:00:38. > :00:46.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:47. > :00:50.Jeremy Corbyn enters his own winter as Copland lose the by-election to
:00:51. > :00:56.the Conservatives. UKIP's leader Paul Nuttall failed
:00:57. > :01:02.in his attempt to win the other seat up for grabs last night in Stoke -
:01:03. > :01:05.despite a fall in Labour's We've got reaction and analysis
:01:06. > :01:14.of last night's results. Also on today's programme -
:01:15. > :01:17.we look at the prospects for power-sharing in Stormont
:01:18. > :01:18.after the snap elections And is the drive to get more women
:01:19. > :01:23.working in science putting unnecessary pressure on girls
:01:24. > :01:34.at school? All that in the next hour
:01:35. > :01:41.and with us for the whole of the programme today,
:01:42. > :01:43.the Guardian's Rafael Behr, and Cristina Odone from
:01:44. > :01:44.the Legatum Institute. So - it was a by-election night that
:01:45. > :01:53.both Labour and UKIP In the Cumbrian constituency
:01:54. > :02:02.of Copeland - held by Labour for eighty years -
:02:03. > :02:04.Jeremy Corbyn's party suffered a historic defeat
:02:05. > :02:08.to the Conservatives. The Conservative candidate,
:02:09. > :02:10.Trudy Harrison, was elected Compared to the 2015 general
:02:11. > :02:15.election, the Conservative share of the vote increased by 8% -
:02:16. > :02:17.a huge achievement, given that governing parties normally
:02:18. > :02:30.struggle in by-elections. Usually their share of the vote goes
:02:31. > :02:35.down. In fact it's the first time
:02:36. > :02:38.since 1982 that a governing party It was a different story for Labour
:02:39. > :02:42.- their vote was down by 5% compared to 2015,
:02:43. > :02:44.meaning that their candidate Third and fourth place went
:02:45. > :02:51.to the Liberal Democrats The Lib Dem vote was up by 4%
:02:52. > :03:06.while UKIP's vote fell by 9%. In Stoke the Labour candidate,
:03:07. > :03:11.Gareth Snell, staved off the UKIP challenge -
:03:12. > :03:13.winning the seat with 7,853 The Labour vote was
:03:14. > :03:30.actually down 2% on 2015. The UKIP leader, Paul Nuttall,
:03:31. > :03:35.came second with 5,233 votes. The UKIP vote was up by 2%,
:03:36. > :03:38.but they were hoping for a much bigger swing in order
:03:39. > :03:48.to win the seat. The Conservatives came
:03:49. > :03:54.a very close third. Their candidate got just 79
:03:55. > :04:06.fewer votes than UKIP. And in fourth place
:04:07. > :04:11.we have the Liberal Democrats. Just like in Copeland, their vote
:04:12. > :04:13.here in Stoke-on-Central went up, compared to the general
:04:14. > :04:18.election in 2015. Jeremy Corbyn has been taking
:04:19. > :04:20.questions from the media at an event in london this morning -
:04:21. > :04:26.including our reporter Mark Lobel. REPORTER: Mr Corbyn,
:04:27. > :04:35.is defeat in Copeland a disaster I've been talking to people
:04:36. > :04:40.there this morning. We campaigned to win it back,
:04:41. > :04:43.we campaigned to deliver for the people of Copeland
:04:44. > :04:45.the health service Theresa May has not given any
:04:46. > :04:48.guarantees whatsoever We can and we will,
:04:49. > :04:55.and we will deliver an NHS for all. We are the party that founded
:04:56. > :05:00.the NHS, we are the party that believes in health care free
:05:01. > :05:02.at the point of use That was the Labour leader's
:05:03. > :05:12.reaction. Speaking after the result
:05:13. > :05:14.was announced in Stoke, the UKIP leader said
:05:15. > :05:16.he was disappointed, but... This seat was number
:05:17. > :05:25.72 on our hit list. There's a lot more
:05:26. > :05:26.which will happen. We are not going anywhere,
:05:27. > :05:31.I am not going anywhere. So therefore we move
:05:32. > :05:38.on and our time will come. The Conservative Party Chairman,
:05:39. > :05:39.Patrick McLoughlin, gave his reaction to the result
:05:40. > :05:44.in Copeland this morning: Well, I think we've had a very good
:05:45. > :05:48.candidate in Trudy Harrison who has been a superb candidate and now
:05:49. > :05:50.Member of Parliament I think the leadership
:05:51. > :05:58.which the Prime Minister has given since she's become Prime Minister,
:05:59. > :06:02.and the clear way in which she said she wants to look at the issues
:06:03. > :06:05.which face the United Kingdom For them to lose a seat
:06:06. > :06:10.to the governing party, And that is a show of the way
:06:11. > :06:15.in which the Labour Party is just out of contact
:06:16. > :06:30.with what people are thinking. That is some of the reaction to last
:06:31. > :06:33.night's two by-elections. In Westminster people are still trying
:06:34. > :06:37.to come to terms with what it all means. Clearly a significant event
:06:38. > :06:41.in British politics. We will do more of that in the next hour on the
:06:42. > :06:46.Daily Politics give me your initial reaction to this. Copland and Stokes
:06:47. > :06:51.are different seats. The one thing that overwhelmingly comes across if
:06:52. > :06:55.you campaign to there is that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour
:06:56. > :07:00.Party, made it harder in Stoke. People felt they were lucky Paul
:07:01. > :07:04.Nuttall threw away an opportunity, that he had a stronger chance at the
:07:05. > :07:10.beginning of the campaign. Adding Copland, traditional Labour
:07:11. > :07:14.supporters, were saying on the doorstep to campaigners, you are
:07:15. > :07:24.insulting us with this man. -- and in Copeland. They said that he
:07:25. > :07:29.doesn't appear to want it. Anybody who campaigned for Labour in either
:07:30. > :07:32.of those seats will have come back under no illusions that the big
:07:33. > :07:36.problem for the party is that they have a leader nobody will ever make
:07:37. > :07:43.Prime Minister. Big implications for Labour. Conservatives delighted to
:07:44. > :07:56.win Copeland. De Paul not all throw this away? Absolutely. -- did Paul
:07:57. > :08:03.Nuttall. They were overwhelmingly in favour of Paul Nuttall there. They
:08:04. > :08:06.wanted to show that even though Ukip at won the referendum they still
:08:07. > :08:12.wanted to show they have something at its core. It wasn't forthcoming.
:08:13. > :08:19.I think he lost it, really. Last night, a crisis for the Labour
:08:20. > :08:22.Party. And Ukip. Certainly, people were saying, I spoke to people this
:08:23. > :08:25.morning who said that at the beginning of February they were
:08:26. > :08:30.worried Paul Nuttall would take the seat. But somebody described it as
:08:31. > :08:33.an anti-UKIP firewall in Stoke and it stops them cutting through.
:08:34. > :08:36.Christine is right, they are struggling to find a purpose.
:08:37. > :08:42.Theresa May deserves credit for this. It takes somebody to win a
:08:43. > :08:46.by-election as well as lose it. The fact people are expressing, whatever
:08:47. > :08:50.it is they are expressing by voting Conservative, we are used to saying
:08:51. > :08:53.there is this antiestablishment insurgency, well, hang on a moment,
:08:54. > :09:01.the people are voting for the vicar's daughter and taking the seat
:09:02. > :09:08.away from a Labour stronghold that it has been the years. Outside the
:09:09. > :09:16.very wealthy, the Richmonds in Yorkshire, the shire areas, Copeland
:09:17. > :09:24.is not one of those areas. It is an average income constituency. It has
:09:25. > :09:27.problems of low pay, not naturally fertile Conservative territory. And
:09:28. > :09:33.that is why I totally agree with you. It has been an extraordinary
:09:34. > :09:36.victory. Not only for the Conservatives but for Theresa May. I
:09:37. > :09:43.would not be surprised if this absolutely gives her the surge, the
:09:44. > :09:52.kind of emboldening effect that come who knows, snap election? No, do you
:09:53. > :09:58.think so? It is extraordinary. -- that, who knows. It is her style.
:09:59. > :10:01.But they will be looking at the numbers in Westminster. If Jeremy
:10:02. > :10:12.Corbyn stays he has a get out of jail free card. One Tory MPs said to
:10:13. > :10:17.me last night that the longer Mr Corbyn remains lead at the Labour
:10:18. > :10:22.Party, they thought the more damage would be done, and the longer it
:10:23. > :10:26.would take Labour to ever recover. It was they, kind of, brutal
:10:27. > :10:32.approach to things. Because the Labour brand starts to suffer.
:10:33. > :10:38.Starts? Let's be honest. The more liberal minded former remaining MPs
:10:39. > :10:43.were desperate for Labour to recover. They are saying we need the
:10:44. > :10:47.Labour Party to be on our side so that we have some threat to hang
:10:48. > :10:48.over the Prime Minister, saying you've got to give us more of what
:10:49. > :10:52.we want. That is the view in London. Our correspondent Iain Watson
:10:53. > :11:07.is in Whitehaven, in the heart The one that produced such a massive
:11:08. > :11:08.upset last night. It is the morning after the night before, give us a
:11:09. > :11:17.postmortem. I suppose it is. Calm after the
:11:18. > :11:23.storm. A closely fought election campaign, as you know, Andrew. I was
:11:24. > :11:28.told before midnight last night that Labour had lost. But the scale of
:11:29. > :11:33.the loss is quite surprising. They were hoping that the NHS campaign
:11:34. > :11:36.would have stemmed it but it wasn't the case. There are three
:11:37. > :11:41.interlinked problems. The first and most serious is trust. Jeremy Corbyn
:11:42. > :11:46.said what people wanted to hear. He said he was in favour of new nuclear
:11:47. > :11:51.capacity. A shift from him and his campaign in 2015. Sellafield is the
:11:52. > :11:56.biggest employer. There are problems over a new potential capacity at
:11:57. > :12:03.Moorside. He said that. People didn't trust him. The second thing
:12:04. > :12:07.is Jeremy Corbyn himself. There are Labour MPs out knocking on the
:12:08. > :12:12.doorsteps. They were saying that prompted his leadership came up and
:12:13. > :12:14.not in a good way. And the third, a slightly interesting one, which I've
:12:15. > :12:20.been finding out this morning, which is that Jeremy Corbyn is railing
:12:21. > :12:25.against the establishment. The outsider come if you like. But here
:12:26. > :12:30.he was seen as part of the problem. The town is rundown, Labour's done
:12:31. > :12:34.nothing about it. He was coming across as incumbent. You out those
:12:35. > :12:37.problems together, it doesn't bode well for the next general election,
:12:38. > :12:46.a swing against Labour here would lose them a further 50 seats. What
:12:47. > :12:51.on earth do they do now is to mark they have had a vote of no
:12:52. > :13:00.confidence in him. -- what on earth do they do now? I'm glad to see that
:13:01. > :13:04.Storm Doris has disappeared and there is sunshine behind you. Such a
:13:05. > :13:11.significant result last night there. The other important constituency, in
:13:12. > :13:16.the Midlands, Stoke, neighbour got a reduced share of the vote and Ukip
:13:17. > :13:19.was probably as big a story as anything else. There were more
:13:20. > :13:20.cameras on Paul Nuttall after the result than there were on the Labour
:13:21. > :13:23.candidate who had won and become MP. Our assistant political editor
:13:24. > :13:26.Norman Smith is in Stoke. Give us your latest on the mood now
:13:27. > :13:38.in Stoke. Some comfort for Labour in Stoke,
:13:39. > :13:43.not just because they won but they managed to repulse the perceived
:13:44. > :13:49.threat of Ukip. Many Labour MPs are drawing a huge sigh of relief. There
:13:50. > :13:55.was a view that Ukip were poised to due to labour in the North exactly
:13:56. > :14:00.what happened in Scotland. That is a big plus. For Ukip, you must say
:14:01. > :14:06.that it is a bad result, however you cut it. Although they are saying
:14:07. > :14:10.this is their 72nd target seat, it was a dirty campaign. Labour threw
:14:11. > :14:16.everything at it. Make no mistake, this was a pretty much must win for
:14:17. > :14:21.Ukip. Remember, Nigel Farage pretty much said as much. He said it was a
:14:22. > :14:27.fundamental that Paul Nuttall won here. He hasn't. He didn't get close
:14:28. > :14:34.to winning in a big pro Brexit seat. And it raises a number of questions.
:14:35. > :14:37.One, where on earth did Ukip go now? Theresa May has consolidated the
:14:38. > :14:42.Tory party. It's difficult to see Ukip making any further inroads into
:14:43. > :14:47.the Tory vote. Paul Nuttall's big idea was to hoover up fragmented
:14:48. > :14:50.disintegrated Labour voters. This is the sort of seat which should have
:14:51. > :14:57.been a prime target for him to do exactly that. Yet it simply hasn't
:14:58. > :15:01.happened. There is much more of a problem, and that is, what is the
:15:02. > :15:06.point of Ukip? We have had the referendum. People voted for Brexit.
:15:07. > :15:10.Theresa May is going full steam ahead with it, why do you need Ukip?
:15:11. > :15:17.And I'm not entirely sure they have an answer. We have covered Ukip for
:15:18. > :15:22.many years. I think we know enough. There is going to be a pretty bloody
:15:23. > :15:26.and nasty postmortem on this campaign. And Paul Nuttall will be
:15:27. > :15:31.in the eye of the storm on this, do you agree?
:15:32. > :15:39.It is not just Ukip which has taken a big hit, Paul Nuttall as leader.
:15:40. > :15:48.He has suffered a really damaging few weeks which I think will last.
:15:49. > :15:51.It is hard to see him recovering his sense of drive, ambition and
:15:52. > :15:58.confidence for the party. The more you look at Ukip, I am
:15:59. > :16:02.increasingly of the view Nigel Farage was what gave them their
:16:03. > :16:06.whole momentum. Without him, they have struggled from people who have
:16:07. > :16:10.been elected leader then chucked it in, people who did not want to be
:16:11. > :16:15.leader, the person who is leader but could not make progress. Without
:16:16. > :16:20.Nigel Farage, their central mission of Brexit, they are really beginning
:16:21. > :16:24.to struggle. I wonder whether their fate is like that of so many
:16:25. > :16:27.minority parties, they have their moment, then they go into terminal
:16:28. > :16:32.decline. Thank you. Let us get more labour
:16:33. > :16:32.reaction. We've been joined now
:16:33. > :16:37.by the Labour MP John Woodcock whose constituency of Barrow
:16:38. > :16:53.and Furness is next What are your Parliamentary Labour
:16:54. > :17:00.colleagues saying? Some are saying Copeland is marginal, it is no big
:17:01. > :17:06.deal you lost it? No, it isn't. Now, and I don't think
:17:07. > :17:12.it does anybody any favours to downplay what has happened here.
:17:13. > :17:18.This needs to be a massive rocket to the Labour Party.
:17:19. > :17:26.And to everyone in it. This is a seat which we have been blessed with
:17:27. > :17:31.as returned Labour MPs since the 1930s. And was actually the seat
:17:32. > :17:36.which recorded the biggest swing to Labour after eight years of a Labour
:17:37. > :17:45.Government in 2005 and maintained a very big majority in 2010 despite
:17:46. > :17:50.taking in Tory leaning Keswick. This is an earthquake. It is a
:17:51. > :17:56.terrible reversal for us. We all need to see it as such.
:17:57. > :18:02.Trying to say, oh, well, it was all very difficult, or it was simply one
:18:03. > :18:09.single issue, nuclear, just ignores the fact we are, for the Labour
:18:10. > :18:14.Party, we are in an historically vulnerable and parlous position now.
:18:15. > :18:18.We are trailing in the polls in a way which would have been
:18:19. > :18:23.unthinkable midterm against a Government which is frankly flailing
:18:24. > :18:31.around on the issue of exiting the EU, which it did by mistake against
:18:32. > :18:36.its own wishes, as a Government. So, you know, we have to understand the
:18:37. > :18:41.seriousness of this and do better. Look, it was a Labour held seat, and
:18:42. > :18:45.as you say had been for a long time. A by-election with a Conservative
:18:46. > :18:51.Government in power, that is usually hugely to the opposition's advantage
:18:52. > :18:57.in a by-election. The election was fought on Jeremy Corbyn's chosen
:18:58. > :18:59.political weapon, the NHS. And yet you at that altogether and you still
:19:00. > :19:08.lost. Why? Well, I wouldn't use the word,
:19:09. > :19:12.weapon. Let us dwell for a moment on the West Cumberland Hospital. This
:19:13. > :19:19.is a community in Whitehaven which is similar to mine in Barrow and
:19:20. > :19:23.Furness, which has its hospital, has a maternity unit and accident and
:19:24. > :19:27.emergency which is seen as under threat. The alternative is to travel
:19:28. > :19:30.on very difficult road for many miles.
:19:31. > :19:33.I understand that, we have covered all that.
:19:34. > :19:41.So it was a strong case, you had a strong candidate with experience of
:19:42. > :19:51.the NHS. My point is, he still lost. Well, yes, indeed. Well... No one
:19:52. > :19:57.can ignore the issue of leadership. It would be fatuous to do so. I
:19:58. > :20:02.don't think anyone, I hope, is suggesting that it wasn't an issue
:20:03. > :20:05.on the doorstep. But I think it is important that when we are deciding
:20:06. > :20:11.as a party what we do next, that we don't simply pin this all on one,
:20:12. > :20:16.this is not about the competence or capabilities of one individual at
:20:17. > :20:19.the top. This is about the direction of the party, and people currently
:20:20. > :20:24.do not think that the direction we have set is making us a credible
:20:25. > :20:27.opposition at what is such a fundamentally important time for the
:20:28. > :20:36.future of our country. And that has to be a wake up call, or we will be
:20:37. > :20:39.suffering possibly an existential white out at the next general
:20:40. > :20:43.election. John MacDonald, the Shadow
:20:44. > :20:48.Chancellor, confident of Jeremy Corbyn. He says is people like you
:20:49. > :20:54.who are to blame for this. And Tony Blair. And Peter Mandelson. They
:20:55. > :20:59.give all these interviews. And they make all the speeches. It puts
:21:00. > :21:03.across the impression the -- Labour is deeply divided, no-confidence in
:21:04. > :21:08.the leader. People don't like divided political parties which is
:21:09. > :21:13.why we are not doing so well. You are part of the problem rather than
:21:14. > :21:18.the solution is what he is saying. Well, I did listen to some of what
:21:19. > :21:25.Mr McDonald, our Shadow Chancellor, said this morning. I was a little
:21:26. > :21:32.puzzled by his description of Labour having been disunited of late. For
:21:33. > :21:37.all of the obviously well-publicised difficulties in the summer, what you
:21:38. > :21:44.have seen since Jeremy wants his real election leadership campaign is
:21:45. > :21:48.a real willingness by people who of course have had real misgivings, but
:21:49. > :21:55.we have all united exactly as he is calling us to do now. The issue is
:21:56. > :22:02.not unity in the party. It is direction, or lack of direction. And
:22:03. > :22:06.I really hope that John MacDonald and Jeremy and everyone else who
:22:07. > :22:12.claims that we will be able to close a polling gap by the end of the
:22:13. > :22:16.year. I say, great, to that, but it is time now rather than blaming
:22:17. > :22:24.people who left the political scene ten years ago, to set out how we
:22:25. > :22:27.will do that as a party now. Thank you for joining us.
:22:28. > :22:29.Joining us now from Newcastle is Labour's campaigns and
:22:30. > :22:46.Thank you for joining us. The daily Mirror is probably your biggest,
:22:47. > :22:50.Labour's biggest ally on Slate Street, solid Labour supporting
:22:51. > :22:55.tabloid newspaper. Its editorial today reads, the two words which
:22:56. > :23:02.best described by devastated Labour humiliatingly lost the northern
:23:03. > :23:07.stronghold are Jeremy and Corbyn. What do you say?
:23:08. > :23:12.Listen, this wasn't in any way an election on the leadership of the
:23:13. > :23:19.Labour Party but a by-election in Copeland on the coast will stop and
:23:20. > :23:26.the two main issues in Copeland where the NHS, and, indeed, the
:23:27. > :23:31.nuclear industry. It wasn't a ballot or indication on whether Jeremy
:23:32. > :23:35.Corbyn should or should not be the leader of the Labour Party. Jeremy
:23:36. > :23:39.Corbyn is a leader of one of the biggest is not the biggest political
:23:40. > :23:43.parties in Europe, we have got nearly 600,000 members.
:23:44. > :23:49.What is the point of having all these members if you cannot win a
:23:50. > :23:53.by-election in ACTU have held since 1935?
:23:54. > :23:56.We have held it since 1934. Let me tell you I am absolutely
:23:57. > :24:01.disappointed to say the least with the result in Copeland last night. I
:24:02. > :24:05.will be knocking on the doors in Copeland. I have had some positive
:24:06. > :24:11.and negative responses. I have been speaking to people, they have been
:24:12. > :24:15.fabulous. It is a real problem in areas like Copeland, they feel
:24:16. > :24:18.disenfranchised from politics, they feel left behind by politicians.
:24:19. > :24:24.Jeremy Corbyn wasn't something that cropped up on the doorstop when I
:24:25. > :24:27.was visiting Copeland. It was the fact it was a distrust in
:24:28. > :24:35.politicians. So why did they vote tall green --
:24:36. > :24:38.vote Tory if they distrust politicians?
:24:39. > :24:42.We have democratic process voting for what they thought was in their
:24:43. > :24:48.best interest. They won by just over 2000 votes. That is the Democratic
:24:49. > :24:52.recess. What they do distrust is Labour and
:24:53. > :24:57.Jeremy Corbyn which is why the first time in living memory they have
:24:58. > :25:02.elected a non-Labour MP. I certainly do not share those
:25:03. > :25:12.views. I assure you that is being spewed out in the media but this is
:25:13. > :25:17.focused on why everybody should -- but we should focus on the facts
:25:18. > :25:21.Jeremy Corbyn is one of the most popular politicians in the country
:25:22. > :25:25.at this time. The issues in Copeland were about the jobs, and about the
:25:26. > :25:32.economy. People were worried about those. And
:25:33. > :25:36.it was about the NHS. Both Mr Corbyn and your candidate, a doctor and an
:25:37. > :25:41.added as driver, knows a lot about the NHS, by all accounts fought a
:25:42. > :25:45.good campaign, put the NHS at the heart of the campaign, it is meant
:25:46. > :25:48.to be the issue for you and Mr Corbyn. And you still lost, you lost
:25:49. > :25:54.big. So what went wrong? What went wrong
:25:55. > :25:56.is the fact that the people in Copeland, like many constituencies
:25:57. > :26:02.up and down the country, feel let down and left behind by the
:26:03. > :26:08.politicians in Westminster. And what people were looking for at the
:26:09. > :26:12.election, what they voted for, what they saw as secure enjoyment in the
:26:13. > :26:17.nuclear industry, a future for themselves and their children. That,
:26:18. > :26:23.in many ways, outshone the problems they have got with regards to the
:26:24. > :26:29.founding NHS in that area. When you look at it, the issue in Copeland
:26:30. > :26:34.was by and large uniquely to do with the nuclear industry. Let us say it
:26:35. > :26:40.once more, the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, did, and we were the only
:26:41. > :26:45.party prepared to underwrite the future of the new nuclear facility,
:26:46. > :26:49.and also we did say that we were desperate to ensure the nuclear
:26:50. > :26:53.industry continued in a balanced portfolio for the future for this
:26:54. > :26:58.country. We supported it. Unfortunately, the people in
:26:59. > :27:02.Copeland chose not to accept the views of the Labour Party.
:27:03. > :27:07.They didn't believe you, didn't trust you, because Jeremy Corbyn
:27:08. > :27:12.said in 2011, I say no nuclear power, not just that, decommission
:27:13. > :27:16.the stations we have got. That is what Mr Corbyn really thinks, that
:27:17. > :27:20.is what he has fought his whole life about nuclear power. They did not
:27:21. > :27:25.trust your leader on an issue which is of vital importance to the people
:27:26. > :27:27.of Copeland. It is an absolute critical
:27:28. > :27:33.importance for the people of Copeland and that is why the Labour
:27:34. > :27:37.Party gave that undertaking. The Labour Party... Theresa May was
:27:38. > :27:40.asked on her visit whether she would give an undertaking with regard to
:27:41. > :27:46.the future of nuclear. She refused to do so on numerous questions. We
:27:47. > :27:48.did, we get that undertaking as a party.
:27:49. > :27:52.They didn't believe you. It is Labour Party policy to support
:27:53. > :27:55.Trident, to support the nuclear industry.
:27:56. > :28:07.Yes, but the problem people have and it goes to the heart of
:28:08. > :28:09.Labourconundrum is you say it is Labour Party policy to support
:28:10. > :28:12.Trident, to support nuclear power generation, and everybody knows your
:28:13. > :28:15.leader does not believe in either. It is not a credible position to
:28:16. > :28:20.have policies that you stand for, and a leader who spends his whole
:28:21. > :28:23.life opposing them. And that is why the people of Copeland would not
:28:24. > :28:28.vote for your party for the first time in four generations.
:28:29. > :28:33.I'll say it again because you are continually ignoring the reality of
:28:34. > :28:41.the democratic process within the Labour Party. The conference decides
:28:42. > :28:48.policy, the conference decides the direction of the Labour Party. And
:28:49. > :28:54.the Labour Party Conference supports the nuclear industry. They agreed
:28:55. > :28:58.nuclear has a role to play in a balanced energy portfolio.
:28:59. > :29:04.But your leader... Your leader has only changed because he has had to.
:29:05. > :29:07.Your leader has always been against it, and those are his true views.
:29:08. > :29:12.Jeremy Corbyn has been consistent on many things the 35 years, why would
:29:13. > :29:15.he change his mind on this? That is why people don't trust him. In
:29:16. > :29:19.Copeland, people thought you were saying this because you wanted to
:29:20. > :29:24.get elected and they did not trust you. They didn't trust the party
:29:25. > :29:27.that they had always made their representatives in Parliament. It is
:29:28. > :29:32.a seismic change. I think it is a lot deeper than
:29:33. > :29:36.that, Andrew. As I said earlier, there's lots of problems in
:29:37. > :29:40.constituencies up and down the country where politicians and the
:29:41. > :29:45.general public seem to be disenfranchised. The real issue is
:29:46. > :29:50.jobs and the economy in these constituencies and we have got to
:29:51. > :29:54.listen, we had to decide policies for the future, look at what is
:29:55. > :29:56.happening in Copeland and Stoke, to have a clear assessment on how we go
:29:57. > :30:02.forward. Can you remember a worse by-election
:30:03. > :30:08.result the Labour than this one? To me, if you lose a by-election by
:30:09. > :30:13.one vote, it is a disaster. I am not saying anything other than that.
:30:14. > :30:16.Can you remember a worse one? I am of a firm view we should have
:30:17. > :30:21.retained Copeland. I am not trying to say anything other. We didn't. We
:30:22. > :30:28.have to learn from it and go forward. We have too tried to regain
:30:29. > :30:32.the likes of constituencies like Copeland and earned the trust of the
:30:33. > :30:37.people, ensure we have policies which are quite distinct from other
:30:38. > :30:44.parties. We don't have the divine right, no political party has, to
:30:45. > :30:47.survive. We have got to have the right policies, distinct, different,
:30:48. > :30:49.bold, imaginative, to reach the hearts of people up and down this
:30:50. > :31:04.country. A big challenge we face. You are at 27%. What is all of that
:31:05. > :31:08.rhetoric? You've got -- that's got nothing to do with it. You face an
:31:09. > :31:12.existential crisis, one of your own Labour MPs has said that, and you
:31:13. > :31:16.were going on about things like that when your poll ratings continue to
:31:17. > :31:25.die and you cannot even win the Copeland by-election! -- dive. I'm
:31:26. > :31:30.not blustering. I'm talking about the issues facing real people. But
:31:31. > :31:35.it does not sound like they are listening. The reality is that
:31:36. > :31:38.people in this country are living in despair, frightened of them are good
:31:39. > :31:45.jobs, frightened about the failed economy, they want a future which
:31:46. > :31:50.the politicians would listen to and develop in the future. That is our
:31:51. > :31:55.promise. I'm sorry if you disagree with that. It is not a matter of
:31:56. > :31:59.disagreeing it is what the people think. If they are so frightened and
:32:00. > :32:04.jobs are an issue in Coupland, no question, the NHS was an issue, they
:32:05. > :32:07.are frightened of these things. The Labour Party have tried to make this
:32:08. > :32:18.an issue but they are still not voting for you, what you do for an
:32:19. > :32:22.encore? -- Copeland. The intention of this interview is to damage the
:32:23. > :32:27.leader of the Labour Party. I'm not talking to you about Jeremy Corbyn's
:32:28. > :32:34.future. We will get in and listen to the views of the people, listen to
:32:35. > :32:39.their concerns, change their future in terms of despair to hope. We will
:32:40. > :32:42.begin to deliver what they want by listening to what they say, rather
:32:43. > :32:48.than the other way around. We have fantastic policies. We are in the
:32:49. > :32:53.process of developing some brilliant policies, which I hope will address
:32:54. > :32:57.the many needs of the very many people up and down this country. I
:32:58. > :33:01.know it's been a long night for everybody. Thank you for your time
:33:02. > :33:06.and for joining us there at the BBC in the north-east. What do you make
:33:07. > :33:12.of what you have heard? I thought that was crucifixion. Pour him, that
:33:13. > :33:22.was hard. Of course he is wrong, this is about Corbyn. For all the
:33:23. > :33:34.blustering and, you know, the last-minute U-turns, Jeremy Corbyn
:33:35. > :33:43.is an unreconstructed, antinuclear, anti-EU, anti-everything, kind of
:33:44. > :33:47.man. And the people have spoken. They don't trust. They don't think
:33:48. > :33:54.he wants to be a leader. They don't see him as a leader. There was a
:33:55. > :33:59.problem in Copeland because the nuclear issue. But what they think
:34:00. > :34:05.is broadly in line with the rest of the UK. It is not just a Copeland
:34:06. > :34:11.issue, or a Jeremy Corbyn issue, either. Social Democratic parties
:34:12. > :34:17.across Europe, including the Democrat in the US, most of them are
:34:18. > :34:21.in trouble. I thought that's right. And the interview was interesting.
:34:22. > :34:25.People in the Labour Party have learnt the lesson from last year
:34:26. > :34:29.when they went after Jeremy Corbyn. They attacked him after the
:34:30. > :34:32.referendum because they were so frustrated. They thought his
:34:33. > :34:37.leadership was dire. They had one bullet in the chamber, they fired
:34:38. > :34:40.it, Jeremy Corbyn was still leader, and they also antagonised many of
:34:41. > :34:44.the people who supported Jeremy Corbyn and thought he was brilliant,
:34:45. > :34:48.he was their choice of leader. He demonstrated that they sort of
:34:49. > :34:53.understood that. But there are still members of the Labour Party who
:34:54. > :34:57.still want the Jeremy Corbyn project to work. But also, there is not much
:34:58. > :35:00.point in removing Jeremy Corbyn if you don't address the important
:35:01. > :35:06.issue of what is a party of the Centre left do in the 21st century
:35:07. > :35:10.when all of the industrialists who have always supported the Labour
:35:11. > :35:13.Party and labour movement across party, the nature of the economy and
:35:14. > :35:19.infrastructure has changed. It isn't obvious what they call social
:35:20. > :35:31.Democratic politician looks like any more. -- what a core. There is
:35:32. > :35:35.really who is articulating that answer. But they know that the
:35:36. > :35:42.answer isn't Jeremy Corbyn. The Greek Socialist party has been
:35:43. > :35:48.pretty much wiped out. The Italian one has... Germany might have a
:35:49. > :35:52.chance. The French Socialists are about to be wiped out. The German
:35:53. > :35:56.social Democrats may have been given a new lease of life by their new
:35:57. > :36:00.candidate and Angela Merkel is on the back foot. But that seems like a
:36:01. > :36:05.change of personnel rather than a change of policy. Britain isn't
:36:06. > :36:09.alone in working out what they stand for. They are quite common problems.
:36:10. > :36:13.One of them seems to be a big gap between what became the common sort
:36:14. > :36:19.of, I hate this term, but Metropolitan, liberal steering
:36:20. > :36:22.committee of the left, and the, sort of, storm trooper basis of
:36:23. > :36:25.industrial working class which always drove the labour movement
:36:26. > :36:31.forward through trade unions. You need that coalition to form power.
:36:32. > :36:36.But culturally those two constituencies have driven further
:36:37. > :36:44.apart. Between Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn's leaderships, they
:36:45. > :36:49.have broken up completely. In Stoke Labour played the Patriot Lock card.
:36:50. > :36:58.And was is holding its nose. Because on their leaflet they had a Saint
:36:59. > :37:02.Georges flag. -- patriotic card. The industrial left on the centre-left
:37:03. > :37:04.does not stand for the patriotism which is common in the working
:37:05. > :37:22.class. Absolutely. The old working-class socialist
:37:23. > :37:28.parties in France are going to Marine Le Pen. This isn't happening
:37:29. > :37:32.as much in Germany because the antibodies and inoculation between
:37:33. > :37:37.nationalism and Germany is so much stronger. Of course. Well, that's
:37:38. > :37:47.labour, let's turn to Ukip. We did ask for an interview from one of
:37:48. > :37:50.them spokes people -- we did ask an interview from one of their
:37:51. > :37:50.spokespeople but they did not want to.
:37:51. > :37:53.The former Ukip leader Diane James is with us now.
:37:54. > :37:55.She was in charge for 18 days last autumn before
:37:56. > :38:05.Because of Copeland label was a loser last night. It did win Stoke.
:38:06. > :38:13.Much relief there. The other big story was Ukip and Paul Nuttall.
:38:14. > :38:20.What is your question? I would like you to comment. Paul has gone
:38:21. > :38:25.through a horrible experience. He has gone through a tough learning
:38:26. > :38:29.curve. He has seen first-hand, experienced it first hand, the
:38:30. > :38:34.issues Nigel faced all the time he was trying to get into Westminster.
:38:35. > :38:41.What I don't doubt happened was that Labour was absolutely focused on
:38:42. > :38:44.assuring Ukip didn't take Stoke. I think they sacrificed Copeland as a
:38:45. > :38:50.result. In doing so they had three strands to their focus. One, they
:38:51. > :38:56.had to stop Ukip in the West Midlands. Two, they had to undermine
:38:57. > :38:59.Paul as leader of Ukip. Three, they had to undermine him personally.
:39:00. > :39:03.They have achieved all three of those. I don't believe they have
:39:04. > :39:09.undermined him fatally. I don't expect Paul to resign. I don't want
:39:10. > :39:16.to see that. Knives will be out for him. I don't think so. Nigel said
:39:17. > :39:24.that he had to win that. One of the biggest bankroll is said he wasn't a
:39:25. > :39:28.fan of Paul Nuttall. OK... His leadership must be under question.
:39:29. > :39:33.First, I am now an independent, I am no longer a Ukip member. To refer to
:39:34. > :39:38.your situation, giving me the possessive doesn't apply to stop
:39:39. > :39:42.Nigel made some statements. I don't think to suddenly infer from those
:39:43. > :39:47.statements that Paul should fall on his sword just because of the result
:39:48. > :39:52.that came out of Stoke. But it has been a bruising experience for him.
:39:53. > :39:57.Indeed. He was fighting on all fronts. In many cases he was his own
:39:58. > :40:02.worst enemy. And labour were out to do him. It wouldn't be surprising if
:40:03. > :40:10.he decided he did not want to go on. Possibly, but I don't think that is
:40:11. > :40:14.going to happen. Paul has stood to lead the party. He has achieved one
:40:15. > :40:20.fundamental aim. He has unified the party. By this experience he has
:40:21. > :40:24.identified that this has come at a cost. Maybe there will be casualties
:40:25. > :40:28.in terms of the team he has around him, who you will be reviewing this
:40:29. > :40:32.result with over the weekend, over the coming days, and a side may be
:40:33. > :40:37.some new faces need to be brought in. Maybe some new approaches need
:40:38. > :40:41.to come in. The good thing, from my point of view, as an observer, an
:40:42. > :40:45.independent observer, is he's gone through a tough call. He hasn't
:40:46. > :40:51.achieved his aim. But he has learnt a lot. And so has the party. As an
:40:52. > :40:56.independent, I emphasise, they will go forward with this. Except even in
:40:57. > :41:01.the good times Ukip has had the ability to rip itself to pieces. Now
:41:02. > :41:07.that it is going through some bad times, that propensity to rip itself
:41:08. > :41:09.to pieces must surely be enhanced. I don't think it goes anywhere near to
:41:10. > :41:19.what the Labour Party is doing. Labour hasn't gone through the
:41:20. > :41:24.number of leaders you have. I'll go back to my point. Paul, in the last
:41:25. > :41:27.few months, has brought the party together. We haven't heard the
:41:28. > :41:33.narrative. The media tried to portray that the party wasn't
:41:34. > :41:35.unified, that people were smiting, stabbing each other in the back, I
:41:36. > :41:41.think he's done a good job there. What he is now seeing. He will learn
:41:42. > :41:45.from this experience. Where does he need to move on the chessboard the
:41:46. > :41:50.people around him so this doesn't happen again. Let's put this into
:41:51. > :41:55.perspective. Even I understand the comment he made. This was 72nd on
:41:56. > :42:02.the list of targets. The risk he took was high risk. Why did he
:42:03. > :42:06.stand, then? He must be ruing the day, thinking that was a misguided
:42:07. > :42:12.risk. But that is the benefit of hindsight, Andrew. It was possible
:42:13. > :42:16.to win. Given the high Brexit vote within the constituency. Given,
:42:17. > :42:28.although there had been problems with the Labour candidate, he was a
:42:29. > :42:36.Remain politician and his tweets were embarrassing. One of the
:42:37. > :42:40.reasons Paul was elected, he had to win over working-class voters
:42:41. > :42:43.disillusioned with Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit voters, and he had to get
:42:44. > :42:49.Tories to vote tactically to put labour out. Neither happened. It was
:42:50. > :42:57.a total strategic failure. I'm not going to agree that it was a total
:42:58. > :43:02.strategic failure. It wasn't a good outcome. I'm going to sit here and
:43:03. > :43:06.appreciate that point honestly. Let's go back to some clear markers.
:43:07. > :43:11.Just as you just put some down. Labour through the book at Stoke. It
:43:12. > :43:16.was strategically so pivotal to them they had to keep it. But that is
:43:17. > :43:21.what happens at by-elections. Paul made mistakes. Politicians do that.
:43:22. > :43:25.When it came down to it, the tactical voting you just explained
:43:26. > :43:29.did not happen. You can put into context that some of the issues
:43:30. > :43:32.surrounding Paul's campaign contributed to that. I've heard
:43:33. > :43:37.comments that Hillsborough was being raised on the doorsteps. But going
:43:38. > :43:42.forward, all of that is now in the public domain, Paul has time to
:43:43. > :43:49.recoup, reenergise himself. Has he? I believe so. It is my instinct that
:43:50. > :43:58.this weekend knives will be out for him. The Sunday papers, in
:43:59. > :44:08.particular, what do you think,? What Ukip have consistency lacked --
:44:09. > :44:13.consistently lack is a message. Nigel Farage could get some support
:44:14. > :44:17.but could not win a seat. Labour have the rusty machine. But when
:44:18. > :44:24.they start it up it does get people out. It is a practical problem for
:44:25. > :44:28.Ukip. But it points to the question, what is the purpose of this party
:44:29. > :44:31.now that Theresa May has given people who have voted for them in
:44:32. > :44:35.the past exactly what they want? Absolutely right. What Theresa May
:44:36. > :44:40.has done with her heart Brexit, she has moved her tanks into Paul
:44:41. > :44:50.Michael's garden, yard, whatever you want, the territory. -- into Paul
:44:51. > :44:55.Nuttall's. I don't think the Prime Minister has made her position clear
:44:56. > :44:58.on whether it is a hard or soft Brexit at all. I think it needs to
:44:59. > :45:04.be a clean Brexit. You could interpret that as hard. She hasn't,
:45:05. > :45:09.Angie. If we have the detail that would signify either soft or hard,
:45:10. > :45:17.the movements and criticism won't be going on. -- Andrew. What hasn't she
:45:18. > :45:24.told you that you want to know? I have no idea what her position is on
:45:25. > :45:32.the ECJ. She has made it clear that if she gets her way we will not be
:45:33. > :45:36.under the jurisdiction of it. She hasn't. She has given us a topline
:45:37. > :45:40.comment. She hasn't given us the detail. We still don't know what
:45:41. > :45:44.will happen with freedom of movement of people, services and goods. We
:45:45. > :45:49.don't know what will happen to European citizens here. She is in a
:45:50. > :45:54.bargaining situation led by the EU in terms of... You are dancing on
:45:55. > :46:02.the head of a pin on this. I'm not. Even staunch Tory Eurosceptics
:46:03. > :46:09.disagree... You have illustrated what Ukip's real problem is right
:46:10. > :46:15.now. Because it is clear that Tory inclined Ukip voters, those who were
:46:16. > :46:19.Tories and have now moved to Ukip, they are pretty much back in the
:46:20. > :46:25.Tory fold now. They have confidence in Theresa May. Ukip cannot attract
:46:26. > :46:26.those Labour voters they were hoping to get. You're not getting votes
:46:27. > :46:42.from the Tories or Labour. I can't comment on Ukip strategy.
:46:43. > :46:46.What I have seen happen in the last few weeks is two clear by elections.
:46:47. > :46:51.Labour absolutely focused on taking out Paul and Ukip. The Tories gave
:46:52. > :46:56.them a free rein, the Tories once they have destroyed Labour will then
:46:57. > :47:01.switch to Ukip. At the moment Labour is taking on that mantle.
:47:02. > :47:07.I am just seeing pictures of the Prime Minister who has arrived in
:47:08. > :47:11.Copeland, and the Conservative candidate, now the new Members of
:47:12. > :47:17.Parliament for Copeland is standing beside her on the left of the
:47:18. > :47:19.screen. Let us hear what she is saying.
:47:20. > :47:24.The Conservative Party will deliver the people across the whole country,
:47:25. > :47:31.a country that works for everyone, not just the privileged fruit, and
:47:32. > :47:35.Trudy will be a fantastic MP, delivering for the people of
:47:36. > :47:38.Copeland -- not just the privileged few.
:47:39. > :47:40.A wonderful victory. Please, I am sure you have something to say to
:47:41. > :47:50.people. CHEERING Well, I would really like
:47:51. > :47:57.to take this opportunity to thank the people of Copeland the voting
:47:58. > :48:02.for me, having faith in and also for the volunteers who have travelled to
:48:03. > :48:05.help us when this historic election. I am ruling looking forward to
:48:06. > :48:09.getting on with the job and very much looking forward to going down
:48:10. > :48:16.to London on Monday and making sure we deliver on the plan I have been
:48:17. > :48:23.pledging for the last four weeks. Thank you very much, Copeland.
:48:24. > :48:27.CHEERING There we go, Trudy Harrison, the new member of
:48:28. > :48:32.Parliament, Conservative Members of Parliament for Copeland, with the
:48:33. > :48:44.Prime Minister who has gone up to bathe in the glory of her victory.
:48:45. > :48:50.Apparently she went to bed and was awoken by a text that the
:48:51. > :48:56.Conservatives had one Copeland. She was so excited by her standards,
:48:57. > :49:02.that she woke her husband. I am sure she was, he was very grateful.
:49:03. > :49:06.That was a real display of expression.
:49:07. > :49:09.Next week voters in Northern Ireland return to the polls for the second
:49:10. > :49:14.The snap election was triggered when Sinn Fein announced it would no
:49:15. > :49:16.longer work with the DUP in the power-sharing executive,
:49:17. > :49:18.following a scandal involving subsidies for renewable energy.
:49:19. > :49:38.Like all good scandals, it's got several catchy names.
:49:39. > :49:53.The idea was to increase Northern Ireland's consumption
:49:54. > :49:56.But it ended up meaning businesses like, say,
:49:57. > :50:02.this Ferrari dealership on the outskirts of Belfast,
:50:03. > :50:04.It has landed the taxpayer with an unexpected bill
:50:05. > :50:05.Oh, and it brought down the Government.
:50:06. > :50:08.Also, it seems, watchers of Stormont see the scandal more
:50:09. > :50:12.This isn't just about a heating scandal, there is much to it.
:50:13. > :50:14.The RHI scandal, the renewable heat incentive, is a political
:50:15. > :50:16.opportunity, a smokescreen for larger issues
:50:17. > :50:19.Things like the Irish Language Act, the broader equality context.
:50:20. > :50:22.And trying to make sure their supporters don't feel the DUP
:50:23. > :50:27.This is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to redress that.
:50:28. > :50:28.The Northern Ireland Assembly was established
:50:29. > :50:30.following a referendum on the Good Friday
:50:31. > :50:37.Sinn Fein were part of power-sharing from the start.
:50:38. > :50:47.As a result, the DUP refused to take part,
:50:48. > :50:49.accusing the British Government and the unionists of
:50:50. > :50:51.Nevertheless, the executive operated for several years.
:50:52. > :50:54.But stumbled repeatedly over how to deal with the past.
:50:55. > :50:56.After four years' suspension and direct rule from Westminster,
:50:57. > :50:59.the St Andrew's Agreement in 2006 set out a timetable
:51:00. > :51:08.I affirm the terms of the pledge of office.
:51:09. > :51:14.With power shared by the largest parties, the polar opposites
:51:15. > :51:22.If your definition of working is, does it keep
:51:23. > :51:34.Does it work in the sense of frequently passing legislation
:51:35. > :51:43.that has a profound impact on the lives Northern
:51:44. > :51:46.Probably not, because not an awful lot gets done.
:51:47. > :51:50.It divides on the one side the Protestant Shankhill area
:51:51. > :51:52.and on the other side the Catholic Falls community.
:51:53. > :51:55.Now, those two communities are still largely separate,
:51:56. > :52:05.But, while divisions here are not as stark
:52:06. > :52:09.or as violent as they used to be, it's also unlikely many voters
:52:10. > :52:12.will change their allegiances in the next election.
:52:13. > :52:14.Do you think anything will change after the election?
:52:15. > :52:16.No, probably not, just the same people.
:52:17. > :52:32.It needs somebody to work it all out.
:52:33. > :52:36.I don't think this will do any good, I don't think it will change.
:52:37. > :52:38.They will fight about something else.
:52:39. > :52:51.This will be the second election they get to vote in,
:52:52. > :52:53.Not exactly a sign of healthy politics but it could be a good
:52:54. > :52:54.Something massive happens and then we take a step forward.
:52:55. > :52:55.Something sounds quite bad, so we have a scandal,
:52:56. > :53:01.We have another agreement around a set of issues.
:53:02. > :53:03.Legacy issues have been rumbling on for years.
:53:04. > :53:06.They've nearly been agreed two, three times.
:53:07. > :53:10.This perhaps is the opportunity to actually make that happen.
:53:11. > :53:13.After the election, the main parties have three weeks to form
:53:14. > :53:15.a power-sharing government and agree a way forward.
:53:16. > :53:17.If they don't, there could be another election or a period
:53:18. > :53:20.So, the stakes are high, when Northern Ireland goes
:53:21. > :53:33.And we've been joined from Belfast by our Northern Ireland political
:53:34. > :53:43.Is there not a danger that the people of Northern Ireland go to the
:53:44. > :53:49.polls and they end up producing roughly the same result as before
:53:50. > :53:52.they went to the polls, and doesn't resolve anything?
:53:53. > :53:56.How will that work out? It is entirely possible we might
:53:57. > :54:01.have a similar balance of power at Stormont after these elections as
:54:02. > :54:05.before. It seems quite a long way to go for the opposition parties on
:54:06. > :54:10.either side of the divide here, the Ulster Unionists or the SDLP, to
:54:11. > :54:14.overtake either the DUP or Sinn Fein. There might be a little bit of
:54:15. > :54:17.change in terms of the balance of power in as much as the DUP might
:54:18. > :54:29.lose its ability to veto anything it doesn't
:54:30. > :54:32.like. But it seems a long shot for any
:54:33. > :54:35.kind of a wholesale change to the system here. That means we could
:54:36. > :54:37.have some difficult talks on the other side of this election. Once
:54:38. > :54:40.the election is out of the way, we know the results, the new members
:54:41. > :54:42.take their seats, the process is they then sit down again to try and
:54:43. > :54:47.recreate a power-sharing Government, that is how it works?
:54:48. > :54:51.That is right. We have a three-week timetable after this election the
:54:52. > :54:56.them to once again vote in a first and Deputy First Minister which they
:54:57. > :54:59.need to, to get devolution up and running properly here.
:55:00. > :55:03.Most people are sceptical as to whether they can do that because
:55:04. > :55:07.Sinn Fein has specified in particular that the DUP leader
:55:08. > :55:17.Arlene Foster at the centre of this storm over the so-called renewable
:55:18. > :55:19.heat scandal, they don't want to share power with her until an
:55:20. > :55:22.inquiring which will take at least six months has concluded into this.
:55:23. > :55:25.That means it is really hard to imagine they will be able to piece
:55:26. > :55:28.it together in three weeks which is why there is a lot of expectation we
:55:29. > :55:30.may end up having a period of direct rule with Westminster appointing
:55:31. > :55:34.ministers running day-to-day affairs here.
:55:35. > :55:38.I got the impression from the report, I may be wrong, tell me,
:55:39. > :55:44.that the people in Northern Ireland haven't got much enthusiasm for this
:55:45. > :55:46.election, is that right or is it unfair?
:55:47. > :55:49.I certainly think they did get interested in the renewable heat
:55:50. > :55:58.scandal because when that was explained in the autumn to them,
:55:59. > :56:03.everybody immediately added it up in relation to that. So there was a lot
:56:04. > :56:07.of interest in that. It is an uncertain question whether we will
:56:08. > :56:14.have turnout going down because the voters, 1.2 million of them, will
:56:15. > :56:17.say, a plague on their houses, or whether the anger particularly over
:56:18. > :56:20.the renewable heat scandal will manifest itself in an increased
:56:21. > :56:27.turnout. Thank you for being with us today.
:56:28. > :56:34.We have had a statement from Nigel Farage to the result instead, he
:56:35. > :56:38.says the party message on immigration wasn't strong enough in
:56:39. > :56:41.Stoke which I guess is an interdict attack on Paul Nuttall. He says the
:56:42. > :56:47.campaign wasn't targeted as well as it could have been or tough enough
:56:48. > :56:53.with immigration policy. He said the Ukip current leader, the party
:56:54. > :56:57.candidates, in Stoke had a tough time and finished in a tough
:56:58. > :57:01.position. But he says he will get through it. He says Mr Knott also
:57:02. > :57:07.has his full support and was the right person to lead Ukip. -- Says
:57:08. > :57:10.Paul Nuttall still has his full support.
:57:11. > :57:15.He also says people currently trust Theresa May on Brexit. A little
:57:16. > :57:22.different from what Diane James was saying.
:57:23. > :57:26.Nigel Farage was speaking from Washington, not in the north-east of
:57:27. > :57:30.England, but another Washington. Washington, DC.
:57:31. > :57:33.Time now for our look back at the political week -
:57:34. > :57:38.The PM swept into Parliament on Monday, but she wasn't heading
:57:39. > :57:45.Theresa May perched on the steps of the throne to listen to peers
:57:46. > :57:47.debating the bill to withdraw from the EU.
:57:48. > :57:49.Later, protesters gathered outside Parliament to demonstrate
:57:50. > :57:55.Inside, MPs debated the petition calling for his state
:57:56. > :58:03.We are seven days into his presidency.
:58:04. > :58:06.He is invited to have the full panoply of a state visit.
:58:07. > :58:09.On Tuesday, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said
:58:10. > :58:16.the UK would face a very hefty bill for leaving the EU.
:58:17. > :58:22.The talking point at Prime Minister's Questions wasn't
:58:23. > :58:25.the May-Corbyn exchanges, but the peformance by Labour's
:58:26. > :58:30.And finally, Copeland went Tory after more than 80 years in the red.
:58:31. > :58:33.But Labour held on to Stoke Central, seeing off a challenge from the Ukip
:58:34. > :58:48.Thanks to Cristina, Rafael and all my guests.
:58:49. > :58:51.The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:52. > :58:53.I'll be back on Sunday with the Sunday Politics
:58:54. > :59:07.Donald Trump's first 100 days in the White House
:59:08. > :59:10.are defining how he'll deal with the rest of the world.
:59:11. > :59:15.the UK is stepping up the formal business of Brexit.
:59:16. > :59:17.As the new President strives to deliver
:59:18. > :59:19.on his promise to put America first...
:59:20. > :59:22...Prime Minister Theresa May is setting out