:00:36. > :00:38.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.Ukip's trapped in a death spiral, according to the man who once
:00:42. > :00:46.looked like becoming the party's next leader.
:00:47. > :00:48.Steven Woolfe says he's resigning following that famous
:00:49. > :00:52.Can any of the candidates still in the running hope to stop
:00:53. > :00:58.We'll have the latest on the battle to retake the Iraqi City of Mosul
:00:59. > :01:01.from the so-called Islamic State, in what could prove to be
:01:02. > :01:04.a turning point in the fight against the militants.
:01:05. > :01:08.MPs have been debating the future of England's pharmacies,
:01:09. > :01:13.after claims that government plans could see thousands close.
:01:14. > :01:15.And now that David Cameron's gone, who will mourn the passing
:01:16. > :01:24.We'll be looking at the end of a successful political cliques.
:01:25. > :01:27.We'll be looking at the end of a successful political clique.
:01:28. > :01:30.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:31. > :01:33.of the programme today, it's the Conservative MP Nick Boles.
:01:34. > :01:35.He's been Planning Minister, Skills Minister, but he stood down
:01:36. > :01:42.He once described himself as an attendant
:01:43. > :01:49.Which makes him aristocracy in our book - welcome to the show.
:01:50. > :01:51.Let's start today by talking about the battle to retake
:01:52. > :01:54.the Iraqi city of Mosul from the so-called Islamic State.
:01:55. > :02:01.British aircraft were involved in coalition airstrikes
:02:02. > :02:04.against the group in the area yesterday, and Iraqi forces are this
:02:05. > :02:06.morning "ahead of schedule", according to the Pentagon,
:02:07. > :02:19.The jihadists overran Mosul in 2014 before taking control of much
:02:20. > :02:27.This is the area controlled by the militants in January last
:02:28. > :02:31.year when Islamic State had spread across Iraq and Syria.
:02:32. > :02:34.At its peak it's thought that 10 million people lived
:02:35. > :02:39.But it is thought to have now lost about a quarter of that territory,
:02:40. > :02:42.and Mosul is the jihadists' last major urban stronghold
:02:43. > :02:46.Well, we can speak now to Edgard Jallad from
:02:47. > :02:58.So, this is going to be an extremely important stage in the fight against
:02:59. > :03:05.IS, because Mosul is symbolically some important to them? Yes, this is
:03:06. > :03:10.a turning point as you mentioned. This is the capital of the caliphate
:03:11. > :03:14.and if you look deep into the philosophy of the so-called Islamic
:03:15. > :03:21.State, it is based on ruling people on a piece of land. And if they
:03:22. > :03:25.start losing the land, they are losing their raison d'etre, so they
:03:26. > :03:28.have to change their strategy in the future and this is what many of the
:03:29. > :03:33.experts in jihadist groups are analysing now and saying what could
:03:34. > :03:39.be the next step for them if they lose Mosul and they are left with
:03:40. > :03:43.Raqqa only. So most of them think they will change their tactics, they
:03:44. > :03:49.will change radically their strategies to something similar to
:03:50. > :03:54.Al-Qaeda, from controlling land to targeting specific targets in the
:03:55. > :03:58.West, or even in the region where they are operating. So we have to
:03:59. > :04:02.wait and see. This is a long battle and it will take some time because
:04:03. > :04:10.it did not start an engagement between the Iraqi forces and the
:04:11. > :04:17.so-called Islamic State fighters didn't start yet. So so far they are
:04:18. > :04:23.trying to tighten up around their defences which are concentrated in
:04:24. > :04:29.the western part of the Mosul city. So far the battle was taking place
:04:30. > :04:34.mainly in the eastern part. Are they going to stay and fight? There has
:04:35. > :04:38.been some talk that maybe they would flee the IS fighters? They will
:04:39. > :04:42.continue to fight because they have no other options. Some people
:04:43. > :04:46.thought they might flee and there was some psychological pressure from
:04:47. > :04:51.them by throwing leaflets and trying to persuade them to leave for the
:04:52. > :04:56.western part of the country, because there is still a corridor open to
:04:57. > :05:02.them, taking them to Syria, to rack, and it was left on purpose it seems.
:05:03. > :05:07.And what about civilians being protected? We have seen pictures
:05:08. > :05:15.from Mosul earlier today. How will they be protected when they battle
:05:16. > :05:19.starts? Is the most difficult part and the concern of the international
:05:20. > :05:25.community about hundreds of thousands of civilians who are stuck
:05:26. > :05:29.inside these areas. So far, the Iraqi government and the coalition
:05:30. > :05:34.just dropped leaflets asking them to stay in safe places or to leave
:05:35. > :05:38.before the start of the battle. Definitely the civilians will play
:05:39. > :05:41.the highest price in this battle. The second worry of these citizens
:05:42. > :05:48.is the sectarian problem of the country. We all know that Mosul has
:05:49. > :05:54.a Sunni majority and the Iraqi army has a Shia majority. This was the
:05:55. > :05:58.element that was delaying this battle for a long period of time, so
:05:59. > :06:03.this is the biggest challenge of the Iraqi government to prove they are a
:06:04. > :06:15.government for all Iraqis and not a sect of them only. Thank you.
:06:16. > :06:18.And we're expecting a statement on events in Mosul from a defence
:06:19. > :06:22.minister in the Commons in the next hour or so.
:06:23. > :06:29.One presumes that if Mosul is retaken by the Iraqi army, what will
:06:30. > :06:33.that do in the minds of British voters and parliamentarians, in
:06:34. > :06:36.terms of the debate in our involvement in foreign wars? I think
:06:37. > :06:40.it will be at Mendis Lee important step because Iraqi is a democratic
:06:41. > :06:44.government, it is an ally of the West and it has been an appalling
:06:45. > :06:48.state of affairs that effectively a huge portion of the country was not
:06:49. > :06:54.in control of the Iraqi government and was in control of Isil, and it
:06:55. > :06:58.will be psychologically a hugely damaging blow to Isil, across the
:06:59. > :07:04.whole of the rest of the Middle East. People who might have thought
:07:05. > :07:07.of supporting them, indeed, some of our own population who might have
:07:08. > :07:10.thought of joining them or supporting them, are less likely to
:07:11. > :07:16.be attracted to them when they see they are actually on the back foot
:07:17. > :07:21.and losing territory in this way. Do you think it will rewrite the story
:07:22. > :07:25.of Iraqi, when we go back to the original water and the millions who
:07:26. > :07:31.stood and marched against that intervention in Iraq and here we are
:07:32. > :07:35.in 2016, if IS does have to fall back and it does look like a victory
:07:36. > :07:41.in an overall defeat against IS, will that bolster people into
:07:42. > :07:45.thinking it will be a good thing to intervene? I think it will be hard
:07:46. > :07:48.to shift those views. They have been well entrenched over many years and
:07:49. > :07:58.there is a huge passion between them -- behind them, but I hope people
:07:59. > :08:01.will stick by our Iraqi allies. They are a democratic government and they
:08:02. > :08:04.asked us to help and we are right to do so.
:08:05. > :08:07.Now Ukip likes to style itself as the People's Army,
:08:08. > :08:08.but it's been showing anything but military discipline
:08:09. > :08:13.Last night the man who once seemed a shoo-in as the party's next
:08:14. > :08:16.leader, the MEP Steven Woolfe, announced that not only would he not
:08:17. > :08:18.be standing but that he was resigning from the party.
:08:19. > :08:20.Mr Woolfe, who spent days in hospital after an altercation
:08:21. > :08:24.with a fellow MEP, said the party is now trapped in a death spiral.
:08:25. > :08:26.Steven Woolfe said his altercation with fellow MEP Mike Hookem
:08:27. > :08:29.at the European Parliament in Strasbourg had left him
:08:30. > :08:35.Describing the incident, Mr Woolfe said he asked Mr Hookem
:08:36. > :08:40.to leave a heated meeting of Ukip MEPs for a "man to man" chat
:08:41. > :08:43.which he never intended to become physical.
:08:44. > :08:45.Mr Woolfe then maintains that Mike Hookem rushed at him
:08:46. > :08:52.Mr Hookem has consistently denied assaulting Mr Woolfe,
:08:53. > :08:54.saying "there were no punches thrown" and he acted
:08:55. > :09:01.Responding to Mr Woolfe's resignation, Mr Hookem said
:09:02. > :09:06.Steven Woolfe's career had effectively ended "once he showed
:09:07. > :09:08.disloyalty to the Ukip party" when he
:09:09. > :09:13.Mr Woolfe may be out of the running but the party's ruling body -
:09:14. > :09:17.it's NEC - says a new leader will be in place by 28th November.
:09:18. > :09:25.Nominations open today and will close on 31st October.
:09:26. > :09:27.There will be a series of hustings
:09:28. > :09:33.So, who is likely to be in the running?
:09:34. > :09:36.Ukip MEP Bill Etheridge is standing, as is former Nigel Farage aide
:09:37. > :09:39.And former London Mayoral candidate Peter Whittle has also
:09:40. > :09:44.But what about potential front-runners Suzanne Evans
:09:45. > :09:49.So, far neither have put their hat in the ring.
:09:50. > :09:54.Expect announcements from them - and others - in the next week.
:09:55. > :09:58.Let's have a listen to Mr Woolfe speaking to the BBC's Alex Forsyth.
:09:59. > :10:02.There is something rotten at the heart of Ukip,
:10:03. > :10:06.rotten between its MEPs who have an internecine warfare,
:10:07. > :10:11.the National Executive which has caused sides to fight.
:10:12. > :10:15.The way that some of them forced out Diane in making sure
:10:16. > :10:18.that she wasn't able to do the job that she would have
:10:19. > :10:24.The way that they challenged me during the previous election
:10:25. > :10:28.in trying to stop me from standing, releasing personal information
:10:29. > :10:31.to the press, suggesting I wasn't even a member and all that has done
:10:32. > :10:39.to me has made me realise that I can no longer be a part of Ukip.
:10:40. > :10:42.We're joined now by the Ukip MEP Bill Etheridge.
:10:43. > :10:47.He's in Brussels and as I said he's standing for leader,
:10:48. > :10:54.and by the NEC member and former leadership hopeful Liz Jones.
:10:55. > :11:01.Welcome to both of you. First of all, Bill Etheridge, Steven Woolfe
:11:02. > :11:07.has left the party, should Mike Hookem follow him out of the door? I
:11:08. > :11:11.believe the NEC have full enquiry results to look at and they will
:11:12. > :11:16.take a judgment from that, so it will be wrong of me to make any
:11:17. > :11:21.further comment. I trust our NEC and the party to do the right thing. It
:11:22. > :11:26.is very unfortunate that Stephen has taken the action he has. You don't
:11:27. > :11:33.think that Steven Woolfe should have resigned from the party altogether?
:11:34. > :11:36.Well, Steven was elected due to the hard work of Ukip activists and
:11:37. > :11:41.voters putting him where he is today. Then he decides because he is
:11:42. > :11:45.disappointed about some things he will sit on his own as an
:11:46. > :11:49.independent. Not really the right choice in my opinion. Perhaps he
:11:50. > :11:53.should roll the sleeves up and put things right. Isn't it the
:11:54. > :11:59.honourable thing to do and should Mike Hookem do the same? He is
:12:00. > :12:02.choosing to bow out after this embarrassing altercation? I don't
:12:03. > :12:07.believe there is anything honourable at all. You are elected under the
:12:08. > :12:12.party banner, not as an individual. The really honourable thing to do
:12:13. > :12:16.would be to stop being an MEP and let someone else from the party
:12:17. > :12:22.takeover. Quite frankly, I'm disappointed with what Sam-macro --
:12:23. > :12:33.Steven has done but now it is time to look to the future. You were
:12:34. > :12:41.first on the scene, what did you see? I did not really see anything
:12:42. > :12:47.at the time. Soap Steven Woolfe has misremembered? Not at all. Did he
:12:48. > :12:52.misremembered? I haven't a clue and frankly, what he says is irrelevant
:12:53. > :12:58.to Ukip. He has left. We have to get on with our important work of
:12:59. > :13:03.pursuing Brexit. Steven Woolfe says Ukip is in a death spiral and there
:13:04. > :13:11.is something rotten at the heart of the party. Is he right? He is
:13:12. > :13:15.completely wrong. Do recent events demonstrate he is wrong? Certainly.
:13:16. > :13:20.We're looking at the headline activities of MEPs who are elected.
:13:21. > :13:24.As Bill rightly says they are elected through the list system
:13:25. > :13:30.where you merely vote under the party banner. You do not vote for
:13:31. > :13:34.the individual. Meanwhile, while we have all this hullabaloo,
:13:35. > :13:39.Hartlepool, we have won a councillor, 49%, Ashford, we have
:13:40. > :13:44.won another councillor 42%, the grassroots of Ukip are continuing
:13:45. > :13:49.with their excellent activism and pushing forward the message of
:13:50. > :13:54.Brexit. But people have defected and even Steven Woolfe is reported to
:13:55. > :13:59.have talked to the Tories. There are reports that donors are withdrawing
:14:00. > :14:03.their money from the party. There is party infighting. Which part of
:14:04. > :14:09.Steven Woolfe saying it is innate death spiral is wrong? All of it.
:14:10. > :14:14.There is only one donor who said he may possibly cease funding to the
:14:15. > :14:20.party and that is Aaron Banks. He did not say for certain he would be
:14:21. > :14:25.ceasing funding. That is one donor. We have an array of donors. I'm sure
:14:26. > :14:31.once they get behind a balanced steady leader we should move forward
:14:32. > :14:38.and funds will come. Is part of the instability part of the NEC's fault?
:14:39. > :14:43.It stopped some candidates from standing last time and allowed the
:14:44. > :14:50.divisive Neil Hamilton into the party. If there is party infighting
:14:51. > :14:53.it is down to you? Not at all. The processes by which Steven Woolfe's
:14:54. > :14:58.leadership application where processed were at highly aboveboard
:14:59. > :15:03.and appropriate. He did not reveal a criminal conviction when he entered
:15:04. > :15:07.into the Police and Crime Commissioner 's election. He had not
:15:08. > :15:13.revealed that to us. Is that why you stopped him, not because he got his
:15:14. > :15:16.papers in late? It is a punitive effect. We had the issue of not
:15:17. > :15:23.disclosing a criminal conviction. Then we had the issue of the late
:15:24. > :15:26.paperwork. Then we have the issue of the somewhat tired and emotional
:15:27. > :15:33.incident on his birthday, he was 49, that happened between him and Mike
:15:34. > :15:39.Hookem. It sounds personal. I don't know what the relationship is
:15:40. > :15:44.between him and Mike Hookem. No, I mean between you, the NEC and Steven
:15:45. > :15:47.Woolfe. Order has to be maintained and rules have to be followed
:15:48. > :15:49.because all rules have to apply to every single member, whether you are
:15:50. > :15:59.grassroots or an MEP. Can this party function without
:16:00. > :16:02.Nigel Farage? Of course it can. It will flung again. There are some
:16:03. > :16:07.that say it's not functioning at the moment. He is there as interim
:16:08. > :16:13.leader. Does it need Nigel Farage, is the only person to lead the
:16:14. > :16:16.party? Of course it isn't. Nigel is an inspiration to us and he will
:16:17. > :16:20.always be someone we always look to and glad to have around but of
:16:21. > :16:24.course we don't just need one man. We have very many number of talented
:16:25. > :16:27.people here who can lead this party, it just needs some grit and
:16:28. > :16:30.determination and bringing order to the situation which we are going to
:16:31. > :16:34.do. We will get back to business as normal. There will be no problem.
:16:35. > :16:39.Why would you want to do it at this point? We have just had this
:16:40. > :16:43.discussion. I cannot see anything that would be deeply attractive for
:16:44. > :16:46.a prospective leader. Well, the reason I want to do it because I
:16:47. > :16:49.believe in this party and I believe in what we can bring to the people
:16:50. > :16:53.of our country and frankly if it's allowed to drift then we may well
:16:54. > :16:57.get to a situation where things start going badly wrong. It's time
:16:58. > :17:00.to get a grip of the situation and I think one of my skills that I can
:17:01. > :17:04.bring is the fact I am a tough nut. And we need someone now who is firm,
:17:05. > :17:08.steady and can take control of the situation, get us back on track and
:17:09. > :17:11.back actually fighting the other parties and fighting for freedom and
:17:12. > :17:15.Brexit and I think I am the guy. Let's go back to the NEC. At the
:17:16. > :17:18.moment you are the one that is trying to keep the party together.
:17:19. > :17:22.You changed the rules to make sure any leadership candidate had been a
:17:23. > :17:26.party member for five years. Then two years, now it's 28 days. Why do
:17:27. > :17:30.you keep changing the leadership rules? We keep changing the
:17:31. > :17:36.leadership rules because that was decided at the NEC, it was
:17:37. > :17:40.considered that in order to stop various conspiracies coming to
:17:41. > :17:44.light, in order to stop mistrust, let everyone stand. 28 days'
:17:45. > :17:47.membership and anyone can stand. Right it hasn't exactly led to a
:17:48. > :17:51.consistent approach. Are you going to stand? I don't know at the
:17:52. > :17:55.moment. The bar is rather high now, you have to get 20% of the vote in
:17:56. > :18:01.order to have your deposit returned which is ?5,000. You have to pay an
:18:02. > :18:06.immediate administration fee of ?500 and a further fee of ?1,000 in
:18:07. > :18:09.order... So too expensive for you? Maybe not, it's cost benefit
:18:10. > :18:14.analysis. Will I recover and get more than 20%? Probably unlikely. So
:18:15. > :18:19.cost benefit analysis. Bill, you are laughing there, what are you
:18:20. > :18:23.laughing at? Well, I think it is rather expensive. I like the way
:18:24. > :18:27.that Liz puts these things. She's got a certain turn of phrase.
:18:28. > :18:31.Frankly, you know, it's worth it for the party's sake. I think Liz is a
:18:32. > :18:35.good person, I would like to think she would vote for me but I am being
:18:36. > :18:38.cheeky there. But the main thing is we get this sorted as soon as
:18:39. > :18:41.possible. Will you vote for him, if you don't stand it doesn't sound
:18:42. > :18:45.like you are minded to at the moment, will you vote for Bill I
:18:46. > :18:50.will reserve judgment on that until I know what the full... Are you
:18:51. > :18:54.holding out for Suzanne Evans and Paul Nutall. I don't know who else
:18:55. > :18:58.is going to come out of the woodwork. Would you like those two
:18:59. > :19:02.is to stand We would like as many people as possible to stand. Would
:19:03. > :19:06.you like to see those two stand? Absolutely. We want the best field
:19:07. > :19:09.of candidates possible. I think it's time that a few things were settled
:19:10. > :19:13.and that we got on with business as usual afterwards. Yeah, bring them
:19:14. > :19:16.all on. Let's have a good proper debate. Settle the scores peacefully
:19:17. > :19:18.perhaps in the future. Yes, good luck to you. Always, always. Thank
:19:19. > :19:23.you for coming in. There are not one but two
:19:24. > :19:24.parliamentary by-elections Yesterday we were in west
:19:25. > :19:27.Oxfordshire, where the departure of former Prime Minister David Cameron
:19:28. > :19:29.has created a vacancy. But today Adam's been
:19:30. > :19:34.to the Yorkshire constituency of Batley and Spen, where voters
:19:35. > :19:37.are preparing to go to the polls four months after the killing
:19:38. > :19:40.of the Labour MP Jo Cox At the train station, the way this
:19:41. > :19:49.constituency wants to be seen, courtesy of a mural
:19:50. > :19:51.in the underpass. The place is dotted
:19:52. > :19:53.with towns and villages It's home to some famous brands
:19:54. > :19:57.like Johnstons Paints. It used to be home to
:19:58. > :20:01.the Frontier Club which played host to people like Shirley Bassey
:20:02. > :20:05.and Louis Armstong in the 50s, Here you will find the HQ
:20:06. > :20:14.of Fox's Biscuits. In Batley itself there is a big
:20:15. > :20:16.Asian community And, it's also home
:20:17. > :20:19.to Batley Bulldogs But there is also a tribute
:20:20. > :20:23.to Jo Cox, a reminder of why this At the cafe next door to her office
:20:24. > :20:29.the mums still remember A lot of kids were crying
:20:30. > :20:33.and everyone was upset and when we got the text message
:20:34. > :20:37.from school saying they were locking the school down until further
:20:38. > :20:43.notice it was scary. You just want to be able to pick
:20:44. > :20:46.them up and bring them home It means there is hardly
:20:47. > :20:50.any by-election buzz. Have you even noticed
:20:51. > :20:51.anything is happening? Not in Batley, being
:20:52. > :20:53.truthful, not at all, no. I don't think anybody realises it's
:20:54. > :20:57.happening to be fair. That's because the party leaders
:20:58. > :21:01.at the time didn't just leave flowers after Jo Cox's death,
:21:02. > :21:05.out of respect David Cameron said the Tories wouldn't stand,
:21:06. > :21:07.neither have the Lib Dems, Chatting to voters most understand
:21:08. > :21:16.the sentiment but a few Of the ten candidates
:21:17. > :21:36.who are standing several are from the Smaller right-wing
:21:37. > :21:38.and they've been accused of trying And there's been a controversial
:21:39. > :21:41.leaflet. It purports to be from
:21:42. > :21:43.the Britain Stronger in Europe Because it doesn't say
:21:44. > :21:46.who it's really from, In normal times we'd find out
:21:47. > :21:50.if a constituency that voted to leave the EU would return
:21:51. > :21:53.a candidate who voted to remain. How a re-elected Jeremy Corbyn goes
:21:54. > :21:56.down with actual voters, how the parties are faring
:21:57. > :21:58.in the Brexit era but these are not normal times
:21:59. > :22:00.here in Batley and Spen. As Adam said, the major parties
:22:01. > :22:04.are not fielding candidates in Batley and Spen out of respect
:22:05. > :22:08.for the death of Jo Cox, but for a list of the candidates
:22:09. > :22:11.who are standing for election on Thursday, you can
:22:12. > :22:17.visit bbc.co.uk/politics. The parliamentary system
:22:18. > :22:18.for allowing backbenchers to get their own laws
:22:19. > :22:21.onto the statute books is 'broken and discredited',
:22:22. > :22:23.according to a report today. The Commons procedure committee
:22:24. > :22:30.wants to stop private members bills being blocked by MPs talking them
:22:31. > :22:33.out, and says the government Here's Ellie with a reminder of how
:22:34. > :22:38.it all works. The ballot for private members'
:22:39. > :22:46.bills in the present session It's a big day if
:22:47. > :22:49.you're a backbencher. The lottery to decide which MPs
:22:50. > :22:52.will get the chance to put It can be a cause they've long
:22:53. > :22:58.championed or one they've been And some could capture
:22:59. > :23:03.the country's attention. Mr Speaker, it is an honour for me
:23:04. > :23:21.to put forward a bill which has at its heart,
:23:22. > :23:27.the heart of our democracy. This private members' bill
:23:28. > :23:29.was eventually defeated in the Lords, but it shows just how
:23:30. > :23:32.high profile they can be. Legislation to abolish the death
:23:33. > :23:36.penalty and legalising abortion started life as private
:23:37. > :23:37.members' bills. It's really only the first seven
:23:38. > :23:41.that stand any chance of getting anywhere,
:23:42. > :23:46.that's because they've got the most Of those seven, far fewer
:23:47. > :23:49.are expected to succeed. In fact, last year,
:23:50. > :23:53.just four got through. One of the reasons is that under
:23:54. > :23:57.current rules there is no time limit on speeches and no guarantee
:23:58. > :24:02.of a vote at the end the debate so opponents can simply talk
:24:03. > :24:05.out or filibuster bills There is also a very big
:24:06. > :24:07.geographic inequality. Deputy Speaker, this speaker has
:24:08. > :24:15.already been speaking for one hour It is no mean feat but it is also
:24:16. > :24:22.one of the ways critics say And we're joined now by the chairman
:24:23. > :24:33.of the procedure committee, I should say we have been in touch
:24:34. > :24:38.with the Government for a response to MrWalker's report and they
:24:39. > :24:42.promised to get back to us shortly. Should I hold my breath? Are you
:24:43. > :24:46.expect one shortly? We will get a response and I hope it's a positive
:24:47. > :24:52.response. The private members' bill system is just a farce. It's a
:24:53. > :24:56.charade most of the time. The real problems centre on the ballot.
:24:57. > :25:01.Because it's like a roll of a dice. 440 MPs put their name into the
:25:02. > :25:06.ballot, 20 are drawn out. You have a one in 20 chance of really one in 22
:25:07. > :25:12.chance of being one of the lucky winners. That absolutely militates
:25:13. > :25:17.against people investing serious time in developing legislative. Do
:25:18. > :25:20.you agree I do, in life, generally hard work should be rewarded and you
:25:21. > :25:24.by and large don't want random chance to determine who is actually
:25:25. > :25:28.going to take forward an idea and propose it to the House of Commons
:25:29. > :25:32.as legislation. You want somebody who's really worked at it and talked
:25:33. > :25:35.to relevant people and researched it and prepared the ground and that's
:25:36. > :25:38.what would be ensured by the system he is proposing. Do you think the
:25:39. > :25:42.Government's dragged its feet on reform I think the Government's got
:25:43. > :25:45.a lot else on its plate at the moment and we have a new Government
:25:46. > :25:51.and it's fair enough. But I think I agree with Charles that the response
:25:52. > :25:53.of the last Government to proposals for reform were somewhat
:25:54. > :25:56.disappointing. We have a fantastic new leader of the House of Commons
:25:57. > :26:00.in David Lidington and I am very hopeful that he will take a positive
:26:01. > :26:04.approach. What about the quality of the legislation and the proposals,
:26:05. > :26:08.isn't that the problem rather than the random nature of how they're
:26:09. > :26:12.selected? The key recommendation is up to the first four bills under our
:26:13. > :26:18.new system, chosen by the back bench business committee. That would allow
:26:19. > :26:23.serious minded legislators to spend a year, two years, working across
:26:24. > :26:27.the House, working with permanent Secretaries, Ministers, Shadow
:26:28. > :26:30.ministers and experts to work out a properly thought out proposition.
:26:31. > :26:35.The current system is the name comes out of the ballot, you go oh my
:26:36. > :26:38.word, what the hell am I going to do? The Chief Whip of the
:26:39. > :26:42.Conservative Party will say here is Government handout bill, do this. If
:26:43. > :26:44.you are an opposition member with no support you get a worthy charity,
:26:45. > :26:48.take this piece of legislation through and actually in the main
:26:49. > :26:51.that piece of legislation is poorly thought out and drafted and
:26:52. > :26:55.shouldn't become law. The problem is with the quality of the proposed
:26:56. > :26:59.legislation or the proposed bill that's coming from MPs and I
:27:00. > :27:03.underline the point not coming from the Government in this particular
:27:04. > :27:07.instance. If it's not a very worthwhile piece of legislation,
:27:08. > :27:10.whoever is choosing it, it's not going to get enough parliamentary
:27:11. > :27:16.support, is it? That may be the case. In a sense I think the process
:27:17. > :27:20.and including the filiBuster process, would be less objectionable
:27:21. > :27:23.if you thought that the bills that were getting the greatest chance of
:27:24. > :27:27.success were ones where the back bench business committee had taken a
:27:28. > :27:33.view as to the level of preparation and the thought throughness of the
:27:34. > :27:37.legislation. Because actually, you know, my dear colleagues they do
:27:38. > :27:40.actually - they are open to persuasion when an idea is really,
:27:41. > :27:44.really good and has huge support. That says it's not the system that
:27:45. > :27:48.is broke, it is just the quality of what is being put forward. No, it is
:27:49. > :27:51.the system. If the name comes out of the ballot you have three weeks to
:27:52. > :27:55.come up with a legislative proposition, three weeks to get
:27:56. > :28:00.something on the table. That is just simply not long enough to craft a
:28:01. > :28:05.thought out, well thought out piece of legislation. Right, except you
:28:06. > :28:10.can have party MPs working around the person who has been pulled out
:28:11. > :28:17.of the ballot with an important piece of legislation, we saw James
:28:18. > :28:21.Wharton there with the EU referendum bill. That wasn't quite a Government
:28:22. > :28:26.bill, because the Lib Dems were in Government then. That was Jaime
:28:27. > :28:32.Wharton's, his life would be made misrain if he said I want to do my
:28:33. > :28:35.own thing. He would still be trying to get back to earth! One of the
:28:36. > :28:39.points surely of this referendum that we have been through and I was
:28:40. > :28:43.on the Remain side in this campaign, but one of the reasons why people
:28:44. > :28:47.voted to leave is because they wanted parliament to assert itself
:28:48. > :28:51.and parliament to be the source of legislation. Like having a vote on
:28:52. > :28:55.the terms of the negotiation No, on the strategic priorities for the
:28:56. > :28:58.negotiation discussed in parliament. But the point is they didn't mean
:28:59. > :29:03.they want the Government to have a bigger role, they want parliament to
:29:04. > :29:07.assert itself and one way is for backbenchers to assert themselves in
:29:08. > :29:10.a cessible way. It is a modest change we are proposing. It sounds
:29:11. > :29:17.fairly sensible. Let's see what the response is going to be. On
:29:18. > :29:22.filibustering, that seems like a deliberate device to talk out bills
:29:23. > :29:26.that people are opposed to, as we saw Philip Davis doing. Is it also
:29:27. > :29:30.an opportunity to expose flaws in legislation that might not otherwise
:29:31. > :29:33.be explored? Under the current system I am sad to say if the
:29:34. > :29:38.Government isn't willing to kill off a bill itself you need people on the
:29:39. > :29:42.back benches to talk it out. The most unattractive thing about the
:29:43. > :29:45.system is when you see a Government Minister welcoming a legislative
:29:46. > :29:50.proposition, while at the same time Government whips are working on the
:29:51. > :29:55.back benches organising a filibuster. If the Government wants
:29:56. > :29:58.to kill off a bill it should dip its hand in blood. It should not get the
:29:59. > :30:03.whips doing another thing object the back benches. You are nodding in
:30:04. > :30:08.treatment agreement I am shocked! Yes, I can see how authentic and
:30:09. > :30:09.genuine that shock is! If we get a response from the Government we will
:30:10. > :30:23.tell our viewers. The government's decision on airport
:30:24. > :30:27.capacity will be made by a subcommittee next week. We had
:30:28. > :30:31.thought it would be this week. It was reported there would be a cause
:30:32. > :30:35.for Cabinet ministers to express their views but which Cabinet
:30:36. > :30:41.ministers views we don't know on airport expansion. Ministers opposed
:30:42. > :30:46.to the decision will be allowed to express their personal views for a
:30:47. > :30:52.limited period. So we will have a third runway at Heathrow, is that
:30:53. > :30:57.what you are expecting? I hope so. We have Stansted down the road so I
:30:58. > :31:02.think many of my constituents will be delighted to see a third runway
:31:03. > :31:04.at Heathrow. On that, we will say goodbye.
:31:05. > :31:07.MPs have been debating the future of pharmacies in England
:31:08. > :31:09.following the suggestion that as many as 3,000 could be
:31:10. > :31:11.forced to close by cuts to Government funding.
:31:12. > :31:14.Labour used an urgent question in the Commons yesterday to warn
:31:15. > :31:16.the plans were a false economy, while ministers said it was too
:31:17. > :31:18.early to talk about pharmacies shutting their doors.
:31:19. > :31:21.Ministers have been, frankly, all over the place.
:31:22. > :31:24.We've had mixed messages and false hope.
:31:25. > :31:27.The Government announced a pause to these cuts.
:31:28. > :31:30.Isn't there now a compelling case that we must make this
:31:31. > :31:40.Mr Speaker, he hasn't got any mixed messages from me.
:31:41. > :31:46.There was a pause that was announced because the original consultation
:31:47. > :31:49.gave the intent to go ahead with this on 1st October
:31:50. > :31:53.With a change of Government, the change of Prime Minister,
:31:54. > :31:55.new Chancellor, new Ministers, we took the opportunity
:31:56. > :31:58.to have a look at this again to make sure that we get it
:31:59. > :32:00.right for the patients, for the NHS and for
:32:01. > :32:07.We're joined now by the Labour MP Kevin Barron, who's chair
:32:08. > :32:14.of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on pharmacies.
:32:15. > :32:19.Welcome to the Daily Politics. The government says the final savings
:32:20. > :32:25.package is still to be announced. We just heard a new Health Minister
:32:26. > :32:30.consulting on the changes. Is talk of thousands of farmers is closing
:32:31. > :32:35.an exaggeration? That started with the civil servants, quite frankly.
:32:36. > :32:40.It was a chief pharmacy officer who said that to us that it could
:32:41. > :32:46.between -- could be between one and 3000. It yesterday what the minister
:32:47. > :32:50.said was it is peppered with too many pharmacies. There might be
:32:51. > :32:55.34-macro pharmacies within a few hundred yards of each other but that
:32:56. > :32:58.community might have some very difficult health problems and
:32:59. > :33:02.deprivation as well. It seems to me that has to be a plan if we are
:33:03. > :33:08.going to talk about running down the local pharmacies. You don't want to
:33:09. > :33:13.see any pharmacies closed? I wouldn't say that and it is an
:33:14. > :33:16.all-party group that wheelchair. We believe this change does come a long
:33:17. > :33:22.it should be changed that is accepted for the good of the
:33:23. > :33:26.community. It sounds like a false economy. Previous governments have
:33:27. > :33:29.long held the pharmacy are somewhere for local people to go so they don't
:33:30. > :33:34.have to visit their GP and clog up the services they are so surely we
:33:35. > :33:40.should be putting more money into pharmacies not less? No one wants to
:33:41. > :33:45.jump to conclusions that there is no savings but I represent a very rural
:33:46. > :33:51.constituency and I would be very troubled if some communities were
:33:52. > :33:54.left completely unserved and people to be requiring a nonexistent local
:33:55. > :34:00.bus service to travel for long distances to go to pharmacy. Some
:34:01. > :34:05.people don't know this but they can advised people on minor ailments so
:34:06. > :34:13.you can keep people out of the GP 's surgery rather than going to A
:34:14. > :34:18.They are not rushing into it. There was a lot of concern expressed on
:34:19. > :34:23.the Conservative benches as well. I'm sure it will be looked at
:34:24. > :34:32.carefully. Let's come back to the issue of savings and money. As you
:34:33. > :34:35.know, the NHS is being asked to make ?22 billion worth of efficiency
:34:36. > :34:37.savings by the end of this Parliament, so surely pharmacies
:34:38. > :34:48.will have to take some of that on board? The chief negotiating body
:34:49. > :34:51.offered, the SNC, the pharmaceutical negotiating committee, they looked
:34:52. > :34:56.that this issue and they have been looking at it for a long time. This
:34:57. > :34:59.was announced in December last year. They said they could make savings
:35:00. > :35:03.but all the savings would not this is thoroughly be made in the
:35:04. > :35:07.pharmacy budget. Their view is that is being turned down because of
:35:08. > :35:12.that. It seems to me there is a need for more pharmacies. We are looking
:35:13. > :35:15.now at people with long-term conditions, managing their medicines
:35:16. > :35:21.and things like that. This is a area is where we should be looking. 70%
:35:22. > :35:22.of NHS expenditure is on people with long-term conditions. That is what
:35:23. > :35:38.we should be attacking. We did to somebody from the
:35:39. > :35:40.Department of Health and they won was available. No doubt they will
:35:41. > :35:42.respond to further following the discussion in the House of Commons.
:35:43. > :35:46.If there were savings made, couldn't they make savings without actually
:35:47. > :35:50.closing? There is a potential they could do that. I guess pharmacies
:35:51. > :35:55.will favour have to cut hours and things like that. We have some 100
:35:56. > :35:59.hour pharmacies which are contracted to open for 100 hours per week. This
:36:00. > :36:04.is problematic unless there is a plan somewhere which will protect
:36:05. > :36:08.the interests of the communities and patience. I'm not sure there is. The
:36:09. > :36:14.SNC give the impression they don't think there is. What would be the
:36:15. > :36:20.impact if one of the pharmacies in part of your constituency closed? It
:36:21. > :36:24.all depends on whether there is another pharmacy which is equally
:36:25. > :36:29.accessible. If there is it might be something that is accessible and it
:36:30. > :36:34.is important that the NHS makes savings in the sort of non-care and
:36:35. > :36:39.bits budget. When you look at the scale of the budget... You have to
:36:40. > :36:44.look for savings everywhere. But what would not be acceptable is this
:36:45. > :36:48.whole communities were left unserved and that is one of the things which
:36:49. > :36:52.is worrying a lot of people. Would they look at where there are areas
:36:53. > :36:56.where there are perhaps clusters of pharmacies, then you could perhaps
:36:57. > :37:01.close one or two. I am not suggesting they do but they should
:37:02. > :37:08.look at that proposal not getting rid of one. It was mentioned that
:37:09. > :37:12.they could merge as well but my understanding is the rules about
:37:13. > :37:16.merging have not gone through Parliament. There is an impact
:37:17. > :37:20.assessment going to be made. It is being made now we're seeing, but
:37:21. > :37:23.they will publish that when they publish the results of where the
:37:24. > :37:29.savings are going to take place. That might be the cart before the
:37:30. > :37:33.horse. I would like to see an impact assessment, how could we mitigate
:37:34. > :37:37.this on behalf of patience and pharmacies. If some small pharmacies
:37:38. > :37:42.have to merge then I am sure the regulations will be in place before
:37:43. > :37:45.that goes ahead. At this stage it is out of car. Come back and tell us
:37:46. > :37:49.when you get a response. Thank you. Now our guest of the day here had
:37:50. > :37:52.a busy summer during his party's You may remember it ended up
:37:53. > :37:56.with all the contenders other than Theresa May deciding
:37:57. > :37:57.to pull out. Nick initially backed
:37:58. > :38:00.Boris Johnson's bid for the top job, but then switched and became
:38:01. > :38:02.Michael Gove's campaign manager. You may also remember that
:38:03. > :38:05.Mr Gove pulled the rug from underneath Mr Johnson
:38:06. > :38:07.by dramatically announcing that he, not Boris, was up to the job
:38:08. > :38:21.of being party leader Let's just remind you of what Mr
:38:22. > :38:24.Gove had to say in those heady days back in June.
:38:25. > :38:26.I have to say I never thought I'd be in this position.
:38:27. > :38:30.Indeed, I did almost everything I could not to be a candidate
:38:31. > :38:40.I was so very reluctant because I know my limitations.
:38:41. > :38:46.Whatever charisma is, I then have it. Whatever Glamour may be, I do
:38:47. > :38:53.think anyone could associate me with it.
:38:54. > :39:00.Well, Michael Gove being very self-deprecating. Did you persuade
:39:01. > :39:04.Michael Gove to stand? No, I did try to before and that is well
:39:05. > :39:08.advertised. There were a lot of people who tried to persuade him to
:39:09. > :39:12.stand, but he did have deep reluctance and so ultimately, things
:39:13. > :39:17.followed a different course. It would have been much better if we
:39:18. > :39:21.had been successful, but it is all water under the bridge now and we
:39:22. > :39:25.have got on with it, and we have a great new Prime Minister and Foreign
:39:26. > :39:30.Secretary say Michael and I are supporting her. I will not let you
:39:31. > :39:33.off that easily, it was not that long ago. What was the thought
:39:34. > :39:39.process is going through yours and Michael Gove's minds? You are old
:39:40. > :39:44.friends. What made him do it? I'm sorry, I am not going to go into all
:39:45. > :39:49.that detail. It is not the basis on which you asked me to come onto this
:39:50. > :39:55.show and I am not willing to discuss it. It was a mistake them? It was a
:39:56. > :40:02.mistake for Michael not to run in the first place? He accept that and
:40:03. > :40:06.I will always regret it. The reality is that unlike other parties we have
:40:07. > :40:09.been discussing today, the Conservative Party gave the country
:40:10. > :40:14.a new Prime Minister with all of the qualifications to do the job within
:40:15. > :40:19.a matter of weeks, and that has been profoundly good. I accept that, but
:40:20. > :40:23.at the time it was a very turbulent time indeed. Even Michael Gove said
:40:24. > :40:29.the move sent him crashing into a brick wall. Do you agree with him?
:40:30. > :40:41.We didn't have much time, people were very tired and people were
:40:42. > :40:44.quite caught up in the aftermath of the referendum, the resignation of
:40:45. > :40:46.the Prime Minister, so it was a fraught time. The decisions were
:40:47. > :40:49.made for the reasons they were made. Ultimately, it did not work out, and
:40:50. > :40:52.now we are all getting on with the situation we have which is
:40:53. > :40:55.profoundly good to the country. Do you regret sending that message to
:40:56. > :41:02.your fellow MPs urging them to thwart Andrea Ledson? No, but you
:41:03. > :41:08.did not ask me on the show to talk about this. You knew we would ask
:41:09. > :41:13.about it. You asked me to talk about Brexit. I am not happy to disinter
:41:14. > :41:18.the leadership election which is long past. But this was about you.
:41:19. > :41:23.Whatever reasons we got you on the programme, we do want to discuss
:41:24. > :41:27.what happened in that very difficult time, and on that, was it because
:41:28. > :41:31.you were right in the middle of what was such a heady time, in those few
:41:32. > :41:36.weeks, that you wrote that and didn't realise the impact it would
:41:37. > :41:42.have, at least on party grassroots? If you want me to stay on the
:41:43. > :41:48.programme... I do! We will have to move on. OK. Have you and Michael
:41:49. > :41:54.Gove discussed where the Tory party is now and where it is going?
:41:55. > :41:59.Absolutely. He is my closest friend in life as impolitic, and both of us
:42:00. > :42:04.share genuine MPs he asked them for the direction that Theresa May is
:42:05. > :42:08.taking the government. I thought her party conference speech was super.
:42:09. > :42:13.It moved us into a territory where we are focusing on those people for
:42:14. > :42:18.whom the British economy, and British society has not been working
:42:19. > :42:24.for in some cases decades, and that is hugely welcome and her
:42:25. > :42:27.willingness to intervene assertively in the economy, in other spheres of
:42:28. > :42:31.life, to ensure that the country delivers for people who have been
:42:32. > :42:35.failed, is something that Michael spoke about in his speech when he
:42:36. > :42:41.was launching his leadership bid. It is what motivates me and him for
:42:42. > :42:46.decades, arguing for reform in the Conservative Party, so we are both
:42:47. > :42:53.entirely enthusiastic and supportive of the government's direction. Fine,
:42:54. > :42:57.but you were on the Remain side as was Theresa May. Do you accept there
:42:58. > :43:02.is a new division for those who campaigned for Leave and want a hard
:43:03. > :43:07.Brexit, coming out of the single market, and remain as who want to
:43:08. > :43:10.stay in the single market? There are some people who are very troubled by
:43:11. > :43:15.the idea of leaving the single market? Most of them and the most
:43:16. > :43:22.vocal of them are in the opposition parties. But they are in the Tory
:43:23. > :43:27.party as well. I think the difficulty they face is that both
:43:28. > :43:35.sides of the debate, in the referendum campaign, discussed the
:43:36. > :43:40.vote for the single market and both David Cameron and others and myself
:43:41. > :43:44.included said it would be a disaster to leave the single market which
:43:45. > :43:47.would be marred by a Leave vote, and equally the Leave campaign, which
:43:48. > :43:52.was quite controversial at the time, made it clear that we were not
:43:53. > :43:56.proposing where we move into a position like Norway's where we were
:43:57. > :44:00.in the economic area, they were proposing to leave the single
:44:01. > :44:05.market. It is hard for people who have lost the referendum vote, and I
:44:06. > :44:08.am one of them, it is hard to say it is an open question about whether we
:44:09. > :44:14.should leave the single market. But you talked about attempts to block
:44:15. > :44:18.Brexit as nauseating and you mentioned Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg
:44:19. > :44:23.from the opposition parties, do you think the Chancellor Philip Hammond
:44:24. > :44:27.is the same? I think what turns my stomach is when two individuals who
:44:28. > :44:31.have practically destroyed their political parties, in one case
:44:32. > :44:38.delivering it into the hands of Jeremy Corbyn and his peculiarly
:44:39. > :44:40.unattractive followers, and in the other case, decimating, literally
:44:41. > :44:48.decimating their numbers in the House of Commons, it was them I
:44:49. > :44:53.found a bit stomach churning. But he is also accused of being a block on
:44:54. > :44:59.Brexit and wanting curbs on migration Esmat he may be a lot of
:45:00. > :45:02.things without them being true. Philip Hammond is a superb
:45:03. > :45:06.Chancellor who quite rightly have made the point in his conference
:45:07. > :45:11.speech that nobody voted to become poorer. His job as Chancellor is to
:45:12. > :45:14.ensure that the arrangements that we have, that takeover from single
:45:15. > :45:18.market membership, the free trade agreements that we reach our ones
:45:19. > :45:30.that are insured. These are Tory MPs. Some feel fill
:45:31. > :45:35.limb Hammond is putting the brakes on or trying to. The Prime
:45:36. > :45:39.Minister's spokesman had to say they have full confidence in... You love
:45:40. > :45:44.to stir it up... I don't think it's up stirring it up. Philip ham manned
:45:45. > :45:47.has not said anywhere I have seen that it's somehow essential we
:45:48. > :45:51.remain in the single market. What he has said and I entirely agree with
:45:52. > :45:55.him, is that we must reach a set of agreements that ensure that people
:45:56. > :45:59.are not worse off, that we must have a very, very full set of free trade
:46:00. > :46:03.agreements covering, not just goods, but services and including the city.
:46:04. > :46:06.He's absolutely right on that. I happen to know that the Prime
:46:07. > :46:09.Minister agrees with him on that. And that's what the Government will
:46:10. > :46:12.be seeking to achieve. All right, we will leave it there.
:46:13. > :46:14.Now, are our diplomats equipped for the modern world?
:46:15. > :46:18.Tom Fletcher was our man in Beirut and Britain's youngest
:46:19. > :46:22.He argues that the digital revolution can transform
:46:23. > :46:24.the diplomatic service and the way they promote
:46:25. > :46:40.My name is Tom Fletcher and I am a recovering Ambassador,
:46:41. > :46:44.an ex-Excellency and although I no longer work for the Foreign Office,
:46:45. > :46:47.I care deeply about diplomacy and I am worried that people
:46:48. > :46:55.And when I say diplomacy I don't mean the maps and chaps,
:46:56. > :46:59.the stereotypes, the summits and soundbites and the protocol
:47:00. > :47:07.I don't even mean the Ferrero Rocher.
:47:08. > :47:10.I mean the stripped back, raw diplomacy that goes all the way
:47:11. > :47:14.back to the first caveman who persuaded his fellow
:47:15. > :47:18.Neanderthals to stop clubbing him and go out and hunt together.
:47:19. > :47:20.We live in an age of massive technological change,
:47:21. > :47:23.of people on the move, of distrust of authority.
:47:24. > :47:28.Trump, Brexit, the rise of extremism, these are all
:47:29. > :47:31.symptoms of the uncertainty that these trends create.
:47:32. > :47:34.In previous times of massive technological change,
:47:35. > :47:37.the industrial revolution, the arrival of the printing press,
:47:38. > :47:39.the nations that lost were those that turned inwards.
:47:40. > :47:42.The nations that won were those that turned outwards
:47:43. > :47:44.to find new partners, new ideas, new markets.
:47:45. > :47:52.In the 20th century, we knew where the dividing line was.
:47:53. > :47:56.In the 21st, it's not between East and West, between North and South,
:47:57. > :48:00.between rich and poor, between Christianity and Islam.
:48:01. > :48:04.It is between those who believe in co-existence and those
:48:05. > :48:16.None of these great challenges will be solved by building bigger walls.
:48:17. > :48:22.All around the world people are connecting in new ways,
:48:23. > :48:24.through Facebook, through Twitter, through Instagram, with each other
:48:25. > :48:31.Diplomacy is going to have to evolve.
:48:32. > :48:35.Diplomacy is going to have to get digital, to use its extraordinary
:48:36. > :48:44.smartphone superpower to reach out, to network, to connect and to take
:48:45. > :48:47.But while Ministries like this are working hard
:48:48. > :48:50.to change and to evolve, they can not win this argument
:48:51. > :48:54.What we now need is for everyone to think like citizen diplomats,
:48:55. > :48:58.working hard offline and online to get their voices
:48:59. > :49:01.heard in the corridors of power and beyond.
:49:02. > :49:10.Diplomacy is now much too important to be left to diplomats.
:49:11. > :49:14.So I say over to you, your Excellencies.
:49:15. > :49:20.And Tom Fletcher joins us in the studio now.
:49:21. > :49:26.You present a very optimistic vision, your vision in your soapbox
:49:27. > :49:30.about diplomacy. But if you look at recent events, Ukraine, Syria, the
:49:31. > :49:35.refugee crisis, hasn't diplomacy all but failed? Absolutely and I was
:49:36. > :49:38.part of that failure on Syria specifically as ambassador in
:49:39. > :49:43.Beirut. For me those are better reasons, stronger reasons for us to
:49:44. > :49:48.improve what we are doing and I don't think - if diplomacy didn't
:49:49. > :49:55.exist we would have to invent it. We do need people out there trying to
:49:56. > :49:58.provide the lubricant in the system as countries interact. Does that
:49:59. > :50:02.soft power still have an impact in terms of relations and world events?
:50:03. > :50:06.Absolutely. I was just this morning with a bunch of the creative
:50:07. > :50:09.industries federation. It's our fasters growing sector. In an
:50:10. > :50:17.Embassy you realise how much power that gives you. I used to often go
:50:18. > :50:22.to universities and people would talk about British foreign policy
:50:23. > :50:28.but wearing Premiership kits. That great leveller. Really a West Ham.
:50:29. > :50:33.Let's not get into teams we support. How would this work? We see them
:50:34. > :50:38.around us every day, many of our professions, there are citizen
:50:39. > :50:41.diplomats everywhere. For me it's anyone working for co-existence and
:50:42. > :50:45.against the intolerance, this growing intolerance we see around
:50:46. > :50:49.us. Take, for example, citizens in Munich, the companies now providing
:50:50. > :50:54.places for Syrian refugees, that for me is a frontline of real diplomacy
:50:55. > :50:59.now. In that sense, do you think it is the end really because we talked
:51:00. > :51:04.earlier about British military intervention, that really in the
:51:05. > :51:09.world we are in and we look at IS, perhaps look at some of the cyber
:51:10. > :51:13.espionage, is it all about soft power? No, you also need the hard
:51:14. > :51:17.power and we seeing that in Syria, if you don't have a credible threat
:51:18. > :51:21.it's harder to get your way when you are playing poker with Putin, you
:51:22. > :51:25.still need that hard power element but increasingly to succeed in the
:51:26. > :51:29.21st century the soft power will need to be a larger component than
:51:30. > :51:32.the past. How did you react when you heard Boris Johnson telling
:51:33. > :51:34.parliament he would like to see demonstrations outside the Russian
:51:35. > :51:39.Embassy, this is over their actions in Syria? Well, I think that's one
:51:40. > :51:43.element really and of the overall approach to Russia and to Syria. I
:51:44. > :51:48.think there is a lot you can do through mobilising the public and I
:51:49. > :51:51.tried to do that in Lebanon, connecting with different people in
:51:52. > :51:55.society to take on big arguments. I have some of my best arguments
:51:56. > :51:59.online with the Russian Embassy in the UK. The sectarian issues must be
:52:00. > :52:04.difficult to deal with from your perspective? Absolutely and you are
:52:05. > :52:07.conscious as an ambassador or diplomat tweeting if you get it
:52:08. > :52:11.slightly wrong you could start world war three, you have to be very
:52:12. > :52:16.careful. There are big risks. But the biggest risk is not on there at
:52:17. > :52:19.all. Of course Theresa May says she's not giving a running
:52:20. > :52:24.commentary on Brexit. What did you think of Boris Johnson's comments?
:52:25. > :52:28.One of the former diplomats was upset, said it would endanger staff
:52:29. > :52:35.who are abroad in some of these embassies and in a way it wasn't the
:52:36. > :52:40.most beligerrent of comments, Duke it was dangerous The point -- Do you
:52:41. > :52:43.think it was dangerous The point was Stop The War only wants to stop wars
:52:44. > :52:48.when either the United States or Britain is involved and has
:52:49. > :52:52.absolutely nothing to say about wars prosecuted by Russia in Ukraine or
:52:53. > :52:55.by Russia and allies... But he is the Foreign Secretary. He holds more
:52:56. > :52:59.weight in that sense. I understand that but that was his main point. I
:53:00. > :53:05.think that the general argument is is a strong one and in a sense if
:53:06. > :53:10.you wanted to think of the best example of your citizen diplomats,
:53:11. > :53:14.it would be the Olympic medallists who we saw in Manchester. What they
:53:15. > :53:18.have done for Britain's standing in the world, not just our own sense of
:53:19. > :53:22.it, but other countries' sense of it. They think of us differently now
:53:23. > :53:27.they see that actually we are the third biggest medal winner in the
:53:28. > :53:32.world. You have been in Lebanon and clearly that has been a good example
:53:33. > :53:37.of a sort of British export, if you like, our Olympians, what's the view
:53:38. > :53:39.of Britain there now? I think people see us as magnetic and I think
:53:40. > :53:42.that's a quality that we should be proud of. We shouldn't be chasing
:53:43. > :53:47.students away, we should be chasing after students to come here. People
:53:48. > :53:51.are fascinated by the Royal Family. They love the Premiership as I
:53:52. > :53:58.mentioned, our creative industries, from Beckham to the Beatles to Adele
:53:59. > :54:02.to bond. All of that, it has a real talismanic power and we should be
:54:03. > :54:06.prouder of that. They're curious, they enjoy London, they see us as a
:54:07. > :54:11.dynamic trading outward looking nation. The biggest threat to us at
:54:12. > :54:16.the moment is we turn our back on that key part of our DNA as a
:54:17. > :54:31.country and turn inwards. History tells us that's when you lose. Tom
:54:32. > :54:34.famous as the setting for the hugely successful romantic
:54:35. > :54:37.But for Westminster-watchers like us, this affluent part
:54:38. > :54:40.of the city also gave its name to a very successful political
:54:41. > :54:42.clique, which at one point ruled the Conservative
:54:43. > :54:46.But with the departure of David Cameron as Prime Minister
:54:47. > :54:49.and the arrival of Theresa May, the so-called Notting Hill set isn't
:54:50. > :54:53.# It's amazing how you can speak right to my heart.
:54:54. > :54:55.I won't be back until 9.00pm tonight.
:54:56. > :55:04.# Without saying a word you can light up the dark.
:55:05. > :55:20.# What I hear when you don't say a thing.
:55:21. > :55:25.# The smile on your face let's me know that you need me.
:55:26. > :55:33.# There's a truth in your eyes saying you'll never leave me.
:55:34. > :55:40.# The touch of your hand says you'll catch me wherever I fall...
:55:41. > :55:43.We're joined by the Evening Standard's Joy Lo Dico who's written
:55:44. > :55:46.in today's paper about the death of the Notting Hill Set.
:55:47. > :55:49.And, by good fortune, our guest of the day, Nick Boles,
:55:50. > :56:03.A bit player! No, don't demote yourself. Come on, you were part of
:56:04. > :56:07.that. How are relations since the EU referendum? In my own case very good
:56:08. > :56:11.with everyone. Obviously it has caused strain on relationships, not
:56:12. > :56:15.just within that group, but in families and in friendship groups.
:56:16. > :56:18.It's been an extraordinary issue in our times. I think for the first
:56:19. > :56:23.time in my life I understand what people say about the Spanish civil
:56:24. > :56:26.war, the way it actually separated whole communities and families and
:56:27. > :56:29.this has come close to that. I hope that as we now move away from it
:56:30. > :56:34.people can come back together. Right. What do you think, how do you
:56:35. > :56:38.see tensions at the moment in what is the Notting Hill set? Having
:56:39. > :56:43.spoken to a number of people about it, it's got to a level where there
:56:44. > :56:53.are confrontations going on in the street... Between? I think it would
:56:54. > :56:58.be impoll tick to say at this point in time. There are dinner parties in
:56:59. > :57:02.the area looking at guest lists carefully thinking, should I invite
:57:03. > :57:10.this section or not invite that section? David Cameron still has a
:57:11. > :57:16.court there as does George Osborne. So, there are also Brexiteers there.
:57:17. > :57:20.There was an article in The Times at the weekend that said it was agony
:57:21. > :57:24.at the moment socially with various groups, bearing in mind what Nick
:57:25. > :57:32.said that's going to happen post such a divisive contest as the
:57:33. > :57:35.referendum. Michael Gove, not having double crossed anybody, has become
:57:36. > :57:39.this idea of the outsider who wants something different and Notting Hill
:57:40. > :57:44.is built largely on this idea of kind of open, multicultural, you
:57:45. > :57:47.know, outward looking sort of media and literary society with
:57:48. > :57:51.politicians added in. The rest of the country has rejected it and
:57:52. > :57:55.there is Michael Gove wandering around as what was leader of that
:57:56. > :57:57.movement. There is even talk and suggestions that you have made today
:57:58. > :58:02.he might be moving out of the area. That's what a couple of the locals
:58:03. > :58:05.have been saying. I don't know whether that's wishful thinking or
:58:06. > :58:09.not. It certainly is a little awkward. They were Godparents to
:58:10. > :58:12.each other's children, they were doing school runs together, it's
:58:13. > :58:17.impossible to go through Notting Hill without bumping into somebody
:58:18. > :58:20.you know in these classes. Most sort of politicians, Prime Ministers,
:58:21. > :58:31.have sets around them. Has Theresa May got a set? Well, I was trying to
:58:32. > :58:33.think whether she and Amal Clooney and Heston Blumenthal, that would be
:58:34. > :58:37.a marvellous dinner party to report on, I don't think that's going to
:58:38. > :58:39.happen and I feel she doesn't have a set other than her local
:58:40. > :58:44.Conservative Party association. Probably by design. Part of the
:58:45. > :58:48.reason a number of people lost their jobs was an objection to that W also
:58:49. > :58:53.11 insiderness. I have to say goodbye to our set here. Thank you
:58:54. > :58:58.to Nick Not too offended I hope by the end of the programme.
:58:59. > :59:02.The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.