15/06/2016

:00:36. > :00:41.George Osborne says he'll be forced to break his own manifesto promises

:00:42. > :00:44.if Britain votes to leave the EU next week, raising taxes

:00:45. > :00:52.But has the threat of a punishment budget backfired?

:00:53. > :00:54.The Chancellor's warning of further cuts and tax rises to come has

:00:55. > :00:59.sparked a major backlash among many Conservative MPs backing Leave,

:01:00. > :01:03.who say Project Fear has gone into hyperspace.

:01:04. > :01:06.Will those Conservatives show their frustrations at the final

:01:07. > :01:08.Prime Minister's Questions before the referendum, and how

:01:09. > :01:12.will Jeremy Corbyn respond to the threat of more austerity?

:01:13. > :01:16.We'll bring you all the action from the Commons live at midday.

:01:17. > :01:19.Philip Green has told a Commons committee he's sorry

:01:20. > :01:22.for the demise of BHS - but has the billionaire businessman

:01:23. > :01:26.done enough to convince sceptical MPs?

:01:27. > :01:29.And is Nigel Farage all at sea as he leads a flotilla of fishing

:01:30. > :01:46.boats up the Thames to Westminster in protest at EU fishing quotas?

:01:47. > :01:54.A nice day for sailing up the Thames! We could have done the

:01:55. > :01:58.programme from the back of the vote! Ann wrote

:01:59. > :02:05.of the programme today, two MPs who know a thing or two

:02:06. > :02:07.about drifting rudderless through choppy political waters -

:02:08. > :02:09.it's the Conservative minister, backing Remain, Ed Vaizey,

:02:10. > :02:11.and the Labour MP, backing Leave, John Mann.

:02:12. > :02:15.The referendum campaign feels tense, fraught, and perhaps

:02:16. > :02:18.Spooked by a tightening of the opinion polls,

:02:19. > :02:20.the Remain camp are hammering home their message on the economic

:02:21. > :02:23.impact of a vote to leave the EU with the promise of

:02:24. > :02:25.a gloomy emergency budget to follow soon after.

:02:26. > :02:28.It's gone down like a cup of cold sick among

:02:29. > :02:33.Leave, meanwhile, are still desperate to show they've got a plan

:02:34. > :02:36.for what the UK would look like after exiting the EU,

:02:37. > :02:39.even if they're not in the position to make promises, given they're

:02:40. > :02:44.So both sides today are claiming to have a pretty accurate vision

:02:45. > :02:49.of how events could unfold after the vote next Thursday -

:02:50. > :03:05.The Leave campaign has published a Queen's Speech-style "road map"

:03:06. > :03:11.to show how the UK could split from the EU by 2020.

:03:12. > :03:14.They claim new laws could be introduced to end the automatic

:03:15. > :03:17.right of all citizens to enter the UK

:03:18. > :03:25.And they predict a new EU-UK trade deal outside the single market

:03:26. > :03:29.They also say new laws could be introduced to

:03:30. > :03:39.cut VAT on energy bills and divert more funds to the NHS.

:03:40. > :03:43.so that the mysticism from the leave side but what are Remain seeing in

:03:44. > :03:46.the crystal ball? Chancellor George Osborne warns this

:03:47. > :03:48.morning his first priority after a Leave vote will be

:03:49. > :03:51.a new "Brexit budget". He's been joined by former

:03:52. > :03:53.Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling to say it would mean tax

:03:54. > :03:56.rises and spending cuts, to plug the ?30 billion black hole

:03:57. > :03:59.in the public finances that he says The Chancellors foresee there'd

:04:00. > :04:10.need to be a 2p rise And even protected budgets

:04:11. > :04:14.like the NHS, schools and defence But those warnings haven't gone down

:04:15. > :04:23.well with a growing number of Conservative MPs,

:04:24. > :04:25.who've signed a letter this morning saying

:04:26. > :04:28.they find it "incredible" the Chancellor is threatening

:04:29. > :04:30.to renege on his manifesto promises, and promising to vote

:04:31. > :04:34.down any such budget. This is what George Osborne had

:04:35. > :04:48.to say in the last 20 minutes. We're sharing a platform and arguing

:04:49. > :04:53.the same case for the first time. It is quite simple. We have both been

:04:54. > :05:00.Chancellor as the economy has faced very difficult times. We know what

:05:01. > :05:04.happens when you lose control of the economy. We've both had to deal with

:05:05. > :05:08.the consequences of the public finances collapsing and the

:05:09. > :05:14.difficult decisions that the country then has to take. And today we're

:05:15. > :05:21.here together because we agree on this - a vote to be the EU would do

:05:22. > :05:23.it to us all over again. That is the Chancellor George Osborne. Lets

:05:24. > :05:27.Victor one of the MPs who has not been overly impressed by Mr

:05:28. > :05:30.Osborne's warning. He is Jacob Rees-Mogg and he is in the central

:05:31. > :05:36.lobby of the House of commons. What is wrong with having an emergency

:05:37. > :05:38.budget? If there is a vote to leave, there will be big decisions to take.

:05:39. > :05:43.The Chancellor basically means to tick down and, regrettably, stop

:05:44. > :05:46.talking nonsense. If we vote to leave on Thursday week, there is a

:05:47. > :05:53.minimum two-year period in which we are still a member of the European

:05:54. > :05:57.Union. Article 50 takes time to be exercised so what he is doing in

:05:58. > :06:02.this hysterical suggestion of an emergency budget is ignoring the

:06:03. > :06:05.treaty provisions for an orderly departure of a member state. He

:06:06. > :06:09.really ought to read the treaty is more carefully and particularly an

:06:10. > :06:13.excellent report by the House of Lords European committee, which sets

:06:14. > :06:17.out how article 50 would work and underpins that the purpose of

:06:18. > :06:20.article 50 is to avoid an economic dislocation, both for the leaving

:06:21. > :06:23.state and, even more importantly from their point of view, from the

:06:24. > :06:28.point of view of other member states of the EU. But many on your site,

:06:29. > :06:31.for Leave, have stated that there could be a short-term shock. There

:06:32. > :06:35.could be instability and George Osborne is only saying that the

:06:36. > :06:38.Government would respond in the end of the Bob vote, which he and other

:06:39. > :06:43.economic institutions have predicted would lead to some sort of economic

:06:44. > :06:45.meltdown. The economic meltdown idea is a far-fetched one but what most

:06:46. > :06:49.of the commentators have said is that there may be some instability

:06:50. > :06:54.in currency markets but there is always instability in currency

:06:55. > :06:58.markets. This is par for the course in the financial system. No body

:06:59. > :07:03.would know the economic effects within a week or two of a vote to

:07:04. > :07:07.leave so an emergency budget is really indicating a degree of panic.

:07:08. > :07:11.It is a very silly thing to say, quite honestly, and for the

:07:12. > :07:14.Chancellor to jettison Conservative principles in favour of his euro for

:07:15. > :07:19.the seems to me desperate Leon Weiss. There was an emergency budget

:07:20. > :07:24.in 2010 to deal with the financial crisis so it isn't as if you have

:07:25. > :07:27.had emergency budgets before. In 2010 there was a new government that

:07:28. > :07:32.felt the different economic policy should be followed. That was the

:07:33. > :07:37.reason for the budget, same reason as a 1979, and in 1997, Gordon Brown

:07:38. > :07:41.had a budget when he came into office. When the governments change,

:07:42. > :07:44.the resort was a budget because economic policy changes. That's not

:07:45. > :07:49.an emergency, that's a matter of routine. So in terms of you and

:07:50. > :07:52.others signing to say that you would vote down that sort of budget, you

:07:53. > :07:55.are going to vote against your own government on something as critical

:07:56. > :07:59.as a budget? It is not my government, it is Her Majesty's but

:08:00. > :08:05.I am going to stick to the manifesto that I stood on which said that we

:08:06. > :08:09.would not raise tax. The economy is not going to react in the way he is

:08:10. > :08:14.saying. The forecasts are based on assumptions that no rational person

:08:15. > :08:20.would follow and the Treasury assumptions are ones that he's given

:08:21. > :08:23.away to an independent body, until he decided he needed to arrange the

:08:24. > :08:29.figures to suit his political argument. But you are prepared to

:08:30. > :08:32.basically vote down the budget are Conservative Government? I would

:08:33. > :08:39.vote against a budget that broke the Conservative Party's manifesto and a

:08:40. > :08:41.budget introduced out of spite to punish the British voters for not

:08:42. > :08:46.obeying the wisdom of George Osborne. It is the height of

:08:47. > :08:50.arrogance the week before a vote to say, if you don't do as I say and

:08:51. > :08:54.going to punish you. I think it is very damaging to George Osborne's

:08:55. > :08:57.credible as he is Chancellor. Do you think George Osborne should remain

:08:58. > :09:01.as Chancellor if the UK votes to leave the EU? It won't be a matter

:09:02. > :09:07.for me to dock but what do you think? Let's wait until we have the

:09:08. > :09:10.voted dock you been quite unspoken. He has done a lot of damage to his

:09:11. > :09:17.credible as it and will have a hard chance to repair it.

:09:18. > :09:20.Ed Vaizey, this is Mr Osborne's punishment budget if we vote to

:09:21. > :09:24.leave, and it is crashed and burned on take off. I donated the

:09:25. > :09:27.punishment budget. I think George Osborne is making a very important

:09:28. > :09:31.point, which is a point we have to get across, that we know there will

:09:32. > :09:36.be an economic shock if we weave the EU. Every credible analysis of the

:09:37. > :09:43.economy says there will be a significant impact on our economy.

:09:44. > :09:47.This is very serious stuff. How big would the Treasury save impact would

:09:48. > :09:51.be? George's budget proposal sets out the kind of changes you would

:09:52. > :09:55.have to see to fill that hole. How big does the Treasury say the impact

:09:56. > :10:00.would be in its short-term report? What was it central forecast? What

:10:01. > :10:04.the Institute of fiscal... I'm asking you about the Treasury

:10:05. > :10:07.because that is your Government's department. I am asking you about

:10:08. > :10:11.apples, you answer about oranges. What was the central forecast for

:10:12. > :10:16.recession in the Treasury's short-term report? What I'm telling

:10:17. > :10:20.you is that this budget George Osborne is setting up with Alistair

:10:21. > :10:24.Darling is based on the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimate, which

:10:25. > :10:27.was a ?20 billion to ?40 billion impact on the public finances and

:10:28. > :10:31.George is quite right to take the mid-range, 30 billion to dock there

:10:32. > :10:35.is to be a mid-range impact on the public finances. It would mean

:10:36. > :10:44.increased taxes and it would mean having to cut spending. The Treasury

:10:45. > :10:48.said it would go down by 0.4% over a year. Nobody wanted to go down,

:10:49. > :10:54.obviously, but why does a shallow recession, the shallowest since

:10:55. > :10:58.1956, of zero .4%, result in this massive measurement and tax rises

:10:59. > :11:04.and spending cuts amounting to ?30 billion? Explain that. You are using

:11:05. > :11:07.this word punishment. What George Osborne and Alistair Darling do,

:11:08. > :11:10.united together, the first time they have spoken together as one on a

:11:11. > :11:13.public platform, is to say there will be an impact on the public

:11:14. > :11:16.finances and when the Chancellor sees the impact on the public

:11:17. > :11:19.finances, he or she has to act and they have to make tough decisions

:11:20. > :11:24.and those tough decisions will include raising taxes or cutting

:11:25. > :11:27.spending. I was trying to work out why this response would be required,

:11:28. > :11:31.given how shallow the Treasury said the recession would be. In terms of

:11:32. > :11:37.the impact, you've seen Rolls-Royce today talking about the potential

:11:38. > :11:40.impact on one of our most successful Manufacturing completes. We've seen

:11:41. > :11:45.BT yesterday telling its 80,000 boys the kind of impact it would have.

:11:46. > :11:48.The real point is, you can bring up different surveys and say, what

:11:49. > :11:53.about this, what about that? The two key points are, everybody knows

:11:54. > :11:56.there will be an economic shock and George Osborne is saying, the second

:11:57. > :12:00.key point, is that means there will have to be an emergency budget, we

:12:01. > :12:04.will have to address levels of spending levels of taxes to get the

:12:05. > :12:07.budget by contract. How would you get that emergency budget through?

:12:08. > :12:14.There isn't a majority in the Commons for it. I haven't seen the

:12:15. > :12:18.names on the letter. 57 Conservative MPs described Mr Osborne's position

:12:19. > :12:21.as untenable. There is no majority in parliament for this budget,

:12:22. > :12:26.therefore the budget wouldn't get through. What George Osborne is

:12:27. > :12:29.saying is this is the kind of budget that you would have to expect if we

:12:30. > :12:35.beat. I think it is a perfectly valid thing for a Chancellor,

:12:36. > :12:41.somebody who has been Chancellor for six years. Unemployment fell again

:12:42. > :12:46.today. A lot of what George Osborne has done... Address my point. You

:12:47. > :12:52.only have a majority of under 16, at times it is under 12. 87 Tory MPs

:12:53. > :12:57.and rising regard this threat as untenable. They will not vote for

:12:58. > :13:01.it. -- 57. Labour is not going to vote for it, I assume, we will find

:13:02. > :13:06.out from John Mann. You will not get this budget through. It is an empty

:13:07. > :13:12.threat. It is not an empty threat. How would you get it through

:13:13. > :13:16.Parliament? After a Leave vote, if there is, God forbid, a Leave vote,

:13:17. > :13:19.Parliament would have to reconvene, the Chancellor will have to set out

:13:20. > :13:24.what he thinks the risks are going to be. He would be Chancellor, will

:13:25. > :13:28.he? There will have to be a budget proposed by the Chancellor. At that

:13:29. > :13:32.point, MPs will have to very much decide what their duty is. Is their

:13:33. > :13:35.duty to help get the economy back contract, given the economic

:13:36. > :13:42.shock... Could you explain the logic... Or is it simple to say, we

:13:43. > :13:45.are going to be a roadblock? Could you explain the economic logic, give

:13:46. > :13:48.me any major economist in the world who would then this was a response,

:13:49. > :13:52.that if we are heading to recession as a result of leaving, which is the

:13:53. > :13:56.Chancellor's scenario, we would go into recession, what is the economic

:13:57. > :14:04.logic is a recession stares us in the face at we raise tax and cut

:14:05. > :14:07.spending? As I said earlier, the Chancellor is someone who has Stuart

:14:08. > :14:12.did the public finances for the last six years. We see one of those

:14:13. > :14:16.results today with 20,000 fall in an employment. We've seen long-term

:14:17. > :14:20.unemployment fall significantly and that's because he did get the public

:14:21. > :14:22.finances... But what is the economic logic of raising taxes and cutting

:14:23. > :14:27.spending as we are heading into recession? He balanced the budget

:14:28. > :14:34.over the last six years, or at least significantly... Excuse me, he's

:14:35. > :14:37.balanced the budget? Significantly reduced our deficits because he had

:14:38. > :14:43.to raise some taxes and he had to cut... He slowed down the spending.

:14:44. > :14:46.Excuse me, Ed Vaizey. You may be rewriting the future, we won't know

:14:47. > :14:50.until we reach there, but you can't be allowed to rewrite the past. He

:14:51. > :14:54.actually slowed down the spending cuts because we were in such a

:14:55. > :14:59.situation and instead of balancing the budget by 2015, which was his

:15:00. > :15:03.promise, he gave us an ?80 billion deficit. So I ask again, can you

:15:04. > :15:07.name any credible economist, because Remain is very keen to quote

:15:08. > :15:12.mainstream economists, who would think that slashing spending and

:15:13. > :15:15.increasing tax would be a credible response to a recession? No doubt

:15:16. > :15:19.economists might pile in after this, as they piled on on this whole issue

:15:20. > :15:23.of whether we should leave the EU. And when I was last on this

:15:24. > :15:27.programme, you asked Kate Hoey to name any credible economist who

:15:28. > :15:33.could say that leaving the EU would be good for our economy. So you are

:15:34. > :15:40.bringing out Kate Hoey. I am asking you, can you name... I am asking

:15:41. > :15:45.you, can you name an economist that thinks this would be a... Don't try

:15:46. > :15:50.and filibuster. You did it earlier and it didn't go down too well. Just

:15:51. > :15:53.answer this question. Name and economist that thinks that Osborne's

:15:54. > :15:57.punishment budget would be the correct response.

:15:58. > :16:05.You know that when George took decisions about cutting spending and

:16:06. > :16:12.raising taxes, organisations like the IMF told him he was playing with

:16:13. > :16:17.fire. They came round and said what George Osborne did was correct. Let

:16:18. > :16:21.me see if I can get an answer to this question dash in a manifesto,

:16:22. > :16:28.you promised a referendum. He also promised more money for the NHS, you

:16:29. > :16:32.also promised not to raise VAT or income tax or national insurer and

:16:33. > :16:38.is. But you never anywhere said in the manifesto, but we can't keep any

:16:39. > :16:45.of these promises if you vote to leave in the referendum. So it was a

:16:46. > :16:48.false prospectus, wasn't it? The prospectus was to hold the

:16:49. > :16:53.referendum, which was a manifesto promise. I have said that. In the

:16:54. > :16:59.current state of our ability to manage the economy with the state it

:17:00. > :17:03.is in now with us as a member of the European Union and trading freely

:17:04. > :17:07.with the market of 500 million, we can do the things we have done. You

:17:08. > :17:13.never told us that, there is nowhere in the manifesto that all these

:17:14. > :17:19.major promises are predicated on as a voting, in your view, the right

:17:20. > :17:22.way on the referendum. There are issues in the manifesto you cannot

:17:23. > :17:28.foresee. David Cameron had to carry out his successful negotiation. It

:17:29. > :17:36.was in the manifesto. You promised a referendum. He has secured our

:17:37. > :17:47.vision for Britain in the European Union. Would anybody in the Remain

:17:48. > :17:52.vote for a budget like this post the referendum? It is not a proposed

:17:53. > :17:56.budget, it is a press stunned by George Osborne and rather silly one.

:17:57. > :18:00.John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor says, Labour would not

:18:01. > :18:07.vote, Labour would be against it, I would assume. I think we can take it

:18:08. > :18:13.for granted, the SNP would vote against it. Almost 60 Tory MPs are

:18:14. > :18:19.rising, would vote against it. It is a nonsense, Ed Vaizey. Sorry, I

:18:20. > :18:24.thought you are still asking John. How would you get it through? The

:18:25. > :18:33.Chancellor would come to the Commons after a vote to Leave, God forbid,

:18:34. > :18:38.people would see the impact on the economy and the Commons would have

:18:39. > :18:40.to take a view on whether it is important to get the budget back on

:18:41. > :18:46.track and the national finances back on track given the new and dangerous

:18:47. > :18:51.situation. John, why was Alistair Darling associating himself with

:18:52. > :18:57.this this morning? Desperation, last attempt to shore up the vote. I am

:18:58. > :19:02.hearing, even in Scotland, the vote in many constituencies may be going

:19:03. > :19:09.for Leave, even in Scotland. That would be a surprise. That is what I

:19:10. > :19:14.am hearing. Alistair Darling was not representing the Labour Party this

:19:15. > :19:18.morning, to your understanding? Clearly not, if it was someone

:19:19. > :19:21.representing the Labour Party, it would have been John McDonnell. So

:19:22. > :19:26.he was representing Alistair Darling? Yes, and his judgment on

:19:27. > :19:33.this is wrong. It is desperate politics trying to build up this

:19:34. > :19:36.project fear even more. It is not working, it is nonsense. It is

:19:37. > :19:42.almost a classic illustration of what nonsense it is. The Chancellor

:19:43. > :19:50.this morning on BBC, implied it was a consensus, and he used Alistair

:19:51. > :19:56.Darling's position that Labour and Conservative said the same thing. I

:19:57. > :20:03.am asking you, I know you don't want me to, but that is why I am

:20:04. > :20:10.continuing. I feel it is a bit unbalanced. You are the one that the

:20:11. > :20:12.questions to answer. He said we have a Labour Chancellor, Conservative

:20:13. > :20:18.Chancellor and it was a broad view of what we had to do. Now we hear

:20:19. > :20:22.from the Shadow Chancellor, we wouldn't vote for this. It has

:20:23. > :20:26.crashed and burned on take-off. He was standing with the Labour

:20:27. > :20:30.Chancellor in the last Labour government, when Labour used to win

:20:31. > :20:35.elections, who had to handle an economy in crisis following the

:20:36. > :20:38.banking crash. Alistair Darling is a credible figure who knows what it is

:20:39. > :20:48.like when you are facing an economic shock. He says, this is exactly...

:20:49. > :20:55.This is exactly what I would expect. I don't know what John McDonnell's

:20:56. > :22:20.position is. We have just been told. There is this peculiar mindset from

:22:21. > :22:31.Jeremy Corbyn where he won't share a platform

:22:32. > :22:36.There will be more money spent on the NHS if we leave. There was a

:22:37. > :22:43.consensus perhaps for the first time. Would be ?100 million over

:22:44. > :22:48.?350 million that vote the grating as the amount of money that is spent

:22:49. > :22:54.and sent to Brussels every week? It all depends who is in power and who

:22:55. > :23:00.makes the decision. What would you do? I would be looking to Spencer

:23:01. > :23:04.Gifford and sufficient money, which would be under 100 million, on

:23:05. > :23:07.putting money back into the NHS, getting into the hospital deficits,

:23:08. > :23:13.recruiting nurses, getting nurses bursaries, and adding moneyback

:23:14. > :23:16.international health service, would be my priority and if that money

:23:17. > :23:21.becomes available, that's what I would do. Or you think this is an

:23:22. > :23:25.alternative manifesto and they shouldn't be putting this board?

:23:26. > :23:28.Let's look at Labour on immigration because you have put a lot about

:23:29. > :23:32.immigration. It does look as if Labour is panicking as much as the

:23:33. > :23:36.Conservatives. We've had Tom Watson, the devil do bid, saying there would

:23:37. > :23:44.be moves, proposals, to curb the free movement of people. -- Tom

:23:45. > :23:48.Watson the Deputy Leader. Poor I called for it in the last

:23:49. > :23:57.Parliament. The problem is, you can't do it because the EU refuses.

:23:58. > :24:00.On whose authority is he saying it? Go but not the Labour Party because

:24:01. > :24:05.it is not what Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonell think. You would have

:24:06. > :24:08.to as Tom Watson. I'm not privy to their discussions but I agree with

:24:09. > :24:14.the principle of what Tom Watson and others have said. However, the

:24:15. > :24:18.problem with that is that the EU rules do not and I were to happen,

:24:19. > :24:24.so the issue for all of us is going to be, whatever the vote, what do we

:24:25. > :24:29.do afterwards on the Friday? And if it is the bob, we have that

:24:30. > :24:34.opportunity. Let's go straight over to the Commons to speak to the

:24:35. > :24:40.shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Seema Malhotra. Let me

:24:41. > :24:46.come to you straightaway. You have heard the Chancellor with what has

:24:47. > :24:49.been called a punishment budget. If we vote to leave and the Chancellor

:24:50. > :24:54.came forward with a budget like that, would Labour vote for it or

:24:55. > :24:56.not? Hello, Andrew. We have been very clear that we won't be

:24:57. > :25:03.supporting a budget that sees cuts to the NHS, cuts to working people's

:25:04. > :25:09.support. We don't believe that a Tory Brexit and then an emergency

:25:10. > :25:13.budget is going to give people the reassurance that there is going to

:25:14. > :25:17.be a brighter future at all with Brexit. What we are saying, and we

:25:18. > :25:22.are calling on people today, with our opposition day, to say that

:25:23. > :25:27.there is a brighter future if we stay in the EU. That is absolutely

:25:28. > :25:32.where we need to be. I understand that that is your position. Can I

:25:33. > :25:38.just clarify, because Alistair Darling, former Labour Chancellor,

:25:39. > :25:43.appeared with George Osborne as the outline of this post Brexit budget

:25:44. > :25:47.was announced. Can I take it that Mr Darling was not represented the

:25:48. > :25:53.Labour Party by being with Mr Osborne on that? Lube the context of

:25:54. > :25:56.this is very clear. This is the same warning that the IFF and others

:25:57. > :26:01.brought in, that there would be a hole in our budget... I asked you

:26:02. > :26:05.about Mr Darling. It would be nice to get announced that it was he

:26:06. > :26:08.speaking just for himself or did he in any way represent the Labour

:26:09. > :26:13.Party? He's talking in terms of how we would need to address, and the

:26:14. > :26:18.country would be to address, a hole in public funding finances. But what

:26:19. > :26:22.we've been saying is that we would not be voting for more cuts, so what

:26:23. > :26:26.we need to do, and the message that we want to give, is that if you want

:26:27. > :26:31.security and you want prosperity and you don't want to do self-inflicted

:26:32. > :26:36.damage to our economy... You said that. I've been trying to get an

:26:37. > :26:40.answer to my question. I'm not getting answers from Ed Vaizey and

:26:41. > :26:43.I'm not getting answers from you. So please give some respect our

:26:44. > :26:47.audience who are voting next Thursday and only ask you one more

:26:48. > :26:50.time, was Alistair Darling just being for himself by being alongside

:26:51. > :26:56.Osborne or did he represent the Labour Party? We have said very

:26:57. > :27:00.clearly, Andrew, and I'll just say this again... No, don't say it

:27:01. > :27:05.again, just answer the question. It is important that you answer the

:27:06. > :27:09.question. The context is a new. All right, well, you're not going to

:27:10. > :27:13.answer the question. I'm sorry, Seema Malhotra. I've had enough. You

:27:14. > :27:17.are not answering the question, so let's not waste our time with any

:27:18. > :27:21.more of this. Is it going to go on like this? When is the referendum?

:27:22. > :27:25.Next Thursday. Couldn't come soon enough!

:27:26. > :27:26.Now, today is our last PMQs programme

:27:27. > :27:30.and you might be wondering, what could have changed when we come

:27:31. > :27:33.Clearly not politicians answering the question.

:27:34. > :27:35.Will it still be David Cameron vs Jeremy Corbyn?

:27:36. > :27:40.Will the BBC still be able to afford the huge budget for JoCo's graphics?

:27:41. > :27:44.Will Ed Vaizey be here in the studio...again?

:27:45. > :27:55.I keep coming back for this punishment! It is like a Russian

:27:56. > :27:56.doll. If you just answer the questions, I wouldn't need to be

:27:57. > :27:57.rude. Well, you can be sure there's one

:27:58. > :28:03.thing that will stay the same regardless of whether we vote

:28:04. > :28:09.to leave or remain - And that's because we've got a job

:28:10. > :28:14.lot of them stacked in boxes So if you want to be

:28:15. > :28:24.in with the chance of winning this historic mug, which is actually just

:28:25. > :28:27.the same as all the others, all you have to do is tell us

:28:28. > :28:35.when this happened. For South Africans to trade together

:28:36. > :28:47.to celebrate the birth of democracy. We've been praying long

:28:48. > :28:53.enough for it, haven't we? To be in with a chance of winning

:28:54. > :29:59.a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz

:30:00. > :30:08.email address: Entries must arrive by 12:30pm today

:30:09. > :30:17.and you can see the full terms and conditions on our website.

:30:18. > :30:24.It's coming up to midday. It is a beautiful summer's des. There won't

:30:25. > :30:27.be a Primus is questions next week because of a referendum. Laura

:30:28. > :30:30.Coombs Boadicea. I would suggest that a normal PMQs, the Labour

:30:31. > :30:33.leader would stand up and say, if the Chancellor things he can do this

:30:34. > :30:37.kind of budget rose Brexit, he's got another thing coming, but can Mr

:30:38. > :30:42.Corbyn do that, since he is nominally on the Remain site? I'm

:30:43. > :30:44.not sure. I think there is something else there because we know that

:30:45. > :30:46.Jeremy Corbyn often want to do his own subjects! They're already under

:30:47. > :31:01.way. We will come back to you. I know the whole house will join

:31:02. > :31:06.with me incentive condolences to the family and friends of those killed

:31:07. > :31:09.in the in Orlando on Sunday. This attack, along with the callous

:31:10. > :31:13.murder of a French policeman on Monday, is a stark remind of the

:31:14. > :31:17.challenge we face to defeat the poisonous ideology of Daesh both

:31:18. > :31:20.online and on our streets. I believe that together with our friends, our

:31:21. > :31:26.allies and our common values, we will prevail. This morning I had

:31:27. > :31:29.meetings with ministerial colleagues and added just two duties in this

:31:30. > :31:33.House, I shall have further such meetings later today. Thank you, Mr

:31:34. > :31:37.Speaker. I share the Prime Minister's sentiments in the Sabet

:31:38. > :31:42.is expressed to the victims, families and friends of those in

:31:43. > :31:49.Orlando. The Australian parent company of a United Kingdom company

:31:50. > :31:51.who see Europe as a major market expansion have put on hold their

:31:52. > :31:55.plans to build a factory in the enterprise zone on the South

:31:56. > :31:58.Lowestoft industrial estate. Lowestoft has enormous potential as

:31:59. > :32:04.a centre for serving the European maritime market but does the Prime

:32:05. > :32:08.Minister share my concern that this opportunity would unnecessarily be

:32:09. > :32:17.placed at risk if the UK beats the EU? -- leaves. I share his concern.

:32:18. > :32:18.I well remember visiting his constituency and seeing what a

:32:19. > :32:23.thriving business location Lowestoft is. He is right that many companies

:32:24. > :32:27.come to Britain and invest in Britain for many reasons but one of

:32:28. > :32:31.the most important is access to the single market of 500 million

:32:32. > :32:34.customers. Next week we have the opportunity to put our place in that

:32:35. > :32:38.single market beyond doubt and I hope that we wake up on June 24

:32:39. > :32:42.knowing that businesses are going to invest more in our country, create

:32:43. > :32:46.more jobs in our country, see more growth in our country, because that

:32:47. > :32:50.will help the families of our country and the unemployment figures

:32:51. > :32:52.today, another welcome fall in unemployment, we could see continued

:32:53. > :32:59.progress. Lets see our country moving forward. I concur and join

:33:00. > :33:04.with the Prime Minister in his remarks about the terrible deaths in

:33:05. > :33:09.Orlando. On Monday I joined a vigil of thousands of LGBT people in Soho

:33:10. > :33:13.in London to mourn the deaths of the 49 and also I want to say, we say

:33:14. > :33:16.thank you to all those all over this country who attended vigils on

:33:17. > :33:20.Monday night to show their concern and their horror about it. Quite

:33:21. > :33:24.simply, we defeat such atrocities through our love and our solidarity

:33:25. > :33:29.and we need to send that message out. Three years ago, there was a

:33:30. > :33:34.cross-party agreement for the lamentation of section 40 of the

:33:35. > :33:38.Crime and Courts Bill and to proceed with Leveson to once prosecutors

:33:39. > :33:42.were concluded. The Prime Minister will be aware that today there is a

:33:43. > :33:45.lobby of Parliament by the victims of phone hacking. The Prime Minister

:33:46. > :33:50.said a few years ago that we all did too much cosying up to Rupert

:33:51. > :33:54.Murdoch. Some of his Tory Brexit colleagues are certainly cosying up

:33:55. > :33:57.to Rupert Murdoch at the moment but will the Prime Minister give a

:33:58. > :34:01.commitment today that he will meet the victims of press intrusion and

:34:02. > :34:06.assure them that he will keep his promise on this? Let me again echo

:34:07. > :34:13.what he said about the Orlando bombings. In terms of the Leveson

:34:14. > :34:17.issue, we said that we'd make a decision about a second stage of

:34:18. > :34:20.this inquiry once the criminal investigations and prosecutions were

:34:21. > :34:26.out of the weighted top they are still continuing and so that is the

:34:27. > :34:30.situation. -- out of the way. I have met with victims of press intrusion

:34:31. > :34:33.and I'm happy to do so again. I think people can accuse me of many

:34:34. > :34:38.things but cosying up to Rupert Murdoch is not one of them. My

:34:39. > :34:42.question was, will he meet the victims of phone hacking? I hope you

:34:43. > :34:47.will because they deserve it anti-bra missed that he would meet

:34:48. > :34:52.them. A major thunder of the Leave campaign said, and I quote, "If it

:34:53. > :34:58.were up to me, I'd privatise the National Health Service". The

:34:59. > :35:02.honourable member for Uxbridge said, "If people have to pay for NHS

:35:03. > :35:07.services they will value them all". Both he and the honourable member

:35:08. > :35:12.for Surrey Heath are members of a government that has put the NHS into

:35:13. > :35:20.record deficit. These people are now masquerading as the saviours of the

:35:21. > :35:24.NHS. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Did the honourable member for Totnes get

:35:25. > :35:27.it right when she rejected the duplicity of this argument in the

:35:28. > :35:35.Leave campaign and decided to join the Remain campaign? I was delighted

:35:36. > :35:38.with what my right honourable... My honourable friend, the Member for

:35:39. > :35:42.Totnes, said about changing her mind, which is a brave thing for

:35:43. > :35:46.politicians to do, and saying that she thought that the NHS would be

:35:47. > :35:52.safer if we remain inside a reformed EU. I believe that very profoundly,

:35:53. > :35:55.because the key to a strong NHS is a strong economy and I think there

:35:56. > :36:00.can't be any doubt that nine out of ten economists, the governor of the

:36:01. > :36:03.Bank of England, the IMF, the OECD, all of these other organisations,

:36:04. > :36:09.saying our economy will be stronger and it is a strong economy that

:36:10. > :36:13.delivers a strong NHS. Last week, the Prime Minister gave a welcome

:36:14. > :36:18.commitment to the closing of the loophole in the posting of workers

:36:19. > :36:22.directive. We will hold him to that but we are concerned about the

:36:23. > :36:27.exploitation of migrant workers and the undercutting of wages in this

:36:28. > :36:32.country as a result of that. On that issue, will the Prime Minister today

:36:33. > :36:35.commit to the outlawing of the practice of agencies that only

:36:36. > :36:41.advertise abroad for jobs that are in reality jobs in this country?

:36:42. > :36:45.First of all, he and I absolutely agree about the evils of Modern

:36:46. > :36:47.Slavery Bill that is why this government passed the Modern Slavery

:36:48. > :36:51.Bill with all-party support. We've doubled the fines that can be put on

:36:52. > :36:54.companies for exploiting labour in this way and we have strengthened

:36:55. > :36:59.the gang masters licensing authority and they have commenced and carried

:37:00. > :37:03.out a number of prosecutions, including in the eastern and, where

:37:04. > :37:07.I was yesterday, and so we continue to take action on every level to

:37:08. > :37:10.make sure people are paid their wages they should be paid and that

:37:11. > :37:16.protections are there on the minimum wage and now on a national living

:37:17. > :37:20.wage. -- including in the East of England. I think all of those are

:37:21. > :37:23.vital and we will continue with those measures. I think people are

:37:24. > :37:27.entitled to a fair day's pay for a fair day's what. My question was

:37:28. > :37:31.about outlawing the practice of advertising by agencies only in

:37:32. > :37:35.other countries. Tens of thousands of EU and other people who have

:37:36. > :37:39.migrated to Britain work in our public services and do a fantastic

:37:40. > :37:43.job. Many people in Britain are also concerned about immigration and

:37:44. > :37:47.their local communities. Surely what communities need is practical

:37:48. > :37:51.solutions like the migrant impact fund set up by Gordon Brown when he

:37:52. > :37:55.was Prime Minister to deal with the extra pressure on housing, schools

:37:56. > :37:56.and hospitals. Will the Prime Minister now

:37:57. > :38:03.concede that it was a mistake to abolish that fund and will he work

:38:04. > :38:08.with us to reinstate it as a matter of urgency, to give support to those

:38:09. > :38:12.communities that are facing problems on school places and doctors'

:38:13. > :38:18.surgeries? He is absolutely right. In answer to the question about

:38:19. > :38:22.employment agencies that only advertise for overseas workers, we

:38:23. > :38:26.are looking at Battersea if we can ban that practice because we don't

:38:27. > :38:30.believe that is right. Of course, the answer to so many of these

:38:31. > :38:36.questions is actually to make sure we are training, educating and

:38:37. > :38:39.employing British people and getting member qualifications they need to

:38:40. > :38:43.take on the jobs that are economy is creating an today's unemployment

:38:44. > :38:46.figures are another reminder that. In terms of funds to help

:38:47. > :38:50.communities impacted by migration, we have a pledge in our manifesto,

:38:51. > :38:54.which we are looking forward to bringing forward, with a controlled

:38:55. > :38:58.migration fun to make sure we put money into communities where there

:38:59. > :39:01.are pressures because, of course, there are some pressures and we do

:39:02. > :39:04.need to address them and I'm happy that we will be able to work on a

:39:05. > :39:08.cross-party basis to do that it cos I've said many times, there are good

:39:09. > :39:11.ways of controlling migration and one of them is the rules we are

:39:12. > :39:15.bringing in so people don't get instant access to our welfare

:39:16. > :39:18.system, but there are bad ways of controlling immigration. Leaving the

:39:19. > :39:24.single market and wrecking our economy is certainly one of them.

:39:25. > :39:31.Today, a flotilla of boats is due to come along the Thames complaining

:39:32. > :39:36.fishing quotas are not going to the UK domestic fleet. My have not seen

:39:37. > :39:40.them yet, but presumably they are on their way. The Prime Minister will

:39:41. > :39:46.be aware that reforms made three years ago put the power back into

:39:47. > :39:51.the hands of member states and it is the UK Government that has given

:39:52. > :39:55.nearly two thirds of the English and Welsh fishing quotas to just three

:39:56. > :39:59.companies, excluding small fishing communities along the coasts. Can

:40:00. > :40:05.the Prime Minister stop blaming Brussels on this and tell our

:40:06. > :40:09.fishing communities what action he will take to allow them to continue

:40:10. > :40:17.their work and go further out in collect Kingfish? First of all, can

:40:18. > :40:20.I thank him for the reforms we carried through in the last

:40:21. > :40:26.Parliament and the honourable member was crucial in delivering those

:40:27. > :40:30.changes. What we have seen in the last five years is an increase in

:40:31. > :40:37.the value of the UK fishing industry of something like 20%. We export

:40:38. > :40:40.every year about one billion pounds worth of fish to the EU and there is

:40:41. > :40:44.no country in the world that has a trade agreement with the EU that

:40:45. > :40:50.doesn't involve tariffs, taxes on the sale of its fish. There is no

:40:51. > :40:55.way we would get a better deal on the outside than the deal we get on

:40:56. > :40:57.the outside. So working with fishing communities, working with fishermen

:40:58. > :41:02.and keeping the market open and make sure we manage our fish stocks

:41:03. > :41:08.locally and appropriately is part of our plan. His government still

:41:09. > :41:13.handed quotas over to three very large companies at the expense of

:41:14. > :41:18.small communities around Britain, I hope he reflects on that. Mr

:41:19. > :41:22.Speaker, with eight days to go before the referendum, the Labour

:41:23. > :41:28.position is, we will be voting to remain because it is the best way to

:41:29. > :41:33.protect families, protect jobs and protect public services. We would

:41:34. > :41:39.oppose any posed Brexit austerity budget, just as we have opposed any

:41:40. > :41:43.austerity budget put forward by this government. Will the Prime Minister

:41:44. > :41:49.take this opportunity to condemn the opportunism of 57 of his colleagues,

:41:50. > :41:55.who are pro-Leave, these are members who backed the bedroom tax, backed

:41:56. > :41:59.cutting disability benefits and cutting care for the elderly, who

:42:00. > :42:05.suddenly have now had a conversion to the anti-austerity movement. Does

:42:06. > :42:09.he have any message for them, does he have any message for them at all?

:42:10. > :42:15.What I would say to the right honourable gentleman, there are very

:42:16. > :42:20.few times when he and I are on the same side of an argument. This must

:42:21. > :42:25.say to people watching at home, when you have the leader of the Labour

:42:26. > :42:29.Party and almost all of the Labour Party, Conservative Government, the

:42:30. > :42:33.Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Ulster Unionists and the Scottish

:42:34. > :42:38.National Party old saying, we have huge disagreements, but on this

:42:39. > :42:42.vital issue, the best option for Britain is to vote to remain in a

:42:43. > :42:46.reformed European union, really says something. This is a huge choice for

:42:47. > :42:53.our country, choices have consequences. If we wake up on June

:42:54. > :43:00.the 24th and we have remained in, the economy can move forward. If we

:43:01. > :43:03.vote out, experts warn as we have a small economy, lesser wages and less

:43:04. > :43:08.tax receipts. That is why we would have to do have measures to address

:43:09. > :43:13.a huge hole in our public finances. Nobody wants to have an emergency

:43:14. > :43:17.budget, nobody wants to have cuts in public services. Nobody wants to

:43:18. > :43:22.have tax increases. But there is only one thing worse than not

:43:23. > :43:28.addressing a crisis in your public finances through a budget, and that

:43:29. > :43:33.is ignoring it. If you ignore a crisis, you see your economy go into

:43:34. > :43:41.a tailspin, confidence is reduced in the country. We can avoid all of

:43:42. > :43:49.this I voting Remain next week. Having recently undertaken a real

:43:50. > :44:04.I'll tour of my constituency, and Sam told -- sampled some of the

:44:05. > :44:09.nicest ales in the north, can I ask the Prime Minister to join me in

:44:10. > :44:13.nodding to the virtues and massive benefits to the economies from small

:44:14. > :44:18.and medium-size breweries from up and the country? Happy to agree with

:44:19. > :44:24.my honourable friend, having spent last weekend in Kent and yesterday

:44:25. > :44:29.in Bury St Edmunds, I agree a large quantity of real ale is one of the

:44:30. > :44:33.best ways to get through this gruelling referendum campaign. The

:44:34. > :44:36.British beer industry is in good health because of the duty cuts from

:44:37. > :44:44.the Chancellor, because of the microbe Ruhe tax regime. We have a

:44:45. > :44:48.lot of craft beer coming through and the brewers I am talking to and

:44:49. > :44:57.going to see, they want the single market open and they want to remain

:44:58. > :45:02.in. On Orlando and the deaths in France, we aren't these benches join

:45:03. > :45:06.with the condolences expressed by the Prime Minister and the Leader of

:45:07. > :45:11.the Opposition. We are now only a week away from the biggest question

:45:12. > :45:16.the UK has faced in a long time, and that is the continuing membership of

:45:17. > :45:20.the European Union. Exports, goods and services from the Scottish

:45:21. > :45:25.economy are massive important. Hundreds and thousands of jobs

:45:26. > :45:28.depend on them. Meanwhile, public services, including the NHS are

:45:29. > :45:34.supported by many hard-working people buy elsewhere in the European

:45:35. > :45:38.Union. Does the Prime Minister agree, if we want to protect jobs,

:45:39. > :45:46.public services, we must vote to remain in the European Union gesture

:45:47. > :45:51.Mark I do believe the most important arguments is about the future of our

:45:52. > :45:55.economy. It seems obvious you can listen to the experts or make a

:45:56. > :46:00.common-sense argument. Today we have access to a market of 500 million

:46:01. > :46:03.people. For an economy like Scotland, such a big exporting

:46:04. > :46:08.economy, there is no way we would get a better deal with the single

:46:09. > :46:12.market on the outside than we get on the inside. If we left we would seek

:46:13. > :46:17.our economy suffer, jobs suffer, livelihood suffer. It is plain

:46:18. > :46:22.common sense. I agree with him, for jobs and livelihoods, we should

:46:23. > :46:25.remain in. There is a consequence the public finances, if our economy

:46:26. > :46:28.is doing less well, public finances would be doing less well and that

:46:29. > :46:36.would have consequences for Scotland. Make a raise that with the

:46:37. > :46:38.Prime Minister? We have learned from a Conservative Chancellor of the

:46:39. > :46:44.Exchequer and a former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer, there

:46:45. > :46:49.would be likely to be 30 billion pounds in cuts to public services or

:46:50. > :46:55.tax rises, where there to be a Brexit vote. What impact would that

:46:56. > :47:01.have on public services in Scotland? Please, can we learn now before we

:47:02. > :47:07.vote? What impact would it have on the budget in Scotland that pays for

:47:08. > :47:10.the NHS in Scotland, schools in Scotland, local government and key

:47:11. > :47:18.public services. Is it not another reason why we must vote to remain in

:47:19. > :47:21.the European Union? What I would say to the right honourable gentleman,

:47:22. > :47:26.these figures are not based on what the Chancellor of the Exchequer is

:47:27. > :47:32.saying, they are based on what the Institute for Fiscal Studies is

:47:33. > :47:36.saying. They are talking about at 20 to 40 billion hole in our public

:47:37. > :47:43.finances if regs it went ahead. These are organisations quoted in

:47:44. > :47:47.this House against the government because they are respected for their

:47:48. > :47:54.independence. Decisions to cut public spending in the UK budget do

:47:55. > :47:57.have an impact on Scotland. And to anyone who says, these warnings of

:47:58. > :48:02.course, they could be wrong, they could be inaccurate, this is an

:48:03. > :48:06.uncomfortable point to make to the right honourable gentleman, of

:48:07. > :48:09.course there were warnings about the oil price before the Scottish

:48:10. > :48:19.referendum. It turned out to be worse than the experts warned. Thank

:48:20. > :48:23.you Mr Speaker. Since the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, many

:48:24. > :48:29.of my constituents are worried that remaining in the EU increases the

:48:30. > :48:32.risk of terrorism. Fear is exacerbated by the disgraceful

:48:33. > :48:37.comments of people like Nigel Farage. Does my right honourable

:48:38. > :48:42.friend agree, security services are helped by the EU and not hindered? I

:48:43. > :48:48.would say directly to my honourable friend, I have done this job for six

:48:49. > :48:51.years, working with the Home Secretary, I have seen how closely

:48:52. > :48:56.our intelligence and security services work with other services

:48:57. > :49:00.around the world. Of course we keep ourselves safe by investing in

:49:01. > :49:03.anti-terrorism policing and keep ourselves safe by working with the

:49:04. > :49:09.Americans and the partnership. I am in no doubt increasing extent of

:49:10. > :49:15.intelligence exchange that takes place through the EU is of direct

:49:16. > :49:18.benefit. It is not just you need a border, you need information and

:49:19. > :49:24.intelligence to police the border properly. We are seeing an enormous

:49:25. > :49:28.amount of exchange about criminal records, passenger name records.

:49:29. > :49:34.Outside the EU we can try and negotiate our way back into these

:49:35. > :49:40.agreements, but right now we are in them and we are driving them.

:49:41. > :49:44.Knowsley is expected to receive ?10 million in EU funding over the next

:49:45. > :49:52.three years. EU funding has helped attract his Mrs to the borough like

:49:53. > :49:56.QVC which created 2500 jobs. Isn't it the case of this important

:49:57. > :50:01.funding from the EU could be lost if we vote to leave the European Union?

:50:02. > :50:07.The honourable gentleman makes an important point. Which is, if you

:50:08. > :50:10.look at these independent, economic reports, they said there is no

:50:11. > :50:17.financial saving from leaving the EU. The Institute for Fiscal Studies

:50:18. > :50:21.said, we can include leaving the EU would not leave more money to spend

:50:22. > :50:25.on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services or

:50:26. > :50:29.taxing more or borrowing more. I would argue there is a big dividend

:50:30. > :50:34.from remaining inside the EU and we will start to feel it next Friday as

:50:35. > :50:38.companies could see Britain have made a decision and job creators and

:50:39. > :50:43.international investors would know Britain meant business and they

:50:44. > :50:55.would be investing in our country, but there is no interest in leaving.

:50:56. > :51:02.The number of working households has declined since 2010, will he focus

:51:03. > :51:06.on more jobs and a growing economy? The most important thing we can do

:51:07. > :51:11.for parents in our country is to help them get a job, earn a living

:51:12. > :51:16.and provide for their family. In our life chances strategy, measuring

:51:17. > :51:20.worthlessness and school attainment are important in helping to ensure

:51:21. > :51:34.we continue to help lift children out of poverty. Mr Speaker, two

:51:35. > :51:40.German men run businesses in Scotland, but they cannot vote next

:51:41. > :51:43.week. They leave for France on Sunday and are considering leaving

:51:44. > :51:49.permanently if we exit the EU. Will the Prime Minister join my call for

:51:50. > :51:54.them and others in a similar situation to stay, as they are

:51:55. > :52:00.highly valued? There are many people who come to this country, work hard

:52:01. > :52:05.and make a contribution and help to build communities. It is important

:52:06. > :52:10.to get the numbers into the spec. 5% of the population are EU nationals,

:52:11. > :52:17.Italians, Germans, Polish and the rest of it. Only five people in the

:52:18. > :52:24.street will be EU nationals. Look at our NHS, 50,000 EU nationals, care

:52:25. > :52:28.homes, 60,000 EU nationals helping to look after elderly relatives with

:52:29. > :52:32.dementia and other conditions as they come to the end of their life.

:52:33. > :52:37.We do need to make sure people who come here are working and making a

:52:38. > :52:45.contribution, but we should celebrate the contribution they

:52:46. > :52:49.make. Given the government's recent enthusiasm for making forecasts and

:52:50. > :52:56.predictions, can the Prime Minister please tell the House, in which year

:52:57. > :53:01.will we meet our manifesto commitment to reduce immigration to

:53:02. > :53:07.the tens of thousands? At the last year for which EU migration was in

:53:08. > :53:10.Allen 's, the number of EU nationals and British nationals leaving our

:53:11. > :53:14.shores to work in Europe and the number of EU nationals coming to

:53:15. > :53:19.live and work here, the last year that was in balance was 2008. I

:53:20. > :53:23.would say to my honourable friend, yes, we need to do more to control

:53:24. > :53:27.migration from outside the EU, and we are doing that with the closure

:53:28. > :53:31.of bogus colleges and other measures. We are doing more inside

:53:32. > :53:39.the EU, not least saying people who come here, if they don't get a job

:53:40. > :53:42.after six months, they have to leave. If they were, they have to

:53:43. > :53:45.contribute for four years before they get full access to the welfare

:53:46. > :53:48.system. Those are big changes and sensible ways of controlling

:53:49. > :53:51.immigration. A nonsense of always pulling out of the single market,

:53:52. > :53:56.damaging jobs and damaging the economy and having to explain to our

:53:57. > :54:02.constituents why we have self impose a recession on our economy. Many

:54:03. > :54:05.from my constituency of Swansea are struggling to make ends meet. The

:54:06. > :54:11.World Trade Organisation say if we leave the EU, we could face a major

:54:12. > :54:16.tariffs on trade. We would have to re-negotiate over 160 trade

:54:17. > :54:21.agreements. Does the Prime Minister agree with me, leaving the EU would

:54:22. > :54:27.hit hard-working families the most, raising the cost of living and it is

:54:28. > :54:32.to take a risk to take? The honourable lady is right. It is

:54:33. > :54:35.always the poorest who will get hit hardest if an economy suffers a

:54:36. > :54:42.recession. There are two ways the cost of living can be impacted. If

:54:43. > :54:47.we lead the single market, go to WTO rules, we would have tariffs imposed

:54:48. > :54:51.on the goods they sell to Europe. But also if the pound was to fall,

:54:52. > :54:56.which many independent experts forecast, the cost of living rises,

:54:57. > :55:00.shopping rises, the cost of holidays rises. It is not worth the risk, we

:55:01. > :55:09.should not risk it, we should keep our country safe. Following the

:55:10. > :55:14.Chancellor's welcome announcement to launch the new Thames Estuary 2050

:55:15. > :55:19.growth commission, could the Prime Minister outline his hopes for how

:55:20. > :55:22.the commission's focus will deliver the infrastructure and economic

:55:23. > :55:29.development that will allow North Kent to prosper, including my

:55:30. > :55:34.wonderful constituency of Rochester? Always, whenever I get a question

:55:35. > :55:37.from my honourable friend, I remember how grateful I am she is

:55:38. > :55:47.sitting for Rochester and Strood. Happy days. In terms of the 2050

:55:48. > :55:50.growth commission, the key areas are skills and infrastructure. There is

:55:51. > :55:53.a serious amount of money being committed to the infrastructure and

:55:54. > :55:57.we do need to look at things, including the lower Thames crossing,

:55:58. > :56:05.to make sure the economy in that region can make the most of its

:56:06. > :56:09.potential. 2500 people are employed in the ceramics industry in my

:56:10. > :56:13.constituency. Their jobs are dependent on EU trades and rights

:56:14. > :56:18.are protected by the EU social chapter and their town centres have

:56:19. > :56:21.been rebuilt with EU funds. With his friends in the Leave campaign

:56:22. > :56:32.producing more spin than a potter's wheel... Does the Prime Minister

:56:33. > :56:40.share my fear is that this by your's floors, a Brexit vote can leave is

:56:41. > :56:46.picking up the pieces of a broken economy the years to come. I am

:56:47. > :56:50.going to pinch that sound bite. The honourable lady is right, if we lead

:56:51. > :56:53.the single market and the European Union, the council president has

:56:54. > :56:58.said, the process probably takes two years. After that you have to

:56:59. > :57:01.negotiate a trade deal with the European Union. If it is a trade

:57:02. > :57:06.deal like Canada, it could take seven years. We are looking at a

:57:07. > :57:13.decade of uncertainty for the economy. On the ceramic industry, I

:57:14. > :57:16.am advised by my Parliamentary Private Secretary, who did do a

:57:17. > :57:24.worthwhile job of working in that industry before coming here... He

:57:25. > :57:28.may not be spinning wheels any more, but spinning for me very

:57:29. > :57:35.effectively! We exported billions of porcelain soup China and the EU and

:57:36. > :57:42.if we were outside the EU, there would be a 12% tax. I don't want us

:57:43. > :57:45.to hit British manufactures, car-makers, aeroplane makers, we

:57:46. > :57:48.should be investing in those industries and helping them support

:57:49. > :57:54.and not making the situation more difficult, which is what regs it

:57:55. > :58:07.would do. 30 years ago when I was a lad, my parents quit their jobs...

:58:08. > :58:11.30 years ago my parents quit their jobs and they founded a small

:58:12. > :58:16.manufacturing business around our kitchen table. Today, British

:58:17. > :58:20.manufacturers, particularly small businesses are worried. They are

:58:21. > :58:25.worried because if we leave the European Union, they will continue

:58:26. > :58:29.to make their products to common European standards. Because they

:58:30. > :58:35.value the free market. They value the single market and they value the

:58:36. > :58:40.export. They are aware the United Kingdom will have no say whatsoever

:58:41. > :58:44.in the formulation of those standards. And their competitive

:58:45. > :58:49.advantage will be destroyed. What advice does my right honourable

:58:50. > :58:52.friend have for my parents, for small businesses and for the

:58:53. > :59:00.millions of jobs that depends on them across the country washed your

:59:01. > :59:05.mark I always assumed my honourable friend was under 30, so I am

:59:06. > :59:09.shocked. But he makes an important point, if we were to leave we lose

:59:10. > :59:13.the seat around the table that sets the rules of the single market.

:59:14. > :59:18.Sometimes those rules can be annoying or burdensome, but they are

:59:19. > :59:25.the rules we have two meet. If you leave and you have no say over those

:59:26. > :59:30.rules, you'd don't gain control, you lose control. It is a crucial

:59:31. > :59:31.argument why the majority of small businesses back staying in EU, as

:59:32. > :59:46.well as a lot of larger as this is. That I endorse the comments and

:59:47. > :59:54.associate the SCOP about Paris and Orlando. Ironed assure the Prime

:59:55. > :59:59.Minister that the SDLP is behind him and his efforts to ensure a Remain

:00:00. > :00:08.vote but the Brexit campaigners have made our borders their resounding

:00:09. > :00:13.war cry and will when it comes to the only land border between the UK

:00:14. > :00:18.and the EU, we're told nothing will change. A critical economic change

:00:19. > :00:23.for Northern Ireland's voters in eight days... Camber primers to

:00:24. > :00:26.clarify this point and tell the people of Northern Ireland, what

:00:27. > :00:32.will become of the border if the UK votes to leave the EU? I thank him

:00:33. > :00:37.for his remarks about the Orlando shootings but on this issue, if we

:00:38. > :00:41.vote to stay in, we know what the situation is. We know that the

:00:42. > :00:45.Common travel area works, we know it can continue and everyone can have

:00:46. > :00:49.confidence in that. If we were to leave, and as the Leave campaigners

:00:50. > :00:52.want, make a big issue about our borders, then you've got a land

:00:53. > :00:57.border between Britain outside the EU and the Republic of Ireland

:00:58. > :01:02.inside the EU. And therefore you can only either have new border controls

:01:03. > :01:05.between the Republic and Northern Ireland or, which I would regret

:01:06. > :01:09.usually, you would have to have some sort of checks on people as they

:01:10. > :01:14.left Belfast or other parts of Northern Ireland to come to the rest

:01:15. > :01:18.of the United Kingdom. We can avoid these risks. There are so many risks

:01:19. > :01:21.here, risks to our children's jobs, risks Tony Hibbert in future, risks

:01:22. > :01:28.to our borders, risks to the unity of the UK. -- risks to our

:01:29. > :01:33.children's fugitive top I say avoid the risks and vowed to remain in the

:01:34. > :01:36.EU. Next week I will be visiting schools in my constituency to

:01:37. > :01:42.explain both sides of the EU argument to those who will be most

:01:43. > :01:45.heavily affected by a decision they cannot make. Does the Prime Minister

:01:46. > :01:49.have any words for these people for the Remain segment? I am grateful

:01:50. > :01:53.for his hard work. This is about that even if those people in those

:01:54. > :01:57.schools aren't able to vote, will affect their futures, and I hope

:01:58. > :02:00.they will talk to their parents and grandparents after being inspired by

:02:01. > :02:05.my honourable friend about wanting to grow up in a country with

:02:06. > :02:09.opportunity. We're bound to have more opportunity if we remain in a

:02:10. > :02:13.reformed EU with 27 other countries. I also think it goes to a point

:02:14. > :02:17.about what sort of country want our children to grow up in, not just one

:02:18. > :02:21.of economic and job of that unity is but one where our country is able to

:02:22. > :02:25.effect change and get things done in the world. We don't diminish

:02:26. > :02:31.ourselves inside the EU, we enhance the power of Britain and the

:02:32. > :02:39.greatness of our country. Old Bob Approximately 11,000 Marks Spencer

:02:40. > :02:44.is employees, many with more than 14 years' service, are about to get a

:02:45. > :02:49.serious pay cut. Cuts to Sunday pay, bank holiday and anti-social hours

:02:50. > :02:53.pay, all made on the back of the national living wage, means they

:02:54. > :02:58.will take home less next year than they do this year, with some losing

:02:59. > :03:04.up to ?2000. This is not just any pay cut, this is a big, fat Marks

:03:05. > :03:08.and Spencer pay cut. Does the Prime Minister agree with his Chancellor

:03:09. > :03:12.that cutting take home pay at M or anywhere else on the back of the

:03:13. > :03:18.national living wage is wrong and, if so, will he moved to close the

:03:19. > :03:21.loopholes that make this possible? Obviously, we want to see the

:03:22. > :03:25.national living wage leading through into the bar having higher take home

:03:26. > :03:29.pay, not lower take home pay, and we would urge all companies to make

:03:30. > :03:33.sure that is the case. I haven't seen the information about Marks

:03:34. > :03:37.Spencer but they know, like any retailer, that they need to attract

:03:38. > :03:41.and retain and motivate staff that they have and it's absolutely

:03:42. > :03:44.crucial in retail, particularly with all the competition with online,

:03:45. > :03:51.that they continue to do that, and they won't do that if they cut

:03:52. > :03:57.people's pay. I agree with the Prime Minister on Europe. When he said to

:03:58. > :04:01.the CBR on the 9th of November last year, and I quote, "Some people seem

:04:02. > :04:06.to say that Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK outside the

:04:07. > :04:10.EU, I don't think that is true," the argument isn't whether Britain could

:04:11. > :04:14.survive outside the EU, of course it could. So if, as I hope, despite the

:04:15. > :04:18.panic driven negativity from the Remain camp and Downing Street, the

:04:19. > :04:25.British people vote next week to become a free and independent nation

:04:26. > :04:29.again. Will my right honourable friend join me in embracing the

:04:30. > :04:35.optimism and opportunity for our country and our people that such a

:04:36. > :04:40.momentous decision would bring? I would say to my honourable friend,

:04:41. > :04:44.as I said at the CBI, of course Britain can survive outside the EU.

:04:45. > :04:49.Nobody is questioning that. The question is, how are we going to do

:04:50. > :04:53.best? How are we going to create the most jobs, the most investment, have

:04:54. > :04:58.the most opportunities our children, we'll do the greatest power in the

:04:59. > :05:02.world, get things done? And all those issues, stronger, safer,

:05:03. > :05:09.better off, the arguments are on the Remain aside. Could I associate

:05:10. > :05:12.myself and, indeed, all of my party across the country with the remarks

:05:13. > :05:19.he made earlier on about the killings in France and the brutal,

:05:20. > :05:23.phobic murders in Florida. The killer and his vicious, homophobic

:05:24. > :05:28.act do not speak for Islam. The wealthy Eve eat fuelling the Leave

:05:29. > :05:34.campaign will be an harmed by the inevitable hike in interest rates

:05:35. > :05:40.that will follow Britain's exit from the EU and the decline in sterling.

:05:41. > :05:45.The rate rise, however, will have a hit on millions of ordinary British

:05:46. > :05:48.people. It will push people to lose their homes through repossession and

:05:49. > :05:53.push low-income people further into crippling debt. Was he advises Tory

:05:54. > :05:57.Brexit colleagues that there is a long-term economic plan on offer, in

:05:58. > :06:02.which he can help those people who are hard-working families not to

:06:03. > :06:09.suffer? It is to vote Remain on Thursday. He and I are often on

:06:10. > :06:13.opposing sides of arguments but I think it says volumes about the

:06:14. > :06:16.breadth of the campaign to remain in a reformed EU that we have the

:06:17. > :06:22.Liberal Democrats, as well as the Labour Party, the Greens, the trades

:06:23. > :06:25.unions, and so many others, coming from different perspectives but all

:06:26. > :06:28.saying our economy will be better off so therefore families will be

:06:29. > :06:32.better off, our country will be better off, if we remain in, and

:06:33. > :06:36.he's absolutely right in what he says about interest rates. The last

:06:37. > :06:40.thing homeowners, home-buyers and our country needs is a hike in

:06:41. > :06:44.interest rates damaging our economy. I'm glad he's bought a long-term

:06:45. > :06:51.economic plan and that should have, as part of its plan, remaining in

:06:52. > :06:57.reformed EU. Can I congratulate him for an array our manifesto pledge --

:06:58. > :07:02.honouring our manifesto pledge and delivering this historic referendum.

:07:03. > :07:05.Unfortunately, we have heard some hysterical scaremongering during

:07:06. > :07:10.this debate. There are those in this House, and in the other place, who

:07:11. > :07:15.believe that if the British people decide to leave the EU, there should

:07:16. > :07:20.be a second referendum. Can he assure the House and the country

:07:21. > :07:26.that whatever the result on June 24, his government will carry out the

:07:27. > :07:29.wishes of the British people. If the voters to remain, to remain, and if

:07:30. > :07:35.the voters to leave, which I hope it is, then we leave. I'm very happy to

:07:36. > :07:40.agree with my honourable friend. In means we remain in a reformed

:07:41. > :07:43.European Union, out means we come out. And as the Leave campaigners

:07:44. > :07:50.have said and others have said, out means out of the European Union, out

:07:51. > :07:55.of the European single market, out of the council of ministers, out of

:07:56. > :07:58.all of those things, and it then means a process of delivering that

:07:59. > :08:01.which will take at least two years, and then delivering a trade deal

:08:02. > :08:05.which could take as many as seven years, so I would say to anyone

:08:06. > :08:09.still in doubt - and there are even members in this House still thinking

:08:10. > :08:12.about how to vote - if you haven't made up your mind yet, if you are

:08:13. > :08:17.still uncertain, when you think of that decade of uncertainty for our

:08:18. > :08:23.economy and everything else, don't risk it, and vote Remain. The North

:08:24. > :08:27.Middlesex Hospital accident and emergency unit is incomplete

:08:28. > :08:34.meltdown. Will the Prime Minister commit to taking swift action to

:08:35. > :08:39.tackle this crisis? I do understand it is a very busy accident and

:08:40. > :08:43.emergency unit. It has received over 30,600 patients through its doors in

:08:44. > :08:48.April alone but it has managed to carry out 40,000 operations and more

:08:49. > :08:53.than 62,000 diagnostic tests every year. If we look at what has

:08:54. > :08:59.happened since 2010, there are 120 more doctors, 200 mating more nurses

:09:00. > :09:04.recruited by the trust. -- 280 more nurses. But I think this comes out

:09:05. > :09:07.to the core argument of today. If we remain in, we will have a stronger

:09:08. > :09:10.economy and then we have to make sure we take the proceeds of growth

:09:11. > :09:16.in that economy and continue to put them into the NHS, as I've always

:09:17. > :09:19.done as Prime Minister. I'm looking forward to the British people giving

:09:20. > :09:25.me the opportunity to vote against the vindictive emergency budget.

:09:26. > :09:30.Will my right honourable friend explained that if the Government is

:09:31. > :09:37.so strapped for cash, why is it still intent on spending ?50 billion

:09:38. > :09:42.on HS2? The point is that we will be strapped for cash if you believe the

:09:43. > :09:48.Institute for Fiscal Studies, or the national Institute for it, can

:09:49. > :09:52.social research, both impeccably Independent, who say there will be a

:09:53. > :09:56.hole in our public finances between 20 billion and 40 billion. If the

:09:57. > :10:01.economy shrinks and you have fewer jobs and lower wages, you get less

:10:02. > :10:04.tax receipts. If you have less tax receipts, clearly you either have to

:10:05. > :10:09.make cuts or you have to put up taxes or you have to increase

:10:10. > :10:12.borrowing. It is a simple matter of mathematics. There is an easy way to

:10:13. > :10:14.avoid getting into that situation and that is devoted to stay in a

:10:15. > :10:36.reformed EU next Thursday. Order. I once asked the US Secretary of

:10:37. > :10:41.State but his policy was in the Caribbean, and he said it was a

:10:42. > :10:49.potter portrayed in a formulation mode. I think you can use that to

:10:50. > :10:53.describe today's PMQs. Jeremy Corbyn started with a question which took

:10:54. > :11:06.us by surprise on phone hacking. He then moved on to the NHS and Leave

:11:07. > :11:12.and whether the NHS would be weaker or stronger. And then the old

:11:13. > :11:16.favourite about the post workers directive, and the agencies who only

:11:17. > :11:21.advertise jobs abroad. We moved on the migrant funds which Jeremy

:11:22. > :11:25.Corbyn was pushing. The Prime Minister said he had reignited the

:11:26. > :11:30.migrant funds. Then we had fishing quotas. We didn't see that one

:11:31. > :11:35.happening, but there is a lot going on on the Thames at the moment with

:11:36. > :11:44.fishermen for Brexit being assailed by Bob Geldof in a different vote

:11:45. > :11:49.for Remain. But should be fun. You know it is a big news event when

:11:50. > :11:58.helicopters are scrambled to cover it. Finally we got to the central,

:11:59. > :12:02.crucial note of this referendum, the Chancellor saying he would need an

:12:03. > :12:07.emergency budget if we voted to leave and Jeremy Corbyn as the Prime

:12:08. > :12:12.Minister what he thought about the 57 MPs who said they wouldn't vote

:12:13. > :12:18.for that. We then got Mr Cameron to give his case that the union. The

:12:19. > :12:25.questions were lined up so the Prime Minister could respond in that way.

:12:26. > :12:29.An unusual PMQs. Break next week. Helen Manning said Jeremy Corbyn

:12:30. > :12:33.asking questions about phone hacking and agency workers EU directives

:12:34. > :12:39.when this country is on the brink of deciding future, is farcical.

:12:40. > :12:46.Kurt said they were the most boring and staged questions by Jeremy

:12:47. > :12:50.Corbyn. Geoffrey said scaremongering from Mr Cameron Phil is no one. He

:12:51. > :12:54.should be ashamed of himself, I have a sneaky suspicion it was his last

:12:55. > :13:01.PMQs as Conservative leader anyway. And then this tweet from Matt -

:13:02. > :13:05.there are a lot of bored journalists sitting in PMQs wishing they were

:13:06. > :13:09.outside on a boat, they are miserably watching the flotilla on

:13:10. > :13:16.Twitter. There is some truth in that. We will

:13:17. > :13:27.see if we can get some pictures of this flotilla. Is there don't know

:13:28. > :13:31.flotilla as well. Not unless you have charted it. We have a reporter

:13:32. > :13:37.on this flotilla, we are going live before the end of this programme.

:13:38. > :13:42.Some people are barbecuing Scottish langoustine brought all the way from

:13:43. > :13:47.Peterhead. If that is your kind of thing, it might be worth going to

:13:48. > :13:54.the river. Look at the pictures. I think the big boat in the middle

:13:55. > :14:04.belongs to Bob Geldof, the Leave one. Hose down by a Leave boat. A

:14:05. > :14:11.senior member of the government did say to me this morning, what is

:14:12. > :14:15.going on in the world. We are on the verge of making this huge decision

:14:16. > :14:20.and we end up with boats scrapping each other on the Thames. There is a

:14:21. > :14:26.very strange mood in Westminster because nobody has a clue what is

:14:27. > :14:30.going to happen. Partly because the polling models don't work and the

:14:31. > :14:33.parties are discredited after the general election. People are hearing

:14:34. > :14:40.different messages on the doorsteps. There is a sense that anything might

:14:41. > :14:51.happen. One of the viewers said, it might be huge, but it might be David

:14:52. > :14:54.Cameron's last PMQs. It is one of the multiplicity of possible things

:14:55. > :15:01.that might happen in the next ten days. Is it a strange atmosphere,

:15:02. > :15:06.John? People are taking control and the politicians don't know what to

:15:07. > :15:11.do. I am talking about Labour MPs, going out and having street stalls,

:15:12. > :15:17.they are getting robust exchanges, shall we say. When they are knocking

:15:18. > :15:20.on doors, to find what is happening, there aren't many knocking on doors,

:15:21. > :15:27.but they are shocked at the response they are getting. They shouldn't be.

:15:28. > :15:32.The interesting thing is, my prediction, the turnout in

:15:33. > :15:36.working-class communities will be higher than in any other

:15:37. > :15:42.communities, for the first time since the 50s. It is true,

:15:43. > :15:48.everywhere I go, the school gates, the local shop, for the first time,

:15:49. > :15:52.everybody is talking about it. They are not talking about the debate we

:15:53. > :15:57.politicians are having, whatever our views are. That is not influencing

:15:58. > :16:04.them, they are talking about what their experience is of it, workplace

:16:05. > :16:07.discussions, discussions in the community and discussions in

:16:08. > :16:13.families around the dinner table. That is what is going on and that is

:16:14. > :16:17.why so many people are going to vote. It has proved much tougher for

:16:18. > :16:21.the Prime Minister than he thought. He didn't expect to be in this

:16:22. > :16:29.position one week out, it was meant to be that by now, it would still be

:16:30. > :16:35.a fight, but a clear majority to Remain. Why hasn't it worked out? I

:16:36. > :16:40.don't know what the result will be. I still think it will be a Remain

:16:41. > :16:45.vote. I know I will annoy the viewers again and sound like a

:16:46. > :16:51.cliched politician, but we know the polls have been wrong and there was

:16:52. > :16:53.a rogue poll for the Scottish independence, and there was in terms

:16:54. > :17:04.of the general election. It isn't a slam dunk. My question didn't imply

:17:05. > :17:10.victory for Remain Leave. Why has it turned out to be tougher? I think

:17:11. > :17:13.John is onto something because there is a disconnect between Westminster

:17:14. > :17:19.politicians and their voters. It wasn't meant to be an anti-labour

:17:20. > :17:22.point, but Labour finds itself in a disconnected position. It is what

:17:23. > :17:28.has happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. It has been replaced by

:17:29. > :17:32.the SNP, the centre-left party people vote for that they feel talk

:17:33. > :17:39.to them. And I think the similar is happening in Labour's northern

:17:40. > :17:48.constituencies. John has worked very hard to keep in touch with the

:17:49. > :17:53.voters. That is true, but the David Cameron misjudgement above all. I

:17:54. > :17:56.think he thought, let's call them the Labour moderates, Liz candle,

:17:57. > :18:02.Yvette Cooper, very pro-European, historically. They would be

:18:03. > :18:07.outspoken and it would carry that sway and Jeremy and his leadership

:18:08. > :18:11.and these new people, that would appeal, I think they bought the myth

:18:12. > :18:17.of these vast numbers of Jeremy Corbyn fans out there, where are

:18:18. > :18:21.they? The fact is, there aren't that many of them, they are not knocking

:18:22. > :18:28.on doors. A lot of them, possibly Jeremy Corbyn himself, not that

:18:29. > :18:34.convinced about the European Union. The George Osborne, David Cameron

:18:35. > :18:38.playbook for the referendum was they saw as being a successful tactic in

:18:39. > :18:42.the Scottish referendum and then a successful tactic in the general

:18:43. > :18:47.election, don't take the risk with the economy. That is the play, that

:18:48. > :18:51.is what they decided to do in this referendum campaign as well. Despite

:18:52. > :18:56.the fact people in the Conservative Party and the Labour Party,

:18:57. > :18:59.internally in the Remain camp have been saying, we have to offer more

:19:00. > :19:06.than this, it is not the general election or a replay of the Scottish

:19:07. > :19:09.referendum. Yes, there is a problem with Labour having a disconnect with

:19:10. > :19:17.their voters, but one of the big points we have seen, the Prime

:19:18. > :19:20.Minister is now in an uncomfortable position, then analysis of what

:19:21. > :19:23.would work in this referendum campaign going on the narrow

:19:24. > :19:32.economic point, has proved to be wrong. That has not delivered, it

:19:33. > :19:36.hasn't resonated. I would suggest, and there are all sorts of things

:19:37. > :19:39.going on in this referendum, I would suggest this referendum was always

:19:40. > :19:45.going to be about identity as well as how well of the country is. Also,

:19:46. > :19:51.there has a thing we have seen in the last few weeks, we are in a

:19:52. > :19:56.post-fact world. People we have been talking to around the country,

:19:57. > :19:58.seeing people and listening to politicians and asking questions of

:19:59. > :20:05.politicians, voters don't want to believe any of them at all. So

:20:06. > :20:09.Westminster scrapping over the 350 million whatever, people don't

:20:10. > :20:16.believe either side at all. It is about expenses, probably about cash

:20:17. > :20:19.for honours in Iraq. People had underestimated the level of distrust

:20:20. > :20:24.amongst some parts of the electorate. I think many voters

:20:25. > :20:33.it'll be about instinct. The Scottish referendum was as much

:20:34. > :20:37.about identity as was about the economy and in terms of what John is

:20:38. > :20:40.finding on the doorstep, I don't know, but I think there are issues

:20:41. > :20:45.that do resonate. One is about sovereignty, are we ruled by Europe

:20:46. > :20:48.or not? I think we are strong independent nation. It is about an

:20:49. > :20:52.economic risk. People do to that point on board. And there is this

:20:53. > :20:57.whole debate about immigration, not being anti immigration per se but

:20:58. > :21:03.worried about the effect on public services. There is one very powerful

:21:04. > :21:05.thing that is also going on, and I don't disagree with what you are

:21:06. > :21:11.saying, and that's about empowerment. Zero our contracts,

:21:12. > :21:15.agency work, it's a referendum. We can make a decision and people are

:21:16. > :21:20.thinking... The feedback I get, people are talking about agency work

:21:21. > :21:24.all the time. This is what I think is motivated people. It's not about

:21:25. > :21:29."We don't like foreigners". There's a tiny group who say that, but that

:21:30. > :21:33.is not what the vast majority are saying. To me they are saying the

:21:34. > :21:40.opposite. They are saying, I've got this wonderful Polish neighbour next

:21:41. > :21:43.to me, but it's my job. And that empowerment where they can make a

:21:44. > :21:48.decision, that's very big and that's why turnout will be high. We have

:21:49. > :21:49.run out of time and need to move on. It is fast approaching one o'clock.

:21:50. > :21:51.Laura, thank you. Now, the businessman

:21:52. > :21:53.Philip Green has been appearing from MPs over his part

:21:54. > :22:08.in the collapse of the high There's certainly no intent at all

:22:09. > :22:11.on my part for anything to be like this, and it didn't need to be like

:22:12. > :22:17.this, and I just want to apologise to all the BHS people who have been

:22:18. > :22:20.involved in this. When you first... I wasn't involved in it. I can't

:22:21. > :22:25.answer you because I wasn't involved in its. You can ask me as many

:22:26. > :22:31.questions as you like. This was not on my table to deal with. On your

:22:32. > :22:39.commitment to the pension scheme... Why can't I answer the question? No,

:22:40. > :22:42.no, no, because you are not getting the right information. He is trying

:22:43. > :22:45.to make me answer things I cannot answer and force me to give him the

:22:46. > :22:51.answer he wants and I'm not going to. Before the hearing, Philip Green

:22:52. > :22:56.described the Parliamentary increase as a process which is not even the

:22:57. > :22:59.pretence of fairness and objectivity and at its primary objective was

:23:00. > :23:04."The destruction of my repeat edition" you describe the showed up?

:23:05. > :23:07.No, because then he would have been dragged on and it would have been

:23:08. > :23:12.even worse. His reputation is damaged anyway. When his web of

:23:13. > :23:17.things are going well, he takes all the glory and all of the money. When

:23:18. > :23:21.it goes wrong, everyone else takes the hit and he says it is nothing to

:23:22. > :23:25.do with him. That is fundamentally wrong morally, ethically, and is

:23:26. > :23:31.fundamentally unfair. But in the end, Ed Vaizey, what did we learn?

:23:32. > :23:36.Those people are still going to lose those jobs. I haven't seen the

:23:37. > :23:40.select committee hearing but Frank Field is a highly respected chairman

:23:41. > :23:43.of that committee, very experienced in these issues, and the reason he

:23:44. > :23:48.is in front of the committee is about the future of the BHS pension,

:23:49. > :23:51.so I'm sure the select committee report will influence thinking. The

:23:52. > :23:55.Government itself is thinking in terms of the insolvency service

:23:56. > :23:58.inquiry and working with the pensions regulator and the pension

:23:59. > :24:03.protection fund. But you would expect a committee like Frank's to

:24:04. > :24:07.either firstly focus on what happened to the BHS pension but also

:24:08. > :24:11.come up with recommendations on what has happened, for the Government to

:24:12. > :24:15.say, these are things we should be thinking about. He refused to

:24:16. > :24:19.guarantee today that people in the scheme would get the same amount,

:24:20. > :24:22.those already in the scheme, would get the same amount they were

:24:23. > :24:26.originally entitled to before BHS collapsed, in terms of pensions. If

:24:27. > :24:30.his plan does fall short, should the Government stepping? It is too soon

:24:31. > :24:33.to say and I don't want to be accused of dodging the question but

:24:34. > :24:36.there is a process where you have the pensions regulator, which has

:24:37. > :24:40.the power, potentially, to ask the former owner of a company to

:24:41. > :24:44.contribute to a pension deficit, and you've got the pension protection

:24:45. > :24:47.fund, which was set up precisely to help where a pension fund was in

:24:48. > :24:52.deficit because of a company going bust. So both those organisations

:24:53. > :24:56.are working with the BHS pension trustees. But if that doesn't

:24:57. > :24:59.happen, should the government help? Potentially, the protection fund is

:25:00. > :25:04.the Government's body to help out when the pension is a deficit. So

:25:05. > :25:08.maybe, then. Sir Philip Green also said he is working on a solution for

:25:09. > :25:12.the BHS pensions mess, as he called it, and said it wasn't anything

:25:13. > :25:15.directly to do with him, in terms of the talks that happened beforehand.

:25:16. > :25:20.There are 20,000 people in the scheme and it has a ?571 million

:25:21. > :25:24.deficit. What do you think will happen? I think there is a big

:25:25. > :25:27.danger those people are going to lose out quite a lot and therefore

:25:28. > :25:32.it needs government assistance and need him to cough up all the money

:25:33. > :25:38.he made out of this escapade and put it back in. Do you think that is

:25:39. > :25:51.likely? No. Oh, well, there you go. I got an answer. That was an answer!

:25:52. > :25:57.Nigel Farage is leading a flotilla in protest at the EU fishing quotas.

:25:58. > :26:00.They set off from South End in the early hours of the morning,

:26:01. > :26:02.and made their way under London Bridge before arriving

:26:03. > :26:10.You can see them there looking onto the MPs' Terrace.

:26:11. > :26:13.It's not been entirely plain sailing as they also encountered

:26:14. > :26:15.pro-Remain ships - one carrying the activist

:26:16. > :26:21.Bob Geldof - as they made their way toward the Westminster.

:26:22. > :26:27.We are seafaring nation and it is only fair that this should be fought

:26:28. > :26:31.out in the Thames. Our man on the front line in the Battle of the

:26:32. > :26:37.Brexit votes is Giles Dilnot. We go to him live.

:26:38. > :26:41.You had debates, you've had leaflets, you haven't heard anything

:26:42. > :26:45.quite like this. A water board war of words between Nigel Farage and

:26:46. > :26:50.Bob Geldof! A flotilla of fishing industry votes for Leave saying that

:26:51. > :26:54.the EU has crippled the industry. We got a whole flotilla of small In

:26:55. > :27:01.votes zipping around and that large barge with Bob Geldof on it,

:27:02. > :27:04.chanting that the EU benefits fishermen. There were not many

:27:05. > :27:08.fishermen on board that vote. Nigel Farage pointing out that this is a

:27:09. > :27:15.millionaire dictating to small businessmen. I saw earlier the

:27:16. > :27:19.millionaire supporter of Leave.EU smiling at me and saying that it

:27:20. > :27:22.looked fun. There are people saying the EU has been very bad for them,

:27:23. > :27:27.Nigel Farage is here to support them, and when it got to that battle

:27:28. > :27:31.of words, it was quite something and most of us have ears ringing. We've

:27:32. > :27:35.moved away from the House of Commons because frankly, you wouldn't have

:27:36. > :27:38.heard a word I said. I'm glad you did but you seem to be going

:27:39. > :27:42.upstream now. When are you going to turn round and go back down again? I

:27:43. > :27:47.have absolutely no idea, to be honest. I want a tactical retreat,

:27:48. > :27:50.from I think, from the sound barrage. Safe sailing, Giles tit

:27:51. > :27:54.thank you very much. There's just time to put you out

:27:55. > :28:06.of your misery and give John Mann, press that buzzer. Lets

:28:07. > :28:10.see who it is. It is Stephen Collinson from

:28:11. > :28:11.Hastings. Well done, you got the historic mug, which is no different

:28:12. > :28:13.to any of the others. I'll be back tomorrow

:28:14. > :28:17.with the Daily Politics at midday and then a special extended

:28:18. > :28:20.edition of This Week. We'll be on until the small wee

:28:21. > :28:22.hours of the morning to bring you the results

:28:23. > :28:32.of the Tooting by-election. And for the benefit of those

:28:33. > :28:35.who live in Tooting, a full list of candidates standing in that

:28:36. > :28:38.by-election is on the screen now. You will each collect

:28:39. > :29:02.a Michelin-starred chef. 'En route,

:29:03. > :29:05.each chef will prepare a dish.'