:00:36. > :00:38.Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.Theresa May fleshes out her vision for a new "shared society"
:00:42. > :00:48.in the UK, with a pledge to end the stigma of mental illness.
:00:49. > :00:50.The Prime Minister also says she wants the best possible deal
:00:51. > :00:53.for trading with the EU's single market and says she's ruling
:00:54. > :00:58.nothing in or out before starting Brexit talks.
:00:59. > :01:00.After the Red Cross warns that hospitals in England are facing
:01:01. > :01:03.a "humanitarian crisis", Labour call on the Government
:01:04. > :01:08.to pump an extra ?700 million into the NHS this winter.
:01:09. > :01:13.We'll discuss whether extra cash is the answer.
:01:14. > :01:16.And we'll hear from the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall,
:01:17. > :01:19.on his ambition to be the "guard dogs of Brexit", and bring back
:01:20. > :01:31.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:32. > :01:34.of the programme today, the Labour MP Lucy Powell and
:01:35. > :01:43.In the last hour, Theresa May has been making the first of a series
:01:44. > :01:45.of speeches which are expected to flesh out the Prime Minister's
:01:46. > :01:54.Yesterday Mrs May talked about her desire for a "shared society",
:01:55. > :01:57.where government takes a more active role to help people who face
:01:58. > :02:01.The PM this morning announced several new measures to help people
:02:02. > :02:06.For too long, mental illness has been something of a hidden
:02:07. > :02:10.injustice in our country, shrouded in a completely
:02:11. > :02:15.unacceptable stigma and dangerously disregarded as a secondary issue
:02:16. > :02:21.Left unaddressed, it destroys lives, separates people from each other,
:02:22. > :02:25.and deepens the divisions within our society.
:02:26. > :02:27.Changing this goes right to the heart of our humanity,
:02:28. > :02:32.to the heart of the kind of country we are, the attitudes we hold
:02:33. > :02:48.I'm joined now by our political correspondent, Vicki Young.
:02:49. > :02:53.Can you elaborate on what the "shared society" means? The emphasis
:02:54. > :02:57.has been on mental health today but no detailed new policies. It's the
:02:58. > :03:02.broader vision that is interesting. Theresa May calling it a new
:03:03. > :03:06.philosophy. I think the idea is that because Brexit will of course
:03:07. > :03:10.dominate her premiership, she is here in the first big speech of the
:03:11. > :03:17.New Year, trying to set out what she feels about other things, too. In
:03:18. > :03:22.the "shared society" I think she is outlining that people feel we have a
:03:23. > :03:26.divided nation, that the government often isn't working for them, people
:03:27. > :03:32.feel. She wants to change all that. She talks about not just helping the
:03:33. > :03:36.very poorest. We've heard before about the "Just about managing",
:03:37. > :03:40.that's where her emphasis will be. The question is always how do you do
:03:41. > :03:45.this. It's all very well saying we are going to be more interventionist
:03:46. > :03:48.and the state will step up and be more effective, but how can they
:03:49. > :03:53.actually do this? How do you make people feel part of this community,
:03:54. > :03:58.and make sure you help them, when frankly there isn't a lot of money
:03:59. > :04:03.around. How then does she seek to transform the provision for mental
:04:04. > :04:08.health? She is talking very much about best practice. Some would say
:04:09. > :04:13.that by making mental health of this speech, in itself it does raise the
:04:14. > :04:20.profile. We heard before from ministers about parity, about people
:04:21. > :04:23.looking at physical health and thinking the same about mental
:04:24. > :04:27.health. How you do that is difficult. She's talked about young
:04:28. > :04:31.people, schools, making sure teachers are aware and able to
:04:32. > :04:38.educate children, to make sure it's not just about going into hospital.
:04:39. > :04:43.Many will say, without new funding, the fact that a lot of health care
:04:44. > :04:48.money has been used for physical health because hospitals feel they
:04:49. > :04:52.are so short of cash, that is a major problem and something she will
:04:53. > :04:56.have to address, and something the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt will
:04:57. > :04:59.talk about today. He is making a statement this afternoon. Thank you.
:05:00. > :05:02.We did ask for an interview with someone from the government
:05:03. > :05:05.on Theresa May's speech, but no minister was available.
:05:06. > :05:12.Nadhim Zahawi, do we think that provision for mental health should
:05:13. > :05:17.be treated and put on an equal footing with physical disorders?
:05:18. > :05:21.That is the commitment that we have made, to bring it to parity. What is
:05:22. > :05:26.important about today is the Prime Minister, the big boss of the
:05:27. > :05:31.country, sets out her priorities. I think when the boss does that, you
:05:32. > :05:37.tend to get the machine moving behind it. There will be more
:05:38. > :05:41.details from Jeremy Hunt on this. What is really encouraging is
:05:42. > :05:47.support for schools. Most mental health sets in below the age of 18.
:05:48. > :05:52.If you can catch it early on it makes a huge difference to the
:05:53. > :05:59.outcomes. Is support, I think the budget is around ?70 million, of
:06:00. > :06:07.on-line help. Rather than going to see their GP, people can get online
:06:08. > :06:12.help. There is a series of measures. A couple of years ago we clearly set
:06:13. > :06:16.out that we didn't want people with mental health problems ending up in
:06:17. > :06:22.police cells. That has been cut by 50%. It's the prioritisation that
:06:23. > :06:27.actually makes a difference, but it's a long haul. Let me manage
:06:28. > :06:32.expectations. It is a long haul. The direction of travel is we will get
:06:33. > :06:36.to parity. I don't know about your statistic about the number of people
:06:37. > :06:43.ending up in police cells has been cut by 50%. It has. If you want to
:06:44. > :06:48.put it on parity, surely you have to give more funding than ?67 million?
:06:49. > :06:52.If you look at the overall funding to the NHS... Let's look at the
:06:53. > :06:57.commitment to mental health. Our position set up by Jeremy and the
:06:58. > :07:00.government, by the way, David Cameron's government set this out in
:07:01. > :07:04.the first place and Theresa May is following through. Is this rhetoric
:07:05. > :07:08.or is this going to be a proper commitment that will transform the
:07:09. > :07:12.provision of mental health? Our school is really the right place to
:07:13. > :07:16.actually start looking seriously at mental health issues? Ten teachers
:07:17. > :07:19.have enough to do? They certainly do. Of course it's the right place
:07:20. > :07:24.to start but you've got to see this in context. This feels like another
:07:25. > :07:33.fact platitude from the Prime Minister, that bears no fixation in
:07:34. > :07:38.reality. Why not? Nadhim Zahawi is saying by stating it, by making it a
:07:39. > :07:42.priority, you may find that good practice follows. Let's look at two
:07:43. > :07:48.cases in point. Over the last six years we've seen huge cuts to mental
:07:49. > :07:51.health services. We've got over 6000 fewer mental health nurses today
:07:52. > :07:55.than we did six years ago. This is quite a big cut to the mental health
:07:56. > :07:58.budget. The second issue about schools, the context of what is
:07:59. > :08:05.happening in schools today is that over the course of this Parliament,
:08:06. > :08:08.every school in the country has got to find 8% worth of cuts to their
:08:09. > :08:14.school budgets. There is a fantastic mental health charity, The Place To
:08:15. > :08:17.Be, that does exactly this kind of support. That's the first thing
:08:18. > :08:21.headteachers are telling me they've got to cut. They've got to find
:08:22. > :08:26.these cuts to their school. You can have these big speeches but if they
:08:27. > :08:31.aren't backed up by actual money, actual policy, and seeing the
:08:32. > :08:35.context in which our public health and teachers are operating in, they
:08:36. > :08:38.will mean nothing. Training teachers in mental health first aid and
:08:39. > :08:45.crisis cafes which is one of the ideas being put forward, is that a
:08:46. > :08:49.like-for-like substitute for properly trained mental health
:08:50. > :08:52.nurses that have been cut? Of course not. I don't accept that mental
:08:53. > :09:00.health nurses have been cut, overall... That's a king 's fund
:09:01. > :09:05.figure. It's unfortunate that you are turning this into a political
:09:06. > :09:09.issue. It's a factual issue. Have the number of mental health nurses
:09:10. > :09:16.being cut or not? I don't believe they have. They increase the number
:09:17. > :09:25.of nurses and doctors. We will check that during the programme. It's a
:09:26. > :09:31.figure from The King's Fund. If the. Is it good enough to have crisis
:09:32. > :09:36.cafes for people to go to if they have mental health problems? I think
:09:37. > :09:39.it is good that we have people in school who have the ability to
:09:40. > :09:42.identify early on if children are depressed or have mental health
:09:43. > :09:47.issues. It's good to have crisis cafes. I have similar provision in
:09:48. > :09:50.my constituency and it works really well, because people actually want
:09:51. > :09:59.an informal way to talk about this stuff. It's exactly what's going.
:10:00. > :10:03.Theresa May is raising its profile. She's put her hand up and said let's
:10:04. > :10:06.do this on a cross-party basis. What you get today is party politics
:10:07. > :10:13.being played with the health service which I think is completely wrong.
:10:14. > :10:17.It was ever thus on both sides. I applaud any attempt to raise the
:10:18. > :10:21.issue of mental health. I said that at the beginning. I'm sorry, you
:10:22. > :10:27.have to accept what is actually happening on the ground. In my
:10:28. > :10:33.constituency, Moss side, areas of the country where you've got 50% of
:10:34. > :10:37.children with child poverty, many mental health issues across all
:10:38. > :10:42.different backgrounds, webby headteachers are telling me they are
:10:43. > :10:47.having to cut initiatives like The Place To Be, which is exactly what
:10:48. > :10:51.Theresa May is talking about. I will support cross-party but it's got to
:10:52. > :10:56.be rooted in reality and backed up by actual plans and money to deliver
:10:57. > :11:01.it. Let's look more broadly at what Theresa May has been talking about.
:11:02. > :11:04.This idea of a "shared society", looking after people who are just
:11:05. > :11:08.about managing. And talking about the role of the state. Issue right
:11:09. > :11:13.to call for more state intervention as a Tory Prime Minister to help
:11:14. > :11:16.people who have, in her words, been failed by the market? She is at the
:11:17. > :11:24.Luke Wright. In many areas, including housing, where it is right
:11:25. > :11:28.to intervene when actually the amount of housing hasn't been
:11:29. > :11:32.delivered. The market can't meet the needs of a modern economy in every
:11:33. > :11:36.way? The government has a place in the market intervene where it needs
:11:37. > :11:40.to intervene. I applaud her for doing that. If you remember her
:11:41. > :11:45.roads is every decision she will bake, she will make with those
:11:46. > :11:48.people just managing -- her words. Ed Miliband was right when he talked
:11:49. > :11:52.about the squeezed middle. That there is a group of people who have
:11:53. > :11:56.been failed by successive governments and who are struggling
:11:57. > :12:02.and she's moving into what we would call social Democratic territory,
:12:03. > :12:05.politically. She's moving into one nation Conservative territory. She's
:12:06. > :12:09.moving there because Labour aren't, they vacated. Do you accept they
:12:10. > :12:15.vacated territory that should be your party's? I don't. She's in
:12:16. > :12:18.government and we aren't so her ability to do and say things is
:12:19. > :12:23.greater than ours. I think Ed Miliband in the last parliament, his
:12:24. > :12:27.one nation agenda, his agenda around... Although he failed to win
:12:28. > :12:32.the election on that agenda. He did but these are exactly the arguments
:12:33. > :12:36.he was making, that markets in and of themselves don't work, they need
:12:37. > :12:40.intervention as well. He led that way. Sometimes history affords you
:12:41. > :12:43.more credit than you get at the time. It's something we've got to
:12:44. > :12:47.build on over the course of this Parliament. I think the
:12:48. > :12:50.Conservatives will be found out, as they are already found out by many
:12:51. > :12:55.people, because it isn't being backed up by what's happening on the
:12:56. > :12:59.ground. Although the polls don't demonstrate that. There is a bigger
:13:00. > :13:03.problem here, you see these big speeches and spins put on this new
:13:04. > :13:08.agenda of "shared society" which is pretty meaningless. It's not just
:13:09. > :13:09.about money but it's about actual delivery on the ground. We will see
:13:10. > :13:13.how the year unfolds. The question for today is all about
:13:14. > :13:17.David Cameron's breakfast habits. According to the Conservative MP,
:13:18. > :13:19.Jake Berry, who somehow knows about this, the former
:13:20. > :13:21.Prime Minister had a rather a) Freshly-squeezed orange
:13:22. > :13:26.juice with no bits. b) Having the fat
:13:27. > :13:29.removed from his bacon. Or d) having the crusts
:13:30. > :13:40.cut off his toast. I have all of those things done at
:13:41. > :13:43.breakfast time, don't you?! At the end of the show,
:13:44. > :13:46.we'll see if Nadhim and Lucy can Theresa May started
:13:47. > :13:49.the new political year with a set-piece TV interview
:13:50. > :13:52.yesterday, during which she was asked about the Government's
:13:53. > :13:54.strategy for the upcoming The Prime Minister argued that,
:13:55. > :13:57.post-Brexit, the UK will be able to control immigration,
:13:58. > :13:59.and have good trading So, what do we know
:14:00. > :14:07.about the government's plans? The PM hinted the UK is on course
:14:08. > :14:10.to leave both the single market and the customs union,
:14:11. > :14:13.saying the UK could not keep "bits The single market allows 28
:14:14. > :14:20.countries in Europe to trade with each other free of tariffs
:14:21. > :14:27.under a common set of rules. It operates on the basis of "four
:14:28. > :14:29.freedoms", the free movement from one member country to another
:14:30. > :14:32.of goods, people, While the EU's single market
:14:33. > :14:38.allows countries to trade freely with one another,
:14:39. > :14:40.the customs union imposes external However, members of
:14:41. > :14:47.the customs union can't Leaving the single market
:14:48. > :14:53.and the customs union would mean the UK needed a new trade deal
:14:54. > :14:56.with the EU. The question is how
:14:57. > :15:00.long that might take. Before he resigned last week,
:15:01. > :15:02.the UK's ambassador to the EU Sir Ivan Rogers was criticised
:15:03. > :15:05.for suggesting other EU leaders think the process
:15:06. > :15:12.will take a decade. But the Prime Minister has said it
:15:13. > :15:16.should be possible to conclude a trade deal with the bloc
:15:17. > :15:20.within two years, in parallel Meanwhile, the Government has been
:15:21. > :15:24.working on plans for free trade International Trade Secretary Liam
:15:25. > :15:28.Fox has said his department is looking in detail at plans
:15:29. > :15:30.for new deals with more than 50 countries including
:15:31. > :15:35.Brazil, China and India. There are seven "working
:15:36. > :15:39.groups" in total. Yesterday, Foreign Secretary Boris
:15:40. > :15:43.Johnson was in New York to meet several of Donald Trump's key
:15:44. > :15:45.advisers, with the prospect of a post-Brexit trade deal
:15:46. > :15:48.between the US and UK one And I'm joined now by the trade
:15:49. > :15:55.lawyer Shanker Singham. He's chair of a new commission
:15:56. > :15:58.on trade at the Legatum Institute, a thinktank that looks at economic
:15:59. > :16:10.and political freedom. welcome to the programme. Assuming
:16:11. > :16:15.that the UK does leave the single market, how easy will it be to
:16:16. > :16:18.negotiate a trade deal with the EU after Brexit? I think what you're
:16:19. > :16:23.going to see is tricking of Article 50 and withdraw. It will take a
:16:24. > :16:30.two-year process from March, assuming we trigger it in March this
:16:31. > :16:34.year. I think how long it takes to do trade deals depends on the
:16:35. > :16:37.baggage the countries have and the integrated nature of their
:16:38. > :16:43.relationship. Are ballpark guess? How long? Probably longer than a
:16:44. > :16:45.two-year period we have the triggering of Article 50 and the
:16:46. > :16:48.conclusion of the withdrawal agreement by don't think it will
:16:49. > :16:53.take a lot longer than that. Two years after that would be a
:16:54. > :16:58.reasonable amount of time. Would that be too long, four years from
:16:59. > :17:04.triggering of Article 50? You have got to step back and look at what
:17:05. > :17:09.the Prime Minister said, we've got to get the best deal possible for
:17:10. > :17:16.making sure that we control the borders, and for business, services
:17:17. > :17:22.and manufacturing. For them to have unfettered access to that market. To
:17:23. > :17:26.sit here and speculate as to... It's like sending someone to negotiate
:17:27. > :17:30.with one arm tied behind their back by saying you have to do it within
:17:31. > :17:35.two years. They have to strike the best deal. The timing is crucial
:17:36. > :17:39.because if, in two years' time, there is a limit of course
:17:40. > :17:42.negotiation with the EU, post-Article 50, there is not a
:17:43. > :17:50.trade deal negotiated, then the UK presumably in your mind falls to the
:17:51. > :17:56.trade union organisation tariffs. Timing is not crucial because we
:17:57. > :18:00.have to take a step back and look at what is the goal because if you
:18:01. > :18:03.don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. I think the
:18:04. > :18:12.government knows where it's going and Theresa May 's outline speech
:18:13. > :18:15.did that. What changed in her material yesterday? The vision. That
:18:16. > :18:20.vision is essentially free trade agreements with other countries,
:18:21. > :18:23.agreements with developing countries that require a certain amount of
:18:24. > :18:31.agricultural openers, and our own domestic productivity and consumer
:18:32. > :18:34.welfare agenda. In order to do that, not to ask yourself, to get to that
:18:35. > :18:38.point, what do I need to do now? What should I not do and there are
:18:39. > :18:43.three fundamental pillars of Brexit which outlining yesterday and they
:18:44. > :18:49.must not be eroded because if you do, you won't get to your ultimate
:18:50. > :18:52.goal. They are? We can't be part of a customs union because in order to
:18:53. > :18:56.negotiate these agreements with other countries we have to have
:18:57. > :19:00.control of our own tariffs. You are assuming we be out in the customs
:19:01. > :19:05.union and the single market? The single market is different. What you
:19:06. > :19:09.said about the 80% of our economy being services is very important
:19:10. > :19:12.because we have unique economy and you can't negotiate services unless
:19:13. > :19:15.you are able to negotiate your own domestic regulation which is why we
:19:16. > :19:22.can't be a member of the single market. That doesn't mean we don't
:19:23. > :19:26.have access to the EEA. We would seek to negotiate maximum access
:19:27. > :19:31.that we can possibly get that will be done a trade agreement and
:19:32. > :19:35.ultimately, but also in a series of interim measures at the end of the
:19:36. > :19:38.withdrawal agreement where Europe has a big interest in getting those
:19:39. > :19:43.interim measures in place than we do. Do you agree with those three
:19:44. > :19:46.pillars, coming out of the single market, out of the customs union,
:19:47. > :19:50.and it will enable the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with
:19:51. > :19:54.non-EU countries which we couldn't do if you were part of the customs
:19:55. > :19:58.union? I don't agree at all and I don't think it's what actually was
:19:59. > :20:04.the argument being put down at the time of the Brexit about either. But
:20:05. > :20:08.now, listening to Theresa May? It looks like that is what her position
:20:09. > :20:12.is but I'm not sure how other ministers will square that with the
:20:13. > :20:19.likes of Nissan who they've already made promises to about still being
:20:20. > :20:23.in the single market or having maximum access to the single market.
:20:24. > :20:28.You don't think we could get tariff free access? The issue with a single
:20:29. > :20:34.market is not just about the tariff free, but it's to ensure that there
:20:35. > :20:37.is a level playing field in terms of the regulations around the
:20:38. > :20:42.manufacture of those goods and services. That's a key issue both
:20:43. > :20:46.for our exporters and manufacturers in the UK, but also a key issue for
:20:47. > :20:52.other European countries looking to export to the UK, so I don't
:20:53. > :20:57.understand how car manufacturing and other big industries like that can
:20:58. > :21:02.continue to operate without those. How likely do you think it is that
:21:03. > :21:06.we will end up contributing to the EU budget for access to the single
:21:07. > :21:11.market? David Davis hinted that were still on the table, didn't rule it
:21:12. > :21:17.out full is up to you think we will contribute to it? Just to answer
:21:18. > :21:19.that question, the customs clearance point, the harmonisation is of
:21:20. > :21:27.regulations, that's something we will have anyway because we will
:21:28. > :21:31.conform our regulations. Customs clearance is something a lot of
:21:32. > :21:34.countries have one not members of the EU. I don't think paying for
:21:35. > :21:38.access to the single market is a good president to set. It's not
:21:39. > :21:42.something you do in a trade agreement. It has to stand or fall
:21:43. > :21:45.on its own merits so Nissan and the car companies who want access to the
:21:46. > :21:49.European market has got to make commercial sense, and it eminently
:21:50. > :21:52.does make that. If Norway and Switzerland pay into the EU budget,
:21:53. > :21:58.why would we not have to do the same? Those are two different
:21:59. > :22:05.examples. Norway is a member of the single market and Switzerland is not
:22:06. > :22:09.as many deals with the EU. We may pay for certain things, it's
:22:10. > :22:13.possible to pay for things... So we would contribute? It's a matter for
:22:14. > :22:18.negotiation of the government. The issue is, paying for access to the
:22:19. > :22:21.single market does not make sense in a commercial setting because what
:22:22. > :22:28.makes sense is having access to the single market, not only your
:22:29. > :22:31.suppliers, and your supply chains need access, but European supply
:22:32. > :22:35.chain to me that as well so it's very likely at the end of the
:22:36. > :22:38.withdrawal process there will be a series of narrowly defined interim
:22:39. > :22:42.measures including customs clearance,... So you see an interim
:22:43. > :22:47.deal question mark otherwise there would be a cliff edge? The UK
:22:48. > :22:55.economy would fall off? I don't think it's a cliff edge but a series
:22:56. > :23:00.of issues. In a negotiations... Is that semantics? Not really. You have
:23:01. > :23:03.to look at where the problems are. There are very specific areas where,
:23:04. > :23:07.if we come out of financial services, you want to have some sort
:23:08. > :23:10.of new mutual recognition and conformity assessment because there
:23:11. > :23:16.is not a mechanism for third country passport ring. That makes people
:23:17. > :23:22.feel uncertain. You want to explain that early on. European interests
:23:23. > :23:26.are as great if not greater. Of course, that's what members of the
:23:27. > :23:32.government argue, people like Nadhim. If we were no longer members
:23:33. > :23:37.of the single market had access, which body would arbitrate in the
:23:38. > :23:40.case of trade disputes? In any trade agreement, the trade agreement sets
:23:41. > :23:45.up a dispute settlement mechanism within the framework. It would be an
:23:46. > :23:50.EU UK trade agreement and the speed to be arbitrated by that. There
:23:51. > :23:54.would no longer be the European Court of Justice. No, that is what
:23:55. > :23:58.we rely on now to ensure Europe complies with its own... The
:23:59. > :24:04.mechanism would be costly for British business if they are reliant
:24:05. > :24:07.constantly on special tribunal to settle disputes, wouldn't it? Not at
:24:08. > :24:12.all, it happens in international trade all the time. There are
:24:13. > :24:15.hundreds of trade agreement who have dispute mechanisms and arbitration
:24:16. > :24:21.mechanisms and it's the normal way business is conducted in itself.
:24:22. > :24:28.It's about arbitrating between Europe and the UK and not simply to
:24:29. > :24:32.look at European law and regulation. If we look to years ahead and I know
:24:33. > :24:35.you say you don't want to speculate but the has to be some planning and
:24:36. > :24:40.I forwarded spoken on this programme to the High Commission of New
:24:41. > :24:43.Zealand, before Christmas, who would like to do a free-trade deal with
:24:44. > :24:46.the UK but were not going to talk about it until the deal has been
:24:47. > :24:51.done between the UK and the EU. That will be quite a long way down the
:24:52. > :24:56.road. Do you accept that? Lots of trade companies want to do deals
:24:57. > :25:02.with the UK. But not until after the deal. Fair enough. But a lot of
:25:03. > :25:07.preparatory work is needed. He said he would like to see the colour of
:25:08. > :25:11.the money of the deal between the UK and the EU because otherwise it
:25:12. > :25:16.would affect his membership. Of course, but what is interesting to
:25:17. > :25:20.be just heard about the position the UK, today BMW announced some of its
:25:21. > :25:27.members. The Chief Executive was asked, if the fourth largest market,
:25:28. > :25:31.yet there is no idea of them falling manufacturing out of UK because
:25:32. > :25:35.we're such an important market for companies like BMW, so let's not
:25:36. > :25:40.talk ourselves down. What the message should be is we will
:25:41. > :25:44.negotiate in good faith, we expect the EU to negotiate in good faith,
:25:45. > :25:48.which I think they will. All the noises I've heard... But it could
:25:49. > :25:55.take ten years to do the deal. Long time. Canada, that deal took a long
:25:56. > :26:01.time. You can do trade deals very quickly. But the EU and Canada was
:26:02. > :26:08.seven years. That had a lot of baggage in terms of agriculture.
:26:09. > :26:12.There's a lot of agricultural interests. Doing a deal with them?
:26:13. > :26:16.The integrated nature of our manufacturing and we are in the same
:26:17. > :26:22.thing is different for every other country. You Bob at the accepted
:26:23. > :26:26.could take a while and your example of agriculture, is there a case
:26:27. > :26:32.where, in the end, the UK will swap subsidies from the EU that back up
:26:33. > :26:37.the agricultural industry here, for us subsidising our own agriculture
:26:38. > :26:43.or should be cast farmers offer want competitive? The third pillar I
:26:44. > :26:46.mentioned, vital for Brexit, one of them is we have to be more open on
:26:47. > :26:52.agriculture to get these deals with other countries. It would be a price
:26:53. > :26:58.worth paying? It does not mean you cut farmers. It does mean there are
:26:59. > :27:04.certain things we can do. Products we don't produce, whether is no
:27:05. > :27:08.direct competitive nurse, there's no reason to have tariffs on that, we
:27:09. > :27:12.can move to a direct transfer payment for farmers, a lot we can do
:27:13. > :27:17.in terms of environment. But we would subsidise the industry? We
:27:18. > :27:24.would pay something. At least until 2020. Beyond that, we don't know.
:27:25. > :27:29.There will be more focused direct payments. About New Zealand, the New
:27:30. > :27:32.Zealand High Commissioner is negotiating so naturally they would
:27:33. > :27:38.say we want to negotiate with the UK. Fair enough. What they are
:27:39. > :27:44.looking at is to see are you going to be out of a customs union to
:27:45. > :27:47.negotiate a deal? This is not a negotiation in a vacuum. There's
:27:48. > :27:53.many other deals they can do with the EU. We don't know. They may yet
:27:54. > :27:54.tell us in the coming months by have to finish there. Thank you very
:27:55. > :27:56.much. Now, new year, new broom
:27:57. > :27:58.at the top of Ukip. Paul Nuttall became the party's
:27:59. > :28:01.third leader of the year last November, so now he's had Christmas
:28:02. > :28:04.to have a mull over things, and he's decided to stick with the job,
:28:05. > :28:07.how is he preparing the party In a moment we'll be asking him,
:28:08. > :28:11.but before that, let's remind MUSIC: "A Little Bit
:28:12. > :28:16.Independent" by Fats Waller. # A little bit independent
:28:17. > :28:18.with your smile # A little bit independent
:28:19. > :28:20.in your style...# We have achieved so much,
:28:21. > :28:24.in such little time. We forced the referendum,
:28:25. > :28:28.and you helped to win it. # A little bit
:28:29. > :28:35.independent in your walk # A little bit independent
:28:36. > :28:42.in your talk...# Well, after just 18 days in charge,
:28:43. > :28:45.it's been reported tonight that the Ukip leader Diane James
:28:46. > :28:48.is set to stand down. I'm standing in this election
:28:49. > :28:51.as the unity candidate, the candidate who wants to let
:28:52. > :28:56.bygones be bygones. I'm going to break in,
:28:57. > :28:58.because Ukip has a new leader. They've already announced it,
:28:59. > :29:00.its second new leader My call for unity has now
:29:01. > :29:33.received the biggest mandate Welcome to The Daily Politics. You
:29:34. > :29:41.said you want Ukip to be the guard dogs of Brexit, how do you plan on
:29:42. > :29:46.stopping any black -- backsliding from Theresa May given that you have
:29:47. > :29:57.only one MP and a diminishing team of NEPs? Ukip has to remain an
:29:58. > :30:02.electorally viable force. Let's be clear, what people voted for on June
:30:03. > :30:07.23 was to control our own borders, to control our own finances, and to
:30:08. > :30:10.be able to sign free trade deals all over the globe. If we stay in the
:30:11. > :30:15.single market we can do none of those things. How would you stop her
:30:16. > :30:20.backsliding? She may not but how will you stop her if you think she
:30:21. > :30:23.is? We forced David Cameron into having the referendum in the first
:30:24. > :30:27.place by being strong electorally. We intend to ensure Theresa May
:30:28. > :30:32.doesn't backslide by doing the same thing. It's important I came into
:30:33. > :30:36.this role, that's why I decided to stand, because Ukip is more
:30:37. > :30:39.important than ever before. Do you worry that forever being on the back
:30:40. > :30:43.of Theresa May and her government over Brexit, that your pressure,
:30:44. > :30:47.trying to outflank on the right, we'll end up with the government
:30:48. > :30:51.getting a worse deal for the UK? I think they'll get the best deal.
:30:52. > :30:59.Britain will be able to look into this century confident, able to sign
:31:00. > :31:04.its own trade deals, not paying a membership fee to the European Union
:31:05. > :31:10.and not having to comply with EU regulations. I think that means a
:31:11. > :31:13.strong, confident and democratic UK. Do you agree it was Ukip who forced
:31:14. > :31:18.David Cameron to call the referendum? Of course not. Paul
:31:19. > :31:22.knows the Conservative Party has a long history of opposing the single
:31:23. > :31:28.currency. Talking about William Hague and us being locked in a
:31:29. > :31:37.burning building without a key to get out of it. Paul has a problem of
:31:38. > :31:41.unity. Diane James lasted five minutes. Steven Woolfe got whacked
:31:42. > :31:44.in more than one way! Neither of them are now in the party. Your
:31:45. > :31:48.biggest owner doesn't think any of the candidates were up to scratch,
:31:49. > :31:54.and Nigel Farage is still headline news! Your leadership could be
:31:55. > :31:58.undermined by the fact the party is falling apart at the seams. It's not
:31:59. > :32:02.falling apart. Since I've taken over we've gone up in the polls,
:32:03. > :32:06.membership has risen for the first time in a year and we finished
:32:07. > :32:11.second in a by-election. The party is coming together now. The problem
:32:12. > :32:15.we have in Ukip is this, the designation process for the
:32:16. > :32:19.referendum basically created a cancer in the party. It split the
:32:20. > :32:26.party in two. So no further defections? To ask there may well
:32:27. > :32:32.be. From Ukip to the Conservative Party? You're confident about that?
:32:33. > :32:39.Absolutely. Who's your leader in the group in the Welsh assembly? Neil
:32:40. > :32:45.Hamilton. Even though Nathan Gill was appointed? He is not a member of
:32:46. > :32:50.the assembly so he can't be. Would it be a failure of your leadership
:32:51. > :32:54.if anyone else defects from Ukip? I would be amazed... But would it be a
:32:55. > :32:59.failure of your leadership? It would be a failure of unity and I would be
:33:00. > :33:03.very disappointed if people leave the party. We've put a smile back on
:33:04. > :33:08.peoples faces. Myself and my deputy are changing the way this party
:33:09. > :33:12.behaves, and forward to a successful 2017. After the referendum there
:33:13. > :33:18.seemed to be a cancer in the party, to use your words. There seem to be
:33:19. > :33:22.infighting as the party fought it out. That leads people to believe
:33:23. > :33:25.Ukip can no longer be a single issue party. Let's look at some of the
:33:26. > :33:29.ideas you've had, no doubt you've been thinking about it over
:33:30. > :33:34.Christmas, a distinctive change in Ukip policy. What are your
:33:35. > :33:39.distinctive ideas? If you look at our last manifesto in 2015, it was
:33:40. > :33:43.regarded by member vulnerable many of the political commentary to be
:33:44. > :33:50.the best manifesto on offer. The first time our manifesto was fully
:33:51. > :33:53.costed an economic think tank. We will be fleshing out policies within
:33:54. > :33:59.the next couple of months. I've only been in the job six. Our spring
:34:00. > :34:03.conference is on February the 16th and 17th in Bolton, there will be
:34:04. > :34:06.big policy announcements then. You said you want to challenge Labour in
:34:07. > :34:11.its northern strongholds, what are your policies to challenge Labour?
:34:12. > :34:16.What are you going to say on workers' rights? Firstly, workers'
:34:17. > :34:20.rights will be protected. We are going to flesh out these policies
:34:21. > :34:24.and make a big announcement at Spring conference. We will continue
:34:25. > :34:29.to talk about the issues that matter the working class people. Which are?
:34:30. > :34:33.Ultimately what they are. Its immigration, they want a fair but
:34:34. > :34:37.firm immigration policy, because wages have been driven down by
:34:38. > :34:41.uncontrolled and unfettered immigration. They are law and order.
:34:42. > :34:44.They feel as though there is no deterrent in society. Because
:34:45. > :34:48.British working class people are the most likely to be the victims of
:34:49. > :34:53.crime, it's about putting British people first whether that's in the
:34:54. > :34:58.job market... Do you support the rail union strikes at the moment? I
:34:59. > :35:02.think trade unions have done a great job... Do you support the strikes?
:35:03. > :35:09.There's different strikes going on, Jo. The RMT strikes, if you are
:35:10. > :35:12.supporting workers' rights and you want to challenge Labour in the
:35:13. > :35:16.northern strongholds, do you support the strikes? I don't agree with the
:35:17. > :35:21.strike on Southern Rail. You've ready got the union leader who
:35:22. > :35:25.agreed that trains, without ticket collectors, were not a problem,
:35:26. > :35:31.before Christmas and now suddenly he thinks they are. Do you still
:35:32. > :35:35.support the triple lock on pensions? Yes I do. Would you like to see
:35:36. > :35:41.increased spending on capital projects? Yes I would. How much? I'm
:35:42. > :35:45.not going to give you a figure right now. There will be big announcements
:35:46. > :35:48.at the spring conference. But we will continue to do is we will
:35:49. > :35:52.continue to talk about the things that matter to working people and we
:35:53. > :35:56.will replace the Labour Party, I believe, as the patriotic voice of
:35:57. > :36:01.working people. What do you say to that? I think you've got a long way
:36:02. > :36:04.to go. What will become clear, and this is a challenge for the Labour
:36:05. > :36:09.Party to make sure we filled the space as much, but as Brexit becomes
:36:10. > :36:13.a reality, and many of people in Manchester or the North of England
:36:14. > :36:19.who voted for Britain to leave the EU, will still feel disaffected,
:36:20. > :36:23.even once we have left the European Union... Will they look to Ukip
:36:24. > :36:27.rather than Labour? I don't think so. Many of the concerns they have
:36:28. > :36:32.about their changing communities, loss of control, private rented
:36:33. > :36:37.sector, taking hold, the loss of the high streets, Ukip with their
:36:38. > :36:44.free-market agenda, to privatise the NHS, will do nothing to secure those
:36:45. > :36:50.communities. I think Paul, I wish him well, he's a good Northerner,
:36:51. > :36:54.but I think he will fall foul of the fact he's got nothing to say to
:36:55. > :37:00.communities like mine in Manchester, once we get over this Brexit issue.
:37:01. > :37:05.Respond to that. I think we will... What's your benchmark going to be?
:37:06. > :37:09.You've got a Labour Party led by a guy who seems to be obsessed with
:37:10. > :37:13.the issues that swirl around the Islington dinner party, climate
:37:14. > :37:18.change, fair trade, Palestine and all that stuff. These don't matter
:37:19. > :37:24.to people in your constituency or my constituency. Does he have a point?
:37:25. > :37:28.In my constituency... There's definitely some truth to that,
:37:29. > :37:32.that's part of the reason we're having the conversations within the
:37:33. > :37:36.Labour Party that we are having. My constituency seat a strong labour
:37:37. > :37:40.council in Manchester, Renaissance in parts of the North, but they want
:37:41. > :37:44.to see that spreading further. They want to see their communities
:37:45. > :37:49.flourishing once again and not in decline. I think strong Labour
:37:50. > :37:54.voices in the North will offer that not Paul. There are big elections
:37:55. > :37:58.this year in Europe, will you be campaigning alongside Marine Le Pen?
:37:59. > :38:01.We will not be involved in any foreign elections. There will be no
:38:02. > :38:05.campaigning alongside Marine Le Pen? She has said there's not a heads
:38:06. > :38:09.breadth of difference between what you thinks and what the National
:38:10. > :38:15.front things, let's be truthful. You're not going to go there? I'm
:38:16. > :38:24.focused on council elections in this country. What about your MEPs? They
:38:25. > :38:28.won't be there. They won't have any campaigning alongside? It's not
:38:29. > :38:32.going to happen. So you are going to tell them? Yes. Thank you very much.
:38:33. > :38:34.So Westminster gets back down to business
:38:35. > :38:37.Let's take a look at what's in store this week.
:38:38. > :38:40.Parliament goes back to work today after the Christmas recess break
:38:41. > :38:44.and it is expected that Jeremy Hunt will make a statement on the NHS
:38:45. > :38:46.and the pressure on services over the winter this afternoon.
:38:47. > :38:48.London Underground is currently holding a 24-hour strike
:38:49. > :38:50.and tomorrow thousands of British Airways cabin crew
:38:51. > :38:52.will begin a two-day walk-out, while Southern Rail network users
:38:53. > :38:55.will suffer disruptions due to industrial action on Tuesday,
:38:56. > :39:03.Tuesday marks the end of the ten-week public consultation
:39:04. > :39:06.period on whether to go ahead with part two of the Leveson Inquiry
:39:07. > :39:07.and investigate specific phone-hacking allegations
:39:08. > :39:18.at News International and other media organisations.
:39:19. > :39:20.On Wednesday, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will face off
:39:21. > :39:25.The Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, will give evidence
:39:26. > :39:26.to the Treasury Select Committee on Thursday afternoon.
:39:27. > :39:29.And on Saturday, Jeremy Corbyn will deliver a speech
:39:30. > :39:45.And we're joined now by the Sunday Express'
:39:46. > :39:49.Ben Glaze of the Daily Mirror from a rather grey College Green.
:39:50. > :39:54.Sadly our other guest has been caught up in the tube strike, she is
:39:55. > :39:59.not alone. Jeremy Hunt's statement in the Commons this afternoon on the
:40:00. > :40:04.NHS, what can we expect? He's going to come under some love calls to put
:40:05. > :40:08.more cash into the NHS. We had the warning from the British Red Cross
:40:09. > :40:11.that the NHS is facing a humanitarian crisis. It's quite
:40:12. > :40:19.colourful language, there have been lots of delays in A, 140 casualty
:40:20. > :40:24.departments. Close at certain points over December. Jeremy Hunt will be
:40:25. > :40:27.confronted with that sort of detail and opposition MPs are likely to
:40:28. > :40:33.call on him to put more money into the NHS. He's going to tell them
:40:34. > :40:37.that the NHS asked for ?8 billion and the government is putting in ?10
:40:38. > :40:40.billion. That figure has come in for a lot of criticism, particularly
:40:41. > :40:45.from the Commons health select committee who say the figure is more
:40:46. > :40:52.like ?6 billion. Of which ?3.5 billion has come from other budgets.
:40:53. > :40:57.What about pressure on Chris Grayling? We've been talking about
:40:58. > :41:00.strikes on the London Underground, Southern Rail and British Airways,
:41:01. > :41:05.how much pressure is he an do? It doesn't look good, a wave of
:41:06. > :41:09.transport strikes, it's like back to the bad old days. The one he is
:41:10. > :41:14.vulnerable on is the strike on Southern Rail. That is going to ramp
:41:15. > :41:16.up calls for the government to renationalise the railways
:41:17. > :41:21.generally, but particularly with Southern. There have been problems
:41:22. > :41:25.on Southern for several years, the industrial action this week began
:41:26. > :41:30.about a year ago. The service on that line has been bad for many
:41:31. > :41:35.years. Each time the unions go out on strike, the public see that as a
:41:36. > :41:40.battle between the workers and the company. It ramps up the calls for
:41:41. > :41:44.that line to be taken back into public ownership. What about Jeremy
:41:45. > :41:48.Corbyn's relaunch? We heard about it before Christmas and there are
:41:49. > :41:52.always warnings about explicitly saying you're going to relaunch your
:41:53. > :41:59.leadership campaign. What are we expecting in his speech tomorrow?
:42:00. > :42:03.It's in the Thurrock in Essex, a big Ukip area. He is likely to talk
:42:04. > :42:08.about immigration. It's a bit of a vulnerable area of the Jeremy Corbyn
:42:09. > :42:12.because he and Diane Abbott don't want any curbs on free movement.
:42:13. > :42:16.Lots of Labour MPs, particularly those in northern areas and the
:42:17. > :42:21.Midlands, they realise that unlimited migration is an issue for
:42:22. > :42:27.their constituents, and they want to see the party hierarchy move on
:42:28. > :42:32.this. We don't think Jeremy Corbyn is likely to heed that, he's going
:42:33. > :42:36.to stick to his guns on not curbing freedom of movement. This is all
:42:37. > :42:40.part of a relaunch, he's going to try and take on this Donald Trump
:42:41. > :42:47.mantle of presenting himself as a populist. For those of us who are
:42:48. > :42:51.going to be told this is "Corbyn unspun" we've spent 16 months
:42:52. > :42:55.following him, he's not been spun very well in those 16 months. Thank
:42:56. > :43:01.you for standing out in the rain. On that point, an immigration, are you
:43:02. > :43:05.with the Labour MPs who say there should be curbs on immigration?
:43:06. > :43:11.There two issues, how do we challenge the government right now
:43:12. > :43:15.to get the best possible deal in these negotiations? It's clear the
:43:16. > :43:20.vote on the 23rd of June, people were saying they do want to end
:43:21. > :43:24.freedom of movement. That has to be part of our negotiations now, we
:43:25. > :43:28.should be clear about that and make it clear... Is the Labour Party
:43:29. > :43:32.being clear at the moment? Tom Watson says the party isn't clear. I
:43:33. > :43:35.think what he said was the government weren't being clear so
:43:36. > :43:46.it's hard to oppose them. The second issue for all of us as political
:43:47. > :43:48.parties, is going into the next general election, the Brexit deal
:43:49. > :43:51.will already have been done or close to being done at that point, and the
:43:52. > :43:53.question is, Wilbur Labour Party have a commitment at that election
:43:54. > :43:57.to rejoin the European movement and rejoin free movement, or will we
:43:58. > :44:03.have a commitment to stick with the deal that's been done? The status
:44:04. > :44:07.quo as we operate in now has gone. My position would be, at that
:44:08. > :44:09.election, that we wouldn't be saying we'll bring back free movement as it
:44:10. > :44:13.would be. Let's leave it there. The Israeli ambassador in London has
:44:14. > :44:15.apologised after an official at the embassy was secretly filmed
:44:16. > :44:19.saying he wanted to "take down" some British MPs including
:44:20. > :44:20.the Foreign Office Minister, Shai Masot, a senior political
:44:21. > :44:23.officer at the embassy, made the remarks to Maria Strizzolo,
:44:24. > :44:26.a former aide to Education Minister Robert Halfon,
:44:27. > :44:28.during footage filmed in a London restaurant by an
:44:29. > :44:30.undercover reporter. We've been joined by Marcus Dysch,
:44:31. > :45:11.political editor at Welcome to the programme. Labour
:45:12. > :45:14.have said this is improper interference in our democratic
:45:15. > :45:19.politics. In other words, it goes beyond the mildly embarrassing
:45:20. > :45:24.scenario for the embassy. It's more than mildly embarrassing for the
:45:25. > :45:30.embassy for that we shouldn't get too carried away. I've met Shai
:45:31. > :45:34.Masot and Maria Strizzolo, and as good at their jobs as they were,
:45:35. > :45:41.given that they are both now out of work, I think we should be wary of
:45:42. > :45:44.over breaking exactly what's gone on here. They are two pretty junior
:45:45. > :45:49.staff members. Particularly Shai Masot at the embassy. He's not
:45:50. > :45:54.lobbying the Prime Minister or something. These are two young
:45:55. > :45:58.political hopefuls, diplomatic hopefuls, trying to impress each
:45:59. > :46:03.other. I'm not sure there's too much to it. Does this mean Labour should
:46:04. > :46:06.say that there's been political interference? It's a very serious
:46:07. > :46:14.incident. These are serious things to say. It seems action has been
:46:15. > :46:20.taken swiftly and they are junior members of the team, so as the
:46:21. > :46:27.official opposition, it is right for us to ask those questions. It was an
:46:28. > :46:31.informal enquiry Emily asked for. Ask the questions, make sure that
:46:32. > :46:34.this is not something that goes deeper, it's not part of a cultural
:46:35. > :46:39.issue or anything like that within the way the institution operates and
:46:40. > :46:43.deals with it in that way. What evidence has there been of improper
:46:44. > :46:49.interference by Israelis on government policy? Look, this is a
:46:50. > :46:56.conversation in a restaurant, an informal conversation. I would hope
:46:57. > :47:05.if you see me gossiping with my friends... Why, what are you
:47:06. > :47:12.saying?! Don't tempt us! I do think it was a very serious thing to be
:47:13. > :47:16.discussing like that, and if it was myself on the end of that
:47:17. > :47:21.conversation, I would be rightly very angry and want to know, not
:47:22. > :47:24.just with the individuals themselves not have been dealt with the
:47:25. > :47:28.leadership in the organisation made sure this wasn't a wider problem.
:47:29. > :47:34.What was your response when he saw that clip, talking about Sir Alan
:47:35. > :47:38.Duncan? I think it was serious enough for both of the individuals
:47:39. > :47:46.to resign and the other's career has been cut short in the UK. There were
:47:47. > :47:50.apologies right away. We should send condolences to the state of Israel
:47:51. > :47:55.for the terrorist attack which occurred in the last 48 hours. This
:47:56. > :48:00.is an important ally to the UK. As has already been said, if the
:48:01. > :48:06.ambassador has come out so clearly and quickly to apologise to Sir
:48:07. > :48:12.Alan, and the Foreign Secretary, this thing is a storm in a teacup.
:48:13. > :48:20.So you don't think there should be an enquiry? Into what? A strong ally
:48:21. > :48:27.like Israel is not conducting any covert operation to do anything.
:48:28. > :48:33.These are relatively junior people in the civil service but also in the
:48:34. > :48:40.Israeli embassy. Immediately, they said this is really wrong, quite
:48:41. > :48:44.rightly apologised, and they both said it was a gossip conversation
:48:45. > :48:50.over a glass of wine. Let's get these things in perspective. You
:48:51. > :48:53.said it was standard behaviour, but embarrassing, around Whitehall and
:48:54. > :49:02.the embassy circuit. Is this the sort of thing that goes on? I'm not
:49:03. > :49:06.sure I put that strongly. People suggested on Twitter this was an
:49:07. > :49:09.assassination attempt, to assassinate Sir Alan Duncan, and
:49:10. > :49:15.that's getting things completely out of perspective. Do people talk about
:49:16. > :49:22.tackling ministers and so on, yes. But did it reveal thinking within
:49:23. > :49:27.the embassy? He may have been a junior member of the team, but
:49:28. > :49:30.doesn't reveal a strain of thinking within the Israeli government that
:49:31. > :49:36.could be reflected at a higher level? Whatever he says publicly, is
:49:37. > :49:41.not going to reveal what goes on. I don't know exactly what the thinking
:49:42. > :49:46.is in the Israeli government. The British and Israeli governments are
:49:47. > :49:49.cooperating on a very high level, counterterrorism and cyber security
:49:50. > :49:55.and pharmaceuticals and NHS and all these different things. Are their
:49:56. > :49:59.British politicians the Israeli government don't agree with, yes, of
:50:00. > :50:02.course. Sir Alan Duncan has been a thorn in the side of the Israeli
:50:03. > :50:05.government for many years about settlements. Were they rather he
:50:06. > :50:10.wasn't in the Foreign Office, perhaps. Chatting about it over
:50:11. > :50:16.dinner in a Kensington restaurant, doesn't add up to anything? I doubt
:50:17. > :50:19.it. Be careful where you go for dinner. Thank you very much.
:50:20. > :50:21.The NHS is facing a humanitarian crisis this winter
:50:22. > :50:25.A third of hospital trusts in England warned they needed action
:50:26. > :50:27.to cope with patient numbers last month and over the weekend
:50:28. > :50:30.Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn took to the airwaves to demand
:50:31. > :50:33.Prime Minister Theresa May appear before MPs to explain how she plans
:50:34. > :50:36.This morning, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt responded by saying
:50:37. > :50:39.improvements are needed, but that that if we make it just
:50:40. > :50:43.He's due to make a statement this afternoon.
:50:44. > :50:48.Well, one person who believes even more radical changes are needed
:50:49. > :50:52.to improve the NHS is the director of the Reform thinktank,
:50:53. > :51:09.Over Christmas, Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron joined the long
:51:10. > :51:19.list of politicians wanting to spend billions more on the NHS.
:51:20. > :51:23.That is exactly the wrong prescription for the NHS.
:51:24. > :51:28.A revolution in health care practice and technology
:51:29. > :51:30.which is going to transform the service and help
:51:31. > :51:41.This is the office of Babylon, one of the world's leading
:51:42. > :51:45.This isn't Silicon Valley in California.
:51:46. > :51:52.The Babylon team runs an app which is currently used by 300,000
:51:53. > :51:56.people in the UK and which the NHS itself is rolling out
:51:57. > :52:01.to a million more people in London later this month.
:52:02. > :52:04.The app can monitor a person's vital signs, blood pressure,
:52:05. > :52:10.These developers are learning how to use the data to predict
:52:11. > :52:15.With these ideas, the NHS can prevent ill-health
:52:16. > :52:20.This team are experts in artificial intelligence.
:52:21. > :52:27.Users of the app enter their symptoms.
:52:28. > :52:30.The app then tells the patient whether the problem can be cared
:52:31. > :52:32.for at home or whether it needs medical attention either
:52:33. > :52:36.This team can also organise face-to-face appointments with a GP
:52:37. > :52:42.over video with an average waiting time of only 46 minutes
:52:43. > :52:57.Better healthcare is also better value for money.
:52:58. > :52:59.If we prevent ill-health, if we treat it quicker,
:53:00. > :53:03.if we make it much easier to see the doctor, the whole process
:53:04. > :53:08.is cheaper and delivers better care for patients.
:53:09. > :53:11.Every political party wants to improve the NHS.
:53:12. > :53:14.The way to do it is through innovation and new ideas.
:53:15. > :53:19.Simply pouring in more money is not the answer.
:53:20. > :53:32.You say the NHS doesn't need more money, yet the NHS Trust finished
:53:33. > :53:38.2015-16 with a deficit of nearly ?2.5 billion. The NHS had Simon
:53:39. > :53:43.Stephens at the case for an urgent cash injection into social care was
:53:44. > :53:48.unarguable. It needs more money. What the NHS needs is changed. Whole
:53:49. > :53:53.new way of doing business. You referred to the Red Cross early on
:53:54. > :54:00.in this programme. To go into A hospitals is to see a service under
:54:01. > :54:06.real strain but that is due to the way the service works, it encourages
:54:07. > :54:10.patients into hospitals rather than to GPs and other areas of the health
:54:11. > :54:14.service. In other words, it's making poor use of the money it gets and it
:54:15. > :54:21.needs to work differently. The partition is not saying it's just
:54:22. > :54:26.poor use of money, but emergency rooms hospitals are in an acute
:54:27. > :54:31.state of distress due to chronic underfunding. So not just recent
:54:32. > :54:36.funding but chronic. Are you saying the NHS wouldn't benefit from having
:54:37. > :54:41.more money? No, what I'm saying is, and I think Jeremy had would say
:54:42. > :54:44.this this afternoon, the NHS has agreed with the government to do
:54:45. > :54:52.what we have needed to do for years, a thorough review, get people who
:54:53. > :54:55.are going to hospital unnecessarily out-of-hospital, stronger primary
:54:56. > :55:01.care, a better use of technology, that the change needed. If the NHS
:55:02. > :55:06.hears it getting a windfall, it will not feel the need for change, it
:55:07. > :55:11.won't act on it, it will put off the change and that will be a big
:55:12. > :55:15.mistake. Do you agree that given more money just won't make the
:55:16. > :55:20.reforms? No, we are talking about different things. My husband is head
:55:21. > :55:28.of dark apartment in the A -- head of Department. Of course, we
:55:29. > :55:32.have got to make sure more money is put into prevention. That are
:55:33. > :55:39.critical issue. Social care in particular but also in health care,
:55:40. > :55:43.mental health care, or early years, and so on. All the money is always
:55:44. > :55:48.geared up to the acute care people need and they know when they go into
:55:49. > :55:51.A they get to see a high-level doctor and all the diagnostics. But
:55:52. > :55:56.the government has absolutely slashed and burned all these
:55:57. > :56:03.preventative measures so social care has gone to the bone, early years,
:56:04. > :56:06.Sure Start, helping families when they first have children, mental
:56:07. > :56:10.health services, so that's why the pressure is so much on, so we need
:56:11. > :56:15.money in those preventative services to make that innovation. Earlier we
:56:16. > :56:23.were talking about the level and number of mental health nurses.
:56:24. > :56:31.While there were 45,380 more mental health nurses working in England in
:56:32. > :56:37.2010, they were just 38,000 in July 2016. A fall of 6610 mental health
:56:38. > :56:43.nurses. You accept there has been a cat? The government has deprived
:56:44. > :56:48.preventative care in medicine and funds it needs and that's why we
:56:49. > :56:52.have a crisis, do you agree? No, I will tell you why because there's so
:56:53. > :56:59.many issues here. Simon Stephens is brought in by the Labour government,
:57:00. > :57:02.and they said I need the money to deliver the five-year plan and we
:57:03. > :57:08.gave him more than that. So the budget now was 98 billion, and 2020
:57:09. > :57:14.budget is 120 billion full stop that's what's going into the NHS.
:57:15. > :57:18.You are conflating two things in coming up with a wrong answer. Yes,
:57:19. > :57:22.of course we have to deliver the funding but also have good
:57:23. > :57:28.leadership. But social care provision at one end. On social care
:57:29. > :57:36.with pop one money into it. No, you haven't. Actually, we could use the
:57:37. > :57:41.money quicker now to help. Let's be clear, councils make that decision.
:57:42. > :57:46.You say more money has been put into social care provision that councils
:57:47. > :57:50.will say about their budgets cut. You're talking about the last year.
:57:51. > :57:55.It's a very important point, when you say they are putting more money
:57:56. > :57:58.in, you're comparing this year to last year. When I say there's huge
:57:59. > :58:03.cuts come and comparing it to six years ago, a huge cat, which has now
:58:04. > :58:10.gone up slightly in the last 12 months. That's why my husband will
:58:11. > :58:14.tell you everybody turning up at A should be cared for at home. Glenn
:58:15. > :58:20.Burley is doing a fantastic job, a brand-new hospital in Stratford
:58:21. > :58:26.because a really good leadership, so leadership matters. The reform
:58:27. > :58:32.programme will make a massive difference. If we don't play
:58:33. > :58:37.politics,... Thank you, you got seven seconds to come the answer to
:58:38. > :58:40.the quiz. What is his icky habit? It is cutting the crusts on his toast.
:58:41. > :58:43.Thank you very much. Thanks to Lucy, Nadhim
:58:44. > :58:46.and all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting
:58:47. > :58:48.over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon
:58:49. > :58:51.tomorrow with all the big told through recordings
:58:52. > :59:07.he made over decades. Troubled, tragic,
:59:08. > :59:12.utterly compelling. Everybody's got a story to tell,
:59:13. > :59:17.something they're hiding.