:00:38. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell aims to regain Labour's "economic
:00:44. > :00:47.credibility" by promising Labour will only borrow to invest.
:00:48. > :00:54.Boris Johnson ramps up his campaign for Britain to leave the EU,
:00:55. > :01:00.It's prompted scores of marches and countless protests,
:01:01. > :01:06.We'll discuss the EU's planned deal with the US,
:01:07. > :01:12.the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership.
:01:13. > :01:16.And could members of the European Parliament
:01:17. > :01:19.get their own dedicated chauffeur service to boost security
:01:20. > :01:31.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration
:01:32. > :01:34.Miranda Green, star of This Week, who also writes for the Finanical
:01:35. > :01:37.Times, and Ben Chacko, the star of the Morning Star,
:01:38. > :01:44.So in the last hour or so, Boris Johnson has been making
:01:45. > :01:53.Speaking at a transport and logistics company in outer
:01:54. > :01:55.London, Mr Johnson said Britain needed to "hold it's nerve"
:01:56. > :02:02.I know that there are people who say that this country doesn't
:02:03. > :02:06.have the guts to get out, that we have no choice
:02:07. > :02:13.I have to say I think they are hopelessly underestimating
:02:14. > :02:19.this country of ours and what we can achieve.
:02:20. > :02:24.Because it is precisely because we stayed out of the euro
:02:25. > :02:28.that we are now one of the most successful economies of Europe.
:02:29. > :02:32.If we burst out of the shackles of Brussels, we would be able
:02:33. > :02:36.to begin immediately with those long neglected free trade opportunities,
:02:37. > :02:53.Mr Johnson earlier this morning. Miranda, how big an asset, if you
:02:54. > :02:59.think he is an asset, is he to the league campaign? I think he is. He
:03:00. > :03:05.communicates brilliantly, unlike many of our top politicians. But I
:03:06. > :03:11.think there is a problem with this whole approach. It was quite clever
:03:12. > :03:17.speech this morning. There is no downside to Britain leaving the EU,
:03:18. > :03:22.will people really believe that? In a sense the leave campaign has some
:03:23. > :03:25.quite attractive people there which offsets the array of loonies that
:03:26. > :03:33.Downing Street is always keen to mention. They mention George
:03:34. > :03:44.Galloway as often as they can. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are
:03:45. > :03:47.serious. And on the head of the conservative European Parliamentary
:03:48. > :03:54.party. But there is a problem with the thrust of Boris's speech which
:03:55. > :04:02.is quite swashbuckling and libertarian out of Europe. Is that
:04:03. > :04:07.the character of the UK? It is conservative, but it is risky going
:04:08. > :04:11.for this less be brave speech. The morning star in 1975 recommended we
:04:12. > :04:17.leave the EU. What is your position this time? We are hosting the debate
:04:18. > :04:20.leave the EU. What is your position on the left. The problem with what
:04:21. > :04:25.is going on at the moment is that both sides of the argument are
:04:26. > :04:29.dominated by the Conservative Party. Have you not made up your mind? The
:04:30. > :04:36.editorial position would be to leave. Coming on to your point, a
:04:37. > :04:42.lot of the reasons Boris Johnson gives for leaving would not be the
:04:43. > :04:48.ones you would give? No, they would not. The right of the Conservative
:04:49. > :04:51.Party are looking to attack certain rights and regulations they feel are
:04:52. > :04:56.written into European law, but on the other hand I would say the
:04:57. > :05:01.European Union is not a democratic institution which has a huge amount
:05:02. > :05:06.of neoliberal, free market regulations written into its
:05:07. > :05:15.treaties which are impossible to renegotiate. Boris Johnson said it
:05:16. > :05:19.is deranged. Their range? The EU. I think it is deranged. Their
:05:20. > :05:27.brinkmanship in Ukraine in 2014 and Russia, I think there is an element
:05:28. > :05:33.of a will to power with these EU leaders. And in the treatment of
:05:34. > :05:39.Greece, the will of the electorate was completely ignored. Jean-Claude
:05:40. > :05:45.Juncker said you cannot make a democratic decision to go against.
:05:46. > :05:53.They had the decision to leave and they chose not to. Yes, they could
:05:54. > :05:57.have left. In terms of the tactics, we do not know how Boris Johnson's
:05:58. > :06:02.speech will be treated by the public at large, it is too early to say.
:06:03. > :06:09.His performance with Andrew Marr was not regarded as stellar last Sunday.
:06:10. > :06:15.That is very polite. I am. But perhaps the way they go forward is
:06:16. > :06:17.that Michael Gove would do the big TV interviews and Boris Johnson
:06:18. > :06:23.would do the rally is reaching directly to the public. Michael Gove
:06:24. > :06:27.is an excellent debater and an intellectual force, so they should
:06:28. > :06:33.think about using him. But this whole story about the palace and the
:06:34. > :06:37.row over the Queen backing Brexit, Michael Gove's picture keeps
:06:38. > :06:42.appearing in the swallow up stories, so he needs to get that out of the
:06:43. > :06:51.way quite quickly. I think it was the corgis. You have a good source.
:06:52. > :06:58.Maybe they told Michael Gove. I do think it is this split with David
:06:59. > :07:04.Cameron and Osborne is they feel they can win the referendum by
:07:05. > :07:08.replaying the general election. You might not love us, but we are the
:07:09. > :07:15.confident, calm conservatives. If Michael Gove is not onside, that is
:07:16. > :07:16.a problem. Plenty more in the weeks ahead.
:07:17. > :07:21.The question for today is: President Obama has criticised
:07:22. > :07:23.David Cameron for becoming distracted and allowing
:07:24. > :07:27.Was it a) The special relationship b) The Situation in Libya
:07:28. > :07:30.c) British relations with the rest of the EU
:07:31. > :07:36.or d) The American Embassy in London?
:07:37. > :07:39.And a little later in the show we'll see if Miranda and Ben
:07:40. > :07:49.I think they will because they read the papers.
:07:50. > :07:51.Earlier this morning the Shadow Chancellor,
:07:52. > :07:53.John McDonnell, made a speech which had been billed as containing
:07:54. > :07:55.a significant announcement about Labour's economic policy,
:07:56. > :07:57.designed to restore the party's economic credibility.
:07:58. > :08:01.According to the Shadow Chancellor, the next Labour government
:08:02. > :08:04.will follow a new "Fiscal Credibility Rule".
:08:05. > :08:07.This means they would have to observe certain economic principles.
:08:08. > :08:10.The deficit on day to day spending would be eliminated.
:08:11. > :08:14.That means the government would not be borrowing money for things
:08:15. > :08:18.like welfare payments or public sector salaries.
:08:19. > :08:23.There could still be some borrowing, but this would go towards so-called
:08:24. > :08:25."long-term" investment in infrastructure, homes,
:08:26. > :08:29.roads, railways, renewable energy and new technology.
:08:30. > :08:35.And the country's debt would fall over the period of a five-year
:08:36. > :08:44.All of this would be overseen by the Office
:08:45. > :08:48.for Budget Responsibility which would be given new powers
:08:49. > :08:52.to "whistleblow" if the government wasn't following the rules.
:08:53. > :08:59.Here's some of what John McDonnell had to say.
:09:00. > :09:06.We should show how we can account for every penny in tax revenue
:09:07. > :09:15.raised and every penny spent. There is nothing left wing about borrowing
:09:16. > :09:20.to cover day-to-day expenses and increasing debts. Borrowing today is
:09:21. > :09:23.money to repay tomorrow. With a greater and greater proportion of
:09:24. > :09:26.our government debt is now held by those in the rest of the world,
:09:27. > :09:32.government borrowing represents an net loss for those of us living
:09:33. > :09:34.here. The public, quite rightly, what a government that is
:09:35. > :09:39.We did ask the Labour Party for an interview with one
:09:40. > :09:43.of their treasury team, but no one was available.
:09:44. > :09:50.That is strange on the day of a new policy announcement.
:09:51. > :09:52.Instead we've been joined by the economist Jonathan Portes,
:09:53. > :09:54.from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research,
:09:55. > :09:57.who has been working with members of John McDonnell's economic
:09:58. > :10:10.We balance current spending and borrowing to invest. Is that not
:10:11. > :10:13.Gordon Brown? Brown, Ed Balls and Osborne. That is correct. This is
:10:14. > :10:21.improved, but not radically different the rules between 1997 and
:10:22. > :10:26.2015. All of those rules had the basic principle of balancing the
:10:27. > :10:29.current budget, borrowing for investment spending and aiming to
:10:30. > :10:39.get stepped down as a proportion of GDP over time. It is Osborne's
:10:40. > :10:45.current raft, not a radical departure. He is attempting to move
:10:46. > :10:49.to an overall surplus. Exactly. What was the point of consulting all
:10:50. > :10:53.these Nobel prize-winning economists and doing these tours of the
:10:54. > :10:58.country. We have ended up back to the future. Hopefully the Nobel
:10:59. > :11:04.Prize winners gave him some radical, new ideas. But the basic
:11:05. > :11:11.housekeeping staff you need fairly boring people like me to tell you to
:11:12. > :11:15.do something reasonably good. What is the difference between short-term
:11:16. > :11:20.investment and long-term investment? That is a good question. I am not
:11:21. > :11:24.sure it really means anything to be honest. In practice the definition
:11:25. > :11:30.of investment is done not by the government, the Office for National
:11:31. > :11:34.Statistics will make the rule and that is what it will look like. It
:11:35. > :11:39.does raise some questions we do not have the answer to. If you go into a
:11:40. > :11:45.balance current spending, you have to tell us how you will do that.
:11:46. > :11:50.Labour will have to tell us. In many ways current spending involves some
:11:51. > :11:55.of the most sensitive areas of public spending, nurses' pay,
:11:56. > :11:59.teachers' pay, welfare, things that matter a lot to Labour and we do not
:12:00. > :12:06.know how we are going to do that. That is right and I am not sure
:12:07. > :12:12.anyone knows. But they will have to tell us? Absolutely and fiscal rule
:12:13. > :12:18.forces you to make choices. You have to set out priorities and what you
:12:19. > :12:24.will spend money on and raise taxes on. There is an assumption that
:12:25. > :12:27.infrastructure spending will lead in the medium, not necessarily the
:12:28. > :12:33.short-term, but in medium to long-term to higher economic growth.
:12:34. > :12:40.It will raise national productivity to put it that way. It is not
:12:41. > :12:45.necessarily always true. HS2, ?50 billion for high-speed rail. Well
:12:46. > :12:50.that raise economic growth? It probably will, but it is not the
:12:51. > :12:55.best use of ?50 billion. First of all, there is a lot of cross-country
:12:56. > :13:00.evidence that overall investment spending is good, it does boost
:13:01. > :13:05.growth and productivity. In broad terms it is sensible. But there is
:13:06. > :13:12.no point spending money on white elephants and we have had our share
:13:13. > :13:18.of those. Hinkley Point C? It is possibly an even worse investment
:13:19. > :13:22.that HS2. Fiscal rule does not tell you how to spend the money and it
:13:23. > :13:28.does not guarantee you will spend the money wisely. There are still a
:13:29. > :13:31.lot of difficult choices to make. If you are going to attempt to balance
:13:32. > :13:39.current spending, but continue to borrow to invest in absolute terms
:13:40. > :13:44.you will always run a deficit? Well, if you just get ballots. There is
:13:45. > :13:54.nothing that stops you overachieving. It would be harder to
:13:55. > :13:59.run a big surplus. If I am borrowing, to balance the budget I
:14:00. > :14:04.would have to run a surplus of 50 billion on current spending. That is
:14:05. > :14:09.right. But in the first couple of years, even though Brown had broadly
:14:10. > :14:14.the same type of rule, we did run a surplus for a bit, so it is not
:14:15. > :14:20.impossible. But most of the time under this rule we would be running
:14:21. > :14:25.deficits, that is right. But not getting overall debt down? No
:14:26. > :14:33.economist would say it was remotely relevant. Even after World War II we
:14:34. > :14:42.had a debt to GDP ratio of well over 200% and we got it down by 30%. In
:14:43. > :14:46.the days of higher growth, most major economies are struggling to
:14:47. > :14:50.get over 2% growth and in the eurozone we cannot manage that. It
:14:51. > :14:56.may be a different age. That is a worry, but you do not solve that by
:14:57. > :15:00.restrictive fiscal policy. We and other countries elsewhere will have
:15:01. > :15:02.to do something to restore growth. Are you disappointed by this from
:15:03. > :15:13.John McDonnell? I think he has done a good job of
:15:14. > :15:17.challenging the nation was an accreditation with finances. It is
:15:18. > :15:21.not fiscally prudent to sell off our stake in the Eurostar for a windfall
:15:22. > :15:24.when the public lose a valuable asset, and you can say the same
:15:25. > :15:28.about the privatisation of the national Royal Mail, or the way we
:15:29. > :15:32.have allowed Google to choose how much tax they pay. These are the
:15:33. > :15:40.behaviours... But his economic policies, as we have heard, it is
:15:41. > :15:44.more of Mr Brown and Mr Paulson. It is a physical decision. He is making
:15:45. > :15:48.a sensible point that it is not about spending more money than you
:15:49. > :15:52.have got, it is about taking the economic decisions that allowed the
:15:53. > :15:56.country to be run more fairly. For example, if you took action to
:15:57. > :16:01.control soaring rent, then you would not have the same housing benefit.
:16:02. > :16:06.But that is not macro economic policy. This is about macro economic
:16:07. > :16:10.policy, an announcement, and it is pretty indistinct a ball from
:16:11. > :16:14.previous Labour policy. What I'm saying is that it is perfectly
:16:15. > :16:18.possible to radically restructure the economy without committing to
:16:19. > :16:23.spend more money than you take in in tax. Back to the morning Star,
:16:24. > :16:28.presumably? That is another breakthrough this morning.
:16:29. > :16:32.Consensus. What you make of it? I think it is very interesting because
:16:33. > :16:37.there is a lot of chat, as we know, about the Labour leadership. Is this
:16:38. > :16:40.or is this not part of the long journey towards a electability.
:16:41. > :16:44.Being considered competent on the economy is part of what Labour needs
:16:45. > :16:50.to do. But the other part of that is leadership. And Rachel Reid, a much
:16:51. > :16:56.more mainstream centre-left figure than John McDonnell was saying
:16:57. > :17:02.something very similar a few days ago, writing for the times. Will
:17:03. > :17:05.peace and consensus broke out on the Labour benches over what has been
:17:06. > :17:11.said on the economy? Possibly, but it does not solve the party's
:17:12. > :17:15.problems. What is next in Labour's economic policy? I don't know is the
:17:16. > :17:21.short answer. I have no role with the Labour Party. I understand you
:17:22. > :17:27.are not a member of the Labour Party, but I think you have been
:17:28. > :17:32.helpful. Simon Wren Lewis and I wrote research on fiscal roles which
:17:33. > :17:36.underpins the announcement today but Simon is the one announcing them --
:17:37. > :17:41.advising them. I think they will have to do something. The issue you
:17:42. > :17:45.talked about before, what do we do to restart growth in a way that we
:17:46. > :17:50.have not seen, particularly wage growth that we have not seen much of
:17:51. > :17:55.over the last decade, that is a key problem for politicians of all
:17:56. > :17:59.parties, quite frankly. Reverting to our last chat together, are we
:18:00. > :18:02.getting anywhere with these national insurance numbers? I got a bit of
:18:03. > :18:07.stuff out of DWP yesterday on the data underpinning the Prime
:18:08. > :18:11.minister's Bazaar and not well founded complaint about 40% of
:18:12. > :18:17.recent migrants being on minimum wage. I'm still waiting for the real
:18:18. > :18:20.stuff from HMRC. It will either generate
:18:21. > :18:22.huge economic gains, or undermine democracy
:18:23. > :18:27.and damage the NHS. The Transatlantic Trade
:18:28. > :18:29.and Investment Partnership has divided opinion and provoked
:18:30. > :18:31.countless protest marches. NEWSREEL: All Americans are glad
:18:32. > :18:40.about the new trade agreement with Britain, but perhaps
:18:41. > :18:42.the gladdest is the US For him this link between Britain
:18:43. > :18:45.and America is the realisation For all of our lifetimes there have
:18:46. > :18:49.been trade agreements between the US and Britain
:18:50. > :18:55.as well as Europe. We are talking about what could be
:18:56. > :18:57.the biggest bilateral trade But TTIP, or the Transatlantic
:18:58. > :19:01.Trade and Investment Partnership, could, according
:19:02. > :19:06.to those pushing it, go beyond anything
:19:07. > :19:07.we have known before. The negotiations
:19:08. > :19:13.started back in 2013. A deal that can add as much
:19:14. > :19:16.as ?100 billion to the EU economy, ?80 billion to the US
:19:17. > :19:18.economy, and as much as ?85 billion
:19:19. > :19:24.to the rest of the world. This is a once-in-a-generation prize
:19:25. > :19:28.and we are determined to seize it. America and Europe have
:19:29. > :19:29.done extraordinary things together before and I believe
:19:30. > :19:32.we can forge an economic alliance as strong as our diplomatic
:19:33. > :19:39.and security alliances. The basic principle
:19:40. > :19:42.of TTIP is to cut tariffs and regulatory barriers to trade
:19:43. > :19:44.between the US and EU countries. Supporters say simply it would make
:19:45. > :19:47.it easier for companies on both sides of the Atlantic to access
:19:48. > :19:52.each other's markets. It is a good idea because
:19:53. > :19:55.firstly our two markets account for a quarter of all global
:19:56. > :20:04.trade and easier means -- and making it easier means we
:20:05. > :20:08.will benefit more collectively, because the economy will receive a
:20:09. > :20:09.boost as a result, and individually as the benefits trickle down to
:20:10. > :20:10.households. And yet no deal has been agreed
:20:11. > :20:13.and there is already Among the arguments
:20:14. > :20:15.critics say because tariffs between the US
:20:16. > :20:18.and the EU are already low, this is more about deregulation
:20:19. > :20:20.and that could impact for example on food standards,
:20:21. > :20:23.the EU having much stricter regulation on things
:20:24. > :20:28.like hormones in animals. The logic of TTIP is
:20:29. > :20:30.removing regulatory barriers, so there is no possibility
:20:31. > :20:37.of raising standards in TTIP. We have had that expectedly said
:20:38. > :20:41.by the UK Government, -- explicitly said by the UK
:20:42. > :20:46.government, so that is clear. It is only about trying to make it
:20:47. > :20:49.easier for big business to trade and invest across the Atlantic,
:20:50. > :20:52.without having to worry about environmental,
:20:53. > :20:53.public health or food Critics also warn that companies
:20:54. > :20:58.would be able to sue foreign governments over claims
:20:59. > :21:00.of unfair treatment and be Essentially they say that
:21:01. > :21:03.could undermine the government's right to regulate in
:21:04. > :21:05.the public's interest. Those involved in negotiations
:21:06. > :21:09.had originally hoped to have a deal by
:21:10. > :21:20.the end of this year. Since the end of the Second World
:21:21. > :21:23.War, there has been a constant liberalisation of trade policy
:21:24. > :21:29.across the world. It is a long way to go, but trade has never been more
:21:30. > :21:33.free in the modern world and it has resulted in a massive increase in
:21:34. > :21:36.global wealth, and trade has brought millions and millions of people out
:21:37. > :21:42.of poverty. Why would we stop that process? I don't think that anyone
:21:43. > :21:47.is saying we should stop the process of trade, we are seeing that TTIP is
:21:48. > :21:51.a very secretive deal which is being hammered out behind closed doors and
:21:52. > :21:54.not even our elected representatives in Parliament are allowed to see
:21:55. > :21:58.what is being agreed to, which is dangerous. This is a treaty which
:21:59. > :22:04.will enshrine corporate rights over the rights of sovereign nations, so
:22:05. > :22:07.with the investor states settlement clause, companies will be able to
:22:08. > :22:11.sue governments for passing laws which they think affect profits.
:22:12. > :22:16.We've seen that already in Germany, where a company is suing the German
:22:17. > :22:18.government because it decided to phase out nuclear power stations
:22:19. > :22:25.after the Fukushima disaster in Japan, and the company invested in
:22:26. > :22:28.that station says it affects their profits. Do you want to sign up to a
:22:29. > :22:32.deal that restricts the ability of the public to decide what policies
:22:33. > :22:38.are government follows? If you raise them ways, they could say it affects
:22:39. > :22:42.profits, and if we do not pursue fracking, they could sue us. We
:22:43. > :22:48.should not give corporations those kind of powers. Does the deal
:22:49. > :22:51.contained these powers? I think there are arguments on both sides.
:22:52. > :22:55.The only way you can hammer out a trade deal that works is to be part
:22:56. > :22:58.of the negotiation and tackle the things you think are unfair and
:22:59. > :23:05.improve the deal. Nicola Sturgeon, for example, who is not exactly a
:23:06. > :23:11.crazy right-winger, has said that she worries about TTIP, but the way
:23:12. > :23:14.to solve those worries is to engage. How are we supposed to engage when
:23:15. > :23:22.the negotiations are conducted in secret? I think TTIP is significant
:23:23. > :23:26.at the moment because people like yourselves, and people on the left
:23:27. > :23:32.of the Labour Party are very against TTIP because they fear the idea of a
:23:33. > :23:36.globalised ruthless, big business, as Kim up in the film, they never
:23:37. > :23:40.talk about small businesses being free to trade more liberally, it is
:23:41. > :23:45.always wicked big business, and this is a problem because it feeds into
:23:46. > :23:49.the referendum campaign. It has been a blind spot on the left. I gather
:23:50. > :23:53.there will be an anti-TTIP process soon with a lot of people from the
:23:54. > :23:56.left of the Labour Party involved. The worry on this issue is that it
:23:57. > :24:00.could cause the left wing of the Labour Party that is not pulling its
:24:01. > :24:08.weight in the running campaign at the moment, maybe if people on the
:24:09. > :24:12.left do not turn up and vote no, maybe they will abstain or not
:24:13. > :24:23.campaign in earnest. -- the Remain campaign. TTIP tells us a lot about
:24:24. > :24:26.the... The trade Commissioner said he does not take his mandate from
:24:27. > :24:29.the European people. She was saying it does not matter if people object
:24:30. > :24:32.to the deal but the EU will force it through anyway. One of the other
:24:33. > :24:35.things the left has to remember is that the European Union is
:24:36. > :24:40.responsible for a bunch of protections for workers. You have to
:24:41. > :24:47.have one and the other. If you are going to protect the idea of
:24:48. > :24:51.economic growth for the member nations, and Andrew made a good case
:24:52. > :24:56.that increasing trade helps everyone and provides jobs, you have to have
:24:57. > :24:59.a balance between tackling excessive regulation and protecting the
:25:00. > :25:01.workforce. I think there is an unhealthy alliance. Though needs to
:25:02. > :25:07.be more transparency. We detail of what has been agreed so
:25:08. > :25:10.that we can test the criticisms, which I think people will be
:25:11. > :25:14.surprised that you have to go that far to have a free trade agreement.
:25:15. > :25:19.And then there is the issue of supernatural courts, that may be
:25:20. > :25:24.beyond democratic control as well. There are genuine grounds for
:25:25. > :25:28.concern. By the impact assessment said that nearly 1 million jobs
:25:29. > :25:34.would be lost in the EU if TTIP was signed. We have seen jobs lost as a
:25:35. > :25:38.result of trade deals in America. As regards workers rights, I think it
:25:39. > :25:41.is very defeatist to say that we cannot fight for those regulations
:25:42. > :25:45.in British law. I think we should be fighting for them in British law and
:25:46. > :25:48.I do not think we should trust and institution which is not accountable
:25:49. > :25:52.to us to protect us. We have to move on.
:25:53. > :25:54.In the general election last year, the Liberal Democrats went
:25:55. > :25:57.from being a party of government to the fourth largest party
:25:58. > :26:01.Nick Clegg promptly resigned, with the current leader Tim Farron
:26:02. > :26:04.With local, national and mayoral elections coming up
:26:05. > :26:07.across the country, Mr Farron will be hoping his leadership
:26:08. > :26:10.is cutting through with the public and that the elections in May
:26:11. > :26:17.will mark the start of a Lib Dem revival.
:26:18. > :26:20.In a moment, we'll talk to the party's London mayoral
:26:21. > :26:22.candidate as the party gathers for its spring conference.
:26:23. > :26:24.First though, here's a reminder of Tim's first nine
:26:25. > :26:34.Our keyboard player rang me up a couple
:26:35. > :26:37.of weeks ago and he said, Tim, we should reform,
:26:38. > :26:41.# I'm just mad about Saffron, she's just mad about me.
:26:42. > :26:53.# They call me mellow yellow. yellow, quite rightly.
:26:54. > :27:00.We now know that coming third is as good as winning.
:27:01. > :27:06.What do you think about the European response so far?
:27:07. > :27:22.And we've been joined by the Lib Dem's candidate
:27:23. > :27:32.Good afternoon. Do you worry that people have stopped taking any
:27:33. > :27:36.notice of your party. I think people are gradually starting to listen to
:27:37. > :27:40.the party again. Over the last year we have seen an increase of 5% in
:27:41. > :27:43.our vote in by-elections across the country and in London we have
:27:44. > :27:47.started to win by-elections including one in Twickenham last
:27:48. > :27:50.year, an area we have never held even when Vince Cable was the MP.
:27:51. > :27:56.People have the confidence to vote for us now and they are starting to
:27:57. > :27:58.listen to what we are saying. As John Major will tell you,
:27:59. > :28:02.performances in by-elections do not tell you how you will do in the
:28:03. > :28:10.general election. Look at the national polls since February. 5%,
:28:11. > :28:17.8%, 6%, 7%, Scottish votes, 5%, 4%. The Welsh votes, 5%. A London
:28:18. > :28:20.mayoral poll, 3%. When I started in the party, we were within the margin
:28:21. > :28:26.of error, so we are certainly ahead of that. We are starting to see our
:28:27. > :28:31.base grow across the country. What is important is that we have seen a
:28:32. > :28:34.growth in membership, tens of thousands of new members, very
:28:35. > :28:39.enthusiastic, and keen to campaign. With an issue like the European
:28:40. > :28:42.referendum coming up, that is key to voting. It is encouraging lots of
:28:43. > :28:49.our members to go out and complain. But even with that you are divided.
:28:50. > :28:54.A former MP is a new vote, liberal leave. -- go out and campaign. We
:28:55. > :28:58.will see at the Spring conference. Members around London are very pro
:28:59. > :29:03.European. Across London, out and in the debates, the field is very wide
:29:04. > :29:07.open. The people out there like what we are saying and they like our
:29:08. > :29:10.ideas. What would be, you have the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh
:29:11. > :29:16.Assembly, the English local elections, the London mayoral, what
:29:17. > :29:21.would be a good result for you? I will not predict results. It is up
:29:22. > :29:25.to the electorate. I was not asking you to predict, I was asking, what
:29:26. > :29:29.would you regard, if you achieved it, as evidence of your claim that
:29:30. > :29:32.you are on the way back? I would like to see our vote go up clearly
:29:33. > :29:37.and I would like to see us with elected members of the Welsh
:29:38. > :29:40.Assembly, and the London assembly, and winning seats across the country
:29:41. > :29:44.in council elections. I am not going to pretend that our party will grow
:29:45. > :29:48.overnight to be a big party of government. It will take time but we
:29:49. > :29:51.are seeing the signs that we are moving in the right direction. Is it
:29:52. > :29:58.a generational struggle? It might be. It might be five
:29:59. > :30:03.-- it might be fives portends a dramatic years but people are
:30:04. > :30:07.wanting to hear what we have to say. Particularly when you have a Labour
:30:08. > :30:11.Party slipping to the left and the Conservative party going to the
:30:12. > :30:14.right there is open and central ground, and people are willing to
:30:15. > :30:18.listen to us and that is what I am finding on the doorsteps in London.
:30:19. > :30:24.Who should your voters give their second preferences to in London? My
:30:25. > :30:28.job is not to promote the other candidates, I am after Lib Dem votes
:30:29. > :30:33.for the mayor of London and for the London assembly. If people like what
:30:34. > :30:37.we are saying, I want a vote on the orange ballot paper to get Lib Dems
:30:38. > :30:43.elected. But if you only get what the polls predict, you will only end
:30:44. > :30:48.up with about 3% in London, a famously liberal, multicultural
:30:49. > :30:53.city, then that would be a bit of a blow for the Lib Dems, wouldn't it?
:30:54. > :30:57.We have some way to go. We got below 5% in the last election so we have
:30:58. > :31:04.to grow in London. I have to say, the feedback when I am out in
:31:05. > :31:07.London, the feedback to having a female candidate with eight years
:31:08. > :31:12.experience in City Hall, able to discuss issues and come up with
:31:13. > :31:18.solutions, we are hoping to get a good result in May.
:31:19. > :31:26.With the Spring conference, it has been 300 days in the wilderness now,
:31:27. > :31:31.what will be the big idea? The party will be debating policy, one member,
:31:32. > :31:35.one bird, everybody has got something to say. That is the
:31:36. > :31:42.process. I have got a private renter's motion making sure that
:31:43. > :31:46.people get protection in terms of landlords, having to register them,
:31:47. > :31:51.so they are proper and meeting all the standards, and making sure we
:31:52. > :31:55.get rid of rib of letting these, those other sorts of discussions we
:31:56. > :32:01.will be having. How do you assess the Lib Dems 300 days on the
:32:02. > :32:06.disaster? Caroline is a valiant fight and I wish her luck. The
:32:07. > :32:11.problem for the Lib Dems is that so much depends on what the other
:32:12. > :32:15.parties are doing. As we saw in a seat like Twickenham with Vince
:32:16. > :32:19.cable, people will not vote Lib Dem if they worry about the Labour
:32:20. > :32:23.leader getting into Downing Street. Until that changes and until there
:32:24. > :32:28.is another political poll on the left that does not frighten voters,
:32:29. > :32:33.Lib Dems will have trouble breaking through in any major way. That is
:32:34. > :32:37.something over which they have not got control. But they have to keep
:32:38. > :32:46.plugging away and I am pleased there is a female candidate for the Lib
:32:47. > :32:52.Dems. Not the first one. What advice have you got for the Lib Dems? The
:32:53. > :33:01.morning Star makes the Lib Dems Ludwig. I think that Harold Wilson
:33:02. > :33:07.said if you stay in the middle of the road, you get run over. Because
:33:08. > :33:11.the economy is failing people who are worried about their jobs and
:33:12. > :33:16.futures, we are seeing a political polarisation in this country and the
:33:17. > :33:20.US with Donald Trump and so on. I think the idea Labour is going left
:33:21. > :33:26.and the Tories are going right is not a celebration for the Liberal
:33:27. > :33:32.Democrats. No, it is not. The voters are demanding radical solutions.
:33:33. > :33:39.People were enthusiastic about the Lib Dems in the 2010 election. Thank
:33:40. > :33:41.you for being with us, we will see you during the mayoral campaign.
:33:42. > :33:45.It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz.
:33:46. > :33:47.The question was, President Obama has criticised David Cameron
:33:48. > :33:49.for becoming distracted and allowing what to deteriorate?
:33:50. > :33:51.Was it the Special Relationship, the situation in Libya,
:33:52. > :33:53.British relations with the rest of the EU,
:33:54. > :34:01.So, Miranda and Ben, what's the correct answer?
:34:02. > :34:11.Libya. Libya. That is the correct answer. I saw some of the diplomatic
:34:12. > :34:17.Corps trying to play this down, but they are quite remarkable, is by the
:34:18. > :34:23.President. They really are, particularly the ones with asterisks
:34:24. > :34:32.in. Was he swearing? Yes, he was, although I do not know if there are
:34:33. > :34:36.quoted. It is the Atlantic magazine. What has happened in Libya since the
:34:37. > :34:43.fall of Gaddafi has been a total catastrophe. It is yet another
:34:44. > :34:47.example of the intervention were toppling the dictator works, but
:34:48. > :34:48.afterwards there is no plan of substance. We will have to leave it
:34:49. > :34:54.Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been
:34:55. > :34:59.For now it's time to say goodbye to my two guests of the day,
:35:00. > :35:04.So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe.
:35:05. > :35:06.We'll be discussing the migrant crisis, David Cameron's EU reform
:35:07. > :35:10.First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe
:35:11. > :35:17.On Monday the EU and Turkey agreed a plan to ease the migrant crisis.
:35:18. > :35:22.All migrants arriving in Greece from Turkey will be returned,
:35:23. > :35:25.but for every Syrian sent back a Syrian already in Turkey will be
:35:26. > :35:31.The European Commission warned France and Italy that their economic
:35:32. > :35:34.weaknesses risked destabilising the other economies
:35:35. > :35:41.EU states want to tax e-cigarettes in the same way as their tobacco
:35:42. > :35:44.counterpart, but the vaping lobby says it punishes
:35:45. > :35:51.Leaders of the Conservative Party's group in the European Parliament
:35:52. > :35:54.asked members of the German anti-immigration AFD to leave
:35:55. > :36:01.the group after comments made about using guns against immigrants.
:36:02. > :36:05.And a limousine service for the European Parliament
:36:06. > :36:09.is in doubt after MEPs questioned the 3 million euros cost.
:36:10. > :36:21.Drivers' uniforms alone add up to 116,000 euros a year.
:36:22. > :36:24.And with us for the next thirty minutes I've been joined
:36:25. > :36:26.by the Conservative MEP Charles Tannock, and the SNP MEP
:36:27. > :36:31.Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail,
:36:32. > :36:33.the idea of a new car service to transport MEPs around
:36:34. > :36:46.Looking forward to be chauffeur driven in the back of a limousine?
:36:47. > :36:51.These are proposals and there is an existing car service and there are a
:36:52. > :36:55.lot of MEP is going back and forth to the airport, so the Parliament
:36:56. > :37:00.has a fleet of minibuses and there is a security question there as
:37:01. > :37:06.well. But these are proposals and they have been shelved and we will
:37:07. > :37:10.vote against them. It will not happen? I do not think so. It will
:37:11. > :37:16.only happen if the European Parliament agrees to it? The
:37:17. > :37:20.proposal was reported in every single newspaper. The fact it has
:37:21. > :37:27.not been shelved has not been mentioned at all. It has now. The
:37:28. > :37:31.security a concern? Nobody knows who you are. No, it is the security of
:37:32. > :37:38.the drivers who are not vetted properly. They wanted to bring their
:37:39. > :37:44.employment in house so they could be fully screened. That would make
:37:45. > :37:47.sense. But the costs are too high and the Conservatives will be
:37:48. > :37:53.submitting an amendment, so I think it is highly unlikely it will go
:37:54. > :38:02.through. So we can kill it now dead. Hopefully dead. You hear all the
:38:03. > :38:07.news here. All the big stuff. You can use the cards. You could not
:38:08. > :38:10.wait to get that point in, they are not here to defend themselves.
:38:11. > :38:18.Angela Merkel has proposed deal to Under the plan, Turkey would take
:38:19. > :38:25.back migrants crossing In return the EU would resettle
:38:26. > :38:30.Syrian refugees directly from Turkey, pay Turkey around
:38:31. > :38:33.6 billion euros and agree to visa-free travel for Turkish
:38:34. > :38:35.citizens in the Schengen Mrs Merkel didn't include
:38:36. > :38:39.the president of the European Council, Donald Tusk but he's
:38:40. > :38:43.going along with it nevertheless. The Prime Minister confirmed
:38:44. > :38:46.Turkey's commitments to accept the rapid return of
:38:47. > :38:48.all migrants coming from Turkey to Greece that are not
:38:49. > :38:52.in need of international protection. The EU will support Greece
:38:53. > :38:56.in ensuring comprehensive, large-scale and fast
:38:57. > :39:02.track returns to Turkey. We also welcome the establishment
:39:03. > :39:04.of the Nato activity in the Aegean Sea and
:39:05. > :39:07.we look forward to its contribution to enhance intelligence
:39:08. > :39:13.and surveillance with a view And we've been joined
:39:14. > :39:30.by the UKIP MEP Diane James. What do you make of this deal? There
:39:31. > :39:34.is never going to be a good deal because it is a humanitarian crisis.
:39:35. > :39:39.On the one hand we are worried about what is going on in Turkey. This
:39:40. > :39:44.week a man was shot, said the government is doing a lot of stuff
:39:45. > :39:49.we are vocal about criticising. On the other hand, Turkey has been a
:39:50. > :39:54.key partner in hosting 2.6 million refugees and they need support for
:39:55. > :39:59.that. On the migration question, our priority has to be to keep people
:40:00. > :40:04.safe. We can keep them safe in our country or in Turkey by supporting
:40:05. > :40:09.the Turks to do that. We are finally seeing some progress towards a
:40:10. > :40:14.political solution in Syria which. People being refugees. That could be
:40:15. > :40:22.a long way down the road. Dealing with Syrian refugees trying to get
:40:23. > :40:26.into Turkey now. What do you think? Turkey has the upper hand and it
:40:27. > :40:29.controls the flow of migrants leaving its territory crossing into
:40:30. > :40:33.Greece and we have to do a deal with Turkey, irrespective of the nature
:40:34. > :40:38.of the current government and I am a critic of President Erdogan in terms
:40:39. > :40:44.of repression and arresting journalists. We are going to give 6
:40:45. > :40:49.billion euros to an authoritarian president? We have no choice because
:40:50. > :40:54.people are choosing that route to the Balkans and it is only by Turkey
:40:55. > :40:59.stabilising the refugees that we can stop the large flow into Europe.
:41:00. > :41:04.What makes you think the Turkish people will not just pocket the six
:41:05. > :41:09.billion and nothing will happen. There is a risk and it has to be
:41:10. > :41:13.closely monitored. If that was the case, it would be immediately
:41:14. > :41:19.suspended as a deal. At the moment Turkey is demanding a heavy price,
:41:20. > :41:24.these liberalisation, the lifting on the blockage for negotiating EU
:41:25. > :41:28.accession, that is pretty controversial. I understand, but it
:41:29. > :41:34.looks like Angela Merkel wants the European Union to do it. What is
:41:35. > :41:40.your view? It is typical German bullying which we are used to end
:41:41. > :41:44.the Parliament. Mr Schultz made the point that the EU needs Turkey and
:41:45. > :41:48.the Turkey needs the EU and you could not have a clearer message if
:41:49. > :41:53.you wanted it. This will fast-track Turkey in terms of accession into
:41:54. > :41:58.the EU, which all of the political parties except Ukip have supported,
:41:59. > :42:05.and David Cameron in particular are supported Turkey's membership. It is
:42:06. > :42:09.unclear when they will get it. In terms of their time frame what I
:42:10. > :42:13.have picked up this week is it has gone from a 10-year time frame to a
:42:14. > :42:23.time frame within this five-year Parliament. That is nonsense. I am a
:42:24. > :42:26.wrap on Turner dashed raconteur for Montenegro and it poses no problem
:42:27. > :42:32.for entering the European Union and it will not enter the European
:42:33. > :42:40.Union. Turkey entering in five years is nonsense. It is subject to each
:42:41. > :42:43.member state's National Parliament ratifying the access them, so our
:42:44. > :42:47.sovereign in the House of Commond would have to say yes and it would
:42:48. > :42:52.require the British Government and parliament to agree to it. Angela
:42:53. > :42:55.Merkel did not consult David Cameron over the deal she put on the table
:42:56. > :43:02.this week and this is the second time she has done this in terms of
:43:03. > :43:06.28 member states. There is another summit which will sign it off and we
:43:07. > :43:12.will be able to have our say on it as well. One of the key issues,
:43:13. > :43:17.which has not come up yet, if this is Angela Merkel trying to satisfy
:43:18. > :43:26.domestic agenda well. This is for the Schengen zone. Why should David
:43:27. > :43:31.Cameron...? The agreement said it apply to all members. That was
:43:32. > :43:37.clearly wrong. There is a part I do not understand. The proposed deal,
:43:38. > :43:41.the Angela Merkel proposal at the moment, is that those Syrians and
:43:42. > :43:46.other refugees or asylum seekers are economic migrants who have made it
:43:47. > :43:51.to Greece will be returned to Turkey and then the Syrians will be picked
:43:52. > :43:56.out, processed and bit by bit they will be sent back in a more
:43:57. > :44:03.legitimate way. How in a democracy like Greece to you forcibly return
:44:04. > :44:07.migrants? That is where there are legal questions about this proposal.
:44:08. > :44:13.The idea that you can throw people back to what may not be a country.
:44:14. > :44:21.Which is an equal signatory to the Geneva Convention. The UNHCR
:44:22. > :44:29.representative expressed his doubts on the proposals. The support Turkey
:44:30. > :44:35.will get to provide a safe haven we have our doubts over that. I am not
:44:36. > :44:41.just talking about the legality, I am talking about the practicality of
:44:42. > :44:47.a situation. We have got pictures they are of migrants in camps. Are
:44:48. > :44:52.we seriously going to do it? Who will do it? Will the Greek police
:44:53. > :45:04.moved in with guns? The European Union will be providing a additional
:45:05. > :45:08.help, for example Europol. These people have risked their lives to
:45:09. > :45:13.get out of Turkey and into Greece. If you are not Syrian, you have no
:45:14. > :45:20.hope of getting back. You get sent to Turkey. Why would they say, we
:45:21. > :45:25.are not moving? Returning migrants is a challenging task, but that has
:45:26. > :45:29.been agreed and it will be up to the authorities to implement this. Are
:45:30. > :45:35.we going to see the European Union round-up refugees and force them
:45:36. > :45:38.onto boats in their thousands? Is that your proposition? I am only
:45:39. > :45:44.saying what I read in the agreement in which it has been stated
:45:45. > :45:49.categorically that people who are illegal and irregular who come from
:45:50. > :45:53.countries other than Syria like Afghanistan and Eritrea, and they
:45:54. > :45:57.have come from camps where they were established with asylum pleased that
:45:58. > :46:03.had already been accepted, that they have no right to automatically be
:46:04. > :46:07.granted territorial rights in the European Union and they have to go
:46:08. > :46:14.back. How they implement that I do not know, that is up to them.
:46:15. > :46:20.In a referendum campaign. It does, there is no doubt in my mind.
:46:21. > :46:25.Neither of my counterparts had even urged upon the bill to the United
:46:26. > :46:30.Kingdom, ?500 million. Not a huge amount of the UK budget. What would
:46:31. > :46:35.your solution be? We're running out of time and there are two of you and
:46:36. > :46:40.one of her. I will give you the last work. -- I will give you the last
:46:41. > :46:44.word. It helps the Brexit campaign and the Eurosceptic movement across
:46:45. > :46:48.Europe. We have seen responses to that already. The point you made was
:46:49. > :46:52.critical. How on earth is this going to be enforceable? This is going to
:46:53. > :46:56.be a migration merry-go-round, bringing people in, sending them
:46:57. > :47:02.back, and who will marshal it and make it happen? It is the usual EU
:47:03. > :47:04.nonsense. Well, give us a solution. That'll have to wait for another
:47:05. > :47:05.programme. You. We've seen plenty of fall-out
:47:06. > :47:08.in Britain since David Cameron But what about the people
:47:09. > :47:13.who will get to vote on it? No, not the British public,
:47:14. > :47:16.the MEPs in the European Parliament who will be able to amend
:47:17. > :47:19.the proposals and vote on the plan. It is the first time MEPs have met
:47:20. > :47:34.here in Strasbourg since EU leaders rustled up David Cameron's
:47:35. > :47:36.referendum hors d'oeuvre, They signed it off but could MEPs
:47:37. > :47:40.rip the deal to bits I don't think that MEPs will change
:47:41. > :47:44.it because they understand Would you imagine the Commons not
:47:45. > :47:47.having a say on legislation We are in charge of making
:47:48. > :47:51.legislation for the EU So is the stage set
:47:52. > :47:56.for a European Parliament showdown And there is a weariness among MEPs
:47:57. > :48:03.about the British question, They want the show to be over,
:48:04. > :48:09.one way or another. Lots of the deal that David Cameron
:48:10. > :48:13.agreed with EU leaders does not need In particular, the plan to curb
:48:14. > :48:23.in work benefits that workers So, too, the idea of linking child
:48:24. > :48:29.benefit payments to EU citizens in the UK to the cost
:48:30. > :48:31.of living in the country The president of the European
:48:32. > :48:35.Parliament didn't rule out the possibility of changes
:48:36. > :48:39.when the plans are produced. Our road starts when a Yes
:48:40. > :48:49.vote has a majority. Then the European Parliament
:48:50. > :48:50.will start immediately This is a question of the draft
:48:51. > :48:55.proposal of the commission. It is much too early
:48:56. > :48:57.to answer that question. But he is careful not to say
:48:58. > :49:00.anything that could fuel Like most MEPs, he wants
:49:01. > :49:03.the UK to remain in, This parliament can substantially
:49:04. > :49:09.water down and will substantially water down any changes to benefits
:49:10. > :49:12.that the UK pays to people And other MEPs second his view that
:49:13. > :49:19.benefit changes are not signed off. The UK decided not to change
:49:20. > :49:21.its own rules on in-work This is one of the main
:49:22. > :49:29.ambiguities of the settlement. And I am not happy for the British
:49:30. > :49:36.people because we have to be fair. When people are going to vote
:49:37. > :49:38.in the referendum, the conditions But Madame Goulard,
:49:39. > :49:44.an enthusiastic Federalist, looks set to be outnumbered by MEPs
:49:45. > :49:51.who think the best thing to do There is a positive attitude
:49:52. > :49:56.in the house on this emergency brake We have to solve the British issue
:49:57. > :50:02.once and for all because we cannot continue with decades
:50:03. > :50:14.and decades of discussion. I asked a Conservative MEP if she
:50:15. > :50:18.could guarantee the deal being sold to UK voters could be delivered.
:50:19. > :50:21.I am getting MEPs saying, what can I do to help?
:50:22. > :50:24.I am number checking and listening to what they are saying.
:50:25. > :50:26.We don't need Le Pen or Nigel Farage's vote.
:50:27. > :50:29.We need 376 votes in that parliament and the vast majority of the MEPs
:50:30. > :50:33.are saying we want to keep the Brits in, they do not want to rock
:50:34. > :50:40.And it seems that while many MEPs are tired of what they view
:50:41. > :50:43.as British special pleading, they do not want the UK heading
:50:44. > :50:56.Is it possible that we could vote to remain at the European Parliament
:50:57. > :51:06.could then change elements of the deal that Mr Cameron has done? No.
:51:07. > :51:09.Because? It is flat nonsense. There are agreements among the member
:51:10. > :51:14.states that the deal was necessary. But there is no desire among anybody
:51:15. > :51:17.serious. Even from my own party's perspective, this is not the deal we
:51:18. > :51:22.thought was necessary but if it is the price of continued membership
:51:23. > :51:26.for Scotland, we can live with it and it is workable. The MEPs will be
:51:27. > :51:29.pragmatic about this stuff. It is right that the European Parliament
:51:30. > :51:32.has a say on this because there are implications for the wider community
:51:33. > :51:37.but it is going to go through and it will not be changed. It is a red
:51:38. > :51:46.herring. Nigel Farage was trying a bit of project fear there? He is not
:51:47. > :51:55.alone these days. My colleague Vicky Ford was spot on. There is no doubt
:51:56. > :52:04.that the PPP or VCR, my group, more than half of the Socialists as well,
:52:05. > :52:08.that is an in-built majority -- Cammack. It will be interesting to
:52:09. > :52:12.see if Ukip tries to sabotage it after the vote against national
:52:13. > :52:18.interest. I'm not a member of the extreme right and do not appreciate
:52:19. > :52:22.that. I don't doubt that the vast majority of MEPs will vote to keep
:52:23. > :52:27.this in. The reason they will do that is that we contribute so much
:52:28. > :52:31.in terms of the budget contribution to the European Union and they
:52:32. > :52:34.cannot afford to let the UK walk away. But when it comes down to it,
:52:35. > :52:40.ultimately whatever decision the MEPs, with, it is voters in the
:52:41. > :52:44.United Kingdom who have already seen what is on the table and they have
:52:45. > :52:48.voiced their concerns. It is why the polls are running as close as they
:52:49. > :52:52.are. I understand that and we will have plenty of time to talk more
:52:53. > :52:56.about that between now and June 23, but what I was trying to zoom in on
:52:57. > :53:00.at the moment, although constitutionally it would be
:53:01. > :53:04.possible that the European Parliament could make changes or
:53:05. > :53:08.knock down some of it, in practice, given the majorities, it is not
:53:09. > :53:14.going to happen. So in their words, in practical terms it is a red
:53:15. > :53:21.herring? I would say so, yes. Thank you for agreeing. We appreciate the
:53:22. > :53:26.Ukip support. I will not be putting it through. Speaking personally, I
:53:27. > :53:31.think it is up a deal that David Cameron has brought back. It -- it
:53:32. > :53:33.is a poor deal and that David Cameron has brought back. It suits
:53:34. > :53:35.Europhile MEPs. It's the most easterly member
:53:36. > :53:39.of the European Union, half an island to the south
:53:40. > :53:43.of Turkey in the Mediterranean Sea. For the latest in our series
:53:44. > :53:46.of films profiling other EU member states, Adam Fleming
:53:47. > :53:58.reports from Cyprus. Nicosia is Europe's
:53:59. > :54:03.last divided capital. On the other, with a massive flag
:54:04. > :54:09.on the hill, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which
:54:10. > :54:11.is just a short border There you go, a quick swipe
:54:12. > :54:20.of the passport and I come across the border
:54:21. > :54:21.into northern Cyprus. It is not exactly
:54:22. > :54:24.Deutschland '83, is it? Each side feels pretty distinctive
:54:25. > :54:28.and there are signs of the division all along what is known
:54:29. > :54:36.as the Green Line. It has mostly been like this
:54:37. > :54:41.since 1974 when Turkey invaded the island, fearing
:54:42. > :54:43.it would be united with Greece, which was led
:54:44. > :54:51.by a military junta at the time. Nowadays both sides are separated
:54:52. > :54:53.by this slightly spooky buffer zone where you will find
:54:54. > :54:56.Nicosia's abandoned airport. The buffer zone is policed
:54:57. > :54:58.by United Nations peacekeepers, like Major Robert
:54:59. > :55:01.Saxon from Slovakia. To your friends back home
:55:02. > :55:04.in Slovakia who say what on earth are you doing in Cyprus,
:55:05. > :55:09.what do you tell them? When you are deployed
:55:10. > :55:12.here then you try to find out, or you have a chance to find
:55:13. > :55:15.out, how deep is this Then you can understand how
:55:16. > :55:20.important is the presence It does not matter if they are from
:55:21. > :55:26.Slovakia or other states, but we really need to be
:55:27. > :55:29.here and just keep this stable environment here
:55:30. > :55:33.until there is a final And unlike this old plane,
:55:34. > :55:38.the peace process finally The leaders of both communities meet
:55:39. > :55:43.every other week and officials negotiate three times a week,
:55:44. > :55:49.but negotiate over what? The governments and the way
:55:50. > :55:51.the executive, the legislature, the judiciary, will be
:55:52. > :55:53.functioning in this new system How are we going to take decisions
:55:54. > :56:09.within the European Union? How are we going to transpose
:56:10. > :56:12.EU law into a united Then there is the economy
:56:13. > :56:15.chapter which means how are we going to regulate
:56:16. > :56:19.the taxation and the revenues? How will that be
:56:20. > :56:20.redistributed to the entire Then we have the issue
:56:21. > :56:26.of properties, a very complicated After the events of 1974,
:56:27. > :56:32.many Turkish Cypriots who used to live in the south
:56:33. > :56:34.moved to the north and the Greek Cypriots who used
:56:35. > :56:37.to live in the north moved to the south leaving
:56:38. > :56:40.behind their properties. And now the remaining
:56:41. > :56:43.chapters that have not yet been touched
:56:44. > :56:48.is the territorial issue. Where exactly is the border
:56:49. > :56:53.between North and South and what happens to the thousands
:56:54. > :56:56.of Turkish troops stationed But everyone involved reckons
:56:57. > :57:02.there will be a deal by the end of this year which would then go
:57:03. > :57:05.to a referendum on both sides After more than 40 years Nicosia
:57:06. > :57:24.might not be divided Cyprus now has more resonance with
:57:25. > :57:28.all the talk of Turkey. Absolutely. Cyprus is a Commonwealth country,
:57:29. > :57:35.and it has the sovereign basis, so it is a very important country form
:57:36. > :57:39.a British perspective. And they feel particularly squeezed over the
:57:40. > :57:45.turkey deal because there is pressure from the Gannon for Cyprus
:57:46. > :57:52.to lift its veto, because Turkey has never implemented the 2005 protocols
:57:53. > :57:57.which recognise Cyprus. -- pressure from Erdogan. I feel particularly
:57:58. > :58:00.sorry for the president who has two sell a package on the unification
:58:01. > :58:07.deal at the same time as having to cooperate over the migrant question
:58:08. > :58:11.with Europe. They should be decoupled, and not linked by Mr
:58:12. > :58:14.Erdogan. It will be interesting to see what we do with the economic
:58:15. > :58:19.migrants and refugees, asylum seekers stranded on the sovereign
:58:20. > :58:24.basis. Is that going to be part of the discussion? It goes back to the
:58:25. > :58:28.heart of the deal that Turkey struck with the EU this week. What happens
:58:29. > :58:34.there? A final thought in ten seconds? The island of Cyprus, for
:58:35. > :58:37.it to be reunited would be a glorious project and I think the EU
:58:38. > :58:41.can get a result and we will see progress. I have met with both sides
:58:42. > :58:49.a number of times and I think there is an impetus to get a deal done. It
:58:50. > :58:53.will take a wider profile of things. A good piece of good news for 2016.
:58:54. > :59:00.We could do with some good news. Next to all of my guests. That is it
:59:01. > :59:10.for Politics Europe. We hope to see you soon. Bye-bye.
:59:11. > :59:14.You and I, we're going to change this country.
:59:15. > :59:18.You run and, hopefully, win elected office.
:59:19. > :59:21.Not just for the sake of being something
:59:22. > :59:26.I knew that seven presidents had tried, seven presidents had failed.
:59:27. > :59:30.He said, "I am President of the United States