:00:37. > :00:38.Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:42.Change is in the air, says Theresa May, as she warns
:00:43. > :00:44.businesses they have to behave responsibly if they want
:00:45. > :00:49.She's been addressing business leaders at the CBI's annual
:00:50. > :00:51.conference this morning, but has she already backed away
:00:52. > :00:57.from controversial plans to put workers on company boards?
:00:58. > :00:59.Jeremy Corbyn accuses the Government of fanning the flames
:01:00. > :01:01.of fear over immigration, and says he won't
:01:02. > :01:07.But will his own policy win over the voters?
:01:08. > :01:10.There's been a surprise result as French voters choose
:01:11. > :01:12.the centre-right candidate for presidential
:01:13. > :01:19.So is this man on course to win, and what does it mean
:01:20. > :01:25.And Donald Trump thinks Scotland's a special place,
:01:26. > :01:28.but it's not just because he owns a golf course there.
:01:29. > :01:34.We'll be talking about the Scottish roots of the President-elect.
:01:35. > :01:39.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:40. > :01:41.of the programme today it's the Conservative
:01:42. > :01:44.MEP Daniel Hannan - he's been described as the man
:01:45. > :01:46.who brought you Brexit - and the Labour MP Cat Smith -
:01:47. > :01:49.she only entered Parliament last year, but she's already joined
:01:50. > :01:51.Jeremy Corbyn's top team as Shadow Minister
:01:52. > :01:57.First today, let's turn to France, where ex-President Nicolas Sarkozy
:01:58. > :02:02.has been knocked out of a primary to choose the presidential
:02:03. > :02:04.candidate of the centre-right Republican party.
:02:05. > :02:10.The surprise result has put Francois Fillon,
:02:11. > :02:12.who served as Mr Sarkozy's prime minister, in poll position to win
:02:13. > :02:17.He faces Alain Juppe, another ex-Prime Minister
:02:18. > :02:23.The winner will compete in next year's presidential election,
:02:24. > :02:26.and if the polls are to be believed they are likely to end up competing
:02:27. > :02:28.for France's top job against far-right leader Marine Le
:02:29. > :02:32.Well, to find out more we're joined by our correspondent
:02:33. > :02:45.How much of an upset was this? Well, it was supposed to be for many in
:02:46. > :02:49.Cirque du Soleil's circle. The -- Sexual Assault Referral Centre
:02:50. > :02:54.circle, some thought he would never come back, he had given reasons for
:02:55. > :02:58.why for example that he didn't appear prompt innocent in politics
:02:59. > :03:01.after he served as President during the time of the global financial
:03:02. > :03:09.crisis, his point he was making was, he was at a loss because of events
:03:10. > :03:12.he could not control. He tried to become President in gone 12. He says
:03:13. > :03:19.he didn't go as right-wing as he wanted to. He went all out. Some
:03:20. > :03:22.would see him taking an approach of Marine Le Pen, looking at Donald
:03:23. > :03:28.Trump as well. He said things he like he wanted to see the banning of
:03:29. > :03:32.the burqa on the beaches of France, the banning of the anybody cab in
:03:33. > :03:35.school, if you refused to eat pork you wouldn't be able to have special
:03:36. > :03:41.school meals as children through school. He had taken what should
:03:42. > :03:44.woman say, particular nationalistic, pop his tick approach and it didn't
:03:45. > :03:49.work. We have the two men, Francois Fillon, a. Toer Prime Minister who
:03:50. > :03:54.wants to make his own reformed and Alain Juppe. The older politician a
:03:55. > :03:59.former Prime Minister. What about the five referendums that have been
:04:00. > :04:03.suggested, what are they? Well, this is something that Francois Fillon
:04:04. > :04:06.wants to see, that he said he wants to see from everything from a
:04:07. > :04:11.referendum when it comes to immigration, when it comes to the
:04:12. > :04:15.domestic issues like the budget, and he has questioned the idea of an
:04:16. > :04:19.agreement with the UK, the current situation when it comes to call lay
:04:20. > :04:24.and the border police, British border police being on the French
:04:25. > :04:28.side. These are some of the different reforms, the five
:04:29. > :04:33.referendums he wans to see and he is notable Francois Fillon, he takes a
:04:34. > :04:38.more pro-Russian stance than any of the other EU leaders, he criticised
:04:39. > :04:41.Nato for saying it was meddling, exacerbating the problem with
:04:42. > :04:45.Russia, so I think he will be a different face, and a face that many
:04:46. > :04:48.would see if he were to make it the through as President, as perhaps
:04:49. > :04:53.unpredictable on that front as Donald Trump, and he is somebody who
:04:54. > :04:58.would, with links to the UK who has been called a Thatcherite. Someone
:04:59. > :05:03.who wants to cut the civil service, he wants to reduce what he sees are
:05:04. > :05:06.the inflexibility of the French working week, so make overtime
:05:07. > :05:10.possible, the talk of working on a Sunday as well. It so there is a lot
:05:11. > :05:15.of changes he wants to make, whereas who he is up against next Sunday,
:05:16. > :05:20.the run off for their party in the Presidential debate is going to be
:05:21. > :05:24.Alain Juppe, seen as more safe pair of hands but perhaps some would say
:05:25. > :05:27.that is his curse as well. Thank you very much.
:05:28. > :05:33.Do you welcome the fact Francois Fillon topped that poll and could
:05:34. > :05:39.face Marine Le Pen rather than Alain Juppe. Yes, he will be what France
:05:40. > :05:45.needs. He is a reformer. The fact of France is the French state has not
:05:46. > :05:50.had a balanced budget since 1974. No-one has really tried to tackle
:05:51. > :05:55.that. You know, we have an immediate interest, in the prosperity of
:05:56. > :05:59.France. They are friends and allies and prosperous neighbours make good
:06:00. > :06:04.customer, I am cautiously optimistic, it threw up the result
:06:05. > :06:08.that was needed. Do you think he can beat Marine Le Pen? I hope, so
:06:09. > :06:12.because Marine Le Pen has set her face against any reform, apart from
:06:13. > :06:16.what she says about migration and so on, she is also well to the left of
:06:17. > :06:21.the socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring pensions
:06:22. > :06:27.and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are separated by a
:06:28. > :06:31.short stretch of water. France in economic collapse is bound to be bad
:06:32. > :06:36.for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat to the left of the
:06:37. > :06:38.socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring pensions
:06:39. > :06:41.and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are separated by a
:06:42. > :06:44.short stretch of water. France in economic collapse is bound to be bad
:06:45. > :06:47.for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat Smith, do you think to
:06:48. > :06:49.the left of the socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring
:06:50. > :06:52.pensions and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are
:06:53. > :06:54.separated by a short stretch of water. France in economic collapse
:06:55. > :06:57.is bound to be bad for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat
:06:58. > :07:00.Smith, do you think a "Quick divorce account "Would be good for the UK?
:07:01. > :07:02.It would be better to have a full two-year negotiation, I don't think
:07:03. > :07:05.a quick divorce to use the quote would be necessarily the advantage
:07:06. > :07:08.of the UK, what has been thrown up in the French elections is that this
:07:09. > :07:09.is the time to not be an establishment candidate, I think
:07:10. > :07:12.that the voters across western Europe are looking for outsiders and
:07:13. > :07:14.people that are perceived to be not part of that political class.
:07:15. > :07:18.Whoever is selected has a real fight on their hands. You think Marine Le
:07:19. > :07:20.Pen has a good chance? I am afraid I think she has a very good chance and
:07:21. > :07:23.we need the strongest candidate possible. She is not good news for
:07:24. > :07:26.Europe. Who would be the strongest candidate possible? To be honest, I
:07:27. > :07:29.don't know and I would like to back any candidate, that is for the
:07:30. > :07:32.French to decide. The socialists don't seem to be in... They have
:07:33. > :07:38.withdrawn. But the fact that Francois Fillon got a massive vote,
:07:39. > :07:41.he won pretty much every region of Metropolitan France, suggested that
:07:42. > :07:47.he does have some appeal. That is encunning. The primaries have had a
:07:48. > :07:51.bad time since Donald Trump. So have referendums if you are the person
:07:52. > :07:55.calling them. If we think of David Cameron, he lost his own referendum.
:07:56. > :07:58.Do you think they are a good idea to put the sort of referendums that
:07:59. > :08:03.Francois Fillon is suggesting? Of the people who call them. I am not
:08:04. > :08:06.saying the right or wrong way. Referendums are a good idea. It is
:08:07. > :08:09.better to trust people. In way you have made the point. Occasionally
:08:10. > :08:14.politicians don't get the answer they want. Well that is healthy,
:08:15. > :08:19.that is necessary in a system, so otherwise we have an o towards I can
:08:20. > :08:24.with a tiny number get to decide everything. Countries that have
:08:25. > :08:27.referendums and make the most use do well, at the top of list is
:08:28. > :08:29.well, at the top of list is Switzerland.
:08:30. > :08:33.The question for today is what appears on the cushions in
:08:34. > :08:48.Or d) An embroidered image of the Mexican border?
:08:49. > :08:51.At the end of the show Cat and Dan will give us the correct answer.
:08:52. > :08:53.It's the Confederation of British Industry's annual
:08:54. > :08:56.conference today in central London, and both Theresa May and Jeremy
:08:57. > :09:00.The Prime Minister set out her stall to business leaders this morning,
:09:01. > :09:02.and Jeremy Corbyn will appear in front of delegates later.
:09:03. > :09:04.While previous Conservative leaders have sought to reduce state
:09:05. > :09:07.intervention, Theresa May has made it clear she intends to, in her
:09:08. > :09:17.So let's look at some of the business policies that have
:09:18. > :09:27.been rolling off the Government's production line so far.
:09:28. > :09:31.Today at the CBI, she offered business a "grand bargain",
:09:32. > :09:33.proposing investment and tax cuts in exchange for help
:09:34. > :09:42.dealing with the worst excesses of capitalism.
:09:43. > :09:44.Mrs May said the Government is offering an industrial strategy
:09:45. > :09:47.that will include an extra ?2 billion a year by 2020 to support
:09:48. > :09:53.She also pledged to ensure that the corporation tax rate
:09:54. > :09:57.But in return, she said business also needs to change and that
:09:58. > :10:00.a small minority "appear to game the system and work to a different
:10:01. > :10:08.Her plans to reform capitalism include representing works
:10:09. > :10:10.on company boards and giving shareholders a binding
:10:11. > :10:23.Politicians don't get the answer they want. Well that is healthy,
:10:24. > :10:26.that is necessary in a system, so otherwise we have an o towards I can
:10:27. > :10:28.with a tiny number get to decide everything. Countries that have
:10:29. > :10:30.referendums and make the most use do well, at the top of list is
:10:31. > :10:32.Switzerland. Jeremy Corbyn will say more state intervention is needed.
:10:33. > :10:34.which would see a Labour government borrow hundreds of billions
:10:35. > :10:40.of pounds to invest in long-term infrastructure projects.
:10:41. > :10:42.If we support free markets, value capitalism, and at business,
:10:43. > :10:49.and we do, we must do everything we can to keep faith with them.
:10:50. > :10:51.And with not enough people feeling that they share
:10:52. > :10:54.in the wealth created by capitalism, and with the recent behaviour
:10:55. > :10:56.of a small minority of businesses and business leaders undermining
:10:57. > :10:59.the reputation of the corporate world as a whole, the way to keep
:11:00. > :11:15.Well, we're joined now by the director general
:11:16. > :11:24.Thank you for joining us Theresa May says she is offering the business
:11:25. > :11:30.community a grand bargain, is that good from your perspective? Well, we
:11:31. > :11:34.hugely welcome today what is a really pro enterprise speech, that
:11:35. > :11:37.is setting out a vision for the UK, which put innovation and invention
:11:38. > :11:41.at the heart, is talking about the value of free market, we welcome
:11:42. > :11:45.that, at the same time, yes, the Prime Minister is talking about a
:11:46. > :11:48.social contract, businesses recognise that, and are here to rise
:11:49. > :11:53.to the challenge of making that work. But an extra ?2 billion a year
:11:54. > :11:58.by 2020 of investment in research and development, you are going to
:11:59. > :12:02.welcome that, but it is really a grand bargain, I mean the Labour
:12:03. > :12:08.Party is offering ?500 billion over ten years? Well, I think that what
:12:09. > :12:12.she has set out this morning is something which is, she talks about
:12:13. > :12:18.industrial strategy which is about creating the enable hers for a
:12:19. > :12:24.strong economy, raising productivity across the UK. The innovation part
:12:25. > :12:27.is part of that. The skills agenda, infrastructure, connecting our
:12:28. > :12:31.cities in the north and south, these are all other parts of the picture,
:12:32. > :12:37.and we look forward to the Autumn Statement on Wednesday to see a bit
:12:38. > :12:42.more of that plan. You are happy with the ?2 billion figure although
:12:43. > :12:47.not starting until 2012. A bargain is a bargain, is it two way. Theresa
:12:48. > :12:53.May says some businesses play to a different set of rules, is that
:12:54. > :12:58.fair? There are some businesses that are not playing straight. I think it
:12:59. > :13:03.is up to all businesses to call that out. Because it does affect and
:13:04. > :13:07.tarnish the reputation of the many, so, this is something we welcome, I
:13:08. > :13:13.think it is an area where businesses can step up, take a lead, and reform
:13:14. > :13:16.in areas where it can be, we can prevent the actions of the two, of
:13:17. > :13:20.the few from tarnishing the reputation of the many. Which
:13:21. > :13:25.businesses in your mind are not being straight, if you like, to use
:13:26. > :13:29.her language? Well, I am not going to name names but it was welcome in
:13:30. > :13:33.the Prime Minister's speech that she recognised it was the few, and that
:13:34. > :13:39.it is the majority of, are good citizens, they are investing in
:13:40. > :13:43.community, they are sainting, they are creating jobs so it is
:13:44. > :13:48.recognition of the few, and that is what we need to address and the
:13:49. > :13:51.corporate governance green paper is something we welcome. I think people
:13:52. > :13:54.might say it is easy to say there are some businesses that don't play
:13:55. > :13:59.by the rules and they need to be called out. If nobody is going to
:14:00. > :14:05.name who they are or the areas in which the rules are not being
:14:06. > :14:10.adhered to, do they exist? Is that sort of false bogey man put up here
:14:11. > :14:15.unless you are prepared to say who they are? I don't think, so we have
:14:16. > :14:19.strong rule, we have very good corporate governance, it recognised
:14:20. > :14:23.world the round as being strong, but where that happens, I think it is,
:14:24. > :14:27.it is an important thing, to have the right mechanisms in place, and
:14:28. > :14:31.by and large we really do, it is one of the areas I think the UK has seen
:14:32. > :14:36.globally as being strong, but there is more do, we know there are issues
:14:37. > :14:39.round trust and the reputation of business, this is part of the
:14:40. > :14:44.progress towards fixing it. We welcome it and we will be engaging
:14:45. > :14:47.very strongly on the Government's proposals in the green paper. Will
:14:48. > :14:52.be that lot of talk about forcing companies to have workers sitting on
:14:53. > :14:57.their boards, but it looks as if today Theresa May has rode back from
:14:58. > :14:58.that, he is is saying the views of workers should be represented. Do
:14:59. > :15:11.you remember that? This was about the representation of
:15:12. > :15:17.workers and consumers's voices. Some companies do welcome that, we
:15:18. > :15:20.have spoken to many. For some, it is the right model but it is not the
:15:21. > :15:25.only way. We welcome that the Prime Minister
:15:26. > :15:28.will set out a range of options of which that will be one, some
:15:29. > :15:35.companies will welcome that. One thing which is right is where
:15:36. > :15:40.companies engage really well, they are more productive. That is what we
:15:41. > :15:44.need to aim to achieve. The implication was that there would
:15:45. > :15:49.be a promise to put workers on company boards, it sounds like you
:15:50. > :15:53.pleased there won't be any element of compulsion or that it will be the
:15:54. > :15:58.only way to have their views represented.
:15:59. > :16:01.A range of options is a really good idea.
:16:02. > :16:07.Brexit, if it becomes clearer than now that the UK will pull out of the
:16:08. > :16:11.single market and Customs union, will you still welcomed the grand
:16:12. > :16:15.bargain Theresa May has put forward today?
:16:16. > :16:19.We had to wait and see. Businesses would like more certainty. We
:16:20. > :16:23.understand why it is not possible at the moment. We would like to see
:16:24. > :16:26.transitional arrangements so companies most affected have time to
:16:27. > :16:32.prepare. One thing we welcome today is she
:16:33. > :16:36.has said when she can say something she will.
:16:37. > :16:39.That is what businesses need to know, that they are being listened
:16:40. > :16:47.to. When will that happen? Well, we are
:16:48. > :16:51.looking over the next few months, triggering Article 50 by the end of
:16:52. > :16:58.March, the timetable the Government has set out. We look forward to when
:16:59. > :17:01.they have something to say. The uncertainty is affecting investment
:17:02. > :17:07.and will be important for dad to be a plan quickly.
:17:08. > :17:13.Every indication has shown that they are favouring pulling out of the
:17:14. > :17:18.single market, in a way, they do not see leaving the EU unless we pull
:17:19. > :17:23.out of the single market and the customs union, how worried would you
:17:24. > :17:28.be by that? Language is important. We talk about
:17:29. > :17:33.barrier free access to the single market which matters for businesses,
:17:34. > :17:38.to trade without tariffs, nontariff barriers around regulation. It is an
:17:39. > :17:42.important principle and we want this to be set out as an important
:17:43. > :17:48.priority. The customs union is a trade-off
:17:49. > :17:55.between, we would like to do new free trade deals with India, China,
:17:56. > :18:00.US. The implications for red tape at Borders is significant sum.
:18:01. > :18:06.What we are saying to Government is, consult with business, you will hear
:18:07. > :18:09.different views and the evidence. Theresa May has been back on her
:18:10. > :18:11.plans to have workers on company boards. She is offering only ?2
:18:12. > :18:24.billion. By 2020. Is this a paltry offering?
:18:25. > :18:28.No, she is saying the right things. We have a protectionist European
:18:29. > :18:32.Commission and White House. Somebody needs to be making the case of free
:18:33. > :18:37.trade, free accommodation. That will be the UK. She is right
:18:38. > :18:42.that the climate in which to make that case is not friendly.
:18:43. > :18:47.The extraordinary thing is there has never been a better time to be a
:18:48. > :18:52.human being, extreme poverty has fallen down to 8% because African
:18:53. > :18:58.and Asian countries have joined the global market. These idealistic
:18:59. > :19:02.people are picketing G7 meetings, so she needs to make the argument in a
:19:03. > :19:09.way that shows free trade is not about benefiting big culprits but
:19:10. > :19:12.poverty alleviation, social justice, conflict resolution.
:19:13. > :19:21.Many think the opposite, that they had been left behind. It is the
:19:22. > :19:25.reality. Cat Smith, where do you stand in terms of this industrial
:19:26. > :19:28.policy Jeremy Corbyn has talked about, ?500 billion, how would it
:19:29. > :19:35.work? It is clear we need to listen to
:19:36. > :19:39.business, and if we listened to Carolyn Fairbairn, there is a sense
:19:40. > :19:44.of uncertainty from business. Whilst Theresa May says the right things
:19:45. > :19:49.around people feeling left behind by globalisation, it needs to be
:19:50. > :19:55.followed through with assurance that the gap between the very richest and
:19:56. > :19:59.poorest does not expand in the way it is. Down is by to say when it
:20:00. > :20:06.comes to looking at extreme poverty, that has happened, but when people
:20:07. > :20:12.see people getting richer, they feel very much like the haves and
:20:13. > :20:18.have-nots. Some people do not feel they have any opportunity.
:20:19. > :20:22.If they don't have opportunities, with putting workers on company
:20:23. > :20:25.boards make them feel better? The best businesses I note in my
:20:26. > :20:31.constituency, with a good relationship with the workforce.
:20:32. > :20:34.What about the worker on a company board?
:20:35. > :20:37.That ensures the voice of the workforce is heard in those
:20:38. > :20:42.important decisions and I support it.
:20:43. > :20:45.Was it a mistake to write back from it?
:20:46. > :20:49.No. That is what she promised initially.
:20:50. > :20:52.There should be a presumption of innocence. Companies want to be
:20:53. > :20:57.successful, they do not need legislation for that.
:20:58. > :21:00.The difference between what executives are paid...
:21:01. > :21:05.There is a case for tweaking the corporate Government rules to
:21:06. > :21:09.encourage shareholders to think of themselves and behave like
:21:10. > :21:14.proprietors rather than investors. With a couple of minor changes, some
:21:15. > :21:17.of which we were hearing from the Business Secretary, allowing
:21:18. > :21:23.shareholders to vote definitively on executive pay, this isn't
:21:24. > :21:27.corporatism, the state taking over companies, but a couple of
:21:28. > :21:30.improvements will yield huge dividends.
:21:31. > :21:35.You heard what she had to say about Carolyn Fairbairn about Brexit, and
:21:36. > :21:41.tariff free access to the single market. You think it could be sunny
:21:42. > :21:45.uplands if we come out, but the business community does not agree
:21:46. > :21:50.with you. They have a right to disagree. I am
:21:51. > :21:54.not sure that is what Carolyn was saying, she looked forward to doing
:21:55. > :21:58.trade deals with the US, China... And of course it is complicated but
:21:59. > :22:03.the ability to do free trade agreements with the biggest
:22:04. > :22:08.economies of the world, the US and China, is a pretty big game.
:22:09. > :22:12.All the growth this century is outside the EU. We should be free to
:22:13. > :22:18.do our own trade deals. She is right we want access to the
:22:19. > :22:22.single market. Tariff free access. And I don't hear
:22:23. > :22:28.any voices from any serious politician on either side of the
:22:29. > :22:30.channel proposing that. Why are we fretting about something no one is
:22:31. > :22:34.suggesting? Because they say in European
:22:35. > :22:38.countries they don't know what the country wants until they have heard
:22:39. > :22:43.from Theresa May. Jeremy Corbyn will outline his plans
:22:44. > :22:50.for the ?500 billion of investment, a massive amount of borrowing.
:22:51. > :22:52.Labour would be maxing out on the nation's credit card.
:22:53. > :22:55.Economists say this is the best time to borrow, it has never been so
:22:56. > :23:01.cheap. It has been low for a long time.
:23:02. > :23:07.There is a case, if we don't invest, we can't grow our economy.
:23:08. > :23:11.Austerity has failed. Six wasted years under this Government whereby
:23:12. > :23:20.actually the vast majority of people, their wages have been held
:23:21. > :23:22.low, prompt activity is stagnating -- Productivity.
:23:23. > :23:27.That is not fair, we have had more jobs created in this country than
:23:28. > :23:32.the whole of the EU. Productivity levels have been low in
:23:33. > :23:36.this country, there has been wage stagnation. People are predicting it
:23:37. > :23:42.will go down again. Given where we were starting from,
:23:43. > :23:44.squeezing out that debt, we did well compared to every other
:23:45. > :23:50.industrialised country in the world. I am bullish it will carry on, we
:23:51. > :23:57.are well equipped, I see a great future for us, driverless cars,
:23:58. > :23:59.biotech, 3D printing, we are a very inventive people.
:24:00. > :24:01.Over the weekend, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn again rejected calls
:24:02. > :24:04.by some in his party to pledge to cut immigration, saying
:24:05. > :24:06.he would not make "false promises" like the Conservatives.
:24:07. > :24:08.Instead he favours measures to mitigate the impact of migration.
:24:09. > :24:11.Here he is talking to his party's national policy forum
:24:12. > :24:17.Politicians and political parties have a choice in this age
:24:18. > :24:24.Do we play on people's fears and anxieties?
:24:25. > :24:27.Or do we take what might be the more difficult approach?
:24:28. > :24:35.We can see the choice being taken by politicians on the hard right,
:24:36. > :24:40.to whip up division against migrants, Muslims,
:24:41. > :24:49.Mexicans, women, LGBT people, people with disabilities.
:24:50. > :24:52.The fake anti-elitism of rich white men like Nigel Farage
:24:53. > :24:55.and Donald Trump is farcical at one level, but in reality it is no
:24:56. > :24:59.So, is the party's position on immigration and freedom
:25:00. > :25:04.Well, perhaps not entirely - the Shadow Brexit Secretary,
:25:05. > :25:07.Kier Starmer, has said immigration is too high, but last week
:25:08. > :25:11.Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott warned against trying to "out
:25:12. > :25:18.She said the idea that Labour was losing voters to the Tories
:25:19. > :25:20.or Ukip because of immigration was false.
:25:21. > :25:23.Well, to talk about this we're joined by the Labour MP Ian Austin.
:25:24. > :25:32.Take that on board, are you losing voters to the Tories and Ukip
:25:33. > :25:38.because of immigration? For a long time, people in the
:25:39. > :25:42.country, in particular, parts of the Midlands, the Black Country that I
:25:43. > :25:46.represent, think London based politicians have not been listening
:25:47. > :25:54.to their concerns on immigration. We heard Diane last week visiting this
:25:55. > :25:57.false choice, that to listen to people on immigration to come up
:25:58. > :26:03.with fair answers to their concerns is in some way trying to out Ukip.
:26:04. > :26:06.Nothing could be further from the truth. We have to listen to local
:26:07. > :26:11.people and their concerns and do the hard work of coming up with
:26:12. > :26:16.reasonable answers in line with our values. That is totally different
:26:17. > :26:20.from the approach Ukip take. Does Jeremy Corbyn understands the
:26:21. > :26:25.concerns of many Labour voters about levels of immigration?
:26:26. > :26:31.Jeremy listens to Labour MPs from up and down the country. I hear those
:26:32. > :26:36.comments and recognise, but I constituents are telling me the same
:26:37. > :26:40.Ian is hearing. People are worried about immigration, concerned about
:26:41. > :26:45.their wages being undercut, strains on public services.
:26:46. > :26:48.We need to start talking about immigration in an open and honest
:26:49. > :26:53.way. The reality is, without levels of
:26:54. > :26:57.immigration, you can't have public services and the NHS functioning. We
:26:58. > :27:02.need to be honest and say there needs to be immigration but we need
:27:03. > :27:05.to make sure the consequences on communities are not that they can't
:27:06. > :27:11.get a school place or the waiting list at hospitals all GPs are not
:27:12. > :27:18.long. Do you think the Labour Party has
:27:19. > :27:21.done enough to mitigate some of the effects of immigration on
:27:22. > :27:26.communities like yours? Clearly, we haven't. We should be
:27:27. > :27:30.taking the benefits that well-paid migrants bring to the country, city
:27:31. > :27:36.traders, hedge fund dealers in London, using the taxes they pay, to
:27:37. > :27:41.relieve the pressure low paid migration can cause to the NHS and
:27:42. > :27:45.schools in areas like the Black Country. We should insist further
:27:46. > :27:50.that every time a large company has to take on a skilled foreign worker
:27:51. > :27:55.from abroad because they can't find those in this country, they should
:27:56. > :28:02.take on an apprentice as well. Much more to deport foreign criminals, we
:28:03. > :28:05.should bring back fingerprinting for illegal immigrants at Calais,
:28:06. > :28:11.abolished by this Government. Much more on the Border Force which
:28:12. > :28:18.again was cut by this Government. We should say people should not be
:28:19. > :28:22.able to come here and be unemployed, or claim benefits, until they have
:28:23. > :28:24.worked and paid into the system, or claim benefits for Jordan not in the
:28:25. > :28:29.country. There are lots of things we can do
:28:30. > :28:34.based on values of hard work, was was witty and contribution, 1
:28:35. > :28:38.million miles away from Ukip. Diane presented this false choice of
:28:39. > :28:42.listening to people on immigration that you are aping the far right,
:28:43. > :28:47.that is nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn believes it is not
:28:48. > :28:51.about the numbers, that people are concerned about the numbers of
:28:52. > :29:02.immigrants coming to the UK, is he wrong?
:29:03. > :29:04.Look at what happened with the countries, the Government estimated
:29:05. > :29:08.the numbers wrong lead which have different effects in the country.
:29:09. > :29:13.Politicians in London need to get out of London, come to areas like
:29:14. > :29:16.the Black Country and listen to ordinary people.
:29:17. > :29:21.These people are not racist, they have perfectly legitimate concerns.
:29:22. > :29:29.It is about time politicians started listening to them and responding.
:29:30. > :29:33.Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn, London based MPs with a different view of
:29:34. > :29:37.the world to constituencies in other parts of the country. Therefore they
:29:38. > :29:41.don't understand or appreciate the level of concern Ian Austin has
:29:42. > :29:48.outlined. Do you to see lower levels of immigration to the UK?
:29:49. > :29:51.Regarding London, immigration plays activity in the country. But I don't
:29:52. > :29:57.think there is anything in is saying is not incompatible with the vast
:29:58. > :30:06.majority... There is a lot of common ground.
:30:07. > :30:12.Do you want to see low levels of immigration, like Keir Starmer and
:30:13. > :30:16.Ian Austin, or do you agree with Jeremy Corbyn, that it is not about
:30:17. > :30:21.the numbers? I won't be drawn on the numbers but what I will say is...
:30:22. > :30:25.Why not? They have a lot of common ground on this. People want to know
:30:26. > :30:28.about the numbers, it is a straightforward question, do you
:30:29. > :30:33.want to see low levels or do you want to see them about the same or
:30:34. > :30:36.more? I think where immigration benefits this country it should be
:30:37. > :30:41.welcomed and the fact is people who are migrants in this country are
:30:42. > :30:46.more likely to put more into the economy than take out in welfare. It
:30:47. > :30:52.is migrants who add to our chances of success as a country, I won't be
:30:53. > :30:56.attacking anyone who is a migrant in this country because the migrants in
:30:57. > :31:00.my community are the ones who contribute the most. But that is not
:31:01. > :31:04.the say it, people do have concerns and fears and I think that, I have
:31:05. > :31:09.had it from my constituencies and Ian has had it from his, that is a
:31:10. > :31:13.problem, that we need to address as a party because for a very long time
:31:14. > :31:17.we did try and dodge the issue about talking about immigration. Do you
:31:18. > :31:21.think now that Government of any colour would have to do something
:31:22. > :31:26.about the numbers, of people cough coming to the UK or can you do more
:31:27. > :31:31.as Cat Smith and Ian awes the inare saying to address the impact, and
:31:32. > :31:34.not focus on the numbers? I think there is a feeling that immigration
:31:35. > :31:39.is out of control, and people want to feel that we should be backing
:31:40. > :31:44.control of who comes in, and roughly in what numbers, please don't make
:31:45. > :31:48.the mistake of attributing false motives to people. The people who
:31:49. > :31:52.have argued that, as Ian Austin says are not in the least bit racist,
:31:53. > :31:56.they want to have controlled, legal immigration when it benefits the
:31:57. > :32:00.economy. And lower? I think probably slightly lower than recently, I
:32:01. > :32:07.suspect that will happen any way. I think many voters would light it to
:32:08. > :32:11.be a lot lower. There is a tiny number who want drastic cuts. I
:32:12. > :32:19.don't recognise that. There was a poll last month said 88% of people
:32:20. > :32:25.want skilled worker to come here, so this is about being able to sift who
:32:26. > :32:30.we allow in, to benefit from the energy and enterprise and to be fair
:32:31. > :32:33.to non-EU immigrants to people of Commonwealth backgrounds who find
:32:34. > :32:37.they are discriminated against. Jeremy Corbyn is clear, there will
:32:38. > :32:40.be no targets or limits on iminvestigation after Brexit, as far
:32:41. > :32:44.as he is concerned, if he was in charge, is he right on that 1234
:32:45. > :32:48.Look, I think all the parties really need to wake up and listen to what
:32:49. > :32:53.people in place like the Black Country are saying about this.
:32:54. > :32:59.Politics would be simple, wouldn't it, if I would say isn't the NHS
:33:00. > :33:03.great, aren't the Tories terrible, but that is not what politics is
:33:04. > :33:07.like, what we have do is listen to people's genuine and deeply held
:33:08. > :33:13.concerns and do the hard work of coming up with fair and reasonable
:33:14. > :33:17.answers to address them. I think by ghising this and or saying we won't
:33:18. > :33:21.enter into debate or focus on concern people have, that would be a
:33:22. > :33:22.disaster for Labour in this Parliament just as it was in the
:33:23. > :33:23.last one. Thank you. Now, all eyes will be
:33:24. > :33:27.on the House of Commons and Chancellor Phillip Hammond
:33:28. > :33:29.as he delivered his first autumn So let's take a look at that
:33:30. > :33:33.and the other political events likely to be making
:33:34. > :33:36.the news this week. When the Commons gets
:33:37. > :33:38.going this afternoon, MPs will be debating
:33:39. > :33:39.the Higher Education and Research Bill, and Labour
:33:40. > :33:42.will be attempting to make a number of amendments, including bringing
:33:43. > :33:47.back students' maintenance grants. On Tuesday, the Office
:33:48. > :33:48.for National Statistics publishes its latest set of data
:33:49. > :33:51.on the state of the UK's Wednesday sees Prime Minister's
:33:52. > :34:05.Questions at noon, but the big event of the day is the Autumn Statement
:34:06. > :34:07.from Chancellor Phlip Hammond. This is his first big set-piece
:34:08. > :34:10.statement in the Commons, and he's said he wants to make
:34:11. > :34:13.the UK economy "watertight" to cope The Shadow Chancellor John
:34:14. > :34:15.McDonnell will respond, and after the statement,
:34:16. > :34:17.the independent Office for Budget Responsibility -
:34:18. > :34:19.the official economic watchdog - publishes its latest
:34:20. > :34:23.Economic and Fiscal Outlook. Then on Thursday it'll be the turn
:34:24. > :34:26.of the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies to give
:34:27. > :34:29.their take on the Mr Hammond's work - a view which usually
:34:30. > :34:32.has a big impact on how On Friday, the Women's Equality
:34:33. > :34:35.Party hold their first every three-day conference -
:34:36. > :34:43.that's in Manchester. And with me now to discuss
:34:44. > :34:46.all of that are Laura Hughes, from the Daily Telegraph,
:34:47. > :34:51.and the Daily Mirror's Ben Glaze. Dismissing this and or saying we
:34:52. > :34:53.won't enter into debate or focus on concern people have, that would be a
:34:54. > :34:55.disaster for Labour in this Parliament just as it was in the
:34:56. > :34:58.last one. Thank you. Welcome. What you expect from Philip
:34:59. > :35:01.Hammond, often known as spread sheet Phil? We know a bit about what is
:35:02. > :35:03.going to be coming uple he has talked about infrastructure, putting
:35:04. > :35:07.money into developing roads and our transport systems in this country,
:35:08. > :35:14.we also know he will be introducing a ban on pension cold calling, there
:35:15. > :35:18.is going to be a crackdown on workers' perk, mobile phone
:35:19. > :35:28.contracts things like that, there will be a focus on Jams, so we will
:35:29. > :35:31.see tax cuts for those people and a freeze on fuel duty. Those are the
:35:32. > :35:36.main things we can hope to expect. That is comprehensive. Let us look
:35:37. > :35:39.at the future growth prospects. It a big moment when we hear from the
:35:40. > :35:42.Office for Budget Responsibility, and it will give us a slightly
:35:43. > :35:45.clearer idea as to what is being expected in the years ahead. That is
:35:46. > :35:50.is right. We expect some grave numbers from the OBR on Wednesday,
:35:51. > :35:53.so far the forecasts haven't been official forecasts, this will be the
:35:54. > :35:58.first time we get to see the impact of Brexit, on those public finances,
:35:59. > :36:02.on growth, and we can find out exactly how much a black hole is
:36:03. > :36:07.likely to be in the Treasury coffers after we lever the EU. Current
:36:08. > :36:11.projections are it might be about 1 hundred billion he will have to
:36:12. > :36:13.find, those are huge numbers for the Chancellor delivering his first
:36:14. > :36:17.Autumn Statement. Brexit will loom large, in fact it will no doubt be a
:36:18. > :36:23.thread running through the whole Autumn Statement. He has talked
:36:24. > :36:27.about uncertainty in the past, bumps in the road, perhaps they weren't
:36:28. > :36:31.his words but in terms of the current data we have now, there
:36:32. > :36:35.doesn't seem to have been that much bad news coming the Government's way
:36:36. > :36:38.There is consumer confidence but Philip Hammond was doing the rounds
:36:39. > :36:42.yesterday and a lot of Tory MPs accused him of being overly
:36:43. > :36:46.pessimistic, but is it right for the Chancellor for cautious or is he
:36:47. > :36:51.just a sort of half empty I kind of guy? I don't know, there are mixed
:36:52. > :36:55.figures, mixed number, some say this is great for exports so some people
:36:56. > :36:58.are doing well, others are not so sure, he is really kind of
:36:59. > :37:03.emphasising that it is the uncertainty, it is what is going to
:37:04. > :37:08.happen in the future, What about Labour's response? What will they
:37:09. > :37:12.focus on? Labour will call for the ESA cuts that are coming to be
:37:13. > :37:16.ameliorated. They want the Universal Credit cuts that are coming down the
:37:17. > :37:21.line, they want those put back, but the problem for Philip Hammond is
:37:22. > :37:26.there isn't any money left, Labour wants a massive public spending,
:37:27. > :37:29.about ?500 billion on infrastructure, John McDonnell has
:37:30. > :37:36.talked about ?250 billion invest vestment. 100 billioner, another 150
:37:37. > :37:39.billion generated from the private sectors that would put money in and
:37:40. > :37:43.get the economy growing and generate more cash for the Treasury. But the
:37:44. > :37:46.problem is there isn't that money available, and Philip Hammond is not
:37:47. > :37:52.going to have a lot to play with come Wednesday. They always complain
:37:53. > :37:55.about that. What about stories in the paper, the prospect of Tony
:37:56. > :37:59.Blair returning to front line politics, not front line but
:38:00. > :38:05.politics in order to campaign against a hard Brexit. Dismissed
:38:06. > :38:09.chip of course. Well, purportedly he is setting up an institute to
:38:10. > :38:13.influent the Brexit process. I spoke to a lot of Tory MPs who were
:38:14. > :38:18.delighted with the news that Tony Blair is coming back to argue
:38:19. > :38:22.everything they don't want, they see him has a discredited establishment
:38:23. > :38:28.type figure. I heard that over the other side of the table. There was a
:38:29. > :38:34.picture of Blair holding up the sign saying I voted Remain, I said he
:38:35. > :38:39.voted, have you. Any truth in it? It would be great for the Brexiteers to
:38:40. > :38:44.take control of the negotiations it is what they want. On that note,
:38:45. > :38:49.thank you both very much. One of our guests today has been described as
:38:50. > :38:55.the man who brought you Brexit. Indeed former Northern Ireland
:38:56. > :38:58.Secretary Theresa Villiers said she tect texted him to congratulate him.
:38:59. > :39:03.If Theresa May says Brexit means Brexit, what does Dan say it means?
:39:04. > :39:09.He has written a new book, I have it here called what next for about what
:39:10. > :39:24.necks. He has -- next. He has made a Daily Politics soapbox and here is
:39:25. > :39:29.So far, attention has focused disproportionately on our
:39:30. > :39:31.relationship with the Brussels institutions here, and with
:39:32. > :39:37.Is it going to be a hard or a soft Brexit?
:39:38. > :39:40.Are we going to have access to the single market?
:39:41. > :39:42.But, really, the answer to those questions was contained
:39:43. > :39:49.A 52-48 vote is not an instruction to end all our institutional
:39:50. > :39:55.It is an instruction to begin a phased and gradual
:39:56. > :40:02.Having taken back control, in other words, having
:40:03. > :40:07.recovered our legal supremacy, there is no reason why we shouldn't
:40:08. > :40:09.replicate some of our existing arrangements through bilateral
:40:10. > :40:17.In other words, a common market, not a common Government.
:40:18. > :40:20.No-one on either side of the Channel is seriously proposing
:40:21. > :40:29.In fact, every non-EU state in Europe except Belarus
:40:30. > :40:34.enjoys free trade with the European single market.
:40:35. > :40:37.Far more important is the question of our relations with the 165
:40:38. > :40:41.The countries that will account for almost all of the world's
:40:42. > :40:51.Here, we have an opportunity to do something bold and beautiful.
:40:52. > :40:53.We can become, in the Prime Minister's phrase, the global
:40:54. > :41:06.Genuinely unrestricted commerce, based on mutual product recognition,
:41:07. > :41:08.rather than the imposition of common stantdards,
:41:09. > :41:10.will do more to raise living standards in developing countries,
:41:11. > :41:21.Instead of coming at a cost to British taxpayers,
:41:22. > :41:27.it will bring benefit to British consumers.
:41:28. > :41:31.And the biggest benefits will be felt by the people on the lowest
:41:32. > :41:39.incomes who stand to gain the most proportionally from cheaper prices.
:41:40. > :41:42.Back in charge of our own affairs, we can make Britain the best place
:41:43. > :41:45.We can have lower, flatter, simpler taxes.
:41:46. > :41:47.We can have cheap energy, lighter regulation,
:41:48. > :41:54.We have spent 44 years in a dark and cramped room.
:41:55. > :41:59.Now the door swings open and we see a little rectangle of light.
:42:00. > :42:02.As our eyes adjust, we glimpse the colours of a summer meadow
:42:03. > :42:04.beyond, with swallows diving against the blue sky
:42:05. > :42:07.Let us not hang around at the doorstep.
:42:08. > :42:29.That was Dan Hannan and he is here. I am sure he will give us more
:42:30. > :42:35.poetic lines in the next discussion. Do you accept there is still a lot
:42:36. > :42:38.of confusion around what the deal will the EU will be, because vote
:42:39. > :42:43.leave weren't clear themselves about what it would look like? I mean,
:42:44. > :42:48.that is perfectly fair, vote leave wept from the far left of the Labour
:42:49. > :42:51.Party, trade unions Ukip so there was a variety of opinions, it is
:42:52. > :42:56.unclear because a lot of people have the idea that you are either in or
:42:57. > :43:01.out of the single market, it isn't a single entity. It is an almall gap
:43:02. > :43:07.of different thing, some bits are attractive. The real basis of the
:43:08. > :43:13.single market is the prohibition on goods from another member state. Let
:43:14. > :43:18.us stick to your idea, that it isn't a binary decision, you say you can
:43:19. > :43:23.have other options but you are in as a member or you are not. You are
:43:24. > :43:26.not. That is not true. It is a conglomerateration over many years
:43:27. > :43:29.of lots of different responsibilities and obligation,
:43:30. > :43:34.some of which work for the benefit of the consumer, some which bring
:43:35. > :43:40.down price, some are very bad for us, the common external tariff. That
:43:41. > :43:44.assumes we can pick or choose. There won't be that, but in among this
:43:45. > :43:47.confusion that you have conceded existed because there are a
:43:48. > :43:52.different range of views, doesn't mean that Parliament should have a
:43:53. > :43:57.say? No-one questions that, that was very clear. But a vote now
:43:58. > :44:02.triggering Article 50. They want another vote. Fine, if that keeps
:44:03. > :44:08.everybody happy, let's do it. It is not a binary decision if your mind,
:44:09. > :44:09.but let us listen to what you said regarding the single market last
:44:10. > :44:11.year. Absolutely nobody is talking about
:44:12. > :44:20.threatening our place in the single You said nobody was talking about
:44:21. > :44:26.that, but people were, and to clear up for our viewers this was put out
:44:27. > :44:31.by the group Open Europe, do you think we should leave the single
:44:32. > :44:35.market or don't you? You saw that filleted by your colleague Andrew
:44:36. > :44:38.Neil yesterday. I will say one more time, there are aspects of the
:44:39. > :44:43.single market I think we should keep, we should however leave the
:44:44. > :44:46.customs union and leave the jurisdiction of the European Court
:44:47. > :44:51.of Justice, you say it is, why should the other countries do that?
:44:52. > :44:55.Let us tray and not be part of... It sets a precedent to everybody else.
:44:56. > :44:59.We will all behave out of our rational self-interest. What makes
:45:00. > :45:03.you think that? Generally I find in diplomacy decisions are made on the
:45:04. > :45:07.basis of present interest rather than past grudges and just as it is
:45:08. > :45:12.in our interest to have prosperous neighbours who are good customers it
:45:13. > :45:16.is not in anyone's interest in Europe to have a trade war. That
:45:17. > :45:20.means giving us everything you have outlined. You said there wasn't any
:45:21. > :45:24.digs about leaving the single market, but you do want to leave
:45:25. > :45:28.parts of it. You want everyone to accept the vision that you have for
:45:29. > :45:32.the single market, if we were to be like Norway which I think at times
:45:33. > :45:36.you thought was a good model we would have to accept the rules of
:45:37. > :45:42.the EU, freedom of movement and contribution the EU budget.
:45:43. > :45:49.I have made it clear all the way through, Norway or the destiny
:45:50. > :45:53.preferable, is not nearly as good as Switzerland outside and we should
:45:54. > :45:58.aim to do something better. The broad model should be something
:45:59. > :46:03.closer to the Swiss rather than Norway. I am not in favour of
:46:04. > :46:12.drawing -- Joining the economic economic area.
:46:13. > :46:19.And some freedom of movement? We will have to find a compromise. As I
:46:20. > :46:22.said, no one is talking about screwing the tab completely shut.
:46:23. > :46:28.Going back to the old will you needed a job to come to, 70,000 EU
:46:29. > :46:33.nationals came looking for work in the UK last year. That would be a
:46:34. > :46:35.major impact on migration and make a distinction on the people being let
:46:36. > :46:44.in. Do you agree we will be able to have
:46:45. > :46:48.our cake and eat it, pick some parts of the single market we would like
:46:49. > :46:57.to keep? I like the optimism from down but in
:46:58. > :47:01.the world of reality there will be a move in Europe to punish us for the
:47:02. > :47:04.decision we have made to leave. They don't want to get the message you
:47:05. > :47:10.can leave the EU and keep the bits you like and get rid of those you
:47:11. > :47:14.don't. I worry we will be punished. In which case it is a protection
:47:15. > :47:20.racket. Thank goodness we are leaving. And
:47:21. > :47:26.we will have to lead the bits that are positive? The price we are
:47:27. > :47:29.paying to completely leave... I think they will behave out of self
:47:30. > :47:35.interest, I don't expect any favours.
:47:36. > :47:40.The German finance minister said there is no a la carte menu, the
:47:41. > :47:47.whole menu or none. The Dutch finance minister said Boris Johnson,
:47:48. > :47:50.what he is offering our options are not available.
:47:51. > :47:56.On the basis it may be rhetoric, they won't do what you say.
:47:57. > :48:03.That is their high opening bid. Both sides you would expect to make a
:48:04. > :48:07.high opening bid. We will end up I am pretty confident with something
:48:08. > :48:12.where we are in the free market but outside the political union. A lot
:48:13. > :48:17.of the people now... That is the common market, you said
:48:18. > :48:20.you wanted to come out of a common market.
:48:21. > :48:26.To repeat, there is a pan European free trade area, from Iceland to
:48:27. > :48:30.Turkey without tariffs. I don't think anyone is proposing Britain
:48:31. > :48:34.would be the only country apart from Belarus, that would face tariffs and
:48:35. > :48:42.trade barriers. This is the first country to have a
:48:43. > :48:45.Brexit. Donald Tusk has said the only real alternative to a hard
:48:46. > :48:51.Brexit is no Brexit. This is the incredible thing. Two
:48:52. > :48:54.thirds of people I talked to in Brussels still do not accept the
:48:55. > :48:59.result, they still think somehow Britain will come to its senses. If
:49:00. > :49:03.they are hard enough in their rhetoric that we might switch
:49:04. > :49:09.brands, that is a bad misreading of our character, when people feel they
:49:10. > :49:12.are being bullied, they go the other way.
:49:13. > :49:18.Theresa May is refusing to guarantee the residency of the millions of
:49:19. > :49:22.nationals from EU countries, should she guarantee the rights of those
:49:23. > :49:27.people now? Absolutely, these people have lived
:49:28. > :49:31.and worked and Koch beat it, had families in the UK, they deserve
:49:32. > :49:37.some level of security. There are unknowns in business but unknowns in
:49:38. > :49:42.people's lives. Hundreds of people have contacted me
:49:43. > :49:47.worried about this in my constituency. Not the most diverse
:49:48. > :49:50.of constituencies but we have many European people contributing in
:49:51. > :49:56.universities in particular who want stability.
:49:57. > :50:00.They deserve that. It means we can offer to many British people living
:50:01. > :50:05.elsewhere in Europe. I agree, so do 84% of British
:50:06. > :50:09.voters. High opening bids.
:50:10. > :50:11.Now, let's talk about some rather unusual goings-on,
:50:12. > :50:12.as the Conservatives seek to replace their MEP
:50:13. > :50:16.The vacancy arose after the last man in the job, Timothy Kirkhope,
:50:17. > :50:20.was given a seat in the Lords by David Cameron in his final
:50:21. > :50:24.It would normally go to the person who came second in the Conservative
:50:25. > :50:26.list for the region at the 2014 European elections,
:50:27. > :50:30.which in this case is former Olympic rower Alex Story.
:50:31. > :50:33.But instead, the party has chosen to hand the seat to the man
:50:34. > :50:36.who came third on the list, the Leeds councillor John Procter.
:50:37. > :50:38.Mr Story has been attempting to overturn the decision,
:50:39. > :50:40.but last week lost an attempt to block Mr Procter's
:50:41. > :50:58.How are you feeling about it all? It has been a bit of a shock.
:50:59. > :51:05.Historically in the UK we have physical representation underpinned
:51:06. > :51:09.by a democratic process. I won the support of the Yorkshire
:51:10. > :51:14.Conservative membership. I was on the ballot box. I campaigned in that
:51:15. > :51:19.capacity as number two on the list, I want 127,000 votes. What happened
:51:20. > :51:24.last week is that the Conservative Party Central office decided to
:51:25. > :51:29.overturn the ballot results. In effect, setting off in my view a
:51:30. > :51:35.constitutional issue. They have decided, somebody centrally, in this
:51:36. > :51:41.case, Gareth Fox, a man who is elected by no one, he decided to
:51:42. > :51:45.appoint to an elected seat a person who received neither the support of
:51:46. > :51:50.the Conservative Party membership in Yorkshire North of the electorate.
:51:51. > :51:55.Let me read the statement from the Conservative Party, following the
:51:56. > :51:59.departure from the European Parliament, John Proctor has been
:52:00. > :52:03.confirmed by the Conservative Party. He will be a strong voice for
:52:04. > :52:09.Yorkshire and the Humber as we get on with the job of delivering what
:52:10. > :52:12.the people of the UK voted for, making a success of Brexit. Why
:52:13. > :52:17.would you want to spend thousands of pounds of your money for a job that
:52:18. > :52:21.won't exist in a few years? I have campaigned for the
:52:22. > :52:28.Conservative Party for nearly 20 years. My father is a father of
:52:29. > :52:31.political -- Is a professor of political science, I have grown up
:52:32. > :52:37.with political economy in my blood. It would have been a huge honour for
:52:38. > :52:42.me, having fought on the Brexit side of the arguments, to go to the
:52:43. > :52:46.European Parliament and put a very positive case about our relationship
:52:47. > :52:52.with the European Union. As you know, I am half English, half
:52:53. > :52:58.Austrian, born in France, I wife is German, I had Italian and Spanish
:52:59. > :53:03.cousins. I love Europe. I wanted the opportunity, possibly the most
:53:04. > :53:08.exciting part of our history since the end of the Second World War, to
:53:09. > :53:12.do something positive. Do you sympathise, has he been
:53:13. > :53:17.mistreated? Of course I sympathise. But those
:53:18. > :53:22.are the rules. That is the decision made. That he
:53:23. > :53:24.has been leapfrogged by the third person?
:53:25. > :53:30.That is what the court has decided to uphold. I would be sore about it.
:53:31. > :53:35.The court did not overturn anything, we were trying to stop the
:53:36. > :53:39.nomination of John Proctor because we had been given 30 days and we had
:53:40. > :53:46.a dispute with the Conservative Party and we needed to get more time
:53:47. > :53:54.to go to a judicial evaluation. The injunction for the High Court on
:53:55. > :53:58.the council was not something that had to do with the vote but delaying
:53:59. > :54:03.the process of nominating John Proctor. The important thing is a
:54:04. > :54:09.question of democracy. Will you pursue it? It is an
:54:10. > :54:14.interesting thing. The bottom line for me is that, having worked so
:54:15. > :54:19.hard for an organisation for so long, I stood for three general
:54:20. > :54:24.elections, I won the ballot for membership in 2014, and received
:54:25. > :54:29.127,000 votes, John received zero, he did not get the backing of
:54:30. > :54:33.anybody, not that many in the Conservative Party in Yorkshire. He
:54:34. > :54:39.has been appointed to an elected position.
:54:40. > :54:44.The question is, will I do it? It is difficult for me to say. I haven't
:54:45. > :54:47.decided. We have the litigation papers ready to go and a strong
:54:48. > :54:53.case. The bottom line to me is this. If an
:54:54. > :54:59.organisation can treat its volunteers and its candidates like
:55:00. > :55:02.slave Labour, and attacked them as they have when really they haven't
:55:03. > :55:08.done anything wrong or they haven't bought the party in disrepute in any
:55:09. > :55:10.particular way, what is the point of the organisation?
:55:11. > :55:12.Let us know if you go ahead with further legal action.
:55:13. > :55:14.Now, it's to find out the answer to our quiz.
:55:15. > :55:17.The question was, what appears on the cushions in Donald
:55:18. > :55:25.Or d) An embroidered image of the Mexican border?
:55:26. > :55:36.I have not had an invitation to Trump Towers, I think it is the coat
:55:37. > :55:40.of arms. It has got to be. It would be nice
:55:41. > :55:43.to think it was any of the others. You are right.
:55:44. > :55:45.Well, we're joined now by the heraldic consultant -
:55:46. > :55:48.and we're pleased to hear there is such a job -
:55:49. > :55:57.Welcome to the programme. Tell us about this coat of arms of Donald
:55:58. > :56:03.Trump, what does it represent? It is interesting, arcane heraldic
:56:04. > :56:10.Scottish law provided evidence of his deep and Ophelia and touches on
:56:11. > :56:14.the royal prerogative. Donald Trump in 2008 tried to get the Government
:56:15. > :56:20.support in Scotland for one of his golf courses and he put out this
:56:21. > :56:27.Trump coat of arms. In fact they were created by two people in his
:56:28. > :56:35.staff. You can see clear violations in the rules. Scotland has strict
:56:36. > :56:42.heraldic regulations. The monarch is delegated the royal authority to the
:56:43. > :56:47.Scottish judge. Trump was forced to abandon this coat of arms
:56:48. > :56:52.embarrassingly. Four years later the crown granted a coat of arms to the
:56:53. > :56:56.golf course, not Donald Trump. So the pillows are for an Aberdeen
:56:57. > :56:59.golf course. We can see in there, what does it
:57:00. > :57:03.say about him? A coat of arms is a shorthand to
:57:04. > :57:09.history. We have these Scottish lion rampant
:57:10. > :57:17.in a stylised version. Two stars beneath it for his American
:57:18. > :57:21.heritage. And a representation for the golf course. And the double
:57:22. > :57:28.headed eagle representing his Scottish- Germanic heritage.
:57:29. > :57:34.The eagle is grasping two golf balls!
:57:35. > :57:40.What if my guests wanted their own coat of arms, how difficult is it?
:57:41. > :57:47.They must be a person of outstanding quality.
:57:48. > :57:51.Anyone who has some professional qualification, a university degree
:57:52. > :57:56.or stand out in the community, can petition for a coat of arms for
:57:57. > :58:00.?5,000 in England, ?3000 in Scotland.
:58:01. > :58:04.It is a prolonged process but the wonderful way to preserve your final
:58:05. > :58:07.heritage for future generations because Coats of Arms of personal
:58:08. > :58:12.property which cannot be assumed by others.
:58:13. > :58:14.Any ideas for a motto if you had a coat of arms or was it might look
:58:15. > :58:21.like? It would have to be some quote from
:58:22. > :58:25.the Bard. They play a big part particularly liked the bit at the
:58:26. > :58:29.end of Henry V where the announces the enormous war dead on the other
:58:30. > :58:33.side... He had thought about it. And for
:58:34. > :58:39.you? I am wondering whether there are any
:58:40. > :58:40.Smith coats of arms I could steal. Can you clone them. Thanks you very
:58:41. > :58:41.much. The One O'clock News is starting
:58:42. > :58:49.over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow,
:58:50. > :58:52.with all the big political stories of the day -
:58:53. > :58:55.do join me then.