:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:43.Nigel Farage raises the prospect of a second EU referendum
:00:44. > :00:47.if there's a close result on June 23rd -
:00:48. > :00:50.Are saying there would be resentment from Conservatives that
:00:51. > :00:53.David Cameron had not been playing fairly.
:00:54. > :00:56.David Cameron launches another attack on Leave campaigners -
:00:57. > :00:58.accusing them of being vague about the economic impact
:00:59. > :01:02.We'll have all the latest from the referendum campaign.
:01:03. > :01:06.The Queen travels to Westminster tomorrow to officially open
:01:07. > :01:11.and outline the government's legislative plans.
:01:12. > :01:16.And a new play celebrates the political life of
:01:17. > :01:18.Screaming Lord Sutch - the founder and leader
:01:19. > :01:30.We'll talk to the playwright and the party's current leader.
:01:31. > :01:35.and with us for the whole of the programme today
:01:36. > :01:37.the former leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard.
:01:38. > :01:43.Let's kick off with Theresa May's speech
:01:44. > :01:45.to the Police Federation this morning.
:01:46. > :01:47.In the past the Home Secretary has had a rocky relationship
:01:48. > :01:51.with the organisation that represents rank-and file officers
:01:52. > :01:54.after being booed in 2012 and last year accusing them
:01:55. > :02:03.and commended the police for "doing a fantastic job"
:02:04. > :02:20.six years ago, I stood on this platform and address due for the
:02:21. > :02:24.first time. On each occasion since then, I've talked about the
:02:25. > :02:29.wide-ranging programme of reform I've put in place since becoming
:02:30. > :02:34.Home Secretary. A programme which, let's face it, you haven't always
:02:35. > :02:40.agreed with and at times have resisted. But, six years on, British
:02:41. > :02:45.policing has changed substantially for the better. We've overhauled
:02:46. > :02:48.inadequate institutions and systems, reduced excessive bureaucracy and
:02:49. > :02:51.inadequate institutions and systems, replaced a centralised model of
:02:52. > :02:51.inadequate institutions and systems, governance with democratic
:02:52. > :02:59.accountability. That sounded governance with democratic
:03:00. > :03:04.and calm. What happened to the usual confrontation? The Home Secretary
:03:05. > :03:09.was right to talk about the progress that's been made over the last six
:03:10. > :03:19.years. She and they have both done an extremely good job. As the police
:03:20. > :03:24.forced changed since she became Home Secretary? She has been there a long
:03:25. > :03:30.time. She has. And I think it has changed for the better. The
:03:31. > :03:31.reputation of the police has been dented by Hillsborough, for example.
:03:32. > :03:35.That's true, and it dented by Hillsborough, for example.
:03:36. > :03:39.it is something that has to be addressed and is being addressed
:03:40. > :03:41.either affirms the Home Secretary to about. Although the Police
:03:42. > :03:47.Federation have talked about about. Although the Police
:03:48. > :03:55.fact that Hillsborough doesn't make for good legislation. Do they have
:03:56. > :03:56.fact that Hillsborough doesn't make point? It depends on what they are
:03:57. > :04:00.talking about and what legislation you have in mind. I have
:04:01. > :04:00.talking about and what legislation in the Home Secretary and don't
:04:01. > :04:03.think she in the Home Secretary and don't
:04:04. > :04:10.legislation that isn't extremely well considered. We will have to see
:04:11. > :04:14.what she has. Plans like pensions being stripped from certain
:04:15. > :04:19.officers. Do you think these are things that should be strengthened
:04:20. > :04:22.if police are found to have behaved badly? I'm going to wait and see
:04:23. > :04:28.what the Home Secretary comes up with and I will give you my view
:04:29. > :04:32.them. After the event. The Police Federation of England and Wales
:04:33. > :04:37.claimed a national shortage of armed police leaves Britain vulnerable to
:04:38. > :04:45.terror attacks. Do use the pies with them? Of course. It is a serious
:04:46. > :04:53.situation and I'm sure the Home Secretary will take it seriously. --
:04:54. > :05:01.do you sympathise? In the time when the terror alert for, for example,
:05:02. > :05:06.Irish Republican has been strengthened, does it make it a bad
:05:07. > :05:13.time for that? She needs to look at some of the guidance which exists
:05:14. > :05:20.which means that being a firearms officer is a perilous job to half
:05:21. > :05:24.because of the outcry that often occurs when firearms have to be
:05:25. > :05:29.used, sometimes justifiably but not always. I don't think it is just a
:05:30. > :05:35.question of money. If we wanted more armed officers, there would have to
:05:36. > :05:39.be more money spent. No. It is a question of how many police officers
:05:40. > :05:42.want to become the offices that have the special training that enables
:05:43. > :05:46.them to become armed officers. That is part of the problem. We will
:05:47. > :05:49.leave it there. The spymasters at GCHQ
:05:50. > :05:54.in Cheltenham are on a mission to open up to the public,
:05:55. > :05:57.so our question for today is, what have they done to try
:05:58. > :05:59.to improve their image? b) Enter Robert Hannigan,
:06:00. > :06:03.the Director of GCHQ, as a contestent
:06:04. > :06:05.on Strictly Come Dancing as their new director
:06:06. > :06:10.of communications. At the end of the show, Michael
:06:11. > :06:14.will give us the correct answer. It's been a busy morning
:06:15. > :06:16.on the referendum campaign trail - with both sides taking
:06:17. > :06:20.potshots at each other. First up, Nigel Farage -
:06:21. > :06:24.who told BBC Breakfast he thought there might be calls for a second
:06:25. > :06:27.referendum if the result puts Remain I think we are going win
:06:28. > :06:31.this referendum. Because there's far more passion
:06:32. > :06:35.on the Leave side of the argument. Leave voters are much more likely,
:06:36. > :06:38.on June 23rd, to go down to the local
:06:39. > :06:40.primary school and vote. If we were to lose, narrowly,
:06:41. > :06:46.which I don't believe we will, if we were, then what I can see
:06:47. > :06:49.is a large section, particularly in the Conservative Party,
:06:50. > :06:52.who feel the Prime Minister is not playing fair,
:06:53. > :06:54.that the Remain side are using way more money
:06:55. > :06:57.than the Leave side and there would be, you know,
:06:58. > :07:02.a resentment that would build up if that
:07:03. > :07:04.was to be the result. Having said that, I still think
:07:05. > :07:08.Leave is going to win. Next came the Shadow
:07:09. > :07:12.Chancellor John McDonnell, whose speech had been billed
:07:13. > :07:14.as the progressive case He defended immigration into the UK
:07:15. > :07:19.and accused Brexit campaigners of It's the Tories who enacted a
:07:20. > :07:28.top-down reorganisation of our NHS, It's the Tories cuts
:07:29. > :07:37.to our schools budgets, It's not the fault of
:07:38. > :07:46.Polish fruit pickers or Latvian care workers that
:07:47. > :07:49.house-building is at its lowest in It's the Tory failure
:07:50. > :07:52.to build more homes. We don't blame the people
:07:53. > :07:54.who work in our public services and make
:07:55. > :07:57.such a valuable contribution to our economy and society for the state
:07:58. > :07:59.of those public services and we won't give an inch
:08:00. > :08:01.to the anti-migrant rubbish of some of those
:08:02. > :08:03.campaigning for Brexit. And in the last hour
:08:04. > :08:06.the Prime Minister has also been making a set-piece speech -
:08:07. > :08:09.arguing that a vote to leave the EU We heard it from the Bank
:08:10. > :08:13.of England, from the OECD, from the IMF, the Treasury,
:08:14. > :08:15.from the Office for Budget Responsibility
:08:16. > :08:18.and many others besides. I think, when very respected
:08:19. > :08:22.organisations are saying, as clearly as they are,
:08:23. > :08:24.that output would be lower, growth would be less,
:08:25. > :08:30.unemployment would be higher, prices would be higher, we would see
:08:31. > :08:35.a hit to living standards, that there is a very clear consensus
:08:36. > :08:39.that leaving the EU would have not just a short-term affect
:08:40. > :08:47.on confidence and investment and growth, but actually would
:08:48. > :08:50.have a longer-term affect as well. We've been joined by the leader
:08:51. > :08:53.of the Liberal Democrats Tim Farron. We'll talk about this morning's
:08:54. > :08:55.interventions in a moment, but first let's discuss the front
:08:56. > :08:58.page of this morning's Daily Mail whose headline is "Exposed -
:08:59. > :09:12.Cameron's EU Sham". Suggesting that David Cameron was
:09:13. > :09:16.planning his campaign to remain in the EU even before he'd signed off
:09:17. > :09:21.on his EU reform deal. Boris Johnson was asked about this as he left
:09:22. > :09:27.number ten after attending the political Cabinet meeting where he
:09:28. > :09:32.compared the stitch up to like the buyer tapestry, in typically
:09:33. > :09:35.colourful language. David Cameron was choreographic elements of the
:09:36. > :09:42.remain campaign when he was still negotiating with each new leaders,
:09:43. > :09:48.so the story goes. So what? I don't know if there is any truth in the
:09:49. > :09:52.story. The important thing that the renegotiation that the Prime
:09:53. > :09:57.Minister wanted to achieve, fundamental and far-reaching reform
:09:58. > :10:02.of the EU didn't happen. It's hardly mentioned now in the debate. No one
:10:03. > :10:05.pretends that the reforms that he obtained in the renegotiation where
:10:06. > :10:11.anything like what he wanted, anything like what he originally set
:10:12. > :10:16.out to. Is that because you feel he was already committed to remain and
:10:17. > :10:22.never thought about leaving? I don't know what was in his innermost
:10:23. > :10:26.thoughts. He genuinely set out to achieve far-reaching reform. It's
:10:27. > :10:29.not his fault he didn't achieve it. It is the blindness of European
:10:30. > :10:34.leaders who didn't recognise the need for reform. But the story
:10:35. > :10:41.claims that he was not out to get the best deal, he was already
:10:42. > :10:46.setting out his campaign to remain. He was planning on that basis. That
:10:47. > :10:50.was what the renegotiation was based on. I think he tried to get the
:10:51. > :10:55.fundamental and far-reaching reform he wanted but he failed. So this
:10:56. > :11:00.idea of being a stitch up isn't true? I don't want to get involved
:11:01. > :11:04.in that argument. Objectively, what we can all do is look at the results
:11:05. > :11:10.of the re-negotiation and, frankly, they didn't amount to very much. In
:11:11. > :11:21.terms of the claims that it is a stitch up, it does feed the idea,
:11:22. > :11:28.Tim Farren, that you and the others are lining up the establishment to
:11:29. > :11:34.browbeat the public into remaining. I think this is a nonstory.
:11:35. > :11:38.Britain's best interests are in remaining in the European Union. The
:11:39. > :11:47.fact that businesses large and small are lining up saying that we would
:11:48. > :11:51.be foolish to leave the European Union, a massive risk to our economy
:11:52. > :11:55.would have been the case before the re-negotiation and clearly is now.
:11:56. > :12:00.It is not browbeating anyone. If you're going to make the biggest
:12:01. > :12:04.collective political decision in our lifetime, it is important to have
:12:05. > :12:07.the facts. Those people who understand how the economy works and
:12:08. > :12:13.who employ the bulk of people in this country, it is right that their
:12:14. > :12:18.voices are heard. Doesn't it prove that the renegotiation was a
:12:19. > :12:24.cosmetic exercise? That is for the Prime Minister to answer. I don't
:12:25. > :12:28.think it matters too many people beyond the Westminster echo chamber.
:12:29. > :12:32.Beyond there, people are thinking are we more secure, are we better
:12:33. > :12:36.off, are we better off with our friends and neighbours in these
:12:37. > :12:42.dangerous times or are we better off isolated? Isn't it true that your
:12:43. > :12:46.side has lost the economic argument? Not at all. The only thing that you
:12:47. > :12:49.can say is that the forecasts would be wrong. They are all right. I
:12:50. > :12:57.can't say with any certainty that those who support our side of the
:12:58. > :13:00.argument are going to be right. We don't know.
:13:01. > :13:05.argument are going to be right. We wrong. What we do know is that many
:13:06. > :13:07.of the large organisations that are urging us to stay,
:13:08. > :13:08.of the large organisations that are like Tim, were the
:13:09. > :13:14.of the large organisations that are cheerleaders for our joining the
:13:15. > :13:20.euro. And they could not have been more wrong. Tim could not have been
:13:21. > :13:25.the people who got it so wrong when there was the important issue to
:13:26. > :13:32.decide of joining the euro? Has that damaged your credibility? When you
:13:33. > :13:37.listen to people like the CBI, people who are often dismissed by
:13:38. > :13:43.people on Michael's side of the argument, people who say it is a
:13:44. > :13:47.great establishment conspiracy, all forecasts are approximations but we
:13:48. > :13:50.do know that if we remain in the European Union we retain
:13:51. > :13:54.do know that if we remain in the single market which is worth ?78
:13:55. > :13:59.billion per year to our economy. 3 million jobs depend in large part on
:14:00. > :14:06.the trade with that economy. If we go outside, all that is at risk. We
:14:07. > :14:15.could still have access, though. That figure is rubbish. It is the
:14:16. > :14:20.CBI figure. The CBI were wrong about the euro. There is a lot of money
:14:21. > :14:25.and lots of jobs that depend on our continuing to trade with the
:14:26. > :14:27.European Union. Inside or outside the European market?
:14:28. > :14:31.European Union. Inside or outside outside we will be able to trade
:14:32. > :14:36.with the European Union just as we trade with other countries in the
:14:37. > :14:40.world, even if we are outside the single market. It is ridiculous to
:14:41. > :14:45.suggest that the Germans are not going to want to sell as BMWs, the
:14:46. > :14:50.French are not going to want to sell as cheese and wine, in order for
:14:51. > :14:56.that to happen, we will have a perfectly sensible trading
:14:57. > :15:00.relationship. At a cost. The economic argument has been difficult
:15:01. > :15:06.to find institutions to line up and support your side, do you think an
:15:07. > :15:10.immigration it is a stronger card? Let's emphasise the fact that we had
:15:11. > :15:14.hundreds of businessmen writing to the Daily Telegraph yesterday saying
:15:15. > :15:18.they could create more jobs if we leave the European Union. I don't
:15:19. > :15:26.accept that we have lost the argument. What about immigration?
:15:27. > :15:32.Referendum is not about the level of immigration. That is that's what
:15:33. > :15:36.some people think it is B It is about who should decide the level.
:15:37. > :15:40.The levels could be the same I think there are people in our country who
:15:41. > :15:44.think the current levels are fine, there are people who don't. I think
:15:45. > :15:47.we should be able to argue it out n this country and decide in this
:15:48. > :15:51.country and at the moment, while we are in the European Union, we have
:15:52. > :15:54.no control. We don't make the decisions. That message is cutting
:15:55. > :15:57.through, isn't T even if you could argue that you maybe stronger on the
:15:58. > :16:01.economic Melsage, immigration, which is important to many people, is
:16:02. > :16:05.not... When you examine the issue, immigration does not work as an
:16:06. > :16:09.argument for the leave side for two years, fist, there are roughly 2
:16:10. > :16:12.million EU citizens working and living in the UK and there are #
:16:13. > :16:18.million living and working elsewhere in the European Union. It is
:16:19. > :16:21.neutral. The second thing is Dan Hammond, Conservative MEP leaver
:16:22. > :16:25.pointed o ut this morning if you are part of the European free trade
:16:26. > :16:30.area, we would still be subject to the EU's rules when it comes to
:16:31. > :16:34.movement and border of labour. And if we leave the European Union and
:16:35. > :16:39.have access to the single market as Michael wants us to do it. ' Cost us
:16:40. > :16:44.probably as much as it does to be in the EU, we will have no more. If you
:16:45. > :16:47.want to lose sovereignty, you leave the EU I'm not sure about
:16:48. > :16:51.immigration being neutral, for the Leave campaign in terms of polling.
:16:52. > :16:56.It is a reality. There are as many people in the EU here... That is
:16:57. > :16:59.besides the point. And I don't believe, if we vote to leave, that
:17:00. > :17:04.we will sign up to any arrangement or agreement which with continue to
:17:05. > :17:15.deprive us of our right to dewho should come into this country and
:17:16. > :17:20.who shouldn't. -- right to decide. What about nighing ale Farage's
:17:21. > :17:24.comments, that there could be a second referendum. Do you support
:17:25. > :17:28.that? No, I think it is a once in a lifetime time to decide the future
:17:29. > :17:32.and we have to accept it. Even if it is really close, a whisker either
:17:33. > :17:34.way? The result of the Welsh referendum on devolution was as
:17:35. > :17:37.close as you could possibly get. Look at the Scottish independence
:17:38. > :17:42.question. That has come around again. Well it hasn't. It hasn't and
:17:43. > :17:46.it may well not. I don't believe it will, actually. So it hasn't come
:17:47. > :17:50.around again. Well the discussion on it has. Well, you can have
:17:51. > :17:54.discussions. They said it would be settled for a generation You can
:17:55. > :17:58.have discussions for as long as it takes for the cows to come home. I
:17:59. > :18:01.think we have to September result of the referendum. I hope everybody
:18:02. > :18:04.will, however close. Well, Michael Howard says he hopes it will be
:18:05. > :18:09.accepted by everybody but let's say it is only a Is withker for Remain,
:18:10. > :18:14.wouldn't there be legitimate calls then for it to be run a second time
:18:15. > :18:17.by, certainly Conservatives, perhaps not Michael Howard, but many of his
:18:18. > :18:20.colleagues who wanted snout I'm sure it'll fester in the Conservative
:18:21. > :18:26.Party, especially for many years to come. -- who wanted out? But as far
:18:27. > :18:31.as the electorate is concerned, it is a once? A generation to express
:18:32. > :18:34.our views r we getter off in, together with colleagues and
:18:35. > :18:38.friends, protecting our security, jobs and economy or isolated and on
:18:39. > :18:42.our own and less powerful. Once the decision is made we have to stick
:18:43. > :18:46.with it. You say we have to stick with it. We ought to abide by it.
:18:47. > :18:50.But if the accusations are that the Government hasn't set out a level
:18:51. > :18:54.playing field, particularly with money spent on campaign leaflets,
:18:55. > :18:59.would there be an argument to fuel calls for a second referendum.
:19:00. > :19:10.Im'sure those in the Conservative Party won't shut up if we vote to
:19:11. > :19:16.remain. What about Boris Johnson. Look carefully at what he says. I z
:19:17. > :19:20.he talked about Napoleon. He was talking about the various attempts
:19:21. > :19:24.over made over the centuries to unite the countries of Europe. It
:19:25. > :19:29.was an entirely accurate historical annal sichls he is a great asset A
:19:30. > :19:34.very -- analysis. He is a great asset. A popular figure and putting
:19:35. > :19:39.the case in his own fashion. Even Donald tusk argues - when I hear the
:19:40. > :19:43.EU being compared it the plans and projects of Adolf Hitler I can't
:19:44. > :19:47.remain silent. It wasn't. He probably didn't read boys's speech.
:19:48. > :19:51.I don't think it is a fair characterisation of the speech. --
:19:52. > :19:55.Boris' speech. He is probably such a big character he is probably pulling
:19:56. > :20:00.a lot of vote e if you look how well he polled, very difficult. I don't
:20:01. > :20:06.want to get into a battle of personalities. I I share the
:20:07. > :20:11.frustration, if the debate becomes a blue on blue, slug fest between two
:20:12. > :20:15.guy who is went to the same school it'll not give people any idea of
:20:16. > :20:19.the real issues for and against. It is why we need it xt issues, a tough
:20:20. > :20:22.decision with huge risks. -- examine the issues. The British people want
:20:23. > :20:23.those answers, not a schoolboy knock B
:20:24. > :20:27.Thank you. -- knock about. The referendum campaign
:20:28. > :20:29.has been pretty bruising for the Conservative Party -
:20:30. > :20:31.with fellow Conservatives trading blows and at times using some
:20:32. > :20:34.fruity language against each other. So it the issue tearing
:20:35. > :20:38.the party apart? If we vote to Leave on 23rd June,
:20:39. > :20:42.we will be voting for higher prices. It is a great grotesque
:20:43. > :20:54.patronising and proposterous Peter
:20:55. > :20:56.Mandelsonion conceit, that imagines that the people
:20:57. > :21:01.of this country are mere children, capable of being frightened into
:21:02. > :21:04.obedience by conjuring up new bogey The next thing we know the Leave
:21:05. > :21:11.camp will be accusing us of faking the moon landings,
:21:12. > :21:14.kidnapping Shergar and covering up the existence of the
:21:15. > :21:16.Loch Ness Monster. There are certain problems that
:21:17. > :21:19.are caused by EU membership but of Her arguments are enough to persuade
:21:20. > :21:23.me to vote Leave and should be enough to persuade most
:21:24. > :21:25.people to vote Leave. # Love, love will tear
:21:26. > :21:33.us apart again # If we left the EU, we would face
:21:34. > :21:38.more regulations and be in double whammy of EU regulations
:21:39. > :21:43.and UK regulations. You see these kind of Downing Street
:21:44. > :21:49.hostage videos, these people coming Knickers to the pessimists -
:21:50. > :21:55.how about that? # Love, love will tear
:21:56. > :22:05.us apart again...# Yet another example of that fraughty
:22:06. > :22:10.language, courtesy of Boris Johnson. Let's talk post of EU referendum. 37
:22:11. > :22:15.days to go. If only it was coming a little
:22:16. > :22:19.quicker. The disappointment for the losing side, whichever side it is,
:22:20. > :22:22.will have bred such resentment and bitterness. How will both sides of
:22:23. > :22:25.the Conservative Party come together? Well we have to. We have
:22:26. > :22:29.to get together because the Conservative Party has to form the
:22:30. > :22:32.Government of our country, for at least the next four years and given
:22:33. > :22:36.the current state of the Labour Party, probably for much longer than
:22:37. > :22:42.that and so we have to come together and we will. Really? How do you
:22:43. > :22:46.know? Let's look back in history, post Maastricht and John Major,
:22:47. > :22:46.those sides never forgave each other,
:22:47. > :22:52.those sides never forgave each resolved It was very different. Why
:22:53. > :22:54.different? It was the same issue? It was different,
:22:55. > :22:57.different? It was the same issue? It was still a lot of bitterness
:22:58. > :23:02.different? It was the same issue? It the way in which Margaret Thatcher
:23:03. > :23:04.was turned out of office and that really had a huge affect which ran
:23:05. > :23:09.through to the post-Maastricht situation. We haven't got anything
:23:10. > :23:12.like that? Haven't you, there will be bitterness about this
:23:13. > :23:14.like that? Haven't you, there will playing field, accusations chucked
:23:15. > :23:17.around. There are lots of accusations being thrown about on
:23:18. > :23:21.both sides during the accusations being thrown about on
:23:22. > :23:28.referendum debate. When it is over, on June 24th, we simply have to come
:23:29. > :23:32.together. I would expect - whatever the result - - there is a lot of
:23:33. > :23:36.talk about the Prime Minister having a Cabinet reshuffle. I would expect
:23:37. > :23:38.him to have a new Cabinet which gave big jobs to people on the other side
:23:39. > :23:44.of the argument, from him. So, big jobs to people on the other side
:23:45. > :23:49.of the really key job, Chancellor? I don't know what. I will not get into
:23:50. > :23:54.the game of constructing the Cabinet. We've go the time. But he
:23:55. > :23:58.will recognise the need to unite the party and I think the Cabinet will
:23:59. > :24:02.reflect the different strands of opinion within the country, as
:24:03. > :24:06.indeed it does now. What about if Leave, if your side wins, do you
:24:07. > :24:11.still hold to the belief that David Cameron can continue as Prime
:24:12. > :24:16.Minister? Yes, I do. Look, we are going to have some challenges in
:24:17. > :24:20.front of us, if we vote to Leave. I think that challenge we can easily
:24:21. > :24:22.deal with. But the last thing we would want in that situation is the
:24:23. > :24:27.distraction of a Tory leadership campaign. So, David Cameron has said
:24:28. > :24:31.he will stay. I think he should stay and I think he will stay. But will
:24:32. > :24:36.your colleagues, Conservative colleagues, who have campaigned so
:24:37. > :24:41.vociferously, to Leave like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, would they
:24:42. > :24:44.really sit down and accept David Cameron as Prime Minister,
:24:45. > :24:50.negotiating out? Well, I'm sure they would. And I what I imagine David
:24:51. > :24:55.Cameron would do in that situation, I haven't discussed it with him, I
:24:56. > :25:00.don't know what is in his mind but what I would imagine he would do is
:25:01. > :25:03.select someone to conduct the negotiations, who had been arguing
:25:04. > :25:06.to Leave. That would be a sensible thing to do. We have heard from
:25:07. > :25:10.Boris Johnson, just today, he has accused the Prime Minister of a
:25:11. > :25:17.stitch-up in terms of planning and choreographing the Remain side with
:25:18. > :25:23.the big corporations as being the biggest stitch-up since the Bayu,
:25:24. > :25:28.tapestry. Priti Patel, look likened them to the three wise monkeys, hear
:25:29. > :25:34.no immigration, see no immigration, and speak no immigration And George
:25:35. > :25:38.Osborne yesterday accused us of being fantacists. There will be a
:25:39. > :25:42.coming together on June 24th. There has to be. You stha with fingers
:25:43. > :25:46.crossed rather than belief in terms of what is possible. I say it with
:25:47. > :25:50.total belief and confidence. I mean, divided parties, as you know, do not
:25:51. > :25:54.inspire confidence with the electorate. What about the damage
:25:55. > :25:58.being done, right now, with a divided party? Well, we will have
:25:59. > :26:02.power years to put that right and to come together again and to govern
:26:03. > :26:05.the country in the interests of the country. That's what the
:26:06. > :26:09.Conservative Party is always good at.
:26:10. > :26:11.Tomorrow is the State Opening of Parliament, which marks the start
:26:12. > :26:15.The highlight the day will be the Queen's Speech.
:26:16. > :26:17.It's the biggest of Parliamentary occasions and begins
:26:18. > :26:19.with a Royal procession from Buckingham Palace to Westminster.
:26:20. > :26:22.But what political hand luggage is the Queen tipped to be bringing
:26:23. > :26:30.Although the Queen will read it out, her speech is actually written
:26:31. > :26:33.by the Government and sets out the laws that the Government hopes
:26:34. > :26:37.to get approved by Parliament over the coming year.
:26:38. > :26:40.In it, she's expected to announce changes to the care system -
:26:41. > :26:43.including greater support for young people leaving care and speeding
:26:44. > :26:49.There'll also be changes to education in England -
:26:50. > :26:52.to allow more schools to become academies,
:26:53. > :26:56.encourage new non-profit and commercial companies to open
:26:57. > :27:01.private universities, and allow some universities
:27:02. > :27:08.Some of the big education ideas are being carried over to prisons - with
:27:09. > :27:11.a plan to give powers for "reform prisons" to take over failing jails,
:27:12. > :27:17.in a similar manner to school academy chains.
:27:18. > :27:19.There'll be a crackdown on extremists - stopping them
:27:20. > :27:22.working with children and the vulnerable by including
:27:23. > :27:26.extremism offences on criminal record checks.
:27:27. > :27:29.There could also be steps towards a new Bill of Rights,
:27:30. > :27:32.which would replace the Human Rights Act.
:27:33. > :27:36.The Queen will also announce changes to the powers of the Upper Chamber,
:27:37. > :27:41.limiting the Lords' ability to block legislation and finally there'll be
:27:42. > :27:44.some futuristic transport plans, with legislation on insuring
:27:45. > :27:52.driverless cars and the creation of Britain's first spaceport.
:27:53. > :27:54.And Daniel Thornton, from the Institute of Government,
:27:55. > :27:56.joining us now to talk about the Government's
:27:57. > :28:05.And the challenges of getting it through. Welcome. Is one of the
:28:06. > :28:08.biggest problems the backdrop of the EU referendum? It is certainly
:28:09. > :28:11.causing some problems. The other issues to bear in mind is the fact
:28:12. > :28:15.that the Government has a working majority of 17 and no majority at
:28:16. > :28:19.all in the House of Lords. It is trying to balance the budget by
:28:20. > :28:22.2020, so there is pretedy significant public spending cuts
:28:23. > :28:25.under way and there are far-reaching reforms in a number of public
:28:26. > :28:28.services. So, all these three things together make for a pretty
:28:29. > :28:34.challenging backdrop for the Government. Which legislative ideas
:28:35. > :28:41.are going to be the priorities? Well, I think the headlines will be
:28:42. > :28:46.probably taken by the extremism proposals, tackling terrorism and so
:28:47. > :28:51.on. But, for the institute for Government, the most interesting
:28:52. > :28:54.issue is the sort of intersection of the austerity in public services and
:28:55. > :29:00.the far-reaching reforms that round way and some of the signs of strain
:29:01. > :29:04.we are seeing. So, what we are saying, is that the Government
:29:05. > :29:07.really needs to prioritise and recognise the zrients it faces and
:29:08. > :29:12.be realistic about what it can achieve by when. This isn't just the
:29:13. > :29:15.Institute that is saying this. The Government's employed a lot of
:29:16. > :29:19.business people to help it run the Government. There is a lot of senior
:29:20. > :29:22.business people brought in. They have a pretty consistent MissAge for
:29:23. > :29:26.the Government. That is - prioritise F you are working in a big private
:29:27. > :29:30.sector company, the Chief Executive focuses on a small of things and
:29:31. > :29:34.make sure they are done properly. The Government is committed to a
:29:35. > :29:38.wide range of changes, as well as reducing the budgets in a number of
:29:39. > :29:43.services. Do you think it is just not workable. Their plans, as you
:29:44. > :29:47.are putting t ambitious plans for further austerity or zrients on
:29:48. > :29:56.public sector reform r they not workable? It will be challenging. --
:29:57. > :30:02.austerity or restraints. It will be cuts, and it will be ut
:30:03. > :30:07.can by 22% up to 2020. Much of the reductions will fall on the prisons.
:30:08. > :30:10.And, you know, we have seen an increase in violence in prisons, as
:30:11. > :30:14.a cross of had party committee was saying on Monday. So, there are
:30:15. > :30:18.warning signs from so. Public services. If you try and do a big
:30:19. > :30:23.reorganisation at the same time as the sfs is under strain, you are not
:30:24. > :30:27.necessarily going to achieve your objectives. -- at the same time as
:30:28. > :30:30.the service is under strain. It is welcome that Michael Gove has said
:30:31. > :30:34.he will be publishing draft legislation on prison, to give
:30:35. > :30:38.Parliament a chance to consider the proposals carefully. Thank you very
:30:39. > :30:40.much. We have been joined by the shadow Leader of the House of
:30:41. > :30:44.Commons, Chris Bryant. Welcome back. Those warning signs that our
:30:45. > :30:48.previous guest has talked about, do you recognise those that the public
:30:49. > :30:52.sector in certain areas will be put under too much strain - we'll
:30:53. > :30:53.discuss prisons later, but actually what will happen is the situation
:30:54. > :31:04.will get worse and people will be in Putting in place the programme to
:31:05. > :31:10.put things back in shape and in order is full of challenges. So far,
:31:11. > :31:16.the government has risen to those challenges and will continue to do
:31:17. > :31:18.so. I'm a great supporter of publishing proposals in draft
:31:19. > :31:26.legislation so Parliament has the opportunity to look at them and
:31:27. > :31:31.consider them and I'm delighted to hear that Michael Gove is planning
:31:32. > :31:35.to do that in relation to prisons. You say that the Tories have risen
:31:36. > :31:41.to the challenge but there is a long list of legislation that are being
:31:42. > :31:46.scrutinised or defeated because they haven't been thought through, so say
:31:47. > :31:51.the opposition, also your own side, tax credit cards, child refugees,
:31:52. > :31:56.trade union legislation, housing. They haven't risen to the challenge.
:31:57. > :32:00.They've been trying to push through bad legislation. Most of the defeats
:32:01. > :32:05.in the House of Lords have come from the fact that the Tories don't have
:32:06. > :32:08.a majority in the house of Lords and have been outvoted. There have been
:32:09. > :32:14.times when the government has been asked to think again and has fought
:32:15. > :32:18.again. It is a listening government. The house of Lords
:32:19. > :32:24.again. It is a listening government. happening in the Commons? First, I
:32:25. > :32:28.don't think you should be able to read out a list of what's
:32:29. > :32:33.don't think you should be able to Queens speech tomorrow. Parliament
:32:34. > :32:38.should hear about it first tomorrow. This is just what has been in the
:32:39. > :32:42.papers. Already announced in the papers and briefed out. That's
:32:43. > :32:44.naughty. I don't think the government is dealing
:32:45. > :32:47.naughty. I don't think the economic situation in this country.
:32:48. > :32:56.They've missed every target in terms of debt, cutting the deficit. One of
:32:57. > :33:00.the reasons is because often in their anti-austerity measures,
:33:01. > :33:02.they've cut off our noses to spite our face. They have public services
:33:03. > :33:08.which simply can't cope. One of the good things the government might
:33:09. > :33:12.want to do tomorrow is around children in care. You can't do that
:33:13. > :33:16.with local authorities that are pared back to the bone, in
:33:17. > :33:28.particular in the toughest areas. I feel most angry about Tory MPs who
:33:29. > :33:31.rebel getting more money to the richest authorities in the land
:33:32. > :33:36.while the poorest get cut more. I don't think we should have a Queen
:33:37. > :33:41.'s speech tomorrow at all. It should be after the referendum. It will be
:33:42. > :33:46.candy floss with a nasty taste afterwards. The key point is that
:33:47. > :33:50.they are going to cut back the house of Lords because they are terrified
:33:51. > :33:56.that they lose bad legislation all the time. Pick up on your main
:33:57. > :34:00.point. The thrust of Chris Bryant's argument about whether austerity has
:34:01. > :34:06.been counter-productive. You are pushing public services so hard that
:34:07. > :34:10.you won't be able to do the things you want to do. It hasn't been
:34:11. > :34:16.counter-productive. We had to do it. We had to bring the nation's
:34:17. > :34:21.finances back into order. The debt hasn't disappeared yet. We haven't
:34:22. > :34:28.achieved everything but we are making a huge amount of progress
:34:29. > :34:35.towards achieving that difficult objective. Let's look for a point of
:34:36. > :34:41.agreement between Chris and I. We think Wales is a good country. We
:34:42. > :34:45.do. I absolutely agree about the importance of the measures to do
:34:46. > :34:50.with children in care, young people in care. I think they are overdue.
:34:51. > :34:55.It is something that should have been tackled a long time ago. I
:34:56. > :35:00.think you will find that the proposals are such that they will be
:35:01. > :35:04.Cape ball of being put in place without putting undue burdens on
:35:05. > :35:08.local authorities. The undue burden is already there on local
:35:09. > :35:13.authorities. That is my argument. One of the dangers in the economy at
:35:14. > :35:18.the moment. Two major pressures, house prices. I suspect there will
:35:19. > :35:23.be nothing that will help build more homes which we desperately need. For
:35:24. > :35:28.instance, I'd like to see an end to the hoarding of land by big
:35:29. > :35:32.developers. It is perfectly easy to legislate on that. Secondly,
:35:33. > :35:41.productivity in this country is falling way behind other countries
:35:42. > :35:43.in Europe. There should be measures in the Queens speech tomorrow to
:35:44. > :35:53.enhance skills. There is a Digital economy Bill, hurrah, well overdue.
:35:54. > :35:58.Let's talk about the EU backdrop, in terms of productivity, for example.
:35:59. > :36:03.As a result of the referendum, everything is on hold. Businesses
:36:04. > :36:08.aren't making decisions. Legislation is being tailored to wait for the
:36:09. > :36:13.referendum. It has been an almighty destruction. If the government had
:36:14. > :36:17.taken Chris's advice and postponed the Queens speech until after the
:36:18. > :36:23.referendum, you would have said everything was on hold. That's not
:36:24. > :36:26.the question. Wouldn't it have been a better idea to have it after the
:36:27. > :36:30.referendum? The government has to get on with running the country and
:36:31. > :36:36.that is why we are having a Queens speech. It is not true to say that
:36:37. > :36:42.everything has been put on hold. Nice try. We are only sitting for 16
:36:43. > :36:46.days in the next six weeks. We should be waiting until after them
:36:47. > :36:56.to have proper Queens speech with a proper programme in it and say that
:36:57. > :37:03.everything is on hold? On the house of lords, Chris Bryant talked about
:37:04. > :37:12.proposals to clip the wings of the House of Lords, is that going to be
:37:13. > :37:19.supported? There is a problem. The House of Lords has a very important
:37:20. > :37:22.constitutional role to scrutinise legislation and send it back to the
:37:23. > :37:27.House of Commons to think again. No one argues with that. But when the
:37:28. > :37:35.House of Lords does it again, again and again. Even when the house has
:37:36. > :37:40.considerable majorities and they have looked again and thought again
:37:41. > :37:45.and they want to do it, the House of Lords is overstepping the mark if it
:37:46. > :37:48.keeps sending things back. On manifesto commitments. If Labour
:37:49. > :37:53.were in government, pushing through a radical programme of reform, being
:37:54. > :37:59.stopped by the House of Lords every five minutes you'd be furious. I
:38:00. > :38:03.respect Michael's position more if he had said this when the Tories had
:38:04. > :38:06.a majority in the House of Lords under a Labour government and
:38:07. > :38:12.smashed our legislation all over the place. We always respected manifesto
:38:13. > :38:20.commitments. What about the commitment to get rid of all
:38:21. > :38:29.hereditary peers? You did get rid of them. There are still 92 of them
:38:30. > :38:32.with by-elections. It's bizarre. One thing that is dangerous is the
:38:33. > :38:36.government using secondary legislation which only gets 90
:38:37. > :38:40.minutes debates if the government allows it and is an amendable to
:38:41. > :38:44.push through enormous changes like working tax credits last year. That
:38:45. > :38:48.is what they are trying to stop the House of Lords doing. I think the
:38:49. > :38:54.House of Lords is within its rights not to let those through. Secondly
:38:55. > :38:57.to say we're never going to allow secondary legislation provisions in
:38:58. > :39:03.primary legislation. I think the government is working in dangerous
:39:04. > :39:08.territory. At the end, the House of Lords needs reform. It should be
:39:09. > :39:12.elected. It is a nonsense. It is unsustainable. There will be as many
:39:13. > :39:20.as the Chinese People's assembly soon. Thank you, Chris Bryant.
:39:21. > :39:22.You may remember that last week the Welsh Assembly failed to choose
:39:23. > :39:24.a new First Minister, after Plaid Cymru, UKIP
:39:25. > :39:27.and the Welsh Conservatives joined forces to block the Labour Leader,
:39:28. > :39:30.So are the parties any nearer to a deal?
:39:31. > :39:32.Let's get the latest from the BBC Wales Political
:39:33. > :39:42.So, tell ours. There have been talks between Labour and Plaid Cymru to
:39:43. > :39:46.break the deadlock. By way of background, this time last week,
:39:47. > :39:51.roughly this time last week, there was a vote to nominate the next
:39:52. > :39:54.First Minister and we expected it to be a formality because Labour are by
:39:55. > :39:59.far the biggest party in the assembly after the assembly
:40:00. > :40:03.election. But what happened was that Plaid Cymru's leader Leanne Wood
:40:04. > :40:08.challenged Carwyn Jones in that vote and she had the support of Ukip and
:40:09. > :40:12.the Conservatives which meant she had the numbers to get to 29 and we
:40:13. > :40:17.were left with a situation where Carwyn Jones the Labour leader and
:40:18. > :40:22.Leanne Wood had 29 votes each and there was stalemate. The back of
:40:23. > :40:26.that, and Plaid Cymru have had talks to break the deadlock. We had a
:40:27. > :40:31.statement last night saying that the talks were over they have gone very
:40:32. > :40:37.well. This morning, they have been putting whatever deal has been
:40:38. > :40:42.agreed to their respected Labour and Plaid Cymru assembly members. The
:40:43. > :40:46.Labour meeting has finished. We have not had any official feedback yet. I
:40:47. > :40:51.met a couple of assembly members who had smiles on their faces saying
:40:52. > :40:56.everything went fine. Whatever was presented to them, they clearly, the
:40:57. > :41:00.ones I've been speaking to, don't have a problem with it. The Plaid
:41:01. > :41:06.Cymru group meeting is still going on so we will have to wait to see
:41:07. > :41:09.what has been put to them before we get an official response. Once we
:41:10. > :41:13.get the response from the two parties, we will get a joint state
:41:14. > :41:22.and and it will be all zest and scale. Is this on the First Minister
:41:23. > :41:27.or an Coalition Government in Wales? -- all systems go. It will not be
:41:28. > :41:31.for a Coalition Government. -- all systems go. It will not be
:41:32. > :41:35.expect the nomination vote will be held again, this time without the
:41:36. > :41:37.expect the nomination vote will be drama, we expect. We expect Carwyn
:41:38. > :41:41.Jones to be officially drama, we expect. We expect Carwyn
:41:42. > :41:44.First Minister. During the rest of the week he will be
:41:45. > :41:50.First Minister. During the rest of cabinet together and by the weekend,
:41:51. > :41:52.administration. These two cabinet together and by the weekend,
:41:53. > :41:57.have been in coalition in the past, this time, it will be a minority
:41:58. > :42:02.Administration. An attempt to get some degree of stability to get
:42:03. > :42:09.budgets and legislation through. The issue of prisoner safety has
:42:10. > :42:11.been looked at in two new major reports -
:42:12. > :42:14.one by the Commons Justice Select Committee, another by the BBC -
:42:15. > :42:17.which found that there is a 20% increase in assaults
:42:18. > :42:24.in the last six six months drugs and weapons being smuggled
:42:25. > :42:27.into jails has more than doubled Some even by drone or thrown over
:42:28. > :42:33.prison walls, as you can The evidence shows the extremes
:42:34. > :42:40.to which inmates are willing to go and authorities seem to be fighting
:42:41. > :42:43.a losing battle over violence We've been joined
:42:44. > :42:48.by Frances Crook from the Howard League for Penal Reform,
:42:49. > :42:51.and of course Michael Howard - former Home Secretary -
:42:52. > :43:02.is still with us. Michael Howard, can I get your
:43:03. > :43:07.reaction to these pictures of drones flying in drugs or mobile phones and
:43:08. > :43:13.packages going over walls. It's horrifying. It's not entirely new.
:43:14. > :43:17.In my day, drugs were thrown over the walls of prisons and I
:43:18. > :43:23.introduced for the first time, drug testing in prison. I was told it
:43:24. > :43:28.couldn't be done, it would lead to riots and the unachievable. We did
:43:29. > :43:33.put in place drug testing and what you describe is an extremely serious
:43:34. > :43:39.situation and has to be dealt with. How would you deal with it? The
:43:40. > :43:43.government has been increasing punishments for illicit items,
:43:44. > :43:47.drugs, phones, any kind of misbehaviour. That's created a kind
:43:48. > :43:54.of battle and make things much worse. They have upped the ante so
:43:55. > :43:59.much. The extra imprisonment that has been given as a punishment has
:44:00. > :44:06.amounted to 2000 years of extra imprisonment for misbehaviour. The
:44:07. > :44:12.extra punishments are making things worse, not solving things. The drugs
:44:13. > :44:16.and phones are a symptom of a real crisis in the prisons. It's
:44:17. > :44:20.different to what it was a quarter of a century ago. Prisons are in
:44:21. > :44:26.such a terrible state. Violence levels are so high. Drug-taking is a
:44:27. > :44:31.symptom. Last week, another 18-year-old handedness of in prison.
:44:32. > :44:36.I attended an inquest with the mother of an 18-year-old son who
:44:37. > :44:39.took his own life, he was known to have mental health problems. There
:44:40. > :44:45.are very serious problems that need addressing. It is a desperate
:44:46. > :44:51.situation that is a result of the wrong sort of ways of running them.
:44:52. > :44:56.It is a desperate situation for a young man to take his life in those
:44:57. > :45:01.situations. Lessons must be learned from that event but we have no
:45:02. > :45:05.reason to suppose, sitting here this morning, that had anything to do
:45:06. > :45:12.with the punishments that are being imposed for people using drugs in
:45:13. > :45:16.prisons. I think, using drugs in prison is wrong. I think you've got
:45:17. > :45:17.to do everything you can to stop that happening and that includes
:45:18. > :45:32.punishing the people who do it. Ask But if there is a policy of zero
:45:33. > :45:36.tolerance and more drugs are getting n the policy is not working? . There
:45:37. > :45:39.is no evidence to suggest that the krachdown of drugs is there with
:45:40. > :45:43.extra violence. Extra violence is aed about thing, you need to take
:45:44. > :45:47.whatever actions you need it take to deal with that. But you also have to
:45:48. > :45:51.take firm action to deal with the abuse of drugs in prison. Surely
:45:52. > :45:53.that is the right way to do it. The public wouldn't accept that
:45:54. > :45:57.prisoners are allowed to get the sort of things that we saw in those
:45:58. > :46:00.pictures into their prisons, and then go unpunished. The drugs are
:46:01. > :46:05.extremely dangerous. We don't want people to take them. Particularly as
:46:06. > :46:11.they are often taking a cocktail of drugs, prescription dru, illegal
:46:12. > :46:14.drugs and legal drugs. It is extremely dangerous (it creates
:46:15. > :46:19.gangs inside prison and adds to the violence. You have to punish them.
:46:20. > :46:24.You have to deal with the problem. If you deal with it in the long way
:46:25. > :46:28.you make it. You inflate the market. If you want to make a lot of money,
:46:29. > :46:31.buy drugs in prisons. You have to deal with the problems, gross
:46:32. > :46:35.overcrowding, inappropriate overuse of prisons. Far too few stwaf,
:46:36. > :46:40.nothing happening all day for people. Young men locked up day
:46:41. > :46:44.after day after day, in a stinking cell with rats and cockroaches, an
:46:45. > :46:48.open toilet they have to defecate into, next to the person sleeping on
:46:49. > :46:53.the bunk next to them. That's a reality. This is' unacceptable. This
:46:54. > :46:56.as a result of a Government that says it'll have a campaign of zero
:46:57. > :47:00.tolerance of prisoners who offend in prison on things like drugs and your
:47:01. > :47:05.claim that prison works, seems to have been dashed by the wayside Not
:47:06. > :47:10.Atul A first of all when I said "prison work requests" what I meant
:47:11. > :47:14.which is incontrovertible, is that you have the professional, repeat
:47:15. > :47:17.serious criminals in prison, they can't continue to commit crimes
:47:18. > :47:24.against the public it is undenighable. They go out and
:47:25. > :47:27.reoffend and come back in again. As prison population increased crime
:47:28. > :47:30.has come down. The conditions that from sows be describes are
:47:31. > :47:33.unacceptable and Michael Gove is putting in place some far-reaching
:47:34. > :47:38.Myers it deal with those conditions. What is he doing to deal with
:47:39. > :47:43.overcrowding? Build new prisons. He has said he will do that. Building
:47:44. > :47:46.new prisons and closing... Let me finish. What has not been
:47:47. > :47:50.established at all, is any link between the conditions which have
:47:51. > :47:54.been described, which are unacceptable and the need it take if
:47:55. > :47:59.you were action against the use and abuse of drugs in prison. How would
:48:00. > :48:04.you, looking at it as an observer, how would people behave if they were
:48:05. > :48:09.in conditions, if Frances Cook is correct you have vermin, and people
:48:10. > :48:12.defecating next to you who. You have no room. Nothing to stimulate your
:48:13. > :48:17.moneyed and nothing to do all day. How do you think they would react?
:48:18. > :48:22.Look, not all prisoners by any means are in those conditions. The
:48:23. > :48:25.majority are. Is that true? That sounds incredible. I'm sure you
:48:26. > :48:31.don't have any evidence for that. I do. 20,000 men are forced to share
:48:32. > :48:34.cells. That is a different matter. No, they are forced to share cells
:48:35. > :48:38.designed for one person. The conditions - the report today on
:48:39. > :48:43.Nottingham, report after report after report, and I visit prisons
:48:44. > :48:49.all the time. But they are all are being punished, not there for
:48:50. > :48:52.holiday. A lot are on remand awaiting trial. Most will not get a
:48:53. > :48:55.prison sentence. Our prison conditions are a stain on the
:48:56. > :49:01.nation, disgraceful. Causing more crime. Putting staff in danger,
:49:02. > :49:05.putting lives at risks. Every four days somebody takes their own life
:49:06. > :49:09.in prison. This is, as Michael Howard says, completely unacceptal.
:49:10. > :49:14.We have to do something about it. I'm pleased that Michael Gove is
:49:15. > :49:20.talking positively about the treasure within everyone. We need it
:49:21. > :49:24.talking positively about the However, we need urgent action not
:49:25. > :49:27.postponed. Michael Howard, this idea of having a Leaking table of
:49:28. > :49:31.prisons, to have successful conditions, prisons that aren't in
:49:32. > :49:34.the condition that Frances Cook describes taking over other prisons
:49:35. > :49:38.or acting as a guide, do you support that? It seems a reasonable y.d I
:49:39. > :49:41.support every effort made to improve the rehabilitation of people in
:49:42. > :49:46.prison. It is a very difficult thing to do. Many ways have been tried to
:49:47. > :49:49.do it. That's true, we agree on that. None have
:49:50. > :49:52.do it. That's true, we agree on should certainly keep trying but we
:49:53. > :49:57.also have it punish people when they do wrong, we have to be firm this
:49:58. > :50:00.they abecause drugs in prison and we have to take action, I quite agree,
:50:01. > :50:03.to reduce overcrowding. Frances Cook thank you very
:50:04. > :50:05.There was probably more chance of a stage musical
:50:06. > :50:07.of Screaming Lord Sutch being made than one on the life
:50:08. > :50:13.of Jeremy Corbyn but then real life being more absurd than fiction
:50:14. > :50:18.Transferring to the West End, the show about David Sutch's life
:50:19. > :50:30.We'll talk to playwright in a moment.
:50:31. > :50:32.NEWS REEL: The youngest contender of the five
:50:33. > :50:33.the National Teenage candidate, is a 22-year-old pop
:50:34. > :50:36.singer, who's latest disk is called Jack the Ripper.
:50:37. > :50:39.The funny thing - and he was funny - about David Sutch -
:50:40. > :50:41.was that for a man who became a Monster Raving Loony,
:50:42. > :50:45.In 1966 he stood for the National Teenage Party in
:50:46. > :50:55.For David Edward Sutch, 585 votes....
:50:56. > :50:59.Promoting a lowering of the voting age from 21.
:51:00. > :51:02.He wasn't just a novelty politician, though, but a '60s' wild
:51:03. > :51:04.man on the music scene, he played alongside Keith Moon.
:51:05. > :51:12.This is a rehearsal scene from a romp of a play
:51:13. > :51:19.He might have stayed with music were it
:51:20. > :51:25.at in America during a mugging and he came back in the 1980s
:51:26. > :51:31.The Monster Raving Loony Party, an attempt to prick political
:51:32. > :51:35.pomposity and have a laugh, which in the infamously
:51:36. > :51:36.heated South Bermondsey by-election of that year,
:51:37. > :51:42.COMMENTATOR: Official Monster Raving Loony Party.
:51:43. > :51:49.Though, over time, not everyone saw the joke.
:51:50. > :51:51.People like you, you are ruining this country, you.
:51:52. > :51:57.Loonies contested by-elections and general elections,
:51:58. > :52:00.often standing side-by-side with Prime Ministers and by 1997,
:52:01. > :52:12.Lord Sutch was included in a novelty range of leaders chocolate heads.
:52:13. > :52:15.But the party's ledgendary moment was in the first Bootle by-election
:52:16. > :52:17.of 1990, where the Loonies upset an otherwise rather mundane
:52:18. > :52:20.The other fragments of the shattered Alliance -
:52:21. > :52:34.The Liberal at least avoiding the indignity suffered
:52:35. > :52:37.suffered by the SDP, who were beaten by The Monster
:52:38. > :52:42.Lord Sutch immediately offered an electoral back to the SBP.
:52:43. > :52:48.David Sutch's suicide in 1998 did not mean Loonydom ended.
:52:49. > :52:50.funny is that Loonydom's legacy includes absurd policies that
:52:51. > :53:03.Legalisation of commercial radio, and the abolition
:53:04. > :53:06.That things that were once considered utterly
:53:07. > :53:11.is probably the best tribute to the Loonies and satirises
:53:12. > :53:15.genuine policies that might actually be crazy,
:53:16. > :53:23.but then in British politics, such is life.
:53:24. > :53:30.The first Cabinet reshovele. Come on, shuffle along a bit.
:53:31. > :53:33.That is a novel take on a Cabinet reshuffle. I do that at home quite a
:53:34. > :53:34.lot. And the political playwright
:53:35. > :53:37.James Graham is here, as is the current leader
:53:38. > :53:49.of the Monster Raving Loony Party, James, where Creaming Lord such and
:53:50. > :53:55.The Monster Raving Loony Party? It makes sense to mee, unlike other
:53:56. > :53:59.party leaders, politicians have a shelf life, they represent a kind of
:54:00. > :54:07.constance through modern British political history. I think the first
:54:08. > :54:12.election that Screaming Lord Sutch stood for was 1953 and here they are
:54:13. > :54:17.standing today so as at slightly comic but also important look at how
:54:18. > :54:22.politics and democracy has changed I thought it was important. You have
:54:23. > :54:29.been there since the 50s. What do you make of it? I isn't seen it.
:54:30. > :54:39.Wonderful. I expect Screaming Lord Sutch is smiling down now. What
:54:40. > :54:43.about the comedic side. They do provide great comedy for you to
:54:44. > :54:47.right with, the characters. Yes but people can disagree on the
:54:48. > :54:51.candidates now, that are imstating what Alan does and single oar u
:54:52. > :54:54.candidates aren't always particularly serious but they
:54:55. > :54:57.represent something moving, the mrinder that politics is not about
:54:58. > :55:04.anyone having a investigate but also that anyone can stand. And if
:55:05. > :55:09.Screaming Lord Sutch can stand and Howling Laud Hope can stand, then
:55:10. > :55:14.anyone can, respectfully. Do you think party has changed, not you,
:55:15. > :55:20.but the party? Noe what it is trying to do? Note really. We are still
:55:21. > :55:24.there, doing what we do. Say we are still there, I am, we are actually
:55:25. > :55:30.doing the Tooting by-election on June 16th. Are you? Which in actual
:55:31. > :55:36.fact, June 16th is the exact day we started the party in 198 #. So a bit
:55:37. > :55:39.of nostalga there for you. It is also my birth Dane the day that
:55:40. > :55:44.Screaming Lord Sutch was no longer with us. -- my birthday. What about
:55:45. > :55:48.the proposals from your party that have become law? I mean I have
:55:49. > :55:52.always been inkreeged by the fact that quite a few have become law.
:55:53. > :56:00.Anything else now on the table Yes, we are still want a 99 p coin.
:56:01. > :56:07.And our position on the EU is that maybe we should come out and be like
:56:08. > :56:11.humpty dumpty and put ourselves together in. In out, in out. Shake
:56:12. > :56:14.it all about. They are on your side at the moment.
:56:15. > :56:19.All support welcome. I'm sure it is at this stage. Have you had any
:56:20. > :56:25.run-ins with the Monster Raving Loony Party? As far as I recall, I
:56:26. > :56:30.always had an excellent relationship with the party. Didn't a former
:56:31. > :56:36.member stand against you in 2005? Yes, it was all right. Did you get
:56:37. > :56:41.to know him? A bit. It wasn't a problem but you shared a platform at
:56:42. > :56:45.the time. We Z In terms ever of your writing, are you influenced by what
:56:46. > :56:49.is going on in the current climate or have you been planning this for
:56:50. > :56:53.ages? I have been planning it but you are listening. I sometimes think
:56:54. > :56:57.it is not original Shakespeare, but if you want it comment on what is
:56:58. > :57:01.happening now, it is useful to look back at the past equivalent. I did a
:57:02. > :57:06.play This House in the 1970s... Which was great I thought it was a
:57:07. > :57:09.helpful way to look at what coalition politics is like today and
:57:10. > :57:13.equally, there are party fractions all across Westminster at the moment
:57:14. > :57:18.and I think looking at that through monster raving loonies is quite fun.
:57:19. > :57:29.You mentioned the Welsh Assembly early on, last Thursday. We got
:57:30. > :57:32.5,742 votes. Is that a record? Yes. 5,742 people 234 Wales wanted us to
:57:33. > :57:36.represent them in their party. The loony party they are voting for. Do
:57:37. > :57:40.you think this play will kick-start more of a revival? Of course it
:57:41. > :57:45.will. Where can we see the play? Opening tonight at the Soho Theatre.
:57:46. > :57:51.We have been previewing, but we open tonight and run through to June
:57:52. > :57:52.18th. There will be at least 20 Loonies there. Are you going
:57:53. > :57:57.tonight? Not tonight. On 28th. There's just time before we go
:57:58. > :58:01.to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was -
:58:02. > :58:03.what has GCHQ done to try B) Enter Robert Hannigan, the
:58:04. > :58:09.Director of GCHQ, as a contestent as their new Director
:58:10. > :58:15.of Communications? So Michael what's
:58:16. > :58:24.the correct answer? They have opened a Twitter account.
:58:25. > :58:28.You are right. Reading all those, it wasn't the most difficult. What do
:58:29. > :58:33.you think about that? Of them opening themselves up Why in the I
:58:34. > :58:35.thought it was supposed to be secret I think they have said they are not
:58:36. > :58:38.going to disclose everything. I think they have said they are not
:58:39. > :58:40.wonder what they are going to say. It makes you wonder. Thank you for
:58:41. > :58:45.being on the programme today. Instead there'll be live coverage
:58:46. > :58:48.of the Queen's Speech But Andrew and I will be back
:58:49. > :58:53.here on BBC Two on Thursday You look lovely, Mum.
:58:54. > :59:04.Go on, do a twirl.