:00:00. > :00:07.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics and Westminster,
:00:08. > :00:10.where today David Cameron is completing his last
:00:11. > :00:21.He's been meeting his cabinet for the last time, while Theresa May
:00:22. > :00:24.is preparing to take over as prime minister after a dramatic end
:00:25. > :00:56.to the Conservative Party leadership election.
:00:57. > :01:00.Theresa May says she's honoured and humbled to be
:01:01. > :01:03.chosen to lead the nation, and she's pledged to make a success
:01:04. > :01:08.But who will get the top jobs in her government,
:01:09. > :01:18.David Cameron is packing his bags at Downing Street months earlier
:01:19. > :01:21.We'll be discussing the legacy of his time in office
:01:22. > :01:24.and asking will it be defined by his decision to call
:01:25. > :01:36.With the Conservative leadership election over, Labour is about to
:01:37. > :01:38.get going. I'm here at that party HQ ahead of a crunch meeting that could
:01:39. > :01:42.determine Jeremy Corbyn's fate. Some parties are calling
:01:43. > :01:44.for a general election now, but will Theresa May
:01:45. > :01:46.wait until 2020? We find out if the public is ready
:01:47. > :01:54.to go back to the polls. All that in the next hour,
:01:55. > :01:57.and with us for the whole of the programme today,
:01:58. > :01:59.it's the Church of England priest So where else can we begin other
:02:00. > :02:07.than with the news that Theresa May is to be the next prime minister
:02:08. > :02:11.of the United Kingdom? Her rise to the top job,
:02:12. > :02:14.which is due to formally take place tomorrow, was triggered
:02:15. > :02:18.by David Cameron's failure to win the EU referendum,
:02:19. > :02:21.and she was helped along the way by her Brexit-supporting
:02:22. > :02:25.rivals falling aside. This morning, Theresa May attended
:02:26. > :02:27.David Cameron's last cabinet at Downing Street,
:02:28. > :02:30.and will now be working on her first speech as prime minister
:02:31. > :02:32.and deciding who to appoint One of the biggest questions
:02:33. > :02:45.is who she'll appoint to the second most important job,
:02:46. > :02:48.that of Chancellor of the Exchequer, and how she will put together
:02:49. > :02:50.a cabinet that united those who supported a vote to leave
:02:51. > :03:00.and a vote to remain Much has been made of the fact she
:03:01. > :03:04.is Britain's second woman Prime Minister and I suppose that is still
:03:05. > :03:07.a big deal. It is a huge deal. But the great thing is that women since
:03:08. > :03:11.been taking over all around the world. We might have a female
:03:12. > :03:16.President of the United States and we will have Angela Merkel and in
:03:17. > :03:23.Scotland, and we really are being run by women, and it's great to have
:03:24. > :03:27.that male dominance broken. While she has risen to the top, David
:03:28. > :03:32.Cameron is packing his bags and leaving. It's hard to believe that
:03:33. > :03:35.he was elected with a Tory majority, the first since 1992, just last
:03:36. > :03:42.year. What are your thoughts on that? This morning I thought, how
:03:43. > :03:46.can you do it so quickly? How do you leave so quickly? The poor man, two
:03:47. > :03:54.days ago, was leisurely imagining he had a while to go and now he has to
:03:55. > :04:01.get out. We are going to have to pause and think about what his
:04:02. > :04:07.legacy is. The Brexit thing may or may not dominate it. It will, went
:04:08. > :04:11.it? But there will be other things we can look back on with David
:04:12. > :04:14.Cameron 's time. We can think a bit more broadly about what he has done,
:04:15. > :04:18.the good things he has done and the things he's not done so well. You
:04:19. > :04:23.wouldn't put it simply you are pleased to see him go, you have some
:04:24. > :04:28.sympathy? No, I'm pleased to see him go and I'm pleased to see the end of
:04:29. > :04:34.the bowling than club politics, and the wave of austerity that he
:04:35. > :04:39.represented -- Bullingdon club. He said he wanted to be a one nation
:04:40. > :04:43.Tory, and he that and maybe Theresa May will be that.
:04:44. > :04:45.Tomorrow will be David Cameron's final appearance at Prime
:04:46. > :04:47.Minister's Questions, after which he will visit the Queen
:04:48. > :04:52.Soon after that, Theresa May will make the same journey
:04:53. > :04:57.to Buckingham Palace, before she heads to 10
:04:58. > :04:59.Downing Street to take over as the second female prime minister
:05:00. > :05:08.So what's going to be high on her list of priorities?
:05:09. > :05:12.Theresa May's first task tomorrow evening will be to appoint people
:05:13. > :05:15.to the other Great Offices of State: Chancellor, Foreign Secretary,
:05:16. > :05:19.Other senior ministerial appointments will likely trickle out
:05:20. > :05:25.on Thursday as the Cabinet reshuffle continues.
:05:26. > :05:29.Although some are suggesting she should seek a mandate
:05:30. > :05:32.from the country, she has explicitly said there should be no general
:05:33. > :05:39.Having vowed that 'Brexit means Brexit', her first task will be
:05:40. > :05:41.to step up negotiations with other EU countries,
:05:42. > :05:48.which have in some cases already begun.
:05:49. > :05:52.She's previously said that Article 50, formally announcing the UK's
:05:53. > :05:54.intention to leave the bloc, will not be triggered until next
:05:55. > :06:00.To assist in unravelling the UK-EU relationship,
:06:01. > :06:05.a new department for Brexit will be set up in Whitehall.
:06:06. > :06:08.The new Prime Minister's first big moment on the international stage
:06:09. > :06:15.will come at the G20 summit in September.
:06:16. > :06:18.But leaving the EU is not Theresa May's only focus -
:06:19. > :06:22.there's the vote on Trident renewal next Monday.
:06:23. > :06:26.The upcoming decision on whether or not to expand
:06:27. > :06:29.Heathrow, which she is thought to oppose, and a platform of social
:06:30. > :06:33.and economic reform outlined in her leadership speech this week.
:06:34. > :06:35.Yesterday, Theresa May gave a statement setting
:06:36. > :06:39.out the principles that would guide her as Prime Minister.
:06:40. > :06:48.Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it.
:06:49. > :06:51.Second, we need to unite our country, and third,
:06:52. > :06:54.we need a strong, new, positive vision for
:06:55. > :07:00.A vision of a country that works, not for the privileged few,
:07:01. > :07:03.but that works for every one of us, because we're going to give people
:07:04. > :07:09.And that's how, together, we will build a better Britain.
:07:10. > :07:20.Let's talk now to our assistant political editor Norman Smith,
:07:21. > :07:22.Well, let's talk more about Theresa May's rise to the top
:07:23. > :07:25.with the historian Vernon Bogdanor and the Conservative Damian Green,
:07:26. > :07:29.a friend of Mrs May's since university.
:07:30. > :07:35.First, Vernon, just a sense of the occasion in terms of the history of
:07:36. > :07:40.a new Prime Minister, a female Prime Minister comic at the beginning of a
:07:41. > :07:46.new parliament. -- coming at the beginning. There is no requirement
:07:47. > :07:49.to have the general election with a new Prime Minister but the character
:07:50. > :07:53.of the government is often determined by a Prime Minister and
:07:54. > :07:57.many thought that when Gordon Brown succeeded Tony Blair in 2007 he
:07:58. > :08:02.ought to have had an election. The last new Prime Minister have an
:08:03. > :08:07.election, you have to go back to 1955 when Anthony Eden, who had been
:08:08. > :08:10.Prime Minister for three weeks, he called an election and was rewarded
:08:11. > :08:13.with an increased majority. The situation this time is rather
:08:14. > :08:20.different. The House of Commons was elected last year, and has shown to
:08:21. > :08:24.be quite unrepresentative of the British public. Although there is no
:08:25. > :08:27.constitutional requirement for an election there is a democratic
:08:28. > :08:31.requirement for an election and that's a problem that Theresa May
:08:32. > :08:37.might face given that she was a Remains a porter. We will come back
:08:38. > :08:39.to that in a moment. -- a remain supporter.
:08:40. > :08:41.Let's talk now to our assistant political editor Norman Smith,
:08:42. > :08:44.he's in Downing Street where I understand the removal men
:08:45. > :08:51.And I see you witnessed the arrivals and departures at the final cabinet.
:08:52. > :08:55.There were some cameos in the street. The most interesting one was
:08:56. > :08:59.Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, who could become
:09:00. > :09:05.Chancellor soon, but when he left and he asked how it went, he said so
:09:06. > :09:08.so. What he meant is that it was a poignant moment. Because here you
:09:09. > :09:12.have the Prime Minister in effect saying his farewells when only a
:09:13. > :09:17.year ago he dragged his party from the clutches of a hung parliament
:09:18. > :09:21.into government. So obviously a poignant moment. Nicky Morgan, when
:09:22. > :09:29.she came out said there had been lots of lovely tributes to Mr
:09:30. > :09:32.Cameron. Theresa May, when she came out, she strode in that direction
:09:33. > :09:36.but was going to the wrong ministerial car and then headed in
:09:37. > :09:40.that direction to get in the correct ministerial car so maybe people will
:09:41. > :09:47.be hoping she's a bit more decisive in government. But she had the silly
:09:48. > :09:52.me moment on the steps of Downing Street. That will probably be on the
:09:53. > :09:56.front pages of the papers tomorrow. Old habits die hard. It has been
:09:57. > :10:00.quite quick, the speed of transition. We were also told the
:10:01. > :10:03.removal men had arrived and I'm not sure if we had a shot of it. But
:10:04. > :10:10.it's happening so quickly this handover. It is. The removal van is
:10:11. > :10:15.parked the other side and all of the snappers have their long telephoto
:10:16. > :10:21.lenses to catch a couple of men in overalls carting a sofa about, but
:10:22. > :10:26.it is so brutal and it is happening so fast. So Theresa May now has to
:10:27. > :10:29.slam together her government remarkably quickly. And the
:10:30. > :10:34.difficulty for her is that this is such a fundamental decision for her,
:10:35. > :10:38.the people she has around her, the message she sends out but she has to
:10:39. > :10:43.do it incredibly quickly. The only plus side apart from the fact that
:10:44. > :10:46.she doesn't have to go through a protracted leadership contest is
:10:47. > :10:51.that she at least has some breathing space to work out how she will
:10:52. > :10:55.approach these Brexit negotiations. She has a bit more than two months
:10:56. > :10:59.before the negotiations get under way in the autumn. On the one hand,
:11:00. > :11:03.the fact everything is happening quickly is huge pressure in that she
:11:04. > :11:06.has to appoint people quickly, but on the other hand it does give her
:11:07. > :11:10.back critical breathing space to think about how she's going to
:11:11. > :11:14.address Brexit which, let's be honest, is probable you going to
:11:15. > :11:19.define her Premiership. Although she said the other day about setting her
:11:20. > :11:26.own agenda, you can't help feeling that make or break for her will be
:11:27. > :11:29.Brexit. Norman Smith, thank you. Damian Green, the make or break will
:11:30. > :11:35.be the cabinet. Who should she appoint to the top jobs? She will
:11:36. > :11:40.want to find a balance and clearly she has already said she is setting
:11:41. > :11:47.up a new department to negotiate the Brexit terms and that will be led by
:11:48. > :11:50.someone who voted to leave. She said Brexit will mean Brexit, so that
:11:51. > :11:55.clearly means one of the key appointments. But like any incoming
:11:56. > :12:00.Prime Minister I'm sure she will want to create a balance of
:12:01. > :12:08.personalities, regional backgrounds, all kinds of things. Will it be an
:12:09. > :12:11.onus on her to put a lever in the position of Chancellor, for example?
:12:12. > :12:18.Philip Hammond has been talked about as a possible contender for the
:12:19. > :12:23.role. He was a Remain voter. Will that be beneficial to the party? The
:12:24. > :12:29.party will want a government that takes up the reins quickly and shows
:12:30. > :12:32.a continuing competence. Clearly the whole Brexit negotiation is going to
:12:33. > :12:37.be one of the most important things on the next few years but it's not
:12:38. > :12:40.the only thing. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, what you want is a
:12:41. > :12:45.degree of economic competence in a time where the global economy seems
:12:46. > :12:48.to be slowing down. In terms of the critical importance of who will be
:12:49. > :12:52.in the cabinet, you said, just before we went to Norman Smith, that
:12:53. > :12:57.it will be critically important that she marks her credentials in terms
:12:58. > :13:00.of leaving the EU. What does she have to do? The referendum shows
:13:01. > :13:05.that what happens outside Parliament is becoming more important that --
:13:06. > :13:08.than what happens in Parliament or the Cabinet. She has to reassure the
:13:09. > :13:12.country that the decision taken by the public, which I think is not
:13:13. > :13:16.just a decision to leave the European Union but a decision to
:13:17. > :13:21.control immigration from the European Union, she has to show that
:13:22. > :13:24.that decision is carried out, and more generally that the views of
:13:25. > :13:29.people in the public who seem not to be listened to that their views are
:13:30. > :13:33.taken into account. I think there is a huge gap not between the political
:13:34. > :13:36.parties, but between the political class in general and the public that
:13:37. > :13:40.were shown by the referendum. You are nodding. This is about the
:13:41. > :13:45.disconnect clearly demonstrated during the referendum. How can she
:13:46. > :13:49.do that? It's also about the fact that we are a divided country. We
:13:50. > :13:54.have been revealed as a country with huge and deep divisions. Those who
:13:55. > :13:57.were the beneficiaries of globalisation and those who were
:13:58. > :14:04.left behind, those are clear. There is a huge task for a one nation Tory
:14:05. > :14:10.to do exactly that, to bring everybody together, so people in
:14:11. > :14:17.parts of the country where they feel profoundly unattended to to be
:14:18. > :14:21.listened to and taken notice of. She was seen, certainly by the Liberal
:14:22. > :14:25.Democrats and the coalition, as hard line on immigration but she used a
:14:26. > :14:29.phrase in the contest saying she would have control of free movement.
:14:30. > :14:35.Now you could argue you either have control or you have free movement,
:14:36. > :14:40.you can't have both. I agree with Vernon that one of the messages was
:14:41. > :14:44.that the old system of free movement we had from the rest of the European
:14:45. > :14:49.Union cannot carry on. Clearly there needs to be a big enough change that
:14:50. > :14:54.people will notice the change. But there could be some freedom of
:14:55. > :14:58.movement still? We are getting into semantics. You don't want to close
:14:59. > :15:02.the borders become North Korea. We were one skilled workers coming from
:15:03. > :15:05.Europe as we do the rest of the world, and getting the balance right
:15:06. > :15:10.is clearly the key while preserving as many of the economic advantages
:15:11. > :15:14.of our access to the single market as we can. That will be the nub of
:15:15. > :15:15.the negotiations and where you land on that spectrum will be hugely
:15:16. > :15:22.important. Coming from somewhere like the Home
:15:23. > :15:26.Office, where she has been an awfully long time, the longest Home
:15:27. > :15:29.Secretary, not many people have made the leap from Home Secretary to
:15:30. > :15:32.Prime Minister. I think the last one was Winston Churchill, although he
:15:33. > :15:37.had a number of intermediate posts on the way. But as you imply, tans r
:15:38. > :15:40.an extraordinarily difficult department to run. - it is an
:15:41. > :15:44.extraordinarily difficult department to run. Probably one of the most
:15:45. > :15:48.defendant in Whitehall. She has avoided all the snares. It is a very
:15:49. > :15:51.good achievement. She hasn't been frightened to take on important
:15:52. > :15:55.pressure groups, such as the police. She has dealt very firmly, I believe
:15:56. > :15:59.with the issue of police corruption. Right, what about then, setting out
:16:00. > :16:04.when she's going to invoke Article 50. That's will be what a lot of the
:16:05. > :16:08.pro-Brexit Tory MPs will want to hear and they'll want it hear it,
:16:09. > :16:14.soon? Wasn't Jim Callaghan Home Secretary? You are absolutely right.
:16:15. > :16:20.I plead guilty. Good for you, I wasn't going to.
:16:21. > :16:25.On that issue of Article 50. When does she need to say it I think what
:16:26. > :16:33.she said was sensible, Britain needs to know what its negotiating stance
:16:34. > :16:37.is. There is no point in invoking article 50, with the deadline before
:16:38. > :16:42.you have your own ducks in a row. She suggested in one of the speeches
:16:43. > :16:45.she made when she launched the leadership campaign that she thought
:16:46. > :16:49.the end of this year, beginning of next year, would be the right time,
:16:50. > :16:53.so we have the autumn to decide what are the important things for us to
:16:54. > :16:55.start the negotiations, rather than start the negotiations before you
:16:56. > :17:01.know what your negotiating stance is. Do you think that will 's be
:17:02. > :17:04.enough for people who wanted the UK to leave the UK, that negotiations
:17:05. > :17:08.don't start immediately? It doesn't matter whether it is quick enough or
:17:09. > :17:12.not. I don't think he will with' have another election. There will be
:17:13. > :17:15.those who think that Article 50 will be invoked immediately but a
:17:16. > :17:19.sensible way of doing things is to get your ducks in a reand prepare
:17:20. > :17:24.for what you are going to do. -- ducks in a row. People have to
:17:25. > :17:29.ensure people Brexit means Brexit, that's what she is going to do and
:17:30. > :17:32.she has done that, those of us who are enthusiastic levers will be
:17:33. > :17:37.reassured that's where she is going, but now I think she has a it of
:17:38. > :17:42.about time to do it properly. I think it is OK. It is not just about
:17:43. > :17:46.Brexit. As you said, there are other things she will want to do the and
:17:47. > :17:49.the rest of Government to deal with. We mentioned Trident at the
:17:50. > :17:52.beginning. But some of the things she mentioned. She said the
:17:53. > :17:54.Conservative Party must be at the service of Conservative Party,
:17:55. > :17:58.putting workers on board, capping executive pay, sound like be Ed
:17:59. > :18:03.Miliband's Labour manifesto? Well, a small overlap. It was a big part of
:18:04. > :18:06.what he was saying at the time One of the differences between Theresa
:18:07. > :18:09.May and Ed Miliband, is she gets things done. She's shown that as
:18:10. > :18:13.Home Secretary, when she says she is going to do something, it happens.
:18:14. > :18:16.That was the fear people had about Ed Miliband. I do think yesterday's
:18:17. > :18:19.speech, it feels like about three weeks ago, actually it was only
:18:20. > :18:24.yesterday morning she was making that speech. So much has happened
:18:25. > :18:27.since then. It was a very interesting modernisation of the
:18:28. > :18:30.Conservative One Nation agenda, actually talking about the problems
:18:31. > :18:35.and we have talked about it already, the disconnect a lot of people feel
:18:36. > :18:41.from the prosperity that some are having, actually dealing with one of
:18:42. > :18:44.those things which are some excesses of boardroom pay in some companies.
:18:45. > :18:48.And doing something about that is an important part of a message of
:18:49. > :18:52.pulling the country together again. But what about her economic pitch?
:18:53. > :18:55.That seems to be differing from David Cameron and George Osborne,
:18:56. > :18:58.obviously Dutching the idea of reaching a surplus by 2020, less
:18:59. > :19:04.austerity. Do you agree with that, too? I do. I think it is realistic,
:19:05. > :19:08.regardless of the economic effects on us of the Brexit vote. You didn't
:19:09. > :19:12.believe the manifesto you were elected on? I believed it then. What
:19:13. > :19:19.has happened since then is that the world economy has slowed down and
:19:20. > :19:22.any sensible Chancellor reacts to changing circumstances, as Kenyes
:19:23. > :19:27.said, when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do? The facts
:19:28. > :19:31.are changes in the world economy, so giving yourself some leeway on
:19:32. > :19:35.getting deficit down to zero seemed sensible. George Osborne adopted
:19:36. > :19:40.that as well. Are you wait big your phone for a job offer? I can do the
:19:41. > :19:44.maths. Even on the first ballot there was something like 160-odd
:19:45. > :19:48.people who voted for Theresa and far fewer jobs than that in Government.
:19:49. > :19:52.I'm sure the Palace of Westminster is deeply tense at the moment but a
:19:53. > :19:57.lot of people are always disappointed at this time. But you
:19:58. > :20:02.are hopeful? I'm an etenter optimist but also a reist and I have been
:20:03. > :20:08.around long enough to know that one should go through politics wary. I
:20:09. > :20:12.would put you up. You would. Well you were close to Theresa May.
:20:13. > :20:16.David Cameron appeared to forget he still had a microphone
:20:17. > :20:17.on after delivering a brief statement outside
:20:18. > :20:22.He won't be the first or last politicians to do that.
:20:23. > :20:25.The question for today is what did he do as he walked
:20:26. > :20:28.Was it a) mutter "Caribbean here we come"?
:20:29. > :20:33.Or D) ask Sam to open a bottle of something cold?
:20:34. > :20:35.At the end of the show, Giles will give
:20:36. > :20:41.Until the surprise announcement that Theresa May was to be elected
:20:42. > :20:43.as Conservative leader unopposed, David Cameron had expected
:20:44. > :20:47.to stand down as Prime Minister in early September,
:20:48. > :20:50.finishing his term in office with a final meeting of the G20
:20:51. > :20:54.He had hoped, of course, to see out his third term before handing
:20:55. > :20:57.over to his successor, but the failure of his campaign
:20:58. > :21:00.to remain in the EU made that impossible.
:21:01. > :21:05.Let's have a listen to him speaking yesterday.
:21:06. > :21:07.I'm delighted that we're not going to have a prolonged Conservative
:21:08. > :21:13.I think Andrea Leadsom has made absolutely the right decision to
:21:14. > :21:15.stand aside and it is clear Theresa May has the overwhelming
:21:16. > :21:17.support of the Conservative parliamentary party.
:21:18. > :21:20.I'm also delighted that Theresa May will be the next Prime Minister.
:21:21. > :21:28.She's more than able to provide the leadership our country
:21:29. > :21:31.is going to need in the years ahead and she will have my full support.
:21:32. > :21:37.Obviously with the changes, we now don't need to have a prolonged
:21:38. > :21:39.period of transition and so, tomorrow, I will chair my
:21:40. > :21:45.On Wednesday I will attend the House of Commons for Prime Minister'
:21:46. > :21:48.Questions and after that, I expect to go to the Palace
:21:49. > :21:53.So we will have a new Prime Minister in that building behind me by
:21:54. > :21:59.To discuss David Cameron and his legacy we're
:22:00. > :22:01.joined by Sam Gyimah, he's a Conservative minister
:22:02. > :22:03.and served as Mr Cameron's principal private secretary,
:22:04. > :22:08.and by the journalist Tim Montgomerie.
:22:09. > :22:15.Welcome to you both. Sam Gyimah, he will only be remembered for one
:22:16. > :22:19.thing, Europe and failing to keep Britain in the EU which is what he
:22:20. > :22:22.campaigned for? . I think it is incredible unfair. It is obviously
:22:23. > :22:25.down to historians to dissect everything that happened, but I
:22:26. > :22:29.think the two big things about David Cameron's leadership. Firstly, we
:22:30. > :22:33.forget when David Cameron became leader of the Conservative Party,
:22:34. > :22:37.how unpopular the party had become. In 1997 we were decimated in that
:22:38. > :22:40.election by Tony Blair. David Cameron became Prime Minister and
:22:41. > :22:44.led the party into Government for the first time in 18 years and then
:22:45. > :22:48.a majority Conservative Government for the first time in 23 years. What
:22:49. > :22:51.for me was remarkable about that particular achievement is he did
:22:52. > :22:56.that by also changing the party. In Government, I think he's also
:22:57. > :23:00.achieved a lot. He wanted to be the Prime Minister, he was all about
:23:01. > :23:04.sunny uplands but ended up being a Prime Minister who wanted to perform
:23:05. > :23:09.an economic rescue mission. It is still in progress but he did a great
:23:10. > :23:12.job on that. Is it true to say that actually some of the good things
:23:13. > :23:17.that Sam Gyimah thinks he did, will just be wiped out by the memory of
:23:18. > :23:23.Brexit and the EU referendum? I'm afraid so. He did do good things.
:23:24. > :23:27.Hitting the 0.7% target on foreign aid, for example. Same sex marriage
:23:28. > :23:31.were real achievements but of course he will be remembered for the
:23:32. > :23:35.European referendum defeat, which I welcome the result, but that will
:23:36. > :23:40.define how he is seen. I think he should also be remembered for some
:23:41. > :23:43.of the things he Assaidi he would do in Government, like eliminate the
:23:44. > :23:48.deficit. Well, we are only half way there to that and we have a
:23:49. > :23:51.misshapen state as well. He said he would control immigration and he
:23:52. > :23:56.certainly hasn't done that. There have been really important things,
:23:57. > :24:00.like schools reform and welcome reform, but if you evaluate him on
:24:01. > :24:03.the principled economic mission that he himself said was the Conservative
:24:04. > :24:08.Party's to achieve and deliver, he is way off target. I think when you
:24:09. > :24:12.have more people in work than ever before in our country today t didn't
:24:13. > :24:16.happen by accident. It -- it didn't happen by accident. It happened
:24:17. > :24:19.because he and George Osborne had an economic plan that has delivered. It
:24:20. > :24:24.is still work in progress but let's not forget that we had one of the
:24:25. > :24:26.worst recessions in the world. We had the biggest banking bailout in
:24:27. > :24:29.the world. Maybe we were overoptimistic in terms of how
:24:30. > :24:33.quickly it could be turned around. They failed in their main mission to
:24:34. > :24:38.eliminate the deficit, didn't they? Not at all. We stood on an election
:24:39. > :24:42.platform that we would be doing it by the end of this Parliament? And
:24:43. > :24:46.now announced they won't do it by the end of this Parliament. Not
:24:47. > :24:50.missed by a year or two, it is missed by a whole Parliament and
:24:51. > :24:53.more, Sam. Wherever you stand on the Brexit debate, Leave or Remain you
:24:54. > :24:57.have to understand we are in a situation where there is serious
:24:58. > :25:00.economic uncertainty and that means that the likelihood of meeting those
:25:01. > :25:04.targets by the end of the Parliament... Are you saying it was
:25:05. > :25:07.only because of the Brexit vote you are missing the targets. Were you
:25:08. > :25:11.really going to hit the surplus budget that George Osborne set
:25:12. > :25:16.whether we remained or left the EU? I think there was a serious
:25:17. > :25:20.programme to deliver that in terms of welfare reform and public
:25:21. > :25:25.accepting cuts, and there was a serious plan, confident. What do you
:25:26. > :25:29.think broadly in temples dealing with the coalition, and dealing with
:25:30. > :25:33.the recession, didn't David Cameron lead the country through that
:25:34. > :25:35.recession and out the other side I think one of his definite
:25:36. > :25:39.achievements was to hold that Coalition Government together. I
:25:40. > :25:43.suspect when that coalition was formed at the beginning of the last
:25:44. > :25:46.Parliament, most pundits thought it would collapse during the five
:25:47. > :25:50.years. It is a huge tribute to Nick Clegg and David Cameron that they
:25:51. > :25:53.made it work. I think it is also significant, though, and this is why
:25:54. > :25:56.Iain Duncan Smith resigned a few months ago, once the Liberal
:25:57. > :26:02.Democrats were no longer holding George Osborne and David Cameron
:26:03. > :26:06.back, you saw cuts in the Budget that more of affected the poor. So
:26:07. > :26:09.this that the rich were getting tax cuts and the poor were still getting
:26:10. > :26:12.austerity that. Didn't happen quite the same under the Liberal
:26:13. > :26:17.Democrats. I think it is interesting that Theresa May, in her speech
:26:18. > :26:21.yesterday, repudiating a lot of George Osborne's economic policy and
:26:22. > :26:25.said - there must be a much greater bias to the people at the bottom end
:26:26. > :26:31.of the income spectre. It is ironic, having won a majority, the fist one
:26:32. > :26:34.since 1992, that David Cameron is leaving a year later, under the
:26:35. > :26:38.coalition, somehow they managed better. Well, he called a
:26:39. > :26:45.referendum. He recommended Remain. Was that a mistake? I think we got
:26:46. > :26:50.to a place where there had to be a referendum on Europe. The settlement
:26:51. > :26:53.was not acceptable. He called it, he recommended Remain, the country
:26:54. > :26:57.voted the other way. I think it was the right course of action for him,
:26:58. > :27:00.to leave. I am a proud Conservative. We introduced the national living
:27:01. > :27:04.wage. When Tim talks about affecting the poor. That national living wage
:27:05. > :27:06.is a huge achievement, and one that many people never expected a
:27:07. > :27:11.Conservative Government to introduce. And the reason we can
:27:12. > :27:14.talk about ourselves today as a One Nation Government and not get
:27:15. > :27:18.laughed out of the room... Is it One Nation when the country is divided?
:27:19. > :27:21.You should get laughed out of the room for that. There was a huge
:27:22. > :27:26.banking crisis in which the country was screwed over by the banks and
:27:27. > :27:30.David Cameron and his Government stood full square behind the banks,
:27:31. > :27:33.when many parts of this country suffered and actually, in the end,
:27:34. > :27:37.it was probably that that did for him. There are places like
:27:38. > :27:41.Sunderland and Hartlepool, these first places that we remember, that
:27:42. > :27:46.came in with huge majorities for Leave, these are people who feel
:27:47. > :27:52.completely angry and unattended to and it is, and it is very, very - in
:27:53. > :27:55.part it is David Cameron's fault that has happened. Come on, Giles.
:27:56. > :28:00.The deindustrialisation in the North and some of these problems are
:28:01. > :28:05.decades in the making. To somehow say today that because RBS was
:28:06. > :28:10.rescued - and it had to be rescued - is why we have had problems there,
:28:11. > :28:15.is simply untrue. I think you are right to say the referendum has
:28:16. > :28:19.pointed to lots of parts of our country where there is a need to
:28:20. > :28:23.make sure that the country works for everyone. It was a rejection, wasn't
:28:24. > :28:27.it, of David Cameron wholesale, that bricts vote to some extent. Do you
:28:28. > :28:33.think it undermined his whole project? I think if he had been a
:28:34. > :28:37.popular who had the authority and people felt he was governing for the
:28:38. > :28:39.whole nation, he wouldn't have lost the referendum. The great
:28:40. > :28:42.opportunity for the Conservatives now, is we haven't just voted to
:28:43. > :28:47.leave the European Union, we voted for a reset of our politics. I think
:28:48. > :28:53.that begins for a if he cows on the North that's what we are talking
:28:54. > :28:56.about. -- begins for a focus. The northern powerhouse, and as
:28:57. > :29:03.Theresa May said yesterday, it was too focussed on Manchester and the
:29:04. > :29:08.North West, Sunderland, plenty other places have been neglected and an
:29:09. > :29:14.idea that they borrow ?100 billion, targeted on #23r5 infrastructure, I
:29:15. > :29:18.hope Theresa May accepts that. Why did he win in 2015? The referendum
:29:19. > :29:21.was not about David Cameron, the referendum was because a lot of
:29:22. > :29:27.people felt they weren't being listened to and they weren't being
:29:28. > :29:30.listened to, particularly by distant bureaucrats on Brussels and spe
:29:31. > :29:33.specificically issues like immigration. It wasn't a referendum
:29:34. > :29:37.on David Cameron, who won an unexpected majority a year ago. I
:29:38. > :29:42.think it was also very lucky, in his opposition. That has to be said. --
:29:43. > :29:46.he was lucky. The Labour Party is still going through trials and
:29:47. > :29:50.tribelations and was lucky in his opponents. If he had a more
:29:51. > :29:53.effective opposition, it would be been completely different. History.
:29:54. > :29:58.If something else had happened? If we look at some of the things you
:29:59. > :30:02.mention in terms of social reform, gay marriage, school reform, prison
:30:03. > :30:05.reform under way. Maybe parts of the party didn't like t welfare reform,
:30:06. > :30:08.NHS reform, not everyone supported these things, he was trying to be a
:30:09. > :30:13.moderniser within the Conservative Party. Wasn't he?
:30:14. > :30:20.There was that cover of the Economist where Cameron have the
:30:21. > :30:24.Mohican and punk haircut. But have they been a bit more focused on the
:30:25. > :30:29.core objectives like deficit reduction, they might have achieved
:30:30. > :30:33.more of what they needed to achieve and they actually became slightly
:30:34. > :30:39.distracted government in its early years. Will MPs miss David Cameron
:30:40. > :30:42.personally, do you think? I will miss him personally, I was his
:30:43. > :30:46.private secretary and I didn't know him before I became an MP and I was
:30:47. > :30:50.in his inner circle and saw him working close. I will miss him
:30:51. > :30:56.tremendously and a lot of Conservative in the 20 15th and 2010
:30:57. > :30:59.intake, they know they are in Parliament today because of David
:31:00. > :31:04.Cameron. He delivered electoral success that is why they can be MPs
:31:05. > :31:08.representing their constituents. Because he wasn't seen as somebody
:31:09. > :31:11.that popular in the Parliamentary party in all sections. There was a
:31:12. > :31:16.distance and aloofness between himself and the party. You were one
:31:17. > :31:23.of the conduits between the office and the MPs. Is that fair? I was
:31:24. > :31:27.popular when I have that job. I bet you were. Everybody wanted to talk
:31:28. > :31:31.to me. During the coalition in particular, Number ten had to make a
:31:32. > :31:36.big effort to make sure it was connected with the Parliamentary
:31:37. > :31:40.party. What you had was Nick Clegg, Danny Alexander, David Cameron and
:31:41. > :31:44.George Osborne, they would thrash out ideas, announce them and then
:31:45. > :31:48.the Parliamentary party felt disconnected. There needed to be a
:31:49. > :31:53.doubling down so the Parliamentary party was plugged in. There were a
:31:54. > :31:58.range of people, if you crossed David Cameron wants, you are out. He
:31:59. > :32:01.was quite an unforgiving Prime Minister to his critics. Theresa
:32:02. > :32:05.May, I hope, won't repeat that mistake. The Tories only have a
:32:06. > :32:09.majority of 12 may need to treat each other with a little bit more
:32:10. > :32:12.mutual respect and not be so high and mighty in Downing Street. Let's
:32:13. > :32:15.see how that works out. Thank you very much.
:32:16. > :32:17.So yesterday's remarkable sequence of events, which saw
:32:18. > :32:18.Theresa May installed as Prime Minister-in-waiting,
:32:19. > :32:20.was triggered by the withdrawal of Andrew Leadsom from
:32:21. > :32:24.She said she did not have enough support among MPs to head
:32:25. > :32:31.I have, however, concluded that the interests of our country
:32:32. > :32:34.are best-served by the immediate appointment of a strong and
:32:35. > :32:44.I'm therefore withdrawing from the leadership election,
:32:45. > :32:47.and I wish Theresa May the very greatest success.
:32:48. > :32:57.It's thought Mrs Leadsom's withdrew in part because of the response
:32:58. > :33:00.to an interview she gave with the Times on Saturday,
:33:01. > :33:03.in which she said that having children meant she "had a very real
:33:04. > :33:09.This appeared to many as an attempt to turn her motherhood
:33:10. > :33:11.into an advantage over her childless rival, Mrs May.
:33:12. > :33:14.Well, the journalist who conducted the interview, Rachel Sylvester,
:33:15. > :33:17.writes today that Mrs Leadsom suffered from inexperience
:33:18. > :33:31.Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do you agree that sure Saturday
:33:32. > :33:36.interview Kilduff Andrea Leadsom's leadership ambitions? No, I am a
:33:37. > :33:39.journalist and I don't kill off leadership ambitions. But it exposed
:33:40. > :33:44.flaws in the candidacy that was there. It was the answer is that did
:33:45. > :33:47.the damage, not the questions. And a lot of her colleagues were already
:33:48. > :33:53.worrying about her lack of experience. And she had not been
:33:54. > :33:57.tested in the pressure of the leadership campaign, and her lack of
:33:58. > :34:02.experience showed quite quickly. What was going through your mind
:34:03. > :34:07.when you ask those fairly open questions about motherhood when
:34:08. > :34:10.Andrea Leadsom made the incendiary remark about having children giving
:34:11. > :34:13.her a stake in the future of the country. First of all I asked her
:34:14. > :34:18.what was the difference between you and Theresa May which was meant to
:34:19. > :34:23.be an open-ended question the her to give a pitch. And then she spoke
:34:24. > :34:26.about economic confidence, then she said she was an optimist and had a
:34:27. > :34:30.large family, including her children. I then remembered that
:34:31. > :34:38.during the EU referendum debates she often spoke as a mother. She talked
:34:39. > :34:42.about it a lot. It was clearly part of her political identity, so it was
:34:43. > :34:46.a logical question to ask if motherhood informs her politics. And
:34:47. > :34:51.that was the answer she gave. Were you surprised? I was a bit shocked,
:34:52. > :34:55.more on an emotional level because I thought that was quite hurtful thing
:34:56. > :35:00.to to Theresa May. I didn't immediately think in political terms
:35:01. > :35:04.it was incredibly damaging, I thought about it rather more
:35:05. > :35:07.emotionally. I was surprised but then quickly the conversation moved
:35:08. > :35:13.onto other things and we were talking about her policies other
:35:14. > :35:19.aspects of the contest. But that was the bit that stuck in my mind. What
:35:20. > :35:22.about other reasons, if you like, the other reasons she outlined when
:35:23. > :35:26.she stood on the doorstep and read that letter. You said she wasn't
:35:27. > :35:31.really prepared for the brutality of the campaign. Do you stand by that?
:35:32. > :35:36.That it is brutal and somebody like her who is not media trained in that
:35:37. > :35:40.sense is not going to survive? Yes, and it's not just about being media
:35:41. > :35:45.trained, as Eric Pickles said, you have to go up against Vladimir Putin
:35:46. > :35:50.and into negotiations with some of the most experienced negotiators
:35:51. > :35:55.around Europe, the political poker players of the world. It's not just
:35:56. > :35:58.about the media. You need a resilience if you're going to be
:35:59. > :36:01.Prime Minister and you need good judgment and character. It's not
:36:02. > :36:04.just about sure policies. What was your response when you heard that
:36:05. > :36:09.Andrea Leadsom was pulling out of the race yesterday? I was delighted,
:36:10. > :36:14.because I'm glad she's not Prime Minister. Not that I think that was
:36:15. > :36:18.ever likely to happen. Your interview, I thought, was very
:36:19. > :36:23.significant. I think people felt she westernised motherhood in a way that
:36:24. > :36:31.was unacceptable. -- made motherhood a weapon. That showed her naivete.
:36:32. > :36:38.She also bottled it, on top of being naive, she revealed herself to have
:36:39. > :36:42.a bit of a glass jaw. I'm glad, politics aside, that she's not in
:36:43. > :36:47.the race. But her supporter John Redwood yesterday said he admired
:36:48. > :36:52.the fact that she was spun and optimistic and fresh. Are we now in
:36:53. > :36:57.an era where you cannot have that? Perhaps maybe the Leader of the
:36:58. > :37:00.Opposition, but certainly not to be leader and Prime Minister? It
:37:01. > :37:06.depends what is unspun. Kenneth Clarke speaks his mind, even when he
:37:07. > :37:11.was caught on the Mike unwittingly. Nobody minded. But it depends if the
:37:12. > :37:16.unspun reveals that you do think motherhood gives you an advantage,
:37:17. > :37:21.that is off-putting to some people, and I think the other point you
:37:22. > :37:24.mentioned was there was a majority of MPs who were against and there
:37:25. > :37:30.was a danger of a Jeremy Corbyn situation with the impasse between
:37:31. > :37:36.the Parliamentary party in the country. What about the fact that
:37:37. > :37:40.now we have Theresa May certainly becoming Prime Minister, but all of
:37:41. > :37:45.the Leave candidates who stood for the contests have fallen by the
:37:46. > :37:49.wayside, one way or another and the new leader, sceptical she may have
:37:50. > :37:54.been about wanting to remain, she is the new leader without much effort.
:37:55. > :37:59.It is extraordinary. You feel they led us to this situation and where
:38:00. > :38:03.are they? The problem for Theresa May will be constant calls of
:38:04. > :38:08.betrayal. She says Brexit is Brexit, but it can mean a million things. If
:38:09. > :38:14.she negotiates some kind of deal that involves aspects of free
:38:15. > :38:19.movement remaining immediately the pure Brexit campaign will get
:38:20. > :38:23.incredibly cross. Why isn't there a Leave candidates still standing? I
:38:24. > :38:27.voted to leave but I didn't vote for people. It was not a general
:38:28. > :38:30.election where you voted to candidates with policies, I was
:38:31. > :38:35.voting the something for what it said on the paper. It was rather
:38:36. > :38:38.important to me that I was voting for something rather than people
:38:39. > :38:43.because a lot of people I was voting alongside I didn't share much of
:38:44. > :38:47.their politics in other ways. I think this demonstrated the truth of
:38:48. > :38:51.that. We didn't vote for a set of people or policy, we voted to leave
:38:52. > :38:53.or remain. Rachel Sylvester, thank you.
:38:54. > :38:55.So from a leadership contest which has moved at lightning speed
:38:56. > :38:58.to one which is travelling at little more than a snail's pace.
:38:59. > :39:01.It's been more than two weeks since Labour Leader, Jeremy Corbyn,
:39:02. > :39:03.began to be hit by a wave of Shadow Cabinet resignations,
:39:04. > :39:06.and yesterday a challenger in the shape of Angela
:39:07. > :39:12.But the fate of Mr Corbyn may hang on a meeting of Labour's ruling
:39:13. > :39:18.Our reporter, Mark Lobel, is outside Labour HQ
:39:19. > :39:29.Mark, what is happening? Not long to wait because in an hour and a half
:39:30. > :39:33.the Labour National executive committee will meet at the Labour
:39:34. > :39:36.headquarters behind me to determine whether Jeremy Corbyn automatically
:39:37. > :39:42.gets on the leadership ballot or whether he has to get nominations
:39:43. > :39:48.from 51 MPs and MEPs, which many say he would struggle to get. They would
:39:49. > :39:51.also determine now the contest has been triggered by Angela Eagle, how
:39:52. > :39:56.long other candidates have to throw their hat in the ring and also who
:39:57. > :39:59.will be voting in the contest as we have registered supporters that were
:40:00. > :40:06.crucial to Jeremy Corbyn's victory last time, and the people who paid
:40:07. > :40:09.?3 last time, and that might go up, and how long they have to register
:40:10. > :40:12.their support. Nobody wants to make predictions about anything these
:40:13. > :40:18.days, which I understand, but do you think he will be on the ballot?
:40:19. > :40:21.Let's explain what has to happen. Normally the ballot will be
:40:22. > :40:25.interpreted by Labour Party rules but because it is such a divisive
:40:26. > :40:32.contest as we have seen with a brick going through Angela Eagle's window,
:40:33. > :40:35.the Labour Party general secretary decided to get legal advice. His
:40:36. > :40:42.legal advice says that Jeremy Corbyn automatically would not get on the
:40:43. > :40:45.ballot, but we have seen contrary advice from the unions and a member
:40:46. > :40:49.of the NEC and they say they will challenge it in court. It is now
:40:50. > :40:54.down to an NEC decision. They have to sit down amongst the group and
:40:55. > :40:57.decide. I have gone through the 33 members what their public utterances
:40:58. > :41:01.have been over the last few days, and Jeremy Corbyn would have a
:41:02. > :41:05.majority of around five. The problem is, one person can't turn up today
:41:06. > :41:13.and one will be late to the meeting and there is talk of a secret ballot
:41:14. > :41:15.which would mean that some of the union backed members might vote
:41:16. > :41:18.against how they publicly stated they would vote which is for Jeremy
:41:19. > :41:22.Corbyn. Jeremy Corbyn is so rattled that he is coming down to the
:41:23. > :41:25.meeting himself because he is a member and he has a vote about his
:41:26. > :41:27.own future as well. Mark, it is agonising.
:41:28. > :41:29.We're joined now by the former Shadow Education Secretary,
:41:30. > :41:32.Lucy Powell, she resigned two weeks ago and is calling for
:41:33. > :41:41.The NEC is meeting later on today and they will decide whether Jeremy
:41:42. > :41:46.Corbyn is automatically on the ballot paper. Do you want to make a
:41:47. > :41:52.plea to them to ensure he isn't? I personally feel will have nothing to
:41:53. > :41:54.fear about Jeremy being on the ballot paper in the sense that I
:41:55. > :41:59.think the support for him amongst the party membership is falling and
:42:00. > :42:04.falling quickly indeed. If you look at the polling that is happening
:42:05. > :42:09.amongst party members, trade union affiliates and what is coming up
:42:10. > :42:12.from the grass roots. In my own constituency I have had many, many
:42:13. > :42:16.e-mails and phone calls from people who voted for Jeremy last year who
:42:17. > :42:20.now think it is untenable that he can continue without the support of
:42:21. > :42:23.his Parliamentary colleagues. But what the NEC are deciding today is
:42:24. > :42:27.not a political decision and it shouldn't be a political decision.
:42:28. > :42:30.It is about the rules of the Labour Party. But they can be interpreted
:42:31. > :42:33.either way, so it will be a political decision. I don't think
:42:34. > :42:41.they can be interpreted either way, I think they are pretty clear. There
:42:42. > :42:44.are two things I would point you to, one is the rule itself which says
:42:45. > :42:46.where there is a vacancy is thereafter potential challengers and
:42:47. > :42:53.in this case any nomination must be supported by 20%. But they are
:42:54. > :42:57.talking about challengers, not the incumbent. If you look at the most
:42:58. > :43:01.recent rule changes we made on the contest, the Collins review, it said
:43:02. > :43:05.in recognition of the fact that the leader of the Labour Party has a
:43:06. > :43:08.special duty to head the Parliamentary Labour Party in
:43:09. > :43:11.Westminster, MPs will retain the responsibility of deciding the final
:43:12. > :43:18.short list of candidates that will be put to the ballot. As I say,
:43:19. > :43:24.whilst I would be confident of any contest, I think our forefathers and
:43:25. > :43:28.those that drew up the constitution, including many trade union leaders
:43:29. > :43:32.would have never imagined a circumstance where the leader of the
:43:33. > :43:39.Labour Party was seeking to continue on the basis of having less than 20%
:43:40. > :43:43.support of his MPs. So the NEC are today being asked to make an
:43:44. > :43:47.exceptional, political decision to put him on the ballot paper
:43:48. > :43:51.automatically. Why should he be on that ballot paper automatically in
:43:52. > :43:55.this case if those are the rules? We can either talk about the legal
:43:56. > :44:01.stuff all we can talk about a different angle, which is to say
:44:02. > :44:04.that if he is not on it it will look like an enormous stitch up to a lot
:44:05. > :44:08.of people. It will look like a stitch up because there are a lot of
:44:09. > :44:11.people out there who want to vote for him, maybe the majority of
:44:12. > :44:16.Labour members who want to vote for him. Least -- Lucy Powell says its
:44:17. > :44:21.diminishing. Well, let's test it. Everyone should agree, if that's the
:44:22. > :44:27.case, supporters of Jeremy like myself, if there is a vote and he
:44:28. > :44:32.loses, he loses and that is a way of uniting the party around a new
:44:33. > :44:39.candidate. If, however, you don't put him, not you, plural, and the
:44:40. > :44:42.PLP has a responsibility, and if he is not on the ballot there will be
:44:43. > :44:49.the most enormous crisis for the Labour Party. There is a crisis now.
:44:50. > :44:52.The Labour Party might well split, because there will be people like me
:44:53. > :44:56.from the left of the party who would feel that basically they are not
:44:57. > :45:00.wanted in the party. That the socialist alternative is not really
:45:01. > :45:03.required, and we will feel unable to continue to be a part of the Labour
:45:04. > :45:09.Party. Is that a risk you are willing to take? It's not my
:45:10. > :45:14.decision. But you could come out and say put him on the ballot paper. I
:45:15. > :45:18.agree with your sentiment that this is better resolved in a different
:45:19. > :45:23.way. All I am saying is, we have to take some of the heat out of the
:45:24. > :45:27.situation. The NEC, who are an elected body of the Labour Party,
:45:28. > :45:33.are there to uphold the rules. They may well choose, and Jerry May has
:45:34. > :45:39.many more supporters on the NEC than dope supported -- Jeremy. They may
:45:40. > :45:43.take an exceptional decision to put him on the ballot paper and I
:45:44. > :45:51.believe in that contest Jeromy is likely to lose in any case. You are
:45:52. > :45:56.speaking in favour of that, being on the ballot for political reasons?
:45:57. > :46:04.I think the NEC's job is to uphold the rules and the rules are clear
:46:05. > :46:08.Would you be in ( favour of... . I have nothing to fear about him being
:46:09. > :46:11.on the ballot people but I feel those who are out this morning,
:46:12. > :46:14.bullying and mob rule, throwing bricks through people's windows and
:46:15. > :46:21.having demonstrations outside the ne. C meeting, against elected
:46:22. > :46:23.members of the NEC, who are there to make a perfectly rational and
:46:24. > :46:30.judicial dedecision about the rules of Labour Party, should be able to
:46:31. > :46:35.do that in their own way, not have political interference from me for
:46:36. > :46:38.Giles. We have had MPs on here, anecdotally talking about
:46:39. > :46:43.intimidation from Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, talks of treachery and
:46:44. > :46:49.betrayal and then Len McCluskey saying, actually in his mind, if his
:46:50. > :46:53.mind Jeremy Corbyn has been dealt with by a lifrnl mob, bullying and
:46:54. > :46:59.bludgeoning. Two things. The brick is unacceptable. When it turns into
:47:00. > :47:02.any sort of physical violence, it is entirely and utterly unacceptable.
:47:03. > :47:05.You I will say that three or four times to make that clear but
:47:06. > :47:09.actually demonstrations are not unacceptable. Making your views
:47:10. > :47:13.known are not unacceptable. Making your views known passionately is not
:47:14. > :47:15.unacceptal. You say there will be a large section of the membership,
:47:16. > :47:19.perhaps the majority, that will be very, very unhappy. And it is
:47:20. > :47:23.difficult to quantify. But it isn't it true that in order to lead a
:47:24. > :47:27.political party under the system we have, you must have the confidence
:47:28. > :47:30.of the parliamentary party. You are a shadow Government, the idea is you
:47:31. > :47:34.are preparing for Government. You are not leading a movement in that
:47:35. > :47:37.strict sense of the word. Isn't that how our parliamentary democracy
:47:38. > :47:41.works? Maybe we are in a process of relinement. There are all sorts of
:47:42. > :47:44.problems about MPs and members and the people themselves that are out
:47:45. > :47:48.of whack with each other. And it could be that the Labour Party is,
:47:49. > :47:52.itself, heading for a split, where there are parts of the Labour Party
:47:53. > :47:56.that seem very, very close to what Theresa May was saying - workers on
:47:57. > :48:01.the boards, and so forth. The whole idea that that is close to Ed
:48:02. > :48:05.Miliband is true. So there is a part of the Labour Party which would be
:48:06. > :48:10.more comfortable in the left of the Tory Party, and they seem to be a
:48:11. > :48:14.long, long way away from socialism, as I understand it, as traditionally
:48:15. > :48:19.conceived. I think the Labour Party may well not hold together. . That's
:48:20. > :48:23.not me and the vast majority of Labour. That's not me. Do you think
:48:24. > :48:27.it'll stick together? I joined the Labour Party when I was 15, under
:48:28. > :48:30.Margaret Thatcher. I lived in Manchester, at a comprehensive
:48:31. > :48:33.school. I saw what happened to my country under Margaret Thatcher and
:48:34. > :48:38.my friends who had no life chance at all. I'm not going anywhere. This is
:48:39. > :48:43.my Labour Party, as much as it is anybody else's. But I think we have
:48:44. > :48:46.a tradition in our party which is clearly exemplified in the rules of
:48:47. > :48:49.the Labour Party, where you have to, as a leader, both lead the
:48:50. > :48:53.parliamentary party as well as the wider membership. I think we can
:48:54. > :48:57.move forward from this with a candidate who holds true to our
:48:58. > :49:01.values of our socialist roots, while at the same time uniting both
:49:02. > :49:06.aspects of the party. Are you batting Angela Eagle or Owen Smith?
:49:07. > :49:10.Personally I think Owen would stand a better chance of beating Jeremy
:49:11. > :49:13.Corbyn. I think we need a generational shift but Angela has
:49:14. > :49:17.showed herself to be gutsy and ballsy. I will back whoever comes
:49:18. > :49:23.top of that. That is a Powell from Jeremy Corbyn
:49:24. > :49:26.on the subject of the brick that was thrown through the constituency
:49:27. > :49:30.office. "It is disturbing that Angela Eagle has been the victim of
:49:31. > :49:34.a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As
:49:35. > :49:37.someone who has also received death threats this week and previously I'm
:49:38. > :49:40.calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and
:49:41. > :49:44.treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is a
:49:45. > :49:48.disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats which undermine
:49:49. > :49:49.democracy within our party and have no palatial in our politics, thank
:49:50. > :49:52.you." Now. Does anybody fancy another
:49:53. > :49:54.general election? We had one only last May -
:49:55. > :49:57.you might remember the Conservatives won a surprise majority -
:49:58. > :50:03.but with a new Prime Minister set to be installed there have been
:50:04. > :50:05.calls from opposition parties for Theresa May to go
:50:06. > :50:07.to the country. But how do the voting public feel
:50:08. > :50:10.about the idea of another Greetings from Croydon,
:50:11. > :50:14.where it's stopped raining just long enough for us to ask the great
:50:15. > :50:18.British public when the next general Now, or in 2020, as it
:50:19. > :50:25.says under the law. They need to get the ball rolling
:50:26. > :50:28.for Brexit first. She's going to be the next Prime
:50:29. > :50:50.Minister. Excited
:50:51. > :50:51.by that? I think it with strengthen her hand
:50:52. > :50:57.if she did have a general election. At the end of the day, they voted
:50:58. > :51:03.for a party, not one person, so whether it is Cameron leading it
:51:04. > :51:06.or May leading it, I I think it would be better
:51:07. > :51:21.for the country to get it over and done with -
:51:22. > :51:23.do it now. Do you not think the country has had
:51:24. > :51:25.enough of voting already? Well, if the weather carries
:51:26. > :51:29.on like this, during Theresa May's Premiership,
:51:30. > :51:31.she'll have to wear much There's a mum explaining to her son
:51:32. > :51:45.what's happening - he's living through a great moment in
:51:46. > :51:48.political history. We are getting a new Prime Minister,
:51:49. > :51:59.should we have a new general Why are
:52:00. > :52:05.you laughing? I think they should wait
:52:06. > :52:08.because more people can then make Yes, and give her a bit of time
:52:09. > :52:15.to have done something. Put it in the 2020 box
:52:16. > :52:21.and I'll hold the pram. Do you think she should
:52:22. > :52:23.have a general election? I think so, yes, because a lot
:52:24. > :52:26.of people in this country aren't happy with the whole Brexit
:52:27. > :52:28.scenario that happened. They had a vote but because it was
:52:29. > :52:33.so close a lot of people felt that it was kind of -
:52:34. > :52:36.they wanted it to be Time for the big reveal under
:52:37. > :52:39.the Daily Politics' umbrella. Look, a bulk of people in Croydon
:52:40. > :52:42.think there should be a general Now, where are those
:52:43. > :52:54.Daily Politics' towels? Well, the weather was unkind there
:52:55. > :53:02.for Adam Fleming testing the public. Well, we're joined now by Lib Dem
:53:03. > :53:04.president Sal Brinton, who is calling for an early general
:53:05. > :53:11.election, and by the Conservative MP Sal Brinton, the Liberal Democrats
:53:12. > :53:16.wanted the fixed term Parliament Act why chapg your mind in No, there is
:53:17. > :53:22.provision to call an election. Clear cry tieria, 65% of MPs or in the
:53:23. > :53:26.event of a vote of no confidence and 14 days, for exactly the reason we
:53:27. > :53:29.are in now. When there is a major change in the country, the
:53:30. > :53:32.referendum was the biggest decision this country has made in decades and
:53:33. > :53:37.Frank lit Conservative manifesto voted on last year, most has gone
:53:38. > :53:41.out of the window. Stability has gone, Osborne has gone away from
:53:42. > :53:45.austerity. All of those reasons, a new Prime Minister, needs a new
:53:46. > :53:50.mandate, not least for the plans for Brexit. She was a Remainor, the UK
:53:51. > :53:52.has voted to leave. She has only been elected Prime Minister for your
:53:53. > :53:56.colleagues. I voted guest the nonsense of the fixed term
:53:57. > :54:00.Parliament Act at second and that I had reading and it was the Liberal
:54:01. > :54:05.Democrats who were behind it but the truth is we have had three changes
:54:06. > :54:07.of Prime Minister in my lifetime, Wilson Callaghan, Thatcher-Major and
:54:08. > :54:11.Blair hop Brown all three parliaments ran for five years, so
:54:12. > :54:15.there is no constitutional precedent. But as you remember,
:54:16. > :54:17.Gordon Brown was always said to have regretted that decision, certainly
:54:18. > :54:21.of having marched everyone to the top of the hill and in the calling
:54:22. > :54:24.that election and having a popular mandate. But he was promoting an
:54:25. > :54:28.early general election, Theresa May isn't, if she's talking about going
:54:29. > :54:32.to 2020. Isn't that the case, if she quells any talk of an early general
:54:33. > :54:36.election, then at least she will have settled the decision. It will
:54:37. > :54:39.be interesting to see if she can do that. Your popular vote on the
:54:40. > :54:43.streets of Croydon was showing there was a strong momentum at the moment
:54:44. > :54:47.-- people saying, where are we standing at the moment, where are we
:54:48. > :54:51.going to do Go? Let's not forget in 2007, it was Theresa May who called
:54:52. > :54:54.for Gordon Brown who have an election because he had no mandate.
:54:55. > :54:58.Right. I mean, is now the right time? Absolutely not. Theresa May
:54:59. > :55:01.has to get on and do stu. I think the Liberal Democrats are sore
:55:02. > :55:07.losers about the referendum and they are just looking for a way to turn
:55:08. > :55:10.the clock back and try and weedle their way out of a very clear
:55:11. > :55:16.decision that the country made. And, so, I think basically we have to get
:55:17. > :55:21.on and do it. The country has spoken and what Theresa May's big job is,
:55:22. > :55:25.is to implement what the will of the British people is. We have had
:55:26. > :55:28.enough uncertainty. It isn't just the Liberal Democrats. Labour were
:55:29. > :55:32.calling for it earlier today as well. I'm not sure about Labour,
:55:33. > :55:36.that Labour universally... I don't think Jeremy Corbyn in his heart or
:55:37. > :55:40.hearts or even his heart wants a general election. Some of the MPs
:55:41. > :55:45.might. The point surely is whether the new Prime Minister has a man it
:55:46. > :55:51.do and we -- a mandate and we and many other politicians are
:55:52. > :55:56.concerned. We don't elect Prime Ministers, we elect governments.
:55:57. > :55:58.This is why I voted guest the be a. Are you regretting that? No
:55:59. > :56:02.emergency provision is there for this decision where the country has
:56:03. > :56:06.made the biggest decision in decades. The landscape has changed.
:56:07. > :56:10.Would it be better to wait until we have a clear idea at least at to
:56:11. > :56:14.what the renegotiation might look like, so not now, but maybe 18
:56:15. > :56:18.months' time. We are saying an election for a mandate, we are not
:56:19. > :56:21.saying next week but clearly, at the moment, we have a Prime Minister
:56:22. > :56:25.coming in tomorrow. There is no clear Brexit plan and, whats' more,
:56:26. > :56:30.the economy has changed. -- what's more. This is shouting, fire, fire.
:56:31. > :56:34.It is nottage emergency situation, we require not people shouting fire,
:56:35. > :56:38.we require people having calm heads, getting on and implementing what the
:56:39. > :56:42.will of the British people was and it was pretty clear Can you tell us
:56:43. > :56:47.what it is? Yes, leave the European Union. It was there on the paper. It
:56:48. > :56:51.is not that simple, it is all the detail. Which has to be worked out.
:56:52. > :56:54.Would it strengthen her negotiation position in terms of Brexit... She
:56:55. > :56:58.is not going to have a general election. She would have to persuade
:56:59. > :57:02.Conservative Party colleagues to have a vote of no confidence in her.
:57:03. > :57:06.You don't think they would do that. How ridiculous would that be, she is
:57:07. > :57:10.about to become Prime Minister and within a couple of weeks we have a
:57:11. > :57:12.vote of no confidence. People should have thought about this when they
:57:13. > :57:19.passed the fixed-term Parliament Act. All I would say is that over
:57:20. > :57:22.the last few weeks, things have changed dramatically, events, events
:57:23. > :57:25.dear boy. There was only a general election last year But things have
:57:26. > :57:29.changed really fundamentally. They have changed. Well, we are going to
:57:30. > :57:33.change Prime Minister. Thank you both for coming on to the programme.
:57:34. > :57:36.There is just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:57:37. > :57:38.David Cameron appeared to forget he still had a microphone on after
:57:39. > :57:41.delivering a brief statement in Downing Street yesterday.
:57:42. > :57:48.The question was what did he do as he walked back into number 10?
:57:49. > :57:53.Was it A) mutter 'Caribbean here we come'.
:57:54. > :58:04.or Dd) ask Sam to open a bottle of something cold?
:58:05. > :58:12.Open somethingcold. No let's have a look.
:58:13. > :58:22.You may not recognise it. Do you have any ideas what it might have
:58:23. > :58:29.been? It certainly wasn't the tune you have there. There are way too
:58:30. > :58:34.many notes in T What do you think? He sound the upbeat and - I've got
:58:35. > :58:38.out. He is going home and going to enjoy himself. Well, go on then. He
:58:39. > :58:41.is probably going to the Caribbean as well. And probably opened a
:58:42. > :58:46.bottle of something. Well thank you for being my guest of the day, Giles
:58:47. > :58:50.and to all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting on BBC One.
:58:51. > :58:52.We will be back at 11.30pm tomorrow for the last Prime Minister's
:58:53. > :58:55.Questions for David Cameron. Goodbye.