:00:00. > :00:07.advise them to do that whether times are good or difficult. When taking
:00:08. > :00:11.out a mortgage, at some point over the life of that mortgage, times
:00:12. > :00:17.will be difficult. It might be at the start, five years in, ten or 15.
:00:18. > :00:35.You want to make sure as a family, as an individual, but
:00:36. > :00:39.Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:43.Voting gets underway in the Conservative leadership
:00:44. > :00:45.election as the five candidates vying to take over
:00:46. > :00:48.from David Cameron hope they'll get enough support to avoid crashing
:00:49. > :00:54.Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson is meeting the big unions
:00:55. > :00:57.in what is described as a last roll of the dice to persuade
:00:58. > :01:06.The Governor of the Bank Of England Mark Carney warns of challenging
:01:07. > :01:09.times ahead as he assesses the impact of the vote to leave
:01:10. > :01:15.And hundreds of schools across England are closed today
:01:16. > :01:26.as teachers strike over pay, workloads and school funding.
:01:27. > :01:33.And with us for the whole of the programme today is the former
:01:34. > :01:34.Labour Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell.
:01:35. > :01:39.But first, the Governor of the Bank Of England has warned
:01:40. > :01:41.that the UK faces a challenging economic outlook following
:01:42. > :01:46.Speaking in the last hour, Mark Carney said that some
:01:47. > :01:49.of the risks he warned about before the vote to leave
:01:50. > :02:01.The number of vulnerable households could increase
:02:02. > :02:07.with a tougher economic outlook and potential
:02:08. > :02:09.-- with a tougher economic outlook and potential tightening
:02:10. > :02:12.In particular, there is growing evidence of uncertainty
:02:13. > :02:14.about the referendum had delayed major economic decisions such
:02:15. > :02:16.as business investment, construction and housing market activity.
:02:17. > :02:19.Our business correspondent Jonty Bloom joins me now.
:02:20. > :02:27.What else did he have to say? In particular, he is worried about
:02:28. > :02:33.the amount of lending in the economy, that is why he has weakened
:02:34. > :02:38.the rules for the banks, they have more capital they can lend, about
:02:39. > :02:43.?150 billion will be released. A sign of how important he thinks it
:02:44. > :02:48.is the banks keep lending. The risks are quite significant,
:02:49. > :02:51.especially with commercial property. He says the amount of foreign
:02:52. > :02:56.investment in commercial property fell by half in the first three
:02:57. > :03:00.months. Yesterday, we saw Standard Life frees one of its property funds
:03:01. > :03:07.so no one could take their money out so there would be no run on people
:03:08. > :03:10.taking money out. People need to invest here to improve our trade
:03:11. > :03:15.deficit. How worried should we be about the
:03:16. > :03:20.risks Mark Carney has said the board about before the vote?
:03:21. > :03:24.Mark Carney is being serious and very worried. He says the Bank of
:03:25. > :03:28.England is taking a significant number of steps to ameliorate the
:03:29. > :03:34.worst effects. Today, we have had that extra
:03:35. > :03:40.borrowing. We are expecting there will be a cut in interest rates down
:03:41. > :03:44.to 0.25%, even lower. Also, the Bank of England has said
:03:45. > :03:49.there is the opportunity for more quantitative easing when they print
:03:50. > :03:53.money and release it. They have been doing that since the credit crunch
:03:54. > :03:58.and could be doing even more. In terms of other monetary policy,
:03:59. > :04:02.the currency rates and stock market, have they recovered since the
:04:03. > :04:06.initial dip? That was put to him, why are you
:04:07. > :04:13.worried when the stock market has recovered? He said the pound is
:04:14. > :04:16.still down 10%. Good when we need to export more. But if you look at
:04:17. > :04:22.house-builders, they are significantly lower. He is worried
:04:23. > :04:28.signs that the property market is slowing down, construction has
:04:29. > :04:35.halted in the private sector. Bank shares are down 20%, the domestic
:04:36. > :04:39.share market, the FTSE 250, that is markedly lower as well. All those
:04:40. > :04:43.things pointed to the market agreeing with Mark Carney we have
:04:44. > :04:48.serious problems. Is this the right action to take in
:04:49. > :04:53.what was predicted to be short-term instability?
:04:54. > :05:00.I am sure it is the right action to take. As Jonty said, this is
:05:01. > :05:05.realising the reality of all the warnings Mark Carney and other
:05:06. > :05:10.experts so derided by Michael Gove gave before the referendum.
:05:11. > :05:18.What is important is people at home grow to understand just what the
:05:19. > :05:22.scale of economic uncertainty and instability has been created by
:05:23. > :05:26.this. Mark Carney is trying to reassure
:05:27. > :05:33.people. He should be reassuring. The fact is
:05:34. > :05:37.his judgments about the economy are the reverse of what was being
:05:38. > :05:42.predicted six months ago when we were beginning to see growth and
:05:43. > :05:46.expecting to see an increase in interest rates, as evidence of the
:05:47. > :05:49.strength of the economy. Although we don't know what will
:05:50. > :05:54.happen in the next year. Of course we don't. This is a
:05:55. > :06:00.worrying time, mortgage lending going down, as Jonty said, the
:06:01. > :06:04.construction industry. If house prices came down in London
:06:05. > :06:09.that might not be bad. That might not be such a bad thing.
:06:10. > :06:15.Different in other parts of the country. London is a very special
:06:16. > :06:19.case. This is now the reality of the
:06:20. > :06:24.uncertainty created by Brexit rolling out.
:06:25. > :06:27.That is why there is an urgent need to create certainty about the terms
:06:28. > :06:29.of negotiation. We will talk about the terms of
:06:30. > :06:31.negotiation in a few minutes. The question for today
:06:32. > :06:39.is when Nigel Farage infamously insulted then European Council
:06:40. > :06:42.President Herman Van Rompuy in 2010, Was it a) never
:06:43. > :06:58.having a "proper job" b) having the "charisma
:06:59. > :06:59.of a damp rag" c) being akin to a
:07:00. > :07:01."low-grade bank clerk" At the end of the show Tessa
:07:02. > :07:06.will give us the correct answer. Voting is under way
:07:07. > :07:08.in Westminster in the first round of the Conservative Party's
:07:09. > :07:10.leadership election with the five candidates vying
:07:11. > :07:12.for the votes of 330 Here's Giles with the low-down
:07:13. > :07:21.on the candidates and the contest. It has already had
:07:22. > :07:25.Shakespearean overtones. But the stage is now set for a bid
:07:26. > :07:29.not just to be Conservative Party leader but Prime Minister of a UK
:07:30. > :07:34.set on being outside the EU. One of the players so many assumed
:07:35. > :07:37.would take a starring if not the starring role did not even make
:07:38. > :07:40.it out of the wings. Ahead of the first vote
:07:41. > :07:47.of Conservative MPs on Tuesday, we don't have five guys,
:07:48. > :07:50.and none of them are called Mo. Indeed, it is a woman
:07:51. > :07:53.who seems to have the big mo, the big political momentum
:07:54. > :07:55.at the moment. Theresa May was always
:07:56. > :07:59.likely to run. She was Remain but kept a low
:08:00. > :08:01.profile during the Her pitch has been
:08:02. > :08:08.summed up as a serious She is, they say, the safe pair
:08:09. > :08:13.of hands on the tiller. Former special advisers are helping
:08:14. > :08:16.to run her campaign and she has backing
:08:17. > :08:19.from the Daily Mail newspaper. And in the Cabinet, Michael Fallon,
:08:20. > :08:21.Patrick McLaughlin, Also the Cabinet Office's Matt
:08:22. > :08:31.Hancock and significant I want someone who has performed
:08:32. > :08:37.and delivered at the highest level, That was Theresa May
:08:38. > :08:40.from the beginning. Days ago he was going to run
:08:41. > :09:00.Boris Johnson's campaign until he buried him in a publicly
:09:01. > :09:02.brutal act which Boris supporters Now, one of the leaders
:09:03. > :09:06.of the Leave campaign, the reluctant Gove seems to want
:09:07. > :09:08.the job like never before, Skills Minister Nick Boles, a Boris
:09:09. > :09:12.switcher, is running his campaign. His support includes
:09:13. > :09:14.John Whittingdale and Nicky Morgan. He had reluctantly decided this
:09:15. > :09:18.was the course of action But he has seen the situation,
:09:19. > :09:24.and has stepped up to deal with it. Stephen Crabb has long
:09:25. > :09:28.been spotted as future For some, that is
:09:29. > :09:33.still in the future. He is running on a ticket
:09:34. > :09:36.with Business Secretary Sajid Javid But both were Remain
:09:37. > :09:42.in the referendum and that is Apart from being in the Cabinet,
:09:43. > :09:46.they have no significant big support but are picking up
:09:47. > :09:48.new and younger MPs. -- I see him as one
:09:49. > :09:56.of the new generation, That is something incredibly
:09:57. > :09:59.important about the future We need someone who can reach
:10:00. > :10:02.out beyond Westminster. Andrea Leadsom is not
:10:03. > :10:07.a household name but she made a name beyond Westminster
:10:08. > :10:09.with her contribution A staunch Leave campaigner and with
:10:10. > :10:22.39 MPs on board to reflect that. Andrea stands head and shoulders,
:10:23. > :10:24.and brings a freshness. She is tough but with a positive
:10:25. > :10:31.outlook on politics. Then there is Liam Fox,
:10:32. > :10:34.a veteran of leadership campaigns A former Cabinet Minister keen
:10:35. > :10:40.to get back into He was on the other side
:10:41. > :10:55.of the debate of the referendum to me but he is the person
:10:56. > :10:58.to bring us together. He has experience in Government
:10:59. > :11:02.and is widely liked in the country, as a doctor with his background,
:11:03. > :11:05.the sort of person people can see One of these five will not just have
:11:06. > :11:18.to manage a bruised party Simultaneously focusing on how
:11:19. > :11:21.they separate the UK Let's get the latest
:11:22. > :11:26.from our assistant political editor Norman Smith who's outside
:11:27. > :11:38.the committee room in Parliament Have you had your ear against the
:11:39. > :11:45.door? I can see other journalists, what is going on?
:11:46. > :11:50.They are right down the end of the committee corridor this time.
:11:51. > :11:54.All these rooms are booked. I have chatted with Michael Gove who said
:11:55. > :12:01.he is still in there fighting but only just I suspect because you sent
:12:02. > :12:07.the damage done to him by his fratricide on Boris Johnson, that
:12:08. > :12:11.may have hampered his campaign. If you are looking for who will
:12:12. > :12:16.emerge to take on Theresa May, then increasingly it is beginning to look
:12:17. > :12:22.like Andrea Leadsom as the Brexit contender to take a run. She seems
:12:23. > :12:25.to be ahead in terms of the public nominations.
:12:26. > :12:32.That said, there has been a vigorous counter briefing by Team go
:12:33. > :12:36.suggesting she lacks experience, that her performs at the hustings
:12:37. > :12:40.last night was woeful. One Tory minister said to me, we are use to
:12:41. > :12:43.people not answering questions because we don't answer questions,
:12:44. > :12:48.and she wasn't answering questions. There is the view she is still
:12:49. > :12:52.fairly new, and do you really want her to be Prime Minister at such an
:12:53. > :12:57.uncertain time? That said, Michael Gove has an
:12:58. > :13:01.awfully long way to come back if he is to achieve second place. That is
:13:02. > :13:05.the real tussle. We will get an indication when we get the results
:13:06. > :13:10.announced this evening. Let us look at the other end of the
:13:11. > :13:13.stale, who is likely to be dropping out first?
:13:14. > :13:16.If you look at the names declared so far, it would look as if Liam Fox is
:13:17. > :13:33.potentially the most vulnerable.
:13:34. > :13:36.There is a view that last night he stressed a lot of big foreign policy
:13:37. > :13:39.areas and there is a view that maybe he is not pitching for the top job
:13:40. > :13:41.so much but he might be pitching the Foreign Secretary, defence, that
:13:42. > :13:44.might be his game. Stephen Crabb, there is a view it is a bit early
:13:45. > :13:47.for him his pitch as a true blue conservatives, there is mileage in
:13:48. > :13:50.that but maybe this contest is not his contest.
:13:51. > :13:55.He also came unstuck this morning on the Today programme when quizzed
:13:56. > :14:00.about the idea of borrowing ?100 billion to pump into infrastructure.
:14:01. > :14:05.That seems to chuck in the bin all pounds for deficit reduction. I am
:14:06. > :14:09.not sure that has been nailed down. He might struggle to make the final
:14:10. > :14:11.cut. Those two are probably most
:14:12. > :14:12.vulnerable. Thank you.
:14:13. > :14:18.We've been joined by the Conservative MP, Bill Cash.
:14:19. > :14:24.You have spent your career campaigning on the European Union.
:14:25. > :14:29.The UK has voted to leave but there are many different ways that Britain
:14:30. > :14:32.could actually x it the EU. What type of Brexit should Britain aim
:14:33. > :14:37.for? First of all, we need a proper trade
:14:38. > :14:40.agreement. You don't need to be a member of the EU to trade with the
:14:41. > :14:46.EU. We have heard from Australia, New Zealand, even John Kerry of
:14:47. > :14:51.America saying they would trade with us. We have a positive opportunity.
:14:52. > :14:56.We will do it from a position of strength, we are the fifth largest
:14:57. > :15:00.economy in the world. We have a trading record that goes back
:15:01. > :15:03.centuries. Bilateral agreements. What about
:15:04. > :15:07.access to the single market, should Britain be part of it or have access
:15:08. > :15:11.to it? You can't actually be in the single
:15:12. > :15:15.market governed by European laws. Once your appeal the 1972 act, you
:15:16. > :15:25.are out. he can work at bilateral relations
:15:26. > :15:30.with other states and that will happen. You are talking about
:15:31. > :15:36.individual bilateral agreements with all the 27 members? Andrea Ledsom
:15:37. > :15:39.has already been talking, she is a fantastic candidate, the people who
:15:40. > :15:43.have massive international experience of dealing with the EU
:15:44. > :15:47.and the bottom line is that we will be able to achieve it just as other
:15:48. > :15:52.countries have. Let me get direction of the two general. He says we will
:15:53. > :15:56.not be part of the single market, we might want to gain access by
:15:57. > :15:59.bilateral treaties, could mean we wouldn't have to sign up to the
:16:00. > :16:06.other conditions of being a member of the European Union, ie freedom of
:16:07. > :16:12.movement. Though and I overuse of established the degree of profound
:16:13. > :16:16.difference between us on this, but I respect his consistency -- bill and
:16:17. > :16:22.I. It would untold damage to our economy if we are excluded as a
:16:23. > :16:31.result of the Brexit terms to the single market. Because we are denied
:16:32. > :16:41.access to a trading market of 500 million people which has contributed
:16:42. > :16:46.40% of our trade. Of course, the issue which is linked to that is the
:16:47. > :16:54.clear conditionality from everything we have heard from the Council of
:16:55. > :17:00.ministers today, that freedom of movement is inextricably linked to
:17:01. > :17:04.access to the single market. Which is why none of these questions can
:17:05. > :17:10.be answered at the moment because we are in a no man's land. But we need
:17:11. > :17:17.to hear that from the candidates for the Conservative leadership? We do.
:17:18. > :17:22.We now need to open discussions with Europe about what the framework for
:17:23. > :17:26.Brexit terms would be. Theresa May has adjusted her priority would be
:17:27. > :17:29.to negotiate some sort of access for the UK to the single market, as you
:17:30. > :17:35.have clearly said, that would include freedom of movement, the two
:17:36. > :17:42.cannot be broken. Beyond that we don't quite know what's going to be
:17:43. > :17:46.in terms of negotiation, that's why we have to start discussions,
:17:47. > :17:53.without triggering Article 50. Not yet. I think when it should be
:17:54. > :17:58.triggered is a judgment to be made once there is a new Prime Minister,
:17:59. > :18:03.but the existing Prime Minister, who has a duty to maintain government,
:18:04. > :18:09.should start engaging with other European ministers about the terms.
:18:10. > :18:14.One should Britain trigger it? Will run a massive trade deficit every
:18:15. > :18:20.year with the other 27 member states, other ?62 billion a year in
:18:21. > :18:25.exports and imports. Why would we want to deny access to that massive
:18:26. > :18:26.market? We would be dealing with them through the trading
:18:27. > :18:35.arrangements that would be established. Listen. If I may.
:18:36. > :18:40.Basically, Germany on the other hand, has a trade surplus with the
:18:41. > :18:45.same 27 member states of 82 billion. This is not a single market, it's a
:18:46. > :18:49.German single operation. How long will it take to set up all those
:18:50. > :18:53.trade agreements? The average time it takes to set up, Peter Lilley has
:18:54. > :18:57.been doing a lot of work on this and it's not as long as people are
:18:58. > :19:02.making out, and maybe a couple of years or so but not as long as
:19:03. > :19:05.people think. The evidence from really experienced negotiators is it
:19:06. > :19:09.doesn't take as long as some are claiming. You are clear that the
:19:10. > :19:13.candidates who have thrown their hat into the ring have different views
:19:14. > :19:17.about how the negotiations should proceed. That is why I'm supporting
:19:18. > :19:21.Andrea Ledsom, she has the experience, she can deliver this.
:19:22. > :19:26.She has the most massive experience in the setting up, she
:19:27. > :19:34.understands... One should shape if she wins, drug Article 50? -- when
:19:35. > :19:44.should she, if she wins drug Article 50. It means reasonably soon. I will
:19:45. > :19:50.say this. It is going to start sooner or later, but actually right
:19:51. > :19:53.now, the situation is bedevilled by this proposal to go to the courts.
:19:54. > :20:01.What do you think about this proposal? Lets just say what it is.
:20:02. > :20:04.You are a strong defender of the sovereignty of Parliament. Why
:20:05. > :20:08.shouldn't the House of Commons have a vote on Brexit before the Prime
:20:09. > :20:16.Minister formally triggers article 50? Without going into detail, the
:20:17. > :20:20.argument are based on a complete misconception about the European
:20:21. > :20:26.Community. But what about the idea of the 70 of Parliament? Because the
:20:27. > :20:29.EU institutions, they put out a statement on June 29, all the member
:20:30. > :20:33.states and institutions have said it is the government to make the
:20:34. > :20:36.decision and by constitutional law it belongs to the prerogative, it's
:20:37. > :20:42.a matter for the government to bring it into effect. Except you did argue
:20:43. > :20:46.and others did argue about line by line on the Maastricht Treaty, for
:20:47. > :20:54.example? Why can't Parliament have a chance? I think there are two
:20:55. > :20:58.points. The constitutional laws would say broadly that democracy
:20:59. > :21:02.trumps interpretation of the consideration or position and there
:21:03. > :21:07.has been a referendum which concluded that we should leave the
:21:08. > :21:15.EU. That's the first point. I think the second point is that it will be
:21:16. > :21:20.important for Parliament to be in gauge in this, and I think that we
:21:21. > :21:25.have two be clear about the scale, if this is the case, of unforeseen
:21:26. > :21:30.detriment to the economy and well-being of people in the UK, as a
:21:31. > :21:34.result of leaving the EU. You think they should be a second referendum
:21:35. > :21:39.if there is a clear change in public mood? I don't think there should but
:21:40. > :21:43.there should be a critical issue and what I expect to be a general
:21:44. > :21:49.election which a new Prime Minister is elected. If you are doing it
:21:50. > :21:52.shouldn't be a separate act of Parliament before negotiations are
:21:53. > :21:57.actually triggered, then it's going to be decided, the Brexit
:21:58. > :22:02.negotiations will be decided by Tory grassroots members in the shires? We
:22:03. > :22:05.already have an act of Parliament, it's called the European Union
:22:06. > :22:11.referendum act, which depleted the basis on which we go forward. But we
:22:12. > :22:14.don't know what Brexit is going to look like. People will say that
:22:15. > :22:20.broadly speaking, of course there was that act of Parliament in place
:22:21. > :22:25.is it your view of Brexit or Theresa May's view? They are very different
:22:26. > :22:30.as you have admitted. I can only see that it is quite clear that Andrea
:22:31. > :22:35.Ledsom and those who agree with her and those like myself are quite
:22:36. > :22:41.clear about this. Article 50 will be invoked almost certainly in the
:22:42. > :22:45.reasonably near future but not until we have managed... That was for the
:22:46. > :22:48.referendum was about. That was to leave and we didn't know what shape
:22:49. > :22:54.it's going to be, now we're getting a flavour, shouldn't Parliament have
:22:55. > :22:57.a say? That was inherited the outcome of the referendum, the
:22:58. > :23:02.verdict has been given, leave means leave, entry is right and able to
:23:03. > :23:09.deal with the Mandarin problem which is reversing the civil service --
:23:10. > :23:11.Andrea is right. You need a strong character who truly understands the
:23:12. > :23:19.European issue to deal with all that. I think the Brexiteers are too
:23:20. > :23:22.willing to live with the uncertainty regardless of the cost to the
:23:23. > :23:28.country. This country has got to continue to have a functioning
:23:29. > :23:32.government will stop it well. The promised to should be engaged in
:23:33. > :23:39.early stages of discussion now in the remaining months. The Prime
:23:40. > :23:45.Minister should be. It doesn't look too good at the moment for your
:23:46. > :23:50.party. Can I come back to this issue, it is right for Britain's
:23:51. > :23:53.feature outside the EU to be shaped by 330 MPs and the ballots of
:23:54. > :23:57.grassroots members and then at the general election for the country to
:23:58. > :24:03.decide and vote on in terms of Brexit? We had presented the ocean
:24:04. > :24:10.when John Major took over. -- the same situation. I think there's a
:24:11. > :24:16.great deal of Armageddon pulp on the economy and the constitution. We had
:24:17. > :24:23.percentage ocean with Gordon Brown. He was fatally flawed. -- we had the
:24:24. > :24:27.same situation. I think he was floored for other reasons. Andrea
:24:28. > :24:33.Ledsom will be extremely good as a Prime Minister. The new Prime
:24:34. > :24:38.Minister should call a general election. What about the reports of
:24:39. > :24:42.postings that Andrea Ledsom, according to one Tory MP, said it
:24:43. > :24:48.was a car crash performance and went down as a cup of cold sick? I think
:24:49. > :24:53.that is extremely wrong and typical of the kind of disinformation that
:24:54. > :24:58.gets put out. Other people who weren't there who are commenting...
:24:59. > :25:01.This is an election people sometimes say things to diminish the chances
:25:02. > :25:06.of other people. I don't agree with that verdict, Andrea did a very good
:25:07. > :25:10.job, she was brilliant in the press conference earlier in the day and in
:25:11. > :25:14.other meetings, she is a first-class candidate and I say she should be
:25:15. > :25:20.the next Prime Minister. I think that clue! -- that clue!
:25:21. > :25:23.Jeremy Corbyn may still have more gaps in his Shadow front bench team
:25:24. > :25:25.than the England football team's defence but the Labour
:25:26. > :25:27.leader is still in post despite 80% of his MPs
:25:28. > :25:31.At last night's meeting of the parliamentary Labour Party,
:25:32. > :25:33.the deputy leader Tom Watson said he would meet union representatives
:25:34. > :25:36.today as a last role of the dice in the leadership crisis,
:25:37. > :25:39.presumably to ask them to help persuade Mr Corbyn to stand aside.
:25:40. > :25:41.If Mr Corbyn refuses, he faces a leadership challenge
:25:42. > :25:45.and the question will then be, does he need to secure scores
:25:46. > :25:47.of nominations to get back onto the ballot paper?
:25:48. > :25:57.Mark Lobel has been getting to grips with the Labour Party rule book.
:25:58. > :26:04.I want to reach out to all our members. Despite his large ditch
:26:05. > :26:09.appeal for party unity yesterday, at least one MP, Angela Eagle, says she
:26:10. > :26:13.will challenge his leadership if he doesn't resign. But many fear a
:26:14. > :26:17.contest will be highly acrimonious and may end up in the courts,
:26:18. > :26:20.because of differing interpretations of Labour Party rules about how a
:26:21. > :26:23.contender makes the ballot. The rules state where there is no
:26:24. > :26:38.vacancy, nominations may be sought...
:26:39. > :26:47.That means at least 51 MPs or MEPs. Jeremy Corbyn's ally, John
:26:48. > :26:52.McDonnell, insisted mystical than would automatically make the ballot.
:26:53. > :26:55.He is the leader of the Labour Party, you staying leader of the
:26:56. > :26:59.Labour Party and if there is a challenge, they will be a democratic
:27:00. > :27:02.election, Germany will stand, he is automatically on the ballot paper
:27:03. > :27:08.under our rules. -- Jeremy will stand.
:27:09. > :27:13.They say these words mean only challenges and not the incumbent
:27:14. > :27:15.need to get MPs to back their nomination, which is important
:27:16. > :27:22.because mystical than would struggle to get enough MPs to back him after
:27:23. > :27:25.the no-confidence vote last week. One senior insider told with they
:27:26. > :27:28.were divided for a different reason, to protect the incumbent from
:27:29. > :27:32.frivolous challenges to their leadership such as happened to
:27:33. > :27:34.Gordon Brown when he was Prime Minister. The insider insisted it
:27:35. > :27:39.was meant to exclude the incumbent from needing nominations of MPs. And
:27:40. > :27:45.those on the anti-Corbin Wing point to the words in the nomination,
:27:46. > :27:49.which they say underline the fact that any nominee would need the
:27:50. > :27:54.support of MPs to take part, a point underlined by Neil Kinnock this
:27:55. > :27:59.weekend. The cottage ocean provides, very sensibly, for a party in
:28:00. > :28:04.Parliament -- the constitution. And also provides that the leader of the
:28:05. > :28:07.party must have a substantial amount of backing from Labour members of
:28:08. > :28:15.Parliament. So who would resolve this dispute? This man, Ian McNicol.
:28:16. > :28:19.We have spoken to the former general secretary who told me he alone often
:28:20. > :28:26.made clear what the rules were in the past in similar circumstances.
:28:27. > :28:31.Reports suggest he has already received legal advice. What could
:28:32. > :28:36.that have been? We spoke to a lawyer who advises the Labour Party on
:28:37. > :28:39.issues like this. There is a clash of interpretation of the rules,
:28:40. > :28:46.they're not fully thought through and that has left an ambiguity which
:28:47. > :28:51.is why, as I understand it, the party and the newspapers are getting
:28:52. > :28:54.conflicting legal advice on this. Clear as mud then! If there are
:28:55. > :29:02.still doubts about the rules, then the ab initio to committee decides
:29:03. > :29:07.-- administrative committee. It is made of the trade unions, the
:29:08. > :29:13.socialist societies and black Asian and polarity representatives, the
:29:14. > :29:17.constituency Labour parties, evenly balanced and labour councillors who
:29:18. > :29:21.are not on the side of Jeremy Corbyn like the PLP members. Overall the
:29:22. > :29:24.estimate 60 members in favour and 17 against.
:29:25. > :29:28.To answer that, from the BBC's political research
:29:29. > :29:33.Hi, Mark, it is not as simple as that.
:29:34. > :29:36.It is not like a one member, one vote process where everyone puts
:29:37. > :29:41.Not even a big vote at the end of any NTC decision.
:29:42. > :29:45.It is a mixture of compromise and consensus.
:29:46. > :30:00.You need to win people over from different sections of the NEC.
:30:01. > :30:11.If they state that Jeremy Corbyn needs to find and emissions or not,
:30:12. > :30:16.that would probably be followed. If not then ultimately they could be a
:30:17. > :30:22.legal challenge by one side or the other and this might end up in the
:30:23. > :30:23.High Court. Now you can see what both sides want to avoid the need
:30:24. > :30:26.for an embarrassing showdown. And we've been joined from Glasgow
:30:27. > :30:31.by Rhea Wolfson who is standing for election to Labour's
:30:32. > :30:41.NEC this summer. At least four of the 40 MPs who
:30:42. > :30:46.backed Germany, McCutcheon Jeremy Corbyn have now changed their mind
:30:47. > :30:50.and think he should stand down, is in his position now not tenable?
:30:51. > :30:58.I think it is difficult and harmful to the party the way people are
:30:59. > :31:02.interacting. But I don't think it is untenable, as long as Jeremy sticks
:31:03. > :31:08.to the Prince was he stood for which is respect for the membership, and
:31:09. > :31:12.democracy. I hope the Parliamentary Labour Party also fall in ninth and
:31:13. > :31:16.recognise Jeremy is standing not just for himself but for the
:31:17. > :31:20.members. Isn't that a naive view. They won't
:31:21. > :31:25.fall in line. 80% are clear they want him to go.
:31:26. > :31:31.I think it is hopeful rather than naive.
:31:32. > :31:35.I have spent the last week travelling all over the country
:31:36. > :31:39.speaking to thousands of members as part of this campaign, and to talk
:31:40. > :31:45.about Jeremy Corbyn and the leadership. They are devastated.
:31:46. > :31:51.They hope as party activists they can continue advocating for the
:31:52. > :31:55.party. What evidence is there Jeremy Corbyn
:31:56. > :31:59.has lost the support of the Labour Party membership?
:32:00. > :32:04.Polling shows his support is collapsing.
:32:05. > :32:08.It doesn't show it is collapsing. The numbers who come up to me in the
:32:09. > :32:14.street and say, can't you get a new leader, the Labour Party is dying.
:32:15. > :32:21.In the last two meetings of the Parliamentary Labour Party, they
:32:22. > :32:25.were so passionate, so upset, so angry about Jeremy Corbyn's refusal
:32:26. > :32:33.to stand down. The rules as your film showed may be
:32:34. > :32:38.unclear and open to interpretation. What is not unclear if there is no
:32:39. > :32:43.confidence in Jeremy Corbyn in the Parliamentary Labour Party.
:32:44. > :32:48.He is now bound to maintain support of his MPs.
:32:49. > :32:53.He has lost that. Part of that is compounded by the degree of
:32:54. > :33:02.intimidation and abuse, the fear with which members, Labour MPs's
:33:03. > :33:04.staff coming to work every day, they fear the threat of intimidation and
:33:05. > :33:11.worse. Before that, members are equally
:33:12. > :33:18.upset, we hear, and devastated, by this challenge to Jeremy Corbyn who
:33:19. > :33:23.was democratically elected. Do you accept the party is split between
:33:24. > :33:27.the Parliamentary party and its membership?
:33:28. > :33:32.I don't. That presumes that Members of Parliament are not in touch with
:33:33. > :33:36.their members, engaging with their members every weekend. They were
:33:37. > :33:41.bringing back to the Parliamentary party last night and the week before
:33:42. > :33:45.the result of consultation with activists who overwhelmingly by
:33:46. > :33:48.their accounts one Jeremy Corbyn to do the decent thing for the Labour
:33:49. > :33:54.Party and stand down. What do you say about this anecdotal
:33:55. > :34:00.evidence and claims from MPs of intimidation and fear?
:34:01. > :34:04.If MPs are suffering this, it is not acceptable, it is not the mood I
:34:05. > :34:09.have seen at the meetings I have been to. It has been sadness and
:34:10. > :34:15.frustration but not intimidation or anger.
:34:16. > :34:21.Anecdotally the party is split. At the rallies we have been having,
:34:22. > :34:27.25,000 people have engaged, the membership has grown by over 60,000.
:34:28. > :34:33.Over half had joined to support Jeremy Corbyn. It is a fallacy to
:34:34. > :34:38.save his support is collapsing. Whilst I recognise there is a
:34:39. > :34:43.division, clearly the PLP are not listening to all their members.
:34:44. > :34:47.Angela Eagle, her local constituency passed a motion in support of Jeremy
:34:48. > :34:53.Corbyn. I feel frustrated and that is
:34:54. > :35:01.replicated across the country. What do you say? I talked to Angela,
:35:02. > :35:09.she faced homophobic abuse at that meeting. Talked to MPs around the
:35:10. > :35:12.country. Under the influence of momentum, activists and Members of
:35:13. > :35:20.Parliament and their staff are facing, day in, day out, harassment,
:35:21. > :35:25.and in some cases intimidation. And I famously remember, I was in
:35:26. > :35:29.the Labour Party fighting all this in the 1980s, that was militant
:35:30. > :35:36.then, it is momentum now, they are different RDs. But they are neither
:35:37. > :35:41.bodies respecting the wider electorate that monster see a Labour
:35:42. > :35:45.Government. That respect is slipping further and further. That is what
:35:46. > :35:48.was talked about last night at the Parliamentary Labour Party by Neil
:35:49. > :35:53.Kinnock. He knows about this from the 1980s,
:35:54. > :35:59.he reminded MPs that people in supermarkets told them Ed Miliband
:36:00. > :36:06.was not electable and asked to apply that supermarket test to Jeremy
:36:07. > :36:10.Corbyn, which he passed it? I think he would.
:36:11. > :36:17.You need to get out more. That is insulting that I am not on
:36:18. > :36:22.the doorstep. I am a party activist. I have been beside you, I have
:36:23. > :36:26.campaigned everywhere, in Scotland for the Scottish elections and
:36:27. > :36:31.working hard for the council elections. So do these momentum
:36:32. > :36:35.activists. They are not on the fringes of the party. Councillors
:36:36. > :36:39.and local representatives are involved. It is insulting to say
:36:40. > :36:43.otherwise. Do you agree if it carries on there
:36:44. > :36:49.will be a split because there is nothing to reconcile both sides of
:36:50. > :36:54.the party. Shouldn't it be a case that you and the MPs left and the
:36:55. > :36:58.Labour Party members form a new party? Or Tessa Jowell does the
:36:59. > :37:03.same. No, me and those of my politics are
:37:04. > :37:08.not leaving the Labour Party. We are here to make sure the Labour Party
:37:09. > :37:09.has a prospect of representing the people of this country in
:37:10. > :37:14.Government. What do you say?
:37:15. > :37:19.There should be no split in the party, it would be devastating for
:37:20. > :37:24.those who need a Labour Government. I am devastated we are not governing
:37:25. > :37:29.at the moment. It is really sad. I don't want a split.
:37:30. > :37:33.You wouldn't suggest there should be some declaration of Independence by
:37:34. > :37:37.MPs against Jeremy Corbyn. There would be more of you, you could set
:37:38. > :37:44.up in opposition. This reminds me of a great
:37:45. > :37:48.decoration of Ted Knight Way back in the early 1980s when he stood up at
:37:49. > :37:52.a public meeting and said there can be no compromise with the
:37:53. > :37:56.electorate. It is the people of this country who want a Labour Party they
:37:57. > :38:01.can believe in, who are being so badly let down by Jeremy Corbyn's
:38:02. > :38:08.refusal to do the decent thing in the interests of our party.
:38:09. > :38:14.Rhea Wolfson, we know there will be another plea for him to go.
:38:15. > :38:19.I hope the unions continue to support Jeremy Corbyn. And I will
:38:20. > :38:20.stand by him as he continues to represent the membership of the
:38:21. > :38:22.Labour Party. While much of Westminster is focused
:38:23. > :38:25.on the small matter of who should be the Prime Minister and Leader
:38:26. > :38:27.Of The Opposition, teachers across England are out
:38:28. > :38:31.on a one-day strike. The National Union Of Teachers
:38:32. > :38:33.called the strike over pay, Our education dditor
:38:34. > :38:45.Branwen Jeffreys joins us 3000 teachers have set off on a
:38:46. > :38:49.march through the city. Is there anything different to this strike
:38:50. > :38:53.and to previous one-day strikes by teachers?
:38:54. > :38:58.The focus of all the teachers who set off if you minutes ago from
:38:59. > :39:03.here, several hundreds of them, is mainly about education funding. They
:39:04. > :39:05.point to figures from the Independent Institute for fiscal in
:39:06. > :39:09.which show although the amount of money spent on schools is going up,
:39:10. > :39:14.the amount per pupil is going to fall over the next few years. They
:39:15. > :39:20.say that is leading to job losses with more expected in the future,
:39:21. > :39:31.and bigger class sizes. Just a quarter of the new team members
:39:32. > :39:33.actually voted in the ballot other amongst those who did the support
:39:34. > :39:36.was overwhelming. Why was it such a low turnout in
:39:37. > :39:38.terms of the ones who decided to take part in the ballot if there is
:39:39. > :39:41.such strength of feeling about educating -- education funding?
:39:42. > :39:48.It is an exceptionally low turnout, there is a dispute with the
:39:49. > :39:54.Government, and the NAS UWT. Some are waiting for the pay review body
:39:55. > :39:56.on what they should be paid, to come back.
:39:57. > :40:00.I understand that could be in the next couple of days, many teachers
:40:01. > :40:03.will be waiting to see what the offer is from the Government
:40:04. > :40:06.although we know pay restraint across the public sector remains in
:40:07. > :40:10.place. There is no doubt some of the
:40:11. > :40:14.concerns are more widely shared. Initial information from around the
:40:15. > :40:17.country is quite a lot of schools are open and this strike is quite
:40:18. > :40:21.patchy. Perhaps some teachers don't feel
:40:22. > :40:26.motivated enough at the moment to come out on strike on these issues.
:40:27. > :40:31.One other interesting thing this morning we had BMA junior doctors
:40:32. > :40:35.representatives who are themselves balloting on their own industrial
:40:36. > :40:39.action, here in support of the entity.
:40:40. > :40:40.There was a time when the BMA and a new would have been unlikely
:40:41. > :40:41.bedfellows. We've been joined by the acting
:40:42. > :40:44.general secretary of the National Union of Teachers,
:40:45. > :40:46.Kevin Courtney, and by Toby Young, who set up
:40:47. > :40:49.a Free School in west London. We also asked the Department
:40:50. > :40:51.for Education for an interview with a minister, but none
:40:52. > :41:02.was available. Kevin Courtney, are you playing
:41:03. > :41:07.politics with children's future as the Education Secretary has said?
:41:08. > :41:11.Not at all, we are reticulated a demand, we are on strike for our
:41:12. > :41:17.young people. We are hearing stories of schools were class sizes are
:41:18. > :41:20.going up to 35, where art, dance, drama teachers are being made
:41:21. > :41:26.redundant and not replaced, where the subjects on a longer offered in
:41:27. > :41:29.secondary schools. Where classroom assistants are being dismissed,
:41:30. > :41:37.where individual attention to children is going down. It is making
:41:38. > :41:40.life hard for our young people and their headteachers.
:41:41. > :41:43.Why only 24% of your membership have taken part?
:41:44. > :41:50.That is a good question, the 92% was a high majority.
:41:51. > :41:55.Of the 24%. That shows we are on the right issue. It is a big sample. A
:41:56. > :42:00.lot of people are supporting it. About 6000 people have joined the
:42:01. > :42:09.union since announcing the strike. It is a low turnout. We want to do
:42:10. > :42:14.electronic balloting. The fundamental question is teachers
:42:15. > :42:17.don't think we can win. It is the right issue but they are not
:42:18. > :42:24.convinced we can win. Let us talk about the funding, these
:42:25. > :42:29.warnings that spending per pupil, not overall spending, in schools in
:42:30. > :42:32.England is likely to fall by 8% in real terms.
:42:33. > :42:37.What do you say? Education is one of the department
:42:38. > :42:44.that has been ring-fenced. That is the overall envelope.
:42:45. > :42:48.Along with international and health. The IFS percolated spending on
:42:49. > :42:53.schools increased by 3% in real terms.
:42:54. > :42:57.I have asked you per pupil. I want you to answer the question
:42:58. > :43:01.about per-pupil funding. With your experience at the London free
:43:02. > :43:04.school, there is an increase in pupil numbers and there are rising
:43:05. > :43:09.costs. The envelope may be going up, but
:43:10. > :43:11.not keeping pace with the other costs.
:43:12. > :43:19.The rising costs are not to do with cuts in the school budget but mainly
:43:20. > :43:23.to do with increasing obligations on schools to contribute to NI
:43:24. > :43:29.cogitations and pensions. And the public sector pay freeze which seems
:43:30. > :43:36.reasonable given inflation is at zero. I accept there will be some
:43:37. > :43:41.real terms cuts. One thing I would say in response is that there is
:43:42. > :43:46.very little international evidence to link spending per pupil with
:43:47. > :43:50.pupil outcomes. The head of the programme for
:43:51. > :43:55.International student assessment said variation in spending per pupil
:43:56. > :44:02.only accounted for 20% in variation in pupil outcomes because it mainly
:44:03. > :44:07.means, the increase, almost double the expenditure on schools since
:44:08. > :44:12.1997, has meant smaller class sizes. There was no link between pupil
:44:13. > :44:20.outcomes and class sizes. If we don't have dance, drama, arts
:44:21. > :44:25.teachers, there will be no GCSEs in those subjects. There is a big link
:44:26. > :44:28.with exam grades. We are talking about spending per
:44:29. > :44:33.pupil. If you increase that significantly,
:44:34. > :44:38.do the outcomes improve? Look at the results in London where
:44:39. > :44:44.spending per pupil is higher. There is a pronounced link.
:44:45. > :44:48.Toby is a bright the charges on schools is pronounced, national
:44:49. > :44:51.insurance and pension conclusions. These school governing body at your
:44:52. > :44:57.school will have to find her every 20 teachers an extra teacher's
:44:58. > :45:02.salary to pay back to the Treasury when the Treasury is freezing the
:45:03. > :45:06.per-pupil money. That is the cause of teachers being sacked, arts
:45:07. > :45:12.teachers, the cause of last sizes going up. I have heard the argument
:45:13. > :45:16.class size does not matter, that is not correct. People who pay for
:45:17. > :45:21.private education are paying for smaller class sizes.
:45:22. > :45:25.They are being ripped off. When teacher shortage is so pronounced
:45:26. > :45:30.because of unnecessary workload, if you increase class sizes, you
:45:31. > :45:34.increase that workload. There is strong evidence from
:45:35. > :45:35.schools locally to me in London they are struggling to recruit in those
:45:36. > :45:49.subjects. That is reality. In my school is there a four
:45:50. > :45:55.squalls, not one, we haven't fired any music or drama teachers, they
:45:56. > :45:58.are both thriving as departments. I think my main bone of contention
:45:59. > :46:05.with you is not that there aren't good to be real term cuts... There
:46:06. > :46:09.is going to be a squeeze. My issue is, when has a one-day wildcat
:46:10. > :46:13.strike like this ever achieved anything? The NUT is already having
:46:14. > :46:19.constructive talks with Nicky Morgan, she is really working with
:46:20. > :46:22.you on reducing teacher workload, she has published three reports, we
:46:23. > :46:27.know that the strikes never achieve anything, why break off talks on its
:46:28. > :46:33.going reasonably well? It's not going reasonably well at all. It's
:46:34. > :46:39.important we are taking action now. The origination of this action
:46:40. > :46:42.cannot with the break-up of pay and academising across the country. We
:46:43. > :46:48.have asked Nicky Morgan for evidence that any other country does that,
:46:49. > :46:52.any other high performing education jurisdiction, none of them have,
:46:53. > :46:59.Finland, South Korea, Singapore. There is no evidence base. Can you
:47:00. > :47:03.achieve anything? I think we can. The reason for our turnout being
:47:04. > :47:05.reasonably low is because members think we can't but we are very
:47:06. > :47:13.messages of support from thousands of parents, from a group called Mr
:47:14. > :47:14.Our Schools, parents understand we are raising issues that matter to
:47:15. > :47:19.them. Tomorrow Sir John Chilcot
:47:20. > :47:21.will finally publish his report into the UK's involvement
:47:22. > :47:23.in the 2003 Iraq War. It's a significant moment -
:47:24. > :47:26.with many people expecting it to provide a definitive verdict
:47:27. > :47:29.on Tony Blair's role in taking the country to war
:47:30. > :47:32.against Saddam Hussain. In a moment we'll discuss
:47:33. > :47:34.the potential impact First though, here's
:47:35. > :47:38.a reminder of what Sir John What I was saying to President Bush
:47:39. > :49:15.it is very clear and simple. It is, you can count on us, we will
:49:16. > :49:18.be with you in tackling this, I was having to persuade him to take
:49:19. > :49:22.a view radically different from many of the people
:49:23. > :49:25.in his administration. So what I was saying
:49:26. > :49:27.to him is, I'm going to be I'm not going to push you down this
:49:28. > :49:33.path, and then back out when it gets too hot politically,
:49:34. > :49:53.because it is going to get hot I haven't seen the report, nobody
:49:54. > :49:59.has, we will know tomorrow. As Sir John Chilcot said, the purpose of
:50:00. > :50:07.the report was to understand the lessons of Iraq and I think by
:50:08. > :50:15.general consent, the controversy with hindsight about the invasion of
:50:16. > :50:20.Iraq has affected... It's almost paralysed our foreign policy since
:50:21. > :50:28.that time. So I hope that what Sir John Chilcot will do is to, with the
:50:29. > :50:35.informed benefit of hindsight, be very clear about what kind of
:50:36. > :50:42.foresight planning we fail to take proper account. I think that again,
:50:43. > :50:51.I was a member of the Cabinet that supported the innovation because of
:50:52. > :50:55.all the evidence, what is clear that we were not nearly sufficiently
:50:56. > :51:04.involved and engaged with planning the aftermath. This is clear and
:51:05. > :51:08.there is consensus... I think the charge that people like Jeremy
:51:09. > :51:12.Corbyn and John McDonnell will be looking at is whether Tony Blair had
:51:13. > :51:17.already decided and agreed with George Bush to go to war. Let me
:51:18. > :51:21.make a point about that. We have at an earlier discussion about why
:51:22. > :51:28.Jeremy Corbyn is not standing down and so forth. It is the purpose of
:51:29. > :51:34.Jeremy Corbyn's life's mission to be able to denounce Tony Blair as of
:51:35. > :51:40.the criminal tomorrow. That is, I believe, a large part of what he
:51:41. > :51:45.wants to hang on. I hope that Sir John Chilcot's report will give us
:51:46. > :51:49.very clear exposition of what happened, interpretation of what
:51:50. > :51:57.happens, but also will point to the future framing of decisions about
:51:58. > :52:06.foreign policy, about engagement with governments in supporting
:52:07. > :52:10.action against the radical regimes and so on -- tyrannical regimes. But
:52:11. > :52:14.is the future policy for intervention, which has so paralysed
:52:15. > :52:17.not just our government but governments around the world,
:52:18. > :52:23.sometimes to the great detriment of countries that might have benefited?
:52:24. > :52:28.Let's be very clear, Jeremy Corbyn wants to tell Sir Tony Blair that he
:52:29. > :52:34.is a war criminal. They will be those that oppose him in that. I can
:52:35. > :52:37.only say they have to have evidence from the report, don't believe that
:52:38. > :52:44.evidence will be there. Sir John Chilcot has already made clear that
:52:45. > :52:47.part of his remit is not to judge the legality. We will find out
:52:48. > :52:48.tomorrow. Now it's time to find out
:52:49. > :52:51.the answer to our quiz. When Nigel Farage infamously
:52:52. > :52:54.insulted the then European Council President Herman Van Rompuy in 2010,
:52:55. > :53:02.what did he NOT accuse him of? b) Having the "charisma
:53:03. > :53:07.of a damp rag". c) Being akin to a "low-grade bank
:53:08. > :53:21.clerk". I think he has usually those in
:53:22. > :53:27.relation to different people! You are right, but which one did he not
:53:28. > :53:35.attached to Herman Van Rompuy? Didn't he say that he had the
:53:36. > :53:42.charisma of a damp rag? He did... It was the first one, never have a
:53:43. > :53:43.proper job. All the others he did a tribute to Herman Van Rompuy.
:53:44. > :53:47.speech to the President Of The European Council and former
:53:48. > :53:49.Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy, Nigel Farage
:53:50. > :53:52.said Mr Van Rompuy had "the charisma of a damp rag",
:53:53. > :53:54.was akin to a "low-grade bank clerk", and came
:53:55. > :53:58.Last week, after the UK voted to leave the EU,
:53:59. > :54:00.Nigel Farage used a speech in the European Parliament
:54:01. > :54:04."Virtually none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives."
:54:05. > :54:07.Let's take a look at that clip and some other highlights
:54:08. > :54:16.from Nigel Farage's time at the top of Ukip.
:54:17. > :54:27.It seems to me that you have given away ?7 million of British taxpayers
:54:28. > :54:31.money for nothing in return. Use it with our country flag, did not
:54:32. > :54:47.represent our country's interests. -- use it.
:54:48. > :54:54.They all look a little bit like goldfish. That have just been tipped
:54:55. > :54:59.out of the ball onto the floor. Desperately gasping for air and
:55:00. > :55:07.clinging on to the comfort blanket that is, this is a protest vote.
:55:08. > :55:13.This is number one! The world's greatest leader!
:55:14. > :55:22.I am a man of my work, don't Break my word so I shall be writing to the
:55:23. > :55:27.Ukip National executive in a few minutes, saying that I am standing
:55:28. > :55:32.down as leader of Ukip. Isn't it funny? When I came here 17 years ago
:55:33. > :55:37.and I said that I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the
:55:38. > :55:41.European Union, you all laughed at me. Well I have to say, you're not
:55:42. > :55:45.laughing now, are you? So, with Nigel Farage standing
:55:46. > :55:47.down as Ukip leader, who will be the next to run
:55:48. > :55:50.the UK Independence Party We've been joined by the party's
:55:51. > :55:54.former deputy chairman Suzanne Evans, who is currently
:55:55. > :56:04.suspended from the party. Did you expect him to stand down?
:56:05. > :56:08.No, I was surprised but I understand why, the latest in his lifetime
:56:09. > :56:10.ambition to get us out of the European Union, now we have this
:56:11. > :56:18.momentous vote which will stand, let's be clear about that. So yes,
:56:19. > :56:22.out on a high, why not? Most political careers don't and like
:56:23. > :56:28.that. Will he keep out of the spotlight? I very much doubt it. I
:56:29. > :56:32.think whoever takes over as leader of Ukip will perhaps believe his
:56:33. > :56:36.input. Except he clashed with all the major party figures including
:56:37. > :56:42.yourself, Douglas Carswell, Patrick Fling and Neil Hamilton, will it be
:56:43. > :56:47.less divisive without him? I think it will. Nigel is a Marmite
:56:48. > :56:54.character, I think now for the leader, we need somebody who is more
:56:55. > :56:57.embracing, who shows it's not a one-man and order a single issue
:56:58. > :57:01.party, and also a party that attracts more women. By looking
:57:02. > :57:09.behind you, you see, neither did have an all-male team very often.
:57:10. > :57:15.What about you? You were suspended for the moment, what about you? I
:57:16. > :57:19.hope the party might overturn my suspension to allow me to stand. I
:57:20. > :57:24.always said if he stood down I would like to have a go at it and I think
:57:25. > :57:27.it's a shame I find myself in this position of being suspended,
:57:28. > :57:32.apparently for criticising a homophobic candidate, not something
:57:33. > :57:38.most people would think would be a disloyal thing to do in politics, so
:57:39. > :57:44.I hope I can be on the ballot paper. What is happening in the suspension?
:57:45. > :57:50.I did appeal, but it became clear early on that the appeal panel had
:57:51. > :57:53.already prejudge the outcome. When I was originally suspended I wasn't
:57:54. > :57:57.allowed to put any evidence to the panel to defend myself, I wasn't
:57:58. > :58:03.even there, it looked like it would be a repeat of the same. So I have
:58:04. > :58:06.actually withdrawn from that appeal. We shall see. I getting support from
:58:07. > :58:11.people who want me to be on the ballot paper, e-mails, phone calls,
:58:12. > :58:18.we shall see. I hope the party does the right thing. And if not EU, who
:58:19. > :58:22.would you back? I am not going to say, I want to see who puts
:58:23. > :58:27.themselves forward and what policies, I don't want someone to
:58:28. > :58:32.take over Ukip and taken to the far right, we need a more common sense,
:58:33. > :58:39.centre ground party who can afford to conservative voters in the south
:58:40. > :58:40.and Labour voters in the North. There is your pitch for the
:58:41. > :58:42.leadership! You heard it here first! Thanks to Tessa Jowell
:58:43. > :58:45.and all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting
:58:46. > :58:52.over on BBC One now. I'll be back at 11.30 tomorrow
:58:53. > :58:58.with Andrew for live coverage Dip into a summer of
:58:59. > :59:07.amazing live music,