:00:37. > :00:38.Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.The Government comes under fire over its funding
:00:42. > :00:45.for the NHS in England, as MPs say the Prime Minister's
:00:46. > :00:51.claim that it's getting a ?10 billion boost is "false".
:00:52. > :00:53.The race to replace Nigel Farage heats up as nominations
:00:54. > :01:00.One candidate pulls out at the last minute and accuses the top
:01:01. > :01:03.of the party of treating the contest "like a coronation".
:01:04. > :01:09.Work and Pensions Secretary Damian Green promises personalised support
:01:10. > :01:11.to help more people move from benefits into work.
:01:12. > :01:15.We'll look at the Government's plans for welfare reform.
:01:16. > :01:19.And we've exclusive behind-the-scenes access
:01:20. > :01:21.to the House of Commons voting lobby, where old traditions
:01:22. > :01:30.are being updated with digital technology.
:01:31. > :01:35.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:36. > :01:37.of the programme today, the Minister for Disabled People,
:01:38. > :01:46.And, soon, the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, Debbie Abrahams.
:01:47. > :01:48.Let's start with the warning today from the Conservative chair
:01:49. > :01:51.of the Health Select Committee that the NHS in England
:01:52. > :01:54.is under enormous pressure and needs more more money.
:01:55. > :01:57.Sarah Wollaston also says that Government claims that the NHS
:01:58. > :02:00.in England is due to receive an extra ?10 billion
:02:01. > :02:07.It gives a false impression that the NHS is awash with cash,
:02:08. > :02:10.and in fact if you look at the way that figure is reached,
:02:11. > :02:13.it's by adding another year to the Spending Review and also
:02:14. > :02:17.by changing pots of money from one part of the health budget
:02:18. > :02:21.to another, so for example taking money out of public health
:02:22. > :02:27.And so it can give an impression that more is given when in fact
:02:28. > :02:33.the real figure is very considerably lower.
:02:34. > :02:41.Sarah Wallerstein there. The real figure, she says, is 4.5 billion, so
:02:42. > :02:45.less than half. Is she right, or the Government? I have a great deal of
:02:46. > :02:49.respect for Sarah and she has said good things about the need to get
:02:50. > :02:54.more money into prevention and primary care, but I think she is
:02:55. > :02:59.wrong on the numbers. We have funded the NHS' own plan, they asked us, we
:03:00. > :03:03.asked them how much they needed, they said in Italy 8 billion, that
:03:04. > :03:09.rose to ten and we have given them that money. But hang on, the money
:03:10. > :03:13.is going to NHS in England, which is, albeit important, one part of
:03:14. > :03:18.the NHS. What Sarah Wollaston was saying is that other parts of the
:03:19. > :03:22.NHS, such as social care, is losing money, money taken from the budget
:03:23. > :03:27.to boost another part, so the NHS as a whole is not getting a ?10 billion
:03:28. > :03:32.boost. Two points, first of all we have funded the NHS' own plan, the
:03:33. > :03:40.second thing is, with regard to the other services such as social care
:03:41. > :03:46.that local Government funds, local Government reserves have doubled
:03:47. > :03:50.since 2010, there are 22.5 billion currently sat in local Government
:03:51. > :03:53.reserve accounts. Every local Government person on this programme
:03:54. > :03:56.has said they have been cut to the bone and social care has been
:03:57. > :04:01.starved over a longer period of time then just boosting reserves
:04:02. > :04:04.recently. Don't get me wrong, there are challenges there but money is
:04:05. > :04:07.going into those areas, 5.3 billion in the better care fund and we have
:04:08. > :04:24.enabled local governments to raise its own money,
:04:25. > :04:26.we have relaxed the rules around how much council tax can be raised
:04:27. > :04:29.locally, provided it is spent on social care. But money is not the
:04:30. > :04:32.only issue here, the way we are going to get all the money that is
:04:33. > :04:34.available in the system to work best is if we enable people at local
:04:35. > :04:37.level to put that money into prevention and early services. Not
:04:38. > :04:39.piling it on to acute care. I take that point, but she is making a
:04:40. > :04:45.serious accusation that the Government has misled the public,
:04:46. > :04:53.have they? Know. So she is wrong? Absolutely. She says you only arrive
:04:54. > :04:57.at the budget of ?10 billion in terms of a boost over five years by
:04:58. > :05:01.shifting money from public health budget and health education and
:05:02. > :05:07.training, and also including an extra year in the calculation, so
:05:08. > :05:12.2015-2015 rather than just the term of this Parliament. That is
:05:13. > :05:17.misleading, it is slight of hand? Know, this is funding the NHS' own
:05:18. > :05:19.plan. There are other issues she raises about particular pressures
:05:20. > :05:25.that health care faces, inflation and so forth on drug costs and
:05:26. > :05:29.things like that, but this is about as supplying the money the NHS said
:05:30. > :05:32.it needed. We were the only political party to make that
:05:33. > :05:40.commitment at the general election and since then... That has been
:05:41. > :05:42.contested, saying it is aimed misinterpretation by the
:05:43. > :05:46.Conservative Government. East so you are saying money has not shifted
:05:47. > :05:51.from any other budget and including the extra year is not misleading? I
:05:52. > :05:56.do not follow what Sarah says when she says we are claiming that the
:05:57. > :06:02.system is awash with cash. We have never claimed that, we note that
:06:03. > :06:07.every year there are increasing pressures, an older population being
:06:08. > :06:09.just one of them, so we know that there are serious challenges out
:06:10. > :06:14.there but we have made this a priority, we have said to the NHS,
:06:15. > :06:19.give us your plan, tell us what you need and we will meet that. In
:06:20. > :06:22.addition to that, we have enabled local Government, on top of the
:06:23. > :06:27.better care fund, which is going into social care, we have enabled it
:06:28. > :06:31.to raise its own money. Well, she said she will have conversations
:06:32. > :06:33.with Philip Hammond, the Treasury, about this, so that should be
:06:34. > :06:35.interesting. Thank you. It's Halloween, so what ghostly
:06:36. > :06:41.presence is supposed to be Is it a) Winston
:06:42. > :06:43.Churchill's cigar smoke? B) The apparition of Ed Balls' mad
:06:44. > :06:48.professor on Strictly? C) The wails of former
:06:49. > :06:52.Prime Minister Viscount Goderich, known as 'the blubberer' for his
:06:53. > :07:00.tendency to cry while in office. Or, d) the feline ghost of former
:07:01. > :07:11.chief mouser Humphrey the cat. At the end of the show Penny
:07:12. > :07:14.and Debbie, who has now arrived, Welfare reform was one
:07:15. > :07:19.of the centrepieces of David Cameron's programme
:07:20. > :07:21.when the Conservatives first came Today the Government has announced
:07:22. > :07:33.new plans to help more disabled people into employment,
:07:34. > :07:35.which they say will provide a more "targeted and personalised" way
:07:36. > :07:38.to help more people find jobs. But with pressure on Ministers
:07:39. > :07:41.to make work pay and reduce welfare Damian Green said earlier this month
:07:42. > :07:49.that his vision was 'a welfare state fit for the world of work
:07:50. > :07:53.in the 21st century'. So what issues are on the Work
:07:54. > :07:56.and Pensions Secretary's desk? Work capability assessments,
:07:57. > :08:00.the scheme that assesses claimants of disability benefits,
:08:01. > :08:04.are set for an overhaul as part Statutory sick pay and GP fit notes
:08:05. > :08:11.are also to be reviewed as part of an effort to help disabled people
:08:12. > :08:15.back into work. But the Government still faces
:08:16. > :08:17.criticism for failures by Concentrix, a private company
:08:18. > :08:20.contracted to tackle benefit fraud that has been accused of incorrectly
:08:21. > :08:24.withdrawing tax credits The flagship universal credit scheme
:08:25. > :08:31.is up and running but is not forecast to be fully
:08:32. > :08:36.delivered until 2022 - 11 years after it
:08:37. > :08:43.was first announced. The Conservative MP Heidi Allen has
:08:44. > :08:47.called for cuts to work incentives in the scheme made
:08:48. > :08:50.by George Osborne to be reversed. And there is increased scrutiny
:08:51. > :08:52.over the triple lock - the Government's pledge
:08:53. > :08:56.that the state pension will always rise by wages, prices or 2.5%,
:08:57. > :09:00.whichever is higher. Former Work and Pensions Secretary
:09:01. > :09:02.Iain Duncan Smith told the Sunday Politics yesterday
:09:03. > :09:05.that it was time to scrap the pledge and spend
:09:06. > :09:09.the money elsewhere. Well, the Work and Pensions
:09:10. > :09:12.Secretary, Damian Green, was talking earlier this morning
:09:13. > :09:15.about those new plans to help more Well, the system isn't working well
:09:16. > :09:23.enough for large numbers of people. We've got huge numbers of people,
:09:24. > :09:25.unprecedentedly high numbers of people, in work,
:09:26. > :09:28.about 80%, but just under 50% And what I want to do is to tap
:09:29. > :09:36.into the huge amount of talent there is there,
:09:37. > :09:40.and also most of those people do want to work, and so the system
:09:41. > :09:43.needs to change so that We aspire to be a Government that
:09:44. > :09:49.works for everyone and that includes all those people who want to work
:09:50. > :09:52.but now can't, and that requires changes not just in Jobcentre Plus,
:09:53. > :09:57.the things I'm directly responsible for, but also in the health service
:09:58. > :10:11.and in the attitude of employers. Damian Green there. The Government
:10:12. > :10:14.is reviewing the work capability assessment, by giving that are you
:10:15. > :10:21.admitting it is not currently fit for purpose? I think it could be
:10:22. > :10:24.improved dramatically both in terms of the process, currently we don't
:10:25. > :10:27.make good use of all of the bits of information different parts of
:10:28. > :10:32.Government has, we require people to feel into many forms and give the
:10:33. > :10:35.State information, the same information, over and again, so
:10:36. > :10:39.there is a lot that can still be done with the process. We have
:10:40. > :10:43.obviously made some announcements on changing that, for example not
:10:44. > :10:49.requiring people with degenerative conditions to go through retests,
:10:50. > :10:52.but we think there are further more fundamental reforms that are
:10:53. > :10:56.required, particularly splitting out the finance from any conditionality
:10:57. > :11:02.that we place on an individual. Why has it taken so long? I am conscious
:11:03. > :11:05.that I have been in the Department for 18 weeks and my in tray looks
:11:06. > :11:11.very different to the one Iain Duncan Smith had to tackle when he
:11:12. > :11:14.took over the department, so I think we are building on the reforms that
:11:15. > :11:19.he has done. But it is a slow process. I think there were some
:11:20. > :11:25.other things that were very pressing that he wanted to tackle. But we are
:11:26. > :11:28.now in a position because of work done and other reforms that the work
:11:29. > :11:35.capability assessment has undergone to take this fundamental look and I
:11:36. > :11:38.think it is long overdue, but very important that we start the
:11:39. > :11:42.consultation. And something that perhaps should have been done by
:11:43. > :11:47.Iain Duncan Smith, having got as far as he did with the reforms? We are
:11:48. > :11:51.continuing a programme of work that he set out. The reason this is so
:11:52. > :11:56.important is that currently you have people with a health condition, or
:11:57. > :11:59.who have a disability, who are parked with no support, so
:12:00. > :12:06.ironically those that need the most help don't get it because we have
:12:07. > :12:11.money attached to the conditions that we place on someone. That needs
:12:12. > :12:14.to be reformed. We will talk about some of the incentives for people
:12:15. > :12:18.with chronic illnesses or long-term conditions in a moment, but do you
:12:19. > :12:22.welcome the fact that this review is happening, even if you think it is
:12:23. > :12:26.long overdue, is it the right review? As you have just said,
:12:27. > :12:31.actions speak louder than words. We have known for a number of years
:12:32. > :12:34.that the work capability assessment is not working, it dehumanises
:12:35. > :12:38.people, there is a piece of research at last year that shows it
:12:39. > :12:43.exacerbates mental health conditions, increasing suicides.
:12:44. > :12:47.There are all sorts of issues associated with not just the work
:12:48. > :12:51.capability assessment but other aspects of it. Do you accept that
:12:52. > :12:54.assessment that that is what it has done to people either disabled and
:12:55. > :12:57.claiming benefit or other people with long-term conditions who have
:12:58. > :13:01.to go through that work assessment, that it has caused them to become
:13:02. > :13:07.more ill or in some places commit suicide? I think that leaving aside
:13:08. > :13:12.the fundamental reforms we want to do to the policy, the delivery of
:13:13. > :13:19.that policy is absolutely critical. I think even if you don't have
:13:20. > :13:23.anxiety or depression or anything that could be exacerbated by such a
:13:24. > :13:29.process, if you are having to go through an enormous amount of
:13:30. > :13:33.bureaucracy and an unnecessary number of assessments, that is not
:13:34. > :13:38.going to do anyone any good at all, so I think it is the process as well
:13:39. > :13:42.as what we are trying to get out of that. So you admit it has not helped
:13:43. > :13:47.in many people's cases in terms of trying to deal with what are
:13:48. > :13:49.probably difficult things? The Government's statement include
:13:50. > :13:54.references to helping people with long-term conditions but we have
:13:55. > :13:57.heard to date on the BBC that people with long-term conditions such as
:13:58. > :14:02.rheumatoid arthritis or Parkinson's, there is a of threat or incentive
:14:03. > :14:06.hanging over those people that they are going to be reassessed despite
:14:07. > :14:09.the fact that they have long-term conditions which would make it
:14:10. > :14:13.difficult to go back to work, do you accept that? Part of the reason we
:14:14. > :14:17.are doing the paper jointly with health is because we realise it is
:14:18. > :14:22.not just employment support interventions that need to be
:14:23. > :14:28.improved, it is also about people who need access to pain management,
:14:29. > :14:33.physiotherapy, a whole raft of interventions, mental health support
:14:34. > :14:38.being a particularly poignant one. That is why we are producing this
:14:39. > :14:42.paper today, because we know that, to date, the systems have not worked
:14:43. > :14:47.to assist those people. But let me be very clear that those people who
:14:48. > :14:53.are not able to work will not be required to work. That will come as
:14:54. > :14:57.some comfort to people, of course the definition of who is not able to
:14:58. > :15:02.work will still be up for interpretation. Can I just put to
:15:03. > :15:05.you first of all, you said yesterday the Government's approach was
:15:06. > :15:08.ideological grip on with the sole purpose of targeting the most
:15:09. > :15:12.vulnerable in society, what is your evidence for that? First of all let
:15:13. > :15:18.me comment on what Penny has just said. We are in the context of an
:15:19. > :15:29.NHS financial crisis. Not just a social care
:15:30. > :15:33.crisis, we are talking about support for disabled people, some basic
:15:34. > :15:36.support about helping them get out of bed in the morning. Where on
:15:37. > :15:38.earth is that going to come from? This is completely pie in the sky,
:15:39. > :15:40.we have employment support cuts for disabled people by more than a
:15:41. > :15:45.third. Again, how is this about helping get disabled people into
:15:46. > :15:48.work? It is all very well, as I said, they are fine words but
:15:49. > :15:52.actions speak louder. So you will wait to see what the actions are,
:15:53. > :15:56.but come back to the question, ideological driven with the purpose
:15:57. > :15:59.of targeting the most vulnerable in society, do you stand by that
:16:00. > :16:03.claimed that that is what the Government is doing? If we look at
:16:04. > :16:09.what has happened over the last few years, nearly ?30 billion of cuts to
:16:10. > :16:17.7 million people, another 1500 per year for people on EFA WRAG, these
:16:18. > :16:20.are the most vulnerable people in society and we should not target
:16:21. > :16:25.them. There is no evidence in terms of the approach the Government is
:16:26. > :16:31.taking, this is about getting people off loaded, purely and simply. So
:16:32. > :16:36.you are targeting the most vulnerable because the cuts show
:16:37. > :16:42.that? I think that is very wrong and there is... You are right, it is
:16:43. > :16:46.wrong! There is a mood to portray not just Government but also those
:16:47. > :16:51.people providing those services in our job centres as people that don't
:16:52. > :16:55.care, and this issue should be an issue... People have come to me and
:16:56. > :17:00.said people are being targeted. Don't talk over each other, finish
:17:01. > :17:04.your sentence. I had a constituent who worked in a job centre for 20
:17:05. > :17:10.years and came to me and said claimants are being targeted, there
:17:11. > :17:11.are targets about getting people off-loaded, sanctions through the
:17:12. > :17:23.work capability assessment. If you have targets driven by
:17:24. > :17:26.profit, surely you will get a situation where people are treated
:17:27. > :17:36.as if they are in a sausage factory? It used to be the case that
:17:37. > :17:40.Jobcentre staff was rewarded depending on how they were
:17:41. > :17:46.performing. This was not a good way to monitor things. What we should be
:17:47. > :17:49.measuring and what the thrust of the green paper is and the changes we
:17:50. > :17:54.have made over the last 18 weeks is measuring individuals' distance
:17:55. > :18:01.travelled. There will be some people whose goals are to get back into
:18:02. > :18:04.full-time work. There will be some whose goal is meaningful activity,
:18:05. > :18:08.and some will not be able to do any of that. We have to look at what
:18:09. > :18:11.support that individual needs. By companies that the government has
:18:12. > :18:16.employed to do these jobs have not had a good track record in dealing
:18:17. > :18:25.with people on a human basis so far, if you believe all the stories. And
:18:26. > :18:29.on that, Concentrix, the company contacted by the government to
:18:30. > :18:31.tackle tax credit fraud which was accused of incorrectly withdrawing
:18:32. > :18:36.benefits from hundreds of families, do you accept that ministers bear
:18:37. > :18:41.responsibility for this by incentivising payment by results?
:18:42. > :18:48.Well, the issues we have with tax credits are serious. And they are
:18:49. > :18:54.unacceptable. I have had them in my own constituency. But we need to
:18:55. > :18:57.ensure that whether it is in a contract, whether we performance
:18:58. > :19:01.manage our staff, the right incentives are there. But those were
:19:02. > :19:07.the wrong incentives. If you incentivised by payment by results,
:19:08. > :19:10.you are going to get the sort of very sad stories that we hear is as
:19:11. > :19:17.a result of going through the system. In the case of the tax
:19:18. > :19:25.credits the problem is some of the IT systems they have been using. We
:19:26. > :19:32.had a case the other day of someone who was accused of living in a shop,
:19:33. > :19:39.because they were living above a shop. Does the government over those
:19:40. > :19:43.people an apology? Absolutely. We have to accept that the policy is
:19:44. > :19:48.one thing and even if we have the perfect policy, we have to ensure
:19:49. > :19:59.that it is delivered in an excellent way. With regard to the Department
:20:00. > :20:04.for Work and Pensions, our staff are subject matter experts with these
:20:05. > :20:14.issues. They are not medical professionals. That is nonsense. We
:20:15. > :20:18.have expert disability advisers. You have one specialist disability
:20:19. > :20:24.adviser for every 600 people. How can you say you are committed? That
:20:25. > :20:28.is why we are bringing out another 300. On the basis that Penny
:20:29. > :20:31.Mordaunt says ministers should apologise for the tax credit
:20:32. > :20:35.debacle, which meant hundreds of families had their tax credits
:20:36. > :20:43.stopped, do you welcome that apology? I do. The statement of last
:20:44. > :20:49.week was a very measured one. And now, when we look at what will be in
:20:50. > :20:52.the contracts in future for work capability assessments, do you
:20:53. > :20:55.accept Penny Mordaunt's word that it would be different and that it will
:20:56. > :21:00.not be incentivising payment by results? Performance management is
:21:01. > :21:04.key. Governments of all colours have not been good around contracting,
:21:05. > :21:10.both in terms of the design and in terms of performance managing it. We
:21:11. > :21:14.all need to get better. But I would like to know what we are going to do
:21:15. > :21:20.about access to work. With 1.3 million disabled people who want to
:21:21. > :21:27.work and only 35,000 able to get access to work to help them get back
:21:28. > :21:32.to work, the figures don't match. I am interested in the specifics
:21:33. > :21:36.around that. What about the comment Iain Duncan Smith made at the
:21:37. > :21:42.weekend. More than half of the work and pensions budget goes on
:21:43. > :21:47.benefits. He suggested it might be time to do away with the triple
:21:48. > :21:50.lock. Do you agree? I don't. As a chairman of the all party group on
:21:51. > :21:58.ageing, I would point out that the older you are, your cost of living
:21:59. > :22:01.goes up. Is it affordable? I think it is and I think it is important
:22:02. > :22:09.that we protect those benefits for pensioners. Do you agree?
:22:10. > :22:13.Absolutely. What about the welfare cap on how much the government
:22:14. > :22:17.spends overall on social security benefits? It is popular but it has
:22:18. > :22:22.been breached every year since it has been brought in. Is there any
:22:23. > :22:28.point continuing with it? It is important that we have welfare
:22:29. > :22:39.spending under control. But we also need to ensure that the reach of our
:22:40. > :22:43.programmes is as they need to be. Our green paper has not been
:22:44. > :22:46.published yet, both but there will be a focus on that. We have to
:22:47. > :22:52.ensure that not only the reach, but the quality of these programmes is
:22:53. > :22:58.there. The cuts that George Osborne introduced to work incentives,
:22:59. > :23:02.should they be reversed as Heidi Allen said? There are no plans to do
:23:03. > :23:07.that. What I would take to Heidi and others who are concerned about that
:23:08. > :23:14.is to look at the whole package for those individuals in terms of the
:23:15. > :23:18.living wage and their personal tax contributions. According to the
:23:19. > :23:22.Resolution Foundation, a single parent with a child under four
:23:23. > :23:26.working full-time on the minimum wage would receive ?3600 less. How
:23:27. > :23:31.does that help the families who are just managing, the very people
:23:32. > :23:34.Theresa May says she wants to help? I met that organisation last week
:23:35. > :23:37.and I would say that you have to look of a package of support we are
:23:38. > :23:42.giving people in the round, which includes those other things. This is
:23:43. > :23:46.outrageous. Universal credit was meant to be introduced to make work
:23:47. > :23:52.pay and we supported it on that basis. On average, 2.5 million
:23:53. > :23:55.families will be over ?2000 a year worse off. We now have a situation
:23:56. > :23:59.where there are more families who are in work living in poverty than
:24:00. > :24:04.there are workless families. This is a travesty and it has happened under
:24:05. > :24:07.this government's what. Two thirds of the 4 million children living in
:24:08. > :24:10.poverty are from working families. We must reverse these cuts if we are
:24:11. > :24:17.to have a meaningful impact. After the false start
:24:18. > :24:19.earlier this autumn, when Diane James lasted just 18 days
:24:20. > :24:22.in the job, Ukip's search Our political correspondent
:24:23. > :24:37.Alex Forsyth is keeping a close eye It seems that the nominees are
:24:38. > :24:39.dropping like fliess yeah. When this contest was announced, which was
:24:40. > :24:43.itself a surprise after Diane James did just 18 days in the job, there
:24:44. > :24:48.was a flurry of people who thought they would throw their hat in the
:24:49. > :24:51.ring for the next Ukip leader role. But as of today, when nominations
:24:52. > :24:55.have closed, we know of only four left in the running. This morning,
:24:56. > :24:59.the latest candidate to dropout was Raheem Kassam. He is a former aide
:25:00. > :25:03.to Nigel Farage, one of the first to declare that he would stand for the
:25:04. > :25:07.leadership this time. He only did his formal launch on Friday, a
:25:08. > :25:12.couple of days ago. Over the weekend in the papers, a he got a lot of
:25:13. > :25:17.coverage, so it came as a surprise when he decided to withdraw this
:25:18. > :25:21.morning. He said in his statement that he thought the path to victory
:25:22. > :25:24.was too narrow. Read into that that he thinks senior figures in the
:25:25. > :25:27.party are getting behind Paul Nuttall and so there was little
:25:28. > :25:31.chance of him winning. He also cited some anger at the media, saying
:25:32. > :25:36.journalists have turned up at his parents' home, and also fundraising.
:25:37. > :25:39.It was thought that the multimillionaire backer Arron Banks
:25:40. > :25:42.was behind Raheem Kassam, but he said in a statement this morning
:25:43. > :25:46.that they only had enough money to run a digital campaign based on
:25:47. > :25:50.Westminster. He didn't think that would be effective, so that was part
:25:51. > :25:53.of the reason he pulled out. I have spoken to Mr Kassam and he said he
:25:54. > :25:57.did still have the support of Arron Banks, but he did not want to take a
:25:58. > :26:01.lot of donations to come second, so he stood down. We will get the final
:26:02. > :26:07.list of candidates this afternoon and the hustings start tomorrow. Did
:26:08. > :26:10.he also imply that the system had been rigged? He said he had asked
:26:11. > :26:14.questions over the weekend over the integrity of the process, and he was
:26:15. > :26:19.not convinced by it. He does not go so far as to say the process has
:26:20. > :26:21.been rigged, but he implies that the weight of the party machine is
:26:22. > :26:27.getting behind Paul Nuttall, who some see as the frontrunner and the
:26:28. > :26:30.one potential unity candidate who can lead Ukip out of the mess they
:26:31. > :26:34.have been in for the past year. So I think Raheem Kassam's implication is
:26:35. > :26:37.that he didn't think he could win against the weight of the party
:26:38. > :26:45.machine and the senior figures who want Paul Nuttall to succeed. That
:26:46. > :26:49.is another reason he decided to pull out. So we are left with four names
:26:50. > :26:55.in the frame, but no final confirmation from Ukip yet as to the
:26:56. > :26:56.short list. The new leader is expected to be announced by the end
:26:57. > :26:57.of the month. We've been joined by one
:26:58. > :26:59.of the four remaining candidates to be Ukip leader,
:27:00. > :27:11.Peter Whittle, who is a member You must be pleased that Raheem
:27:12. > :27:14.Kassam has withdrawn. I am not particularly pleased, because I have
:27:15. > :27:22.known him for a long time and he is an exceptionally talented guy and a
:27:23. > :27:28.very individual guy. And what the leadership contests are showing this
:27:29. > :27:34.time is that this is the contest we should have been having all along.
:27:35. > :27:38.There are people of real merit. I would want as many people as
:27:39. > :27:45.possible to be on show. He is backing you, so you must be pleased.
:27:46. > :27:51.It is kind of him to back me. If you look at the people standing now,
:27:52. > :27:56.they are extremely talented people. That is what people have to know
:27:57. > :27:59.about our party. Do you have a chance of winning against Paul
:28:00. > :28:04.Nuttall and Suzanne Evans? Well, you don't enter these things with a
:28:05. > :28:10.counsel of despair. You have to resist questions like that. The fact
:28:11. > :28:15.is, I love this party. I have been in it for four years. I have been
:28:16. > :28:20.culture spokesman for three. This year, we had a real breakthrough and
:28:21. > :28:25.got two assembly members on to the London Assembly. People said we
:28:26. > :28:29.would never do that in London. But the party has gone through a series
:28:30. > :28:34.of convulsions, losing a leader after 18 days, which is careless to
:28:35. > :28:41.say the least. But Mr Kassam said he would be the Farage-ist candidate.
:28:42. > :28:45.Is that the mantle you are now going to assume? I have always been a
:28:46. > :28:52.supporter of Nigel. There is no revisionism going on there. Nigel is
:28:53. > :28:58.a towering figure. Isn't that why the party is having the problems it
:28:59. > :29:03.is, because he has gone? It was always going to be tough picking a
:29:04. > :29:07.new leader, because he is the most influential politician we have had
:29:08. > :29:18.in two generations. And no one will go back on his legacy. But we are
:29:19. > :29:25.now in a position where we can go onto a brilliant act two. Whatever
:29:26. > :29:29.that might be. It is very simple. Our first goal was the referendum.
:29:30. > :29:33.Our next goal will be to replace Labour as the real opposition in
:29:34. > :29:39.this country. What do you say to that, Debbie Abrahams? I would
:29:40. > :29:44.prefer to know more about your policies. Other than leaving Europe,
:29:45. > :29:55.I am not clear on what Ukip stands for, particularly on the NHS, which
:29:56. > :29:59.Paul Nuttall has slated. No. The fact is with Ukip, everyone knows
:30:00. > :30:03.what we stand for, which is unusual in politics these days. Then it is
:30:04. > :30:07.interesting that there are divisions within your party. Mr Kassam says he
:30:08. > :30:13.is worried about the integrity of the process and the leadership
:30:14. > :30:20.contest. Has he got a point? That is not a picture I recognise. It has
:30:21. > :30:26.all been done very fairly and professionally. So he is wrong about
:30:27. > :30:33.that? It is not a picture I recognise. The whole progress of the
:30:34. > :30:37.leadership campaign has been very smooth this time, because we know
:30:38. > :30:40.what is at stake and we want this party to be a success because there
:30:41. > :30:46.are people, particularly in the Midlands and the north... It is not
:30:47. > :30:49.just a question of being opportunist, but we have a duty to
:30:50. > :30:53.speak for those people. That is why I want us to be the official
:30:54. > :30:59.opposition in years to come. 2020 is the big star for that.
:31:00. > :31:06.You could say now the referendum has happened, there is no need for Ukip
:31:07. > :31:13.whatsoever and Labour could start to claw back some of the support they
:31:14. > :31:15.lost to Ukip. No chance of this. In terms of putting forward your
:31:16. > :31:20.individual vision for the party, do you think Ukip is ready to become
:31:21. > :31:25.the first UK wide political party with a gay leader? Of course, I was
:31:26. > :31:28.the only gay candidate in the mayoral race, for example. Not bad
:31:29. > :31:39.going for a supposedly homophobic party! My fellow Assembly Member is
:31:40. > :31:44.a black eye, we are the most diverse group on the London assembly! And
:31:45. > :31:48.this is despite claims of homophobia, have you experienced
:31:49. > :31:54.that? None at all. All of these things are very, very old charges,
:31:55. > :31:58.really. The fact is, what we have now in Britain are people who are
:31:59. > :32:02.not spoken for, they do not trust the Tories and they are quite right
:32:03. > :32:16.not to trust the Tories, and in fact I think there is no chance, whatever
:32:17. > :32:19.this speech is that Theresa May makes, that they will go over to the
:32:20. > :32:21.Tories, and Labour now look down on them and treat them with contempt.
:32:22. > :32:23.Although there have been defections from Ukip to the Tories since the
:32:24. > :32:26.referendum, as you know. Including Steven Woolfe and certainly thought
:32:27. > :32:30.about it, I know he's not now running in the contest. Are you
:32:31. > :32:34.going to stay to the very end of this competition? We are all in it
:32:35. > :32:41.to win it. So you will not be dropping out? I think the question
:32:42. > :32:44.is, people will see, looking at our hustings, which are happening
:32:45. > :32:47.tomorrow in London and then in Wales, two more next week, they will
:32:48. > :32:49.feed the breadth of vision and talent that there is in this party.
:32:50. > :32:52.Peter Whittle, thank you. How should the UK control
:32:53. > :32:59.immigration once we've left the EU? The official Vote Leave campaign
:33:00. > :33:01.argued for an Australian-style points-based system -
:33:02. > :33:03.but that's been ruled Others have suggested a new regime
:33:04. > :33:06.of work permits. My next guest has produced his own
:33:07. > :33:09.plan, which could include continuing freedom of movement for some
:33:10. > :33:13.categories of worker. Here's Sunder Katwala,
:33:14. > :33:15.director of the non-partisan think Sometimes, you sit down
:33:16. > :33:35.in a restaurant, starving hungry, but they've got nothing that
:33:36. > :33:39.sounds very appetising. When it comes to Brexit, the fixed
:33:40. > :33:45.menu seems very narrow indeed. Most of us would like a good trade
:33:46. > :33:48.deal with Europe for British business, but that always comes
:33:49. > :33:51.served with a liberal helping of free movement, which isn't
:33:52. > :33:53.to everyone's taste. And it seems the only alternative
:33:54. > :33:55.is thin gruel, the hardest, The first rule is, don't
:33:56. > :34:07.be rude to the waiter. But you also need an idea
:34:08. > :34:12.of what you want the kitchen If we can't reach a deal
:34:13. > :34:17.by the time the Article 50 clock runs out in 2019,
:34:18. > :34:20.that will count as a The logical outcome for immigration
:34:21. > :34:25.is that we would then apply the same rules for Europeans
:34:26. > :34:29.as we do for outside the EU. But we could make Europe a much more
:34:30. > :34:35.attractive offer than that, one that gives us the control over
:34:36. > :34:39.immigration that the public want, but is appealing enough to the EU
:34:40. > :34:42.that we can still get A new system could still offer
:34:43. > :34:53.preferential treatment Above a certain skill
:34:54. > :34:57.level, we could keep free People don't want fewer engineers
:34:58. > :35:08.or scientists to come. We also need some low-skilled
:35:09. > :35:10.migration too, to pick fruit But here, the public do
:35:11. > :35:14.want to control the scale So let's have quotas for low-skilled
:35:15. > :35:19.work based on what our economy needs, and offer those places
:35:20. > :35:22.to Europeans first as part Britain would get control over
:35:23. > :35:26.the pace of migration, but it's also an attractive offer
:35:27. > :35:31.to the EU and its workers too, certainly more so than if we don't
:35:32. > :35:36.get any deal at all. And if Europe says "non",
:35:37. > :35:38.we can always try another restaurant and offer a similar
:35:39. > :35:41.trade and migration deal with North American,
:35:42. > :35:43.Australian, Indian But we all know that Europe's got
:35:44. > :35:49.great food, so let's see what the Brussels
:35:50. > :36:07.chefs say first. Penny, Cuba on the Vote Leave side
:36:08. > :36:11.in the referendum campaign. We are going to continue to need skilled
:36:12. > :36:15.and unskilled Labour in the British economy after we finally leave the
:36:16. > :36:21.EU so, in your mind, what a quota for unskilled workers make sense?
:36:22. > :36:25.I'm not going to, as I said earlier, showed the Government's hand in
:36:26. > :36:29.terms of what it is going to be negotiating gone, but what I do
:36:30. > :36:34.think is important is that we get back full control. It was one of the
:36:35. > :36:39.key issues in the referendum campaign, and they tweaked something
:36:40. > :36:43.that quite a lot of politicians didn't figure out which was that
:36:44. > :36:48.unless you can control immigration you cannot govern properly or
:36:49. > :36:53.planned services. Control is one thing, control on immigration, to be
:36:54. > :36:57.able to choose the number and the sorts of migrant workers you would
:36:58. > :37:01.like he is not the same as just bringing down the numbers
:37:02. > :37:05.dramatically, the two are not mutually exclusive, so would you at
:37:06. > :37:09.least consider the idea of a quota for a number of unskilled workers to
:37:10. > :37:21.do some of the jobs that British workers have not come up until now,
:37:22. > :37:24.wanted to do? I think a range of issues will be looked at, the only
:37:25. > :37:26.thing that has been ruled out if the points system approach that
:37:27. > :37:28.Australia have taken. But this is a key issue in terms of the
:37:29. > :37:33.negotiations, and the Government isn't going to reveal its hand. That
:37:34. > :37:37.really was the nub of the referendum result, the message that came
:37:38. > :37:41.through loud and clear was, we want to do something about immigration. I
:37:42. > :37:44.think what we know is the public have lost confidence in how the
:37:45. > :37:47.Government has been handling immigration in this country in the
:37:48. > :37:50.last ten or 15 years, there were not the right preparations for the scale
:37:51. > :37:54.of immigration we have had and we have that promises to cut levels
:37:55. > :37:55.that have not been possible so people want especially some control
:37:56. > :38:11.over the scale and pace of unskilled immigration while at the
:38:12. > :38:13.same time they are positive about the contribution immigration can
:38:14. > :38:16.make to this country if it is better managed and controlled. You talk
:38:17. > :38:19.about quotas, how big would that be for unskilled workers? Our proposal
:38:20. > :38:22.is that we would have skilled free movement at levels people were happy
:38:23. > :38:29.about and would decide on an annual basis, something like the budget,
:38:30. > :38:32.talk to the health service, employers, people worried about the
:38:33. > :38:37.impact on communities, the Home Secretary comes to the house, set
:38:38. > :38:39.the quota and we agree what it is. Under the system Europeans would
:38:40. > :38:44.have access to the low skilled work before other people did if we made
:38:45. > :38:47.the deal with Europe. But it would be just another arbitrary number in
:38:48. > :38:50.the way the Government has set in the last Parliament and this
:38:51. > :38:55.Parliament and number to bring down net migration to tens of thousands,
:38:56. > :38:58.which it has consistently failed to do? Something went wrong with that
:38:59. > :39:02.target, which was not possible to meet, which was that the number came
:39:03. > :39:11.first as a sound bite and people scrambled around for policies to
:39:12. > :39:14.meet it and there were none to meet it while we were in the EU. If we
:39:15. > :39:16.have a process on, what other pressures on migration that create
:39:17. > :39:19.reductions, what are the needs for migration, how do we get the
:39:20. > :39:22.balance, you can set the number according to the feeling on the
:39:23. > :39:26.ground in economic sectors, in local areas, about how to match the
:39:27. > :39:32.pressures and gains of immigration, set the number with worked out
:39:33. > :39:37.policy. What about Labour's policy? Am I right in thinking there is not
:39:38. > :39:42.a policy in terms of setting any numbers on net migration or
:39:43. > :39:46.immigration? What we want to do is have a national conversation about
:39:47. > :39:51.immigration and what that means. We have had a national conversation! We
:39:52. > :39:54.had a general election in 2015 and then a referendum debate. The
:39:55. > :39:58.general election covered a host of things and the only question as I
:39:59. > :40:05.understand in the referendum was, do you want to be in Europe or out?
:40:06. > :40:08.There was a really complex result in terms of our understanding of the
:40:09. > :40:12.result and we need to have a more detailed understanding of what that
:40:13. > :40:16.means. As has been pointed out already, our care service, one in
:40:17. > :40:21.five care workers come from overseas, also our NHS staff, we
:40:22. > :40:25.would collapse without those skilled workers but also the less skilled.
:40:26. > :40:30.So you don't want to control the numbers in any way? I said we need
:40:31. > :40:34.to have a national conversation. But that does not answer the question,
:40:35. > :40:44.do you or don't you want to control the numbers? What we want, we need
:40:45. > :40:50.to recognise what migration does and how it supports and enables our
:40:51. > :40:53.economy, so we know there is an net benefit... People rejected that if
:40:54. > :41:00.you interpret the referendum result in that way? What was the question?
:41:01. > :41:04.They said they wanted control... No, they didn't, they said they wanted
:41:05. > :41:08.to be out of Europe and it is complex to understand why they
:41:09. > :41:11.wanted to leave, even in areas where there is no migration, people voted
:41:12. > :41:15.to leave. There are parts of the country where there were very low
:41:16. > :41:18.levels of immigration and they still voted to leave. I think there were
:41:19. > :41:22.many reasons why people voted to leave, for some it was about
:41:23. > :41:26.sovereignty, all sorts of other issues, but I think we are kidding
:41:27. > :41:32.ourselves if we don't accept that immigration was a major part. Excuse
:41:33. > :41:35.me for bringing this back to the Green paper today, there is an
:41:36. > :41:38.element of the Green paper that looks at this, one thing I am
:41:39. > :41:45.conscious of his opportunities to work overseas that disabled people
:41:46. > :41:50.have, even work experience, quite often they are not able to take them
:41:51. > :41:55.up because our support is not flexible enough to do that, so there
:41:56. > :41:58.is a lot we can do in this space for our own citizens. Do you think
:41:59. > :42:02.voters that were concerned with immigration are wrong? No, I
:42:03. > :42:08.understand, area such as Lincolnshire where there has been a
:42:09. > :42:11.real influx of migrants to support our agricultural industry, pressures
:42:12. > :42:16.have been put on local services. At the same time, those local services
:42:17. > :42:20.have been cut by this Government. Do you think British workers will get
:42:21. > :42:24.out into the field and help the seasonal fruit picking instead? I
:42:25. > :42:28.think we need to look at what, different areas need different
:42:29. > :42:34.things, so for example the Government cut the migrant fund and
:42:35. > :42:36.that needs to be reintroduced, we also need to make sure employment
:42:37. > :42:44.agencies don't undercut when they recruit from abroad, undercutting
:42:45. > :42:48.local Labour. There is evidence in terms of how successfully we can
:42:49. > :42:52.integrate communities into different areas, and that hasn't happened
:42:53. > :42:56.either. Some of the Labour MPs in the North have a very different view
:42:57. > :43:00.on immigration and they do think that something should be done about
:43:01. > :43:02.the numbers, even Keir Starmer in Shadow Cabinet said something has to
:43:03. > :43:09.be done about immigration. Is he wrong? No, he's not, he said
:43:10. > :43:14.something has to be done about immigration... He meant bringing
:43:15. > :43:18.down the numbers. It is about how we make sure the economy is supported
:43:19. > :43:21.by migration but also make sure communities are not put under
:43:22. > :43:25.pressure and there are ways that we can do that which has not happened
:43:26. > :43:28.unfortunately in the last few years. How confident are you that both
:43:29. > :43:31.parties but particularly the Government will take on all consider
:43:32. > :43:36.the sort of scheme you have put forward? I think there is potential
:43:37. > :43:41.pragmatic consensus here, both sides have said something important about
:43:42. > :43:44.control on the pace and scale of immigration, openness to the
:43:45. > :43:48.immigration that allows us to get a good deal, so we think a good deal
:43:49. > :43:52.could converge around this proposal. We have heard a lot about red lines
:43:53. > :43:56.on deals people don't want, if we are going to have a sharper debate
:43:57. > :43:59.we have got to hear ideas about practical proposals that we could
:44:00. > :44:11.put on the table and that would be attractive to a consensus in Britain
:44:12. > :44:14.and that I think is a better deal for Europe than we will get it we
:44:15. > :44:16.have a failure on both sides and no deal at all. Are you working closely
:44:17. > :44:18.with ministers? We will speak to ministers on all sides, there are
:44:19. > :44:22.pragmatic voices will remain that will have to come up with a real
:44:23. > :44:27.policy that works for the 52% and the 48%. When do you think the Prime
:44:28. > :44:31.Minister will be able to deliver on her pledge for net migration in the
:44:32. > :44:38.tens of thousands? Ultimately I think that will happen after we
:44:39. > :44:42.leave the EU. So in 2019? We will have to see what system is put in
:44:43. > :44:46.place and precisely what I think needs to happen is the focus on what
:44:47. > :44:50.the economy needs, what skills we need, how many people we need, and
:44:51. > :44:55.that will determine the numbers, that it will... But it will be after
:44:56. > :44:58.the EU that we will get back for control? Thank you.
:44:59. > :45:01.Now let's have a look at what else is coming up this week.
:45:02. > :45:03.The Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer is hoping to ask
:45:04. > :45:05.an urgent question in the Commons this afternoon about
:45:06. > :45:09.The Japanese car giant announced last Thursday that they would build
:45:10. > :45:11.two new models at their Sunderland factory after receiving "assurances"
:45:12. > :45:15.Labour MP Keith Vaz could have his entry onto the Justice Committee
:45:16. > :45:23.The Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen will try and trigger a Commons vote
:45:24. > :45:27.Keith Vaz resigned as chairman of the Home Affairs Committee last
:45:28. > :45:29.month after newspaper allegations that he had paid
:45:30. > :45:35.On Wednesday, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will face
:45:36. > :45:39.As always, we'll broadcast the session in full here
:45:40. > :45:44.Later that day, around 70 Labour MPs will launch a centre-left group
:45:45. > :45:53.The MPs behind it say their aim is to help the party produce
:45:54. > :45:57.On Thursday, the Bank of England Governor Mark Carney
:45:58. > :45:58.will deliver the quarterly inflation report.
:45:59. > :46:02.That's the Bank's verdict on how the British economy is performing.
:46:03. > :46:06.It's thought that Mark Carney could use the opportunity to end
:46:07. > :46:08.speculation about whether he will continue in the job
:46:09. > :46:15.Joining me from outside on College Green are the deputy
:46:16. > :46:17.political editor Jason Groves and Martha Gill, who writes
:46:18. > :46:31.Jason Groves, what do you think Mark Carney will do? I think he will
:46:32. > :46:36.stay. He is telling friends he wants to stay and although we understand
:46:37. > :46:40.that he has personal reasons for possibly wanting to return to
:46:41. > :46:44.Canada, he is in a job that pays him a lot of money and he says he wants
:46:45. > :46:50.to see Brexit through. In many ways, he is a lucky man to be able to make
:46:51. > :46:54.his own decision. There are quite a few in government who would be happy
:46:55. > :46:57.to see the back of him. But at this moment, there is a feeling that it
:46:58. > :47:02.might spook the markets for him to go. I think he will stay. Martha,
:47:03. > :47:07.how much fuss will there be from the Tory MPs who have felt Mark Carney
:47:08. > :47:12.overstepped the mark in the EU referendum? Will they make a fuss if
:47:13. > :47:16.he stays? Probably, but if he goes, they will make even more fuss. They
:47:17. > :47:24.will use it as an opportunity to jump on these accusations that he
:47:25. > :47:28.torched the economy down and made incorrect calls before Brexit. If he
:47:29. > :47:34.went, it would certainly cause uncertainty in the markets, adding
:47:35. > :47:40.to the stress caused by Brexit. Let's talk about Nissan and those
:47:41. > :47:43.assurances. A letter was enough to persuade Nissan to continue
:47:44. > :47:48.investing in the north-east. What was promised, do you think? We got a
:47:49. > :47:51.good outline of what was promised from Greg Clark yesterday. There
:47:52. > :47:53.were three areas where the government offered the kind of
:47:54. > :47:58.grants you might expect a government to offer any big business,
:47:59. > :48:05.investing, training and research. Then there was this extra area where
:48:06. > :48:09.the real political debate is now, in that he has offered them an
:48:10. > :48:11.assurance that they can continue trading without tariffs and without
:48:12. > :48:17.bureaucratic impediments. Nobody quite knows what that means. We
:48:18. > :48:20.don't know who is applies to. Interestingly, the letter doesn't
:48:21. > :48:24.say what happens if the government can't deliver that. At the moment,
:48:25. > :48:27.they can't guarantee it. Negotiations with Brussels haven't
:48:28. > :48:33.even started, and we are already making promises about the outcome.
:48:34. > :48:37.Presumably, if that cannot be upheld, the idea of no tariffs being
:48:38. > :48:43.put on car-makers like Nissan, there would have to be compensation which
:48:44. > :48:46.would be taxpayer funded. That is the key question. That is what I
:48:47. > :48:54.suspect Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, will be grilling
:48:55. > :48:58.Greg Clark on today. I suspect he will also be interested in whether
:48:59. > :49:05.there are sector by sector deals, because Greg Clark was only talking
:49:06. > :49:07.about the car industry yesterday. It would be extraordinary for the
:49:08. > :49:13.government to monitor deals sector by sector. I suspect Keir Starmer
:49:14. > :49:16.will want to find out whether all of Britain's other key industries will
:49:17. > :49:20.get the same kind of deals that the car industry seems to be getting. We
:49:21. > :49:24.will be listening to Business Secretary Greg Clark when he talks
:49:25. > :49:29.about these things. Let's move onto Keith Vaz, the Labour MP currently
:49:30. > :49:33.under investigation. This issue has been raised by Andrew Bridge, the
:49:34. > :49:36.Conservative MP, because Keith Vaz wants to take his place on the
:49:37. > :49:42.Justice committee. Is he going to get anywhere with his opposition?
:49:43. > :49:45.Well, Andrew tells me he has secured a vote in the Commons tonight. We
:49:46. > :49:52.will have to see what the numbers are. It is an unusual situation. For
:49:53. > :49:56.a lot of members of the public, they will be surprised that a man in
:49:57. > :49:58.Keith Vaz's position is going for a seat on the Justice committee at
:49:59. > :50:02.this time when he has all this hanging over him. He has had to step
:50:03. > :50:05.down from the home affairs committee. I suspect if he had been
:50:06. > :50:09.on the Justice committee, he would have had to step back from that. It
:50:10. > :50:13.is extraordinary that he is going for this. My gut feeling is that he
:50:14. > :50:22.will get on. But we will have to wait and see. Martha Gill, what do
:50:23. > :50:27.you think will happen? I agree. These things tend to go through
:50:28. > :50:31.smoothly. It would be unusual for it to be blocked at this stage, but it
:50:32. > :50:37.is also unusual for somebody involved in ongoing investigations
:50:38. > :50:39.like Keith Vaz to get onto such a prestigious select committee. We
:50:40. > :50:44.will see. Thank you both very much. As we've just been discussing,
:50:45. > :50:47.Labour have secured what's known as an "urgent question" in the House
:50:48. > :50:49.of Commons this afternoon to discuss the detail
:50:50. > :50:52.of assurances given to Nissan by the Business Secretary Greg
:50:53. > :50:54.Clark, which led to the car manufacturer committing to continue
:50:55. > :50:56.production of its cars It's of no interest for there
:50:57. > :51:03.to be tariff barriers to the Continent and vice versa,
:51:04. > :51:07.so I said that our objective would be to ensure that we have
:51:08. > :51:11.continued access to the markets without tariffs and without
:51:12. > :51:13.bureaucratic impediments. And that is how we will approach
:51:14. > :51:32.those negotiations. Should he just publish the letter? I
:51:33. > :51:37.don't think so, but he has been open about the discussions he has had
:51:38. > :51:42.with Nissan and I am sure he will say more in the meeting later today.
:51:43. > :51:51.This is quite normal, and it would be weird if a business didn't use
:51:52. > :51:58.Brexit as a way of furthering its own aims. Unsuccessfully in the case
:51:59. > :52:07.of Nissan. Other car-makers will be saying, are we going to get the same
:52:08. > :52:12.deal? We want to reassure any company that is periodically
:52:13. > :52:18.reviewing staying in the UK or relocating that it is best investing
:52:19. > :52:23.here. Of course, but what has been dangled in front of Nissan to make
:52:24. > :52:26.them stay? Reports have said they were considering leaving, so what
:52:27. > :52:32.did the government promise and will the taxpayer have to pay? This is
:52:33. > :52:41.really about ensuring that business has confidence in this government.
:52:42. > :52:46.Is this a good idea, to do sector by sector deals, where you could have
:52:47. > :52:51.free trade agreements for the car industry, for example, to ensure
:52:52. > :52:57.that companies like Nissan stay put? We want to see the detail of that.
:52:58. > :53:04.But is it a good idea? I am not sure, because I have not seen the
:53:05. > :53:08.detail. By publishing the letter, we get an opportunity to analyse
:53:09. > :53:12.whether it was a good idea or not. Well, he has said quite a lot. He
:53:13. > :53:20.said there would not be tariffs placed on goods. Is that an
:53:21. > :53:25.assurance enough for you? There was an interview last night from the
:53:26. > :53:29.boss of Nissan which was implying something slightly different. Let's
:53:30. > :53:33.take Greg Clark at his word that there would not be any tariffs that
:53:34. > :53:40.would be put on car manufacturers when exporting. Would that be a good
:53:41. > :53:45.deal? Obviously, we want to make sure that companies in the UK can
:53:46. > :53:53.trade as freely as possible with Europe. But we need to see the
:53:54. > :53:57.detail. If Nissan are now getting a sweetener through the taxpayer, why
:53:58. > :54:04.couldn't we provide it to another business? This sweetener might be
:54:05. > :54:10.that in the end, if we can't keep that assurance of error free trade,
:54:11. > :54:15.we will compensate you. Would that be all right for the government said
:54:16. > :54:21.taxpayers will fund compensation if we cannot keep our promise of tariff
:54:22. > :54:26.free trade? Greg Clark has been quite straightforward in his
:54:27. > :54:32.interview yesterday. We don't know about that. Well, he did say there
:54:33. > :54:40.was not money dangled in order to secure them remaining in the UK. As
:54:41. > :54:46.you would expect from someone who supported the Leave camp, I think
:54:47. > :54:49.common sense will prevail. I think businesses in Europe will want to
:54:50. > :54:54.trade with us as we do with them. And some of the obstacles that are
:54:55. > :54:56.being floated will not come to pass. Let's see what happens.
:54:57. > :54:59.So, ever wanted to keep track of how your MP has been
:55:00. > :55:03.Whether they toe the party line, or are a serial rebel?
:55:04. > :55:04.It's all information that's recorded, but now, thanks
:55:05. > :55:07.to a new app launched by Parliament called Commons Vote,
:55:08. > :55:09.you can get hold of it almost immediately
:55:10. > :55:14.Ellie has been looking at how it all works.
:55:15. > :55:17.It's what happens when the Speaker needs MPs
:55:18. > :55:25.And this bell rings to let everyone know.
:55:26. > :55:30.If I wanted to vote against whatever was being proposed, I would get up
:55:31. > :55:36.out of the chamber and head to the no lobby, which is that way.
:55:37. > :55:42.If I wanted to vote in favour, I'd go that way to the ayes.
:55:43. > :55:45.Once a vote or division is called, MPs have eight minutes
:55:46. > :55:49.to get from the chamber or wherever they are.
:55:50. > :55:52.Then I would get to the desks here and work out which queue
:55:53. > :56:06.But things recently have changed, so what's different?
:56:07. > :56:08.Until earlier this year, members' names were recorded
:56:09. > :56:10.on pen and paper and when they came through,
:56:11. > :56:13.a clerk recorded their name with a marker pen.
:56:14. > :56:16.Now we've changed to a system of recording names by tablet device,
:56:17. > :56:19.we have the data in a digital format.
:56:20. > :56:22.So it's quite a traditional process, with a modern twist.
:56:23. > :56:25.Everything else has stayed the same as for many decades.
:56:26. > :56:27.Members still walk through the lobbies,
:56:28. > :56:30.but the way we record votes has changed.
:56:31. > :56:33.And that's useful for the clever technical people, who've come up
:56:34. > :56:47.So we have a nice copy of Hansard, how it was traditionally recorded.
:56:48. > :56:53.We've got a list of all the votes and we can scroll through them,
:56:54. > :56:55.have a look at what has gone on in the past.
:56:56. > :56:58.And we can see that there were 195 ayes and 280 noes.
:56:59. > :57:01.If you choose the noes, you can get a list of all those
:57:02. > :57:06.We can also look at all the members, so you can scroll through
:57:07. > :57:08.or search for their name, and we can choose a member.
:57:09. > :57:11.If we choose Luciana Berger, we can see how she has voted
:57:12. > :57:14.in every division, and you get the count of the division as well,
:57:15. > :57:17.so you can quickly see what side she was on.
:57:18. > :57:19.Everything that goes on in parliament will continue
:57:20. > :57:23.It just means you can get the information on the move.
:57:24. > :57:35.I can see how that will help us journalists. Will you get more
:57:36. > :57:39.hassle from your constituency and voters if they think you haven't
:57:40. > :57:43.voted the way you should? I think anything that helps voters to know
:57:44. > :57:47.what is going on and about the process is a good thing. It would
:57:48. > :57:52.just mean they get it a little quicker than they have in the past.
:57:53. > :57:57.Is this part of the attempt at modernisation processes in the
:57:58. > :58:00.Commons? About time. I think it will be great. Constituents want to know
:58:01. > :58:05.the information. I can get it quicker. I like the idea of them
:58:06. > :58:08.wandering around with their apps. There's just time before we go
:58:09. > :58:12.to find out the answer to our quiz. B) Ed Balls' mad
:58:13. > :58:20.professor on Strictly? C) The wails of former
:58:21. > :58:23.Prime Minister Viscount Goderich - known as the "Blubberer"
:58:24. > :58:25.for his tendency to cry while in office, or d) The feline
:58:26. > :58:28.ghost of former chief mouser, So Debbie and Penny,
:58:29. > :58:37.what's the correct answer? I am going to go for the cigar
:58:38. > :58:42.smoker. I will go for the cigar smoke as well. You are both right,
:58:43. > :58:45.although I think we may have shown the picture too early! It is the
:58:46. > :58:46.cigar smoke, not Ed Balls. Thanks, Penny, Debbie
:58:47. > :58:51.and all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting
:58:52. > :58:54.over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow
:58:55. > :59:06.with all the big political to commemorate the Africans
:59:07. > :59:09.who were here.