31/01/2017

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:00:36. > :00:38.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:39. > :00:42.MPs are about to begin two days of debate over the bill that

:00:43. > :00:44.will give the Government the authority to get the formal

:00:45. > :00:49.So will it get through Parliament without any hiccups?

:00:50. > :00:53.We speak to MPs from across the political spectrum.

:00:54. > :00:54.Protestors gather outside Downing Street last night

:00:55. > :00:59.to voice their anger at Donald Trump's immigration ban.

:01:00. > :01:00.Overnight the President sacked his acting Attorney General

:01:01. > :01:09.Unlike the eventual trains, the High Speed Two Bill has been

:01:10. > :01:15.But it could soon get to its desired destination.

:01:16. > :01:22.Conservative grandee Nicholas Soames is forced to apologise for making

:01:23. > :01:27.what he calls a "friendly canine salute" to a fellow MP.

:01:28. > :01:42.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

:01:43. > :01:44.of the programme today is Angela Smith, Labour's leader

:01:45. > :01:53.So, in just over half an hour MPs will finally start debating

:01:54. > :01:55.the Government's Article 50 Bill, with Labour warning of civil

:01:56. > :01:58.disturbances and people taking to the streets if Parliament votes

:01:59. > :02:00.against triggering the Brexit process.

:02:01. > :02:14.If it is approved it will give the Government the authority to trigger

:02:15. > :02:16.leaving that you use. -- leaving the EU. What lies ahead?

:02:17. > :02:19.MPs will begin five days of debate on the European Union Notification

:02:20. > :02:21.of Withdrawal Bill, which has its second reading today

:02:22. > :02:23.and tomorrow before coming back before MPs next Monday

:02:24. > :02:27.Despite being only 133 words long, MPs are queuing up

:02:28. > :02:29.to modify the Bill - with Labour, the SNP,

:02:30. > :02:31.the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party all looking

:02:32. > :02:40.The SNP have promised to put down 50 amendments but so far have

:02:41. > :02:44.only published four, including a reset clause that

:02:45. > :02:48.would keep the UK in the EU if an exit deal can't be reached

:02:49. > :02:55.Both the SNP and Labour will look to put down amendments calling

:02:56. > :02:58.for EU nationals resident in the UK to be given a guarantee

:02:59. > :03:08.Labour plan on putting down a further series of amendments,

:03:09. > :03:10.including forcing the Government to protect workers' rights

:03:11. > :03:13.The Liberal Democrats want to put down three amendments including

:03:14. > :03:16.on having a second referendum where the options will be to accept

:03:17. > :03:24.While the Green Party are going for an even more

:03:25. > :03:25.extreme alternative - a so-called reasoned amendment that

:03:26. > :03:33.would see the whole Article 50 process killed stone dead.

:03:34. > :03:36.Few, if any, amendments are likely to pass in the Commons given Labour

:03:37. > :03:38.support for the Bill - but opponents could have more

:03:39. > :03:40.success in the Lords, which will begin its debate

:03:41. > :03:48.Lords were told last night Ministers want them to have passed

:03:49. > :03:51.the Bill by March 7th - in time for Theresa May to go

:03:52. > :03:54.to the EU summit that weekend to trigger Article 50 and begin

:03:55. > :04:00.As always at times like this, our political correspondent

:04:01. > :04:02.Norman Smith is in the thick of things - he joins us

:04:03. > :04:15.You can never criticise us for not being consistent! Norman, how big a

:04:16. > :04:18.moment is this today? A big moment because it is something Theresa May

:04:19. > :04:23.desperately wanted to avoid. She would not be here worried about the

:04:24. > :04:28.Supreme Court saying you absolutely have to pass legislation -- were it

:04:29. > :04:32.not for the Supreme Court saying. Hundreds amendments have been

:04:33. > :04:37.tabled, there will be a bust up over the pace at which legislation is

:04:38. > :04:42.being pushed. Maastricht was on the floor of the house for weeks, so

:04:43. > :04:47.there will be an argument over why the Government still has not publish

:04:48. > :04:51.this paper it first promised back in December. Still we have not got it.

:04:52. > :04:56.There would be plenty of argy-bargy and aggro, but at the end of the day

:04:57. > :05:01.the one thing pretty much everyone seems to agree on is that Theresa

:05:02. > :05:05.May will in all probability ghetto legislation and in the time frame

:05:06. > :05:10.she wants, namely by the end of March -- will in all probably get

:05:11. > :05:16.her legislation. Her opponents are divided, Tory rebels believe now is

:05:17. > :05:21.not the time to stand up to Mrs May, three, the House of Lords, partly

:05:22. > :05:27.through self preservation do not want to stand up against the

:05:28. > :05:31.referendum and for the most importantly, Jeremy Corbyn has

:05:32. > :05:36.ordered his MPs to back the bill. At the end of the day, Labour MPs will

:05:37. > :05:41.be expected to back the measure even though some will defy him and some

:05:42. > :05:46.will provide -- resign from the backbench in order to not do that --

:05:47. > :05:50.will resign from the front bench. As you repeated, the list of amendments

:05:51. > :05:57.is long. Would it be whittled down to one of two macro by the end? It

:05:58. > :06:04.will be hacked back to three or four. The key amendment as far as I

:06:05. > :06:09.can see it suggests there should be a meaningful vote before Theresa May

:06:10. > :06:15.strikes a deal on Brexit. She has promised a vote after she has done a

:06:16. > :06:18.deal. I do not expect that amendment will be passed in the immediate

:06:19. > :06:25.weeks in which MPs and peers debate this bill, but there is a body of

:06:26. > :06:30.opinion that wants to see down the line, maybe as part of the Great

:06:31. > :06:34.Repeal Bill or other Parliamentary vehicles, whether there can be a

:06:35. > :06:40.mechanism whereby MPs are guaranteed a vote before Mrs May takes us out

:06:41. > :06:43.of the EU. We don't get that clash, but I expect that in time those

:06:44. > :06:45.opposed to Brexit will make their stand there. Thank you very much,

:06:46. > :06:47.Norman Smith. I'm joined now by Conservative MP

:06:48. > :06:49.and former minister John Penrose and the Liberal Democrat

:06:50. > :06:51.former cabinet minister Alistair Carmichael who now sits

:06:52. > :06:59.on the Brexit select committee. Welcome to you both. Alistair

:07:00. > :07:02.Carmichael, as you will probably expect, Brexit Secretary David Davis

:07:03. > :07:08.would accuse you today of abusing the trust of the British people, it

:07:09. > :07:13.is hard to argue with that logic. I will not start losing sleep about

:07:14. > :07:18.accusations from David Davies, it is pretty predictable. The argument

:07:19. > :07:21.about trust from the referendum is important. I know lots of people

:07:22. > :07:25.were told things would be possible in the event that they voted to

:07:26. > :07:29.Leave, we're now told that these things will not happen and we hear

:07:30. > :07:33.from Government ministers, Philip Hammond in particular, that they now

:07:34. > :07:38.want to take the Government in a very particular direction. A small

:07:39. > :07:42.Government, low regulation, low tax economy. That runs directly in the

:07:43. > :07:48.opposite direction from the promises made up having extra money to spend

:07:49. > :07:54.on public service. Remember the famous ?350 million a week? Where is

:07:55. > :08:00.the respect for the result of the referendum? It all just shows how

:08:01. > :08:03.you need to be careful when you come to bouncing around these

:08:04. > :08:08.accusations, let's take it step-by-step and try to have the

:08:09. > :08:12.most mature debate. Is that what the Government is doing, taking Britain

:08:13. > :08:17.in the direction of a low tax, to use Jeremy Corbyn's phrase, bargain

:08:18. > :08:20.basement economy? A bloke I think that is a fallback if it all goes

:08:21. > :08:25.horribly wrong but I don't think that is what we are aiming for.

:08:26. > :08:29.There has been cross-party agreement and trying to preserve workers'

:08:30. > :08:34.rights and so on. It is only if the EUG feels they have is over a barrel

:08:35. > :08:38.and can push us towards a dreadful deal, it is to make sure people

:08:39. > :08:43.understand that a bad deal is worse than no deal, as the Prime Minister

:08:44. > :08:47.rightly said. That is further down the line, let's concentrate on the

:08:48. > :08:52.debate today and tomorrow, Alistair Carmichael, you will not be putting

:08:53. > :08:55.down in till the committee stage next week, so is it not incumbent on

:08:56. > :09:01.you and your colleagues to at least vote through the bill on its second

:09:02. > :09:05.reading? We have tabled the reasoned amendment today, which makes it

:09:06. > :09:09.clear that we decline to give the bill a second reading because it

:09:10. > :09:13.makes no provision for a referendum, because, as you said in your

:09:14. > :09:18.introduction, the White Paper we have been promised has not yet been

:09:19. > :09:23.published. And because the Government has used Parliamentary

:09:24. > :09:27.procedure to avoid giving things like what are known as money

:09:28. > :09:30.resolution some sort. The Government is still trying to do what the

:09:31. > :09:34.Supreme Court has said they are not allowed to do by law, which is to

:09:35. > :09:39.sideline parliament and keep control. How was Parliament is being

:09:40. > :09:42.sidelined? The Government has only brought forward the bill, not the

:09:43. > :09:48.other ancillary measures that normally go with it. That is why we

:09:49. > :09:51.are putting down the amendment. There have been 69 Parliamentary

:09:52. > :09:56.debates on the outcome of the EU referendum since the 23rd of June.

:09:57. > :09:59.If anybody can really, hand on heart, say there has not been a

:10:00. > :10:05.chance for Parliament to scrutinise this decision then, really, you are

:10:06. > :10:10.being facetious. As you well know there is a world of difference

:10:11. > :10:14.between Parliament having general debates that don't have votes, and

:10:15. > :10:19.then a meaningful debate of the sort we have today which is a second

:10:20. > :10:23.reading of a bill, that is... John Penrose, where is this white paper?

:10:24. > :10:27.We were promised it, David Davis said it would not happen, Theresa

:10:28. > :10:31.May pulled the rabbit out of the hat at PMQs and said it would happen,

:10:32. > :10:34.you were a Remainer, presumably you would like to see what is being set

:10:35. > :10:46.out by the Government when you said that you like the single market, you

:10:47. > :10:48.said that on the eve of the referendum, it means jobs when local

:10:49. > :10:51.firms export to Europe so relieving would cost jobs. You would like to

:10:52. > :10:54.see a White Paper? Yes, I was delighted when it was announced. I

:10:55. > :10:58.want to see before the start of the negotiations. Not before the

:10:59. > :11:02.triggering of Article 50? Above that would mean it has to be out before

:11:03. > :11:06.Article 50 is triggered, before the end of March or whatever.

:11:07. > :11:10.On the basis of your support for the single market she would support a

:11:11. > :11:17.Lib Dem amendment to keep us in the single market? No, I am a Remainer

:11:18. > :11:21.but I was a Democrat first. We have taken a collective decision in the

:11:22. > :11:25.referendum, I was on the losing side but I respect that, because we have

:11:26. > :11:29.taken that decision it is up to is to deliver it in the best way

:11:30. > :11:33.possible, I think most of the Labour Party is on the same page. Would you

:11:34. > :11:39.put down an amendment on the lines of staying in the single market? We

:11:40. > :11:43.would like to see a degree of Parliamentary scrutiny. Why you have

:11:44. > :11:47.such a short time for debate is that the Government spent three months

:11:48. > :11:49.fighting the courts not to come to Parliament, which is really

:11:50. > :11:55.outrageous. Parliament should decide this. I don't believe whether

:11:56. > :11:58.people's views were Remain or Leave that there is a single member of

:11:59. > :12:03.Parliament or the House of Lords who does not want the best deal for the

:12:04. > :12:07.UK. That means different things were different people, do you support a

:12:08. > :12:13.second referendum? , It was for the people to decide. The Lib Dems lost

:12:14. > :12:17.the referendum on voting systems, on the EU and now it is calling for

:12:18. > :12:25.another one, ludicrous. The key thing is that must be Parliamentary

:12:26. > :12:28.scrutiny. All these debates we have had have been about trying to get

:12:29. > :12:33.information from the Government which never had a plan, has no

:12:34. > :12:37.information. There needs to be built into this legislation reporting back

:12:38. > :12:41.to Parliament and working and engaging with Parliament, that is

:12:42. > :12:45.missing and is serious. I think it is a false choice to

:12:46. > :12:50.start saying that some Parliamentary debates are more equal than others.

:12:51. > :12:54.Oh, come on extra measure not of course they are wrecks formation not

:12:55. > :12:59.there may be votes on bills and other measures, but nope Prime

:13:00. > :13:06.Minister weathered salt will ignore a sizeable vote, however it is

:13:07. > :13:11.framed. Even on the single market? These things matter because it tells

:13:12. > :13:15.us how Parliament will.... That is ridiculous, all the debates and

:13:16. > :13:19.questions have been trying to get information from the Government.

:13:20. > :13:22.This Government agreed to put the referendum... David Cameron said I

:13:23. > :13:28.will stay on and sing it through, disappeared, it is a Government

:13:29. > :13:35.without a plan. -- stay on and see it through. Will labour Lords vote

:13:36. > :13:41.to trigger Article 50? We will not block or delay the bill? Article 50

:13:42. > :13:47.will be triggered. But this is not a blank check that the Government to

:13:48. > :13:53.do what it wants. Woman Mark Roe -- Theresa May wants to invoke article

:13:54. > :13:58.50. You say you will not block the bill and you know that timing is

:13:59. > :14:02.crucial, you say you have legitimate concerns on a blank cheque, what

:14:03. > :14:06.does that mean practice? We will listen to what happens in the House

:14:07. > :14:10.of Commons, I would be optimistic that the House of Commons in its

:14:11. > :14:16.wisdom would have an amendment that brings through Parliamentary

:14:17. > :14:21.scrutiny chewing the process. -- during the process. To answer more

:14:22. > :14:25.fully, if that does not happen, the only thing open to the House of

:14:26. > :14:30.Lords is to as the House of Commons to look at it again. This is not

:14:31. > :14:33.blocking or delaying, but say to the House of Commons, think about this

:14:34. > :14:37.and have another look. I don't think that would be unreasonable if we get

:14:38. > :14:42.about, but if the House of Commons is to say that it wants that

:14:43. > :14:45.scrutiny, we would support them. So the Lords could bat it back to

:14:46. > :14:47.the Commons and they think again before triggering Article 50, what

:14:48. > :15:04.would that do to the timetable? Within the British people would be

:15:05. > :15:11.enthusiastic about. If it is within the timetable... What we will no

:15:12. > :15:16.doubt see is hysteria from some who think any questioning of the

:15:17. > :15:18.Government is a constitutional outrage. It would be a

:15:19. > :15:24.constitutional outrage not have questioning.

:15:25. > :15:33.The timetable is entirely of Theresa May's on making. She chose to waste

:15:34. > :15:40.month in the courts. Deed think it was a waste of time, John Penrose?

:15:41. > :15:49.No, it was not. It was perfectly arguable. Particularly and

:15:50. > :16:00.constitutionally it was a disgrace to try and sideline parliament. But

:16:01. > :16:05.in the end the Supreme court... They have said the Labour Party will not

:16:06. > :16:11.block the attempt but they are split. Jeremy Corbyn says there will

:16:12. > :16:19.be a whip for MPs. What was the mood last night like at the PLP? There

:16:20. > :16:24.was great support for Keir Starmer and the amendments he has put

:16:25. > :16:29.through. The main focus of last night's meeting was the amendments

:16:30. > :16:33.we are putting down which unites the Parliamentary Labour Party. But you

:16:34. > :16:38.have 50 or 60 MPs who will defy the party? When we get into committee

:16:39. > :16:43.and we are discussing the amendments, there is a really broad,

:16:44. > :16:47.strong agreement around the amendments needing parliamentary

:16:48. > :16:52.scrutiny. It is about trying to get Parliament to have a say. But there

:16:53. > :16:57.is a split in the Labour Party. But the main issue is the amendments.

:16:58. > :17:08.There are split in the Liberal Democrats. How many will vote? I'm

:17:09. > :17:16.delighted to say you are not the Chief Whip. You have Norman Lamb

:17:17. > :17:25.talking about voting against articles 50. Other MPs are thinking

:17:26. > :17:30.about their constituencies. There are there are divisions in the

:17:31. > :17:35.Liberal Democrats. There are divisions in all parties.

:17:36. > :17:39.Incidentally, it is so important that we don't just say that the

:17:40. > :17:43.referendum on the 23rd of June was the last word on this, it was the

:17:44. > :17:46.start of a process, it is an evolving process and at the end of

:17:47. > :17:51.it, the people having started the process, it should be the people

:17:52. > :17:54.through a referendum that should be allowed to give their judgment and

:17:55. > :17:58.end it. Why is the government so frightened of amendments being put

:17:59. > :18:02.to the House and being voted through? There is nothing wrong with

:18:03. > :18:12.them being put to the House. But not voted through! As long as we talk

:18:13. > :18:15.about it! The question is, are they good amendments and is this the

:18:16. > :18:19.right bill for them as well? This is a very simple bill saying began to

:18:20. > :18:24.press the button to start the process. There is an enormous amount

:18:25. > :18:30.of further detail as the deal is negotiated, as the details come out.

:18:31. > :18:36.But this is the key point. We have to make sure that Parliament is kept

:18:37. > :18:40.informed as things come out. All of which is why we should have had the

:18:41. > :18:44.white Paper before the bill. That is how it works. You do your

:18:45. > :18:48.consultation first. When you have heard the views of people, you come

:18:49. > :18:55.forward with legislation. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

:18:56. > :19:00.The question for today is what did a member of the Treasury's Wellbeing

:19:01. > :19:02.work stream suggest could be a hazard to their colleagues' health?

:19:03. > :19:04.Was it: The Chancellor's fiscal statements?

:19:05. > :19:10.At the end of the show Baroness Smith will give us

:19:11. > :19:21.Now, to events on the other side of the Atlantic.

:19:22. > :19:23.And overnight Donald Trump fired his acting Attorney General

:19:24. > :19:33.after she questioned the legality of his immigration measures.

:19:34. > :19:36.Yesterday Ms Yates ordered justice department lawyers not to enforce

:19:37. > :19:48.Sally Yates was appointed by Barack Obama only 11 days ago

:19:49. > :19:50.on the day of Donald Trump's inauguration.

:19:51. > :19:53.She was an acting Attorney General and was due to be replaced

:19:54. > :19:55.by Donald Trump's choice for the role, Jeff Sessions,

:19:56. > :19:57.who was awaiting approval from the US Senate.

:19:58. > :19:59.Yesterday Ms Yates ordered justice department lawyers not to enforce

:20:00. > :20:03.In a letter, she said: "As long as I am the acting attorney general,

:20:04. > :20:06.the department of justice will not present arguments in defence

:20:07. > :20:12.Well, that act of defiance meant she didn't remain in the job very

:20:13. > :20:15.long: within hours the White House said she had been "relieved

:20:16. > :20:18.of her duties" and said she had "betrayed the department of justice

:20:19. > :20:21.by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens

:20:22. > :20:28.On this side of the Atlantic, President Trump's executive order

:20:29. > :20:31.has been causing some embarrassment for the British government which has

:20:32. > :20:33.since said it does not agree with the policy.

:20:34. > :20:36.Yesterday the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, was summoned

:20:37. > :20:39.to the Commons to respond to questions from MPs.

:20:40. > :20:50.Let me begin by saying that this is not UK policy,

:20:51. > :20:53.it is not our policy, nor is it a measure that this

:20:54. > :21:00.I've already made clear our anxiety about measures that discriminate

:21:01. > :21:06.on grounds of nationality in ways that are divisive and wrong.

:21:07. > :21:09.All he can say is that, well, it would not be our policy.

:21:10. > :21:19.Has he urged the US administration to lift this order, to help refugees

:21:20. > :21:28.This order was signed on Holocaust Memorial Day.

:21:29. > :21:29.For the sake of history, for heaven's sake,

:21:30. > :21:34.I have made my views absolutely clear.

:21:35. > :21:37.I've said that it's divisive, I said that it's wrong and I've said

:21:38. > :21:42.that it stigmatises people on grounds of their nationality.

:21:43. > :21:45.But what I will not do, what I will not do,

:21:46. > :21:48.which is what I think the party opposite would do, is disengage

:21:49. > :21:54.from conversations with our American friends and partners in such a way

:21:55. > :21:59.as to do material damage to the interests of UK citizens.

:22:00. > :22:03.And would my right honourable friend agree in paraphrasing

:22:04. > :22:07.a far wiser president, John F Kennedy, that those

:22:08. > :22:12.that ride on the back of a tiger end up inside it?

:22:13. > :22:15.Does my right honourable friend accept there is a universal threat

:22:16. > :22:19.from jihadists and that Europol itself, as an example,

:22:20. > :22:22.have estimated there are upto 5000 jihadists that have come over

:22:23. > :22:26.from several of these countries about on the furthermore,

:22:27. > :22:31.we should also remember the victims of 9/11 in New York,

:22:32. > :22:36.7/7 in London, Paris, Brussels and Berlin,

:22:37. > :22:44.Try to recall, along with me, as I hid underneath the stairs

:22:45. > :22:49.when two fascist dictators, Mussolini and Hitler,

:22:50. > :22:54.were raining bombs on towns and cities in Britain.

:22:55. > :23:01.Now this Government's hand-in-hand with another fascist Trump,

:23:02. > :23:04.and what I say to him, do the decent thing

:23:05. > :23:14.This man is not fit to walk in the footsteps of Nelson Mandela.

:23:15. > :23:16.Well, I hesitate to say that the honourable gentleman's

:23:17. > :23:18.memory must be at fault if he thinks Mussolini rained bombs

:23:19. > :23:31.I'm joined now from Brussels by the Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan.

:23:32. > :23:38.Welcome to the Daily Politics. First of all, an Sally Yates, the former

:23:39. > :23:41.acting Attorney General, was she right when she said she was not

:23:42. > :23:45.convinced that the executive order was legal, and if she was right,

:23:46. > :23:52.wasn't she also crept when she said they should not follow the executive

:23:53. > :23:58.order through -- was she also correct? My own view is the

:23:59. > :24:01.executive order was an abuse of power. I think decisions of this

:24:02. > :24:05.kind should be referred to the legislature and I don't see any

:24:06. > :24:09.reasons why Donald Trump could not have presented his proposals to the

:24:10. > :24:14.two chambers. So in that view she is right. It is worth pointing out as

:24:15. > :24:18.Trump advocates are doing, that are very different standard was applied

:24:19. > :24:22.when Barack Obama used executive orders to change policy, but the

:24:23. > :24:28.fact that it has been abused before does not make it correct now. When

:24:29. > :24:33.you say it is an abuse of power, the fact that Donald Trump got rid of

:24:34. > :24:40.her and also his acting immigration chief, does that not smack of an

:24:41. > :24:42.autocrat? Yes, I would not have voted for Donald Trump precisely

:24:43. > :24:48.because I thought he had his character flaws and so far I have

:24:49. > :24:52.been vindicated. And so people are totally justified to protest what

:24:53. > :24:56.they see as a dangerous road towards autocracy and they hope that

:24:57. > :25:00.pressure in the States and here will lead to him changing his executive

:25:01. > :25:06.order or sending it or relaxing it in some way in terms of the ban

:25:07. > :25:10.which you say is an abuse of power. And if that is effective, you need

:25:11. > :25:18.to have a laser light concentration on what is actually wrong. This was

:25:19. > :25:25.a hasty ban which through the immigration immigration service into

:25:26. > :25:32.chaos. No US national has been killed on US soil by a national of

:25:33. > :25:36.any of those country since people started looking at this in 1975, and

:25:37. > :25:41.a measure of this kind should not be taken by executive order. An abuse

:25:42. > :25:46.of power does not make it any better when it happens this time. If people

:25:47. > :25:53.had restricted their concerns to those lines, rather than just

:25:54. > :25:56.shouting fascist Nazi, they would be more effective at uniting a broad

:25:57. > :26:02.coalition against him but of course people like to indulge themselves by

:26:03. > :26:05.shouting racist, fascist Nazi and that is what floats their boat. Is

:26:06. > :26:12.that the problem that you are in danger of losing the debate of

:26:13. > :26:18.criticising Donald Trump that if you resort to lazy analogies, the Nazis,

:26:19. > :26:21.the Holocaust, Donald Trump being compared to those dictators? I think

:26:22. > :26:25.there are very clear reasons why this should worry us. It gives an

:26:26. > :26:32.indication of the presidency of Donald Trump. It is spontaneous like

:26:33. > :26:38.the demonstrations planned last night, they were not organised or

:26:39. > :26:41.planned. People want to make a spontaneous protest, we have to

:26:42. > :26:47.understand that, but what we saw yesterday was a decision that was

:26:48. > :26:51.not evidence -based. It was made hastily without legal back-up. It

:26:52. > :26:55.was random in its application. We don't know why some countries and

:26:56. > :26:59.not others. There is no evidence base for it. And there was not a

:27:00. > :27:03.debate or discussion which could have gone through Congress, and that

:27:04. > :27:08.is what worries me. We need to have a presidency that is rooted in fact,

:27:09. > :27:14.rooted in reason and it worries me also our relationship with Donald

:27:15. > :27:19.Trump and the presidency of the USA. What did Theresa May no following

:27:20. > :27:23.the meeting? They walked out hand-in-hand like two good friends

:27:24. > :27:28.on their first date, almost. Then this very serious issue emerged that

:27:29. > :27:35.British citizens were being affected and we took so long to respond to

:27:36. > :27:39.it. Let's put that to Daniel. Was she to slow, Theresa May, about what

:27:40. > :27:44.she might have known about what he would sign off in his executive

:27:45. > :27:48.order. Was she to slow to react to criticise which in the end hampered

:27:49. > :27:55.the chances of British citizens to clarify what their situation would

:27:56. > :27:57.be? And think it is really important to distinguish between disapproving

:27:58. > :28:03.of Donald Trump's actions and wanting good relations between the

:28:04. > :28:07.US and United Kingdom. In almost every country in the world we will

:28:08. > :28:11.find something to objective. I did not particularly agree with France's

:28:12. > :28:15.burqa band that I would never suggest for a moment we should stop

:28:16. > :28:20.the French leader from coming here or Angela Merkel having a federal

:28:21. > :28:24.Europe. I should not suggest not having close relations with Germany.

:28:25. > :28:28.I don't think anyone is suggesting that. There are two things. One is

:28:29. > :28:33.that of course Theresa May will meet with Donald Trump and will meet with

:28:34. > :28:37.other leaders across the world. I think the concern is that just a few

:28:38. > :28:41.days into his presidency, when we have not got the measure or

:28:42. > :28:45.understood what that President will be like, a state visit is being

:28:46. > :28:52.arranged, and I think it is a bit unseemly to draw the Queen into this

:28:53. > :28:54.kind of controversy when it took two years for Barack Obama, three years

:28:55. > :28:58.for George W Bush. I think the Prime Minister is in danger of falling

:28:59. > :29:05.into the David Cameron mould of government way you look at quick

:29:06. > :29:08.decisions, and don't deal with the consequences in the long term.

:29:09. > :29:15.Daniel Hannan what is your view of that we did not have to use this

:29:16. > :29:20.state visit type of diplomacy? My guess is that they are deciding

:29:21. > :29:23.right from the beginning they want to emphasise the closeness of the

:29:24. > :29:26.relationship between us and the world's largest economy and chief

:29:27. > :29:31.military power which is no bad thing. The US alliance has been the

:29:32. > :29:35.cornerstone of our foreign policy since at least 1942. The US is the

:29:36. > :29:39.biggest investor in Britain, we are the biggest investor in the US. A

:29:40. > :29:44.million Americans turn up to work for British companies and a million

:29:45. > :29:46.Brits turn up to work for American companies. This is an

:29:47. > :29:51.extraordinarily important relationship and it goes beyond

:29:52. > :29:55.anyone mad or any president. Can I say to Angela Smith, the key is he

:29:56. > :29:58.was elected and he did promise to do these things. He did say he would

:29:59. > :30:07.have a complete and utter shutdown in terms of Muslims coming into the

:30:08. > :30:09.country. I know they have since denied this is a ban on a particular

:30:10. > :30:14.religion, he is enacting what he said he would do.

:30:15. > :30:20.Nobody should be surprised that he has acted in this way, which is more

:30:21. > :30:24.surprising that Theresa May did not raise these issues in the meeting.

:30:25. > :30:27.When he said to her there would be some sort of plan a refugee she did

:30:28. > :30:32.not probe further to ensure it would not impact UK citizens, which it

:30:33. > :30:34.did. On the subject of Britain 's nation Chibok Donald Trump, what to

:30:35. > :30:40.the great British public thing? -- Well, on the subject

:30:41. > :30:41.of Britain's relationship with Donald Trump, what do

:30:42. > :30:44.the Great British public think? Our Ellie has been out

:30:45. > :30:49.with the mighty moodbox. Welcome to wonderful Watford. Lovers

:30:50. > :30:53.in the. Special relationships are a question for today, what should the

:30:54. > :31:00.relationship be with Donald Trump, keep close all keep our distance?

:31:01. > :31:15.# Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?

:31:16. > :31:21.# Just like birds... Me, they long to be, close to you.

:31:22. > :31:26.I would like a close relationship, but not with Trump. We get close to

:31:27. > :31:31.him politically as much as we can, it would be good for the UK.

:31:32. > :31:37.Distance relationship. Why? I think he is an idiot. Distant, to

:31:38. > :31:42.be quite honest. All the laws he is trying to bring in and the human

:31:43. > :31:55.rights, we are human beings at the end of the day. Who are you speaking

:31:56. > :31:57.to? My mum, what do you think about Donald Trump, mum? I don't think we

:31:58. > :32:05.have ever done this by telephone before! Hard to say. She can stay on

:32:06. > :32:10.the phone. It is a bit of a thing and Watford. We should have a close

:32:11. > :32:15.relationship, keep an eye on what he is doing. Keep your friends close

:32:16. > :32:22.that your enemies closer, right? Do I detect an accent? West Brom?

:32:23. > :32:29.Watford. I don't think Theresa May knows what she is getting involved

:32:30. > :32:34.with, he is not right. We have to accent for people vote four, Trump

:32:35. > :32:39.was voted in. I think a lot of what he wants to do is for the good of

:32:40. > :32:43.the people. I don't think he is a good man for

:32:44. > :32:49.the world. Don't we need him for trade deals and stuff? No. We love

:32:50. > :32:54.him. Why do you love him? This was a mood

:32:55. > :32:58.box about the special relationship, although some want a close

:32:59. > :33:05.relationship, the overwhelming majority favour distance. Would be

:33:06. > :33:09.needing this, then! -- we won't be needing this.

:33:10. > :33:16.Obviously that is totally unscientific, as wonderful as it is.

:33:17. > :33:20.To go back to the discussion we had before, he won on a very clear

:33:21. > :33:23.campaign when it came to immigration, Angela, according to

:33:24. > :33:30.some polls, more Americans support the ban on refugees, Syrian

:33:31. > :33:34.refugees, and a ban on people coming from this designated countries. He

:33:35. > :33:38.is entitled to do what he has done. Yes, but he has to understand there

:33:39. > :33:43.will be criticism. Part of the problem is process as well as the

:33:44. > :33:47.decision. To say no refugees, to make people think he is somehow

:33:48. > :33:52.making them safer when there is no evidence, it is conning the public

:33:53. > :33:59.in the US. There was huge outpouring in the US as well. This is a sign of

:34:00. > :34:04.the presidency he will have, our relationship with Donald Trump, and

:34:05. > :34:07.I do not suggest that we do not have one, state visits are formal and

:34:08. > :34:10.very special and I am not sure he has earned the right yet. We had to

:34:11. > :34:14.look out for British interests and Theresa May fail to do that in their

:34:15. > :34:19.meeting last week. I would like to know more about what was discussed,

:34:20. > :34:25.and at all time she has to maintain British interests and maintain

:34:26. > :34:29.British values in meetings with him. Dan Hannan, did she hugged him to

:34:30. > :34:41.close? I think she got it right, it was not just a meeting with him, she

:34:42. > :34:43.established relationships with Mitch McConnell, Paul Aiton, other

:34:44. > :34:45.Republican leaders, the US has a divided and balanced constitution

:34:46. > :34:48.not just about one man. She was focused on British interests, she

:34:49. > :34:54.steered him in a direction much closer to what we wanted on torture,

:34:55. > :34:58.Nato, sanctions against Putin. It was not subordinate, it was an

:34:59. > :35:02.alliance between two old, serious democracies. She put her stamp on

:35:03. > :35:07.what the relationship should be. Her job is not to be a finger wagging

:35:08. > :35:11.nanny, it is to look after our interests and by implication the

:35:12. > :35:15.wider Western alliance, she has done that to the latter. That is about

:35:16. > :35:23.holding your enemies even closer, she was the first in the queue, the

:35:24. > :35:26.state visit might have been a weapon of diplomacy, she can to ferret, a

:35:27. > :35:30.date has not been put on it. It is not like the Queen has not

:35:31. > :35:35.entertained other controversial figures in the past. Theresa May

:35:36. > :35:39.went over there, it was a bit of a coup being first but I am not sure

:35:40. > :35:44.there was much of the queue with the European leaders. The relationship

:35:45. > :35:47.with Trump will be delicate. He is rather McCue real, not likely to

:35:48. > :35:54.stick to things he says one day and then changes the next. Did you want

:35:55. > :35:58.to criticise openly at the press conference? Before she had even

:35:59. > :36:04.landed in the UK he was taking decisions affecting UK national

:36:05. > :36:08.switch he had to clarify and change. Based in law it seems to be dubious,

:36:09. > :36:12.she did not say anything for too long. Being in the special

:36:13. > :36:15.relationship means being a critical friend, she has shied away from

:36:16. > :36:16.taking the action we would expect a British prime ministers to take.

:36:17. > :36:19.Thank you, Dan Hannan. Now, plans for the first phase

:36:20. > :36:22.of HS2, a new high speed rail line linking London and the north

:36:23. > :36:25.of England, are almost at the point After three years of shuttling

:36:26. > :36:29.between the Lords and the Commons, yesterday the High Speed Rail Bill

:36:30. > :36:37.survived a final It faces its third reading in the

:36:38. > :36:37.Lords today and could receive Royal assent later this month.

:36:38. > :36:40.The bill authorises the construction of the first section of track

:36:41. > :36:42.between London and Birmingham and sets certain precedents for how

:36:43. > :36:48.The first section is due to be completed in 2026.

:36:49. > :36:50.However, building the next section of the line will

:36:51. > :36:58.Critics call it a white elephant, saying the money could be better

:36:59. > :37:00.spent elsewhere and the project is already over-time

:37:01. > :37:03.But the Government maintains the scheme will provide vital

:37:04. > :37:11.capacity on already congested trains.

:37:12. > :37:15.I'm joined now by Antoinette Sandbach,

:37:16. > :37:18.the Conservative MP for Eddisbury - a constituency where part

:37:19. > :37:21.of the new high speed line will be built, and the Labour peer

:37:22. > :37:23.Andrew Adonis, a former Transport Secretary and one

:37:24. > :37:30.He now sits on the board. Welcome to you both. We are in the final phase

:37:31. > :37:35.of three and a half years of pretty painstaking Parliamentary work, the

:37:36. > :37:41.end for this first section of track is in sight, did you expect it to

:37:42. > :37:44.take this long? In terms of massive infrastructure, this is the largest

:37:45. > :37:48.infrastructure project in your, it has not taken that long. It was hard

:37:49. > :37:51.to get planning decisions through in less than three years. Looking at

:37:52. > :37:56.international high-speed rail schemes, only the Chinese have moved

:37:57. > :38:00.faster on a scheme of this scale, which is not necessarily a good

:38:01. > :38:03.president. It has been a very thorough Parliamentary process, all

:38:04. > :38:08.of those affected have put their case to the House of Commons and

:38:09. > :38:11.House of Lords, but it has moved with deliberate speed. If you look

:38:12. > :38:19.at other decisions like Heathrow, which we spent 40 years now, this is

:38:20. > :38:23.just a piece of tarmac, building another runway, high speed to... Not

:38:24. > :38:27.everybody would agree with that analysis. Berigaud high-speed two

:38:28. > :38:31.was 100 miles in the first phase and then another 200... People would say

:38:32. > :38:38.it is a long time for 100 miles of railway which will not be completed

:38:39. > :38:40.until 2026. This covers phase one between London and Birmingham, your

:38:41. > :38:45.constituency will not be affected by phase one but would be by the light

:38:46. > :38:50.extending north of that. What are your objections? They have not

:38:51. > :38:54.learned the lessons from phase one, they are making decisions without

:38:55. > :38:57.looking at the actual ground conditions that apply, and an

:38:58. > :39:03.independent expert report has indicated that there will be

:39:04. > :39:08.additional ?750 million worth of cost just in relation to 22

:39:09. > :39:16.plummeted as of track near my constituency. Because? -- 22

:39:17. > :39:23.kilometres of track. It is in an area at high risk of subs --

:39:24. > :39:28.subsidence. Has this been looked into, that the truck could think

:39:29. > :39:33.about point? I am not an engineer, this is a debate that needs to

:39:34. > :39:43.continue. Even just getting the first phase of HS2 up to Birmingham,

:39:44. > :39:49.it will be more years before it goes further north. It is about early

:39:50. > :39:53.engagement. HS2 were aware of the problems and heard from geologists

:39:54. > :39:57.early on and did not listen. This decision has taken over two years,

:39:58. > :40:01.and for a relatively small amount of money they could have used up to

:40:02. > :40:05.date data to look at subsidence issues, they could have had the

:40:06. > :40:10.information before making a decision. What is the point now,

:40:11. > :40:16.what is your campaign doing now? We are almost at the end of discussion

:40:17. > :40:20.on phase one. My campaign is to say that there is an alternative route

:40:21. > :40:25.Ludger Beerbaum shorter, it could be cheaper and has less construction

:40:26. > :40:28.issues. It is about HS2 listening and learning lessons that they did

:40:29. > :40:33.not learn on phase one which has led to the ballooning cost in this

:40:34. > :40:40.project we have gone from ?30 billion to estimates of over 55, on

:40:41. > :40:45.a conservative estimate, some estimating 82. So are you not

:40:46. > :40:50.listening to concerns? There is engagement on the issues to do with

:40:51. > :40:56.the detailed geological conditions. Would it be worth having a shorter

:40:57. > :41:00.route? The decision to change the route on the eastern lines was

:41:01. > :41:03.partly because it would lead to significant savings, these

:41:04. > :41:06.discussions need to continue. It is three years until beef than

:41:07. > :41:09.decisions are taken on the route north of Birmingham when legislation

:41:10. > :41:14.is produced, these are precisely the issues that need to be gone through.

:41:15. > :41:18.Issues like tenants who are not being compensated, there are real

:41:19. > :41:25.issues in relation to phase one of the route which will affect those on

:41:26. > :41:29.phase two. It is very important that those lessons are learned, that does

:41:30. > :41:36.not seem to be the case, which is white residents' Commissioner has

:41:37. > :41:40.been appointed. -- which is why a residence' commissioner. Residents

:41:41. > :41:46.in my area were not notified of local engagement. That has been

:41:47. > :41:50.rectified but it is a simple error. On geological conditions, my

:41:51. > :41:54.understanding is that HS2 is looking at these and there is time to get

:41:55. > :41:58.this right. It sounds like some concerns have been met and

:41:59. > :42:01.rectified, the Conservative MP Graham Evans in one constituency may

:42:02. > :42:05.bring yours has said it is worrying when a very small group of people

:42:06. > :42:09.from the tiniest sliver of one of the wealthiest areas in the country

:42:10. > :42:14.seek to threaten an infrastructure project which would benefit many in

:42:15. > :42:18.the country, that is your position? This is an independent risk --

:42:19. > :42:22.independent report which says there are geological issues which will

:42:23. > :42:28.affect it. Should you hold the whole project on the basis of that? I

:42:29. > :42:32.suggest that HS2 needs to go back to the original Wright assessment and

:42:33. > :42:37.look back at those original decisions in relation to the cost

:42:38. > :42:41.information that they now have. This is exactly the discussion which

:42:42. > :42:45.should take place at the moment. They have not been taking place.

:42:46. > :42:51.They are and they need to continue. In terms of the robustness, when

:42:52. > :42:56.people say we can't build big infrastructure and it is always

:42:57. > :43:02.mired in controversy and endless planning, the first phase of HS2

:43:03. > :43:06.shows that is not the case. Where there is a resolve to act and it is

:43:07. > :43:12.possible to get cross-party consensus when I launched it in the

:43:13. > :43:19.last Labour Government to the Royal assent, you can move. At what cost.

:43:20. > :43:25.Big adjustments have been made. What is the cost running to? The

:43:26. > :43:30.Institute of Economic Affairs estimate it at over 100 billion, the

:43:31. > :43:39.Department for Transport themselves estimate it at 55 billion. I should

:43:40. > :43:46.say that IEA is not an independent observer. A big issue we need to

:43:47. > :43:51.look at is the Treasury, when these projects come to fruition, puts in a

:43:52. > :43:54.very big buffer for what they call contingency, which pushes up the

:43:55. > :43:58.cost by more than a third from the original costs through to the end

:43:59. > :44:02.costs. My own view is that putting in such big allowances for

:44:03. > :44:10.contingency simply encourages inflation. We should not ignore the

:44:11. > :44:13.fact that the biggest infrastructure project in Europe is on track, about

:44:14. > :44:18.to become more and there will be diggers on the ground next year.

:44:19. > :44:23.You heard it here first, are you a fan? It was a Labour project in the

:44:24. > :44:26.first place, I am very enthusiastic, and it disappoints me that a

:44:27. > :44:31.Conservative peer was trying to stop it added very last hurdle, which is

:44:32. > :44:39.ironic given from what we heard from the Conservative Party. Are

:44:40. > :44:42.different subject. The Parliamentary processes have gone through on the

:44:43. > :44:46.engagement of this bill for three years, it is a huge bill. I

:44:47. > :44:51.understand there are constituency issues, the engagement we have next,

:44:52. > :44:55.that process continues, if we sat back all the time we would never get

:44:56. > :44:58.these things done at all and I pay enormous tribute to Andrew, who from

:44:59. > :45:03.the very beginning has wanted this project and been involved.

:45:04. > :45:09.Antoinette, as the plan stand would you vote against the Government when

:45:10. > :45:14.a bill for phase two comes to Parliament? As they stand, yes. The

:45:15. > :45:17.Public Accounts Committee, the National Audit Office, they have all

:45:18. > :45:21.questioned the delivery of this project, it is marked at Amber to

:45:22. > :45:26.read in terms of its benefit delivery, I don't understand why the

:45:27. > :45:29.Labour Party as an opposition party are not doing much deeper drilling

:45:30. > :45:33.down into the cost overruns that there clearly are and looking at

:45:34. > :45:40.whether or not this can deliver value for money. This is approved by

:45:41. > :45:44.the Conservative Party in opposition Government thank you.

:45:45. > :45:47.As we heard earlier, it's not just Labour

:45:48. > :45:49.and the Liberal Democrats looking to put down amendments

:45:50. > :45:53.With the five days of debate just beginning in the chamber,

:45:54. > :45:55.what about the other parties looking to get involved?

:45:56. > :45:57.And will they stand any more chance of success?

:45:58. > :46:01.We're joined now from Central Lobby by Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh,

:46:02. > :46:03.the SNP's trade spokesperson in Westminster, and

:46:04. > :46:19.Welcome to both of you. The SNP are putting down 50 amendments to this

:46:20. > :46:24.bill. There are only 50 SNP MPs. Is this a publicity stunt? How many of

:46:25. > :46:33.these amendments have been written? All of these have been written and

:46:34. > :46:40.not as a publicity stunt. The Scottish Parliament are the first to

:46:41. > :46:44.publish a plan for Theresa May. This is a very serious set of

:46:45. > :46:47.circumstances and we are going into this debate with the full name and

:46:48. > :46:51.ambition to get the best deal for Scotland and the whole of the United

:46:52. > :46:55.Kingdom, because it would appear to us and everybody watching, that the

:46:56. > :46:59.Prime Minister wants to escape any opportunity to debate these

:47:00. > :47:03.important issues. Is she running scared in your mind as well, Douglas

:47:04. > :47:10.Carswell, of these amendments which the Tories do not want to discuss?

:47:11. > :47:14.It is 4032 days since I was elected by my constituents on a promise of

:47:15. > :47:20.getting us out of the European Union and that process begins today. I

:47:21. > :47:23.believe we should get on with it. There is plenty of opportunity for

:47:24. > :47:28.us to debate the deal and have a vote on the deal. Today is not for

:47:29. > :47:36.us to frustrate the will of the people. I respect that Tasmina and

:47:37. > :47:39.others are against the verdict of the voters, but really, they should

:47:40. > :47:44.come clean and say that. They should not trying to hide behind

:47:45. > :47:49.parliamentary procedures. Douglas, we are not voting on a deal. We do

:47:50. > :47:53.not have a deal. We are voting on whether to invoke Article 50 in the

:47:54. > :48:02.absence of a deal. Because there is no white paper of course everyone

:48:03. > :48:04.has found reason to table a multitude of and amendments for

:48:05. > :48:08.questions which remain unanswered. Today is not the day for detail

:48:09. > :48:14.about the deal which may or may may not be negotiated. Today is about

:48:15. > :48:18.who we begin the process, do we honour and respect the verdict of

:48:19. > :48:22.the voters? To pretend that somehow there is an opportunity to discuss

:48:23. > :48:25.some of the wider issues, I would personally like to see a liberal

:48:26. > :48:29.Brexit and I have plenty to say on that, but I do think now we need to

:48:30. > :48:36.get on with it and begin that process in triggering Article 50 and

:48:37. > :48:39.making good on the referendum outcome. Let's have a look at one of

:48:40. > :48:44.the amendments with the SNP. One is that if no deal can be reached then

:48:45. > :48:50.the EU should stay -- the UK should stay in the EU on the same terms,

:48:51. > :48:53.that is hardly what was voted on? The Prime Minister said parliament

:48:54. > :48:57.can vote at the end of the process on the final deal. But what if we

:48:58. > :49:01.don't agree the final deal, then what happens? We are still going to

:49:02. > :49:05.have to come out of the EU because the two-year process will be at an

:49:06. > :49:08.end so effectively it is a fate company. What we are saying is we

:49:09. > :49:21.want agreement from the European Union should

:49:22. > :49:25.we not reach an agreement, at the very least we should be able to get

:49:26. > :49:27.back to where we were at the start? Is that realistic that that would

:49:28. > :49:30.happen, Douglas Carswell? It is probably not a great strategy to say

:49:31. > :49:33.if you don't offer us better terms we will take the terms that we have

:49:34. > :49:36.got. The SNP said they would publish its 50 amendments before the bill

:49:37. > :49:39.had been published. I suspect it sounded like a good idea when they

:49:40. > :49:41.decided what to do about this but ultimately, the majority of people,

:49:42. > :49:46.just as the majority of people in Scotland voted to remain, though

:49:47. > :49:52.majority of people in the UK voted to leave the EU and I don't think

:49:53. > :49:54.politicians should frustrate that. Guy Verhofstadt, the chief

:49:55. > :49:59.negotiator on behalf of the European Parliament said he wants the UK to

:50:00. > :50:04.remain in the single market and that is the SNP and liberal policy as

:50:05. > :50:07.well, but if this bill is passed and Theresa May Texas out of the single

:50:08. > :50:16.market, when will your second independence referendum be?

:50:17. > :50:20.Regarding Theresa May's single market statement, it took six months

:50:21. > :50:25.to reach that position so I think is fair to say she was not sure if that

:50:26. > :50:30.was the best position for the whole of the UK. Nicola Sturgeon and the

:50:31. > :50:33.Scottish Government have presented a compromise position, which is the

:50:34. > :50:37.whole of the UK does not remain in the single market, then at the very

:50:38. > :50:41.least Scotland should be able to do so. We wait to hear from Theresa May

:50:42. > :50:44.about whether she is prepared to take that deal to the table and

:50:45. > :50:52.whether she wants to be Prime Minister for the whole of the United

:50:53. > :50:58.Kingdom. But it remains in Nicola Sturgeon's remit to decide whether

:50:59. > :51:02.the next stage is for Scotland have an independence referendum and that

:51:03. > :51:09.has been at the forefront since the day the European Union result was

:51:10. > :51:12.declared. She is the First Minister of Scotland and it is her duty to

:51:13. > :51:18.make sure what the people of Scotland said and make it a reality.

:51:19. > :51:22.Theresa May has been clear that we would come out of the single market.

:51:23. > :51:30.She has said she would listen to the voices of the other devolved

:51:31. > :51:36.parliaments but even after said they would not allow Scotland to remain

:51:37. > :51:43.unless it was an independent country. There are many people who

:51:44. > :51:47.have made comments but negotiations have not begun. I think it is fair

:51:48. > :51:49.to say at the very least the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

:51:50. > :51:54.should give the Scottish Government and the other devolved parliaments

:51:55. > :52:00.and tell them this is what she is going to do. Douglas Carswell, have

:52:01. > :52:04.you got any amendments you would like to put down? No, I think we

:52:05. > :52:06.should just get on with it. There are lots of things we need to

:52:07. > :52:11.oversee and scrutinised but we can do that when we have more detail.

:52:12. > :52:15.The truth is, we will not see a lot of detail until after the German

:52:16. > :52:22.elections. Then we have a ten month window that we can scrutinise. I

:52:23. > :52:25.want us to have a liberal Brexit and have a good relationship with the

:52:26. > :52:30.EU. I think we can do that and Parliament can scrutinise that.

:52:31. > :52:34.Today is not the data do that. You are hardly holding the government to

:52:35. > :52:41.as Ukip are supposed to be doing, you sound like you are the totally

:52:42. > :52:46.signed up to Theresa May and what she's doing? I think I helped write

:52:47. > :52:49.her script so I will make sure she reads it faithfully and accurately.

:52:50. > :52:54.This is what people voted for. I think I was on your show in the

:52:55. > :52:57.run-up to the referendum and either you or Andrew Neil asked if this

:52:58. > :53:02.meant coming out of the single market and I said it did. Again and

:53:03. > :53:06.again and again we are seeing politicians trying to use procedure

:53:07. > :53:12.to frustrate the will of the people. That has been no consistency over

:53:13. > :53:17.the single market argument at all. We are heading for a hard Brexit.

:53:18. > :53:21.That is not what the whole of the UK voted for. That is a direction that

:53:22. > :53:25.Theresa May will take us fast and furious, and we will make sure we

:53:26. > :53:31.get the best deal for the whole of the UK. Tasmina you are going to

:53:32. > :53:37.stay with us. Douglas Carswell, I am slightly worried that you cannot

:53:38. > :53:44.tell the difference between me and Andrew Neil! Was that Douglas

:53:45. > :53:45.Carswell wanting to join the Conservative Party? We will leave

:53:46. > :53:49.that there. Now, MPs are often accused

:53:50. > :53:51.of being a rowdy lot, with the Speaker urging members

:53:52. > :53:54.to calm themselves so the person But yesterday - in the midst

:53:55. > :53:58.of a heated debate on new US immigration rules -

:53:59. > :54:00.the noises were more bizarre than usual, and a point

:54:01. > :54:02.of order was raised. Let's have a listen

:54:03. > :54:04.to what was said. I find myself in the unfortunate

:54:05. > :54:09.position of having to make this point of order,

:54:10. > :54:12.to which I've given you prior notice and, indeed, I've given the right

:54:13. > :54:14.honourable member from Mid Sussex During my response from the SNP

:54:15. > :54:18.benches to the Foreign Secretary's statement, I understand

:54:19. > :54:20.that the right honourable member from Mid Sussex,

:54:21. > :54:22.who has always afforded me courtesy and respect, was making

:54:23. > :54:24."woof-woof" sounding noises to what I was saying,

:54:25. > :54:26.which I find, of course, This is an opportunity, Mr Speaker,

:54:27. > :54:29.for yourself as chair, if that's not the case,

:54:30. > :54:32.for the right honourable member And if it is, in fact, the case,

:54:33. > :54:36.perhaps for you, Mr Speaker, to rule whether that is,

:54:37. > :54:38.indeed, in order. I thank the honourable lady

:54:39. > :54:41.for her point of order and for giving me the courtesy

:54:42. > :54:44.advance notice of it. The right honourable gentleman

:54:45. > :54:46.is in his place and, of course, I would want to hear

:54:47. > :54:49.from the right honourable gentleman. Mr Speaker, I, like you,

:54:50. > :54:51.thank the honourable lady for her kindness in warning

:54:52. > :54:53.that she was going I thought that in her question

:54:54. > :54:58.to the Foreign Secretary she snapped at him a bit at the end,

:54:59. > :55:01.so I offered her a friendly No offence was intended,

:55:02. > :55:07.and I apologise to the honourable And Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh

:55:08. > :55:22.is still with us. We asked Nicholas Soames for an

:55:23. > :55:27.interview that he was unavailable. Probably not a surprise. I suppose,

:55:28. > :55:31.Tasmina, in the House as you know, when it does get heated, there is a

:55:32. > :55:36.lot of noise and sometimes abusive comments and rude remarks were

:55:37. > :55:40.thrown around. Was this worse than you had experienced before? This is

:55:41. > :55:44.our place of work. I am a woman MP and it is not acceptable but abusive

:55:45. > :55:47.remarks are thrown around the chamber. We should be able to

:55:48. > :55:52.represent our constituents without having to face this. This has been

:55:53. > :56:01.going on for too long and last night was the last straw. It is disgusting

:56:02. > :56:06.for someone to make woof-woof noises and quite frankly I have had enough

:56:07. > :56:14.of it. Were you pleased that the speaker took it up and it was

:56:15. > :56:18.discussed in the House. First of all Nicholas Soames said if I was

:56:19. > :56:22.offended, of course I was offended! I wish the speaker had gone further

:56:23. > :56:26.and reminded the House and that how people are expected to behave and we

:56:27. > :56:29.should afford courtesy. We have many young people who come and visit the

:56:30. > :56:34.house of parliament. What on earth must they think about the kind of

:56:35. > :56:37.place this is if they think it is possible and people can conduct

:56:38. > :56:40.themselves in such a way? Women always find themselves at the

:56:41. > :56:44.receiving end of increased noise when they are speaking. It is about

:56:45. > :56:49.time people have listened to what we have to say and give us the respect

:56:50. > :56:52.we give others. That has been a lot of criticism about the unruly

:56:53. > :56:57.behaviour and the rudeness and particularly some of the remarks

:56:58. > :57:01.that are directed at women MPs. There was one such remark from Alex

:57:02. > :57:07.Salmond, your close colleague. He is obviously the former leader of the

:57:08. > :57:12.SNP who told Anna Soubry, a Tory MP to behave, woman, when she was in a

:57:13. > :57:16.debate. Is that also acceptable? It is fair to say in that respect that

:57:17. > :57:23.was a friendly exchange. Alex Salmond is 100% feminist. But is it

:57:24. > :57:28.right to talk in what could be seen as a condescending way. He said it

:57:29. > :57:34.couple of times, behave woman, and she took offence at the time. In

:57:35. > :57:38.general terms we should all conduct ourselves properly in the chamber

:57:39. > :57:41.and there is no cause for remarks which make that work place an

:57:42. > :57:45.uncomfortable place to be. We are talking specifically about an issue

:57:46. > :57:48.yesterday which is really the icing on the cake of so many things that

:57:49. > :57:55.women MPs have to face and quite frankly, it has to come to an end.

:57:56. > :57:58.Tasmina, thank you for joining us today.

:57:59. > :58:01.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:02. > :58:04.The question was what did a member of the Treasury's wellbeing work

:58:05. > :58:07.stream think could be a hazard to their colleagues health?

:58:08. > :58:08.Was it the Chancellor's fiscal statements?

:58:09. > :58:20.I personally think the first one is the most dangerous one, the

:58:21. > :58:27.Chancellor's Autumn Statement, but I think it is cake. It is! We have

:58:28. > :58:32.decided to break with any edict to ban cake and have our own well-being

:58:33. > :58:36.work stream for the Daily Politics. I will offer you a piece in a

:58:37. > :58:43.moment. I am not even trusted with a proper knife! I only have this

:58:44. > :58:47.problem on. I am very partial to cake. We make them in our office and

:58:48. > :58:53.share them around. Thank you for being the guest of the day. I will

:58:54. > :58:56.be back tomorrow at 11:30am with Andrew when there will be no cake

:58:57. > :59:02.left but we will cover prime ministers questions. Bye-bye.

:59:03. > :59:05.To be in the Lords, you have to be punctual...

:59:06. > :59:09.Sometimes you really do literally have to slam the door