:00:37. > :00:45.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:46. > :00:53.The new leader of the UK Independence Party with 9622 votes,
:00:54. > :00:55.62.6% of the vote, Paul Nuttall. Paul Nuttall has been elected
:00:56. > :00:59.the new leader of Ukip. After a tumultuous few months,
:01:00. > :01:01.can he bring the fractious Theresa May has admitted that Brexit
:01:02. > :01:07.keeps her awake at night. Could another attempt to get
:01:08. > :01:10.the courts to scupper her plans, be about to contribute
:01:11. > :01:15.to her insomnia? Could forcing firms to reveal
:01:16. > :01:18.the gap between the highest and lowest paid employees be
:01:19. > :01:20.the answer to corporate # I didn't sell out
:01:21. > :01:32.I didn't give in And political songs slug it out
:01:33. > :01:41.to become Christmas number one. But which Jeremy Corbyn-inspired
:01:42. > :01:43.single will make it? And with us for the whole
:01:44. > :01:56.of the programme today is the Conservative MP and former
:01:57. > :01:58.Work and Pensions Secretary, And the Labour MP and former
:01:59. > :02:02.Shadow Cabinet Minister, Lisa Nandy. First, is a new legal
:02:03. > :02:10.challenge about to be launched that will put obstacles
:02:11. > :02:12.in the way of Theresa Lawyers are arguing that June's vote
:02:13. > :02:17.may have mandated our withdrawal from the European Union,
:02:18. > :02:20.but not a lesser-known organisation Theresa May has admitted that
:02:21. > :02:27.decisions over Brexit and this is just latest nightmare
:02:28. > :02:31.to disturb her sleep. Mark Carney, the Governor
:02:32. > :02:36.of the Bank of England, continues to haunt the Prime
:02:37. > :02:39.Minister after calling for a transitional period of two
:02:40. > :02:55.years to delay Britain's departure 80 Conservative MPs will today
:02:56. > :03:01.demand both EU residents in the UK and UK residents in the EU has given
:03:02. > :03:06.reciprocal rights following Brexit, saying people are not bargaining
:03:07. > :03:10.chips. Three of her more regular tormentors, Anna Soubry, Nick Clegg
:03:11. > :03:16.and Chuka Umunna joined forces this morning, saying British industry
:03:17. > :03:17.would be harmed by sector by sector free trade agreement instead of
:03:18. > :03:19.staying in the single market. And Theresa May has
:03:20. > :03:23.a fresh nightmare today with British Influence-backed lawyer
:03:24. > :03:27.Jolyon Maugham arguing that leaving the EU will not automatically mean
:03:28. > :03:30.leaving the European Economic Area - threatening to take the government
:03:31. > :03:32.back to court if it tries But will she be given any comfort
:03:33. > :03:39.today by her Polish counterpart, Beata Szydlo, who is meeting
:03:40. > :03:42.Theresa May at Downing Street. She says Poland will be
:03:43. > :03:45.a constructive partner to the UK and calls for a good compromise
:03:46. > :03:51.with the EU for Britain. Brexit may well be disturbing
:03:52. > :03:54.Jeremy Corbyn's sleep too. Yesterday, Shadow Foreign Secretary
:03:55. > :03:57.Emily Thornberry refused to rule out a second referendum on whatever
:03:58. > :04:03.Brexit deal emerged - a position apparently at odds
:04:04. > :04:09.with her Shadow Cabinet colleagues. And this morning Labour backbencher
:04:10. > :04:12.Dan Jarvis has said that any perceived failure to accept
:04:13. > :04:14.the voters' verdict on Brexit and immigration would act
:04:15. > :04:19.as a toxic mix for Labour. We're joined now by the former
:04:20. > :04:21.Northern Ireland Secretary and Leave campaigner,
:04:22. > :04:31.Theresa Villiers. Welcome. The referendum ballot paper
:04:32. > :04:38.asked people whether to stay in the EU, not the EEA. These lawyers have
:04:39. > :04:43.a right to say you have no mandate to take as out of the EEA and by
:04:44. > :04:50.definition the single market? And we are only in the EEA because we are a
:04:51. > :04:56.member of the EU, article two C of the EEA agreement makes it clear. I
:04:57. > :05:00.think the court proceedings will be dismissed because once we leave the
:05:01. > :05:04.EU we automatically ceased to be members of the EEA. You can be a
:05:05. > :05:09.member of the European free trade area without being a member of the
:05:10. > :05:13.EU, so don't the lawyers have a right to say if you want to
:05:14. > :05:19.underline that departure from the EEA, you would have to do it through
:05:20. > :05:25.Parliament? I believe this court case is another way to try to
:05:26. > :05:28.overturn the result and to muddy the waters, to delay things. Even in the
:05:29. > :05:32.worst-case scenario they turned out to be right and got it to the
:05:33. > :05:36.Supreme Court, the worst-case scenario would be Parliament would
:05:37. > :05:41.have to vote, in which case Parliament should get on and vote
:05:42. > :05:47.because that is the way to respect the result. Is it just an to prolong
:05:48. > :05:52.what they see as agony? Legal action has been launched by an organisation
:05:53. > :05:57.I had not heard of called British Influence, which sounds as if it
:05:58. > :06:00.should be vaguely pro-British but it is an organisation that promotes the
:06:01. > :06:06.European Union. They are trying to basically find a legal route to slow
:06:07. > :06:11.down or block Brexit. I do not think it changes the big picture, we are
:06:12. > :06:14.coming out and if we have to do a separate instrument through
:06:15. > :06:23.Parliament to technically get us out of the EEA, so be it. You would not
:06:24. > :06:26.support is staying in the economic area because you know the argument
:06:27. > :06:29.then would-be it would perhaps allow us to stay in the single market and
:06:30. > :06:34.give us access many would like to keep? I do not think staying in the
:06:35. > :06:40.EEA is consistent with what people voted for on the 23rd of June, which
:06:41. > :06:45.was to leave the EU, for a return of sovereignty and for British law to
:06:46. > :06:51.be superior to the law of the EU. Do you agree? Part of the difficulty is
:06:52. > :06:56.apart from the fact we know Britain voted by a majority to leave the
:06:57. > :06:59.European Union, we don't know what people were actually voting for or
:07:00. > :07:04.what it looks like and one reason the mess has ended up again in the
:07:05. > :07:08.courts is because we have not had clarity from the government about
:07:09. > :07:13.the shape of the Brexit deal. The way we should resolve this is have
:07:14. > :07:18.the debate in Parliament and with the public. We have accepted we are
:07:19. > :07:23.leaving, and five months after the vote, it beggars belief we have not
:07:24. > :07:27.made progress towards what that is. It will be held up as Lisa Nandy
:07:28. > :07:33.says, it will be potentially held up in the courts and the government has
:07:34. > :07:36.lost one case and it is going to the Supreme Court. Are you filled with
:07:37. > :07:42.confidence the government would win a second case on this argument about
:07:43. > :07:48.coming out of the European economic area? I am confident and it is clear
:07:49. > :07:52.the government would win the case. The important thing is to make
:07:53. > :07:57.progress on the negotiations and that will start once Article 50 is
:07:58. > :08:03.tabled. If the government has to introduce separate legislation in
:08:04. > :08:08.the way you conceded, in your case the worst-case scenario, they would
:08:09. > :08:13.have to repeal article 120 seven. Would MPs feel bound to vote the
:08:14. > :08:20.same way as with Article 50, all would they think twice? It makes for
:08:21. > :08:28.a more varied debate and there would be a diverse range of opinions
:08:29. > :08:32.expressed in Pollio. People need to listen to constituents and what they
:08:33. > :08:37.felt people voted for. I was on the Remains side, campaigning against
:08:38. > :08:40.this, but I have recognise what people were fundamentally voting
:08:41. > :08:46.for, and the phrase take back control, the most powerful phrase
:08:47. > :08:50.anyone spoke in the campaign, that is about sovereignty and about
:08:51. > :08:54.saying British laws will be made in Parliament and will not be
:08:55. > :08:59.counteracted by the European Court of Justice, it is about showing
:09:00. > :09:04.voters immigration policy is made within our shores, not in Brussels.
:09:05. > :09:10.If people want those things it is not consistent with staying in the
:09:11. > :09:16.EEA. If we remain in the EEA, do you agree the UK cannot take back
:09:17. > :09:21.control? I disagree with what Stephen Crabb said about taking back
:09:22. > :09:26.control. That became, it somehow captured the mood of people in
:09:27. > :09:30.constituencies like mine, but it was for the constituents I spoke to
:09:31. > :09:35.during the campaign about wanting to see real power over things that
:09:36. > :09:41.matter, whether recent quality work, time to spend with your family,
:09:42. > :09:45.being able to make decisions about local services. Part of the trouble
:09:46. > :09:49.is we had the referendum without real thought given by the government
:09:50. > :09:53.as to what comes next and suddenly we are in a studio in London trying
:09:54. > :09:57.to define what people meant all over the country, and we should have had
:09:58. > :10:01.that debate from the beginning. We will come back to that shortly,
:10:02. > :10:04.particularly the idea if we stayed in the EEA we would have to pay
:10:05. > :10:08.contributions to budgets and would have to have freedom of movement.
:10:09. > :10:11.Now, Ukip has a new leader - its second new leader
:10:12. > :10:21.Congratulations on your victory, pulled muscle. Why do you think
:10:22. > :10:28.members backed you over your rivals? Because I have not just talked the
:10:29. > :10:32.talk, I have walked the walk, been in the party 12 years and I am the
:10:33. > :10:38.most experienced candidate, having been chairman and head of policy,
:10:39. > :10:42.deputy leader six years and the party realises it has to come
:10:43. > :10:46.together and unify and stay on the pitch and hold the government's feet
:10:47. > :10:49.to the fire on Brexit and that is why I have the biggest mandate in
:10:50. > :10:56.the history of the party. Was it a fair contest? One of your fellow
:10:57. > :11:00.candidates, John Rees-Evans, said on this programme the election process
:11:01. > :11:05.has been compromised and alleged party officials may have misused
:11:06. > :11:10.databases to promote their favoured candidate, what do you say to him?
:11:11. > :11:16.That is not something I witness. The last leadership election, there were
:11:17. > :11:21.100 complaints and this election, apparently ten. It is minuscule. I
:11:22. > :11:25.think the election has been good-humoured and fair and precisely
:11:26. > :11:30.what Ukip has needed. The last thing Ukip would have needed is an
:11:31. > :11:35.election that involved in fighting and whatnot. We had a good-humoured
:11:36. > :11:40.contest and now we can move on. The party was so busy involved in months
:11:41. > :11:48.of chaotic infighting, how are you going to deal with that? I have
:11:49. > :11:50.never been part of any faction in the party, I generally get along
:11:51. > :11:59.with everyone. What happens the other month, in Strasbourg, when we
:12:00. > :12:05.had the altercation between two MEPs was probably the best thing that
:12:06. > :12:09.happened because everybody woke up, smelt the coffee and understood it
:12:10. > :12:14.was an existential crisis and it was my duty to step in, stand in this
:12:15. > :12:19.election, win it and bring the party together. One way you can bring the
:12:20. > :12:23.party together after difficult months is by the people you put on
:12:24. > :12:28.your team. You have your pointed? I have appointed Peter Whittle, the
:12:29. > :12:35.London Assembly member as deputy. I have appointed subject to approval
:12:36. > :12:39.Paul Oakden, party chairman, who has steered the ship brilliantly over
:12:40. > :12:44.the summer during these difficult months and I have appointed Patrick
:12:45. > :12:49.O'Flynn as senior political adviser and within the next 72 hours there
:12:50. > :12:53.will be appointments of party officers and spokespeople. I will
:12:54. > :12:58.hit the ground running. I know the party inside out and it will not be
:12:59. > :13:03.a problem. Not the most diverse group of people you have mentioned
:13:04. > :13:08.there, but what about Suzanne Evans, who also ran through leadership, why
:13:09. > :13:14.did you not give her something? If you hold your horses and wait, there
:13:15. > :13:20.will be an announcement regarding Suzanne Evans tomorrow. As I said at
:13:21. > :13:24.the hustings I will build a team of all talents and Suzanne Evans has a
:13:25. > :13:31.lot of talent. What is her job, tell us? I am not going to tell you. Why
:13:32. > :13:37.not? There is not much diversity in the group you have announced, would
:13:38. > :13:54.you agree? Come on, that is splitting hairs. I have appointed
:13:55. > :13:58.three people. Four. My team will be announced in the next 72 hours. This
:13:59. > :14:02.party will move forward. We have had problems over the last couple of
:14:03. > :14:11.months and now we will restructure the party and get ready for the
:14:12. > :14:14.battle ahead at Sleaford and by-elections hopefully next year as
:14:15. > :14:17.well. You were described as a reluctant leader and I think you
:14:18. > :14:21.thought about it before you went to the job. And it was suggested you
:14:22. > :14:26.lacks the steel necessary to sort out the difficulties that the party
:14:27. > :14:33.has experienced. What changed your mind and have you got the steel? The
:14:34. > :14:36.steel issue, the easy thing for me would be to step aside and drum the
:14:37. > :14:41.other faction out of the party, which would be the wrong thing to
:14:42. > :14:45.do. The Coward's thing to do. I showed steel because I said I would
:14:46. > :14:51.bring this thing back together and move it forward and turn it into a
:14:52. > :14:55.real movement of working people that will go into labour constituencies
:14:56. > :15:00.and hopefully in many areas replace the Labour Party. As for me wanting
:15:01. > :15:05.to do it, one reason I did it was because it is my duty. I watched
:15:06. > :15:12.over the summer the party I laugh and have helped build, begin to fall
:15:13. > :15:13.to bits. It is my duty to step in, steadied the ship and take it
:15:14. > :15:22.forward to bigger and better things. Let's pick up on some of the things
:15:23. > :15:25.you mention. On Brexit, how will you put pressure on the Government to
:15:26. > :15:34.deliver what you would like to see in terms of leaving the EU? Elect
:15:35. > :15:39.aurally. -- in terms of elections. The only way you change things in
:15:40. > :15:46.British politics is by being an electoral threat. We saw that in
:15:47. > :15:50.2013. The only reason Mr Cameron offered the referendum was because
:15:51. > :15:54.Ukip was growing in size, growing in the polls and becoming an electoral
:15:55. > :15:59.threat. That is how we will hold the Government's feet to the fire over
:16:00. > :16:04.Brexit. How will you bring Labour voters over to Ukip? Very easy.
:16:05. > :16:10.Jeremy Corbyn seems to be doing a very good job of that himself. We're
:16:11. > :16:13.now going to begin to speak the language of ordinary working people.
:16:14. > :16:23.We will move into the areas that the Labour Party have neglected.
:16:24. > :16:31.Working-class communities across the kingdom can have nothing in common
:16:32. > :16:34.with Jeremy Corbyn and the others. This north London, Islington set. We
:16:35. > :16:40.will focus on the issues that really matter to working-class people on
:16:41. > :16:46.the doorstep - immigration, crime, defence, foreign aid, ensuring
:16:47. > :16:50.British people are put to the top of the queue. We will go out there to
:16:51. > :16:55.campaign and you will see a big rise in the Ukip voting Labour areas
:16:56. > :17:00.under my leadership. If you expect to increase the vote, what would
:17:01. > :17:06.success looked like in terms of seats at the next general election?
:17:07. > :17:11.We would be looking for an improvement on the last one, which
:17:12. > :17:16.would not be difficult. We are looking at least to get into double
:17:17. > :17:19.figures. We're going to target sensibly, not have that scatter-gun
:17:20. > :17:25.approach we had in past. It is clear, the areas where we are now
:17:26. > :17:30.winning councils, drilling down in local communities and making a
:17:31. > :17:35.difference already. Use a double figures in the 2020 general election
:17:36. > :17:41.for Ukip. I would hope so, Jo. But you are putting me on the spot. I
:17:42. > :17:43.was only elected five minutes ago. But you haven't just stepped on
:17:44. > :17:55.leather Ukip stage, have you? You are not a new be in that sense.
:17:56. > :18:00.There was an accusation that the party misspent funds during the
:18:01. > :18:04.election campaign, and one of your own member said it would be no
:18:05. > :18:11.surprise if that had happened. What do you think? In our defence, we had
:18:12. > :18:16.two compliance officers who said everything was fine. We have done
:18:17. > :18:21.nothing different from any of the other pan-European parties, and we
:18:22. > :18:28.expect to be vindicated. In the end, this looks to me as if this is
:18:29. > :18:32.nothing but revenge for Brexit by the European Parliament. It could
:18:33. > :18:36.end up in the European court of justice and I absolutely 100%
:18:37. > :18:40.believe that we will be found innocent. You say you will bring the
:18:41. > :18:44.party together, but one of your big problems is that you have lost a lot
:18:45. > :18:49.of people, people defecting to the Tories, or becoming independent. It
:18:50. > :18:58.was hinted last week that Douglas Carswell could rejoin the Tory Party
:18:59. > :19:05.before the next election. Stephen -- Stephen Wolf, Diane James, these are
:19:06. > :19:11.people who came from the Tory Party. I just saw Douglas on the stairs. He
:19:12. > :19:15.won't be a problem. I am always sad when people leave the party, at any
:19:16. > :19:19.level. I hope that one day they may think about coming back under a new
:19:20. > :19:26.leadership. We have had a very difficult summer. It was as if Ukip
:19:27. > :19:29.won the referendum, stopped fighting the European Union, looked around
:19:30. > :19:33.and decided what else it could fight and decided to fight each other.
:19:34. > :19:39.That is over now, finished. We will look forward and not backward. Under
:19:40. > :19:43.my leadership, with a united Ukip, I would not want to be Labour and
:19:44. > :19:58.Conservative MPs, because if you are Ray Remainer, we're coming after
:19:59. > :20:05.you. -- if you are a Remainer. Nigel Farage will be a roaming voice for
:20:06. > :20:10.the party. I think you will find Nigel Farage will be a prominent
:20:11. > :20:14.voice for the party, on the airwaves and on TV shows like this. I'm sure
:20:15. > :20:19.he will be if he has anything to do with it. In terms of other
:20:20. > :20:24.elections, the French presidential election, would you back Marine Le
:20:25. > :20:30.Pen for that job? This leader of Ukip will not involve himself in any
:20:31. > :20:36.foreign elections. No view at all on it? This Ukip leader will not
:20:37. > :20:41.involve himself in any foreign elections, simple as that. I will be
:20:42. > :20:45.focusing on getting the party ready for 2020 in this country. Do you
:20:46. > :20:54.think it was a mistake for Nigel Farage to back Donald Trump? He has
:20:55. > :21:02.struck gold, hasn't he? He has been proven absolutely right. So you were
:21:03. > :21:05.wrong to criticise it? Yes will stop well, I didn't agree with some of
:21:06. > :21:08.the things Donald Trump was saying during the campaign. I thought in
:21:09. > :21:13.many ways he had the right messages but was the wrong candidate. Now he
:21:14. > :21:16.has won, it is clear he is an Anglophile and will put Britain at
:21:17. > :21:20.the front of the queue when it comes to a trade deal. And this is the guy
:21:21. > :21:24.who backed Brexit. The special relationship is going to be safer
:21:25. > :21:30.with the Trump Administration. Paul Nuttall, thank you very much. Lisa
:21:31. > :21:35.Nandy, Ukip speaking the language of ordinary working people. There is no
:21:36. > :21:41.real affinity in areas like yours with Jeremy Corbyn and the North
:21:42. > :21:46.London elite, as he calls them. The challenge for Paul is whether he can
:21:47. > :21:50.change the party. He said they want to learn to start speaking the
:21:51. > :21:54.language of ordinary people in the North of England, and although lots
:21:55. > :21:57.of people in constituencies like mine agreed with Ukip about wanting
:21:58. > :22:04.to leave the EU, they had precisely the opposite vision about what comes
:22:05. > :22:08.next. Even on immigration? Dan Jarvis has said today that those
:22:09. > :22:12.Labour MPs who do not accept the verdict of the referendum, as he saw
:22:13. > :22:18.it, a lot of it about immigration, will lose their seats. Yes, I think
:22:19. > :22:24.people want to see the impact of immigration dealt with, particularly
:22:25. > :22:28.where we were talking about attracting people into this country
:22:29. > :22:34.to be able to work in areas like the NHS, which has done a lot of good
:22:35. > :22:37.for our services. Young people were saying, we would love to work in the
:22:38. > :22:43.NHS, so why are you not investing in us too? People would like to see
:22:44. > :22:49.more money for the NHS as well. Is it just about impact or is it about
:22:50. > :22:52.fewer people, the numbers? It is about who comes, where they work and
:22:53. > :23:00.what impact that has. It depends, for example, if you are Ray
:23:01. > :23:04.tradesperson working in London where you are competing with migrant
:23:05. > :23:09.workers prepared to live in damp, dirty, overcrowded housing so that
:23:10. > :23:14.you can cut your costs and you seen your wages going down, I think that
:23:15. > :23:18.is about having a minimum level of skills and qualifications in order
:23:19. > :23:22.to drive wages up. If you are a young person in a town like Wigan,
:23:23. > :23:26.where you have just lost your nursing bursary and you are being
:23:27. > :23:30.told to thank your lucky stars that we can attract people into work in
:23:31. > :23:34.the NHS, then it is about ringing back the nursing bursary and that
:23:35. > :23:37.pathway for you. That means you won't reduce the numbers. In the
:23:38. > :23:41.end, people would want a straight answer on that. As well as the
:23:42. > :23:45.impact, would you reduce the numbers? It is not about an
:23:46. > :23:50.arbitrary cap, because that would damage public services. The problem
:23:51. > :23:52.Paul has got is that his party was fighting a campaign saying they
:23:53. > :23:59.would put more money into public services after the referendum, and
:24:00. > :24:05.what we have heard is that there will be more cuts to services as a
:24:06. > :24:09.result of leaving the EU. The net migration figures haven't come down
:24:10. > :24:12.to the tens of thousands over the last Parliament and still in this
:24:13. > :24:18.Parliament, so there is no point in having a cap will stop we set a
:24:19. > :24:25.target which we have not met. Which you could not meet the first time,
:24:26. > :24:27.and you are still far off. Nobody predicted the employment boom we
:24:28. > :24:31.have seen in the last four or five years. As a result, there are parts
:24:32. > :24:35.of the country where there is effectively full employment,
:24:36. > :24:42.business is saying, we need more workers because there is not the
:24:43. > :24:45.availability of young workers. I am open-minded about the immigration
:24:46. > :24:50.issue. For many people, when they voted for Britain to leave the EU,
:24:51. > :24:54.they wanted to see that immigration policy was coming back to the UK for
:24:55. > :24:58.full control. We need to have an honest debate about immigration in
:24:59. > :25:03.the future. The population structure is changing, we are becoming an
:25:04. > :25:06.older society. The truth is, we probably need more immigrants in the
:25:07. > :25:12.future, not less, to do all those jobs that the young talent pool
:25:13. > :25:18.isn't available to do. In a word, we need immigration - do you agree with
:25:19. > :25:21.Stephen? Because of our manifesto commitment, I support attempts to
:25:22. > :25:25.bring the numbers down below 100,000. Everyone acknowledges that
:25:26. > :25:32.will be difficult. Do you think it can be achieved? It is, I think. It
:25:33. > :25:36.will take a while, and it is not achievable until we take back
:25:37. > :25:41.control over immigration and bring free movement to an end. You would
:25:42. > :25:45.be prepared to bring the numbers down to the tens of thousands even
:25:46. > :25:49.if it affected public services and looking after an ageing population
:25:50. > :25:54.in the way Stephen Crabb outlined? And think it is possible to reduce
:25:55. > :25:58.it without damaging services. It is important for us to attempt to
:25:59. > :26:03.fulfil the commitment we made in our manifesto. It will take a long time
:26:04. > :26:08.and it won't be easy but we should not give up on it as an aspiration.
:26:09. > :26:15.Do you think you can do both? It is difficult to achieve. Foreign
:26:16. > :26:19.students, it is ridiculous to count those in our figures. It is a good
:26:20. > :26:23.thing for people to come and study in our universities. They bring in
:26:24. > :26:27.cash from overseas and should not be counted. I think this is cheap
:26:28. > :26:31.politics because you are trying to pretend to people that you can fix
:26:32. > :26:36.some very real problems in their lives by having an arbiter 's target
:26:37. > :26:41.-- by having an arbitrary target around numbers. It will lead a much
:26:42. > :26:46.smaller working age population trying to pay for the welfare state
:26:47. > :26:51.that supports the very old and the very young. Not only are you going
:26:52. > :26:54.into that with no plan about how to mitigate the damage to public
:26:55. > :26:57.services, but you're not saying anything about investing in young
:26:58. > :27:01.people in towns like mine so that they can compete in the system we
:27:02. > :27:07.have. We want to invest in young people to give them the skills they
:27:08. > :27:12.need to get these jobs. Why are you not doing it? We have to respond to
:27:13. > :27:16.public concern about unsustainable levels of migration. I am not saying
:27:17. > :27:24.that we should bring it down to zero. Of course, migration should
:27:25. > :27:26.continue and it can help our economy, but it needs to be a
:27:27. > :27:28.sustainable levels if we are to respond to the result of the
:27:29. > :27:31.referendum and the public concern that there is. Our job as
:27:32. > :27:34.politicians is to solve some of the real problems this country has. You
:27:35. > :27:37.are arguing, essentially, that all you want to do is respond to
:27:38. > :27:42.something you have heard rather than to lead the country forward. No, I
:27:43. > :27:47.am saying I was elected on a manifesto that made a commitment to
:27:48. > :28:00.bring down net migration. We will have to leave it there, except just
:28:01. > :28:05.briefly to ask, Emily Thornbury suggested that the Labour policy was
:28:06. > :28:09.that Labour will not frustrate the will of the people as a result of
:28:10. > :28:14.the referendum and will not try to blog article 50 being triggered?
:28:15. > :28:18.Yesterday I said I did not think there was a strong appetite in the
:28:19. > :28:24.country for a second referendum, certainly not from my constituents.
:28:25. > :28:27.From Labour MPs? Most feel that we had the referendum, made the
:28:28. > :28:32.argument and lost, so now our job is to get on with it. Why is Emily
:28:33. > :28:41.Thornbury not being clear about the Labour line? She did what a lot of
:28:42. > :28:45.politicians do, she answered the question she wanted to rather than
:28:46. > :28:51.the point that was being made. Our job five months after the vote is to
:28:52. > :28:55.make sure that we have some say in what Britain looks like after Brexit
:28:56. > :28:57.rather than rehashing old arguments. Thank you.
:28:58. > :29:00.Now it's time for our daily quiz, which today is all about Francois
:29:01. > :29:02.Fillon, the Thatcher-admiring, car-loving, French Republican
:29:03. > :29:04.presidential candidate, who is married to a Brit.
:29:05. > :29:07.But what is Monsieur Fillon's nickname?
:29:08. > :29:22.At the end of the show, Stephen and Lisa will give us
:29:23. > :29:32.I didn't know what it was I love. -- what it was either.
:29:33. > :29:34.It's the band you've always wanted to see.
:29:35. > :29:37.You get online as soon as the tickets are released -
:29:38. > :29:40.Have genuine fans really snapped up the tickets that quickly,
:29:41. > :29:44.or are ticket touts buying them in bulk so they can sell them
:29:45. > :29:46.on at much higher prices on ticket reselling websites?
:29:47. > :29:48.That's what many genuine fans suspect and now there's a campaign
:29:49. > :29:53.Josh Franceschi of the band You Me At Six went back to one
:29:54. > :29:55.of his favourite venues, Alexandra Palace in North London,
:29:56. > :29:58.And I should warn you that there is some flash
:29:59. > :30:17.Rock 'n' roll is about breaking boundaries, about enjoying yourself,
:30:18. > :30:20.but if there's one thing threatening the new music industry
:30:21. > :30:30.I don't just mean the people standing outside the venue.
:30:31. > :30:32.That's illegal without a street trading
:30:33. > :30:37.I'm talking about online ticket touts, individuals or
:30:38. > :30:41.businesses who scalp masses of tickets, often
:30:42. > :30:43.using a specialised botnet software so they can
:30:44. > :30:49.When a gig is announced, fans head to primary
:30:50. > :30:51.ticket websites, often to be told it's sold out,
:30:52. > :30:56.It's the touts who bought them, forcing fans
:30:57. > :30:59.to pay hiked up prices on secondary websites.
:31:00. > :31:02.These secondary websites masquerade as fan-to-fan
:31:03. > :31:07.marketplaces, but as we highlighted at the Culture, Media and Sport
:31:08. > :31:11.select committee, they are all dependent on hard-core ticket touts.
:31:12. > :31:14.One of Stub Hub's major clients was recently outed as a man
:31:15. > :31:16.from Quebec who is still scalping and reselling
:31:17. > :31:21.Enough is enough - genuine fans are being priced
:31:22. > :31:26.Music lovers are consumers too, and consumers have rights.
:31:27. > :31:28.In New York, legislation is in place.
:31:29. > :31:39.Those profiteering should face prison or a fine.
:31:40. > :31:43.This goes beyond consumer protection.
:31:44. > :31:48.A number of music businesses have come together
:31:49. > :31:51.to fight back with a new campaign called the Fan Fair Alliance.
:31:52. > :31:53.This is an industry that's already suffering
:31:54. > :31:56.from a lack of money coming into it in other ways.
:31:57. > :31:58.If we want the live community to thrive, we need this to
:31:59. > :32:09.And we're also joined by the Conservative MP Nigel Adams,
:32:10. > :32:26.Ticket resale sites provided important service if you miss out
:32:27. > :32:31.first time around? They serve a purpose but I think it is about
:32:32. > :32:40.there being a cut-off point as to how far prices can be inflated. Some
:32:41. > :32:45.websites offer resale mechanisms but that is at face value and there are
:32:46. > :32:50.websites a little bit more, what we would say at the fairer end of the
:32:51. > :33:00.scale. Websites charging 20 times the resale price. Give me an
:33:01. > :33:04.example? Tickets can go for? Way into their thousands. There was a
:33:05. > :33:10.study with Phil Collins and I believe it got to ?4000 for two
:33:11. > :33:16.tickets. Were they sold out in 15 seconds or something? How can that
:33:17. > :33:20.be? I think we have all tried to get tickets, I have tried with a couple
:33:21. > :33:26.of iPads and failed recently to do it. Should there be technology to
:33:27. > :33:30.stop people buying in bulk? A lot of the primary ticket companies have
:33:31. > :33:35.technology to try to stop it happening but it is a technological
:33:36. > :33:43.arms race and the touts are very good at it. They have these bots
:33:44. > :33:48.that hoover up hundreds and thousands of tickets and within
:33:49. > :33:52.seconds they are for resale on other websites at inflated prices. Will
:33:53. > :33:58.legislation do what you want it to do if it is about a technological
:33:59. > :34:06.arms race? I believe it will. Josh has been fantastically supportive.
:34:07. > :34:09.He took it upon himself to sell tickets director fans across the
:34:10. > :34:16.counter in a shop. There is a problem. It is not a silver bullet
:34:17. > :34:20.to ban the bots and make it an offence, but they do it in certain
:34:21. > :34:26.states in America where you can now go to prison. I want to make it an
:34:27. > :34:31.imprisonable offence as well but there are other things we need to do
:34:32. > :34:36.as well. Do you support that? Yes. For people to go to jail, for there
:34:37. > :34:41.to be a prison sentence, do you think it will work as a deterrent? I
:34:42. > :34:47.think it will work as a deterrent. It is not about me trying to lock
:34:48. > :34:52.people up, it is trying to get the situation changed for fans of live
:34:53. > :34:58.music because daily I interact with the fine base, whether face-to-face
:34:59. > :35:01.or through social media -- fan base. Many are priced out of the equation
:35:02. > :35:08.and that is my fundamental issue with it. A ticket resale company
:35:09. > :35:18.mentioned in the film said they support legislation to stop bots
:35:19. > :35:24.misuse. They say they have consistently supported legislation
:35:25. > :35:29.and gave evidence to a committee in the Senate on the subject. They go
:35:30. > :35:35.on to say legislation alone cannot solve it so what else needs to be
:35:36. > :35:41.done? I think we need to be looking at how tickets are released and in
:35:42. > :35:45.some cases you have artists and managers who might be complicit.
:35:46. > :35:49.Touting has been going on since the Romans have put on shows in the
:35:50. > :35:55.Colosseum but we will not entirely move this away but we need to take
:35:56. > :36:01.action. Having this as an offence is a step in the right direction. Is it
:36:02. > :36:06.a good idea? Yes, it sounds exactly right. It is striking a balance,
:36:07. > :36:09.because nobody wants to stop the process of selling on a ticket you
:36:10. > :36:16.might not need and even getting a little bit of a margin. It is making
:36:17. > :36:20.sure people cannot profiteer and in terms of hoovering up tickets,
:36:21. > :36:28.surely that is a crime. Is it a pressing issue for you? Yes, along
:36:29. > :36:32.with the work Nigel has done, my colleague Sharon Hodgson has
:36:33. > :36:38.campaigned on this and that is because for our constituents it
:36:39. > :36:42.matters. It is not just the fan experience, but it also strangles an
:36:43. > :36:45.industry that is important for Britain and brings pleasure to a lot
:36:46. > :36:49.of people and these people are parasites and need to be dealt with,
:36:50. > :36:57.so well done. Have you tried to get tickets? I have been unsuccessful. I
:36:58. > :37:02.got my Britney tickets but had to use three phones. I got through in
:37:03. > :37:08.20 minutes. I can confirm she was brilliant. It was worthwhile? I lost
:37:09. > :37:14.out on Kate Bush. Should ministers get behind this? Absolutely. The
:37:15. > :37:18.Culture Secretary takes it seriously and is having meetings today
:37:19. > :37:24.regarding law enforcement of this and I meet her on Wednesday at the
:37:25. > :37:28.Department with industry representatives. We have an
:37:29. > :37:33.opportunity. We will debate it a day in the report stage of the digital
:37:34. > :37:39.economy Bill. It is a cross-party supported issue. The only people
:37:40. > :37:44.presumably not in favour are the stand Flashmans of this world. You
:37:45. > :37:49.are confident this will make a difference? I am and I think more
:37:50. > :37:53.artists should speak up for their fans on this issue. It does not take
:37:54. > :37:57.much to put your name on something and it is worth putting your name
:37:58. > :38:00.on. We are confident it will be passed.
:38:01. > :38:04.Now, the big question this week is, which British politicians will be
:38:05. > :38:06.boarding a plane to Havana to attend Fidel Castro's funeral?
:38:07. > :38:11.Jeremy Corbyn - probably, Boris Johnson - maybe.
:38:12. > :38:15.But what's in store for those of us marooned on a North Atlantic rather
:38:16. > :38:19.Today, Theresa May hosts the Polish Prime Minister
:38:20. > :38:22.at Downing Street in the latest bilateral meeting with EU leaders
:38:23. > :38:26.before formal Brexit negotiations start next year.
:38:27. > :38:29.They'll also discuss the deployment of British troops
:38:30. > :38:36.On Tuesday, the government will publish a Green Paper
:38:37. > :38:40.on corporate governance that will include proposals to make
:38:41. > :38:42.companies publish information on the the ratio between their
:38:43. > :38:48.On Wednesday, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will meet
:38:49. > :38:55.And Thursday is the by-election in Richmond Park in south-west
:38:56. > :38:57.London, which was triggered by the resignation of Zac Goldsmith
:38:58. > :39:04.following the government's decision to back a third runway a Heathrow.
:39:05. > :39:06.We're joined now by the joint political editor of the Guardian,
:39:07. > :39:10.Heather Stewart, and Jim Waterson of Buzzfeed.
:39:11. > :39:20.Welcome. Nick Clegg has said the Richmond by-election result if the
:39:21. > :39:26.Lib Dems win could mark a turning point in the government's direction
:39:27. > :39:29.on Brexit, do you agree? Zac Goldsmith triggered the by-election,
:39:30. > :39:36.resigning over Heathrow but no candidate is standing who would back
:39:37. > :39:39.the third runway so it has become about Brexit and an opportunity for
:39:40. > :39:45.the Liberal Democrats to prove they can turn people'sanguish about what
:39:46. > :39:49.is going into an electoral fight back for them but it remains to be
:39:50. > :39:53.seen whether they can do so but they have thrown the kitchen sink at it.
:39:54. > :40:02.I do not know how many invitations to go down... Every single day. We
:40:03. > :40:12.will see. If they won, would it marked a seismic change? It would
:40:13. > :40:17.increase their number of MPs by one. The only way is up for them because
:40:18. > :40:21.they are in a terrible position but there is optimism if you talk to
:40:22. > :40:26.them. They say you have to be a bit mad to be Lib Dem at the moment but
:40:27. > :40:33.it is fun. We are starting to break in suburban Lib Dem Tory seats. And
:40:34. > :40:38.some of the Labour suburban seats. They are going for suburban seats
:40:39. > :40:42.where previously Lib Dems could think of getting MPs. Richmond, they
:40:43. > :40:49.have a very good chance. On Brexit will it change the terms? I'm not
:40:50. > :40:55.sure it will put the pressure on Theresa May at the moment is to give
:40:56. > :41:00.us more detail and information. She is saying no running commentary. But
:41:01. > :41:03.a lot of politicians are giving us a running commentary from the other
:41:04. > :41:07.side of the channel but if the Lib Dems perform strongly it would put a
:41:08. > :41:11.certain amount of pressure on Theresa May and tell us more about
:41:12. > :41:15.how she will handle this and perhaps to retain a closer relationship but
:41:16. > :41:21.she has her backbenchers shouting saying, let's do it now. One of the
:41:22. > :41:26.other issues she made prominent when she became leader and Prime Minister
:41:27. > :41:31.was corporate governance. Workers on boards. As she abandoned her
:41:32. > :41:38.promises? She said she would like to see workers on boards of companies.
:41:39. > :41:43.Has it gone? We will have to see what is in the consultation but
:41:44. > :41:46.potentially we are less likely to see one of your mates elevated to
:41:47. > :41:49.board level and sitting around having coffee with the chairman
:41:50. > :41:54.discussing the future of the company. The bit that is interesting
:41:55. > :41:57.is whether they will introduce public pay ratios so you will see
:41:58. > :42:02.how much you earn compared to the boss, or how much the average pay in
:42:03. > :42:06.the organisation is, which Vince Cable proposed in the coalition but
:42:07. > :42:16.dropped when he was told Goldman Sachs would look more equal than at
:42:17. > :42:22.Waitrose or John Lewis. Why do you think she seems to be backing away
:42:23. > :42:28.from some of these issues. It is a short period in which to perform a
:42:29. > :42:33.U-turn but I think she is anxious about business reaction. There was a
:42:34. > :42:39.big business backlash after her conference speech when she appeared
:42:40. > :42:44.to signal a more interventionist approach, with Ed Miliband type
:42:45. > :42:48.policies. Businesses are anxious anyway because of Brexit and
:42:49. > :42:51.uncertainties so there is some nervousness but it is rapid to have
:42:52. > :42:57.proposed these things and be rowing back already. What about Fidel
:42:58. > :43:03.Castro? Who will go? Should Jeremy Corbyn go? He wants to. Jeremy
:43:04. > :43:08.Corbyn probably never dream team would be considered for an invite to
:43:09. > :43:12.Fidel Castro's funeral and now he has this opportunity and he is told
:43:13. > :43:16.he is not necessarily allowed to take it because it might make it
:43:17. > :43:26.look bad for his party. I feel sorry for this guy. His chance to get over
:43:27. > :43:31.their and get stuck in. Now he has MPs telling him it would be wildly
:43:32. > :43:38.inappropriate. What does Lisa Nandy say? Should he go? I would not go
:43:39. > :43:42.out of respect for people who have died or suffered under Castro but we
:43:43. > :43:48.owe it to them and the rest of the world to take a proper assessment of
:43:49. > :43:53.Castro's legacy. How was it this guy who has been criticised rightly by
:43:54. > :43:58.human rights organisations for the brutality of his regime also came to
:43:59. > :44:02.be held as a hero by Nelson Mandela? To understand that you have to
:44:03. > :44:07.understand the role the US has played against Cuban people and
:44:08. > :44:12.their interests. What I have seen in the last few days is so many people
:44:13. > :44:16.trying to take the complexity out of politics and it is tempting to do
:44:17. > :44:20.but ultimately a destructive thing to do. Many people suffered and lost
:44:21. > :44:25.their lives while Fidel Castro was in power and it is more complicated
:44:26. > :44:31.than it looks. There is a David and Goliath tale in terms of how Cuba
:44:32. > :44:36.managed to hold America to ransom. You should the British Government
:44:37. > :44:40.send? I am sure the Foreign Office have protocols. They will be reading
:44:41. > :44:47.them. The correct rank of minister to go. Not Boris, please. It
:44:48. > :44:51.probably will not be Boris. It is right we should send somebody but we
:44:52. > :44:55.should do it being absolutely clear that this is a man who represented
:44:56. > :45:00.an ideology that cause destruction not just in Cuba but around the
:45:01. > :45:02.world, he imprisoned thousands, murdered his own citizens, no need
:45:03. > :45:05.to shed a tear for him. Let's pick up on one of those
:45:06. > :45:07.stories with our guests here in the studio -
:45:08. > :45:10.the proposals to force companies to publish information
:45:11. > :45:11.about the difference between the highest
:45:12. > :45:13.and lowest paid employees. It's been one of the themes
:45:14. > :45:15.of Theresa May's premiership. Here's what she said on the subject
:45:16. > :45:18.at the launch of her leadership bid The FTSE, for example,
:45:19. > :45:25.is trading at about the same level it was 18 years ago,
:45:26. > :45:27.and it's nearly 10% below its Yet, in the same period,
:45:28. > :45:31.executive pay has more than trebled, and there is an irrational,
:45:32. > :45:34.unhealthy and growing gap between what these companies
:45:35. > :45:36.pay their workers and what So, as part of the changes
:45:37. > :45:43.I want to make to corporate governance, I want to make
:45:44. > :45:46.shareholder votes on corporate pay I want to see more transparency,
:45:47. > :45:53.including the full disclosure of bonus targets and the publication
:45:54. > :45:56.of pay multiple data - that is, the ratio between CEOs' pay
:45:57. > :46:09.and the Theresa May said it, it's the
:46:10. > :46:12.difference between the earnings of the chief executive and the average
:46:13. > :46:19.employee when it came to forcing companies to publish pay ratios, not
:46:20. > :46:24.the lowest and the highs, necessarily. Do you support that,
:46:25. > :46:29.Stephen Crabb? I like the idea, not because I think it will achieve a
:46:30. > :46:33.huge amount on its own. It represents an approach we are taking
:46:34. > :46:38.to the corporate world, saying, look, in the 21st century we need a
:46:39. > :46:41.more responsible capitalism in our society, we want business is doing
:46:42. > :46:47.the right thing. By using the pay ratio as a lever for shining a light
:46:48. > :46:51.on wider business practices, that is really important. As we just heard,
:46:52. > :46:58.and no doubt some of the companies would argue this, it can create
:46:59. > :47:02.misleading comparisons if in the end you distort to some extent what the
:47:03. > :47:07.pay ratio is between the highest and the average employee. Who would that
:47:08. > :47:12.benefit? Sure, there will be imperfections. It is not a perfect
:47:13. > :47:15.tool, but the very fact that you are encouraging businesses to do it
:47:16. > :47:19.means that they will have to have that conversation at board level,
:47:20. > :47:25.have that discussion in the company, and that is a healthy thing. Do you
:47:26. > :47:30.think it is a good idea? Theresa May talked about average pay is being
:47:31. > :47:33.compared to the highest pay, which cuts out what is happening at the
:47:34. > :47:38.bottom of the scale. The reason it is important is not just because
:47:39. > :47:42.there are huge gaps in wealth in the country but because businesses that
:47:43. > :47:46.try to take all their employees with them, reinvest in local communities
:47:47. > :47:50.and make sure they put pounds in the pockets of the people who spend
:47:51. > :47:55.them, these are the businesses that tend to do well and help build the
:47:56. > :47:59.economy. It is about a long-term business approach, not a quick,
:48:00. > :48:03.short term gain approach, which has been damaging before. It is
:48:04. > :48:06.important that she gets the detail right. What about the point that if
:48:07. > :48:15.you cannot take businesses with you and you alienate them, and a lot of
:48:16. > :48:21.people argue she is moving away from her original rhetoric, is the tone.
:48:22. > :48:31.Businesses did not like it. There are businesses the other day, such
:48:32. > :48:36.as Lidl the other day saying they would pay the living wage. There are
:48:37. > :48:38.companies that want to invest in the workforce and put something back
:48:39. > :48:45.into the community, and those are the ones that Prime Minister should
:48:46. > :48:50.be supporting. Company should publish the pay of its top earner
:48:51. > :48:54.compared to its average employee and if it can be justified by
:48:55. > :49:09.performance, they would have nothing to fear. Who said that? Ed Miliband?
:49:10. > :49:16.Yes. How about this - employees should be on remuneration
:49:17. > :49:22.committees. Same guy? The Labour manifesto. So the Conservative Party
:49:23. > :49:26.has shamelessly stolen labour ideas, ideas which you criticised the
:49:27. > :49:31.separately when they were suggested. It is about responding to what
:49:32. > :49:35.voters are saying. We did not spend the month in the referendum campaign
:49:36. > :49:39.talking just about Europe. We talked about jobs, people's working lives
:49:40. > :49:45.and other things they felt discontent about. This is one of the
:49:46. > :49:48.things we have taken from that. Theresa May talked about this during
:49:49. > :49:53.the leadership campaign, but so did other people back in July. It is
:49:54. > :50:00.healthy. Except that Theresa May is now backing away from some of those
:50:01. > :50:04.ideas she was aping from Labour. We will wait and see in the Green
:50:05. > :50:11.paper. It should be the start of a wide-ranging discussion. Ed Miliband
:50:12. > :50:18.is having some fun with his tweets. What is your response? Ed is having
:50:19. > :50:24.a bit of fun there. Let's look at what is in the Green paper tomorrow.
:50:25. > :50:28.Lisa is right - the vast majority of businesses in the country are run by
:50:29. > :50:33.decent people looking to great value for the company and for the wider
:50:34. > :50:43.economy. We want to share the spotlight on the things that need
:50:44. > :50:46.improved. Like putting workers on the board? That sounded like a
:50:47. > :50:52.gimmick, to be honest. I am interested in how we can strengthen
:50:53. > :50:58.workers' voices within the company. I am impressed in some companies by
:50:59. > :51:02.how good relations are between the bosses and the unions. It's a
:51:03. > :51:05.gimmick? It is patronising to say you want to give workers a voice but
:51:06. > :51:11.shut them out of the boardroom. This is about restoring power to workers
:51:12. > :51:16.over the things that affect their lives will stop workers in
:51:17. > :51:21.companies, as most decent business leaders will tell you, are the
:51:22. > :51:24.greatest asset that any company has. They are the people who drive the
:51:25. > :51:28.company and build the wealth that is then reinvested in the company and
:51:29. > :51:34.which lines the pockets of shareholders too. Are there other
:51:35. > :51:38.ways of giving employees a voice other than putting them on the
:51:39. > :51:44.board? There are lots of ways. The co-op model, where the company is
:51:45. > :51:48.actually owned by the workforce and decisions are made cooperatively
:51:49. > :51:51.between those workers and the management. Trade unions are another
:51:52. > :52:00.way that you give workers a strong voice. There are lots of things that
:52:01. > :52:07.can be done. The problem with what Theresa May is doing is that she is
:52:08. > :52:13.willing the ends but will not countenance the means. These were
:52:14. > :52:15.considered anti-business when Labour suggested them but they are sensible
:52:16. > :52:20.and reasonable when the Conservatives do? You have a more
:52:21. > :52:25.sensible discussion with business when you have Conservatives in
:52:26. > :52:34.office generally. I will give you the last word. Is that true? This is
:52:35. > :52:39.such an outdated point of view. This is a party formed by and for working
:52:40. > :52:46.people. We have strong relationships up and down the country. We believe
:52:47. > :52:48.it there. Now, if you were watching
:52:49. > :52:51.the programme a couple of weeks ago you will have heard the song that's
:52:52. > :52:58.surely to a shoo-in you will have heard the song that's
:52:59. > :53:01.surely to be a shoo-in No, not James Corden or a re-release
:53:02. > :53:04.of Leonard Cohen's Halleluiah, I speak, of course, of the "JC
:53:05. > :53:08.for PM" track written and performed But we can now reveal exclusively
:53:09. > :53:12.on this programme that Yes, the team behind the satirical
:53:13. > :53:15.play "Corbyn: The Musical" are releasing one of the tracks just
:53:16. > :53:18.in time for Christmas. # I didn't sell out
:53:19. > :53:22.I didn't give in # Don't believe in borders
:53:23. > :53:33.Austerity is mean # I'll veto a state funeral
:53:34. > :53:35.For Her Majesty the Queen # The protesters are in charge
:53:36. > :53:39.We've occupied the state # I'm a governmental
:53:40. > :53:41.virgin # I didn't sell out
:53:42. > :54:13.I didn't give in We may be revealing too much on this
:54:14. > :54:22.programme. The writer of that song and the creator of Corbyn: The
:54:23. > :54:26.Musical commie Bobby Friedman, --, Bobby Friedman, joins us now. Why
:54:27. > :54:32.are you releasing it as a Christmas single? It is for charity, which is
:54:33. > :54:37.a good thing at Christmas, but also, we saw the other song that was on
:54:38. > :54:45.the show a few weeks ago, and we thought we should give people a
:54:46. > :54:50.choice. This song is entitled You Needed A Hero, You Got Corbyn, which
:54:51. > :54:56.you could take either way. It could be in the sense that you needed a
:54:57. > :55:01.hero and you did in fact get one. It is extraordinary that one politician
:55:02. > :55:05.can generate two Christmas singles. That is the thing about Jeremy
:55:06. > :55:09.Corbyn. I would say that we have as much of a chance of getting to
:55:10. > :55:12.number one for Christmas as Jeremy Corbyn does of getting to number
:55:13. > :55:16.ten, but you never know what can happen with Jeremy Corbyn, because
:55:17. > :55:20.people are fascinated by him even if they don't necessarily want to vote
:55:21. > :55:30.for him. Will you be buying the song? And what do you think of the
:55:31. > :55:34.analysis? It's dreadful. Come on! You should have asked people to
:55:35. > :55:39.guest star in it, and then I would have bought it. Would he have taken
:55:40. > :55:46.part? I think so. Do you think there was more of an appetite in the
:55:47. > :55:53.country for a pro-Jeremy Corbyn Christmas song or an anti-Jeremy
:55:54. > :55:56.Corbyn Christmas song? I think it is a British tradition of satirising
:55:57. > :56:03.our politicians rather than an anti-song, trying to pop the balloon
:56:04. > :56:08.of pompous politicians. Go onto iTunes, where it is available now,
:56:09. > :56:18.and satirise and Pope politicians in the ribs rather than holding them up
:56:19. > :56:23.in a hagiographic way. Is there not enough satire around, Stephen?
:56:24. > :56:32.There's plenty. I thought it was a reasonable song, but not that
:56:33. > :56:36.Christmassy. There is one other song coming out for the Jo Cox
:56:37. > :56:40.Foundation. Don't be put off by the fact that politicians are singing on
:56:41. > :56:45.the song, there are real musicians as well, and it will raise money for
:56:46. > :56:50.good causes. How many politicians on that? Quite a few, they were in the
:56:51. > :56:57.choir. They have been slightly muted in favour of people who can actually
:56:58. > :57:01.sing. I can't sing. Not a note? I think I can, but that's usually
:57:02. > :57:05.after seven pints of lager. I'm sure that can be arranged!
:57:06. > :57:08.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:57:09. > :57:10.The question was: What is Francois Fillon's nickname?
:57:11. > :57:13.Is it a) Monsieur Thatcher, b) Monsieur Rosbif, c)
:57:14. > :57:14.Monsieur Va-Va Voom, or d) Monsieur Pee-Pee?
:57:15. > :57:27.This has foxed the two of you. Have a guess. It might be too obvious.
:57:28. > :57:33.Miss your -- miss Apparently, he often disappears
:57:34. > :57:55.to the loo when things get Let's look at the more serious angle
:57:56. > :58:00.on the French presidential elections. The Socialists will be
:58:01. > :58:06.nowhere in this - why? What we have seen across Europe, and in the
:58:07. > :58:13.United States, recently is a similar phenomenon, where you have the far
:58:14. > :58:17.right offering cheap and easy solutions, to turn the clock back to
:58:18. > :58:22.the 1970s and saying they can put everything back to how it was, then
:58:23. > :58:26.on the other hand, you've got the sort of radical left saying, we can
:58:27. > :58:29.do everything, we can sort this out. In the middle, you have the
:58:30. > :58:33.centre-left in all of those countries that has been squeezed by
:58:34. > :58:42.those two. Things Critics might say they have failed. The centre-left
:58:43. > :58:49.has failed to inspire people in recent years. Briefly, are you a fan
:58:50. > :58:53.of Francois Fillon? I think France needs a shake-up and he is the guy
:58:54. > :58:55.to do it. Think it very much, and thank you to both of you for being
:58:56. > :58:56.our guess. The one o'clock news is starting
:58:57. > :59:00.over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow
:59:01. > :59:04.with all the big political stories MUSIC: Silly Games
:59:05. > :59:07.by Janet Kay Mum, we're supposed to be
:59:08. > :59:11.making our own, like tape. I used to do a joke about waiting
:59:12. > :59:13.for Lenny Henry to die so I could get on TV.
:59:14. > :59:15.LAUGHTER I hate that joke. What is that
:59:16. > :59:19.joke? "There can be only one."