:00:38. > :00:49.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:50. > :00:51.More Labour members and councillors are suspended over
:00:52. > :00:55.Can Jeremy Corbyn stem the flow of negative headlines for the party
:00:56. > :01:01.It's supposed to turn Generation Rent into Generation Own
:01:02. > :01:04.- but the Government's Housing Bill's been changed 13
:01:05. > :01:07.times in the Lords - will the radical reforms survive?
:01:08. > :01:09.Thousands of job losses are threatened at the Port
:01:10. > :01:12.Talbot steel works - how will the uncertainty affect
:01:13. > :01:16.Thursday's elections to the Welsh Assembly?
:01:17. > :01:19.And campaigners say they're just letting their kids be kids.
:01:20. > :01:21.But are parents helping them skip school tests today
:01:22. > :01:35.All that in the next hour, and with us someone who's not
:01:36. > :01:40.In fact, like the Westminster class swot, he's been putting in extra
:01:41. > :01:42.hours on our TV screens in recent days, Ukip leader Nigel
:01:43. > :01:54.We'll not be asking Nigel about the pronunciation
:01:55. > :02:03.of his surname today - but we do want to talk
:02:04. > :02:06.about whether he's been spending - as the Daily Mail's alleging -
:02:07. > :02:09.That money's from the ?2.5 million the party receives
:02:10. > :02:14.You have bodyguards? Yes. Funny enough I'm the only political
:02:15. > :02:19.leader, or I guess politician of prominence in the UK, who gets zero
:02:20. > :02:23.help from the taxpayer, zero help from the authorities in this
:02:24. > :02:28.country. We have asked. Particularly after last April when my family were
:02:29. > :02:34.attacked on a Sunday lunchtime, which was pretty nasty. But where do
:02:35. > :02:38.the EU funds come from? Let's just get this straight. I don't get any
:02:39. > :02:44.help at all. Without it I wouldn't be here. The hard left have been so
:02:45. > :02:50.vicious and so nasty. What we do... After this show I go down to street
:02:51. > :02:54.canvas in south Wales, I do a public event tonight, I go to Lincolnshire
:02:55. > :02:57.this evening to do the same again tomorrow. I have to have people
:02:58. > :03:02.drive me and look after me, that's reasonable. We fund all of that
:03:03. > :03:07.through private donations. I've never used a penny of my European
:03:08. > :03:12.allowances, which I get to employ staff to do security. This
:03:13. > :03:16.ridiculous story... Why is it ridiculous? Because it's not me,
:03:17. > :03:23.it's about organising public events and having security around them. But
:03:24. > :03:27.you have bodyguards everyday? Funded through private subscription because
:03:28. > :03:30.the authorities in this country or the Government in this country won't
:03:31. > :03:38.give me any help. So you don't use any of that money from that fund to
:03:39. > :03:43.the EU group that you are head of? No, this story was about public
:03:44. > :03:49.events in this country. So not your personal bodyguards? We are the only
:03:50. > :03:54.party of any group that hold genuine public events and you have to have
:03:55. > :04:00.security. How much does that cost? It can be expensive, it depends
:04:01. > :04:07.where the event is. You can see why the charge of hypocrisy can be put
:04:08. > :04:11.to you? No, hang on! You have spend your whole political career claiming
:04:12. > :04:16.that the EU is a waste of taxpayers's money and waste it on
:04:17. > :04:19.spurious things. People might say you spending it on bodyguards even
:04:20. > :04:28.for public events is the same thing. I've spent many years to...
:04:29. > :04:33.Hopefully we will vote for Brexit, I will be redundant and there will be
:04:34. > :04:41.no need. We will come to that later on, whether you will be of -- out of
:04:42. > :04:43.a job. I'm a turkey who will happily vote for Christmas.
:04:44. > :04:46.Now, Jeremy Corbyn's insisted that he acted swiftly to suspend
:04:47. > :04:49.Naz Shah and then Ken Livingstone after his comments on this and other
:04:50. > :04:55.But the story about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party refuses to go
:04:56. > :04:58.away, with reports in this morning's papers that as many as 50
:04:59. > :04:59.Labour Party members have been suspended.
:05:00. > :05:02.Jeremy Corbyn was trying - but failing - to change the subject
:05:03. > :05:06.this morning at a poster launch supporting the party's
:05:07. > :05:08.campaign for the local elections on Thursday.
:05:09. > :05:18.We're not going to lose seats. We are looking to gain seats where we
:05:19. > :05:21.can. These elections are being fought on the issues of every
:05:22. > :05:28.different community around the country and fought on the record of
:05:29. > :05:31.what this government is about. The anti-Semitic issue is being dealt
:05:32. > :05:36.with by the head of a commission on this, Shami chakra
:05:37. > :05:45.-- anyone caught making anti-Semitic remarks is immediately suspended
:05:46. > :05:48.pending investigation. Let's speak to Tom Newton Dunn
:05:49. > :05:58.of the Sun, and Kevin Welcome to both of you on this fine
:05:59. > :06:02.sunny day. Tom, Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will not lose ground in the
:06:03. > :06:05.elections and the party are looking to make games. You would hope that
:06:06. > :06:10.would be what an opposition leader would say. All polls point
:06:11. > :06:15.otherwise. Is he burying his head in the sand? I think he's making a very
:06:16. > :06:20.dangerous point indeed because he is a hostage to fortune. If Labour
:06:21. > :06:24.don't make games, that is the clip people will replay to say he's got
:06:25. > :06:28.it wrong. That is what the rebels are hoping to do come Friday or
:06:29. > :06:32.Saturday. Their quiet at the moment but believe you me they will be all
:06:33. > :06:38.over channels and programmes like yours to save Corbyn has failed by
:06:39. > :06:43.his own targets. By his own estimate he has not made any progress and we
:06:44. > :06:49.are going quits, if of course the party does not make any games. The
:06:50. > :06:52.best thing in politics to do is underplay and overdeliver. If you do
:06:53. > :06:56.if the other way round, you set yourself up for a fall. You're
:06:57. > :07:01.laughing, Kevin Maguire. Jeremy Corbyn will obviously be asked about
:07:02. > :07:06.the crisis that some people see at the anti-Semitism crisis in the
:07:07. > :07:12.party. He says it's been dealt with but the announcement of an inquiry
:07:13. > :07:15.suggests otherwise? He was laughing at the suggestion of moderates who
:07:16. > :07:19.seem hell-bent on toppling him within the party. I think there's
:07:20. > :07:24.nothing moderate about that group, arranged possibly but not moderate.
:07:25. > :07:29.The figure of 50 people supposedly suspended for anti-Semitism or
:07:30. > :07:33.racism over the last two months, reporting by the Daily Telegraph,
:07:34. > :07:38.has been denied by the Labour Party, which says this figure is 16 in the
:07:39. > :07:42.time since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader. But Jeremy Corbyn has a
:07:43. > :07:46.problem, certainly perception, there are some changes where you would
:07:47. > :07:52.worry about the fact that an inquiry has been announced. Is this on top
:07:53. > :07:57.of a previous inquiry would suggest that he knows that too and he can't
:07:58. > :08:01.shake off the row at the moment. His opponents don't want him to and it
:08:02. > :08:05.means that any other argument he has about the economy, the NHS or
:08:06. > :08:09.whatever, is very difficult for him. Difficult, Kevin Maguire, because he
:08:10. > :08:13.didn't deal with it quickly enough despite his supporters saying he
:08:14. > :08:20.did? I think he did deal with it quite quickly. Naz Shah, there was
:08:21. > :08:27.an argument that he should have suspended her earlier, on the first
:08:28. > :08:31.day. But the other one, it did not do Labour is any good but it was
:08:32. > :08:39.kind of compulsive viewing, he was on a trip up north, he was going to
:08:40. > :08:43.lay a wreath at a memorial and he did it in a couple of hours. When
:08:44. > :08:49.you consider he and Ken Livingstone go back 30 or 40 years, old comrade
:08:50. > :08:53.'s, Ken Livingstone one of his few real vocal supporters, although I
:08:54. > :08:59.accept what Cabinet Minister Alan Johnson says, but nevertheless you
:09:00. > :09:08.have to find out what has happened. Then do you just suspend Ken
:09:09. > :09:13.Livingstone or do you suspend Mann too? He acted pretty quickly and I
:09:14. > :09:18.think the criticism on the Ken Livingstone case is not fair. Let's
:09:19. > :09:23.talk about the moderates. Or the crazed loons as Kevin has just
:09:24. > :09:30.described them! You can pick your description... Senior Labour MPs
:09:31. > :09:34.believe they have chosen Margaret Hodge to stand as a stalking horse
:09:35. > :09:39.against Jeremy Corbyn to spark a leadership contest. You can see them
:09:40. > :09:43.walking around behind us now. I don't think many of them are in the
:09:44. > :09:46.Shadow Cabinet although there are one or two in the Shadow Cabinet
:09:47. > :09:50.certainly happily talking to the plotters. I can't possibly name
:09:51. > :09:54.them, as you understand, but they are senior people, real people will
:09:55. > :09:59.stop my bet is that now they almost certainly will. There seems to be a
:10:00. > :10:04.shift change in the parliamentary party that two or three months ago
:10:05. > :10:08.was, well, we shouldn't do that because we won't win and that will
:10:09. > :10:11.just embolden Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, if he wins a second
:10:12. > :10:15.leadership contest, we're not going to be able to challenge him for
:10:16. > :10:18.years. They are now thinking we are morally bound to challenge him no
:10:19. > :10:22.matter what, simply because that is our duty, we have to keep this fight
:10:23. > :10:27.going and we have to keep on trying to question him. You hang around the
:10:28. > :10:29.same sort of places as Tom, Kevin, around Westminster, is this clue
:10:30. > :10:39.about to happen after the local elections? -- is this coup? I don't
:10:40. > :10:43.know, if it does I think it would be after the local elections, June 23.
:10:44. > :10:47.But there is no doubt there is a sizeable minority, whether you count
:10:48. > :10:50.them in dozens or scores, who are hell-bent on toppling Jeremy Corbyn.
:10:51. > :10:55.Most of the Parliamentary party Labour MPs are, I would say
:10:56. > :10:59.disgruntled, believing it would be wrong to try to topple him now and
:11:00. > :11:03.he should be allowed to succeed or fail on his own terms. They also
:11:04. > :11:07.know that if they tried to keep Jeremy Corbyn or perhaps John
:11:08. > :11:11.McDonald off the ballot in a Labour should -- Labour leadership
:11:12. > :11:15.election, the party would be ungovernable, you would be excluding
:11:16. > :11:19.the members. I noticed Margaret Hodge has been silent and I noticed
:11:20. > :11:28.other names touted around. There were some cat flaps in John-- in
:11:29. > :11:36.Tom's story... She would probably like to be put forward, she will do
:11:37. > :11:43.it. She holed out of the London mayoral race. There is a group of
:11:44. > :11:47.Labour MPs whose sole political reason for existing now is getting
:11:48. > :11:50.rid of Corbyn. Tom, you were nodding, just very brave Lee, that
:11:51. > :11:56.the party would be ungovernable if there was an attempt to keep Jeremy
:11:57. > :11:59.Corbyn or John McDonald off the ballot paper? That's right because I
:12:00. > :12:07.as much as they plot, and they really are plotting, they still have
:12:08. > :12:10.this in transient problem where the membership is still overwhelmingly
:12:11. > :12:16.in support of Jeremy Corbyn. You've got a rock going up against a hard
:12:17. > :12:19.place. There are also reports that Alan Johnson, famous former Home
:12:20. > :12:23.Secretary, the darling of the Labour Party, was also approached to be the
:12:24. > :12:28.stalking horse and has refused. It is not everybody on the moderate
:12:29. > :12:33.side, or the arranged lunatic side as Mr Maguire would have them, who
:12:34. > :12:36.thinks it is the right thing right now. Both of you will be kept busy!
:12:37. > :12:42.Don't look too gleeful, both of you! Now, amongst at least three
:12:43. > :12:44.Labour Party councillors who were suspended from the party
:12:45. > :12:46.yesterday is the Burnley councillor Shah Hussain,
:12:47. > :12:59.who joins us now from Blackburn. Shah Hussain, what do you mean by
:13:00. > :13:00.your tweet that you should see what the rest of the world thinks about
:13:01. > :13:12.your tweet? Right, firstly I'm quite
:13:13. > :13:24.disappointed that the tweet has come out now in 2016. It was written
:13:25. > :13:28.juror in 2014, during the Gaza crisis, in response to another
:13:29. > :13:37.footballer making a comment about killing of children in Gaza --
:13:38. > :13:40.killing off children in Gaza. It was written then and now it's come out,
:13:41. > :13:45.I'm assuming it's come out because of political reasons... But do you
:13:46. > :13:50.still believe that sentiment about comparing Israel and what the
:13:51. > :13:54.Israeli government is doing in your mind to children in Gaza with what
:13:55. > :14:07.Hitler did when Hitler murdered 6 million
:14:08. > :14:15.Jews and political opponents. What I was saying is that what happened in
:14:16. > :14:23.Gaza can be made compatible to what happened to the Jews. Do you think
:14:24. > :14:30.it's appropriate in your role as a counsellor to exact comparison? I
:14:31. > :14:35.was merely stating about events that happened. But do you think it was
:14:36. > :14:39.appropriate? It was appropriate in 2014 when the conflict between
:14:40. > :14:44.Israelis and Palestinians were taking place and innocent children
:14:45. > :14:50.were losing their lives. Yes, at that time... You made that
:14:51. > :14:54.historical comparison with Hitler and where 6 million Jews were
:14:55. > :15:00.murdered, you would say that to an Israeli? I was stating at that time
:15:01. > :15:04.what was happening within Gaza. What did you mean by your tweet about we
:15:05. > :15:09.will see what the rest of the world thinks. What does the rest of the
:15:10. > :15:13.world think? In terms of what? In terms of what was happening in Gaza
:15:14. > :15:17.at that time? There was an outcry within the rest of the world about
:15:18. > :15:23.what was happening within Gaza. That's what I meant.
:15:24. > :15:30.What do you think about your suspension from the Labour Party? It
:15:31. > :15:36.is unfortunate, that in the present climate, the witchhunt that is going
:15:37. > :15:42.on, I thought it was expected that it would happen. You did expect it?
:15:43. > :15:48.Will you fight the suspension? Obviously. In your mind, is it
:15:49. > :15:52.appropriate for any politician when criticising regimes they dislike,
:15:53. > :15:57.for example politicians have said they dislike Saudi or Pakistan or
:15:58. > :16:03.Egypt or Syria, is it also fair to say it is the fault of the people
:16:04. > :16:08.who live in those countries? Like I said, I was merely stating what was
:16:09. > :16:12.happening in 2014. It is unfortunate that I happen to be a Muslim
:16:13. > :16:18.Council, therefore my comments have been taken out of context and as
:16:19. > :16:24.such they have been censored. What context have they been taken out of?
:16:25. > :16:30.Why am I on this television show today, trying to explain comments
:16:31. > :16:34.made in 2014? Are you saying you don't agree with those comments now?
:16:35. > :16:38.Are you saying that if I was not a Muslim councillor I would still be
:16:39. > :16:44.here? If you insert a different words into some of the tweet, if you
:16:45. > :16:49.link the actions of a Syrian or Egyptian government with the rights
:16:50. > :16:54.and lives of Arabs generally, would that be appropriate, even in 2014,
:16:55. > :17:00.or today? If dictators were killing those people, yes. So how would you
:17:01. > :17:08.fight your suspension from the Labour Party? That is to discuss
:17:09. > :17:14.with my colleagues and so on. I was merely here trying to state as to
:17:15. > :17:20.why that a tweet that has made in 2014 has become relevant in 2016. Is
:17:21. > :17:25.it because of a political agenda that is happening? Is it because a
:17:26. > :17:31.Muslim councillor, and, as such, those comments have been taken into
:17:32. > :17:33.that context? You think you are being unfairly targeted, you do not
:17:34. > :17:39.think there is anything wrong with those comments? You told the press
:17:40. > :17:45.Association that you would bite the suspension and added that if Jewish
:17:46. > :17:49.people found your comparison of what Hitler did to the Jews with what is
:17:50. > :17:53.happening in Gaza offensive, they had to think about what is happening
:17:54. > :17:58.in the rest of the world. I said that what was happening in 2014 in
:17:59. > :18:03.Gaza and Palestine can be comparable to what happened to European Jews in
:18:04. > :18:07.World War II. Shah Hussain, in the studio we have Keith Vaz, the Labour
:18:08. > :18:11.MP who chairs the Home Affairs Select Committee, what do you think
:18:12. > :18:16.about what he is saying, that it is appropriate to make that comparison?
:18:17. > :18:20.I personally believe it is totally inappropriate, but I will not
:18:21. > :18:24.discuss his case, because I sit on the National Executive Committee and
:18:25. > :18:28.may have to deal with his case, so I will not talk about particular
:18:29. > :18:32.cases, but I will talk about an attitude. I think Jeremy Corbyn was
:18:33. > :18:36.absolutely right to set up this inquiry. There needs to be a full
:18:37. > :18:41.inquiry into this issue. There is a problem within the party which needs
:18:42. > :18:46.to be addressed. To that that Shami Chakrabarti in charge is right, you
:18:47. > :18:51.cannot tell her what to do. -- to put Shami Chakrabarti in charge. I
:18:52. > :18:55.spoke to her, I do nothing to McCrimmon 's will be enough. I think
:18:56. > :18:59.she will have to do an interim report. Judging by the number of
:19:00. > :19:03.e-mails that I get on the issue of racism, I think she will want to
:19:04. > :19:07.examine those as well. Lots of people will want to give evidence.
:19:08. > :19:13.The Home Affairs Select Committee has its own investigation into
:19:14. > :19:17.anti-Semitism. You would denounce this tweet, even if made at the
:19:18. > :19:22.height of the Gaza conflict? Absolutely, there is no room for
:19:23. > :19:25.anti-Semitism or racism in the Labour Party. I have been a member
:19:26. > :19:30.for four decades and would not be a member of a party that allowed such
:19:31. > :19:35.views to be tolerated. On this particular case, he will have to go
:19:36. > :19:40.through a process and put his views forward. I will not talk about him,
:19:41. > :19:45.I might be sitting on his case, but I will say that those views
:19:46. > :19:50.expressed by anyone repugnant and should not be accepted and should be
:19:51. > :19:57.condemned absolutely. Shah Hussain, what is your reaction? I made a
:19:58. > :20:04.tweet in 2014, in response to a tweet done by a footballer saying,
:20:05. > :20:08.stop killing children. I merely stated what was happening in
:20:09. > :20:14.Palestine. I did not make an anti-Semitic comments. I believe
:20:15. > :20:19.that if we really wanted a debate about what is happening within
:20:20. > :20:28.Palestine, you have to get over this issue. Me being a Muslim, I feel
:20:29. > :20:34.that that tweet has been taken out of context. What do you say to that?
:20:35. > :20:39.Keith Vaz? We could talk forever about whether it was in or out of
:20:40. > :20:44.context, we now have an inquiry to look into this particular issue.
:20:45. > :20:47.Shah Hussain thinks it is a witchhunt, he thinks he is being
:20:48. > :20:52.attacked because he is a Muslim councillor. I don't think that is
:20:53. > :20:57.the case. Looking at Jeremy Corbyn peers history, where he comes from,
:20:58. > :21:01.what he has said about issues of this kind, he is not the sort of
:21:02. > :21:07.person that would lead a witchhunt. He wants a "Real. We should have a
:21:08. > :21:13.wider approach, look at structures and processes. Shami Chakrabarti
:21:14. > :21:19.putts inquiry will last for a long time. I was not in the country last
:21:20. > :21:24.week, it is not an excuse, but I do not think it was handled in the best
:21:25. > :21:32.way. Jeremy has pulled us back, he has this inquiry, the NEC will meet
:21:33. > :21:36.on the 17th of May. Shah Hussain, have you been contacted us to when
:21:37. > :21:41.you will be meeting with the National executive committee? I have
:21:42. > :21:49.not, but I have absolute faith in the Labour Party and its processes.
:21:50. > :21:54.Like he'd said, I welcome a thorough investigation into these issues. --
:21:55. > :21:59.Lake Keith Vaz said. In my case, I want to make it clear again, this
:22:00. > :22:03.tweet I made in 2014 was related to the Gaza conflict. You do not think
:22:04. > :22:09.it was anti-Semitic, you would say you are not anti-Semitic? The girl I
:22:10. > :22:14.merely commented on a response by a footballer to another footballer.
:22:15. > :22:23.But are you an anti-Semite? I am not. But I do see the issue of
:22:24. > :22:27.Palestine and Israel having a great effect on the Muslim community in
:22:28. > :22:36.Britain. When I go knocking on the doors, constituents tell me that the
:22:37. > :22:42.way the media and the governments and so on through the world... They
:22:43. > :22:45.see a different attitude towards conflict in the Middle East and
:22:46. > :22:52.conflicts elsewhere. Do you think it is fair to blame Jews in general?
:22:53. > :22:58.You are putting words into my mouth. I am asking a question. We should
:22:59. > :23:04.have a debate about what is happening, and the debate should be
:23:05. > :23:08.without being called a Semite. If you're making a statement which may
:23:09. > :23:11.not happen to be supportive of Israel. Thank you, Shah Hussain, for
:23:12. > :23:13.coming in. And the Labour MP Keith Vaz,
:23:14. > :23:16.who chairs the Home Affairs Select His Committee is holding an inquiry
:23:17. > :23:20.into anti-Semitism and is meeting this afternoon to consider
:23:21. > :23:22.whether one of the committee members, Naz Shah -
:23:23. > :23:24.who herself has been suspended from the Labour Party over suspected
:23:25. > :23:26.anti-Semitic tweets - can remain on the committee for that
:23:27. > :23:31.inquiry. She will be coming to the committee
:23:32. > :23:33.2pm and meeting with the committee and discussing it with the
:23:34. > :23:36.committee. That is what we have to wait for. She will be there, she
:23:37. > :23:41.will talk to the committee and a decision will be made. What is your
:23:42. > :23:45.view, should she still serve on the committee? I chair the committee, I
:23:46. > :23:48.think it is right that the committee as a whole should hear from Naz
:23:49. > :23:52.Shah, rather than give you my personal views. Chairman of
:23:53. > :23:59.selecting it is do not have the power to discipline, nor the power
:24:00. > :24:02.to remove -- chairman of select committees. She could still remain
:24:03. > :24:08.on the committee, while suspended from the Labour Party? It is an
:24:09. > :24:12.all-party committee, people are elected. She will come. I spoke to
:24:13. > :24:15.her last week, she is coming out 2pm to talk to the committee and a
:24:16. > :24:25.decision will be made today. Could she be called as a witness, given
:24:26. > :24:30.that it is an anti-Semitism and she has been suspended for anti-Semitic
:24:31. > :24:36.tweets? Anyone could be called, I hope we will publish today. Will Ken
:24:37. > :24:40.Livingstone be on that list? This inquiry predates the Labour Party
:24:41. > :24:44.inquiry. He might be, it depends on the committee. I do not choose all
:24:45. > :24:51.the witnesses, the committee as they whole decide. I already foresee that
:24:52. > :24:53.this will be a slightly longer inquiry than I anticipated when the
:24:54. > :24:59.senior member on the committee suggested that we hold one. I think
:25:00. > :25:02.anyone can give evidence and writing, but those who give oral
:25:03. > :25:07.evidence, we will specifically need to call. We have written to the
:25:08. > :25:16.leaders of all three parties and asked them... What impact will this
:25:17. > :25:20.have on Labour 's performance on Thursday 's elections? Of course it
:25:21. > :25:25.will have an impact, people do not like to see a disunited party. So I
:25:26. > :25:29.think Jeremy was right to try to pull something back from the slight
:25:30. > :25:35.shambles we had last week and put it on a proper process. At the end of
:25:36. > :25:39.the day people will decide on, for example, who they would like to see
:25:40. > :25:44.run London, Scotland, Wales and all the other areas. I think everyone
:25:45. > :25:50.agrees that it will have an impact. There are other things that will
:25:51. > :25:53.have an impact as well. I am sure in the city of Leicester, the recent
:25:54. > :25:58.success of my football team. And we can see you are wearing the scarf,
:25:59. > :26:04.and very loyal, as one of the city's MPs. One London assembly candidate
:26:05. > :26:08.has tweeted saying you can almost get away with offending anyone so
:26:09. > :26:15.long as they are not Jewish. How would you judge that? He is wrong to
:26:16. > :26:19.say that. I don't accept or agree with that, I hope he will have the
:26:20. > :26:26.opportunity of correcting what he has said. That cannot be right.
:26:27. > :26:35.Should he also be suspended? I don't make these decisions. How many more
:26:36. > :26:39.Mr Husseins are there? We saw him being interviewed, holy
:26:40. > :26:43.unapologetic, claiming 34-macro times that he is being victimised
:26:44. > :26:48.because he is a Muslim. When Corbyn went for the leadership, it is well
:26:49. > :26:53.known that he is very strongly pro-Palestinian, hugely critical of
:26:54. > :26:57.Israel and friendly with people who want to see Israel obliterate it. Of
:26:58. > :27:01.all those hundreds of thousands of people joined the Labour Party at
:27:02. > :27:05.three quid a pop last year, how many of those share that view? Nigel
:27:06. > :27:09.makes a very important point, but you knows from his party is that
:27:10. > :27:13.there are examples of individuals holding particular views and you
:27:14. > :27:17.take action, you have inquiries. The difference between how you and we
:27:18. > :27:22.handle it, we have handled it out of the party. You are right, when these
:27:23. > :27:26.views come forward they need to be dealt with, as you have in the past.
:27:27. > :27:32.This is Jeremy's way of dealing it, it is the right way. Nobody can tell
:27:33. > :27:35.Shami Chakrabarti what to do, she is completely independent and will say
:27:36. > :27:40.what she thinks is right. We should not be in a position where we make
:27:41. > :27:43.this decision, it has to be taken out of our hands. Nigel Farage,
:27:44. > :27:48.Keith Vaz is right, on this programme we have many times put to
:27:49. > :27:54.you very things that have been said and tweeted by Ukip members...
:27:55. > :27:59.Junior. But at the time you said they exist in every party, your
:28:00. > :28:01.party and every party. Week kick somebody from a fairly senior
:28:02. > :28:08.voluntary position not three months ago for making what we judge to be
:28:09. > :28:10.an unpleasant anti-Semitic comment -- we kicked in the Dieppe. All
:28:11. > :28:18.organisations have with this sort of thing. -- we kicked somebody out. I
:28:19. > :28:23.wonder how many Mr Husseins thereof. There has been a denial from the
:28:24. > :28:28.Labour Party that there have been 50s ended, it is about 16. It will
:28:29. > :28:32.finish higher than that. Once this can of worms is opened, people
:28:33. > :28:37.social media starts to be looked at all stop it will not go away, it
:28:38. > :28:44.will take some time. Longer than two months, I am sure. Has the Labour
:28:45. > :28:49.Party not allied it self too merge in many midlands and northern cities
:28:50. > :28:55.with sectarian politics? The Muslim vote is very, very big and many in
:28:56. > :29:01.cities. I suspect... Are you saying the Muslim community has
:29:02. > :29:04.anti-Semitic...? I saw George Galloway win the by-election in
:29:05. > :29:12.Bradford West on openly sectarian political lines. But it changed when
:29:13. > :29:17.Labour won it back. Did it? The way we look at communities is important,
:29:18. > :29:21.in the past it was the far left that used to manipulate communities in
:29:22. > :29:26.particular ways. This does not happen now, I'd believe. I think
:29:27. > :29:30.that is why it is important to look at these issues very carefully and
:29:31. > :29:35.less communities for themselves. Many people do not share the views
:29:36. > :29:39.we have heard today coming from this particular councillor, we should
:29:40. > :29:45.hear from them. Briefly, Leicester, have you been partying all night?
:29:46. > :29:48.Tottenham was 2-0 plus night, we thought we had lost, there was
:29:49. > :29:55.nobody outside the King Power Stadium. Two goals later, 2000
:29:56. > :30:00.people. It is a magnificent, multicultural city, and I think if
:30:01. > :30:03.anyone was looking for a manager, a leader of a country, then Claudio
:30:04. > :30:07.Ranieri... He will stand for party leader? He is not the stalking
:30:08. > :30:12.horse, but we are delighted. Now, the Government's housing bill
:30:13. > :30:14.is supposed to help get more young people on the housing ladder
:30:15. > :30:17.and arrest the reduction But the House of Lords has been
:30:18. > :30:23.taking a wrecking ball to the bill. This week it's back in the Commons,
:30:24. > :30:26.but in the face of widespread opposition will it look anything
:30:27. > :30:28.like it was designed to? The wide-ranging Housing
:30:29. > :30:30.and Planning Bill contains the Government's flagship
:30:31. > :30:32.Right to Buy scheme. The Government says it will allow
:30:33. > :30:36.1.3 million housing association tenants to buy their own home,
:30:37. > :30:41.but opponents argue that it is uncosted and that there is no
:30:42. > :30:43.guarantee the social housing stock The bill also contains plans
:30:44. > :30:48.to build new starter homes, worth up to ?450,000 in London,
:30:49. > :30:51.and ?250,000 in the rest of the country, leading
:30:52. > :30:54.to criticisms that they still won't But the Lords have watered down
:30:55. > :31:02.swathes of the bill, defying the Government a massive 13
:31:03. > :31:05.times on issues ranging from the thresholds for Pay to Stay,
:31:06. > :31:08.when council tenants can be charged higher rents once their income
:31:09. > :31:10.reaches a certain level, to environmental regulations
:31:11. > :31:18.on new developments. I'm joined now from outside
:31:19. > :31:20.parliament by Eileen Short of the group Defend Council Housing,
:31:21. > :31:27.they are holding Eileen, welcome to the programme.
:31:28. > :31:37.What is your issue with the government's policy? It's pouring
:31:38. > :31:39.petrol fire of what is already a pretty terrible housing situation.
:31:40. > :31:44.In the name of encouraging people to buy actually what they are doing is
:31:45. > :31:51.selling off the precious homes we've got that people can afford and
:31:52. > :31:58.pushing up rents and putting more of us into unregulated private renting.
:31:59. > :32:01.If they replaced the social housing stock, would you still have a
:32:02. > :32:07.problem with it? There's 2-macro things.
:32:08. > :32:19.-- there's two things. One is that they promised in the last few years
:32:20. > :32:23.that every home sold under Right to Buy would be replaced but it wasn't,
:32:24. > :32:28.they replaced about one in ten, so why would we believe them? Secondly,
:32:29. > :32:32.in order to finance selling off housing association homes, they are
:32:33. > :32:38.going to sell off the most valuable council homes. This is like a double
:32:39. > :32:42.whammy and those homes are in the places that people and communities
:32:43. > :32:50.need to live and they can't be replaced, in the heart of East
:32:51. > :32:53.London or where I live, in Bethnal Green. Thank you and thank you for
:32:54. > :32:55.battling against that background noise, whatever it is. We heard you,
:32:56. > :33:00.thank you. Joining me now is the Shadow Housing
:33:01. > :33:06.Minister John Healey, We've spoken about this before but
:33:07. > :33:11.there have been many more defeats since we spoke about it last, Chris.
:33:12. > :33:15.It must be time for the Government to rethink? It's very disappointing
:33:16. > :33:20.that the unelected House of Lords have tried to tamper with things
:33:21. > :33:24.that were in the party's manifesto. The Right to Buy was in the
:33:25. > :33:28.manifesto. The government is right to press on and get those things in
:33:29. > :33:32.acted. The principle was in the manifesto but not some of the detail
:33:33. > :33:35.which has now come out and that is what the House of Lords is doing,
:33:36. > :33:45.doing its job and scrutinising what they would call bad legislation.
:33:46. > :33:48.Some of these things are wrecking... They are trying to undermine the
:33:49. > :33:51.whole policy. The point of the policies to help young people in
:33:52. > :33:56.their 20s and 30s get onto the housing ladder and is some of these
:33:57. > :34:02.Amendment had been designed to reckon that. Others, something like
:34:03. > :34:06.two thirds or even three quarters of the Lords amendments have been
:34:07. > :34:09.accepted, but where those amendments are designed to undermine or
:34:10. > :34:15.frustrate what was in the manifesto, helping people onto the housing
:34:16. > :34:18.ladder, we will stand firm and stick to our guns. Do you object to the
:34:19. > :34:24.principle of housing association tenants being able to own their own
:34:25. > :34:30.homes? We've opposed the succession of the Right to Buy for council
:34:31. > :34:35.tenants, because it will go to overseas investments and buy to let
:34:36. > :34:39.landlords. Do you know that? I thought the forced sale, the funds
:34:40. > :34:42.would go to actually fund this... What this legislation is doing is
:34:43. > :34:46.forcing councils to sell the best of their homes when they become vacant
:34:47. > :34:50.to whoever they can sell them to in order to pay the money to George
:34:51. > :34:53.Osborne to fund the discount for the Right to Buy for the housing
:34:54. > :34:59.association tenants. That's why quite obviously this is going to
:35:00. > :35:05.lead to a huge loss for rental homes right across the country. The other
:35:06. > :35:09.problem with this is these so-called starter homes are going to leave
:35:10. > :35:13.many wannabe first-time buyers completely unable to afford the sort
:35:14. > :35:17.of costs that would be involved. We will come onto starter homes in just
:35:18. > :35:21.a moment but just answer the claim that the money that will come from
:35:22. > :35:25.those council homes will not go into replacing council stock, it will go
:35:26. > :35:31.into the Treasury's pockets? It's not completely true. It's a bit
:35:32. > :35:36.true? In London there will be a two for one replacement, thanks to Zac
:35:37. > :35:39.Goldsmith, every house sold in London there will be two replacement
:35:40. > :35:47.and every house sold outside London there will be a 141 placement. The
:35:48. > :35:51.legislation allows ministers to do a council levy... It will be cash
:35:52. > :35:55.going straight to George Osborne, an annual levy on councils to pay for
:35:56. > :36:02.the discount on housing association, so it is a cash grab making councils
:36:03. > :36:05.and those who need these homes pay the costs of a policy that the
:36:06. > :36:09.government itself should be paying for. But it also says that there
:36:10. > :36:15.must be a two-for-one replacement in London and a one for replacement
:36:16. > :36:19.outside. Does it matter as long as there is a replacement? It would
:36:20. > :36:22.matter a lot as long as this were a like-for-like replacement. But the
:36:23. > :36:25.replacement allows the rented council home or housing association
:36:26. > :36:31.home in London to be replaced by one of these so-called new, affordable
:36:32. > :36:35.homes that are for sale for up to ?450,000. You have to be honest in
:36:36. > :36:38.terms of what is actually being replaced. If a local authority is
:36:39. > :36:42.selling a four-bedroom council house and the money from that they'll is
:36:43. > :36:49.going to the Treasury, will there be another house of that size or two if
:36:50. > :36:52.it is in London, built in the same part of that authority? Not
:36:53. > :36:57.necessarily in the same part, but within London. I'll explain why.
:36:58. > :37:01.London is a big place. Take for examples Camden Council, I used to
:37:02. > :37:06.be a councillor for them many years ago. They have ?1 million loss
:37:07. > :37:09.Bloomsbury apartments, one of which Frank Dobson lives in, it's
:37:10. > :37:15.ridiculous that the local authority is providing supposedly social
:37:16. > :37:19.housing worth 1.5 mini and pounds is a unit to Frank Dobson, it makes
:37:20. > :37:25.sense to sell that unit and build two in its place. It just makes
:37:26. > :37:28.sense. On the starter homes scheme, this is about helping young people
:37:29. > :37:30.get onto the housing ladder, which a lot of them would like to do and
:37:31. > :37:34.it's becoming more and more difficult, rather than as many
:37:35. > :37:38.people see it, throwing money down the drain for high rent. It's not
:37:39. > :37:43.just becoming more difficult, it's becoming almost impossible for young
:37:44. > :37:46.people. A third of a million fewer people under 35 now own their own
:37:47. > :37:51.home than when David Cameron became Prime Minister. It is a good idea
:37:52. > :37:55.these starter homes but the way the government is doing it simply means
:37:56. > :38:01.it's out of the reach of many young people. In Chris's constituency of
:38:02. > :38:06.Croydon, even with this huge discount and subsidy, you're still
:38:07. > :38:14.going to need a deposit of 61,000, an annual salary of 61,000, and the
:38:15. > :38:23.average salary of someone in Croydon is 30 1000. To buy one of the
:38:24. > :38:28.starter homes in London you would need a deposit of ?98,000 and an
:38:29. > :38:31.average salary of ?78,000. If those figures were true they would be eye
:38:32. > :38:37.watering but they are not. I'm Croydon South MP and the average
:38:38. > :38:42.flat in Croydon is ?240,000 privately. Knock off the discount
:38:43. > :38:51.and that is ?190,000. You can get a 95% mortgage with help to buy, so
:38:52. > :38:54.that is a deposit of ?10,000. I think that is within the reach of
:38:55. > :39:01.most people, if they buy together as a couple as most do. I think two
:39:02. > :39:04.people earning ?26,000 with a ?10,000 deposit is a big step
:39:05. > :39:08.forward, not perfect and doesn't solve everything but it's a huge
:39:09. > :39:11.step forward and I would hope that my labour opposite numbers this
:39:12. > :39:15.afternoon support this measure to help young people onto the housing
:39:16. > :39:18.ladder. John, I'm going to have to ask you about what's going on in the
:39:19. > :39:21.Labour Party at the moment because you probably heard the reports on
:39:22. > :39:25.our programme, but reports that some members of the shadow coming at
:39:26. > :39:29.preparing to stand down after the way the leadership has dealt with
:39:30. > :39:34.anti-Semitism. Are you one of them? I'm not, and I doubt whether that is
:39:35. > :39:38.the case. For my money, what all of us need to be doing is fighting the
:39:39. > :39:41.elections this week, fighting the referendum next month and trying to
:39:42. > :39:45.win back the hearing and support from the millions of people that
:39:46. > :39:50.lost us and left us at the last election. Do you think you will make
:39:51. > :39:53.games? As far as my colleagues around the Shadow Cabinet table,
:39:54. > :39:58.that's what we're trying to do. We've heard reports that MPs are
:39:59. > :40:01.rallying around Margaret Hodge as a possible stalking horse in a
:40:02. > :40:04.leadership challenge to Jeremy Corbyn, have you heard about that?
:40:05. > :40:12.19 years in opposition and in government, I've lost count of the
:40:13. > :40:16.number of stalking horses and Kuchar opposition leaders I've come across.
:40:17. > :40:19.This is part of what turns people off politics, when the whispers in
:40:20. > :40:22.the Westminster world really make politicians seem like we're more
:40:23. > :40:27.concerned with our own problems rather than the difficulties that
:40:28. > :40:30.people face day-to-day. But if Labour perform badly on Thursday,
:40:31. > :40:35.does Jeremy Corbyn have any choice but to go? Of course he does. He's
:40:36. > :40:39.elected with a very strong mandate within the delayed a party. These
:40:40. > :40:44.elections on Thursday are going to be tough. -- within the Labour
:40:45. > :40:48.Party. It's always ebb and flow within the political cycle. There
:40:49. > :40:52.hasn't been the leader of an opposition in recent times who's
:40:53. > :40:56.actually lost seats in the first year at council elections. Any
:40:57. > :41:01.political analyst will tell you most of these seats were elected four
:41:02. > :41:04.years ago in 2012, which was a high water mark. This sounds like you're
:41:05. > :41:10.softening people up for losses in labour. Predictions are a mug's game
:41:11. > :41:14.but I've been visiting councils right across the country from
:41:15. > :41:17.Stevenage to live and can come to Plymouth, to Exeter, and we are
:41:18. > :41:22.fighting for every vote. -- from Stevenage to Plymouth. My concern is
:41:23. > :41:26.that we still have good Labour councils like those able to show
:41:27. > :41:30.people what a difference a Labour MP can make. Corbyn has predicted this
:41:31. > :41:36.morning that he will make games, is he a mug? Corbyn has said this
:41:37. > :41:43.morning we're fighting for every vote. We're coming to come onto
:41:44. > :41:45.election prospects in a moment but thank you very much.
:41:46. > :41:47.Are you ready for Super Thursday, UK style?
:41:48. > :41:50.Well, there are elections right across the UK this week -
:41:51. > :41:52.not least in Wales where, as Ellie reports, the parties
:41:53. > :41:55.are fighting for control of the Welsh Assembly.
:41:56. > :42:00.Welcome to sunny Cardiff. We all know there are Welsh assembly
:42:01. > :42:04.elections later this week and I'm here to talk to all the main parties
:42:05. > :42:08.about what they're promising the voters. The trouble is, they're all
:42:09. > :42:11.out making those promises on the campaign Trail, so I'm going to have
:42:12. > :42:20.to go to them. First stop, well, more in between
:42:21. > :42:25.stops, the current Labour First Minister Carmen Jones and as we
:42:26. > :42:29.speak we pass the steelworks at Port Talbot, a symbol of crisis that has
:42:30. > :42:35.overshadowed this campaign. It's an issue that is raised on doorsteps
:42:36. > :42:44.even in areas where steel is not the main. We've been working with the
:42:45. > :42:47.government... What people want to see is governments and different
:42:48. > :42:54.parties working together to save those jobs and that's exactly what
:42:55. > :42:59.we've done. As the biggest party, Labour faces a war on all fronts.
:43:00. > :43:03.Plaid Cymru are keen to watch Ray this campaign as a two horse race.
:43:04. > :43:07.Labour are the establishment party here in Wales. They've been leading
:43:08. > :43:10.the Welsh government since devolution was born. We've just
:43:11. > :43:14.bumped along at the bottom of so many different league tables in
:43:15. > :43:18.terms of the health outcomes, education, the economy. They've had
:43:19. > :43:22.their chance to put these problems right and they've failed. Many
:43:23. > :43:26.people now recognise that it's time we had change and I'm arguing that
:43:27. > :43:31.Plaid Cymru is the change Wales needs. Last time round, the
:43:32. > :43:35.Conservatives were the second biggest party in the semi but polls
:43:36. > :43:40.suggest that this time there is a real threat they could be beaten
:43:41. > :43:43.into third. Their leader jetted into explained why he doesn't agree.
:43:44. > :43:48.After 17 years of Labour in government, what have we got? The
:43:49. > :43:51.lowest take-home wages of anywhere in the United Kingdom, a health
:43:52. > :43:55.service that has seen NHS waiting times double and education standards
:43:56. > :43:58.that have been slipping. It's not because Welsh people desire any less
:43:59. > :44:02.than anywhere else in the UK, but it's through poor political
:44:03. > :44:07.leadership. It's been one party propped up by two others here in
:44:08. > :44:10.government and we want to change that. If it's starting to feel like
:44:11. > :44:15.Labour against everyone else, it probably is. In the rest of the UK
:44:16. > :44:18.as in Wales, the Lib Dem vote collapsed in the last election and
:44:19. > :44:22.things are hardly looking more positive this time round. Five years
:44:23. > :44:26.ago people predicted we would be wiped out but we returned as a
:44:27. > :44:28.strong group and that group over the last five years has created
:44:29. > :44:33.thousands of apprenticeships. We've been able to put ?260 million extra
:44:34. > :44:38.into our schools, we've been able to change the law on nurse staffing
:44:39. > :44:41.levels and if we can do that with just five assembly members over the
:44:42. > :44:46.last five years, imagine what we could do with more, and that is what
:44:47. > :44:49.we are campaigning. Like the great unknown here is Ukip. They are
:44:50. > :44:57.expected to make a breakthrough and take a seat. At their campaign has
:44:58. > :45:00.been marred by rumblings about candidates being parachuted into
:45:01. > :45:04.Wales. They say any publicity is good publicity but the reality is,
:45:05. > :45:07.as a party it's good to have people with different views who feel
:45:08. > :45:12.passionately about our politics and that's what we've got. We've now
:45:13. > :45:17.been able to channel that passion into winning seats here and in the
:45:18. > :45:21.Welsh assembly. There is little time left for much more campaigning. What
:45:22. > :45:26.this place looks like on the inside will be decided on Thursday.
:45:27. > :45:38.You predicted correctly. I will now as confetti cut Haas predictions.
:45:39. > :45:45.The mug's game. Do you still expect them to win nine seats? That is what
:45:46. > :45:51.Ukip were predicting, nine seats, but you will not put a number on it?
:45:52. > :45:55.I think we will win five seats, we may do better than that. We have
:45:56. > :46:01.never won a seat in the Assembly before. There will be a breakthrough
:46:02. > :46:05.in Wales, and not just Wales. I think people are not quite noticing,
:46:06. > :46:10.but in the opinion polls, last Thursday one YouGov poll has Ukip at
:46:11. > :46:15.its highest ever national rating, we not doing badly. But it is about
:46:16. > :46:19.translating into seat. Anything less than five in Wales will be a
:46:20. > :46:24.disappointment? I think we will win five, we may do better, let's see.
:46:25. > :46:28.Looking at what will happen out there in England, will it be a case
:46:29. > :46:33.of coming second and third, maybe a high second in a lot of cases, but
:46:34. > :46:40.you will not make the games in England? I think we will win seats
:46:41. > :46:45.in the London assembly. I think we will win a seat or two in Stormont
:46:46. > :46:51.in Northern Ireland. No other party will do that, the Tories will not do
:46:52. > :46:56.it, Labour are not standing. In Scotland, it is 50/ 50. With English
:46:57. > :47:01.local elections, I think we will make some gains, how many, I do not
:47:02. > :47:07.know, but we will make some. But isn't how well you could do in
:47:08. > :47:12.England a benchmark? Of course. If you don't make any seats you can
:47:13. > :47:16.point to Wales and Stormont... To try to guess how many games we will
:47:17. > :47:23.make in the English elections is virtually impossible. -- how many
:47:24. > :47:27.gains. I think we will become the biggest party on Sarah Council, I
:47:28. > :47:32.think we have a chance of becoming the biggest party on the council in
:47:33. > :47:36.Rotherham. We already control finer District Council. There are 500
:47:37. > :47:41.local Ukip councillors, local base is growing. The people we have had
:47:42. > :47:46.elected have behaved, on the whole, pretty well and been very diligent
:47:47. > :47:53.and worked hard. Yes, we will improve. But in Thanet, in areas you
:47:54. > :47:57.won, there have been split in the party and people not agreeing
:47:58. > :48:03.amongst themselves. That has taken away... We have ferries bringing
:48:04. > :48:08.cars back to Ramsgate for the first time in ten years, things are going
:48:09. > :48:11.well. So when you say you are rolling up your sleeves, working
:48:12. > :48:17.hard on serving local people, have you got a good enough record to show
:48:18. > :48:22.that? Yes, Thanet is proving it. After six months, it was pretty
:48:23. > :48:28.awful. What party does not go from that number to that number and have
:48:29. > :48:33.robins? It always happens. I suppose people say that if you cannot gain
:48:34. > :48:36.council seats when other populist and anti-EU parties are gaining
:48:37. > :48:42.ground, quite significant ground across Europe, there must be serious
:48:43. > :48:47.doubts about the long-term political competitiveness of Ukip? YouGov last
:48:48. > :48:52.Thursday had as at the highest opinion poll ever, that is for a
:48:53. > :48:55.party that won the European elections in 2014. We are at the
:48:56. > :48:59.highest we have ever been as a party, what more can I do? Or those
:49:00. > :49:07.you did not get the official campaign designation. -- you did not
:49:08. > :49:10.get the official campaign designation. Is there a danger that
:49:11. > :49:16.people just think you have served your purpose, this turkey is voting
:49:17. > :49:20.for Christmas, we could be out? Batted in muscles. Ukip has
:49:21. > :49:23.established itself as a party that fights. We believe in
:49:24. > :49:28.self-government but we have also made big calls on things like
:49:29. > :49:31.immigration, we have been proven right. Whatever happens in this
:49:32. > :49:37.referendum, if there is a narrow win... How significant is the win
:49:38. > :49:49.have to be before people start saying it will be a neverendum? If
:49:50. > :49:53.the Remain campaign wins, which I do not think they will, given the
:49:54. > :49:59.passion on the Leave side, compared to them, if the Remain side wins, I
:50:00. > :50:04.suspect that could be large chunks of the Labour Party Conservative
:50:05. > :50:07.Party who would be irreconcilable to the positions taken by their
:50:08. > :50:12.leaderships. So there will still be a Ukip after the referendum,
:50:13. > :50:15.whatever happens? I think it could be bigger than now. If we lost the
:50:16. > :50:21.referendum it could be very much bigger, if we won the referendum, we
:50:22. > :50:24.would need to be there to make sure that the will of the people was
:50:25. > :50:25.carried out. But then the public would ask, what else, they would
:50:26. > :50:30.need to see more than they have. So much for Ukip -
:50:31. > :50:32.what about the Lib Dems' prospects Let's speak to one
:50:33. > :50:41.of their MPs, Tom Brake. Welcome. Wattel success look like
:50:42. > :50:47.for the Lib Dems? Again, I will not predict how many we might win...
:50:48. > :50:53.Nigel Farage has actually predicted. We see this as being, I suppose, the
:50:54. > :50:59.beginning of a recovery. Clearly, we had a bad five years in coalition.
:51:00. > :51:04.Now we are in a position where in recent by-elections, for example,
:51:05. > :51:10.supporters, is 7%. If you look at places like Sheffield, Newcastle,
:51:11. > :51:15.Manchester, Portsmouth, I think we are on track to make some gains. Or
:51:16. > :51:21.you will say that the Lib Dems will make gains in these elections? I
:51:22. > :51:27.think that is the case, but I will not put a number on them. This is
:51:28. > :51:33.the first test of the post coalition Lib Dems, and Tim Farron's
:51:34. > :51:38.leadership. You might argue that one gain is a recovery from such a low
:51:39. > :51:42.bar. They might argue that, what is important is that people are
:51:43. > :51:47.listening to the Lib Dems. There is no real evidence of that?
:51:48. > :51:53.By-elections are the only real test we have had, we are doing very well
:51:54. > :51:58.on those. We also have a political landscape in which the Labour Party
:51:59. > :52:03.is in a very bad state and the Conservative Party that people see
:52:04. > :52:07.on television on a daily basis, Cabinet ministers attacking each
:52:08. > :52:12.other over the issue of whether we should Remain or Leave the EU, in
:52:13. > :52:16.contrast, the Lib Dems are fighting the council elections in a united
:52:17. > :52:21.way, we are fighting on the core issues that matter to local people.
:52:22. > :52:25.We are very strong community campaigners, I think that will stand
:52:26. > :52:29.us in good stead on Thursday. If you hold the balance of power in the
:52:30. > :52:34.Welsh Assembly, would you be prepared to prop up the Labour
:52:35. > :52:38.government back? I will not speak on behalf of Kirsty Williams, they can
:52:39. > :52:41.make those decisions themselves. Are you advising voters in the London
:52:42. > :52:47.mayoral election where they should put their second preference? We
:52:48. > :52:51.advise them to support Caroline Pidgeon, who has definitely come out
:52:52. > :52:54.on top in a televised debate, she has eight years of the London
:52:55. > :53:00.Assembly Member, she knows her stuff in relation to transport and
:53:01. > :53:05.policing. Second preferences, which party would be closer to her
:53:06. > :53:11.objectives? I will leave people to make up their own minds. Who do you
:53:12. > :53:15.think you're closer to at the moment, the Conservatives or Labour?
:53:16. > :53:23.I will not play that game. In relation to the London mayoral
:53:24. > :53:26.elections, I think they want a team of people on the London Assembly who
:53:27. > :53:30.will punch above their weight, the Liberal Democrats have done that, I
:53:31. > :53:34.want is to continue to do that in larger numbers than at present. We
:53:35. > :53:35.will see what happens by Friday, thank you.
:53:36. > :53:38.Thousands of year two pupils in England are boycotting school
:53:39. > :53:40.today, possibly with the help of their parents.
:53:41. > :53:43.The protest is over the SATs test and a national curriculum which,
:53:44. > :53:45.according to the campaign, has turned schools into
:53:46. > :53:52.The Government is urging parents not to take part in the boycott.
:53:53. > :54:00.It is the wrong way to discuss political issues. We shouldn't be
:54:01. > :54:04.bringing politics into the's education. Even missing a degs
:54:05. > :54:09.school can be damaging, not just to the child who does not attend but
:54:10. > :54:13.the other children who have to go through a catch-up lesson to make up
:54:14. > :54:18.for the child who did not attend. I would ask parents considering this
:54:19. > :54:19.action, please don't do so, it will damage your child's's education, and
:54:20. > :54:23.that of others in their class. Well, Ellie is with some
:54:24. > :54:26.parents and children - who are not at school -
:54:27. > :54:28.in South East London. Ellie, what's happening
:54:29. > :54:34.where you are? It is a nice enough day!
:54:35. > :54:39.They picked a lovely day for it. Here where we are we have painting
:54:40. > :54:44.going on, colouring, I think we even have some jewellery making. We have
:54:45. > :54:48.children and parents from three schools in this area who are making
:54:49. > :54:54.their voices heard today, making their points. Steve Roses one of
:54:55. > :54:58.them, why are you here? Basically because, like a lot of parents, I
:54:59. > :55:02.have lost trust in what the Government is doing in education, so
:55:03. > :55:08.we are here to say that we are on the side of teachers, academics and
:55:09. > :55:12.children, who do not really like what is going on. The Schools
:55:13. > :55:16.Minister said you should not bring children into politics, leave them
:55:17. > :55:21.out of it. They should be at school, it is a Tuesday? I think children
:55:22. > :55:24.are in politics already, they are being made to Leinster that the
:55:25. > :55:28.behest of the Government that says we have to do this, so doing nothing
:55:29. > :55:33.is putting them in politics, speaking out is equally political.
:55:34. > :55:37.But our children are being made to do test about assessing schools, not
:55:38. > :55:42.what is good for them. I do not have a problem with my children being
:55:43. > :55:46.political. The concern is that this puts children through unnecessary
:55:47. > :55:50.stress, that at this age do they get stressed about this sort of thing? I
:55:51. > :55:56.think a lot of it does not just come from the parents but the teachers,
:55:57. > :55:59.they are under pressure to teachers curriculum, a very narrow
:56:00. > :56:03.curriculum. Because they are assessed on it, as are their
:56:04. > :56:06.schools. So our children are being made to do this so that the
:56:07. > :56:12.Government has convenient data with which to assess children, leading
:56:13. > :56:16.into a more worrying agenda about academisation, forced academisation,
:56:17. > :56:20.lack of parent representation, lots of things adding up to a sinister
:56:21. > :56:25.picture of Government plans for education, which seem to be more
:56:26. > :56:30.about business than what is good for children. Millie, you are enjoying
:56:31. > :56:34.the day off? Why are you here? Because I do not want to be learning
:56:35. > :56:39.co-coordinating subordinating multicore sentences. They are quite
:56:40. > :56:45.dull. It is a good excuse to sit in the sun on a Tuesday? Very good. We
:56:46. > :56:49.have about 60 people here, I understand there are lots of similar
:56:50. > :56:53.protests to run the country. What next. Will this make any difference?
:56:54. > :56:57.I think it makes a difference because we are talking about it on
:56:58. > :57:01.national television, it is being talked about in a lot of places
:57:02. > :57:04.around the media, lots of people are questioning what is happening. I
:57:05. > :57:08.think that is important. Teachers and everyone else have been saying
:57:09. > :57:13.this, parents are saying this, we need to look at this, it is not
:57:14. > :57:16.doing our children any good. A narrow curriculum, a testing regime,
:57:17. > :57:22.forced academisation, none of that is doing any good. We had to leave
:57:23. > :57:29.it there. Thousands of people doing similar things the country. Back to
:57:30. > :57:32.you, Jo. I was going to put you through Koke award in 18
:57:33. > :57:37.subordinating clauses, whatever they are. Do you have sympathy for the
:57:38. > :57:40.parents? Non-, I have never had a problem with my children being
:57:41. > :57:44.tested. There is nothing wrong, every few years, with children being
:57:45. > :57:49.tested. Have you seen the sort of questions they were asking? . This
:57:50. > :57:56.particular one. I have several kids, I have seen them doing SATs test,
:57:57. > :58:01.some have done 11 plus, GCSEs, A-levels, deg. I have no problem.
:58:02. > :58:06.There are a series of tests in real life, in school we should not avoid
:58:07. > :58:10.them. But what is wrong with teacher assessment at seven? It depends how
:58:11. > :58:14.you approach the test. Clearly if they are being shouted at for a week
:58:15. > :58:17.that if you don't do well in this you will be written off as a
:58:18. > :58:20.failure, but I don't think that is the way children are taught when
:58:21. > :58:26.they are seven years old, at least I hope they are not. Do you think
:58:27. > :58:30.these protests will have an effect on Government policy? I don't think
:58:31. > :58:35.so. I can tell. Ellie was in that part of the sun was shining, is this
:58:36. > :58:39.happening on a big scale across the country? I am not sure. -- in that
:58:40. > :58:45.park, and the sun was shining. If that girl is seven, if that
:58:46. > :58:51.wasn't... I was impressed that she had learned her lines. I think the
:58:52. > :58:55.Government will stick to its guns. I will have to say stop, that is all
:58:56. > :59:01.for today. Thank you for all our guests, and particularly due for
:59:02. > :59:02.being guest of the day. The one o'clock News is