:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.As junior doctors prepare for an all-out strike this week,
:00:43. > :00:44.ministers accuse doctors' leaders of trying to bring
:00:45. > :00:51.The walk-out by junior doctors - planned for tomorrow and Wednesday -
:00:52. > :00:54.could also threaten patient safety, according to the Health Secretary.
:00:55. > :00:59.The British Medical Association says it will call off the strike
:01:00. > :01:05.if the Government reverses its position to impose the new contract.
:01:06. > :01:07.Theresa May admits that EU freedom of movement rules make it harder
:01:08. > :01:12.But the Home Secretary still thinks we should stay in
:01:13. > :01:21.So can we control our borders if we decide to stay?
:01:22. > :01:23.There's controversy surrounding the new president
:01:24. > :01:31.She insists she's not anti-Semitic, but some unions are threatening
:01:32. > :01:33.to break away following her election.
:01:34. > :01:39.Yes, what would Shakespeare have made of the EU debate?
:01:40. > :01:52.And with us for the whole of the programme today,
:01:53. > :01:56.two of Parliament's shyest and most unassuming members,
:01:57. > :01:58.Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi and Labour's Chris Bryant.
:01:59. > :02:12.Hail, well met. Are we going to do that throughout the programme?
:02:13. > :02:16.Verily! Oh, no! First today, leading figures
:02:17. > :02:18.in the campaign for Britain to leave the EU have moved to reclaim
:02:19. > :02:20.the initiative after It follows a high profile visit
:02:21. > :02:25.by Barack Obama in which the US president came out strongly
:02:26. > :02:27.in support of the campaign But this morning, one
:02:28. > :02:31.of Vote Leave's biggest hitters, the Justice Secretary Michael Gove,
:02:32. > :02:33.says Britain faces a migration "free for all" unless it breaks
:02:34. > :02:39.away from Brussels. The former Work and Pensions
:02:40. > :02:41.Secretary Iain Duncan If we remain, what are
:02:42. > :02:44.the risks of remaining? But the risks are of being
:02:45. > :02:49.in a continent in a trading arrangement and in a political
:02:50. > :02:56.union which is heading towards a kind of superstate with a collapsing
:02:57. > :03:00.currency and a chaos and crisis of migration, with people coming
:03:01. > :03:02.in and we don't know who they are the threats
:03:03. > :03:04.to terrorism and crime. The Home Secretary Theresa May has
:03:05. > :03:10.also been wading in to the debate. Yesterday she admitted that the EU's
:03:11. > :03:13.freedom of movement rules make it But this morning, in a speech
:03:14. > :03:25.in London, she outlined why She said the benefits of remaining
:03:26. > :03:28.were a price worth paying to stay in the EU.
:03:29. > :03:31.The question the country has to answer on the 23rd of June,
:03:32. > :03:33.whether to leave or remain, is about how we maximise Britain's
:03:34. > :03:35.security, prosperity and influence in the world,
:03:36. > :03:41.That is the control we have over our own affairs in future.
:03:42. > :03:45.And I use the word maximise advisedly, because no country
:03:46. > :03:48.or empire in world history has ever been totally sovereign, completely
:03:49. > :04:08.Theresa May. Chris Bryant, she did say that it might be a price worth
:04:09. > :04:11.paying, but has she done more harm than good, bearing in mind that
:04:12. > :04:16.immigration is such a central part for a lot of people in this debate?
:04:17. > :04:19.Migration goes both ways, and of course the majority of migration
:04:20. > :04:24.into the UK at the moment is still from outside the European Union, and
:04:25. > :04:29.there are forms of migration we desperately need, whether that is
:04:30. > :04:32.nurses from Italy or Spain, countries that have deliberately
:04:33. > :04:35.trained to many nurses and we need nurses in my local hospital, or
:04:36. > :04:39.international students that you want from every part of the world to come
:04:40. > :04:42.to study in the UK and strengthen their relationship with the UK. You
:04:43. > :04:46.could still do that from outside the EU? Yes, but you couldn't have the 2
:04:47. > :04:50.million British people who go to other countries in the European
:04:51. > :04:54.Union. You have to bear in mind that the countries whose nationals most
:04:55. > :04:59.use the freedom of movement are the British, because we have 2 million
:05:00. > :05:01.living elsewhere in the European Union, and of course, younger
:05:02. > :05:07.generations in particular really value that freedom to go and study,
:05:08. > :05:14.travel, work, and older generations to retire, in other countries in the
:05:15. > :05:19.European Union without hindrance. It is true to say that leaving the EU
:05:20. > :05:22.wouldn't automatically mean a significant reduction in
:05:23. > :05:26.immigration? What it would mean as we stop the free movement. The
:05:27. > :05:31.question of price worth paying, we have just introduced the National
:05:32. > :05:36.living wage, and that will rise to over ?9 per hour by 2020, the
:05:37. > :05:43.question we all have to ask is, there's an national living wage,
:05:44. > :05:46.women working part-time... Is it not a good thing? It is a good thing,
:05:47. > :05:51.but the freedom of movement puts huge pressure on those people, set
:05:52. > :05:54.it at a price worth paying for them? According to the Government's own
:05:55. > :06:01.official figures, 3 million people will come into this country by 2030.
:06:02. > :06:04.You have to remember that if you are progressive politician who worries
:06:05. > :06:08.about people on low wages, the freedom of movement hurts them the
:06:09. > :06:14.most, that is the question here, and Chris has to answer that. It is a
:06:15. > :06:17.pull factor. I think most migration is driven by push factors rather
:06:18. > :06:20.than pull factors, that is to say whether your country is a safe place
:06:21. > :06:25.and whether there is work and employment or the rest of it. You
:06:26. > :06:29.have had polls coming under your government, you have to be honest
:06:30. > :06:32.with your constituents. I will like after my constituents, you look
:06:33. > :06:38.after your is, but the point that he has to answer is, he says, as do
:06:39. > :06:42.several other Brexit supporters, if we leave the European Union, we will
:06:43. > :06:44.end free movement of labour, but that is completely and utterly
:06:45. > :06:48.untrue, there isn't a single trade deal that countries have done, that
:06:49. > :06:50.the EU has done with other countries that doesn't also mean that you have
:06:51. > :06:57.to adopt free movement of labour. First of all, do you think that that
:06:58. > :07:00.increase in the national living wage will be a massive pull factor for
:07:01. > :07:11.people to come here? The reason people come here is because yes! I
:07:12. > :07:22.am just teasing you. Well, behave. White let him answer. Evil come here
:07:23. > :07:34.because we have -- people come here because we have a good economy, and
:07:35. > :07:39.I think we need to clamp down on the crowding of houses that undercuts
:07:40. > :07:44.local workers. Name a country that has the status at the moment of a
:07:45. > :07:49.very good trade deal with no tariffs with the European Union, and doesn't
:07:50. > :07:57.sign up to the freedom of movement. Yes, you can. Where? Before I became
:07:58. > :07:59.of Parliament, I rang YouGov, and we went across the whole of
:08:00. > :08:03.Scandinavia, there is an single market in services, but we did
:08:04. > :08:12.really well. Elon musk has just sold $10 billion of cars in three days...
:08:13. > :08:21.I just want a country. We are the first large economy in the world.
:08:22. > :08:25.Name a country. My point is we are a massive economy, let's not talk
:08:26. > :08:29.ourselves down. What I'm asking for is a country that has this amazing
:08:30. > :08:33.deal and status and doesn't have freedom of movement. There isn't
:08:34. > :08:35.one? No, but we can have a trade deal like we have a special
:08:36. > :08:40.relationship with other countries, we can have a trade deal. There
:08:41. > :08:46.isn't a country that has ever been able to negotiate such a deal. We
:08:47. > :08:49.are not Switzerland or Norway, where the fifth largest economy in the
:08:50. > :08:57.world. But you want us to be Switzerland or Norway. No, I don't.
:08:58. > :09:01.Let's be strong, the New World is about innovation, not about
:09:02. > :09:02.population. I'm going to have to stop you there because we will run
:09:03. > :09:04.out of the rest of the show! The question for today
:09:05. > :09:08.is all about Shakespeare - Nadhim of course is the MP
:09:09. > :09:11.for Stratford-on-Avon so this should It is, of course, 400 years
:09:12. > :09:14.since the Bard "shuffled But that hasn't deterred us
:09:15. > :09:18.here at the Daily Politics. We can cross now to our little
:09:19. > :09:21.theatre in the sky and speak to William Shakespeare and he has
:09:22. > :09:25.a little quiz for us. I wrote "A fool doth think
:09:26. > :09:28.he is wise, but the wise man knows So do you know which of these four
:09:29. > :09:34.European Union countries was not Spain, Portugal, the Czech
:09:35. > :09:50.Republic or Croatia? Thank you very much, and at the end
:09:51. > :09:54.of the show, you can give us a correct answer. It is always
:09:55. > :09:57.debatable. There was a flurry activity over
:09:58. > :10:00.the weekend as all sides in the junior doctors' dispute tried
:10:01. > :10:03.to work out a way of avoiding Hospitals across England are busy
:10:04. > :10:10.making final preparations to cope with the walkout
:10:11. > :10:15.that starts tomorrow. As things stand, junior doctors
:10:16. > :10:18.in England will walk out from all hospital services,
:10:19. > :10:20.including accident and emergency, between 8am and 5pm
:10:21. > :10:28.on Tuesday and Wednesday. Essential care will be provided
:10:29. > :10:33.by consultants and other senior staff during the strike,
:10:34. > :10:36.and NHS England has said that A departments will remain open
:10:37. > :10:38.throughout the strike whilst GP surgeries may "experience
:10:39. > :10:41.greater demand." NHS England says over a hundred
:10:42. > :10:47.thousand outpatient appointments and 12,000 planned
:10:48. > :10:51.operations will be delayed. Over the weekend, Shadow Health
:10:52. > :10:53.Secretary Heidi Alexander organised a compromise proposal
:10:54. > :10:58.which would see the new doctors' contracts piloted first,
:10:59. > :11:03.the plan was also endorsed by the former Conservative health
:11:04. > :11:05.minister, Dr Dan Poulter, Norman Lamb from the Liberal
:11:06. > :11:07.Democrats and the SNP's However, Health Secretary Jeremy
:11:08. > :11:15.Hunt rejected the idea, arguing the Government had always planned
:11:16. > :11:18.to phase in the new contract Mr Hunt wrote to the British Medical
:11:19. > :11:22.Association asking them to call off the strike and asking
:11:23. > :11:26.for a meeting today. He went on to warn that the strike
:11:27. > :11:30."risks the safety of many patients" The BMA responded that
:11:31. > :11:32.if the imposition of new contracts was removed, the strike
:11:33. > :11:43.would be called off. Well, joining me now from outside
:11:44. > :11:50.the Department of Health is Junior Dr David Lonsdale. We will come to
:11:51. > :11:55.him in a moment. Nadhim Zahawi, no one wants this strike to happen, and
:11:56. > :11:58.of course over the weekend, a cross-party group of MPs including
:11:59. > :12:01.former Conservative Minister proposed a compromise that wouldn't
:12:02. > :12:08.stop the new contracts, but at least might have stopped strike. Why
:12:09. > :12:13.wasn't it considered? The strike is deeply irresponsible and wrong, and
:12:14. > :12:18.I hope they think twice about it. The reason from my reading of the
:12:19. > :12:23.fact is that the contract is that 11% of junior doctors will be on it
:12:24. > :12:27.in August, so to have a pilot is unnecessary, there is already a
:12:28. > :12:32.phasing. And it will cause unnecessary delay. If you are
:12:33. > :12:38.already phrasing it, why would you slow things down? Because it might
:12:39. > :12:44.have meant the strike wouldn't have happened! The whole contract is
:12:45. > :12:48.agreed other than Saturday pay, so the only thing remaining outstanding
:12:49. > :12:52.Saturday pay. The BMA refused to sit with Jeremy and talk about Saturday
:12:53. > :12:57.pay, and that is why we are where we are. If they just sit down and talk
:12:58. > :13:05.about Saturday pay, that is where we are. Everything else is agreed. Lets
:13:06. > :13:08.talk to David Lonsdale. Has the BMA made it a precondition that until
:13:09. > :13:14.and less Jeremy Hunt actually removes the imposition of the
:13:15. > :13:17.contract, you won't even meet? That's the thing that needs to
:13:18. > :13:25.happen to talks to resume, but I will come back to that. If you are
:13:26. > :13:28.going to have negotiations, meaningful negotiations, they cannot
:13:29. > :13:33.be done with a gun to your head, and that is what imposition is. That is
:13:34. > :13:39.set by a political timetable, there is no need to do it in August. It
:13:40. > :13:43.could be at any stage throughout the year, are the important thing with a
:13:44. > :13:46.contract is that it is right, proper, finished, safe from patients
:13:47. > :13:50.unfair to doctors. Watch your guest has said which is that it is all
:13:51. > :13:56.about Saturday pay, that is nonsense. Jeremy Hunt wrote over the
:13:57. > :13:59.weekend and outline four points over which there were still work to be
:14:00. > :14:04.done, and these include issues over working conditions the doctors in
:14:05. > :14:07.terms of hours worked, conditions over people with families,
:14:08. > :14:11.specifically therefore referring to the equality impact assessment which
:14:12. > :14:15.says this contract will disproportionately affect women
:14:16. > :14:20.trainees, which is a disgrace in 2016, as well as other issues to do
:14:21. > :14:23.with Drs' training. It is farcical that we are in a situation where
:14:24. > :14:26.Jeremy Hunt has issued a letter acknowledging there is still work to
:14:27. > :14:30.be done but he won't sit down and talked about it. What kind of
:14:31. > :14:34.situation is this? Let's put that to Nadhim Zahawi. Jeremy Hunt is not
:14:35. > :14:39.handling this in anyway to take the heat out of what has become an
:14:40. > :14:43.extremely poisonous argument between junior doctors and the Health
:14:44. > :14:47.Secretary. I think he has been very patient, this has been going on for
:14:48. > :14:50.years, this negotiation. What we have to do is look at what is
:14:51. > :14:56.substantive that is left, which is the Saturday pay. Answer the
:14:57. > :15:03.question from Dagan Lonsdale, that the contract hasn't been formulated
:15:04. > :15:10.properly. They are refusing because of Saturday pay, that is the crux of
:15:11. > :15:15.it. The question you have to put to them is that we could get back to
:15:16. > :15:19.the negotiating table. So, why do you have a precondition, when you
:15:20. > :15:22.are talking about potentially putting patients' lives at risk with
:15:23. > :15:28.this all-out strike the first time in the history of the NHS, you even
:15:29. > :15:29.sit down and meet the Department of Health or Jeremy Hunt to talk about
:15:30. > :15:40.these contracts? For starters, I am not a requisite
:15:41. > :15:43.stove of the BMA, I am just a junior doctor, but your guest has repeated
:15:44. > :15:48.the government spin about it being Saturday pay, despite Jeremy Hunt
:15:49. > :15:53.writing to say that it is about four other things. It is a complete
:15:54. > :15:56.nonsense to say it is about Saturday pay. There is more work to be done.
:15:57. > :16:00.I would draw your attention to the letter from their BMA saying that
:16:01. > :16:06.all that needed to happen for the strike to be lifted is for Jeremy
:16:07. > :16:11.Hunt to lift his position. We have been prepared to work with others
:16:12. > :16:16.through this but the government have not been. I take your point, but the
:16:17. > :16:19.BMA is using that as a precondition. So you are blocking a potential
:16:20. > :16:23.negotiation here on your side, which is why the government sources are
:16:24. > :16:29.now saying that this is a political strike and you are trying to bring
:16:30. > :16:33.down the government. Are you? That is complete nonsense. This has never
:16:34. > :16:37.been about personality. Junior doctors have always said they want
:16:38. > :16:41.to work with the government to keep the NHS as a world-class
:16:42. > :16:45.organisation. We need to have an honest and frank discussion about
:16:46. > :16:49.what we can afford in 2016, in times of austerity, set by this
:16:50. > :16:52.government, and what we cannot do is simply click our fingers and say
:16:53. > :16:56.that a seven-day NHS will happen without extra funding and staff,
:16:57. > :17:00.because it meets our manifesto commitment. What the government has
:17:01. > :17:04.to do with manifestos is have a plan to implement them after they are
:17:05. > :17:07.elected. That is the problem here. The Conservative government has been
:17:08. > :17:19.elected on the back of a promise for which they have no
:17:20. > :17:22.funding or planning. Doctors are being risen over for political
:17:23. > :17:25.expediency, and that is the problem, because doctors do not want to be on
:17:26. > :17:27.strike, they want to work with the government and make the health care
:17:28. > :17:30.system sustainable and safer for patients. Let's now Nadhim Zahawi
:17:31. > :17:40.add to that. -- let Nadhim Zahawi answer that. We talked about the
:17:41. > :17:44.manifesto. We pledged to deliver this with more resources, ?10
:17:45. > :17:53.billion more. That is what we have delivered. Last week, we announced
:17:54. > :17:57.the investment in 5000 more GPs, and we want to talk to junior doctors. I
:17:58. > :18:04.think Jeremy has gone the extra mile, to say... Then left the
:18:05. > :18:07.imposition of the contract. Let's talk about what is the stand to have
:18:08. > :18:16.left on the table, just the Saturday pay. -- what is substantive. This
:18:17. > :18:19.proposal, Chris Bryant, was there anything in that? It has been
:18:20. > :18:25.rejected here by its Nadhim Zahawi because the contracts were going to
:18:26. > :18:27.be phased in any way. Was it political opportunism? Everyone
:18:28. > :18:32.wants an opportunity to stop the strike. The best way to do that is
:18:33. > :18:38.to make sure there is a negotiated settlement. I point out that it is
:18:39. > :18:44.not just the Labour Party, it is also Dan Botha, who was in Jeremy
:18:45. > :18:48.Hunt's health team as a Tory MP, and is a doctor. But the point I make is
:18:49. > :18:53.that we're not having the strike in Wales, which is where the NHS is
:18:54. > :19:00.run, because we have not decided to to war. But that is making a party
:19:01. > :19:06.political. But that is just a fact. The doctor spoke very well. With the
:19:07. > :19:10.?2 million top-down reorganisation in the last Parliament, it seems
:19:11. > :19:13.like the government has gone to war with the NHS. Dagan Lonsdale, is
:19:14. > :19:18.Jeremy Hunt wrong when he says the strike risks the safety of many
:19:19. > :19:24.patients? That is what most people watching will want to know. As one
:19:25. > :19:27.of the papers said today, don't be sick tomorrow. I don't like this
:19:28. > :19:31.sensationalism in the media because we have to be clear about what is
:19:32. > :19:35.happening tomorrow. It is nine hours were care will be provided by the
:19:36. > :19:41.more senior doctors. I cannot talk to you about what is happening at
:19:42. > :19:45.other hospitals. But people will be at risk? I don't believe they will
:19:46. > :19:48.be at my hospital where there are 100 doctors prepared for this event,
:19:49. > :19:52.the most qualified in the country. Over the weekend we saw letters with
:19:53. > :19:56.thousands of consultants saying they will keep patients safe and if
:19:57. > :20:00.people are unwell and need to come to A tomorrow, they should do so.
:20:01. > :20:03.It is wrong for the government to scaremonger when emergency care will
:20:04. > :20:10.be provided by the most experienced doctors in the country. Can I come
:20:11. > :20:13.back to the point about ?10 million? It is complete government spent to
:20:14. > :20:20.suggest that this is new funding from the NHS. It is funding that was
:20:21. > :20:24.not included in the manifesto pledge. The reason the talk has been
:20:25. > :20:28.derailed is because the government has wedged in a seven-day NHS on a
:20:29. > :20:32.cost neutral basis which will not happen. It is completely impossible
:20:33. > :20:37.without extra funding and staffing. Dagan Lonsdale, thank you very much.
:20:38. > :20:41.And that strike is going ahead. In the run-up to the election on May
:20:42. > :20:43.the 5th, we will be bringing you details of all the contests
:20:44. > :20:50.including those that involve legislators. Today, it is the turn
:20:51. > :20:54.of Northern Ireland and we have been out on the campaign trail to see
:20:55. > :20:59.what the parties are offering and to ask if anything much will change.
:21:00. > :21:08.There have been arguments over setting the budget, together with
:21:09. > :21:11.coming to terms with the past, threatening to derail devolution in
:21:12. > :21:15.Northern Ireland. But despite one party withdrawing from the
:21:16. > :21:19.power-sharing executive last summer, Stormont has seen the longest period
:21:20. > :21:21.of default rule since the Good Friday agreement. Northern Ireland
:21:22. > :21:26.goes to the polls in a few weeks' time and there are 108 seats up for
:21:27. > :21:29.grabs in there. The parties are just kicking off their campaigns. I
:21:30. > :21:33.better get a move on if I am going to get around them all. First up,
:21:34. > :21:37.the manifesto launch of the biggest party. Arlene Foster is the leader
:21:38. > :21:40.of the DUP and the current first Minister of Northern Ireland. Given
:21:41. > :21:45.that the system is setup to make sure that all sections of the
:21:46. > :21:48.community represented around the top table, I her if anything is likely
:21:49. > :21:52.to change at this election. We are in a unimaginably coalition and one
:21:53. > :21:55.of the policies we set up is to move to a voluntary coalition because we
:21:56. > :22:00.think that is the way that it should work in Northern Ireland. But you
:22:01. > :22:05.are right, it will be the same parties back again but depending on
:22:06. > :22:09.their strength, we will see how many ministries they will be able to take
:22:10. > :22:12.in. I have a different vision for Northern Ireland than Martin
:22:13. > :22:15.McGuinness, for example, so it is important that people understand
:22:16. > :22:22.those plans. We are late, come on. Moments later, it is the DUP, who
:22:23. > :22:28.quit the executive last year amid concerns about the provisional IRA.
:22:29. > :22:30.We have had a devolved government for 18 years and it is about the
:22:31. > :22:32.economy and health