool to say if you want
:47:54. > :47:58.your voice heard on an issue which really matters, where people will
:47:59. > :48:03.die as consequences of air strikes, to say if you feel strongly about
:48:04. > :48:08.this issue, you can lobby this MP, your MP respectfully. Using a tool
:48:09. > :48:14.provided by Momentum and you should explicitly keep it... It hasn't been
:48:15. > :48:17.all respectful. A lot of it has, but not all of it. Of course. Internet
:48:18. > :48:25.trolling is something that predates Momentum. It exists across all sorts
:48:26. > :48:28.of society and the misogyny associated is unpleasant. Let's talk
:48:29. > :48:33.about this deselection and reselection. Do you think MPs like
:48:34. > :48:39.Neal who don't agree with you should be deselected as somebody else
:48:40. > :48:44.reselected? -- Neil. That is not our responsibility. Lots of people have
:48:45. > :48:48.said that Momentum would not campaign for deselection but it does
:48:49. > :48:51.not try with the report about a Momentum event which was attended by
:48:52. > :48:55.John McDonald, the Shadow Chancellor. The Lambeth branch
:48:56. > :49:02.launch in Chuka Umunna's constituency. The leaflet given at
:49:03. > :49:06.entry said Socialist party, formerly militant. We call for a vote of no
:49:07. > :49:09.confidence in Chuka Umunna. Mandatory reselection is only a
:49:10. > :49:13.challenge to those who refuse to carry out the wishes of the people.
:49:14. > :49:18.Momentum Does support reselection and deselection of candidates.
:49:19. > :49:22.Absolutely. I was not at the event on Thursday. This was from
:49:23. > :49:27.conservative home, Mark Wallace. He is a conservative. He was there
:49:28. > :49:30.clearly. Do you deny those leaflets were being handed out? I was not at
:49:31. > :49:33.the event on Thursday but my understanding from speaking to
:49:34. > :49:40.people who were, is that it was an event hosted by Momentum. Lambeth.
:49:41. > :49:45.Some Socialist party people turned up. They were not invited.
:49:46. > :49:50.Momentum's goal is for Labour to win the election in 2020 and build the
:49:51. > :49:53.Labour Party and engage with grass roots. If a small section of people
:49:54. > :49:58.came in, which I believed it happened... They were handing out
:49:59. > :50:02.leaflets at the door. Are you saying it was hijacked? That is my
:50:03. > :50:07.understanding. Do you condemn those leaflets and what they are saying
:50:08. > :50:12.about entry into the Labour Party? It is not the place for non-Labour
:50:13. > :50:15.Party members to campaign on the selection or deselection of
:50:16. > :50:20.candidates. If those Socialist party people... What will Momentum do to
:50:21. > :50:24.prevent other non-Labour Party taking over your event in future?
:50:25. > :50:27.This is one example, but they are doing it all over the country. I
:50:28. > :50:31.have been to many Momentum meetings and there is by and large a positive
:50:32. > :50:33.and inclusive atmosphere where people are doing politics
:50:34. > :50:37.differently. We have groups where someone is beating at the front
:50:38. > :50:42.often and there is facilitation into small groups -- is speaking. It is
:50:43. > :50:46.generally positive and inclusive. New Labour Party members often,
:50:47. > :50:50.people who were previously disengaged or people of the Labour
:50:51. > :50:56.Party. Answer the question, what is the aim? Walthamstow Labour
:50:57. > :51:00.councillor. Stella Creasy Labour MP. She reports about intimidation to
:51:01. > :51:03.her office staff. If Labour councillor suggested any MP who
:51:04. > :51:08.supported the killing of innocents in this way should automatically go
:51:09. > :51:12.through a ballot for reselection, is that councillor Ron? That is not
:51:13. > :51:17.Momentum's position. We understand that, we have had Momentum on
:51:18. > :51:21.before. But what are you doing to try to de-escalates what seems to be
:51:22. > :51:29.happening at the behest of momentum Momentum Momentum events. It is a
:51:30. > :51:34.tiny minority of what is going on, if you go to those events. Going
:51:35. > :51:38.forward, there will be... Momentum Is a new organisation. It has come
:51:39. > :51:42.out suddenly off the back of a campaign which mobilised a lot of
:51:43. > :51:47.people. It is taking a while to build up that organisation. There
:51:48. > :51:49.will be a clear statement about attendance of meetings and events
:51:50. > :51:56.that are open to the public, open to everyone. These may be teething
:51:57. > :52:02.problems. It may be a case, Tom Watson said Momentum were a bit of a
:52:03. > :52:04.rabble, I will ask you if that is there or not. This is an
:52:05. > :52:08.organisation who wants to make the most of the new members, new young
:52:09. > :52:14.people engaged in politics. Which standard politics hasn't done. When
:52:15. > :52:19.Jeremy won, I was hopeful that a lot of the momentum created by Momentum
:52:20. > :52:22.would be carried forward and they would be genuine debate and
:52:23. > :52:26.discussion. Unity in purpose. At the moment, that is not what we are
:52:27. > :52:32.seeing. Labour councillors, not just MPs, the local level, Jeremy Corbyn
:52:33. > :52:34.at local level is Labour councillors. They are being told
:52:35. > :52:39.they need to set budgets for Momentum in Lewisham. Momentum Need
:52:40. > :52:43.to do more to tackle those who pretend to represent Jeremy Corbyn
:52:44. > :52:48.when they are actually another political party. You looked
:52:49. > :52:52.surprised, are you surprised? I am not sure about that particular
:52:53. > :52:57.incident. You are not aware of what Momentum are doing at local level? I
:52:58. > :53:00.don't believe it was Momentum. It was widely reported, you do not seem
:53:01. > :53:05.to know what is happening within Momentum, that is worrying.
:53:06. > :53:08.Everything seems to be reported as Momentum and we are about mass
:53:09. > :53:11.mobilisation, popular power. Would you accept you have not got control
:53:12. > :53:19.of what is going on in your name? Not my name. No, Momentum. It is
:53:20. > :53:24.growing as an organisation. We have set in place structures which will
:53:25. > :53:29.ensure... You need to get on with it. This point about popular power
:53:30. > :53:32.is interesting. Labour councillors are elected by the general public.
:53:33. > :53:37.Labour MPs are selected and elected, it is not Momentum's place to say
:53:38. > :53:42.that we are the representative of people, that is not who you are.
:53:43. > :53:46.Momentum Is enabling people to come together and campaign on issues
:53:47. > :53:49.which affect them. And also to aim towards building a more
:53:50. > :53:51.compassionate, just and equal society which doesn't involve
:53:52. > :53:55.trolling people, bullying people. society which doesn't involve
:53:56. > :53:56.is more inclusive and representative. We will leave it
:53:57. > :53:58.there on that positive note. Now this may be news to you,
:53:59. > :54:01.but abuse and intimidation in In fact, before a West Yorkshire
:54:02. > :54:06.by-election in 1872, people couldn't vote in secret, and this meant they
:54:07. > :54:09.were often pressured to back And one
:54:10. > :54:12.of the original ballot boxes used in that by-election is on display
:54:13. > :54:21.in Pontefract, as Ros Ball reports. The historic market town
:54:22. > :54:23.of Pontefract in West Yorkshire, famous for its old castle,
:54:24. > :54:28.the site of many sieges during the 17th century English
:54:29. > :54:32.Civil War and where King Richard II And, of course, Pontefract
:54:33. > :54:41.cakes made from licorice. But this town's 1872 by-election
:54:42. > :54:49.also deserves a place in history. to vote, could do so in a private
:54:50. > :54:54.booth, much like we do today. Before the introduction,
:54:55. > :54:56.the Ballot Act, that year, Either by a show of hands,
:54:57. > :55:01.by making your choice out loud or This left the electorate wide
:55:02. > :55:09.open to bribery and intimidation. At Pontefract Museum, they have the
:55:10. > :55:18.real star of that 1872 by-election. This is one of the five original
:55:19. > :55:21.boxes from the by-election. We have two in the museum service,
:55:22. > :55:25.here. This one on display in the
:55:26. > :55:28.Pontefract Museum is somewhat taller On the top you can see the red wax
:55:29. > :55:39.seals, which were used to prove using the stamps used to make
:55:40. > :55:55.Pontefract cakes. I understand you want me to cast
:55:56. > :55:57.a vote? We have a small ballot paper here
:55:58. > :56:01.to find out who your favourite In case you were wondering,
:56:02. > :56:05.Liberal MP Hugh Childers Hmmm...
:56:06. > :56:17.Which candidate? The BBC's own self-styled
:56:18. > :56:20.Paisley interrogator? Or the smooth, daytime velvet
:56:21. > :56:24.glove that hides an iron fist? Sorry, this is a private booth,
:56:25. > :56:43.check your 1872 Ballot Act! I would have said there was no
:56:44. > :56:47.contest, who would you have chosen in the secret poll? Whoever lets me
:56:48. > :56:51.keep this mark. That is a good answer, you have been thinking about
:56:52. > :56:56.that. Voter registration, are you worried? Not enough people will be
:56:57. > :57:00.signed up for voter registration? I am not, personally. I know the
:57:01. > :57:04.government had the campaign in the lead up to the 20 15th election.
:57:05. > :57:11.There are more people registered. With the new registration, 96% have
:57:12. > :57:17.been registered. The other 4% will be called nine times. There are
:57:18. > :57:21.measures in place. There is a lot more money going into local
:57:22. > :57:25.government. Are you reassured? I am not sure there is more money going
:57:26. > :57:29.to local government but Southwark Council have done a lot to make sure
:57:30. > :57:32.people are still on the ballot. We have 17,000 students and young
:57:33. > :57:36.professionals moving in and out of the constituency, that is the big
:57:37. > :57:38.risk. For the government to write off 1 million people off the ballot
:57:39. > :57:46.paper just before the boundary review is very political. It is
:57:47. > :57:51.propaganda. Briefly. We want complete transparency. If people can
:57:52. > :57:55.move home and sort out... Why not have automatic registration? If
:57:56. > :58:00.people can sort out their gasp, electric bill and council tax, it is
:58:01. > :58:02.easy online, it is simple. Let's go to the quiz.
:58:03. > :58:05.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:06. > :58:07.The question was, who does our guest of the day
:58:08. > :58:10.Is it a) Margaret Thatcher? b) Enya?
:58:11. > :58:13.c) Christine Lagarde? or d) Current Miss World, Rolene Strauss?
:58:14. > :58:15.The answer is: b) Enya.
:58:16. > :58:18.Andrea is a singer and songwriter and has compared herself to Enya
:58:19. > :58:29.# There is only one choice # We must unite
:58:30. > :58:36.# As one voice # We shall gain #
:58:37. > :58:42.Have you ever had a number one? I haven't. I am releasing a song for
:58:43. > :58:44.the Royal British Legion next year. You are still singing at least. For
:58:45. > :58:45.charity, anyway. I won't ask you to sing, but I will
:58:46. > :58:50.not ask. I'll be here
:58:51. > :58:55.at noon tomorrow with all the big