:00:36. > :00:38.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.David Cameron is in Prague on the latest leg of his tour
:00:42. > :00:45.to drum up support for his plans for EU reform.
:00:46. > :00:48.The Prime Minister says he's not in a hurry,
:00:49. > :00:50.despite speculation that's he's still aiming for a referendum
:00:51. > :00:56.Meanwhile, the EU is facing bigger problems than Brexit as thousands
:00:57. > :00:59.of migrants continue to arrive daily - can Europe's
:01:00. > :01:07.They're no longer smoke-filled and now they let in women -
:01:08. > :01:09.we'll be looking at the role of gentlemen's clubs
:01:10. > :01:27.But just why would Germany be named the best country in the world?
:01:28. > :01:30.All that in the next hour and with us for the first half
:01:31. > :01:33.of the show is the journalist and broadcaster Cristina Odone.
:01:34. > :01:44.the Prime Minister has ordered ministers to clamp down on lawyers
:01:45. > :01:47.pursuing claims against veterans of the Iraq war.
:01:48. > :01:50.He's asked the National Security Council to draw up options to end
:01:51. > :01:51.what Number Ten called "spurious claims".
:01:52. > :01:54.Lawyers are continuing to refer alleged abuse by soldiers
:01:55. > :01:58.to the Iraq Historic Allegations Team, which has so far informed
:01:59. > :02:02.about 280 UK veterans they are under investigation for alleged abuse.
:02:03. > :02:09.Well, there are a number of steps I'm going to be examining.
:02:10. > :02:11.First is making sure that people cannot claim
:02:12. > :02:14.legal aid unless they are resident in the UK.
:02:15. > :02:17.We're going to look at the measures we can take against companies that
:02:18. > :02:24.We're also going to look at the conditional fee
:02:25. > :02:27.arrangements, the so-called no-win, no fee arrangements that some
:02:28. > :02:29.of these companies are entering into.
:02:30. > :02:32.So we will take whatever steps are necessary to make sure
:02:33. > :02:36.we shut down this industry that I think is treating people who have
:02:37. > :02:41.served their country in such an appalling way.
:02:42. > :02:43.Well we're joined now by Clive Baldwin.
:02:44. > :02:47.He's the senior legal adviser from Human Rights Watch.
:02:48. > :02:54.Welcome to the Daily Politics. As you've heard, David Cameron says he
:02:55. > :02:58.will take whatever steps to curb this industry. Is he right to do it?
:02:59. > :03:02.What the Prime Minister is wrong to do is to be making such statements
:03:03. > :03:07.when enquiries are ongoing. There is an independent investigation going
:03:08. > :03:10.on and the results of an independent investigation into the allegations
:03:11. > :03:15.of crimes. For the Prime Minister to step in now and say that all the
:03:16. > :03:21.allegations are spurious, talk about destroying an industry. He's not
:03:22. > :03:25.saying all of them but he is saying he wants to stamp out spurious legal
:03:26. > :03:29.claims against British troops who are serving their country. The broad
:03:30. > :03:33.principle - is that something you would support? The place to decide
:03:34. > :03:39.whether a claim is spurious or not is in the courts. But the industry,
:03:40. > :03:42.he is saying, itself, should be looked at very carefully. Not just
:03:43. > :03:46.individual firms are not just individual cases but he is calling
:03:47. > :03:53.it an industry. When your mind that is wrong? That is wrong. What do you
:03:54. > :03:57.think? I think places like human rights watch have done fantastic
:03:58. > :04:03.work, monitoring what is going on out in Iraq and other places. The
:04:04. > :04:07.British justice system, of course, whether it is the military or the
:04:08. > :04:10.civilian branch, should be totally accountable, but there is beginning
:04:11. > :04:17.to be a feeling that there are witchhunts going on, that lawyers
:04:18. > :04:21.are taking advantage of, and that this whole no-win, no fee mentality
:04:22. > :04:25.is about getting the this whole no-win, no fee mentality
:04:26. > :04:29.matter what, rather than the pursuit of the truth, which is what we like
:04:30. > :04:34.to think rule by law means. Do you want to respond to that? Rule by law
:04:35. > :04:37.must be pursued of the truth but it is important to say these
:04:38. > :04:40.allegations have that does come from the lawyers. They originally from
:04:41. > :04:45.the British media, which investigated ten years ago, from the
:04:46. > :04:50.Red Cross, who made reports that time saying they were very
:04:51. > :04:53.concerned, from people like a senior legal adviser of the Armed Forces in
:04:54. > :05:02.Iraq, who spoke at great length about this. And even public
:05:03. > :05:08.enquiries and though a particular in Greek rejected some claims, it found
:05:09. > :05:11.evidence of abuses going on. What about the point Cristina is making
:05:12. > :05:15.about the core of some of these claims, these no-win, no fee
:05:16. > :05:19.arrangements, that some people are being encouraged to come forward,
:05:20. > :05:24.that the number of claims has grown exponentially over the last few
:05:25. > :05:28.years, that that, in fact, is driving a different sort of momentum
:05:29. > :05:33.to claims that are made? No-win, no feed... I'm not an expert on this
:05:34. > :05:37.issue but as I understand it, it was partly brought in by the Labour
:05:38. > :05:43.government when it started cutting back on legal aid, so it is not to
:05:44. > :05:48.attack the messenger, it is more to say... And remember, this is a very
:05:49. > :05:52.special case. The UK had invaded and occupied part of Iraq, so was
:05:53. > :05:55.responsible for governing citizens. If those people made a claim, there
:05:56. > :06:00.has to be some measure of accountability. If the reports RIA,
:06:01. > :06:03.that legal aid is going to be clawed back, or they are not going to be
:06:04. > :06:06.made available to people who aren't resident in the UK, that is going to
:06:07. > :06:14.prevent people putting in claims at all. We obviously want everybody to
:06:15. > :06:23.have access to justice but there is a sniffing sense here that no-win,
:06:24. > :06:28.no fee is about the pursuit of money, rather than justice. But
:06:29. > :06:31.soldiers shouldn't be above the law, should they? Absolutely not. But on
:06:32. > :06:36.the other hand, I don't think lawyers should rule everything,
:06:37. > :06:44.either. Are firms like Leigh Day and others just ambulance chasers? Leigh
:06:45. > :06:47.Day and others have also been responsible for others. There was
:06:48. > :06:53.recently the case of people from a Miao Miao in Kenya in the 1950s,
:06:54. > :07:00.which took 15 years and in the end the British Government admit it on a
:07:01. > :07:05.mass scale because of litigation that was brought. Is important to
:07:06. > :07:11.say that the proper place for any allegations against lawyers is with
:07:12. > :07:14.the lawyers regulatory authority, it is not for the Prime Minister to be
:07:15. > :07:18.saying that while the allegation is going on. That does damage the
:07:19. > :07:22.appearance of rule of law. What do you say to the defence secretary,
:07:23. > :07:26.claiming there will be a fear of lawsuits which could then impede the
:07:27. > :07:29.effectiveness of British troops? Well, anyone who actually has gone
:07:30. > :07:35.above the law needs to fear those lawsuits. What you do need is a
:07:36. > :07:38.proper system of independent, speedy investigation, which can clear the
:07:39. > :07:42.innocent quickly and if anyone is guilty of war crimes, that they are
:07:43. > :07:46.held accountable quickly. It all needs to be speeded up. Thank you.
:07:47. > :07:54.Forget about Miss Saigon, The Phantom Of The Opera
:07:55. > :07:56.or Les Miserables - there's a new musical opening
:07:57. > :07:58.in London soon that is sure to break box office records,
:07:59. > :08:03.So our question this morning is, what particular part
:08:04. > :08:05.of the Labour leader's life is the musical concentrating on?
:08:06. > :08:08.A - his alleged motorcycle holiday with Diane Abbott?
:08:09. > :08:18.the correct answer later in the show.
:08:19. > :08:23.So, speculation about when an EU referendum takes place rumbles on.
:08:24. > :08:26.Plenty of people in Westminster are putting their money on a date
:08:27. > :08:29.in late June, but that depends on the outcome of an EU
:08:30. > :08:38.And David Cameron's hopes for a deal next month took a blow
:08:39. > :08:41.as French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said that discussions
:08:42. > :08:47.Last night David Cameron responded, saying that he was in no hurry
:08:48. > :08:50.to hold the referendum if the deal on offer from the EU
:08:51. > :08:54.Meanwhile, speculation continues about which cabinet ministers
:08:55. > :08:56.might split from the Prime Minister
:08:57. > :09:00.and campaign for an "out" vote regardless of the reforms.
:09:01. > :09:02.Here's Eurosceptic Cabinet Minister Theresa Villiers
:09:03. > :09:08.This is a crucial question and I'm proud of the fact that it's
:09:09. > :09:10.a Conservative government that are giving the people
:09:11. > :09:14.of the United Kingdom the choice to vote on our relationship
:09:15. > :09:21.We all need to wait for the outcome of the referendum...
:09:22. > :09:26.If nothing is brought back, you will be voting to get out?
:09:27. > :09:32.Well, certainly no one is happy with the status quo.
:09:33. > :09:34.The Prime Minister isn't, the government isn't
:09:35. > :09:37.and, frankly, I think there are many people across this country
:09:38. > :09:38.who would agree that the European Union needs
:09:39. > :09:42.It needs to become more competitive, it needs to be fairer
:09:43. > :09:46.Well, we don't know what he's going to come back with,
:09:47. > :09:49.if anything, but if he comes back with nothing you will be
:09:50. > :09:51.Well, the government will obviously take a view...
:09:52. > :09:53.You. You.
:09:54. > :09:55.We need to wait and see what the outcome of
:09:56. > :09:58.the negotiation is and then the reality is that every man
:09:59. > :10:00.and woman in this country has the choice.
:10:01. > :10:02.Home Secretary Theresa May, who has so far refused to pick
:10:03. > :10:05.a side, was yesterday seen lunching with leading Eurosceptic Liam Fox,
:10:06. > :10:07.prompting rumours that she could still be persuaded to back
:10:08. > :10:12.And there are plenty of other big public figures wading in this week.
:10:13. > :10:15.First the Pope called for Britain to stay in, while this morning actor
:10:16. > :10:21.Michael Caine told the Today programme he was backing Brexit.
:10:22. > :10:28.You've now got in Europe a sort of government by proxy of everybody,
:10:29. > :10:35.And I think unless there's some extremely
:10:36. > :10:40.significant changes, we should get out.
:10:41. > :10:43.It all means David Cameron has a lot of work to do
:10:44. > :10:47.if he is going to secure a deal that he can take to the country
:10:48. > :10:49.as evidence of why we should stay in Europe.
:10:50. > :10:53.Today he leaves the World Economic Forum in Davos to travel to Prague.
:10:54. > :11:00.Our correspondent Eleanor Garnier can tell us more.
:11:01. > :11:05.So, Eleanor, another pit stop and David Cameron's tour of European
:11:06. > :11:11.capitals. These visits just for show? Well, he's done so many of
:11:12. > :11:15.them, hasn't he? There are only four weeks to go until the EU leaders are
:11:16. > :11:19.going to be in Brussels and trying to find consensus on this and at the
:11:20. > :11:23.moment, the deal is far from done, so he's got a lot of hard work to do
:11:24. > :11:28.before mid-to-late February. The Czech Republic has been one of the
:11:29. > :11:33.most outspoken countries over David Cameron's plans for that four-year
:11:34. > :11:37.ban on EU migrants claiming in work benefits. The government there is
:11:38. > :11:42.firmly opposed to anything that might undermine the principle of
:11:43. > :11:45.freedom of movement and, of course, firmly opposed to anything that
:11:46. > :11:50.might discriminate against its own citizens. Having said all that, it
:11:51. > :11:54.does want the UK to stay in the use. It has said that it is willing to
:11:55. > :11:59.find a solution but clearly they just haven't got to that point just
:12:00. > :12:04.yet and that is why David Cameron is on his latest stop of his diplomatic
:12:05. > :12:09.tour. And there's been a change of tone, hasn't there, in the last week
:12:10. > :12:13.or so, from David Cameron and, it seems, George Osborne in terms of
:12:14. > :12:16.timing of the renegotiation and then a referendum? I know they haven't
:12:17. > :12:20.given explicitly a date but it did sound like it could happen this
:12:21. > :12:24.year. Now he's in no hurry to get a deal. Is that an admission that his
:12:25. > :12:28.timetable has now been thrown off course or is that part of his
:12:29. > :12:33.expectation management? It is definitely expectation management.
:12:34. > :12:36.If, like you and me, you've been playing very close attention to what
:12:37. > :12:41.ministers have been saying last week or so, you might have concluded a
:12:42. > :12:44.deal was very close to being done because George Osborne said just at
:12:45. > :12:48.the end of last week the essential pieces of the deal were falling into
:12:49. > :12:54.place. The Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond, said recently that a June
:12:55. > :12:58.referendum was quite possible. So we have this growing sense of momentum,
:12:59. > :13:02.this optimism, and almost inevitability that a deal in
:13:03. > :13:06.February would be done and I think David Cameron could have ended up
:13:07. > :13:11.extremely red-faced if he'd got to the February summit and it didn't
:13:12. > :13:14.deliver a deal. So we saw some very clear expectation management
:13:15. > :13:19.yesterday and on top of that, we also heard, as you pointed out from
:13:20. > :13:24.french fry minister Manuel Valls, saying more time was needed for
:13:25. > :13:28.discussion and a deal at any cost would not be acceptable. -- French
:13:29. > :13:34.Prime Minister. I think the tone has changed over the last week or so.
:13:35. > :13:38.Thank you. We're joint by Robert Oxley from the Vote League campaign.
:13:39. > :13:42.David Cameron told French TV last week that he feels deeply European
:13:43. > :13:46.so that means is going to campaign to stay in. I do think it is quite
:13:47. > :13:50.clear that the Prime Minister made his decision a long time ago that he
:13:51. > :13:53.was going to campaign to stay in at all costs and I think the
:13:54. > :13:57.renegotiation has effectively become an expectation management game. It's
:13:58. > :14:01.become a very trivial exercise in renegotiating our relationship but
:14:02. > :14:04.it isn't going to bring powers back, it isn't going to solve the problem
:14:05. > :14:09.is that the Prime Minister said were absolutely key. The independent
:14:10. > :14:14.George Osborne think tank have said that they will have not much affect
:14:15. > :14:18.on immigration, so I think David Cameron is very much replicating
:14:19. > :14:22.what Caine's movies. Is gone off to Europe, tried to do a smash and grab
:14:23. > :14:26.but is ultimately coming home empty-handed. You thought about that
:14:27. > :14:30.on the Michael came from. Christine, you are in favour of Britain
:14:31. > :14:35.remaining in the EU. Do you think David Cameron is going to get a
:14:36. > :14:38.thing substantial or is this a bit of a Charente? I think this is an
:14:39. > :14:44.amazing courtship and it's not going to lead to any kind of seduction.
:14:45. > :14:48.But I think that what has been very interesting is seeing the Prime
:14:49. > :14:54.Minister himself, who seems to be in a rush not only to get the
:14:55. > :14:59.referendum going but to force an election this summer. I think he is
:15:00. > :15:02.now kicking the ball into the long grass. Do you actually think he's
:15:03. > :15:05.doing that or do you think he's going to come back after that summit
:15:06. > :15:09.and say, it's fine, I've got something, let's have a referendum
:15:10. > :15:13.in June. I think we are looking at 2017. Do you agree with that? Do you
:15:14. > :15:17.think it is being kicked into the long grass or do you think this is
:15:18. > :15:18.part of the showmanship of hard work and struggle and he will come back
:15:19. > :15:30.with something he feels he can sell? in it's there is a constant exercise
:15:31. > :15:36.in expectation management. We have to be ready to go as soon as
:15:37. > :15:45.possible. The government want to of the actual we want to keep a number
:15:46. > :15:49.of the voices who quite clearly see the interference at brussels and who
:15:50. > :15:56.are unhappy about it, but they are being kept it does not leave you
:15:57. > :16:08.much time to start a campaign if it is June, or had the support of those
:16:09. > :16:23.Eurosceptic cabinet until the re-1 of the things we have on our side is
:16:24. > :16:28.we are building but you have to you have to that without being in the EU
:16:29. > :16:38.Britain will be a smaller and less significant player on we are quite
:16:39. > :16:42.clear, that to leave the EU, we will do a free-trade deal. We are your's
:16:43. > :16:49.largest market and you do not have to be a political member of the EU
:16:50. > :16:53.to trade with Europe, despite that goes back to my point about the
:16:54. > :16:58.grassroots network. We are building that up, we have got street stalls,
:16:59. > :17:06.we had 32 last weekend and we will have 150 in January have put out 2
:17:07. > :17:16.million leaflets in the on the other side they do not have grassroots
:17:17. > :17:21.support, are there risks to stay people will look at the recent
:17:22. > :17:36.crisis of the euro? We are not part of the euro, but it impacted people
:17:37. > :17:43.will think it could be a risk to I think Scotland if they and with in
:17:44. > :17:56.the EU for trading we are stronger partners, I we are going to showing
:17:57. > :18:03.up in Germany and as do you think people are getting more engaged
:18:04. > :18:09.political arguments and referendums it is really only in the last few
:18:10. > :18:29.have become engaged. Do you think people are getting
:18:30. > :18:36.People like Tim and Cymru and other observers and commentators who are
:18:37. > :18:41.really excited but I'd be the general public is -- Tim Montgomery.
:18:42. > :18:45.Why do you think Theresa May was having lunch with Liam Fox? I think
:18:46. > :18:49.they will be chatting about what is going on. They are being told to
:18:50. > :18:54.keep the primers to's line. Do you thing she is discussing what she can
:18:55. > :18:57.say and do? I can't speak for what Theresa May thinks about this issue.
:18:58. > :19:02.I'm sure she will at the appropriate time. I think we are talking to the
:19:03. > :19:06.Cabinet and we hope that Cabinet members will... Who are you talking
:19:07. > :19:12.to? Tim Montgomery says there are five. What we do see at the moment
:19:13. > :19:16.is that the campaign is slightly shaping up to be an establishment
:19:17. > :19:21.coming out to back staying in the EU at all costs despite there being
:19:22. > :19:24.very few changes, where as those at the grassroots network and people
:19:25. > :19:27.who have seen the interference and cost of Brussels will be on the
:19:28. > :19:33.other side. I'm quite happy if we are on the side of the people rather
:19:34. > :19:37.than the establishment. Do you have a problem Cabinet ministers are only
:19:38. > :19:48.allowed to talk in coded language until this negotiation is completed?
:19:49. > :19:53.Those Cabinet who want to stay in the EU, they are allowed to but on
:19:54. > :20:04.the other side they are being told to keep quiet until the maximum
:20:05. > :20:14.about what is achievable. The Donald Tusk letter said David essentially
:20:15. > :20:30.not much, but the fundamental change he Labour should get a free
:20:31. > :21:07.vote the it is are you going to be on the phone I cannot confess to
:21:08. > :21:10.Now, if I said I was off to a club after the show
:21:11. > :21:12.think my Friday night had started early.
:21:13. > :21:15.But here at Westminster that could also refer to London's
:21:16. > :21:20.to men, and they've played a big role in shaping
:21:21. > :21:23.Giles has been off to the smoking room to find out more.
:21:24. > :21:27.It's worth reflecting that whilst a lot of modern
:21:28. > :21:31.politics is done inside a 19th-century building,
:21:32. > :21:34.Parliament, a lot of it is also done on our
:21:35. > :21:40.So why have I come to the smoking room of the National Liberal Club
:21:41. > :21:43.They don't, obviously, smoke in here any more.
:21:44. > :21:47.Well, because clubs have always had, and to a certain extent still do,
:21:48. > :21:56.There's the Great Fire of 1834, which not only devastates Parliament
:21:57. > :21:59.but for the next 30 years, Parliament is a building site,
:22:00. > :22:02.and you can't run the country from a building site,
:22:03. > :22:04.so a lot of the functions that we now associate
:22:05. > :22:07.with Parliament happen because MPs go in exile into their clubs
:22:08. > :22:11.and they are literally running the country from London clubs.
:22:12. > :22:13.So Parliament's been a building site.
:22:14. > :22:20.Well, Parliament starts to commission club
:22:21. > :22:22.architects, people like Charles Barry, who's best-known
:22:23. > :22:24.for the Reform Club, for the Travellers Club,
:22:25. > :22:26.and they asked for a new Parliamentary building
:22:27. > :22:28.that's basically modelled on a London club,
:22:29. > :22:30.because they've spent 30 years getting used to all the creature
:22:31. > :22:33.comforts and all the conveniences of a London club.
:22:34. > :22:35.So this is why the Parliamentary estate has smoking
:22:36. > :22:40.And have clubs played any role politically
:22:41. > :22:45.The nature of clubs, the nature of their being
:22:46. > :22:48.designed with these small, conspiratorial alcoves,
:22:49. > :22:51.and that element of plausible deniability, as a plotter's
:22:52. > :22:54.paradise, is such that when these sorts of things have happened -
:22:55. > :22:57.and I'm thinking for instance of party leadership
:22:58. > :22:59.campaigns that have been plotted in clubs -
:23:00. > :23:02.but the people involved tend to disclaim them very quickly.
:23:03. > :23:04.The National Liberal Club clearly wears
:23:05. > :23:08.its political colours but today, many members are interested,
:23:09. > :23:12.However, there is a club that was, is and,
:23:13. > :23:16.one imagines, always will be a political beast -
:23:17. > :23:18.the dining room of Torydom on earth, you might say,
:23:19. > :23:24.It was founded for that express purpose.
:23:25. > :23:27.There is a very marked political element and there
:23:28. > :23:32.is a political committee that organises a programme of speakers
:23:33. > :23:38.and policy discussions and very usefully, as far as the Tory Party
:23:39. > :23:41.is concerned, the political committee is responsible
:23:42. > :23:45.for a political fund to help candidates in marginal
:23:46. > :23:49.constituencies during general election campaigns.
:23:50. > :23:52.It might not look it but clubs have modernised.
:23:53. > :23:56.Women may not be on the walls but are full participating
:23:57. > :24:01.And though the hours are more social than serious business,
:24:02. > :24:03.the tradition of political discourse is still
:24:04. > :24:26.They are absolutely beautiful, but are they not just relics of the
:24:27. > :24:29.past? What is wrong with a relic? We should not Botox the London
:24:30. > :24:39.landscape free of all wrinkles and tiny little, strange initiation
:24:40. > :24:45.rites. Those wooden panelled rooms still smell of cigar smoke. They
:24:46. > :24:51.will never get rid of that after all the years of smoking. They are
:24:52. > :24:57.wonderful. But do you think there should be meant only clubs? As long
:24:58. > :25:04.as we can have women only clubs. Have you been to any of these? And
:25:05. > :25:12.one of the best dinners I ever had was at the Beefsteak Club. It was
:25:13. > :25:16.the late Evelyn Waugh who was the guest and she invited me along and
:25:17. > :25:21.we had to sit on a very long table with all the club members in a
:25:22. > :25:26.completely democratic fashion. I was seated next to a minister and over
:25:27. > :25:31.there was a barren something or other and there were actors, it was
:25:32. > :25:35.fantastic. I am sure it was. Political deals were done in these
:25:36. > :25:40.clubs, not so much today. It seems to be a place to socialise with
:25:41. > :25:47.people who think the same sort of thing about politics, but not any
:25:48. > :25:54.more. Do you think it is where politics is done? No, it is not, and
:25:55. > :25:59.yet the influence peddlers peddle their wares and I wonder if maybe
:26:00. > :26:03.David Cameron at the Carlton club overhears somebody topping, a
:26:04. > :26:13.captain of industry may be says Goldman Sachs could come and spend
:26:14. > :26:14.?1 million. Is that right? If you overhear something in a social
:26:15. > :26:17.setting, why not? Now, world leaders have been
:26:18. > :26:20.gathering in Davos in Switzerland this week, and what else
:26:21. > :26:22.would they be discussing than whose According to a survey unveiled
:26:23. > :26:26.at the gathering in the Alps, the answer is Germany, with the UK
:26:27. > :26:29.coming in a respectable third. It's apparently based on a range
:26:30. > :26:32.of factors including cultural influence, entrepreneurship
:26:33. > :26:35.and economic influence. Well, we wanted to find out more,
:26:36. > :26:38.and being ever fond of a cliche we sent the German journalist
:26:39. > :26:59.John Jungclaussen off I am a German living in London and
:27:00. > :27:03.have lived here for many years, but this week I am asking if I have made
:27:04. > :27:08.the wrong choice. A poll has been published which says Germany is the
:27:09. > :27:09.best country in the world. Britain only came in third.
:27:10. > :27:13.Is Germany right to be voted the best country in the world,
:27:14. > :27:18.No, it should be somewhere where it is sunny all
:27:19. > :27:24.Isn't there are around 300 countries in the world?
:27:25. > :27:35.I'll take German beer, maybe notches it up to the top ten.
:27:36. > :27:40.Oh, yeah, they're better than German sausages.
:27:41. > :27:53.But I've grown up with British sausages.
:27:54. > :27:59.As a lorry driver you have travelled through a lot of countries, why is
:28:00. > :28:07.Germany the best country in the world? Because it is very strict.
:28:08. > :28:20.I am glad you've finished the sausage. Were you surprised that
:28:21. > :28:26.Germany came top? At the sausage? No, Germany came top. No, actually.
:28:27. > :28:30.Germany has been in the news for the last few years as a leading force in
:28:31. > :28:37.the European question in the European crisis. Angela Merkel was
:28:38. > :28:39.on time magazine. The migrant prices brought the country into the
:28:40. > :28:46.headlines. It makes sense that people talk about Germany and read
:28:47. > :28:51.about Germany more and talk about it more in everyday news. It is not a
:28:52. > :28:57.surprise. Looking at the factors they included, cultural ones,
:28:58. > :29:03.economic influence. Suddenly an economic influence and
:29:04. > :29:13.entrepreneurship as well. Cultural factors, best in the world? Not only
:29:14. > :29:18.cultural factors, but my Institute publishes its own prosperity index
:29:19. > :29:23.and Germany comes 14 and Britain ranks 15th. But the reason Germany
:29:24. > :29:26.does not do as well on our prosperity index is because you do
:29:27. > :29:31.not have such an entrepreneurial spirit or start-ups. Start-ups are
:29:32. > :29:39.more expensive in Germany than in Britain. We have got more doers and
:29:40. > :29:46.shakers. The flip side to that is of course Germany relies on family run
:29:47. > :29:52.company 's who make Germany the export champion because they produce
:29:53. > :29:57.the goods that the Chinese want. Is it not about manufacturing? The
:29:58. > :29:58.manufacturing prowess of Germany stands out, rather than the get up
:29:59. > :30:07.and go? I agree although if you look at the
:30:08. > :30:14.Volkswagen scandal about diesel emissions, Germany can also do
:30:15. > :30:18.software. I tell you what I thought was very interesting, and I think
:30:19. > :30:26.that this is really Angela Merkel's incredible gift to her people... I
:30:27. > :30:30.think there is now the good German. The German people have now started
:30:31. > :30:36.to feel really proud, even though they have all their headaches and
:30:37. > :30:42.they are wondering, are we right in being so welcoming? But boy, oh,
:30:43. > :30:46.boy, have they crafted a new national character and it is the
:30:47. > :30:49.noble German, rather than the nutty German. Do you think they have been
:30:50. > :30:56.able to deal with the past in a way that they can move on? Absolutely.
:30:57. > :31:03.And when I compare it to what we are doing to ourselves with these road
:31:04. > :31:09.stretches and hurt Celso drew because of a colonial empire, I
:31:10. > :31:16.think Germany is the way to go. Every country needs an inspiring
:31:17. > :31:21.figure at the top but it is also history. I think the Fuhrer has now
:31:22. > :31:26.finally vanished in the mists of history. It is the next-generation.
:31:27. > :31:29.The people who are about to get interested in politics now don't
:31:30. > :31:36.even remember the fall of the wall, which is 25 years ago, so it really
:31:37. > :31:41.is... Moving back. The news that Germany is now the best country in
:31:42. > :31:44.the world - enough to draw you back home? Maybe for the summer holidays.
:31:45. > :31:48.But you're staying put in Britain? I think I might stay here. Thank you
:31:49. > :31:51.very much. It's time now to find out
:31:52. > :31:53.the answer to our quiz. The question was, which particular
:31:54. > :31:56.part of Jeremy Corbyn's life His alleged motorcycle holiday
:31:57. > :32:14.through Eastern Europe? Please tell me that it is the ride
:32:15. > :32:21.with Diane Abbott in Eastern Europe! Oh, I think it is! I think I've seen
:32:22. > :32:27.the picture of the motorcycle. I love it! Does that mean you're going
:32:28. > :32:34.to be getting tickets, Cristina? You bet. I'll invite both of you! I
:32:35. > :32:39.would like to see the production of the manhole cover story, how that
:32:40. > :32:43.could be staged. That will be the sequels, especially for you.
:32:44. > :32:47.Coming up in a moment, it's our regular look at what's been
:32:48. > :32:51.For now it's time to say goodbye to Cristina Odone.
:32:52. > :32:56.For the next half an hour, we're going to be focusing on Europe.
:32:57. > :32:59.We'll be discussing the migrant crisis still gripping the EU
:33:00. > :33:01.and the fraught relationship between Brussels and the new
:33:02. > :33:04.First, though, here's Ellie Price with our guide to the latest
:33:05. > :33:13.In the week the World Economic Forum named Germany as the best country
:33:14. > :33:15.in the world to live in, the Chancellor, Angela Merkel,
:33:16. > :33:19.faced more pressure over immigration policy.
:33:20. > :33:22.The EU lifted sanctions on Iran after the International Atomic
:33:23. > :33:26.Energy Agency certified it had restricted its sensitive nuclear
:33:27. > :33:30.Multilateral and national economic and financial
:33:31. > :33:35.sanctions related to Iran's nuclear programme are lifted.
:33:36. > :33:37.The EU steel industry cannot rely on public funds
:33:38. > :33:40.to survive, says the Competition Commissioner, while not ruling out
:33:41. > :33:44.further anti-dumping measures aimed at China.
:33:45. > :33:47.The French president Francois Hollande set out to ?2
:33:48. > :33:50.billion job creation plan in an attempt to lift France out
:33:51. > :33:53.of what he called a state of economic and social emergency.
:33:54. > :33:56.The EU criminal database is to include non-EU
:33:57. > :33:58.citizens in an attempt to reduce the risk of another
:33:59. > :34:03.And in the UK, 10 million homes received a pro-Europe campaign
:34:04. > :34:07.Leave campaigners kindly offered to return
:34:08. > :34:16.And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined
:34:17. > :34:18.by the Conservative MEP Timothy Kirkhope and the UKIP MEP
:34:19. > :34:30.Let's talk first about one of those stories mentioned there,
:34:31. > :34:33.and that's campaigning beginning to heat up ahead of Britain's
:34:34. > :34:39.How is looking to you now? The Prime Minister is in no hurry. Manuel
:34:40. > :34:43.Valls says there is still a lot of work to do. I think there is a lot
:34:44. > :34:46.of work to do but I think the Prime Minister has made a lot of progress.
:34:47. > :34:51.I'm talking to people in Europe every day and the feedback I'm
:34:52. > :34:54.getting is very positive. On which areas? Particularly in relation to
:34:55. > :34:59.the question of freedom of movement. That is a tricky one and that has to
:35:00. > :35:04.be sorted out and I think he is making progress in his discussions.
:35:05. > :35:07.Equally well on the question of the terms, like ever closer union. I
:35:08. > :35:11.think that is making progress in getting the right kind of terms and
:35:12. > :35:16.the right kind of agreements. Which way will you vote? I will see what
:35:17. > :35:19.the Prime Minister comes back with. If he can give us a positive
:35:20. > :35:23.outcome, and I'm pretty confident, more confident than I was, I will
:35:24. > :35:29.support him and I will support remaining in the EU. As it stands
:35:30. > :35:32.now, you would vote out? I wouldn't vote out. I will wait to see what
:35:33. > :35:37.the terms are but I'm very positive in my view. It is not just what
:35:38. > :35:41.Britain can get out of this deal, it is what happens from then on. If the
:35:42. > :35:45.other countries in Europe are going to take part in the process the
:35:46. > :35:50.prime ministers negotiating, that's got to be good news for Europe as
:35:51. > :35:54.well as for ourselves. If people like Timothy Kirkhope have been
:35:55. > :35:57.persuaded by this negotiation process, you're not going to see
:35:58. > :36:02.many Conservatives like him voting for Brexit. Sitting on the fence is
:36:03. > :36:07.bad for your help. I remember asking you last year why David Cameron
:36:08. > :36:10.isn't actually negotiating fundamental free movement and you
:36:11. > :36:13.said it was silly. We are hearing lots of Conservatives saying one
:36:14. > :36:17.thing at home and going into the European Parliament and saying a
:36:18. > :36:23.different thing. He is not calling for free movement to be reformed or
:36:24. > :36:27.ending the rights of people who have been attracted by this migrant
:36:28. > :36:30.crisis to come to the UK. The ?20 billion we give to the EU every
:36:31. > :36:35.year, nothing about stopping that. There is no change. It is just
:36:36. > :36:40.shadow-boxing. Do we think it is owing to be in June? Sooner the
:36:41. > :36:45.better. Sooner the better but Tim is wrong about something he says. Do
:36:46. > :36:49.you know how it take to get a passport in Germany? Eight years.
:36:50. > :36:53.Ten years in Italy. Five years here. You just don't know your facts. That
:36:54. > :36:57.hasn't stopped the mass immigration... We are going to talk
:36:58. > :37:00.about immigration in just a moment so you can hold your fire.
:37:01. > :37:03.The EU is in the grip of a migrant crisis and it's not
:37:04. > :37:07.This week the International Monetary Fund predicted that 1.3 million
:37:08. > :37:08.migrants could arrive in Europe every year.
:37:09. > :37:11.French Prime Minister Manuel Valls has warned that Europe's migration
:37:12. > :37:14.crisis poses a direct threat to the future of the EU.
:37:15. > :37:17.And there's evidence that Schengen, that's the EU's passport-free travel
:37:18. > :37:21.zone, of which the UK isn't a member, is already unravelling
:37:22. > :37:25.as member states reintroduce border controls to try to stem the flow
:37:26. > :37:29.of people fleeing conflict zones in the Middle East and elsewhere.
:37:30. > :37:33.In August last year Hungary built a fence along the border
:37:34. > :37:35.with non-Schengen country Serbia, blocking a railway line used
:37:36. > :37:44.In September, Austrian authorities imposed border controls at the main
:37:45. > :37:49.Later that month, the German government imposed border
:37:50. > :37:54.The next day, Slovakia placed 220 police officers along its borders
:37:55. > :38:00.And the Netherlands temporarily reinstated border
:38:01. > :38:07.In October, Hungary built a razor-wire fence along
:38:08. > :38:16.And at the beginning of this year, Sweden introduced checks
:38:17. > :38:19.on the Oresund bridge, which links the country with Denmark.
:38:20. > :38:26.While Denmark imposed border controls with Germany.
:38:27. > :38:35.We are joined by a Labour MEP and my other guests are still here. Showing
:38:36. > :38:38.is dead, isn't it? It is in deep trouble and Manuel Valls was
:38:39. > :38:42.absolutely right to say that this is an existential crisis and is a deep
:38:43. > :38:45.crisis. The problem with what he's saying is that he is a Prime
:38:46. > :38:49.Minister of a big country and it is only the big countries that have the
:38:50. > :38:53.assets to do something about it. When he says it's the EU, the EU has
:38:54. > :39:02.limited assets to do anything, institutions, that is. They are
:39:03. > :39:06.minimal assets. It is not a big agency but a bunch of civilians
:39:07. > :39:10.doing a job and minimal budgets. It is the big countries that can do
:39:11. > :39:15.something. Whatever your view on the migration crisis, whether you think
:39:16. > :39:20.Germany was a pull factor, whether you generous about the migration
:39:21. > :39:26.crisis, in the end, to deal with this, to have a tough external
:39:27. > :39:30.border, for example the border agency, to have relocation, whatever
:39:31. > :39:35.your view it is the countries like France, the big countries, who will
:39:36. > :39:39.have to do something now to create integrity on our external border and
:39:40. > :39:42.to create an organised and compassionate response. There is no
:39:43. > :39:46.other way out of this. Even if Germany had not done what it has
:39:47. > :39:51.done, we would have had a global crisis. Would it have been on this
:39:52. > :39:55.scale? Let me tell you the reason why. 85 the centre of referees in
:39:56. > :39:58.Turkey are living outside camps. Even if Turkey was helping us now,
:39:59. > :40:04.they would not be able to control the situation. Would quotas have
:40:05. > :40:09.been a more efficient way of working through this migration crisis? Lets,
:40:10. > :40:13.for argument's sake, say we would still have had large numbers of
:40:14. > :40:19.people coming from the Middle East and parts of North Africa... Quotas
:40:20. > :40:23.would have meant there would have been regulated system, that each
:40:24. > :40:29.country in the EU would have taken a proportionate number of migrants and
:40:30. > :40:32.then both of the Dublin agreement, where refugees have to seek asylum
:40:33. > :40:36.in the country they arrive in, and Schengen would have continued to
:40:37. > :40:39.function. The key point is the renegotiation of Dublin, of the
:40:40. > :40:42.agreement, but retaining the basic principles we seem to have lost. I
:40:43. > :40:47.don't know whether Claude agrees with Yvette Cooper's remarks that
:40:48. > :40:50.Schengen should be disbanded but all I'm saying is that I don't think so.
:40:51. > :40:54.I think the key thing is to get the nuts and bolts right. The nuts and
:40:55. > :40:58.bolts and the principles applying to people who arrive at the external
:40:59. > :41:02.borders of the EU. We are not part of Schengen but the external borders
:41:03. > :41:07.are important to us. Can Greece and Italy coach with those numbers? They
:41:08. > :41:10.will need more resources and that is part of what we would propose. They
:41:11. > :41:14.need help but once they have had help, there should be no question
:41:15. > :41:18.about maintaining that principle that the first safe country that
:41:19. > :41:20.people arrive that has to be the country that processes applications,
:41:21. > :41:24.otherwise it becomes chaotic and that is what has been going on, I'm
:41:25. > :41:28.afraid, with a lack of resolve by some countries. Do you agree with
:41:29. > :41:31.that principle that the Dublin convention should stay put and
:41:32. > :41:35.should be reinforced? You should claim asylum in the first safe place
:41:36. > :41:38.you get to. If your houses on fire, you don't go looking down the
:41:39. > :41:42.street, you go to the first has to call the emergency services. Is that
:41:43. > :41:46.practical when you have Greece with people arriving in numbers they
:41:47. > :41:54.have? The German chancellor said, come come all. These countries...
:41:55. > :41:57.Germany should pay up. Do you agree with Yvette Cooper that Schengen
:41:58. > :42:01.should be dismantled? That her view. If you dismantle it, you need
:42:02. > :42:05.something in its place. There is broad agreement about Dublin because
:42:06. > :42:09.the commission is now consulting about scrapping Dublin and replacing
:42:10. > :42:13.it with Dublin four. There is broad agreement because it is natural to
:42:14. > :42:17.claim in the first country you arrive in. If you take that away,
:42:18. > :42:20.you need to replace it with something pretty sensible. At the
:42:21. > :42:24.moment, the commission are not coming up with that. And Schengen,
:42:25. > :42:28.what Yvette Cooper is saying is that it is now de facto dying but these
:42:29. > :42:31.freedoms are at the heart of Europe and they matter and there is no
:42:32. > :42:37.point in her saying it is dead without saying what we replace it
:42:38. > :42:41.with. Without Schengen, is that the beginning of the end of the EU,
:42:42. > :42:48.which is what Manuel Valls said? No, I disagree entirely about that. That
:42:49. > :42:51.is what Tim wants. The point about Schengen is it has always had within
:42:52. > :42:55.it the ability to reintroduce borders when there has been pressure
:42:56. > :42:59.or an emergency. That is what some countries are doing. The key point,
:43:00. > :43:04.we come back to it, the nuts and bolts. We are all feeding our ideas
:43:05. > :43:07.for the new Dublin agreement. That is coming in until March so I'm
:43:08. > :43:11.surprised that there is so much speculation about saying what Dublin
:43:12. > :43:14.is going to be stop it isn't decided at all and I'm convinced that that
:43:15. > :43:18.basic principle of people being dealt with at the first safe country
:43:19. > :43:22.will be maintained and that is the key to it all. But even if Germany
:43:23. > :43:27.and an Le Merkle hadn't said refugees, you are all welcome, would
:43:28. > :43:33.we be in a totally different situation? -- Angela Merkel. There
:43:34. > :43:37.has been movement across different European states will border controls
:43:38. > :43:40.to be reinstated but there is a borders crisis in the European
:43:41. > :43:43.Union, there was a crisis of free movement and I'm still waiting to
:43:44. > :43:48.hear why David Cameron will not let sheet free movement. Why is heating
:43:49. > :43:56.with benefits? You called renegotiating free movement stupid.
:43:57. > :44:01.It is a basic principle which assists us in normal circumstances
:44:02. > :44:05.through our trade and our exchange of services and skills. It is vital
:44:06. > :44:08.for the British interests that we have freedom of movement. But should
:44:09. > :44:12.it be suspended while this migration crisis is going on? There will be
:44:13. > :44:16.many people who say, once these migrants are within Schengen, and I
:44:17. > :44:20.don't know how many years it takes for migrants or refugees to gain
:44:21. > :44:23.some sort of citizenship, they are free to move anywhere else. Refugees
:44:24. > :44:28.do not have freedom of movement. Please remember that. All these
:44:29. > :44:34.refugees that Ukip are frightening us about, the scaremongering
:44:35. > :44:39.nonsense are that is not the same thing. They cannot have free
:44:40. > :44:43.movement now, the refugees, so that is not an issue. Do you think Manuel
:44:44. > :44:47.Valls has inflamed the situation with what he's said, because
:44:48. > :44:52.inaccuracies about the status of refugees and migrants and who can
:44:53. > :44:56.actually move, not only within Schengen but beyond, then starts to
:44:57. > :45:01.get into the media narrative? He is in my party and I will see, yes he
:45:02. > :45:05.has. There is no point in stating a problem and not saying what the
:45:06. > :45:09.solution is. On Monday we have an Amsterdam council. You should be
:45:10. > :45:13.sending ministers there to deal with the solution. This was an example
:45:14. > :45:17.where refugees at the moment have a certain status, they don't have
:45:18. > :45:19.immediate free movement. What the member states with the assets and
:45:20. > :45:23.resources need to do with the problem we currently have is get to
:45:24. > :45:27.work and sort out what we do about the relocation and the external
:45:28. > :45:33.border because that is not going to go away. The other issues - Dublin,
:45:34. > :45:37.Schengen - get some settlement on this. Irrespective of what we think
:45:38. > :45:40.about what Germany did or did not do because we have a problem right now.
:45:41. > :45:44.The big countries need to stop saying what the accidental problem
:45:45. > :45:48.is. And start coming up with solutions.
:45:49. > :45:51.Relations between the EU and Poland, the sixth largest economy
:45:52. > :45:53.in the union, have soured over controversial media
:45:54. > :45:56.and judicial reforms introduced by the new government in Warsaw.
:45:57. > :45:58.The Eurosceptic Law and Justice Party swept to power
:45:59. > :46:04.And this week the Polish Prime Minister was called to Strasbourg
:46:05. > :46:06.to explain herself to MEPs at their monthly plenary meeting.
:46:07. > :46:14.What could possibly make you think Poland's new Prime Minister doesn't
:46:15. > :46:19.Prime Minister, would you like the EU...
:46:20. > :46:24.Would you like the EU to butt out, Prime Minister?
:46:25. > :46:27.In Poland, there have been protests because the government's sacked
:46:28. > :46:30.loads of staff from the state broadcaster and it's appointed
:46:31. > :46:35.a load of sympathetic new judges to the constitutional courts.
:46:36. > :46:38.The European Commission's now investigating, using new powers
:46:39. > :46:42.to check that member states are upholding the rule of law.
:46:43. > :46:45.Let me show you just how heated this whole
:46:46. > :46:50.Look at the front cover of this Polish news magazine,
:46:51. > :46:53.which shows various senior figures from the EU,
:46:54. > :46:55.like the president of the parliament Martin Schulz and Chancellor Merkel
:46:56. > :47:01.In the Strasbourg chamber, Beata Szydlo used history to make
:47:02. > :47:07.TRANSLATION: Poland's history has been a troubled history.
:47:08. > :47:10.Our fathers and grandfathers gave them blood for freedom,
:47:11. > :47:15.for us to be part of a united Europe, but they also spilt blood
:47:16. > :47:18.for the freedom of other European nations.
:47:19. > :47:24.to speak our own opinions, to fight for the right
:47:25. > :47:30.We achieved that and we are not going to have that taken away.
:47:31. > :47:33.Her main tormentor was the leader of the liberal group,
:47:34. > :47:37.Guy Verhofstadt, who raised the spectre of Vladimir Putin.
:47:38. > :47:39.The inconvenient truth here is that Mr Putin doesn't
:47:40. > :47:48.He wants to destroy European unity and what's happening
:47:49. > :47:54.While the man from the Commission tried to sound calm.
:47:55. > :47:57.All members of the European Union have
:47:58. > :48:03.signed, of their own free will, and ratified by their national
:48:04. > :48:07.parliaments, European treaties, thus entering into obligations
:48:08. > :48:14.as far as maintaining the rule of law is concerned.
:48:15. > :48:16.But what about law and justice's parliamentary allies,
:48:17. > :48:21.It is quite strange that they choose this
:48:22. > :48:25.For example, when countries broke the stability and growth pact,
:48:26. > :48:31.When countries like Greece do not play their role in defending
:48:32. > :48:34.the external borders of the Schengen under the agreements they signed,
:48:35. > :48:36.they don't come in, but suddenly you have more
:48:37. > :48:39.Eurosceptic government and they decide to use this procedure.
:48:40. > :48:44.For supporters of the Polish government
:48:45. > :48:47.outside, some who'd travelled by bus for 16 hours for this,
:48:48. > :48:51.it's a question of where power lies - with the US institutions
:48:52. > :48:54.or with the individual member states.
:48:55. > :48:59.If the Commission rules the Polish Prime
:49:00. > :49:01.Minister's acting undemocratically, she faces the prospect
:49:02. > :49:04.of losing her right to vote at future summits.
:49:05. > :49:07.Oh, and she still wouldn't answer my questions -
:49:08. > :49:16.Prime Minister, did you have a good trip to Strasbourg?
:49:17. > :49:25.Well done for trying, Adam. Doesn't the EU have a right to investigate
:49:26. > :49:30.and look at what is going on in Poland? It does, it can have its say
:49:31. > :49:33.like any democratic chamber, but there is something untoward about
:49:34. > :49:37.dragging an elected Prime Minister to the parliament and put them on
:49:38. > :49:42.the naughty step and say, do not do this. The European Union has had its
:49:43. > :49:48.troubles with democracy. It has asked companies to vote again. Maybe
:49:49. > :49:52.it should get its house in order. All EU member states have signed up
:49:53. > :49:57.to the idea that the commission can investigate whether countries are
:49:58. > :50:01.upholding the rule of law and the Law And Justice Party in Poland are
:50:02. > :50:08.threatening that. Does the EU have a right to do what it is doing? The
:50:09. > :50:13.commission has a right to investigate any allegations about
:50:14. > :50:19.treaties. You support it? No, what I say is Poland is one of the most
:50:20. > :50:23.lively democracies now and since it through of the Soviet Union and it
:50:24. > :50:29.has developed its politics in a lively way. The last party in power
:50:30. > :50:33.did not like the new party getting a majority and ever since then they
:50:34. > :50:34.have been trying to cause problems. I do not know what the answer is,
:50:35. > :50:39.all I know is the Polish government I do not know what the answer is,
:50:40. > :50:43.have very good reasons for doing what they have been doing and I
:50:44. > :50:47.think the commission should investigate, but the European
:50:48. > :50:50.Parliament, which is taken upon itself all these clever
:50:51. > :50:53.investigations based on a political approach, I think that is not the
:50:54. > :50:59.right forum. The reports are that the Law And
:51:00. > :51:08.Justice Party has replaced judges and executives and broadcasters to
:51:09. > :51:13.restore values. Is that I worry? That is up to Poland. No one else
:51:14. > :51:20.has a mandate to interfere. If the Polish people do not like it, they
:51:21. > :51:26.will vote. But it stuffed the court with its own appointees. Someone is
:51:27. > :51:29.saying they are trying to read the balance because the media and the
:51:30. > :51:36.courts were packed with people from the previous government. There is
:51:37. > :51:41.nothing wrong with that? I watched the debate and many of my colleagues
:51:42. > :51:48.feel the commission has a role in this, as it did with Hungary in
:51:49. > :51:55.addressing alleged breaches, we can do it and it is there, but it does
:51:56. > :52:01.backfire when you have this enormous theatre. She got the last word. She
:52:02. > :52:04.put her hand up and said, Mr President, can I have the last word
:52:05. > :52:10.for the sake of Poland and my nation? Timmermann 's made a great
:52:11. > :52:19.play for the treaties and the rule of law and these breaches are of
:52:20. > :52:24.concern... Alleged breaches. Alleged breaches. She ended up looking like
:52:25. > :52:30.the heroine, they ended up looking like the bad days. Does it make you
:52:31. > :52:34.feel queasy? It is probably not the way to do it to happen this court of
:52:35. > :52:41.public opinion where you target the country. When they got Alexis
:52:42. > :52:47.Tsipras it was like a show trial. They were waiting to take a swing at
:52:48. > :52:55.him. They all get on their high horse. Does it have the desired
:52:56. > :53:00.effect? It has the opposite effect. She left happily and she came
:53:01. > :53:03.willingly. She was treated with respect. The arguments were
:53:04. > :53:15.powerful, you sign up to these things. It was not a deviation from
:53:16. > :53:19.the law. She volunteered to come. That is the point. And then we had
:53:20. > :53:24.then might as well. The problem with all of this is you have many laws
:53:25. > :53:32.which could be breaching treaties, so we have to get away from the
:53:33. > :53:37.commission examining this and the theatre where it backfires. What
:53:38. > :53:41.happens now? The commission investigates. Meanwhile, the
:53:42. > :53:44.parliament will be going around making allegations with certain
:53:45. > :53:52.political groups about Poland, it is on their agenda. Poland will not be
:53:53. > :53:58.able to change things in the meantime? No, the European Union
:53:59. > :53:59.will complain and moan about it, but then they will find some other
:54:00. > :54:03.bogeyman. Now it's time for the latest
:54:04. > :54:14.in our series Meet the Neighbours. Today we're looking at one
:54:15. > :54:17.of the newer EU members states, Here's Adam again, and he's been
:54:18. > :54:21.sizing up the Romanian The Ceausescus, the husband and wife
:54:22. > :54:39.dictator duo who ruled Romania Now it is the country's parliament,
:54:40. > :54:47.the biggest in the world apparently, They rolled out the red
:54:48. > :54:54.carpet for me after Romanian MPs gave us
:54:55. > :54:59.permission to film. The first thing you notice
:55:00. > :55:01.is it is like a museum They got this idea of having these
:55:02. > :55:10.beautiful lamps and once they were visiting France in the 70s
:55:11. > :55:16.and they visited Versailles and Madam Ceausescu was impressed
:55:17. > :55:19.and she thought it would be great And how about his and hers
:55:20. > :55:30.matching staircases? The steps were smaller than usual
:55:31. > :55:32.because the Ceausescus were unusually short and liked
:55:33. > :55:35.to make a big entrance. Those curtains weigh
:55:36. > :55:38.a tonne you know. In this place you can
:55:39. > :55:41.walk for miles. All that marble makes
:55:42. > :55:47.this the heaviest Parliament is not sitting
:55:48. > :55:50.today so the corridors are pretty quiet, but Romania
:55:51. > :55:53.went through a political A fire in a Bucharest nightclub
:55:54. > :55:58.which claimed 16 lives led to the resignation
:55:59. > :56:00.of the Prime Minister Talking of epic, check
:56:01. > :56:09.out the ballroom. There is room for a symphony
:56:10. > :56:14.orchestra and you can get a sports As a Romanian person how do
:56:15. > :56:19.you feel about this building The first thing, we didn't need such
:56:20. > :56:29.a building in those days. It was built with a great
:56:30. > :56:32.effort, so that is what I need to appreciate myself,
:56:33. > :56:36.the effort of the people who have worked with this building,
:56:37. > :56:40.as there were more than a million people involved in
:56:41. > :56:44.this grand project. I should say the urban myth is that
:56:45. > :56:47.Ceausescu wanted this skylight to open so his helicopter
:56:48. > :56:51.could land in here. If he couldn't escape that way,
:56:52. > :56:54.there was always the spooky Is it true that down
:56:55. > :56:58.here there is a nuclear bunker? Yes, it is true, not
:56:59. > :57:01.only one but two of Sadly Top Gear beat us to it,
:57:02. > :57:06.they staged a race down And here is our final stop,
:57:07. > :57:12.the grand balcony with a specially lowered parapet so that Ceausescu
:57:13. > :57:15.looked nice and tall when he addressed
:57:16. > :57:17.the Romanian people Of course he never did that
:57:18. > :57:21.because his regime collapsed before this massive
:57:22. > :57:36.building could be finished. That was Adam. That building is
:57:37. > :57:42.enormous. Do we underestimate how bad the histories of some of these
:57:43. > :57:46.newer members of the EU have been? How difficult it has been for them
:57:47. > :57:50.to come into a club where there are countries like Britain, France and
:57:51. > :57:55.Germany. But the interesting thing is to see them recreating their
:57:56. > :58:01.history. I have noticed that. People talk about the EU becoming a single
:58:02. > :58:05.block, but as long as you have got countries like Romania, Poland and
:58:06. > :58:09.Czechoslovakia coming in, throwing of Russian history and creating a
:58:10. > :58:14.real history of their own, a pride in their country, that is a good
:58:15. > :58:19.safeguard. Is it realistic to have countries that are so wide apart
:58:20. > :58:27.where the disparity seems to be so huge, not just in economic terms,
:58:28. > :58:31.but in cultural terms? I cannot imagine the horrors of living under
:58:32. > :58:35.communism will stop anything we have got now is better than what they
:58:36. > :58:41.went through. If the people want in these countries to join the euro,
:58:42. > :58:45.that is for them, it is for the people to decide. Variety is a good
:58:46. > :58:49.and positive thing about the EU. That is all we have got time for.
:58:50. > :59:10.From all of us here, goodbye. Celebrate a country
:59:11. > :59:12.4,000 years in the making. Let your New Year start with a bang
:59:13. > :59:18.and visit an explosive new China.