:00:38. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:45.reported Andrea Leadsom is to pull out of the race to become
:00:46. > :00:48.Conservative leader and Prime Minister.
:00:49. > :00:51.Mrs Leadsom had faced criticism over the weekend after appearing
:00:52. > :00:57.to suggest she'd make a better leader because she's a mother.
:00:58. > :01:01.We'll have the latest reaction to this breaking story.
:01:02. > :01:03.Angela Eagle is preparing to challenge Jeremy Corbyn
:01:04. > :01:09.His supporters say party members will elect him again -
:01:10. > :01:14.but will he automatically get on the ballot?
:01:15. > :01:17.Tony Blair was not on trial and the Chilcot report passed no
:01:18. > :01:19.verdict on his guilt - but could the Prime Minister
:01:20. > :01:30.who took us into the Iraq War now be held in contempt of parliament?
:01:31. > :01:33.And promises and predictions - who will hold the rival camps
:01:34. > :01:35.to account for the promises and predictions made
:01:36. > :01:45.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole
:01:46. > :01:47.of the programme today Conservative MP and former deputy speaker
:01:48. > :01:50.of the House of Commons, Nigel Evans, and the former
:01:51. > :01:54.Labour Leadership hopeful Chuka Umuna.
:01:55. > :02:03.First this morning that breaking news that Andrea Leadsom
:02:04. > :02:08.is preparing to pull out of the Conservative leadership race.
:02:09. > :02:16.Laura, this is incredible. This is the latest and very dramatic turn of
:02:17. > :02:21.events after a fast-moving weekend of news developments. What has
:02:22. > :02:26.happened? Just when you think you might be able to pause for breath
:02:27. > :02:29.for a single second around an hour and a half ago someone suggested to
:02:30. > :02:35.me it might be worth watching very carefully what Andrea Leadsom was
:02:36. > :02:39.going to be doing today. I suppose my hackles rose like any reporter.
:02:40. > :02:42.She has had a bumpy couple of days after the story in The Times
:02:43. > :02:46.newspaper and Morgan Quaintance suggested she had taken what has
:02:47. > :02:49.happened in the last couple of days so seriously and found the first few
:02:50. > :02:54.days of the leadership race a bruising and so difficult that I
:02:55. > :02:57.understand just in the last 24 hours she has decided to quit. That of
:02:58. > :03:03.course will be a disappointment for many of her supporters, people who
:03:04. > :03:07.had grown to know her and admire her to the course of the EU referendum
:03:08. > :03:13.campaign. More to the point, the big picture is however difficult we will
:03:14. > :03:16.hear it has been for Andrea Leadsom when she comes out in ten minutes or
:03:17. > :03:21.so, this could mean that subject to how the Tory party decides to
:03:22. > :03:24.proceed, potentially within days Theresa May will be installed as
:03:25. > :03:28.Prime Minister. And she will move into Number Ten Downing St and David
:03:29. > :03:33.Cameron will move out. In 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers has
:03:34. > :03:38.got to decide exactly what happens next. But it seems this means rather
:03:39. > :03:42.than there being a contest and rather than Tory members or anyone
:03:43. > :03:47.around the country having a say, that Theresa May will be subject to
:03:48. > :03:51.a coronation, something that she herself said she did not want to
:03:52. > :03:54.happen. But people do talk about it because she was so far ahead in
:03:55. > :03:58.terms of support within her own party. And she's the only one
:03:59. > :04:04.remaining if Andrea Leadsom says she is dropping out of the race. Do you
:04:05. > :04:08.expect her to make a statement right there for your standing? Expect that
:04:09. > :04:12.at about 12:15pm that she will confirm that she is running out.
:04:13. > :04:17.There had been suggestions that Theresa May should not be the only
:04:18. > :04:23.candidate, she has the overwhelming backing of Tory MPs, almost 200 of
:04:24. > :04:26.them, 60% or so of the Parliamentary party voted for her in the second
:04:27. > :04:31.ballot and they have even been a tradition begun by some Conservative
:04:32. > :04:37.MPs, including Grant Shapps, who was trying to press for this idea of a
:04:38. > :04:42.coronation. If the political moments that we are in, it is because of
:04:43. > :04:48.that, but this is not normal given that just two weeks or so ago, we
:04:49. > :04:53.voted to leave the European Union. We are at a historical junction and
:04:54. > :04:57.that is where the demand for Theresa May just to take over immediately
:04:58. > :05:02.came from. As I say it will be for the 1922 Committee, the internal
:05:03. > :05:07.backbench group of MPs, to decide what the next move is if as we
:05:08. > :05:13.expect, and as this press pack expect, Andrea Leadsom comes out to
:05:14. > :05:16.confirm that she's the race. Many people were disappointed and upset
:05:17. > :05:19.that David Cameron decided immediately that he would step down,
:05:20. > :05:27.the expectation of course is he would stay until September. Once the
:05:28. > :05:30.contest was over. It now seems strange if he then extends that,
:05:31. > :05:35.even though it now is clear that we're going have Theresa May as the
:05:36. > :05:44.next Prime Minister, why not just hand over immediately? Yes, I just
:05:45. > :05:49.lost those last couple of words, but extraordinary to think that just
:05:50. > :05:52.three weeks ago David Cameron repeatedly said, I will not resign
:05:53. > :05:56.if I lose the referendum, there will be no need for me to go. Senior
:05:57. > :05:59.colleagues on both sides of the EU debate said that, that he did not
:06:00. > :06:03.need to quit, even if the two modules referendum result meant
:06:04. > :06:07.leaving the EU. But how wrong they were. He changed his mind, they
:06:08. > :06:12.changed their minds, and now it appears the extent of the shake-up
:06:13. > :06:14.that the referendum has caused right across British politics has upended
:06:15. > :06:18.everything. There will now be no contest. There are of course
:06:19. > :06:24.leadership contest going on all over the place, arguably also the result
:06:25. > :06:28.of the referendum. But for the Tories, there will now just the
:06:29. > :06:32.succession, a handover to Theresa May rather than a contest. I
:06:33. > :06:35.understand from Andrea Leadsom, the main reason she will give today is
:06:36. > :06:41.the pressure and what she sees as the abuse she has been given before,
:06:42. > :06:44.as she decided to run. Of course critics will say if she could not
:06:45. > :06:48.take the pressure of the early days of the leadership campaign, it is
:06:49. > :06:51.not likely she would have been able to handle the pressure of being
:06:52. > :06:55.Prime Minister very well. We will here in a few minutes her
:06:56. > :06:58.explanation in her own words. We are going to hear from her but Kelis a
:06:59. > :07:03.bit about interest you where she made those comments about being a
:07:04. > :07:06.mother and that somehow she would have a greater stake in the future
:07:07. > :07:09.of the country. Theresa May does not have children. That that led to the
:07:10. > :07:17.abuse that this became overwhelming for her. On Friday night The Times
:07:18. > :07:21.newspaper had a dramatic headline following a very long interview one
:07:22. > :07:26.of the senior columnists had carried out with Andrea Leadsom. In that
:07:27. > :07:31.interview she suggested that she had a very real stake in the future
:07:32. > :07:36.because she has a large family. She has talked repeatedly about herself
:07:37. > :07:39.as a mother and grandmother, she has talked about that a lot. When she
:07:40. > :07:45.was invited to suggest comparisons between herself and Theresa May, she
:07:46. > :07:50.was asked why she would be a more persuasive candidate. She suggested
:07:51. > :07:56.that part of that was because of her position as a mother as someone with
:07:57. > :08:00.that kind of empathy and that kind of sympathy. She also said in that
:08:01. > :08:04.interview that she did not want that to become a factor in the leadership
:08:05. > :08:10.campaign, in fact she said it would be horrible people made that an
:08:11. > :08:14.issue in the campaign. But the diplomatic version upset about this
:08:15. > :08:19.is that at best she was being naive. She was not misquoted, her problem
:08:20. > :08:22.was she did not like the way that the Times newspaper had used the
:08:23. > :08:28.comment she made in that lengthy interview. So strange 48 hours, and
:08:29. > :08:33.The Times newspaper even had their journalist out defending the way
:08:34. > :08:36.they used. But for Andrea Leadsom it was probably part of what had been a
:08:37. > :08:42.couple of days of not unusual, but quite bruising encounters with the
:08:43. > :08:49.press. We are just keeping an eye, I think she's about to come out. As
:08:50. > :08:57.soon as she comes out we will duck out of the way. We will carry on
:08:58. > :09:01.talking while she prepares to come out. Here are some members of her
:09:02. > :09:05.team. We expect her to come out in the next couple of minutes. Stay
:09:06. > :09:09.with us but I go first to studio guests while we wait for Andrea
:09:10. > :09:13.Leadsom to come out. Thank you very much for the moment. John Redwood,
:09:14. > :09:19.who supported the leadership of Andrea Leadsom is here. Your
:09:20. > :09:22.reaction? Congratulations to Theresa May and I wish you every success as
:09:23. > :09:26.leader and Prime Minister. I hope she will take on board the things
:09:27. > :09:30.that most excited me about the Andrea Leadsom campaign, one is
:09:31. > :09:33.economic optimism, we have a number of policies and measures but we want
:09:34. > :09:39.the bank and the government to take urgently. The other was a speedy and
:09:40. > :09:45.sensible exit from the EU, by means of primary legislation, sorting out
:09:46. > :09:51.borders the same time. And I would recommend that strongly to her, if
:09:52. > :09:55.she wants to build a united party, we had a voice and a point and I
:09:56. > :09:59.hope that she will take that on board. There is Bernard Jenkin, in
:10:00. > :10:05.Duncan Smith, close supporters of Andrea Leadsom. It looks as if
:10:06. > :10:09.they're lining up outside. And presumably Andrea Leadsom will
:10:10. > :10:13.appear in front of them and the gathered press to talk about why she
:10:14. > :10:19.has decided to pull out at this critical time of the and in fact has
:10:20. > :10:23.left the path open for Theresa May to some extent to be anointed as the
:10:24. > :10:29.next Conservative leader and Prime Minister. What we do not know at the
:10:30. > :10:38.moment exactly is how the process will unfold. And we have yet to hear
:10:39. > :10:41.probably from the 1922 chair. The sooner the better, I hope, the
:10:42. > :10:46.advantage is that we foreshortened the debate. That will have to be
:10:47. > :10:50.confirmed. Of course we hope to hear from Graham Brady, head of the 1922
:10:51. > :10:54.Committee that he will be able to plant exactly what will happen. He
:10:55. > :10:59.will probably make a statement at around 12:30pm outside the Houses of
:11:00. > :11:04.Parliament. And that will set out and clarify exactly what will
:11:05. > :11:11.happen. Let's see if this is Andrea Leadsom. No, more of her supporters
:11:12. > :11:15.coming out. Tim Walton, I do not think they can fit that many more
:11:16. > :11:19.people on the steps! This was the decision that she made overnight.
:11:20. > :11:25.She has not had that much time to think about it. As we heard from our
:11:26. > :11:29.political editor the abuse that followed the interview that she gave
:11:30. > :11:34.at the weekend seemed to have become too great for her. And the scrutiny
:11:35. > :11:38.would have continued as would be expected of someone who wants to be
:11:39. > :11:42.Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party. Let's see if
:11:43. > :11:54.this is Andrea Leadsom. Yes. Let's hear what she has decided. Good
:11:55. > :12:00.morning. Good morning, everyone. This morning I have written a letter
:12:01. > :12:05.to Graham Brady the chair of the 1922 Committee, and I would like to
:12:06. > :12:13.read it to you. The best interests of our country inspired me to stand
:12:14. > :12:18.for the leadership. I believe that in leading -- leaving the EU, a
:12:19. > :12:21.bright future awaits were all our people can share in a new
:12:22. > :12:27.prosperity, freedom and democracy. The referendum result demonstrated a
:12:28. > :12:31.clear desire for change. Strong leadership is needed urgently to
:12:32. > :12:37.begin the work of withdrawing from the European Union. Nine weeks
:12:38. > :12:43.leadership campaign at such a critical moment for our country is
:12:44. > :12:52.highly undesirable. Business needs certainty. A strong and unified
:12:53. > :12:56.government must move quickly to set out what an independent, United
:12:57. > :13:05.Kingdom framework for business looks like. It is also essential that
:13:06. > :13:10.current EU workers in the UK and the businesses that employ them know
:13:11. > :13:15.where they stand. The Conservative Party was elected only last year
:13:16. > :13:19.with a strong manifesto of the we now need a new Prime Minister in
:13:20. > :13:24.place as soon as possible, committed to fulfilling that manifesto as well
:13:25. > :13:30.as implementing the clear instructions from the referendum.
:13:31. > :13:35.Theresa May carries over 60% of support from the Parliamentary
:13:36. > :13:39.party. She is ideally placed to implement Brexit on the best
:13:40. > :13:45.possible terms for the British people. And she has promised that
:13:46. > :13:50.she will do so. For me personally to have won the support of 84 of my
:13:51. > :13:56.colleagues last Thursday was a great expression of confidence for which I
:13:57. > :14:02.am incredibly grateful. Nevertheless this is less than 25% of the
:14:03. > :14:07.Parliamentary party and after careful consideration I do not
:14:08. > :14:11.believe that this is sufficient support to lead a strong and stable
:14:12. > :14:18.government, should I win the leadership election. There is no
:14:19. > :14:21.greater privilege than to lead the Conservative Party in government.
:14:22. > :14:28.And I would have been deeply honoured to do it. I have however
:14:29. > :14:34.concluded that the interests of our country are best served by the
:14:35. > :14:39.immediate appointment of a strong and well supported Prime Minister.
:14:40. > :14:42.I'm therefore withdrawing from the leadership election and I wish
:14:43. > :14:45.Theresa May the very greatest success. I assure her of my full
:14:46. > :15:02.support. Thank you very much. Her Andrea Leadsom, was it a mistake
:15:03. > :15:08.to run? Why have you changed your mind, Mrs Leadsom? Andrea Leadsom
:15:09. > :15:12.giving a statement it up she read out the letters she has sent to the
:15:13. > :15:16.chairman of the 1922 committee, who will be the person who will announce
:15:17. > :15:20.the timetable that will lead to Theresa May becoming leader of the
:15:21. > :15:23.party and then Prime Minister. To take you through some of the
:15:24. > :15:27.comments she made, she said that having left the EU, or the British
:15:28. > :15:30.people having decided to leave the EU, a bright future awaits and
:15:31. > :15:37.strong leadership is needed. She said she felt the mind week campaign
:15:38. > :15:40.would be highly undesirable because business needs certainty. -- nine
:15:41. > :15:43.week. She has changed around him and slightly because she felt that
:15:44. > :15:46.actually it would have been fine to spend a few months with a leadership
:15:47. > :15:50.contest that would have been but at the grassroots but lets talk to
:15:51. > :15:54.Laura Coombs BOE, our political editor, who was trying to ask some
:15:55. > :16:00.questions of Andrea Leadsom. -- Laura Coombs Berg. If you can hear
:16:01. > :16:03.me, what did you make of the reasons she gave in terms of saying that
:16:04. > :16:06.long campaign would have been undesirable when what the country
:16:07. > :16:13.needs is strongly do ship, and business needs certainty? I think as
:16:14. > :16:16.ever, I suspect there will be public reasons and private reasons. Her
:16:17. > :16:19.public reasons were very clear. She said that a long contest, nine weeks
:16:20. > :16:23.stretching out over the summer, was not the right thing the moment for
:16:24. > :16:27.the country and in the wake of our vote to leave the European Union,
:16:28. > :16:32.and she referred to Theresa May having the overwhelming backing of
:16:33. > :16:37.Conservative MPs, over 60% of them, and that will have weighed on Andrea
:16:38. > :16:40.Leadsom's mine. Privately, people who are close to her have told me
:16:41. > :16:44.this morning that the abuse she felt she had been getting from some of
:16:45. > :16:47.her colleagues and the press attention had been too much. As ever
:16:48. > :16:52.in politics, there will be a combination of reasons that changed
:16:53. > :16:57.her mind but in Andrea Leadsom's words, she wants a swift appointment
:16:58. > :17:01.of Theresa May to become an extra minister and she has decided to
:17:02. > :17:04.withdraw from the race. Laura Kuenssberg, thank you very much. We
:17:05. > :17:08.will let you try to get some work that of Andrea Leadsom.
:17:09. > :17:12.John Redwood, you must have been disappointed. She was your woman and
:17:13. > :17:15.she has stood down. I am disappointed but it shows why I
:17:16. > :17:26.like. Decent and honest and cheese but the national interest before her
:17:27. > :17:31.own ambitions. -- she has put. Her campaign, supported by me, was about
:17:32. > :17:35.early and smooth exit from the EU by an international legislation, not
:17:36. > :17:39.getting too entangled in all these procedures that the EU wants to
:17:40. > :17:42.enforce on us, and being optimistic when there is blended to be
:17:43. > :17:46.optimistic about an economic prospects and cheaper bows first and
:17:47. > :17:51.foremost. Was she naive to run in the first place? The abuse that you
:17:52. > :17:56.been talking about and the unhappiness about quite a lot of
:17:57. > :17:59.Tory MPs is a factor because we've seen what happens in the Labour
:18:00. > :18:02.Party when the MPs don't agree with the members of the view of the
:18:03. > :18:06.number should. She was very worried that she would win the membership,
:18:07. > :18:10.which she might well have done, but not carried of the MPs with her and
:18:11. > :18:14.makes it very difficult. Should she have run in the first place? Did she
:18:15. > :18:18.not have enough experience? Was naive to think that she could have a
:18:19. > :18:20.chance at not just leading the party by becoming Prime Minister? Very
:18:21. > :18:26.different from David Cameron and other leaders who have become leader
:18:27. > :18:30.and become Leader of the Opposition? I believe in democratic petition and
:18:31. > :18:34.I don't expect to be on the winning side. I have been on the losing side
:18:35. > :18:36.are great number of times. It is a way of making your case and
:18:37. > :18:40.influencing policy and we now wish to convert this into a win for the
:18:41. > :18:43.nation because the main points she was putting forward are vital to a
:18:44. > :18:49.successful Premiership by Theresa May, which is what we now all wish
:18:50. > :18:54.for. Nigel Evans, she did say very clearly in that letter that she read
:18:55. > :19:00.out that Theresa May is ideally placed to execute Brexit, and she
:19:01. > :19:05.has promised to do so. In that is an implicit threat, isn't there, but
:19:06. > :19:09.you have promised to do, even as a remain in the EU referendum, but you
:19:10. > :19:12.have promised, Theresa May, to do the right thing and carry out the
:19:13. > :19:17.will of the people. Did you sense that from her comments? Absolutely.
:19:18. > :19:22.I spoke to Theresa may just over a week ago and I talked to her about
:19:23. > :19:26.Brexit. I'm a Brexiteer and I want to see this happen as quickly as
:19:27. > :19:28.possible. I want to see the wishes of the British people carried out
:19:29. > :19:32.and I got that commitment from Theresa and that's why I was happy
:19:33. > :19:35.to support Theresa May. She said she is going to but a Brexiteer in
:19:36. > :19:40.charge of the withdrawal of the European Union. That now needs to
:19:41. > :19:45.happen. And this expression is Nigel being gobsmacked. Who says politics
:19:46. > :19:48.is boring? At the moment, I would not want to predict what's going to
:19:49. > :19:54.happen in the next five minutes, never mind the next 24 hours.
:19:55. > :20:02.Congratulations to Theresa May. I am absolutely certain she will make a
:20:03. > :20:11.great Prime Minister. Jeremy Corbyn would dream of 84 members! 84 is a
:20:12. > :20:17.substantial number and the party will now unite behind Theresa May
:20:18. > :20:20.and absolutely support her in withdrawing the United Kingdom from
:20:21. > :20:23.the European Union as quickly as possible. I know Graham Brady is
:20:24. > :20:27.going to make a speech at the moment. I'm secretary of the 1922
:20:28. > :20:30.and I did chat to the vice-chairman just before coming on the air
:20:31. > :20:36.because this is uncharted water. Did you get a sense of what is going to
:20:37. > :20:39.say? No, inasmuch as he has taught already to the permanent secretary.
:20:40. > :20:43.You only have to wait ten more minutes to find out what the
:20:44. > :20:48.procedure is going to be but like John, I want this now to happen as
:20:49. > :20:52.quickly as possible and the 1922 didn't want it to drag out to the
:20:53. > :20:56.9th of September. We wanted it to be a far tighter win and one of the
:20:57. > :21:00.reasons Andrea has used is that we can now get on with the process of
:21:01. > :21:05.government and I think that now needs to happen as quickly as
:21:06. > :21:08.possible. Let's look at this in contrast to the Labour Party in
:21:09. > :21:11.terms of leadership contests. They sorted it out, the Conservative
:21:12. > :21:15.Party. There is now going to be, and we know who it is, a new leader and
:21:16. > :21:19.Prime Minister. Why can't the Labour Party sought itself out? We are
:21:20. > :21:22.going to have a contest now because there has been a challenge. It was
:21:23. > :21:28.going to be launched at the double bass programme. Who knows? Things
:21:29. > :21:32.change every hour. There will be a challenge in the Labour Party. Can I
:21:33. > :21:38.say something about the politics of this, in the spectre of Andrea, who
:21:39. > :21:41.I know very well? I like her personally very much. I disagree
:21:42. > :21:44.with her fundamentally on a lot of things and from my own experience, I
:21:45. > :21:49.think one of the things this illustrates is that if you are going
:21:50. > :21:52.to launch - and I speak from personal experience 2- a leadership
:21:53. > :21:57.campaign, it helps if you've spent many months preparing at Aberdeen
:21:58. > :22:00.basin of the structure. Did you have sympathy if it was a case of too
:22:01. > :22:05.much but because it was the sort of thing you experienced? I wasn't
:22:06. > :22:09.preparing to run a leadership contest, I was preparing to run a
:22:10. > :22:12.business, innovation and skills department Inan Ed Miliband
:22:13. > :22:22.government and Theresa May has been planning this for some time. She
:22:23. > :22:25.wasn't very present on the field of the EU referendum campaign. I think
:22:26. > :22:29.part of the reason she didn't do so was a tactical reason in order to
:22:30. > :22:33.win a potential leadership contest but two things I would say. A
:22:34. > :22:37.Theresa May government is going to be dominated by Brexiteers. It will
:22:38. > :22:40.be a Vote Leave government in essence. And I still think that
:22:41. > :22:44.Theresa may has a lot to prove in showing that she can unify the
:22:45. > :22:48.country and I just think of the disgraceful role she played in the
:22:49. > :22:52.Islam phobia campaign that was waged against Sadiq Khan in the London
:22:53. > :22:58.mayoral election. I think she has a lot to prove on that front. Will be
:22:59. > :23:01.discussing that and a lot more detail now we know she is going to
:23:02. > :23:06.be bid and Prime Minister. Just briefly to you, will you all unite
:23:07. > :23:10.behind Theresa May? Will there be any problem, do you think, with Tory
:23:11. > :23:17.MPs who are disappointed about Andrea Leadsom dropping out? I hope
:23:18. > :23:20.not that I thought we had two very good winning candidates. We were
:23:21. > :23:25.going to have a democratic argument but we are now in the position we
:23:26. > :23:29.are in. We all had goodwill but there will be rebellions from time
:23:30. > :23:32.to time, as there are under all leaders. Some of them will be from
:23:33. > :23:36.her own supporters, I suspect, because they won't all be satisfied.
:23:37. > :23:41.She's now got to balance the ticket and I do sincerely recommend to her
:23:42. > :23:44.those two fundamental issues from our campaign, economic optimism. We
:23:45. > :23:47.need to lift spirits and tell people there is not going to be a
:23:48. > :23:51.recession, we can get through this fine things are going to be much
:23:52. > :23:55.better. We can be more prosperous, and we need to have a smooth exit
:23:56. > :23:58.which I think means doing it at pace. Doing it right now? OK, thank
:23:59. > :24:01.you. So Angela Eagle is launching her
:24:02. > :24:04.challenge for the Labour leadership She says she wants to "heal
:24:05. > :24:08.the party" to give them a chance of winning
:24:09. > :24:10.the next general election. Also sharing his views on the Labour
:24:11. > :24:13.leadership this morning has been Unite General Secretary Len
:24:14. > :24:16.McCluskey - and he had some strong words for those who want to get rid
:24:17. > :24:19.of Jeremy Corbyn, calling it This was an attempted
:24:20. > :24:26.political lynching. Designed to bully and bludgeon
:24:27. > :24:30.Jeremy Corbyn, this deeply decent and kind man,
:24:31. > :24:32.out of the job This is not just about
:24:33. > :24:39.Jeremy Corbyn and his position, the coup has
:24:40. > :24:41.snowballed into a wrecking Labour Party itself, destroying it
:24:42. > :24:47.at least temporarily, as a The big question in all
:24:48. > :24:56.of is whether current leader Jeremy will automatically be on the ballot
:24:57. > :25:00.paper in a new leadership contest - with both sides arguing
:25:01. > :25:06.a different case. Angela Eagle says she expects
:25:07. > :25:09.Jeremy Corbyn to have to be nominated by 20% of Labour MPs
:25:10. > :25:12.and MEPs in the same way that The precedent for this
:25:13. > :25:19.is Tony Benn's challenge to Neil Kinnock's leadership
:25:20. > :25:21.in 1988, when Kinnock had to gather endorsements from members
:25:22. > :25:23.of the Parliamentary Labour Party But Mr Corbyn and his supporters say
:25:24. > :25:32.things have changed since then and that as the incumbent
:25:33. > :25:34.he will automatically be They say the party rules state
:25:35. > :25:45.that it is only "challengers" to the leadership who are required
:25:46. > :25:47.to collect nominations and that they have legal advice
:25:48. > :25:49.to back up this view. Now that Angela Eagle has triggered
:25:50. > :25:52.the process it is possible other challengers will emerge -
:25:53. > :25:54.former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith is yet
:25:55. > :26:00.to decide whether to run himself. It is the party's National Executive
:26:01. > :26:03.Committee who must make the final decision regarding the nominations
:26:04. > :26:05.process and the timetable for the election -
:26:06. > :26:09.they are expected to meet tomorrow. Other questions surround the current
:26:10. > :26:13.membership of the Labour Party - over 100,000 people have joined
:26:14. > :26:21.the party since the EU referendum - many stating their support
:26:22. > :26:24.for Jeremy Corbyn. Once a leadership contest starts
:26:25. > :26:29.the party will allow people to become "registered supporters" -
:26:30. > :26:32.a system introduced for the contest last year which allows people
:26:33. > :26:35.to vote in the leadership ballot by Let's speak to the Samuel Townend
:26:36. > :26:45.from the Society of Labour Lawyers, who has given legal advice
:26:46. > :26:53.to the party in the past. Welcome to the programme. What is
:26:54. > :26:57.your legal opinion on the rules? Does Jeremy Corbyn need to get the
:26:58. > :27:01.requisite nominations or not, to be on the ballot paper? The truth is,
:27:02. > :27:08.Jo, that the rules are unclear on that point. Oh. Although there is
:27:09. > :27:11.one part of the rules which says that potential challenges require
:27:12. > :27:13.20% of the European and Parliamentary Labour Party to
:27:14. > :27:18.nominate, there are other parts of the rules which talk about how
:27:19. > :27:25.nominees have to present their nominations to the general secretary
:27:26. > :27:29.in order to stand. So there is no doubt differing legal views given on
:27:30. > :27:33.that point. So in the end it will be a political decision, if you like?
:27:34. > :27:37.It will come down to the ruling executive who will decide, I presume
:27:38. > :27:41.from what you've said. Have you seen the legal advice that has been given
:27:42. > :27:44.to Iain MacCormick all, who is the general secretary of the Labour
:27:45. > :27:50.Party, which states that Corbyn does need those nominations? No, I
:27:51. > :27:53.haven't. The only legal advice available was an Jeremy Corbyn's
:27:54. > :27:58.Twitter feed last night and I think it's been on the Huffington Post a
:27:59. > :28:04.week or so ago, which was very clear and unambiguously stating that he
:28:05. > :28:09.does not require the nominations. However, it also goes from a legal
:28:10. > :28:13.point of view too far, in my view, in that it says it is an arguable
:28:14. > :28:16.that it requires the nominations. But the rules themselves do not
:28:17. > :28:20.address the position where you have an incumbent leader and whether or
:28:21. > :28:26.not he or she requires the nominations. So it can't be an
:28:27. > :28:30.arguable. There is an argument to be had and that, as you say, will be,
:28:31. > :28:35.at least initially, determined by the NEC, which I understand is
:28:36. > :28:39.meeting tomorrow. So just to be clear, the body of opinion in the
:28:40. > :28:44.Labour Party that says he has to be on the ballot paper, that is not
:28:45. > :28:48.necessarily the case? It could be argued that he could be kept off,
:28:49. > :28:53.which, as you say, leaves it ambiguous in terms of any sort of
:28:54. > :28:56.legal challenge. Because the key passage from the rule book reads,
:28:57. > :28:59."Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by
:29:00. > :29:04.potential challenges each year prior to the annual session of party
:29:05. > :29:10.conference". In this case any nomination must be aborted by 20% of
:29:11. > :29:15.the combined members of the PLP and the EPL pee, which is the European
:29:16. > :29:19.Parliament rebate the party. "Any nomination," in your reading of it,
:29:20. > :29:23.does that mean anyone, or is that assuming that the incumbent isn't
:29:24. > :29:28.included? The legal advice goes both ways on that, I suspect. So
:29:29. > :29:33.ultimately, as you say, it will be a political decision for the NEC
:29:34. > :29:38.tomorrow, albeit that they will take legal advice. I understand that
:29:39. > :29:43.legal advice has been given to the party but as I say, I don't know
:29:44. > :29:49.what it says. And then ultimately, if the worst comes to the worst, the
:29:50. > :29:52.disgruntled side, which ever it might be, may decide to pursue
:29:53. > :29:57.matters further in the courts. Thank you very much.
:29:58. > :30:05.A few minutes ago Angela Eagle launched her leadership bid. Let's
:30:06. > :30:11.have a listen. These are dark times for the Labour Party and dangerous
:30:12. > :30:15.times for our country. A referendum designed to settle an argument in
:30:16. > :30:25.the Conservative Party has resulted in the country being torn apart. Our
:30:26. > :30:32.economy damaged. Our society hurt. And at this time with a failed Prime
:30:33. > :30:38.Minister and a tiny number of Conservative Party members choosing
:30:39. > :30:45.the next one, our country needs a strong Labour Party. We alone can
:30:46. > :30:51.hold this right-wing Tory government to account and then replace it by
:30:52. > :31:03.winning a general election. APPLAUSE .
:31:04. > :31:12.Jeremy Corbyn is unable to provide the leadership that this huge task
:31:13. > :31:17.needs. I believe that I can. Angela Eagle launching her leadership bid.
:31:18. > :31:22.Saying that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the leadership skills to
:31:23. > :31:28.continue in the role. Christine Shawcross, who sits on the national
:31:29. > :31:33.ruling executive, known as the NEC, joins us now. You're on the NEC,
:31:34. > :31:36.we've just heard from Samuel talent the lawyer who said it would be up
:31:37. > :31:42.to the NEC to interpret the leadership rules. In your mind, Ayew
:31:43. > :31:47.clear that Jeremy Corbyn is on the ballot paper? I think it is clear
:31:48. > :31:52.from those rules, when the rules were tidied up in the late 1990s,
:31:53. > :31:55.the paper that went to conference had the explanation column and this
:31:56. > :32:01.requires potential challengers to get nominations. This is papers that
:32:02. > :32:09.went to conference and it refers only to potential challengers. But
:32:10. > :32:13.he said it is arguable, and in this case it says any nominations must be
:32:14. > :32:17.supported by 20% of all the members in parliament and in Europe. Do you
:32:18. > :32:23.accept that? But it's clearly refers to the sentence before which talks
:32:24. > :32:28.about challengers leading nominations and that any nomination
:32:29. > :32:33.must get 20%. So the rules are perfectly clear. Does everyone agree
:32:34. > :32:39.with you on the NEC, I understand it is evenly split? I have not seen
:32:40. > :32:43.this, we have not had legal advice or any recommendations out yet we
:32:44. > :32:49.will have to see what is put to the meeting. When you see both sets of
:32:50. > :32:55.legal advice as members of the NEC at the meeting tomorrow? I should
:32:56. > :33:00.imagine so. There will be a report. We have the advice that Jeremy
:33:01. > :33:05.Corbyn is automatically on the paper in any case. That is the advice that
:33:06. > :33:10.has been presented to Ian Nichol. If you cannot agree, you know the
:33:11. > :33:15.members of the NEC, you know how they will split in terms of voting,
:33:16. > :33:19.what will happen if you cannot agree? I think there are enough
:33:20. > :33:22.people on the NEC, whether they supported Jeremy Arnott, to
:33:23. > :33:26.understand that the party expect the Democratic contest and anything that
:33:27. > :33:30.looks like it is keeping someone off a ballot paper deliberately, this
:33:31. > :33:35.will not go down well with the membership and people on the NEC
:33:36. > :33:40.will understand that. What do you say to that, Chuka Umuna, should he
:33:41. > :33:46.be on the ballot paper? I'm a lawyer, I have read the rules and it
:33:47. > :33:49.is not clear what the rules say. And to pretend otherwise is absurd.
:33:50. > :33:55.Essentially the NEC will make a political decision on this. You have
:33:56. > :33:58.the Parliamentary party of MPs, we are Parliamentary party, we believe
:33:59. > :34:01.in implementing socialism through Parliament and that is why it
:34:02. > :34:06.matters whether or not your reader can command the confidence of its
:34:07. > :34:09.MPs. MPs by the way you have a mandate from 9.3 million Labour
:34:10. > :34:13.voters. You have a problem in the sense that we've got to reconcile
:34:14. > :34:18.that mandate that they have from 9.3 million Labour voters with the
:34:19. > :34:20.mandate he has fun children 31,000 members and that is why this process
:34:21. > :34:26.should hopefully enable to reconcile those. I take issue with Len
:34:27. > :34:31.McCluskey, by the way. I will come to that in a second. First the
:34:32. > :34:37.response from Christine Shawcross about the legitimacy of MPs being a
:34:38. > :34:41.parliamentary deadlock city and without their support Jeremy Corbyn
:34:42. > :34:45.is not illegitimate leader. -- democracy. The rank-and-file
:34:46. > :34:50.membership one to work with the Parliamentary Labour Party. We
:34:51. > :34:54.support MPs and we feel many of them older position to us doing a lot of
:34:55. > :34:58.that leafleting and knocking on doors. If we are to respect the
:34:59. > :35:01.Parliamentary Labour Party it needs to be a two-way process. They need
:35:02. > :35:06.to respect the democratic decision that was made barely ten months ago.
:35:07. > :35:10.What I would say in respect of Christina, I have known her for some
:35:11. > :35:13.time and know that she is a campaigner and goes out on the
:35:14. > :35:17.doorsteps and has done the work for the Labour Party. Luckily I see a
:35:18. > :35:20.lot of new people who have come into the party who often have been
:35:21. > :35:27.members of other parties especially the Green Party, socialist workers
:35:28. > :35:31.party, who come in and tell existing members in my constituency party who
:35:32. > :35:34.do all the work, off you go. We're not doing that and that is why there
:35:35. > :35:39.is an area of agreement I have with Diane Abbott is money when she spoke
:35:40. > :35:44.of a split in the Labour Party. There is not going to be a split. I
:35:45. > :35:49.do not see how Ondray first past the post electoral system which we must
:35:50. > :35:54.abolish and in my view replace with abortion or representation, how the
:35:55. > :35:57.new party could come into being. And further to be a split it would
:35:58. > :36:03.require people like me to walk away. I have been a member and have worked
:36:04. > :36:06.hard to get Labour government elected, working hard on civil
:36:07. > :36:10.partnerships and the rest, in the face of people campaigning to stop
:36:11. > :36:15.us doing that, for 20 years. I'm not walking away from my party at this
:36:16. > :36:20.junction and for people who have been members just for two minutes,
:36:21. > :36:23.saying the Labour Party can no longer be a broad church. It is
:36:24. > :36:29.straightforward. And statements from people like Len McCluskey, I presume
:36:30. > :36:33.he's speaking about Chuka Umuna, speaking of bullying the Labour
:36:34. > :36:38.Party and being a lynch mob, is that the sort of language you think will
:36:39. > :36:42.unite the party? It is a disgrace, that language. I am a member of the
:36:43. > :36:49.Labour Party and have been twice as long as Chuka Umuna. I have seen the
:36:50. > :36:52.branches being integrated with now twice as many people active in my
:36:53. > :36:56.branch of the Labour Party, coming to the meetings and doing all the
:36:57. > :37:02.work, going out on doorsteps. There has been talk about this but I think
:37:03. > :37:08.his people returning, not entering. People left over the Iraq War. The
:37:09. > :37:12.kind of bullying and intimidation that we have not seen for a long
:37:13. > :37:17.time in the Labour Party stop piracy issue that people have on the
:37:18. > :37:23.current leadership is competent. We had a vote last Monday and were
:37:24. > :37:27.instructed to abstain on an increase in employment tribunal fees. I ask
:37:28. > :37:34.what the Labour Party is doing abstaining on a vote like this. And
:37:35. > :37:38.then too late in the day, the whip was slightly changed and we did
:37:39. > :37:41.nothing on that issue. If I was Business Secretary, if we had won
:37:42. > :37:45.the election last year, we would have abolished the very unfair and
:37:46. > :37:53.unjust employment tribunal fees scheme. That harms members of the
:37:54. > :37:57.Unite union. And nothing was done about it on Monday so I'm not
:37:58. > :38:02.surprised why you have half of the Unite union members saying they want
:38:03. > :38:04.to see change. In the end it is not the members who suffer about the
:38:05. > :38:08.communities that the Labour Party was set up to serve, hard-working
:38:09. > :38:11.people who need a Labour government implement promoting their values.
:38:12. > :38:16.There is a charge of incompetence, or lacking leadership skills, to win
:38:17. > :38:21.the next election. You believe that Jeremy Corbyn can win the next
:38:22. > :38:25.general election? Absolutely. They have been a lot of reverses against
:38:26. > :38:29.the Tories was Jamie has been leader, we have won by-elections
:38:30. > :38:32.with increased majorities. The man is brave and principled, honest and
:38:33. > :38:36.inspiring, he inspired all these members to join the Labour Party,
:38:37. > :38:43.for more than other political party put together. Why then cannot
:38:44. > :38:48.convince MPs like Chuka Umuna, if it is so clear in your mind and so many
:38:49. > :38:52.new members, why is 80% of the Parliamentary party accusing him of
:38:53. > :38:58.being a poor leader? At the last two general elections we lost with
:38:59. > :39:04.policies very much on the austerity light, Tory light theme. That is
:39:05. > :39:07.ridiculous. What was that about heckling and bullying! That is why
:39:08. > :39:12.the Labour Party membership were keen to have a different kind of
:39:13. > :39:16.politician leading us. John McDonnell has just adopted exactly
:39:17. > :39:20.the same economic position in respect of our fiscal policy as Ed
:39:21. > :39:28.Balls and to suggest that somehow we're standing on an austerity like
:39:29. > :39:30.Digg it is ridiculous. We would have introduced a blacklisting enquiry,
:39:31. > :39:33.which the Conservatives refuse to do, would have introduced more
:39:34. > :39:40.stringent rules on zero hours contrast. -- contract. I would
:39:41. > :39:48.project this version that we are warmed up version of the Tory party.
:39:49. > :39:53.How dare anyone suggest that. We're saying we are going to make cuts as
:39:54. > :39:56.well, not as bad as the Tory party but making cuts. No wonder that
:39:57. > :40:02.working-class people are not inspired. But of course John
:40:03. > :40:04.McDonnell has said he would have hands-on economic competence, that
:40:05. > :40:09.he would instruct some cuts to be made. Was he wrong? I think there is
:40:10. > :40:12.a big difference, every difference in the world between the kind of
:40:13. > :40:16.policies on which we fought the last two general elections, and the kind
:40:17. > :40:22.of policies that the later leadership are now espousing. --
:40:23. > :40:25.Labour leadership. You are fundamentally disagreeing, you say
:40:26. > :40:29.you will not walk away from the party but would not be better to
:40:30. > :40:32.allow Jeremy Corbyn to be on the ballot paper, define that leadership
:40:33. > :40:36.contest and if you believe so strongly that members will support
:40:37. > :40:41.your view, then win the leadership contest. Do you back Angela Eagle
:40:42. > :40:44.question mark I'm pleased Angela has challenged and think it was right
:40:45. > :40:47.for people in the party to say if the Parliamentary Labour Party has
:40:48. > :40:51.no confidence, where is the challenger. I welcome the challenge
:40:52. > :40:55.from Angela Eagle and think we should have a robust debate. In the
:40:56. > :40:59.end I do not know, I think this will be a political decision. What do you
:41:00. > :41:03.think that he should be on the ballot paper? I think we should
:41:04. > :41:07.follow the rules we have, but you need to get nominations. He accepted
:41:08. > :41:10.that. And let's not forget, when you'll connect was challenged for
:41:11. > :41:16.the leadership back in the day, Jeremy Corbyn was one of the leading
:41:17. > :41:21.people to challenge him. And they seem to demand that you'll connect
:41:22. > :41:23.get nominations then so it seems slightly contradictory now to say
:41:24. > :41:30.that because Germany is in the leader 's office, he should not also
:41:31. > :41:34.had to stand. Well you can chose to get those nominations, it is not
:41:35. > :41:38.clear whether he had to. When you have got little parties, we are not
:41:39. > :41:44.protest groups, I believe, I do not agree, I think the leader of
:41:45. > :41:48.momentum yesterday said winning elections. Not matter but I think
:41:49. > :41:53.winning elections and implemented Labour values are mutually dependent
:41:54. > :41:57.things. So having a leader who can implement an agenda through the
:41:58. > :42:00.Parliamentary party is so important. Andrea Leadsom could see where the
:42:01. > :42:03.Tories were going to head and that is part of the reason that she
:42:04. > :42:07.pulled out. So you still want Jeremy Corbyn, it seems he will not do that
:42:08. > :42:11.at the moment, he has made it clear that he is going to stand with a
:42:12. > :42:15.powerful union behind him, but in terms of going ahead you think that
:42:16. > :42:19.Angela Eagle would make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn?
:42:20. > :42:24.Yes, and I believe people watching this programme not only want a
:42:25. > :42:28.Labour Party which is electable but once a credible opposition, join our
:42:29. > :42:32.party to make it happen because at the moment many people do not think
:42:33. > :42:36.they have a choice of the next general election. Angela Eagle will
:42:37. > :42:43.give them that. If it comes to it and in the end Jeremy Corbyn is not
:42:44. > :42:46.automatically on the ballot paper, will you and others at that stage
:42:47. > :42:53.leaves the Labour Party, and decide it has been a stitch up and break
:42:54. > :42:56.away? We have been through quite a few stitch ups over the past few
:42:57. > :43:01.years and have seen quite a few tweaks to the Labour Party rules
:43:02. > :43:04.since you'll connect's time. Angela Eagle put out a memo to all members
:43:05. > :43:09.saying she respected their views, she would work with whoever they
:43:10. > :43:13.voted for and so on. I voted for her as deputy leader on that basis. And
:43:14. > :43:17.less than a year later she has gone back on that. I think we need a
:43:18. > :43:20.leader that we can trust. And if he's not automatically on the ballot
:43:21. > :43:28.paper and does not get the requisite emanations, what would you do Chris
:43:29. > :43:32.Rock there will be a big campaign, it is impossible to say now what
:43:33. > :43:35.might happen, but certainly I have always encouraged people to stay in
:43:36. > :43:38.the Labour Party and fight for what we believe in. Thank you very much.
:43:39. > :43:40.Back to the news that Andrea Leadsom has pulled out
:43:41. > :43:51.Leaving the field clear for Theresa May to become Prime Minister.
:43:52. > :43:54.Graham Brady, the Chairman of the 1922 Committee which oversees
:43:55. > :43:55.the conduct of Conservative leadership elections,
:43:56. > :43:57.has made this statement in the past few minutes.
:43:58. > :44:01.Following the decision of Mrs Andrea Leadsom to withdraw
:44:02. > :44:02.from the Conservative leadership contest, the
:44:03. > :44:08.right honourable Mrs Theresa May is the only remaining candidate.
:44:09. > :44:11.The process is now that I, as chairman
:44:12. > :44:14.of the 1922 committee, and the board of the Conservative Party, must
:44:15. > :44:17.formally confirm that Mrs May is the new leader
:44:18. > :44:23.I will make a further statement as soon as I am in a
:44:24. > :44:36.I've had a very useful conversation with Rob
:44:37. > :44:38.Semple, and we will be seeking to get
:44:39. > :44:43.answers from the party board during the course of this afternoon.
:44:44. > :44:46.Will Theresa May be Prime Minister by the end of the day?
:44:47. > :44:48.I think we need to respect the process.
:44:49. > :44:51.There are constitutional things which need to be followed as
:44:52. > :44:59.But clearly we are going to be in a position to answer
:45:00. > :45:01.those questions much sooner than we had previously anticipated.
:45:02. > :45:04.Can you give us an idea of how long we might be waiting?
:45:05. > :45:17.Playing a straight bat, Graham Berry Dee outside the Houses of
:45:18. > :45:21.Parliament, stating the obvious, that Theresa May will be premised,
:45:22. > :45:24.it is just a matter of time and working through the due process but
:45:25. > :45:29.as he said, it won't be nine weeks away, it will be much sooner. And of
:45:30. > :45:31.course as soon we know, we will tell you.
:45:32. > :45:35.Now - there were strong criticisms of Tony Blair and his decision
:45:36. > :45:38.to take Britain to war in Iraq in last week's Chilcot Report,
:45:39. > :45:41.but Sir John did not rule on the legality of the war
:45:42. > :45:43.or the former Prime Minister's guilt.
:45:44. > :45:46.But now a cross-party group of MPs is attempting to have Mr Blair held
:45:47. > :45:48.in contempt of Parliament and yesterday on the Andrew Marr
:45:49. > :45:51.Show, Jeremy Corbyn suggested he would be supporting the move.
:45:52. > :45:54.I urge colleagues to read the Butler Report and read
:45:55. > :45:58.the Chilcot Report about the way in which Parliament was denied
:45:59. > :46:01.the information it should have had, the way in which there was lack
:46:02. > :46:02.of preparations for the post-invasion situation
:46:03. > :46:05.in Iraq and the way there were the assertions of weapons
:46:06. > :46:09.Parliament must hold to account, including Tony Blair, those who took
:46:10. > :46:13.That is surely what a Parliamentary democracy is about.
:46:14. > :46:18.Let me try and finish with a yes or no.
:46:19. > :46:20.So vote for the contempt motion, yes or no?
:46:21. > :46:23.Well, I haven't seen it yet but I think I probably would.
:46:24. > :46:26.And we're joined now from Aberdeen by one of those campaigning
:46:27. > :46:28.for Tony Blair to face Contempt of Parliament charges,
:46:29. > :46:38.Alex Salmond, just explain to our viewers, what does content of
:46:39. > :46:45.Parliament actually mean in practice? A contempt motion, if it's
:46:46. > :46:49.carried, then would have a range of potential penalties. It would mean
:46:50. > :46:52.that someone could be dragged to the Baro the House of Commons, it means
:46:53. > :46:56.they could be stripped of their Privy Council ship, it would mean
:46:57. > :46:59.they could be barred from ever holding public office again. The
:47:00. > :47:02.exact range of penalties would be determined by a Commons committee
:47:03. > :47:07.but first you would have to have the verdict before you got the sentence.
:47:08. > :47:11.Right, and in terms of the verdict this would be a motion that would
:47:12. > :47:15.say that Tony Blair had deceived Parliament, is that right? This
:47:16. > :47:18.would be a motion that says exactly that he held Parliament...
:47:19. > :47:22.Parliament holds him in contempt because of his behaviour and it
:47:23. > :47:26.would illustrate the range of evidence for that, which is amply
:47:27. > :47:32.demonstrated in Chilcot. The most powerful aspect in my mind is that
:47:33. > :47:37.over a period of almost 18 months, if you juxtapose the private members
:47:38. > :47:41.that work given to George W Bush, the American president, with the
:47:42. > :47:43.public statements given to Parliament on the people, it is
:47:44. > :47:47.quite clear that Parliament was misled on a series of issues over a
:47:48. > :47:54.series of months. This wasn't a single mistake or two, this was a
:47:55. > :47:57.deliberate campaign of deception, as Jeremy Corbyn rightly said, and dog
:47:58. > :48:00.any Parliament worth its salt must have the courage to rise to the
:48:01. > :48:05.question of Parliamentary accountability. But Sir John Chilcot
:48:06. > :48:09.also said in a report that the legal basis for the walk was reached in a
:48:10. > :48:13.way that was far from satisfactory. He didn't explicitly say it was
:48:14. > :48:17.illegal. He also said clearly that Tony Blair didn't lie, that there
:48:18. > :48:23.wasn't a deliberate intention to take the country to war on a false
:48:24. > :48:29.premise, even though we know now that weapons of mass destruction
:48:30. > :48:32.didn't exist in Iraq. On the first of these, that wasn't within
:48:33. > :48:38.Chilcot's terms of reference to rule the war illegal, as you well know,
:48:39. > :48:41.and as you probably also know, the government is denying a Freedom of
:48:42. > :48:45.Information request at the present moment which would set out what the
:48:46. > :48:50.range of background papers was as to why that was excluded from Chilcot's
:48:51. > :48:53.terms of reference. You greater Chilcot as the background for your
:48:54. > :49:00.motion and he didn't talk about the legality or illegality of the war.
:49:01. > :49:05.He said the legal basis was unsatisfactory but can I just repeat
:49:06. > :49:08.the point, what you require for a contempt motion is to show that over
:49:09. > :49:12.a period of time, the Prime Minister was saying one thing in private to
:49:13. > :49:16.the resident of the United States of America, involving, for example,
:49:17. > :49:21.speculation on Regine changed toward the end of 2001 doc by the summer of
:49:22. > :49:26.2002, he was committing himself unconditionally to be with the
:49:27. > :49:34.President of America come what may and by the spring of 2003,
:49:35. > :49:36.princesses were going on in the United Nations which Chilcot
:49:37. > :49:41.described as undermining the authority of the United Nations.
:49:42. > :49:44.These juxtapose with what he was saying to Parliament and to people.
:49:45. > :49:49.What he was saying to Parliament was something else entirely. He was
:49:50. > :49:52.saying to Parliament that this war was not about regime change, it was
:49:53. > :49:57.about weapons of mass destruction. He gave knowing the mission that he
:49:58. > :50:02.committed himself to war, the contrary he said he was striving for
:50:03. > :50:05.peace. On the United Nations he told parliament that he would only go
:50:06. > :50:09.against the will of the night of nations if there was an unreasonable
:50:10. > :50:13.veto from a single country. All of these areas, over a period of time,
:50:14. > :50:17.he was misleading parliament by saying one thing in private to the
:50:18. > :50:22.American president and another thing totally in public to Parliament and
:50:23. > :50:26.the people. That is contempt. Let's about a Chuka Umunna. Is there
:50:27. > :50:30.enough evidence, as Alex and has set out, to show that Tony Blair misled
:50:31. > :50:37.Parliament on number of occasions? I think Chilcot is inconclusive on
:50:38. > :50:40.that and I think Alex Salmond is in no better position than Chilcot to
:50:41. > :50:45.pass judgment on the legality or not. He is not just fighting the
:50:46. > :50:50.legality. Alex Salmond is citing a whole range of issues. Most of the
:50:51. > :50:54.people who cite that cite the summit between the president of the USA and
:50:55. > :50:58.Tony Blair in Crawford, Texas. We will be with you whatever, he said
:50:59. > :51:01.that memo. He was accused of committing to taking military action
:51:02. > :51:05.whatever and that was denied there was apparently no evidence for it,
:51:06. > :51:08.according the Chilcot Report. I wasn't in Parliament at the time. I
:51:09. > :51:12.fundamentally disagreed with the decision to go to war because I
:51:13. > :51:15.didn't feel it was a last resort I felt the weapons inspectors should
:51:16. > :51:18.be given more time to do their work. At the time, I wasn't a public
:51:19. > :51:22.figure, I wasn't on the record as saying this, but that was my
:51:23. > :51:25.position. But I think the most important thing, given all the death
:51:26. > :51:28.and bloodshed, is that we learn lessons from the mistakes that were
:51:29. > :51:32.made and they are never repeated again and I think that would be far
:51:33. > :51:37.more useful for us. If this motion is passed off contempt, I'm not too
:51:38. > :51:40.sure what it really achieves. That's the issue. Is this posturing or are
:51:41. > :51:44.we actually trying to make sure that we don't have bloodshed in the
:51:45. > :51:51.future but also that where we believe we can make a difference and
:51:52. > :51:54.reduce blood to the world by acting to terribly, that people feel they
:51:55. > :52:00.can take that decision. Where does this get us? Where does it get us,
:52:01. > :52:04.Alex Salmond? We've had seven years way to the Chilcot Report. Was
:52:05. > :52:07.thorough, it was fairly conclusive in terms of the blame at it laid the
:52:08. > :52:15.doors of many, many people including Tony Blair. Is that not now the end
:52:16. > :52:19.of it? Let me help Chuka Umunna with his evidence. If he reads even the
:52:20. > :52:25.summary on page 34, a memo from Jack Straw to Tony Blair, which reads,
:52:26. > :52:31."When Bush graciously accepted your offer to be with him all the way,"
:52:32. > :52:38.and if he bothers to read the full report, as I have done, he will find
:52:39. > :52:42.ample evidence. To answer the question about why we should do
:52:43. > :52:49.this, there is a question beyond the processes of government to one of
:52:50. > :52:53.Parliamentary accountability because, I was in Parliament and on
:52:54. > :52:58.the record, against the Iraq war on every possible occasion. I accept as
:52:59. > :53:01.a collective responsibility of Parliament to critically examine
:53:02. > :53:05.what we are being fed by the Executive of the date and one of the
:53:06. > :53:08.ways you can establish that is to show that Parliament believes in
:53:09. > :53:11.that process of accountability now and just as we should accept
:53:12. > :53:14.collective responsible is evil Parliamentary failures, you
:53:15. > :53:19.illustrate that by holding those who misled Parliament to account, so
:53:20. > :53:23.that a sequence of events such as the Iraq disaster never happens
:53:24. > :53:28.again. Thank you. My Jill Evans, a last word on this. The Speaker has
:53:29. > :53:35.to decide that this motion is put to the House. What do you think John
:53:36. > :53:38.Bercow will do? I don't know is the answer. John has been incredibly
:53:39. > :53:43.good at allowing Parliament as much say as events as possible. So I
:53:44. > :53:46.would not be surprised at all if this motion is actually put to
:53:47. > :53:53.Parliament and let them have their say. I've been an MP for 24 years, I
:53:54. > :53:56.don't believe in that period I've had a contempt motion coming before
:53:57. > :53:59.Parliament. I think it was the 1950s the last time somebody was dragged
:54:00. > :54:04.to the bar of the House to apologise but I've got used since June 23 to
:54:05. > :54:11.uncharted waters so we are where we are. Thank you. Let's go back to our
:54:12. > :54:14.main story, Andrea Leadsom's erratic announcement that she is withdrawing
:54:15. > :54:20.from the Conservative leadership race. -- dramatic announcement. In
:54:21. > :54:24.the last few mitts, Theresa May's campaign manager, Chris Grayling,
:54:25. > :54:27.has made this statement. Theresa is currently on her way back to London
:54:28. > :54:31.from Birmingham and she will be making a statement later today but
:54:32. > :54:35.on her behalf, I'd just like to say that she is enormously honoured to
:54:36. > :54:39.have been entrusted with this task by so many of her Parliamentary
:54:40. > :54:44.colleagues. As Andrea's statement made clear this morning, now is the
:54:45. > :54:49.time for us to unite as a party and to get on with the job of doing
:54:50. > :54:54.everything we can to secure a strong and prosperous and successful future
:54:55. > :54:58.of our country. I know, we all know, that Theresa will do everything she
:54:59. > :55:02.can to equip our country for the challenges that lie ahead. Chris
:55:03. > :55:06.Grayling, spokesman for Theresa May, and she is making her way back to
:55:07. > :55:11.London, as you would expect, bearing in mind the fast-moving events.
:55:12. > :55:15.Listening to that archive and the of the Mirror and Lucy Fisher of the
:55:16. > :55:21.Times, who are on College Green. At the beginning of the programme,
:55:22. > :55:25.Nigel Evans said he was gobsmacked by what had happened. How have you
:55:26. > :55:29.responded? Politics is changing at the world in speed. It has been
:55:30. > :55:33.since the Brexit vote. Nothing is certainly more but today we do have
:55:34. > :55:37.a new Prime Minister, it's Theresa May, and because Andrea Leadsom
:55:38. > :55:40.pulled out, in her statement avoiding the motherhood row which we
:55:41. > :55:45.believe she couldn't stand any more and she was in tears and a broken
:55:46. > :55:51.woman over it, and why she's gone, she ignored that, but it remains
:55:52. > :55:54.that 199 Conservative MPs have now picked the Conservative Prime
:55:55. > :55:59.Minister of Britain. We thought it would be 150,000 Tory members, but
:56:00. > :56:02.it is an even smaller group. The only thing we could say with
:56:03. > :56:06.certainty was it was going to be a woman but that was where it stopped.
:56:07. > :56:10.What was your reaction when you heard that Andrea Leadsom was
:56:11. > :56:15.stepping out? Again, very surprised. I don't think any of us necessarily
:56:16. > :56:19.saw this coming today. I think this is going to spark a big conversation
:56:20. > :56:22.now about whether there is going to need to be a general election. Of
:56:23. > :56:26.course in the UK we don't have a presidential system but many people
:56:27. > :56:29.might think, we voted for David Cameron as Prime Minister, it's not
:56:30. > :56:34.OK to have just a tiny handful of MPs select the chief of our country.
:56:35. > :56:38.Do you think there should be a general election, Kevin Maguire? I
:56:39. > :56:44.do. I don't think Gordon Brown's correlation worked very well for
:56:45. > :56:46.him, Labour Britain. It is really a quasi-presidential system now
:56:47. > :56:50.because of the importance of the Prime Minister and the profile of
:56:51. > :56:54.the Prime Minister. It means the government will be led, the country
:56:55. > :56:58.will be led, the nearly four years by somebody who wasn't elected at a
:56:59. > :57:02.general election. Under the fixed in Parliament act, there are only two
:57:03. > :57:05.ways to have a general election. One is a vote of no-confidence in the
:57:06. > :57:09.government or the other is two thirds of MPs voting for an early
:57:10. > :57:12.election. If Theresa May as Prime Minister, after she's had her kitten
:57:13. > :57:15.heels under the Cabinet table for a few months, decides she wants one,
:57:16. > :57:23.she could challenge Labour in its very sorry state to actually go for
:57:24. > :57:26.early general election. It would be very hard for an opposition party,
:57:27. > :57:28.who are supposed to want power, who are supposed to want to govern now,
:57:29. > :57:32.supposed to want an election, to resist that offer. What about the
:57:33. > :57:35.Brexit negotiations? One Andrea Leadsom read out her letter to
:57:36. > :57:39.Graham Brady, she said Theresa May now will have to step up and push
:57:40. > :57:43.ahead with the Brexit negotiations. Will they happen much more quickly,
:57:44. > :57:48.do you think? I don't know about speed but I think we've seen
:57:49. > :57:53.Brexiters coming out on social media, feeling quite annoyed at the
:57:54. > :57:55.speed at which Theresa May has been correlated. I think they were
:57:56. > :58:00.inspecting this nine week campaign, during which time the word hoping to
:58:01. > :58:03.extort from her much further promises and confirmations asked
:58:04. > :58:07.what she plans to do with Brexit so I think there will be concern among
:58:08. > :58:12.Brexit MPs and campaigners. That's going to be critical now, isn't it,
:58:13. > :58:15.Kevin Maguire, on exactly how those negotiations pan out, or there will
:58:16. > :58:19.be bitter disappointment from many Google? Absolutely and Lucy appoints
:58:20. > :58:22.as Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, who is going to be leading the
:58:23. > :58:29.negotiation team. The Brexit group art going to want to buy a strong
:58:30. > :58:32.part. I have a sense of grievance but is astonishing that now all the
:58:33. > :58:37.levers have left the race, it is going to be a remain a. It is almost
:58:38. > :58:43.a mirror image to what we got in the vote for the referendum. It is a
:58:44. > :58:46.topsy-turvy world. Briefly on the Labour contest, Lucy, do you think
:58:47. > :58:50.Jeremy Corbyn will be on that balance paper automatically?
:58:51. > :58:54.Personally, I can't see how this contest goes ahead without him being
:58:55. > :58:56.on it. Tomorrow we have the importance of National Executive
:58:57. > :59:01.Committee meeting which will decide the legality of whether he
:59:02. > :59:04.automatically gets on or need 51 MPs' signatures. I think there will
:59:05. > :59:09.be such a sense of injustice if he's not on the contest. Many people we
:59:10. > :59:12.think don't even support of thing, this is an cricket, Andy Goodge to
:59:13. > :59:16.groundswell of support even from people who don't support him. In the
:59:17. > :59:20.closing seconds of the programme, do you agree with that, Kevin, and if
:59:21. > :59:23.so would he win again? He would win again and he should be allowed to
:59:24. > :59:26.stand for basic democratic reasons but given politics is so crazy at
:59:27. > :59:31.the moment, Labour could well try and keep him off. At the party split
:59:32. > :59:34.at that point? I think it would splinter and fracture but quite how
:59:35. > :59:38.fundamental the split is we don't know. You could have two bits of the
:59:39. > :59:42.party that hate each other trying to live together. You'd better get back
:59:43. > :59:45.into Parliament. Something might have changed in the time you been
:59:46. > :59:48.speaking to be. I don't want to predict what is going to be on the
:59:49. > :59:52.programme tomorrow because there are many hours to go but that's it for
:59:53. > :59:55.today. Thank you to our guests, particularly you two for being our
:59:56. > :00:01.guests of the day. One of the news is starting on BBC One now. Al be
:00:02. > :00:02.back tomorrow. By. -- the one o'clock