:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:43.With the Calais Jungle camp due to be shut down within days,
:00:44. > :00:45.more unaccompanied child migrants arrive in Britain,
:00:46. > :00:50.but are we taking too long and taking in too few children?
:00:51. > :00:53.They're said to be overwhelmingly in favour of Remain
:00:54. > :00:56.but how far will the unelected Lords dare to go
:00:57. > :00:59.in being seen to frustrate the progress of Brexit?
:01:00. > :01:05.We'll ask the new man in charge of the Upper House.
:01:06. > :01:06.Has the feminist movement empowered women
:01:07. > :01:19.And can a good logo get you elected, or help you lose?
:01:20. > :01:23.And with us for the whole of the programme today
:01:24. > :01:27.is former Labour Leadership contender Angela Eagle
:01:28. > :01:29.and the former Culture Secretary Maria Miller,
:01:30. > :01:36.who now chairs the Commons' Women and Equalities Committee.
:01:37. > :01:37.First this morning, the Independent Inquiry
:01:38. > :01:40.into Child Sexual Abuse is now on its fourth inquiry chair,
:01:41. > :01:44.as well as suffering several resignations from its legal team.
:01:45. > :01:47.But it is the inquiry's third chair, Dame Lowell Goddard,
:01:48. > :01:50.that's attracting most interest at the moment
:01:51. > :01:52.with the Home Affairs Select Committee
:01:53. > :01:53.about to hold a hearing on the circumstances
:01:54. > :01:57.surrounding her appointment and dismissal.
:01:58. > :02:07.But are they poised to call Theresa May,
:02:08. > :02:10.who was Home Secretary at the time, to give evidence?
:02:11. > :02:15.Let's talk to our assistant political editor, Norman Smith.
:02:16. > :02:24.Can you just remind us about the circumstances of her departure? She
:02:25. > :02:28.left early August, the Home Secretary Amber red saying she left
:02:29. > :02:33.because of the distant she had to travel back to New Zealand. She was
:02:34. > :02:37.feeling lonely. Suggesting a personal reasons that led to her
:02:38. > :02:40.resignation. We now know very serious allegations have been made
:02:41. > :02:44.about the way she managed the inquiry and whether she lost the
:02:45. > :02:50.confidence of leading members of the inquiry team and also allegations
:02:51. > :02:55.about her attitude, particularly claims she had made racist remarks.
:02:56. > :02:59.What the MPs want to try to understand is, if those kind of
:03:00. > :03:04.allegations were being made, where any of them relayed to ministers and
:03:05. > :03:09.in particular to the Home Secretary at the time, Theresa May? Speaking
:03:10. > :03:12.to MPs on the committee, they take a view it is inconceivable that the
:03:13. > :03:16.Home Office at least was not aware of the deep concerns within the
:03:17. > :03:21.inquiry because members of the Home Office had been succumbed to the
:03:22. > :03:24.inquiry and they say it is not credible that sort of information
:03:25. > :03:28.would not have been known about. When you talk to Downing Street this
:03:29. > :03:34.morning, they said the first alarm bells were not sounded until 29th of
:03:35. > :03:38.July. That was a week or so before Justice Gothard resigned. In other
:03:39. > :03:43.words, Theresa May was not alerted. That is not the only aspect of this
:03:44. > :03:47.which concerns MPs regarding the Prime Minister. There is also an
:03:48. > :03:51.appetite to understand why the inquiry was set up as it was with
:03:52. > :03:58.this huge remix to investigate pretty much the world and his wife,
:03:59. > :04:03.allegations of abuse at Westminster, local government, the military, the
:04:04. > :04:08.police, it you name it. A lot roads come back to Theresa May. Is there
:04:09. > :04:13.now a suggestion that it will be scaled back, the scope of this
:04:14. > :04:18.enquiry? That is highly likely. There is a view it is out of control
:04:19. > :04:24.in terms of the extent of lines of enquiry it now has two pursue. There
:04:25. > :04:28.are? About how you pull all of that together in a reasonable time frame.
:04:29. > :04:33.I suspect you will hear from Alexis Jay later saying she is going to
:04:34. > :04:38.pair the inquiry back. It does raise questions about why it was setup in
:04:39. > :04:42.this way in the first place and in the hall management of this enquiry.
:04:43. > :04:47.It was originally set up by Theresa May as a panel. It had its remit
:04:48. > :04:52.extended to become a full-blown enquiry. There are fundamental
:04:53. > :04:57.questions about the Prime Minister's handling this enquiry. She is likely
:04:58. > :05:05.to be called, is she? Or will she accept? I would say it is doubtful
:05:06. > :05:09.she will accept that Amber Rudd has responsibility for the department. I
:05:10. > :05:13.am struggling but I cannot remember a Prime Minister coming before the
:05:14. > :05:17.departmental select committee. They appear before the Liaison Committee
:05:18. > :05:20.bike cannot remember one appearing before a departmental committee and
:05:21. > :05:24.I imagine they would not want to go down that road. Presumably that
:05:25. > :05:27.might be the time they can compose some of these questions.
:05:28. > :05:33.Should she appeared before the committee bearing in mind she was
:05:34. > :05:37.Home Secretary when these serious questions and allegations began to
:05:38. > :05:40.surface? It is right that the select committee should do its job and
:05:41. > :05:46.scrutinise civil servants and ministers. It is Amber Rudd who is
:05:47. > :05:49.in position now and the Liaison Committee has ample opportunity to
:05:50. > :05:54.press the Prime Minister on this if we choose to so do at a later date.
:05:55. > :05:59.I think they should not let this overshadow the important work the
:06:00. > :06:03.inquiry is doing for victims and my worry is this is somewhat
:06:04. > :06:05.sidetracking people from that important work and the work of
:06:06. > :06:10.Alexis Jay. I'm glad she will be talking later to get the focus of
:06:11. > :06:15.people back on that. You say you are worried about it sidetracking what
:06:16. > :06:20.has already been a difficult enquiry to get going due to resignations. We
:06:21. > :06:24.have heard, or it has been reported, the permanent Secretary to the Home
:06:25. > :06:33.Office implied they already knew about allegations about her conduct
:06:34. > :06:38.went to reason may was Home Secretary. Surely the onus is on her
:06:39. > :06:41.to respond. It was an Independent enquiry. There were civil servants
:06:42. > :06:45.from the Home Office are conjured there and there was a close link. I
:06:46. > :06:49.think I will be listening very closely to what the civil servants
:06:50. > :06:55.have to say, when they knew it will stop it is important not to lose
:06:56. > :07:04.sight of the inquiry. Should it be scaled back? It is clearly in
:07:05. > :07:08.trouble, onto its fourth head. The trouble is about the judge from New
:07:09. > :07:12.Zealand and I hope she agrees to give evidence about what actually
:07:13. > :07:18.happened. I think we are in danger of losing the point of setting it up
:07:19. > :07:23.in the first place, which was to try to deal with some of the cover-ups
:07:24. > :07:28.that have been going on about child sexual abuse and many lives being
:07:29. > :07:32.ruined. It has clearly got completely out of control. It is too
:07:33. > :07:39.wide-ranging in its rebate for any person to be able to do it. It goes
:07:40. > :07:43.back 40-50 years. It is a difficult ask for anyone. The Chan in the
:07:44. > :07:49.inquiry of chairs has demonstrated that. You do think it should be more
:07:50. > :07:54.targeted? They need to see how they can begin to attack the remade. They
:07:55. > :07:58.are making no progress and time is going on. No one is satisfied. All
:07:59. > :08:03.good reasons, Theresa May wanted to have something done about this. I
:08:04. > :08:07.think it has spiralled out of all control and is not fit for purpose.
:08:08. > :08:12.They need to take another look at it but they must also look at the
:08:13. > :08:19.expenditure of public money. The judge had half ?1 million in
:08:20. > :08:22.recompense. They will look at that in the select committee, when pay?
:08:23. > :08:26.Do you think it has been well handled? It has not made the
:08:27. > :08:31.progress we would have hoped. Whose fault is that? Whether it is to do
:08:32. > :08:33.with the terms of the inquiry or the people, ultimately victims will be
:08:34. > :08:40.saying it has not made the progress it should have had. I hope Alexis
:08:41. > :08:45.Jay will say it has made a clear way forward. It is not right to say it
:08:46. > :08:49.has made no progress. Darting to identify the sorts of inquiries and
:08:50. > :08:52.13 inquiries that should be undertaken. The scale of what is
:08:53. > :08:58.being done is very ambitious. I have been listening carefully to what
:08:59. > :09:04.Alexis Jay has to say. If it will be restricted in some way, in what way
:09:05. > :09:09.would you like to see it more limited? I would like to see victims
:09:10. > :09:12.having clear answers about how these sorts of abuse allegations were
:09:13. > :09:17.dealt with in the past. Whether the inquiry needs to have the breadth of
:09:18. > :09:22.scope across the public and private sector. I will be listening
:09:23. > :09:26.carefully to that later on today if Alexis Jay makes a statement. By
:09:27. > :09:30.focusing the inquiry in a less ambitious way across all of those
:09:31. > :09:39.sectors, we might be able to get results sooner. Are you confident
:09:40. > :09:41.Alexis Jay can do the job any better than her predecessors? I hope so. We
:09:42. > :09:46.can but hope. Otherwise we will get into a round of ongoing problems. A
:09:47. > :09:50.lot of the victims would say that what they want is to create a
:09:51. > :09:53.circumstance where people cannot be subjected to the kind of horrors
:09:54. > :09:57.they were subjected to in the past again in the future. It is also
:09:58. > :10:02.importantly tried to learn lessons about how child abuse is dealt with,
:10:03. > :10:08.how the authorities deal with it, and how we can best protect victims.
:10:09. > :10:12.That is the key point for everyone concerned. Do you think learning the
:10:13. > :10:17.lessons, the historical lessons, because there is a history of being
:10:18. > :10:21.examined about child abuse, the thing that can still help today?
:10:22. > :10:25.Absolutely. We will be letting victims stand we did not make sure
:10:26. > :10:29.recommendations coming out of the inquiry do absolutely get embedded
:10:30. > :10:32.in all of that. Let's leave it there.
:10:33. > :10:34.Now, the Calais Jungle, the make-shift migrant camp
:10:35. > :10:38.is due to be cleared in the next week or so.
:10:39. > :10:40.Amongst the estimated 10,000 people in the camps
:10:41. > :10:43.are thought to be between 600 and 900 unaccompanied refugees.
:10:44. > :10:46.The British Government has agreed to take some of those
:10:47. > :10:52.but are they acting too slowly and taking too few children?
:10:53. > :10:57.are due to arrive in the UK today from Calais.
:10:58. > :11:00.They include Afghans, Syrians and stateless Bidun children
:11:01. > :11:06.They are the first group of minors to be brought over
:11:07. > :11:10.by the Home Office under a fast-track registration scheme.
:11:11. > :11:13.The Dublin Regulation allows children to seek UK asylum
:11:14. > :11:17.because they have close relatives living here.
:11:18. > :11:19.The UK has also made a wider commitment to taking
:11:20. > :11:27.in unaccompanied children caught up in the migrant crisis.
:11:28. > :11:29.The Lord Dubs Amendment to the Immigration Act which passed
:11:30. > :11:40.requires the Government to "arrange transport and support"
:11:41. > :11:48.for unaccompanied refugee children - whether family in UK or not -
:11:49. > :11:50.requires the Government to arrange transport and support
:11:51. > :11:52.for unaccompanied refugee children from Europe,
:11:53. > :11:53.regardless of whether they have family here.
:11:54. > :11:56.And Home Secretary Amber Rudd said last week that it would be
:11:57. > :11:59."a good result" if the UK ended up taking 300 unaccompanied
:12:00. > :12:02.But the Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has
:12:03. > :12:04.warned of "foot dragging" over accepting children from the Calais
:12:05. > :12:08.Mr Williams said "the clock is ticking" because the camp
:12:09. > :12:11.is expected to be demolished next week and the UK had a "moral
:12:12. > :12:19.Maria Miller, why is it taking so long to get unaccompanied child
:12:20. > :12:24.refugees with relatives in this country to come to the UK? It has
:12:25. > :12:33.been a bureaucratic system and been very problematic in getting speedy
:12:34. > :12:37.resolutions. More than 5000 Syrian refugees have come to this country
:12:38. > :12:42.since 2012. The systems are in place. Again I do not think we
:12:43. > :12:47.should forget the Government policy of supporting refugees on the Syrian
:12:48. > :12:53.border is on the campus is something which we have done and proudly done.
:12:54. > :12:58.That is, as you say, a two pronged attack. Let's focus on the
:12:59. > :13:07.unaccompanied children and the commitments that have been made.
:13:08. > :13:12.Have there been tracking of feet? -- has there been? The numbers have
:13:13. > :13:17.been so huge that invariably the bureaucratic system has got in the
:13:18. > :13:21.way. More than 100 children have already come over. The Home
:13:22. > :13:25.Secretary has said she wants to see many more come over. Local
:13:26. > :13:30.authorities are there, willing and ready to help these children, many
:13:31. > :13:36.of whom have significant needs. What numbers are you talking about? The
:13:37. > :13:40.Home Secretary has talked about 300 children coming over. I think that
:13:41. > :13:45.is Britain playing its part, which is what we want to do, without
:13:46. > :13:50.acting as a magnet for people traffickers who have used and abused
:13:51. > :13:54.young people, dragging them to Calais. We can see some of the
:13:55. > :13:59.pictures of children. There have been reports suggesting that not all
:14:00. > :14:02.of the people who say they are children actually are and they are
:14:03. > :14:07.trying to get some sort of refuge here. The Government has said, and
:14:08. > :14:12.Amber Rudd has said it will be a good result if the UK manages to
:14:13. > :14:15.take 300. Local councils had to deal with child refugees when they come
:14:16. > :14:22.over here and not all of them said they can afford it. By definition,
:14:23. > :14:26.the Government has agreed the dubs amendment. You want to ensure that
:14:27. > :14:30.children who have gone through a very traumatic time when they are
:14:31. > :14:33.reunited with relatives are properly looked after. I think it is for the
:14:34. > :14:39.Government to ensure there is adequate resources available for
:14:40. > :14:44.local authorities, many of whom have had huge cuts in their budgets, to
:14:45. > :14:48.be able to ensure those children are properly integrated. Of course, the
:14:49. > :14:52.longer they have been in those terrible conditions, the more needy
:14:53. > :14:59.they are likely to be when they come over here. If the Government
:15:00. > :15:04.accepted the Dubs Amendment, I think it should have been faster and more
:15:05. > :15:09.effective in taking those children. If the Calais camp closes within a
:15:10. > :15:12.week, we have had months and months since this amendment has passed and
:15:13. > :15:19.hundreds of children have come over. Even on the figure of 300, less than
:15:20. > :15:23.a week to integrate and find the other 200. There have to be a lot
:15:24. > :15:27.more work done and more quickly to get these children over safely. I
:15:28. > :15:30.agree you voted against the original amendment stating the UK should take
:15:31. > :15:37.in 3000 unaccompanied child refugees.
:15:38. > :15:41.My position right from the start has been that we should be supporting
:15:42. > :15:47.people in the camps nearer to Syria, any countries are not doing that.
:15:48. > :15:48.Britain is, we have stepped up to our obligations. Individuals,
:15:49. > :15:52.particularly young people in the camps near Syria are often the most
:15:53. > :15:55.disabled, the most challenged, they cannot pay people traffickers to
:15:56. > :16:00.take them on board. Britain has the right strategy in that respect. We
:16:01. > :16:06.remember where the amendment came from, it was because it was on the
:16:07. > :16:12.Kindertransport, during the period of the Nazis, when ordinary
:16:13. > :16:22.community groups, not the government, brought Jordan over. And
:16:23. > :16:24.we know from that period that many of the children who came over have
:16:25. > :16:29.made an enormous contribution to British life afterwards, so I think
:16:30. > :16:34.that we should get on and get this sorted and not leave those children
:16:35. > :16:36.in the danger they are in now. Do you think there is a moral
:16:37. > :16:40.obligation, as Ryan Williams has said, to take the children, I take
:16:41. > :16:50.your point, it should be in the camps, the focus, but the Dubs
:16:51. > :16:54.Amendment was eventually passed. -- Rowan Williams. Absolutely there is
:16:55. > :16:58.a moral obligation, that is what Parliament has acted in this way,
:16:59. > :17:02.with a very specific objective in our sights. You didn't want to take
:17:03. > :17:05.all of them. It comes down to the fact that we need to be so careful
:17:06. > :17:10.that the policies we took in place do not encourage people trafficking
:17:11. > :17:14.in the ways... People trafficking is going on now, large numbers of
:17:15. > :17:18.people are paying huge amounts of money to cross the Mediterranean in
:17:19. > :17:21.boat, many people are being exploited, we need to use the forces
:17:22. > :17:25.of law and order to help to deal with some of those trafficking
:17:26. > :17:29.routes. It is not a reason not to help people who are in dire need.
:17:30. > :17:32.You admit that there is a bureaucratic process to go through,
:17:33. > :17:39.claims of having relatives in this country have got to be investigated
:17:40. > :17:42.otherwise everyone would say, no matter their tragic circumstances.
:17:43. > :17:47.Of course but it could have been done faster. Has Jeremy Corbyn
:17:48. > :17:52.offered strong enough position on the refugees, should he have been
:17:53. > :17:55.pushing harder? It has pushed pretty hard, he has made it clear that we
:17:56. > :18:00.should be doing more, and the opposition have voted to support the
:18:01. > :18:04.Dubs Amendment, I think it is clear that there is a humanist airing
:18:05. > :18:07.crisis going on across Europe and we must play our part, as one of the
:18:08. > :18:13.European nations and one of the leading nations in the United
:18:14. > :18:17.Nations, to do the right thing. I have to say, I think Maria Miller is
:18:18. > :18:22.right, about the fantastic support that this government has been giving
:18:23. > :18:27.on the borders, of Syria, but that does not mean that we cannot do
:18:28. > :18:34.something to help people in dire need in Europe now, and we should be
:18:35. > :18:37.playing our part. We are playing our part. We make sure those children
:18:38. > :18:39.come to the UK. As well as the bureaucracy, Winnie to make sure
:18:40. > :18:44.those children, when they arrive, have this right support in place,
:18:45. > :18:47.many have significant needs. -- we need to make sure. Dozens of
:18:48. > :18:50.children have gone missing while waiting for their claims to be
:18:51. > :18:54.processed, according to aid agencies, what do you say to that?
:18:55. > :18:59.That is an appalling situation for us to be facing. Whether that is the
:19:00. > :19:02.French government or the British government or indeed the whole of
:19:03. > :19:08.the new, it needs to be looked into very carefully. Finally, Francois
:19:09. > :19:10.Hollande has promised to set up reception and orientation centres,
:19:11. > :19:15.the camps will be cleared, and that will deal with and process asylum
:19:16. > :19:18.seekers, do you really think that is going to be the end of watching
:19:19. > :19:22.hordes of migrants and refugees trying to get onto lorries to come
:19:23. > :19:32.to Britain? The whole of Europe has to deal with the dispersal of those
:19:33. > :19:35.refugees arriving in great numbers. How should it be done? It should be
:19:36. > :19:38.done with co-operation with some of the international agreement that are
:19:39. > :19:39.being made, and it should be done more effectively. But we know that
:19:40. > :19:42.this is controversial within countries, as we see from the rise
:19:43. > :19:44.of the populace. Are you optimistic that the plan of Francois Hollande
:19:45. > :19:49.for the new reception centres is going to work? We have got to wish
:19:50. > :19:55.it the best and we have got to hope it works because the alternative is
:19:56. > :19:58.people really living in fields, like they are at the moment, in Calais,
:19:59. > :20:00.risking their lives to get on lorries. That is not what we want to
:20:01. > :20:05.see in the centre of Europe. Now, remember it wasn't
:20:06. > :20:06.about his leadership and he wouldn't resign if he lost,
:20:07. > :20:10.but in the end David Cameron resigned as Prime Minister and then
:20:11. > :20:13.as an MP in the wake The by-election prompted
:20:14. > :20:16.by his departure is on Thursday and our Ellie's been to his former
:20:17. > :20:18.constituency of Witney to test The Oxfordshire
:20:19. > :20:21.constituency of Witney. A place known for
:20:22. > :20:23.blankets, airbases, and, until recently,
:20:24. > :20:29.the Prime Minister. because he didn't want to be
:20:30. > :20:41.a distraction to Theresa May. Some of his former constituents
:20:42. > :20:43.are slightly annoyed by the distraction
:20:44. > :20:45.of a by-election. What were your thoughts
:20:46. > :20:47.on David Cameron standing down? I thought he had said several times
:20:48. > :20:50.he wouldn't do that. I did understand the reason
:20:51. > :20:53.he did stand down. I don't think he had
:20:54. > :20:56.the choice, to be honest. It's a shame because he's
:20:57. > :20:59.been doing a good job. What are your thoughts
:21:00. > :21:01.on David Cameron standing down? Don't get me on that
:21:02. > :21:03.subject, David Cameron. When David Cameron was re-elected
:21:04. > :21:05.here in the general election last year,
:21:06. > :21:07.he increased his majority There is no doubt it
:21:08. > :21:10.will be an uphill struggle for the other parties
:21:11. > :21:12.hoping to overcome that. There are 14 candidates
:21:13. > :21:14.in total hoping to they're in a similar
:21:15. > :21:22.position, or worse? Councillor Duncan Enright is the
:21:23. > :21:25.Labour candidate. He stood against David Cameron
:21:26. > :21:28.in the general election. With David Cameron's personal
:21:29. > :21:30.vote out of the way, I think there's a real chance
:21:31. > :21:32.for something to happen here. I'm the most famous candidate
:21:33. > :21:36.on the ballot paper in Witney. I may not be famous
:21:37. > :21:40.across the country How are the Liberal Democrats doing
:21:41. > :21:48.at the moment? Liz Leffman, is standing
:21:49. > :21:51.for the Lib Dems. Quite a number of people in this
:21:52. > :21:53.constituency, 57%, particularly people who
:21:54. > :21:59.voted Conservative in the past, are really upset that they've got
:22:00. > :22:02.somebody, the Conservative candidate,
:22:03. > :22:04.who voted to leave. Always nice to have a professional
:22:05. > :22:06.wardrobe dresser. Dickie Bird, who served
:22:07. > :22:09.in the British Army for 20 With possibly a cooling down
:22:10. > :22:13.on Brexit from the Government, there's a possibility of 30,000
:22:14. > :22:18.votes there that can reinforce and keep the Prime Minister's toes
:22:19. > :22:24.to the fire to make sure that Brexit is Brexit
:22:25. > :22:27.and we do actually leave the EU. You know my name?
:22:28. > :22:28.Great. His name is Larry Sanders,
:22:29. > :22:31.the Green candidate. If he seems a bit familiar,
:22:32. > :22:34.it's because his brother was the US presidential
:22:35. > :22:38.hopeful, Bernie Sanders. I'm part of a world movement
:22:39. > :22:41.that we can get past the last 30 years of perhaps shifting
:22:42. > :22:44.money from the rich from My brother Bernie started it
:22:45. > :22:48.and I want to finish it. It's a real pleasure
:22:49. > :22:50.to meet you both. Barrister Robert Courts is
:22:51. > :22:55.hoping to follow in David Cameron's
:22:56. > :22:57.Conservative footsteps. There's no such thing
:22:58. > :22:59.as a safe seat. I'll be getting out and meeting
:23:00. > :23:02.as many people as I possibly can in every town and listening
:23:03. > :23:05.to their concerns, and explaining why I think I'd be the best
:23:06. > :23:08.person to represent them. This will be Theresa May's first
:23:09. > :23:10.electoral test as Prime Minister, which is why she's not
:23:11. > :23:16.taking any chances and was out with one
:23:17. > :23:19.of her old friends this weekend, By-elections in safe seats sometimes
:23:20. > :23:24.have a knack of throwing Witney goes to the
:23:25. > :23:28.polls on Thursday. Ellie Price there,
:23:29. > :23:38.and a full list of candidates standing in Thursday's
:23:39. > :23:41.by-election is on the website. Now, he's got the most
:23:42. > :23:43.comfortable seat in parliament, he's a Lord but had to be elected
:23:44. > :23:46.to his position. Former Conservative Cabinet
:23:47. > :23:50.Minister Lord Fowler took up his position last week
:23:51. > :23:52.after winning a vote amongst fellow peers,
:23:53. > :24:05.and joins us in the studio. Congratulations again, although I
:24:06. > :24:08.think we spoke at the time, what is the role of the Lord's post EU
:24:09. > :24:12.referendum? The role of the Lord's post-referendum is exact to what it
:24:13. > :24:16.has been before, what we are about is scrutinising every piece of
:24:17. > :24:21.legislation that comes through, we do not have a guillotine process in
:24:22. > :24:26.the Lords, which, in the Commons, I was in the Commons 31 years, often
:24:27. > :24:30.means that really quite important issues are not given the attention
:24:31. > :24:35.that they might be. And so we go through every piece of legislation,
:24:36. > :24:40.and try to make constructive changes, if changes are needed to
:24:41. > :24:50.it. How will that work when it comes to legislation regarding Brexit, the
:24:51. > :24:52.laws, as you say, are not meant to frustrate the will of the Commons,
:24:53. > :24:54.they will vote against manifesto commitments by the government. --
:24:55. > :24:57.the Lords. The EU referendum result is different. We recognise, first
:24:58. > :25:02.thing, we recognise the primacy of the House of Commons. We don't wish
:25:03. > :25:07.to challenge that. But what it sometimes means is that there are
:25:08. > :25:12.disagreements between the two houses, or fiercely. We have an
:25:13. > :25:19.example of that last week, when, I think, the government lost about six
:25:20. > :25:25.divisions. That does not mean to say that those losses were actually
:25:26. > :25:29.going to legislation, because there will be compromises in between. You
:25:30. > :25:33.previously said that the Prime Minister the Commons should not
:25:34. > :25:40.leave the unchallenged so should they be able to block Brexit
:25:41. > :25:46.negotiation? As a general principle, certainly, I think that the Lords,
:25:47. > :25:50.at times, can vote down something that has come from the Commons, you
:25:51. > :25:53.have just been spending a lot of time, quite rightly, on health Dubs
:25:54. > :26:00.Amendment, well, if it had not been for the Lords, we would not have had
:26:01. > :26:06.alt Dubs Amendment, it did not get through the Commons. -- on Alf Dubs
:26:07. > :26:13.Amendment. Should the Lords be able to block through the terms of Brexit
:26:14. > :26:18.negotiation. I am going to give you the same reply, I am the House of
:26:19. > :26:25.Lords, I am neutral, I am not... I'm asking for your view, in terms of
:26:26. > :26:32.advising peers what to do, how did you vote on the EU referendum?
:26:33. > :26:35.McGrath I voted to remain. When it comes to decisions for example on
:26:36. > :26:39.the approval of triggering Article 50, the great repeal Bill. The
:26:40. > :26:44.Conservative peer, Baroness Patience Wheatcroft said that approval could
:26:45. > :26:49.be withheld and the Lords might actually delay things, is she right?
:26:50. > :26:53.I don't know, and I think that the position is at the moment with
:26:54. > :27:00.Article 50 there is a legal case, as you well know, on that. On the great
:27:01. > :27:03.repeal Bill, I'm not sure if that is going to be the title, but on the
:27:04. > :27:08.great repeal Bill, it will be like any other piece of legislation, we
:27:09. > :27:12.will go through it and there will be proposals and the government and the
:27:13. > :27:16.Lords and the Commons can go through it and make amendments. If
:27:17. > :27:22.amendments are necessary. I'm sure there going to be debates... Where
:27:23. > :27:25.we end up is anyone's guess. It is about the role, the great repeal
:27:26. > :27:30.Bill was not a manifesto commitment, it couldn't be, so in that case,
:27:31. > :27:32.could, as Patience Wheatcroft said, could the Lords frustrate the
:27:33. > :27:40.government on that issue? Frustrate is putting it in a rather emotive
:27:41. > :27:49.way. De Laet yet? Stop it? I think that the Lords could make amendments
:27:50. > :27:52.to the bill. -- delay it. They can make amendments to the bill in the
:27:53. > :27:58.same way that they make amendments to any other Bill, whether that is
:27:59. > :28:02.the end of the matter is quite another decision. The Commons can
:28:03. > :28:06.look at it, they can say whether they degree all they want some
:28:07. > :28:10.compromise or they reject. Let's say that one of the amendments of the
:28:11. > :28:14.great repeal Bill, we have been told by government ministers that is a
:28:15. > :28:21.chance for both elected members -- elected members and the house of
:28:22. > :28:24.lords to discuss this, what if one of the amendments was to discuss
:28:25. > :28:26.that there should not be a stance on the government of coming out of the
:28:27. > :28:29.single market, would that be in your view within the role of the House of
:28:30. > :28:33.Lords? I don't know, that would have to be something for the clerk of the
:28:34. > :28:39.parliaments to decide. As I say, you are putting me into a position that
:28:40. > :28:44.I don't actually occupy. I cannot be an advocate on this, I am meant to
:28:45. > :28:54.hold the balance, hold the consensus. It is rather new for me!
:28:55. > :28:58.Broadly speaking, would that be within the remit that you would find
:28:59. > :29:09.expendable -- acceptable. If it is in order, any thing that comes in
:29:10. > :29:12.order. Do you see a situation whereby the House of Lords could
:29:13. > :29:15.change of frustrate the democratic will of the people? On the great
:29:16. > :29:19.repeal Bill, that comes at the end of the process, what we are talking
:29:20. > :29:23.about is whether Parliament should be allowed to scrutinise, both
:29:24. > :29:27.houses, should be allowed to scrutinise the way that the
:29:28. > :29:33.government intends to interpret the instruction from the British people
:29:34. > :29:38.in the EU referendum to leave. What I said in the debate we had on this,
:29:39. > :29:42.in the Commons last Wednesday, was that there has clearly been a vote
:29:43. > :29:45.to leave the European Union expressed in a referendum but that
:29:46. > :29:51.does not mean that we should leave it in the most damaging way. I think
:29:52. > :29:56.that... You mean by leaving the single market? By having a very hard
:29:57. > :30:00.Brexiteer with no access... Relying upon... -- very hard Brexit. There
:30:01. > :30:07.has not been any vocation of not having access, a tariff... They are
:30:08. > :30:11.not sharing with us any of their thoughts on how they are trying to
:30:12. > :30:15.do it at the moment and I think that it is important for Parliament to
:30:16. > :30:19.have a say and be able to scrutinise the government in how they are going
:30:20. > :30:24.about the process. Do you believe there should be a vote ahead of
:30:25. > :30:28.Article 50, for the Commons, ahead of next March, for the terms of the
:30:29. > :30:31.negotiation? I think it is really important that the government sets
:30:32. > :30:37.out in a White Paper what they are thinking about in terms of the
:30:38. > :30:43.future. If there was a vote and they voted against the negotiating stance
:30:44. > :30:45.or coming out of the single market, surely that would be frustrating
:30:46. > :30:48.what people said in the EU referendum. This is done normally,
:30:49. > :30:52.this used to be done any time any minister... And I have represented
:30:53. > :30:56.the Council of ministers for the UK, whenever you would go to talk about
:30:57. > :30:59.a directive, you would have scrutiny from Parliament saying that you
:31:00. > :31:05.could operate within certain contexts. Nothing new about this.
:31:06. > :31:12.Would you like to see a vote before Article 50 is triggered?
:31:13. > :31:19.Should there be a vote? We should let the Government continue with the
:31:20. > :31:27.negotiation and I do not think there should be a vote before the
:31:28. > :31:34.triggering of article 16. Mike Watson has said grammar schools are
:31:35. > :31:39.dead. -- Article 50. The house of Lords would be within their right to
:31:40. > :31:44.oppose that policy. You say oppose it. Remember, we never defeat
:31:45. > :31:49.anything on second reading. What one is looking at is the bill. It had
:31:50. > :31:53.not come to us from the House of Commons. I don't know what happens
:31:54. > :31:58.in the hands of Commons, let alone in the House of Lords. We will
:31:59. > :32:04.obviously does that will be scrutinised. -- the House of
:32:05. > :32:08.Commons. You have to sit in the chair for about five minutes only to
:32:09. > :32:13.know there is a lot of feeling on grammar schools. We do take these
:32:14. > :32:18.decisions. On tax credits, we took the decision. We were much
:32:19. > :32:23.criticised, the House of Lords, for taking that. When it went actively
:32:24. > :32:28.House of Commons, and we basically said, look at this, think again,
:32:29. > :32:32.they thought again and nothing else was heard about the tax credits
:32:33. > :32:38.proposal. It is a process in action. I do know if that will be what
:32:39. > :32:43.happens with grammar schools. What I do know is with the educationalists
:32:44. > :32:46.and the others, grammar school people like myself, there will be
:32:47. > :32:53.quite a lot of feeling on this and quite a lot of experience. I hope
:32:54. > :32:55.you are looking forward to it. I am, greatly.
:32:56. > :32:58.Now, our guest of the day, Maria Miller, chairs the newly
:32:59. > :32:59.formed Women and Equalities select committee.
:33:00. > :33:02.But with a woman Prime Minister at the helm for a second time
:33:03. > :33:05.and girls now outperforming boys at school, is the work
:33:06. > :33:08.Well, Laura Perrins of the website, The Conservative Woman,
:33:09. > :33:12.Here's her Soapbox on why she thinks feminism is making women
:33:13. > :33:24.Modern feminism ignores what women actually want, which is a balance
:33:25. > :33:30.Feminism has been hijacked by a narrow elite who dominate
:33:31. > :33:38.Lots of women have far more traditional views
:33:39. > :33:40.than they are permitted to admit, which is one of the reasons
:33:41. > :33:44.we set up the website, the Conservative Woman.
:33:45. > :33:48.We used to have a reader who left comments telling us that today's
:33:49. > :33:52.generation of young women were kick ass and confident and going to take
:33:53. > :33:57.over the world, so we had better get used to it.
:33:58. > :34:01.What feminism has produced is a generation of whining,
:34:02. > :34:04.moaning women, who, despite unparalleled
:34:05. > :34:10.opportunity and wealth, view themselves as victims.
:34:11. > :34:21.After at least a decade of feminists claiming victimhood and mounting
:34:22. > :34:27.an extremely effective public campaign to serve their interests,
:34:28. > :34:29.girls now outperform boys all the way through
:34:30. > :34:36.Young women significantly outnumber young men at university and they out
:34:37. > :34:49.earn young man after graduation until the age of about 30.
:34:50. > :34:54.A recent report revealed that 38% of women were worried
:34:55. > :35:06.22% felt depressed, and 55% were worried for their future.
:35:07. > :35:09.The modern 20-something woman has inherited the fruits
:35:10. > :35:14.of the poisonous, feminist ideology that seeks to divide the sexes
:35:15. > :35:34.And Laura joins us now have already started the conversation. Listening
:35:35. > :35:37.to you, the sisterhood will be crying out and saying, you are a
:35:38. > :35:42.traitor to the cause and how on earth is the medicine to be blamed
:35:43. > :35:48.for women being Moni and miserable today? First of all, the first
:35:49. > :35:52.statistic is that only 7% of women identify as feminists. Medium
:35:53. > :35:57.politics is dominated by the agenda when ordinary women do not identify
:35:58. > :36:04.with it at all. Only 7%. The problem with modern feminism is that it is
:36:05. > :36:09.elitist, it in fantasises women by often second-guessing motives and it
:36:10. > :36:13.also, sadly in some cases, can make women genuinely unhappy. It is not
:36:14. > :36:17.those women I feel sorry for those women, and they should be supported.
:36:18. > :36:26.One reason I believe they are unhappy is because of an elitist
:36:27. > :36:31.agenda, a 1% feminist agenda, pushed by people like Maria Miller. What do
:36:32. > :36:34.you say to that, that it is an elitist issue? The menace is not
:36:35. > :36:39.something that has anything to do with the lives of ordinary women.
:36:40. > :36:44.The evidence we took in our select committee and our report to women at
:36:45. > :36:51.work and the payback -- pay gap would suggest that Laura is entirely
:36:52. > :36:58.wrong. The biggest problem hitting women are those on the lowest of
:36:59. > :37:02.pains. When in sectors like caring and hospitality, they will continue
:37:03. > :37:06.to have problems getting the sort of wages they can live on and the sort
:37:07. > :37:10.of career progression that perhaps other women take for granted. Some
:37:11. > :37:15.women in this country, very privileged women, have seen a great
:37:16. > :37:21.deal of change and benefit art of the feminist agenda. We want to make
:37:22. > :37:26.sure that it is everyone in who gets more access to equality in the
:37:27. > :37:30.future. Isn't you'll is really to do with middle-class women? You cite
:37:31. > :37:33.the fact that girls are doing better than boys at school and women are
:37:34. > :37:36.outperforming men throughout education. That is the new
:37:37. > :37:43.generation coming through and you have a problem with middle-class
:37:44. > :37:47.women who use they may be miserable and moany as a result of feminism
:37:48. > :37:51.but that is not entirely fair. Certainly not. The issue of the
:37:52. > :37:55.gender pay gap has been misrepresented in the media can do
:37:56. > :38:02.it ignores first low pay especially on how families work as a unit. The
:38:03. > :38:05.Institute for Fiscal Studies says women and 18% less per hour than
:38:06. > :38:10.men. There is nothing misrepresented about that. That does not take into
:38:11. > :38:31.account part-time work. I have never heard such rubbish.
:38:32. > :38:36.That is because you do not read about it. What is the rubbish?
:38:37. > :38:43.Demolition of the creed of liberation and equality for women.
:38:44. > :38:46.It has not caused women to become whining and unsatisfied. What we
:38:47. > :38:53.need is to see that women ought to be in allowed to take their places
:38:54. > :39:00.on equal terms with men in our society. We are a very long way from
:39:01. > :39:05.that. The pay gap is 30%. Once you are past 30. Why does it go down?
:39:06. > :39:10.Why does it widen when you are past 30, because most of the duties to
:39:11. > :39:17.have and look after children and disproportionately on women. We have
:39:18. > :39:23.not organised our society. They want to do that. I am not saying they do
:39:24. > :39:28.not. We need to organise our society so we care for children and are more
:39:29. > :39:36.child centres and when women do that they do not suffer a career
:39:37. > :39:42.disadvantage. -- child centred. Men and women contribute more. That is a
:39:43. > :39:47.change that feminism brings. When women want to come back into the
:39:48. > :39:51.workplace, are you saying they are not unfairly paid compare it to male
:39:52. > :39:59.counterparts and they are able to do the jobs they did before? --
:40:00. > :40:02.compared to male counterparts. They are not discriminated against once
:40:03. > :40:10.they come back. There is no evidence for that. Let Laura finished. It has
:40:11. > :40:16.been looked into. The Institute of economic affairs has looked into
:40:17. > :40:20.theirs. Women's hour, let's take women's hour. They had a survey out
:40:21. > :40:25.last week. Just let me finish this point. Of the women who work
:40:26. > :40:31.full-time, 56% said they would like to spend more time at home and 1.6%
:40:32. > :40:35.said they wanted to work. That is not the point we were talking about.
:40:36. > :40:43.Let's go back to being discriminated against in terms of pay. You have
:40:44. > :40:47.found different evidence. Let's listen to the evidence from Maria
:40:48. > :40:56.Miller on the Pagan. Our select MIDI took extensive evidence on this. --
:40:57. > :41:01.our select committee. Women over 30 could not go back into the sort of
:41:02. > :41:04.jobs they had before they had children and could not get flexible
:41:05. > :41:09.working enabling them to do the sorts of things they needed to. What
:41:10. > :41:14.we found very clearly was women did want to go back into work, did want
:41:15. > :41:18.to balance children and family commitments and their work lives.
:41:19. > :41:22.Too many employers are not making that available. Britain is suffering
:41:23. > :41:28.as a result. That is why business needs to deal with it. This woman
:41:29. > :41:32.has blamed the existence of Donald Trump on feminism. This is
:41:33. > :41:37.ludicrous. There were male chauvinist pigs long before feminism
:41:38. > :41:43.existed. We have got a liberation movement of women fighting for our
:41:44. > :41:46.equality, not more, fighting for our equality, to deal with issues like
:41:47. > :41:50.that. I won't sit here and be told by some of the better fight for
:41:51. > :41:57.equality causes male chauvinism. It certainly does not. Are you saying
:41:58. > :42:04.the absence of feminism means women would be happier today? I am saying
:42:05. > :42:08.they should not pitting men against women. Just because you do not like
:42:09. > :42:15.somebody's and to view does not mean you can ignore the evidence that is
:42:16. > :42:20.out there. There is conflicting evidence, isn't there? Conflicting
:42:21. > :42:24.because it has been picked out by the medium political elite. It is an
:42:25. > :42:30.important issue. Flexible working and part-time working is what women
:42:31. > :42:33.want. Top-down government initiatives will actually have a
:42:34. > :42:38.chilling effect on employers offering that. I seriously ask you
:42:39. > :42:47.to reconsider those kinds of proposals. It does not work. There
:42:48. > :42:51.are women on the right, like this, who say that if you give women equal
:42:52. > :42:58.pay it would stop women being allowed into the workplace. If you
:42:59. > :43:02.give women maternity leave... This is nonsense. Isn't it the point that
:43:03. > :43:05.the women who want to stay home and look after their children, they
:43:06. > :43:11.don't want to enter the workplace necessarily. Feminism is about
:43:12. > :43:14.choices and creating a society that enables women to stay at home and
:43:15. > :43:19.look after their children if they want or to go out and have a career
:43:20. > :43:22.and children if they want. Laura does not represent the views of the
:43:23. > :43:27.Conservative Party and I think her website could be misinterpreted in
:43:28. > :43:30.that way. The Conservative Party is absolutely focused on making sure
:43:31. > :43:33.that women can do their best in terms of going into work by getting
:43:34. > :43:38.jobs they want, and balancing that in the way they choose to balance
:43:39. > :43:45.it. I think Laura needs to look at the facts. Interestingly, Labour
:43:46. > :43:50.women MPs have always numbered more highly than other women MPs. In
:43:51. > :43:53.terms of Prime Minister is, of course, they have had two female
:43:54. > :43:57.Prime Minister. In a way, reaching the top has been easier or more
:43:58. > :44:04.possible under the Tories and Labour. That is undeniably true. We
:44:05. > :44:08.will carry on fighting. It is interesting to bearing in mind the
:44:09. > :44:12.different approaches, it has not happened. I absolutely accept that
:44:13. > :44:17.point. Will fight and carry on fighting the rest of my life to make
:44:18. > :44:19.sure we do as well in terms of female Prime Minister 's than the
:44:20. > :44:22.Conservative Party. Thank you. Now, looking ahead, let's see
:44:23. > :44:25.what else is coming up this week. At some point this week
:44:26. > :44:27.the government is expected, finally, to back a third
:44:28. > :44:30.runway at Heathrow. That was the recommendation
:44:31. > :44:36.of the Airport Commission last year, but with reports of up to 60
:44:37. > :44:43.backbenchers being opposed to the move, the pressure
:44:44. > :44:46.is on the government to come up Today Ukip's National
:44:47. > :44:48.Executive Committee will meet to discuss the process
:44:49. > :44:50.for electing a new leader. This follows a tumultous few weeks
:44:51. > :44:53.for the party, which ended in a fracas at the European Parliament
:44:54. > :44:56.that saw leadership hopeful On Tuesday the Home
:44:57. > :44:58.Affairs Select Committee will hear from the new chair of
:44:59. > :45:04.the inquiry into child sexual abuse. The inquiry has suffered a number
:45:05. > :45:07.of setbacks, and Professor Alexis Jay is the fourth
:45:08. > :45:12.person to have chaired it. On Thursday voters in Witney,
:45:13. > :45:14.David Cameron's former constituency, There's also another
:45:15. > :45:19.by-election in Batley and Spen, which was triggered after the death
:45:20. > :45:22.of Labour MP Jo Cox, but the main parties
:45:23. > :45:26.will not be contesting that. And Friday will mark Theresa May's
:45:27. > :45:32.first 100 days in office. But while the new PM has emphasised
:45:33. > :45:37.that "Brexit means Brexit", more and more questions are being asked
:45:38. > :45:40.about her government's plan We're joined now in the studio
:45:41. > :45:45.by Kevin Maguire, associate editor of the Daily Mirror,
:45:46. > :46:00.and the Daily Mail's Andrew Pierce. I knew that he would gate-crash...!
:46:01. > :46:02.Is that true? LAUGHTER I couldn't possibly comment. Talking
:46:03. > :46:09.about Philip Hammond and reported splits and tensions in the cabinet,
:46:10. > :46:16.is Philip Hammond the Chancellor a remoaner? He is, and it is visible
:46:17. > :46:19.servants, lukewarm Brexit, soft Brexit, whatever you want to call
:46:20. > :46:23.it, the Treasury is against it and it does not take long for
:46:24. > :46:26.institution of the Treasury to get the chance link to its claws,
:46:27. > :46:30.somebody in the Treasury is leaking stuff.
:46:31. > :46:38.Leaking stuff from government, surely not, that never happens(!)
:46:39. > :46:42.has this row been overblown, talk of Philip Hammond's role as a remoaner?
:46:43. > :46:46.He is looking at the figures and can see the realities of what Brexit
:46:47. > :46:50.might mean and he is concerned for the British economy, next year 's
:46:51. > :46:53.growth figures have been downgraded because of it, we have seen the
:46:54. > :46:59.powerful, hearing all the investors, not just banks but big manufacturers
:47:00. > :47:04.as well warning that they may cut investment, waiting to see how
:47:05. > :47:09.Brexit may work out, and it is not just the Treasury riffing, he has
:47:10. > :47:16.not fallen into the clutches of the Treasury, everybody is briefing, and
:47:17. > :47:18.labour, the governing party is what really counts, right across the
:47:19. > :47:21.governing party, there is a huge differences on where we go. If
:47:22. > :47:24.Philip Hammond is raising concerns, legitimately, in cabinet, Andrew
:47:25. > :47:28.Pierce, and saying he wants to delay migration curbs because it would
:47:29. > :47:33.harm business, isn't that his role? Is that really trying to subvert the
:47:34. > :47:36.democratic will of the people? He is entitled to raise his objections,
:47:37. > :47:40.and resignations, but the Prime Minister made it absolutely clear
:47:41. > :47:44.that free movement of people is one of her red lines, she wants curbs on
:47:45. > :47:51.immigration, he is trying to slow that down, it is fine to slow it
:47:52. > :47:54.down, I think he is resisting the will of the government. Will he get
:47:55. > :48:02.anywhere? Probably, the referendum was won by those who want to quit,
:48:03. > :48:04.Brexiteers, and... Theresa May has said that she has got to deliver
:48:05. > :48:07.Brexit, and to her, that does mean what she certainly implied, that
:48:08. > :48:10.freedom of movement will have two and, and we will not be under the
:48:11. > :48:15.jurisdiction of the European court of justice. She always says Brexit
:48:16. > :48:19.means Brexit but she does not fill in the gap afterwards, she never
:48:20. > :48:25.says what it means, that is where the battle is, ending free movement
:48:26. > :48:29.does not mean ending migration, we will still have a relationship,
:48:30. > :48:36.people will come in, people will go and work from Britain in the rest of
:48:37. > :48:39.the European Union, these attitudes must be had, these arguments must be
:48:40. > :48:41.aired, to pretend everyone is United is a myth. In the Downing Street
:48:42. > :48:45.briefing there was a vote of confidence from the Prime Minister
:48:46. > :48:50.in Philip Hammond, you would expect that, but also... Also LAUGHTER
:48:51. > :48:54.Also number ten make clear that she, Theresa May, once all the ministers
:48:55. > :49:06.working together. That is easier said than done. -- oncewants. You
:49:07. > :49:08.work with Philip Hammond in cabinet, is the one to resist and slow down
:49:09. > :49:13.the progress of Brexit if he believes it is in the best interest
:49:14. > :49:16.of the economy? It is not in the best interest of anybody to slow
:49:17. > :49:23.down Brexit, businesses want certainty and they want the business
:49:24. > :49:25.to be as quick as possible. I don't think the Treasury, or Philip
:49:26. > :49:29.Hammond, who has a good business background, would like to slow that
:49:30. > :49:32.down unnecessarily. We have to come to the right conclusion here, make
:49:33. > :49:39.sure we do not simply leave the YouTube accepts their roles as they
:49:40. > :49:41.are currently. We need to see a change in terms of freedom of
:49:42. > :49:44.movement, we need to... We need to see the laws that affect this
:49:45. > :49:50.country made in this country, that is what people voted for. Do you
:49:51. > :49:53.think Philip Hammond is signed up to delivering Grexit? Every member of
:49:54. > :49:56.the cabinet must be signed up to delivering Brexit, because that is
:49:57. > :50:07.what the British people have voted for. -- Brexit. When it comes to
:50:08. > :50:11.migration, it will be difficult to hit the net migration target if it
:50:12. > :50:14.is delayed. The two do not go together. Theresa May missed it
:50:15. > :50:20.consistently throughout her entire time. We were in the EU, then. I bet
:50:21. > :50:23.that she will continue in the Prime Minister not least because more
:50:24. > :50:26.people come into Britain from outside the European Union than
:50:27. > :50:34.within it, if immigration is your big thing, you should cut off the
:50:35. > :50:36.world instead of Europe! It is about sovereignty and Britain's parliament
:50:37. > :50:40.deciding which laws it has, on migration and labour, what is wrong
:50:41. > :50:46.with the government saying, limiting the influx of cheap unskilled labour
:50:47. > :50:50.from Eastern Europe, we don't need it. Sovereignty of Parliament and
:50:51. > :50:54.yet Theresa May is frightened of giving Parliament votes Andre Gray
:50:55. > :51:02.Article 50 and the terms. Moving on to something else that we have been
:51:03. > :51:04.waiting for a decision on, the airport expansion, Heathrow, looks
:51:05. > :51:07.as if there is another short pause on that announcement, why is that?
:51:08. > :51:15.We have been waiting for 15 years, Frankie, what's another week! But,
:51:16. > :51:18.we still think it will be Heathrow, they will be sorting out Boris
:51:19. > :51:21.Johnson, he once said that he would sit in front of the bulldozer to
:51:22. > :51:24.stop it, perhaps trying to prevent a by-election in Richmond with Zac
:51:25. > :51:30.Goldsmith full. The Shadow Transport Secretary has written a piece saying
:51:31. > :51:33.that a third runway is fine? Most Labour MPs I believe back Heathrow
:51:34. > :51:37.expansion, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell they do not, and so the
:51:38. > :51:40.tried and trusted way of the new Labour Party, they will have a free
:51:41. > :51:48.vote and they will go that way! LAUGHTER
:51:49. > :51:50.Where are you on it? I think Heathrow is probably the best at the
:51:51. > :51:55.moment, not least because it connects the Northern economy with
:51:56. > :52:01.the new gateway that the extra runway will bring about. But I also
:52:02. > :52:06.think that we have got to ensure that the air pollution that would
:52:07. > :52:09.result is dealt with appropriately, and the environmental safeguards are
:52:10. > :52:13.good enough. Jeremy Corbyn is reluctant to support the idea of a
:52:14. > :52:21.third runway and John McDowell, Shadow Chancellor, is dead against
:52:22. > :52:25.it, always has been. What happen to leadership? -- John McDonnell. It is
:52:26. > :52:28.clear to me that we need to make a decision on airport expansion for
:52:29. > :52:33.the good of the economy, the economy is being threatened by other things,
:52:34. > :52:38.not least the shock of Brexit. Without a united front on the Labour
:52:39. > :52:39.leadership? There is probably a majority in the Commons for Heathrow
:52:40. > :52:46.but time will tell. It is hopeless that the opposition
:52:47. > :52:52.cannot form... To be honest, when David Cameron was in opposition...
:52:53. > :53:00.When David Cameron was in opposition he had free votes on all sorts of
:53:01. > :53:02.things and he took the credit. On Heathrow, Labour was for it, the
:53:03. > :53:07.Conservatives were against it, conservatives for it, Labour
:53:08. > :53:11.against. Flip-flop. Maybe a free vote is the only way forward! To
:53:12. > :53:16.people who never free flip-flop on issues and their principles, thank
:53:17. > :53:20.you very much. We reported earlier on the by-election in Witney and we
:53:21. > :53:25.have our very own list of candidates standing in the by-election, that is
:53:26. > :53:32.on-screen now: you can find that list on the BBC website as well.
:53:33. > :53:34.Now, how do you like your political logos?
:53:35. > :53:35.Red flag? Red rose?
:53:36. > :53:37.Maybe you're more of a bird or oak tree person?
:53:38. > :53:40.But what makes a good political logo and what do they say
:53:41. > :53:42.about the parties and politicians they represent?
:53:43. > :53:44.One of our guests has firsthand experience of this
:53:45. > :53:47.after Angela Eagle recently had to devise a logo for her Labour
:53:48. > :53:50.We'll be asking her about that in a moment,
:53:51. > :53:53.but first here's a look at some of the new political logos
:53:54. > :54:47.And, here to cast his eye over all those logos
:54:48. > :54:49.is Benedict Pringle, the founder of
:54:50. > :54:57.Why do they matter? They matter because they differentiate you from
:54:58. > :55:01.the other candidates standing, and they tell the people looking at your
:55:02. > :55:07.campaign a little bit about you, a visual short cut to the candidates
:55:08. > :55:11.values, to their personas, and so, look, a good logo is not going to
:55:12. > :55:16.win you the election but it is not a bad place to spot -- start. Look at
:55:17. > :55:21.this, what did you think of this? I thought the positioning was very
:55:22. > :55:26.strong, boring real leadership is the point of divide between her and
:55:27. > :55:30.Jeremy Corbyn, very sensible. I thought, however, the general look
:55:31. > :55:35.and feel of it for me did not feel particularly authentic to Angela.
:55:36. > :55:40.That is my signature, that is me! LAUGHTER
:55:41. > :55:43.Is it a bit behind the signature? Well, I have played chess for my
:55:44. > :55:47.country, and when I was sat there, with the little flag, doing my
:55:48. > :55:51.chess, I was as proud as proud and they, as a lot of those Olympians
:55:52. > :55:58.will be marching through what I hope is a wonderful procession. That is a
:55:59. > :56:02.flag... It is the UK flag. How long did you think about this? I'm sure
:56:03. > :56:06.you are proud of being a chess champion, but... It was a long time
:56:07. > :56:10.ago! What was going through your mind when you devised this? Well, it
:56:11. > :56:15.was done very quickly, because obviously, you have a load of other
:56:16. > :56:20.things to do and you do not have a megabudget. It is a signature, and a
:56:21. > :56:26.quick message, that is all you can hope to get. Why the colour pink?
:56:27. > :56:37.Well, it is not really paint, it is pinkish. -- not really pink. Owen
:56:38. > :56:40.Smith, stood the leadership, we don't have time to get into a debate
:56:41. > :56:49.about colour, we had this in the past. What about this one? This
:56:50. > :56:53.is... A bit boring... He just wanted to avoid slipping on a banana skin.
:56:54. > :57:00.I don't think he gained or lost anything from it. Jeremy Corbyn's...
:57:01. > :57:05.This was his second logo, of his first leadership campaign, a
:57:06. > :57:09.commentator on my website commented that maybe there is a hidden meaning
:57:10. > :57:14.in this logo, does it say up with the left and down with the right?
:57:15. > :57:20.Well! You would have to have thought about that...! Is that what it said
:57:21. > :57:29.to you? I had never thought of it in that way... Perfectly reasonable
:57:30. > :57:32.design. Keeping very safe there are! Sadiq Khan, news logo for Mayor of
:57:33. > :57:36.London, did you like this? This was a logo, contemporary, bright,
:57:37. > :57:42.colourful. Nice graphic of the Thames, who doesn't like rivers(!)
:57:43. > :57:45.it is politically neutral, as well. Willing to cross the divide, that is
:57:46. > :57:48.always sensible. Do you think there was a lot of money spent on that? I
:57:49. > :57:54.know that that was done in-house at the Labour Party, so not that much
:57:55. > :57:57.money was spent on it. So not always about money, you don't have to spend
:57:58. > :58:02.a fortune. Very often you have to have a clear idea about what you
:58:03. > :58:07.want to say, and ideas are free. You have some ideas for Angela Eagle,
:58:08. > :58:11.here you go. Here you go... A gift! Symbol of leadership and strength,
:58:12. > :58:20.going back to Roman times, a gift of a name! Looks a bit liberal... And a
:58:21. > :58:24.kind of Dove peace thing going on, so you represent leadership,
:58:25. > :58:27.strength, unity... Maria Miller, we will not leave you out, we have one
:58:28. > :58:36.for you. I thought, if the time comes... Influence of Hillary in
:58:37. > :58:40.there! The only way is up, good strapline if your party is in times
:58:41. > :58:45.of trouble. And you have your theme song there as well! Looks a bit
:58:46. > :58:48.industrial, I would go for something softer, the Conservative Party route
:58:49. > :58:52.that you can move from the torch to the tree and actually make the
:58:53. > :58:56.change really smoothly. She has been thinking about it, standing for the
:58:57. > :59:03.next leadership(!) and give very much for coming in, and for your
:59:04. > :59:05.ideas. -- thank you very much for coming in.
:59:06. > :59:12.I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories