:00:38. > :00:48.Afternoon folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:49. > :00:50.Theresa May tells world leaders and global business chiefs
:00:51. > :00:53.that Britain will still be "open for business" after Brexit and says
:00:54. > :00:55.global elites must do more to respond to the anxieties
:00:56. > :01:04.Is the EU out to administer a "punishment beating" to the UK
:01:05. > :01:08.We speak to a leading German member of the European Parliament.
:01:09. > :01:10.We may be living in an age of political insurgency.
:01:11. > :01:12.But, if you're taking on the establishment,
:01:13. > :01:23.But did we get some early hints about his political ambitions?
:01:24. > :01:26.Eventually I think we'll get the right person and when we do, it'll
:01:27. > :01:34.all straighten out. I wonder who he had in mind back
:01:35. > :01:39.then? And with me for the whole
:01:40. > :01:43.of the programme today, our very own little insurgent -
:01:44. > :01:46.Ukip's one and only Now it's been almost 48
:01:47. > :01:50.hours since Theresa May gave her big speech on Brexit,
:01:51. > :01:52.so it's probably time The Prime Minister has been
:01:53. > :01:55.addressing global political and business bigwigs gathering
:01:56. > :01:57.for the World Economic Forum She's been keen to reassure them
:01:58. > :02:02.that Britain will remain very much open for business
:02:03. > :02:04.after we leave the EU. Our decision to leave
:02:05. > :02:13.the European Union was no rejection of our friends in Europe,
:02:14. > :02:18.with whom we share common interest So, at the heart of the plan I set
:02:19. > :02:28.out earlier this week, is a determination to pursue a bold
:02:29. > :02:31.and ambitious free trade agreement between the UK
:02:32. > :02:34.and the European Union. But more than that, we seek
:02:35. > :02:39.the freedom to strike new trade deals with old friends
:02:40. > :02:53.and new allies, right The kind of audience there is at
:02:54. > :02:57.Davos, it must have been a binary speech. On the one hand she's the
:02:58. > :03:00.leader of Brexit, which they hate, on the other hand, she is a huge
:03:01. > :03:05.supporter of globalisation and world trade, which is under threat, and
:03:06. > :03:07.they love. Well, I hope, listening to her speech, they might be
:03:08. > :03:13.rethinking some of their cliched group think. You know, that, that's
:03:14. > :03:16.the second great speech we've heard from Theresa May in three days. I
:03:17. > :03:20.think if I was asked to contribute to what she was saying, I woonted
:03:21. > :03:25.have changed a word. I think she's Bang on the Money. -- I wouldn't
:03:26. > :03:31.have changed a word. What are the chances of rethinking, we've had
:03:32. > :03:39.some of the pressures up. We've heard HSBC talking about "perhaps"
:03:40. > :03:44.which is the key word, of Retallick locating staff to Paris. And US
:03:45. > :03:50.Goldman Sachs talking about 1,000 from London to Frankfurt. How
:03:51. > :03:56.seriously to the take the threats? When I was working for a FTSE 100
:03:57. > :04:00.fund manager in the when we decided not to join the euro, we heard the
:04:01. > :04:04.same claims made and actually far from jobs being lost to London,
:04:05. > :04:10.since then London has consolidated its position. So you don't take it
:04:11. > :04:14.seriously? I - we heard a lot of these claims made in the run-up to
:04:15. > :04:19.the referendum. It may than there are some businesses who feel they
:04:20. > :04:23.are better off moving to Paris or Frankfurt but we heard this 20 years
:04:24. > :04:27.ago when we decided not to join the euro. What will decide whether or
:04:28. > :04:30.not the City and rest of the UK prospers, is whether or not, having
:04:31. > :04:34.left the European Union, we make good on this vision of a liberal
:04:35. > :04:38.Brexit, opening ourselves up to the world and not just the eurozone. If
:04:39. > :04:43.we do that, we will prosper enormously. Did you do that do you
:04:44. > :04:49.think they'll stay? I think so. What about Toyota? It employs 3,000
:04:50. > :04:52.people in Britain? A lot of the people employed by corporate
:04:53. > :04:55.lobbyists in the run-up to the referendum were dead against Brexit.
:04:56. > :04:59.They haven't got over it but the actual business men and women, who
:05:00. > :05:03.make the decisionses, I think will come to term with the change,
:05:04. > :05:10.recognise liberal breaks sit good business and we'll see them chaging
:05:11. > :05:15.their tune. But it was the Chairman of HSBC, not the corporate lobbyist,
:05:16. > :05:20.that said, "We will move in about two years' time when Brexit
:05:21. > :05:23.becomes... ." It is in about two years' now rather than immediately
:05:24. > :05:29.after. Are you sceptical of the claims? I am but they know their
:05:30. > :05:33.better than I do. Let's wait and see, I suspect in 10, 15 years'
:05:34. > :05:36.time, the City of London will be more of a global financial hub than
:05:37. > :05:39.it is today. What do you make of this claim, the Maltese Prime
:05:40. > :05:47.Minister, I think he is part now of the - he is in the EU ro Tait
:05:48. > :05:53.presidency seat for the first six months of the year and repeats this
:05:54. > :05:58.demand or idea that Britain would have to pay a 60 billion euro exit
:05:59. > :06:05.price. I mean t would seem to me - I don't know what really that is based
:06:06. > :06:09.on, or whether it has any real basis but whether it has any basis or not,
:06:10. > :06:13.I would suggest to you in a no British Prime Minister could ever
:06:14. > :06:19.agree to that? Of course, it is a businessless claim. But what we need
:06:20. > :06:24.to avoid doing is getting involved in a war of words between some of
:06:25. > :06:31.the more excitable eurocrats. He is the Prime Minister. He is head of
:06:32. > :06:35.the rotating presidency. Some of the people, they are talking about their
:06:36. > :06:40.tax and bonuses and empire of official dom who'll resent us from
:06:41. > :06:46.leaving. We won't rise to the debate. We are good neighbours and
:06:47. > :06:50.Theresa May's speech was generous, making clear we want to be good
:06:51. > :06:54.neighbours. That wasn't something we said during the referendum campaign.
:06:55. > :07:00.A country outside the European Union, we want to cooperate. It may
:07:01. > :07:04.not be 60 billion, unlikely to be anywhere near, that but will there
:07:05. > :07:08.not be some price to pay as we exit? Clearly we want it leave on good
:07:09. > :07:10.terms and we want to honour any commitments we have under
:07:11. > :07:16.international law but we're not about to pick up a huge bill to, you
:07:17. > :07:18.know, help some of the anti-Brexiteers in the European
:07:19. > :07:22.system come to terms with their grief. We are going to leave in a
:07:23. > :07:27.couple of years' time and, you know, we promise not to pursue a claim for
:07:28. > :07:30.our share of buildings and other things that our money has funded, in
:07:31. > :07:34.return for a good, fair, reasonable settlement. We want this to work for
:07:35. > :07:38.both sides. We don't want it to be a bitter divorce. You have said twice
:07:39. > :07:43.in the past couple of minute, how much you liked both of Mrs May's
:07:44. > :07:48.speeches, so you are generally happy with the direction that she's going
:07:49. > :07:51.in now? I'm absolutely delighted. I have been pushing all my adult life
:07:52. > :07:55.to have a Government, a Prime Minister, committed to this agenda,
:07:56. > :08:00.I really feel quite emotional about t actually. I think it is wonderful.
:08:01. > :08:03.It is likely - we are waiting on the Supreme Court, I think it is 24th
:08:04. > :08:08.January. Next Tuesday. Next Tuesday, it is going to rule. There is an be
:08:09. > :08:12.a assumption, we don't know, but in the media and politics, we seem to
:08:13. > :08:18.be operating on the asuchings that the Supreme Court will uphold the
:08:19. > :08:22.challenge. Are there any parliamentary dangers for the
:08:23. > :08:26.Article 50 process if we have to do what the Supreme Court says, and it
:08:27. > :08:30.has to go through the parliamentary procedure? I don't think - if the
:08:31. > :08:34.court rules that it is exclusively for Parliament to make any decision,
:08:35. > :08:37.I don't see a danger. A worst case scenario, if you find a Parliament
:08:38. > :08:41.that resists the referendum, you simply call a new election and make
:08:42. > :08:44.sure you have a Parliament that agrees with the verdict of the
:08:45. > :08:47.people. I think the danger comes from the judges get it into their
:08:48. > :08:50.heads that it is someone other than Parliament that must make this
:08:51. > :08:56.decision. For example, if they give the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish
:08:57. > :09:01.Parliament or any other third party de facto veto powers, that I think
:09:02. > :09:05.would trigger a constitutional crisis, but it is for Parliament to
:09:06. > :09:10.decide. Even if the House of Lords decided to throw a woby, you could
:09:11. > :09:14.call an election reand replace them. So you think it is possible in the
:09:15. > :09:18.Lords do in some way try to block this or delay it, that could provoke
:09:19. > :09:21.an election, too? I do, absolutely. You know, if we could leave the
:09:22. > :09:24.European Union and make sure that those who make our laws in
:09:25. > :09:31.Parliament live under the lawyer, that would be the icing on the cake,
:09:32. > :09:33.wouldn't it? What about Ukip? Will Paul Nuttal will fighting the
:09:34. > :09:37.by-election himself? We'll have a hustings tomorrow. I genuinely don't
:09:38. > :09:42.know. We'll make the announcement on Saturday. Paul would be a superb
:09:43. > :09:48.candidate. This is not about Ukip, fws Stoke. Stoke has had a Labour MP
:09:49. > :09:52.from 1950, it deserves something better than that. Would he be your
:09:53. > :09:56.choice? I think he would be superb but we're a Democratic Party and I'm
:09:57. > :10:00.not registered to vote in that hustings. I will be supporting
:10:01. > :10:03.whoever but Paul will be a superb candidate. He really would be a
:10:04. > :10:06.force for Stoke. All right. We shall see.
:10:07. > :10:07.European leaders have continued to respond
:10:08. > :10:11.Yesterday, the President of the European Commission,
:10:12. > :10:12.Jean Claude Juncker, struck a conciliatory tone,
:10:13. > :10:17.saying he wanted a "fair deal" without any "hostility".
:10:18. > :10:20.However, the Maltese Prime Minister, Joseph Muscat, said the deal should
:10:21. > :10:25.It came as Boris Johnson, on a trip to India, took aim
:10:26. > :10:32.at the French President, warning him not to hit
:10:33. > :10:36.the UK with "punishment beatings, in the manner of some
:10:37. > :10:43.You can always depend on Boris Johnson.
:10:44. > :10:45.Joining us now from the European Parliament in Strasbourg
:10:46. > :10:48.is the MEP Manfred Weber, the Chairman of the centre-right EPP
:10:49. > :10:49.grouping in the European Parliament.
:10:50. > :10:57.Welcome to the programme, Mr Weber. Are you so worried that others might
:10:58. > :11:07.want to leave the European Union that you need to be seen to give
:11:08. > :11:11.Britain a really bad deal? ? After the Brexit, we experienced that
:11:12. > :11:17.Europeans via the polls that people are signalling that they understand
:11:18. > :11:24.that how important European Union is. ... They believe in the European
:11:25. > :11:27.Union. That's why I have no problem with this. They are ready for a fair
:11:28. > :11:30.deal. The European Parliament is a Parliament of content. They are
:11:31. > :11:35.ready for a fair deal but we have to discuss what fair means. You don't
:11:36. > :11:42.think that the European mainstream political establishment, of which
:11:43. > :11:47.you are a distinguished member, faces troubles when Wilder is ahead
:11:48. > :11:51.in the polls in Holland and Marine Le Pen could come first in the first
:11:52. > :11:53.round of the French elections. You don't think these are problems for
:11:54. > :11:59.people like you? Absolutely. They are problems for all of us, I would
:12:00. > :12:04.say because when they are winning, who want to destroy our partnership
:12:05. > :12:07.approach. For example, to have a good straight deal, Marine Le Pen
:12:08. > :12:10.makes a campaign against the single market because in frances the
:12:11. > :12:13.biggest problem is the unemployment rate. So everybody has its problem.
:12:14. > :12:18.The question is how can we solve them? Is it better to split up the
:12:19. > :12:22.European Union and Member States or work together? That's the approach
:12:23. > :12:26.behind and frankly speaking when I hear the words from Boris Johnson,
:12:27. > :12:29.that is exactly what I mean, to provoke each other, to say to each
:12:30. > :12:36.other that we don't like each other and so on, that is not the way how
:12:37. > :12:39.we should work and Boris Johnson is behaving like a clown and is taking
:12:40. > :12:46.away the credibility of the government. Well, Boris onson is not
:12:47. > :12:51.hear to defend himself. ! Let's try to come back to the substance. When
:12:52. > :12:56.you look at what is happening in Holland n France, the ongoing
:12:57. > :12:58.Italian political and financial crisis, Mrs Merkel facing a very
:12:59. > :13:05.tough collection coming up in September. Have you learned nothing
:13:06. > :13:09.from the Brexit vote? Well, I have learned a lot from the Brexit vote.
:13:10. > :13:18.For example, that nobody explained to the British people what Europe is
:13:19. > :13:21.all B for example, when you talk about trade, Theresa May made clear
:13:22. > :13:25.statements on trade. So what is EU? EU is the single market. The free
:13:26. > :13:28.trade zone. That is for the whole of the European Union much that's what
:13:29. > :13:31.the Brits wanted. It was the idea of Europe. Now you say you want to
:13:32. > :13:36.leave the European Union. I respect the outcome of Europe, but on the
:13:37. > :13:43.other hand you say you want a free trade agreement. So leads to the
:13:44. > :13:49.situation that nothing will change. Do you want to leave or not leave
:13:50. > :13:55.the single market. Mr Weber there are many countries who have free
:13:56. > :13:58.trade agreements with the EU, the most recent Canada, which are not
:13:59. > :14:02.members of the single market. Absolutely. So why can't Britain?
:14:03. > :14:05.And they will never get Canada, the others will never get the same
:14:06. > :14:10.status like EU members have inside of the European Union, of this this
:14:11. > :14:13.free trade zone, created during the last decade, so much positive
:14:14. > :14:19.development for all of us, for Britain, Germany all of us and that
:14:20. > :14:26.is what some want to destroy now. I fight for t others can destroy it.
:14:27. > :14:32.It is a normal democratic process. I'm elected and Boris Johnson is
:14:33. > :14:34.elected. If it is so positive, why has there been mass youth
:14:35. > :14:39.unemployment in the eurozone and it is only this year or the end of last
:14:40. > :14:44.year that the European Union managed in GDP terms, to get back to the
:14:45. > :14:54.size it was in 2008. Why is that so positive? Britain is 15% bigger than
:14:55. > :14:59.2008, America, 20% bigger Fair question ache ask, why has Spain and
:15:00. > :15:07.Ireland got rise rates. And Germany with a stable development Because
:15:08. > :15:10.they slashed wages. In Spain they slashed wages by 20% and there is
:15:11. > :15:14.still 40% youth unemployment in Spain. Is there a chance of an
:15:15. > :15:17.answer or no chance? I want to answer your question. You want it
:15:18. > :15:20.interview me and that is the background of our meeting, yeah,
:15:21. > :15:23.that's why I want to give you a rection a. The question is the
:15:24. > :15:35.growth. The most important question about
:15:36. > :15:37.social welfare, all of these questions are national
:15:38. > :15:40.responsibilities. Don't come with the question that Europe is
:15:41. > :15:46.responsible for everything. That is the easy question. That Brussels is
:15:47. > :15:59.always responsible. That is not true. Others have tasks to do.
:16:00. > :16:04.Please be fair. I'm still not clear what the lesson you have learned
:16:05. > :16:08.from the Brexit vote is, apart from business as usual. You just want to
:16:09. > :16:12.repeat the same arguments and behave in the same way. Given all of the
:16:13. > :16:22.political challenges that Europe faces this year, are you not
:16:23. > :16:28.changing your behaviour in any way? No national politician has convinced
:16:29. > :16:32.people why Europe is important. I will give you another example when
:16:33. > :16:37.you talk about trade. I still think the Single Market is a good thing.
:16:38. > :16:41.And another example is the fight against terror. I think we need the
:16:42. > :16:48.European Union. That is why we work in the European Parliament on a
:16:49. > :16:51.jihadist list, our intelligence forces are strongly working
:16:52. > :16:56.together. That is the idea of Europe. It is about practical
:16:57. > :17:00.things. I learned with my meeting with David Davies that Britain wants
:17:01. > :17:05.to stay in this unity of exchange of data that is part of Europe. That's
:17:06. > :17:10.why I have no idea what Brexit means for the moment. You want to leave,
:17:11. > :17:14.but I learn that you want to stay in the Single Market, the fair trade
:17:15. > :17:20.agreement, the question of exchange between universities on research in
:17:21. > :17:26.Europe. Oxford and others want to stay. What are you leaving? What do
:17:27. > :17:31.you want to do? Don't talk about Europe and bureaucracy and Brussels.
:17:32. > :17:38.I'm in favour of this partnership approach. What do you say to the
:17:39. > :17:42.Finance Minister of Italy, who has said the problem with Europe is
:17:43. > :17:48.Europe, that people don't have faith in Europe any more? And he has to
:17:49. > :17:55.think about himself because he is a politician who once Europe. He is
:17:56. > :17:59.dealing with the Euro. Let's face the reality. The reality is we have
:18:00. > :18:04.a global problem on the table. We see how big are member states are.
:18:05. > :18:11.The nations in the European Union are competitive. We have to face the
:18:12. > :18:14.reality that one single member state of this European Union alone cannot
:18:15. > :18:22.compete with China and others. That is the reality. You can think in
:18:23. > :18:26.another direction, but I think it is better to combine our forces and
:18:27. > :18:30.fight for a common interests, both the social model of Europe, for
:18:31. > :18:33.example, which is unique globally, to fight for these common values
:18:34. > :18:39.together. That is what I believe in, that is what I will fight for. I am
:18:40. > :18:46.a Democrat. If you are a Democrat, you no doubt you respect the result
:18:47. > :18:50.on June 24. It affects EU citizens living in Britain, of which there
:18:51. > :18:56.are about 3 million with their families. And EU citizens living in
:18:57. > :19:02.the EU. Why not take them off the table now? Why not say that any EU
:19:03. > :19:08.citizen in the UK has guaranteed rights indefinitely, and any UK
:19:09. > :19:14.citizen living in the EU -- EU has guaranteed rights indefinitely? Why
:19:15. > :19:22.not do that now? That as a starting point already. Mrs Merkel has turned
:19:23. > :19:31.that down. At the moment nobody wants to start negotiations. The
:19:32. > :19:35.point I am putting it to you is that when Mrs May made the offer to the
:19:36. > :19:41.German chancellor, she turned it down. Why make these people part of
:19:42. > :19:44.the negotiations? Please don't be surprised when Angela Merkel and
:19:45. > :19:51.other leaders in Europe will say, first of all, please, London, give
:19:52. > :19:57.us a triggering of Article 50. For the moment we only have speeches. We
:19:58. > :20:02.have declarations. Formerly there is nothing on the table. That is why it
:20:03. > :20:05.is completely fair when I asked London, please put formerly your
:20:06. > :20:16.questions on the table. Then we can start the negotiation. If we agree
:20:17. > :20:18.on the principle that we are not punishing Britain for leaving the
:20:19. > :20:23.European Union, then on the other hand I would also ask, don't make
:20:24. > :20:32.pressure on the rest of the European Union in saying you want to deliver
:20:33. > :20:41.another economic model. I merely asked about EU citizens. But you
:20:42. > :20:46.seem not to want to do anything at the moment. I clarified this. I'm
:20:47. > :20:53.totally ready to respect the current situation and respect the citizens.
:20:54. > :20:58.I only wanted to ask if we are not creating any additional aggression.
:20:59. > :21:03.Save this pleased to Johnson, when you see him next time. I will talk
:21:04. > :21:08.to my friends to reduce the pressure. We're ready to negotiate.
:21:09. > :21:20.But leaving the European Union means leaving the European Union. We got
:21:21. > :21:24.that, Mr Webber. I do many things in this world, Mr Webber, but taking
:21:25. > :21:25.messages to Boris Johnson is not one of them. Thank you.
:21:26. > :21:28.Now as we've been hearing, Theresa May has been addressing
:21:29. > :21:30.the World Economic Forum in Davos this morning.
:21:31. > :21:32.It's an annual gathering in Switzerland, where political
:21:33. > :21:33.and business leaders discuss global issues.
:21:34. > :21:36.But what is this exclusive event, and which masters and mistresses
:21:37. > :21:47.of the universe are attending this year?
:21:48. > :21:50.The Forum - as it is known - takes place every year in the alpine
:21:51. > :21:54.The event was founded in 1971 by the German
:21:55. > :21:59.Its stated mission? To improve the state of the world.
:22:00. > :22:02.The theme of this year's event is Responsive
:22:03. > :22:11.More than 2,500 politicians, business leaders and heads of state
:22:12. > :22:13.from almost 100 countries are attending Davos.
:22:14. > :22:19.But if you're hoping to attend next year,
:22:20. > :22:23.Speakers at this year's Forum include US Vice President Joe Biden,
:22:24. > :22:26.Chinese Premier Xi Jingping, and the Head of the International
:22:27. > :22:39.David Cameron and George Osborne are also making speeches
:22:40. > :22:52.But with the cost of attending the annual Davos shindig running
:22:53. > :22:54.into tens of thousands of pounds, some have criticised the event
:22:55. > :23:02.as a glorified party for the global elite.
:23:03. > :23:04.Joining us from Davos to discuss this further is Jennifer Blanke.
:23:05. > :23:11.She's the Chief Economist for the World Economic Forum.
:23:12. > :23:22.Thank you for joining us. Can I just ask you one question. After the
:23:23. > :23:31.speech by the Chinese president to Davos this year, China daily says
:23:32. > :23:35.President G has become the general secretary of globalisation. Are you
:23:36. > :23:40.comfortable with that? Well look, I think that everybody is looking how
:23:41. > :23:45.to make globalisation work well. There has been a love of
:23:46. > :23:48.disgruntlement in recent years about how the opening in various ways has
:23:49. > :23:53.affected people. And I think that the fact that the Chinese government
:23:54. > :23:57.wants to take a serious stand on some issues, and when you talk about
:23:58. > :24:01.globalisation it is also about how we deal with things like climate
:24:02. > :24:07.change, and I do believe that the Chinese economy is one of the most
:24:08. > :24:11.important, the second most important, soon-to-be first, in the
:24:12. > :24:15.world. It is important they take a strong stand on some of these
:24:16. > :24:20.issues. Do I feel comfortable? It has to be a coordinated effort. We
:24:21. > :24:30.need leaders of important countries taking stands. China joined the WTO
:24:31. > :24:40.in 2001 and has put in face -- place market access foreign companies. Did
:24:41. > :24:45.anybody raise that with him in Davos? I think if you think about
:24:46. > :24:51.globalisation there are many things that combine to make a globalised
:24:52. > :24:54.world. If you look at China, why is China pro-globalisation? Because the
:24:55. > :25:05.country stagnated for decades until 1979. Did anybody raise these points
:25:06. > :25:09.with him? I don't know if anybody raised that with him directly. I was
:25:10. > :25:13.not in the room with him. However, clear these kind of things are dealt
:25:14. > :25:18.with at the WTO. There is a mechanism. We are mapping out the
:25:19. > :25:23.future here, not looking at the past. He was the Chinese leader
:25:24. > :25:27.championing globalisation and free trade at Davos, and yet is presiding
:25:28. > :25:36.over a ruthless crackdown on dissidents in China itself. The
:25:37. > :25:41.trend, according to human rights watch, is decidedly negative. There
:25:42. > :25:46.has in a crackdown on human rights lawyers. Did anybody in Davos raise
:25:47. > :25:50.that with him? I don't think what we do is raise issues directly with
:25:51. > :25:54.foreign leaders. We raise discussion points among many people about
:25:55. > :25:58.issues that need to be raised. Human rights is very high on the agenda.
:25:59. > :26:04.The question of democracy is very high on the agenda. Not if you
:26:05. > :26:11.didn't raise it with him. That is not the point of Davos. It is not a
:26:12. > :26:16.one-on-one between us and foreign leaders. It is about bringing
:26:17. > :26:19.together business, government, civil society and academia to map out a
:26:20. > :26:23.future. We can talk about human rights issues all we want. There are
:26:24. > :26:29.many issues of human rights around the world. It didn't sound like you
:26:30. > :26:35.talked about it at all. We definitely talked about it a lot. I
:26:36. > :26:43.think we can forgive the fact that these corporate kleptocratic
:26:44. > :26:48.get-together. We can forget they trade cliches as easily as they
:26:49. > :26:52.traded business cards. But we can't forget that Davos creates groupthink
:26:53. > :26:57.and it allows so-called leaders to marinade themselves in this bogus
:26:58. > :27:02.sense of reassurance. They don't see the dangers of their wrong policies.
:27:03. > :27:10.In 2006, shortly before the sub-prime crisis, they completely
:27:11. > :27:13.failed to see the sub-prime crisis coming. Shortly before Lehman
:27:14. > :27:20.Brothers went bust, the founder of the world economic Forum said the
:27:21. > :27:29.mood from Davos was optimistic. What do you say to that? That it is
:27:30. > :27:35.almost a self-deluding groupthink? I don't think it is a self-deluding
:27:36. > :27:39.groupthink. Maybe two thirds of the people in Davos are from business
:27:40. > :27:44.and government. The other third come from civil society. They come from
:27:45. > :27:49.social entrepreneurs and academia. I agree there is a discussion about
:27:50. > :27:53.whether we have missed out on something. Certainly the rise of
:27:54. > :27:57.inequality is of great concern. I focus most of my time thinking about
:27:58. > :28:01.how the process can work differently. It is easy to complain
:28:02. > :28:06.about the situation from outside. It is harder to map out what we are
:28:07. > :28:10.going to do going forward. We have leaders in Davos. But the people who
:28:11. > :28:14.make decisions are the leaders. Therefore it's very important that
:28:15. > :28:20.we sit here together. We came out with the report a few days ago. We
:28:21. > :28:24.talked about the fact that growth is not enough. It is very important for
:28:25. > :28:27.the process of growth to be inclusive. This resonates very well
:28:28. > :28:33.with what Theresa May talked about today. This is something that is
:28:34. > :28:37.high on the agenda. It may be high on the agenda but you have been
:28:38. > :28:45.going since 1971. What has Davos done about low wages, growing
:28:46. > :28:48.inequality? First of all it is not just growing inequality. We are
:28:49. > :28:52.contributing to a better understanding of what has to happen.
:28:53. > :28:57.Clearly the growth model that we had used in recent years is no longer
:28:58. > :29:01.functioning. But what have you done? We have convened discussion leaders.
:29:02. > :29:06.We have a global challenge initiative on the issue of inclusive
:29:07. > :29:11.growth, where we bring together leaders, figuring out how it is we
:29:12. > :29:15.can work together to change systems. Discussion is the first step. That
:29:16. > :29:21.is one thing we have done. If you look at other areas we have worked
:29:22. > :29:26.on, for example, rainforests, we are working on both trying to protect
:29:27. > :29:28.the devastation of rainforests while increasing the productivity of
:29:29. > :29:33.agriculture at the same time. Dealing again with the inclusiveness
:29:34. > :29:38.of the growth process of those people who live in rainforests. I
:29:39. > :29:44.asked about low wages and inequality. Another example is that
:29:45. > :29:47.many of our big companies in a project they did together all
:29:48. > :29:54.committed to hiring a large number of young people into internship
:29:55. > :29:57.programmes. This started a few years ago. We have already touched many
:29:58. > :30:02.thousands of young people, which is a big problem in Europe in
:30:03. > :30:08.particular. There are commitments we follow through on. In 1971, the kind
:30:09. > :30:14.of people at Davos and about 40 times the average wage of the people
:30:15. > :30:18.who work for them. Today it's closer to 160 or 170 times. That's the
:30:19. > :30:23.inequality. A lot of people will think Davos is part of the problem,
:30:24. > :30:27.the people there are part of the problem? They pay themselves so
:30:28. > :30:29.much, they pay their workers in real terms less and less. They are the
:30:30. > :30:37.problem, not the solution. I don't think tts only inequality
:30:38. > :30:41.problem in the world. The fact is that labour has not seen an increase
:30:42. > :30:44.in wages. That's true. We came up the idea of a social context
:30:45. > :30:47.yesterday where business leaders are committing to, you know, take
:30:48. > :30:52.efforts to avoid this sort of inequality. But it is not just about
:30:53. > :30:56.what CEOs earn and what the rest of the populous earns. What I'm much
:30:57. > :30:59.more worried about is the fact that medium incomes has not gone up. The
:31:00. > :31:04.middle class is not seeing improvement and this is' where we
:31:05. > :31:07.are focussing and at the same time let's keep in mind poverty has
:31:08. > :31:11.dropped massively in recent years, and this has a lot to do with a
:31:12. > :31:19.well-regulated market-based economy. All right, let me bring Douglas
:31:20. > :31:27.Carswell back N The The sort of corporate cleptocratss. That means
:31:28. > :31:32.thieves. Well #24er what war web jp Haasings and the East India Company
:31:33. > :31:37.used to be. The value of the shares lost 30% of its value, 30% of money
:31:38. > :31:41.and yet executives running businesses awarded themselves 80%
:31:42. > :31:46.pay increases. Corporate governance has broken down, we have capitalism
:31:47. > :31:51.without capitalists. A final question, to you, Jenny. With the
:31:52. > :31:57.election of Mr Trump, with the Brexit vote, with the rise of
:31:58. > :32:03.political insurgents across Europe, this year and many elections, is
:32:04. > :32:11.Davos past its peak, not just out of touch, it is over, really. A were
:32:12. > :32:15.professor from Harvard once said - the conventional wisdom of Davos is
:32:16. > :32:20.always wrong, that you are wrong so often that you are now in decline?
:32:21. > :32:22.Well, if I go back it something you said before, about the sub-prime
:32:23. > :32:26.crisis, I don't think anybody saw it coming. In terms of whether Davos is
:32:27. > :32:30.fit for purpose, we've reinvented ourselves year after year to I can
:32:31. > :32:35.at that on key issue that is really important on the global agenda. So,
:32:36. > :32:38.do I think we are pass say, no? . Particularly because I think we are
:32:39. > :32:42.constantly bringing new voices in, young voices from around the world
:32:43. > :32:45.and I very much home because there is no other framework for
:32:46. > :32:48.public-private discussion like we have, we will be fit for purpose in
:32:49. > :32:51.the future. Thank you for joining us. We'll let you get back to the
:32:52. > :32:54.proceedings. Representatives of the devolved
:32:55. > :32:56.administrations have been meeting UK government ministers in Westminster
:32:57. > :32:59.this morning, to talk about - Theresa May said in her
:33:00. > :33:03.speech that she wanted the governments of Scotland,
:33:04. > :33:05.Wales and Northern Ireland to be But the SNP have said this week
:33:06. > :33:08.that the UK government's policy to leave the single market makes
:33:09. > :33:10.a second independence Mike Russell, the Scottish
:33:11. > :33:15.government's spokesman on Brexit, spoke to the BBC on his
:33:16. > :33:18.way into the meeting. We were meant to be
:33:19. > :33:20.involved in decisions, I think there will be a general view
:33:21. > :33:26.that that breached the process What do you expect to come
:33:27. > :33:30.out of this meeting? Well, I'm hopeful we'll take forward
:33:31. > :33:32.the options in the paper that we've submitted,
:33:33. > :33:34.and particularly the options of Scotland remaining a member
:33:35. > :33:36.of the single market, They have been well-supported
:33:37. > :33:41.across the board and I'll be We take the Scottish Government's
:33:42. > :33:45.proposal seriously. We'll have a discussion
:33:46. > :33:48.about them today. We're going to be involved over
:33:49. > :33:51.a period of time in these discussions and I'm meeting
:33:52. > :33:53.Mr Russell again next So let's see what he has to say
:33:54. > :33:56.at today's presentation. I've said I'm open-minded
:33:57. > :33:59.on a whole range of issues but the Scottish Government has
:34:00. > :34:01.to come forward with an evidence Joining me now is Joanna Cherry,
:34:02. > :34:17.the SNP's Westminster spokesperson Welcome to the programme. Mike
:34:18. > :34:22.Russell who we just heard there, says, implied that the EU single
:34:23. > :34:26.market is more important than the UK single market. Why is that? Well, I
:34:27. > :34:32.think they are both more important to Scotland. It's a little-known
:34:33. > :34:36.fact this, but England, Scotland is actually England's biggest export
:34:37. > :34:44.destination. So, our aim is to remain part of the EU single market,
:34:45. > :34:49.and the UK single market. Why would the EU single market, as Mr Mr
:34:50. > :34:54.Russell's mind, be more important than the UK single market? I think
:34:55. > :34:58.what Mike is getting at is the fact that for us at the moment the growth
:34:59. > :35:02.market is the EU. Scotland's exports to the EU are growing. How much do
:35:03. > :35:05.they send to the EU? I cannot give the precise igs F I can, ?12
:35:06. > :35:10.billion. Just under, 11.6. How much do you export to the rest of the UK?
:35:11. > :35:14.Last year we expected about ?46 billion and the rest of the UK
:35:15. > :35:18.exported into Scotland about ?52 billion. You will see Scotland is
:35:19. > :35:23.actually a bigger export market for the rest of the UK. What's important
:35:24. > :35:29.about that. No, hold on. You just admitted, the actual figure last
:35:30. > :35:33.year was ?48.5 billion. I'm taking the most recent. Well the most
:35:34. > :35:41.recent ones are coming out today, this week, I have not seen them.
:35:42. > :35:44.?48.5 million to the rest of the UK, verses ?12 billion to the rest of
:35:45. > :35:48.the EU. Your exports to the rest of the UK are four times your exports
:35:49. > :35:52.to the EU. In what way account EU single market be more important than
:35:53. > :35:57.the UK single market? It is our growth market. It is four timing
:35:58. > :36:02.bigger the UK You are pos itting this question to me as though we had
:36:03. > :36:05.to make a choice between the UK and EU single market. David Davis went
:36:06. > :36:08.to Ireland and spoke to businessmen and women in Dublin and he said that
:36:09. > :36:12.the Republic of Ireland will not need to choose after Brexit between
:36:13. > :36:15.its commitment to the UK and its commitment to the EU. We believe
:36:16. > :36:19.that if Scotland stays in the single market and the rest of the UK does
:36:20. > :36:23.not, then Scotland will not and should not have to choose between
:36:24. > :36:27.its commitment to the EU and the rest rest of the UK as trading
:36:28. > :36:34.markets and my point in saying this to you, awe weren't far off on
:36:35. > :36:39.figures I said ?4646 billion from Scotland to -- ?46 billion to
:36:40. > :36:46.Scotland. My point is, that Scotland is Britain's biggest export mark it
:36:47. > :36:51.would be a kamikaze action to create a hard border between Scotland and
:36:52. > :36:54.England. We're not interested in that, we're interested in respecting
:36:55. > :36:57.the wish of the Scottish people to remain in the EU. I heard you
:36:58. > :37:01.talking about a veto earlier. We are not interested in that. We believe
:37:02. > :37:04.that the wishes of the rest of the UK, England and Wales, not Northern
:37:05. > :37:07.Ireland, to leave the EU, must be respected, in the same way that the
:37:08. > :37:12.wish of the Scots to Remain should be the ared. That's why we've put
:37:13. > :37:15.forward in compromise proposal that my colleague, Mike Russell is
:37:16. > :37:18.current willy discussing in the joint ministerial committee. Now
:37:19. > :37:22.that compromise, you will see, Andrew, you will know that we
:37:23. > :37:26.suggested that the whole of the UK could remain in the single market.
:37:27. > :37:31.That has been ruled out Theresa May ruled that out on Tuesday in her
:37:32. > :37:36.speech. One might question her motives. It is ruled out. Our
:37:37. > :37:40.fallback position was Scotland should remain in the single market.
:37:41. > :37:43.The Spanish have said that's not going to happen Well, the Spanish
:37:44. > :37:48.may have said it is not going to happen but the Spanish like the rest
:37:49. > :37:50.of us are going into a negotiation. We heard Theresa May specifically
:37:51. > :37:55.talk about the wishes of the Spanish fishermen to have access to the
:37:56. > :38:00.fisheries around the UK, so people might state what their ideal
:38:01. > :38:05.position is, in any negotiation, but there is room for give and take.
:38:06. > :38:09.Well, the so Secretary of State for Europe in Spain. There is only one
:38:10. > :38:13.negotiator, that's the UK Government - if the UK leaves the single
:38:14. > :38:18.market, the whole of the UK leaves the single market. That's one voice
:38:19. > :38:24.out of 27 others. You need all 27. It is a strong one. That is why I
:38:25. > :38:26.and my colleagues have been travelling around the European
:38:27. > :38:28.Union, since the Brexit vote speaking to other Member States.
:38:29. > :38:34.Let's look at the Spanish situation in particular. On the fringes of
:38:35. > :38:39.Spain we have Gibraltar. It is in a slightly an op louse position. It
:38:40. > :38:45.voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the European Union. Gibraltar is
:38:46. > :38:48.in the EU but not the customs union. The Channel Islands are in the
:38:49. > :38:51.customs union but not until the EU. There is existing scope and
:38:52. > :38:56.precedent for differential arrangements. Now we are are in
:38:57. > :39:01.completely unchartered territory. No member state has voted to leave the
:39:02. > :39:04.EU. So it is unchartered. Equally the proposals which the Scottish
:39:05. > :39:13.Government have put forward are unchartered Terry. Hold on a minute
:39:14. > :39:18.your proposal, basically proposed the devolution of almost everything
:39:19. > :39:22.to the Scottish Parliament -- immigration, separate business
:39:23. > :39:24.regime. Corporation tax. Everything. It's basically a blueprint for
:39:25. > :39:28.independence. The British Government is not going to agree to that. Well,
:39:29. > :39:33.let's see what the British Government... You would need a hard
:39:34. > :39:38.border if you had that. Your own immigration. No, David Davis has
:39:39. > :39:41.told us when Britain leaves the European Union and the Republic of
:39:42. > :39:45.Ireland remains a member there will be no hard border between the north
:39:46. > :39:49.and South. The Republic of Ireland is not a member of shengin. You
:39:50. > :39:54.would be a new member, that may be a price you have to pay It is a member
:39:55. > :39:56.of the common travel area, which has been in existence before the
:39:57. > :39:59.European Union and which Scotland has been a member of since way
:40:00. > :40:04.before the European Union, so what we are looking for here, in our
:40:05. > :40:09.compromised proposals is a compromise in the situation... It is
:40:10. > :40:14.not a compromise, it is a demand for independence by the back door. It is
:40:15. > :40:16.not, Andrew. Well, one of the people sitting on the council, Sir Charles
:40:17. > :40:21.Grant who was involved in this process you went through, said that
:40:22. > :40:26.these plans are not legally, politically or technically feasible.
:40:27. > :40:30.Equally, David Edwards, my former tutor and distinguished former judge
:40:31. > :40:34.at the European Court of Justice, who sits on the panel, has said that
:40:35. > :40:39.the proposals should be looked at seriously. Now that's one of the
:40:40. > :40:43.finest legal brains in Scotland. Let me bring in Douglas Carswell in.
:40:44. > :40:46.Scotland didn't vote to leave the European Union. It's now having to
:40:47. > :40:49.leave the European Union, and the single market. You can understand
:40:50. > :40:54.why they are upset? Well, I suspect that some in the SNP would see any
:40:55. > :40:58.event as a pretext to call for a second referendum. But, I think it's
:40:59. > :41:03.important to remember that more people in Scotland voted to stay in
:41:04. > :41:09.the UK, just over 2 million, than voted to remain in the EU. We made
:41:10. > :41:15.the decision as a United Kingdom, on our EU membership, and, you know, my
:41:16. > :41:20.side won that... They were promised if they voted... I'm sorry, there
:41:21. > :41:25.was a referendum. I feel for you. It was promised to us in Scotland if we
:41:26. > :41:28.voted to remain part of the UK, we will remain part of the EU. That
:41:29. > :41:35.promise has broken. Circumstances have changed. Indeed it has, it was
:41:36. > :41:39.a very important point. It was said the way to vote to stay in the EU
:41:40. > :41:43.was to vote for Scotland to stay in the UK. A quick question for you. In
:41:44. > :41:48.the current timetable Britain is scheduled to leave the EU in March
:41:49. > :41:51.2019. Will there be a referendum on Scottish independence before then?
:41:52. > :41:56.Whether or not there will be a referendum depends on the British
:41:57. > :41:59.Government's suppose response to our proposals and that's what is under
:42:00. > :42:03.discussion in the jount ministerial committee this morning. We do not
:42:04. > :42:07.know. We do not know but if they ditch the proposals and dent look at
:42:08. > :42:12.them seriously, it is likely there will be another independence
:42:13. > :42:16.referendum. Before March 2019. The First Minister said it will not be
:42:17. > :42:23.this year We'll see how the timetable unfolds thereafter. That
:42:24. > :42:28.would only believe 2018 Now, we like to ask the big
:42:29. > :42:32.Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the world?
:42:33. > :42:36.Our guest of the day, Douglas Carswell, says he's very
:42:37. > :42:40.But, he argues, most mainstream politicians have a pessimistic view,
:42:41. > :42:44.and that is bad news for us and for our society.
:42:45. > :42:48.# You've got to accentuate the positive
:42:49. > :43:06.When we think of politics, we often place politicians
:43:07. > :43:16.and their policies on a spectrum between left and right but the real
:43:17. > :43:18.divide in politics today isn't between left and right.
:43:19. > :43:30.# Just when everything looked so dark...#
:43:31. > :43:35.Do you, like me, believe that the world is looking up,
:43:36. > :43:36.that the human condition, however imperfect,
:43:37. > :43:42.Do you believe that modernity, particularly in its Western
:43:43. > :43:46.form is a corruption of the human condition?
:43:47. > :43:52.This difference in our attitude towards the past
:43:53. > :43:56.Because if you believe we've come down, you invite people to impose
:43:57. > :44:02.a blueprint as the solution and that's been the pretext of every
:44:03. > :44:08.If, instead, you recognise that the world has been getting
:44:09. > :44:13.better, you are half way to accepting the liberal idea
:44:14. > :44:16.of a self-organising society, with no need for grand plans and no
:44:17. > :44:21.Guess which way of looking at things most politicians prefer?
:44:22. > :44:23.The one that puts them centre stage, obviously.
:44:24. > :44:26.# You've got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
:44:27. > :44:30.# Bring gloom (down to the minimum)...#
:44:31. > :44:32.Liberals have lost sight of the idea of a self-organising society,
:44:33. > :44:42.Which is why they side with those supernational
:44:43. > :44:45.agencies, and organisations, who want to organisation
:44:46. > :44:55.Too many self-styled progressives fail to appreciate quite how much
:44:56. > :45:03.Living standards are at a record high.
:45:04. > :45:05.Income and equality is lower today in Britain
:45:06. > :45:11.Violent crime is almost half what it was in the 1990s
:45:12. > :45:14.and my favourite, a moving car in Britain today emits less
:45:15. > :45:17.pollution than a stationary one did in the 1970s.
:45:18. > :45:19.No wonder progressive Liberalism is in such a funk.
:45:20. > :45:28.Cheer up, the world really is getting better.
:45:29. > :45:30.And to discuss this further we're joined by Guardian
:45:31. > :45:48.Are you in a progressive funk? No, not at all! Is an odd day as Donald
:45:49. > :45:52.Trump is getting inaugurated tomorrow. Douglas is a great
:45:53. > :45:58.politician because he is a great -- freethinker in wild terms. He has
:45:59. > :46:03.got his head in the clouds. He is a kind of right wing anarchist. You
:46:04. > :46:09.believe in no government, self organising. Where does that get us?
:46:10. > :46:13.I think I believe that what we do collectively together is better than
:46:14. > :46:18.anything we do as individuals on our own. I look at how this government
:46:19. > :46:21.has, in the last six years, dismantled huge part of government.
:46:22. > :46:28.You look at the NHS beginning to fall apart, something we were
:46:29. > :46:32.proudest of. Environmental health officers no longer really check on
:46:33. > :46:35.most restaurants. Things that we expect as a fundamental part of
:46:36. > :46:46.civilised society are being stripped away. Let's get a dialogue. Respond
:46:47. > :46:50.to that? When I was growing up, the right always seemed to be the doom
:46:51. > :46:56.mongers. They were represented by old buffers. The left were the
:46:57. > :47:00.people who wanted to build the new Jerusalem. I can't help thinking
:47:01. > :47:04.that the reason the left is in such an existential crisis is precisely
:47:05. > :47:08.because it sees change and improvement as some sort of decline.
:47:09. > :47:13.And I think Polly has illustrated that rather neatly. All of the
:47:14. > :47:21.change and improvements, grow from the left. They have brought us the
:47:22. > :47:27.things we must admire and value. What we do together as a society is
:47:28. > :47:33.what makes civilisation. You are against planning. When the left
:47:34. > :47:37.believed in an organised society, when they were truly liberal, they
:47:38. > :47:43.achieved huge change in the 19th century. But the liberal left has
:47:44. > :47:48.lost sight of the idea of humans as their own agents. It believes in
:47:49. > :47:53.blueprints. Whether that is socialism, environmentalism... They
:47:54. > :47:58.like to tell the rest of us what to do. You are one of the most
:47:59. > :48:07.ideological people, in an interesting way, in the House of
:48:08. > :48:16.Commons. You have a neoliberalism. We're not here to talk about your
:48:17. > :48:21.iss! We are here to look at your proposition that Mike is proposition
:48:22. > :48:26.that the left is in a funk because it is not going your way. Mr Trump
:48:27. > :48:31.is about to be inaugurated. The government in this country may be as
:48:32. > :48:35.bad as you say. It is also 17 points ahead in the polls. The French
:48:36. > :48:40.Socialist party is about to be wiped out. The Greek Socialist party has
:48:41. > :48:46.already been wiped out. That is why you are in a funk. I'm not in a funk
:48:47. > :48:51.but it is true, the ride is winning everywhere. We are in an
:48:52. > :48:54.extraordinary era. Who knows whether the right will sweep across Europe?
:48:55. > :48:59.We have crucial elections this year in France and Germany. We will get a
:49:00. > :49:07.better idea. I think it was so badly overreach itself that we will see
:49:08. > :49:12.people returning to the idea... The fixation we have now where people
:49:13. > :49:18.are used to choosing things for themselves is not going to be
:49:19. > :49:22.regarded as credible, I'm a politician and I can fix your public
:49:23. > :49:29.services. That model in the Netflix country we now live in is no longer
:49:30. > :49:36.viable. Self commissioning. Self pain for the NHS. Can we not going
:49:37. > :49:42.there for the moment? That is a wider discussion. Let me keep this
:49:43. > :49:47.discussion on the basis of the commission, who is unhappy and who
:49:48. > :49:52.isn't. You accused Polly's side of the argument of being gloomy,
:49:53. > :49:56.negative, putting things down. Hasn't the rise of Ukip comic indeed
:49:57. > :50:02.even the vote for Brexit, wasn't that partly the kind of
:50:03. > :50:10.atmosphere... Things aren't what they used to be? If we had allowed
:50:11. > :50:14.those people, and there are those -- people take that position, if we had
:50:15. > :50:19.allowed those people to run the referendum campaign, we would have
:50:20. > :50:23.lost 70-30. We offered the optimistic vision which we heard
:50:24. > :50:31.again today from Theresa May. You want to take back control. You are
:50:32. > :50:38.saying your -- no control, take all the controls of. You won on the idea
:50:39. > :50:44.of tighter controls. It was an authoritarian message. Not yours but
:50:45. > :50:49.the rest of your party. That's not what we said. If your scepticism had
:50:50. > :50:53.been that pessimistic, gloomy force, we would have been wiped out in the
:50:54. > :51:04.1980s. The fact that we won and build a new coalition... Let's not
:51:05. > :51:08.fight the referendum again! They said they didn't turn out in enough
:51:09. > :51:14.numbers for you to win. Mr Trump, does that put a smile on your face?
:51:15. > :51:18.I think I would have voted for the governor of New Mexico, the one who
:51:19. > :51:24.didn't know where Aleppo was, because he was the best of a bad
:51:25. > :51:29.bunch. I am a libertarian. Does Mr Trump put a smile on your face? A
:51:30. > :51:38.wouldn't have been my choice but America has voted for him. Let's see
:51:39. > :51:45.what happens. Do you have two... If your side is losing the argument on
:51:46. > :51:49.so many fronts at the moment, if in practice you are losing, do you have
:51:50. > :51:56.to wait for the other side to get in, make a mess of it and then come
:51:57. > :51:59.back? Are you waiting on that? It's never enough. One thing you said is
:52:00. > :52:05.absolutely right. You only ever win with an optimistic vision. You only
:52:06. > :52:10.ever win by saying you've got your new Jerusalem, I've got mine. My due
:52:11. > :52:15.-- my new Jerusalem is better than yours. That is the way all politics
:52:16. > :52:20.works. You have the fear of the dismantlement of the state on one
:52:21. > :52:24.side. People are losing services. We are seeing schools losing huge
:52:25. > :52:28.chunks of money per people as well as patients. I don't think people
:52:29. > :52:33.want that. I think they want a vision of something better. Things
:52:34. > :52:39.can only get better, as someone said. Things can only end, which is
:52:40. > :52:39.what is happening to this discussion.
:52:40. > :52:43.Now, there's little more than 24 hours until Donald Trump takes
:52:44. > :52:46.the presidential oath of office and assumes his role as the most
:52:47. > :52:49.As he takes on this awesome responsibility, journalists around
:52:50. > :52:51.the world are competing to land that exclusive interview.
:52:52. > :52:55.Well, one such reporter who has done just that is our
:52:56. > :53:02.Yes, he is among that elite group of hacks to have been granted some
:53:03. > :53:06.I know what you're thinking - this is a huge scoop
:53:07. > :53:12.Did I mention this interview was in 2014?
:53:13. > :53:20.Last week, Donald Trump revealed he uncharacteristicically said no
:53:21. > :53:28.Over the weekend I was offered $2 billion to do a deal
:53:29. > :53:32.in Dubai with a very, very, very amazing man,
:53:33. > :53:36.a great, great developer from the Middle East,
:53:37. > :53:42.Hussain, Damac, a friend of mine, great guy.
:53:43. > :53:47.But back in 2014, before Donald Trump was too busy to decline
:53:48. > :53:51.lucrative business opportunities in the United Arab Emirates,
:53:52. > :53:54.thanks to a deal with that great guy, Hussain Ali Sajwani,
:53:55. > :53:56.the CEC of Damac, the Trump family adorned billboards advertising
:53:57. > :53:59.an 18-hole golf course at the heart of a huge real estate
:54:00. > :54:04.development, billed as the Beverly Hills of Dubai.
:54:05. > :54:07.Well, Donald Trump drew us here all here to look
:54:08. > :54:10.at what he called his "vision" on an empty piece of land
:54:11. > :54:14.As a BBC reporter out there two-and-a-half years ago,
:54:15. > :54:17.I was invited to film and meet the man himself,
:54:18. > :54:21.as he played to the cameras with a 30-second journey
:54:22. > :54:25.fashion, at the Trump-branded multi-billion pound development.
:54:26. > :54:29.When we sat down together, I was keen find out how much
:54:30. > :54:31.the billionaire had personally invested in Dubai, after it had
:54:32. > :54:36.bounced back from a devastating financial crash five years earlier.
:54:37. > :54:41.I don't talk about how much I invest but I believe in Dubai
:54:42. > :54:44.and it's certainly something I would be very happy to invest in.
:54:45. > :54:48.Can you give us an indication of what you are dipping your toe in,
:54:49. > :54:50.your arm, half your body, something like that?
:54:51. > :54:53.Well, if you think about it, I have my name at stake also,
:54:54. > :55:04.After inaugurating this hole on this half-finished golf course
:55:05. > :55:09.in the middle of the desert, the impressively handicapped,
:55:10. > :55:12.soon-to-be septugenarian was so proud of his shot,
:55:13. > :55:14.he wanted the ball framed, so he asked his aide, Larry
:55:15. > :55:18.to search through the surrounding sand and find it.
:55:19. > :55:28.We should get that ball Larry, and frame it.
:55:29. > :55:30.But after all this glitz and glamour, Donald Trump was served
:55:31. > :55:33.up a curve ball by a reporter from Vice News at
:55:34. > :55:37.He side-stepped allegations that workers on this development
:55:38. > :55:41.So, I thought I'd try asking about it, but I,
:55:42. > :55:46.I'm trying to give you a very open-ended question,
:55:47. > :55:49.about workers' rights in this region, if there was something,
:55:50. > :55:52.a stand you would take or a vision that you'd have?
:55:53. > :55:54.I think he has been pretty clear on that.
:55:55. > :56:04.Let me answer a couple and we'll be done with it.
:56:05. > :56:09.Well, it's a big issue, I'm not making this up.
:56:10. > :56:13.I mean, this is something that everyone would want to ask
:56:14. > :56:16.the top businessman, like yourself, this has got
:56:17. > :56:18.to do with real estate, it is about construction.
:56:19. > :56:20.Well, just to put it in a very short form,
:56:21. > :56:23.I always like to see everybody treated well and I'm sure that's
:56:24. > :56:26.happening over in Dubai because the workers are so important
:56:27. > :56:29.to what we are doing and what everybody else
:56:30. > :56:32.is doing and I love to see people treated well.
:56:33. > :56:38.But one person he didn't think was treating the American
:56:39. > :56:42.people well, back in 2014, was President Barack Obama.
:56:43. > :56:45.We have a lack of leadership at the top and the President has not
:56:46. > :56:49.done a good job and a lot of people are agreeing, even his own people
:56:50. > :56:53.are agreeing that it has not worked out well for President Obama.
:56:54. > :56:55.Looking back, perhaps this was his first pitch for the job.
:56:56. > :56:59.The good news is we have tremendous potential and with the right leader,
:57:00. > :57:02.this country can turn around so quickly, it will be unbelievable.
:57:03. > :57:07.Eventually we'll get the right person.
:57:08. > :57:09.You don't want it to go too far down.
:57:10. > :57:12.But, eventually I think we'll get the right person and when we do,
:57:13. > :57:16.America's next President still talks about himself in the third person.
:57:17. > :57:18.Perhaps, in front of our very eyes, two-and-a-half years ago,
:57:19. > :57:40.Here is mark with Donald Trump at that interview. That is Ivanka Trump
:57:41. > :57:46.with him. Mark is not doing the films of sign, unlike some reporters
:57:47. > :57:54.who did. No names! Proper professionalism! Donald Trump once
:57:55. > :57:56.massive unfunded tax cuts, huge infrastructure programme, all of
:57:57. > :58:06.which will increase the deficit normally. -- enormously. None of
:58:07. > :58:10.that is on your agenda? I fear he is shifting from monetary stimulus to
:58:11. > :58:14.fiscal stimulus. I personally, if I were advising and I'm not, I would
:58:15. > :58:19.say that is unwise. The American state should live within its means.
:58:20. > :58:23.If it doesn't do that, it will go the way of all states that have
:58:24. > :58:27.lived beyond their means. Congress, the beauty of the American system is
:58:28. > :58:33.the separation of powers. Congress will have a say. I suspect his
:58:34. > :58:35.biggest obstacle will be Republican appointed judges and the Senate. We
:58:36. > :58:39.shall see. The One O'Clock News is starting
:58:40. > :58:42.over on BBC One now. I will be on BBC One
:58:43. > :58:44.with Michael Portillo, Jess Phillips, Quentin Letts,
:58:45. > :58:46.Anthony Seldon and Polish politician Radoslaw
:58:47. > :58:48.Sikorski from 11:45. And I'll be here at noon tomorrow,
:58:49. > :58:51.with all the big political stories of the day.
:58:52. > :58:53.Do join me then. Parents are facing an explosion in
:58:54. > :59:06.the number of children saying