16/09/2016: UKIP Conference

:00:00. > :00:12.It has been very busy. We have swapped the exceptional September

:00:13. > :00:38.heat for some exceptionally thundery downpours.

:00:39. > :00:43.As Ukip prepares to unveil its new leader, Nigel Farage

:00:44. > :00:46.delivers his final leader's speech - we'll bring you that live

:00:47. > :00:48.from the UKIP conference in Bournemouth, and ask where the

:00:49. > :00:57.It's achieved its central goal but there are defections

:00:58. > :01:00.and disarray in Ukip in the wake of the Brexit vote -

:01:01. > :01:03.one of Nigel Farage's former aides tells us why she's leaving

:01:04. > :01:10.EU leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss Brexit and other

:01:11. > :01:16.Theresa May won't be there, so what deal will the remaining 27

:01:17. > :01:21.members offer Britain outside the EU?

:01:22. > :01:26.And Britain may not be part of it, and many assured us it

:01:27. > :01:28.wasn't on the cards, but will the EU soon

:01:29. > :01:40.All that in the next 90 minutes - and with us for the next hour,

:01:41. > :01:47.First this morning, let's just hear what outgoing Ukip leader

:01:48. > :01:55.Nigel Farage has been saying about you.

:01:56. > :01:57.Genuinely, I don't know why he joined.

:01:58. > :02:00.He doesn't seem to believe anything we stand for, it's rather odd.

:02:01. > :02:05.He doesn't contribute to what we do as a national political party.

:02:06. > :02:08.He just happens to be the MP for the most Eurosceptic

:02:09. > :02:12.All the democratic data puts Clacton the number one jurisdiction...

:02:13. > :02:16.Well, at the time it seemed like a good idea.

:02:17. > :02:40.Nigel Farage on Sky News. He says he doesn't know why you joined Ukip.

:02:41. > :02:43.Can you remember why you joined? I wanted to make sure we had a

:02:44. > :02:47.referendum and I wanted to make sure that the group thinking in

:02:48. > :02:52.Westminster on the Europe question was broken and as a consequence of

:02:53. > :02:57.the by-election, I think that's one of the reasons, one of a number of

:02:58. > :03:03.reasons, why we had a referendum. He says you must feel, quote, very

:03:04. > :03:07.uncomfortable in Ukip. Do you feel uncomfortable in Ukip? There are

:03:08. > :03:10.times when it seems as if you do. I feel uncomfortable with the nativist

:03:11. > :03:15.sentiment of Assyrian posters, I felt uncomfortable with the shock

:03:16. > :03:18.and awful tactics that were rejected by the electorate in the run-up to

:03:19. > :03:22.the last general election but ultimately, I think Nigel find it

:03:23. > :03:30.difficult, forgive me, forwarding my seat. I brought two thirds of our

:03:31. > :03:33.Parliamentary election results. There are some in Ukip you find it

:03:34. > :03:39.difficult to forgive me not just because I won but because I won by

:03:40. > :03:43.not imitating that shock and awe. To Giteau that so singularly failed

:03:44. > :03:48.elsewhere. But that's what the party, in many regards, was about.

:03:49. > :03:52.You knew what you were getting into. I disagree. I think Ukip can and

:03:53. > :03:56.should and has a tradition of being a libertarian, free-market party.

:03:57. > :04:00.There is a cartel in Westminster. The established parties have rigged

:04:01. > :04:04.the existing system. We could break that and I think we desperately do

:04:05. > :04:08.need a new force in British politics that will break that. That could

:04:09. > :04:11.still be Ukip. It is not just the groupthink surrounding Europe policy

:04:12. > :04:14.that is holding the country back, there was groupthink over a whole

:04:15. > :04:19.range of issues whether cartel of parties aren't giving us the change

:04:20. > :04:23.this country needs. Ukip could be that force. Now that most people in

:04:24. > :04:27.Westminster approach on leaving the European Union, a sensible control

:04:28. > :04:31.policy on immigration, let's shift the groupthink on all those other

:04:32. > :04:34.things like quantitative easing and monetary policy which are enriching

:04:35. > :04:38.a few bankers at the expense of everyone else. The family court

:04:39. > :04:42.system... There is a whole range of topics where change is desperately

:04:43. > :04:48.needed. UR voice of one and there was no sense that Ukip could go down

:04:49. > :04:53.that road. -- you are a voice of one. Is it not all over for you? I

:04:54. > :04:58.think with a new leader we have the chance to press the reset button and

:04:59. > :05:02.I think if we have a leader, and I've been calling for a change of

:05:03. > :05:05.leadership for some time, if we do press the reset button and avoid

:05:06. > :05:09.some infighting, it is a huge opportunity. Look at the broader

:05:10. > :05:14.picture. The Conservative Party looks like it is a one party mini at

:05:15. > :05:19.the moment. They only got 37% last election. The Liberal Democrats are

:05:20. > :05:22.on holiday from history. We need a new leader, a fresh face and a

:05:23. > :05:25.slightly more optimistic and cheerful tone. If we have that, the

:05:26. > :05:30.sky is the limit it up very well. So we're expecting Nigel Farage

:05:31. > :05:33.to come to his feet It's supposed to be his last speech

:05:34. > :05:37.to Conference as party leader - but he has resigned twice before

:05:38. > :05:40.only to make comebacks. He built Ukip from a minority,

:05:41. > :05:42.fringe party to one that got 14% of the vote

:05:43. > :05:45.at the last general election. Nigel Farage himself failed

:05:46. > :05:48.to become an MP in 2010 and 2015. But the party now has 22 MEPs,

:05:49. > :05:51.as well as one MP and a presence Perhaps their greatest achievement

:05:52. > :06:00.was to secure a Leave vote in the EU Referendum on June 23rd,

:06:01. > :06:06.which Mr Farage hailed But with that secured,

:06:07. > :06:15.what's the future of the party? Diane James is the favourite

:06:16. > :06:17.to take over as leader this afternoon, but some of the party's

:06:18. > :06:20.biggest names - like Suzanne Evans and Steven Woolfe -

:06:21. > :06:22.were unable to take part A row in the party in Wales

:06:23. > :06:26.means their leader there - Nathan Gill - is now sitting

:06:27. > :06:32.as an independent in the Assembly. And yesterday on this programme,

:06:33. > :06:35.the party's former director, Steve Stanbury, announced his

:06:36. > :06:42.defection to the Conservatives. We're joined now by former

:06:43. > :06:45.Ukip Head of Media and aide to Nigel Farage Alex Phillips,

:06:46. > :06:47.who has said today that she is leaving the party

:06:48. > :06:58.and joining the Conservatives. Why? I think it's quite simple.

:06:59. > :07:02.First of all, Ukip is itself cannibalising. It is eating itself

:07:03. > :07:06.from the inside out. But when I saw Theresa May become Prime Minister

:07:07. > :07:10.and start talking about selective education, and I've read about her

:07:11. > :07:13.ascent to do exploratory drilling to look for shale gas, for energy

:07:14. > :07:17.security, those things are key policies that I really believe in

:07:18. > :07:21.and I think you can either be loyal to an organisation or loyalty or

:07:22. > :07:25.convictions. So you think because of the direction that the May

:07:26. > :07:31.Conservative government is going in now, there is not a need for Ukip?

:07:32. > :07:36.My position is, for me on the things that I believe in, I don't need

:07:37. > :07:39.Ukip. I've outgrown Ukip. There are 4 million people who voted Ukip in

:07:40. > :07:46.the general election. May consider the alternative -- they are

:07:47. > :07:49.considered the alternative to Labour. What Ukip does need to do is

:07:50. > :07:53.rebrand, find distinct policy initiatives now to separate

:07:54. > :07:56.themselves from the Conservatives. Why don't you stay to help them do

:07:57. > :08:01.that? I've outgrown the party and when I look at what Theresa May is

:08:02. > :08:03.saying and doing, they are the party of government. If I want those

:08:04. > :08:07.things to get through Parliament, to actually come into effect, I need

:08:08. > :08:11.the Conservatives to increase their majority in 2020 to help the passage

:08:12. > :08:15.of those bills. What did Nigel Farage say when you told him you

:08:16. > :08:19.were leaving? We've spoken about it a few times. I spoke to him on

:08:20. > :08:23.Wednesday. He was disappointed, understandably. He said, why don't

:08:24. > :08:27.you want to stay? Do you trust Theresa May? I gave him the reasons

:08:28. > :08:33.I've just given you and we are good friends. You are still good friends?

:08:34. > :08:38.I believe so, yeah. You've said the party is in, quote, a catastrophic

:08:39. > :08:43.mess. That is hardly a legacy that your good friend can be proud of. I

:08:44. > :08:47.don't want to point fingers at an individual. There are many

:08:48. > :08:50.contributing factors. I think Douglas knows this very well. They

:08:51. > :08:54.created a sense of animosity, this growing bitterness and jealousy. It

:08:55. > :08:59.created an environment where conspiracy theories were running

:09:00. > :09:04.amok and things were becoming from myth into legend. It got to the

:09:05. > :09:08.stage, I feel, that it is almost irreparable. The next leader has got

:09:09. > :09:14.a huge job at the hands. You think it may not have a future? That's not

:09:15. > :09:18.for me to say. In November you said Ukip was here to stay. You clearly

:09:19. > :09:25.don't think that now. I did believe that in November. I

:09:26. > :09:28.believed that, really, up until around February or March, when I saw

:09:29. > :09:33.quite how much the fallout was affecting the party, quite how deep

:09:34. > :09:37.those divisions were and I thought, I just can't see a way back now. I

:09:38. > :09:42.can't see a way for Ukip to unify and the final straw, really, was

:09:43. > :09:46.Theresa May standing up and saying, you know, putting forward policies

:09:47. > :09:51.that will appeal to a lot of Ukip voters. You describe Neil Hamilton

:09:52. > :09:55.of Ukip in Wales as, quote, a Machiavellian Rasputin character. I

:09:56. > :10:00.know, terminology am quite proud of. Why do you describe him like that? I

:10:01. > :10:05.don't want to assert that he causes this or that or is plotting this or

:10:06. > :10:11.that. I've seen e-mails and texts he's is sent. They are not positive

:10:12. > :10:13.or constructive. He also is very often opportunistically at the side

:10:14. > :10:17.of an explosion and I think there comes a time when you have to say,

:10:18. > :10:21.we need to unify, this isn't about slinging mud at each other at the

:10:22. > :10:26.press, although one could argue that is likely what I'm doing now. I

:10:27. > :10:31.think one could argue that with veracity! But I've left! Don't you

:10:32. > :10:41.late at night, on your Rome, worry that you joined the wrong club in

:10:42. > :10:46.the end? I sleep very soundly at night, particularly after June 23.

:10:47. > :10:51.You don't pay, what have I done? Alex Phillips is leaving, Stephen

:10:52. > :10:57.Stanford resigned on this programme. The head of Ukip in Wales is now an

:10:58. > :11:02.independent. Miss Phillips says that the senior figure in Wales is now a

:11:03. > :11:05.Machiavellian Rasputin character. This is a kind of Ukip version of

:11:06. > :11:10.the Bullingdon Club you joined, isn't it? I like and respect Alex

:11:11. > :11:14.far too much to argue with that. She's obviously thought long and

:11:15. > :11:19.hard about this. I think Alex is the person that any party should give an

:11:20. > :11:29.arm and a leg to have as part of the team and it makes me very sad and it

:11:30. > :11:33.is a huge loss. I still reckon that having a 1-party monopoly system in

:11:34. > :11:36.Westminster, which is, in effect, what we've got, is not going to

:11:37. > :11:41.change this country for the better. I understand that but if you listen

:11:42. > :11:46.to Alex Phillips, it wouldn't suggest that Ukip, which is in,

:11:47. > :11:51.quote, a catastrophic mess, is the antidote to Tory figure many. It's a

:11:52. > :11:53.fixable problem. If we had party strategists, election strategist,

:11:54. > :11:57.who knew how to count, that would be a good start it up if we are people

:11:58. > :12:02.with experience of winning elections helping with messaging, that would

:12:03. > :12:05.be a start, but this just shows that the next leader has an enormous task

:12:06. > :12:09.of unifying the party. There are still some very talented people

:12:10. > :12:11.there. They need to be brought together, not torn apart. Thank you

:12:12. > :12:18.for being with us. My pleasure. So, in a few minutes Nigel Farage

:12:19. > :12:21.will get to his feet to make his final

:12:22. > :12:23.speech as party leader. First, let's take a look

:12:24. > :12:25.at the highs and lows What people are saying

:12:26. > :12:27.is "Get Britain out". I'm going to have a Black Sheep,

:12:28. > :12:29.please. You have the charisma of a damp

:12:30. > :12:32.rag, and the appearance Nobody in Europe had ever

:12:33. > :12:42.heard of you. It's one of those grace of God

:12:43. > :12:52.things that he is still alive. He used to ignore immigration,

:12:53. > :12:57.now he lives on a reservation. I don't know that

:12:58. > :12:58.leaflet Nick, but... Go back to the river,

:12:59. > :13:13.because you're up one The sun has risen on an

:13:14. > :13:28.independent United Kingdom. And just look at it,

:13:29. > :13:34.even the weather's improved. I know that virtually none

:13:35. > :13:36.of you have ever done a proper You, as a political project,

:13:37. > :13:49.are in denial. Well, thank you, and good

:13:50. > :14:09.evening Mississippi! It's time for me to stand aside

:14:10. > :14:14.as leader of this party. I feel it's right that I should now

:14:15. > :14:22.stand aside, as leader of Ukip. It's only when they're empty that

:14:23. > :14:37.you do that, when it's The life and times of Nigel Farage.

:14:38. > :14:40.We are waiting for him to get up on his feet at the conference in

:14:41. > :14:45.Bournemouth where he will give his swansong and we will go there live

:14:46. > :14:49.the moment we see that is happening. There is someone else speaking at

:14:50. > :14:54.the moment. Douglas Carswell, if it hadn't been for Nigel Farage, would

:14:55. > :14:59.Ukip have ever got 4 million votes in the general election, would it

:15:00. > :15:05.have forced the Tories into a referendum? Credit where it's due.

:15:06. > :15:09.He played a huge role in the referendum, not exclusively, many

:15:10. > :15:12.people in the Conservative Party, many ministers who sacrifice their

:15:13. > :15:18.ministerial careers that made sure we had a referendum. It was fear of

:15:19. > :15:23.Nigel Farage, they feared him as a potent force. They feared he reached

:15:24. > :15:29.traditional Tory voters. If you look at the polls immediately after the

:15:30. > :15:34.Rochester and Clacton by-elections, one in five people at one time were

:15:35. > :15:40.going to vote Ukip. The fact we run a campaign over the next six months

:15:41. > :15:44.that lost us one in three-year supporters is another story. It

:15:45. > :15:49.caused David Cameron to make commitments that wouldn't have

:15:50. > :15:53.happened without Nigel and Ukip. Getting a referendum and winning

:15:54. > :15:59.it... That was what got Ukip out of bed in the morning. That's now

:16:00. > :16:04.happened. You talked earlier of a party that is free-market and

:16:05. > :16:08.libertarian. That's not what they're voting for in the north of England,

:16:09. > :16:13.the disillusioned working class. They are not voting for Fabius among

:16:14. > :16:16.government knows best either. They are voting for a government that

:16:17. > :16:19.would take notice of them. They regard the free market as something

:16:20. > :16:24.that destroyed all that old industries. With respect, one of the

:16:25. > :16:29.reasons the centre-left parties are in a crisis is precisely because the

:16:30. > :16:33.conventional, Fabian ideas don't appeal to their base any more. We

:16:34. > :16:37.knew this moment was coming. We knew this moment would come when we voted

:16:38. > :16:48.to leave the European Union, when the establishment has accepted our

:16:49. > :16:52.views on immigration. We spent the last six months working on a series

:16:53. > :16:54.of policy papers, on a series of things besides immigration. Opening

:16:55. > :16:56.up the family courts, energy market, taking on the banking cartel,

:16:57. > :17:00.quantitative easing. A whole range of things a party like Ukip needs to

:17:01. > :17:03.do to make sure we're no longer governed by this group thing, this

:17:04. > :17:08.soggy way in Westminster that is running the country into the ground.

:17:09. > :17:12.Your lowest hanging fruit is in the north of England. There is a lot of

:17:13. > :17:17.data in the the Times this morning that suggests the 20 seats where

:17:18. > :17:22.people regard themselves, in the north, regard themselves most as

:17:23. > :17:27.English, not British, are also the 20 areas where the vote to Leave was

:17:28. > :17:31.biggest of all. That is a politics of identity. They are looking for

:17:32. > :17:35.someone to represent that identity. They don't think it is Labour any

:17:36. > :17:40.more. They don't really give the Tories look in. They are not going

:17:41. > :17:45.to give Ukip a look in either. With respect, I think they could. We had

:17:46. > :17:50.a leader on the centre-right, Margaret Thatcher, who understood

:17:51. > :17:53.people who to traditionally voted Labour, if you gave them the

:17:54. > :17:58.opportunity to buy their council house, that would give them support

:17:59. > :18:01.in the ballot box. We could do that. Giving people the ability to self

:18:02. > :18:05.commission public services, allowing people to have the same choice over

:18:06. > :18:09.their child's education that they have when they decide what their

:18:10. > :18:16.child watches evening, giving people the ability to share... She lost

:18:17. > :18:21.almost every major northern city. She was also never defeated by the

:18:22. > :18:25.British people. It was under her the Conservatives increasingly became a

:18:26. > :18:30.party of the South. That trend began under her. Yes, and I'm not drawing

:18:31. > :18:37.an exact analogy. Because it doesn't work. If you are looking for a fresh

:18:38. > :18:42.approach to build a coalition, from a traditional Labour base, she shows

:18:43. > :18:49.you some ways, ideas as to how you can do that. Who do you speak for in

:18:50. > :18:54.Ukip on this? Almost no one else of the names that are left takes this

:18:55. > :18:58.line. You are a one-man band almost. Perhaps if we were talking about

:18:59. > :19:03.them a bit more we would be on 20% of the polls rather than 10%. I took

:19:04. > :19:09.a great deal about these things in Clacton. This approach manages to

:19:10. > :19:14.secure support, obviously from centre-right voters, also former

:19:15. > :19:19.Labour voters in Essex. I'm sure it could work across the country. It

:19:20. > :19:25.must be a pretty good chance you are going to fight the 2020 election as

:19:26. > :19:29.an independent? I'm planning on fighting as the Ukip candidate,

:19:30. > :19:34.whenever the election may be. Who says it's going to be in 2020? We

:19:35. > :19:43.don't know. Whenever it is. Never mind the date. It must be, given...

:19:44. > :19:50.Ukip and you are now two ships passing in the night. The outgoing

:19:51. > :19:53.leader of Ukip, rather like the outgoing leader of the Conservative

:19:54. > :19:57.Party is perhaps a little critical of me. But it is not the former

:19:58. > :20:01.leader of Ukip that really counts. It's the new leader and we are going

:20:02. > :20:04.to hear you that new leader is and I look forward to working with them.

:20:05. > :20:09.It is Diane James who is currently the favourite. Will you get on

:20:10. > :20:13.better with her that Nigel Farage? I would give her 100% support. She

:20:14. > :20:37.nearly won a by-election. She understands.

:20:38. > :20:40.She has a compelling retail proposition. Simply complaining

:20:41. > :20:42.about the state of the country is not sufficient to get you beyond the

:20:43. > :20:45.base. You need something more. ? ?CAPNEXT all to let's go to take the

:20:46. > :20:49.stage. He is being Mr Yuvraj is about to take the stage. He is being

:20:50. > :20:57.introduced outgoing party outgoing Ukip of Ukip. He Farage to come up.

:20:58. > :20:59.I Nigel Farage to come up. A rather younger they are showing a video

:21:00. > :21:05.first, a rather younger looking Nigel

:21:06. > :21:13.we are not going to show this we are not going to show this video we

:21:14. > :21:21.don't do it for we don't do it the Tories on Lib Dems. Are you

:21:22. > :21:25.convinced there will be, as the people voted for it? I think they're

:21:26. > :21:29.well. I think there will be some attempt to try and frustrate and

:21:30. > :21:33.subvert the referendum. The judiciary and House of Lords may try

:21:34. > :21:37.it, we could even see the Humphrey in Whitehall try it, but I think

:21:38. > :21:42.increasingly the momentum is such that that becomes impossible. Do you

:21:43. > :21:44.have confidence in Theresa May, as the people voted for it? I think

:21:45. > :21:47.they're well. I think there will be some attempt to try and frustrate

:21:48. > :21:49.and subvert the referendum. The judiciary and House of Lords may try

:21:50. > :21:52.it, we could even see the Humphrey in Whitehall try it, but I think

:21:53. > :21:54.increasingly the momentum is such that that becomes impossible. Do you

:21:55. > :21:57.have confidence in Theresa May that she was a reluctant, that she will

:21:58. > :22:01.change your mind, that she would change committed to free trade and

:22:02. > :22:04.getting us out of the EU. I hope that we make we have a government

:22:05. > :22:08.committed to free trade and getting us out of the EU. I hope that we

:22:09. > :22:15.make we get the trade aspect of Brexit that and free to conduct the

:22:16. > :22:18.EU and free to. That is more important than anything else. We

:22:19. > :22:24.still have access to the single market... What terms would be

:22:25. > :22:27.acceptable for access? I think a deal can and will be done and I'm

:22:28. > :22:31.very encouraged by some of the noises that are coming out, not so

:22:32. > :22:34.much from the bureaucrats in Brussels but the Government since

:22:35. > :22:36.agreements with the rest of the world. That is more important than

:22:37. > :22:39.anything else. We still have access to the single market... What terms

:22:40. > :22:42.would be acceptable for access? I think a deal can and will be done

:22:43. > :22:45.and I'm very encouraged by some of the noises that are coming out, not

:22:46. > :22:57.so much from the bureaucrats in Brussels

:22:58. > :23:04.but the market. I don't see that is a downside. The difference is we

:23:05. > :23:18.won't be a member of the single market,

:23:19. > :23:21.because if you remember, in charge of the member states. The Italians

:23:22. > :23:23.and Angela Merkel are making encouraging sounds and I am

:23:24. > :23:26.confident Theresa May will deliver. We won't have access, we will have

:23:27. > :23:28.access, but not access on the same terms and conditions as now, that

:23:29. > :23:31.cannot happen, can it? British companies won't be bound by single

:23:32. > :23:33.market rules unless they are selling to the single market. I don't see

:23:34. > :23:36.that is a downside. The difference is we won't be a member of the

:23:37. > :23:38.single market, because if you remember, the single market, subject

:23:39. > :23:41.to rulings of the European Court. The terms cannot be as good as they

:23:42. > :23:43.are at the moment? You have on your desk and iPad which was probably

:23:44. > :23:46.assembled using California design in China. None of those countries is

:23:47. > :23:49.part of the single market. We don't have a free trade agreement yet with

:23:50. > :23:51.those countries. It is possible to buy and sell stuff from countries

:23:52. > :23:54.without having trade deals. You have to make sure you get the right kind

:23:55. > :23:57.of trade deal. If it is one in China. None of those countries is

:23:58. > :24:00.part of the single market. We don't have a free trade agreement yet with

:24:01. > :24:02.those countries. It is possible to buy and sell stuff from countries

:24:03. > :24:05.without having trade deals. You have to make sure you get the right kind

:24:06. > :24:08.of trade deal. If it is TTIP, it's not worth doing. Genuinely Liam Fox

:24:09. > :24:10.is keen on that, I think we will see some spectacular gains in our

:24:11. > :24:13.ability to trade globally. OK, we can go to Bournemouth now. Nigel

:24:14. > :24:15.Farage is starting to the stage with the applause of the party

:24:16. > :24:18.conference. Always popular with the rank and file of Ukip. Coming to

:24:19. > :24:21.give his final speech, at least for now anyway. He has been in and out

:24:22. > :24:24.of the leadership trade and Liam Fox is keen on that, I think we will see

:24:25. > :24:26.some spectacular gains in our ability to trade globally. OK, we

:24:27. > :24:28.can go to Bournemouth now. Nigel Farage is starting to the stage with

:24:29. > :24:31.the applause of the party conference. Always popular with the

:24:32. > :24:34.rank and file of Ukip. Coming to give his final speech, at least for

:24:35. > :24:37.now anyway. He has been in and out of the leadership. As for now, a new

:24:38. > :24:39.leader is being elected and will be announced this Nigel Farage gets to

:24:40. > :24:42.Ukip conference to make his in Bournemouth at the Ukip conference

:24:43. > :24:44.to make his closing remarks to the and the wider public. Seems to be

:24:45. > :24:47.struggling a bit to and the wider public. Seems to be struggling a bit

:24:48. > :24:51.to, such is the crash of the media to get of may have a party with only

:24:52. > :24:54.one MP but he is a household he may have a party with only one MP but he

:24:55. > :24:57.is a household name. Up leaders who have many party leaders who have had

:24:58. > :25:00.a major influence on British politics in modern times. Let us

:25:01. > :25:02.hear from MPs and he has had a major influence on British politics in

:25:03. > :25:04.modern times. Let us hear from Nigel -- Nigel Farage as he makes his

:25:05. > :25:13.swansong to the Ukip party conference. Wow. Thank you, thank

:25:14. > :25:19.you, thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for that

:25:20. > :25:26.fantastic welcome. We did it, we got our country back! And we would not

:25:27. > :25:33.have done it without you, the People's Army of Ukip, and I'm very,

:25:34. > :25:41.very proud of every single one of you. Thank you. APPLAUSE

:25:42. > :25:50.The events of June 23 by three or 3:30am in the morning, when we

:25:51. > :25:54.realised we would win it, felt to me like a fairy tale, frankly, that had

:25:55. > :26:04.come true. Because this has been a very long journey indeed. 25 years

:26:05. > :26:09.ago I joined the antifederalists league. Not many people can say

:26:10. > :26:16.that, because there weren't many of us! Then in 1993 it became Ukip, and

:26:17. > :26:22.I said to myself, it doesn't matter that all my friends and family and

:26:23. > :26:28.business colleagues think I've gone mad, it doesn't matter to me that

:26:29. > :26:32.history says it's impossible to get a new political party off the ground

:26:33. > :26:37.in this country. To me it was very simple, all those years ago, it was

:26:38. > :26:38.a matter of principle. I believed we should govern our own country.

:26:39. > :26:52.APPLAUSE Six weeks, six weeks after the party

:26:53. > :26:55.had been formed, the Conservative member of Parliament in Eastleigh

:26:56. > :26:58.died overnight and there was a by-election.

:26:59. > :27:03.I thought, in for a penny, in for a pound, and I volunteered and was the

:27:04. > :27:10.first-ever adopted candidate of the UK Independence party. And I went

:27:11. > :27:17.out there and I campaigned and I did my best, and I can tell you, on the

:27:18. > :27:23.night of the result, by a crushing clear margin of 164 votes I beat the

:27:24. > :27:28.late great screaming Lord such and didn't come last.

:27:29. > :27:36.It was kind of difficult to get more than 1% in a by-election for us in

:27:37. > :27:42.those days. But things changed in 1999 with the advent of proportional

:27:43. > :27:46.representation for the European elections. No wonder thought we had

:27:47. > :27:51.a chance. I always did. I will never forget that night, when three of us

:27:52. > :27:55.were elected and Ukip was just beginning to get on, in real terms,

:27:56. > :27:59.the political map. I will never forget that feeling, it was an

:28:00. > :28:06.amazing feeling. I was interviewed, my first ever live interview was

:28:07. > :28:12.from iridium. Of course, I had no media training or anything like

:28:13. > :28:15.that. It was a live interview at 1:30am and Phil said to me,

:28:16. > :28:20.congratulations Nigel, you said you are going to do it and you have. But

:28:21. > :28:24.next week, he said, you will be off on Eurostar to the European

:28:25. > :28:29.Parliament and you will find it never rending round of invitations

:28:30. > :28:35.to lunches, it dinners, champagne receptions. Do you, he asked me,

:28:36. > :28:38.think you will become corrupted by the lifestyle? I replied live on

:28:39. > :28:49.air, no, I've always lived like that! APPLAUSE

:28:50. > :29:00.At least it was true! We went on for year after year,

:29:01. > :29:06.being part of Ukip, it's like a big Dipper ride, successes, dramatic

:29:07. > :29:10.failures, all the things that happen within any political party. But we

:29:11. > :29:18.first really got onto the political big-time early in 2013. Early in

:29:19. > :29:22.2013, when suddenly the British public realised that what we had to

:29:23. > :29:28.say about the taboo subject, the subject that you are not supposed to

:29:29. > :29:34.discuss in polite company. The subject that new Labour made even

:29:35. > :29:38.raising it you were committing a criminal offence. We were not

:29:39. > :29:44.frightened to talk honestly and openly about the need for sensible

:29:45. > :29:51.immigration into this country, and we talked about it. APPLAUSE

:29:52. > :29:54.And we talked about and it rapidly became the number one issue in

:29:55. > :29:57.British politics and nobody else would even touch the subject.

:29:58. > :30:01.They couldn't touch the subject because they were all committed to

:30:02. > :30:06.membership of European union, which meant the free movement of up to 500

:30:07. > :30:11.million people. The Eastleigh by-election, suddenly we got a big

:30:12. > :30:16.score. We then went into the county elections of that year and I

:30:17. > :30:22.remember, I was due in Millbank, number four Millbank, where all the

:30:23. > :30:26.broadcasters are. I was due to do an interview about Ukip overnight

:30:27. > :30:31.getting 23% of the national vote. As I got about 100 yards away from the

:30:32. > :30:36.entrance, I saw a big throng of cameramen and photographers, and I

:30:37. > :30:42.thought, crikey, something really big must have happened. LAUGHTER

:30:43. > :30:48.And I was quite oblivious to just what we'd done. We've gone on from

:30:49. > :30:56.there, we won the European elections in 2014. APPLAUSE

:30:57. > :31:05.The first party that was an Labour or Tory to win a national election

:31:06. > :31:09.since 1906. -- that was not Labour or Tory. Without us, there would

:31:10. > :31:18.have been no referendum. APPLAUSE

:31:19. > :31:30.Without you, without you and the people's army, there would have been

:31:31. > :31:38.no campaign and together we have changed the course of British

:31:39. > :31:44.history. And we've brought down a Prime Minister.

:31:45. > :31:51.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE And we've got rid of the Chancellor.

:31:52. > :31:55.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE I forget what I called him now! And

:31:56. > :32:04.we've got rid of a European Commissioner. I said four years

:32:05. > :32:09.ago... I predicted that Ukip would cause an earthquake in British

:32:10. > :32:18.politics. Well, we have. We have. APPLAUSE

:32:19. > :32:29.So the question is, what now? We have a new Prime Minister, who has

:32:30. > :32:33.said that Brexit means Brexit. A new Prime Minister who, when she

:32:34. > :32:36.started, looked to be very sure-footed on this issue. But I

:32:37. > :32:43.have a feeling that things are beginning to change. When I saw her

:32:44. > :32:47.at the G20 making her speech afterwards, she said that the

:32:48. > :32:55.British people voted in the referendum for some control of

:32:56. > :32:59.immigration from the European Union. No, Prime Minister. We voted to take

:33:00. > :33:01.back control of our borders, simple as.

:33:02. > :33:15.APPLAUSE And we have Cabinet ministers like

:33:16. > :33:19.the Home Secretary still fighting the referendum, suggesting last

:33:20. > :33:28.weekend that it might cost us 50 quid to get these are to go on a

:33:29. > :33:31.booze to Calais. -- to get a visa. Half this cabinet did not only

:33:32. > :33:34.failed to support the winning side in the referendum but it seems to me

:33:35. > :33:40.they want to do their utmost to keep us part of the single market. There

:33:41. > :33:44.is going to be a great political battle ahead and my concern would be

:33:45. > :33:51.this - with Labour in the mess that it's in, and, boy, it is in a mess,

:33:52. > :33:55.isn't it, a leadership election going on and yet there is no

:33:56. > :34:00.conversation with the half of Labour voters or ball in the Midlands or

:34:01. > :34:07.the north that voted for Brexit, but with Labour in trouble and the

:34:08. > :34:10.Conservatives perhaps heading towards 2020 in a very comfortable

:34:11. > :34:16.and easy position, the temptation on the Prime Minister will be to go for

:34:17. > :34:22.a soft Brexit, as opposed to a hard Brexit. We can be very proud of the

:34:23. > :34:27.fact that we won the war but we now must win the peace and the only

:34:28. > :34:32.mechanism to put pressure on the Government to keep the debate live

:34:33. > :34:37.and make sure that those 17.4 million people get what they voted

:34:38. > :34:38.for is for Ukip to be healthy and for Ukip to be strong.

:34:39. > :34:57.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE We will find out at 1:30pm who our

:34:58. > :35:02.new bid is and I wish them - I'm guessing it's going to be a her but

:35:03. > :35:07.we'll see - I wish them the very best of luck, and my job is not to

:35:08. > :35:11.meddle. My job is not to try and influence. My job will be, if that

:35:12. > :35:16.leader wants any help and advise them, make no mistake about it, I am

:35:17. > :35:17.still foursquare behind this party and its aims.

:35:18. > :35:32.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Steve Crowther has stood beside me

:35:33. > :35:36.for six years as chairman of the party and if you think being leader

:35:37. > :35:41.of Ukip is difficult, you want to try being chairman of Ukip! And I

:35:42. > :35:50.have to say that if, at some point in time, Ukip do get recognised for

:35:51. > :35:54.their contribution to British political life - and bearing in mind

:35:55. > :36:00.that the Liberal Democrats have over 100 life peers in the House of Lords

:36:01. > :36:06.- if anything like that was to come out of life, then I think Steve

:36:07. > :36:09.really ought to be top of our list for everything you've done for this

:36:10. > :36:17.party. APPLAUSE

:36:18. > :36:22.Steve talked about reform, he talked about change. Remember this - Ukip

:36:23. > :36:27.was a grassroots political party. Ukip didn't have, in the 1990s, any

:36:28. > :36:33.well-known national figures. It didn't even have until 1999 any

:36:34. > :36:36.elected representatives. It was a grassroots party and we chose to

:36:37. > :36:41.manage ourselves through National Executive Committee, including

:36:42. > :36:46.volunteers. And that was fine then but we've moved on, haven't we?

:36:47. > :36:49.We're now the third biggest political party in this country. We

:36:50. > :36:56.have to change our management structures and we have to charge

:36:57. > :37:00.because one of the problems of success is that it brings people

:37:01. > :37:06.into the party who, perhaps, don't do it for altruistic aims for the

:37:07. > :37:10.country or its people but perhaps are more motivated by their own

:37:11. > :37:18.professional careers in politics. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:37:19. > :37:25.So, there are things that needs to change. But in essence, in essence,

:37:26. > :37:33.I know from that referendum campaign and since that this party is united.

:37:34. > :37:38.I know this party is strong. You've only got a look at the by-elections

:37:39. > :37:41.week after week in Kent to see that since the referendum, Ukip is

:37:42. > :37:48.winning and there are millions of people out there who now identify as

:37:49. > :37:53.Ukip voters. They believe in us, they trust us, they think we're

:37:54. > :37:56.speaking up for them, and the fact that we've changed the centre of

:37:57. > :37:59.gravity in British politics, the fact that many of the things that

:38:00. > :38:03.we've campaigned on, whether it is grammar schools or foreign aid or

:38:04. > :38:08.whatever it may be, the fact the others are talking about it doesn't

:38:09. > :38:13.mean they're going to deliver it, and it is us that has to keep

:38:14. > :38:18.pushing all of those agendas. Not only are there millions of people

:38:19. > :38:22.out there that feel loyal to us but I don't think that the harvest of

:38:23. > :38:24.votes that we could potentially get from the Labour Party has really

:38:25. > :38:41.even started yet. In many ways, Jeremy Corbyn is a

:38:42. > :38:44.very decent unprincipled man -- decent and principled. But he

:38:45. > :38:47.doesn't believe in Britain. He doesn't even want to sing the

:38:48. > :38:52.national anthem. He flunked it, didn't he, when it came to the

:38:53. > :38:55.referendum? And I think we've got fantastic potential in Wales, the

:38:56. > :38:59.Midlands and the North and elsewhere, in picking up Labour

:39:00. > :39:06.votes. And believe me, if Brexit doesn't mean Brexit, then I think

:39:07. > :39:11.there will be a very large number of Conservatives who will say, "There

:39:12. > :39:15.is only one party that we can support", and I think we'll judge

:39:16. > :39:22.whether Brexit means Brexit, for me, on three very simple measures. By

:39:23. > :39:25.the time next general election comes along, will we have back our

:39:26. > :39:33.territorial fishing waters around the coast the United Kingdom?

:39:34. > :39:42.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Will we be outside of the single

:39:43. > :39:45.market, so that the 90 descent of our businesses that don't trade with

:39:46. > :39:53.Europe don't get regulated by Europe? -- 90%. And above all, the

:39:54. > :39:57.acid test of Brexit, the only time we will really know... You might

:39:58. > :40:01.have seen this before, actually! The only time we will know that Brexit

:40:02. > :40:05.means Brexit is when that has been put in the bin and we get back a

:40:06. > :40:20.British passport! CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:40:21. > :40:29.And I have a feeling they're not going to deliver all of that, and

:40:30. > :40:34.I'm certain they won't deliver it unless Ukip is strong and fighting

:40:35. > :40:40.hard in every single constituency in this country. As I say, we won the

:40:41. > :40:49.war, we must now win the peace. For my part, today closes the chapter on

:40:50. > :40:56.what has been a pretty extraordinary few years. I honestly, looking back,

:40:57. > :41:04.could never really have dreamt we would achieve what we have. I have

:41:05. > :41:17.put absolutely all of me into this. APPLAUSE

:41:18. > :41:27.I literally couldn't have worked any harder or couldn't have been more

:41:28. > :41:32.determined. In a sense, I guess it's been my life's work to try to help

:41:33. > :41:37.get this party to this point. I frankly don't think I can do any

:41:38. > :41:38.more. I think, folks, I've done my bit.

:41:39. > :41:53.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE And as I... But I'm not giving up on

:41:54. > :41:58.politics completely. As I say, I will support the new leader. I'm

:41:59. > :42:03.going to continue to lead a group in the European Parliament.

:42:04. > :42:09.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Sitting next to John Claude Juncker!

:42:10. > :42:20.And making my constructive contributions. And I intend this

:42:21. > :42:25.autumn to travel around some other European capitals to try and help

:42:26. > :42:37.independence and democracy movement in those countries, to.

:42:38. > :42:45.And who knows, I may even go back to the United States of America at some

:42:46. > :42:51.point between now... So I'm going to be engaged in political life without

:42:52. > :42:57.leading a political party and its going to leave me freer, less

:42:58. > :43:03.constrained LAUGHTER

:43:04. > :43:06.from now on, I'm really going to speak my mind.

:43:07. > :43:21.APPLAUSE I said as I toured the country on

:43:22. > :43:27.that wonderful open top bus and met thousands of you out there... I

:43:28. > :43:34.said, "I want my country back" and now, folks, I want my life back. I

:43:35. > :43:37.want to thank everybody for the massive contribution that so many

:43:38. > :43:42.thousands of you have made to help me in doing this job, to helping us

:43:43. > :43:45.change the course of British history. Thank you.

:43:46. > :44:01.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE STUDIO: Well, we think the speech

:44:02. > :44:07.has come to an. It was interesting, he didn't end on

:44:08. > :44:15.a massive prorogation, it ended in quite a distinctive way. It was a

:44:16. > :44:24.speech of Mr Farage's greatest hits. Winning the last European elections,

:44:25. > :44:28.with more MEPs by far than any other party, getting nearly 4 million

:44:29. > :44:32.votes in the general election, culminating, of course, in forcing

:44:33. > :44:38.the Tories to have the referendum and then winning that referendum for

:44:39. > :44:42.Brexit. He said Ukip still had a future and we can summarise that is

:44:43. > :44:48.keeping the Government's feet to the fire to make sure it gets a hard

:44:49. > :44:56.Brexit deal in the coming negotiations. "We've won the war, we

:44:57. > :44:59.must now win the peace," said Mr Farage, and it was interesting that

:45:00. > :45:03.he point of the party in the direction of what he called the

:45:04. > :45:07.harvest of votes from the Labour Party that was in its grasp, I think

:45:08. > :45:11.referring to the number of seats in the North of England where the

:45:12. > :45:16.current Labour leadership is not that popular and where Ukip is

:45:17. > :45:22.second in a number of these constituencies. That would seem to

:45:23. > :45:27.be Mr Farage's target. It is his advice for the future leader. He

:45:28. > :45:31.says he's still going to be around. He said to much laughter that he was

:45:32. > :45:35.for once going to speak his mind in the future, where's I think most

:45:36. > :45:39.Ukip party members will think that what they liked about Mr Farage was

:45:40. > :45:44.that he did speak his mind, often in a way that was outside the

:45:45. > :45:49.Westminster consensus and the Westminster bubble, as it is often

:45:50. > :45:54.called. So that was Nigel Farage giving his final speech as leader to

:45:55. > :45:59.the Ukip conference in Bournemouth. Quite a short speech. Other party

:46:00. > :46:04.leaders could take notes on that! Douglas Carswell, your thoughts?

:46:05. > :46:15.Credit where it's due, he pushed for a referendum. Credit where it's due.

:46:16. > :46:20.How big media you think there is for Ukip, these are his words but my

:46:21. > :46:25.words, but I think it sums up what you say, to keep the Government's

:46:26. > :46:29.fee to the fire when it comes to the Brexit negotiations? It is

:46:30. > :46:33.important, and we need to make sure, particularly in seats where Labour

:46:34. > :46:37.MPs haven't reconciled themselves to the referendum outcome, we'd need to

:46:38. > :46:41.be the force prepared to do that. There is a post-Brexit agenda for us

:46:42. > :46:45.as well and I hope our new leader will see us develop a post Brexit

:46:46. > :46:47.agenda on issues other than immigration as well.

:46:48. > :46:50.Let's get further reaction now from the Ukip MEP Tim Aker -

:46:51. > :47:05.Welcome to the programme. Now that your side has won the referendum,

:47:06. > :47:09.what is the point of Ukip? Well, to keep the Government's feet to the

:47:10. > :47:14.fire and make sure Brexit means Brexit. Only a few weeks ago Theresa

:47:15. > :47:18.May said this result means we should have only some control over

:47:19. > :47:21.immigration, when it was meant to be the Government at Westminster

:47:22. > :47:26.deciding what the policy on immigration should be. If we are in

:47:27. > :47:30.the position now where we can shape our future, post-referendum and make

:47:31. > :47:34.sure we get the Brexit deal with the people wanted, gives Ukip are very

:47:35. > :47:42.strong arm. How much video have the Government won't deliver on what's

:47:43. > :47:46.being called a hard Brexit? I'm worried that the shambles of the

:47:47. > :47:51.Labour Party will allow them to go soft on it, but I think there are

:47:52. > :47:55.some genuine Eurosceptics that have been promoted that have to deliver

:47:56. > :47:59.now. It's on their careers whether they do it or not, and their

:48:00. > :48:04.reputation, and they will be judged by it. Other than that, is that

:48:05. > :48:08.really the sole purpose of Ukip now, to try and keep the Government

:48:09. > :48:16.honest when it comes to the Brexit negotiations? That is it? Still a

:48:17. > :48:19.one note song? I think at the national level you could say that,

:48:20. > :48:25.but we are seeing, since the referendum, Ukip wins at local

:48:26. > :48:28.government level. In my constituency of Berwick we topped the poll for

:48:29. > :48:31.the third year running and are getting more people coming to us

:48:32. > :48:37.from all parties voting for us because of the help we have given

:48:38. > :48:44.them. I think if Ukip branches on council groups take that message

:48:45. > :48:47.out, we can help you and you with problems on things like housing,

:48:48. > :48:53.like the Lib Dems used to do, that Douglas does very well in his

:48:54. > :49:00.constituency constituency, then we can get more votes. Douglas Carswell

:49:01. > :49:04.wants to turn you into a free libertarian society, how do you

:49:05. > :49:08.think that will resonate in Labour constituencies in the North of

:49:09. > :49:11.England? I think when Douglas talks about direct democracy on giving

:49:12. > :49:15.people more choice over their lives, I don't think anyone could disagree

:49:16. > :49:19.with that. I think we have to make sure the Conservatives don't go down

:49:20. > :49:24.the routes they did where they tried to cut tax credits, where we're

:49:25. > :49:29.going to get a lot of people complaining over this page to state

:49:30. > :49:32.policy, which is basically a poor tax, a levy on council tenants, when

:49:33. > :49:36.you think they are the people you would want to tax the least. It is

:49:37. > :49:40.consistent with our policies to take the poorest out of income tax

:49:41. > :49:43.altogether and I look forward to discussing the way forward with

:49:44. > :49:46.Douglas and other colleagues. It doesn't sound like you are exactly

:49:47. > :49:52.singing from the same hymn sheet. And it didn't sound Mr Mr Farage

:49:53. > :49:59.cares whether Douglas Carswell stays in the party not, what is your view?

:50:00. > :50:04.Douglas is an Essex MP. I went up to campaign for him and he came down

:50:05. > :50:06.when I won my seat in a valley. It would be foolish to say there

:50:07. > :50:11.haven't been disagreements, but you don't win the next war by fighting

:50:12. > :50:14.the last one. We will get a new leader today. I want to see the

:50:15. > :50:20.party come together, re-energise for the fight ahead. Our viewers will

:50:21. > :50:25.have noticed, and I'm sure Douglas Carswell noticed as well, you didn't

:50:26. > :50:29.answer my question by saying, of course we regard Mr Carswell as an

:50:30. > :50:36.integral part of the future of Ukip and want him to stay. Why didn't you

:50:37. > :50:42.say that? I didn't say that because it's a

:50:43. > :50:46.given. He is the Ukip MP and I look forward to sitting next him in the

:50:47. > :50:52.House of Commons after the next election. Well said! Are you in

:50:53. > :50:58.danger of blowing an historic opportunity here? Nigel Farage in

:50:59. > :51:04.his speech referred to the harvest of Labour votes that was within

:51:05. > :51:08.Ukip's grasp, referring most of all, I think, to the North of England,

:51:09. > :51:14.where the greatest inroads could be made. And yet we've had your former

:51:15. > :51:19.head of media on this programme this morning saying you are in a

:51:20. > :51:25.catastrophic mess. She's defected. The former party director has

:51:26. > :51:33.defected. You have a minor civil war going on in Wales. Your inability to

:51:34. > :51:39.get your act together, you could blow it, couldn't you?

:51:40. > :51:43.All parties have this, and is very sad to see Alex go. She is very

:51:44. > :51:47.talented and I wish all the best. She is welcome back, if she wants to

:51:48. > :51:52.return at any time in the future. All parties have this. It's been

:51:53. > :51:57.very disappointing to see. On the upside, we are winning by-elections,

:51:58. > :52:02.we won one in Maidstone and won a council seat in Basildon before the

:52:03. > :52:06.referendum. There are ups as well as downs. All parties get this, it is

:52:07. > :52:09.unfortunate, but I hope this conference will bring everyone

:52:10. > :52:13.together, that we can look at the big opportunities ahead for us,

:52:14. > :52:18.unite behind a new leader and make those inroads. It is not just in

:52:19. > :52:21.Labour seats. Brexit managed to get people who haven't voted in any

:52:22. > :52:25.election before to the ballot box, they registered and voted and know

:52:26. > :52:29.where their polling station is. I'm sure we can get more MPs that the

:52:30. > :52:34.next election. Stick with us if you will. I want us to go to our

:52:35. > :52:38.reporter in Bournemouth because she has some activists who were

:52:39. > :52:39.listening to this speech. We will see what they made of and then come

:52:40. > :52:48.back to you. It was quite an emotional moment. It

:52:49. > :52:53.brought a bit of a tear to your eye, didn't it, that speech? It certainly

:52:54. > :52:58.did. Nigel will be a hard act to follow. We are sorry he's going,

:52:59. > :53:02.really. Is he really going, that is the big question, do you think he's

:53:03. > :53:08.really going? No. You are not the first person to say that to me. Why

:53:09. > :53:12.not? He has spent so much time in politics, you can't just walk away

:53:13. > :53:17.from it. He has too much charisma. It is the end of an era as far as

:53:18. > :53:20.Ukip is concerned. Are you a bit worried? We will find out this

:53:21. > :53:26.afternoon on your next leader is, well that worry you? There is nobody

:53:27. > :53:30.in Conservatives or Labour who can stand up to Nigel's share presence.

:53:31. > :53:34.Whoever the new leader is doesn't have a chance. All we can do is

:53:35. > :53:40.support whoever it is an move on from here. I will leave you to it

:53:41. > :53:43.and work my way through the crowd. We have Bill Etheridge, one of the

:53:44. > :53:49.candidates for leadership. What did you make of the speech? Typical

:53:50. > :53:53.Nigel, great. Lots of laughs and passion and a tear in the eye at the

:53:54. > :53:59.end. His voice broke a bit at the end? He has been a great leader for

:54:00. > :54:04.us and achieved wonderful things. We find out in an hour or so who the

:54:05. > :54:08.next leader is, it could be you. How would you come out after a speech by

:54:09. > :54:12.that? It's like being the best man after a good father of the bride

:54:13. > :54:16.speech? You can never compete with Nigel, it's impossible. All I intend

:54:17. > :54:22.to do is thank everyone and outline the positive future and policies.

:54:23. > :54:26.New policies, economics. We for one battle and won it, let's move onto

:54:27. > :54:32.the next. We are a proper political blood, not just about the EU. We

:54:33. > :54:35.will see. -- proper political party. Over here we have some more people

:54:36. > :54:39.who want to tell me what they thought of Nigel Farage's speech.

:54:40. > :54:43.His speech was fantastic but in my opinion I don't think you should be

:54:44. > :54:47.leaving, I think you should still be on stage and forcing the issue. We

:54:48. > :54:51.only halfway there. Lots of people have been telling me that over the

:54:52. > :54:57.course of the conference, even this morning. Is he going? At the moment

:54:58. > :55:02.we are under the impression the years. But let's hope he isn't! He

:55:03. > :55:09.has done it before. Let's hope he does it again because we need him.

:55:10. > :55:13.The words that Brexit means Brexit by Theresa May are being watered

:55:14. > :55:17.down day by day and the fight is not over. We won the battle but haven't

:55:18. > :55:21.got the piece. It is a bit like Libya and Iraq. You can't just go in

:55:22. > :55:24.there and win the war, you have to make sure you have a plan B

:55:25. > :55:30.afterwards. I think we have a long way to go to get the Brexit 17

:55:31. > :55:34.million people voted for. There wasn't a plan B in Iraq. The view of

:55:35. > :55:39.some of the activists and delegates, they don't think Nigel Farage is

:55:40. > :55:43.necessarily going anywhere, at least not without making a comeback at

:55:44. > :55:46.some stage. STUDIO: On the assumption he is going, in an hour

:55:47. > :55:51.we will know who the new leader will be, who is it going to be? I think

:55:52. > :55:55.the smart money would be an Diane James. The best-known name here

:55:56. > :56:01.within Ukip, the best-known person who would be ready to take on. Even

:56:02. > :56:06.talking to tell Etheridge, I think essentially that's what even some of

:56:07. > :56:10.the candidates here think. There is a suggestion Lisa Duffy, another of

:56:11. > :56:16.the candidates, she might make it a bit tough for Diane James. She is

:56:17. > :56:22.the candidate that the likes Suzanne Evans was backing, on a slightly

:56:23. > :56:27.different camp to Nigel Farage. The camp, essentially, that's not the

:56:28. > :56:31.Nigel Farage royalists. A suggestion she may have done well enough. Not

:56:32. > :56:35.sure, to be honest. Diane James didn't go to any of the hustings.

:56:36. > :56:38.There is a sense among the delegates she could have made a bit more than

:56:39. > :56:43.ever but she ran her own campaign and did travel the country and do

:56:44. > :56:48.her own speeches and campaigning. As I say, we've talked a lot about the

:56:49. > :56:52.divisions within his party. Those are essentially the two front

:56:53. > :57:00.runners but I think it will be Diane James. Thank you. The Ukip faithful

:57:01. > :57:05.in Bournemouth. Let me check we still have Tim Aker, yes, we do. You

:57:06. > :57:10.are a supporter of Diane James. The favourite to win. But if some of the

:57:11. > :57:16.lowest potential hanging fruit for you are among working-class

:57:17. > :57:21.disillusioned Labour voters in the north, is Diane James not a little

:57:22. > :57:28.bit to Home Counties to appeal to the North, to southern? Well... We

:57:29. > :57:34.have a former city trader who is popular in the north as he is in the

:57:35. > :57:37.south that just left as the leader. When people see Diane James they get

:57:38. > :57:42.to know her and know her agenda, anywhere is open to Ukip now. We

:57:43. > :57:48.couldn't see her. A great team of candidates. We didn't get to see her

:57:49. > :57:52.because my understanding is she didn't do hustings or television

:57:53. > :57:58.appearances in this leadership campaign, why is that? She came to

:57:59. > :58:03.Thurrock and spoke to about 80 members, which is more than some of

:58:04. > :58:10.the hustings where getting. She didn't do the dates... I don't

:58:11. > :58:14.believe so. Why? -- debates. I personally think if I had been in

:58:15. > :58:20.her position I would have gone to some of them. But voting is closed,

:58:21. > :58:22.people have made up her mind and if people didn't want to vote for a

:58:23. > :58:26.because she didn't turn up, they won't have voted for her. We will

:58:27. > :58:31.know how that goes with the result in half an hour's time. One of the

:58:32. > :58:36.benefits of a leadership campaign is those who are not widely known in

:58:37. > :58:40.the country become more widely known, because there are lots of

:58:41. > :58:51.debates, TV cameras are fair, the radio is there, you get big

:58:52. > :58:54.audiences. Most people in Britain hadn't heard of Owen Smith until the

:58:55. > :58:56.Labour leadership contest, a lot more people know him now. The same

:58:57. > :58:59.could have been said for Diane James. Not nearly as well-known as

:59:00. > :59:02.Nigel Farage but she chose, for the wider public, to remain invisible

:59:03. > :59:10.during the campaign. It seems a strange strategy for someone who

:59:11. > :59:14.wants to put Ukip further the map. She was meeting members, holding

:59:15. > :59:18.events where members were free to go to and talking to the electorate,

:59:19. > :59:22.which were Ukip members. If she does win, you will be seeing a lot more

:59:23. > :59:26.of her. When the public know her, get to see her platform and

:59:27. > :59:33.priorities, I think they will seek Ukip will go from a 13% party to 23%

:59:34. > :59:38.party, especially if Theresa May doesn't give us the Brexit 17.4

:59:39. > :59:42.million people voted for. Tim Aker in Bournemouth, thank you for

:59:43. > :59:47.joining us. Douglas Carswell, we learn that Ukip's largest donor is

:59:48. > :59:56.setting up a new campaign group. Describing it as a right-wing

:59:57. > :00:00.momentum, describing the grass roots movement of the Labour left, is a

:00:01. > :00:05.good thing? I'm not sure momentum is the model to follow. They have

:00:06. > :00:09.created a situation where some very shrill and certain people in social

:00:10. > :00:13.media to assert things that take the party, in the case of the Labour

:00:14. > :00:18.Party, in a direction which makes it less appealing to swing voters. But

:00:19. > :00:22.if a private individual member of the party wants to set up an

:00:23. > :00:23.initiative, great, but ultimately if you are part of the party you have

:00:24. > :00:32.to support the party. If he's talking about a right wing

:00:33. > :00:39.Momentum, I would suggest encapsulated in that... It is a

:00:40. > :00:42.shorthand, I understand... It certainly, I would suggest, doesn't

:00:43. > :00:47.imply support for the direction that you would like to take Ukip. I'm in

:00:48. > :00:52.favour of the direction of winning over voters and having won voters in

:00:53. > :00:56.the past two Parliamentary elections as the Ukip candidate, I would

:00:57. > :01:01.suggest that, actually, shrill certainty is not the way forward. If

:01:02. > :01:04.you look at what the Labour Momentum movement is doing, it is making the

:01:05. > :01:10.Labour Party less appealing and less able to win seats. If we were to

:01:11. > :01:13.imitate that, we would be imitating all that is bad about the left. We

:01:14. > :01:19.should be offering something very, very different and that is offering

:01:20. > :01:24.people the alternative to the shrill certainty is that party activists

:01:25. > :01:29.sometimes espouse. Nathan Gill, who was, I think, your leader in Wales,

:01:30. > :01:33.though things change so much with Ukip it is hard to Kubot, who I

:01:34. > :01:38.think is now an independent in the Welsh Assembly, he said there needs

:01:39. > :01:43.to be, quote, a bloodbath in Ukip after this leadership election, that

:01:44. > :01:48.there are who have senior positions who are, quote, not fit to run a

:01:49. > :01:52.village fete. I'm not sure it is helpful to talk about a bloodbath.

:01:53. > :01:56.We certainly need reform, we need to change. It would be helped lift we

:01:57. > :02:00.had party strategists who knew how to count, it would be helpful if we

:02:01. > :02:05.have systems in place... Who has not been able to count? Look at our

:02:06. > :02:09.success in the last general election. Our strategy was not

:02:10. > :02:12.entirely successful. It is helpful, I think, if you have a party where

:02:13. > :02:17.the structures on the discipline in the organisation are bigger than any

:02:18. > :02:21.one person. That allows you to have rigour and consistency. Many

:02:22. > :02:26.occasions during the EU referendum, the by-elections, the General

:02:27. > :02:30.Election, I was struck by the central importance of data. Politics

:02:31. > :02:33.isn't about just winging it, about deciding what appeals to you, it is

:02:34. > :02:38.about looking at hard data and looking at the maths and seeing

:02:39. > :02:42.where it is you need to put your message and your resources, and

:02:43. > :02:47.that's something that many of the big parties are very bad at doing.

:02:48. > :02:51.That's what they are doing in America at the moment. They are very

:02:52. > :02:54.professional at that. I'd like to think we did a bit of that in

:02:55. > :02:57.Clacton and I like to think that you can do this and it is a much more

:02:58. > :03:02.effective way of winning votes than just making noise on Facebook. Do

:03:03. > :03:07.you think, if it is Diane James, will you get on better with her than

:03:08. > :03:11.Nigel Farage? Very much so. She came to campaign in the election. The

:03:12. > :03:15.thing I have in common with is, both of us have stood in by-elections, I

:03:16. > :03:17.won, she lost, but we understand what needs to be done. Thanks for

:03:18. > :03:19.with us. And there's full coverage

:03:20. > :03:21.of today's Ukip conference, including the result

:03:22. > :03:22.of their leadership election at 1.30 this afternoon,

:03:23. > :03:24.on BBC Parliament. Coming up in a moment,

:03:25. > :03:28.it's our regular look at what's been For now, it's time to say goodbye

:03:29. > :03:34.to Douglas Carswell. So, for the next half an hour we're

:03:35. > :03:38.going to be focussing on Europe. We'll be discussing the EU's

:03:39. > :03:40.position on Brexit negotiations, proposals for EU armed forces

:03:41. > :03:43.and whether the Commission's plan for free Wi-Fi can help

:03:44. > :03:49.re-invigorate the European Union. First, though, here's our guide

:03:50. > :03:51.to the latest from Europe We learned that the EU's auditors

:03:52. > :04:03.opposed Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU in 2006, over concerns

:04:04. > :04:13.they couldn't spend funds properly. The two countries joined

:04:14. > :04:15.anyway in 2007. It's Budapest versus

:04:16. > :04:17.the Grand Duchy, as the Foreign Minister of Luxembourg suggested

:04:18. > :04:19.Hungary should be suspended, maybe even thrown out

:04:20. > :04:23.of the union, for failing European Commission President

:04:24. > :04:29.Jean-Claude Juncker used his State of the Union Address to warn that

:04:30. > :04:34.Brexit presented an existential crisis to the EU, but he had big

:04:35. > :04:45.ideas too, like free EU wide file -- Wi-Fi for every city

:04:46. > :04:47.and village by 2020. And goodbye Frontex,

:04:48. > :04:49.hello European Border Member states have approved

:04:50. > :04:53.the creation of a new 1500 strong force, which will take

:04:54. > :05:01.to the seas in October. And with us for the next 30

:05:02. > :05:04.minutes, I've been joined by the Conservative MEP

:05:05. > :05:06.Jacqueline Foster and Let's take a look at one of those

:05:07. > :05:13.stories in more detail - that's plans by the European

:05:14. > :05:19.Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker for free

:05:20. > :05:33.Wi-Fi in every village, Is it too cynical just to look at

:05:34. > :05:37.that as a gimmick? Not at all because I think it was a gimmick. We

:05:38. > :05:42.have somebody who is in charge of the European Commission standing up

:05:43. > :05:46.doing a state of the union address. We have challenges on immigration,

:05:47. > :05:53.we have member states with problems, banking problems, in Italy,

:05:54. > :05:57.unemployment. A key player has left the European Union, ie we are

:05:58. > :06:02.leaving, the UK, and then partway through the speech he starts talking

:06:03. > :06:06.about Wi-Fi and, ultimately, it's all about more Europe and I just

:06:07. > :06:13.found it absolutely astonishing, so it's not at all cynical. What powers

:06:14. > :06:19.does the European Commission have to deliver free Wi-Fi to every village

:06:20. > :06:26.in Europe? They don't have the power. Very few, if any. It would be

:06:27. > :06:30.nice if we could have it! It would be nice. I don't think we're going

:06:31. > :06:37.to get free Wi-Fi in every public park in 20 countries for 120 million

:06:38. > :06:40.euros. 27 countries now! Or even five countries, to be honest, for

:06:41. > :06:46.that kind of money. Clearly, it was a bit of a gimmick, although, to be

:06:47. > :06:52.fair, the speech is kind of the equivalent of a party conference

:06:53. > :06:56.speech... So not serious? It's a bit of a laundry list, it's got to have

:06:57. > :07:01.something for everybody. He did talk about serious themes and he also

:07:02. > :07:08.threw in a gimmick. But I've got to say, coming hard on the heels of the

:07:09. > :07:12.more serious and equally unedifying climb-down on roaming charges from

:07:13. > :07:18.last week, it seemed like an odd place for them to go. Well that

:07:19. > :07:22.seems... One of the things we heard during the referendum, one of the

:07:23. > :07:27.benefits of the EU, would be the roaming charges, which used to be

:07:28. > :07:33.huge. But I saw earlier this week that apparently Mr Juncker, because

:07:34. > :07:37.he hadn't been properly consulted other papers have come to him

:07:38. > :07:43.properly, that these plans to improve the roaming charges have

:07:44. > :07:50.been sidelined. Is that right? Possibly. I rest my case. I've been

:07:51. > :07:53.there for an awfully long time, since 1999 and, fine, so a committee

:07:54. > :07:59.looked at roaming charges and how expensive they were. Then there was

:08:00. > :08:03.the consideration if it was OK for us if we were travelling that our

:08:04. > :08:06.mobiles were a bit cheaper, but were the citizens of the United Kingdom

:08:07. > :08:12.then paying for that, because their costs might go up? So, really, if I

:08:13. > :08:19.may just bring this back, whether it was roaming charges or Wi-Fi, this

:08:20. > :08:23.was a state of the union speech, with huge issues, huge pressures on

:08:24. > :08:30.security, defence, immigration, and he's talking about this. It was

:08:31. > :08:34.absolutely ludicrous and if we had the President of the United States

:08:35. > :08:37.doing a state of the union, or a British Prime Minister doing the

:08:38. > :08:41.state of the United Kingdom or another leader in another country, I

:08:42. > :08:46.doubt whether any of them would be talking about Wi-Fi. I rest my case

:08:47. > :08:51.on that one. To be fair, though, I remember one of, or probably more

:08:52. > :08:54.than one of Tony Blair's at the conference speeches where he

:08:55. > :09:00.couldn't do any wrong was the most popular man of the country and every

:09:01. > :09:03.speech he gave was at Epoque making triumph and they were always

:09:04. > :09:06.littered with a complete of every school and an information

:09:07. > :09:10.superhighway, broadband infrastructure. But that was a party

:09:11. > :09:16.conference. Was completely different. I think they are quite

:09:17. > :09:20.similar. We shall see. I guess neither of you are going to take on

:09:21. > :09:24.a bet of 100 quid that we won't have free Wi-Fi in 2020.

:09:25. > :09:26.So, the leaders of EU member states are meeting

:09:27. > :09:29.All the leaders, that is, except Theresa May.

:09:30. > :09:33.It's the first summit to exclude the UK since June's referendum

:09:34. > :09:36.and will see the ongoing EU members begin to consider what the Union

:09:37. > :09:47.will look like after the United Kingdom leaves.

:09:48. > :09:49.Clearly there's much to get through before that

:09:50. > :09:54.happens, so what do we know about the EU's negotiating position?

:09:55. > :09:56.Well, the European Commission has appointed former French

:09:57. > :10:01.commissioner Michel Barnier as its chief negotiator.

:10:02. > :10:03.The European Parliament has its own negotiator, too -

:10:04. > :10:08.former Belgian PM and EU federalist Guy Verhofstadt.

:10:09. > :10:10.EU commission president Jean-Claude Juncker

:10:11. > :10:18.told MEPs on Wednesday that the UK cannot be part of the single market

:10:19. > :10:21.He also said that he wanted Brexit talks to start

:10:22. > :10:28.But former EU Council President Herman Van Rompuy told the BBC that

:10:29. > :10:29.substantive negotiations are unlikely to start

:10:30. > :10:40.until after the German elections next year.

:10:41. > :10:43.They are not until September next year.

:10:44. > :10:45.Let's talk to our Europe correspondent Damian Grammaticus,

:10:46. > :10:47.who is at that meeting in Bratislava.

:10:48. > :10:55.The purpose of this meeting originally was to begin to sketch

:10:56. > :11:01.out what the EU 27's negotiation position would be but I get the

:11:02. > :11:05.impression there are so many other problems crowding in on the EU at

:11:06. > :11:12.the moment that that is not the only subject being discussed there.

:11:13. > :11:17.You're right, it is not really the subject being discussed at all. They

:11:18. > :11:22.are going to discuss the political fallout, if you like, from the

:11:23. > :11:28.Brexit wrote but what they'd always said, actually, was that this summit

:11:29. > :11:32.was going to be about... Not about Brexit itself but about charting a

:11:33. > :11:39.way forward for the EU after Brexit, so this was very clearly meant to be

:11:40. > :11:43.meant as a signal that 27 nations without the UK here, without a

:11:44. > :11:46.British Prime Minister, are meeting around the table, setting the agenda

:11:47. > :11:52.for the future, and that's going to be broad brush strokes but very

:11:53. > :11:58.clearly what they want to do is to try to address the underlying issues

:11:59. > :12:01.that led to Brexit, so in the broadest possible level, what they

:12:02. > :12:05.mean by that is that they see a threat from this rising tide of euro

:12:06. > :12:11.scepticism and they want to reinvigorate the EU, try to

:12:12. > :12:16.reconnect with European people. At around that table now of 27, with

:12:17. > :12:20.Britain not being there, it would be fair to say that there are deep

:12:21. > :12:24.divisions among the 27. There is a group of East Europeans who take a

:12:25. > :12:29.very different view from what you might call the club Med group which,

:12:30. > :12:33.in turn, is very different from the Nordic and Northern group, which

:12:34. > :12:37.sometimes can include France or France may sometimes be in the Club

:12:38. > :12:42.Med group, even to such a stage that we've just had this week the

:12:43. > :12:46.Luxembourg Foreign Minister call for the expulsion of Hungary. So even

:12:47. > :12:52.without us, they're not that united, are they? No, and the leaders

:12:53. > :12:56.themselves know this. They themselves have all been morphing

:12:57. > :13:00.into their castle saying that what they have to do is show a message of

:13:01. > :13:03.unity to try to find the areas they agree on and interesting you

:13:04. > :13:07.mentioned Oxenberg - the Luxembourg Prime Minister walking in today

:13:08. > :13:13.said, we need to remember that we agree on 90% of things and there is

:13:14. > :13:17.10% are things we don't agree. He was dismissing the idea that there

:13:18. > :13:21.is this crisis in the EU. He was saying, keep an eye on the bigger

:13:22. > :13:26.picture, on the fact that in many areas the EU delivers for people but

:13:27. > :13:32.in the areas that matter in some ways at the minute, whether crises

:13:33. > :13:36.are focused, migration and border security, economic issues, growth

:13:37. > :13:40.and jobs, there are very different views, as you say, between the more

:13:41. > :13:44.austerity minded North and the southern European countries and also

:13:45. > :13:50.between the East, who want more controls on migration and are not

:13:51. > :13:53.willing to take refugee quotas and the bigger countries in the west

:13:54. > :13:59.that want them. All sorts of divisions. I must say the castle

:14:00. > :14:01.looks brilliant behind you! We'll let you get on and find out what's

:14:02. > :14:05.happening in the rooms there. We're joined now by the Ukip

:14:06. > :14:17.MEP William Dartmouth. He is part of our discussion. There

:14:18. > :14:22.he is. Good day! It looks like a lovely day down in Bournemouth.

:14:23. > :14:26.Stick with us. It is a beautiful day. You ought to be here! They

:14:27. > :14:32.don't let me out very often these days, I'm afraid! Let me ask you, is

:14:33. > :14:36.it not, Sion Simon, going to take a long time? The British Government is

:14:37. > :14:40.just at the foothills of what its negotiating position will be. We

:14:41. > :14:44.still have no idea. And the Europeans may actually be further

:14:45. > :14:49.behind, that they have no idea what their negotiating position will be.

:14:50. > :14:53.I've never come across anything in my... I'm 47 and I've never seen

:14:54. > :14:59.anything in which everybody has got so little idea, still, on getting on

:15:00. > :15:02.for three months of the referendum. I don't think the British Government

:15:03. > :15:06.has got the slightest idea what it's doing, neither the Prime Minister

:15:07. > :15:09.nor any of the secretaries of State has said anything coherent about

:15:10. > :15:13.Brexit at all and I don't think it's any different at all in the

:15:14. > :15:17.commission or the other member states. Everyone I talk to, it is

:15:18. > :15:20.complete chaos and blackness and confusion. It has really see maybe

:15:21. > :15:23.wonder what it used to be like in the war and I've concluded that

:15:24. > :15:27.there was probably a much greater sense of purpose and understanding

:15:28. > :15:33.what we were doing actually in wartime than this Brexit.

:15:34. > :15:40.William Dartmouth, are you concerned about the lack of clarity? How long

:15:41. > :15:45.can this continue? The principal reason there is a lack of clarity is

:15:46. > :15:51.Cameron was born government irresponsibly made no preparations

:15:52. > :15:56.at all. -- Osborne but hopefully one day I get some coverage on the BBC

:15:57. > :16:01.for what I've written. What is necessary if there should be a

:16:02. > :16:08.supremacy of English law, controlling our borders and a return

:16:09. > :16:11.of fishing and no contributions to the European Union budget. As an

:16:12. > :16:17.absolute minimum. Otherwise it isn't a proper Brexit at all, which people

:16:18. > :16:24.voted for. Is that English law going to be supreme in Scotland as well? I

:16:25. > :16:28.think we can have an interesting discussion about the difference

:16:29. > :16:35.between Scots and English law. I think the Scots would want their law

:16:36. > :16:40.to prevail over European law. You may have to go back and rewrite that

:16:41. > :16:46.bit of your paper, before we talk about it any further, to get it

:16:47. > :16:50.right. At the moment we seem to be in a situation where, particularly

:16:51. > :16:53.on the European side, there is a kind of sticking out... Not a

:16:54. > :17:02.bargaining position, but a bargaining attitude. Michel Barnier,

:17:03. > :17:08.a well-known anti-Brit is appointed. Guy Verhofstadt, who loves to tangle

:17:09. > :17:11.with the Brits as well, and Mr Jean-Claude Younger. Eyes and

:17:12. > :17:16.suggest all of this is pretty meaningless because it is the

:17:17. > :17:22.Council of ministers tasked with the negotiations, and above all that

:17:23. > :17:27.means Mr Tusk and Angela Merkel. I think that is a fair point to make.

:17:28. > :17:35.I think what is particularly ridiculous about all of this is the

:17:36. > :17:39.voters have spoken. Whether other member states, countries, like it or

:17:40. > :17:44.not, that was the decision taken by the UK. I do not believe it's in the

:17:45. > :17:48.interests of the other member states to end up having a virtual civil war

:17:49. > :17:54.with the UK, determining what the outcomes should be from the

:17:55. > :17:58.negotiation. I feel slightly reassured in terms of Donald Tusk

:17:59. > :18:01.and their meeting today. I think genuinely the other member states,

:18:02. > :18:05.albeit with different pressures, want to try and get some decent

:18:06. > :18:12.conclusions. But when you look at the message, and if we put

:18:13. > :18:16.Jean-Claude Juncker one side. As you said, Michel Barnier to be the

:18:17. > :18:27.negotiator from the commission's side. And Guy Verhofstadt, who can't

:18:28. > :18:30.stand us, who can't stand us even lessons are conservative political

:18:31. > :18:37.group that wiped out in the last European election. Guy Verhofstadt,

:18:38. > :18:41.it's like putting an arsonist in charge of a firework factory. If we

:18:42. > :18:44.want to be grown up on this we need a good, sensible, well constructive

:18:45. > :18:49.debate from all parties. There is a lot riding on this from our partners

:18:50. > :18:53.as well. Let me go back to William Dartmouth in Bournemouth. Is there

:18:54. > :18:58.not a danger, from your point of view, at the moment there is clearly

:18:59. > :19:02.a vacuum, a vacuum on the British side and the European side as well.

:19:03. > :19:08.Let's stick to the British side. The longer you allow a vacuum to

:19:09. > :19:12.persist, isn't there a danger that forces start to fill it over which

:19:13. > :19:16.you have no control and the Government has no control, and that

:19:17. > :19:20.people begin to get disillusioned and wonder, is it going to happen or

:19:21. > :19:27.isn't it going to happen? How long can we go on like this? That is

:19:28. > :19:35.actually a very perceptive question. First of all, the appointment of

:19:36. > :19:40.Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstadt is an attempt to fill in that vacuum

:19:41. > :19:44.and not very helpful at all. It is posturing for position that doesn't

:19:45. > :19:48.belong in a serious way. The fact of the matter is that because no

:19:49. > :19:53.preparations were made, it is in one sense reasonable that a little bit

:19:54. > :19:57.of time is taken. But it shouldn't really be so very much longer. I

:19:58. > :20:04.must make the point that we should commit to the UK leaving the single

:20:05. > :20:08.market, because as long as we stay in the single market, the 85% or

:20:09. > :20:15.more of the British economy, which doesn't export to the EU countries,

:20:16. > :20:23.is nonetheless bound by the whole panoply of EU regulation. We will

:20:24. > :20:28.leave it there. I think that is very important it is clearly understood.

:20:29. > :20:33.You have made it clear. No doubt that will be part of the debate if

:20:34. > :20:36.and when the Government finally tells us what its bargaining

:20:37. > :20:42.position is going to be as talks get underway. William Dartmouth in

:20:43. > :20:44.Bournemouth, thank you. It's got its own court,

:20:45. > :20:46.civil service and parliament - With the UK's imminent departure,

:20:47. > :20:51.there's a renewed push for further integration amongst

:20:52. > :20:52.the remaining members - including proposals

:20:53. > :20:54.for EU armed forces. The prospect of an EU

:20:55. > :21:00.army was a hot topic You are being asked to make

:21:01. > :21:06.a decision that is irreversible. We wake up on Friday,

:21:07. > :21:08.we don't like it and we're They lied about the European army,

:21:09. > :21:13.because we've got a veto over that. Our European partners were not

:21:14. > :21:15.going to change course. They're not changing

:21:16. > :21:17.course on anything. They're still progressing

:21:18. > :21:20.with the European army plans. Everything suggests ever closer

:21:21. > :21:23.union is still on the cards. The UK always stood in the way

:21:24. > :21:28.of greater military cooperation within the EU but June's referendum

:21:29. > :21:32.result has removed a major obstacle, clearing the way for European

:21:33. > :21:34.leaders keen on more military integration to pursue

:21:35. > :21:41.their ambitions. TRANSLATION: We should work

:21:42. > :21:46.towards a common military force and this should be

:21:47. > :21:51.in complement with Nato. Forces from separate member states

:21:52. > :21:55.are already working together. Operation Sophia tackling people

:21:56. > :21:56.smuggling in the Mediterranean Those backing more integration argue

:21:57. > :22:03.it would be more effective against threats both

:22:04. > :22:07.within and beyond EU borders. I think the first challenge we face

:22:08. > :22:11.is terrorism but it's also crises, and very deep crises,

:22:12. > :22:15.in the Middle East, near East, These are challenges that we can

:22:16. > :22:22.tackle as Europeans And could closer coordination lead

:22:23. > :22:30.to an EU army? I really think that national armies

:22:31. > :22:34.are not from this time any more. I don't think Germany

:22:35. > :22:36.will invade Belgium, so my opinion is that

:22:37. > :22:40.really in the long term, it should be a European defence,

:22:41. > :22:43.a European army, with one headquarters, one military command

:22:44. > :22:48.and one political control. Now Britain with its veto is out

:22:49. > :22:51.of the way, other countries who are opposed to closer military

:22:52. > :22:54.integration, including historically neutral Sweden

:22:55. > :22:59.and Ireland, are concerned. The European Union is

:23:00. > :23:02.a series of member states who cooperate with each other

:23:03. > :23:06.on various different areas. We're not all the same,

:23:07. > :23:11.we're not homogenous. We have different histories,

:23:12. > :23:14.and therefore having the single foreign policy,

:23:15. > :23:16.single defence policy, it doesn't make sense and in fact,

:23:17. > :23:18.actually puts citizens Ireland's history is

:23:19. > :23:23.as a neutral country. Friday's summit in Bratislava

:23:24. > :23:26.is likely to address faster deployment of forces overseas,

:23:27. > :23:30.coordinating strategic assets such as planes and helicopters,

:23:31. > :23:32.and sharing data from But getting more information

:23:33. > :23:35.from senior European politicians I just want to know,

:23:36. > :23:45.following the Brexit vote, We're working on the European

:23:46. > :23:51.defence together. And the idea of fighting under

:23:52. > :23:54.the EU flag, rather than separate Our armies are already

:23:55. > :24:01.coordinating in the fields, in the battlefield, and,

:24:02. > :24:04.you know, we're talking about dying for Europe,

:24:05. > :24:07.fighting for Europe, but what were we fighting

:24:08. > :24:10.for when we were fighting It was not under the European flag,

:24:11. > :24:16.it was under the Nato flag. The people who are in the military,

:24:17. > :24:18.they know what they Military cooperation could just

:24:19. > :24:26.be the start. Now that the UK with its many fears

:24:27. > :24:30.and objections is leaving, the EU may look for ever closer

:24:31. > :24:43.union in other areas, too. Emily reporting bringing you the

:24:44. > :24:50.news in that report that Germany is not going to invade Belgium. They

:24:51. > :24:54.can rest easy in Brussels after that scoop. When interviewers like myself

:24:55. > :25:01.raise the prospect of a European army, more integration during the

:25:02. > :25:06.referendum, we were assured it was a pipe dream, it was Brexit

:25:07. > :25:11.propaganda, it was never going to happen. Well, there are moves

:25:12. > :25:16.towards it. I never thought it wouldn't necessarily happen. I think

:25:17. > :25:24.they've moved very quickly. Again, it sounds like another gimmick. It's

:25:25. > :25:29.a headline grabber and the only thing it would do is undermine Nato.

:25:30. > :25:33.I think that the European Union have had defence on the cheap for

:25:34. > :25:37.decades. From the Americans. Absolutely. Everything the Americans

:25:38. > :25:41.do is wrong, but by the same token they were quite happy for the

:25:42. > :25:46.Americans to assist. There are many member states who have contributed

:25:47. > :25:51.financially, I think, very little to any budget, and so the fact they

:25:52. > :25:55.want their own military headquarters, which would undermine

:25:56. > :25:59.Nato, when we already have great cooperation, I think again is just

:26:00. > :26:03.another story. The Americans are putting Europe under great pressure

:26:04. > :26:07.to contribute more. America contributes 70% of Nato's

:26:08. > :26:11.capabilities, higher than in the Cold War, even though the threats

:26:12. > :26:16.are not the same. I don't understand how Europe could ever do that and

:26:17. > :26:21.afford to build a separate command structure and common defence force?

:26:22. > :26:25.I don't understand it either. I think the discussion that the

:26:26. > :26:29.Americans want is a reasonable one and it should be about European

:26:30. > :26:33.countries, member states of the EU and non-member states, European

:26:34. > :26:37.countries paying an equal share intimate are making a fairer

:26:38. > :26:43.contribution to Nato. But I think that is less likely post Brexit.

:26:44. > :26:48.Take us out and it's more likely it will happen. Surely if there was a

:26:49. > :26:51.European force it wouldn't be a European force but a French force?

:26:52. > :26:56.Without Britain the only real military that matters in Europe is

:26:57. > :26:59.the French? They would dominate the German forces. Half of them don't

:27:00. > :27:05.work, don't spend money on defence. The French, other than ourselves,

:27:06. > :27:09.are the only European country with formidable defence capabilities?

:27:10. > :27:14.Absolutely, and France had nothing to do with Nato for years. They've

:27:15. > :27:18.only recently come back in. I think with the French... I think they are

:27:19. > :27:24.quite nervous about all of this. French? Absolutely. They will be

:27:25. > :27:28.dumped with a lot of this. Unless this exit strategy is done in such a

:27:29. > :27:36.grown-up way, where Britain will still play a key part in the

:27:37. > :27:43.security of Europe. I think they could have a headquarters in

:27:44. > :27:46.uniforms but without having a significant army. It is on the

:27:47. > :27:57.agenda. That is all for now, goodbye.

:27:58. > :28:08.SOUNDS TO THE TUNE OF: In The Hall Of The Mountain King by Grieg

:28:09. > :28:12.We follow five amateur orchestras from all across the country,