:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:40.After the Business Secretary Sajid Javid says
:00:41. > :00:43.the Government is willing to co-invest in the Port Talbot
:00:44. > :00:47.steelworks to keep it open, MPs hold an emergency debate
:00:48. > :00:52.on the crisis facing the UK's steel industry.
:00:53. > :00:55.as the new Work and Pensions Secretary.
:00:56. > :01:01.We'll assess the challenges he faces on welfare reform.
:01:02. > :01:03.The Government's ?9 million pro-EU leaflet
:01:04. > :01:07.starts dropping through letterboxes across the UK - and provokes
:01:08. > :01:12.a wave of hostility on the Conservative backbenches.
:01:13. > :01:16.And the most unlikely star of musical theatre - Jeremy Corbyn.
:01:17. > :01:28.We take a peak at Corbyn The Musical, which opens tonight.
:01:29. > :01:33.# I didn't sell out, I didn't live in
:01:34. > :01:39.# You need a hero, you got Corbin #. All that in the next hour
:01:40. > :01:42.and with us for the whole of the programme today is the former
:01:43. > :01:55.Conservative MP and Work What's life like on the outside?
:01:56. > :01:58.It's not quite 24/7, seven days a week, so slightly more time back to
:01:59. > :02:03.myself, but pursuing things that I want to do with a view, which I've
:02:04. > :02:06.always said, to go back into the housing 2020. Obviously I love
:02:07. > :02:10.place. You must've been surprised at the time. There can't have been much
:02:11. > :02:13.time to plan for life outside because this was a night when the
:02:14. > :02:19.Tories, your party, did better than most people expected but you lost
:02:20. > :02:22.your seat. It wasn't a surprise. If you followed the Merseyside
:02:23. > :02:26.election, the fact that it's taken me ten years to win their... It was
:02:27. > :02:30.always going to be a difficult seat for a Conservative minister to win
:02:31. > :02:35.on Merseyside. But interestingly, I did actually increased my vote by to
:02:36. > :02:40.present from when I won in 2010. I got 2000 extra votes. So it was
:02:41. > :02:44.interesting, the tactics that Labour used both in rural western Chester,
:02:45. > :02:48.the only two seats they won, and that was that the Greens aligned and
:02:49. > :02:52.did a deal with Labour not to stand in Wirral West, otherwise I would
:02:53. > :02:56.have won because I would have taken 3%. It was a couple of hundred
:02:57. > :03:00.votes. It was very, very close because it went to a recount or sub
:03:01. > :03:05.I think you asked for a recount on the night. I didn't ask but it did
:03:06. > :03:08.go because it was so close. We won actually on the vote but it was the
:03:09. > :03:13.flood of postal votes that came in that changed it and hence there was
:03:14. > :03:19.a recount. You must be missing the place if you want to be involved
:03:20. > :03:24.again in politics? I said on the night that I wanted to come back.
:03:25. > :03:29.There I was, part of the government that had delivered 2 million more
:03:30. > :03:33.people into work, part of their team and I'd had a wonderful time there.
:03:34. > :03:39.I'd taken ten years to get into politics because I wanted to go back
:03:40. > :03:44.to my home turf, Merseyside, which, for anybody, is a tough place to be,
:03:45. > :03:48.but you got to love the area, love the place, so yes I do aim to be
:03:49. > :03:52.back in 2020 but it's a long journey and a tough journey so we'll see
:03:53. > :03:56.what happens. In the meantime? Taking up most of my time at the
:03:57. > :04:00.moment is an organisation that I'm working with with the British
:04:01. > :04:04.Transport Police authority and I work with inner-city children on
:04:05. > :04:08.careers, an role models, on how to get their foot in the door, so
:04:09. > :04:12.supporting people with career options and that is something I've
:04:13. > :04:16.done for 15 years and I'm able to carry that on. It's good to have you
:04:17. > :04:19.here, Esther McVey, and we'll talk more about your previous brief.
:04:20. > :04:23.And today we're giving you a different kind of teaser -
:04:24. > :04:32.I said to him he didn't write off the mortgage of the won the
:04:33. > :04:33.taxpayers were helping to pay for at Oxford.
:04:34. > :04:35.I didn't receive a proper answer then.
:04:36. > :04:41.That was the Labour MP Dennis Skinner speaking in the House
:04:42. > :04:48.At the end of the show Esther will, I'm sure, give us the correct
:04:49. > :04:52.In the next hour, MPs will begin an emergency debate
:04:53. > :04:55.on the UK steel industry, after Tata Steel announced a month
:04:56. > :04:58.ago that they would be selling their UK plants.
:04:59. > :05:02.Yesterday, the company confirmed the sale of its Scunthorpe plant
:05:03. > :05:05.to Greybull Capital for a token ?1, and the Business Secretary
:05:06. > :05:09.Sajid Javid told the Commons that the Government was working very
:05:10. > :05:11.hard to find a buyer for the Port Talbot
:05:12. > :05:16.Among options being considered, he said, was the possibility
:05:17. > :05:27.of co-investing with a buyer on commercial terms.
:05:28. > :05:29.Last month, Tata announced its intention to sell the plant
:05:30. > :05:31.and its wider UK assets, rather than to close it.
:05:32. > :05:34.Since then, I have continued to meet with its executives
:05:35. > :05:38.I've been joined in this by my right honourable friend the Secretary
:05:39. > :05:40.of State for Wales and my right honourable friend
:05:41. > :05:43.And we've secured assurances that Tata will be a responsible seller
:05:44. > :05:47.and will allow appropriate time to find a buyer.
:05:48. > :05:50.The formal sales process begins today.
:05:51. > :05:53.I've been in contact with potential buyers,
:05:54. > :05:56.making clear that the Government stands ready to help.
:05:57. > :06:00.This includes looking at the possibility of co-investing
:06:01. > :06:06.We've been joined from Central Lobby in the Houses of Parliament
:06:07. > :06:11.The Port Talbot steelworks are in his constituency.
:06:12. > :06:14.And we did ask the Department for Business for an interview
:06:15. > :06:21.with a minister about this, but none was available.
:06:22. > :06:27.Stephen Kinnock, watched you make of Sajid Javid's statement yesterday?
:06:28. > :06:31.Were you surprised by his suggestion of co-investing in the Port Talbot
:06:32. > :06:36.plant? Well, it left more questions than answers. I think we need
:06:37. > :06:39.clarity on what that means. We pushed the Secretary of State in the
:06:40. > :06:43.debate for more clarity and it didn't really come. I think we
:06:44. > :06:47.should just be absolutely clear that we need to do everything that we can
:06:48. > :06:51.now to get a good buyer for the business but if that doesn't work,
:06:52. > :06:56.the Government has to be ready to step in with a time bound, costed
:06:57. > :07:01.nationalisation, just to ensure that enough time is in place for a good
:07:02. > :07:05.buyer to come forward. What does co-investment mean to you, then? Is
:07:06. > :07:09.that really fulfilling some of the objectives that you've just ate it?
:07:10. > :07:11.There would perhaps be some time bound investment by the government
:07:12. > :07:17.until either a full-scale buyer could be found or, at least, it was
:07:18. > :07:21.becoming profitable again? There's a range of actions they can take, from
:07:22. > :07:26.giving a soft loan to Tata Steel to helping with energy cost, with our
:07:27. > :07:30.rent D, even to stepping on the pension. -- with research and
:07:31. > :07:34.develop. This lack of clarity is not helping the sales process. We need
:07:35. > :07:37.to ensure that we maximise the attractiveness of the deal for
:07:38. > :07:41.potential buyers and the shambolic approach that we've seen from the
:07:42. > :07:46.Government so far was compounded yesterday by what the Business
:07:47. > :07:49.Secretary said. We need that clarity and in the debate today we need to
:07:50. > :07:53.see a really clear statement. What does he mean by co-investment? What
:07:54. > :07:56.is the Government prepared to do? What is it not prepared to do?
:07:57. > :08:00.Potential buyers out there need to know and the customer base that they
:08:01. > :08:04.currently have for the Tata Steel business really needs to know. How
:08:05. > :08:08.long do you think this process can go on for, this search for a buyer?
:08:09. > :08:12.There will come a point, weren't there, when Tata will say it's
:08:13. > :08:16.enough? My understanding is that they are offering two blocks of
:08:17. > :08:19.eight weeks now, so a total 16 week process with expressions of interest
:08:20. > :08:24.in the first period and then Judah the gems on preferred buyers in the
:08:25. > :08:27.second. If you look at the sale of Long kart product in Scunthorpe,
:08:28. > :08:32.that took nine months at least from end to end. This 16 week process is
:08:33. > :08:35.very tight and one of the reasons it is so tight is because the
:08:36. > :08:38.government has been asleep at the wheel and has been having the
:08:39. > :08:41.conversation is an advance that it should have been having, knowing
:08:42. > :08:46.that a possible so was coming. Sajid Javid should have been with me in
:08:47. > :08:49.Mumbai. Instead, he was jetting off to Australia, so I think that shows
:08:50. > :08:54.the priorities were not right and they have been asleep at the wheel.
:08:55. > :08:58.But it did come as a bolt out of the blue. Nobody was expecting the
:08:59. > :09:03.announcement from Tata Steel. Well, hang on. Yesterday sided Davitt said
:09:04. > :09:05.both the all-party group and in the debate that he was one that
:09:06. > :09:11.persuaded Tata Steel not to close but to go for a sale. -- Sajid Javid
:09:12. > :09:15.said. How can he say that it came as a bolt out of the blue and then try
:09:16. > :09:18.to claim the credit for something yesterday, waste on long-term
:09:19. > :09:22.negotiations? Something in this just doesn't add up. But what's also
:09:23. > :09:29.worrying is that I pressed the Secretary of State yesterday. What
:09:30. > :09:32.is he doing to daughter Nissan, Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, the key
:09:33. > :09:34.customer base that is the lifeblood of the Port Talbot steelworks and
:09:35. > :09:39.all of the steelworks across the country? The answer was very
:09:40. > :09:41.wishy-washy. He needs to pick up the phone and start reassuring that
:09:42. > :09:46.customer base and his lack of action on that was very worrying. But how
:09:47. > :09:50.do you make this industry appear more attractive, as you said? How do
:09:51. > :09:54.you make it attractive to a potential buyer if, in the
:09:55. > :09:58.long-term, it's just not going to be viable? What evidence do you have
:09:59. > :10:02.that it will ever be viable if there was going to be a continuation of
:10:03. > :10:05.cheap Chinese steel imports? On the cheap imports, what we also need is
:10:06. > :10:09.a government that is prepared to stand up. The, rather than roll out
:10:10. > :10:12.the red carpet for Beijing. They have been blocking the European
:10:13. > :10:15.Commission's attempts to make anti-dumping measures more
:10:16. > :10:20.effective, so there is one big problem there. The trading... There
:10:21. > :10:24.isn't a level playing field and that's because the British
:10:25. > :10:27.Government have been blocking that. But in the broader picture, steel is
:10:28. > :10:30.a cyclical industry. If you look at the weakness of the pound, that's
:10:31. > :10:35.already helping the numbers to go on the right direction for the British
:10:36. > :10:39.Steel industry. The energy intensive industries compensation package is
:10:40. > :10:42.also helping. So this ?1 million a day figure that gets bandied around
:10:43. > :10:46.is no longer the case. We're moving in the right direction. We've got a
:10:47. > :10:50.fantastic workforce, making the best steel that money can buy. We've just
:10:51. > :10:56.got to back the industry, give it a level playing field, a chance to
:10:57. > :10:58.compete, and it will. If you talk to customers like Jaguar Land Rover,
:10:59. > :11:00.Honda, Nissan, they are getting the best service and the best product
:11:01. > :11:04.money can buy but we need the Government to help in an -- step in
:11:05. > :11:08.and make that happen. Has the Government been asleep at the wheel?
:11:09. > :11:12.Did Sajid Javid not do enough, early enough, to stop this happening? From
:11:13. > :11:17.what I know about Sajid Javid, he's a very shrewd operator and if he
:11:18. > :11:21.says that it was a surprise what was announced in Mumbai... Cos, yes, he
:11:22. > :11:25.had been dealing... Should he have been there? That's for him to
:11:26. > :11:27.decide. I don't know what he was doing in Australia that could have
:11:28. > :11:33.been bringing in work to the country. But I think it's important
:11:34. > :11:36.that those words are vague to a degree, and I'll tell you why. He's
:11:37. > :11:41.got to be very careful that Europe doesn't intervene, say this is state
:11:42. > :11:45.aid and then rule out a deal, so the fact that he's said co-ownership on
:11:46. > :11:49.a commercial basis... He has got to say those things. The fact that he
:11:50. > :11:53.will be on the phone constantly, saying who is interest rate? What
:11:54. > :11:57.can we do? And keeping those words vague to attract as many people as
:11:58. > :12:02.possible. Should this steelworks be saved, what may, because it's such
:12:03. > :12:06.an important part of our manufacturing? What you do whenever
:12:07. > :12:10.you go into any deal is say, how do we make it work? What are the things
:12:11. > :12:13.we need? We need something for the local community, something for the
:12:14. > :12:18.industry, we need to make sure it is workable, and how do we get the best
:12:19. > :12:22.deal for everyone? That is the Government, taxpayers, all of the
:12:23. > :12:31.supply chain, whether it's the car industry, British Aerospace, but
:12:32. > :12:34.first and foremost you think, what do we do to stabilise the situation?
:12:35. > :12:37.What do we do to attract as many people as possible to want to buy
:12:38. > :12:39.this and go forward? Should they do something about pension liability?
:12:40. > :12:41.Should they be doing more, the Government, to bring down energy
:12:42. > :12:45.costs, which is what labour and the industry have been calling for?
:12:46. > :12:49.There are many layers to that. The 2008 climate change but was brought
:12:50. > :12:54.in, which is now making these energy bills so onerous, that Labour
:12:55. > :12:59.brought in, because was looking at climate change. You have to look at
:13:00. > :13:03.flexible to. You have to look at tariffs. We can't have Chinese
:13:04. > :13:06.dumping cheap steel in the UK. Should there be tariffs put on
:13:07. > :13:09.Chinese imports? I think that's something we have to look at, as we
:13:10. > :13:13.look at the flexibility for everything. Stephen Cain, Labour has
:13:14. > :13:18.called for this debate. What more are you hoping to achieve? --
:13:19. > :13:21.Stephen Kinnock. We are looking for clarity on what co-investment means.
:13:22. > :13:25.We are looking for a proper U-turn on this position on anti-dumping is
:13:26. > :13:30.the Government simply hasn't done enough on that, and we're looking
:13:31. > :13:34.for a real extension of support to Tata steel to get them beyond this
:13:35. > :13:38.16 week period, because I don't think that it's long enough. What we
:13:39. > :13:41.need really, overall, is a sense that the Government is actually
:13:42. > :13:43.stepping up to the plate and standing up for British Steel,
:13:44. > :13:45.rather than rolling out the red carpet for Beijing. Stephen Kinnock,
:13:46. > :13:48.thank you. Now, Work and Pensions
:13:49. > :13:49.Secretary Stephen Crabb will give his first major speech
:13:50. > :13:52.in the job this afternoon. He took over from Iain Duncan Smith,
:13:53. > :13:55.who resigned over proposals in the Budget to cut the personal
:13:56. > :14:04.independence payment What are the main issue Stephen
:14:05. > :14:07.Crabb has to deal within his new role?
:14:08. > :14:09.The new Work and Pensions Secretary has already
:14:10. > :14:11.dealt with one major issue at the top of his in-tray.
:14:12. > :14:13.Last month he confirmed that controversial disability cuts
:14:14. > :14:15.to personal independence payments would be scrapped.
:14:16. > :14:17.That leaves a ?4.4 billion hole in the budget -
:14:18. > :14:21.but will he resist more cuts to welfare?
:14:22. > :14:24.Then there's Universal Credit - his predeccessor Iain Duncan Smith's
:14:25. > :14:29.The project aims to streamline existing working-age benefits
:14:30. > :14:34.into a single monthly payment - but it is six years behind schedule.
:14:35. > :14:38.And critics say "salami slicing" of the project leaves it at risk
:14:39. > :14:44.of failing to achieve its key aim of incentivising people into work.
:14:45. > :14:48.Crabb is expected to use his first speech today to outline
:14:49. > :14:52.plans to tackle "the root causes of poverty".
:14:53. > :14:56.But does this mean further changes to the welfare system?
:14:57. > :15:04.I'm joined by Owen Smith, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary.
:15:05. > :15:14.Before I come to you, Esther, do you share the concerns of Iain Duncan
:15:15. > :15:18.Smith around salami slicing? Has it been cut too much? What we are
:15:19. > :15:23.looking at is the juxtaposition between what all the changes are. I
:15:24. > :15:28.think that is the right position. How can you have extra taxes for
:15:29. > :15:33.some people and benefit cuts for others. What is affordable for the
:15:34. > :15:38.whole country? Other departments are looking for money. Whether it was
:15:39. > :15:42.the Department of Health wanting more money, transport, the arts, you
:15:43. > :15:49.have got to say how do we get the best deal for those people looking
:15:50. > :15:57.at the budget? In the context of the budget, George Osborne was wrong for
:15:58. > :16:02.more money to be taken from the welfare budget when tax breaks were
:16:03. > :16:06.given to better off people, do you think? He stated clearly in the
:16:07. > :16:09.manifesto going into the election which people voted on and delivered
:16:10. > :16:15.a Conservative government on, they knew there were going to be these
:16:16. > :16:19.changes to the benefit system. Actually, the government and the
:16:20. > :16:23.country voted on that and elected a Conservative government on the back
:16:24. > :16:28.of that. You said you didn't think it was fair in that overall
:16:29. > :16:33.envelope, the juxtaposition, was the word you used, making more cuts to
:16:34. > :16:38.some disabled payments when as you said in the manifesto it said there
:16:39. > :16:43.were going to be tax breaks. Was Iain Duncan Smith right? Then the
:16:44. > :16:47.government came back and said, actually, hence you had George
:16:48. > :16:52.Osborne and Stephen Crabb coming to the house and saying we are going to
:16:53. > :16:59.relook at this. We have changed our mind. That is how democracy works,
:17:00. > :17:02.how grown-ups were, they had the strength of character to come
:17:03. > :17:07.forward and say we are going to change those things but be mindful
:17:08. > :17:10.of the fact that country had only just voted in a government on those
:17:11. > :17:15.pledges that they had put forward merely months before. Grown-up
:17:16. > :17:21.politics by the government? They made a mistake, they said, and they
:17:22. > :17:25.changed it. They changed it in respect of the PIP cuts, and that is
:17:26. > :17:33.very welcome and that is largely because of the fast we made of it.
:17:34. > :17:38.And Iain Duncan Smith's resignation? If he had really been concerned
:17:39. > :17:42.about the plight of disabled people, he could have resigned on many
:17:43. > :17:46.different occasions. He put through millions of pounds of cuts for
:17:47. > :17:54.disabled people. Esther is right that the Tory party said they were
:17:55. > :17:57.going to cut ?12 billion for disabled people, they didn't say
:17:58. > :18:02.they were going to cut universal credit for people out of work, 10
:18:03. > :18:06.billion coming from them, the other big losers have been the disabled
:18:07. > :18:10.and I don't think that was clear to the country. Nor have they succeeded
:18:11. > :18:17.in getting down welfare spending, it has gone up under the Tories. Did
:18:18. > :18:21.you know where those cuts were going to be? We couldn't get any minister
:18:22. > :18:27.to say where the axe would fall. Did you know? You wouldn't know. That is
:18:28. > :18:32.when you come forward with all of the plans. I wouldn't and I didn't
:18:33. > :18:38.know the specifics on that. Did you ever feel under pressure? Iain
:18:39. > :18:44.Duncan Smith said, too often my team have been pressured to make cuts.
:18:45. > :18:49.What you do at a time when there are more outgoings than there is money
:18:50. > :18:55.coming into the country, like in any business, household, government, you
:18:56. > :19:01.say, how can we make our budget work? Every department, including
:19:02. > :19:04.DWP, would have been asked what the options were to get the spending
:19:05. > :19:10.down. You would have looked at where the money was needed into the
:19:11. > :19:13.support. We got 2 million people extra people into work when I was
:19:14. > :19:20.working there. Where you ever pressured as part of that team to
:19:21. > :19:24.make cuts to working age benefits? Pressured? You say, what are the
:19:25. > :19:28.options and the whole team sets about giving a whole array of
:19:29. > :19:33.options. Some of these you would say, these make the numbers work but
:19:34. > :19:38.we don't want to do these. Right the way across to what you can do. Every
:19:39. > :19:42.department would have done that and every department would be
:19:43. > :19:47.challenging for more money. Health, transport, education, you have to
:19:48. > :19:51.sit in there and justify your stance. Iain Duncan Smith did
:19:52. > :20:01.incredibly well for the duration you was there, fighting on behalf of
:20:02. > :20:04.disabled and unemployed people to get the best deal. Remember, we were
:20:05. > :20:07.left as a government without any money, as we so well know. Do you
:20:08. > :20:12.think people would trust a Labour government under Jeremy Corbyn to
:20:13. > :20:17.tackle the welfare budget? Yes because we would tackle the
:20:18. > :20:26.underlying problems. Low wages, high rents, inability to get into decent
:20:27. > :20:36.jobs. The living wages coming in. But it will not offset the cuts for
:20:37. > :20:43.low paid people brought by cuts in tax universal credit. It is going to
:20:44. > :20:51.offset by five times any uplift for a full-time worker on the new
:20:52. > :20:54.national living wage. So you wouldn't support any cuts? You would
:20:55. > :20:59.look at the underlying causes of poverty. I certainly wouldn't be
:21:00. > :21:06.cutting the budget for disabled people. I would be reversing the
:21:07. > :21:09.bedroom tax. That has been a pernicious and discriminatory policy
:21:10. > :21:13.and I would be looking to make work pay in this country and get back to
:21:14. > :21:18.the fundamentals that universal credit was meant to address and has
:21:19. > :21:23.been undermined by the cuts. It is revealing that Esther, a minister in
:21:24. > :21:28.the DWP, didn't know that ?12 million of cuts were going to fall
:21:29. > :21:35.on working people and the disabled. I am incredulous that she didn't
:21:36. > :21:41.know that. What do you say to that? You know how budgets are done and
:21:42. > :21:46.you go forward with a whole array... You go forward with a whole array of
:21:47. > :21:49.ways which you are going to do that. Obviously, that was in the budget
:21:50. > :21:58.the year later, what was going to happen. Can I just say that what we
:21:59. > :22:04.did the entire time was balance up the support that went people to get
:22:05. > :22:08.into a job. You said it was a mistake to make the cuts that were
:22:09. > :22:15.proposed by George Osborne into disability benefit. The budget was
:22:16. > :22:23.always going up, the only difference was in the rate. It was just not
:22:24. > :22:26.increasing at the rate it was. I listen to the words that are bandied
:22:27. > :22:33.about carelessly, that wasn't what happened. Looking at universal
:22:34. > :22:38.credit, can still work? What they are setting out, what they are
:22:39. > :22:44.intending to do, yes. This will be Stephen Crabb's position to go
:22:45. > :22:53.forward and make sure it works. The whole narrative and motivation to
:22:54. > :22:59.get people back in work. It is six years behind schedule and it no
:23:00. > :23:02.longer incentivise is people to find work. The Office for Budget
:23:03. > :23:06.Responsibility has significant concerns about the scheme. It feels
:23:07. > :23:12.like a fell project before it has got underway. It was always a very
:23:13. > :23:17.slow roll-out and started at the end of the last parliament. It is not
:23:18. > :23:21.six years behind. The premise of what it is about, how it is going to
:23:22. > :23:26.be rolled out, obviously, the combinations of different people's
:23:27. > :23:31.lies, has to be worked through. You are confident it is going to be
:23:32. > :23:44.rolled out in the way you envisaged under Stephen Crabb? I am not there
:23:45. > :23:49.now, ... You have an expertise. You would need the people involved to
:23:50. > :23:55.explain where it is going. Do you think it will happen? I hope that it
:23:56. > :24:02.does and I will be cheering on Stephen Crabb all the way. You have
:24:03. > :24:10.root and branch review of universal credit. What does that mean? I went
:24:11. > :24:14.to old, at the heart of the biggest experiment, 30,000 people have been
:24:15. > :24:21.an universal credit for a while. It is clear that, talking to people on
:24:22. > :24:27.it, it is not working. The system is not perfect by any means. But it is
:24:28. > :24:31.a good idea. I fundamentally support the notion that you simplify and get
:24:32. > :24:36.rid of disincentives. The problem is, it was meant to be a better
:24:37. > :24:41.resourced system than the current one. It was meant to be ?2 billion
:24:42. > :24:49.more generous than what we had. It is now ?5 billion less generous.
:24:50. > :24:55.They got rid of some of the cliff edges, at 16 weeks for example, but
:24:56. > :25:03.anybody... 16 hours, rather than weeks. There is always going to be
:25:04. > :25:08.imperfections. They have got rid of some minor problems around 16 hours
:25:09. > :25:12.but everybody is going to be worse off, on average, ?1500 per year
:25:13. > :25:27.worse. Single mothers in particular are going to be even bigger, 2.5
:25:28. > :25:32.?3000 worse off per year. Iain Duncan Smith said some cuts would
:25:33. > :25:38.the justified if they could protect some pension benefits? He is wrong
:25:39. > :25:45.to say that the Labour government didn't do even more than they
:25:46. > :25:51.proposed. It is a false choice. There are other ways we can improve
:25:52. > :25:56.the system. They didn't have to take the decision to cut corporation tax,
:25:57. > :26:00.cut capital gains tax, those things cost billions of pounds and they
:26:01. > :26:04.could make different decisions. Instead, they can't yet say, PIP and
:26:05. > :26:12.it tells you everything you need to know about their priorities. Stay
:26:13. > :26:16.with us. The tax returns of our leaders have been put under the
:26:17. > :26:20.microscope. The Chancellor and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn released
:26:21. > :26:28.their tax returns yesterday just as Jeremy Cameron -- just as David
:26:29. > :26:29.Cameron faced Parliament for the first time since the Panama papers
:26:30. > :26:32.were published. Mr Speaker, I accept
:26:33. > :26:34.all of the criticisms for not responding more quickly to these
:26:35. > :26:36.issues last week. But as I said, I was angry about
:26:37. > :26:40.the way my father's memory was being We should think carefully before
:26:41. > :26:43.abandoning completely all taxpayer confidentiality in this
:26:44. > :26:45.House, as some have suggested. If this were to come
:26:46. > :26:47.in for MPs, people would also ask for a similar
:26:48. > :26:50.approach for those who ask us questions, those who run large
:26:51. > :26:53.public services or lead local government or, indeed, those
:26:54. > :26:55.who edit the news programmes or The Prime Minister has attacked tax
:26:56. > :27:00.dodging as immoral but he clearly failed to
:27:01. > :27:03.give a full account of his own involvement
:27:04. > :27:06.in offshore tax havens until this week,
:27:07. > :27:11.or to take essential action... Or to take essential action to clean
:27:12. > :27:21.up the system, whilst at the same time blocking
:27:22. > :27:26.wider efforts to do so. We risk seeing a House of Commons
:27:27. > :27:28.which is stuffed full of low achievers,
:27:29. > :27:32.who hate enterprise, hate people who look
:27:33. > :27:35.after their own family and who know absolutely
:27:36. > :27:38.nothing about the outside world. The biggest multinational
:27:39. > :27:41.company earns more income in a single week
:27:42. > :27:44.than the combined incomes Now, the Prime Minister has spoken
:27:45. > :27:49.about transparency before and today and that is why many of us
:27:50. > :27:52.across this House, from all parties, want to make sure that the country
:27:53. > :27:55.by country information that multinationals will be obliged
:27:56. > :28:10.to provide to HMRC should be put Has David Cameron succeeded in
:28:11. > :28:15.putting this issue to bed? I don't think it will be put to bed for a
:28:16. > :28:21.long time because people do want to know that your thoughts, words and
:28:22. > :28:25.deeds all aligned. Talking about trust and integrity and
:28:26. > :28:27.authenticity. What we have got here now through technology is the
:28:28. > :28:35.ability to find out some of these things. Therefore, transparency and
:28:36. > :28:39.being able to justify what you are doing and saying will be at the four
:28:40. > :28:44.and I don't see that going for some time yet. It is a national motion to
:28:45. > :28:49.want to know what you're saying is really what you are doing.
:28:50. > :28:54.Transparency will be the most important thing for a little while,
:28:55. > :28:57.I think, going forward. Do you think it is right for anybody who wants to
:28:58. > :29:03.be prime ministers Chancellor to publish their tax returns? I think
:29:04. > :29:07.it is probably the way of the world going forward. We won't be like King
:29:08. > :29:14.Canute on the shore saying, hold that back. I am a conservative if
:29:15. > :29:19.you look at market forces, it is probably the next market force
:29:20. > :29:24.coming forward is transparency. You can't run, you can't hide, this will
:29:25. > :29:29.be the shape of things to come. Did they miss handle it with the drip,
:29:30. > :29:33.drip effect of number ten giving one statement that David Cameron had to
:29:34. > :29:37.clarify and expand. Was it a mistake?
:29:38. > :29:43.He said that himself. He said wasn't his finest hour. He's done
:29:44. > :29:47.everything right. Is done every been legal. But equally, it was a big
:29:48. > :29:51.shift that he was introducing in a relatively short base of time, that
:29:52. > :29:55.no Prime Minister before him has had to do. He changed that. I can see
:29:56. > :29:59.the reticence and he said he was defending his father but, as he
:30:00. > :30:03.says, it wasn't his finest hour and he should have been quicker doing
:30:04. > :30:07.what he did. What does it say about politicians' ability to govern by
:30:08. > :30:12.publishing their tax return? Not a lot, I think, is the truth. I've
:30:13. > :30:16.heard lots of suggestions that Churchill's tax returns and affairs
:30:17. > :30:19.were pretty murky. I'm sure many readers through the ages have not
:30:20. > :30:23.been great at managing their personal finances and yet managed to
:30:24. > :30:28.have a public role that stands up to scrutiny. I think it's a
:30:29. > :30:33.destruction, to be honest. I'm happy to publish mine if I need to but I
:30:34. > :30:38.think it is truly a destruction from the wider issues that this affair
:30:39. > :30:42.has exposed about the way in which our tax system internationally has
:30:43. > :30:46.become divorced from nation states. Taxes are there in order to be able
:30:47. > :30:51.to allow us, as politicians, to gather in the money to run essential
:30:52. > :30:55.public services, and if we've got a supranational set of tax rules and
:30:56. > :30:59.tax dodgers and tax avoidance, tax havens at the heart of these, and
:31:00. > :31:03.Britain at the heart of organising that, we are undermining our ability
:31:04. > :31:08.to the services that people in the or Pontypridd need or want. So I
:31:09. > :31:17.think there is a massive cultural issue at the heart of this. But the
:31:18. > :31:20.genie is out of the bottle. Do you think Labour should really be
:31:21. > :31:24.pressing this further, so that we do, and have seen now, the
:31:25. > :31:28.Chancellor's tax return, Jeremy Corbyn's found and published his.
:31:29. > :31:32.Should we be seeing every senior politician? Calls by the SNP for the
:31:33. > :31:36.Cabinet to publish theirs. Do you want to see that? I don't think that
:31:37. > :31:40.would add a huge amount. The newspapers would love it and there
:31:41. > :31:46.would easily be public interest in it. Would you constituents like it?
:31:47. > :31:50.My only income is my Parliamentary salary so if I publish mine, it
:31:51. > :31:54.would be extremely tedious for everyone. You could work it out
:31:55. > :31:58.right now. I've got no problems with doing it. But I think that is a
:31:59. > :32:01.destruction and some in the Conservative Party might like it to
:32:02. > :32:04.be a distraction from the bigger question we're trying to address.
:32:05. > :32:08.The newspapers might like it to be a bigger destruction. Let's get down
:32:09. > :32:11.into the weeds about to file their returns on time or who earned a
:32:12. > :32:17.little bit extra. But, actually, that is distracting from the much
:32:18. > :32:20.bigger question about how we reform internationally our tax system, such
:32:21. > :32:25.that countries can run properly and governments can govern properly. Is
:32:26. > :32:29.it a problem if you have a government that is imposing
:32:30. > :32:33.austerity, which you are busy supported as part of that
:32:34. > :32:38.government, and then revealed in their tax returns that maybe they
:32:39. > :32:42.are benefiting from tax planning or minimising their taxes? Is there a
:32:43. > :32:45.contradiction at the heart of that? First of all, what I was about and
:32:46. > :32:49.what the Conservative Party was about is living within your means,
:32:50. > :32:52.so it's not all stared at it. It's if you can't afford that, how way
:32:53. > :32:56.you going to bring more money into the country to be able to afford it,
:32:57. > :33:00.or how you going to do without it? Service austerity, it wasn't that.
:33:01. > :33:05.It was, how do you live within your means? This government has taken 4
:33:06. > :33:09.million people out of paying tax, those low earners. That's right. At
:33:10. > :33:13.the same time, they have brought in more money from people and companies
:33:14. > :33:22.paying into the tax system and that's right. The top 10% now are
:33:23. > :33:28.paying more than they've ever played. They are now paying 50% into
:33:29. > :33:32.the system. It might not be going as quick as people might like and there
:33:33. > :33:35.might still be more money that could be brought in but it is a process
:33:36. > :33:39.from start to finish and this government has done a lot in getting
:33:40. > :33:43.more taxing from those people who can afford it and those who can't
:33:44. > :33:48.not having to pay tax. I think S2 is doing a good job of trying to defend
:33:49. > :33:51.the indefensible. The two big issues are this cultural problem of tax
:33:52. > :33:55.avoidance and crucially, the other thing... What is the difference
:33:56. > :33:59.between tax avoidance and tax planning, as somebody said
:34:00. > :34:04.yesterday? ISA our tax planning, rather than tax avoidance. Where do
:34:05. > :34:07.you draw the line? You have to understand that there have to be not
:34:08. > :34:11.what we've got right now, which is one rule for people who may be put a
:34:12. > :34:14.few quid into an ice or into their pension, and one rule for the
:34:15. > :34:18.super-rich, like the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
:34:19. > :34:21.These are the very people who benefit from having the wherewithal
:34:22. > :34:24.and the skills on the money to take advantage of this nexus of tax
:34:25. > :34:30.havens across the world and we've got to address that. Which is legal.
:34:31. > :34:35.Perhaps that's the problem. That we have allowed to grow up like Topsy
:34:36. > :34:40.this combo gated web of tax avoidance and people like the Prime
:34:41. > :34:42.Minister, the super wealthy, can take advantage of it and ordinary
:34:43. > :34:49.people in my constituency could never dream of it. Just one thing.
:34:50. > :34:53.What he did was correct and he paid his tax on what was a unit trust
:34:54. > :34:58.and, actually, unit trusts are not only used by the trade unions but
:34:59. > :35:05.also by the guardian, pension funds, so careless words... I'm not care
:35:06. > :35:09.less, I'm careful. You weren't because this was about saving money
:35:10. > :35:13.and he's paid all his tax. Should the system need to change? Yes,
:35:14. > :35:16.that's what we are doing. He is trying to make sure there is greater
:35:17. > :35:19.transparency, that people with beneficial owners are now being
:35:20. > :35:23.exposed but this is something that will take time and I agree with you
:35:24. > :35:27.- people who can afford to pave more money into the tax system to support
:35:28. > :35:29.people who can't is the right way to go and that's what Conservatives
:35:30. > :35:32.believe in as well as the Labour Party. Thank you.
:35:33. > :35:34.Conservative backbenchers have called it an "insult" to voters,
:35:35. > :35:35.and an action worthy of Robert Mugabe.
:35:36. > :35:39.The decision by David Cameron to authorise a Government leaflet
:35:40. > :35:42.to be sent to everyone in the country, setting out why
:35:43. > :35:44.the Government backs Britain remaining in the EU.
:35:45. > :35:46.We'll discuss the ?9 million leaflet in just a moment.
:35:47. > :35:49.First, though, here's a flavour of the debate in the House
:35:50. > :35:59.Whether the United Kingdom should remain in or leave
:36:00. > :36:01.the European Union is a huge decision for this country.
:36:02. > :36:04.It is right that this should be a decision for the British
:36:05. > :36:09.people as a whole and, equally, it is right that people
:36:10. > :36:12.have the facts in front of them and understand the reasons
:36:13. > :36:17.for the Government's recommendations before they go to the poll.
:36:18. > :36:20.Does the Minister agree with me that some of the reaction to this
:36:21. > :36:23.publication has been more about trying to silence
:36:24. > :36:27.the arguments for remaining than trying to counter them?
:36:28. > :36:32.Does my right honourable friend agree that it is an absurd
:36:33. > :36:36.proposition that the government of the day is not entitled to form
:36:37. > :36:40.an opinion or policy on the role of the government
:36:41. > :36:45.in the modern world, or is not allowed to communicate
:36:46. > :36:49.the reasons for having that policy to the electorate?
:36:50. > :36:53.Does the Minister accept that this is not so much Project Fear
:36:54. > :36:56.as Project Slightly Worrying, because it's been dumbed down?
:36:57. > :37:02.But isn't it an abuse of public money, an insult to the electors,
:37:03. > :37:05.and does he realise it's going to drive many more
:37:06. > :37:11.The Minister will try as hard as he can to bluster this
:37:12. > :37:14.but the reality is that the public will see through it
:37:15. > :37:19.and they will realise that this is deeply, deeply unfair.
:37:20. > :37:23.Furthermore, I was very fortunate enough to get my copy of the leaflet
:37:24. > :37:27.this morning and I was slightly disappointed that it was printed
:37:28. > :37:33.Had it been printed on something a bit more absorbent,
:37:34. > :37:35.then at least my constituents would have been able to put it
:37:36. > :37:41.As a member of the Council of Europe, part of my responsibility
:37:42. > :37:44.is election observing and I go round and I have a look
:37:45. > :37:48.at the conduct of the campaign prior to polling day,
:37:49. > :37:51.and if I witnessed in any of the countries that I go
:37:52. > :37:55.to the sort of spiv Robert Mugabe antics that I've seen by this
:37:56. > :38:00.government, then I would condemn the conduct of that election
:38:01. > :38:11.We've been joined now by the Conservative MP Nigel Evans,
:38:12. > :38:14.who you saw there at the end of those clips, and by James
:38:15. > :38:18.McGrory, chief campaign spokesman for Britain Stronger in Europe.
:38:19. > :38:27.Welcome to both of you. So there is the leaflet. Not really for
:38:28. > :38:30.absorbent purposes. But why shouldn't the Government explain
:38:31. > :38:34.their official position? Well, we hear that David Livingstone is
:38:35. > :38:37.saying 85 is under the public want more information for stock they want
:38:38. > :38:43.more information from both sides, not just one of the sites. When he
:38:44. > :38:47.says the Government is giving its view, part of the government is in
:38:48. > :38:50.favour and part of the government actually wants to leave. There are
:38:51. > :38:54.six Cabinet ministers campaigning to leave the EU. There are a lot of
:38:55. > :38:59.ministers and half the Parliamentary backbenchers want to leave the EU.
:39:00. > :39:01.But those Cabinet ministers that you mentioned are voting against the
:39:02. > :39:06.Government's position and that's the official position, isn't it? As I
:39:07. > :39:10.mentioned in that piece right at the end, and I toned it down, as you may
:39:11. > :39:15.have seen. I was very, very calm. Calmer now. I'm a member of the
:39:16. > :39:18.council of Europe. I will be very shortly going to Serbia to observe
:39:19. > :39:23.their Parliamentary elections and I'll be looking at the run-up to the
:39:24. > :39:26.election, as well as how the conduct of the poll takes place on the
:39:27. > :39:31.Sunday. And if things come to my attention whereby the Government is
:39:32. > :39:34.promoting itself, spending money on pushing itself, as opposed to the
:39:35. > :39:37.other side, then I'm not going to say it's fair. And that's what it
:39:38. > :39:42.all comes down to. People want more information but they wanted from all
:39:43. > :39:45.sides so why didn't the Government just allow both sides to have more
:39:46. > :39:49.money to spend instead of, I've got to say, spending ?9 million of
:39:50. > :39:52.taxpayers' money, when I've got potholes into the row. That's where
:39:53. > :39:57.the money should be going, not on this. ?9 million is an awful lot of
:39:58. > :40:01.money and there will be an awful lot of taxpayers who will say, I didn't
:40:02. > :40:05.want it spent on that. It works out at about 30p per household. Believe
:40:06. > :40:12.campaigns will get money to spend on their own leaflets. -- the Leave
:40:13. > :40:15.campaigns. The Government has a right to articulated position. The
:40:16. > :40:20.Government is firmly on the side of remaining in the EU. But did they
:40:21. > :40:26.have to do it in this leaflet here, which is a fairly weighty, you might
:40:27. > :40:29.call it, in terms of leaflets, anyway, spelling out that the
:40:30. > :40:33.government believes are voting to remain in the EU is the best
:40:34. > :40:36.decision for the UK. It's a fairly weighty issue. At an important
:40:37. > :40:40.issue. There's a lot to the issue. Jobs, the economy, our place in the
:40:41. > :40:43.world, security. There's a lot to get through and it's a relatively
:40:44. > :40:46.small leaflet when you think of the big debate we're having in this
:40:47. > :40:49.country. People want to hear from their government on a range of
:40:50. > :40:52.things. The Government spends millions of pounds communicating
:40:53. > :40:56.with the public, whether it's on welfare, health, Home Office
:40:57. > :41:00.policies. They're doing it on what I would argue is the biggest issue
:41:01. > :41:06.facing the country today. It's not worthy of Robert Mugabe, though, is
:41:07. > :41:10.it. Was that not an overreaction? Absolutely, but it was emphasis to
:41:11. > :41:13.make a point, which is that it is loading the dice, and part of the
:41:14. > :41:17.problem is that if it is a tight result in favour to remain, a lot of
:41:18. > :41:21.people are going to say, "Hold on, this was an unfair election and the
:41:22. > :41:25.dice was loaded in favour of the Government". They are tried to make
:41:26. > :41:28.out that these are all facts. They're not. They are opinions.
:41:29. > :41:31.There is no mention in this document that we've got a ?60 billion deficit
:41:32. > :41:35.with the rest of the EU and that's one of the reasons they will want to
:41:36. > :41:39.carry on trading with us. There is not a hope in hell that Angela
:41:40. > :41:42.Merkel is going to say, we don't want to sell Britain BMWs and
:41:43. > :41:46.Mercedes. Did you complain about it when they did it in the Scottish
:41:47. > :41:49.referendum. I didn't realise they were doing it for the Scottish
:41:50. > :41:53.referendum but I understand why the Scots felt so angry about it. They
:41:54. > :41:55.did it twice and I didn't see any Conservative MPs complaining them
:41:56. > :41:58.because you were on the same side of the argument. You don't like the
:41:59. > :42:02.fact that your Conservative government has taken a different
:42:03. > :42:05.position from yourself. They should be allowed to to give it that the
:42:06. > :42:09.people. Why not give ?9 million to the other side to do the same?
:42:10. > :42:13.Because the Government is a neutral. The Government has a clear position.
:42:14. > :42:17.Nigel doesn't like it. What about the issue of fairness? In the
:42:18. > :42:20.campaign, both sides get an equal amount of taxpayers' money to spend.
:42:21. > :42:29.But you've got an extra 16 page leaflet. Because the government
:42:30. > :42:33.isn't a neutral actor. The Bank of England... I don't spend ?9 million
:42:34. > :42:37.in doing so. I don't mind Cameron come the dispatch box and saying, "I
:42:38. > :42:40.want to stay in," but what I do resent is the dispatch box and
:42:41. > :42:43.saying, "I want to stay in," but what I do resent is the spending of
:42:44. > :42:45.?9 million. If you weren't making outrageous claims about your own
:42:46. > :42:50.government, comparing them to Robert Mugabe, when they did it in
:42:51. > :42:54.Scotland... You say that this looks as if they're giving facts and you
:42:55. > :42:58.disagree with some of the facts, but this has also been put through
:42:59. > :43:03.people's letterboxes, UK and the European Union - the facts. And,
:43:04. > :43:06.actually, when you read it, in very small print, which I could hardly
:43:07. > :43:11.read, it's been sent by vote leave. This also gives the impression that
:43:12. > :43:14.that that is a factual document was top they should have made it clearer
:43:15. > :43:21.that it was from Vote Leave. I haven't read that. You can have that
:43:22. > :43:27.copy as a gift from me. You are still doing the same thing as you
:43:28. > :43:30.complain about on the other side. Vote Leave paid for this, taxpayers
:43:31. > :43:35.paid for that. But is the crucial difference. If you feel so strongly
:43:36. > :43:41.about taxpayers' money being used, would you say that the Leave side
:43:42. > :43:47.shouldn't take a grant for their own leaflets? It's not ?9 million. If
:43:48. > :43:54.it's being delivered to every person... How can it be cheaper? Why
:43:55. > :43:58.don't you allow the Leave campaign to raise a further 9.3 million from
:43:59. > :44:03.subscribers and then they'd be able to use that to get the message out?
:44:04. > :44:10.It's not really in my gift. Would you do it? Of course not because he
:44:11. > :44:14.wants it loaded for the Remain side. Is this about the process all the
:44:15. > :44:17.arguments? It's about the process of getting the units across. People
:44:18. > :44:20.need the information. I agree with that. There are people sitting at
:44:21. > :44:23.home without the faintest idea whether we should be in or out. They
:44:24. > :44:28.probably feel a bit perplexed that a Prime Minister who, just a few weeks
:44:29. > :44:32.ago, said that if he didn't get a deal he would be believing the --
:44:33. > :44:36.leading the cannot relieve campaign, and now Armageddon if we leave. Does
:44:37. > :44:40.the Government have a right to be putting leaflets out like this? I
:44:41. > :44:44.was surprised that a couple of facts were left out, like the deficit with
:44:45. > :44:47.Europe, and also the cost of membership, so for something that
:44:48. > :44:50.was meant to be a fact sheet, I would've thought those two key
:44:51. > :44:53.points should have been there. They were omitted because they wouldn't
:44:54. > :44:56.have gone in the camera crew remain campaign's favour but I think
:44:57. > :45:01.individuals want a sense of fair play. If the polls are as tight as
:45:02. > :45:06.people say they are, 50% would have wanted some more information. When
:45:07. > :45:08.you were at the DWP, you didn't articulate the opposition's position
:45:09. > :45:14.in your press release. There wasn't a referendum. There was an
:45:15. > :45:19.opposition who was doing exactly the same and we had the exact same
:45:20. > :45:24.period of time. You pulled out. You've put out an extra leaflet.
:45:25. > :45:28.Comfortingly, we've got weeks and weeks of this to go. You can take
:45:29. > :45:30.that with you, Nigel. Thank you very much.
:45:31. > :45:32.Most new MPs in the 2015 intake have settled
:45:33. > :45:40.returned to parliament after taking time off to fight breast cancer,
:45:41. > :45:42.with which she was diagnosed shortly after her election
:45:43. > :45:48.The Labour MP over-turned a majority of 11,000 to win her Bristol West
:45:49. > :45:52.Here she is in action on the campaign trail.
:45:53. > :46:07.If you didn't know, my name is Thangam Debbonaire
:46:08. > :46:09.and I'm the Labour candidate to be the member
:46:10. > :46:16.I've got to say, this is one of the most exciting cities to live
:46:17. > :46:20.Any newcomers in the audience today, that's you guys at the back,
:46:21. > :46:23.I can really recommend this fantastic city.
:46:24. > :46:32.Now, she is here with us. You've been back a couple of weeks. How
:46:33. > :46:37.have you been settling in? My hair doesn't look like that any more! I
:46:38. > :46:41.wouldn't say it has been painless because I am still suffering
:46:42. > :46:46.post-operative pain but I have had a warm welcome from colleagues and
:46:47. > :46:49.members of staff across the house. It is a little difficult because I
:46:50. > :46:56.don't know the entrances and exits but I am getting there. How
:46:57. > :47:00.different is the atmosphere from June last year? I was caught up in a
:47:01. > :47:06.very strange environment having won a seat with a reasonable majority
:47:07. > :47:11.but discovering we weren't the party of majority in parliament. That was
:47:12. > :47:16.just as I discovered I had breast cancer. I carried on working as I
:47:17. > :47:21.was being treated but all in the constituency. How supportive have
:47:22. > :47:28.your constituency and Parliamentary colleagues been? Brilliant. I think
:47:29. > :47:33.I've had the time to read all the briefings about all the debates.
:47:34. > :47:37.There were times watching debates I thought I was the only person who
:47:38. > :47:46.had watched all the debates and read all the briefings and the Daily
:47:47. > :47:53.Politics every day. Who was the most helpful? I had help from all across
:47:54. > :47:58.the house. I wouldn't want to pick one single person out. I really was
:47:59. > :48:03.quite overwhelmed about how good a place it was to working with a
:48:04. > :48:07.serious illness. Do you think remote working from Westminster can be
:48:08. > :48:11.done? I think it can be considered. I'm hoping that in the process of
:48:12. > :48:22.changing premises we consider things like voting and in second and -- and
:48:23. > :48:28.in certain circumstances I could have voted, having read everything
:48:29. > :48:31.about the issue and the only thing I couldn't do was to vote. It was
:48:32. > :48:39.frustrating that there was no mechanism. Having that degree of
:48:40. > :48:44.time to study all the topics as serious as they are, do not think it
:48:45. > :48:49.should be an option that if people are not able to come, they could do
:48:50. > :48:53.it remotely? The technology is there. You followed all the debates
:48:54. > :48:58.and had the information to hand, so I think it should be an option. I
:48:59. > :49:03.would also say in defence of doing it in person, when I was there, I
:49:04. > :49:09.asked why we were still doing it. It is your only time to see all of the
:49:10. > :49:15.secretaries of State, the Prime Minister, etc. But if you are happy
:49:16. > :49:22.to give that up because you want to do it because it is so important to
:49:23. > :49:26.be at home, then you can. It is the 21st century, we should find
:49:27. > :49:30.different ways to meet with our colleagues. I was able to pick up
:49:31. > :49:34.the phone and call and e-mail colleagues. I do believe in debate
:49:35. > :49:37.in the house but I think it is an issue and I would like it to be
:49:38. > :49:44.considered as part of parliamentary reform. Can I just say, what a huge
:49:45. > :49:50.inspiration, they you are, everybody welcome you back. Just as a woman
:49:51. > :49:55.coming back, living through that and being in parliament, all credit to
:49:56. > :50:05.you. And you were actually promoted to Shadow Minister for culture,
:50:06. > :50:10.media to, -- and sport. I am doing the art and culture bit because I am
:50:11. > :50:16.not familiar with sport! My constituency is a very arty area. I
:50:17. > :50:23.am a professional cellist. I come from a family of musicians. I am
:50:24. > :50:27.going to enjoy it. I think it was a good move to appoint someone to a
:50:28. > :50:32.brief lecture you know something about it. A revolutionary idea! It
:50:33. > :50:35.is great to have you back. Nice to meet you.
:50:36. > :50:39.It's Jeremy Corbyn as you've never seen him - an all singing,
:50:40. > :50:41.all dancing sensation on the London stage.
:50:42. > :50:47.We're not talking about the man himself - of course -
:50:48. > :50:51.but the actor who plays the lead role in Corbyn, the Musical,
:50:52. > :50:53.a new off-west end musical comedy about the Labour Leader's
:50:54. > :50:54.supposed motorbike holiday through East Germany
:50:55. > :50:59.Here's Giles with a sneak peak ahead of tonight's opening night.
:51:00. > :51:02.If I don't hear back, I'm going to go to the council
:51:03. > :51:04.and have the lleylandia ripped down and shoved right...
:51:05. > :51:12.# They said I couldn't do it, they said I couldn't win
:51:13. > :51:14.# There'd never be a PM called Jeremy Corbyn
:51:15. > :51:16.# Now I am in power, the clouds will disappear
:51:17. > :51:20.# The sun will shine upon us, hope will conquer fear...#
:51:21. > :51:23.A satire about Jeremy Corbyn, his fans should like this.
:51:24. > :51:27.# The world's in my hands, sleep safe at night
:51:28. > :51:30.# Now you're with the left, we're getting it right
:51:31. > :51:32.# I didn't sell out, I didn't give in
:51:33. > :51:37.# You needed a hero, you got Corbyn.#
:51:38. > :51:50.# Taking on big business, I'll supertax the banks
:51:51. > :51:53.# I've got rid of the bedroom tax and cancelled all the tanks
:51:54. > :51:56.# I don't live at Chequers, my palms are never greased
:51:57. > :51:58.# I've opened up the state rooms to migrants from the East.#
:51:59. > :52:01.Whilst Labour is the focus, no party or person escapes ridicule.
:52:02. > :52:03.# Women only carriages, a manifesto vow
:52:04. > :52:06.# All children have to learn about the works of Chairman Mao
:52:07. > :52:09.# My career was always stalling, now I am in the driving seat
:52:10. > :52:11.# Today the red flag's flying above ten Downing St.#
:52:12. > :52:15.It has Diane Abbott, President Putin, and Jeremy Corbyn
:52:16. > :52:18.portrayed and it always helps if you pick a lead actor who,
:52:19. > :52:27.# You needed a hero, you got Corbyn.#
:52:28. > :52:30.I don't really have such a big beard but I've got...
:52:31. > :52:40.I think I'm a little more handsome but, who knows?
:52:41. > :52:43.But here's the key, he's no fan of singing the praises of one
:52:44. > :52:46.side and bashing the hell out of the other.
:52:47. > :52:51.No one is safe, everyone is getting some stick from somewhere.
:52:52. > :52:55.Whether you're in power or you're not in power.
:52:56. > :52:58.I think the most important thing is that it will,
:52:59. > :53:06.But it's worth noting that some of the characters are, in real life,
:53:07. > :53:10.political characters, so how do you avoid caricature?
:53:11. > :53:15.I've studied a lot of how Diane speaks, her mannerisms,
:53:16. > :53:19.funnily enough, I think we share a few, so...
:53:20. > :53:23.Yeah, it's been a really interesting process trying to put
:53:24. > :53:29.And, on top of the music, there are the odd video inserts.
:53:30. > :53:42.Mr President, what does this have to do with, sexuality?
:53:43. > :53:45.Here's the bizarre thing, I'm not only covering it for
:53:46. > :53:47.the Daily Politics, somehow I'm in it.
:53:48. > :53:49.And if you're remotely interested in my fate,
:53:50. > :53:55.And we've been joined by the two writers behind this production -
:53:56. > :54:07.Why, Jeremy Corbyn the musical? I don't think there is anybody else in
:54:08. > :54:11.British politics who would justify it. The reaction was astonishing. We
:54:12. > :54:19.sold out all the tickets in record time. I think it may be because of
:54:20. > :54:24.the subject matter. What gave you the idea, making it a musical, as
:54:25. > :54:32.well? Very few politicians have such a colourful back story. Jeremy
:54:33. > :54:37.Corbyn travelled a lot, went abroad with Diane Abbott, allegedly, to
:54:38. > :54:42.East Germany. It is very interesting that the young Jeremy Corbyn
:54:43. > :54:49.probably found it a fitting place to be. How long did it take to write?
:54:50. > :54:53.About six months. The plot outline took about 20 minutes but then an
:54:54. > :54:59.awful lot of work after that. Putting the flesh on the bones.
:55:00. > :55:04.Exactly. It was really quite intense. We didn't realise quite how
:55:05. > :55:08.much work it would be. Here we are, the day we start this evening,
:55:09. > :55:12.opening night, we are running off to continue doing things
:55:13. > :55:16.behind-the-scenes. It is a huge amount of work. You have finished
:55:17. > :55:24.it? It is not like a Budget Statement? Yes, but there was time
:55:25. > :55:30.to put in a joke about Jeremy Corbyn finding his tax return. Are you
:55:31. > :55:37.going to see it? I think I will. It looks fantastic. Is it a comedy. A
:55:38. > :55:43.fun night, people will go. A few years ago, I went to see Tory Boys,
:55:44. > :55:49.by the National youth Theatre and that was a fantastically
:55:50. > :55:55.entertaining night. We have invited him. It pokes fun but it is not
:55:56. > :56:01.mean. He didn't even reply which wasn't very kind. He might once he
:56:02. > :56:08.has seen an interview. It could be lit a suicide for him to come so he
:56:09. > :56:15.could come in a couple of weeks. It is described as James Bond meets the
:56:16. > :56:28.Kama Sutra, why? We had to Celtic it's! There is a nuclear plotline
:56:29. > :56:31.and a bit of romance. -- sell tickets. We also invited Diane
:56:32. > :56:37.Abbott but she hasn't been in touch either. We would be delighted to
:56:38. > :56:40.send over tickets on a motorbike courier. Any chance of it being
:56:41. > :56:45.transferred to the West End? We would love it and this is our first
:56:46. > :56:51.play and we don't really know what we are doing. If you know how to do
:56:52. > :56:57.it, given as a call. You know who to write to. Giles had a cameo role.
:56:58. > :57:00.Was he right? I couldn't possibly say. He isn't here today, I think
:57:01. > :57:02.that says everything. There's just time before we go to
:57:03. > :57:05.find out the answer to our quiz. The question was -
:57:06. > :57:17.what happened next? He didn't write off the mortgage of
:57:18. > :57:20.the one the taxpayers were helping to pay for at Oxford.
:57:21. > :57:21.I didn't receive a proper answer then.
:57:22. > :57:39.Well, he wouldn't withdraw dodgy from dodgy David, so obviously John
:57:40. > :57:45.Burke, the Speaker of the house, it was in the first time he's been
:57:46. > :57:47.injected, so he left the chamber, not to be able to return for the
:57:48. > :57:48.rest of the day. I must ask the honourable gentleman
:57:49. > :57:51.to withdraw the word... Under the power given to me
:57:52. > :58:04.by standing order number 43, I order the honourable member
:58:05. > :58:09.to withdraw immediately from the House for the remainder
:58:10. > :58:24.of this day's sitting. Were you surprised? Were you
:58:25. > :58:31.surprised that he refused to retract it? No. He is one of the great
:58:32. > :58:35.characters of the house. He is formidable and he's not going to
:58:36. > :58:40.change. He's in his 80s and he's not going to change and doubt. That's
:58:41. > :58:44.what happened. If you say something that isn't acceptable behaviour in
:58:45. > :58:51.the house, then you will be sent off. Card. Off you go. He was never
:58:52. > :58:57.going to retract it. The speaker did seem to send him away with sadness
:58:58. > :59:00.rather than anger. He is always so thoughtful when you have to deliver
:59:01. > :59:01.something like that so precisely. Thank you