:01:09. > :01:35.live to its promise to take child refugees? First of Wales, Scotland
:01:36. > :01:39.and Northern Ireland are meeting at Downing Street to make their Brexit
:01:40. > :01:44.case but can different parts of the UK really expect different deals? It
:01:45. > :01:49.is going to desecrate the countryside, argue campaigners
:01:50. > :01:51.against fracking. Why has a leading green campaigner come out in favour?
:01:52. > :01:56.What makes a good political insult? We will countdown the top five. The
:01:57. > :01:59.House has noticed the Prime Minister's transformation from
:02:00. > :02:03.Stalin to Mr Bean. It was a good one. With us for the whole
:02:04. > :02:05.programme, prominent Conservative remain campaigner, Nick Herbert. He
:02:06. > :02:07.described three senior campaigners as three blind mice. And Gisela
:02:08. > :02:12.Stuart, who spent time with those blind mice during the campaign.
:02:13. > :02:14.First of all, French authorities have begun the process of clearing
:02:15. > :02:23.the giant migrant camp in Calais. Coaches have been chartered to take
:02:24. > :02:26.migrants to reception centres across France where they will be
:02:27. > :02:28.invited to apply for asylum, or deported to their
:02:29. > :02:30.country of origin. A few minutes ago I spoke
:02:31. > :02:37.to our correspondent I asked her how it has been going.
:02:38. > :02:48.So far it has been running very smoothly. Migrants have come here
:02:49. > :02:51.and formed orderly queues. They were asked for the names, nationalities,
:02:52. > :02:57.and ages. They've been boarding buses quite swiftly. So far this
:02:58. > :03:02.morning we are told by the authorities that 17 buses have left,
:03:03. > :03:07.carrying on them 700 migrants. They have been told there will not be
:03:08. > :03:11.enough buses for everyone to get on today. Some people will come back
:03:12. > :03:17.here and the process will continue tomorrow. Many of the migrants I've
:03:18. > :03:21.spoken to have said they are happy to leave. Some of them have been
:03:22. > :03:26.here for many months. I was speaking to one young man who says he's been
:03:27. > :03:30.here for eight months, it is called, dirty, life is difficult and he was
:03:31. > :03:33.pleased to be moving somewhere he will be provided with proper
:03:34. > :03:39.accommodation and food. Others say they will not leave, they have one
:03:40. > :03:47.very clear: that is to start a new life in the UK. Some of those people
:03:48. > :03:57.say that they will not move and this is moving further away from their
:03:58. > :04:01.new life. They are clearing people who still want to make it to the UK.
:04:02. > :04:06.What are the French authorities saying about that? The French
:04:07. > :04:11.verities are being very clear that this is an eviction, the will be
:04:12. > :04:15.closed and dismantled. The charities working very closely with migrants
:04:16. > :04:19.in that camp, their advice is also very clear, to follow the
:04:20. > :04:26.instructions of the French authorities. That is the safest and
:04:27. > :04:30.best route. The charities working with those people say whilst the
:04:31. > :04:34.camp is full it is easier for them to say, we are going to stay here,
:04:35. > :04:38.but they hope as people move on, over the days to come, they will
:04:39. > :04:45.change their minds, and get on the buses that have been provided for
:04:46. > :04:51.them. The people living here, some of them more than a year, their
:04:52. > :05:01.great worry is even if the camp is closed the people will need to still
:05:02. > :05:08.be somewhere. Gisela Stuart. Let's pick up on that final point by
:05:09. > :05:16.Sophie Long. Is this going to solve a problem, dispersing the migrants
:05:17. > :05:21.across France, or will we see lots of new jungles emerging? We must
:05:22. > :05:24.make sure this does not happen. One of the difficulties, because of free
:05:25. > :05:32.travel on mainland Europe, once you have pressure, people can travel
:05:33. > :05:36.wherever they want to. How do you prevent this happening? At some
:05:37. > :05:40.stage, they were talking about reintroducing border controls.
:05:41. > :05:49.You've got to deal with the pressure on the outside. The deal with Turkey
:05:50. > :05:58.is not working properly. You've got to do the triple thing, between the
:05:59. > :06:07.people traders, deal with the displacement, then you deal with the
:06:08. > :06:11.pull factor. On top of that I hope Britain lives up to its promise in
:06:12. > :06:15.dealing with some of the unaccompanied children. Let's come
:06:16. > :06:27.to that. You nod your head. There is a fear, one of the Lord's made a big
:06:28. > :06:32.play to persuade them to take the children. There is a worry that not
:06:33. > :06:37.all those children have come across. Do you think they are going to be
:06:38. > :06:45.dispersed across France before they get here? I hope not. Clearly, it is
:06:46. > :06:49.going very slowly. It is a complicated process. I became aware
:06:50. > :06:53.of that when looking at how my local authority was dealing with it. All
:06:54. > :07:01.the local processes they need to put in place. It is not straightforward.
:07:02. > :07:05.Even if they've got family? It is still not straightforward. They are
:07:06. > :07:09.processed by the council then given to those they have a connection
:07:10. > :07:16.with. There is a necessary amount of bureaucracy around it. We need to
:07:17. > :07:24.speed up but we also need confidence in the process. It would be damaging
:07:25. > :07:28.in that if we take people who are not eligible or there were concerns
:07:29. > :07:34.about whether they are the right age or not. You agree with your
:07:35. > :07:40.colleagues. Would you like to see further checks? Dental checks? I
:07:41. > :07:45.certainly would not want to see that, I thought that was an
:07:46. > :07:51.appalling proposition. It has been ruled out. There needs to be proper
:07:52. > :08:02.checks. We have taken over 5000 Syrian refugees, adults, in the last
:08:03. > :08:14.few years. There is a commitment to take 20,000 from the new campus. We
:08:15. > :08:17.are doing our bit. Would you like to see further checks to verify the
:08:18. > :08:26.ages of the unaccompanied minors claiming asylum or joining families?
:08:27. > :08:33.DH check needs to be one of those. Would you like to see further checks
:08:34. > :08:41.or, like Nick Herbert, did not want to see dental checks. If anybody
:08:42. > :08:44.convinces me that they are better than what we've got at the moment
:08:45. > :08:50.then I'm open to the suggestion but I did not think they were the answer
:08:51. > :08:54.to the problem. What about the migrants who just want to come to
:08:55. > :08:58.the UK, going to try and stay, whether they are able to, we will
:08:59. > :09:03.need to see. What about those people? They are not going to give
:09:04. > :09:06.up. Some of them are not but others are being offered proper
:09:07. > :09:12.accommodation and they are being taken through the asylum process. I
:09:13. > :09:20.think there are issues, why have they got to this point if they are
:09:21. > :09:24.asylum seekers? When they've got as far as France, the rules are they
:09:25. > :09:31.offered it in the first country they arrive at. There is a problem with
:09:32. > :09:36.Europe and that has to be solved with the agreement made with Turkey
:09:37. > :09:44.and Europe but I think we agree these are not easy problems, it is
:09:45. > :09:48.generally wrong to make political capital out of them. It is time for
:09:49. > :09:49.the daily quiz. The question for today
:09:50. > :09:52.is who was Ed Balls advised not to try and emulate
:09:53. > :09:54.on Strictly Come Dancing this weekend after he struggled
:09:55. > :09:56.to lift his partner Katya Jones. At the end of the show Nick
:09:57. > :10:09.and Gisela will give Maybe you could demonstrate the left
:10:10. > :10:18.for us. Now, what's the collective term
:10:19. > :10:20.for First Ministers? Because three of them
:10:21. > :10:26.and a deputy first minister went into Downing Street about an hour
:10:27. > :10:37.ago to talk Brexit. She needs to keep all the parts of
:10:38. > :10:41.the United Kingdom together. The Prime Minister is hosting
:10:42. > :10:44.a special joint ministerial committee in Number Ten involving
:10:45. > :10:46.the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales and the First
:10:47. > :10:49.and Deputy First Ministers Both Scotland and Northern Ireland
:10:50. > :10:52.voted to stay in the European Union, All three First Ministers
:10:53. > :10:56.want their nations to continue to participate in the single market
:10:57. > :10:59.and both Nicola Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones have
:11:00. > :11:02.said their Assemblies should be able to vote to approve the government's
:11:03. > :11:06.negotiating strategy. Nicola Sturgeon has also called
:11:07. > :11:10.for Holyrood to have special arrangement with the rest of the EU
:11:11. > :11:13.that could see Scotland remaining within the single market
:11:14. > :11:18.and keeping free movement. Theresa May has rejected these
:11:19. > :11:21.demands but has instead offered a direct hotline
:11:22. > :11:24.for the three leaders to Brexit Secretary David Davies
:11:25. > :11:35.so they can report any concerns, as well as a forum chaired
:11:36. > :11:37.by Mr Davis where representatives from the nations can
:11:38. > :11:39.air their concerns before the negotiations to leave
:11:40. > :11:42.the EU begin next year. And we're joined now by the SNP's
:11:43. > :11:50.Europe spokesman, Stephen Gethins. Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:11:51. > :11:56.What's this got to do with Nicola Sturgeon? Isn't this something to do
:11:57. > :12:02.with the Westminster Government? There is barely any area of devolved
:12:03. > :12:08.competence that is not impacted by our future relations with the
:12:09. > :12:12.European Union. It is right that the First Ministers come together and
:12:13. > :12:18.discuss this. I notice the First Minister backed up a letter written
:12:19. > :12:24.by the Labour First Minister from Wales calling for an agreed position
:12:25. > :12:28.and a vote in the four parliaments. What do you say to these demands?
:12:29. > :12:33.These seem to be fairly typical demands. They voted to stay within
:12:34. > :12:37.the European Union. What is wrong with these demands? The very thing
:12:38. > :12:40.what is happening at the moment is those who did not like the outcome
:12:41. > :12:43.of the referendum are trying to rerun the referendum under a
:12:44. > :12:49.different heading. Let me just finish this. Certain myths are being
:12:50. > :12:52.developed. That this was not the United Kingdom referendum. It was
:12:53. > :12:57.the United Kingdom referendum and that binds the entire United
:12:58. > :13:02.Kingdom. Second, demands about remaining in the single market. If
:13:03. > :13:11.you negotiate to leave and it means we still have free movement of
:13:12. > :13:15.Labour, the supremacy of EU law, the WTO, then you have not left. During
:13:16. > :13:22.the campaign it was made absolutely clear that leaving meant you left
:13:23. > :13:26.the single market. David Cameron and George Osborne said if you vote to
:13:27. > :13:33.leave you have left the single market. This is quite extraordinary.
:13:34. > :13:37.If I can respond... This is quite extraordinary. In the Conservative
:13:38. > :13:43.Party manifesto, and I think we should try to ferment what it says,
:13:44. > :13:49.it says, yes, to the single market. I am not a conservative. It is
:13:50. > :13:55.difficult to make the difference. That was before the referendum. It
:13:56. > :14:00.was the part of the manifesto that said we should have a referendum.
:14:01. > :14:03.You can maintain part of the single market, you can have different
:14:04. > :14:09.situations for different parts of the UK. Nobody is denying it was a
:14:10. > :14:13.UK referendum, but Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain. Having
:14:14. > :14:23.voted overwhelmingly to remain, I think the Prime Minister has a
:14:24. > :14:28.responsibility to get to a position that agrees that. Let's take them
:14:29. > :14:30.one by one. You say you could get an agreement but you want Scotland to
:14:31. > :14:36.remain a member of the single market. Theresa May has said that is
:14:37. > :14:41.not going to happen. She hasn't. She doesn't want the country to be under
:14:42. > :14:45.the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and she wants to
:14:46. > :14:50.curb freedom of movement. She is saying it would be nigh to
:14:51. > :14:54.impossible to remain a member of the single market. What makes you think
:14:55. > :15:00.Scotland could have a different arrangement? To pick up on this.
:15:01. > :15:03.Believe campaign did not campaign on whether to leave the single market,
:15:04. > :15:11.they campaigned on a blank piece of paper in an act of utterly gross
:15:12. > :15:15.irresponsibility. The First Minister is rightly standing up for Scottish
:15:16. > :15:18.business. Something that would be good for business throughout the
:15:19. > :15:23.United Kingdom. Our universities, food Drink, energy sector, rely so
:15:24. > :15:29.heavily on freedom of movement. Let's take the issue of the single
:15:30. > :15:32.market. It is not true. Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, even remain
:15:33. > :15:39.campaigners said that. Let's listen to what some of them said.
:15:40. > :15:46.The British public would be voting to leave, we would leave the EU and
:15:47. > :15:53.the single market. Should we come out the single market? That would be
:15:54. > :15:57.the case. Should we be inside the single market? No, we should be
:15:58. > :16:01.outside the single market. I said after Brexit, Michael Gove said Will
:16:02. > :16:08.we be inside the single market and he said no. He is right. We would be
:16:09. > :16:12.out of the single market, that is the reality. We played this clip
:16:13. > :16:16.before, but you can see clearly they did state on both sides of the UK
:16:17. > :16:20.would have to be the single market if they leave the EU. You may
:16:21. > :16:27.disagree with that but you cannot say they did not say it. If that was
:16:28. > :16:31.still the case of the UK Government, I have asked them, everyone has
:16:32. > :16:34.asked them, are we in our out, do we have membership of the single
:16:35. > :16:38.market, they will not answer the question. Michael Gove also told
:16:39. > :16:43.Scotland would get power over immigration. Now we have been told
:16:44. > :16:47.we are not getting that either. Do you think the government is not
:16:48. > :16:51.absolutely sure about leaving the single market? Yes, and it is right
:16:52. > :16:56.they have not fully ruled it out. Although we tend to look at this in
:16:57. > :17:02.a binary way, the terms on which we might still have preferential access
:17:03. > :17:05.to the single market, those are still up for discussion. I think it
:17:06. > :17:12.is in Britain's economic interests, and what businesses are saying, that
:17:13. > :17:16.would be perfect. It would lead you to the view you have a border
:17:17. > :17:21.between the different parts of the UK. That would be problematic. What
:17:22. > :17:25.I want to do is reject what Bisla Stewart said, anyone raising these
:17:26. > :17:33.issues is trying to frustrate the results of the referendum. Aren't
:17:34. > :17:37.they? I was leader of the conservative in campaign, I said we
:17:38. > :17:41.had to respect the results of the referendum. We are going to leave,
:17:42. > :17:46.but the question is on what terms? The majority of the UK public is a
:17:47. > :17:51.hard Brexit would be damaging to our economy and would drive a divide
:17:52. > :17:56.between different parts of the UK as well. What is wrong with the vote,
:17:57. > :18:01.what is the government so frightened of, why not have a vote so that we
:18:02. > :18:06.could have the will of Parliament being honoured, head of the
:18:07. > :18:10.negotiations? Because what precisely are you going to put on the paper?
:18:11. > :18:15.We have had a referendum where people voted to leave. Parliament is
:18:16. > :18:20.implementing that. But the next general election I want to have the
:18:21. > :18:23.position where the United Kingdom voters will have the choice is what
:18:24. > :18:30.immigration policy will be, they will have a choice on who does the
:18:31. > :18:36.trade negotiations. You don't trust people to honour what the people
:18:37. > :18:39.said. Otherwise we had not left. People are saying we should give
:18:40. > :18:47.Parliament a full say in the matter but then so Parliament cannot
:18:48. > :18:52.discuss these issues. Let Stephen Gethin answer because no one can
:18:53. > :18:55.hear you all talk over each other. The league campaign campaigned on a
:18:56. > :18:58.blank page and that was irresponsible. I am pleased the
:18:59. > :19:03.first ministers have come together to try to get a common agreement. It
:19:04. > :19:07.will do everybody the power of good. The First Minister has gone with
:19:08. > :19:15.asking about the implementation and getting an agreed position. I don't
:19:16. > :19:20.know about this hotline, I cannot get any answers out of David Davis
:19:21. > :19:26.in the chamber. It has to be meaningful. It is not meaningful
:19:27. > :19:30.because the demands being made by Stephen Gethin 's and the SNP are
:19:31. > :19:38.not the man is that Theresa May will be able to... Not Arlene Foster. She
:19:39. > :19:41.has said, and Northern Ireland is saying they are not bothered in the
:19:42. > :19:45.way that Nicola Sturgeon and is Carwyn Jones are about membership of
:19:46. > :19:54.the single market. But they are about Freedom of movement. This idea
:19:55. > :19:58.of a hotline, it is symbolic, nothing will happen, they will not
:19:59. > :20:04.get anything from ringing of David Davis? I am sure they will have a
:20:05. > :20:09.very nice conversation. It is pointless. What I think is important
:20:10. > :20:12.the government set out in broad terms, what its ambition is for this
:20:13. > :20:19.Brexit process and that is what we have been unable to drag out of them
:20:20. > :20:23.so far. That is the concern, I suspect in the dissolved reasons but
:20:24. > :20:27.also the devolved nations, but also in the UK Parliament. That is why
:20:28. > :20:31.many of us will be pursuing this issue and I suspect there will be a
:20:32. > :20:37.parliamentary majority for saying the government must set out its
:20:38. > :20:44.broad ambition and that must happen before the article 50 is triggered.
:20:45. > :20:48.Let's come to the demands. Some will say they are unrealistic and you
:20:49. > :20:52.making them in order to justify calling a second independence
:20:53. > :20:57.referendum. I am not sure what is unrealistic. What we have asked for
:20:58. > :21:05.is there should be a vote in the different devolved administrations.
:21:06. > :21:08.We have such a significant impact on the devolved responsibilities, it is
:21:09. > :21:11.right they should have their say. We need to get a common agreed
:21:12. > :21:17.position. Theresa May should be doing that and who knows, she might
:21:18. > :21:23.learn something. You think it is a demand Theresa May should look at,
:21:24. > :21:31.the freedom of movement. This is something demanded in her own
:21:32. > :21:35.backbenchers. She said it is not something people voted for. People
:21:36. > :21:40.didn't vote for anything. They voted to leave the European Union, it was
:21:41. > :21:45.a blank piece of paper and it was irresponsible and why we are having
:21:46. > :21:51.these discussions now. When it comes to the single market, which was, you
:21:52. > :21:57.stop free movement of labour. You have just seen the clips. It wasn't
:21:58. > :22:02.a blank piece of paper. It suits the SNP perfectly well to go on
:22:03. > :22:07.demanding the right to veto. So you don't have to answer about what has
:22:08. > :22:10.happened to the education system in Scotland, what has happened to the
:22:11. > :22:14.education system in Scotland and what has happened to policing in
:22:15. > :22:20.Scotland. Picking a fight our Westminster level distracts from the
:22:21. > :22:23.other things. Just on the idea of an independence referendum, when would
:22:24. > :22:29.you call that if you don't have your demands met? The First Minister is
:22:30. > :22:32.looking at a whole other range of options. For instance, the UK
:22:33. > :22:37.Government is prepared to try and block at a special arrangement for
:22:38. > :22:40.bankers in the financial sector, so why not a special arrangements for
:22:41. > :22:44.Scotland and Northern Ireland. It is something that has been done
:22:45. > :22:49.elsewhere in the European Union. Will that be allowed to happen when
:22:50. > :22:54.they're looking at the problems of Catalan? They are not looking to
:22:55. > :22:59.leave the European Union at the minute. It is about a realistic
:23:00. > :23:03.demand. We are looking for a solution that protects Scottish
:23:04. > :23:07.jobs. I understand that, but that was not my question. When would you
:23:08. > :23:11.call a second referendum because that is what you said you would do
:23:12. > :23:14.if your demands are not met. The First Minister, like her colleagues
:23:15. > :23:20.elsewhere is going with a reasonable set of demands to the Prime Minister
:23:21. > :23:25.today. Let's see if she can get further than we have managed to do
:23:26. > :23:30.in the chamber. Gisela talks about the single market, but we cannot get
:23:31. > :23:33.a straight answer out of the Prime Minister on the single market. Is
:23:34. > :23:37.there a deal he would recognise that benefit Scotland in terms of the
:23:38. > :23:44.single market? Would that be enough for you to say you won't call a
:23:45. > :23:48.second independence reference? If you get a deal that keeps jobs,
:23:49. > :23:53.access to the single market, then you need to consider it. Would it be
:23:54. > :23:57.possible to have some freedom of movement, some relaxation on
:23:58. > :24:02.immigration to Scotland, could you treat a nation like an economic
:24:03. > :24:06.sector like banking, or is it totally unfeasible? I am trying to
:24:07. > :24:18.see how he would implement this. How would you enforce that? Michael Gove
:24:19. > :24:22.talked about regional quotas. I am a Labour politician. Could you control
:24:23. > :24:28.and do this? I don't think it would work. It would work for particular
:24:29. > :24:33.professions, but not geographical regions. It worked in Australia like
:24:34. > :24:36.you talked about in the campaign. Are still for membership of the
:24:37. > :24:42.single market or would you be happy with access? I don't think we should
:24:43. > :24:48.rule anything out and I don't think the government... What would you
:24:49. > :24:53.like? What I do like is the public were saying they wanted some control
:24:54. > :24:58.over immigration and the binary choice we are offering, which is
:24:59. > :25:02.between membership of the single market where there is full freedom
:25:03. > :25:09.of movement, or out. I think it is potentially a false position and we
:25:10. > :25:12.would be able to negotiate preferential access to the single
:25:13. > :25:19.market while maintaining control over our borders. Where I would
:25:20. > :25:22.disagree is I do not think the British public would accept an
:25:23. > :25:27.arrangement which saw the continuation of free movement. I
:25:28. > :25:31.think that would be problematic. We did say this would happen in the
:25:32. > :25:36.remain campaign we did say one of the consequences of Lee vote, which
:25:37. > :25:41.I respect the fact the public voted for, there would then be pressure in
:25:42. > :25:46.different parts of UK. Do you accept your position is now imperilling the
:25:47. > :25:55.union? We have got to make sure it doesn't. It wouldn't have done if
:25:56. > :25:58.Leave hadn't have one. You could argue the Prime Minister should not
:25:59. > :26:04.have called the referendum. Referendum always have a divisive
:26:05. > :26:08.results, not just between the regions and we have got to make sure
:26:09. > :26:10.the United Kingdom stays together. Thank you.
:26:11. > :26:12.Now, plenty of developments in the Ukip leadership
:26:13. > :26:15.So far seven candidates have declared their interest
:26:16. > :26:19.In alphabetical order they are - Andrew Beadle, Bill Etheridge,
:26:20. > :26:21.Suzanne Evans, Raheem Kassam, David Kurten, Paul Nuttall
:26:22. > :26:38.Nominations close at midday next Monday, there will be a series
:26:39. > :26:41.of hustings in the first two weeks of November and the new leader
:26:42. > :26:50.will be announced in a month's time, on Monday 28th November.
:26:51. > :26:59.Over the weekend three of the more prominent candidates were out and
:27:00. > :27:01.about over the airways and this is what they had to say.
:27:02. > :27:04.I think I'm absolutely the right person to champion the cause
:27:05. > :27:06.of those 17.4 million people who voted to leave
:27:07. > :27:08.the European Union and now seeing their democratic choice
:27:09. > :27:11.So, I absolutely want to be their champion.
:27:12. > :27:14.We are seeing hundreds of MPs trying to overturn the verdict,
:27:15. > :27:15.we are seeing activists, lawyers trying to undermined
:27:16. > :27:20.I want to say to them, don't you dare!
:27:21. > :27:22.My job has been to be a very combative journalist.
:27:23. > :27:26.My job is to be a little bit out there, a little bit you know,
:27:27. > :27:28.get some attention, things like that.
:27:29. > :27:32.But nowadays, 21st century, we live our lives in short bursts.
:27:33. > :27:34.I've been a journalist, I've been a think tanker,
:27:35. > :27:37.I've been a Comm director, I've worked for Nigel Farage.
:27:38. > :27:40.You can be different people in your life.
:27:41. > :27:44.I haven't sat here my whole life and gone, I want to aspire to be
:27:45. > :27:46.a politician and therefore I'm going to carry myself
:27:47. > :27:51.I have huge support out there across the country.
:27:52. > :27:54.Not only amongst people at the top of the party,
:27:55. > :27:56.in Westminster, with the MEPs, but also amongst the grassroots.
:27:57. > :27:59.I want to stand on the platform as being the unity candidate,
:28:00. > :28:05.I am not going to be on here and gild the lily,
:28:06. > :28:10.Ukip at the moment is looking over the edge of a political cliff.
:28:11. > :28:12.We'll either step off or it will step back.
:28:13. > :28:15.I want to be the candidate that will tell us to come backwards.
:28:16. > :28:17.Some of Ukip's leadership candidates touring the TV studios yesterday.
:28:18. > :28:20.And we're joined now by prominent Welsh Ukip
:28:21. > :28:34.Welcome to the programme. Are you going to declare and BB-8 Canada?
:28:35. > :28:40.Yes, I have come on here to declare I am standing for the candidacy for
:28:41. > :28:46.the leadership of Ukip. Not many viewers will know you. Tell us about
:28:47. > :28:52.yourself bestial Mark I am an entrepreneur with a background in
:28:53. > :28:56.mountaineering. My business mostly relates to adventurous tourism. I
:28:57. > :29:02.have been a strong supporter of the work of Ukip since the early 1990s.
:29:03. > :29:07.In fact, I only became a member fairly recently because in the past,
:29:08. > :29:13.I was perfectly happy to play a background, supportive role. White
:29:14. > :29:20.background? I believed there were talented people who were capable to
:29:21. > :29:25.do what needed to be done, and we did prove over half the country
:29:26. > :29:29.supports our basic foundation and premise. As you have admitted your
:29:30. > :29:37.self, you are not that well-known, we have done some research. News
:29:38. > :29:47.profile said last year you were a survival expert. One said when you
:29:48. > :29:50.visited IKEA in Bulgaria, you persuaded the cashier to let you
:29:51. > :30:00.carry your handgun in case terrorists besiege the building. No,
:30:01. > :30:06.the man who wrote that rights for an audience who likes embellishment.
:30:07. > :30:10.Which bit is embellished? I do competitive speed pistol shooting.
:30:11. > :30:14.Of course, I was trained by the British Army to operate weapons. It
:30:15. > :30:20.is a waste of taxpayer money if I don't maintain those skills. I have
:30:21. > :30:24.access to Bulgaria. Did you have the gun on you in the store? Yes I did,
:30:25. > :30:31.it was unsafe to hand over to security.
:30:32. > :30:37.The story about laying siege to a building, quite simply, they said to
:30:38. > :30:43.me, the reason they don't allow weapons in their is in case there is
:30:44. > :30:47.an attack. I said, surely you want law-abiding people to be armed? Some
:30:48. > :30:52.people might think that is quite an extreme position to hold in terms of
:30:53. > :30:57.carrying arms. The profile says you are building a secure compound in
:30:58. > :31:01.bulky area in case of a global meltdown featuring a church, a
:31:02. > :31:05.leisure centre, firing range and a watchtower that will double as a
:31:06. > :31:11.diving platform. Do you think you might struggle to convince enough UK
:31:12. > :31:16.voters you're the man to lead Ukip? I really respect what you're doing,
:31:17. > :31:20.I don't know who has assisted you with these questions. With all due
:31:21. > :31:26.respect, I believe people are interested in why I'm standing. That
:31:27. > :31:32.story was entirely exaggerated. If you have property and there are
:31:33. > :31:36.animals around, of course you will secure the property. A secure
:31:37. > :31:43.property simply means a garden with a wall. I'm sure you have that. I do
:31:44. > :31:48.have a garden, I don't secure it in quite that way. People will want to
:31:49. > :31:51.know about what sort of person you are. These reveal you in a certain
:31:52. > :31:57.way and viewers can make up their own mind. What do you want to do
:31:58. > :32:03.with Ukip if you win the contest? The situation we have, Ukip is at a
:32:04. > :32:09.very severe crossroads. My understanding is all the other
:32:10. > :32:12.candidates are jostling to take Ukip down a given path. It may look
:32:13. > :32:17.obvious and straightforward but the end result is Ukip is going to end
:32:18. > :32:22.up as just another political party where people work themselves into
:32:23. > :32:28.positions of power to pursue their own agendas. What I'm proposing to
:32:29. > :32:35.do is transfer power from the leadership to the membership. I
:32:36. > :32:38.believe in a process known as direct democracy where the leadership does
:32:39. > :32:44.not have any authority to move the party in any direction without
:32:45. > :32:53.direct consent. Do you think with that platform you will beat some of
:32:54. > :32:57.the more established candidates? It depends whether people in media are
:32:58. > :33:02.willing to listen to my ideas or whether they want to trivialise it
:33:03. > :33:08.with stories like this. I'm not sure that is trivialising it. Let's talk
:33:09. > :33:14.about one of the other candidates. Paul Nuttall has spoken of his
:33:15. > :33:19.experience of winning over Labour voters in the North of England. Is
:33:20. > :33:26.he the man you are most worried about? I think Labour has got a
:33:27. > :33:29.challenge in those areas, where they would not dream of voting for the
:33:30. > :33:33.Tories and therefore Ukip would be a fallback position. What I think
:33:34. > :33:36.Labour voters would look for is whether there's anything out there
:33:37. > :33:45.which actually improves living conditions. Improve their skills, I
:33:46. > :33:50.don't see at the moment that Ukip are that seductive. What about you.
:33:51. > :33:56.The Conservatives could be saying, did we worry too much about Ukip a
:33:57. > :34:04.few years ago? When you look at the infighting that has broken out. In
:34:05. > :34:10.my party? In Ukip. Did you worry too much about them as a threat? I don't
:34:11. > :34:14.think it was a worry about Ukip. Was a legitimate sense of the public
:34:15. > :34:17.being promised a referendum on the EU and it was taken away and we
:34:18. > :34:21.dealt with that. I still think that was the right thing to do even
:34:22. > :34:31.though the result was not the one we want because I am a Democrat. I
:34:32. > :34:37.think Theresa May, mounting a broad appeal to the whole country, is
:34:38. > :34:44.taking the ground from under their feet. What is the point of Ukip when
:34:45. > :34:51.the public have voted to leave and we have our Prime Minister pledging
:34:52. > :34:56.to implement that? What is the point of Ukip? Can I please summarise my
:34:57. > :35:01.understanding of the situation and what Ukip needs to be moving
:35:02. > :35:04.forward? I will not deny that there is infighting. The situation with
:35:05. > :35:09.Ukip is you have freedom fighters without an enemy. They just won the
:35:10. > :35:12.last battle. When fighters don't have a common enemy they turn on
:35:13. > :35:17.each other. Parachute Regiment. People going out during the week,
:35:18. > :35:20.working hard and doing challenges together. On the weekend, with
:35:21. > :35:28.nothing to do, they fight with each other. It is very common. What I
:35:29. > :35:32.propose to do is direct the aggression towards the enemy. The
:35:33. > :35:37.enemy is? Any kind of politics in Britain that does not represent the
:35:38. > :35:41.will of the people. The politics that puts people into positions of
:35:42. > :35:46.power to pursue their own agendas rather than the agenda that British
:35:47. > :35:50.people give them. Let me push further on your background. You were
:35:51. > :36:00.strongly criticised for the way that you were asked to respond to a claim
:36:01. > :36:06.made by another Ukip candidate. You said a gay donkey tried to assault
:36:07. > :36:14.your horse. Do you stand by that? It is interesting what you're doing. Am
:36:15. > :36:19.trying to tell you my position and your trivialising it. It was playful
:36:20. > :36:23.banter with activist. I would be so appreciative if you could understand
:36:24. > :36:26.the concept I'm trying to communicate to your viewers,
:36:27. > :36:34.according to the plan I have four Ukip, Ukip is going to grow. Right
:36:35. > :36:40.now there is a very little reason to join Ukip. I would not be surprised
:36:41. > :36:44.if we had less than 25,000 members. Are those the sort of answers you
:36:45. > :36:50.would give as leader of the party, even in a frivolous way? I concede
:36:51. > :36:55.it was a mistake to be playful with an activist in the street. I am not
:36:56. > :37:01.a politician. He was asking me questions in the street. It was an
:37:02. > :37:09.error of judgment. I was very early coming into politics. I'm sorry if I
:37:10. > :37:15.offended anyone. Should Theresa May be thinking of calling a snap
:37:16. > :37:21.election? She said she wouldn't and in doing so she would be exchanging
:37:22. > :37:27.the certainty of another 3.5 years. It would give her a mandate for the
:37:28. > :37:35.negotiation. She has a mandate for the British people that we're going
:37:36. > :37:42.to leave. Although I can see that it might be temptation, that would be
:37:43. > :37:48.the question, why run the risk of going for another five years when
:37:49. > :37:50.you already have 3.5 with a workable majority? All right. Thank you very
:37:51. > :37:53.much. The four month EU referendum
:37:54. > :37:55.campaign was fought vigorously by both sides, indeed "All Out War"
:37:56. > :37:58.is the title of a new book about the EU Referendum and we'll be
:37:59. > :38:01.talking to it's author, But had the battle been lost
:38:02. > :38:05.by the remain side before the campaign itself began,
:38:06. > :38:07.because the deal that David Cameron came back with from Brussels didn't
:38:08. > :38:10.live up to voters' expectations? Here's a reminder of those
:38:11. > :38:23.months of EU diplomacy. When we have negotiated
:38:24. > :38:25.that new settlement, we will give the British people
:38:26. > :38:28.a referendum with a very simple in Britain, I know you want this
:38:29. > :38:49.sorted, so I will go to Brussels, And when it comes to free movement,
:38:50. > :39:05.I will get what Britain needs. The British people have
:39:06. > :39:07.spoken and the answer is, The Sun has risen on an
:39:08. > :39:13.independent United Kingdom. And just look at it,
:39:14. > :39:19.even the weather's improved. I love this country and I feel
:39:20. > :39:24.honoured to have served it. And I will do everything I can
:39:25. > :39:27.in future to help this And we're joined now
:39:28. > :39:39.by the author of "All Out War" and Sunday Times Political Editor,
:39:40. > :39:52.Tim Shipman. Welcome to the programme. Your
:39:53. > :39:56.thesis that David Cameron failed to meaningfully get anything out of
:39:57. > :40:03.that the gauche Asian was the key to why he lost. -- negotiation. I think
:40:04. > :40:07.that is why he lost. People think the deal was nothing much and that
:40:08. > :40:13.made things easier for them. There is what happens during the campaign
:40:14. > :40:16.and the context of 30 years of Euroscepticism, and a view across
:40:17. > :40:20.the western world that globalisation has failed people. But if 600,000
:40:21. > :40:23.people had voted differently we would have a different result and
:40:24. > :40:25.there are a lot of things David Cameron got wrong during that
:40:26. > :40:32.campaign that could have swayed some of those notes. Why'd you think he
:40:33. > :40:39.thought he could dramatically reform the EU, bearing in mind 30 years of
:40:40. > :40:43.Euroscepticism? It seems blindingly obvious they were not going to give
:40:44. > :40:47.way on those key cornerstones of the EU. In terms of the practicalities,
:40:48. > :40:52.he never put them on the spot. He asked them for certain things on
:40:53. > :40:55.benefits. He never said we are going to leave unless you do this on
:40:56. > :41:01.freedom of movement. It is very likely perhaps he would not have got
:41:02. > :41:05.that but he never forced them to choose. Lots of other things went
:41:06. > :41:08.wrong as well. He ran a campaign that replayed the Conservative
:41:09. > :41:12.playbook from the Scottish referendum and from the general
:41:13. > :41:16.election. He didn't have a proper campaign chief running the show. He
:41:17. > :41:23.didn't have the press onside echoing his messages in the way they had
:41:24. > :41:28.done previously. Ultimately, he put the unity of the Conservative Party
:41:29. > :41:35.ahead of winning the referendum. It was tactical changes all the way
:41:36. > :41:39.through. The unity of the party was what it was all about and he could
:41:40. > :41:48.not have believed he would dramatically reform the EU. I agree
:41:49. > :41:51.with the fundamental weakness being a policy or an answer on immigration
:41:52. > :41:58.and if we had done then the result would have been significant. I think
:41:59. > :42:00.the benefit changes were not enough to persuade the British people.
:42:01. > :42:04.There were other elements of the deal that were quite significant but
:42:05. > :42:08.it was impossible to persuade the public of that at the time. It is
:42:09. > :42:16.worth pointing out that one thing that happened between David
:42:17. > :42:19.Cameron's speech where he declared he wanted radical reform and that
:42:20. > :42:25.negotiations which was the other countries deciding they did not want
:42:26. > :42:28.treaty change. He was forced into a negotiation on things that would not
:42:29. > :42:33.require treaty change, which meant it would be less radical. Which was
:42:34. > :42:37.precisely the argument that George Osborne was making. He was violently
:42:38. > :42:40.against holding a referendum and he thought it would divide the party
:42:41. > :42:50.and there was a danger of it being lost. At the time treaty comes up
:42:51. > :42:53.then we can have the argument. We did not have leveraged. He set a
:42:54. > :42:58.timetable in advance and when it came to it, the rest of them were
:42:59. > :43:03.worrying about the migration crisis and the continued problems. They did
:43:04. > :43:09.not want to talk to us about Lisa Derrick concerns about sovereignty.
:43:10. > :43:12.George Osborne was his closest ally, why was he not able to persuade
:43:13. > :43:17.David Cameron against making that speech and holding the referendum?
:43:18. > :43:20.Michael Gove was also making the same argument but Cameron had taken
:43:21. > :43:24.the view that something must be done. The problem was he decided
:43:25. > :43:27.something must be done, you had not worked out precisely how that was
:43:28. > :43:34.going to work through. At that point he made that argument in 2013 it was
:43:35. > :43:39.still five years away from when he thought it was going to be an issue.
:43:40. > :43:42.A lot of people thought there was no way the Tories would have won the
:43:43. > :43:48.2015 general election without making that pledge and perhaps the argument
:43:49. > :43:57.would not have worked. If we'd had a different political environment,
:43:58. > :44:04.Ukip were on course to win those elections, they could have won some
:44:05. > :44:08.parliamentary seats. Were you with George Osborne on not holding the
:44:09. > :44:16.referendum? I was urging we should hold it because we knew that there
:44:17. > :44:18.was this groundswell of concern and that had been exacerbated by the
:44:19. > :44:26.cancellation of the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty when people felt
:44:27. > :44:30.they had been betrayed. If you read what he said in his speech about
:44:31. > :44:36.what was going wrong in Europe, it is faultless. The problem was the
:44:37. > :44:42.package did not live up to the reforms that were needed. You could
:44:43. > :44:45.just as easily blame our partners for not recognising the forces
:44:46. > :44:49.present in this country and their own countries. You could blame them
:44:50. > :44:58.but in the end... Expectations may have been raised far too high,
:44:59. > :45:01.because you could not meet those demands. David Cameron was relying
:45:02. > :45:10.on Labour getting more people out to vote in favour of remaining. If
:45:11. > :45:16.there had been changed to immigration would you still have
:45:17. > :45:24.voted that? If Cameron had recognition from the EU that they
:45:25. > :45:27.could see some countries never been part of the single currency,
:45:28. > :45:34.different relationships, I would have fallen silent.
:45:35. > :45:46.The big error labour made is it gave itself as a remain party. There was
:45:47. > :45:55.a debate about whether there would be a two speed Europe. Speed means
:45:56. > :45:59.the same end point. Let's talk about Theresa May, now obviously as Prime
:46:00. > :46:04.Minister. You say David Cameron wanted to go in with a tough
:46:05. > :46:08.negotiating stance, but they didn't support him? There was this one
:46:09. > :46:12.moment when he made a big speech on immigration which set the tone for
:46:13. > :46:17.the rest of the immigration parts of the deal, which was a year in
:46:18. > :46:21.advance. There was a meeting where David Cameron was pushing for an
:46:22. > :46:26.emergency brake on numbers. Before and after the meeting, Theresa May
:46:27. > :46:29.backed him. In the key meeting it transpired she and Philip Hammond
:46:30. > :46:33.said you cannot go against Angela Merkel. If she is not going to
:46:34. > :46:37.support this, they didn't see the point in doing it. It is a key
:46:38. > :46:43.moment where things have turned. What does it reveal in terms of how
:46:44. > :46:47.she will then carry out her negotiations now with Angela Merkel
:46:48. > :46:51.and others? It shows she is quite practical and is also someone who
:46:52. > :46:57.will probably be quite cautious about how she goes about things.
:46:58. > :47:02.Will she capitulate? The politics are different now. When she was Home
:47:03. > :47:06.Secretary, she could stay positions, but it wasn't her who was going to
:47:07. > :47:10.be the person in the firing line. It's different when you are Prime
:47:11. > :47:15.Minister and the buck stops with you. As a remain campaign, if
:47:16. > :47:18.slightly half-hearted, Theresa May has got to prove to the Eurosceptic
:47:19. > :47:24.she will take a tougher line, and so far that is what she's doing. A lot
:47:25. > :47:28.of people in the Cabinet suspect she will be closer to Philip Hammond's
:47:29. > :47:32.soft Brexit position than she is letting on, but at the moment she
:47:33. > :47:36.has to stick to it. She knows if she doesn't deliver something that looks
:47:37. > :47:41.like a robust departure from the European Union, her job is on the
:47:42. > :47:47.line. That is different from David Cameron's job being on the line.
:47:48. > :47:56.Gisela, he wrote about the 24, 48 hours ahead of Boris Johnson's
:47:57. > :48:00.campaign collapsing Michael Gove's campaign. Did you think Boris
:48:01. > :48:04.Johnson was up to the job of being Prime Minister? What I thought would
:48:05. > :48:07.be a problem for the Conservative Party, they would end up in a
:48:08. > :48:12.position similar to the Labour Party if they had a ballot paper with
:48:13. > :48:16.Boris Johnson and Theresa May on. They would have had one candour that
:48:17. > :48:21.the party members liked and another candidate the MPs would like. That
:48:22. > :48:26.would have been their problem. Lots more to discuss, but at another
:48:27. > :48:29.time. Then I will declare for the leadership of Ukip next time. It is
:48:30. > :48:30.going to be a crowded room, isn't it?
:48:31. > :48:32.It's going to desecrate the countryside, pollute water
:48:33. > :48:34.supplies and contribute to climate change.
:48:35. > :48:36.Fracking would be an environmental disaster no less, well that's
:48:37. > :48:39.the view of most environmentalists, but not the former boss
:48:40. > :48:52.of Greenpeace, Stephen Tindale, here's his soapbox.
:48:53. > :49:01.I've spent the last 25 years campaigning on Green issues,
:49:02. > :49:05.including five years as head of Greenpeace UK.
:49:06. > :49:08.But there's one issue on which I think the Green movement
:49:09. > :49:29.Here in the Lancashire countryside, the government has now given
:49:30. > :49:31.permission to Cuadrilla to frack at Preston New Road.
:49:32. > :49:34.That's a good start, but we need dozens more such sites.
:49:35. > :49:36.Activist groups like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth,
:49:37. > :49:39.should stop opposing shale gas and start embracing fracking.
:49:40. > :49:45.The reality is, Britain is facing an energy crisis.
:49:46. > :49:48.And the number one environmental priority has to be to get rid
:49:49. > :49:54.The government has said coal stations will close within the next
:49:55. > :49:58.decade, but only if alternatives are available.
:49:59. > :50:03.So green campaigners must support all the alternatives.
:50:04. > :50:06.Anything but coal must be in the motto.
:50:07. > :50:11.The best alternative is renewable energy such as wind.
:50:12. > :50:14.But there is no way renewables can expand fast enough by 2025
:50:15. > :50:21.Nuclear is also progressing very slowly.
:50:22. > :50:23.Gas is a proven technology, only half as damaging
:50:24. > :50:31.And most homes in Britain use gas for central heating.
:50:32. > :50:34.Britain now imports gas from Norway and Qatar.
:50:35. > :50:45.In Qatar, the gas is turned into liquid and brought by tanker.
:50:46. > :50:48.That makes it about 10% more climate damaging than shale gas would be.
:50:49. > :50:52.And there are very serious human rights campaigns about Qatar.
:50:53. > :50:56.Shale gas, that can be extracted from rocks,
:50:57. > :51:00.such as these on the Fylde Coast, offers a better option.
:51:01. > :51:02.Fracking needs to be tightly regulated, as President Obama
:51:03. > :51:10.And evidence now shows that fracking does not lead to the devastation
:51:11. > :51:20.So, if we want to keep the lights on and stop burning coal,
:51:21. > :51:23.it's time for green campaigners to stop saying "frack-off"
:51:24. > :51:34.He's here in the studio with us now and we're joined from Blackburn
:51:35. > :51:40.by the Anti-Fracking campaigner, Tina Rothery.
:51:41. > :51:49.People will be amazed to listen to you in the green cause, promoting
:51:50. > :51:56.fracking? Why must fracking be the answer? Fracking must be part of the
:51:57. > :52:06.answer, not the whole answer but part of the answer. Because we are
:52:07. > :52:11.still burning coal. It is much worse than any other option. As long as
:52:12. > :52:16.you get rid of burning coal, gas is the way forward, do you not agree to
:52:17. > :52:24.keep the lights on in the interim period until renewables are far
:52:25. > :52:27.enough on? There is a great deal of infrastructure required. If Stephen
:52:28. > :52:32.is talking about keeping the lights on, at what they does he feel they
:52:33. > :52:36.are going out and how does he think fracking could meet that date when
:52:37. > :52:43.to get a decent contribution to energy, it's going to be at least
:52:44. > :52:47.ten to 15 years. Also, when Stephen spoke about it, fracking originally
:52:48. > :52:52.when he started promoting it, he talked about when we had carbon
:52:53. > :52:56.capture and storage. The government has blown that out of the water, so
:52:57. > :53:03.surely his argument fails on that also. Also what about it won't be
:53:04. > :53:07.online on time? It will come online more quickly, if green activists,
:53:08. > :53:12.who have an important role in society, but shouldn't be beyond
:53:13. > :53:15.criticism, if green campaigners started supporting fracking, it
:53:16. > :53:20.would come online more quickly and that would enable us to get rid of
:53:21. > :53:25.coal more quickly. The point about carbon capture and storage,
:53:26. > :53:29.absolutely, I am doing everything I can to try and persuade the
:53:30. > :53:33.government to bring carbon capture and storage back into the equation.
:53:34. > :53:40.Then it would be possible to burn coal safely and gas safely. With the
:53:41. > :53:45.right regulations and the sort of conditions Stephen is talking about,
:53:46. > :53:49.what is your objection to fracking? We don't believe the regulators are
:53:50. > :53:54.up to the tasks, we have seen Canada, America and Australia, their
:53:55. > :53:59.regulators have let them down. We give 1.3 billion in tax breaks to
:54:00. > :54:03.the fossil fuel industry but we are cutting them for renewables and we
:54:04. > :54:08.are saving ourselves 67p households on what we save on putting renewable
:54:09. > :54:13.subsidies. It isn't just the activists who are back the
:54:14. > :54:17.production of new technologies, if the government would maybe give some
:54:18. > :54:22.of those tax breaks to renewables, we could surge ahead and start
:54:23. > :54:26.weaning ourselves of this old fossil fuel industry, that no matter how
:54:27. > :54:30.you look at it, has an expiry date. Shouldn't you be taking your fight
:54:31. > :54:34.to the government and pushing further ahead in the way Tina is
:54:35. > :54:39.outlining to push renewables, which you do believe in. As opposed to
:54:40. > :54:46.directing your fire at anti-fracking campaigners? I am picking plenty of
:54:47. > :54:51.fights with the government. In regulation, the UK regulators are
:54:52. > :54:58.better, they are not perfect. They need to be properly resourced, but
:54:59. > :55:01.the Environment Agency is already requiring any fracking sites to be
:55:02. > :55:06.properly closed down and not just left and any water that has been
:55:07. > :55:10.used for water to be held in closed containers, not just in empty ponds,
:55:11. > :55:15.which is what happened in The States. On the subsidies, tax breaks
:55:16. > :55:19.or indirect subsidies, but the government currently gets no money
:55:20. > :55:24.from tax on fracking because there isn't any fracking. If they were to
:55:25. > :55:28.actually give money to fracking I would oppose that and I have said
:55:29. > :55:33.that. But they are proposing a lower tax rate so they will get some tax
:55:34. > :55:39.revenues, which should go to renewables. In the end, we have seen
:55:40. > :55:43.the arrival of the first shipments of shale gas from the US, if we are
:55:44. > :55:49.going to be importing it, why wouldn't it be better to have some
:55:50. > :55:54.fracking Lancashire where it could create local jobs and help the
:55:55. > :55:58.economy? From Pennsylvania, they begged us not to because it
:55:59. > :56:03.encourages the industry in an already damaged area. The deal we
:56:04. > :56:08.have for importing shale gas from America, I believe is a 20 year
:56:09. > :56:14.contract that would be very hard to get out of. An industry like this in
:56:15. > :56:17.our country, the requirement for silica sand is huge and that will
:56:18. > :56:21.happen in Cheshire and that will rip be required to service the fracking
:56:22. > :56:25.industry along with pipelines and infrastructure. We would put that
:56:26. > :56:29.investment in that would put out in about ten to 15 years' time, would
:56:30. > :56:34.last only a couple of decades then be closed down and then we will be
:56:35. > :56:37.hearing about job losses. In Australia they recently banned
:56:38. > :56:41.fracking because it would decimate agriculture and for every ten jobs
:56:42. > :56:47.you get in fracking, you lose 18 in agriculture. That was a cross-party
:56:48. > :56:52.five-year study that proves that. Nick Herbert, you are against
:56:53. > :56:59.fracking in your constituency? I am not against fracking per se, I have
:57:00. > :57:03.raised concerns about the impact on landscapes such as the South Downs.
:57:04. > :57:08.There is an interest in protecting areas like the South Downs. The
:57:09. > :57:12.issues, one is the below the ground issues, which can be dealt with. But
:57:13. > :57:18.then there are the surface issues which require setting up the
:57:19. > :57:23.wellhead and lorry movements. You would be happy for it in Lancashire
:57:24. > :57:28.but not in West Sussex? There are already oil wells in West Sussex,
:57:29. > :57:32.including my constituency. The question is whether they are
:57:33. > :57:36.sensibly located that doesn't cause disruption to local communities or
:57:37. > :57:40.damage to the countryside. It can be achieved if the industry is
:57:41. > :57:49.sensible. Is it acceptable or is it NIMBY -ism? It is a bit of both. I
:57:50. > :57:54.make no apology for wanting to protect the South Downs. That is the
:57:55. > :57:59.role of a constituency MP. The wells have to be where there is shale gas.
:58:00. > :58:06.It is better to have shale gas in the UK than imported, or import any
:58:07. > :58:08.gas from Qatar where they have slave labour. I will have to say goodbye
:58:09. > :58:10.to both of you. There's just time before we go
:58:11. > :58:13.to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was who was Ed Balls
:58:14. > :58:16.advised not to try and emulate on Strictly Come Dancing this
:58:17. > :58:50.weekend after he struggled I like the way he pushed her back
:58:51. > :59:12.on. But that's it for today, thank you to my guests. Goodbye.
:59:13. > :59:17.DINAH WASHINGTON: # Now you say you love me