:00:37. > :00:44.It was all smiles yesterday, but it turned out that the Chancellor's
:00:45. > :00:49.Budget Box contained a broken manifesto promise.
:00:50. > :00:50.Conservative backbenchers aren't happy about his increases
:00:51. > :00:55.to national insurance for the self employed.
:00:56. > :01:01.Will he be forced into a U-turn on his first Budget?
:01:02. > :01:04.There was ?2 billion for social care over three years
:01:05. > :01:06.but is it too little, too late and do we really
:01:07. > :01:08.need yet another review of social care funding?
:01:09. > :01:14.A Referendum on Independence in the autumn of 2018
:01:15. > :01:19.would be "common sense", according to Nicola Sturgeon.
:01:20. > :01:22.Has Brexit made another poll in Scotland inevitable?
:01:23. > :01:24.And at the Daily Politics we realise that politics
:01:25. > :01:40.And with us for the duration, fund manager, gender equality
:01:41. > :01:41.campaigner and all-round super-woman, Helena Morrissey.
:01:42. > :02:02.You just have to live up to that build-up now.
:02:03. > :02:04.First this morning, it was a smaller budget than normal
:02:05. > :02:07.- just 28 measures - but it's just one of
:02:08. > :02:08.them that's dominating the headlines this morning.
:02:09. > :02:10.That's the increases in National Insurance
:02:11. > :02:12.Here's the crucial annoucement from yesterday's Budget.
:02:13. > :02:16.To improve the fairness of the tax system, I will act to reduce the gap
:02:17. > :02:18.to better reflect current differences in state benefits.
:02:19. > :02:19.I have considered, Mr Deputy Speaker,
:02:20. > :02:22.the possibility of simply reversing the decision to abolish Class 2
:02:23. > :02:25.But the Class 2 Nic is regressive and outdated.
:02:26. > :02:30.Instead, from April 2018, when the Class 2 Nic is abolished,
:02:31. > :02:35.the main rate of class 4 Nics for the self-employed
:02:36. > :02:37.will increase by 1% to 10%, with a further 1%
:02:38. > :02:59.It is all very complicated. The key political point is
:03:00. > :03:02.that increase in national insurance has broken a pledge that appeared
:03:03. > :03:08.This is page 7 of the Conservative manifesto, as you can see
:03:09. > :03:20.This is what the papers thought of that.
:03:21. > :03:23.The Sun has the headline "spite van man" and says the Chancellor
:03:24. > :03:27."sparked a national wave of fury by unleashing a ?240-a-year
:03:28. > :03:34.tax raid on Britain's self-employed strivers".
:03:35. > :03:37.The Daily Mirror pictures Theresa May howling with laughter
:03:38. > :03:39.at one of Philip Hammond's quips, and asks: "What's
:03:40. > :03:44.The paper dubs it "the betrayal Budget".
:03:45. > :03:47."No laughing matter," declares the Daily Mail and says
:03:48. > :03:50.the Chancellor littered his Budget with jokes but broke an election
:03:51. > :03:56.pledge by "hammering" the self-employed and savers.
:03:57. > :03:57.The Times headline says the Chancellor launched
:03:58. > :04:02.a "?2 billion tax raid" on self-employed workers to provide
:04:03. > :04:09."Tories break tax vow" is how the Daily Telegraph puts it,
:04:10. > :04:16.accusing Philip Hammond of breaking a key Conservative manifesto pledge.
:04:17. > :04:20.And "Hammond falls into tax trap" is the Guardian's headline,
:04:21. > :04:23.saying the Chancellor's attempt at a low-key package of measures
:04:24. > :04:30.threatens to be overshadowed by the National Insurance row.
:04:31. > :04:33.The Government's said it's sticking to its commitment not to increase
:04:34. > :04:39.the main rate of national insurance for employed people and it's
:04:40. > :04:50.There are actually four types of National Insurance
:04:51. > :04:56.Class 1 is for people who are employed - that's
:04:57. > :05:02.They pay 12% on earnings above ?155 a week and 2%
:05:03. > :05:10.After the 2015 general election, the Government passed a law banning
:05:11. > :05:12.increases in this particular type of National
:05:13. > :05:16.Class 2 Nics are for self-employed with low earnings
:05:17. > :05:21.but they're being abolished in April 2018.
:05:22. > :05:24.Class 3 NICs are voluntary contributions that some employed
:05:25. > :05:27.and self-employed people can choose to pay, in order to boost
:05:28. > :05:33.Class 4 Nics are paid by people who are self-employed
:05:34. > :05:41.The rate is currently 9% on earnings above ?8,060 and then 2%
:05:42. > :05:47.In the Budget yesterday, Philip Hammond announced
:05:48. > :05:50.that the core 9% rate of Class 4 National Insurance Contributions
:05:51. > :06:00.will go up to 10% in April 2018 and then 11% in April 2019.
:06:01. > :06:03.Because of those changes to both Class 2 and Class 4 Nics,
:06:04. > :06:10.1.6 million people will pay ?240 more every year on average.
:06:11. > :06:12.And that will eventually mean ?145 million going into
:06:13. > :06:19.But that figure could go up in the future if more people become
:06:20. > :06:23.Well, this morning the Chancellor toured the TV and radio stations,
:06:24. > :06:28.defending his national insurance policy.
:06:29. > :06:32.There was a broad commitment to lock taxes so that there will be no tax
:06:33. > :06:35.increases, and that's what we have done, because the Chancellor now,
:06:36. > :06:39.I'm working within an extremely constrained environment where we
:06:40. > :06:41.face some new challenges in this country.
:06:42. > :06:44.But that's the argument you could make, couldn't you?
:06:45. > :06:46.You could basically say, yes, we've changed our policy because
:06:47. > :06:52.We face some new challenges which we have to rise to.
:06:53. > :06:55.I'm doing that within a very constrained environment where
:06:56. > :07:01.most taxes cannot be raised and much of our spending is also ringfenced
:07:02. > :07:07.And we're joined now from Central Lobby by
:07:08. > :07:14.the Conservative MP, Anne Marie Trevelyan.
:07:15. > :07:21.-- Dominik Rab and the shadow Treasury minister. The Conservative
:07:22. > :07:26.manifesto said four times he would not raise national insurance
:07:27. > :07:29.contributions. You have raised them and broken your promise will stop
:07:30. > :07:32.this was a solid and responsible budget. With any budget committee
:07:33. > :07:38.want to pay for things you want to do like social care and take the
:07:39. > :07:43.edge of business rates, you must pay for them somehow. And that is by
:07:44. > :07:47.breaking your promise? Budgets are a package it is easy to run for the
:07:48. > :07:52.hills when there is one bit you do not like. I do not like this bit
:07:53. > :07:55.much. The truth is, both on the substance of the policy and to make
:07:56. > :08:00.sure we square with what we have said, and you can read out as many
:08:01. > :08:06.bits of the manifesto as you like. There are different types of Nics.
:08:07. > :08:09.We will have a separate piece of national insurance legislation. The
:08:10. > :08:13.need to make sure we are not hurting the entrepreneurial classes, to make
:08:14. > :08:18.sure we live by, not just the letter but the spirit of our commitments.
:08:19. > :08:23.It would mean this promise is not worth the paper it is written on. If
:08:24. > :08:28.you are self-employed, and you have voted Conservative on the basis of
:08:29. > :08:35.your four promises in the 2015 manifesto, you were sold a false
:08:36. > :08:39.prospectus. You have picked out selective bits of the manifesto. We
:08:40. > :08:44.were asked about this at length. I agree with you that we need to
:08:45. > :08:51.square what we are doing with not just the letter but also the spirit
:08:52. > :09:04.of the commitments. I do not agree with that. Just address this. David
:09:05. > :09:08.Cameron tweeted during the 20 15th election campaign when people were
:09:09. > :09:13.making up their minds, you said, Labour needs to raise national
:09:14. > :09:15.insurance to make their sums add up. Hard-working people will end up
:09:16. > :09:25.paying for is that you have had to raise them and hard-working people
:09:26. > :09:30.will pay. That was said in the context of Ed Miliband talking about
:09:31. > :09:35.the National Insurance employer 's contribution, which we said would be
:09:36. > :09:42.a jobs tax. I'm not going to argue that this will be the one thorny
:09:43. > :09:48.issue in the Budget. It is fine for journalist pick a hole in something.
:09:49. > :09:51.It is a package. You made the promise four times. There was no
:09:52. > :09:57.mention, when you put the legislation through. The Government
:09:58. > :10:03.has said it concentrated on class one. It did not cover the ones you
:10:04. > :10:06.put up yesterday. The minister in the House of Lords at the time,
:10:07. > :10:11.cheated the registration through the Lords will she did not even know
:10:12. > :10:15.this is what was being planned. She said she would never have expected
:10:16. > :10:20.us to do this or that we said in good faith we would not raise
:10:21. > :10:24.national insurance rates. That is the woman that took your legislation
:10:25. > :10:27.through. We have all types of national insurance contributions and
:10:28. > :10:32.rates. There is a query about whether we are living up to both the
:10:33. > :10:35.spirit, as opposed to just the letter, of the commitment. We do
:10:36. > :10:41.have national insurance legislation which is separate from the Budget
:10:42. > :10:45.which is an opportunity to look at this from the round. We do not want
:10:46. > :10:50.to penalised the entrepreneurial classes. We must deal with the
:10:51. > :10:54.nuances which was said around the time of the election. The advantage
:10:55. > :10:58.with that being stand-alone legislation is we must look at this
:10:59. > :11:04.properly and keep our promises. The truth about this Budget, you can
:11:05. > :11:10.pick a hole in it. I understand that is your job. If you compare the
:11:11. > :11:14.package we put forward, both to cut taxes for basic rate taxpayers, will
:11:15. > :11:18.be saving the average taxpayer ?1000 year to the income tax allowance, to
:11:19. > :11:21.the extra money will put into social care, if you want to do that
:11:22. > :11:33.responsibly you must come up with a package. Jeremy Corbyn was talking
:11:34. > :11:37.about windmills yesterday. One of the choices is not to break your
:11:38. > :11:42.words to the British people. I am looking at whether we can trust a
:11:43. > :11:47.Tory manifesto and the paper it is written on. That is what journalists
:11:48. > :11:55.should do. If you want to pay for the things that Tory MPs say, we
:11:56. > :11:59.have to put into business rates and schools you can only do if you face
:12:00. > :12:06.up to the difficult decisions. The Labour Party is totally incapable of
:12:07. > :12:09.that. Jonathan, when the Government turn this manifesto promise into
:12:10. > :12:14.legislation, why didn't Labour check what national insurance
:12:15. > :12:18.contributions it was going to cover? This is a straightforward commitment
:12:19. > :12:21.in the manifesto and parliament from the Conservatives. Of course they
:12:22. > :12:28.have broken their commitment. We allow them to legislate. Why didn't
:12:29. > :12:34.you track? Everyone believed they were generally ruling out a raise.
:12:35. > :12:37.Isn't it your job, as the official opposition, to check the Government
:12:38. > :12:40.is living up to its promises and make sure that a promise which
:12:41. > :12:46.seemed to come up or national insurance contributions, all classes
:12:47. > :12:53.of them, was actually the case rather than being selective? The
:12:54. > :12:59.Government has clearly broken its manifesto pledge. There is no
:13:00. > :13:03.Conservative MP who believed their promise or national insurance
:13:04. > :13:09.related to social national insurance plans. Everyone believed they were
:13:10. > :13:18.promising to freeze this. It focused on one type of Nics. You failed to
:13:19. > :13:22.hold the Government to account on the other classes of Nics. They made
:13:23. > :13:26.a clear commitment that the issue here is not just about the manifesto
:13:27. > :13:30.commitment. It is about the fact the premise of Chancellor gave for this
:13:31. > :13:35.change is not correct. Self-employed people to not have the same rights
:13:36. > :13:40.as the employed. They do not have access to sick pay or maternity pay.
:13:41. > :13:43.What is really extraordinary, when you look at the one thing,
:13:44. > :13:49.Conservative MPs will rightly praise their record. A huge part of that
:13:50. > :13:56.has been self-employed people and now they are turning round and
:13:57. > :14:00.hammering them. I understand that. Given the immensity of the situation
:14:01. > :14:05.and what has happened, why did Jeremy Corbyn not raise it in
:14:06. > :14:12.response to the Budget yesterday? Responding to a budget is the
:14:13. > :14:16.hardest thing. This is a broken manifesto pledge. Where you in the
:14:17. > :14:20.chamber yesterday questioned that you will know it was buzzing around
:14:21. > :14:25.the House, particularly on the Tory side when they realised what was
:14:26. > :14:28.being done. Yet, the Leader of the Opposition in a pledge given four
:14:29. > :14:34.times could not even manage to raise it in his response. He did mention
:14:35. > :14:38.the impact on self-employed people. He did not mention that it was a
:14:39. > :14:40.broken promise. The chamber was buzzing when the enormity of what
:14:41. > :14:47.they had done came through and people realised. Again, the
:14:48. > :14:52.opposition missing an edge. We made a decision to oppose this. Even as
:14:53. > :14:56.Jeremy had just about done, just about as quick as you could do so
:14:57. > :15:00.does you do not get the documents in opposition until the transfer has
:15:01. > :15:03.sat down. Everybody knew what happened. The press knew what
:15:04. > :15:10.happened. We needed the Redbook. When you look at the cuts in tax,
:15:11. > :15:15.you can clearly see this is not a large amount of money being raised.
:15:16. > :15:19.It was a wrong decision. Stick with us for the moment. We're going to
:15:20. > :15:23.talk to one Conservative MP who is very happy about it. While I was
:15:24. > :15:27.reading all those figures and the different types of national
:15:28. > :15:39.insurance contributions. When I talked about class 4 Nics, it is
:15:40. > :15:43.people earning that a year and not a week. Where you surprised by the
:15:44. > :15:57.announcements from Philip Hammond on Nics?
:15:58. > :16:07.I think on this issue, we need a U-turn quickly. How is that going to
:16:08. > :16:10.happen? I believe as the others have said, the National instruments
:16:11. > :16:14.contribution changes will be brought forward in a separate bill and we
:16:15. > :16:19.need to change that. We need to keep the pressure up so people understand
:16:20. > :16:23.this change is not acceptable. This change affects ordinary working
:16:24. > :16:27.families who have taken the risk of setting up small business and many a
:16:28. > :16:34.ploy apprentices, the backbone of our economy, and it makes us feel we
:16:35. > :16:38.have broken our promise, it is not acceptable and cannot proceed. What
:16:39. > :16:41.impact will it have on people thinking about starting their
:16:42. > :16:46.business or setting up self-employed? It will not have much
:16:47. > :16:49.impact in terms of people thinking of setting up their business because
:16:50. > :16:54.they are entrepreneurs and there has been a huge rise in the
:16:55. > :16:58.self-employed who want to take that risk, it shows the wrong message and
:16:59. > :17:02.says we are not providing you with every possible opportunity to make
:17:03. > :17:06.it easy. The Government has a great record of employment over seven
:17:07. > :17:11.years and making it easier for people to set up business and take
:17:12. > :17:16.risks. This type of change is very complicated and people do not like
:17:17. > :17:22.complicated issues and it sends the wrong message. In terms of revenue,
:17:23. > :17:26.it raises money and my local public organisations waste more than that
:17:27. > :17:32.over the next 12 months. It does not race a lot of money and the
:17:33. > :17:35.Chancellor in his defence said it is a matter of fairness that this had
:17:36. > :17:40.to be seen in terms of trying to equalise the tax paid by an employee
:17:41. > :17:47.to nurse and an agency nurse. What you say to that? I do understand the
:17:48. > :17:50.element about fairness and I campaign for fairness, but there are
:17:51. > :17:54.two microwaves, one is to raise a tax level which I do not think is
:17:55. > :17:59.fair and the other is to reduce tax levels. As a Conservative MP, I
:18:00. > :18:04.prefer lower taxes with reformed public services and more money
:18:05. > :18:08.delivering services people want to help ordinary working families. I am
:18:09. > :18:12.using the phrase fairness to get round this, what is fair is giving
:18:13. > :18:17.people everybody opportunity to get on in life. Are you embarrassed by
:18:18. > :18:21.this when you have to face your constituents, some of them unhappy
:18:22. > :18:27.about this? I am not embarrassed in the sense of this is politics and
:18:28. > :18:33.people's lives. You said it is a broken promise. We have got to go
:18:34. > :18:36.out and fix it, it is not a broken promise yet and we have to ensure
:18:37. > :18:40.this does not go through and I will be working with people to deliver
:18:41. > :18:45.that. These changes go into a separate bill is not part of the
:18:46. > :18:49.main finance bill and that happens in May and June. When you talk about
:18:50. > :18:53.pressure in the next couple of days, apart from appearing on programmes
:18:54. > :18:57.like this, how will you pressurise the Chancellor? There is no
:18:58. > :19:02.indication of change. We have back channels and we are talking in the
:19:03. > :19:08.party about the issue. No doubt people are dead if I do love all of
:19:09. > :19:11.opposition and I am sure Philip Hammond is a great Chancellor and he
:19:12. > :19:16.will look at the issue in more detail and come up with a better
:19:17. > :19:23.solution that does create change. Thank you very much.
:19:24. > :19:26.Dominick, was the indication of what you said that because there is
:19:27. > :19:32.legislation for this, do you want changes on this? The point Philip
:19:33. > :19:37.Hammond was made was the treatment of self-employed and employed needs
:19:38. > :19:41.to be equitable and I made the argument about National Insurance
:19:42. > :19:44.being consolidated with income tax. We have freestanding legislation and
:19:45. > :19:48.we can look at it in the round and be consistent with our promises and
:19:49. > :19:52.we do not penalise the entrepreneurial classes. The problem
:19:53. > :19:58.with this is that we are putting 10 million into the NHS by 2020 and an
:19:59. > :20:02.extra ?2 billion in social care. It is all very well Labour saying what
:20:03. > :20:09.they do not like, but if you ask for a credible alternative, you would
:20:10. > :20:13.not get one. You have had a good say, I want to hear from Labour.
:20:14. > :20:18.Look at the detail of the Budget and the big expenditure. It is that huge
:20:19. > :20:24.cut the corporation tax and inheritance tax. If you did not tax
:20:25. > :20:29.entrepreneurs, that might generate revenue. You can make that argument
:20:30. > :20:33.about any tax rate, it is the balance between what you are asking
:20:34. > :20:36.people to pay with this tax on self-employed people compared to
:20:37. > :20:46.your big giveaways to big organisations. Hold on. How much has
:20:47. > :20:54.corporate, corporation tax receipts fallen since it was cut? If you look
:20:55. > :20:58.at the red book. I am asking you a question, how much? The net cost is
:20:59. > :21:05.about 18 billion. Corporation tax has come down from 28, the 20%,
:21:06. > :21:09.since 2010. How much have receipts fallen? I do not have that figure, I
:21:10. > :21:13.can tell you for the next five years. That is projection, I want
:21:14. > :21:17.the real figures. I will tell you the real figures. Corporation tax
:21:18. > :21:21.receipts up from 40 billion to 50 billion, so where is the cut? The
:21:22. > :21:25.cutters into the rate and how would you know you would not have got more
:21:26. > :21:30.money? Corporation tax receipts have not fallen, can we agree? Yes, there
:21:31. > :21:36.is a cost to agreeing to reduce corporation tax. You do not know
:21:37. > :21:40.that we know about forecasts, look at the OBR forecast in November and
:21:41. > :21:45.talk to me about forecasts. What you make of this? I am a bit confused.
:21:46. > :21:49.If you want to see more activity, you want to tax it less, and less
:21:50. > :21:54.activity or use of something, you tax it more. The sugar tax makes
:21:55. > :21:58.sense. You have talked about making sure this does not affect
:21:59. > :22:03.entrepreneurs, I think it does and that slightly does not make sense. I
:22:04. > :22:07.would like to see it in the context of the vision for where we are in
:22:08. > :22:11.terms of encouraging entrepreneurs in this country, and where there has
:22:12. > :22:16.been a rise, which is great. The Chancellor gave the game away by
:22:17. > :22:21.talking about the fact he saw this as a mismatch which needs to be
:22:22. > :22:27.addressed between self-employed and NICs is a cost of ?6 billion to the
:22:28. > :22:32.Exchequer. It is not really a cost, we should turn this around and think
:22:33. > :22:36.it is revenue, people are running this, it is their money and we are
:22:37. > :22:41.trying to encourage them to earn more of which they will give some to
:22:42. > :22:45.the revenue. Corporation tax is a great example, companies have the
:22:46. > :22:50.right and they paid more revenue. That encourages them to thrive. It
:22:51. > :22:56.is not strategically make sense which is why it was for me
:22:57. > :23:02.disappointing. One Tory backbencher who sounded like he could be
:23:03. > :23:06.rebelling, said Mr Hammond in the Budget yesterday hammered three
:23:07. > :23:10.types of people who vote Tory. The self-employed, owners of small
:23:11. > :23:16.companies, and the thrifty who save for their old age. You have hit all
:23:17. > :23:23.three. Who was that? I am not telling you. You speak be terms as
:23:24. > :23:30.well. Don't throw that at me. I think it is fair enough. What is
:23:31. > :23:34.wrong with it? If people will not go on the record and stand up as I am
:23:35. > :23:38.doing for the difficult choices we make it is worth pointing out.
:23:39. > :23:41.Nobody has told me if we reverse National Insurance, which I would
:23:42. > :23:46.like to do, how we pay for it. How would you pay the money not just for
:23:47. > :23:50.cutting taxes, the personal allowance or corporation tax which
:23:51. > :23:58.we agree is positive, but also to do things for social care, the elderly
:23:59. > :24:01.and the vulnerable, to do stuff for training and new schools money? That
:24:02. > :24:06.is the business of serious and credible government. It is what
:24:07. > :24:12.Labour territory at catered. A final point. 85% of people who pay
:24:13. > :24:18.National Insurance will be unaffected. Of the 15% affected, 60%
:24:19. > :24:24.will benefit from the cuts. The lower paid benefit, 116,000 or
:24:25. > :24:32.under, you will not be affected by this. -- ?16,000. This is quite a
:24:33. > :24:36.progressive change. The big increases come from those who are
:24:37. > :24:41.self-employed, who make a lot of money, so why are you opposing a
:24:42. > :24:47.progressive tax change? I do not agree with that analysis, ?16,500
:24:48. > :24:54.earnings, that is not breaking it in. Where is the money coming from?
:24:55. > :24:58.What about the inheritance tax cut? How is it right to go ahead with
:24:59. > :25:03.that and hitting those who generate the wealth? That does not raise the
:25:04. > :25:10.10 billion extra for the NHS or the ?2 billion extra. You cannot have it
:25:11. > :25:20.both ways. The inheritance tax is ?1 billion! He did that, I did the
:25:21. > :25:22.other! Moving on, you are staying here, we are keeping you hostage. We
:25:23. > :25:29.have not finished with you that. Now, in the lead-up to yesterday's
:25:30. > :25:31.Budget, the Chancellor had been under increasing pressure to find
:25:32. > :25:33.extra cash for England's Local authorities say that more
:25:34. > :25:37.than ?4.5 billion has been cut from social care budgets since 2010,
:25:38. > :25:40.at a time when demand is surging. Yesterday, Mr Hammond responded
:25:41. > :25:42.to claims of a crisis by promising yet another review
:25:43. > :25:44.of social care funding. But he also said there
:25:45. > :25:47.would be some more money Let's have a listen
:25:48. > :25:51.to what he had to say. Today, Mr Deputy Speaker, I am
:25:52. > :25:53.committing additional grant funding of ?2 billion to social
:25:54. > :26:00.care in England under Mr Deputy Speaker, that's ?2 billion
:26:01. > :26:14.over the next three years, with ?1 billion available in '17/'18 -
:26:15. > :26:17.that will allow local authorities to act now
:26:18. > :26:20.to commission new care packages and forms a bridge to the better care
:26:21. > :26:23.funding that becomes available And I'm joined now from
:26:24. > :26:32.Central Lobby by Norman Lamb, the Lib Dems' spokesman on health,
:26:33. > :26:35.and former Health Minister under Dominic Raab and Jonathan Reynolds
:26:36. > :26:45.are still with us. First of all, Norman, do you welcome
:26:46. > :26:50.the money announced by Philip Hammond for the short-term? It is
:26:51. > :26:53.certainly better than nothing, but it is inadequate because if you
:26:54. > :26:59.think the increase in the National Minimum Wage, the so-called national
:27:00. > :27:03.living wage, costs an extra ?900 million in the coming year, this
:27:04. > :27:09.really does not go anywhere near reaching the level we need to get
:27:10. > :27:16.social care stabilised again. The health foundation, independent
:27:17. > :27:19.organisation, reckons the gap is ?2 billion. If they are right, this
:27:20. > :27:24.settlement inevitably means more older people will have care needs,
:27:25. > :27:30.who don't have those met. Who will end up inevitably, unnecessarily in
:27:31. > :27:34.hospital, increasing the burden on the NHS. It is yet another sticking
:27:35. > :27:39.plaster and my total frustration with the Government is that rather
:27:40. > :27:44.than lurching from crisis to crisis and diverting the crisis at last
:27:45. > :27:49.minute in this way, surely the time has come when we need to take a once
:27:50. > :27:55.in a generation look at the NHS care system. It was designed in the 1940s
:27:56. > :28:01.and the needs have changed so much in the period since. I put together
:28:02. > :28:06.a group of cross-party MPs, Conservative, Labour and Liberal
:28:07. > :28:10.Democrats. It was not taken on board, those recommendations. We met
:28:11. > :28:14.with the Prime Minister, she has agreed to sanction the start of a
:28:15. > :28:19.dialogue. We will soon meet with the new health adviser but I do not have
:28:20. > :28:24.enormous confidence the Government will take this approach. The money
:28:25. > :28:28.first of all, ?2 billion over three years. If you take what the councils
:28:29. > :28:32.and local government associations say, they need almost three times
:28:33. > :28:38.that, so this is a sticking plaster and it will not meet the needs
:28:39. > :28:43.councils say is necessary. It is a pretty big sticking plaster, ?2
:28:44. > :28:45.billion. I agree it is a first step and nobody thinks we have got the
:28:46. > :28:51.social care issue sorted for the long term in a sustainable way. It
:28:52. > :28:56.is very thorny. I do think it would be a good idea to forge a
:28:57. > :29:02.cross-party consensus on this, but the problem is if you are in
:29:03. > :29:05.opposition and I am not this about labour, but the temptation would be
:29:06. > :29:11.not to do the quiet and steady and sensible things of agreeing about
:29:12. > :29:18.principles, but to criticise anything and any step to be taken.
:29:19. > :29:21.What I would love to see, Norman is right, is Tim Farron genuinely
:29:22. > :29:26.reaching out to the Government and saying, let's have a coalition on
:29:27. > :29:33.that issue. Let's stick to the money. The money is important, you
:29:34. > :29:39.said a sticking plaster and not enough. You said it was a big
:29:40. > :29:42.sticking plaster. I said it was a first step. And you said it was a
:29:43. > :29:48.big sticking plaster. The figures do not add up if you are sitting in a
:29:49. > :29:54.local council and you have to deal with adult social care. ?4.6 billion
:29:55. > :30:00.has been cut from the adult social care Budget since 2010, according to
:30:01. > :30:03.those councils, white or you only giving ?2 billion? We have had a
:30:04. > :30:08.wider discussion about the difficulty raising revenue, you need
:30:09. > :30:11.to know where you cut taxes or what you cut? They are difficult
:30:12. > :30:16.decisions and we have taken a first step and it is not a question of the
:30:17. > :30:20.death tax I am not in favour of, but at what point you say you could cap
:30:21. > :30:26.costs. Whether working with the private sector, they can depend what
:30:27. > :30:29.we do, and none of this is easy stuff. So the cuts were wrong in the
:30:30. > :30:35.first place the local government spending?
:30:36. > :30:41.I'm not going to accept the figures put forward by the representatives
:30:42. > :30:47.of the Local Government Association. The Government must look at these
:30:48. > :31:00.issues in and around. Jonathan Reynolds, you have talked about more
:31:01. > :31:03.money. Where would you find it? The capital gains tax cut from last year
:31:04. > :31:09.and the bank levy. These are difficult decisions. Did a good
:31:10. > :31:12.people on the front by commissioning services, worried about the safety
:31:13. > :31:20.of adults and children and families who feel the impact of that. They
:31:21. > :31:24.can take ?4.5 billion out of the system. Jonathan Reynolds, I had
:31:25. > :31:28.just done the money. Let's have a look at your figures. We talked
:31:29. > :31:36.briefly about corporation tax. Let's have a look at the projection. If
:31:37. > :31:41.you look at the cuts, it would bring in between three 7p. How much I be
:31:42. > :31:47.put forward as a Labour Party question what we have me completely
:31:48. > :31:53.different choices. You pledged ?15 billion worth of spending pledges.
:31:54. > :31:58.Even if we take that projection of corporation tax is at its highest
:31:59. > :32:04.level of ?10 billion, you are short. Where would you find the money? It
:32:05. > :32:08.is the bank levy and the inheritance tax cut. The priority has to be the
:32:09. > :32:13.stability of public services. That is not the priority of this
:32:14. > :32:17.government by any means. Should it be a priority that money should be
:32:18. > :32:23.spent there? It should be borrowed or taxes should rise. The priority
:32:24. > :32:28.is, we need a long-term solution. One thing which is disappointing
:32:29. > :32:31.about the Budget yesterday, it is not visionary in terms of how we're
:32:32. > :32:35.going to address that priority which is one among several priorities. How
:32:36. > :32:40.does it all stuck up over the next decade or to macro, not just the
:32:41. > :32:45.next 12 months question what our hypothecated tax? Would you back it?
:32:46. > :32:49.Something might potentially be possible. As I said on Monday,
:32:50. > :33:00.please not another rebuke of that is basically what we have. -- review.
:33:01. > :33:03.In greater Manchester, we're bringing together health and social
:33:04. > :33:09.care to do it. We need national government to show the same level to
:33:10. > :33:13.get a long-term settlement. On a hypothecated health tax, would you
:33:14. > :33:19.be in favour question what you want to increase income tax. We have set
:33:20. > :33:24.up an expert panel to look at the case for this. Attacks for the NHS
:33:25. > :33:29.and for care. People would see where money was going. -- a tax. An
:33:30. > :33:32.independent assessment of what the system needs and people would have
:33:33. > :33:36.confidence that their money was going on what they care and awful
:33:37. > :33:41.lot about. A leading Conservative supported what we are arguing for. I
:33:42. > :33:44.hope there will be a growing consensus this sort of reform is
:33:45. > :33:49.what is needed. Thank you very much. Thank you.
:33:50. > :33:52.Now, EU leaders are meeting in Brussels this afternoon for one
:33:53. > :33:56.Theresa May will be there for what's almost certainly the last such
:33:57. > :33:58.gathering before Article 50 is triggered and negotiations
:33:59. > :34:00.proper begin on Britain's departure from the EU.
:34:01. > :34:05.Our deputy political editor, John Pienaar, is there for us.
:34:06. > :34:13.John, well come back to the programme. What is on the agenda
:34:14. > :34:17.today? -- welcome back. The leaders, including Theresa May, will start
:34:18. > :34:21.arriving now. They'll be talking about migration and picking up where
:34:22. > :34:26.they left. At that informal summit. They will talk about the economy and
:34:27. > :34:32.future free-trade agreements. The lobby talking about security and the
:34:33. > :34:37.Western Balkans and Russia. -- they will be talking. Theresa May is not
:34:38. > :34:40.staying for much longer after that. They'll be talking about the
:34:41. > :34:45.anniversary of the EU's and entreaty of Rome. She will not be there. It
:34:46. > :34:53.is hard to see why. It was thought generally inappropriate to have the
:34:54. > :34:59.discussion about the togetherness of the EU just before the divorce.
:35:00. > :35:02.Donald Tusk is the president of the European Council. That is where the
:35:03. > :35:07.heads of state and heads of government gather. His own country,
:35:08. > :35:13.Poland, is opposing him. What is going on here? It is a curious and
:35:14. > :35:17.interesting feud between Donald Tusk, the president of the council,
:35:18. > :35:23.and the Polish government. His ruling party in Poland are political
:35:24. > :35:29.opponents of Donald Tusk. He staged a sit-in in the parliament not so
:35:30. > :35:32.long ago. He accused Donald Tusk of supporting the overthrow of the
:35:33. > :35:40.Government will do that is all very nasty. People like Angela Merkel and
:35:41. > :35:48.President Francois Hollande will stay where they are. Theresa May
:35:49. > :35:55.will no doubt try to use keep -- try to keep out of it. Nicola Sturgeon
:35:56. > :35:58.has been talking about the second independence referendum. Let's
:35:59. > :36:02.listen to and then I will come back to you. Within that window, I guess,
:36:03. > :36:11.of when the outline of the UK deal becomes clear, and the UK ex-eating
:36:12. > :36:15.the EU, I think it would be the common-sense time for Scotland to
:36:16. > :36:20.have that choice, if that is the road we choose to go down. You're
:36:21. > :36:26.not running out Autumn 2018? I am not ruling out anything, no. John,
:36:27. > :36:32.Scotland's minister is talking about a second referendum in the autumn of
:36:33. > :36:36.2018. -- First Minister. It is possible by then we will not know
:36:37. > :36:42.the full Brexit deal and negotiations will still be going on.
:36:43. > :36:47.I understand the Government is not minded, the British government is
:36:48. > :36:51.not minded, to agree a second referendum until a Brexit deal is
:36:52. > :36:58.done and dusted. Is that your understanding? No. Yes, it is you
:36:59. > :37:02.can see why that would be. Nicola Sturgeon was keeping the possible of
:37:03. > :37:08.a possible referendum next year wide open. You have probably seen there
:37:09. > :37:14.has been a new opinion poll today which bases of support for and
:37:15. > :37:18.against Scottish independence very evenly balanced indeed. Most of the
:37:19. > :37:22.polls in recent months have been favouring the idea of staying in the
:37:23. > :37:26.union. Nicola Sturgeon no doubt would rather have a big lead before
:37:27. > :37:30.going for another referendum poll. She cannot afford to lose a second
:37:31. > :37:34.time here is the key thing was that she is under pressure as well and
:37:35. > :37:40.under pressure from the march of Brexit. If there is a Scottish
:37:41. > :37:43.referendum after Britain is on its way and out of the European Union,
:37:44. > :37:50.the Scottish voter would be asked, do they want to leave not only the
:37:51. > :37:54.union and the European Union as well? Nicola Sturgeon wants to keep
:37:55. > :37:57.up the pressure and see the polls shift she can the chance are armed.
:37:58. > :38:02.Eye-macro thank you very much for that.
:38:03. > :38:12.-- chance her arm. The Nice summit was a four shirt summit.
:38:13. > :38:15.Now, last week, elections in Northern Ireland failed to resolve
:38:16. > :38:18.Sinn Fein gained seats and Unionists no longer have an overall
:38:19. > :38:23.The DUP are still - by one seat - the biggest party, but with
:38:24. > :38:26.Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neill still refusing to share
:38:27. > :38:28.power with DUP leader Arlene Foster, there's deadlock.
:38:29. > :38:31.The clock is ticking, as they now have three weeks to try
:38:32. > :38:33.Yesterday, the Northern Ireland Secretary,
:38:34. > :38:36.James Brokenshire, had a busy day - in Westminster for Cabinet,
:38:37. > :38:38.and then off to Northern Ireland to continue talks.
:38:39. > :38:42.Here's what he told reporters last night.
:38:43. > :38:44.I'm not going to provide a running commentary in relation
:38:45. > :38:48.There have been, I think, some helpful discussions that have
:38:49. > :38:51.taken place over recent days and a real commitment that I've
:38:52. > :38:57.discerned from the parties to get back into government,
:38:58. > :38:59.to get back into an Executive, and therefore delivering
:39:00. > :39:05.But I know that this won't all be plain sailing,
:39:06. > :39:08.but underlining that sense of what we have at stake here,
:39:09. > :39:13.the real issues that matter for Northern Ireland,
:39:14. > :39:16.that positive sense of progression that we need to continue
:39:17. > :39:18.to maintain that momentum, and that is my intent,
:39:19. > :39:32.and the intent of the Government, to see that that does happen.
:39:33. > :39:35.That is the Northern Ireland Secretary.
:39:36. > :39:37.And we're joined now by the former Ulster Unionist leader and now
:39:38. > :39:45.Welcome to the Daily Politics full stop talks are ongoing to try to
:39:46. > :39:49.restore the assembly. How optimistic are you? A deal can be reached if
:39:50. > :39:56.the major parties want to do it. So far, they are not really giving
:39:57. > :40:01.terribly encouraging signals. The DUP still seems to be mired in the
:40:02. > :40:07.mess they were in in the run-up to the election. As a result partly of
:40:08. > :40:12.the heating scandal beforehand? And other things as well. At the same
:40:13. > :40:16.time, Sinn Fein is not giving encouraging signals. Adams has
:40:17. > :40:20.reverted to the sort of language she is using 20 years ago. Walking out
:40:21. > :40:29.on the secretary of state is the sort of stunt that was done 20, 25
:40:30. > :40:32.years ago. I don't think that he is in modern, grown-up politics yet.
:40:33. > :40:35.You know a lot about what is needed to de-escalate these sort of
:40:36. > :40:45.confrontation where the to macro sides cannot agree. Is Arlene Foster
:40:46. > :40:52.the sticking point? -- to macro sides cannot disagree if she went,
:40:53. > :40:57.that would be the problem solved. I am not sure they should focus
:40:58. > :41:03.clearly on that. There is a problem. It is more about her behaviour than
:41:04. > :41:07.anything else. There would be ways in which she could change that which
:41:08. > :41:12.might make a difference. I don't like the way in which Sinn Fein is
:41:13. > :41:16.saying they want to wait until the inquiry that was established to look
:41:17. > :41:22.at that heating initiative, that it reports. That might be six, nine, 12
:41:23. > :41:26.months away. They have lost faith, haven't they? They said they did not
:41:27. > :41:30.like the way she was leading proceedings at Stormont. If she does
:41:31. > :41:35.not go, I cannot see how the deadlock breaks. I'm why do people
:41:36. > :41:43.are backing themselves into corners. We don't have very much time. I am
:41:44. > :41:51.worried that people are backing themselves into corners. Is James
:41:52. > :42:00.broke and share and honest broker in this? -- Brokenshire. You have to
:42:01. > :42:03.look at the Brexit talks and the fact that eight seats are very
:42:04. > :42:08.important in any votes that are coming up. Do you think they can be
:42:09. > :42:12.seen as honest brokers? I would not worry too much about Parliamentary
:42:13. > :42:15.arithmetic. As the last few weeks have shown, the Government is coming
:42:16. > :42:24.in every time with a very large majority. While the figures might
:42:25. > :42:31.look low, the Government has a small majority. The Government is Her
:42:32. > :42:35.Majesty's government. It has its objectives and we know what they
:42:36. > :42:39.are. At the present time but they need to get devolution restored in
:42:40. > :42:43.Ireland. No problem from government in this respect. The problems are
:42:44. > :42:47.coming from the DUP and Sinn Fein. They need to change the way they are
:42:48. > :42:51.doing things. There does not seem to be a very clear how that might be
:42:52. > :43:00.done. They are backing themselves into corners. It is said that all
:43:01. > :43:05.James Nics does is waffle, waffle, waffle, and has been called a bad
:43:06. > :43:11.day for unionism. -- Brokenshire. Nobody is in the same league as
:43:12. > :43:15.Gerry Adams when it comes to waffle. It does not look promising though,
:43:16. > :43:22.does it? As I say, I hope the Secretary of State has some
:43:23. > :43:27.contingency plans. I am married to an Irishman and I should probably
:43:28. > :43:35.say nothing about waffle. What are you implying? Nothing at all. There
:43:36. > :43:41.is talk about unionist unity, coming together to talk as one. That is a
:43:42. > :43:46.distraction. Choose drawing away attention from the mess she has
:43:47. > :43:51.made. -- she is drawing away attention. Other parties do need to
:43:52. > :43:59.address the problem, a problem they have created. If you were a betting
:44:00. > :44:05.man, do think the deal will be reached in the three weeks? -- do
:44:06. > :44:16.you think? I think that will be rather tough.
:44:17. > :44:29.Iain Duncan Smith protested about the rise as well.
:44:30. > :44:32.Now, our guest of the day, Helena Morrissey, is writing a book
:44:33. > :44:36.Helena herself has clearly done all right for herself,
:44:37. > :44:38.managing to combine her role as Chief Executive of a top
:44:39. > :44:40.investment management firm with bringing up nine children.
:44:41. > :44:49.I've come back to my old school, a place I have many memories of.
:44:50. > :44:51.Now, when I was here, the internet was brand-new,
:44:52. > :44:53.no-one had mobile phones, and a certain girlband
:44:54. > :44:57.# Yo, I'll tell you what I want What I really, really want...
:44:58. > :45:03.# What you really, really, really want #.
:45:04. > :45:06.But although the Spice Girls were topping the charts in the late-'90s,
:45:07. > :45:09.women were poorly represented in public life.
:45:10. > :45:13.Less than a fifth of MPs were female.
:45:14. > :45:15.And on the boards of the biggest companies,
:45:16. > :45:20.It's no wonder some were calling for a bit more 'Girl Power'.
:45:21. > :45:27.On the face of it, these Year Elevens will be entering
:45:28. > :45:35.I want to finish college and uni, and then go into training
:45:36. > :45:38.I plan to go into Environmental Science.
:45:39. > :45:40.I hope to be doing something political.
:45:41. > :45:44.Like, maybe as a Member of Parliament.
:45:45. > :45:48.Would any of you ever see yourself as Chief Executive of a big company,
:45:49. > :45:50.or really being at the top of your game?
:45:51. > :45:55.As long as you work hard, you can get anywhere in life.
:45:56. > :45:58.Could you ever see yourself being a Director in a boardroom?
:45:59. > :46:04.But I think the most important thing is that we shouldn't start choosing
:46:05. > :46:07.women for these jobs because they're female, just to balance the pay gap
:46:08. > :46:10.or the gender barrier, whatever, we should be choosing them
:46:11. > :46:12.because they're the right person for the job.
:46:13. > :46:17.Last year, just over a third of managerial and senior
:46:18. > :46:27.A quarter of FTSE 100 companies now have a female Director.
:46:28. > :46:31.There's 196 female MPs, that's 30% of the Commons.
:46:32. > :46:37.A little less in the Lords, where 26% of peers are women.
:46:38. > :46:42.In 2016, women accounted for 28% of judges in England and Wales,
:46:43. > :46:46.but far fewer have made it to the upper echelons.
:46:47. > :46:50.Just one judge on the Supreme Court is female.
:46:51. > :46:53.There has been progress, but the progress has been patchy.
:46:54. > :46:54.There has been particularly fast and significant
:46:55. > :47:04.However, the gender pay gap then opens up as soon
:47:05. > :47:07.as women get into their 30s, where they might just be thinking
:47:08. > :47:16.There has been progress on getting more women onto boards,
:47:17. > :47:18.but most of those positions are non-exec, so they're not
:47:19. > :47:20.the people actually making the day-to-day decisions
:47:21. > :47:26.When it comes to exam results, the tables have turned.
:47:27. > :47:29.Last year, 71% of female pupils got a C or above at GCSE, compared
:47:30. > :47:38.And that trend's continuing at university, with 37% of young
:47:39. > :47:46.women entering higher education, compared to just 27% of men.
:47:47. > :47:49.It's, in fact, now boys who are becoming the disadvantaged,
:47:50. > :47:51.some argue, and we're in danger of taking our eye off
:47:52. > :47:57.Working class white boys are the bottom of the stack.
:47:58. > :48:00.They don't qualify for any special dispensation.
:48:01. > :48:03.They certainly don't qualify for any special initiatives.
:48:04. > :48:05.Because the feeling is, it's impossible to be born a white
:48:06. > :48:08.male and to be born disadvantaged, despite the facts which
:48:09. > :48:13.Do you feel like you're about to enter a world
:48:14. > :48:16.where there is still inequality for men and women?
:48:17. > :48:21.There's more of a stereotype of women being bossy.
:48:22. > :48:23.And then men, they're the strong leaders.
:48:24. > :48:29.I think that women are really seen as pretty faces too much.
:48:30. > :48:31.I think men just dismiss their capability because of how they look.
:48:32. > :48:34.We have come very far and women should be,
:48:35. > :48:40.But I think it's so important that we don't give up,
:48:41. > :48:42.to just be like - oh, yeah, that's fine, then.
:48:43. > :48:48.Well, there's certainly some young women in here prepared to continue
:48:49. > :48:50.fighting for greater equality, but have us girls already
:48:51. > :48:57.broken the glass ceiling, or is there still a lot more to do?
:48:58. > :49:05.And we're joined now by the economist Alison Wolf.
:49:06. > :49:12.First, to quote from your book, why is it a good time to be a girl?
:49:13. > :49:16.First, we have had a big Spotlight on gender equality and that is
:49:17. > :49:20.helpful in terms of raising awareness and making people think
:49:21. > :49:27.about why is that, why have we not got equality in the 21st century? It
:49:28. > :49:31.seems odd. And I think Smart businesses and organisations and
:49:32. > :49:36.people are realising with difficult problems, we need more than one type
:49:37. > :49:43.of person to solve an appetite for cognitive diversity. What is that in
:49:44. > :49:47.English? Thinking differently. I do not think men and women are
:49:48. > :49:52.different in every respect, but we do have different attributes. Women
:49:53. > :49:56.tend to be empathetic. I want a mix of perspectives. The first step was
:49:57. > :50:02.women on boards and that is a start, not the finish. And now we have got
:50:03. > :50:07.quite a lot of momentum. It is not just about having some women in a
:50:08. > :50:11.boys club or a man's world, but changing the world so it is more
:50:12. > :50:18.balanced. Alison, is it a good time to be a girl? It is a fantastic time
:50:19. > :50:22.to be an educated girl, not sure it is a fantastic time to be a girl
:50:23. > :50:29.generally. I am very depressed by the way the feminist discussion and
:50:30. > :50:34.of women focuses so much on how many women there are one boards and the
:50:35. > :50:40.High Court, compared to even two generations ago, it is staggering
:50:41. > :50:44.progress. If you look at society as a whole, you get a growing gap
:50:45. > :50:50.between the highly educated who are more like men in many ways and other
:50:51. > :50:55.women, who are overwhelmingly working in low paid service jobs. Is
:50:56. > :51:00.that true of male and female? The digitally true for female. Partly
:51:01. > :51:07.for good reasons, inequality has increased more among women than men.
:51:08. > :51:14.And the puzzle, the challenge. It, is that the upper-middle-class,
:51:15. > :51:18.careers are increasingly possible because we have a servant class
:51:19. > :51:21.which is overwhelmingly female. Doing the lesser page jobs. You have
:51:22. > :51:29.come paid to get more women on boards and have had some success, is
:51:30. > :51:33.that more symbolic than anything? It is certainly not the end, it is a
:51:34. > :51:38.start. We started with the boards because you could easily measure it
:51:39. > :51:41.and it was very visible and after the financial crisis, we did not
:51:42. > :51:50.have good oversight of companies are in the financial sector and we
:51:51. > :51:55.needed changes. The target is 30%? As a critical mass point, ultimately
:51:56. > :52:00.we want complete balance. I agree we need progress in all areas of
:52:01. > :52:05.society and not just more women in very senior roles, although we have
:52:06. > :52:09.not got parity or anywhere like that as we have in the nonexecutive
:52:10. > :52:14.roles. But the emphasis has to be now on I think having real momentum
:52:15. > :52:18.throughout. Yesterday was International Women's Day and there
:52:19. > :52:22.was a sense in some areas of people feeling we were taking a step back
:52:23. > :52:27.because we have had some developments, the election of
:52:28. > :52:30.President Trump, leaving people wondering if we have enough positive
:52:31. > :52:37.momentum. I am optimistic and I think sometimes and people is an
:52:38. > :52:41.opportunity to look again at making decisions -- and upheaval is an
:52:42. > :52:45.opportunity. But I agree with Alison. I was not surprised but
:52:46. > :52:50.depressed that International Women's Day events focused so much on people
:52:51. > :52:54.like us, to be brutal. I am not convinced putting an Uxbridge
:52:55. > :53:00.educated metropolitan female on a board is such a change from an
:53:01. > :53:04.Uxbridge educated male on the board. I feel we always will be more aware
:53:05. > :53:11.of our surroundings and the best thing that could happen for women is
:53:12. > :53:15.for advantage and successful women and for women to be more aware of
:53:16. > :53:19.what is happening to people in other parts of society. I want to
:53:20. > :53:24.emphasise this because what is happening in our economy is
:53:25. > :53:31.increasingly shift work, part-time work, often at very difficult hours.
:53:32. > :53:37.And they are not people who can put children in nine to five daycare,
:53:38. > :53:42.people who can afford nannies, more likely they will be nannies. I just
:53:43. > :53:48.feel it is predictable and depressing that those who have done
:53:49. > :53:55.very well seem to be very much concerned with how to make things
:53:56. > :53:58.even better for people like us. What about replacing a male metropolitan
:53:59. > :54:03.elite with a female metropolitan elite? That is not the end game,
:54:04. > :54:08.obviously. I think we did see some of that to begin with and people
:54:09. > :54:12.felt it was dropped on, we have women on our board, we don't have to
:54:13. > :54:17.do something around the rest of the population. But I want to say how
:54:18. > :54:22.generous with their time a lot of women in senior roles are about
:54:23. > :54:26.speaking in schools, reaching out and being a role melt all. We cannot
:54:27. > :54:30.fix every problem, but you have to start somewhere and I feel we are
:54:31. > :54:36.trying to show we can make a positive impact, it is not one thing
:54:37. > :54:41.or the other. A lot of what you say is that the question of gender
:54:42. > :54:46.inequality is inextricably intertwined with our traditional
:54:47. > :54:52.class inequality. I think it is, I absolutely think it is, but I also
:54:53. > :54:55.think for many women, life has in some ways become harder and many
:54:56. > :55:00.would like to be in families where there could be a breadwinner when
:55:01. > :55:03.the children are small, instead of being in Waitrose getting every
:55:04. > :55:07.shift they can at 10:30 p.m.. Thank you, very interesting.
:55:08. > :55:09.Now, this programme obviously takes its politics very seriously,
:55:10. > :55:11.but not all politicians share our high-minded approach,
:55:12. > :55:14.and apparently think it's a bit of a laughing matter.
:55:15. > :55:16.So, here, for your disapproval, some laughing politicians,
:55:17. > :55:21.starting with Theresa May at PMQs yesterday.
:55:22. > :56:06.And we're joined now by the Times sketchwriter Patrick Kidd
:56:07. > :56:11.and the Conservative MP Michael Fabricant.
:56:12. > :56:19.Welcome, both. You have two laugh at some stage in politics? If you sit
:56:20. > :56:23.in the House of Commons as I do religiously, you have to laugh or
:56:24. > :56:29.you would go mad. Or cry! Theresa May really was throwing herself into
:56:30. > :56:33.that. What was the hilarity about? It was a natural reaction, like
:56:34. > :56:37.watching a rhinoceros roller-skate Philip Hammond is telling jokes! The
:56:38. > :56:43.shoulders went like a vulture in the jungle. It was not anything that had
:56:44. > :56:46.been said to her, Jeremy Corbyn was asking a question about local
:56:47. > :56:51.government Finance and clearly somebody whispered to her and that
:56:52. > :56:54.set her off. Did it looks slightly inappropriate? We saw the contrast
:56:55. > :57:01.with Jeremy Corbyn, a serious matter, the Budget. You have never
:57:02. > :57:07.seen Jeremy Corbyn smile, let alone laugh. I think he has smiled. He has
:57:08. > :57:12.not much to laugh about but I am not going to be party political! Me,
:57:13. > :57:16.party political? It is always appropriate to laugh and smile and
:57:17. > :57:25.show your humanity and Theresa May comes over very well doing that. But
:57:26. > :57:28.does it look great to have an outbreak of hysterics? Contextually,
:57:29. > :57:33.it seems odd what happened yesterday. I do agree we need
:57:34. > :57:36.politicians with a human side and with social media. The idea of
:57:37. > :57:41.everybody walking around Po faced and not caught out at any moment
:57:42. > :57:46.enjoying themselves, we would not want that either, so put them a bit
:57:47. > :57:49.of slack. Do you inject humour into the boardroom? Yes, that is
:57:50. > :57:57.essential, I think. In all walks of life. There are serious matters to
:57:58. > :58:02.attend to, but also, if you are enjoying yourself, you tend to be
:58:03. > :58:06.having better ideas. Not a lot of chuckles in asset management, let's
:58:07. > :58:12.be honest! I am struggling to think of a good joke! Wendy Duet tell your
:58:13. > :58:18.best joke and did you enjoy Philip Hammond's jokes? Mine was forced, I
:58:19. > :58:23.wanted to show they were jolly. I did the shoulders as well. If you do
:58:24. > :58:28.not find it funny, you do that and people think you are doing. Theresa
:58:29. > :58:32.May, it is very nerve-racking getting these questions and some of
:58:33. > :58:37.them you know in advance and others you do not. I have not done my
:58:38. > :58:43.homework, but not many PMQs she has done. At the moment, it is sometimes
:58:44. > :58:50.laughter of relief. What about the NIC announcements, were they funny?
:58:51. > :58:57.I thought they were interesting. It was Philip's jokes. Who is there?
:58:58. > :59:03.Philip the coffers, we need your money! You wonder what was said to
:59:04. > :59:08.her, David Cameron was laughing once and somebody had made a joke about
:59:09. > :59:10.Jeremy Corbyn, saying, he is good, isn't he? Yes, that is why I voted
:59:11. > :59:25.for him. I will be back tomorrow with a range
:59:26. > :59:43.of guests. And I will be back here tomorrow. Goodbye!
:59:44. > :59:47.The very embodiment of the England that must emerge.