:00:36. > :00:41.Afternoon, folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.The Foreign Secretary has called for more "kinetic" action to stop
:00:44. > :00:49.But do increasing tensions between Russia and the West mean
:00:50. > :00:52.an end to the bloodshed is further away than ever?
:00:53. > :00:57.The President of the European Council, Donald Tusk,
:00:58. > :01:00.says the UK can't have its cake and eat it.
:01:01. > :01:02.Is he right that the only alternative to hard
:01:03. > :01:08.Theresa May would like to end the ban on new selective
:01:09. > :01:12.But - even if she gets them through the Commons -
:01:13. > :01:16.could her plans be scuppered in the Lords?
:01:17. > :01:19.Nicola Sturgeon says that if she doesn't like the look
:01:20. > :01:21.of Theresa May's Brexit deal, she'll call a second
:01:22. > :01:26.So which union do delegates at the SNP conference prefer -
:01:27. > :01:46.The fact I voted Brexit I would still vote the EU over the UK. You
:01:47. > :01:49.voted to leave? You are in the SNP. I thought they did not exist!
:01:50. > :01:52.All that in the next hour, and who better to react to those
:01:53. > :01:53.stories than the editor of the website
:01:54. > :01:58.And the journalist Rosa Prince, whose biography of Theresa May
:01:59. > :02:05.And we'll start with Theresa May because she's meeting a gaggle,
:02:06. > :02:11.or whatever the collective term is, of British Ambassadors
:02:12. > :02:22.Britain in the other EU member states.
:02:23. > :02:26.for strong relations with our European partners to pave
:02:27. > :02:28.the way for smooth Brexit negotiations.
:02:29. > :02:31.Theresa May herself has been on a tour of European capitals this
:02:32. > :02:33.week where she emphasised that the decision to leave
:02:34. > :02:35.the EU did not mean the UK retreating into isolationism.
:02:36. > :02:49.Last night the President of the European Council,
:02:50. > :02:52.that's the body that represents heads of government of the EU,
:02:53. > :02:54.warned that Britain could not have its cake and eat it.
:02:55. > :02:58.The brutal truth is that Brexit will be a loss for all of us.
:02:59. > :03:01.There will be no cakes on the table for anyone.
:03:02. > :03:10.If you ask me if there is any alternative to this bad scenario,
:03:11. > :03:13.I would like to tell you that yes, there is.
:03:14. > :03:16.And I think it is useless to speculate about soft Brexit,
:03:17. > :03:22.because of all the reasons I've mentioned.
:03:23. > :03:26.This would be purely theoretical speculation.
:03:27. > :03:28.In my opinion, the only real alternative to a hard
:03:29. > :03:45.That was Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council. Has he cuts
:03:46. > :03:50.through a lot of nonsense spoken in this country? It is quite clear, if
:03:51. > :03:54.we are not going to be in the single market as a member, which is the
:03:55. > :04:01.implication of everything the government tells us, then it is what
:04:02. > :04:07.we are calling a hard Brexit, we are out the single market? I so. I am
:04:08. > :04:12.not sure where the idea came from it could be any other way. One thing
:04:13. > :04:16.that came through loud and clear during the referendum was people
:04:17. > :04:21.were unhappy about levels of immigration and migration from the
:04:22. > :04:24.EU, which means no freedom of movement and no membership of the
:04:25. > :04:29.single market. There were food metaphors flying around, and I think
:04:30. > :04:34.that is the nub of the issue. What the government will have to try to
:04:35. > :04:39.do is somehow forge, perhaps that is why ambassadors are there, forge
:04:40. > :04:45.relationships separately with these countries. George Osborne, David
:04:46. > :04:49.Cameron made it clear, saying during the referendum campaign that a vote
:04:50. > :04:55.to leave is a vote to leave the single market. Why is this still an
:04:56. > :05:01.issue? I disagree slightly on the Donald Tusk speech. To me it is
:05:02. > :05:06.standard diplomacy and business negotiation. He is laying out a hard
:05:07. > :05:11.position on behalf of the government 's who will decide, rather than the
:05:12. > :05:18.commission and European Parliament. That is how negotiations work. I
:05:19. > :05:22.think you are right, Andrew, but there are various ways to leave it
:05:23. > :05:30.and there is the possibility of a soft -ish Brexit, a compromise on
:05:31. > :05:34.quotas and immigration, some copper wires on the City of London, is
:05:35. > :05:39.certainly feasible. We are focused on the British angle but the biggest
:05:40. > :05:44.obstacle is European politics, the 27 are not speaking as one, despite
:05:45. > :05:51.what Donald Tusk indicated. Europe is extremely fragile. You look at
:05:52. > :05:56.how the Hungarians are attempting to bully the Germans. The French
:05:57. > :06:00.elections coming up, Austria, the Italian banks, Deutsche Bank. Donald
:06:01. > :06:04.Tusk is saying what he has to say, it is the beginning of a
:06:05. > :06:13.negotiation, but I think hopefully there is at some point room for
:06:14. > :06:16.compromise. When Mrs May trigger 's Article 50 to begin the Brexit
:06:17. > :06:21.process sometime in the first quarter of next year, for all the
:06:22. > :06:25.reasons he has given, German and French elections, the turmoil, not
:06:26. > :06:30.much will happen until we see the new face of Europe. One asked how
:06:31. > :06:35.they could do negotiations until they know who they are negotiating
:06:36. > :06:45.with. Francois Hollande might not be there. Angela Merkel could be the
:06:46. > :06:50.walking wounded after an election. This one, I think that is right. We
:06:51. > :06:55.can have a clearer picture in March, I think that is a fallacy. It will
:06:56. > :07:01.take a couple of years at the very least. There is a tendency in
:07:02. > :07:12.debilitating to see every story through the prism of Brexit, or from
:07:13. > :07:18.the agenda of the Remain and Leave people. The Marmite story would not
:07:19. > :07:22.have been touched had it not been for Brexit. People decided to pursue
:07:23. > :07:27.it for their own agenda. It is difficult and I speak as someone who
:07:28. > :07:34.is a moderate lever. It applies on both sides, people leap on stories
:07:35. > :07:40.that appear to confirm the position they were attached to four months
:07:41. > :07:46.ago. The media is complicit, keeping on looking for a Brexit angle.
:07:47. > :07:51.Unilever and Tesco constantly have negotiations which we never cover
:07:52. > :07:55.but because there might be a Brexit angle, suddenly it is leading every
:07:56. > :08:01.newscast and is on the front page of every paper. It took us a while to
:08:02. > :08:05.catch up that Unilever had also asked, all told the Irish
:08:06. > :08:10.supermarkets, it was putting up prices there and the last time I
:08:11. > :08:17.looked island is not leaving and uses the euro. The head of PR for
:08:18. > :08:20.Tesco deserves a bonus! It applies to the pound and the way the
:08:21. > :08:25.fluctuations of the pound are reported. Of course there are
:08:26. > :08:31.downsides but there are upsides with a tourist boom under way in the UK
:08:32. > :08:36.and exports should flourish. Prices will rise, there is no doubt about
:08:37. > :08:38.that, but we have a long way to go. I am glad we have you here today.
:08:39. > :08:41.Let's have a quits. The question for today
:08:42. > :08:45.is all about the United Nations, which yesterday appointed
:08:46. > :08:47.Antonio Guterres as its At the end of the show we'll
:08:48. > :09:06.see if Rosa and Iain Now, yesterday, Nicola Sturgeon
:09:07. > :09:16.surprised the SNP conference in Glasgow by announcing right
:09:17. > :09:19.from its start that she would next week publish a consultation
:09:20. > :09:22.on a bill for a second independence She has said she wants Theresa May
:09:23. > :09:26.to negotiate a Brexit deal that would enable Scotland to remain
:09:27. > :09:29.in the single market after the UK leaves the EU,
:09:30. > :09:33.and Scotland would have the right to hold a second independence
:09:34. > :09:38.referendum if that isn't achieved. Here's what she had to say
:09:39. > :09:43.on Breakfast this morning. I think the UK right now
:09:44. > :09:46.is potentially about to take a step off the edge of a cliff by coming
:09:47. > :09:49.out of the single market, and I don't want that
:09:50. > :09:52.to happen to Scotland. I actually don't want that
:09:53. > :09:55.to happen to the UK. I respect the fact that England
:09:56. > :09:59.and Wales voted to leave the EU, but I don't think the Prime Minister
:10:00. > :10:02.has a mandate to take the UK out I want to explore every option
:10:03. > :10:08.to protect Scotland's vital economic interests,
:10:09. > :10:10.and I set out very clearly yesterday how I will try to do that,
:10:11. > :10:13.and try to do that in discussion But ultimately, if the Prime
:10:14. > :10:19.Minister and the UK Government doesn't listen, if they are intent
:10:20. > :10:22.on ignoring Scotland's voice, then I think Scotland should
:10:23. > :10:24.have the option to consider again So that's what the first Minister
:10:25. > :10:31.thinks - but what about her party? Our Adam's been out with his balls
:10:32. > :10:35.in Glasgow to find out which Union Well, let's test the mood
:10:36. > :10:43.of SNP activists here in Glasgow with this question -
:10:44. > :10:45.which union do you prefer, Well, some of the rules I don't
:10:46. > :10:57.like, some of the rules I Its openness and inclusiveness,
:10:58. > :11:04.definitely compared to the UK we are
:11:05. > :11:06.seeing at present. Has the UK got anything
:11:07. > :11:10.good going for it? I just feel that the way the EU
:11:11. > :11:18.is run, with everybody being equal. You know, different countries
:11:19. > :11:20.all coming together. Do you think Malta has
:11:21. > :11:27.as much power as Germany? No, I don't mean that,
:11:28. > :11:30.I think it's the outlook. Despite the fact I voted Brexit,
:11:31. > :11:45.I'd still pick the EU over the UK. Grab a ball, the Daily
:11:46. > :12:10.Politics, grab a ball. I think it's time, sooner rather
:12:11. > :12:13.than later, that we get When would you ideally
:12:14. > :12:16.like to have the next referendum? Has Nicola Sturgeon got the power
:12:17. > :12:20.to have another referendum? I think it's Westminster has
:12:21. > :12:25.the power. Scotland's voice is being heard,
:12:26. > :12:36.and will continue to do so. And the vessel at the moment
:12:37. > :12:38.is Nicola Sturgeon. She is the vessel for
:12:39. > :12:44.the people of Scotland. Which union do
:12:45. > :12:53.Because I am a European citizen, and I don't want my human rights
:12:54. > :13:01."I'm with Nicola", well, you're with Nicola.
:13:02. > :13:09.He did actually, and it was a surprise this morning.
:13:10. > :13:17."The Scottish lion has roared, Alex Salmond, 8th of May 2015."
:13:18. > :13:20.Are you proud to have Alex Salmond on your chest?
:13:21. > :13:38.What do you think about the five people that have put balls in there?
:13:39. > :13:40.I don't know who they are, are they journalists?
:13:41. > :13:43.No, they were people at the conference, apart from one
:13:44. > :13:45.guy who was just walking through the conference venue.
:13:46. > :13:47.It's interesting, and they are voices we should listen
:13:48. > :13:50.to as we take discussions forward in the future.
:13:51. > :13:52.You're not going to hunt them down and kick them out?
:13:53. > :13:54.Absolutely not, we're not that kind of party.
:13:55. > :13:58.Which union do you prefer, the UK or the EU?
:13:59. > :14:01.Well, it doesn't get much more conclusive than that.
:14:02. > :14:05.It would be even more so if it wasn't for the impostor just walking
:14:06. > :14:12.through the conference centre, who put that one in.
:14:13. > :14:16.We're joined now by the SNP's Mike Russell, who is
:14:17. > :14:18.the Scottish Minister for UK Negotiations on Scotland's
:14:19. > :14:43.If as Britain heads for the door it is clear that that will involve no
:14:44. > :14:50.longer having membership of the single market, will that trigger an
:14:51. > :14:53.independence referendum in Scotland? Well, I think Nicola was clear. We
:14:54. > :14:58.are at the stage of looking at the options that we have. One of those
:14:59. > :15:02.options is independence, is right to prepare for those options, and
:15:03. > :15:07.that's what we are starting to do. My job is to discuss those options
:15:08. > :15:10.with those who are formulating them, including a la cancelled advisers to
:15:11. > :15:17.negotiate on those options. Independence is of course an option.
:15:18. > :15:25.Just to be clear, is membership of the single market a red line? If it
:15:26. > :15:30.is clear in coming out the United Kingdom will not be a member, it
:15:31. > :15:36.will have access but not have membership of the single market, you
:15:37. > :15:41.would want a second referendum? Membership of the single market is
:15:42. > :15:46.extremely important to us. Free movement of labour is important. 9%
:15:47. > :15:51.of our doctors, 12% of our care staff come from the EU. It is of
:15:52. > :15:55.great importance. There are no negotiations yet with the UK
:15:56. > :16:15.Government that had been slow in starting. There aren't red
:16:16. > :16:22.would you want a referendum before Britain left the EQ or would you
:16:23. > :16:27.wait until afterwards? We haven't even started those discussions yet.
:16:28. > :16:31.It would be premature of me to talk about timing. There is opinion and
:16:32. > :16:37.advice on both sides of that. You are always well read in these
:16:38. > :16:41.matters. The important stage we are in is to consider the options to
:16:42. > :16:45.negotiate with the UK Government. They've been slow on that and some
:16:46. > :16:50.of the noises are not at all helpful. To have those negotiations
:16:51. > :16:54.and to come to the conclusion. The Scottish Parliament asked the
:16:55. > :16:58.Scottish Government to do that. We are fulfilling that mandate. We also
:16:59. > :17:03.have a mandate from the Scottish people. 62% voted not to leave.
:17:04. > :17:10.That's a very important issue in this nation. They did indeed but
:17:11. > :17:13.there is no polling to suggest their demand for another referendum has
:17:14. > :17:18.got any higher despite they didn't get their way in the Brexit
:17:19. > :17:21.referendum. You only had a referendum a couple of years ago and
:17:22. > :17:50.here you are talking about another one because you did that time round.
:17:51. > :17:56.There has been a material change in the circumstances and that is a
:17:57. > :18:01.phrase we used in our manifesto. There has been a material change. We
:18:02. > :18:07.were promised in the referendum voting no would mean staying in the
:18:08. > :18:10.EU. It did not turn out that way. We have an opportunity to look at our
:18:11. > :18:17.national future and look at all the options. It may be a deal-breaker,
:18:18. > :18:22.it may be a watershed event for you and those behind you in the SNP but
:18:23. > :18:27.I struggle to find evidence it is a watershed event for people in
:18:28. > :18:34.Scotland. The latest polling is 47% of people do not want a second
:18:35. > :18:42.referendum as against 38% to do. Again, a clear majority. A clear
:18:43. > :18:45.lead of people who don't want one. You do. You are not necessarily in
:18:46. > :18:48.tune with the Scottish people on this. I would advise you to the cook
:18:49. > :18:53.the detail of the poll more carefully. Look at the question
:18:54. > :18:59.asked about hard Brexit. What we are seeing from the UK Government. In
:19:00. > :19:03.those circumstances people want a second referendum. We are seeing the
:19:04. > :19:08.hardest of Brexits and we are seeing the reaction from Brussels. Which is
:19:09. > :19:12.if that is what the UK Government say they want to Donald Tusk is
:19:13. > :19:21.saying you can have it. We are in difficult times and we need to apply
:19:22. > :19:23.rationality which is looking we consider the options, decide on the
:19:24. > :19:29.options and move forward. That is what we are going to do and is what
:19:30. > :19:34.we are engaged on. It is the default position. You harp on about a
:19:35. > :19:40.referendum until you win one. I don't harp on about anything. We
:19:41. > :19:45.have known each other for years and we have a rational conversation. The
:19:46. > :19:50.circumstances in Scotland require us to consider that question again as
:19:51. > :19:54.part of a range of options. That is what Nicholas said, that is what I
:19:55. > :19:58.said today, that is what the party is saying. We will look at the
:19:59. > :20:04.options, come to a conclusion, and we should be ready for all options,
:20:05. > :20:12.including independence. You will be familiar with the fact that the
:20:13. > :20:18.Quebec generational obsession with independence cost the Quebec economy
:20:19. > :20:23.dear. It was an advantage to Toronto and a loss to Montreal during these
:20:24. > :20:26.years, because of the constitutional issue that created uncertainty. Do
:20:27. > :20:50.you not fear the same for the Scottish economy?
:20:51. > :20:57.The plunge in the pound to its lowest level, the way in which
:20:58. > :21:01.businesses are looking at investing elsewhere, the warning from the
:21:02. > :21:05.Japanese government, as a result of a Tory obsession with Europe that is
:21:06. > :21:09.costing us dear. The options we consider will have to be the options
:21:10. > :21:17.that get us out of that position and that includes independence. Your
:21:18. > :21:23.country has a massive fiscal deficit and the oil industry a key part of
:21:24. > :21:27.the economy is in decline and the financial services, the second part
:21:28. > :21:32.of your economy are seriously depleted and your girth rate is
:21:33. > :21:36.lacklustre. Should you concentrate on these -- growth rate. Should you
:21:37. > :21:39.concentrate on these issues that matter to Scottish people rather
:21:40. > :21:45.than the referendum. We should be concentrating on the way in which we
:21:46. > :21:50.improve our economy, we improve our democracy and social cohesion. The
:21:51. > :22:00.options we are looking at our options
:22:01. > :22:04.we are considering under Brexit. The decline in Scotland would become
:22:05. > :22:06.much worse, precipitous, would we to go along with what the Tories want
:22:07. > :22:09.with Brexit. That is a disaster. You talk about the financial sector,
:22:10. > :22:13.thousands of jobs would be lost with no single market. That is the
:22:14. > :22:16.reality of where the union has taken Scotland and I think the people of
:22:17. > :22:22.Scotland will want to look at options. My job is to consider the
:22:23. > :22:26.options and negotiate on them. There is no decision about which option is
:22:27. > :22:31.needed but the portrait you paint a Scotland is not only inaccurate now,
:22:32. > :22:37.but it could become true if Brexit has its way. I am not sure anything
:22:38. > :22:44.I said is factually inaccurate. John Swinney, a collie, said it would be
:22:45. > :22:47.the intention, even in a second independence referendum, with
:22:48. > :22:53.England out of the EU but Scotland in, that you would want to use the
:22:54. > :22:59.pound sterling. By what stretch of the imagination would you think
:23:00. > :23:04.Brussels would allow you to join the EU and use a currency of a country
:23:05. > :23:09.not in the EU? It would be a kindness to use the pound given its
:23:10. > :23:13.lack of strength at the moment. We might be doing the rest of the UK a
:23:14. > :23:18.favour. Those negotiations for another time. The present situation
:23:19. > :23:21.is looking for options we had and taking them forward. That is what we
:23:22. > :23:31.are determined to do and that is what we are going to do. Thanks for
:23:32. > :23:35.joining us. Iain Martin, to what extent is this talk of a second
:23:36. > :23:39.referendum, and she came right onto the stage, at the start of the
:23:40. > :23:45.conference, she even surprised her own delegates by bringing it up so
:23:46. > :23:49.quickly, but to what extent is this positioning for a second referendum
:23:50. > :23:56.or party management? It is a bit of both but I think it should be taken
:23:57. > :24:02.seriously. I think she will take that option if the polls are aligned
:24:03. > :24:11.and if Brexit goes badly and if for example the UK was in recession. The
:24:12. > :24:14.biggest advantage the SNP have and it is shown by the scale of their
:24:15. > :24:18.conference, is this incredible organisation and this amazing
:24:19. > :24:22.membership. Activists on the ground, digital operation. The question for
:24:23. > :24:26.Unionists, who just about got away with it last time, better together,
:24:27. > :24:32.the old Labour generation that helped to win the referendum last
:24:33. > :24:37.time are gone. Who will be the force is arguing for the union? Certainly
:24:38. > :24:43.Ruth Davidson. Will it be Theresa May, is that a plus? I think they
:24:44. > :24:49.are setting it up so that if circumstances align, she will go for
:24:50. > :24:56.it. She says she is keeping her options open. In some ways the bar
:24:57. > :25:01.for independence is higher than in 2014. It is possible Scotland could
:25:02. > :25:04.vote for independence, or indeed it will probably have to vote for
:25:05. > :25:11.independence without knowing if it is going to be allowed to join the
:25:12. > :25:15.EU, and given the size of the deficit and the currency, I find it
:25:16. > :25:20.inconceivable Brussels would allow a member country joining to use the
:25:21. > :25:25.pound. It would almost certainly have to go for the euro. If Scotland
:25:26. > :25:30.found itself out of the UK and then out of the EU. You spoke about
:25:31. > :25:35.newspapers tying everything onto Brexit, I think the SNP is guilty of
:25:36. > :25:41.that, trying to say now is the time for another referendum because of
:25:42. > :25:45.Brexit. I can see the logic but it seems a stretch. The Scottish people
:25:46. > :25:50.have referendum fatigue, it does not seem to be the time while everything
:25:51. > :25:58.is in the air for it to happen. I kind of see the SNP leadership would
:25:59. > :26:06.not want it, with the polls. The SNP has a powerful point when they say
:26:07. > :26:09.in the last Scottish referendum, the Unionists, it was argued that
:26:10. > :26:14.Scotland could seamlessly joined the EU. The union said the only sure way
:26:15. > :26:21.of Scotland remaining a member of the EU was to stay in the UK. How
:26:22. > :26:32.did that work out? It did not work out. A load of nonsense.
:26:33. > :26:36.It is a question to which no one can know the answer. The lesson they
:26:37. > :26:41.draw from the EU referendum is people are prepared to take an
:26:42. > :26:45.economic gamble for self-government taking back control. They studied
:26:46. > :26:51.the referendum carefully. Their gamble is Project Fear, or something
:26:52. > :26:56.like it, or a warning about the size of the deficit, the oil industry,
:26:57. > :27:01.all of that somehow will not apply if there is a second referendum. And
:27:02. > :27:07.as the SNP point out they are starting from a higher base with the
:27:08. > :27:12.activist network. And they are closer in the polls, although they
:27:13. > :27:14.are behind, closer to when the first referendum started.
:27:15. > :27:17.Now, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has called a meeting with US
:27:18. > :27:19.Secretary of State John Kerry and other foreign ministers
:27:20. > :27:21.this weekend to consider a new way forward to resolve
:27:22. > :27:25.But with tensions rising between Russia and the United States
:27:26. > :27:29.following an attack on a UN aid convoy in Aleppo last month,
:27:30. > :27:35.Last night, the new UN Secretary-General called
:27:36. > :27:38.on the international community to broker a solution to a conflict
:27:39. > :27:44.that has already claimed hundreds of thousands of lives.
:27:45. > :27:46.Antonio Guterres said ending the conflict in Syria
:27:47. > :27:54.He was one of many world leaders who spoke out on the ongoing
:27:55. > :28:00.On Monday, France's President Hollande suggested Russian officials
:28:01. > :28:09.could face war crimes charges over the ongoing bombardment of Aleppo.
:28:10. > :28:12.Russian leader Vladimir Putin dismissed the suggestions,
:28:13. > :28:14.telling French media the accusations were rhetoric
:28:15. > :28:16.that did not take into account the realities in Syria.
:28:17. > :28:19.Meanwhile, Boris Johnson said Russia was in danger of becoming a pariah
:28:20. > :28:25.nation, during an emergency debate held in Parliament on Tuesday.
:28:26. > :28:27.The Foreign Secretary also called for demonstrations outside
:28:28. > :28:36.Moscow hit back by accusing him of Russophobic hysteria,
:28:37. > :28:41.while Russian officials in London criticised his comments on Twitter.
:28:42. > :28:46.Some MPs have called for a no-fly zone over Aleppo,
:28:47. > :28:51.which would involve Western powers being prepared to destroy Russian
:28:52. > :28:53.and Syrian war planes and air defences.
:28:54. > :28:58.Others have urged for so-called no-bombing zones to create safe
:28:59. > :29:01.areas and protect civilians. Those military options seemed a step
:29:02. > :29:08.closer yesterday when Boris Johnson told MPs it was time to consider
:29:09. > :29:16.more "kinetic" action to stop Aleppo being "pulverised".
:29:17. > :29:23.You might puzzle over what kinetic means. Do not do that too much.
:29:24. > :29:25.Because within hours, his comments were played
:29:26. > :29:28.spokesman, who said, "There are no plans
:29:29. > :29:31.As mentioned, that statement from the Prime Minister's
:29:32. > :29:33.office was in response to Boris Johnson's comments
:29:34. > :29:34.to the Foreign Affairs Select Committee.
:29:35. > :29:36.Let's hear more of what he had to say.
:29:37. > :29:41.Most people, I think, are now changing their minds
:29:42. > :29:45.about this and thinking, we can't let this go on for ever,
:29:46. > :29:47.we can't just see Aleppo pulverised in this way, we have
:29:48. > :29:51.And I thought the mood of the House of Commons the other
:29:52. > :30:02.Whether that means we can get a coalition together for more
:30:03. > :30:08.kinetic action now, I cannot prophesy, but certainly
:30:09. > :30:12.what most people want to see is a new set of options.
:30:13. > :30:15.Here with me to discuss this further are Dr Karin von
:30:16. > :30:17.Hippel, Director-General of the Royal United
:30:18. > :30:33.Doctor, there is a lot of hand-wringing, a lot of something
:30:34. > :30:40.must be done. Are we any clearer what could be done? At this stage it
:30:41. > :30:45.is difficult. The only real option I think to get the Russians to change
:30:46. > :30:50.behaviour is using force in some capacity, whether it is a no-fly
:30:51. > :30:55.zone, no bombing zone, but both would require shooting down Russian
:30:56. > :30:59.jets and I'm not sure the Obama administration is ready to do that.
:31:00. > :31:03.At this stage in the American election cycle, looking at a
:31:04. > :31:10.president who has tried to withdraw his country from the Middle East,
:31:11. > :31:13.over the eight years in power, is it conceivable he would want to get
:31:14. > :31:18.dragged in in the final two months of his presidency? He has said many
:31:19. > :31:22.times force is not an option and that has put secretary Kerry in a
:31:23. > :31:26.bad position because he can only do so much finger wagging with the
:31:27. > :31:32.Russians with nothing in his back pocket. I do not think Obama will do
:31:33. > :31:37.anything. Potentially some sort of escalation after the results are in
:31:38. > :31:40.from the election because it is possible that any negative happening
:31:41. > :31:47.security wise would only benefit Donald Trump's candidacy. John
:31:48. > :31:53.Woodcock, if there is no stomach in the White House for a no-fly zone,
:31:54. > :31:57.or a no bombing zone, I'm not sure of the difference, but if there is
:31:58. > :32:03.no stomach for that, it is not going to happen? It is very difficult if
:32:04. > :32:09.the US does not want to be part of the coalition but there are options.
:32:10. > :32:13.Let me quickly say what I think is the difference between a no-fly zone
:32:14. > :32:19.and no bombing zone. I agreed with so much with what my colleague said
:32:20. > :32:23.just then. The no bombing zone option would not entail shooting
:32:24. > :32:28.down Russian planes. I understand why, for many, that would be an
:32:29. > :32:34.aggravation. How would you enforce it? What the Syrians suggest and I
:32:35. > :32:41.was in Istanbul last week, talking to the exiled opposition leadership,
:32:42. > :32:50.they are saying there would be a response for every time there was a
:32:51. > :32:54.strike by Russia or Syria deliberately on civilians. They
:32:55. > :32:58.would be a response from the coalition to target Assad's military
:32:59. > :33:03.infrastructure so we would not be shooting down planes in the air and
:33:04. > :33:08.we would not target Russia, we would target the regime of Assad,
:33:09. > :33:13.primarily using naval assets, missiles rather than the potential
:33:14. > :33:17.for getting involved in any dogfight over Syrian airspace. And what if
:33:18. > :33:25.the Russians decide to put Russian forces to protect this
:33:26. > :33:29.infrastructure? I don't think Russia is wanting a conflict with the west.
:33:30. > :33:37.It has nothing like the capacity to do that. Its economy is in very
:33:38. > :33:42.severe recession. There is a place for Russia as a constructive
:33:43. > :33:49.partner, but the need for us to step up the degree of firmness where we
:33:50. > :33:54.are putting military options on the table is because Vladimir Putin has
:33:55. > :33:59.sensed the weakness from the west from 2013, that vote, and before
:34:00. > :34:03.that. He cares nothing for the humanitarian consequences of what he
:34:04. > :34:08.is doing. He does not care about being a pariah state in the UN. He
:34:09. > :34:12.will push and push as long as he feels there is a weakness in the
:34:13. > :34:17.rest of the international community that will letting get away with it.
:34:18. > :34:22.Let me pin you down. There is a lot of something must be done rhetoric,
:34:23. > :34:28.but it is important to work out what it means. Supposing in the no
:34:29. > :34:30.bombing zone, the Russians put anti-missile batteries around the
:34:31. > :34:35.Syrian infrastructure that you might want to bomb and in the process of
:34:36. > :34:36.bombing you take out Russian antimissile batteries? What will
:34:37. > :34:46.happen? Russia will only end up being part
:34:47. > :34:52.of this confrontation if it makes itself. If it wants actively to be
:34:53. > :34:59.so. I do not think when push comes to shove, Russia wants to do that.
:35:00. > :35:04.You don't know, do you? Undoubtedly there will be a ramping up of the
:35:05. > :35:10.rhetoric from President Putin. The alternative has been to effectively
:35:11. > :35:16.to protest, to say Russia don't do this. But to do nothing while it
:35:17. > :35:21.does more and more, it has unilaterally invaded another
:35:22. > :35:27.European country, in the Ukraine... We know all that. There seems to be
:35:28. > :35:30.no public appetite. How many people would be outside the American
:35:31. > :35:36.embassy if it was the Americans dropping barrel bombs on Aleppo? The
:35:37. > :35:39.point that was made... Thousands, thousands. How many Labour
:35:40. > :35:45.colleagues have been outside the Russian Embassy, given that Russia
:35:46. > :35:49.has been complicit in barrel bombing? It was an important point
:35:50. > :35:53.made about the strained double standards of the stop the War
:35:54. > :36:00.coalition run by the Socialist workers party, in hock with Seumas
:36:01. > :36:05.Milne the spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn, in relentlessly targeting
:36:06. > :36:12.America and the West. Which undoubtedly have made severe
:36:13. > :36:16.mistakes. Allowing Russia and President Putin to get away with
:36:17. > :36:20.these horrific atrocities where civilians are being very
:36:21. > :36:23.deliberately targeted, as every single hospital in Syria has been
:36:24. > :36:31.bombed. People are being killed every day by the regime. We do not
:36:32. > :36:38.have two months or three months to wait which is why I am pushing for
:36:39. > :36:42.more action now. People see the atrocities on their screens, they
:36:43. > :36:52.would like to do something but not what. But they must also think if
:36:53. > :37:01.dropping bombs was a solution in Syria, Syria would have been
:37:02. > :37:07.resolved a long while ago. Don't forget the US is already bombing in
:37:08. > :37:18.Syria with the UK and others, targeting Isil. Is rushed -- is
:37:19. > :37:21.Russia bombing Isil? No. The real challenge for the Russians if
:37:22. > :37:28.nothing happens is they will need some sort of ground offensive. I
:37:29. > :37:34.don't think it will go over very well having Christian troops inside
:37:35. > :37:40.on the ground. Sometimes the horse has just bolted. And it's been a
:37:41. > :37:45.consequence of American foreign policy, and to a lesser extent,
:37:46. > :37:50.European foreign policy as well, that a vacuum was created in the
:37:51. > :37:55.Syrian zone, Russia has filled it. In a way, despite the terrible
:37:56. > :37:59.pictures, the reality may be was that we lost our opportunity. Russia
:38:00. > :38:04.has filled that vacuum and there's not much we can do about it now.
:38:05. > :38:08.Russia has filled the vacuum but if Aleppo is depopulated, the Syrian
:38:09. > :38:11.regime doesn't have the strength to hold it so there will be another
:38:12. > :38:16.vacuum filled by more terrorist groups. If Russia is worried about
:38:17. > :38:22.Aleppo being a terrorist magnet now, guess what it'll be later. I'm happy
:38:23. > :38:26.that Boris and the MPs are putting this on the table. The more
:38:27. > :38:30.attention that is paid to Aleppo, the more policymakers are forced to
:38:31. > :38:34.discuss this and come up with some option. Whether it's a no-fly or no
:38:35. > :38:39.bomb, there's got to be something in between that can be done. We're
:38:40. > :38:45.putting it on the table, Rosa, but there seems to me to be no stomach
:38:46. > :38:49.in Downing Street or the White House to do more than look at options.
:38:50. > :38:53.That's quite right. It was very interesting the speed with which
:38:54. > :38:58.Downing Street pretty much slapped down Boris Johnson. His was perhaps
:38:59. > :39:03.an admirable statement. It was an emotional response, he obviously
:39:04. > :39:27.feels strongly about the refugee situation,
:39:28. > :39:41.about eight months old and in charge of ways. She's Brexit, she's got to
:39:42. > :39:46.live up to her rhetoric at the conference. She's got Heathrow
:39:47. > :39:51.expansion coming around the corner next week. She's a Middle East
:39:52. > :40:02.entanglements like a hole in the head. Not a shortage of sophistry.
:40:03. > :40:07.She's practical and hothouses of outfit. It seems to me this is the
:40:08. > :40:16.ultimate in point of Fifa mussels worldview. After Afghanistan and the
:40:17. > :40:28.Rock you get a swing away from interventionism and America
:40:29. > :40:33.withdraws. When America decides not to lead from the front or take a
:40:34. > :40:35.serious interest in the Middle East, the Russians fill a vacuum. All that
:40:36. > :41:00.Putin wants, dreadful though he John Woodcock, hadn't you and your
:41:01. > :41:08.party being complicit in helping to create the vacuum. We had drawn a
:41:09. > :41:12.red line under the Syrian chemical weapons and backed away several
:41:13. > :41:17.years ago as did President Obama. You voted for air strikes against
:41:18. > :41:22.so-called Islamic State in Syria last December but by then it was
:41:23. > :41:28.probably too late, the Russians were on the ground and increasingly
:41:29. > :41:35.ensconced in the region. I regretted deeply the decision not to take
:41:36. > :41:43.action once we had drawn a red line against that. But we cannot do
:41:44. > :41:46.foreign affairs and intervention on the basis of not wanting to have
:41:47. > :41:52.started from here and wishing things had gone differently. It has been
:41:53. > :41:55.made hugely more difficult by the intervention of Russia, but the
:41:56. > :42:01.consequences of standing back over the last years have been civilians
:42:02. > :42:06.dying in horrific numbers and a member of the permanent Security
:42:07. > :42:11.Council not simply being too careless in the way it has been
:42:12. > :42:16.bombing but deliberately targeting civilians in an open war crimes of
:42:17. > :42:21.the whole of the rest of the international community to see, on a
:42:22. > :42:23.daily basis, while we do nothing. Of course government is difficult and
:42:24. > :42:32.the Prime Minister has a lot of things on her to-do list. But I
:42:33. > :42:36.think the world cannot really afford to pay a heavy price if we don't act
:42:37. > :42:41.now to put President Putin back into the sense of needing to act within
:42:42. > :42:44.the international framework which the UN sets out rather than this
:42:45. > :42:53.rogue state which is appearing to be now. At times heart-rending issues.
:42:54. > :42:54.I am grateful to you for joining us today and going through them with
:42:55. > :42:54.us. Now, Theresa May wants to lift
:42:55. > :42:57.the ban on new grammar But the policy was not
:42:58. > :43:04.in the Conservative manifesto They did say they were prepared to
:43:05. > :43:12.expand existing grammar schools. So what peers think
:43:13. > :43:14.matters and yesterday There is a diversity
:43:15. > :43:22.of education in this country And no one's going to have a grammar
:43:23. > :43:36.school forced upon them We all should believe in choice
:43:37. > :43:42.and nor should any of us seek to deprive others of what we
:43:43. > :43:47.ourselves have benefited from. It was a German Chancellor who once
:43:48. > :43:49.said the problem with some on the political right
:43:50. > :43:52.is that they promise to the many what they know they will only be
:43:53. > :43:55.able to deliver to the few. If one is imposed into an area,
:43:56. > :44:00.or a transfer takes place to make an existing school selective,
:44:01. > :44:02.the parents, the children who would have expected
:44:03. > :44:07.to go to that school, who would have had expectation
:44:08. > :44:12.of high-quality education for themselves or their child,
:44:13. > :44:14.will find themselves excluded It's morally wrong, it's
:44:15. > :44:20.philosophically wrong, it's practically impossible to implement,
:44:21. > :44:22.and I do pray that the government will think again and place emphasis
:44:23. > :44:26.on raising standards for all, The very notion that
:44:27. > :44:35.by reintroducing selection, the people that this policy
:44:36. > :44:40.is intended to attract will suddenly find their children -
:44:41. > :44:43.let's say the traditional white working-class - would find
:44:44. > :44:47.their children surging into new and better grammar schools
:44:48. > :44:50.is a fantasy. What will actually happen,
:44:51. > :44:56.and I really admire and salute this, is that migrant and first-generation
:44:57. > :45:00.kids from Asia - we know already the highest performing children
:45:01. > :45:03.in Britain are Bangladeshi girls - from Asia and Eastern Europe,
:45:04. > :45:08.will sweep into those But the small problem
:45:09. > :45:14.that the disgruntled and now a disconnected white working class
:45:15. > :45:17.who believed they were going to get I can think of no other tinderbox
:45:18. > :45:24.that you could strike on the hard-pressed and already
:45:25. > :45:27.divided communities. Now there is a body of evidence
:45:28. > :45:32.which shows that teaching pupils in mixed ability settings does
:45:33. > :45:35.indeed lift the attainment of those However, the corollary is that those
:45:36. > :45:42.who would have achieved the very The most able are having
:45:43. > :45:50.their wings clipped. The reasons for inequality
:45:51. > :45:52.in selective settings are many - poorer teachers in charge
:45:53. > :45:54.of less able classes, a lack of confidence,
:45:55. > :45:57.sometimes, in less able children, and a lack of positive
:45:58. > :46:02.peer group role models. But rather than throwing the baby
:46:03. > :46:05.out with the bath water and saying that all selection by
:46:06. > :46:07.ability is always bad, perhaps we should mitigate
:46:08. > :46:09.the impact and to look as you said, so that
:46:10. > :46:19.our most able can fly. We're joined now by the Labour
:46:20. > :46:32.peer Michael Cashman, Welcome back to the programme. Are
:46:33. > :46:37.you against any kind of selection by ability or aptitude? Not at all. My
:46:38. > :46:43.biggest problem is that there is an age picked, at the moment it is
:46:44. > :46:49.11-13, and I don't believe everyone develops at the same time and
:46:50. > :46:55.therefore selection at an imposed age actually mitigates against a
:46:56. > :46:59.majority of children and as I said in a debate I want to make sure the
:47:00. > :47:04.educational service serves the needs of every child throughout their
:47:05. > :47:09.learning years and more importantly, especially with my experience beyond
:47:10. > :47:13.your schooling years, recognise that we have unique potentials that can
:47:14. > :47:17.be developed at different times. The old Grammar school system had the 11
:47:18. > :47:23.plus will stop it was a brutal watershed. I know I suffered because
:47:24. > :47:28.of it. You have not suffered too badly, you are in the House of
:47:29. > :47:34.Lords. I did, because it has an incredible impact. You have overcome
:47:35. > :47:44.it. I overcame it because. You have a CBE. You are a famous actor! I was
:47:45. > :47:49.lucky, a drama teacher saw in this rebel at the secondary modern where
:47:50. > :47:53.I did not feel I fitted, or belonged, he spotted something and
:47:54. > :47:57.because my parents got into debt and I hack to work as a child actor, I
:47:58. > :48:03.went to a stage school that developed my talent and it was only
:48:04. > :48:06.when I was 25 when I wanted to do O-levels and A-levels, I thought I
:48:07. > :48:10.could actually do it. I don't want that to happen to another child. You
:48:11. > :48:18.were selected on the basis of ability? On the basis of talent by a
:48:19. > :48:23.talent scout. My point is, we develop at different ages. Which
:48:24. > :48:28.brings me back to the question I was going to ask you. I began by saying
:48:29. > :48:33.the old grammar school secondary modern system had a brutal watershed
:48:34. > :48:37.at 11 and there were sometimes when you could get back in but by and
:48:38. > :48:45.large that was it, it decided your future education. What if there was
:48:46. > :48:51.a more flexible selective system, that there was not an 11 plus, it
:48:52. > :48:56.was later, and there were multiple opportunities and a variety of
:48:57. > :49:00.schools for aptitudes and abilities that took that into account? Of
:49:01. > :49:08.course I would look at that and will commit but I rely on experts. So
:49:09. > :49:13.Michael Walsh, the chief inspector of education, said increasing
:49:14. > :49:18.academic selections would be a profoundly retrograde step. The
:49:19. > :49:22.institute of education, the national association of school and College
:49:23. > :49:28.leaders, when I read the library briefing from the House of Lords, it
:49:29. > :49:32.is clear the consensus is this does not help social mobility and does
:49:33. > :49:37.not improve school performance overall. Iain Martin, you take a big
:49:38. > :49:42.interest in this. I think you are right about the sharp division at 11
:49:43. > :49:45.and the government has got itself into a mess partly because of the
:49:46. > :49:49.way the story leaked. It was supposed to be the big announcement
:49:50. > :49:55.at conference but it leaked and it is presented that they want a return
:49:56. > :50:00.to the 11 plus and the secondary modern system, which was unfair and
:50:01. > :50:04.divisive, but working back, they are trying to get to somewhere
:50:05. > :50:07.interesting which is if you look at university technical colleges that
:50:08. > :50:15.Ken Baker and others have been behind, there are more than 50 now.
:50:16. > :50:24.There are 39 working towards 50. They take kids at 13-14, so the
:50:25. > :50:28.point is the division is not sharp at 11. Out of that it would be
:50:29. > :50:33.interesting to see if the government as well as creating technical
:50:34. > :50:42.schools, could you create liberal arts colleges? Schools in poor areas
:50:43. > :50:46.for very bright kids. There is a performing... I was meaning
:50:47. > :50:52.humanities. How can we ensure in a country in which we have a delete
:50:53. > :50:59.that is so stratified? How can we ensure it? In the debate, who spoke
:51:00. > :51:04.who did not go to a grammar school? Three. How can we ensure bright kids
:51:05. > :51:13.from poor areas get an elite education of the kind many members
:51:14. > :51:19.of the Cabinet had? For me it is simple. Choice. Patrick Cormack used
:51:20. > :51:23.the word choice. Often we get into a stream and let's take me as an
:51:24. > :51:28.example. A young actor I got into the arts and suddenly decided I
:51:29. > :51:32.wanted to study medicine. There was no method by which at the age of
:51:33. > :51:38.205I could get A-levels and A-levels to do that, therefore I want choice
:51:39. > :51:43.either when someone goes to a specialist college. A lifetime
:51:44. > :51:47.choice? They change their mind. One's talent and potential develops
:51:48. > :51:53.according to our experience of the world. If you looked at our school
:51:54. > :52:03.system and you would find many weaknesses, and a huge diversity of
:52:04. > :52:05.performance between various types of school, but if you looked from the
:52:06. > :52:08.outside, rather than saying more grammar schools would be a priority,
:52:09. > :52:13.you may want to say they should be more, but would it be a priority
:52:14. > :52:19.that the glaring thing we lack is a wide range of high-quality
:52:20. > :52:23.technology schools? I think what most parents want is just a really
:52:24. > :52:28.good school that is not worse than the school that someone else is
:52:29. > :52:33.going to. I went to what Alastair Campbell called a bog-standard
:52:34. > :52:37.comprehensive and I did OK. Now I am a parent and always believed in
:52:38. > :52:42.comprehensive education. Now as a parent, you begin to think, I don't
:52:43. > :52:45.know whether I want to send my little treasure to the comprehensive
:52:46. > :52:52.when others are going to the grammar school. I think there needs to be,
:52:53. > :52:57.for a one nation Conservative, Theresa May is introducing a system
:52:58. > :53:00.which is about differences and degradation, and even having the
:53:01. > :53:05.humanities College, technical College, that is fine if you live in
:53:06. > :53:10.a concentrated urban area where you can go to different schools for
:53:11. > :53:15.different aptitudes, but in a rural area, even a suburb, you want the
:53:16. > :53:23.school up the road to be good and cater to all pupils. The logic of
:53:24. > :53:27.the Tony Blair, Lord Adonis, Michael Gove reforms needs to be followed
:53:28. > :53:32.through and unwonted selection although I think everyone involved
:53:33. > :53:38.went to selective schools. The key is variety. The too long we have had
:53:39. > :53:43.a top-down national model. Let 1000 flowers bloom, try different
:53:44. > :53:46.schools, introduce some selection. There will be some new full-scale
:53:47. > :53:51.grammar schools where people want it but we have to get away from the
:53:52. > :53:57.idea of enforcing one rigid national model. Michael, the final word. This
:53:58. > :54:01.is hopefully what the House of Lords will ask the government to do dash
:54:02. > :54:07.to think again and think of any proposals. There isn't a manifesto
:54:08. > :54:11.commitment. There is not even widespread support on the government
:54:12. > :54:15.benches but hopefully the debate yesterday which Baroness Andrews
:54:16. > :54:21.managed to get will say to the government, if you proceed down this
:54:22. > :54:25.route, it will be very difficult. Think differently, think more
:54:26. > :54:29.widely, think imaginatively. And then there might be a proposal that
:54:30. > :54:33.would emerge that would have the support of the Lord's? I hope so
:54:34. > :54:38.because the Lord's works on the basis of achieving compromise from
:54:39. > :54:42.all parties. It is like my experience of the 15 years in the
:54:43. > :54:47.European Parliament. You have to work with others to achieve the best
:54:48. > :54:48.and that is what I hoped for. Michael Cashman, good to see you
:54:49. > :54:49.again. Time now to see what else has been
:54:50. > :54:52.happening in the world of politics Here's Ellie with the
:54:53. > :54:56.week in 60 seconds. With early voting already underway
:54:57. > :54:58.in the US, Donald Trump's presidential campaign faltered
:54:59. > :55:01.after numerous allegations about his inappropriate
:55:02. > :55:06.behaviour towards women. One suggesting he was
:55:07. > :55:09.like "an octopus." Debating the war in Syria,
:55:10. > :55:11.Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson made this rather
:55:12. > :55:12.undiplomatic suggestion... I'd certainly like to see
:55:13. > :55:14.demonstrations outside But not wanting to be outdone,
:55:15. > :55:21.Jeremy Corbyn's top aide Seumas Milne later suggested that
:55:22. > :55:24.people should protest outside the American Embassy
:55:25. > :55:27.in London instead. Iain Duncan Smith apologised
:55:28. > :55:31.to Labour's shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer,
:55:32. > :55:33.a QC no less, after calling him It was clumsy, it was not meant
:55:34. > :55:37.about him, it was And I don't doubt for one
:55:38. > :55:41.moment his capabilities as a lawyer. Boris Johnson, yes him again,
:55:42. > :55:44.told the Foreign Affairs Select You seem to think the single
:55:45. > :55:48.market is sort of like To paraphrase, it was Groucho
:55:49. > :55:56.himself who once said he'd never be a member of any club would have him
:55:57. > :56:10.as a member, whatever that means. month to go until the US election,
:56:11. > :56:18.November the 8th. Results will be live on BBC One. And BBC World and
:56:19. > :56:22.BBC News. It looks like the past ten days have been a watershed in a
:56:23. > :56:27.campaign. It was pretty nip and tuck but Mrs Clinton seems to be pulling
:56:28. > :56:31.away but not dramatically. Many are surprised she has not pulled away by
:56:32. > :56:36.morbid it is clearly hers to lose? I spend a lot of time in the States
:56:37. > :56:41.and Hillary Clinton is surprisingly unpopular. I do not think people
:56:42. > :56:44.here quite realise. Some try to make an equivalence between her and
:56:45. > :56:51.Donald Trump and her challenge will be to get people to turn out.
:56:52. > :56:54.Probably Donald Trump has been so unappealing people will do that, but
:56:55. > :56:58.it is not a done deal. She needs young people to come out and a
:56:59. > :57:04.massive mobilisation of the black and Hispanic vote. The Republican
:57:05. > :57:08.leadership, which a lot of it has disowned Mr Trump. Their worry is
:57:09. > :57:12.they have written off the White House in their minds, they are
:57:13. > :57:20.trying to hold onto the Senate. This is such a crazy scramble. I spent a
:57:21. > :57:22.lot of time in the US in the past year and the Republican
:57:23. > :57:26.establishment, the part of the establishment that did not do enough
:57:27. > :57:33.to stop him, is now pretty much getting what it deserves. You are
:57:34. > :57:37.right, the polls might be wrong, but the Clinton campaign have played the
:57:38. > :57:42.last few weeks absolutely brilliantly. He walked into it. They
:57:43. > :57:48.suckered him in that first debate and he was ranting and being rude to
:57:49. > :57:55.women, dropped the famous tape, force him to deny that he had ever
:57:56. > :58:03.done this and them produce via the media... It had been a stuttering
:58:04. > :58:07.campaign until then. We will see if you can get his campaign together
:58:08. > :58:09.now. There is all to play for. Before we go, the answer to our
:58:10. > :58:10.quiz. Who is going to be the new women's
:58:11. > :58:24.champion for the UN? I do not know. I will guess wonder
:58:25. > :58:31.woman. Wonder woman. You are both right. She does not even exist!
:58:32. > :58:34.Really? Apparently it is a studio tie-up that makes it, anyway. There
:58:35. > :58:34.you go. The one o'clock news is starting
:58:35. > :58:39.over on BBC One now. I'll be back on Sunday
:58:40. > :58:51.with the Sunday Politics, We will look at airport expansion
:58:52. > :58:53.and inevitably the latest on Brexit. Join me at 11am, BBC One, Sunday
:58:54. > :59:11.morning. ..and builds worlds,
:59:12. > :59:15.not just characters.