:00:36. > :00:38.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.David Cameron says that too few Muslim women living in Britain speak
:00:42. > :00:46.Is their isolation fuelling extremism?
:00:47. > :00:48.After a difficult few weeks for the Labour leader,
:00:49. > :00:51.Jeremy Corbyn sets out his policy stall, but will voters like the look
:00:52. > :01:03.There are four well known Eurosceptics in the Cabinet,
:01:04. > :01:06.but will any of them campaign for an British exit
:01:07. > :01:16.Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown
:01:17. > :01:18.of Muslims entering the United States.
:01:19. > :01:21.After that statement last month and 500,000 signatures to an online
:01:22. > :01:28.petition, MPs debate whether to ban Donald trump from the UK.
:01:29. > :01:31.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole
:01:32. > :01:34.of the programme today are the Conservative MP and former
:01:35. > :01:36.Deputy Mayor of London, Kit Malthouse and the Labour MP
:01:37. > :01:44.The Prime Minister says that too few Muslim women living in the UK speak
:01:45. > :01:46.good English and that this is fuelling social isolation
:01:47. > :01:53.He has announced ?20 million to fund English lessons and said that anyone
:01:54. > :01:56.on a spousal visa who fails to master the language could be
:01:57. > :02:04.It is essential that it does work because we want to build a more
:02:05. > :02:05.integrated, cohesive, one nation society where everyone
:02:06. > :02:10.You can't have a country of opportunity if some people can't
:02:11. > :02:13.speak the language and in many cases, it's no fault of their own.
:02:14. > :02:16.It's because they've been put into a situation where they have
:02:17. > :02:19.been encouraged not to integrate and not to go out and not to learn
:02:20. > :02:21.the language and that's not good enough.
:02:22. > :02:24.That needs to change in our country and these proposals will make sure
:02:25. > :02:31.We're joined now from Birmingham by Zymbeida Limbada
:02:32. > :02:36.of the anti-extremism charity, Connect Justice.
:02:37. > :02:42.Welcome to the Daily Politics. What do you think of David Cameron's
:02:43. > :02:46.suggestion that there is or could be a link between low levels of English
:02:47. > :02:51.amongst some Muslim women and the potential for extremism? There is
:02:52. > :02:56.absolutely no evidence to suggest that for example if you look at the
:02:57. > :03:01.700 cases of people who have gone to fight in Syria to join Isis that if
:03:02. > :03:05.their mothers had actually spoken English, this would have stopped
:03:06. > :03:09.them from going into Syria. So the evidence is very poor in this
:03:10. > :03:14.particular case. If it is a security issue, the lack of evidence is very
:03:15. > :03:18.different from something that I see framed within the context of
:03:19. > :03:21.equalities. Social mobility and integration, those are two very
:03:22. > :03:25.different matters and it is important that the Prime Minister
:03:26. > :03:30.does not conflict two very separate issues. So when he says that if you
:03:31. > :03:35.don't speak English, I mean, this is what I put to you initially, but in
:03:36. > :03:38.a slightly different angle, you could be more susceptible to the
:03:39. > :03:42.extremists message that comes from Daesh. Do you think that a sense of
:03:43. > :03:46.isolation, if you don't speak English could make some people
:03:47. > :03:54.susceptible to a radical message coming from outside the UK? The fact
:03:55. > :03:59.that you don't speak a particular language and within if you look at
:04:00. > :04:03.for example Chinese communities, Polish communities, it means that
:04:04. > :04:07.everyone is susceptible. That women for example, that we engage with
:04:08. > :04:11.from the Muslims communities, one of their concerns, when it comes to
:04:12. > :04:14.practical measures when it comes to conversing with their children is
:04:15. > :04:18.around the fact that they don't understand the internet. They don't
:04:19. > :04:22.understand social media and that's something that concerns them on the
:04:23. > :04:26.extremism aspect. There is a different matter when it comes to
:04:27. > :04:30.learning, being engaged in the economy, getting jobs, and being
:04:31. > :04:34.part of society. It is what David Cameron says about British values.
:04:35. > :04:39.Two different matters. What about the issue of identity though? Does
:04:40. > :04:43.that in anyway sort of transcend towards messages of extremism and
:04:44. > :04:47.radicalisation for the very reasons you've said? If you are not having
:04:48. > :04:51.any other engagement beyond the home or beyond the mosque and you don't
:04:52. > :04:57.have access to the internet, in that sense, could you be radicalised in
:04:58. > :05:02.any way? I mean, there is no end to, it could be this, or it could be
:05:03. > :05:05.that. If you start to target a particular segment of the community
:05:06. > :05:11.and then if you look at gender within that community and a few
:05:12. > :05:15.saying that they are disempowered, by adding punitive measures and
:05:16. > :05:20.adding in the lens of security, surely that makes them slightly more
:05:21. > :05:24.susceptible to not listening to the message that the Prime Minister is
:05:25. > :05:31.trying to give. Actually t could have the opposite effect. It is more
:05:32. > :05:33.likely to radicalise by taking this language and these measures.
:05:34. > :05:39.likely to radicalise by taking this agree the foundation of integration
:05:40. > :05:43.is language acquisition, it sits at the base of every coherent society
:05:44. > :05:47.that we have a common language that everybody can participate in and can
:05:48. > :05:52.absorb through the various routes, the media and the influences that
:05:53. > :05:56.they need to turn into a productive member of society. What the Prime
:05:57. > :06:00.Minister wrote in the Times today, it was very balanced and measured
:06:01. > :06:04.about this idea, there are particular segments of society, who
:06:05. > :06:07.because of cultural or other practises are marginalised, maybe
:06:08. > :06:11.because they are new arrivals to the country and don't have the language
:06:12. > :06:16.acquisition and he wants to make it easier, it is that simple. As a
:06:17. > :06:22.by-product, was it helpful to actually link the fact that there is
:06:23. > :06:23.a potential for extremism with low levels of English amongst Muslim
:06:24. > :06:28.women? One of the things that's women? One of the things that's
:06:29. > :06:31.challenged everybody around counter extremism is the idea of certain
:06:32. > :06:34.sections of the community, whoever they maybe, feeling as if they are
:06:35. > :06:38.outside of the mainstream. If one of the barriers to that is language,
:06:39. > :06:45.then surely we should do something to tackle it? If you look at a
:06:46. > :06:49.message that the Government is giving of participation, I fully
:06:50. > :06:53.embrace that. When a male Prime Minister tells me that he is
:06:54. > :07:00.embraced equality, a positive message. When the Cabinet has 20
:07:01. > :07:04.member and ten women, those are the bigger issues of ensuring equalities
:07:05. > :07:09.is a standard message. That involves everyone, but it is heard by
:07:10. > :07:12.everyone and not alienating certain segments of the community with
:07:13. > :07:17.punitive measures. Let's look at the measures. Is it right to be looking
:07:18. > :07:19.at not extending visas if somebody has been here for two-and-a-half
:07:20. > :07:26.years and they still don't speak English? Again, I would like to ask
:07:27. > :07:30.David Cameron how would you be measuring someone's level of English
:07:31. > :07:35.in terms of the progress that they may have made in two, two-and-a-half
:07:36. > :07:40.years? As a child of immigrant parents, it is almost implying that
:07:41. > :07:46.integration over a longer term does not work. Investment has got to be
:07:47. > :07:52.more sustained. We have had around 20% cuts in language classes and to
:07:53. > :07:56.suddenly reintroduce ?20 million of investment for a particular targeted
:07:57. > :08:02.minority community simply on the basis of gender is not a thought
:08:03. > :08:07.through messure. It is almost like the Government are running out of
:08:08. > :08:14.ideas around extremism and conflating this dangerously. How
:08:15. > :08:18.would this work? People will be deported if very haven't reached a
:08:19. > :08:27.certain level of English? They wouldn't be deported. They wouldn't
:08:28. > :08:32.have their visa extended. It would be taken into account. How measure?
:08:33. > :08:37.If you apply for a tier two visa, there is a test that establishes the
:08:38. > :08:40.level you need to work here. We assess everybody's English in this
:08:41. > :08:44.country in school anyway by making people take exams. Surely, it is a
:08:45. > :08:49.good thing to have extra money, that is targeted, never mind it was cut
:08:50. > :08:54.by the Government originally in this particular area, but it is targeted
:08:55. > :08:59.to help people who could be marginalised and learn and improve
:09:00. > :09:03.English. I grew up in an Irish family in this country in the 70s
:09:04. > :09:07.and 80s, it wasn't fashionable to be Irish growing up at that time. And I
:09:08. > :09:11.think that feeling of being made to feel other than being fully British
:09:12. > :09:14.is really problematic. I think it is clumsy. I think it would be counter
:09:15. > :09:19.productive for those communities. We need a much more... Do you think it
:09:20. > :09:24.would actually marginalise them further? When you feel you are being
:09:25. > :09:28.attacked for who you are, you know, people gather together, don't they?
:09:29. > :09:33.You sense that you must look after yourselves and I think that's really
:09:34. > :09:38.clumsy and unhelpful at this time. And as Kit said, people are required
:09:39. > :09:41.to pass an English test to come through. I'm in the sure what the
:09:42. > :09:46.detail is. I'm not sure this is being
:09:47. > :09:55.characterised as an attack. This is ?20 million... Cuts from further
:09:56. > :09:58.education colleges. Why are you targeting Muslim women in
:09:59. > :10:03.particular? Is that the only segment in society that can't speak good
:10:04. > :10:07.will you have English in the Government's mind? If you read the
:10:08. > :10:11.article it talks about women generally. The Prime Minister said
:10:12. > :10:14.it would be targeted at women and specifically again at Muslim women.
:10:15. > :10:18.It maybe that he identifies a particular problem. This comes out
:10:19. > :10:22.of a meeting that he held last week with leading Muslim women at Downing
:10:23. > :10:26.Street where a number of them recouldn'ted to him the problems
:10:27. > :10:29.that they felt there were within the community of marginalisation and
:10:30. > :10:34.certain cultural practises which are not beneficial to the progress of
:10:35. > :10:39.women, so naturally he is going to talk about that. When I was a
:10:40. > :10:44.councillor, we had a problem in the Chinese society. That is something
:10:45. > :10:49.that could be addressed too. On the cultural issue, there is a
:10:50. > :10:53.disconnect if there are communities where women are kept at home by
:10:54. > :10:58.their male partners, where they are not given access to the things that
:10:59. > :11:00.other women are given. Do you see that that isn't in accord with the
:11:01. > :11:05.British values that David Cameron believes? I think, I mean, even kind
:11:06. > :11:09.of referring to Kit's point here about the Prime Minister meeting
:11:10. > :11:12.women in Downing Street. I would start off by urging David Cameron to
:11:13. > :11:17.come and speak to the women that we talk to on a daily basis. Some of
:11:18. > :11:23.the issues are very different from what the Government seems to
:11:24. > :11:28.constantly impose and continues to marginalise. There has been a lot of
:11:29. > :11:33.again, disenchantment with the Government's way of messaging. It is
:11:34. > :11:36.very paternalistic and it is constantly reinforcing this view
:11:37. > :11:39.that the Muslim community have got a problem that they need to sort out.
:11:40. > :11:51.There is no partnership element and that's complete lilacing as well.
:11:52. > :12:00.The question for today is: what song does Jeremy Corbyn whistle
:12:01. > :12:03.Is it, A, Only You by the Flying Pickets?
:12:04. > :12:05.B, God Save the Queen by The Sex Pistols?
:12:06. > :12:10.Or D, Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree
:12:11. > :12:14.At the end of the show Karin and Kit will no doubt give us
:12:15. > :12:22.It has not been an easy start to the year for Jeremy Corbyn,
:12:23. > :12:25.but now the dust has settled on his Shadow Cabinet reshuffle,
:12:26. > :12:27.the Labour leader seems keen to shift the focus onto policy.
:12:28. > :12:29.On Friday, Labour launched their defence review,
:12:30. > :12:32.including looking at their policy on Trident, and Mr Corbyn was out
:12:33. > :12:35.at the weekend to set out his stall on a wide range of issues.
:12:36. > :12:38.In an interview on The Andrew Marr Show, Mr Corbyn
:12:39. > :12:40.reiterated his support for the junior doctors strikes said
:12:41. > :12:42.he would repeal legislation outlawing "sympathy strikes".
:12:43. > :12:46.He said that there has to be discussions with Argentina over
:12:47. > :12:48.the future of the Falklands, but that the Islanders have
:12:49. > :12:52.On Trident, he reiterated his anti-nuclear stance,
:12:53. > :12:55.but he put forward the possibility of maintaining the submarines
:12:56. > :13:01.without the nuclear warheads as a way of protecting jobs.
:13:02. > :13:04.And he said that there needs to be a "route through" to talks
:13:05. > :13:12.Dialogue is perhaps the wrong word to use.
:13:13. > :13:15.I think there has to be some understanding of where their strong
:13:16. > :13:17.points are, their weak points are, and how we can
:13:18. > :13:24.So, I believe that the neighbouring governments in the region
:13:25. > :13:28.Look at the way there has been to some degree,
:13:29. > :13:31.at times, of prisoner, hostage exchange.
:13:32. > :13:35.Look, we've got to bring about a political solution in Syria.
:13:36. > :13:38.That's something I've been calling for all along.
:13:39. > :13:41.So, Vienna has made a lot of progress, it has to go a lot
:13:42. > :13:46.But war crimes have got to be addressed.
:13:47. > :13:49.And we are joined now by the Guardian columnist Owen Jones
:13:50. > :14:01.Welcome to you both of you. Dan Hodges, on its foreign policy stuff,
:14:02. > :14:05.what was your overall impression? Well, a normal political context, it
:14:06. > :14:10.would be another disaster for the Labour Party. This these are simply
:14:11. > :14:15.not the issues that Labour wants to be discussing at the moment. Which
:14:16. > :14:21.ones are you talking about? The Falklands, the opening door for
:14:22. > :14:23.negotiation with Isil, Trident, obviously and if you remember when
:14:24. > :14:28.Jeremy Corbyn was first elected within hours of his election, the
:14:29. > :14:32.Conservatives sent out a series of adverts to frame Jeremy Corbyn as
:14:33. > :14:35.weak on defence, weak on national security and to put this issue at
:14:36. > :14:42.the top of the political agenda and indeed, if you saw it, there was an
:14:43. > :14:44.poll in the Independent on Sunday yesterday which shows that national
:14:45. > :14:49.security is at the top of people's concerns. So, on that level, it is
:14:50. > :14:53.disastrous for Labour, but we have to understand this is not a normal
:14:54. > :14:57.political context, Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party are not atelting to
:14:58. > :14:59.frame a programme for Government. It is all about internal politics
:15:00. > :15:04.within the Labour Party for Jeremy Corbyn at the moment. Right, well,
:15:05. > :15:08.let's take two of those Owen Jones and talk about his comments on the
:15:09. > :15:12.Falklands and some sort of talks, not dialogue, with Isil. I mean, is
:15:13. > :15:16.he actually going to be able to change the terms of trade on
:15:17. > :15:21.national security and defence or will he continue to be pigeon-holed
:15:22. > :15:26.in the day that Dan Hodges said he is?
:15:27. > :15:34.On domestic policy it is pretty united, that is where it needs to
:15:35. > :15:38.focus. On foreign policy, what the Labour leadership needs to focus on
:15:39. > :15:44.putting the Government on the defensive, like its alliance with
:15:45. > :15:49.the Saudi dictatorship which beheads its own citizens, kills political
:15:50. > :15:55.dissidents, treats women as having no rights. Crucially, exports
:15:56. > :15:59.international extremism all over the world, a threat to the security of
:16:00. > :16:06.the people watching this programme. A second issue dealing with Isis,
:16:07. > :16:11.the role of Turkey, a British ally, where it allows Isis fighters to
:16:12. > :16:17.cross into Syria, posing a threat to national-security. Lots of issues it
:16:18. > :16:21.could be focusing on. My own view is there is consensus on domestic
:16:22. > :16:26.policy where labour needs to put in an alternative.
:16:27. > :16:32.You say there is consensus but not on defence, particularly Trident. On
:16:33. > :16:37.issues like Saudi, Jeremy Corbyn has raised that issue and one could
:16:38. > :16:43.argue David Cameron responded in terms of prisons being built, human
:16:44. > :16:46.rights, delaying a visit, others the things Jeremy Corbyn has brought to
:16:47. > :16:51.the table. They are not the things that need to
:16:52. > :16:56.be brought to the table. Morally we can have a discussion about Saudi, I
:16:57. > :17:03.would echo those sentiments, but people in the country will not be
:17:04. > :17:08.voting in local, mayoral or general elections on our relationship with
:17:09. > :17:14.Saudi Arabia. Jeremy Corbyn has fallen into a trap David Cameron has
:17:15. > :17:19.set. David Cameron and the Tories wanted to frame Jeremy Corbyn as a
:17:20. > :17:24.leader and the Labour Party as a party weak on national security, and
:17:25. > :17:28.have succeeded spectacularly, primarily as a result of what Jeremy
:17:29. > :17:34.Corbyn has said. The point about Saudi Arabia is it
:17:35. > :17:38.poses a threat to national security in this country. There is a genuine
:17:39. > :17:43.threat to families from extremists who believe in an ideology which is
:17:44. > :17:49.hateful and a threat to the lives of people here. Saudi Arabia is at the
:17:50. > :17:55.Centre. My point is, this is the point of the debate, it is easy, I
:17:56. > :18:00.could get forced to talk about this and that with people saying you are
:18:01. > :18:06.not sticking to parities of people around the country. I am saying the
:18:07. > :18:11.lead -- I am saying the Labour leadership... If I go back home to
:18:12. > :18:17.Stockport, in the pub, there won't be talking about Westminster or the
:18:18. > :18:22.ticks, what are the priorities that affect them on a daily basis? That
:18:23. > :18:27.is what we need to talk about. Let us talk about national security
:18:28. > :18:33.and the issue of Trident, the future of Trident in terms of its renewal.
:18:34. > :18:41.You say there is consensus but there is not. You know, on the issue of
:18:42. > :18:46.Trident, there is a row brewing with the unions, why have Trident
:18:47. > :18:51.submarines without missiles? It cannot be a deterrent if people know
:18:52. > :18:56.there is nothing on board. The issue of nuclear weapons, we
:18:57. > :18:59.should be mature on having a discussion on spending on that.
:19:00. > :19:05.The idea you would have submarines without...
:19:06. > :19:12.With all respect, I had to answer the question. Do we spend ?100
:19:13. > :19:18.billion on nuclear bombs? Many former army generals have argued
:19:19. > :19:22.that as having nuclear bombs which we can't use without the say-so of
:19:23. > :19:26.the US isn't relevant to the security threats we face.
:19:27. > :19:30.People watching world believe we should have nuclear bombs and others
:19:31. > :19:36.who don't. We should be grown up enough as a democracy to have that
:19:37. > :19:42.debate, do we spend that money on conventional Armed Forces? Social
:19:43. > :19:49.care for elderly? Housing? Above all else, what Labour needs to focus on
:19:50. > :19:53.our domestic policies, economy, housing, we aren't even having this
:19:54. > :19:56.discussion now. Do you support the renewal of
:19:57. > :20:02.Trident? I agree we need to focus on domestic
:20:03. > :20:06.policies, the Stockport test also applies in Bristol.
:20:07. > :20:10.What you think about the submarines without missiles?
:20:11. > :20:15.I watched Jeremy, the first I have seen of that. We are undertaking a
:20:16. > :20:22.defence review. I would much rather talk about domestic issues. I am one
:20:23. > :20:25.of 12 Labour MPs out of 197 across the country outside London, someone
:20:26. > :20:30.said there were more Labour MPs, more people have walked on the moon
:20:31. > :20:37.than Labour MPs in the south of England. This is the real issue.
:20:38. > :20:43.Danny is right, security and your family security, international
:20:44. > :20:47.security, is an election issue. It's Jeremy Corbyn helpful to you
:20:48. > :20:53.election campaign? He has been elected for his honesty
:20:54. > :20:57.and straightforward attitude, to be commended. I wish we were rather
:20:58. > :21:03.talking about other things. There is a debate to be had over
:21:04. > :21:08.Trident. There is an issue about nuclear weapons in the world today.
:21:09. > :21:11.There is any debate because Jeremy Corbyn has chosen to have that
:21:12. > :21:18.debate. Everyone in the Labour Party says we need to take the fight to
:21:19. > :21:23.the Tories on various issues but it is Jeremy Corbyn who specifically,
:21:24. > :21:28.remember, there has been a settled consensus on nuclear defence policy
:21:29. > :21:34.for decades. It is Jeremy Corbyn alone who has opened this up.
:21:35. > :21:38.What about trade union laws, secondary picketing, sympathy
:21:39. > :21:41.strikes, is that something to reopen?
:21:42. > :21:46.We need to bring these laws into the 21st-century, we have some of the
:21:47. > :21:51.most restrictive in the Western world, the words of Tony Blair. The
:21:52. > :21:56.problem with existing trade union laws are they are so weighted in
:21:57. > :22:03.favour of the employer. Even before the crash, employers were posting
:22:04. > :22:06.record profits as workers's wagers were flat-lining or falling, because
:22:07. > :22:11.they did not have strong enough trade unions.
:22:12. > :22:15.Less demand in the economy, more people rely on tax credit is what it
:22:16. > :22:20.meant. We can argue the biggest democratic movement in the country
:22:21. > :22:24.represent the people who stack shelves in supermarkets, clean the
:22:25. > :22:30.streets, should have more rights. That would be good for the economy.
:22:31. > :22:33.They would have more sustainable wage rises.
:22:34. > :22:40.On national-security and defence, you argue differently. On the
:22:41. > :22:44.economy, on parts of society who feel they have been marginalised
:22:45. > :22:50.young people, isn't it their way he could strike a chord?
:22:51. > :22:58.No, we know how it ended with Ed Miliband. You can make the argument
:22:59. > :23:02.but actually you can't, this is the problem. The slogan, we want a
:23:03. > :23:10.return to secondary picketing, give the Falklands back to Argentina
:23:11. > :23:14.negotiate with Isis, get rid of Britain's nuclear... That won't
:23:15. > :23:21.work. If Jeremy Corbin wants to make those arguments, he is entitled. You
:23:22. > :23:27.cannot on one hand say you have to pass the Stockport pub test, and on
:23:28. > :23:37.the other hand have Jeremy Corbyn going... Asks to pass the Jolly
:23:38. > :23:43.sailor test at the same time as having him go on Sunday Politics and
:23:44. > :23:46.setting out that programme of what he is offering.
:23:47. > :23:53.These were the questions directly posed to him. You can argue...
:23:54. > :24:00.He said he wanted to change Labour's policy on secondary picketing... In
:24:01. > :24:05.the leadership election, you are telling people that is why we should
:24:06. > :24:10.vote for Jeremy Corbyn. They have voted for him. Now you can't say,
:24:11. > :24:16.how do you ask him this? The point above all else is that
:24:17. > :24:21.what they should be asking is what are his alternative ideas to what
:24:22. > :24:25.the Government is doing. Universal Credit which will leave millions of
:24:26. > :24:32.working families worse off. The housing crisis. The fact at the
:24:33. > :24:35.moment we have a crisis in terms of the unions on the brink of
:24:36. > :24:42.disintegrating. All I would say, the Labour leadership it is incumbent
:24:43. > :24:51.upon them to pass that Jolly sailor test. Focus on housing, falling home
:24:52. > :24:55.ownership, lack of council housing, jobs, social security, issues people
:24:56. > :25:00.care about. BBC journalists will ask about issues more peripheral. The
:25:01. > :25:06.Labour leadership needs to focus on those.
:25:07. > :25:09.Is secondary picketing a crucial priority?
:25:10. > :25:14.It is not a dull time to be a new Labour MP.
:25:15. > :25:18.It is not a priority. How people are involved in their workplace,
:25:19. > :25:21.workplace democracy, the rise of self-employment, how people work
:25:22. > :25:27.today, is what we should be talking about. Bristol has a proud
:25:28. > :25:32.industrial past which is changing, with new jobs. My constituents are
:25:33. > :25:34.disbarred from those. This is the issue.
:25:35. > :25:37.Thank you. Now the steel producer Tata has
:25:38. > :25:40.announced it is cutting around 1,000 jobs today at plants including
:25:41. > :25:42.Port Talbot and Llanwern in South The cuts deal a huge blow
:25:43. > :25:49.to the industry and the Welsh economy, and come on top of almost
:25:50. > :25:52.3,500 job losses in the UK steel The local MP for Port Talbot,
:25:53. > :26:07.Stephen Kinnock, joins us now. The local MP for Port Talbot,
:26:08. > :26:11.question mark yes, this crisis has been brewing for many years and
:26:12. > :26:15.unfortunately we have a Government sitting on its hands, they have not
:26:16. > :26:20.taken the action they needed on the dumping of Chinese steel.
:26:21. > :26:24.There is a strategy for public procurement to maximise local
:26:25. > :26:27.content. There isn't any imagination on business rates.
:26:28. > :26:39.Crippling energy costs. This is not something which has come out in the
:26:40. > :26:40.last month but has been brewing for years.
:26:41. > :26:43.The garment has been asleep at the wheel. What will the impact be on
:26:44. > :26:46.steel working communities? It will be huge, the Port Tolbert steel is
:26:47. > :26:51.the beating heart of our economy will stop we need to look closely at
:26:52. > :26:55.the package for redundancies, to help people to transition to other
:26:56. > :26:59.jobs. A very challenging time for the community and our thoughts are
:27:00. > :27:03.with the people directly affected and their families.
:27:04. > :27:06.There are echoes of the 1980s, the closing of minds. We have the demise
:27:07. > :27:12.of the steel industry. The Chinese steel perch and is more
:27:13. > :27:18.competitive, should we accept that? There was an a level playing field,
:27:19. > :27:21.Chinese steel is subsidised to the helps, it percent of Chinese steel
:27:22. > :27:27.industry is state owned which has enabled them to dump their steel at
:27:28. > :27:31.ridiculously low prices. We're not asking for special treatment but a
:27:32. > :27:36.level playing field. Means using international trading rules to
:27:37. > :27:40.Mitchell we get that fairness and level playing field. Steel is a
:27:41. > :27:47.foundation industry, the homes we live in, cars we drive, this
:27:48. > :27:51.Government has to decide, should the UK produce steel or not?
:27:52. > :27:56.Should it be? I think it should, I have every
:27:57. > :27:59.sympathy. A dreadful blow for Port Tolbert. We have a statement in the
:28:00. > :28:05.House. Was the Government on -- asleep on
:28:06. > :28:12.the job? The Prime Minister took it to the EU too late.
:28:13. > :28:16.Not necessarily asleep on a job but the point about enforcing WTO rules,
:28:17. > :28:21.the Government will push hard to make sure the rules are enforced and
:28:22. > :28:24.the Chinese are not dumping steel. It is not too late, there are
:28:25. > :28:30.negotiations. They had a steel summit when the plant in the Redcar
:28:31. > :28:35.was closed down. ?18 million going into retraining to
:28:36. > :28:39.see if we can move people away from overall reliance on these large
:28:40. > :28:42.heavy industries which are sadly becoming more mobile across the
:28:43. > :28:47.world. An awful lot of stuff is being done.
:28:48. > :28:53.We live in a global market. We benefit from free trade. The idea we
:28:54. > :28:57.can isolate ourselves from these changes is difficult.
:28:58. > :29:02.The key as a Government is how to pluralise and diversify the economy
:29:03. > :29:06.so not reliant on these leviathan industries.
:29:07. > :29:11.In a way that is the Government's fault. In the years of coalition,
:29:12. > :29:18.there was talk of diversifying, not being reliant on financial services.
:29:19. > :29:22.Here we are in 2016, again, reliant on financial services and we have a
:29:23. > :29:28.bubbling housing market. The garment failed its own test.
:29:29. > :29:31.That is not fair. Give me a manufacturing industry which has
:29:32. > :29:34.been balanced. Look at life sciences whether
:29:35. > :29:39.Government has maintained funding in research, and the world it is
:29:40. > :29:48.revered in a way it wasn't ten years ago. Look at Wales, Cardiff, a new
:29:49. > :29:53.bioscience hub built there. Using that as a powerhouse for life
:29:54. > :29:58.sciences in Wales, south Wales. Part of the new industrial strategy. What
:29:59. > :30:03.has happened to manufacturing output?
:30:04. > :30:09.These are intellectual poverty based businesses.
:30:10. > :30:13.Has manufacturing output in the UK contracted or grown?
:30:14. > :30:20.It has been flat. Last figures show it has contracted. It hasn't been a
:30:21. > :30:26.rebalancing of the economy. I would dispute that. In my work,
:30:27. > :30:33.Deputy Mayor for business and enterprise in London. One issue was
:30:34. > :30:37.to make sure we won't reliant on financial services and we worked
:30:38. > :30:42.hard with the south-east and the Welsh and Scots and in the north, to
:30:43. > :30:47.make sure science was the area we concentrated on. That may take time
:30:48. > :30:51.to build. There are more people employed in life sciences in the UK
:30:52. > :31:02.than financial services. You are giving a partial picture.
:31:03. > :31:09.Kit Malthouse has a point. Growth in some areas, but not necessarily
:31:10. > :31:12.where you are. We have to look at diversifying our economy where we
:31:13. > :31:14.can, but in order to do that, you need a Government that's prepared to
:31:15. > :31:18.work in premiership with business and to have a proper industrial
:31:19. > :31:20.strategy that looks at infrastructure, investment, energy,
:31:21. > :31:25.skills, unfortunately we have a Secretary of State for Business who
:31:26. > :31:28.is not even prepared to let the words industrial strategy has his
:31:29. > :31:32.lips. He doesn't believe in it. He is looking at the banking sector as
:31:33. > :31:38.a sector that he thinks is the future of the British economy as you
:31:39. > :31:42.rightly say, Jo, we have got the biggest trade deficit since records
:31:43. > :31:45.began in 1830, we have got a productivity crisis and a massive
:31:46. > :31:48.unbalancing of the British economy with all the wealth and activity
:31:49. > :31:54.being sucked into London and we've got a Government that's not prepared
:31:55. > :31:59.to do anything about it. The time for warm words and excuses are over
:32:00. > :32:04.and we need to see action. The idea of prioritising, after the crash,
:32:05. > :32:07.the Government put up taxpayers money, hundreds of billions of
:32:08. > :32:15.pounds to prop up that industry. Why won't they do something similar for
:32:16. > :32:19.steel? Well, they are. They are putting ?80 million in to recognise
:32:20. > :32:23.that some of these communities need to reskill for some of the new
:32:24. > :32:25.industries that are coming along. Based in the same area? It is
:32:26. > :32:31.interesting the previous conversation. We can do back what we
:32:32. > :32:36.did in the 1970s and 1980s, isolate ourselves from the world and
:32:37. > :32:40.industries over time will move overseas or we can make ourselves
:32:41. > :32:45.more nimble and agile and give people the skills to access the new
:32:46. > :32:50.jobs and the new industries. Spread them out as far and as wide as we
:32:51. > :32:56.can. I want the jobs in my part of the world as well. Before we go,
:32:57. > :33:02.Stephen kin OK on Jeremy Corbyn, but related to our discussion on
:33:03. > :33:05.manufacturing. I mean his policy of unilateral disarmament would deprive
:33:06. > :33:13.the defence industry of thousands of jobs, do you agree with him? No, I
:33:14. > :33:19.don't. I'm committed to the UK keeping a arms deterrent. I think
:33:20. > :33:23.we, but it is based on my experience having lived and worked in Russia
:33:24. > :33:27.for three years and we've got to, this is not the time to be dropping
:33:28. > :33:31.our guard. I will continue to argue forcefully for the renewal of tri
:33:32. > :33:36.didn't and for the UK to keep a nuclear deterrent. What's your view
:33:37. > :33:41.of Jeremy support of secondary picketing action, what will that do
:33:42. > :33:47.to encourage investment? The risk we have is this can stir up a hornets
:33:48. > :33:50.nest without a fully thought out strategy for how we're going to
:33:51. > :33:54.demonstrate that Labour is actually a party of business. We are
:33:55. > :33:59.pro-business. We're not pro business as usual. We want to mend capitalism
:34:00. > :34:02.and not end it at all. This has got to be about a broader reform
:34:03. > :34:06.package. We need to engage with the business community. I'd like to see
:34:07. > :34:11.us working much more closely with business to set out our new
:34:12. > :34:16.strategy, our industrial policy, our strategies for growth. And I think
:34:17. > :34:19.that clearly, what we are talking about here with workplace
:34:20. > :34:23.consultation, secondary picketing, that should be part of a broader
:34:24. > :34:26.conversation. The risk is if you only talk about that, you're
:34:27. > :34:28.isolating yourself from the business community and that's something
:34:29. > :34:31.Labour can't afford to do and should not be doing. Stephen kin OK, thank
:34:32. > :34:39.you. Thank you.
:34:40. > :34:42.Now, in a moment, we'll be talking to two of Fleet Street's finest.
:34:43. > :34:45.But, first, let's take a look at some of the other stories that
:34:46. > :34:47.will be making the news in Westminster this week.
:34:48. > :34:50.This afternoon, MPs will debate a petition calling for Donald Trump
:34:51. > :34:53.to be banned from the UK, and another saying he should
:34:54. > :34:55.On Tuesday, December's inflation figures will be published.
:34:56. > :34:58.And Bank Of England Governor Mark Carney will be making a speech
:34:59. > :35:03.Also on Tuesday, a report into how polling companies got the outcome
:35:04. > :35:05.of last year's general election so wrong, will be published.
:35:06. > :35:07.David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn will face each other
:35:08. > :35:09.in the their weekly clash at PMQs on Wednesday.
:35:10. > :35:12.And Kate Hoey MP launches the Labour campaign to leave the EU,
:35:13. > :35:17.And, on Thursday, David Cameron makes speech to World Economic Forum
:35:18. > :35:23.We're joined now by Emily Ashton from Buzzfeed UK, that's an online
:35:24. > :35:37.Welcome to both of you. No wonder they're looking bemused. Emily,
:35:38. > :35:40.let's talk about the economy. Because we had conflicting reports
:35:41. > :35:44.from George Osborne before Christmas, in the Autumn Statement,
:35:45. > :35:49.it looked as if everything was rosy. More recently, he warned about a
:35:50. > :35:53.dangerous cocktail that needs to be carefully avoided to ensure the
:35:54. > :35:57.British economy stays on track. Is it looking more dangerous now with
:35:58. > :36:01.the job losses? It is all a bit confusing to people, isn't it? In
:36:02. > :36:05.the Autumn Statement, you know, you have suddenly, he has got money to
:36:06. > :36:09.give away to various things and it looked very rosy and suddenly, happy
:36:10. > :36:12.New Year, the year is going to be very gloomy indeed. Interest rates
:36:13. > :36:17.are probably going to go up. The Middle East is looking a bit dodgy
:36:18. > :36:20.and oil prices are plummeting and suddenly, yes, you see the job
:36:21. > :36:23.losses and it is not looking good at all. It is confusing and the economy
:36:24. > :36:28.is not looking as rosy as it was at the end of last year. Sam Coates,
:36:29. > :36:33.was he wrong in the Autumn Statement and has he only just realised? Has
:36:34. > :36:36.the Treasury sat him down and said, "Look, all the things that Emily
:36:37. > :36:42.mentioned and tax receipts aren't going to be as strong as first
:36:43. > :36:47.thought." I don't think he was wrong when he made the Autumn Statement,
:36:48. > :36:54.but he took a risk and the risk was to spend the ?27 billion extra that
:36:55. > :36:57.the independent office for responsibility said was available to
:36:58. > :37:04.him because of a change in forecast, because of lower inflation and those
:37:05. > :37:07.three things meant he did have this pot of money available, what they
:37:08. > :37:11.can give in one Autumn Statement they can take away in a Budget. The
:37:12. > :37:17.big worry for George Osborne is that when it comes round to the next big
:37:18. > :37:20.fiscal event, this year's Budget, which will probably come before the
:37:21. > :37:24.EU referendum and be critical in determining the mood of the country,
:37:25. > :37:27.is that suddenly he finds that forecasts are a bit weaker partly
:37:28. > :37:30.because of Middle East turmoil and partly because manufacturing is
:37:31. > :37:34.showing signs of being in the doll droms, he has the weaker forecasts
:37:35. > :37:39.and they mean there is less money to spend and all of a sudden, he faced
:37:40. > :37:44.with a bill and payments that he has got to make rather than savings he
:37:45. > :37:49.can distribute to the British public. In the last Parliament, he
:37:50. > :37:53.didn't really spend any money. He was committed to spending money if
:37:54. > :37:57.growth forecasts improved and using the cash to pay down the deficit,
:37:58. > :38:01.but he hasn't done that in this Parliament, he is choosing to spend
:38:02. > :38:07.the proceeds of growth. Emily, the EU referendum, an open
:38:08. > :38:11.letter from the Conservative Paul Goodman to the Business Secretary to
:38:12. > :38:14.come out for breaks it. Is this the first of many attempts we will see
:38:15. > :38:19.to out Euro-sceptic Cabinet Ministers? There does seem to be a
:38:20. > :38:24.real divide, isn't there? Between the Cabinet and the backbenchers.
:38:25. > :38:29.There was a poll recently saying two-thirds of Tory backbenchers are
:38:30. > :38:33.for a breaks it. That will change as we come up to the referendum. The
:38:34. > :38:37.kAnt seem to be toeing the line at the moment. Cameron hasn't said he
:38:38. > :38:42.is not against breaks it, but he is likely to do so once he gets his
:38:43. > :38:47.deal possibly next month and only Chris Grayling so far has come out
:38:48. > :38:51.for breaks it. So you can see why the Tory grass-roots are saying to
:38:52. > :38:58.the Cabinet Ministers, please come on, back the party that put you into
:38:59. > :39:02.this position and go for brexit and don't just toe the party line. Will
:39:03. > :39:05.they resist bearing in mind the conditions put down by David
:39:06. > :39:10.Cameron? It is seeming like some of them will. There are two things that
:39:11. > :39:13.the fore most of Tory MPs minds. They got to work out what side they
:39:14. > :39:16.are with this referendum and there is a leadership election probably
:39:17. > :39:20.not that long afterwards and pick the wrong side and you might not get
:39:21. > :39:24.favourable result when the new leader comes along and reshuffles
:39:25. > :39:27.and you could potentially harm your political future because although
:39:28. > :39:31.Cabinet Ministers are being allowed to campaign on either side of this
:39:32. > :39:35.referendum, they're not being encouraged to do so. It is fair to
:39:36. > :39:39.say that David Cameron and George Osborne are prepared to tolerate a
:39:40. > :39:46.few decenters and they are not keen on it and there is a bit of
:39:47. > :39:49.unofficial pressure. I'm speaking to Tory MPs, some of whom are
:39:50. > :39:54.long-standing opponents of the European Union, who are starting to
:39:55. > :39:58.go, "Maybe I should stay inside and vote in and go for the safe option
:39:59. > :40:03.as David Cameron's renegotiation starts to come together and we get
:40:04. > :40:07.to find out the elements of it." So I think the message is never over
:40:08. > :40:12.estimate the spine of a Tory MP or a Labour MP! There is preferment and
:40:13. > :40:17.promotion potentially ahead if they do the right thing. Right, I will
:40:18. > :40:19.take your advice on that. Sam and Emily, thank you very much.
:40:20. > :40:28.The various in and out groups revving up to campaign,
:40:29. > :40:31.in a referendum that could come as soon as June.
:40:32. > :40:34.Now, add to that list, Conservatives For Reform In Europe,
:40:35. > :40:37.a group that will campaign to stay in, and is led by former
:40:38. > :40:43.In a moment, I'll be talking to Mr Herbert,
:40:44. > :40:45.a veteran of the campaign to keep Britain out of the euro.
:40:46. > :40:47.But, yesterday, Ukip leader Nigel Farage questioned
:40:48. > :40:51.Nick Herbert's eurosceptic credentials.
:40:52. > :40:54.I've never regarded Nick Herbert as a staunch Euro-sceptic.
:40:55. > :40:56.He briefly, in the 1990s, worked for an organisation that
:40:57. > :41:06.campaigned to keep the pound. He was paid to do it.
:41:07. > :41:10.I don't know, lawyers take on briefs, whether they believe
:41:11. > :41:15.When he was a minister and since, he's never once advocated Britain
:41:16. > :41:18.He's doing a job bolstering the Prime Minister.
:41:19. > :41:20.Look, there's been lots of regulation, will Boris Johnson
:41:21. > :41:36.I suspect that most senior politicians inside the Conservative
:41:37. > :41:38.Party will put their careers before their conscience,
:41:39. > :41:40.and will back the Prime Minister's position.
:41:41. > :41:49.I mean you led the national No Campaign against adopting the euro
:41:50. > :41:53.currency, were you ever really a Euro-sceptic? As Nigel Farage
:41:54. > :41:58.questions. I was Euro-sceptic in the sense we were saying it was damaging
:41:59. > :42:03.to join the euro at a time when a lot of the pro-EU people were saying
:42:04. > :42:07.that was the only choice and some of those are saying we should stay in
:42:08. > :42:12.the European Union now. I don't have much time for them or that argument,
:42:13. > :42:17.but our slogan was Europe yes, euro no. I think Nigel, I understand, he
:42:18. > :42:22.was put on-the-spot, looked to me like he was playing the man, but he
:42:23. > :42:26.should be careful before he makes sweeping allegations. He said I'd
:42:27. > :42:32.never advocated since then leaving the EU. I'm sure he didn't read my
:42:33. > :42:37.book Why Vote Conservative last year. In it, I was clear that we
:42:38. > :42:40.need to weigh up the costs and the benefits and if we didn't get
:42:41. > :42:43.sufficient reform in the EU that we should be prepared to leave. I said
:42:44. > :42:47.that. So it was wrong for him to suggest otherwise. I was attacked
:42:48. > :42:52.yesterday from some people saying why is somebody who is a sceptic
:42:53. > :42:58.joining this side of the argument? And others who are pro-European
:42:59. > :43:04.saying this person suddenly appears to be pro-European. Or you're facing
:43:05. > :43:06.both ways, let me put it like that. Are you going to campaign to stay
:43:07. > :43:10.in? We need to Are you going to campaign to stay
:43:11. > :43:14.the Prime Minister is saying that he needs to wait to see the outcome of
:43:15. > :43:17.the renegotiations. We are supporting the Prime Minister's
:43:18. > :43:21.position which is to say there needs to be substantial reform in Europe
:43:22. > :43:25.to address key public concerns over issues like migration and ever
:43:26. > :43:31.closer union provided there is that reform. The Prime Minister said he
:43:32. > :43:36.wants to campaign to stay in, but he made clear that if there is not
:43:37. > :43:39.reform and he said this in his Chatham House speech, he said we
:43:40. > :43:44.will have to reconsider our option and that's certainly my view. Who do
:43:45. > :43:47.you think should set this group up? I have been talking to
:43:48. > :43:54.colleaguesment there are a lot of us who feel there needed to be a voice
:43:55. > :43:57.in this debate and that I have, of course, had discussions with a lot
:43:58. > :44:00.of people about that including the Prime Minister. Did Downing
:44:01. > :44:04.of people about that including the ask you to set up this group? No,
:44:05. > :44:07.they didn't ask me to set up this group. Of course, I talked to the
:44:08. > :44:10.Prime Minister about this. To echo what the Prime Minister is doing? We
:44:11. > :44:13.are supporting the Prime Minister's position. And the Chancellor? Did
:44:14. > :44:18.you speak to the chancellor? I haven't spoken to the chancellor
:44:19. > :44:24.about this. But, you know, there is a group of Conservatives who are
:44:25. > :44:26.very strongly proEU and that's, I think, a completely respectable
:44:27. > :44:30.position and they always have been and there is a group who want to
:44:31. > :44:33.leave the European Union and that's, you know, they are entitled to that
:44:34. > :44:36.view and I respect that view too, but in the body of the party, and I
:44:37. > :44:39.think this is true in the country as well, there are people who think
:44:40. > :44:45.there are things that are really wrong with the European Union. That
:44:46. > :44:50.need to be reformed. They're worried about the drift to ever closer union
:44:51. > :44:53.and they're worried about the competitiveness and they are worried
:44:54. > :44:56.about migration and they want to see those changes and if they do see the
:44:57. > :44:59.changes they will want to stay in. That was the voice we wanted to
:45:00. > :45:02.give. You support the Prime Minister's stance come what may,
:45:03. > :45:09.that's what you said in your opening remarks? We support the Prime
:45:10. > :45:11.Minister's stance to secure a substantial renegotiation in the
:45:12. > :45:16.European Union and it is very important that he does get that. I
:45:17. > :45:19.think just as he has not ruled anything out, nor do we. Have you
:45:20. > :45:23.been promised another ministerial job? Of course, I haven't been
:45:24. > :45:27.promised another ministerial job. Just asking. I was the one who
:45:28. > :45:32.resigned from the Government, for various reasons that we talked about
:45:33. > :45:37.lots of times before. But this... You could become a minister after
:45:38. > :45:40.the referendum? That depends. It is never my decision entirely. It is a
:45:41. > :45:44.question of being asked. That's nothing to do with this. The point
:45:45. > :45:48.is that all of us are going to have to decide because the public are
:45:49. > :45:52.being given a say. A say that lots of people said the Prime Minister
:45:53. > :45:55.would never deliver on and he did and now we've legislated for it and
:45:56. > :45:58.there will be a referendum by the end of next year. So everyone will
:45:59. > :46:01.have to decide as the public will be given that say, but what it means is
:46:02. > :46:05.that Conservative members of Parliament will have to decide and
:46:06. > :46:09.some people very clearly make up their minds on one side or the
:46:10. > :46:12.other, but others like me, feel very strongly that this is a question of
:46:13. > :46:16.weighing up the costs and the benefits and for me, provided that
:46:17. > :46:19.we get reform, we can have the best of both worlds in the European
:46:20. > :46:23.Union. The reformed European Union and there are dangers in leaving,
:46:24. > :46:28.risks in leaving, that I think it is very important that we look at.
:46:29. > :46:35.Do you like the sound of this particular group?
:46:36. > :46:43.Nick is a smart guy, I welcome more information. Referendums are not the
:46:44. > :46:48.moderate's friend. Anything that can give a rational, saying exposition
:46:49. > :46:53.of one side or particular issues is to be welcomed.
:46:54. > :46:57.Do you think Eurosceptic cabinet ministers and we know who they are,
:46:58. > :47:02.including Michael Gove, Theresa May, should they come out with their
:47:03. > :47:06.views? Not yet, no. The negotiations
:47:07. > :47:12.haven't finished. The Prime Minister is batting at the crease in Europe.
:47:13. > :47:18.The idea we should be undermining him if, and there are some people
:47:19. > :47:22.with fundamental views. That is fine. But those people who are in
:47:23. > :47:26.the middle and want the Prime Minister to win in Europe and then
:47:27. > :47:32.take a view, for me, it is about ever closer union. Brussels seems
:47:33. > :47:36.like an imperial capital. If the Prime Minister can pull us out, then
:47:37. > :47:41.I start to feel comfortable. I would vote to leave today, if there was a
:47:42. > :47:46.vote. If Boris Johnson leads the ad
:47:47. > :47:52.campaign, he would add two points. Do you think he will vote to leave?
:47:53. > :47:56.I have no idea, you must ask. We would if he would come on.
:47:57. > :48:02.He has made some suggestions to the Prime Minister.
:48:03. > :48:06.Would he be a good campaigner, heading up...
:48:07. > :48:11.He is a formidable campaigner. You all view? I have always been in
:48:12. > :48:14.favour. There is an appetite for more information and a proper
:48:15. > :48:19.debate. Do you welcome Kate Hoey, her stance
:48:20. > :48:27.and group? She has been there for many years.
:48:28. > :48:36.Amongst Labour MPs, we are very united. 215 out of 232 on the
:48:37. > :48:39.inside. But I do recognise, I visited Brussels with my
:48:40. > :48:44.13-year-old, explaining to a new generation why I am so pro-European,
:48:45. > :48:49.white our future is better there, is a good thing. I hope we get beyond
:48:50. > :48:52.this dancing on a pimp within the Conservative Party, to have some
:48:53. > :48:54.good debates. Thank you.
:48:55. > :48:56.Now, this afternoon, MPs will debate whether to ban
:48:57. > :48:58.Republican presidential candidate, Donald Trump from Britain.
:48:59. > :49:00.More than half-a-million people clicked on an online petition,
:49:01. > :49:03.after Mr Trump called for Muslims to be banned from the US.
:49:04. > :49:06.MPs will also debate an opposing petition which calls for him
:49:07. > :49:21.It's not first parliamentary debate of its kind -
:49:22. > :49:23.since they were first debated in Parliament,
:49:24. > :49:25.hundreds of public petitions have been heard.
:49:26. > :49:27.But how could you get your petition discussed by MPs?
:49:28. > :49:29.Here's Ellie with her cut-out-and-keep Daily Politics
:49:30. > :49:32.Every now and then, the House of Commons has to deal
:49:33. > :49:35.with a petition on some subject or another and,
:49:36. > :49:37.this time, it is on the rising cost of living.
:49:38. > :49:39.It is a strong tradition, the mighty British petition.
:49:40. > :49:41.75 Irish civil rights campaigners march from Trafalgar Square
:49:42. > :49:44.to Downing Street, to hand in a petition demanding an inquiry
:49:45. > :49:45.into the conduct of Londonderry police.
:49:46. > :49:48.A chance for ordinary people to stand up and be counted
:49:49. > :49:50.for the important things they care about.
:49:51. > :49:52.Like being allowed to ride a Segway on the road.
:49:53. > :49:54.They may look like slightly aggrieved Lottery winners,
:49:55. > :49:56.but these people were petitioning to save the cheque.
:49:57. > :49:58.And then, of course, there were a couple
:49:59. > :50:01.about Jeremy Clarkson becoming Prime Minister,
:50:02. > :50:05.keeping his job at the BBC, that sort of thing.
:50:06. > :50:07.Successive governments have acknowledged the power of them.
:50:08. > :50:10.Downing Street launched an e-petition site in Novemenber
:50:11. > :50:15.2006, and it got beefed up last year.
:50:16. > :50:17.Now, if a petition on the government website gets more than 100,000
:50:18. > :50:20.signatures, a committee of MPs decides whether to give
:50:21. > :50:27.Since 2011, there have been 32 petitions that started here that
:50:28. > :50:30.ended up being debated in some way in Westminster.
:50:31. > :50:33.This morning, there were well over 5,000 petitions on this site.
:50:34. > :50:36.Of course, they have mixed amounts of support.
:50:37. > :50:40.The one about Theresa May going on a night shift with a police
:50:41. > :50:42.officer, allowing Armed Forces personnel to have a neatly trimmed
:50:43. > :50:45.Or making antifreeze less tasty for cats,
:50:46. > :50:56.The big one coming up is the one about him being allowed in the UK
:50:57. > :51:02.Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown
:51:03. > :51:06.of Muslims entering the United States, until our
:51:07. > :51:08.country's representatives can figure out what the hell
:51:09. > :51:16.More than 574,000 people signed the petition against Donald Trump
:51:17. > :51:21.The MP introducing the debate doesn't agree with him,
:51:22. > :51:25.but does think today is a crucial exercise in democracy.
:51:26. > :51:29.It is extremely unlikely we'd have a vote.
:51:30. > :51:32.But the whole point is we use Parliament, like many other debates
:51:33. > :51:37.If there is an impassioned view that comes
:51:38. > :51:41.from this debate, that it is in the national interest to ban Trump,
:51:42. > :51:44.NEWSREEL: Mrs Hilda Davis is first in the ring
:51:45. > :51:49.She aims to get 10,000 signatures on her Hands Off Our Food petition.
:51:50. > :51:52.The top five most popular petitions on the Government's
:51:53. > :51:57.website have two million signatures between them.
:51:58. > :52:00.The idea of petitions isn't a new one, but modern technology
:52:01. > :52:03.may have made the voice of the people a little louder.
:52:04. > :52:05.We're joined now by the Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett,
:52:06. > :52:08.who supports banning Donald Trump from the UK.
:52:09. > :52:14.And by Ukip MEP David Coburn, who does not.
:52:15. > :52:19.Welcome to both of you, why should he be banned?
:52:20. > :52:23.We have seen under the provisions of the Home Secretary to not give a
:52:24. > :52:28.visa to someone whose presence is not conducive to the public good,
:52:29. > :52:32.about 200 people have been banned, it is reasonable to say Donald Trump
:52:33. > :52:38.with the kind of word we have been hearing fits that, he would not be
:52:39. > :52:42.in terms of the early day motion signed, this would not be good for
:52:43. > :52:46.community cohesion and it is reasonable not to give him a visa.
:52:47. > :52:50.He could win nomination for the Republicans and a possibility he
:52:51. > :52:55.might become president. We are talking about the situation
:52:56. > :53:00.at the moment and his track record. It is unlikely but were it to happen
:53:01. > :53:04.he would have two backpedal on some odd things he has said.
:53:05. > :53:07.If someone later said they have said the wrong thing, people can change
:53:08. > :53:12.their mind. Would it be good for community
:53:13. > :53:19.cohesion? What he said was ridiculous. It is
:53:20. > :53:26.not based on race, it is a religion, a grouping. Utterly ludicrous.
:53:27. > :53:32.Why not ban him? I am a great believer in freedom of speech, we
:53:33. > :53:37.are a libertarian party. I would rather defeat the man in the public
:53:38. > :53:42.arena in discussion. Like Nick Griffin who was taken apart. They
:53:43. > :53:48.kept him off TV for years, and finally he was destroyed on TV.
:53:49. > :53:53.He also highlights things now and again which are not entirely being
:53:54. > :53:57.ignored by the public. Like what? The problem is generally
:53:58. > :54:02.politically, with the Middle East, he is willing to talk about it.
:54:03. > :54:09.Other people want to hide it. The thing about Donald Trump is the
:54:10. > :54:12.makes Doctor Strangelove seem like a documentary rather than fiction. It
:54:13. > :54:19.is terrifying thought he could be president. He makes a lot of money
:54:20. > :54:25.in business. But in terms of running the world, that is worrying. But we
:54:26. > :54:29.cannot ignore him. Why not take him on in the way David
:54:30. > :54:33.was saying, defeat him if you don't agree?
:54:34. > :54:40.We are in a different situation to the BNP, which was part of British
:54:41. > :54:44.society. This is a question of allowing someone in. We have made
:54:45. > :54:52.the decision in 200 previous cases, the guy who built himself as a --
:54:53. > :54:58.billed himself as a seduction expert but who was fired against women.
:54:59. > :55:01.There is something different. The trunk is in a different
:55:02. > :55:07.category? He is not advocating the sort of
:55:08. > :55:13.stuff Islamic State are. A wholly different situation. If he
:55:14. > :55:19.had been anybody else, you would be screaming about other things.
:55:20. > :55:24.I love the way there is a problem as far as I am concerned, this is a
:55:25. > :55:27.women's issue. I am not happy about what is happening. You don't scream
:55:28. > :55:35.about that. Let us pick up on freedom of speech.
:55:36. > :55:38.People are allowed to say what they think.
:55:39. > :55:44.The great principle of freedom of speech, 6000 British people have
:55:45. > :55:50.signed a petition. 40,000 signed on the other side. MPs
:55:51. > :55:56.are debating what the public has told them they are concerned about.
:55:57. > :55:59.A small step forward for democracy. With a pond that doesn't represent
:56:00. > :56:04.the people. Is this a waste of time?
:56:05. > :56:09.I agree with Natalie, the new position system does allow people to
:56:10. > :56:18.have some kind of debate and say. There does need to be some kind of
:56:19. > :56:20.look at what comes in. But that is a forward step.
:56:21. > :56:27.Should he be banned? I don't think so. You should use the
:56:28. > :56:30.banning order very sparingly. I will be interested to see what people
:56:31. > :56:34.say. Do you agree he does say things that
:56:35. > :56:41.need to be discussed on issues like the Middle East?
:56:42. > :56:46.A broken clock is right twice a day. He will happen randomly on issues
:56:47. > :56:51.which may be present. The truth is he is a clown. His words were foul
:56:52. > :56:55.and detestable and we should acknowledge that.
:56:56. > :57:00.He is doing well in the polls. The debate today is a good idea. If
:57:01. > :57:04.we can bring home to Americans their decision about who they elect and
:57:05. > :57:06.select as candidate has international implications, then we
:57:07. > :57:13.should. I don't think we should ban him, if
:57:14. > :57:16.he becomes president, but he hasn't made many friends in Scotland where
:57:17. > :57:21.he has an awful lot of money invested.
:57:22. > :57:29.I disagree with almost everything he says. What he said about the former
:57:30. > :57:32.First Minister... Substitute other ethnic minorities
:57:33. > :57:35.in his face and what reaction with there have been?
:57:36. > :57:41.He is not the only leader talking about Muslims. The Czech president
:57:42. > :57:47.has said it is impossible to integrate Muslims into communities,
:57:48. > :57:51.post an instance like Cologne. Is that equally offensive?
:57:52. > :57:53.There is a problem that has to be discussed, there is a problem
:57:54. > :57:58.integrating people with too many people coming. That is the problem
:57:59. > :58:03.in Outer Paris, far too many have arrived. They are not being
:58:04. > :58:09.integrated into French society which is why we have jihadi is.
:58:10. > :58:12.In Scotland, we don't have bad race relations because we don't have too
:58:13. > :58:15.many people. I have to stop you...
:58:16. > :58:18.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:19. > :58:21.The question was: What song does Jeremy Corbyn sing to his cat?
:58:22. > :58:25.God Save The Queen, by the Sex Pistols.
:58:26. > :58:28.Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Old Oak Tree,
:58:29. > :58:31.Karin and Kit, what's the correct answer?
:58:32. > :58:37.The answer is Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Old Oak Tree.
:58:38. > :58:46.You have thought about this, well done. Jeremy Corbyn does not have a
:58:47. > :58:48.name for the cat. Ours go missing regularly.
:58:49. > :58:50.That's all for today. Thanks to our guests.
:58:51. > :58:53.The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:54. > :58:56.I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories
:58:57. > :58:59.Do join me then. Bye-bye.