:00:36. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.Jeremy Corbyn shuffles his Shadow Cabinet, sacking his chief
:00:44. > :00:45.whip and promoting Diane Abbott to Shadow Home Secretary.
:00:46. > :00:51.Ukip say leadership candidate Steven Woolfe has "reached out
:00:52. > :00:54.the hand of friendship" to his fellow MEP Mike Hookem,
:00:55. > :00:56.after their altercation yesterday left Mr Woolfe in hospital.
:00:57. > :01:03.We'll assess the implications for the party.
:01:04. > :01:06.The EU Commission considers a new plan to bring the citizens
:01:07. > :01:10.of Europe together - free Interrail passes for 18-year-olds.
:01:11. > :01:15.And after Liam Fox says he won't be sharing Chevening House
:01:16. > :01:18.with Boris Johnson and David Davis, we've got the Daily Politics guide
:01:19. > :01:21.to the Government's top official residences.
:01:22. > :01:23.This house goes with the job and when I say it goes
:01:24. > :01:26.with the job, I mean it goes with the job!
:01:27. > :01:37.All that in the next hour and with us for the first half
:01:38. > :01:40.of the programme today, the Daily Mail's political editor
:01:41. > :01:49.Let's kick off with the latest on Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow
:01:50. > :01:55.Last night the Labour leader started to fill in the gaps
:01:56. > :01:57.in his Shadow Cabinet, following his victory over
:01:58. > :02:00.leadership challenger Owen Smith two weeks ago.
:02:01. > :02:02.Labour's Deputy Leader Tom Watson said recently that the party
:02:03. > :02:05.needed to "put the band back together" after a summer
:02:06. > :02:08.So who has Jeremy Corbyn appointed as his
:02:09. > :02:18.The Chief Whip Rosie Winterton, popular with many Labour MPs,
:02:19. > :02:20.has been sacked, due to artistic differences.
:02:21. > :02:22.She makes way for a comeback by Nick Brown, who served
:02:23. > :02:25.as Chief Whip under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
:02:26. > :02:27.Andy Burnham is going solo and running to become mayor
:02:28. > :02:32.So he is replaced as Shadow Home Secretary by Diane Abbott,
:02:33. > :02:39.Baroness Shami Chakrabarti, who only joined the party
:02:40. > :02:41.earlier this year, is appointed Shadow
:02:42. > :02:46.Clive Lewis was involved in a row with the party
:02:47. > :02:48.leadership over Trident policy at the Labour conference.
:02:49. > :02:50.He has been moved from his defence post
:02:51. > :02:57.The new Shadow Defence Secretary is Nia Griffith.
:02:58. > :02:59.She is one of four Labour MPs who have resigned this year
:03:00. > :03:04.Other returning band members are Sarah Champion,
:03:05. > :03:09.Jonathan Reynolds and Keir Starmer, the new Shadow Brexit Secretary.
:03:10. > :03:12.But will the changes get Labour MPs all singing
:03:13. > :03:15.One senior party figure has already called the reshuffle "cack
:03:16. > :03:30.Well, we are joined now by Jo Stevens in Cardiff. Welcome to your
:03:31. > :03:35.pointment to the Shadow Cabinet. Keir Starmer wrote in July it is
:03:36. > :03:37.simply untenable to suggest that Labour can offer effective
:03:38. > :03:41.opposition without a change of leader. What's changed? Well, we
:03:42. > :03:46.have had a leadership election. Jeremy has won and won convincingly
:03:47. > :03:50.and I think Keir Starmer probably feels like I do which is that we
:03:51. > :03:53.have got to get on with forming a credible, and functional opposition
:03:54. > :03:57.to the Tory Government because the public needs it. So I'm delighted
:03:58. > :04:01.that he has accepted his position in the Shadow Cabinet. I was delighted
:04:02. > :04:06.to accept mine and I'm ready to get on with the hard work. So you're
:04:07. > :04:09.going to swallow any of the reservations you had about Jeremy
:04:10. > :04:15.Corbyn? Well, there has been a leadership election... There was one
:04:16. > :04:24.before, of course, and he was elected then but you said it became
:04:25. > :04:31.obvious that Labour were able to fulfil the obligations of being an
:04:32. > :04:35.opposition? We have to abide by the decision and there is a
:04:36. > :04:39.responsibility on us all, members and elected representatives to make
:04:40. > :04:42.sure that we fulfil the official opposition role and that's what the
:04:43. > :04:47.public want us to do and we've got to get on with it. There are huge
:04:48. > :04:51.challenges facing the country. We saw last week at Tory Party
:04:52. > :04:55.conference a xenophobic rhetoric coming from Theresa May and from
:04:56. > :04:58.Amber Rudd and we have got to challenge that because that's not
:04:59. > :05:01.what people want to hear. You said three months that Owen Smith was a
:05:02. > :05:03.better bet than Jeremy Corbyn to win the next general election. Do you
:05:04. > :05:07.still think he would have been a better bet to win the general
:05:08. > :05:10.election? I really wanted Owen to win the leadership election. I have
:05:11. > :05:14.long thought that he was a potential future leader of the Labour Party
:05:15. > :05:18.and I'm disappointed that he didn't win, but as I did last year when
:05:19. > :05:23.Jeremy stood for election, I didn't wack Jeremy then and he won and I
:05:24. > :05:26.decided, you know, the best thing party loyalty is you stick behind
:05:27. > :05:29.whoever is the leader, the elected leader of the party. We're a
:05:30. > :05:32.collective, the Labour Party is a collective and we have a leader,
:05:33. > :05:35.we've got to get on with the job. Do you think he can win the next
:05:36. > :05:39.general election? I hope he can. It is all our jobs from members, right
:05:40. > :05:42.up to elected representatives to make sure that we give the best
:05:43. > :05:48.possible opportunity to that happening. One of Mr Corbyn's
:05:49. > :05:51.allies, Shami Chakrabarti has been appointed to the Shadow Cabinet only
:05:52. > :05:56.five months after she joined the party to deliver a report on
:05:57. > :06:01.anti-semitism, today the Jewish board of deputies says this makes
:06:02. > :06:05.her report look like a job application and accused her of
:06:06. > :06:10.selling out the Jewish community. What's your response? We have a
:06:11. > :06:14.problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party in the way there is
:06:15. > :06:17.a problem with anti-semitism across the UK and we need to deal with it
:06:18. > :06:25.properly, thoroughly and appropriately. Shami Chakrabarti has
:06:26. > :06:28.a huge amount of experience that she will bring to the House of Lords and
:06:29. > :06:31.to the Shadow Cabinet. Shetion an excellent person to be a member of
:06:32. > :06:35.the House of Lords and the Shadow Cabinet as Shadow Attorney-General.
:06:36. > :06:41.Timing wise, you know, maybe I can see why people will criticise, but
:06:42. > :06:46.give her a chance. Did you think it was a whitewash her report? I don't
:06:47. > :06:51.think it was a whitewash, no, but I think things could have been handled
:06:52. > :06:56.better and I know that Jeremy said during his leadership campaign that
:06:57. > :07:00.he made mistakes and the sign of a strong, good leader is someone who
:07:01. > :07:04.licence and persuades and influences others, but someone who makes
:07:05. > :07:08.compromises and I think there need to be some compromises. I hope
:07:09. > :07:11.yesterday as appointments where Jeremy appointed people who were
:07:12. > :07:14.Owen Smith supporters shows an element of compromise and I hope to
:07:15. > :07:19.see more. Do you think there was compromise when he sacked Rosie
:07:20. > :07:23.Winterton as Chief Whip? I'm sad about Rosie going. I thought she did
:07:24. > :07:26.a brilliant job in very, very challenging circumstances... So why
:07:27. > :07:30.did he sack her? Well, I haven't talked to Jeremy about that and I
:07:31. > :07:36.don't know and I saw Rosie's statement yesterday. I wish her the
:07:37. > :07:41.very best and I wish Nick Brown the best in his role and I'm sure he
:07:42. > :07:44.will do as good a job as Rosie did. Jeremy Corbyn talked a lot about
:07:45. > :07:49.olive branches during the Labour Party Conference. And Rosie wenthed
:07:50. > :07:52.winner tonne was seen as the glue between the Parliamentary party and
:07:53. > :07:57.the leadership and the members and he sacked her. Does that seem
:07:58. > :08:00.conciliatory to you? Well, I'm looking at the whole picture. You
:08:01. > :08:04.can focus on one individual, but I want to see... She was an important
:08:05. > :08:14.individual as Chief Whip? Of course, but I want to look at the whole
:08:15. > :08:18.picture. If you look at the appointments made yesterday, I
:08:19. > :08:23.supported Owen Smith, and Keir Starmer supported Owen Smith, sir ra
:08:24. > :08:29.Champion either remained neutral or supported Oult. He held out an olive
:08:30. > :08:34.branch. There is more to do. It is a good start. Let's see what the
:08:35. > :08:43.frontbench and the Shadow Cabinet look like when it is concluded. What
:08:44. > :08:46.did Clive Lewis do? It seemed because he backed Trident, his
:08:47. > :08:50.decent was punished with a move out of defence? Well, I don't think it
:08:51. > :08:55.is a demotion or a punishment. The job that Clive has taken on, which
:08:56. > :09:00.I'm sure he will do very well, is a really critical job. We're talking
:09:01. > :09:03.about the term of Brexit. All the issues around protection of
:09:04. > :09:07.employment rights and health and safety at work will come under
:09:08. > :09:11.Clive's role in that department. And so, you know, I think for Clive, it
:09:12. > :09:18.is a great move. I think he'll do a really good job and I think Nia will
:09:19. > :09:24.do a good job as Shadow defence secretary. What do you make of this
:09:25. > :09:31.reshuffle, carrying it out now in the way he has? Well, pity poor Nick
:09:32. > :09:36.Brown. He was the Chief Whip during the years of the Blair-Brown... And
:09:37. > :09:41.he was a Brownite? He was a heavyweight figure there. But I
:09:42. > :09:55.suspect that what he had to implement during the worst years of
:09:56. > :09:58.the Blair-Brown what we called the tibgibies, the feeling is they have
:09:59. > :10:03.to provide some kind of opposition. There is no prospect of removing
:10:04. > :10:07.Jeremy Corbyn any time in the near future so the best they can do is
:10:08. > :10:12.get on with the job. Well, Jo Stevens is right, and he held out an
:10:13. > :10:16.olive branch to those who have criticised him because he has got
:10:17. > :10:19.Nia Griffiths and he put her in defence and taken on Sarah Champion
:10:20. > :10:24.and Keir Starmer, will that be enough? Please. These are not
:10:25. > :10:29.towering figures in the Labour movement. They are new MPs and they
:10:30. > :10:32.are not the figures who have been the greatest decenters against
:10:33. > :10:33.Corbynism. It doesn't exactly show a great breadth across the party
:10:34. > :10:37.there. Thank you. The former Labour Prime Minister
:10:38. > :10:42.Tony Blair has given an interview to Esquire magazine where he's
:10:43. > :10:45.hinted at a possible career move, so our question for today is,
:10:46. > :10:52.what is he thinking of doing? Is it a) Going on Strictly Come
:10:53. > :10:54.Dancing, b) Becoming
:10:55. > :10:56.Secretary General of the UN, or d) Returning to frontline
:10:57. > :10:59.British politics? Later in the programme Isabel
:11:00. > :11:03.will give us the correct answer. Ukip's Steven Woolfe will be kept
:11:04. > :11:09.in hospital for another two days, following what Nigel Farage called
:11:10. > :11:12."an altercation" with fellow Ukip MEP Mike Hookem
:11:13. > :11:15.at the European Parliament. The party released these pictures
:11:16. > :11:18.of Mr Woolfe being visited by Mr Farage and say the extra stay
:11:19. > :11:24.is just a precaution. An inquiry has been launched
:11:25. > :11:27.into the incident with Mr Hookem apparently denying a physical
:11:28. > :11:29.fight took place. Details are sketchy,
:11:30. > :11:32.but the BBC has been told it's believed Mr Woolfe
:11:33. > :11:35.banged his head against a window Following a vote two hours later
:11:36. > :11:39."he collapsed" and the emergancy Earlier this morning Ukip MEP
:11:40. > :11:43.Nathan Gill spoke to the media I have just been to see my good
:11:44. > :11:51.friend Steven Woolfe, He told me that his family are fully
:11:52. > :11:58.aware of his situation and where he is and his health,
:11:59. > :12:01.and he can't wait to He's sick of croissants
:12:02. > :12:06.and is looking forward to a good full English breakfast,
:12:07. > :12:10.so as you can tell, Steven has this morning reached out
:12:11. > :12:15.the hand of friendship to Mr Hookem, to Mike, and has realised that
:12:16. > :12:19.things did go too far in the MEP meeting, so he's made moves
:12:20. > :12:24.forward for keeping us The party will be holding a full
:12:25. > :12:33.and thorough investigation I myself was not in the room
:12:34. > :12:38.at the moment that it happened. I walked into the room
:12:39. > :12:40.as it was happening. So I cannot comment fully,
:12:41. > :12:48.and I do not wish to at this stage. We can speak now to Raheem Kassam,
:12:49. > :12:51.a former advisor to Nigel Farage and one of Steven Woolfe's rivals
:12:52. > :13:08.to the be the next Ukip leader. Welcome to the programme. Ukip lost
:13:09. > :13:13.a leader after only 18 day ins Diane James, the party's MEPs cannot meet
:13:14. > :13:16.without some fight breaking out and your biggest donor Aaron Banks says
:13:17. > :13:22.the party is at breaking point. Is he right? Yeah, I think the party
:13:23. > :13:26.has some serious crisis going on inside. I don't think it is anything
:13:27. > :13:32.that it can't recover from and I also would point out that this isn't
:13:33. > :13:35.unique to Ukip. I maornings you have seen Labour MPs and Tory MPs having
:13:36. > :13:39.brawls in Parliament before, it is not a good look, but it is nothing
:13:40. > :13:43.the party can't move on from. The party chairman said Ukip would hold
:13:44. > :13:47.on an investigation into what happened, into the altercation
:13:48. > :13:50.between Steven Woolfe and Mike Hookem. Should they both be
:13:51. > :13:53.suspended from the party in your mind? I don't know. We don't know
:13:54. > :13:59.enough about what happened at the moment to make those sort of calls
:14:00. > :14:02.and I think anybody who is trying to assign blame either way or... Well,
:14:03. > :14:08.that's what I mean. Suspend both of them? Yeah, but why? You don't know
:14:09. > :14:15.what happened yet. Let's see what the investigation turns out. The
:14:16. > :14:19.point is this, Ukip is searching for a leader, there is serial things
:14:20. > :14:22.that the party could be doing and should be doing now to make the
:14:23. > :14:26.country a better place and needs to stop this internal fighting and
:14:27. > :14:30.actually get and literal fighting and get on with doing its job and
:14:31. > :14:33.that's to be an opposition party. Goodness knows, Labour is not going
:14:34. > :14:38.to do it. How much reputational damage has been done to the party?
:14:39. > :14:42.You could accuse both of them of bringing the party into disderoute?
:14:43. > :14:46.It is against the party's rules and it is a phrase banded around a lot
:14:47. > :14:50.especially by people who want to get others kicked off leadership ballots
:14:51. > :14:53.for instance and there is all sorts of talk going on in the background
:14:54. > :14:58.in Ukip and my phone is ringing off the hook of people saying, "They are
:14:59. > :15:02.trying to kick Stephen off." It is unfair, you do have to look at
:15:03. > :15:06.having a full investigation into this. I think, you know, this is a
:15:07. > :15:10.human problem. It is an emotional problem that occurred yesterday and
:15:11. > :15:15.you know I think, we're very quick in politics to forget the people are
:15:16. > :15:19.human beings and quick to forget we all make errors so I want to hear
:15:20. > :15:24.what actually happened, and then I'll comment about what I think
:15:25. > :15:29.should be done. It has been reported that one of the things that caused
:15:30. > :15:32.the tension to spill out, was that Steven Woolfe's comments that he
:15:33. > :15:37.held discussions about possibly defecting to the Conservatives. Can
:15:38. > :15:37.someone credibly stand to be Ukip leader soon after considering
:15:38. > :15:46.leaving the party? That is a really interesting
:15:47. > :15:48.question, and one I have wrestled with inside my head since I heard
:15:49. > :15:54.this. And the answer? I like Steven a lot,
:15:55. > :15:58.he's a good personal friend of mine. I think you may have made a judgment
:15:59. > :16:02.error in talking to the Conservative Party. I think a lot of people in
:16:03. > :16:06.the party have been thinking about these things as well. Some members
:16:07. > :16:12.have been joining the Conservative Party over recent weeks. Can he
:16:13. > :16:16.credibly stand? I think you can, to be honest. I think he is good enough
:16:17. > :16:21.of heart to know when he has made a mistake and move on for it. I would
:16:22. > :16:27.like to see Steven be in the race. How long have you been a member of
:16:28. > :16:33.Ukip? Consecutively or in total? Consecutively, up until now? I
:16:34. > :16:37.joined at the last leadership election, about two months ago.
:16:38. > :16:42.Before that I was a member for about 18 months and then had a lap cement
:16:43. > :16:50.ship of 6-8 months. Will that make it difficult for you to stand?
:16:51. > :16:55.According to the rule book you need to be a consecutive member of the
:16:56. > :17:00.two years? There are two party rule books floating around the Internet,
:17:01. > :17:04.once is 28 days and one says two years. The NEC try to put a
:17:05. > :17:08.five-year rule in last time. The point is this, this is an important
:17:09. > :17:12.election for Ukip and I thing it should be an open contest. I think
:17:13. > :17:18.anyone who has good ideas for the party should be able to stand. This
:17:19. > :17:21.is a existential moment. If the NAC start their chicanery will again or
:17:22. > :17:28.they're doing is bringing focus back on themselves, as to why the party
:17:29. > :17:32.needs drastic reform. You say it is chicanery and complained a little
:17:33. > :17:35.earlier in the interview about using excuses to kick people out of the
:17:36. > :17:39.party or suspend them. You said in an interview if you were elected
:17:40. > :17:43.Neil Hamilton would be the second person out of the door. So you want
:17:44. > :17:49.to do the same, who is the first? The first would be Douglas Carswell.
:17:50. > :17:53.So you want to kick people out of the party? There is no doubt, I'm
:17:54. > :17:56.not going to hide the fact, everybody knows I am someone who
:17:57. > :18:00.thinks that there are certain people in the party you are setting out to
:18:01. > :18:06.do the party harm intentionally, I believe that. But after yesterday's
:18:07. > :18:10.incident I also spoke to Ian Dalla LBC and said, this makes me pause
:18:11. > :18:14.and makes me think. It makes me think that maybe we need a moment to
:18:15. > :18:20.come together, we need a moment to sit around a table and try to hammer
:18:21. > :18:24.out our grievances and differences. If at that point we all still
:18:25. > :18:29.realise we can't get along, then somebody needs to stand up and say,
:18:30. > :18:33.either you go or we go or something has to happen here to solve this
:18:34. > :18:37.problem, but I do think from the outset, I will extend the hand of
:18:38. > :18:40.friendship, let's all sit down and try to hammer these problems out.
:18:41. > :18:44.What no more threats of kicking people out of the party up. What is
:18:45. > :18:48.your view on how likely it is the party can come together? Do you
:18:49. > :18:52.think it was to be around in a couple of years' time? I'm not
:18:53. > :18:56.convinced, to tell you the truth, which I think is a great pity. I
:18:57. > :18:59.think there is absolutely a space for a political party or movement
:19:00. > :19:04.that holds the government's feet to the fire. We have seen what a mess
:19:05. > :19:09.Labour is in, here's hoping they manage to form a credible and robust
:19:10. > :19:11.opposition, but it isn't now. So many people voted for the UK
:19:12. > :19:34.Independence party at the last election, so there is not a space
:19:35. > :19:37.for it to do more. But I thing the current setup, the people and the
:19:38. > :19:39.individuals, all the baggage, the history, the problems with money and
:19:40. > :19:42.discipline, it feels as if the show is over. What you think about Raheem
:19:43. > :19:45.Kassam, in terms of being a potential leader? He's been around
:19:46. > :19:50.Ukip for a long time. I'm not interested in a layperson as to how
:19:51. > :19:57.many months he has or hasn't been a member. Has to be rules? Rules are
:19:58. > :20:02.causing lots of grief at the moment, if you can or can't punch each
:20:03. > :20:06.other. Presumably there is normally a consensus around no punching? You
:20:07. > :20:10.would assume so. He has been around Ukip a long time and I am sure he
:20:11. > :20:14.should be involved in any leadership contest. My feeling is, I'm not sure
:20:15. > :20:19.why anyone would want to lead this party at the moment. Why do you want
:20:20. > :20:22.to lead it at the moment, bearing in mind how difficult it is and you
:20:23. > :20:27.yourself have said you might not be able to come together? I think
:20:28. > :20:31.Isabel is completely correct. I think there is no opposition in this
:20:32. > :20:34.country at the moment and then need to be some serious political
:20:35. > :20:39.opposition in this country. We can't have a 1-party state. We can't have
:20:40. > :20:43.a Theresa May trying to be Ukip for two and a half years to siphon off
:20:44. > :20:47.all the Ukip members and turn it on its head when it has an election
:20:48. > :20:53.coming up and she has to fight Jeremy Corbyn... Her leadership has
:20:54. > :20:58.convinced them to defect and join the Conservative Party. On your
:20:59. > :21:02.leadership... They will come back under my leadership. Many have
:21:03. > :21:09.linked you to Nigel Farage's comments during the referendum about
:21:10. > :21:15.HIV and AIDS. You said you describe the commenters shock and awe, is
:21:16. > :21:18.that true? I did. Do you still stand by those comments, and he should
:21:19. > :21:23.have raised in that debate? I don't know what you mean by still stand by
:21:24. > :21:27.them. Nigel Farage got up onstage and unbeknown to us make this
:21:28. > :21:31.statement. The statement was one of complete fact and one that was
:21:32. > :21:35.intelligent to bring up in a discussion about the National Health
:21:36. > :21:38.Service, especially when we consider the National Health Service is
:21:39. > :21:42.turning into an international health is this, however, I totally agree
:21:43. > :21:45.with some people and commentators out there who said it could have
:21:46. > :21:49.been done in a different way. It could have been done in a more
:21:50. > :21:55.tactful way. This was a statement, and I won't get into naming names.
:21:56. > :21:59.It was about judgment? Hold on, as much as people tried to goad me into
:22:00. > :22:04.this, I won't name names. Other people in the party briefed Nigel on
:22:05. > :22:08.that issue, not me, that's why said it was shocking and awful. It was a
:22:09. > :22:12.flippant turn of phrase used with some journalists in the room
:22:13. > :22:16.afterwards, so I didn't appreciate the fact they reported it. That's
:22:17. > :22:19.what they do. Thank you for joining us, Raheem Kassam.
:22:20. > :22:22.Now, cast you mind back a few months if you can,
:22:23. > :22:25.A report published today by the pressure group
:22:26. > :22:27.Transparency International, suggests that over half of the money
:22:28. > :22:29.donations to the leave and remain campaigns were made
:22:30. > :22:33.Fought primarily by the two big official referendum groups -
:22:34. > :22:35.Vote Leave and Britain Stronger In Europe -
:22:36. > :22:44.almost ?30 million was spent in the run-up to the vote.
:22:45. > :22:46.Transparency International says that the dominance of rich donors
:22:47. > :22:48.is undermining our trust in politics, and are lobbying
:22:49. > :22:51.for a new cap on individual donations.
:22:52. > :22:53.Joining us now in the studio is the organisation's UK
:22:54. > :22:55.Policy Director, and former Liberal Democrat MP
:22:56. > :23:06.Welcome back to Daily Politics. What does it say, your new report? It
:23:07. > :23:11.shows an astonishingly large amount of the money spent on the referendum
:23:12. > :23:15.campaign came from a very small number of exceptionally wealthy
:23:16. > :23:19.people. The report also reveals findings of the global corruption
:23:20. > :23:23.barometer survey that showed a representative sample of people in
:23:24. > :23:27.the UK, three quarters of them, thought wealthy individuals had
:23:28. > :23:32.undue influence because of their position in society. Does actually
:23:33. > :23:40.affect trust in politics in any major way? People will say there
:23:41. > :23:44.have been big donations to parties over history, does this change that?
:23:45. > :23:48.A quarter of people in that survey said they believed most or all MPs
:23:49. > :23:52.were involved in corruption. Whether that is accurate or not, it shows
:23:53. > :23:55.there is a great degree of distrust. After the referendum, so many
:23:56. > :23:59.political leaders were wondering why they weren't connecting with the
:24:00. > :24:05.people. Do you think it is about donations? It's not factual truth to
:24:06. > :24:09.say most MPs in this country are corrupt, it's a perception problem,
:24:10. > :24:13.isn't it? Why would donations from a few rich individuals be, in your
:24:14. > :24:17.mind, the one thing that makes people lose trust in politics? I'm
:24:18. > :24:21.sure it's not just one thing. What we're trying to show with this
:24:22. > :24:27.report is how incredibly vulnerable the British political system is, to
:24:28. > :24:30.small numbers of people with a particular vested interest in having
:24:31. > :24:33.a disproportionate degree of influence. Hasn't that been borne
:24:34. > :24:37.out by many commentators saying that is what the referendum was about.
:24:38. > :24:41.Not being told what to do by expat. The rich and for having too much
:24:42. > :24:45.say? You know what I think is remarkable about the way the
:24:46. > :24:52.referendum was funded? The enormous number of very small donors that
:24:53. > :24:56.there were. Interesting case in point is Peter Hargreaves, a very
:24:57. > :25:01.wealthy man, who donated a lot of money out of his own pocket to the
:25:02. > :25:05.Brexit campaign. He spent that money on a leafleting campaign to millions
:25:06. > :25:11.of households, offsetting somewhat the money the government spent, ?9
:25:12. > :25:15.million of it, of taxpayers money, and his leafleting campaign prompted
:25:16. > :25:19.thousands of people to give a few pounds of what they could afford.
:25:20. > :25:24.And by the way, when Peter Hargreaves achieved what he wanted,
:25:25. > :25:51.which was Brexit, the share price in his
:25:52. > :25:54.company nosedived. That tells you everything about the motivations,
:25:55. > :25:57.the good motivations. You are saying small donations work? It is better
:25:58. > :26:00.to have or try to get more people, a bit like Donald Trump has, attracted
:26:01. > :26:02.a lot of small donations? What is important is people are engaged in
:26:03. > :26:05.politics. That they feel they have a stake in it and they can put a
:26:06. > :26:07.little bit into it. Fine, ?3 donation, 30 poun ds donation, I
:26:08. > :26:09.think that of the information revealed by. The point of the
:26:10. > :26:12.information revealed need to fight their political campaigns don't come
:26:13. > :26:14.from those people, it comes from a very small number of wealthy
:26:15. > :26:16.individuals. I don't believe from my experience in Parliament that those
:26:17. > :26:18.politicians want to spend time courting wealthy donors any more
:26:19. > :26:21.than we want them to focus their efforts on it. Are you suggesting
:26:22. > :26:24.state funding? As you know, it's not a report is most of the resources
:26:25. > :26:26.that political parties need to fight their political campaigns don't come
:26:27. > :26:28.from those people, it comes from a very small number of wealthy
:26:29. > :26:30.individuals. I don't believe from my experience in Parliament that those
:26:31. > :26:33.politicians want to spend time courting wealthy donors any more
:26:34. > :26:35.than we want them to focus their efforts on it. Are you suggesting
:26:36. > :26:38.state funding? As you know, it's not a popular we are recommending a cap
:26:39. > :26:40.on donations of ?10,000 a year, which originated from a we are
:26:41. > :26:42.recommending a cap on donations of ?10,000 a year, which originated
:26:43. > :26:44.from donor funds for the campaign report. And looking at tightening
:26:45. > :26:47.the rules around company donations. The third largest donor of funds for
:26:48. > :26:51.the any accounts. We know very little about exactly where the money
:26:52. > :26:54.came from for that operation, because it isn't registered as a
:26:55. > :26:56.participant in the referendum and only appears a company called better
:26:57. > :26:59.for the country limited, set up barely a year ago and as a result
:27:00. > :27:01.haven't filed any accounts. We know very little about exactly where the
:27:02. > :27:04.money came from for that operation, because it isn't registered as a
:27:05. > :27:06.participant in the referendum and only appears on of the grassroots.
:27:07. > :27:08.Would that starve the main political parties and smaller ones, like the
:27:09. > :27:11.Liberal Democrats of vital funding? If you don't have state funding and
:27:12. > :27:15.you are going to cap the donations. The Lib Dems themselves, the party
:27:16. > :27:19.you are part of, had big donors, with big donations? Your party
:27:20. > :27:21.wouldn't have survived without forms of the grassroots. Would that starve
:27:22. > :27:23.the main political parties and smaller ones, like the Liberal
:27:24. > :27:26.Democrats of vital funding? If you don't have state funding and you are
:27:27. > :27:28.going to cap the donations. The Lib Dems themselves, the party you are
:27:29. > :27:37.part of, had big donors, with big donations? Your party wouldn't have
:27:38. > :27:42.survived people think all or most MPs are corrupt. But that is untrue,
:27:43. > :27:48.is it? Absolute nonsense. I think we need to get away from the idea that
:27:49. > :27:51.donating to politics is some kind of grubby? I think it would have caused
:27:52. > :27:54.problems for a number of political parties, and it's a good problem for
:27:55. > :27:56.them to have, so they do do the outreach Isabel was talking about.
:27:57. > :27:58.So people feel they have ownership over how the democratic process
:27:59. > :28:01.works. The survey says it has evidence on 28% of people think all
:28:02. > :28:03.or most MPs are corrupt. But that isn't true, is it? Absolute
:28:04. > :28:07.nonsense. I think we need to get away from the idea that donating to
:28:08. > :28:10.politics is some kind of. Does net by you influence? Very little, I
:28:11. > :28:13.would say. Go back 20 years, even ten or 15 years to the whole issue
:28:14. > :28:15.that Tony Blair had with cash for peerages. Things are really tight in
:28:16. > :28:18.this country. We have an incredibly robust media. You lot away with
:28:19. > :28:21.anything and rightly so. Compared to some of countries we do hold the is
:28:22. > :28:23.spent on a referendum from a company that doesn't declare where that
:28:24. > :28:26.money has come from I don't think things are tight. And there is a
:28:27. > :28:30.major problem with trust in British politics. Politicians, no matter
:28:31. > :28:33.what their platform or what party they offer are not going to be? When
:28:34. > :28:36.?2 million is spent on referendum from a company that doesn't declare
:28:37. > :28:38.where that money has come from I don't think things are tight. And
:28:39. > :28:40.there is a major problem with trust in British politics. Politicians, no
:28:41. > :28:47.matter what their platform or what party they often are not
:28:48. > :28:53.The position of Prime Minister comes with many powers of patronage -
:28:54. > :28:56.like making appointments to public bodies, and dishing out gongs
:28:57. > :29:00.PMs also get to hand out the keys to a handful of so-called "grace
:29:01. > :29:03.and favour" buildings, including the grand country house
:29:04. > :29:06.It's traditionally the official residence of the Foreign Secretary,
:29:07. > :29:08.but Theresa May has granted access to Chevening not
:29:09. > :29:10.just to Boris Johnson, but also the Brexit Secretary
:29:11. > :29:12.David Davis, and the International Trade Secretary Liam Fox.
:29:13. > :29:15.However, this week Dr Fox told a fringe meeting at the Conservative
:29:16. > :29:17.conference that he won't be staying at Chevening, saying
:29:18. > :29:23.to command the attention of the electorate when deploying arguments
:29:24. > :29:35.if they don't overcome this trust issues. Duncan Hames, thank you
:29:36. > :29:37.Here's Ellie with our Daily Politics low-down on the top official
:29:38. > :29:41.In no particular order, bat at number five it's Chequers'
:29:42. > :29:42.thousand acre 16th century Buckinghamshire gaffe
:29:43. > :29:46.Last year the Prime Minister's office paid just over
:29:47. > :29:48.Well, think of all those light bulbs!
:29:49. > :29:51.But it also boasts a nice local, The Plough, perfect
:29:52. > :29:53.for entertaining your mates, like the President of China.
:29:54. > :29:55.They even offer free childcare, or so thought David Cameron,
:29:56. > :29:57.who once left his daughter there by mistake.
:29:58. > :29:59.At four at Bute House in Edinburgh's desirable Charlotte Square.
:30:00. > :30:02.It's the official residence of the Scottish First Minister.
:30:03. > :30:04.A nice pad for lunch with girlfriends, it's also got
:30:05. > :30:11.great steps, crucial for all those staged photos.
:30:12. > :30:13.At three, it's Hillsborough Castle, home to the Secretary of State
:30:14. > :30:15.for Northern Ireland, when they're there, but they do
:30:16. > :30:17.occasionally have to slum it with a lodger...
:30:18. > :30:20.It's also the official residence of Her Majesty The Queen
:30:21. > :30:26.In a number two, it's Dorneywood, another Buckinghamshire pad.
:30:27. > :30:29.21 rooms, 215 acres and there for any Minister of the Crown
:30:30. > :30:31.the Prime Minister of the day sees fit.
:30:32. > :30:33.Usually that tends to be the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
:30:34. > :30:36.but in the late 90s when Gordon Brown decided he didn't
:30:37. > :30:39.need it, it was used by John Prescott, the then Deputy PM
:30:40. > :30:45.And a number one, it's Chevening in Kent, built in the early 17th
:30:46. > :30:48.century and set in 3,500 acres, it's usually been where foreign
:30:49. > :30:50.secretaries get to rattle around in slippers or host big dinners
:30:51. > :30:59.This house goes with the job and when I say it goes with the job,
:31:00. > :31:04.This time round Theresa May wants these three to share it.
:31:05. > :31:07.Reportedly Liam Fox says he prefers Dorset.
:31:08. > :31:09.But come on boys, there's plenty of space for even those egos,
:31:10. > :31:20.Political historian Seth Thevoz is here.
:31:21. > :31:26.Is Liam Fox making a terrible mistake, missing out on Chevening?
:31:27. > :31:31.Well, look, successive ministers always had their own decisions about
:31:32. > :31:34.whether or not to use these places. The reality is that every minister
:31:35. > :31:38.is incredibly busy. They have got a department to run and work as an MP
:31:39. > :31:43.and they have a Kones quid to mind at the weekend. The idea that they
:31:44. > :31:45.have got time to pop off and spend time in the country houses is
:31:46. > :31:49.lieutenant crews. You're probably right. I hadn't realised how grand
:31:50. > :31:51.Chevening is, become the property of the British Government? None are
:31:52. > :31:56.owned by the British Government. They are owned by various trusts. In
:31:57. > :32:00.the case of Dorneywood, it is the National Trust, its gardens are open
:32:01. > :32:02.to the public and it is a rather complicated legal arrangement, but
:32:03. > :32:07.they haven't had them for long. It is less than a century ago that
:32:08. > :32:11.Chequers, the first of the trio came into the country's hands. That was
:32:12. > :32:15.because David Lloyd George who was Prime Minister at the time was the
:32:16. > :32:19.first Prime Minister to not come from a land of gentry background and
:32:20. > :32:25.not have his own private country house and it was an embarrassment.
:32:26. > :32:30.To make up for this, this was gifted to the nation by Arthur Lee who
:32:31. > :32:37.became Lord Lee. I had wonder why, why? Yes. You could see it would be
:32:38. > :32:42.useful from that point of view, if you are a Foreign Secretary and now
:32:43. > :32:45.we've got three seconds of state perhaps needing to host dinner
:32:46. > :32:49.parties, they will be able to use it? You've got to remember, it is
:32:50. > :32:55.not as if this is something which would never be needed. The
:32:56. > :32:57.alternative costs of hiring out hotels and conferencing banqueting
:32:58. > :33:02.facilities could go into the millions. Chequers has a running
:33:03. > :33:05.cost of ?700,000 a year, if there were never used, it would be a
:33:06. > :33:08.waste, but if they are making frequent use of it, it is a net
:33:09. > :33:13.savings to the Government. There you go, they are cost effective. Have
:33:14. > :33:24.you ever been? I'm waiting for my invitation. Cold come. Cold come. It
:33:25. > :33:27.will come. In a way, there is nothing wrong with our great
:33:28. > :33:30.ministers being able to host particularly foreign guests in
:33:31. > :33:34.lovely places. Do you think Liam Fox is doing this for appearances or he
:33:35. > :33:37.can't bear the thought of having a roe da with Boris Johnson and David
:33:38. > :33:43.Davis is that tiresome? You're probably right. They're incredibly
:33:44. > :33:48.busy, Liam Fox travels a lot and so does Boris Johnson. Just thinks he
:33:49. > :33:52.can do without it and if it saves money, great. Nick Clegg said he
:33:53. > :33:55.couldn't stand the place when he was Deputy Prime Minister. Does that
:33:56. > :34:00.surprise you when he said that? He went on to say he only used it once
:34:01. > :34:04.or twice a month which strikes me as a high usage actually! I hope you
:34:05. > :34:08.get to enjoy them at some stage, thank you for coming in.
:34:09. > :34:12.It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz.
:34:13. > :34:15.The question was what career move is Tony Blair thinking of doing?
:34:16. > :34:18.A) Going on Strictly Come Dancing, b) Becoming Secretary General
:34:19. > :34:21.of the UN, c) Top Gear Presenter, or d) Returning to frontline
:34:22. > :34:33.Where's I'm A Celebrity? Well, you can have a chat with his PR people?
:34:34. > :34:37.None of them pay enough for Mr Blair. I can't see it. You don't.
:34:38. > :34:41.Which one was it just to clarify? Well, in reality he wants to
:34:42. > :34:46.apparently potentially come back to British politics. You don't think it
:34:47. > :34:50.will happen? I can see why he wants to find a bigger purpose now he made
:34:51. > :34:53.so much money, but the problem is, there is too much baggage there.
:34:54. > :34:57.Thank you very much for being our guest of the day.
:34:58. > :35:01.Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been
:35:02. > :35:05.For now, it's time to say goodbye to Isabel Oakeshott.
:35:06. > :35:08.So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on the EU.
:35:09. > :35:10.We'll be discussing Brexit, climate change and
:35:11. > :35:14.First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe -
:35:15. > :35:21.Theresa May kicked off the week with that announcement...
:35:22. > :35:26.We will invoke Article 50 no later than the end of March next year.
:35:27. > :35:29.So even the most mathematically challenged of us can deduce that
:35:30. > :35:33.Britain could leave the EU by summer 2019.
:35:34. > :35:36.Over in Strasbourg, the European Parliament's chief
:35:37. > :35:39.Brexit negotiator warned that the EU should not compromise in Brexit
:35:40. > :35:42.talks on its four founding principles.
:35:43. > :35:45.Freedom of movement, capital, goods and services.
:35:46. > :35:48.The new EU border force was launched on Thursday, aiming at stopping
:35:49. > :35:51.the dozens of migrants who attempt to reach Balkan member states over
:35:52. > :35:57.Hungary rejected the EU's quota for migrant resettlement
:35:58. > :36:00.in a referendum, that is the people who voted.
:36:01. > :36:03.Half the voting population failed to make it to the ballot boxes.
:36:04. > :36:06.And in the vote attended by the UN Secretary General,
:36:07. > :36:08.MEPs backed the world's first global agreement
:36:09. > :36:10.on curbing carbon emissions, which was then ratified by other
:36:11. > :36:21.It's set to come into force in a month's time.
:36:22. > :36:27.And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined
:36:28. > :36:30.by the Ukip MEP Jonathan Arnott, and the Green MEP Molly Scott Cato.
:36:31. > :36:33.Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail,
:36:34. > :36:35.the ratification of the Paris climate change agreement.
:36:36. > :36:44.You were in favour, why? Well, obviously we are all agreed now that
:36:45. > :36:47.chi mat change is the greatest threat facing humanity and it is
:36:48. > :36:50.significant that the world's countries have come to go and agreed
:36:51. > :36:56.the treaty and it has come into force quickly because people are
:36:57. > :36:59.focussed on this. There are two issues, moving rapidly towards
:37:00. > :37:03.renewables like they are doing in Germany and the other thing is
:37:04. > :37:07.focussing on the aspect of land that can be used for carbon capture. I
:37:08. > :37:10.think now we're leaving the Common Agricultural Policy, we can make
:37:11. > :37:13.sure that when we give subsidies to farmers we do that in return for
:37:14. > :37:18.them dealing with climate change through the way they farm. Why did
:37:19. > :37:22.he vote against it? Two reasons, first of all I believe that the
:37:23. > :37:24.decisions should be taken at Westminster by our Parliament in
:37:25. > :37:28.Westminster and not through the European Union. We should decide for
:37:29. > :37:33.ourselves which international agreements we should sign up to.
:37:34. > :37:37.Secondly, my concerns is we're going, often we are putting the cart
:37:38. > :37:41.before the horse in response to low-carbon emissions. My view is
:37:42. > :37:44.that, particularly when you were to point where you've got pensioners
:37:45. > :37:47.who have to struggle to choose between heating and eating in the
:37:48. > :37:51.winter, when energy bills are going up and up and up, what you have to
:37:52. > :37:54.do is, you have to get the technology right and make sure you
:37:55. > :37:58.have the right renewables with the technology right and make them
:37:59. > :38:01.affordable. That's a research and development question. We need to
:38:02. > :38:06.make sure we're doing that. Will it work then? If you take on what
:38:07. > :38:09.Jonathan Arnott is saying. Will it work in practise? Well, we already
:38:10. > :38:14.see governments committing to this and there is a lot of political
:38:15. > :38:18.direction now and political travel, but I think also businesses are
:38:19. > :38:23.coming on board and one of my key concerns as we make the transition
:38:24. > :38:29.to a renewable economy, we don't want to see the benefits accruing to
:38:30. > :38:33.banks and large companies. We can allow fention funds to invest in the
:38:34. > :38:39.infrastructure and the money will come back to them. It is a lot of
:38:40. > :38:43.support, 73 nations ratified, they are counting for 57% of the world's
:38:44. > :38:47.greenhouse gas emissions. So in a sense there is a consensus of sorts
:38:48. > :38:51.behind an agreement like this, which in the future should make energy
:38:52. > :38:56.costs as renewable energy is getting cheaper better for everyone? I think
:38:57. > :39:02.there are certain issues there as well where what we're looking at the
:39:03. > :39:07.moment is China building up to another 400 coal fired power
:39:08. > :39:13.stations and China increasing its emissions far, beyond anything that
:39:14. > :39:15.the entire UK output is. So there are certainly global questions and
:39:16. > :39:19.the global questions have to be answered by getting the technology
:39:20. > :39:22.right. All right. On Thursday, the Ukip MEP Steven Woolfe was
:39:23. > :39:27.hospitalised after what was described as an altercation with a
:39:28. > :39:30.fellow Ukip MEP, Mike Hookem at European Parliament in Strasbourg.
:39:31. > :39:32.Early reports suggested Steven Woolfe was unconscious
:39:33. > :39:35.and in a serious condition, but by the afternoon he was awake
:39:36. > :39:37.and tweeted that he was feeling "brighter, happier
:39:38. > :39:43.The incident came just a day after Steven Woolfe declared
:39:44. > :39:46.that he would stand for the leadership of Ukip,
:39:47. > :39:48.following Diane James' announcement that she was standing down
:39:49. > :39:57.The other MEP involved in the altercation, Mike Hookem has been
:39:58. > :40:05.talking to the BBCment he says he didn't throw a punch at his
:40:06. > :40:08.colleague and nor did he injure Steven Woolfe There was no punches
:40:09. > :40:17.thrown and no digs, there was nothing. People would term hands
:40:18. > :40:21.bags at dawn. A bit of a scuffle. The other door he came through
:40:22. > :40:27.opened up. I was not holding hillment I didn't push him. He fell
:40:28. > :40:30.back into that room on to an MEP that was stood inside the room.
:40:31. > :40:34.Well, that was Mike Hookem giving his account of what happened. Were
:40:35. > :40:37.you there? No, I wasn't there. I arrived at the meeting 15 minutes
:40:38. > :40:42.late because it was called at short notice and I had get to there from
:40:43. > :40:45.my hotel room. I have only been able to piece together what happened from
:40:46. > :40:51.speaking to a number of my colleagues. What have they said to
:40:52. > :40:55.you? My impression there was a little bit of animosity at the start
:40:56. > :40:58.of the meeting. That there was discussion about Steven Woolfe
:40:59. > :41:04.having had discussions about defecting to another party which
:41:05. > :41:08.Mike Hookem took umbrage at. We were then and I'm then told and I must
:41:09. > :41:12.stress I'm recounting what other people said to me, but they are
:41:13. > :41:17.saying to me that then Steven Woolfe took off his jacket and basically
:41:18. > :41:22.said to Mike Hookem let's sort this outside or words to that effect.
:41:23. > :41:26.Steven Woolfe's position as he says it as that he was wanting to discuss
:41:27. > :41:30.it in private, that he wasn't suggesting a physical fight with
:41:31. > :41:37.Mike Hookem who is pretty much of pensionable age. So but for whatever
:41:38. > :41:42.reason, Mike Hookem, having heard that, I think if anyone says let's
:41:43. > :41:47.deal with this outside, I think people start to get the impression
:41:48. > :41:54.that some form of physical altercation. Maybe in Ukip meetings,
:41:55. > :41:58.but not necessarily elsewhere? I have been in Ukip for 15 years and I
:41:59. > :42:02.have never come across one like that one and I'm glad that I arrived at
:42:03. > :42:06.that meeting late, but then what happened when they went outside, as
:42:07. > :42:10.I understand it, they had gone outside the room and therefore,
:42:11. > :42:15.there weren't witness to say that. So in terms of... Were punches
:42:16. > :42:19.thrown? Who threw the first punch and who acted aggressively? That is
:42:20. > :42:23.something that you're not going to get anybody to comment on. So
:42:24. > :42:27.they're being investigated by the party and now the European
:42:28. > :42:32.Parliament is investigating. Do you think they have both brought the
:42:33. > :42:37.party into disrepute? I'm struggling about knowing exactly what happened
:42:38. > :42:40.because obviously other people are involved. Let me put, other people
:42:41. > :42:46.were the ones who were the witnesses to it and I wasn't. But let me put
:42:47. > :42:52.it this way, this really portrays Ukip in an appalling light. The way
:42:53. > :42:56.I look at this is our hard-working members, the people who go out and
:42:57. > :43:00.put leaflets through doors and the people who have worked hard for this
:43:01. > :43:04.party, year in and year out, they expect better of their MEPs than
:43:05. > :43:11.what has been seen over the last 24 hours. Frankly they have a right to
:43:12. > :43:15.expect better and I think it is absolutely disgusting that this
:43:16. > :43:18.incident happened. Our members and activists have a right to expect
:43:19. > :43:21.better and frankly the general public have a right to expect far
:43:22. > :43:26.better too. Should they be suspended? That's a matter for the
:43:27. > :43:30.party hierarchy to determine, but I mean, that is for them to decide,
:43:31. > :43:34.not me. Right. What about, who would you support in a leadership contest?
:43:35. > :43:40.I haven't decided yet partly because I don't know whether someone like
:43:41. > :43:44.Paul Nuttall would be prepared to throw his hat in the ring. It is
:43:45. > :43:48.clear from what we have seen from this situation that obviously, it
:43:49. > :43:53.must surely be obvious to anybody having seen this, that Steven Woolfe
:43:54. > :43:58.and of course, Mike Hookem, but I don't think Mike would put his hat
:43:59. > :44:01.into the ring, surely, they can't now consider either of them could
:44:02. > :44:06.stand in a leadership contest, surely to goodness. The European
:44:07. > :44:10.Parliament now is investigating, the president put out a press release
:44:11. > :44:14.saying words to that effect. What sanctions do they have? I've worked
:44:15. > :44:18.alongside Steven Woolfe because he is an my committee and I speak on
:44:19. > :44:21.finance and he speaks on finance and I found him to be a decent person to
:44:22. > :44:25.work with, but the important point with this story is that Ukip are
:44:26. > :44:29.bringing our country into disrepute. It is appalling when you see
:44:30. > :44:33.somebody collapsed on the bridge in the European Parliament and I think
:44:34. > :44:36.they have been doing this for sometime behaving with disrespect
:44:37. > :44:41.and rudeness and now it has broken out beyond the chamber. Martin
:44:42. > :44:46.Schulz says he will investigate this. I don't know whether he will
:44:47. > :44:51.involve the police, but he will start inside the Parliament, if it
:44:52. > :44:55.is obvious there has been an assault, that's a police matter. A
:44:56. > :44:59.Conservative is going to be leading that investigation. We will be
:45:00. > :45:01.waiting for the results of Ukip's inquiry and the one being run by the
:45:02. > :45:05.European Parliament. In her speech to the Conservative
:45:06. > :45:08.conference, Theresa May made it clear she will ensure Britain's
:45:09. > :45:11.new arrangement with the EU will end the free movement of people and end
:45:12. > :45:14.the European Court of Justice having So what does that mean
:45:15. > :45:17.for our Brexit negotiations, when they start following
:45:18. > :45:20.the triggering of Article 50 at some point before the end
:45:21. > :45:22.of March next year? Our correspondent Kevin Connolly has
:45:23. > :45:24.been testing the mood at the European Parliament
:45:25. > :45:28.in Strasbourg. A busy day at the European
:45:29. > :45:30.Parliament, and a busy week in British politics,
:45:31. > :45:33.because we know a bit Not a deadline, of course,
:45:34. > :45:40.but a sort of rough timetable. The Europeans here so there will be
:45:41. > :45:43.no negotiating until Britain sets out its stall, but might there be
:45:44. > :45:45.a bit of manoeuvring A question for the
:45:46. > :45:54.Parliament's President. Talks are permanently
:45:55. > :45:57.happening, that's normal. People speak to each other,
:45:58. > :46:00.but to discuss with each other But it's going to become more
:46:01. > :46:05.concrete through those talks, which aren't negotiations,
:46:06. > :46:08.before you start negotiating? With me, nobody is concretely
:46:09. > :46:13.speaking about it. Brexit is a big talking point here,
:46:14. > :46:20.and given the scale and complexity of the talking to come,
:46:21. > :46:23.there are those who agree that it The sooner we come up with the final
:46:24. > :46:34.agreement, the better. Everybody would have something
:46:35. > :46:43.to lose, if it was too much Our laws will not be made
:46:44. > :46:50.in Brussels, but in Westminster. The judges interpreting those laws
:46:51. > :46:54.will sit not in Luxembourg... Much will depend now, of course,
:46:55. > :46:57.on Theresa May and how she handles So how are Europe's parliamentarians
:46:58. > :47:05.judging what they are hearing? I think it's good that there is a
:47:06. > :47:15.decision to trigger the Article 50. I think the better thing is that
:47:16. > :47:18.on the UK side there is no agreement on how to negotiate it,
:47:19. > :47:21.or what to negotiate. So tough talks coming up
:47:22. > :47:23.for the UK, you think? Yes, I think it will be tough,
:47:24. > :47:25.although not punishing. So Strasbourg is waiting to hear
:47:26. > :47:28.more, much more, from London. And don't forget, all
:47:29. > :47:30.this really matters. Europe's parliamentarians
:47:31. > :47:35.have a vote on any proposed Brexit deal, and if they don't like it,
:47:36. > :47:55.well, they could veto it. Molly Scott Cato, do you accept we
:47:56. > :47:59.won't be a full member of the single market following Brexit? It seems
:48:00. > :48:03.clear to May has ruled out free movement of labour and ruled out the
:48:04. > :48:07.European Court of Justice having jurisdiction over British law. That
:48:08. > :48:11.pretty much settled for? When we listened to her speech we heard, it
:48:12. > :48:16.sounds like we're going towards hard Brexit and that is how her speech
:48:17. > :48:19.was received in Strasbourg on the European end of the negotiation. I
:48:20. > :48:24.think we should be aware of the great risks that poses to our
:48:25. > :48:26.economy. A lot of jobs in this country, people working for
:48:27. > :48:30.multinational corporations and they are here they are part of the single
:48:31. > :48:35.market and can sell to other countries also part of the single
:48:36. > :48:41.market. Why would the remaining 27 member states want to punish the UK?
:48:42. > :48:46.We import more from the EU than we export. What would be the point of
:48:47. > :48:52.putting punishing tariffs on our goods? We are at risk of seeing this
:48:53. > :48:56.from a British perspective and Tory perspective, about trade and
:48:57. > :49:02.economy. Isn't that important? In terms of France and Germany in the
:49:03. > :49:07.aftermath of the Second World War was about political freedom on the
:49:08. > :49:11.four freedoms underpin that. One of those is freedom of movement, and if
:49:12. > :49:15.we don't accept that, we won't be able to trade freely in the single
:49:16. > :49:18.market. We could have access to the single market and could still get
:49:19. > :49:24.away without having to have the freedom of movement rules. That's a
:49:25. > :49:28.British view. The French Prime Minister... We just heard that.
:49:29. > :49:34.Francois Hollande last nights in Britain will suffer the consequences
:49:35. > :49:39.if they go for what is being termed as they had Brexit, withdrawing, no
:49:40. > :49:44.membership of the single market and not signing up to any freedom of
:49:45. > :49:47.movement. Hollande won't be in place by the time any meaning filled
:49:48. > :49:52.deal... You don't think his successor will feel the same? What's
:49:53. > :49:57.happening here is the European Union is setting out their negotiating
:49:58. > :50:02.position. What we need to do is set out our negotiating position and
:50:03. > :50:05.then you have an negotiation. The danger we have at the moment, it
:50:06. > :50:11.seems to me in British politics that far too many people are hearing a
:50:12. > :50:15.negotiating position coming from the European Union and saying that
:50:16. > :50:20.negotiating position is where we will end up. It's a little bit if I
:50:21. > :50:24.when to buy a car and there was a list price on that car, I will
:50:25. > :50:29.negotiate that price down. I would simply say, the person in the
:50:30. > :50:33.salesroom is telling me this car is this price, there's no possible way
:50:34. > :50:37.of any movement from that. And actually, when you look at the
:50:38. > :50:43.Lisbon Treaty, article eight of the Lisbon Treaty makes it very, very
:50:44. > :50:46.clear, that negotiations will be conducted in a spirit of
:50:47. > :50:51.neighbourliness and cooperation. That might not be the reality. We
:50:52. > :51:00.have heard European leader after European leader say is -- thing if
:51:01. > :51:06.there could be a domino effect. They are going to be talking to. Is that
:51:07. > :51:11.all it is? In the end, won't they just strike a deal that is
:51:12. > :51:15.beneficial for both sides? I think the problem is seeing this as an
:51:16. > :51:19.economic deal-making system. To them is a political structure, a
:51:20. > :51:23.political union they value strongly without those four freedoms, it
:51:24. > :51:28.won't hold together. Their priority is keeping the union together and we
:51:29. > :51:32.are secondary to that, and economic negotiations are secondary to that.
:51:33. > :51:36.Are using the Germans aren't interested in a good economic deal,
:51:37. > :51:40.a good trade deal with the UK outside of the EU? It's not a
:51:41. > :51:45.significant of them as is to ask on its 12% of our economy and only 4%
:51:46. > :51:50.of our economy tied up in his stride. There is three times as much
:51:51. > :51:55.importance for them, for us, in terms of getting it right. Except we
:51:56. > :51:59.just heard from the one -- from one of the MEPs it would be tough talks
:52:00. > :52:02.but not punishing. When you look ahead to invoking Article 50, when
:52:03. > :52:06.the talks really begin and we see exactly whose cards are on the
:52:07. > :52:11.table, will it not be a case that MEPs in Europe will look at it
:52:12. > :52:16.practically and pragmatically and not emotionally? I think in some
:52:17. > :52:21.ways they have to. What would be the point of MEPs if we were to come up
:52:22. > :52:27.with a deal that works the UK, that works for the other EU countries, if
:52:28. > :52:32.we're to come up with a deal that actually recognises the UK's
:52:33. > :52:37.strengths come and frankly that's one thing I want to see Theresa May
:52:38. > :52:41.doing, playing the strong hand we have in many areas. If we came up
:52:42. > :52:44.with a deal that works for everyone, in whose interests would it possibly
:52:45. > :52:49.be for the European Parliament to veto such a deal? Would you think
:52:50. > :52:52.should happen to EU nationals who are here? Should there be a clear
:52:53. > :52:56.statement from the government to save their position and their future
:52:57. > :53:00.is here are 100% guaranteed, as David Davis said but Liam Fox
:53:01. > :53:04.wouldn't? Yes, I think there should be. People who are living and
:53:05. > :53:08.working in the UK legally, we can't say to them, you've got to go back
:53:09. > :53:13.to the country that you've come from. Just like the Spanish
:53:14. > :53:16.government would never say to British citizens living in Spain.
:53:17. > :53:20.They might if there is a negotiation. I think the point is,
:53:21. > :53:24.if we say that's not an issue on the table, then they wouldn't. And
:53:25. > :53:27.frankly, I think the Spanish government would recognise that
:53:28. > :53:30.Brits going out to retire and live abroad in Spain are taking a lot of
:53:31. > :53:34.money on bringing that money into Spain.
:53:35. > :53:37.With many EU countries facing eurosceptic movements of their own,
:53:38. > :53:40.MEPs this week have been discussing a scheme which its backers say
:53:41. > :53:42.could increase positive feelings towards the European Union.
:53:43. > :53:44.The idea is to give every young person across the EU
:53:45. > :53:46.a free inter-rail pass for their eighteenth birthday.
:53:47. > :53:49.The European Commission says it will now consider the proposal.
:53:50. > :53:59.This is a wonderful, enchanting idea.
:54:00. > :54:02.The idea of a free Interrail pass for 18-year-olds,
:54:03. > :54:04.investing in young people, investing in training
:54:05. > :54:06.for European citizenship, enabling people to travel around
:54:07. > :54:08.Europe promoting better understanding and knowledge
:54:09. > :54:20.As we've heard in the past, Europe's all about emotion and one
:54:21. > :54:25.way of feeling emotion is by travelling around
:54:26. > :54:31.the Continent and that's the fundamental idea underpinning
:54:32. > :54:35.this debate and I must say I'm very grateful to the head of the EBP
:54:36. > :54:43.Group for having brought together an idea voiced by many
:54:44. > :54:45.people during the State of the Union speech.
:54:46. > :54:47.Thank you and I love trains and I love transport
:54:48. > :54:50.and I want to continue to make it really easy for young people
:54:51. > :54:54.to travel by train across Europe and across the EU and outside the EU
:54:55. > :55:04.If you spend 361 euros for each 18-year-old in the EU on this
:55:05. > :55:08.hair-brained irrelevance, it will cost 1.9 billion a year.
:55:09. > :55:12.And even by the standards of the EU, this is madness.
:55:13. > :55:16.TRANSLATION: Europe looks like a leaf in the autumn.
:55:17. > :55:18.It is fatigued by its numerous crisis.
:55:19. > :55:21.It is only young people that can transform this European oldsom
:55:22. > :55:30.One of the people behind the campaign for free inter-rail
:55:31. > :55:32.passes for eighteen year olds is Vincent-Immanuel Herr,
:55:33. > :55:44.Welcome to the programme. Why did you launch the campaign? Hello,
:55:45. > :55:49.thanks for having me, it's wonderful to be here. We launch the programme
:55:50. > :55:52.as a result of a inter-rail trip we took ourselves this me and my
:55:53. > :55:57.colleague travelled to 14 European countries. We found out how is
:55:58. > :56:02.important is to experience Europe first hand. Before this trip we were
:56:03. > :56:06.already Europeans in theory, but the trip turned us into Europeans out of
:56:07. > :56:09.experience. It wasn't just textbooks but personal experience. We made
:56:10. > :56:14.friendships, saw the beauty of diversity and made us appreciate
:56:15. > :56:17.Europe much more. I think a lot of European people don't have that
:56:18. > :56:21.opportunity and we really need to give them that opportunity, so all
:56:22. > :56:26.Europeans know what Europe is about. It sounds wonderful but is it worth
:56:27. > :56:30.the money? I think it is absolutely worth the money. 2 billion euros
:56:31. > :56:36.sounds a lot at first, but this is a single-digit percentage of the
:56:37. > :56:41.budget. A very small amount of the EU budget. If you think about the
:56:42. > :56:47.long-term, the systemic effects of this move to strengthen European
:56:48. > :56:50.identity, to foster cross cultural exchange and dialogue between youth
:56:51. > :56:54.and of future generations, I think it is an invaluable programme that
:56:55. > :56:59.will fastly further European integration. Who will it really
:57:00. > :57:03.benefit, do you think, Vincent? You still have to have quite a lot of
:57:04. > :57:07.money as an 18-year-old to fund the accommodation and the time away,
:57:08. > :57:13.even with this sort of money behind it. I think this is a very good
:57:14. > :57:17.point. We have thought about it a lot, talks with MEPs and think tanks
:57:18. > :57:21.about this problem that you are mentioning here. I think the main
:57:22. > :57:25.idea is you kind of level the playing field, that you make the
:57:26. > :57:33.entry into mobility easier for youths across the board, and I think
:57:34. > :57:40.it be worthwhile to build a couch surfing network around this idea,
:57:41. > :57:47.the kind of see into Rela 's help others. Something like air BMB. Yes.
:57:48. > :57:53.I went into railing and at the time it was expensive. Did you go? Yes.
:57:54. > :57:57.Do you think it is a good idea? A great idea. It is good to see young
:57:58. > :58:00.people being positive about Europe, we know young people voted to remain
:58:01. > :58:04.and they see themselves as Europeans. I hope we could
:58:05. > :58:08.participate in this even after we leave the EU. One of your colleagues
:58:09. > :58:14.called this bribery and a rotten apple, that sounds harsh? I think
:58:15. > :58:17.the point is MEPs have been very clear, they say they want to spend
:58:18. > :58:24.taxpayers money, money that people have worked hard to earn, and being
:58:25. > :58:28.taxed on, to provide this so that people can feel more European. And
:58:29. > :58:32.frankly, I think travel is a great thing, I think it's great for young
:58:33. > :58:39.people to travel, but I don't see, personally, that that is around the
:58:40. > :58:45.boundaries of the European Union. My brother had a great time going out
:58:46. > :58:49.to Malawi and working as an aid worker for six months. Let me just
:58:50. > :58:57.get Vincent to respond. Very briefly, we any have a few seconds.
:58:58. > :59:03.I think in a way this is taking the benefits of Rasmussen and applying
:59:04. > :59:05.them to use. It is one of the most successful programmes that has
:59:06. > :59:11.brought youth together and this would bring all youth together. I
:59:12. > :59:19.think it would really benefit all of us so much, and move this continent
:59:20. > :59:24.forward, including young Brits... It will include young Brits? At least
:59:25. > :59:32.for now, yes. That is it for now from all of us, Cabaye. -- goodbye.