:00:39. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.Would leaving the EU lead to a decade of uncertainty?
:00:46. > :00:48.That's what the Government claims and it's released a series
:00:49. > :00:52.of documents to prove it, warning of protracted negotiations
:00:53. > :00:54.on a number of issues including the status of British citizens
:00:55. > :01:01.Vote Leave dismisses the claims as scaremongering.
:01:02. > :01:04.Nearly a million jobs to go in the retail sector over the next
:01:05. > :01:08.decade, according to industry experts.
:01:09. > :01:11.Our Ellie discovers she's a bit of a book worm as she delves
:01:12. > :01:15.into the contents of the House of Commons library.
:01:16. > :01:20.And our Adam's been investigating famous political meal deals.
:01:21. > :01:24.Europe was on the menu here at the Dorchester Hotel
:01:25. > :01:26.during the 1975 referendum because Labour and Tory inners
:01:27. > :01:29.would meet here for secret breakfasts.
:01:30. > :01:32.It was a serve-yourself buffet, so there would be no waiters,
:01:33. > :01:45.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, two
:01:46. > :01:50.Former Environment Secretary, Conservative MP, Owen Patterson,
:01:51. > :01:52.and former Shadow Europe Minister, Labour's Emma Reynolds.
:01:53. > :02:00.Now first today, a touch of glamour and to the Oscars which turned
:02:01. > :02:09.Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome your host,
:02:10. > :02:32.Man, I counted at least 15 black people on that montage!
:02:33. > :02:39.Well, I'm here at the Academy Awards.
:02:40. > :02:46.Otherwise known as the white people's choice awards.
:02:47. > :02:51.You realise, if they nominated host, I wouldn't even get this job!
:02:52. > :02:53.Thank you all for this amazing award tonight.
:02:54. > :02:56.Let us not take this planet for granted.
:02:57. > :03:14.I stand here tonight as a proud gay man and I hope we can all stand
:03:15. > :03:22.This year, in the in memoriam package, there's just going to be
:03:23. > :03:25.black people that were shot by the cops on their way
:03:26. > :03:47.# Till it happens to you, you won't know how I feel #.
:03:48. > :03:55.Do you embrace this new political age at the Oscars? Why not. Chris
:03:56. > :03:59.Rock is an incredibly funny comedian, I heard somebody say this
:04:00. > :04:03.morning who had been there that some of the jokes were a bit close to the
:04:04. > :04:08.bone and they felt you couldn't laugh and you felt that just
:04:09. > :04:13.watching him. But why shouldn't movie stars and others did out
:04:14. > :04:17.messages about climate change, gay rights, child abuse? It is very
:04:18. > :04:22.powerful because people looked up to them in this age of celebrity. But
:04:23. > :04:25.it made you feel uncomfortable at that sort of event to have those
:04:26. > :04:30.quite hard-core messages, certainly that sort of event to have those
:04:31. > :04:37.from this rock? I had not seen it direct like that -- from Chris Rock.
:04:38. > :04:41.It might have an impact on the people making films.
:04:42. > :04:45.It might have an impact on the people you choose the Oscars only
:04:46. > :04:49.work on what they are given, it is not just those in the judging panel
:04:50. > :04:55.scum it is those who put the films together so it might have an impact
:04:56. > :05:03.across the industry -- so it is those. There might be people who
:05:04. > :05:06.just say these are glib comments, they don't
:05:07. > :05:10.just say these are glib comments, anything serious. Why shouldn't they
:05:11. > :05:13.have a view on politics? One of the reasons it has become more political
:05:14. > :05:18.is because they're obviously weren't any lack nominees for the second
:05:19. > :05:25.year running. Idris Elba came to Parliament a few weeks ago and it
:05:26. > :05:29.relates to what Owen was saying, the people writing scripts and films
:05:30. > :05:36.should think about creating roles that are not just for white people.
:05:37. > :05:42.And he was saying that the problem was getting these roles. To break
:05:43. > :05:46.through the glass ceiling it takes people making the films to start
:05:47. > :05:48.thinking about these things. Let's see if it changes next year.
:05:49. > :05:53.The question for today is, who is advising Jeremy Corbyn's
:05:54. > :05:56.Former Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis?
:05:57. > :06:01.Or Chinese Finance Minister Lou Jiwei?
:06:02. > :06:04.At the end of the show, Emma and Owen will give us
:06:05. > :06:11.This morning the Government warned that a vote to leave to EU
:06:12. > :06:14.could lead to a "decade of uncertainty".
:06:15. > :06:17.The Government's first official analysis claims the UK would be
:06:18. > :06:23.unlikely to negotiate its exit within the two-year timetable
:06:24. > :06:28.and that it could take the UK ten years to extricate itself.
:06:29. > :06:31.It suggests other countries could push for concessions if the UK
:06:32. > :06:36.It says a new agreement on trade might require ratification by other
:06:37. > :06:41.The report claims that this uncertainty would have an impact
:06:42. > :06:46.on "financial markets, investment, and the value of the pound".
:06:47. > :06:49.It also warns that the rights of 2 million British expats to work
:06:50. > :06:54.and access services in EU countries might not be guaranteed.
:06:55. > :06:58.But Commons leader Chris Grayling, who is campaigning for Britain
:06:59. > :07:02.to leave the EU, said the ten-year claim was "ludicrous".
:07:03. > :07:11.He accused the Government of running a "relentless campaign of fear".
:07:12. > :07:19.Do you agree with that assessment, a ten year period of uncertainty if we
:07:20. > :07:24.vote to leave? The truth is we don't know. Switzerland are still trying
:07:25. > :07:30.to negotiate better access to the single market which they don't have
:07:31. > :07:34.that unfettered access, being outside. They had to negotiate all
:07:35. > :07:39.sorts of agreements with different member states. I think it is in our
:07:40. > :07:47.interest to stay in, economically, and I think it is right to point at
:07:48. > :07:51.the risk of leaving. I think the government is right to do an
:07:52. > :07:55.analysis of what it might mean and I think there would be a lot of
:07:56. > :08:01.uncertainty. The pound last week dropped to its lowest value for
:08:02. > :08:05.seven years because of the uncertainty of the referendum and
:08:06. > :08:11.fears of the UK perhaps leaving and that underlines what might happen.
:08:12. > :08:14.One of the sections in the assessment is uncertainty during the
:08:15. > :08:20.negotiating period which could be two years after the date of the
:08:21. > :08:24.referendum result. It could have an impact on financial markets,
:08:25. > :08:28.investment and the value of the pound and on the wide economy. Is
:08:29. > :08:35.there anything in that that is not true? I think this operation via is
:08:36. > :08:42.reaching hysterical heights. But is it not true? On day one, nothing
:08:43. > :08:47.changes, we are still full members on June 24 and any sensible
:08:48. > :08:50.government would begin a programme of serious discussion with our
:08:51. > :08:57.neighbours as to what the final outcome might be. There would be
:08:58. > :09:01.months of negotiation going through carefully what sort of arrangement
:09:02. > :09:06.we would end up with. At that point I would suggest, if you trigger
:09:07. > :09:12.article 50 which gives you a legally binding two-year period, but the
:09:13. > :09:18.point is, if our neighbours are as awful as the government say, why are
:09:19. > :09:22.we staying in anyway? Our neighbours do huge trade with a scum there are
:09:23. > :09:28.5 million Europeans whose job depend on sales to the UK, a million
:09:29. > :09:31.Germans alone. We send 2.6 million car engines are broad and most come
:09:32. > :09:36.back in the finished products. They would want to do a deal. Angela
:09:37. > :09:42.Merkel will not want to infuriate German workers whose jobs depend on
:09:43. > :09:46.it. Everything continues, the current rules continue, we continue
:09:47. > :09:50.as full members and all existing treaties continue. If you take
:09:51. > :09:54.Czechoslovakia with the velvet divorce, that went off smoothly and
:09:55. > :09:57.there is no reason that should not happen. We will come onto the sort
:09:58. > :10:04.of deal the UK could negotiate but it is true that if on June 24 Brit
:10:05. > :10:14.in notifies and triggers Article 50, from that point nothing changes --
:10:15. > :10:18.Britain. The pre-existing treaties and obligations will not cease until
:10:19. > :10:25.the new negotiation is underway. The best way to keep those conditions is
:10:26. > :10:28.to stay in. There is a big inconsistency on the Eurosceptics
:10:29. > :10:33.part. They say that if we stay in we will always be losers even though
:10:34. > :10:37.your own longest serving Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher forged
:10:38. > :10:42.ahead with the single market, one of the most successful things about the
:10:43. > :10:46.EU, and Tony Blair created the conditions for enlargement and
:10:47. > :10:49.pushed ahead successfully for that. Somehow the Eurosceptics are
:10:50. > :10:54.pessimistic about our role in the EU, working together, when we are
:10:55. > :10:58.often the winners. But if we were to come out, they think they could have
:10:59. > :11:03.everything they want without having to abide by any of the rules or
:11:04. > :11:09.conditions. Norway abides by all of the rules and they are a rule taker,
:11:10. > :11:12.they abide by the roles of the single market, by the free movement
:11:13. > :11:17.of people and they had to pay into the EU budget to get access to the
:11:18. > :11:22.single market. Let's not pretend that this would be a cost free
:11:23. > :11:25.option. Not to say that we could not negotiate a better deal if that was
:11:26. > :11:30.the case. Let's look at the issue uncertainty. Already, as Emma
:11:31. > :11:36.alluded to, the financial markets are jittery about Brexit and the
:11:37. > :11:41.pound did slump against the dollar last week. It could also lead to
:11:42. > :11:46.businesses, some of whom have stated they would hold onto investment
:11:47. > :11:50.decisions and wait until that two-year period was over before
:11:51. > :11:54.deciding where to perhaps build their next factory or invest in
:11:55. > :12:02.another company. That would lead to uncertainty. It would be helpful if
:12:03. > :12:06.the government did not stir up the uncertainty. The fact is, everybody
:12:07. > :12:12.should reassure all of the world markets that, during the negotiation
:12:13. > :12:18.period, first of all informal and then formal under Article 50,
:12:19. > :12:22.everything carries on as normal. But nobody will know what will happen
:12:23. > :12:26.after two years and nobody will know what the deal is and you can see why
:12:27. > :12:30.businesses would hold onto their money. Yes, but it is clear to us on
:12:31. > :12:36.our side that we have been told world open to us. We already do. No
:12:37. > :12:43.we don't. On the World Trade Organisation we have won 28th of a
:12:44. > :12:49.seat represented by eight sweeties -- a Swedish psychiatric nurse.
:12:50. > :12:57.If you take trade, tiny countries like Iceland and New Zealand had
:12:58. > :13:00.direct trade deals with China, we would open up the whole world. The
:13:01. > :13:06.opportunities are enormous. And where Emma must not let slip is that
:13:07. > :13:10.the EU is effectively leaving us, they will form this new entity
:13:11. > :13:16.around the Eurozone. The idea that it is a cosy club is not true, we
:13:17. > :13:21.will be left on the outside of this with some ill-defined associate
:13:22. > :13:25.status. That's rubbish. There are nine member states who don't have
:13:26. > :13:31.the euro, we are not the only country, we are one of nine. And we
:13:32. > :13:34.are an integral part of the single market. Again, pessimism from the
:13:35. > :13:40.Eurosceptics about what we can do while remaining in the EU and
:13:41. > :13:43.working with our partners. Why do EU leaders have an interest in making
:13:44. > :13:47.life more difficult for the UK? Surely they would get on with that
:13:48. > :13:50.negotiating period and set up new trade agreements and it could be
:13:51. > :13:57.liberating in the way that Iain Duncan Smith has described. I think
:13:58. > :14:04.we are more prosperous and stronger by staying. You don't know that. How
:14:05. > :14:08.do you know? We are negotiating more ambitious trade deals with big
:14:09. > :14:12.economies around the world. The US government has suggested they are
:14:13. > :14:16.not that interested in a bilateral trade deal with us because they are
:14:17. > :14:21.more interested in doing a trade deal with the biggest single market
:14:22. > :14:26.in the world, the EU. We have more clout and power in the world by
:14:27. > :14:31.being a member of the EU than if we were on the outside. Isn't it true
:14:32. > :14:37.that both sides are scaremongering? Both camps are setting out to people
:14:38. > :14:41.their doom and do not -- disaster scenarios if we stay or leave. This
:14:42. > :14:48.idea of negative campaigning only on one side is not the case. They will
:14:49. > :14:53.form this entity around the Eurozone, we will be excluded and
:14:54. > :14:59.what Mervyn King said was that we are wise to be well away from the
:15:00. > :15:04.Eurozone. It is not clear what status we would have. If we let them
:15:05. > :15:07.get on with the political and judicial arrangements, get out the
:15:08. > :15:11.back and have a totally new arrangement based on trade and
:15:12. > :15:16.cooperation, the world is open to us. We would read galvanised free
:15:17. > :15:20.trade with the Anglo sphere. There are large number of people in
:15:21. > :15:22.America who would like to deal with us on sectors like automobiles and
:15:23. > :15:32.drugs and issues like that. It is still the case we trade more
:15:33. > :15:37.with the rest of the EU than any other country in the world. This is
:15:38. > :15:40.a false choice that the Eurosceptics like to bandy about, that somehow we
:15:41. > :15:45.have to choose between trading with the rest of the EU or the rest of
:15:46. > :15:51.the world and that is rubbish. We have the best of both worlds at the
:15:52. > :15:54.moment. We trade closely with our European partners, 47% of our trade
:15:55. > :16:00.goes with them and the rest is with the rest of the world. We do very
:16:01. > :16:06.well thank you very much. So you are happy with all the controls? Yes, I
:16:07. > :16:10.thought the Prime Minister did a decent job in his renegotiation
:16:11. > :16:14.because he clarified some of the issues around the Eurozone, the
:16:15. > :16:19.relationship with the non-Eurozone and I stress again we are not the
:16:20. > :16:23.only country in the EU not having the euro. He clarified those
:16:24. > :16:28.arrangements and some things to do with immigration as well. They will
:16:29. > :16:33.be pleased to have your support I am sure! Do you think Eurosceptic
:16:34. > :16:37.ministers should have access to civil service papers? I think there
:16:38. > :16:41.is a huge problem with the government taking a position which I
:16:42. > :16:46.agree with which is that we should remain as part of a reformed EU but
:16:47. > :16:49.at the same time suspending collective responsibility. There is
:16:50. > :16:53.also a huge problem with David Cameron rolling over again and again
:16:54. > :16:56.and again just to please the Eurosceptics which is why we are
:16:57. > :17:01.here right now. In some ways you have got your way by having
:17:02. > :17:05.collective responsibility abandoned but now you want access to the
:17:06. > :17:09.papers which are supposedly only the ones which actually refer to the EU
:17:10. > :17:17.referendum directly, you cannot have your cake and eat it? IC ten years
:17:18. > :17:21.of opportunity, the EU is lousy at negotiating trade deals, they asked
:17:22. > :17:26.all budding around with America, China and India are in the pipeline.
:17:27. > :17:30.Why is it countries like Iceland and New Zealand can do direct deals with
:17:31. > :17:36.China? I see this as an opportunity to open up a whole world, we have
:17:37. > :17:40.relations in south-east Asia, we would actually read galvanise world
:17:41. > :17:42.free trade. Part of the reason people are drowning in the
:17:43. > :17:48.Mediterranean is because of the breakdown in free trade because...
:17:49. > :17:56.Blocks like the EU are rotten at organising these deals. On the
:17:57. > :17:59.papers? It is nonsense and eight breach of the Venice commission
:18:00. > :18:03.which is endorsed by well-known democracies like Russia where the
:18:04. > :18:11.government is supposed to be neutral in constitutional referendums. It is
:18:12. > :18:16.quite wrong that a senior civil servant should be telling ministers
:18:17. > :18:21.who take a different line on the European issue that they don't have
:18:22. > :18:31.access to papers. Someone must have the same access to all the papers in
:18:32. > :18:39.my old department. The majority of Defra's activity has been handed to
:18:40. > :18:43.the European institutions, agriculture, food, drink,
:18:44. > :18:47.environment. It is vital George has access to up-to-date data and the
:18:48. > :18:54.latest developments. What will you do if that continues and he can't
:18:55. > :18:57.get access? I will raise it with the Prime Minister in questions on
:18:58. > :19:01.Wednesday and there are other members of Parliament who are
:19:02. > :19:04.exercised by this. My worry is that if it is seen that the government is
:19:05. > :19:09.trying to cheat people will not regard the referendum as legitimate
:19:10. > :19:14.and that is a danger. It must be seen to be fought their lead from
:19:15. > :19:20.the beginning. We see this again and again, the Eurosceptics moan and
:19:21. > :19:24.bang on about process because, this is an insurance claim for them, if
:19:25. > :19:28.they lose the referendum they will claim it is not fair so they can
:19:29. > :19:34.have another one and if they lose that one they will claim it is not
:19:35. > :19:38.fair so they can have another. It's such a predictable pattern. It is
:19:39. > :19:40.all about process, why don't we talk about the big arguments which is
:19:41. > :19:49.what people are really worried about. If the result is that Britain
:19:50. > :20:03.stays with due accent did? We won the argument on Perda. The
:20:04. > :20:06.government backed off and I think they were right to do and they
:20:07. > :20:11.listened and I hope they will listen to this issue on giving their access
:20:12. > :20:16.to ministers. It is vital the public see this to be fair. We will have to
:20:17. > :20:20.stop it there, you are on the hob programme. -- the whole programme.
:20:21. > :20:22.Well, a little earlier, Scotland's First Minister,
:20:23. > :20:24.Nicola Sturgeon, has been laying out the SNP's arguments for remaining
:20:25. > :20:28.In a speech in central London, she pledged to lead a "progressive
:20:29. > :20:37.I hope that the debate that we engage in over the next few
:20:38. > :20:38.months is a thoroughly positive debate.
:20:39. > :20:40.Because one of the undoubted lessons of the Scottish experience
:20:41. > :20:45.is that a miserable, negative, fear-based campaign saw
:20:46. > :20:47.the No campaign in the Scottish referendum lose, over
:20:48. > :20:54.the course of the campaign, a 20-point lead.
:20:55. > :20:57.And I don't have to point out to anybody here that the In campaign
:20:58. > :21:02.in this referendum doesn't have a 20-point lead to squander.
:21:03. > :21:06.And we're joined now by the SNP MP, Stephen Gethins, and by Ukip's only
:21:07. > :21:12.MEP in Scotland, David Coburn, who's in our Edinburgh studio.
:21:13. > :21:19.Welcome to both of you, first of all it is clear that you and the
:21:20. > :21:24.government take a different approach certainly rhetorically in making the
:21:25. > :21:29.case for the UK to remain in the EU. Do you think it is project fear or
:21:30. > :21:33.Project reality that the government is indulging in? We have been
:21:34. > :21:38.concerned by some of the messaging, in Scotland the project here element
:21:39. > :21:42.did not work, the point the First Minister was making was that the no
:21:43. > :21:48.campaign squandered the 20 point lead. They won by a lot less and we
:21:49. > :21:52.saw what happened after so it is important to have a positive
:21:53. > :21:56.campaign and it has to be said that that goes for all of us. You turn
:21:57. > :22:02.people off if you try to scaremonger your way to victory. What are you
:22:03. > :22:07.saying that is so positive that doesn't indulge in this negative
:22:08. > :22:10.campaign? I think it's a fantastic opportunity to talk about the
:22:11. > :22:15.benefits, we don't often hear the benefits of the EU and you get
:22:16. > :22:18.government is trying to pretend Brussels has made them do things
:22:19. > :22:23.when they signed up to them a long time ago. This government have not
:22:24. > :22:27.voted against the proposal since they came in. Let's talk about
:22:28. > :22:31.workers rights, paternity rights, the action we are taking on the
:22:32. > :22:37.environment and the economic benefit as well. David Coburn, you have a
:22:38. > :22:41.difficult job on your hands I suggest because 60% of voters
:22:42. > :22:46.broadly speaking want to stay in the EU and you don't have a lot of
:22:47. > :22:52.political allies on this subject in Scotland? That is nonsense! The
:22:53. > :23:00.Guardian came out and said 60% of Scots were Eurosceptic. 60% of Scots
:23:01. > :23:06.were Eurosceptic and wanted to pull out of the EU? That is what the
:23:07. > :23:14.Guardian said so it must be true. Ukip and Scotland, we are expected
:23:15. > :23:18.to get seven MSP 's according to a daily record poll so that is not too
:23:19. > :23:22.bad, I think the Scots are a lot more Eurosceptic than everyone tries
:23:23. > :23:27.to make out. The Scottish National party are not a Scottish National
:23:28. > :23:30.party they are European party. If they want more power in the Scottish
:23:31. > :23:38.parliament nothing will give Scotland more power than exiting the
:23:39. > :23:41.European Union. All the fishing, agriculture, industry will all come
:23:42. > :23:45.back to the Scottish Parliament and we will be able to get the 200 mile
:23:46. > :23:51.fishing limit back which the SNP don't seem to want which is very odd
:23:52. > :23:55.for a National party of Scotland. That is a positive case, you could
:23:56. > :24:01.have more access to potential markets if you came out of the EU?
:24:02. > :24:06.To pick up on the opinion polls, they have consistently shown that
:24:07. > :24:13.Scots are in favour of staying in the EU. I'm not saying we don't have
:24:14. > :24:17.a job to do but they have consistently shown that. On the
:24:18. > :24:19.issue of more powers we have questioned the government about
:24:20. > :24:27.which new powers Scotland would see and they have not told us any. They
:24:28. > :24:30.come back to London. Finally, on fishing, and this is another example
:24:31. > :24:36.where the member state hide behind the European Union, on fishing it
:24:37. > :24:39.was the Conservative government in the 70s which described Scotland's
:24:40. > :24:44.fishing industry as expendable, not the European Union. Which laws would
:24:45. > :24:50.come back specifically to the Scottish Government? Again it
:24:51. > :24:55.depends who has won, we want fishing brought back to Scotland, the 200
:24:56. > :24:59.mile limit. It is a great business for Scotland and at the moment the
:25:00. > :25:02.Spanish are looting our seas and making a fortune. We can do that
:25:03. > :25:08.ourselves here in Scotland and that is much better for the Scottish
:25:09. > :25:11.economy. I don't understand how the Scottish Nationalists can't
:25:12. > :25:16.understand that. Is this the argument you will use to try to
:25:17. > :25:20.convince the Scots? Absolutely but they have picked it up for
:25:21. > :25:24.themselves, they are not daft. We would not have the trouble we are
:25:25. > :25:28.having with the steel industry if it wasn't for expensive rules by the
:25:29. > :25:36.European Union about closing places, we have expensive... Chinese
:25:37. > :25:43.imports? That is also down to the EU cause in terms of tariffs, they have
:25:44. > :25:49.let them dump steel in Scotland. Why don't we have our own trade treaty
:25:50. > :25:52.with the United States? Instead of dividing by 27 different people it
:25:53. > :26:09.would just be four nations, what is wrong with that? Two of SNP MEPs
:26:10. > :26:17.were not present when we were voting on the T-tip. We get a lot of
:26:18. > :26:22.e-mails on that, that American companies will be able to get
:26:23. > :26:24.contracts and get rid of workers rights and conditions, would not
:26:25. > :26:31.expect the SNP to sign up to something like that? No, and the
:26:32. > :26:36.First Minister this morning expressed her significant concerns
:26:37. > :26:40.about T-tip. The very question that you would trust the London
:26:41. > :26:43.government on workers rights over Brussels is an anomaly. It was
:26:44. > :26:49.Brussels who made progress on things like maternity and paternity rights
:26:50. > :26:53.and various other workers rights. The trade unionist act will show you
:26:54. > :26:59.what a London government would do. The idea that working cooperatively
:27:00. > :27:04.with Brussels is worse than leaving London in charge is a myth. If this
:27:05. > :27:07.is such a big issue as you and your colleagues have said why don't you
:27:08. > :27:16.share a platform of David Cameron and the Conservatives? This is
:27:17. > :27:20.beyond party politics. Because we want to win the referendum in
:27:21. > :27:23.Scotland. The Tories had their worst resort in Scotland since 1865, David
:27:24. > :27:27.Cameron is hugely unpopular. My resort in Scotland since 1865, David
:27:28. > :27:31.message to Mr Cameron would be if you want the Scottish devote to stay
:27:32. > :27:35.in the best thing to do is stay away.
:27:36. > :27:38.in the best thing to do is stay can expect the SNP to call another
:27:39. > :27:41.Scottish independence referendum, immediately? This could have been
:27:42. > :27:49.avoided. That is not what I asked. immediately? This could have been
:27:50. > :27:50.time, this is something we try to avoid,
:27:51. > :27:53.time, this is something we try to point this morning that this is not
:27:54. > :27:58.the circumstances we wanted to point this morning that this is not
:27:59. > :28:01.the UK votes to leave and Scotland votes to stay you would have
:28:02. > :28:03.the UK votes to leave and Scotland be an equal
:28:04. > :28:09.the UK votes to leave and Scotland those circumstances there will be
:28:10. > :28:15.calls for a second independent sport. How soon do you think? There
:28:16. > :28:18.will be calls and we will take it one referendum at a time but there
:28:19. > :28:24.will have been a breakdown in the relationship. Is pushing the
:28:25. > :28:31.Scotland out of the UK an acceptable price to leave the EU? It's not
:28:32. > :28:34.going to happen. Just because people may or may not like the European
:28:35. > :28:41.Union does not mean they will want to leave the UK. The two things are
:28:42. > :28:44.completely unrelated. I tell you something, there is no difference in
:28:45. > :28:48.Scotland and England, I knocked on as many doors north and south of the
:28:49. > :28:57.border and the person in Glasgow has the same view as the person and
:28:58. > :29:00.Birmingham. There is no difference. Far be it from me to bring facts
:29:01. > :29:07.Birmingham. There is no difference. into it... We like facts! Every
:29:08. > :29:12.repeatable poll has shown that Scots are consistently more in
:29:13. > :29:18.repeatable poll has shown that Scots meaning in the EU than elsewhere.
:29:19. > :29:23.There has been a variation. There has, but significantly higher than
:29:24. > :29:30.the 50-50 we see in the rest of the UK. That is not to say we are taking
:29:31. > :29:35.it for granted. Before I let you go I need to ask about the Ukip plan or
:29:36. > :29:41.proposal are blaming the EU for restricting the power of toasters,
:29:42. > :29:48.is that still the case? Apparently I managed to stop some legislation
:29:49. > :29:54.until after the Brexit. They are holding back the legislation until
:29:55. > :29:59.after the referendum in order to not terrified British voters. So I am
:30:00. > :30:06.one of the few MEPs who have achieved something, I stopped
:30:07. > :30:09.something! Except, is it true? It is and humour is a dangerous thing and
:30:10. > :30:16.I'm afraid the European Union suffer from a lack of it. On that note of
:30:17. > :30:18.positive, upbeat campaign, thank you both.
:30:19. > :30:23.So, in a week expected to be dominated by events surrounding
:30:24. > :30:25.Later today, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, is expected
:30:26. > :30:28.to address the Parliamentary Labour Party for the first time this year.
:30:29. > :30:31.On Tuesday, the Government is due to publish the latest incarnation
:30:32. > :30:33.of the Investigatory Powers Bill, the so-called 'Snoopers Charter'.
:30:34. > :30:35.On Wednesday, David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn face each other
:30:36. > :30:40.across the Despatch Box for their weekly dose of PMQs.
:30:41. > :30:42.On Thursday, the British Chambers of Commerce holds its annual
:30:43. > :30:49.Key speakers include the Labour leader and the German Finance
:30:50. > :30:55.And on Friday, the Scottish Tories' Spring Conference kicks off
:30:56. > :31:03.Leader Ruth Davidson will speak, possibly joined by David Cameron.
:31:04. > :31:05.Let's talk now to Caroline Wheeler from the Sunday Express
:31:06. > :31:19.Welcome to both of you. The first time Jeremy Corbyn addresses the
:31:20. > :31:25.Parliamentary Labour Party and we are in March almost. White has it
:31:26. > :31:29.taken him so long and what can he expect? He was meant to turn up last
:31:30. > :31:36.week but pulled out at the last moment because of the bait on Europe
:31:37. > :31:48.and the statement the Prime Minister brought back from Brussels -- the
:31:49. > :31:52.debate. The belief among Labour MPs, and with some justification, is that
:31:53. > :31:57.it is a pretty awful gathering for Jeremy Corbyn whenever he goes.
:31:58. > :32:03.There are a large number of Labour MPs who like to make their is like
:32:04. > :32:09.him known at these gatherings. The contents leaks almost instantly and
:32:10. > :32:12.I think it is fair to say that he likes almost anything else other
:32:13. > :32:17.than the Parliamentary Labour Party meetings on a Monday night. It is
:32:18. > :32:25.not surprising he doesn't turn up. I don't blame him. Caroline, the issue
:32:26. > :32:32.of access to papers during this EU referendum. We are expecting a
:32:33. > :32:35.question asked as to why Jeremy Hayward banned ministers having
:32:36. > :32:41.access to these papers. How will this play out? It will be tricky,
:32:42. > :32:46.number ten will say they have done nothing wrong and this is standard
:32:47. > :32:50.policy and the civil servants can only do things that support their
:32:51. > :32:55.position and that is to stay in Europe. But there has been a lot of
:32:56. > :33:01.criticism saying it is going beyond the remit of the realm and that
:33:02. > :33:06.Jeremy Hayward has encouraged them to spy on ministers to say whether
:33:07. > :33:09.they will come out for Brexit or not and to restrict certain papers that
:33:10. > :33:15.even people like Iain Duncan Smith can have access to. There has been a
:33:16. > :33:19.big ding-dong about this and it will go off at the committee hearing this
:33:20. > :33:25.afternoon when he will give evidence to the committee led by Bernard
:33:26. > :33:31.Jenkin is who is an ardent Eurosceptic, to try to somehow
:33:32. > :33:35.justify this position. How difficult will it be to keep both sides of the
:33:36. > :33:42.Tory party together? What is most striking in their debate is you now
:33:43. > :33:45.have somewhere in the region of 140 Tory MPs defying David Cameron and
:33:46. > :33:51.coming out for Brexit. Those numbers are much higher than anticipated by
:33:52. > :33:57.Downing Street in October or never that when it seemed to be closer to
:33:58. > :34:02.70 or 100. We are not quite at civil war time yet. The Tory party feels
:34:03. > :34:07.like a number of long-standing friends at the top of the party have
:34:08. > :34:12.had a big row and quite how that trickles down to the rest of the
:34:13. > :34:16.party remains to be seen. David Cameron is more interested in
:34:17. > :34:21.winning the referendum than holding the party together and perhaps that
:34:22. > :34:28.calculus has changed in the last month. There is less talk of that
:34:29. > :34:31.and more of just needing to win and convincingly, whatever that means
:34:32. > :34:36.for the futures of Michael Gove, Chris Grayling and others. Let's
:34:37. > :34:43.talk about the different policy issue, that of surveillance powers
:34:44. > :34:46.and the investigatory Powers Bill. Has it been changed dramatically by
:34:47. > :34:51.Theresa May before being presented to the House of Commons? If you read
:34:52. > :34:55.some of the coverage of this, the suggestion is that it hasn't been
:34:56. > :34:59.changed that dramatically after the intervention of three separate
:35:00. > :35:05.committees which raised serious questions. This will be another
:35:06. > :35:08.question between those who are on the side of civil liberties and
:35:09. > :35:15.those who say we should do everything in our powers to protect
:35:16. > :35:19.Britain and give them as much power as possible to protect them from any
:35:20. > :35:23.cyber or terrorist attack. Europe seems to come into other thing we do
:35:24. > :35:28.and there is some suggestion that this bill is being brought back at a
:35:29. > :35:31.time when most of the party is distracted with other things so
:35:32. > :35:36.there is a big question about the response when it is published, we
:35:37. > :35:41.believe tomorrow. Will there be more support for it? It is a numbers
:35:42. > :35:46.game. The problem with the bill before is that it wasn't clear they
:35:47. > :35:49.would get it through Parliament. It seems that some of the Northern
:35:50. > :35:55.Ireland parties are likely to vote in favour. Labour are not completely
:35:56. > :35:59.against it, Andy Burnham has been flip-flopping more times on this
:36:00. > :36:04.than in the leadership election! But not every Labour MP will vote to
:36:05. > :36:10.oppose it so with that backdrop it feels hard to call it as a definite
:36:11. > :36:13.loss for Theresa May. The basics are the same. It feels like they could
:36:14. > :36:16.have a good shot at it. Thank you very much.
:36:17. > :36:19.Want to know how our guests today Owen and Emma know so much
:36:20. > :36:22.and are able to answer any question with absolute authority?
:36:23. > :36:25.It's because they are MPs and spend lots of time in the House of Commons
:36:26. > :36:30.Not only does the library have books but it has some very swotty research
:36:31. > :36:32.staff who pull together briefings on every subject from local
:36:33. > :36:35.government funding in the North East to household recycling in the UK.
:36:36. > :36:38.Our Ellie went down to see them at work, including one librarian
:36:39. > :36:42.who's retiring today, after 44 years.
:36:43. > :37:16.Until 1966 it was the Speaker's private library.
:37:17. > :37:19.John Prince fell in love with this library when he started working
:37:20. > :37:25.Apart from a handful of librarians and Parliamentary staff,
:37:26. > :37:27.and me for the morning, only 650 people are really
:37:28. > :37:38.The library stocks any topic that might be of value or use to an MP
:37:39. > :37:45.There are around 40,000 books in here and it has got some other
:37:46. > :37:49.cool stuff too, like this really old phone.
:37:50. > :37:52.So, John, it's not all about the books then in here?
:37:53. > :37:55.No, we have one or two other items, including this Parson's-Sloper
:37:56. > :37:57.interphone which dates from the 1920s when this room
:37:58. > :38:00.was the Speaker's private library and he could use this to communicate
:38:01. > :38:04.with other parts of his official residence here.
:38:05. > :38:07.There are also pamphlets dating back to 1559 and even some
:38:08. > :38:12.They are the oldest things we've got, they are very lucky
:38:13. > :38:16.We know we have had them as a distinct collection
:38:17. > :38:22.But this is a working library with working technology.
:38:23. > :38:25.There are a lot of fantastic books here but really very
:38:26. > :38:30.Much more it is about the information that we do publish
:38:31. > :38:33.online, but the public really need to know that MPs
:38:34. > :38:38.And, of course, it's difficult for them to be experts in everything
:38:39. > :38:41.so the big thing we do is brief MPs on the bills
:38:42. > :38:46.Parliament, on big issues, topical issues of relevance.
:38:47. > :38:49.Albert Einstein once said, the only thing you absolutely have
:38:50. > :38:51.to know is the location of the library.
:38:52. > :38:58.And joining us now is the Conservative MP
:38:59. > :39:00.Michael Fabricant, who sits on the House
:39:01. > :39:02.of Commons Administration Committee, the body responsible for overseeing
:39:03. > :39:15.And a lovely library it is. It is beautiful and we are not allowed to
:39:16. > :39:22.take people in normally. 40,000 books. What is the fiction section
:39:23. > :39:28.like? Not good! You might have to go to Boots! Don't petitions want to
:39:29. > :39:33.read something other than factual stuff? They might want a Jackie
:39:34. > :39:38.Collins or something. You might be able to request that. There is an
:39:39. > :39:42.extensive magazine section and it is a good place to go to do research
:39:43. > :39:49.and very good if you want to just chill out. Do MPs go? They go for
:39:50. > :39:55.all different purposes some to use the computers you have seen, others
:39:56. > :39:59.to do research, others to have research provided for them and also,
:40:00. > :40:04.for example, my office is some distance from the Palace of
:40:05. > :40:08.Westminster, it is in what used to be the old Scotland Yard will bring,
:40:09. > :40:15.and I can go on the computers there. Do you go? Less since I moved
:40:16. > :40:21.offices. I used to use it a per Mendis amount and the staff are
:40:22. > :40:28.William -- a tremendous amount. The staff are brilliant. Mainly I ask
:40:29. > :40:33.them to do research work, they are incredibly quick and thorough. You
:40:34. > :40:36.can ask for a policy document on anything? Absolutely. And it has
:40:37. > :40:40.real clout and you can anything? Absolutely. And it has
:40:41. > :40:41.make a speech and you are listened anything? Absolutely. And it has
:40:42. > :40:47.to if you refer to that library. And anything? Absolutely. And it has
:40:48. > :40:54.everybody does listen to it when you use it. Do you go? Yes it is a vital
:40:55. > :40:58.resource for backbenchers and opposition MPs. I used it in housing
:40:59. > :41:05.because you can ask them to look into all sorts of things. I often go
:41:06. > :41:12.newspapers when there is a gap between a meeting. I will go and
:41:13. > :41:13.newspapers when there is a gap look at a
:41:14. > :41:18.newspapers when there is a gap haven't had a chance to read, that
:41:19. > :41:26.is useful as well. I must confess, I only go if I'd been in it! How
:41:27. > :41:32.narcissistic! You haven't got a book at home that is mounting up huge
:41:33. > :41:40.fines? Absolutely not! I behave very correctly. Do you take books out? I
:41:41. > :41:44.have but I tend to over recess. It is quite difficult to find the time
:41:45. > :41:50.to read a good blog while we are in session. When I take them out it
:41:51. > :41:56.tends to be over the recess periods. Is it worth keeping them? If MPs are
:41:57. > :42:00.using it as a research facility, wouldn't it be better to auction off
:42:01. > :42:04.some of those and help George Osborne pay the deficit? Some of
:42:05. > :42:08.them are held by the British likely and elsewhere because they are
:42:09. > :42:13.incredibly historical. -- British library. There are a lot of
:42:14. > :42:16.biographies, there is a colleague who is almost
:42:17. > :42:16.biographies, there is a colleague around with books under
:42:17. > :42:22.biographies, there is a colleague is always borrowing from the
:42:23. > :42:28.library. But I wanted to say, like Owen, I am very sceptical
:42:29. > :42:30.library. But I wanted to say, like economic grounds and I will give
:42:31. > :42:32.library. But I wanted to say, like an example of how the library was
:42:33. > :42:40.incredibly useful. We were saying that if we left the EU we would have
:42:41. > :42:44.a camp like the Jungle in the middle of Kent. I contacted the library
:42:45. > :42:50.because it is governed by this treaty, they sent me the treaty and
:42:51. > :42:53.because it is governed by this a summary saying it is all a load of
:42:54. > :42:59.balderdash and has nothing to do with the EU whatsoever! I knew we
:43:00. > :43:04.would get back to the EU! Because it came from the House of Commons
:43:05. > :43:09.library, people not only leave it, they know it to be true and
:43:10. > :43:13.ministers noted to be true. What about the atmosphere in the library
:43:14. > :43:18.itself? The furniture and trappings, is it like old members club? A bit.
:43:19. > :43:27.Some people might go there for a nap as well! Have you done that? I can
:43:28. > :43:31.categorically state... It is a bit like an old university library. The
:43:32. > :43:43.further down you go, the quieter it debts. Are there many people in
:43:44. > :43:47.that. -- it gets. You have different times and different often it is
:43:48. > :43:52.people like myself who not only research done but who want to get to
:43:53. > :43:57.a computer and catch up with e-mails. It is packed during the
:43:58. > :44:02.day. On Thursday night I happened to be late at the House of Commons and
:44:03. > :44:05.the house had risen and I had been entertaining people from my
:44:06. > :44:10.constituency. It was about ten o'clock and there was somebody
:44:11. > :44:16.snoozing, the young MP who had missed his train. He might still be
:44:17. > :44:19.there! I don't know if he was planning to stay the night but he
:44:20. > :44:24.was in a comfortable armchair and why not? I am pleased to hear it is
:44:25. > :44:28.serving all sorts of uses. Thank you for coming in.
:44:29. > :44:31.Britain's retailers predict that almost a million jobs in the sector
:44:32. > :44:33.will disappear by 2025, that's about a third
:44:34. > :44:36.Retailers employ one in six people in the UK,
:44:37. > :44:39.and the sector accounts for about a tenth of the UK economy.
:44:40. > :44:43.Let's talk now to Victoria Fritz from the BBC's business unit who's
:44:44. > :44:56.What is happening? The big issue is all about smartphones and tablet
:44:57. > :45:00.computers, consumers in the UK have got used to using them, they are
:45:01. > :45:04.used to going online and trying to find a cheaper deal. So we are
:45:05. > :45:10.seeing changing tastes. On the other side of the occasion, if you are a
:45:11. > :45:15.start-up business for example it is cheaper and easier and faster to set
:45:16. > :45:18.up your business online and you have reduced overheads, you are not
:45:19. > :45:24.paying business rates or for staff in shops. We have seen supply change
:45:25. > :45:28.as well. Talking to retailers it seems to ring true, we have heard
:45:29. > :45:32.from the chairman of Debenhams who says he thinks we will see fewer
:45:33. > :45:37.workers in the future and people like Tesco's are saying that given
:45:38. > :45:40.the competition in the market at the moment there will be a real change
:45:41. > :45:46.towards this and everyone is trying to push online. Is this not a
:45:47. > :45:53.continuation of a gradual decline or is this a sudden cliff edge? The big
:45:54. > :45:56.difference is that the official estimates put the numbers of jobs
:45:57. > :46:03.lost much lower so this is quite striking today. I think what is
:46:04. > :46:08.interesting is what will happen with the national living wage, this is
:46:09. > :46:11.the new name for the minimum wage which is coming into effect next
:46:12. > :46:17.month. It will be interesting to see what happens to the wage bill, will
:46:18. > :46:22.we see retailers respond to that by cutting the number of people they
:46:23. > :46:24.employ overall are whether or not we see a quick ship to automation and
:46:25. > :46:26.online retail. Well, Helen Dickinson
:46:27. > :46:39.from the British Retail Consortium Listening to the figures, what will
:46:40. > :46:42.you do to protect employees? What is striking about this report is that
:46:43. > :46:46.we are already seeing a fall in the number of people working in the
:46:47. > :46:50.industry over the last couple of years and what we will see is
:46:51. > :46:55.perhaps that accelerate as we go forward as the equation between
:46:56. > :47:00.technology and labour cost has shifted on the back of the living
:47:01. > :47:04.wage. So the aspiration absolutely is that although there will be fewer
:47:05. > :47:09.jobs there are better jobs in the industry. Much more focus on
:47:10. > :47:14.customer service and a different profile in terms of the digital and
:47:15. > :47:18.physical and how it works together. Did you see this government policy
:47:19. > :47:24.of the national living wage increasing by the amount it is
:47:25. > :47:28.having these sorts of consequences? It will have a knock-on impact on
:47:29. > :47:34.retail and hospitality, on the care industry for instance. But I agree,
:47:35. > :47:41.what you will see is jobs will move, I was in Shropshire on Friday and
:47:42. > :47:49.they are looking for more jobs and activity in the post office, it is a
:47:50. > :47:52.key resource. People go there for money or physical deliveries, so you
:47:53. > :48:00.will see a growth in different areas. There will be different jobs.
:48:01. > :48:06.Before I came in I saw a Twitter message saying Anderson will start
:48:07. > :48:14.delivering meat, fruit and vegetables -- Amazon. Hasn't the
:48:15. > :48:19.industry adapted already, you must have known about this, you had a
:48:20. > :48:22.report in 2014 saying 60% of jobs were at risk from high automation
:48:23. > :48:31.and exacerbated by the national living wage. The industry has to
:48:32. > :48:36.keep up with the times. Absolutely, we have adaptable retailers who will
:48:37. > :48:39.respond. What we wanted to highlight in the report was questions about
:48:40. > :48:44.how this will impact in different parts of the country and different
:48:45. > :48:48.parts of the workforce. That is perhaps where there is more risk,
:48:49. > :48:53.although on the one hand the industry as a whole will become more
:48:54. > :48:58.efficient and more productive with better service for shoppers which is
:48:59. > :49:03.a good thing, but we will potentially see the impact of that
:49:04. > :49:08.will fall most heavily on perhaps more economically deprived areas and
:49:09. > :49:12.more vulnerable people. That makes sense in some ways rightly or
:49:13. > :49:18.wrongly, should there be a variation in terms of the national living wage
:49:19. > :49:23.across the country? I don't think there should be regional variation
:49:24. > :49:27.but there is a difference, there is a different minimum wage in London
:49:28. > :49:34.compare to the rest of the country. One thing we have not touched on is
:49:35. > :49:37.Amazon, if they try to compete with retailers which it is with some good
:49:38. > :49:41.but not so much with others we have to make sure it is a level playing
:49:42. > :49:47.field because you need to make sure that they and others are paying
:49:48. > :49:50.proper and fair taxation. If you are retail stores around the country you
:49:51. > :49:55.are not finding ways to get round taxis in the same way we have seen
:49:56. > :50:01.some of these companies. Do you agree? I think it is an absolutely
:50:02. > :50:06.fair comment. Looking ahead, you think that retailers don't pay their
:50:07. > :50:10.employees enough? Part of the problem is a large number of retail
:50:11. > :50:14.employees but they are not paid very well, even taking the minimum wage
:50:15. > :50:21.into account, our retailers to blame for some of that? It is up to
:50:22. > :50:24.retailers how much they pay them, I am glad the minimum wage is going up
:50:25. > :50:28.because that is something we called for before the last election but it
:50:29. > :50:32.is vital. They will get better customer service, if people are
:50:33. > :50:37.valued and paid well they get better service. I think security is another
:50:38. > :50:42.thing, we need to make sure zero our contracts are not being used where
:50:43. > :50:48.they should not be used. The extent of the zero hours contract was
:50:49. > :50:53.debated heavily during the election and did not seem to be as large as
:50:54. > :51:03.Labour was implying. There is still a large amount in some parts of the
:51:04. > :51:08.retail industry. Is it not just a case that the retail industry has
:51:09. > :51:14.took a peeper properly? -- has to pay people properly? I think there
:51:15. > :51:19.is more the industry needs to do in terms of low pay and what we are
:51:20. > :51:23.showing with this report is that the changes we are seeing with the
:51:24. > :51:26.implementation of the living wage and the change around the structural
:51:27. > :51:34.change in the industry to do with the way that people shop well
:51:35. > :51:38.accelerate pace of substitution, change in the way business is done.
:51:39. > :51:44.We will see more investment in technology and less in people than
:51:45. > :51:49.perhaps we have seen in the past. The question about how an even that
:51:50. > :51:52.will be between different types of businesses, different parts of the
:51:53. > :51:54.country and people within the workforce is the key thing. Thank
:51:55. > :51:56.you. Now, we all know politicians
:51:57. > :51:59.like a good lunch, some even Blend the two together
:52:00. > :52:05.and what have you got? Here's our Adam with his guide
:52:06. > :52:07.to some of the greatest political Last week Michael Gove and his wife
:52:08. > :52:11.were here in Islington, Chez Boris, along with the Russian
:52:12. > :52:14.businessman Evgeny Lebedev who owns Although not Liz Hurley,
:52:15. > :52:19.who was invited to the meal Over a leg of lamb they
:52:20. > :52:25.plotted about the EU. Europe was on the menu
:52:26. > :52:27.here at the Dorchester Hotel during the 1975 referendum
:52:28. > :52:31.because Labour and Tory inners would meet here for
:52:32. > :52:34.secret breakfasts. It was a serve-yourself buffet,
:52:35. > :52:37.so would be no waiters, A few years ago at this
:52:38. > :52:42.restaurant in Covent Garden the then Sunday Times
:52:43. > :52:45.journalist Isabel Oakshott lunched the economist Vicky Pryce,
:52:46. > :52:52.who confessed her husband had He was Chris Huhne,
:52:53. > :52:54.the Energy Secretary And rather cruelly,
:52:55. > :52:57.the restaurant is called Round the corner here on the Strand,
:52:58. > :53:05.this office block used to be a pub called the Duck
:53:06. > :53:09.and Drake, where in 1604 Guy Fawkes met his co-conspirators
:53:10. > :53:10.before they tried to At the turn of this
:53:11. > :53:18.century at this tapas restaurant in Pimlico called Goya,
:53:19. > :53:20.Francis Maude and Michael Portillo were spotted plotting
:53:21. > :53:23.against William Hague. Except they weren't;
:53:24. > :53:26.Francis Maude was just South of the river in
:53:27. > :53:33.Kennington you will find Ghandi's, a favourite haunt
:53:34. > :53:35.of all sort of politicians including the new Labour ministers,
:53:36. > :53:41.plotted their coup against Gordon And talking about Labour
:53:42. > :53:53.and talking about curries, But the most famous Labour meal deal
:53:54. > :53:56.was done back here in Islington at a restaurant called
:53:57. > :53:59.Granita where Blair and Brown sealed their pact
:54:00. > :54:02.for the leadership. It shut down and became a Mexican
:54:03. > :54:05.restaurant called Desperados, And it is now closed
:54:06. > :54:09.down altogether. We are all starving after that!
:54:10. > :54:19.because I'm starving! Joining us now is the Daily
:54:20. > :54:30.Mirror's Kevin Maguire. to decide their stance on the EU
:54:31. > :54:36.referendum, over a slow roasted shoulder of lamb as reported, sounds
:54:37. > :54:38.tasty, do you cut your deals over meals? I think it is useful
:54:39. > :54:55.particularly when the wine flows. You can see why the Independent is
:54:56. > :55:00.closing down because the proprietor of a newspaper is more interested in
:55:01. > :55:04.the food than the conversation as you have two cabinet ministers
:55:05. > :55:08.arguing with a third and plotting coming out against Britain staying
:55:09. > :55:12.in Europe. It is down to the wine rather than the food, tongues get
:55:13. > :55:16.loosened and deals are cut, where would you go, where are the best
:55:17. > :55:22.places to take politicians to hear the best gossip? Go to a noodle bar
:55:23. > :55:28.that nobody knows, off the beaten track but I think the gay huzzah is
:55:29. > :55:35.a fantastic venue. You get a lot of conservative politicians. Michael
:55:36. > :55:40.foot had his own table, he would meet the Russian ambassador. It is
:55:41. > :55:44.not very secret if you have a table. But when you are out in the open is
:55:45. > :55:47.when you can plot the most because nobody thinks you are up to
:55:48. > :55:53.anything. Appearance can be deceptive. Emma, you said you have
:55:54. > :55:59.been to most of those places so you have done a lot of plotting? That is
:56:00. > :56:03.not to say and it is not just in London we have these restaurants.
:56:04. > :56:10.The curry house plot was a Indian restaurant in Wolverhampton. You did
:56:11. > :56:16.not answer the question, you mean you don't do any plotting at all
:56:17. > :56:22.Emma? No, I don't plot, I am a straightforward politician. But I do
:56:23. > :56:28.have meals! LAUGHTER I think one of my old friends said
:56:29. > :56:31.to me when you go into politics you will find you have very few real
:56:32. > :56:35.friends and those are the people who happen to go for lunch order now
:56:36. > :56:40.with. People eat together and discuss politics, we are
:56:41. > :56:46.politicians, that is what we do. How often do you go to arrest wrong with
:56:47. > :56:51.your political friends? Last year, a well-known journalist resigned on a
:56:52. > :56:56.point of principle with his newspaper. He was due to take me to
:56:57. > :57:00.a very smart restaurant which I was looking forward to, some very good
:57:01. > :57:07.fresh. We ended up going to a small and modest bistro in Pimlico with
:57:08. > :57:10.tiny tables and he kept talking in a loud voice and I suddenly realised
:57:11. > :57:17.the whole restaurant was listening to every word, the bill came and I
:57:18. > :57:22.paid. You related luck out. So are you not hatching plots over the EU
:57:23. > :57:27.referendum strategy? They don't have too, it is all out in the open! That
:57:28. > :57:31.is true, it is open and trans Mallon at the moment, is the less political
:57:32. > :57:37.dealing going on in restaurants these days? It is as much as ever,
:57:38. > :57:44.there is less wine at lunch time but it as transfers to the evening.
:57:45. > :57:49.Often you do listen to what is said at other tables, I always assume
:57:50. > :57:54.other people do so you go for a whisper. I recall Cecil Parkinson in
:57:55. > :57:57.the late 80s, he was bad-mouthing Margaret Thatcher and there was a
:57:58. > :58:02.journalist at the following table who took it all down and got a
:58:03. > :58:05.wonderful story. Lunch is on you after the show!
:58:06. > :58:08.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:09. > :58:10.The question was who is advising Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party
:58:11. > :58:14.Former Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis?
:58:15. > :58:16.Or Chinese Finance Minister Lou Jiwei?
:58:17. > :58:19.So Emma and Owen what's the correct answer?
:58:20. > :58:29.It is Yanis Varoufakis. Are you pleased with that? I don't think I
:58:30. > :58:34.should comment on that. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I am not sure
:58:35. > :58:40.he would be my first choice but it is up to John McDonnell and his
:58:41. > :58:47.team. So you are not a fan? Anti-austerity? John did some good
:58:48. > :58:50.research, seeing people did not vote Labour not because we were
:58:51. > :58:57.anti-austerity but because we were not trusted with people's money...
:58:58. > :58:59.Yanis Varoufakis will not be taking you out for lunch any time soon! I
:59:00. > :59:02.like his jacket!