:00:00. > :00:00.Faslane Trident, and the future of the BBC. The First Minister
:00:07. > :00:14.referring to bright young journalists. 23 isn't bad.
:00:15. > :00:17.your subsidies? Do you want money from the British government, and
:00:18. > :00:21.then you can lobby the British government on how they spend it? I
:00:22. > :00:27.understand that you would spend it in a better way. But it is not a
:00:28. > :00:30.saving. Well, it is a saving, because you are talking about the
:00:31. > :00:34.match funding and mentioned and the strings you have. Of course we are
:00:35. > :00:37.going to spend it. Whole point of the Leave campaign is that we will
:00:38. > :00:42.have this money that we are giving to the European Union to spend at
:00:43. > :00:45.home way we want. Let me welcome our viewers in Scotland who have been
:00:46. > :00:48.watching First Minister's Questions in Edinburgh. You now join us in an
:00:49. > :00:55.argument of figures for the remaining and leave campaign. What
:00:56. > :00:59.do you make of it? There are obviously costs to being in the
:01:00. > :01:03.European Union. But basic economics suggests that if you reduced tariffs
:01:04. > :01:07.and you reduce non-trade tariff barriers, precisely the things that
:01:08. > :01:11.Boris Johnson complained about, that he couldn't change the cab window on
:01:12. > :01:14.lorries, that is in order that everybody else doesn't and we can
:01:15. > :01:18.sell our goods across Europe. Alimentary economics suggests that
:01:19. > :01:22.we will make money out of that. All of us will have a view as to whether
:01:23. > :01:25.or not the exchange we make in which we have more influence on what the
:01:26. > :01:29.continent does and they have more influence on us is a worthwhile
:01:30. > :01:35.exchange. Unfortunately, lots of these figures shine no light on
:01:36. > :01:40.anything, because people don't know exactly what the dimensions are. But
:01:41. > :01:44.if you ask me, elementary market economics suggests, as Harold
:01:45. > :01:47.Macmillan and every conservative Prime Minister has argued since
:01:48. > :01:51.1961, that if you have a free market across Europe with a larger internal
:01:52. > :01:56.market, it will make people better off. I believe that our tolerance,
:01:57. > :02:04.social cohesion and international peace depends on our prosperity and
:02:05. > :02:08.it is a worthwhile deal. Jack Straw. I beg your pardon, Will Straw.
:02:09. > :02:12.Stuart Rose has said nothing will happen if we came out of Europe in
:02:13. > :02:18.the next five years. There will be no change, he said. What happened to
:02:19. > :02:22.a decade of uncertainty? He was asked about that again yesterday by
:02:23. > :02:26.Steve Baker, one of the members of the committee and a prominent
:02:27. > :02:29.campaigner to leave. And he clarified his remarks and said, what
:02:30. > :02:36.I was saying was that the lights would not go out the day afterwards,
:02:37. > :02:41.but you would start to get effects. He said there would be absolutely no
:02:42. > :02:45.change. You are quoting something he said some months ago. Yesterday, he
:02:46. > :02:49.clarified his remarks. Since he joined the campaign, there has been
:02:50. > :02:53.a series of economic studies put out by HSBC and Morgan Stanley saying we
:02:54. > :02:58.would fall into recession. On the question of wages, it is not a good
:02:59. > :03:02.idea to give each individual more wages unless their productivity goes
:03:03. > :03:09.up, otherwise we will have lots of unemployment. Stuart Rose has been a
:03:10. > :03:12.brilliant chair so far. The important point he was making guest
:03:13. > :03:16.today and that we are making is that you can argue about the figures, but
:03:17. > :03:21.the benefits of being in the EU out whether costs. We cannot judge that
:03:22. > :03:27.unless we argue about the figures! But the figures we are arguing about
:03:28. > :03:30.our ten times larger than the cost figure. Even if we were out, the
:03:31. > :03:32.balance would be on our side. We will leave it there.
:03:33. > :03:34.Yesterday, the Government responded to what has become Parliament's most
:03:35. > :03:37.popular petition, which saw 800,000 people calling for the meningitis B
:03:38. > :03:39.vaccine to be offered to all children under 11.
:03:40. > :03:42.At present, it's only to be offered to children in the first year
:03:43. > :03:46.But the Department of Health has rejected the call, saying it's
:03:47. > :03:48.following expert advice and that extending the vaccination
:03:49. > :03:51.Well, one MP raised the issue at Prime Minister's Questions
:03:52. > :03:59.and Giles is with her on College Green.
:04:00. > :04:06.I am indeed. It has to be said, 815,000 yesterday is a huge number.
:04:07. > :04:10.It is the most supported petition ever. I suspect a lot of parents
:04:11. > :04:16.simply think it would be great to save more children's lives. Helen
:04:17. > :04:21.Whately, you raised this in PMQs. Can the government do more? Can they
:04:22. > :04:26.do what the petition is asking? I raised this because not only is it
:04:27. > :04:31.my constituents who are the parents of a child who died, it is an awful
:04:32. > :04:35.disease and they have asked me to be a voice for their concerns and
:04:36. > :04:39.wanted to prevent other children suffering. So I want to push the
:04:40. > :04:43.government to look at this again. But they have looked at this. They
:04:44. > :04:47.followed the advice of the joint committee on vaccination and
:04:48. > :04:52.immunisation. And the advice was that we cannot extend this, it is
:04:53. > :04:56.not cost-effective. Presumably, they have little room for manoeuvre. I
:04:57. > :05:01.know they are looking at whether it is possible to start vaccinating
:05:02. > :05:05.teenagers to provide herd immunity which protects young children as
:05:06. > :05:08.well. There is also work going on to look at how assessments are made on
:05:09. > :05:13.cost effectiveness of vaccinations. I am pushing for that work to
:05:14. > :05:17.happen. Do you accept that cost is, however heartless, a consideration
:05:18. > :05:24.in these decisions? There is always somebody that falls outside this,
:05:25. > :05:27.however tragically. It is difficult to talk about cost when dealing with
:05:28. > :05:31.a disease as horrid as meningitis B, but you do have to look at the best
:05:32. > :05:35.way to use a limited amount of NHS resources. We have to make sure the
:05:36. > :05:40.money is well spent. But you could look again at the cost effectiveness
:05:41. > :05:45.and public awareness. Is there a problem that when you are shifting
:05:46. > :05:49.funding from one part of the NHS, but taking it from an area where
:05:50. > :05:54.there are other people saying, hang on, we need to fund this drug more
:05:55. > :05:59.effectively? Exactly, there are difficult choices to be made between
:06:00. > :06:01.treatment and vaccination and between different vaccination
:06:02. > :06:05.programmes. I want to see more emphasis put on prevention and
:06:06. > :06:08.vaccination overtreatment. Do you think the government will change his
:06:09. > :06:14.mind? I think the government is taking this seriously. I suspect
:06:15. > :06:16.that petition will go a bit higher before this gets debated.
:06:17. > :06:17.Now, what, if anything, do all these politicians
:06:18. > :06:37.We're gonna win with trade, we'll win with the military,
:06:38. > :06:41.we're gonna win with Obamacare. We're replacing it.
:06:42. > :06:43.We can cause the biggest political shock
:06:44. > :06:45.that has been seen in modern British political history.
:06:46. > :06:48.We can cause an earthquake on May 22nd
:06:49. > :06:53.All the pundits are calling the race for Clinton.
:06:54. > :06:59.That means we're probably going to win in a landslide!
:07:00. > :07:04.they're all examples of anti-establishment rebels
:07:05. > :07:07.who have upset the traditional political order.
:07:08. > :07:10.But are they all part of a trend, and perhaps more importantly,
:07:11. > :07:12.will they ever translate that impact into elected office?
:07:13. > :07:20.we're joined by the Guardian columnist Owen Jones.
:07:21. > :07:26.Danny Finkelstein is still with us. In this antiestablishment kick, it
:07:27. > :07:32.is true to say that there is likely to be, on the right is on the left?
:07:33. > :07:35.Yes, and all across the western world at the moment, there is quite
:07:36. > :07:39.a febrile atmosphere, with huge amounts of political discontent
:07:40. > :07:43.going in two directions. That is populist parties of the xenophobic
:07:44. > :07:47.right, and new movement on the left. And they vary enormously. In the
:07:48. > :07:51.United States, you have Bernie Sanders, a sceptre generic
:07:52. > :07:55.socialist, and then you have the demagogic plutocrat Bob Trump. In
:07:56. > :08:00.Britain, you have the rise of the SNP, you have the Greens and the
:08:01. > :08:03.court bin phenomenon and then Ukip. In France, you have the far right
:08:04. > :08:08.National Front. In Spain, the left-wing party Podemos. And across
:08:09. > :08:12.Scandinavia, anti-immigrant parties and then Greek Syriza. There is huge
:08:13. > :08:16.discontent and the fear of people like me is that we have not
:08:17. > :08:20.recovered from the last economic crisis. It is a mugs game predicting
:08:21. > :08:25.the next crisis, but if there is one, the danger is the likes of
:08:26. > :08:28.Nigel Farage and Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen in France of the
:08:29. > :08:35.National Front being better organised. We have already learned
:08:36. > :08:40.that from America, because Mr Trump is almost certainly going to be the
:08:41. > :08:43.Republican nominee for president. And Mr Sanders is certainly not
:08:44. > :08:47.going to be the Democrat nominee. I suppose with Sanders, he failed to
:08:48. > :08:54.inspire particularly African-Americans. I saw your column
:08:55. > :09:00.always insightful. I genuinely found that fascinating. You said it was
:09:01. > :09:04.rich college kids fuelling Bernie Sanders, but he has actually done
:09:05. > :09:08.well amongst low income white Americans, but failed with
:09:09. > :09:12.African-Americans. Certainly in the United States, as elsewhere in other
:09:13. > :09:15.countries, for example in Spain, you have not had a successful populist
:09:16. > :09:22.right movement. It has gone to the left. But Podemos will not be in the
:09:23. > :09:29.next government. We don't know that yet. But the fear I have is that
:09:30. > :09:35.unless people who believe as I would put it, in the politics of hope, get
:09:36. > :09:38.their act together, it will be the xenophobic right who benefit. But if
:09:39. > :09:43.you look at the Bernie Sanders campaign, if you look at the state
:09:44. > :09:45.he won in New Hampshire and so on, his support came overwhelmingly from
:09:46. > :09:52.white middle-class people like yourself. No. YouGov looked at New
:09:53. > :09:55.Hampshire, and they found among African-Americans that he failed to
:09:56. > :10:01.inspire them. Clinton is doing well there. But with New Hampshire, they
:10:02. > :10:04.found that Bernie Sanders overwhelmingly won amongst the
:10:05. > :10:10.lowest income brackets, was Hillary Clinton won amongst the highest
:10:11. > :10:17.income brackets. But the turnout amongst the lowest income white
:10:18. > :10:21.voters was very low. Whereas the turnout among college tutor and is,
:10:22. > :10:27.among white middle-class folk like yourself, was huge. Well, regardless
:10:28. > :10:34.of the turnout, he did a lot better amongst low-income Americans. The
:10:35. > :10:38.issue with the Democrats, he is doing better amongst low white
:10:39. > :10:43.Americans. The Democrats have failed to excite and mobilise their
:10:44. > :10:48.existing supporters in the way Donald Trump outs. Donald Trump's
:10:49. > :10:54.supporters are often Americans who are hurting. Their wages have been
:10:55. > :11:00.falling. This is not about it being a personality cult. Anybody on the
:11:01. > :11:05.left, regardless of whether you are going to dismiss middle-class
:11:06. > :11:07.students, actually, people who go to university who you call middle-class
:11:08. > :11:10.are often people struggling with jobs who are lacking a secure
:11:11. > :11:16.future. You cannot pin an election on them alone. Isn't it true that
:11:17. > :11:19.everywhere you look on both sides of the Atlantic and on both sides of
:11:20. > :11:27.the Channel, the mainstream is under attack, and in some places losing
:11:28. > :11:31.power? In some places, that is true. But one thing those four have in
:11:32. > :11:40.common is that none of them have won power and I don't think they will.
:11:41. > :11:45.But they have in other places. Syriza has won in Greece. The hard
:11:46. > :11:50.right has won in Poland. There is a very strange government taking over
:11:51. > :11:53.in Croatia. They are doing well in Finland and Sweden. I acknowledge
:11:54. > :11:58.that we are seeing something real, and these people represent real
:11:59. > :12:03.change. Ukip scoring 12% was significant, but I don't think it is
:12:04. > :12:07.just the new revolt against the elite. Firstly, we have always had
:12:08. > :12:10.revolts against the elite. When Spencer Percival was assassinated in
:12:11. > :12:14.1812, people cheered in Parliament Square. That was how his wife found
:12:15. > :12:20.out he was dead. There has always been hatred for establishments. But
:12:21. > :12:23.traditional Labour and Conservative, right and love politics, which have
:12:24. > :12:27.managed to hold together liberal and affluent people with less well off
:12:28. > :12:31.people who have security concerns, those are being pulled apart by
:12:32. > :12:36.various economic features which we would agree on. For example, the
:12:37. > :12:40.fact that robotics and globalisation are suppressing the wages of
:12:41. > :12:44.unskilled workers, and they feel more insecure and they are turning
:12:45. > :12:53.to populist movements particularly as they revolt. So you agree with
:12:54. > :12:56.him? Not quite, because it still remains the case that political
:12:57. > :13:01.success in the main lies with getting coalitions that bring those
:13:02. > :13:09.groups together. And the revolts against booze parties which have
:13:10. > :13:12.always existed have become greater and pulled those coalitions apart.
:13:13. > :13:18.But that will not produce electoral victory. It is true to say that the
:13:19. > :13:22.centre-left and the centre-right honour under assault almost
:13:23. > :13:26.everywhere you look. Very much so. Part of what we are seeing is a
:13:27. > :13:32.crisis of traditional social democracy, because the traditional
:13:33. > :13:35.bases has fragmented. The end of the Cold War and the thankful demise of
:13:36. > :13:41.Soviet totalitarianism was spun as the end of history so that was seen
:13:42. > :13:45.as not just the Revolutionary Communist left, but even social
:13:46. > :13:49.democracy was doomed. Then there was the financial crash, because you had
:13:50. > :13:52.social Democrats supporting austerity. And if you are a Social
:13:53. > :13:56.Democrats and you don't believe in public investment, what do you have
:13:57. > :13:59.left to say? In large part, you had a collapse in vision and a
:14:00. > :14:05.fragmentation of the base. You talked about the primaries in the
:14:06. > :14:09.United States. They have always disproportionately attracted
:14:10. > :14:19.affluent voters, which is why it is difficult to draw conclusions.
:14:20. > :14:32.People in the middle and working class people. It is important not to
:14:33. > :14:37.dismiss... I am very happy to have Owen Jones defends the middle class
:14:38. > :14:46.on the Daily Politics. That is why I'm here! Ever since racist Southern
:14:47. > :14:49.states have had several rights, the Liberals have struggled to gain
:14:50. > :14:53.power. Yesterday, shadow chancellor
:14:54. > :14:55.John McDonnell held the latest featuring members of his
:14:56. > :14:59.economic advisory panel. They're designed to open up
:15:00. > :15:04.Labour's polic making They're designed to open up
:15:05. > :15:06.Labour's policy-making and break away from
:15:07. > :15:07."Westminster-dominated views" The speaker was the Nobel-prize
:15:08. > :15:10.winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, and we sent our Adam along to ask
:15:11. > :15:19.some penetrating questions. in fact, the Shadow Chancellor's
:15:20. > :15:23.old university, to find out what it's like on his
:15:24. > :15:25.New Economics tour. Today's special guest,
:15:26. > :15:26.Professor Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prize winner and
:15:27. > :15:29.according to Wikipedia, the fifth most influential economist
:15:30. > :15:38.in the world. He talked for really quite a long
:15:39. > :15:41.time, but the gist is that the 1950s was the golden age of capitalism,
:15:42. > :15:44.especially in the US, and that inequality has been getting
:15:45. > :15:48.much worse ever since. The median income of
:15:49. > :15:50.a full-time male worker today is today the same
:15:51. > :15:55.as it was 40 years ago. That means that for four decades,
:15:56. > :15:57.young men, men have not seen any
:15:58. > :15:59.increase in their income. This in a country that says every
:16:00. > :16:02.generation is going to be doing He reckons these two
:16:03. > :16:15.deserve the blame for helping the rich to get
:16:16. > :16:16.richer, in the hope that
:16:17. > :16:19.everyone would benefit. If Reagan and Thatcher had gone,
:16:20. > :16:23.if Reagan had come to the American people and said, "I have this
:16:24. > :16:25.great idea for reform, I have this great reform, the result
:16:26. > :16:29.of which is that the economy is going to grow more slowly,
:16:30. > :16:34.but don't worry about it. All the growth that does occur
:16:35. > :16:42.will go to the top 10%. And if you happen to be so poorly
:16:43. > :16:45.informed that you choose to be in the bottom 90%, you're
:16:46. > :16:48.going to be stagnant. If you choose to be in the bottom
:16:49. > :16:51.50%, you will see your income
:16:52. > :16:55.decline". Would the American people have
:16:56. > :16:58.voted for that idea? And he has written a whole book
:16:59. > :17:02.about how the rules of the economy One of the things that have gone
:17:03. > :17:08.wrong in our economy is the growth Firms are focused
:17:09. > :17:15.on the next quarter. are focused on the next
:17:16. > :17:21.nanosecond. Now, you can't invest for long
:17:22. > :17:24.in people, technology and machines for long term economic growth
:17:25. > :17:26.if you focus on the nanosecond It was very high fibre stuff,
:17:27. > :17:37.for a fairly highbrow audience. Are you guys Butch and Sundance,
:17:38. > :17:48.Holmes and Watson, Batman and Robin? We are trying to raise
:17:49. > :17:50.the level of debate. What's interesting is
:17:51. > :17:56.that the quality of the discussions that have been
:17:57. > :17:58.taking place have been astounding. Young people in particular have been
:17:59. > :18:00.flocking to these meetings, with a real understanding
:18:01. > :18:02.of society, and buzzing with ideas The prof is heading back
:18:03. > :18:10.to his ivory tower. Following in his footsteps
:18:11. > :18:11.on Labour's tour, the soon-to-be ex-economics
:18:12. > :18:16.editor of Channel 4 News, Paul Mason, and the former
:18:17. > :18:18.Greek finance minister, And we're joined now
:18:19. > :18:26.by another member of Labour's She's Professor Anastasia
:18:27. > :18:29.Nesvetailova and she's director of the Political Economy Research
:18:30. > :18:45.Centre at City University in London. Welcome to the programme. Can you
:18:46. > :18:50.give us any idea yet what kind of policies the committee is suggesting
:18:51. > :18:58.Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell should adopt. The concrete content of
:18:59. > :19:08.policies is still being discussed and developed what I can say is we
:19:09. > :19:15.are on the same page in developing a more strategic role for the state.
:19:16. > :19:21.And for economic system is able and has the resources to withstand
:19:22. > :19:24.short-term and long-term economic risks and uncertainties. Give me an
:19:25. > :19:32.example of how you would do that. There are two very tangible risks to
:19:33. > :19:38.the UK Connolly, the short one is Brexit, that could lead to a lot of
:19:39. > :19:42.losses and very little gains. -- the UK economy, the long-term danger is
:19:43. > :19:48.a financial bank down coming from the part of the financial system
:19:49. > :19:56.that is in the so-called shadows, the shadow bank system. The problem
:19:57. > :20:02.is that although there is an understanding that these are risks,
:20:03. > :20:08.and the overall economic environment globally is very pessimistic for
:20:09. > :20:12.2016, monetary and fiscal authorities don't have the resources
:20:13. > :20:19.to help the economy grow through a potential meltdown. Is the advisory
:20:20. > :20:28.committee united in urging the Labour Party to keep Britain in the
:20:29. > :20:31.European Union? Yes, we are in the same page. I personally would have
:20:32. > :20:35.liked to have seen stronger engagement in the wider, with the
:20:36. > :20:43.country, about the risks and losses of Brexit. I saw that Joseph
:20:44. > :20:54.Stiglitz, who we had there, he was saying that if the EU signed up to
:20:55. > :20:57.TTIP, the free trade agreement that the US and EU are in the process of
:20:58. > :21:03.negotiating that have not yet agreed, the UK should consider TTIP.
:21:04. > :21:07.Correct. There is a hypothetical sentence and that particular
:21:08. > :21:12.statement, but I profoundly disagree with Nobel prizewinner Joseph
:21:13. > :21:16.Stiglitz on that. You are allowed to! Thank you. I think it is a
:21:17. > :21:20.misreading of the European project is, that the value of the UK economy
:21:21. > :21:26.in this total big market and bigger construction is, and it is severely
:21:27. > :21:31.underestimating the costs, the risks and the consequences of Brexit. It
:21:32. > :21:34.is a real danger. Even with TTIP, a North Atlantic free trade
:21:35. > :21:42.arrangement, you would still urge that we stay in? Yes. Is the Labour
:21:43. > :21:47.leadership open to new ideas, are they soaking up everything?
:21:48. > :21:52.Eminently so, eminently so, the format of the meetings varies. There
:21:53. > :21:55.are numbers of parliament sitting there and it is an open discussion
:21:56. > :22:00.on a variety of topics, then there are some more specialised topical
:22:01. > :22:05.debates or analysis of particular issues, and there are also public
:22:06. > :22:10.events, which take part, in terms of educating the public. Which is one
:22:11. > :22:15.of the things we saw. Exactly, that was the first of them. Speaking just
:22:16. > :22:19.for yourself, not the advisory committee, what is the one policy of
:22:20. > :22:27.all others you would urge Labour to adopt? Strategic role for the state,
:22:28. > :22:31.investment in people and infrastructure, for balancing the
:22:32. > :22:39.financial economic divide. That is an aspiration, it is not a policy.
:22:40. > :22:42.It is, but with this aspiration comes a concrete set of
:22:43. > :22:50.institutions. And you have that to give to Labour? Together, yes. When
:22:51. > :22:51.will we get a report? You will have to ask them! We will, Professor,
:22:52. > :22:54.thank you. Now, if you were worrying
:22:55. > :22:57.that we haven't mentioned the EU referendum in the last
:22:58. > :22:59.few minutes, fear not. We're going to take a look at some
:23:00. > :23:02.new research by the pollster YouGov which claims to rank every part
:23:03. > :23:05.of the country according to how much it's in favour of, or against,
:23:06. > :23:08.our continued membership Ellie, who dreamed of being
:23:09. > :23:14.a weather presenter, before accepting
:23:15. > :23:18.defeat and becoming a political correspondent, is here
:23:19. > :23:29.with the Eurosceptic forecast They didn't even trust me with one
:23:30. > :23:34.of those clicking things, but there were go.
:23:35. > :23:36.So let's have a look at where the winds of euroscepticism
:23:37. > :23:39.- and of europhilia - are blowing across the UK,
:23:40. > :23:41.according to the pollster YouGov, which has based its work
:23:42. > :23:46.There's a real storm of criticism of our continued membership
:23:47. > :23:49.of the EU here in the London borough of Havering, which the research
:23:50. > :23:51.named the most eurosceptic place in Britain.
:23:52. > :23:54.But Havering goes against the trend for London, as five of the ten most
:23:55. > :23:56.europhile boroughs are in the capital.
:23:57. > :24:00.They are Lambeth, Camden, Southwark, Hackney and Brent.
:24:01. > :24:02.According to YouGov, there's a real hotspot in favour
:24:03. > :24:04.of membership in Ceredigion in rural West Wales,
:24:05. > :24:07.that's been named the most pro-EU place in the country.
:24:08. > :24:09.It is followed by Aberdeen and Stirling, and, elsewhere
:24:10. > :24:12.in Scotland, West Dunbartonshire and the city of Edinburgh feature
:24:13. > :24:20.On the Eurosceptic side, all of the areas most likely
:24:21. > :24:26.There're a strong band of them here in the South East,
:24:27. > :24:27.with Peterborough, Bracknell Forest, and the coastal town
:24:28. > :24:32.of Southend-on-Sea all on the satellite.
:24:33. > :24:35.That Eurosceptic breeze is also to be keenly felt on the northwest
:24:36. > :24:37.coast in Blackpool, as well as in nearby Blackburn,
:24:38. > :24:39.then down the road a little bit in sunny Warrington,
:24:40. > :24:45.South Tyneside is in for some spells of euroscepticism, as is the borough
:24:46. > :24:57.Andrew, back to you for some more sunshine.
:24:58. > :25:00.We always have sunshine! Thanks, Delhi.
:25:01. > :25:05.And Joe Twyman of the research firm YouGov is here now.
:25:06. > :25:13.What can you tell us about the differing demographics, by and large
:25:14. > :25:17.of the in campaign and the out campaign, people who are likely to
:25:18. > :25:21.vote either way? We know there are some groups who are particularly
:25:22. > :25:25.likely to lean one way or the other. It won't be a surprise to hear that
:25:26. > :25:32.Guardian readers wish to stay, and Daily Mail and express leaders --
:25:33. > :25:36.readers wish to stay. But the demographics, it is to do with age.
:25:37. > :25:39.If you are a younger person, particularly 18 to 30, you are
:25:40. > :25:43.significantly more likely to vote to stay in, and if you are an older
:25:44. > :25:47.person, particularly over the age of 60, who are more likely to wish to
:25:48. > :25:52.leave. Then there are also things with education for instance. On the
:25:53. > :25:56.map, when you look in detail, you can see that university towns are
:25:57. > :26:00.far more likely to stay in, because university graduates are far more
:26:01. > :26:02.likely to want to stay, whereas people with fewer educational
:26:03. > :26:09.qualifications, they are more likely to want to go. Is there an element
:26:10. > :26:13.of establishment in, antiestablishment out? Yes, by no
:26:14. > :26:16.means overwhelmingly the case, there are still those who are conservative
:26:17. > :26:21.with a small sea, and with a large sea, who wished to lead and that is
:26:22. > :26:27.not a surprise. But there is a group of people -- who wish to leave. But
:26:28. > :26:31.the people who left behind. You see that in some of the towns, Southend
:26:32. > :26:33.and Clacton. Absolutely, yes. We will come back to that, thank you.
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:26:42. > :26:43.Esther McVey, Owen Jones, Helen Lewis, along with
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