20/09/2016: Liberal Democrats Conference

:00:37. > :00:40.Afternoon folks and welcome to this Daily Politics Conference Special.

:00:41. > :00:44.In 45 minutes, Tim Farron will deliver his big conference speech.

:00:45. > :00:47.He'll hope to raise Lib Dem morale at the end of their long

:00:48. > :00:53.We'll bring you that live and uninterrupted.

:00:54. > :00:56.While Tim Farron's on his feet in Brighton, Theresa May will be

:00:57. > :01:03.How will her message of an outward-looking post-Brexit

:01:04. > :01:09.And should the Lib Dems do electoral pacts with other like-minded

:01:10. > :01:15.We asked conference-goers to play ball.

:01:16. > :01:31.Yes, it's a Daily Politics special to bring you live coverage

:01:32. > :01:34.of the conference speech of the Liberal Democrat

:01:35. > :01:41.He may only have eight MPs to show for the 2.4 million people who voted

:01:42. > :01:46.But they're meeting for their annual conference not in a phone box -

:01:47. > :01:51.as some of the crueller commentators have suggested -

:01:52. > :01:53.but in Brighton, And Mr Farron, who's said he'd like to imitate

:01:54. > :01:57.the Canadian Liberal leader and president Justin Trudeau,

:01:58. > :02:02.is going to tell his party that he too can help the party

:02:03. > :02:07.We're sure he didn't want any other comparisons to be drawn

:02:08. > :02:11.with the international heartthrob Mr Trudeau.

:02:12. > :02:17.And joining us to listen to the speech, one Lib Dem who knows

:02:18. > :02:19.a bit about the party both in and out of power,

:02:20. > :02:22.Polly Mackenzie - she worked for Nick Clegg in Downing Street

:02:23. > :02:35.There's been a lot of talk about Liberal Democrats about recent

:02:36. > :02:39.by-election wins. That smacks of a throwback to the past when that was

:02:40. > :02:42.the only evidence the Lib Dems had of any popularity with voters? There

:02:43. > :02:45.haven't been many general elections in the past year for them to measure

:02:46. > :02:49.themselves against or Parliamentary contests, so in a way it's not

:02:50. > :02:53.surprising the only thing that's happening in electoral politics is

:02:54. > :02:58.things like membership numbers and local council by-elections. They are

:02:59. > :03:01.seizing those opportunities. You are right it's not sufficient as a path

:03:02. > :03:05.back to power but it's a start. Smacks of desperation? It's the only

:03:06. > :03:09.thing going, better to do something than nothing. General election

:03:10. > :03:12.aside, there were the London Mayoral elections, they pitted those as

:03:13. > :03:17.something they would do well in and didn't. They came fourth and fifth.

:03:18. > :03:21.Londoners are particularly challenging for Liberal Democrats

:03:22. > :03:25.and it's never... Very pro-European? Exactly, it's because all the

:03:26. > :03:29.parties adopt a centre Liberal narrative, the Conservatives are

:03:30. > :03:32.liberal, the Labour Party is in London and that means there isn't

:03:33. > :03:35.space for the Liberal Democrats, it's across the country where the

:03:36. > :03:45.Liberal voice might have more of an opportunity. Apparently former MPs

:03:46. > :03:48.like Vince Cable and others are on snap election alert. Is that wise?

:03:49. > :03:53.It's possible there is going to be an election. Do you believe that? I

:03:54. > :03:57.think that it's possible. It doesn't look particularly likely to me but

:03:58. > :04:01.again better to be prepared and ready to campaign than in a mess

:04:02. > :04:05.like the Labour Party is. So is that the sort of talk amongst Lib Dems

:04:06. > :04:09.and should it be in your mind that they are poised to spring into

:04:10. > :04:13.action and campaign in their former seats that they lost in the general

:04:14. > :04:19.election on an issue, for instance, like a second referendum on the deal

:04:20. > :04:23.for Brexit? I think Tim's started to set out a clear message which he

:04:24. > :04:26.would put forward if there was a general election soon. If Theresa

:04:27. > :04:30.May did decide to call an election, who knows what it would be about.

:04:31. > :04:34.The noise is about grammar schools but I can't imagine her calling an

:04:35. > :04:37.election on that. So actually focussing on the big issue of the

:04:38. > :04:42.day which is Brexit and setting our our position on it makes sense to

:04:43. > :04:45.me. Having been in power in coalition, how much has that damaged

:04:46. > :04:48.on its own the Liberal Democrat brand for any chance of them

:04:49. > :04:53.regaining some of the seats they lost? Well, I mean, it's pretty

:04:54. > :04:58.obvious isn't it, they are down to eight seats and we paid a huge price

:04:59. > :05:02.for the five years in power where we got to change the country in a whole

:05:03. > :05:06.variety of ways in a way we spent 70 years of political capital on that

:05:07. > :05:10.five years in power, I hope it doesn't take 70 years to get back

:05:11. > :05:15.but it would be fool hardy to pretend the impact hasn't been

:05:16. > :05:19.enormous. We have given away none of the above vote and it seems to be

:05:20. > :05:24.lodged firmly with Ukip at the moment and that's heartbreaking for

:05:25. > :05:28.me to see that kind of generic anyone but Labour or Conservatives

:05:29. > :05:31.vote lodged with a party that I basically find abhorrent. What is

:05:32. > :05:35.the strongest message for the Liberal Democrats now? The message

:05:36. > :05:39.that Tim is really pushing is that he is the leader who can unite

:05:40. > :05:45.parties around the centre-left and be the decent opposition to the

:05:46. > :05:49.Conservatives. There isn't a decent position at the moment and actually

:05:50. > :05:54.fining, as Theresa May develops as the Prime Minister, and stumbles,

:05:55. > :05:58.there does need to be a voice. How can there be that position with the

:05:59. > :06:02.MPs? Well, it's challenging. It would be easier... British

:06:03. > :06:05.understatement isn't it? Jeremy Corbyn isn't doing a very good job

:06:06. > :06:11.so there is a vacancy there for decent strong voices. It comes down

:06:12. > :06:17.to ideas. A remarkable result at the next election say in 2020, a

:06:18. > :06:20.remarkable result would be 20 Lib Dem seats from eight. I think

:06:21. > :06:25.inlikely but remarkable if it happened? How could you be in

:06:26. > :06:30.opposition with even 20 seats. It's nonsense isn't it? The question is,

:06:31. > :06:34.can you start to tell a story of a different country and a future

:06:35. > :06:37.narrative and a future approach to governing the country. But you are

:06:38. > :06:40.right, like I said, it could be 70 years for the Liberal Democrats to

:06:41. > :06:45.build up. Probably a generation isn't it? But actually, every

:06:46. > :06:50.general election you double or triple your remit takes, you can see

:06:51. > :06:54.a path back to 50-60 MPs as we were before. Things change in politics.

:06:55. > :06:58.Do you think the very policies the Liberal Democrats as they see

:06:59. > :07:02.themselves as the centre party of the political spectrum, that they'll

:07:03. > :07:06.be rejected, they have been rejected in Brexit, some of the

:07:07. > :07:09.internationalist views have been rejected by the electorate as they

:07:10. > :07:13.have looked to Ukip or perhaps Jeremy Corbyn and the Conservatives,

:07:14. > :07:19.that that space in the middle, although it's a gaping hole, is not

:07:20. > :07:24.one that interests voters? Except remember the Brexit vote was 48-52.

:07:25. > :07:27.There are a lot that share the views of the Liberal Democrats, 40% above

:07:28. > :07:30.where the Lib Demes are doing in the polls at the moment so there is a

:07:31. > :07:33.big market out there. You have to remember that Tim's objective at the

:07:34. > :07:39.moment is to rebuild, as Andrew said, maybe to 20 or 30 seats or to

:07:40. > :07:48.go beyond that. He's not trying to be a majority Government with 52% of

:07:49. > :07:51.the vote. I don't understand, his policy that's most distinct at the

:07:52. > :07:55.moment, is to have another referendum, to have a second

:07:56. > :08:04.referendum on Europe once the Brexit deal is done. But his top target

:08:05. > :08:07.seats are North Devon, St Ives, North Cornwall, Yeovil. Do you want

:08:08. > :08:12.me to tell you the majorities of Brexit in these constituencies? Go

:08:13. > :08:16.on then? Huge. 60-40 in some cases. How does that work? Again it's

:08:17. > :08:21.nonsense. How can you take that position and target seats which are

:08:22. > :08:26.overwhelmingly Euro-sceptic? It's a question of bringing together the

:08:27. > :08:28.strong local campaigning, the increasing disenfranchisement people

:08:29. > :08:32.will have with the Government of the day, and also I think what we'll see

:08:33. > :08:35.in Tim's speech is him starting to build other policies to come around

:08:36. > :08:39.that, to talking about education and health. We have seen announcements

:08:40. > :08:45.there. To build a clearer narrative about an opposition. Can we agree

:08:46. > :08:49.that calling for another referendum won't help? OK.

:08:50. > :08:52.On that point, we agree. We'll move on.

:08:53. > :08:54.I think it's fair to say that the number of journalists

:08:55. > :08:57.at the seaside with the Lib Dems is smaller than it has

:08:58. > :09:01.But after an exhaustive search, we've found two brave souls who have

:09:02. > :09:04.travelled to Brighton to listen to Mr Farron -

:09:05. > :09:10.it's Matt Chorley from the Times and Kate McCann from the Telegraph.

:09:11. > :09:17.Set the scene for us, Matt Chorley, what is it like down there?

:09:18. > :09:21.A bit drizzly. Some came down hoping for a bit of sunshine. It's not a

:09:22. > :09:26.weather forecast I'm looking for, it's a political forecast? Yeah... I

:09:27. > :09:29.mean, as ever with the Lib Dems, they are relentlessly optimistic

:09:30. > :09:33.about the future, it's all going to be all right in tend, as it has

:09:34. > :09:36.been, the time through the coalition, they said it was going to

:09:37. > :09:40.be all right in the end. We know what happened. They are still

:09:41. > :09:44.optimistic in politics, they think it's going to be all right. Kate,

:09:45. > :09:50.how do you take it? Certainly quieter than it has been in previous

:09:51. > :09:53.years and I think Tim Farron has a challenge with his speech this

:09:54. > :09:57.morning to get people revved up for the year ahead. There should be a

:09:58. > :09:59.few interesting things he's going to say about National Health Service

:10:00. > :10:02.and the schools. He's probably going to make an appeal to Labour voters.

:10:03. > :10:08.So that could be worth watching out for. Do you think anybody is

:10:09. > :10:14.listening? That's the big problem isn't it. 8%

:10:15. > :10:18.of the polls now, theynded 2010 at 8% after all the tuition fees stuff,

:10:19. > :10:25.left Government at 8% and are still there. It seems no matter what they

:10:26. > :10:27.do, change of leader, being out of Government, relentlily pro-European,

:10:28. > :10:32.it doesn't make any difference. Nobody else seems to be listening.

:10:33. > :10:36.They are still 8% and Tim Farron is working harder in trying to change

:10:37. > :10:39.that with increasingly bold language, taking on issues that

:10:40. > :10:44.maybe other political parties wouldn't. Whether that is putting up

:10:45. > :10:48.taxes, legalising cannabis or appealing to the Labour moderates,

:10:49. > :10:51.if you like, but the big problem is, we are here, but it's whether anyone

:10:52. > :10:55.else is. Isn't the problem that they face

:10:56. > :11:04.Kate, that you have got, the Labour moving further to the left, lots of

:11:05. > :11:09.unhappy centrist Labour MPs and, on the Conservative side centrist Tory

:11:10. > :11:15.MPs unhappy about the Brexit vote, they wanted to stay in. Mr Farron is

:11:16. > :11:19.presenting himself as a centries or moderate centre left, strongly

:11:20. > :11:24.pro-EU, but nobody wants to hug him, nobody's hugged him? Well, I mean,

:11:25. > :11:27.maybe it's still early days and Tim Farron is hoping he can make an

:11:28. > :11:31.impression in the coming months when things become a bit more stark

:11:32. > :11:35.perhaps. You don't sound very convinced by that? Well, I hate to

:11:36. > :11:39.make predictions given what's happened recently. I wouldn't want

:11:40. > :11:43.to put my money on any particular outcome but what I will say is if

:11:44. > :11:46.Jeremy Corbyn is elected on Saturday, the choice for some Labour

:11:47. > :11:50.voters will become very stark very quickly and I think Tim Farron is

:11:51. > :11:53.hoping that if he continues to make a clear message and appeal to the

:11:54. > :11:56.voters that he is the way to go, that could shift opinions and

:11:57. > :12:01.perhaps he might have time to do that if Theresa May is determined

:12:02. > :12:06.not to call an election until 2020. But Matt Chorley, is there any

:12:07. > :12:10.evidence, any indication that disillusioned centrists on either of

:12:11. > :12:18.the two main parties are thinking of hugging Tim Farron? No. Bluntly. The

:12:19. > :12:22.problem is you are absolutely right. There is this huge area in the

:12:23. > :12:27.political sector which has opened up for something to try and appeal to

:12:28. > :12:31.both voters and MPs in that area. The problem is the Lib Dems aren't

:12:32. > :12:37.being seen as the vehicle on that. There's only 8 of them in the House

:12:38. > :12:40.of Commons so things need to be pretty bad for disaffected Labour MP

:12:41. > :12:45.and they are bad for a lot of Labour MPs on the benches. To give up the

:12:46. > :12:47.position of being in the region of 200 or something, to move across

:12:48. > :12:51.that dead corner in the House of Commons where there's only 8, you

:12:52. > :12:56.have to be fed up to do that. That is the problem, if there were 3020

:12:57. > :13:02.or 30 left, there might be more appeal there. As a vehicle for that,

:13:03. > :13:07.that is the big problem -- 20 or 30. Kate, there is a poll in the London

:13:08. > :13:13.Evening Standard today, Jo will be talking more about that later, but

:13:14. > :13:20.it shows that the party itself is six or seven points in the polls now

:13:21. > :13:23.single figures still. And it also shows Mr Farron's own personal

:13:24. > :13:28.ratings have flatlined since he became leader, that he has made no

:13:29. > :13:32.cut through, no impact, as of yet on the British public? That's true. I

:13:33. > :13:36.wonder how long it might take before we see the Lib Dems start to ask if

:13:37. > :13:42.Tim Farron might be the problem. I hate to say it minutes before the

:13:43. > :13:45.big speech, but Nick Clegg... It's the alternative option that's

:13:46. > :13:51.probably the worse. You never know, Nick Clegg may come back, there was

:13:52. > :13:54.Clegg mania, nobody saw that coming, maybe he might come back if he were

:13:55. > :14:00.interested in taking up that position again. We'll have to leave

:14:01. > :14:04.it there. But Matt Chorley, you do this thing called red box or blue

:14:05. > :14:15.box or something is that right? Red box, that's right. And usual giving

:14:16. > :14:19.away mugs. I mean, the sheer rip-off of the Daily Politics! Are you not

:14:20. > :14:26.ashamed of yourself? These are nice mugs. Should be ashamed of yourself.

:14:27. > :14:29.These are very expensive. I'm reaching out to disaffected Daily

:14:30. > :14:35.Express mug fans. You are not going to sell many then!

:14:36. > :14:40.-- Daily Politics mug fans. Thanks for your time this afternoon

:14:41. > :14:44.and remember, folks, there's only one real thing when it comes to

:14:45. > :14:51.muggings. Mugs. Same thing? ! Former Lib Dem leader Paddy Ashdown

:14:52. > :14:54.raised a few eyebrows earlier this week when he suggested that parties

:14:55. > :14:58.on the left should agree on one candidate to take

:14:59. > :15:01.on the Conservatives in the Witney So what did party members

:15:02. > :15:08.in Brighton make of Eleanor Garnier's taken

:15:09. > :15:13.the moodbox to find out. The general election might be a few

:15:14. > :15:16.years away but there is a certain But should they just

:15:17. > :15:19.be one candidate Should the other

:15:20. > :15:23.parties do a deal or no Oh, look, Nick Clegg

:15:24. > :15:27.is doing a book signing. In Witney, do you think there should

:15:28. > :15:31.be a deal between the other parties or just one party,

:15:32. > :15:34.one candidate going up against the You would have to ask the

:15:35. > :15:45.leader that. No deal, I think we

:15:46. > :15:52.can win on our own. We don't need anybody else

:15:53. > :15:56.to differ, we hope we can win Witney and will

:15:57. > :15:58.fight as hard as we can. Because otherwise we

:15:59. > :16:05.are very unlikely to unseat them, and there is more

:16:06. > :16:08.That we agree on land don't agree If it was one candidate

:16:09. > :16:12.and it was our candidate then yes. But on the basis it will not

:16:13. > :16:14.probably be that arrangement and the Labour

:16:15. > :16:17.Party wouldn't stand for it, then it I know, its ballot

:16:18. > :16:27.rigging, I got caught in Because I think it's an opportunity

:16:28. > :16:35.to begin to kind of focus and go We are quite capable

:16:36. > :16:45.of making a big impact in We were involved in the Eastleigh

:16:46. > :16:50.by-election and I remember most of the motorways up and down

:16:51. > :16:53.the country being jammed with I don't think Labour

:16:54. > :16:59.is very competitive, so I would be happy for them

:17:00. > :17:01.to stand and lose. I think the progressive

:17:02. > :17:07.parties should work together for a common cause,

:17:08. > :17:10.belief in Europe and belief in We have made it to the end

:17:11. > :17:14.of the Nick Clegg book signing Let's go downstairs

:17:15. > :17:19.and find some more people. Can we ask you a very

:17:20. > :17:24.quick question? Should all the other

:17:25. > :17:32.parties do a deal or no Here you go, help

:17:33. > :17:43.yourself to a ball. I'm convinced we have a Lib Dem,

:17:44. > :17:47.strongly, to stand against whoever the Tories put up and I hope

:17:48. > :17:50.the people will vote for them and show what they think

:17:51. > :17:54.of this government 's. I'm a great believer

:17:55. > :18:03.in democracy and democracy means all the parties should

:18:04. > :18:09.stand a candidate 's. After that exhausting lap

:18:10. > :18:11.of the Lib Dem conference, the I think there is a programme called

:18:12. > :18:26.deal or no Deal... I'm joined now from Norwich

:18:27. > :18:29.by the Shadow Defence He's a Labour MP keen on the idea

:18:30. > :18:39.of more co-operation You are firmly behind this idea of

:18:40. > :18:43.cooperating with the Liberal Democrats, for example in the seat

:18:44. > :18:47.of Witney? It's something I have given some thought to. It's not for

:18:48. > :18:52.me to make that decision. What do you think? I think the idea of

:18:53. > :18:56.Progressive parties working together and coming together to work on

:18:57. > :19:00.issues they agree with has a lot of merit and it's something I'm

:19:01. > :19:03.interested in. It seems a bit show businesslike, in terms of taking on

:19:04. > :19:11.David Cameron, there is some merit in it but I think it's a bit

:19:12. > :19:14.short-sighted. I think the whole concept of Progressive Alliance is a

:19:15. > :19:16.longer term thing than one by-election standing against David

:19:17. > :19:21.Cameron. As delightful as it would be to see the Tories beaten in that

:19:22. > :19:25.seat. Do you think it would work in Witney? I think it's a very short

:19:26. > :19:31.time frame to cobble together a candidate on which everyone can

:19:32. > :19:35.agree. In Tatton you had a candidate everyone realised was the right

:19:36. > :19:40.person for that particular seat, taking on Neil Hamilton. I don't

:19:41. > :19:44.know if you will find that kind of Parliamentary candidate in time.

:19:45. > :19:49.Putting aside Witney, how would it work in other seats in the longer

:19:50. > :19:54.term, who would stand for whom? I think what you're trying to do here

:19:55. > :19:59.is talking about some of electoral pact. That's exactly what it is. A

:20:00. > :20:03.lot of work has to be done on this. If that was the case then it is

:20:04. > :20:09.something all progressive political parties would need to talk about.

:20:10. > :20:13.Another issue here, the concept of what you would stand on. The key

:20:14. > :20:17.issues I think most progressive parties, including Ukip, which isn't

:20:18. > :20:21.a Progressive party, would agree on, is that we need to change the

:20:22. > :20:25.electoral system to a proportional representation system. If you make

:20:26. > :20:30.that the key thing around which you focus your general election

:20:31. > :20:35.campaign, we all believe that you need PR, get over the first past the

:20:36. > :20:38.post line, and then initiate proportional representation and call

:20:39. > :20:43.another elections. There are lots of options but we need to start the

:20:44. > :20:48.discussion. We are starting it here on the programme. Polly can enter

:20:49. > :20:51.into this. On that basis, if the goal was changing the electoral

:20:52. > :20:56.system, for example, would it be worth it going in with Clive Lewis

:20:57. > :21:00.and his party? I don't disagree with anything Clive Lewis has said,

:21:01. > :21:05.really. I have long thought proportional representation, a

:21:06. > :21:08.change to our voting system would be a tremendous change for our

:21:09. > :21:14.democracy. We had a referendum on a voting system change in 2011. It

:21:15. > :21:18.wasn't PR, but the idea you can bring together a Progressive

:21:19. > :21:23.Alliance and win a majority on the basis of delivering proportional

:21:24. > :21:28.representation is a bit ambitious. Clive Lewis, what did you want to

:21:29. > :21:32.say? I think political parties would stand on a manifesto other than just

:21:33. > :21:36.PR. But one thing they could all agree on is that if they get past

:21:37. > :21:40.the first past the post system and get in, then PR would be the big

:21:41. > :21:44.thing we would instigate and then you could potentially call another

:21:45. > :21:48.election based on PR and go your separate ways or call alliances as

:21:49. > :21:54.you see fit. All political parties would have on manifesto but they

:21:55. > :22:01.would have that running through them. Chopping up who gets what, it

:22:02. > :22:07.feels like a shady backroom deal, precisely what we are trying to

:22:08. > :22:12.abolish. No. It's a challenge and nobly has put forward an answer to

:22:13. > :22:18.solve that conundrum. Clive Lewis is in a seat in Norwich South which is

:22:19. > :22:26.quite precarious, stuffed with Green Party and Liberal Democrat voters.

:22:27. > :22:29.In terms of a Progressive Alliance, it's not simply about what's in the

:22:30. > :22:32.interest of one particular party. We all understand that having a

:22:33. > :22:37.political system, a voting system that gives people a real say... You

:22:38. > :22:44.have said that. Ultimately that's what this is about and what it comes

:22:45. > :22:49.down to. This can't be a top-down, we will tell our local parties how

:22:50. > :22:53.they were going to... Would you step aside in your seat to allow a

:22:54. > :22:58.Liberal Democrat or green, for example, to stand on common themes

:22:59. > :23:04.you agreed with in order to keep the seat from the Tories? I have thought

:23:05. > :23:08.long and hard about this. If there was an electoral pact and a

:23:09. > :23:10.Progressive Alliance where it was the difference between actually

:23:11. > :23:16.having a voting system that enabled our democracy to have a better form

:23:17. > :23:22.of governance, then yes I would. When you look at at how the little

:23:23. > :23:25.Democrats are polling at the moment, any chance to win a seat for a

:23:26. > :23:33.Progressive Alliance left would be a good thing. Yes, and Clive shows

:23:34. > :23:36.great honour in his willingness to put himself forward. But what we

:23:37. > :23:39.have found is that the most tribal people in the country other

:23:40. > :23:44.political party activists and in the end they deliver the candidates. So

:23:45. > :23:48.getting people to stand aside would be a big challenge. The worst place

:23:49. > :23:52.to start would be Witney, where however many parties you bring

:23:53. > :23:55.together, they would lose. Clive Lewis, which proposal do you back

:23:56. > :24:01.for the Shadow Cabinet elections, should they be elected by MPs, you

:24:02. > :24:08.and your peers, or a hybrid? It's not my decision. But you will have a

:24:09. > :24:13.view. I expressed it yesterday. It will be made by the NEC later today.

:24:14. > :24:17.I personally think if you are going to have a system of electing a

:24:18. > :24:21.Shadow Cabinet, it needs to be part of a wider package of democratic

:24:22. > :24:25.reforms in our party. I think part of that could be how we engage the

:24:26. > :24:31.membership and affiliates in that process and also the MPs, everybody

:24:32. > :24:39.should have a stake. And also the leader. You do like the hybrid? I do

:24:40. > :24:40.prefer that, yes. That's all you had to say! Thank you for coming onto

:24:41. > :24:51.the programme. News coming in from New York as we

:24:52. > :24:55.have been on air, relatives of the man apprehended for the bombings in

:24:56. > :25:03.New York left the country before the bombings. His wife left for Pakistan

:25:04. > :25:07.but was apprehended in the United Arab Emirates before she got to

:25:08. > :25:12.Pakistan. The mother had left for turkey before the attacks and hasn't

:25:13. > :25:16.yet returned. She left several weeks before and hasn't yet return to the

:25:17. > :25:18.United States. That will be part of the ongoing enquiry by the New York

:25:19. > :25:21.police and federal authorities. Now, the Lib Dems yesterday voted

:25:22. > :25:24.to back a policy of calling for a second referendum on the terms

:25:25. > :25:27.of the Brexit deal. Not everyone's happy -

:25:28. > :25:29.Vince Cable warned that such a move But the plan is supported by other

:25:30. > :25:33.senior Liberal Democrats, It's not the first time Mr Cable

:25:34. > :25:37.and Mr Clegg have disagreed. I think under pressure

:25:38. > :25:42.from their more swivel-eyed backbenchers, under pressure

:25:43. > :25:46.from the, sort of, Brexit press, under pressure from their own

:25:47. > :25:48.internal contradictions, they will move remorselessly

:25:49. > :25:53.towards a hard Brexit. Not only taking us out

:25:54. > :25:58.of the European Union, but taking us And when they do that,

:25:59. > :26:04.they will do untold damage They will undo an extraordinary

:26:05. > :26:09.British achievement, the creation of the world's largest

:26:10. > :26:15.borderless marketplace anywhere. And at that point they can never say

:26:16. > :26:18.again, having done so much damage to our great country

:26:19. > :26:20.because of their obsession about Europe, they can never again

:26:21. > :26:23.say that they are a responsible And we're joined now from Brighton

:26:24. > :26:36.by the Liberal Democrat's Home Affairs Spokesman,

:26:37. > :26:49.Alistair Carmichael. Welcome to the programme. Did the

:26:50. > :26:55.Lib Dems propose a second referendum during the referendum campaign? No,

:26:56. > :27:02.we didn't. During the referendum campaign we were out there front and

:27:03. > :27:06.centre making the case to remain part of the European Union. We now

:27:07. > :27:10.have to respond to the results presented to us, and our response is

:27:11. > :27:16.to say that looking at what happened, you had a contest between

:27:17. > :27:21.two propositions. A known one, what we have if we remain, and an

:27:22. > :27:26.unknown, what would happen if we were to leave. It's difficult to

:27:27. > :27:30.make a decision between a known and an unknown. We are now in a position

:27:31. > :27:37.where we are going to have the negotiation and from that we will

:27:38. > :27:41.have a deal. Then we have two known propositions. We say not

:27:42. > :27:46.disrespectful to the voters, just the opposite, it gives voters the

:27:47. > :27:49.final say, having voted for departure, is this the destination

:27:50. > :27:53.you wanted to wanted to go to? You knew that during the referendum

:27:54. > :28:00.campaign, that it would be the situation. You knew there wasn't a

:28:01. > :28:04.detailed plan and it would have to be negotiated. But you didn't tell

:28:05. > :28:08.us there would be a second referendum. You have only come for a

:28:09. > :28:17.replay because you lost the first time. No, what we have said is that

:28:18. > :28:21.the people have spoken, 17 million people gave a mandate to the British

:28:22. > :28:26.government to go and negotiate. That's now what has to happen. They

:28:27. > :28:31.have to negotiate in good faith and get the best possible deal. At the

:28:32. > :28:36.end of that deal, it should then be put to the people. I think there is

:28:37. > :28:41.an important national interest at play here. By their nature,

:28:42. > :28:46.referendums are fairly divisive and polarising exercises. If we are to

:28:47. > :28:49.bring the whole country back together again, I think it's

:28:50. > :28:55.important that everybody, whether you are in the 48 or 52%, can be

:28:56. > :28:59.satisfied that the country is getting what it expected to get, and

:29:00. > :29:05.for that reason, a referendum on the deal is important. You describe

:29:06. > :29:09.referendums as polarising and divisive. I remind you that the

:29:10. > :29:12.Liberal Democrats were the first National party to propose an in-out

:29:13. > :29:17.referendum in the first place. At one stage it was your party policy.

:29:18. > :29:22.When he proposed that, did you propose a second referendum on the

:29:23. > :29:28.outcome? We have always said the issue of Europe and the future of

:29:29. > :29:31.our position in the European Union was a grumbling saw in British

:29:32. > :29:36.politics and it was going to have to be addressed at some point. Ideally,

:29:37. > :29:44.probably Margaret Thatcher should have put the single European act

:29:45. > :29:47.in... My question was, when he proposed a referendum, did you

:29:48. > :29:50.propose a second referendum on the terms of the negotiation? Of course

:29:51. > :29:58.we didn't and you know that perfectly well. Why not if it's a

:29:59. > :30:02.good idea now? Let me explain, when you are presented with a particular

:30:03. > :30:05.set of circumstances and a particular set of facts, then I

:30:06. > :30:09.think it's perfectly legitimate and appropriate that a political party

:30:10. > :30:14.should respond to that. I think that's what the British people

:30:15. > :30:19.expect, and I have absolutely no shame in doing exactly that. I think

:30:20. > :30:22.it's responsible politics which ultimately will bring our position

:30:23. > :30:27.on the world stage back to where it needs to be. When will this

:30:28. > :30:36.referendum take place? Once we know the terms of the deal. Theresa May

:30:37. > :30:39.and her ministers, Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, after the go

:30:40. > :30:43.and negotiate with the other member states, give the clearest possible

:30:44. > :30:47.detail of the future relationship with the European Union and once we

:30:48. > :30:52.know what that means, at that stage we should have the second vote. It

:30:53. > :30:57.could possibly be a couple of years down the line. This is why Theresa

:30:58. > :31:01.May at the moment keeps saying Brexit means Brexit. Frankly, as

:31:02. > :31:05.soon as she tries to give any more detail on that, does it mean in or

:31:06. > :31:12.out of the single market, does it mean hard breaks it, a free movement

:31:13. > :31:17.of labour and goods? She knows there are enormous splits in her own

:31:18. > :31:21.party. I'm asking you about the timetable because it will probably

:31:22. > :31:27.take the full two years allowed under article 50 to do what would be

:31:28. > :31:32.a complicated negotiation. At the end of that two years, we are out,

:31:33. > :31:37.that's article 50. So what's the point of your referendum? Will you

:31:38. > :31:38.ask all of Europe to delay us leaving until you've had your

:31:39. > :31:45.referendum? If you look at the terms of Article

:31:46. > :31:52.50 it's short and general in its terms. I don't think this is

:31:53. > :31:56.something that's going to be a governed entirely by the law. It's a

:31:57. > :32:00.question where ultimately the deciding and decisive factors will

:32:01. > :32:08.be political rather than legal. Excuse me to suspend Article 50...

:32:09. > :32:12.To keep... Alastair Carmichael. Yes. To suspend Article 50 beyond two

:32:13. > :32:16.years, you need all 27 members to agree, you need them all. Yes.

:32:17. > :32:20.Otherwise you can't have your referendum. Do you agree with that?

:32:21. > :32:23.Absolutely. We know that there is a time limit on Article 50, that is

:32:24. > :32:28.something that will have to be in the mind of Theresa May and her

:32:29. > :32:33.negotiating team. I'm not saying this this is some kind of panacea

:32:34. > :32:39.and I'm not saying it will be easy. What I am saying is there is an

:32:40. > :32:42.extestential crisis for the European, a project for which I

:32:43. > :32:46.remain passionate. I'm of the view it's essential for our country to be

:32:47. > :32:50.at the heart of Europe and I think that it's important for that reason

:32:51. > :32:56.that we should be clear as a country that if we are going to leave, then

:32:57. > :33:00.we should be in a position of knowing exactly the terms of which

:33:01. > :33:05.we are leaving, that's not the case at the moment. You really think the

:33:06. > :33:16.other 27 members of the European Union are going to spend hours, days

:33:17. > :33:23.and weeks of negotiating terms on exit on something that will change

:33:24. > :33:28.our mind I've never heard anybody in the European Union say they want

:33:29. > :33:32.Britain to leave. I've never encountered anything other than

:33:33. > :33:36.utter bewilderment. But they have said now that we should get on with

:33:37. > :33:40.it. If we made this part of our negotiating approach to the European

:33:41. > :33:44.Union then yes I believe they'll cooperate with us. I believe it's in

:33:45. > :33:49.the interests of the European Union that Britain should be in there as

:33:50. > :33:52.well. Have you asked anyone? Have you asked my members of the European

:33:53. > :33:55.Union if they'll go along with the second referendum idea? I'm no

:33:56. > :34:00.longer a Government minister, it's not for me to conduct the

:34:01. > :34:05.negotiations. I was just asking if you'd sounded them out? No, I've not

:34:06. > :34:11.approached it. I have no... You have no idea... You know perfectly well.

:34:12. > :34:14.It's something, we are at the start of it, it's a long negotiation

:34:15. > :34:20.process, I think it's the sort of thing the Government should be

:34:21. > :34:25.bottoming out. You just said earlier you were passionate about Europe and

:34:26. > :34:29.Europe was in an extestential crisis. Why are you passionate about

:34:30. > :34:34.something that's in an extestential crisis? I'm passionate about the

:34:35. > :34:37.idea that, since the end of the Second World War, cooperation

:34:38. > :34:41.amongst European nations, principally through the European,

:34:42. > :34:45.but also through other organisations like the Council of Europe and NATO,

:34:46. > :34:50.has kept us at peace. You know, and I think we underestimate the impact

:34:51. > :34:55.of that at our peril. Why is it in extestential crisis then? It's in

:34:56. > :35:01.extestential crisis because you see that across Europe a number of

:35:02. > :35:06.political forces on the far right especially have been emboldened by

:35:07. > :35:10.what they see as being behind the vote in Britain to leave the

:35:11. > :35:15.European Union. I think that's possibly the intended

:35:16. > :35:19.consequence. Hold on, madam Le Pen was riding high in the polls before

:35:20. > :35:23.the Brexit vote. The five star movement was riding high here before

:35:24. > :35:27.the Brexit vote. The centre right party in Greece had been wiped out

:35:28. > :35:33.before the Brexit vote. The hard right in Hungary had taken power

:35:34. > :35:37.before Brexit and the right-wing mainstream non-Government, Poland

:35:38. > :35:41.had taken power before the Brexit vote and the Sweden democrats, a

:35:42. > :35:46.hard-right party were polling third in Sweden before the Brexit vote. So

:35:47. > :35:52.I don't understand why you get the idea that... At no point. You

:35:53. > :35:58.misrepresent what I said. At no point did I say that the whole

:35:59. > :36:03.process had been Nish Jayed but it has certainly been emboldened --

:36:04. > :36:08.initiated. I don't think anybody would dispute that. Thank you very

:36:09. > :36:14.much for joining us. We'll see what Mr Farron has to say. We haven't got

:36:15. > :36:24.long to wait. The hall will no doubt be filling up and queues will be

:36:25. > :36:29.forming outside. It's filled up in fact as Tim Farron is due to take to

:36:30. > :36:34.the stage. They have been boasting they have got enough members to fill

:36:35. > :36:35.the hall. Tim Farron was elected as leader, promising a Lib Dem fight

:36:36. > :36:48.back, so is there any sign of one? at the 2015 General Election -

:36:49. > :36:53.winning just 8% of the vote. Since then the party has

:36:54. > :36:56.made little progress The party did gain 49 seats however

:36:57. > :37:00.in the English local elections - better than the Tories and Labour

:37:01. > :37:03.who both lost seats. The party may be worried however

:37:04. > :37:06.by the findings of a YouGov survey for Newsnight

:37:07. > :37:07.to be broadcast tonight. It found seven out of 10 former

:37:08. > :37:10.Lib Dem voters are uncertain what the party stands for,

:37:11. > :37:12.with 32% saying they 65% of British adults have no

:37:13. > :37:16.opinion on the question of whether he's doing well

:37:17. > :37:31.or badly as Leader. We are joined by our guest Joe who's

:37:32. > :37:34.done the poll with Newsnight. What is your overall take away? There's

:37:35. > :37:40.good news and bad news. Three quarters of those people who voted

:37:41. > :37:43.for the Lib Dems in 2010 but didn't in 2015 don't support them now say

:37:44. > :37:46.they would vote for the Lib Dems potentially at some stage in the

:37:47. > :37:49.future and yes, we have seen in local by-elections that things have

:37:50. > :37:56.improved, the membership numbers are up. That's all good news, but there

:37:57. > :37:58.is bad news as well. Really people are uncertain, it doesn't matter

:37:59. > :38:00.whether we are talking about the general public or Lib Dem

:38:01. > :38:04.supporters, people are uncertain what they stand for or what they

:38:05. > :38:09.should stand for indeed. Should they be an opposition to Government,

:38:10. > :38:12.campaigning to stay in the EU, playing a role in Government? Among

:38:13. > :38:16.their supporters, there is no real decision either way on that. If you

:38:17. > :38:21.want to stage this fightback, you need to turn in the era of social

:38:22. > :38:25.media to the leader and two thirds of the public don't know when he's

:38:26. > :38:30.doing a good or bad job, including half of Lib Dem voters and even a

:38:31. > :38:34.third of Lib Dem supporters, they don't know whether he's doing a good

:38:35. > :38:37.or bad job. It doesn't help if you don't have a big Parliamentary base,

:38:38. > :38:40.you might not get the air time that you would get in a bigger party. In

:38:41. > :38:44.terms of people don't know what they stand for, is this message about a

:38:45. > :38:48.second referendum on the Brexit not cutting through? It doesn't appear

:38:49. > :38:52.to be at the moment. Generally speaking, it falls along the lines

:38:53. > :38:56.of the vote, but even a third of people who voted to remain say there

:38:57. > :39:00.shouldn't be a second referendum so there is not an overwhelming desire

:39:01. > :39:07.and, among Lib Dem voters, two thirds voted to stay, but a third

:39:08. > :39:12.voted to leave. It's not the case that overoverwhelmingly they were...

:39:13. > :39:16.Listening to that interview, is that the right way to go for the Lib

:39:17. > :39:23.Dems, to tie themselves and try to define themselves of a part of the

:39:24. > :39:26.48% who voted to remain in the EU? It's distinctive and appeals in

:39:27. > :39:31.particular to the huge number of Labour voters who voted to remain

:39:32. > :39:37.and who aren't really represented by their current leader who knows how

:39:38. > :39:41.he voted. I think as Andrew's interview with Alastair showed, it's

:39:42. > :39:45.a messy, complicated policy, but of course the status quo is messy and

:39:46. > :39:47.complicated too because we have a Government trying to negotiate with

:39:48. > :39:51.really no mandate about what it is that they are supposed to get except

:39:52. > :39:55.that it must be out. But even on that, it's not getting any traction

:39:56. > :39:59.in the polls, so is it still a policy that they should be following

:40:00. > :40:02.if it's not gaining any track sthun? I think it takes time for any

:40:03. > :40:06.message to get through. It's a fairly clear one though? But most

:40:07. > :40:10.people don't pay attention to politics most of the time and so you

:40:11. > :40:15.have to actually just keep saying the same thing a lot until people

:40:16. > :40:20.listen. Why would the Europeans, in the two years of negotiations, give

:40:21. > :40:23.us Anything if they knew there was

:40:24. > :40:27.going to be a referendum? Tactically if you want us to remain in, that

:40:28. > :40:31.might be helpful, they might be offering such a terrible deal that

:40:32. > :40:38.when compared with staying in it would feel better. If you if they

:40:39. > :40:43.made it seem like coming out would have been palatable, the UN's tactic

:40:44. > :40:47.would surely be, no, this is going to be miserable, you can't have

:40:48. > :40:51.access to the single market, we insist on free movement, why would

:40:52. > :40:57.they give us anything if they knew another vote was come something?

:40:58. > :41:01.Gull if you want us to remain. But you are negotiating a deal to leave,

:41:02. > :41:07.not to remain? The Government is, but of course if Tim Farron was in

:41:08. > :41:11.charge he'd be voting to stay. On the same terms as now. The problem

:41:12. > :41:14.it seems on this issue is that if there was a second referendum there

:41:15. > :41:17.would be more uncertainty and from your polling people don't want that?

:41:18. > :41:21.Not at the moment but there is no alternative options set out at the

:41:22. > :41:23.moment so it's a potential area for leadership but you can't lead if

:41:24. > :41:27.no-one knows what you stand for. So, Tim Farron will get to his feet

:41:28. > :41:30.in just a few minutes now. Before he makes that

:41:31. > :41:32.big conference speech, let's just remind ourselves

:41:33. > :41:35.of what the Lib Dem leader has been We paid a heavy price

:41:36. > :41:39.for our time in government, The Lib Dem leader has just been to

:41:40. > :41:51.see the migrant crisis first-hand. Tim Farron has got his first

:41:52. > :41:55.question to the Prime Minister Will he agree with the Save

:41:56. > :42:02.the Children plea that we take as a country 3000 vulnerable

:42:03. > :42:04.unaccompanied children in Europe, some of whom are

:42:05. > :42:07.as young as six? He may have lied to have influenced

:42:08. > :42:19.the election, but today Alistair Carmichael was cleared

:42:20. > :42:23.of breaking the law. However irritating

:42:24. > :42:30.the honourable gentleman... LAUGHTER ..May be to government

:42:31. > :42:36.backbenchers, he has I am fantastically grateful to you,

:42:37. > :42:45.Mr Speaker. # Jump to the beat

:42:46. > :42:52.of the party line... The decision taken in 1975 by this

:42:53. > :43:02.country to join the Common I am, frankly, utterly

:43:03. > :43:07.gutted and heartbroken. The way my teacher told me

:43:08. > :43:43.to do it, is imagine We were talking about the polls, the

:43:44. > :43:47.Lib Dems trying to redefine themselves post-re-election. What

:43:48. > :43:52.are the views about their legacy, if anything, in Government? The general

:43:53. > :43:55.public and among their lost supporters, there's really no

:43:56. > :43:57.overwhelming view one way or the other about whether it was good, bad

:43:58. > :44:01.or whether they had influence or not. 85% of the current supporters

:44:02. > :44:04.believe that actually they were good and they did have a positive

:44:05. > :44:09.influence on Government so it's quite a difference between the old

:44:10. > :44:11.and the new. Right, so the old supporters of the Liberal Democrats

:44:12. > :44:17.thought they didn't make much difference at all, Polly, that must

:44:18. > :44:20.be a bit of a blow to those left? It is and I think it's perfectly

:44:21. > :44:24.obvious that during the years in coalition we didn't effectively tell

:44:25. > :44:28.the story about the impact we were having and the problem is that now

:44:29. > :44:31.the Liberal Democrats have left Government and the Conservative

:44:32. > :44:34.Party did then lurch off to the right and take us out of Europe and

:44:35. > :44:39.do all sorts of disastrous things and basically mess up the country,

:44:40. > :44:44.we are too small to be heard saying "I told you so", plus of course I

:44:45. > :44:48.told you so has never been the most effective political campaign state.

:44:49. > :44:53.Straight over to Brighton. There is Mr Farron taking to the stage. He's

:44:54. > :44:57.only been leader for one year. This is his second address at a

:44:58. > :45:01.conference and he'll be hoping to reassure them and cut through to the

:45:02. > :45:03.wider public and give himself a bigger profile with voters in

:45:04. > :45:08.January. He begins.

:45:09. > :45:15.Thank you very much. You might have worked this out for yourselves, but

:45:16. > :45:22.I'm now the longest serving leader of a UK wide but vertical party! I

:45:23. > :45:33.have seen off all the heavyweights, Cameron, Farage, Natalie Bennett!

:45:34. > :45:38.Roy Hodgson. Mel and Sue. Liberal Democrats are good at lots of

:45:39. > :45:47.things. The thing that we are best that is con founding expectations.

:45:48. > :45:52.We were expected to shy away from taking power, but we stepped up and

:45:53. > :45:57.we made a difference. We were expected to disappear after the 20

:45:58. > :45:58.15th election but we bounced back and are almost twice the size we

:45:59. > :46:15.were then. I have been doing a bit of

:46:16. > :46:25.confounding expectations myself. You see, I am a white, nor

:46:26. > :46:31.working-class, middle-aged bloke. According to polling experts, I

:46:32. > :46:36.should have voted to leave. May I assure you that I didn't. But mates

:46:37. > :46:44.of mine did, people in my family did. I spent most of my adult life,

:46:45. > :46:55.working and raising a family and West Midlands. I am massively proud

:46:56. > :46:59.-- in Westmorland. But I was born a few miles south in Preston. I was

:47:00. > :47:02.raised in a family with not much money around, at a time when it

:47:03. > :47:07.seemed to me the Thatcher government was determined to put every adult I

:47:08. > :47:12.knew out of work and on the scrapheap. But our people and our

:47:13. > :47:16.community were not for breaking. The great city of Preston is a

:47:17. > :47:20.no-nonsense place, proud of its history and ambitious about its

:47:21. > :47:25.future. It's the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, it is the

:47:26. > :47:28.place where Cromwell won the most important battle in the English

:47:29. > :47:33.Civil War, the complacent establishment stuffed by the

:47:34. > :47:38.outsiders. And that links rather neatly, I'm afraid, to the

:47:39. > :47:45.referendum. Preston voted 53% to leave. Some places in Lancashire two

:47:46. > :47:49.thirds of people voted out. I respect those people. If you forgive

:47:50. > :47:53.me, they are my people. If they will forgive me, I'm still utterly

:47:54. > :48:04.convinced Britain should remain in Europe. APPLAUSE

:48:05. > :48:10.I was convinced on the 23rd of June. I am today. I will continue to be.

:48:11. > :48:18.Not because I'm some starry eyed pro-European with Ode to Joy as my

:48:19. > :48:24.ring tone. We all know what I have is my ring tone. But I'm a patriot.

:48:25. > :48:29.We believe it's in our national interest to be in, for more jobs,

:48:30. > :48:37.lower prices, stop climate change, catch terrorism, to stand tall and

:48:38. > :48:42.to matter, and because I believe that Britain is an open, tolerant

:48:43. > :48:53.country, the opposite of the bleak vision of Nigel Farage and Boris

:48:54. > :48:58.Johnson. APPLAUSE Britain did not become Great Britain

:48:59. > :49:03.on fear, isolation and division, and there is no country called Little

:49:04. > :49:10.Britain. There is nothing so dangerous and narrow as nationalism

:49:11. > :49:19.and cheap identity politics. But there is nothing wrong with

:49:20. > :49:23.identity. I am very proud of mine. I'm a Lancastrian, a northerner, ie

:49:24. > :49:29.in English, British, I am European, all of those things. None of them

:49:30. > :49:31.contradict each other, and no campaign of lies and fear will rob

:49:32. > :49:50.me of who I am. But we lost. We lost, didn't we? I

:49:51. > :49:54.was born and raised in Preston, but the football mad half of my family

:49:55. > :50:03.is from Blackburn, so I make Rovers fan. Defeat and disappointment is in

:50:04. > :50:09.my blood! Those who say I'm a bad loser are quite wrong. I'm a great

:50:10. > :50:15.loser, I've had loads of practice. But the referendum result to me was

:50:16. > :50:18.like a bereavement. I was devastated, I am devastated. We

:50:19. > :50:25.Liberal Democrats worked harder than anyone else in that campaign. We put

:50:26. > :50:30.blood, sweat and tears into it. We put the positive case for Europe

:50:31. > :50:33.while Cameron and Osborne churned out dry statistics, fear mongering

:50:34. > :50:38.and shallow platitudes. It's easy to say after such a now world

:50:39. > :50:42.referendum result that we are a divided and true. -- a narrow

:50:43. > :50:49.referendum result. In ways we are, but a split between believers and

:50:50. > :50:56.Remainers is a manifestation of that. Written today, has too much

:50:57. > :51:00.wealth concentrated in some parts of the country and too little in

:51:01. > :51:05.others. -- Britain today. A few weeks after the referendum I went

:51:06. > :51:11.back to Preston and we booked Saint Wilfrid's Church Hall of the Fisher

:51:12. > :51:14.gate for a public meeting. When my office booked the place they didn't

:51:15. > :51:20.know it meant something quite deeply to me personally. The last time I

:51:21. > :51:23.was in that church, I was therefore my grandmother's funeral ten years

:51:24. > :51:30.ago. The last time I walked out of it was as a pallbearer. I was in a

:51:31. > :51:35.reflective mood when I began the meeting. There were perhaps 70 or 80

:51:36. > :51:41.people there. Most of them had voted to leave. Most of them pretty much

:51:42. > :51:45.fitted my demographic. They weren't mostly diehards. I honestly reckon

:51:46. > :51:49.about three quarters of them could have been persuaded to vote for

:51:50. > :51:53.remain up until two or three weeks out. One guy said that the clincher

:51:54. > :51:59.for him was George Osborne's punishment budget. When he said

:52:00. > :52:02.that, pretty much the whole room chipped in and agreed. There was

:52:03. > :52:07.near universal acknowledgement that this had been a pivotal moment. Here

:52:08. > :52:12.was this guy, George Osborne, who they didn't really like, and who

:52:13. > :52:15.they felt didn't really like them, and he appeared on the telly and

:52:16. > :52:21.bullied them into doing something they weren't sure they wanted to do

:52:22. > :52:25.and they reacted. If you base your political strategy on divide and

:52:26. > :52:34.rule, don't be surprised if the people you have divided decides to

:52:35. > :52:39.give you a kicking. So I don't blame the people in that church hall for

:52:40. > :52:43.their anger. Actually, I share it. I am angry, and I'm angry at the

:52:44. > :52:47.calculating forces of darkness who care nothing for the working people

:52:48. > :52:52.of this country, nothing for our NHS, nothing for those who struggle

:52:53. > :52:58.to get by, and exploited that anger to win an exit from Europe that will

:52:59. > :53:06.hurt the poorest the hardest. APPLAUSE

:53:07. > :53:10.The people in that church hall in Preston had voted differently to me,

:53:11. > :53:15.but I thought, we are on the same side here. We see a London centric,

:53:16. > :53:23.no, Westminster and Whitehall centric approach and the media

:53:24. > :53:29.treating the provinces as alien places. Those people in Preston and

:53:30. > :53:32.Sunderland see the divide between win and lose. When the country is

:53:33. > :53:36.booming they do not see the benefit and when the country is declining

:53:37. > :53:41.they are the first hit. At the meeting they talked about low wages,

:53:42. > :53:46.poor housing, strained hospitals and schools. Their problems were not

:53:47. > :53:50.caused by the European Union. They were caused by powerful people who

:53:51. > :53:53.took them for granted. By politicians who have spent decades

:53:54. > :53:57.chasing cheap headlines and short-term success for their own

:53:58. > :54:07.political careers and never acting in a long-term interests of the

:54:08. > :54:13.whole country. APPLAUSE So, those people in that room, like

:54:14. > :54:18.millions of others, wanted, quite understandably, to give the powerful

:54:19. > :54:22.a kicking, so they did. I wanted Britain to remain in the European

:54:23. > :54:27.Union and I still do, but we have got to listen. To learn and

:54:28. > :54:31.understand why millions of people voted to leave. We can't just tell

:54:32. > :54:35.them they are wrong and stick our fingers in our ears. I wanted two

:54:36. > :54:43.things, I want to persuade those who voted leave that we understand and

:54:44. > :54:45.respect their reasons and we are determined to take head-on the

:54:46. > :54:47.things about today's Britain that have left so many people feeling

:54:48. > :54:59.ignored, and I want to give them their say over what comes next.

:55:00. > :55:07.APPLAUSE So, Theresa May says Brexit means

:55:08. > :55:14.Brexit. Well, thanks for clearing that up. Absolute genius. Nearly

:55:15. > :55:19.three months since the referendum and we have a government with new

:55:20. > :55:26.departments, new titles, a new Prime Minister, but no plan, no vision. No

:55:27. > :55:30.clue, and no leadership. Theresa May did so little in the remain

:55:31. > :55:40.campaign, that she actually made it look like Jeremy Corbyn pulled a

:55:41. > :55:44.shift. And today, the absence of leadership from the Prime Minister

:55:45. > :55:48.is astonishing. The absence of clarity as to what will happen to

:55:49. > :55:52.our country is a disgrace. Three months on, it's not good enough to

:55:53. > :55:57.have brainstorming sessions at Chequers while investment and jobs

:55:58. > :56:01.steadily lead away. While our standing and relevance in the world

:56:02. > :56:05.diminishes in direct proportion to the number of foreign visits by

:56:06. > :56:09.Boris Johnson. While British industry is crying out for

:56:10. > :56:13.direction, for certainty, for any idea of what lies ahead, make no

:56:14. > :56:18.mistake, the Conservative Party has now lost the right to call itself

:56:19. > :56:20.the party of business. It has lost the right to call itself the party

:56:21. > :56:37.of the free market. APPLAUSE The Conservative Party no longer

:56:38. > :56:42.supports business, no longer understands the need for calm,

:56:43. > :56:44.economic pragmatism, but instead pursues the Nationalists,

:56:45. > :56:49.protectionist fantasies of the Brexit fundamentalists who have won

:56:50. > :56:54.the day. Our message to any business in this country large or small is

:56:55. > :57:02.this. If you are backing today's Conservative Party, you are funding

:57:03. > :57:10.your own funeral. APPLAUSE There is now only one party that

:57:11. > :57:14.believes in British business, large and small, that believes in

:57:15. > :57:18.entrepreneurship and innovation, and that is the Liberal Democrats. We

:57:19. > :57:32.are the free market, free trade, pro-business party now. APPLAUSE

:57:33. > :57:37.So, Theresa May, please tell us what Brexit really means. You've had

:57:38. > :57:46.three months. You are the Prime Minister, stop dithering. What is

:57:47. > :57:52.your plan? The Liberal Democrats have a plan. We know what we want,

:57:53. > :57:56.and we know where we want to take our country. When Theresa May does

:57:57. > :58:03.agree a deal with the European Union, we want the people to decide.

:58:04. > :58:07.Not a rerun of the referendum, not a second referendum, but a referendum

:58:08. > :58:12.on the terms of the as yet unknown Brexit deal. And if the Tories say,

:58:13. > :58:23.we've had enough referendums, I would say, you started it! APPLAUSE

:58:24. > :58:28.We had a democratic vote in June. We can't start this process with

:58:29. > :58:32.democracy and end it with a stitch up. If we trusted the people to vote

:58:33. > :58:33.for departure, then we must trust the people to vote for the

:58:34. > :58:52.destination. Millions of people have not been

:58:53. > :58:56.well served by generations of politicians who put their own

:58:57. > :59:00.short-term political needs before the long-term interests of the

:59:01. > :59:06.people they were supposed to be serving, and politics is about

:59:07. > :59:11.service. David Cameron's handling of our relationship with Europe is a

:59:12. > :59:16.masterclass in selfish, shallow short termism, party before country

:59:17. > :59:20.at every turn. The Conservative Party risked our country's very

:59:21. > :59:24.future and the life chances of millions of young people, all in a

:59:25. > :59:30.failed attempt to unite their fractured party. David Cameron

:59:31. > :59:35.risked our future and he lost. And while he waltzes off to riches and

:59:36. > :59:38.retirement, our country is plunged into economic uncertainty,

:59:39. > :59:42.insecurity and irrelevance on the world stage. The Tories took the

:59:43. > :59:51.gamble but Britain will pay the price, what an absolute disgrace!

:59:52. > :00:03.But their short termism does not stop with Brexit. Look at their

:00:04. > :00:07.handling of the refugee crisis. The biggest crisis facing our continent

:00:08. > :00:14.since the Second World War. They did nothing to help right until the

:00:15. > :00:20.point that they thought it was in their short-term interest to act.

:00:21. > :00:25.When the photograph of the body of three-year-old Alan Kurdi facedown

:00:26. > :00:29.in the sand was on the front page of every newspaper. The people were

:00:30. > :00:34.shocked and heartbroken and they demanded action. And the Tories did

:00:35. > :00:40.bare minimum. But since then, the front pages have moved on and they

:00:41. > :00:45.have barely lifted a finger. There are some on the centre-left who are

:00:46. > :00:50.squeamish about patriotism. But not me. I am proud of my country, and I

:00:51. > :00:56.hate it when my country makes me ashamed. When I was on the island of

:00:57. > :01:01.Lesbos last year after we had helped to land a flimsy boat of desperate

:01:02. > :01:05.refugees, I was handing out bottles of fresh water alongside other

:01:06. > :01:09.volunteers. A few yards away was an aid worker from New Zealand who knew

:01:10. > :01:15.I was a British politician. And she looked at me and she shouted, "Stop

:01:16. > :01:25.handing out bottles of water and take some effing refugees because

:01:26. > :01:29.that is how Britain is seen as not pulling its weight." That might not

:01:30. > :01:32.bother some people, but it bothers me. Because I am proud of who we

:01:33. > :01:44.are. APPLAUSE.

:01:45. > :01:48.I am proud of Britain. We are always a sanctuary for the desperate, the

:01:49. > :01:54.abused and persecuted and I will not stand by and watch my country become

:01:55. > :01:56.smaller, meaner and selfish. That is not Britain, we are better than

:01:57. > :02:04.that. APPLAUSE.

:02:05. > :02:09.And a year on, a year on, the crisis is worse. It is not better. Not that

:02:10. > :02:13.you would ever know it. We don't see those desperate families in the

:02:14. > :02:16.media every day now. We aren't confronted so often with the

:02:17. > :02:22.knowledge that they are just like us and that they need our help. Much to

:02:23. > :02:26.the Government's delight, compassion fatigue's set in, the news has moved

:02:27. > :02:29.on. We have had Brexit, a new Prime Minister, a Labour Leadership

:02:30. > :02:34.contest and none of that maybes a blind bit of difference to a

:02:35. > :02:38.nine-year-old kid stuck alone and hungry and cold in a camp in

:02:39. > :02:41.northern Greece or to the family this morning fleeing their burning

:02:42. > :02:46.camp. The Government wants us to forget this crisis, it's too

:02:47. > :02:49.difficult to solve, too risky to take the lead, but we have not

:02:50. > :02:53.forgotten, we'll not forget. Those children could be our children, how

:02:54. > :03:23.dare the Government abandon them! APPLAUSE.

:03:24. > :03:28.But short-termism in politics goes back a lot further than just this

:03:29. > :03:34.Government. You've got to look at the way the Conservatives in the 80s

:03:35. > :03:37.and Labour in the 90s treated the banks, sucking up, deregulating,

:03:38. > :03:40.encouraging a culture of risk and greed. Instead of building an

:03:41. > :03:44.economy that served the long-term needs of the whole country, they put

:03:45. > :03:49.all their eggs in one basket - the banks. And for a while, things were

:03:50. > :03:52.good for Britain, Britain boomed. But they didn't invest in modern

:03:53. > :03:56.infrastructure that could benefit the North of England or Scotland or

:03:57. > :04:00.Wales or the Midlands or the south-west. They didn't invest in

:04:01. > :04:05.the skills the next generation would need. They didn't invest in our

:04:06. > :04:09.manufacturing base. All they did was allow the banks to take bigger and

:04:10. > :04:15.bigger risks, build up bigger and bigger lights. And when the banks

:04:16. > :04:21.failed, we were all left paying the price in lower wages and less jobs,

:04:22. > :04:25.cuts in Public Services. Short-term thinking, long-term consequences.

:04:26. > :04:28.And nowhere is this danger posed more by short-term thinking greater

:04:29. > :04:32.than with the future of our National Health Service.

:04:33. > :04:35.Can you remember a time when there were not reports on the news almost

:04:36. > :04:40.daily saying the National Health Service was in crisis? For years,

:04:41. > :04:42.politicians have chosen to paper over the cracks rather than come

:04:43. > :04:47.clean about what it will really take, what it will really cost, not

:04:48. > :04:52.just the keep the NHS afloat, but to give people the care and the

:04:53. > :04:56.treatment that they deserve and that means finally bringing the NHS and

:04:57. > :05:07.social care together. APPLAUSE.

:05:08. > :05:10.In my grandpa's journey through Alzheimer's, he had good care in the

:05:11. > :05:15.home he spent his last couple of years in. But when he first became

:05:16. > :05:22.ill, after the death of my grandma, the place he was put in was

:05:23. > :05:29.despicable. Lonely, unclean, uncaring. I can still smell it now.

:05:30. > :05:32.It's a few years back, but as I fought to get him out of that place

:05:33. > :05:36.and into somewhere better, it occurred to me that this was a

:05:37. > :05:39.standard experience for too many people and their loved ones. Maybe

:05:40. > :05:44.some people can shrug and accept this, but I can't. I've seen enough

:05:45. > :05:47.terrible old people's homes and enough people who've had to wait for

:05:48. > :05:52.ever for treatment, particularly people who don't have someone to

:05:53. > :05:55.fight their corner. It's not civilised to let people splip

:05:56. > :05:59.through the net or to watch the people who go out of their way to

:06:00. > :06:03.make their lives easier when everything else is making their

:06:04. > :06:09.lives harder. It's not civilised and it's not good enough. I worry about

:06:10. > :06:15.this, not just for the NHS in general, but if I'm honest, for

:06:16. > :06:22.myself and for my family. We are, if we are lucky, going to grow old. We

:06:23. > :06:30.know no matter what happens we'll be cared for with dignity and respect.

:06:31. > :06:33.William Beverage writen the blueprint saying that when people

:06:34. > :06:36.are living to the ages they are today, there is no doubt he would

:06:37. > :06:42.have proposed a national health and care service. He would have been

:06:43. > :06:45.appalled about the child who has to look at their disabled parent or the

:06:46. > :06:49.thousands of women across the country who're unable to work

:06:50. > :06:55.because they are disproportionately care-gives. Let's today decide to do

:06:56. > :06:56.what Beverage would do, let's create that national health and care

:06:57. > :07:10.service. APPLAUSE.

:07:11. > :07:15.And let's stop being complacent about our NHS. Of course, we have a

:07:16. > :07:19.brilliant NHS, best staff in the world, free care at the point of

:07:20. > :07:26.access, but we are spending far less on it every year than we need to. Of

:07:27. > :07:30.the 15 original EU countries, including Spain, Greece and

:07:31. > :07:35.Portugal, we rank behind them in 13th place when it comes to health

:07:36. > :07:39.spending. It would take tens of billions of pounds a year just to

:07:40. > :07:44.bring ourselves up to their average. It's not good enough. So we need to

:07:45. > :07:49.face the truth. The hard truth. That the NHS needs more money, a lot more

:07:50. > :07:53.money, not just to stop it lurching from crisis to crisis, but so that

:07:54. > :07:57.it can meet the needs and challenges it will face in the years ahead, so

:07:58. > :07:58.that it can be the service we all need for the long-term.

:07:59. > :08:09.APPLAUSE. Now, that means having the most

:08:10. > :08:15.frank and honest conversation about the NHS that the country has ever

:08:16. > :08:18.had, what Beverage did for the 20th century we must do for the 21st

:08:19. > :08:26.century. APPLAUSE.

:08:27. > :08:30.And in Norman Lamb, we have THE politician who is most trusted and

:08:31. > :08:32.respected by the health profession and deservedly so.

:08:33. > :08:44.CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. And, Norman and I are clear, we are

:08:45. > :08:48.not going to joining the ranks of those politicians who're too scared

:08:49. > :08:53.of losing votes to face up to what really needs to be done. We will go

:08:54. > :08:57.to the British people with the results of our Beverage Commission

:08:58. > :09:01.and we'll offer a new deal for health and social care, honest about

:09:02. > :09:06.the cost, bold about the solution and if the only way to fund a Health

:09:07. > :09:11.Service that meets the needs of everyone is to raise taxes, Liberal

:09:12. > :09:24.Democrats will raise taxes. APPLAUSE.

:09:25. > :09:32.Short-term thinking is the scourge of our education system too.

:09:33. > :09:36.Governments designed an education system, especially at primary school

:09:37. > :09:40.level that is focussed, not on developing young people for further

:09:41. > :09:44.life or study, but on getting them through the wrong kinds of tests.

:09:45. > :09:49.It's not about whether kids can solve problems or converse in other

:09:50. > :09:54.languages or even their own, it's about statistics, measurements,

:09:55. > :09:59.league tables, instead of building an education system we have built a

:10:00. > :10:03.quality assurance industry. It's no wonder so many teachers are

:10:04. > :10:07.frustrateded, no wonder so many leave the profession, parents

:10:08. > :10:12.deserve to know that their child's teacher is focussed on teaching.

:10:13. > :10:16.Teachers are professionally undervalued, driven towards meeting

:10:17. > :10:22.targets, instead of developing young minds and, as ever, it's the poorest

:10:23. > :10:29.kids who suffer the most. APPLAUSE.

:10:30. > :10:32.So in the last Government, we introduced a policy, a long-term

:10:33. > :10:38.policy to try and help the poorest kids keep up with their better off

:10:39. > :10:41.class mates, the pupil premium. This year, this school year, more than

:10:42. > :10:45.two million children will benefit from that Liberal Democrat policy

:10:46. > :10:51.and I am so proud. APPLAUSE.

:10:52. > :10:55.I am so proud of that and I am so proud of Kirsty Williams who's

:10:56. > :10:59.making a real difference every day to the lives of children across

:11:00. > :11:03.Wales, the pupil premium is not safe in Tory hands but it's safe in

:11:04. > :11:06.Kirsty's. What's more, she has doubled it. That is what happens

:11:07. > :11:21.when you get into power. But we need to do so very much more.

:11:22. > :11:25.I talk a lot about opportunity, about breaking down the barriers

:11:26. > :11:28.that hold people back and nowhere is that more important than in

:11:29. > :11:33.education. I want our schools to be places where our teachers have the

:11:34. > :11:37.freedom to use their skill and their knowledge to open young minds, not

:11:38. > :11:42.just train them to pass tests. I want them to be places where

:11:43. > :11:46.children are inspired to learn, not stressed out by those tests. So I

:11:47. > :11:51.want to end the current system of SATs in primary schools that are a

:11:52. > :11:55.distraction from the real education, the professional teachers want to

:11:56. > :12:00.give their children, that weigh heavily on children as young as six

:12:01. > :12:05.and add nothing to the breadth of their learning. What are we doing

:12:06. > :12:11.wasting our children's education and teacher's talents on ticking the

:12:12. > :12:14.boxes. What are we doing in 2016? Threatening to relegate 80% of our

:12:15. > :12:16.children to education Second Division by returning to the

:12:17. > :12:26.11-plus. APPLAUSE.

:12:27. > :12:34.I mean, every child wants to send their kids to a good school, every

:12:35. > :12:39.parent wants their kid... You know what I mean. Every child wants their

:12:40. > :12:44.parent to be sent to school - that's probably right in my case. But every

:12:45. > :12:47.parent thinks the same too. But, you know, selective schools are not the

:12:48. > :12:53.answer for either of us. We need better schools for all our children,

:12:54. > :12:58.not just those who can pass an exam at the age of 11. We can't just

:12:59. > :13:04.leave children behind. Over the last 40 years, millions of children, me

:13:05. > :13:07.included back in the day, have been liberated by comprehensive education

:13:08. > :13:13.APPLAUSE. APPLAUSE.

:13:14. > :13:17.Those kids probably including me, would have been Consigned to second

:13:18. > :13:22.class status in a secondary modern and it's important for us to

:13:23. > :13:31.remember who made that happen. It was Shirley Williams. It was Shirley

:13:32. > :13:35.Williams. Let's be clear, let's be very clear. For us, defending

:13:36. > :13:40.education for all is not just about being liberal, it's person. Shirley,

:13:41. > :13:47.we will defend your legacy. APPLAUSE.

:13:48. > :13:53.I mean, assessment is vital, exams are actually important, but let's

:13:54. > :13:57.have assessment that leads to a love of learning and a breadth of

:13:58. > :14:02.learning that is relevant to what children will need next at school

:14:03. > :14:06.and in their future as adults. There is nothing more long-term than the

:14:07. > :14:12.education of a child that stays with them for their entire life. So let's

:14:13. > :14:14.end the box-ticking, let's teach our children and let's trust our

:14:15. > :14:26.teachers. APPLAUSE.

:14:27. > :14:37.Now, one thing you cannot accuse Jeremy Corbyn of is short-term

:14:38. > :14:40.thinking. His lot have waited over 100 years for this. Finally they

:14:41. > :14:44.have taken over the Labour Party and, like all good Marxists, they

:14:45. > :14:51.have seized the means of production, they have even seized the nurseries

:14:52. > :15:01.too. Opening branches of Momentum kids, otherwise known as child

:15:02. > :15:05.labour. Or my particular favourite, Tiny Trots.

:15:06. > :15:11.I mean, we shouldn't laugh. The Liberal Democrats have never had any

:15:12. > :15:15.trouble with entryists, unless you include the Quakers. My problem with

:15:16. > :15:20.Jeremy Corbyn is nothing personal. After all, I used to see him quite a

:15:21. > :15:24.lot in the Blair years, he was always in the lobby.

:15:25. > :15:28.LAUGHTER. But my problem with core someone

:15:29. > :15:33.that for him, holding the Government to account is not a priority.

:15:34. > :15:38.Winning elections is a distraction, unless it's his own leadership

:15:39. > :15:42.election. It's baffling to see. The Labour Party argue about whether or

:15:43. > :15:46.not they could even be trying to win the election. Can you imagine that?

:15:47. > :15:51.The Liberals and Liberal Democrats spent decades out of power and then,

:15:52. > :15:53.when the opportunity finally came, it incredibly difficult

:15:54. > :15:58.circumstances, when the easiest thing in the world would have been

:15:59. > :16:02.to walk away, we chose to take power because we knew the point of

:16:03. > :16:07.politics is to put principles into action, to get things done, not just

:16:08. > :16:14.to feel good, but to do good. So we took power and we got crushed so you

:16:15. > :16:15.could forgive us for thinking twice about whether power is really worth

:16:16. > :16:25.it. But of course it's worth it. Having

:16:26. > :16:29.fine principles but no power is just turning your back some people who

:16:30. > :16:35.need you the most, and letting someone else win the day. We have

:16:36. > :16:39.huge crises in Britain today, in our NHS, the economy, in our

:16:40. > :16:43.relationship with the rest of the world, we have a Tory government to

:16:44. > :16:48.got less than a of the electorate supporting them at the last

:16:49. > :16:51.election, a Prime Minister that nobody has elected plunging our

:16:52. > :16:57.country into chaos. They spent a year going after the working poor,

:16:58. > :17:00.refugees and junior doctors. And the Labour Party have been going for

:17:01. > :17:05.each other. Instead of standing up to the Conservatives they were

:17:06. > :17:08.sitting on the floor of half empty Virgin Trains. Maybe Jeremy Corbyn

:17:09. > :17:11.thinks there are more important things than winning elections but

:17:12. > :17:16.for millions of people desperate for an affordable home, a fair wage and

:17:17. > :17:29.properly funded NHS, they can't wait. How dare the official

:17:30. > :17:35.opposition abandon them. APPLAUSE Which ever party you support it at

:17:36. > :17:40.the last election, we all know that Britain needs a decent and united

:17:41. > :17:44.opposition. So if Corbyn's Labour has left the stage, then we will

:17:45. > :17:48.take the stage. People say to me this is a great opportunity for the

:17:49. > :17:53.Liberal Democrats, but this is more than opportunity, its duty. Britain

:17:54. > :18:06.needs a strong opposition and the Liberal Democrats will be that

:18:07. > :18:11.strong opposition. APPLAUSE Do you ever listened to these Labour

:18:12. > :18:16.people arguing among themselves, throwing around the word Blairite as

:18:17. > :18:22.if it's the most offensive insult. I hear some Carr momentum folk

:18:23. > :18:37.referring to Gordon Brown as a Blairite! I'm pretty sure he's a

:18:38. > :18:43.brown -- Brownite. I am not a Blairite. I was very proud to march

:18:44. > :18:48.against his illegal invasion of Iraq, I was incredibly proud to

:18:49. > :18:52.stand with Charles Kennedy, and I was incredibly proud this summer

:18:53. > :18:59.when Charles' brave stance was vindicated in a Chilcot Report. I

:19:00. > :19:04.was all so proud to be in the party that stood up against his

:19:05. > :19:08.government's attempts to stamp on our civil liberties, from compulsory

:19:09. > :19:14.ID cards, to 90 days detention without charge. And I was proud of

:19:15. > :19:17.Vince Cable as he called out Tony Blair's government 's deregulation

:19:18. > :19:25.of the banks. But there is more to Tony Blair's legacy than that. I

:19:26. > :19:34.kind of see Tony Blair the way I see the Stone Roses. I preferred the

:19:35. > :19:40.early work. Tony Blair's government gave us the national minimum wage.

:19:41. > :19:44.It gave us working tax credits. It gave us NHS investment and a massive

:19:45. > :19:49.school building programme. I disagreed with him a lot, but I will

:19:50. > :19:54.not criticise him for those things. I admire him for those things. And I

:19:55. > :19:58.respect him for believing that the point of being in politics is to get

:19:59. > :20:02.stuff done. And you can only get stuff done if you win, otherwise you

:20:03. > :20:09.are letting your opponent get stuff done instead. The crowd in Corbyn's

:20:10. > :20:13.ranks like to talk in terms of loyalty and betrayal, but there is

:20:14. > :20:15.no surer way to betray the people you represent and to let your

:20:16. > :20:31.opponents win. So I believe in working across party

:20:32. > :20:38.lines. I am prepared to work with people of all parties and none if it

:20:39. > :20:41.will make people's lives better. But I couldn't work with Jeremy Corbyn,

:20:42. > :20:45.because Jeremy Corbyn would never work with me. I wanted to work with

:20:46. > :20:50.him during the referendum campaign, but he would not share a platform.

:20:51. > :20:55.Splendid isolation was more important to him than joining the

:20:56. > :20:59.fight to save our country. Labour is having its leadership contest in a

:21:00. > :21:05.few days' time. Maybe Jeremy Corbyn will not be their leader, in which

:21:06. > :21:11.case it will be Owen Smith. I don't know Owen Smith all that well. But

:21:12. > :21:16.unlike Jeremy Corbyn, he's certainly on our side of the European debate.

:21:17. > :21:21.So if Owen Smith wins, I want to make it very clear that I'm open to

:21:22. > :21:25.working together. And there are others I could work with, too. There

:21:26. > :21:30.is another contest happening out, you might have noticed, it's for the

:21:31. > :21:34.chair of the home affairs select committee. It's an important post,

:21:35. > :21:40.but with no offence, let's face it, it's kind of a retirement job. Among

:21:41. > :21:45.the contenders are Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint and Chuka Umunna.

:21:46. > :21:50.These are Premier League people. Shouldn't that be the Labour

:21:51. > :21:54.leadership contest? What are these people doing jostling for position

:21:55. > :21:58.in a sideshow? They should be centre stage. The government need an

:21:59. > :22:01.opposition and that means Progressives should be prepared to

:22:02. > :22:14.put differences aside in order to hold them to account. APPLAUSE

:22:15. > :22:19.But if Jeremy Corbyn does win, where does that leave us? A Conservative,

:22:20. > :22:25.Brexit government, and without us to restrain them, they are showing

:22:26. > :22:30.their true colours. Reckless, divisive, uncaring, prepared to risk

:22:31. > :22:32.our future prosperity for their own short-term gain. And a Labour Party

:22:33. > :22:38.that has forgotten the people it's there to stand up for. Hopelessly

:22:39. > :22:43.divided, blatantly unfit for government with no plan for the

:22:44. > :22:46.economy or their country, and led by a man obsessed with refighting the

:22:47. > :22:52.battles of the past and ignoring the damage this government is doing to

:22:53. > :22:56.our future. And therefore there is a hole in the centre of British

:22:57. > :23:01.politics right now, a huge opportunity for a party that will

:23:02. > :23:05.stand up for an open, tolerant and united Britain. There is a hole in

:23:06. > :23:10.the centre of British politics right now for a rallying point, for people

:23:11. > :23:16.who believe in the politics of reason, evidence and moderation, who

:23:17. > :23:19.want fact, not fear, who want responsibility and not recklessness.

:23:20. > :23:23.Who want to believe somebody is looking out for the long-term good

:23:24. > :23:31.of our country. There is a hole in the centre of British politics right

:23:32. > :23:33.now that is crying out to be filled by a real opposition, so we will

:23:34. > :23:37.stand up to the Conservative Brexit government. If Labour will not be

:23:38. > :23:51.the opposition Britain needs, then we will. APPLAUSE

:23:52. > :24:01.And that, that is what we are fighting for. A Britain that is

:24:02. > :24:07.open, tolerant and united. And we will only build that Britain if we

:24:08. > :24:11.win. So here is my plan. We will dramatically rebuild our strength in

:24:12. > :24:16.local government deliberately, passionately, effectively. Winning

:24:17. > :24:20.council seat is our chance to shape, lead and serve our communities and

:24:21. > :24:24.put liberalism into practice. Liberals believe in local

:24:25. > :24:27.government, I believe in local government and every council seat

:24:28. > :24:32.matters to me. My challenge to you is to pick a ward and win it. My

:24:33. > :24:36.commitment to you is that I choose to build our party's revival on

:24:37. > :24:47.victories in every council in this country. APPLAUSE

:24:48. > :24:52.And my plan includes growing, continuing to grow our membership.

:24:53. > :24:56.Our party has grown 80% in just 14 months. But that is merely a staging

:24:57. > :25:01.post. We will continue to build a movement that can win at every

:25:02. > :25:03.level. I will lead the Liberal Democrats as the only party

:25:04. > :25:09.committed to Britain in Europe with a plan to let the people decide our

:25:10. > :25:14.future in a referendum on the as yet nonexistent Tory Brexit deal. I will

:25:15. > :25:21.lead the only party with a plan for our country's longer-term future,

:25:22. > :25:25.green, healthy, well educated, outward looking, prosperous and

:25:26. > :25:29.secure. I will build the open, United and tolerant party that can

:25:30. > :25:33.be the opposition to this Conservative government. On NHS

:25:34. > :25:35.underfunding, on divisive grammar schools, on attacks on British

:25:36. > :25:39.business, I want the Liberal Democrats to be ready to fill the

:25:40. > :25:49.gap where an official opposition to be. I want the Liberal Democrats to

:25:50. > :25:57.be a strong, united opposition. APPLAUSE

:25:58. > :26:03.I want us to be audacious, ambitious and accept the call of history. A

:26:04. > :26:07.century ago, the Liberals lost touch with their purpose and voters and

:26:08. > :26:13.Labour took their chance and became Britain's largest Progressive party.

:26:14. > :26:18.Today I want us utterly ready and determined to take our chance as the

:26:19. > :26:23.tectonic plates shift again. I do not accept the leadership of a party

:26:24. > :26:28.so we can look on for the sidelines. I did it because our destiny is to

:26:29. > :26:32.once again become one of the great parties of government. To be the

:26:33. > :26:36.place where liberals and progressives of all kinds gather to

:26:37. > :26:40.provide be strong opposition that this country needs. That is my plan

:26:41. > :26:55.and I need you to join me to fight for it. Let's be clear... APPLAUSE

:26:56. > :27:01.Let's be clear, we are talking about doing a Justin Trudeau. He is better

:27:02. > :27:07.looking than me and he's got a tattoo. I can fix one of those

:27:08. > :27:12.things if you insist. LAUGHTER I would not get into a boxing ring

:27:13. > :27:20.with him, but I reckon I can have him in a fell race. But the point

:27:21. > :27:23.is, Trudeau's liberals wept over an inadequate opposition to defeat a

:27:24. > :27:33.right-wing Conservative government. -- leapt over. Do you fancy doing

:27:34. > :27:39.that, because I do. You know what, there are some people who will say,

:27:40. > :27:43.steady on, you only have eight MPs. Maybe for the time being some might

:27:44. > :27:48.be sceptical about stealing gay Trudeau, but let's definitely agree

:27:49. > :27:54.that we can and Ashdown to take this party from a handful of seats to

:27:55. > :28:02.dozens of seats. -- sceptical about doing a Trudeau. Nobody believes,

:28:03. > :28:06.whether boundary changes happen or not, that's Labour will gain a

:28:07. > :28:11.single seat from the Tories. Mathematically, the SNP can only

:28:12. > :28:17.take one seat off the Tories. But there are dozens of Tory seats in

:28:18. > :28:20.our reach, which means the only thing standing between the

:28:21. > :28:24.Conservatives and a majority at the next election is the revival of the

:28:25. > :28:39.Liberal Democrats, so let's make it happen. APPLAUSE

:28:40. > :28:44.And we have to make it happen. Because there is a new battle

:28:45. > :28:50.emerging here and across the whole western world, between the forces of

:28:51. > :28:53.tolerant liberalism and intolerant, close minded nationalism. Top of all

:28:54. > :29:00.the things that oppressed me the morning after the referendum, --

:29:01. > :29:06.that depressed me. Was seeing Nigel Farage. Here was a man who pandered

:29:07. > :29:11.to our worst instincts, fear, suspicion of others, and he's not

:29:12. > :29:15.alone. His victory was welcomed by Marine Le Pen in France, and

:29:16. > :29:21.nationalists and populist all over Europe. In a few weeks he went from

:29:22. > :29:26.standing in front of that odious breaking point poster, demonising

:29:27. > :29:33.desperate refugees, to standing on a podium in Mississippi next Donald

:29:34. > :29:36.Trump. Make no mistake, Farage's victory is becoming the government's

:29:37. > :29:41.agenda. When the government talks about a hard Brexit, that's what

:29:42. > :29:45.they mean, a Brexit that cuts as from our neighbours, no matter the

:29:46. > :29:48.consequence for people's jobs and livelihoods. A Brexit at toys with

:29:49. > :29:54.the lives of hard-working people who have made Britain their home, paid

:29:55. > :29:57.their way, immerse themselves in our communities. Just more than a

:29:58. > :30:05.million Brits have also made their homes on the continent. A Brexit

:30:06. > :30:08.that will leave is poorer, weaker and less able to protect ourselves,

:30:09. > :30:10.but we will not let Nigel Farage's vision for Britain win. To coin a

:30:11. > :30:30.phrase, I want my country back. To people who support Labour who

:30:31. > :30:34.look at the last election result and say, can I really take the risk of

:30:35. > :30:40.backing the Liberal Democrats, let me be blunt with you. The risk is

:30:41. > :30:47.for you to do nothing. In 20 years' time, we are going to all be asked

:30:48. > :30:51.by our kids when our NHS, our school system, our unity, as a country, has

:30:52. > :30:57.been impoverished by 20-odd years of Tory rule and when our economy's

:30:58. > :31:00.been relegated, our green industry crashed and our status diminished

:31:01. > :31:05.after two decades of isolation from Europe, we are going to be asked why

:31:06. > :31:09.did you let that happen, what did you do to try and stop it. You might

:31:10. > :31:14.explain, well we lost the referendum so we had to move on and live with

:31:15. > :31:19.it. Or you might explain, well I was in the Labour Party. Momentum

:31:20. > :31:23.destroyed it. But I couldn't bring myself to leave and back anybody

:31:24. > :31:27.else. They'll look at you and say, why didn't you even try, why did you

:31:28. > :31:31.let us limp out of Europe, why did you stick with a party that handed

:31:32. > :31:34.the Conservatives unlimited power and you will know then that you

:31:35. > :31:39.could have done something different, you could have joined us, you could

:31:40. > :31:42.have fought back, you could have taken a risk because joining the

:31:43. > :31:48.Liberal Democrats today, it is a risk, it is a big ask, but let me be

:31:49. > :31:52.very clear, as we stand on the edge of those two horrific realities,

:31:53. > :31:56.Brexit and a Tory stranglehold on Britain, the biggest risk is that

:31:57. > :32:14.you don't join us. APPLAUSE.

:32:15. > :32:19.Let's be absolutely certain of this reality. The only movement with the

:32:20. > :32:24.desire and the potential to stop the calamity of Brexit and the tragedy

:32:25. > :32:29.of a generation of Conservative majority rule is this movement, it

:32:30. > :32:32.is the Liberal Democrats, so you can despair if you want and accept the

:32:33. > :32:37.inevitability of a Tory Government for the next quarter of a century,

:32:38. > :32:42.or you can recognise that the Liberal Democrats can prevent that

:32:43. > :32:46.inevitability. That means you, it means us, together, together. We

:32:47. > :32:50.must fight to keep Britain open, tolerant and united together. The

:32:51. > :32:52.Liberal Democrats must be the real voice of opposition. Together, we

:32:53. > :33:05.must win. Thank you. STUDIO: Tim Farron finishes his

:33:06. > :33:09.second address as lead tore the Liberal Democrats Annual Conference.

:33:10. > :33:14.He spoke for just over 45 minutes under 50, he said he was convinced

:33:15. > :33:18.that despite the referendum, the UK should stay in the EU. He felt a

:33:19. > :33:23.sense oaf bereavement when the result of the referendum on the 23rd

:33:24. > :33:29.came through. He wants another referendum, once and if a deal a

:33:30. > :33:34.done and he says that if the Tories claim we have too many referendums,

:33:35. > :33:38.his answer is, you started it, to the Tories. There was a particularly

:33:39. > :33:43.passionate part of his speech when he spoke about his experience on the

:33:44. > :33:53.island of less boss and Greece, as the Syrian refugees were being

:33:54. > :33:56.washed ashore -- -- Lesbos. There was a clear implication that Britain

:33:57. > :34:00.should be doing more, particularly taking in more child refugees

:34:01. > :34:04.fleeing Syria. Big chunk of the speech on the National Health

:34:05. > :34:09.Service, indeed he wants a national health and care service yet to work

:34:10. > :34:13.out how to pay for that, but it's a work in progress and they are

:34:14. > :34:18.looking at various ways of taxing it. He's making his way through the

:34:19. > :34:25.hall now, getting applause from the party faithful and the odd hug. I

:34:26. > :34:28.said earlier nobody wants to hug Mr Farron, but of course that's only

:34:29. > :34:32.true outside the Lib Dem hall, plenty of the faithle happy to hug.

:34:33. > :34:36.He said the Lib Dems were a free market party which raised a few

:34:37. > :34:42.eyebrows. Nobody's sure what that means. He also said this was a

:34:43. > :34:47.country in chaos, again it's not quite clear what he means bicals

:34:48. > :34:51.yous. He did say, probably in a pitch to mod Ralls Labour voters or

:34:52. > :34:57.even MPs that although he'd been against Tony Blair on the Iraq war

:34:58. > :35:03.and other things, he admired a number of the domestic reforms that

:35:04. > :35:06.Mr Blair had done -- Moderals. There was praise for Tony Blair as regards

:35:07. > :35:12.that, probably the only time Mr Blair will get any praise in this

:35:13. > :35:18.Party Conference season of 2016. He said he wanted to work with other

:35:19. > :35:22.parties, but he'd attempted that during the referendum and Mr Corbyn

:35:23. > :35:34.had pushed him aside, couldn't find time to meet him. He talked about

:35:35. > :35:40.doing a Trudeau which means you lead the party and go straight into being

:35:41. > :35:45.a party of Government, which is what Trudeau Canadians have done, the

:35:46. > :35:48.Canadian Liberals have been long experienced in modern times of

:35:49. > :35:51.forming majority Governments which is not the case for the Liberal

:35:52. > :36:02.Democrats in modern times. He then went on to target a number of Tory

:36:03. > :36:07.seats. He Polly is still with us. What did you make of all that? You

:36:08. > :36:11.got a really strong sense of Tim as a human being. He's a nice guy,

:36:12. > :36:15.filled with emotion when talking about refugees, we heard a lot about

:36:16. > :36:18.his background growing up in Preston in Lancashire about his nan,

:36:19. > :36:23.grandpa, and he was clearly trying to communicate the sense that, he's

:36:24. > :36:27.somebody you can trust, who is very, very likeable and that's pretty

:36:28. > :36:30.absent actually amongst the other party's leaderships. He also went

:36:31. > :36:34.out of his way to say that he understood. He talked about going to

:36:35. > :36:39.this church in Preston where most of the people there had voted to leave

:36:40. > :36:43.the European Union. He understood and he wanted, although he didn't

:36:44. > :36:48.agree with them on that, he wanted to speak more for them. But it

:36:49. > :36:54.wasn't quite clear which way he would do that. There is an identity

:36:55. > :36:58.politics here that he's trying to communicate with those groups with.

:36:59. > :37:02.He is a white working class northern bloke and he, you know, is trying to

:37:03. > :37:07.build that narrative. He's trying to pull together a coalition here. As

:37:08. > :37:12.you said, he's talked about being a free market leader, trying to pull

:37:13. > :37:15.people who're disappointed by the Conservatives having now backing

:37:16. > :37:20.Brexit away from the Conservative Party, trying to draw people away

:37:21. > :37:24.from the Labour Party by talking about how much he respects some of

:37:25. > :37:28.the Blair legacy and trying to reach into the working class northern vote

:37:29. > :37:31.that the great disenfranchised people that we know backed Brexit.

:37:32. > :37:35.He's identify add coalition of people that, if you can unite them,

:37:36. > :37:40.will become a powerful electoral force. It involves the old Lib Dem

:37:41. > :37:47.trick of trying to face both ways at once, that you are trying to get

:37:48. > :37:51.disillusioned working class northern voters, probably Labour voters, you

:37:52. > :37:56.are going to try to get Tory votes to win Tory seats, so you mentioned

:37:57. > :37:59.the free market, the national health to try and get the northern Labour

:38:00. > :38:03.votes and you are going to try to get other Labour votes in the south.

:38:04. > :38:07.You are facing a number of ways. I mean he talked about the need for a

:38:08. > :38:13.national health and care service and that would involve more tax. Yes.

:38:14. > :38:17.But then he talks about being a free market party. What position did he

:38:18. > :38:22.take today that was free market? Well, he talked about the importance

:38:23. > :38:26.of free tread and the importance of remaining open to the European Union

:38:27. > :38:30.and to other countries and making sure that we were able to grow as an

:38:31. > :38:34.economy. But that is it, just free trade? Well, I think that's the most

:38:35. > :38:37.relevant question when we are thinking about economic growth at

:38:38. > :38:41.the moment given the context of Brexit. It makes sense to talk about

:38:42. > :38:48.our stance on trade. Are the Lib Dems in favour of the TTIP deal with

:38:49. > :38:51.the United States? I think it's a complicated deal. It's very much on

:38:52. > :38:55.the rocks. Lots of Lib Dems have backed it, though we have also

:38:56. > :38:59.talked about the need for scrutiny and a lot of detailed things

:39:00. > :39:05.including protection for the NHS to make sure that our taxpayer funded

:39:06. > :39:12.NHS isn't threatened. This comparison with the Canadians,

:39:13. > :39:18.with Mr Trudeau, if you know anything about Canadian politics, it

:39:19. > :39:24.doesn't hold, does it? I'm married to a Canadian. You will know it's

:39:25. > :39:28.not right though. We were discussing whether Justin Trudeau is handsome

:39:29. > :39:31.or not. He's not my taste. What I was meaning was, Trudeau first of

:39:32. > :39:40.all, is a famous name in Canadian politics. That's true. Mr Trudeau's

:39:41. > :39:44.party had been in power for big chunks of the post-war period. It

:39:45. > :39:48.was one of the major parties of Government or of opposition, that's

:39:49. > :39:55.not true of the Liberal Democrats. It is tr that Mr Trudeau's party

:39:56. > :39:59.went into bad times, but nothing like the bad times the Lib Dems

:40:00. > :40:03.faced, down to eight seats. As I say, if you know anything about

:40:04. > :40:08.Canadian politics, the comparison doesn't hold up? As Tim said in his

:40:09. > :40:12.speech, he knows that's incredibly ambitious. It's possible the dice

:40:13. > :40:15.will fall that way and there will be an opportunity for complete

:40:16. > :40:19.reversal. Under what circumstances would that happen? Never say never

:40:20. > :40:25.in British politics, I never thought Brexit could happen and look what

:40:26. > :40:32.happened to Labour in Scotland. It was surprising to see an entirely

:40:33. > :40:36.dominated Labour. So the Lib Dems are going to replace the

:40:37. > :40:39.Conservatives in the same way as the SNP has replaced Labour? I'm saying

:40:40. > :40:44.there are opportunity force the Lib Demes to grow, but let's be clear,

:40:45. > :40:49.what Tim said was, he knows that the Trudeau model is ambitious and what

:40:50. > :40:52.he's looking for is steady growth like Ashdown, perhaps doubling or

:40:53. > :40:55.trebling representations at the next election and hoping to grow from

:40:56. > :41:01.there. He was very passionate about the

:41:02. > :41:06.Syrian refugees, particularly the child refugees, he thinks we should

:41:07. > :41:16.do more. Do we have any idea what his policy on immigration is? If t

:41:17. > :41:21.European Union remaining free to Europe and being very open to

:41:22. > :41:26.refugees, wanting to open up. Refugees, as you know, is not an

:41:27. > :41:29.immigration policy, refugees is a different category, there's moral

:41:30. > :41:35.and legal obligations on refugees which I think is what you were

:41:36. > :41:38.saying we should meet. But on immigration, do we know what the Lib

:41:39. > :41:41.Dem policy is? On Europe, I think it's pretty clear that the Lib Dems

:41:42. > :41:45.would continue to back free movement. So no change there? No

:41:46. > :41:53.change there. And when it comes to... And on non-EU? Lib Dems have

:41:54. > :41:56.looked at the details of the policies the Conservatives have

:41:57. > :42:02.implemented, including for example on allowing spouses to come and

:42:03. > :42:08.consider that those are in fact too Draconian and if they are replicated

:42:09. > :42:13.for EU migrants in a Brexit environment, they could be

:42:14. > :42:17.incredibly damaging. Just to finish up on this, since he said he wanted

:42:18. > :42:22.to speak particularly for the people in this church which he seemed to be

:42:23. > :42:28.implying were northern working class people who'd voted against the EU or

:42:29. > :42:33.for whom immigration is a huge issue, his response in speaking for

:42:34. > :42:38.#24e78 them is to continue with the existing policy of free movement and

:42:39. > :42:42.to be more liberal than we currently are on non-EU immigration. In what

:42:43. > :42:46.way is that speaking for them? Lots of the concern about immigration is

:42:47. > :42:52.associated with pressure on Public Services. When you talk to people

:42:53. > :42:55.about it. Tim's making a big pitch for major investment in the NHS. So

:42:56. > :42:59.not changing the numbers, they could grow? No, but making sure that the

:43:00. > :43:01.Public Services grow to meet demand in a way that I think they haven't

:43:02. > :43:08.been able to. OK.

:43:09. > :43:12.We're joined now from Brighton by the Lib Dem president, Sal Brinton.

:43:13. > :43:20.Welcome to the Daily Politics. Give us your thoughts on the speech. Hi,

:43:21. > :43:23.Jo. It was inspirational. Tim has actually found a really strong voice

:43:24. > :43:28.about the role of the Liberal Democrats in the future, the place

:43:29. > :43:32.of the Liberal Democrats in politics today and absolutely been clear

:43:33. > :43:35.that, as Labour leave the place of opposition and the centre ground,

:43:36. > :43:41.that's exactly the place that we are going to take. Right. What makes you

:43:42. > :43:46.or Tim Farron think that the Liberal Democrats can be the official

:43:47. > :43:50.opposition with just eight MPs? Because our eight MPs are pulling an

:43:51. > :43:56.enormous amount of weight and the real problem, Jo, is not what we are

:43:57. > :43:59.doing, but people like Norman Lamb are making considerable impacts.

:44:00. > :44:03.He's well respected in the NHS on issues throughout Parliament and the

:44:04. > :44:07.wider world. It's about Labour abdicating their responsibility.

:44:08. > :44:11.There is a vacuum. Tim is saying, we may be few in number in the Commons

:44:12. > :44:14.we are much larger in the country and we are going to step up to the

:44:15. > :44:19.challenge. Who is listening to you? We are going to fight. But who is

:44:20. > :44:22.listening? Which voters are listening and in what way is Tim

:44:23. > :44:25.Farron cutting through to the wider public?

:44:26. > :44:30.We are beginning to see that already. We have by-election

:44:31. > :44:33.victories, increase in membership sinks the referendum with people

:44:34. > :44:37.making it clear they have come to Tim and the Liberal Democrats

:44:38. > :44:40.because we are open, pro-European, we are tolerant and what's more, we

:44:41. > :44:44.are probably the only united party around at the moment. Although

:44:45. > :44:48.Labour can boast the same sort of increase in numbers if not more in

:44:49. > :44:52.terms of membership. How long do you think it would take for you to get

:44:53. > :44:59.back to the position you were in in terms of numbers of MPs pre-2015?

:45:00. > :45:04.Anything is possible at future elections. Of course anything is

:45:05. > :45:08.possible, but... Tim was making the point, we are not going to jump

:45:09. > :45:13.straight back up into the high 60s, but we can look at dozens, possibly

:45:14. > :45:18.more, if other parties fracture. By 2020? More importantly, as Tim

:45:19. > :45:22.says... Jo, if we are the only party who is going to be fighting for

:45:23. > :45:27.investment in the NHS, for tackling this real problem about the division

:45:28. > :45:30.between health and social care that is absolutely dire at the moment,

:45:31. > :45:34.nobody else is stepping into that field. We have been talking about

:45:35. > :45:37.investment. Norman Lamb's commission is absolutely going to give a clear

:45:38. > :45:41.agenda about how it's going to happen, the Liberal Democrats are

:45:42. > :45:45.leading it and we will, if necessary, show where the extra

:45:46. > :45:50.investment's got to come to make that happen. You think that

:45:51. > :45:57.policy... The Liberal Democrats know that's a major issue for members of

:45:58. > :46:02.public. The current state of the NHS is absolutely vital to most voters

:46:03. > :46:08.and we are the only people who have a plan. OK, you have got evidence to

:46:09. > :46:12.show that the public is broadly in favour of paying higher taxes,

:46:13. > :46:16.Norman Lamb couldn't give me the exact figure but certainly a penny

:46:17. > :46:20.on national insurance to pay for the extra investment?

:46:21. > :46:25.One of the reasons he couldn't give the exact figure is because the

:46:26. > :46:29.commission hasn't concluded its work. When that is done, what we are

:46:30. > :46:33.saying is, if it requires extra investment and if it has to come

:46:34. > :46:37.through taxation, we as the Liberal Democrats need to make that

:46:38. > :46:42.investment. What's more, we hear from an awful lot of people that

:46:43. > :46:47.they would be prepared to pay a bit more in income tax to save the NHS.

:46:48. > :46:54.Tim Farron said in his speech that we are the free market, pro-trade

:46:55. > :46:59.business party now, are you advocating free trade in the NHS?

:47:00. > :47:03.No, not in the sense that the Conservatives mean. The free market

:47:04. > :47:09.was Tim talking about the single market. One of the great concerns

:47:10. > :47:12.the business world has had since the referendum is the Conservatives just

:47:13. > :47:19.walking away from the interests of business and the market in this

:47:20. > :47:24.country. It's very interesting that a senior businesswoman, Nicola

:47:25. > :47:28.Horlick, has joined the Liberal Democrats following Liam Fox's

:47:29. > :47:34.comments about business people being fat and lazy. We are very clear that

:47:35. > :47:38.Britain's businesses have benefited enormously from the single market

:47:39. > :47:42.and already trade elsewhere in the world and we will continue to

:47:43. > :47:45.support them in that. We recognise the importance to business to

:47:46. > :47:50.continuing trading in the European Union. You say you are the

:47:51. > :47:54.pro-business party and Tim Farron said the Prime Minister and

:47:55. > :48:00.conservative government has plunged our country into chaos. What the

:48:01. > :48:04.chaos, where is it? The chaos of, will we have a single market or not?

:48:05. > :48:12.Will we have free movement of labour or not? That's not chaos, it's a

:48:13. > :48:16.discussion. No, it's chaos. We have a large international firms saying

:48:17. > :48:21.that if they are not sure if there will be a signal market, that they

:48:22. > :48:25.want to retain businesses in the UK. Japanese car manufacturers,

:48:26. > :48:31.businesses in the city saying they are considering moving. That is the

:48:32. > :48:38.chaos now. But there are no figures or economic data, how does the chaos

:48:39. > :48:43.manifested itself there? It's too early for economic data, it's only

:48:44. > :48:47.three months since we left, however, we are continuing to get employment

:48:48. > :48:51.and productivity data. The moment to have large manufacturing industry

:48:52. > :48:55.saying that if Britain is going to remove itself from Europe, we will

:48:56. > :49:02.move our European HQ from Britain to Europe, that means we are likely to

:49:03. > :49:06.lose hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country. Until the

:49:07. > :49:09.manufacturers see exactly what the Brexit plans are from the

:49:10. > :49:14.government, but they are beginning to warm us up there is a problem. We

:49:15. > :49:19.are the only party still fighting for the single market and to have a

:49:20. > :49:23.place in it. It's vital for our business and foreign businesses

:49:24. > :49:27.based here to have access to that European single market. Tim Farron

:49:28. > :49:31.said it was the referendum and Conservative short termism that has

:49:32. > :49:35.landed the country in the chaos he talks about, but you want a second

:49:36. > :49:40.referendum, despite the fact you now think they are a bad idea. Part of

:49:41. > :49:46.the problem with the last referendum was that there was no detail on what

:49:47. > :49:50.was exactly going to happen. As we know, there were a lot of untruths

:49:51. > :49:55.and a lot of people that were absolutely nothing to do with the

:49:56. > :50:00.referendum used by the Leave campaign. Yes, people voted to

:50:01. > :50:05.leave, and Tim and the Lib Dems are clear we do not want a rerun that

:50:06. > :50:09.referendum. We have agreed as a country to get on the train to

:50:10. > :50:13.depart, but we do not yet have a destination. Tim is right that the

:50:14. > :50:17.detail of that destination is critical. It may be that there are a

:50:18. > :50:21.large number of people in this country who will say the cost is too

:50:22. > :50:24.high if we lose hundreds of thousands of jobs because we will

:50:25. > :50:28.lose the single market, but we don't know because Theresa May will not

:50:29. > :50:34.tell us. Sal Brinton in Brighton, thank you. A big day for the Liberal

:50:35. > :50:45.Democrats in Brighton. An even bigger day in New York taking place.

:50:46. > :50:53.The UN and world leaders are gathering for their annual September

:50:54. > :50:56.gathering. Barack Obama has been speaking. Theresa May will also be

:50:57. > :50:58.speaking for the first time to the United Nations.

:50:59. > :51:01.Let's talk to the BBC's deputy political editor Jon Pienaar,

:51:02. > :51:04.he's at the United Nations in New York.

:51:05. > :51:13.Bring us up to date over what's happening. The Prime Minister, in a

:51:14. > :51:16.couple of hours' time, will be on the floor of the UN General

:51:17. > :51:20.Assembly, making her debut speech. The message of the speech will be

:51:21. > :51:25.the message that has been pressed home in meeting after meeting with

:51:26. > :51:29.President and Prime Minister and President and Prime Minister. It's

:51:30. > :51:33.like diplomatic speed dating. The thrust of this is the Prime Minister

:51:34. > :51:35.coming here to tell world leaders that because Britain is leaving the

:51:36. > :51:41.European Union doesn't mean Britain is giving up its role as a global

:51:42. > :51:45.player. Britain still meeting its target for international aid, still

:51:46. > :51:50.meeting targets for spending on defence. It still playing a role as

:51:51. > :51:55.a big global player. The question mark over how that carries on after

:51:56. > :52:01.Brexit will be on everyone's mind. I'm sure there will be great

:52:02. > :52:05.interest among global leaders and their advisers around them over what

:52:06. > :52:10.Brexit will actually mean. They will be asking Theresa May about that. I

:52:11. > :52:15.suppose that she hasn't been able to tell us, and I assume therefore that

:52:16. > :52:21.she doesn't have much new to tell them. She may have an idea of where

:52:22. > :52:27.this is going, but she can't know. This will be hammered out over

:52:28. > :52:31.countless meetings with other leaders at prime ministerial and

:52:32. > :52:35.cabinet and official level. Endless meetings at that level between

:52:36. > :52:39.endless countries, not just in the European Union, on how trading deals

:52:40. > :52:44.will work in the future. It's a horse trading game. It's barely even

:52:45. > :52:49.begun. We know at this stage it will not be easy. We also know there are

:52:50. > :52:52.quite powerful voices in the European Union who believe it

:52:53. > :52:57.shouldn't be made easier, it should be made as hard as possible. The

:52:58. > :53:01.Slovakian leader has said it should be as painful for Britain as

:53:02. > :53:07.possible to send the message to the rest of the European Union, that

:53:08. > :53:11.it's cold out there. When the Prime Minister comes into the cheap seats

:53:12. > :53:15.at the back of the plane, this was put to her, and she said they would

:53:16. > :53:21.get a deal they would all signed. We don't know what that deal will be

:53:22. > :53:26.like. That idea is in Theresa May's mind. Still a lot of haggling to go.

:53:27. > :53:31.The theme of this particular General Assembly has a lot to do with the

:53:32. > :53:35.number of refugees in the world, displaced peoples, millions of

:53:36. > :53:38.people on the move in various parts of the world, not least in the

:53:39. > :53:44.Middle East, heading into Greece and Italy. Mrs May's message on that is

:53:45. > :53:50.quite, how can I put it, unsympathetic? I wouldn't

:53:51. > :53:55.necessarily say unsympathetic. There was something of a lesson about what

:53:56. > :53:58.Theresa May was saying when she was addressing the wider world and

:53:59. > :54:02.setting out how she sees the migration crisis. For one thing,

:54:03. > :54:06.asserting every country including Britain has the right to police and

:54:07. > :54:11.control its own border. It was like saying, hands off, we will deal with

:54:12. > :54:16.our own borders, don't tell us who to let in. They don't need to be

:54:17. > :54:23.told it's a very serious crisis, about 65 million people displaced

:54:24. > :54:25.from their homes, more than the population of the UK. A lot of

:54:26. > :54:29.countries out there like Germany and others, are feeling the sharp end of

:54:30. > :54:34.this. Theresa May saying that we have to to get together to work out

:54:35. > :54:37.a plan, but perhaps spending money on the borders of conflict zones,

:54:38. > :54:41.not letting them sweep across Europe. If we let them move, let

:54:42. > :54:45.them go to the first country and stay there. A lot of people might

:54:46. > :54:51.like that to be the case, but some might not take kindly to being

:54:52. > :54:52.lectured by Britain. John Pienaar outside the United Nations in New

:54:53. > :54:56.York. Thank you for joining us. Now, what did activists

:54:57. > :55:10.watching Tim Farron's speech Most of the delegates have rushed

:55:11. > :55:15.off to the train station to get home, but three of them promised to

:55:16. > :55:20.talk to me. Carroll, Stephen and Ellie. Karen, what did you make of

:55:21. > :55:25.Tim Farron's speech? I think it's one of the best he has made as

:55:26. > :55:31.leader. It was passionate and to the point. Very, very good. Stephen,

:55:32. > :55:36.what did you make of the big appeal to moderate Labour voters, praising

:55:37. > :55:41.Tony Blair. Did that sit comfortably with you? It felt very comfortable.

:55:42. > :55:46.A large portion of the population voted for Tony Blair in the glory

:55:47. > :55:49.days of 1997 and have felt abandoned. Labour has left the field

:55:50. > :55:54.and talking to themselves and there is an open field out their words

:55:55. > :55:58.voters desperately want an open, tolerant and united party and he

:55:59. > :56:03.gave that speech wonderfully. Everybody feeling positive. Ellie,

:56:04. > :56:07.was there anything in there that appealed to you directly? Tim Farron

:56:08. > :56:12.talked about the NHS and scrapping Cammack sat test that rhyme is good.

:56:13. > :56:29.to you? -- scrapping Sats tests. The way he's defending it, refugees,

:56:30. > :56:33.willing to defend them, and there's a party willing to defend them, that

:56:34. > :56:38.resonated with me. A message that Tim Farron trying to get out about

:56:39. > :56:41.having a second referendum. Is that a difficult message, because people

:56:42. > :56:45.might feel it is not respectful of the way people voted in the first

:56:46. > :56:49.place. It's a difficult situation, I accept, but we have to be proud that

:56:50. > :56:57.our party has believed it's in the best interest of the country. 48% of

:56:58. > :57:01.the population voted for it. The 52% were lied to and we need to be very

:57:02. > :57:06.clear that it's in the interests of our country to stay in and we will

:57:07. > :57:11.stand for that. As you go away from the conference after your day here,

:57:12. > :57:15.membership is up and everybody feels pretty positive, there is still a

:57:16. > :57:19.big challenge. It's a big challenge for the party but I'm sure it's one

:57:20. > :57:24.Tim and the rest of the party will rise to. Membership going up so high

:57:25. > :57:29.was amazing after the referendum. It shows that people are looking to the

:57:30. > :57:32.Liberal Democrats to take lead. Thank you for staying. We better let

:57:33. > :57:39.these people rush off to the trains to get home. Would it be fair on

:57:40. > :57:43.domestic policy to sum up Tim Farron's speech that he and the Lib

:57:44. > :57:48.Dems are now the heirs to Tony Blair? I think that's what he's

:57:49. > :57:52.trying to say. The great stuff that Tony Blair and the 97 Labour

:57:53. > :57:56.government did on workers' rights and public service investment, we

:57:57. > :58:04.need some of that again. Will that cut through? Is it a rich seam to

:58:05. > :58:09.mine? I think it works as a particular message in the

:58:10. > :58:14.Westminster bubble. Tim is trying to communicate something to Labour MPs

:58:15. > :58:16.and activists who are feeling disenfranchised by Corbynistas. At

:58:17. > :58:22.some point for the centre-left to win again it has to stop talking

:58:23. > :58:29.about Tony Blair and talk about the future. Thank you to Polly for

:58:30. > :58:34.talking to us. This might be overshadowed by breaking news in the

:58:35. > :58:37.United States, a number of reports saying Angelina Jolie filing for

:58:38. > :58:41.divorce from Brad Pitt. I can see from the look in your eyes it's a

:58:42. > :58:45.big story. That's all from our coverage of Tim Farron's party

:58:46. > :58:50.conference speech. We will be back at midday tomorrow. I will be back

:58:51. > :58:52.on Thursday. Join us if you can. We better check on that story. It's

:58:53. > :59:03.interesting. You see clips of a pile of bricks

:59:04. > :59:07.causing anger in a gallery and a pickled shark

:59:08. > :59:11.floating in a tank.