:00:36. > :00:43.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:44. > :00:48.In the last few minutes, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has
:00:49. > :00:50.confirmed she will seek approval from the Scottish Parliament for
:00:51. > :00:56.Meanwhile, the Brexit Bill is back in the Commons and looks set to gain
:00:57. > :00:58.Parliamentary assent by the end of the day.
:00:59. > :01:00.The Prime Minister will then have the green light to begin
:01:01. > :01:08.As we celebrate Commonwealth Day, we debate whether Brexit will mean
:01:09. > :01:11.the rebirth of the Commonwealth and be a new era of trade
:01:12. > :01:14.And should the crown skip a generation?
:01:15. > :01:17.The journalist and writer Geoffrey Wheatcroft tells us why
:01:18. > :01:24.he thinks the next king should be William.
:01:25. > :01:29.God Save The Queen. God bless the Prince Of Wales. And long live King
:01:30. > :01:33.William V. And with us for the whole programme
:01:34. > :01:40.today, the former Secretary Of State For International
:01:41. > :01:41.Development Andrew Mitchell. And the former Shadow Health
:01:42. > :01:43.Secretary Heidi Alexander. First, today, some breaking news
:01:44. > :01:51.in the last few minutes. Scotland's First Minister
:01:52. > :01:52.Nicola Sturgeon says she will seek approval next week
:01:53. > :01:55.from the Scottish Parliament for Ms Sturgeon said she wanted a vote
:01:56. > :02:02.to be held between the autumn of 2018 and the spring
:02:03. > :02:14.of the following year. I know that there are some who want
:02:15. > :02:18.me to roll out a referendum completely, or delay the decision
:02:19. > :02:23.until much, much further down the line.
:02:24. > :02:27.I understand why some take that view and, of course, these views do weigh
:02:28. > :02:32.heavily on me. But so does this. And this for me is
:02:33. > :02:39.a key consideration. If I ruled out in referendum, I
:02:40. > :02:43.would be deciding completely unilaterally that Scotland would
:02:44. > :02:48.follow the UK to a hard Brexit come what may, no matter how damaging to
:02:49. > :02:52.our economy and our society it turns out to be.
:02:53. > :02:56.That should not be the decision of just one politician.
:02:57. > :03:01.Not even the First Minister. By taking the steps I have set out
:03:02. > :03:05.today, I am ensuring that the Scotland's future will be decided
:03:06. > :03:11.not just by me, the Scottish Government or the SNP, it will be
:03:12. > :03:16.decided by the people of Scotland. It will be Scotland's choice.
:03:17. > :03:18.And I trust the people to make that choice.
:03:19. > :03:30.The First Minister Niklas Ajo. What is your reaction?
:03:31. > :03:34.She can't really not do that. I very much if Scotland votes again it all
:03:35. > :03:41.vote to remain part of this union. It seems very much in Scotland's and
:03:42. > :03:44.England's interest, and I think since the last referendum, opinion
:03:45. > :03:49.has moved more strongly towards the union and I think some of the events
:03:50. > :03:53.in the European Union has suggested to people in Scotland there is merit
:03:54. > :03:58.in this ancient union with England. I hope it will survive. What
:03:59. > :04:01.evidence is there for the fact more people have moved in favour of the
:04:02. > :04:07.union as opposed to supporting independence on the basis more
:04:08. > :04:15.people voted to Remain in the European referendum Bantu Leave?
:04:16. > :04:19.The European referendum, that has led to a greater degree of
:04:20. > :04:24.understanding about what leaving the union means. If you look at the
:04:25. > :04:31.surveys which have taken place in Scotland in the last year, the merit
:04:32. > :04:35.of this union with England is more strongly seen.
:04:36. > :04:40.The Ipsos MORI poll published last week for STV found Scots are split
:04:41. > :04:47.50-50. Can you be supported it will be in favour of the union?
:04:48. > :04:53.It is the triggering of Article 50, and the stark realisation of what is
:04:54. > :04:56.now going to happen which may have increased temporarily support for
:04:57. > :05:01.splitting. But in the longer term if you look at the other surveys, it is
:05:02. > :05:05.more likely than it was before Scotland will vote to remain.
:05:06. > :05:10.Do you agree? I think the First Minister is wrong
:05:11. > :05:14.to issue ultimatums at the Moto -- the moment. She is right to
:05:15. > :05:19.highlight the problems of leaving the single market but in a period of
:05:20. > :05:24.economic stability, I do not think another referendum in Scotland is
:05:25. > :05:29.what the country needs. If you look at opinion polls out this morning,
:05:30. > :05:35.there are more people who are against a Scottish referendum a
:05:36. > :05:39.second time than for it. She would do well to get back to the day job
:05:40. > :05:43.of looking after the things that she is responsible for in Scotland.
:05:44. > :05:49.We will talk hopefully to someone from the SNP. Did you agree with
:05:50. > :05:54.Jeremy Corbyn a second referendum on Scottish independence would be fine?
:05:55. > :05:58.The Labour Party is clear we will vote against a second referendum in
:05:59. > :06:04.the Scottish Parliament. And so there is a question about
:06:05. > :06:08.what happens going forward, should legislation come forward in the
:06:09. > :06:12.British Parliament? But I think in terms of the vote in Scotland, we
:06:13. > :06:16.would be opposing the second referendum, a position we have made
:06:17. > :06:20.clear. Should Westminster block an attempt
:06:21. > :06:26.to hold a second independence referendum, Theresa May would have
:06:27. > :06:32.two Sachin the idea in the face of the Scottish Ponte voting for it as
:06:33. > :06:36.well Kopczak would have two sanctions the idea in the face of
:06:37. > :06:44.the Scottish Parliament. I do not think Westminster should
:06:45. > :06:49.stand in the way. We have to wait to see what happens. I do not think
:06:50. > :06:52.Westminster can stand in the way if Scotland wants another referendum
:06:53. > :06:57.and democratically decide that is what they want. It would be wrong
:06:58. > :07:03.for Westminster not to agree. Which is what Jeremy Corbyn said.
:07:04. > :07:07.His point is we do not want to be fuelling grievances.
:07:08. > :07:11.Were there to be a vote in the Scottish Parliament, the British
:07:12. > :07:17.Parliament Stott there is going to buy the sound of it.
:07:18. > :07:22.There would need to be a range of items, the date, the franchise,
:07:23. > :07:26.questions to which we do not have answers.
:07:27. > :07:30.On the issue Brexit, timing is crucial, one thing Theresa May will
:07:31. > :07:34.not want is for a second independence referendum to take
:07:35. > :07:39.place in autumn of 2018 or at any point ahead of a deal having been
:07:40. > :07:44.done if there is a deal over Brexit. I don't think there is a logic of
:07:45. > :07:49.holding a Scottish referendum until they can see the nature of the deal
:07:50. > :07:54.for Britain's exit. She wants to pre-empt a hard Brexit.
:07:55. > :07:59.It would not be logical until she can see what the cards are on the
:08:00. > :08:01.table. Until the gauche Asians are concluded with the EU, she can't do
:08:02. > :08:03.that. The Government's new aircraft
:08:04. > :08:10.carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth? At the end of the show,
:08:11. > :08:25.Andrew Mitchell and Heidi Alexander Now, the Brexit Bill is back
:08:26. > :08:29.in front of MPs today, for the first time since the Government
:08:30. > :08:32.was defeated twice in the House The bill could pass its final
:08:33. > :08:37.Parliamentary hurdles by the end of the day,
:08:38. > :08:40.leaving the way clear for Prime Minister Theresa May
:08:41. > :08:42.to trigger Article 50, and so start formal negotiations
:08:43. > :08:45.for leaving the EU, later this week. Secretary Of State For Exiting
:08:46. > :08:51.The EU David Davis is expected to stand up at around 3.30pm
:08:52. > :08:57.in the Commons to kick off the debate on the EU
:08:58. > :08:59.Notification Of Withdrawal Bill, or Brexit Bill as it is
:09:00. > :09:04.more commonly known. Up for discussion is whether to keep
:09:05. > :09:07.two amendments passed One to guarantee the rights of EU
:09:08. > :09:13.nationals living in the UK. And one to give Parliament
:09:14. > :09:15.a "meaningful" vote But the Government is expected
:09:16. > :09:21.to have a majority to remove these amendments from the Brexit Bill
:09:22. > :09:24.when MPs vote between six The bill then returns
:09:25. > :09:27.to the House Of Lords again, with peers expected to start
:09:28. > :09:30.their debate at around 8.30pm. Should MPs, as expected,
:09:31. > :09:31.remove the Lords' amendments, peers could take this opportunity
:09:32. > :09:37.to reinstate their amendments, although Labour Leader
:09:38. > :09:40.of the Lords Baroness Smith has said Either way, we will know the result
:09:41. > :09:53.of that debate at around 10.15pm. If the Lords vote to reinstate
:09:54. > :09:56.the amendments, the bill will once again return to the Commons,
:09:57. > :09:58.and could then "ping-pong" between both Houses
:09:59. > :10:00.throughout the night But if the Lords decide
:10:01. > :10:04.not to block the bill then it will go for Royal Assent,
:10:05. > :10:07.paving the way for Theresa May to trigger Article 50,
:10:08. > :10:10.the formal process for the UK Our correspondent Ben Wright
:10:11. > :10:31.is outside Parliament, Let us assume it is passed, and
:10:32. > :10:37.Theresa May decides to trigger Article 50 this week or next, what
:10:38. > :10:40.happens after that? The Parliamentary process is
:10:41. > :10:47.comparatively simple compared to how Article 50 then we'll proceed.
:10:48. > :10:51.What will happen first is that Theresa May will write to the
:10:52. > :10:56.president of the European Council Donald Tusk, the body that
:10:57. > :11:00.represents EU heads of Government and state, informing her Britain
:11:01. > :11:04.wants to leave the EU, a letter that has never been written before,
:11:05. > :11:09.triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty that has never been used
:11:10. > :11:14.before. Then the European Commission which has already been thinking
:11:15. > :11:18.about the sorts of things it will be prepared to negotiate, will write to
:11:19. > :11:28.the European Council, the 27 Member states, saying these are the things
:11:29. > :11:30.we want to negotiate, do you give approval to negotiate on your behalf
:11:31. > :11:33.with the UK? There will be a discussion over
:11:34. > :11:37.several days. And then a summit in Brussels of the remaining 27 EU
:11:38. > :11:41.countries where they will agree what that negotiating mandate will be and
:11:42. > :11:46.give the European Commission the green light to go ahead and set
:11:47. > :11:52.round a table with the UK. That summit could happen as early as
:11:53. > :11:57.April the 6th, or early May. We expect a lull after Article 50 is
:11:58. > :12:01.first triggered, then talks finally beginning with in about six or seven
:12:02. > :12:05.weeks. We know negotiations couldn't start
:12:06. > :12:10.until the formal Article 50 bill was trickled, but we do have a sense
:12:11. > :12:16.already of what Michel Barnier the chief negotiator is wanting in terms
:12:17. > :12:21.of how these negotiations should progress -- Bill was triggered.
:12:22. > :12:25.He wants to hammer out the divorce part of these talks before there is
:12:26. > :12:30.proper discussion on the future relationship. The trade deal. What
:12:31. > :12:38.is not helpful if the wording of Article 50, it isn't very extensive,
:12:39. > :12:42.only 206 words, five short paragraphs, it says a withdrawal
:12:43. > :12:47.agreement needs to be figured out taking into account the future shape
:12:48. > :12:53.of the relationship between the EU and departing state. The UK will go
:12:54. > :12:58.into these talks, and we have two discuss this in its totality, money
:12:59. > :13:05.we still owe to the EU, the rights of EU and UK citizens, the shape of
:13:06. > :13:09.future trade relations. The European Commission may want to do the
:13:10. > :13:15.divorce first and talk about the future relationship. Once Article 50
:13:16. > :13:19.has been triggered, that ball is in the EU's court, they set the
:13:20. > :13:24.negotiating mandate. What about the European Parliament?
:13:25. > :13:28.The meaningful vote amendment has been debated in the past in the
:13:29. > :13:32.House Of Lords, and again in the House Of Commons. There is a
:13:33. > :13:37.meaningful vote for the European Parliament.
:13:38. > :13:42.You are right, this is a part of an overlooked. The European Parliament
:13:43. > :13:46.will have a massive role, Article 50 gives a two year window for the
:13:47. > :13:49.withdrawal agreement to be approved, it might happen before.
:13:50. > :13:56.The European Parliament has a man who will liaise between the
:13:57. > :14:01.Parliament, and commission and Council, who talked about the idea
:14:02. > :14:06.of giving UK citizens some right to have some benefits of EU membership.
:14:07. > :14:11.He is not in negotiator but will be on the periphery of discussions. At
:14:12. > :14:15.the end of the process, once there is a draft deal, before the European
:14:16. > :14:22.Council, EU leaders, have their final vote on whether to accept, the
:14:23. > :14:26.European Parliament will have a vote also and they have a veto, they
:14:27. > :14:30.could decide we don't want any of this, we want to throw it out. A
:14:31. > :14:34.very important role at the end of all of this.
:14:35. > :14:43.Andrew Mitchell, coming back to here in the Commons, do you expect David
:14:44. > :14:47.Davies to offer assurances to rebel MPs and peers to head off any
:14:48. > :14:50.discontent? I do but I expect him to stand firm
:14:51. > :14:56.on rejecting these amendments from the House Of Lords and leaving the
:14:57. > :15:02.bill as it is. I think that he has earned the right to do that he has
:15:03. > :15:06.explained why on both issues what some of the rebels and supporters of
:15:07. > :15:13.the amendments fear, is not an issue which should bother them further.
:15:14. > :15:17.I expect Parliament to reject the Lords's amendments and with the
:15:18. > :15:21.balance between both houses on what has been said about our unwritten
:15:22. > :15:25.cost you should, I expect the House Of Lords to accept it.
:15:26. > :15:28.Will you be reassured by words from David Davies you should not be
:15:29. > :15:32.worried about the rights of EU nationals, it will be dealt with
:15:33. > :15:37.quickly and that there will be a vote for Parliament to mark I will
:15:38. > :15:42.vote to retain the amendments the House Of Lords have put in for the
:15:43. > :15:47.rights of the 3 million EU nationals to remain in the UK, and for that to
:15:48. > :15:51.be unilaterally decided before the negotiations start, and for this
:15:52. > :15:53.meaningful vote at the end of the process.
:15:54. > :15:58.I do not think Parliament should be left with a Hobbs and choice at the
:15:59. > :16:05.end of the negotiating period, that you take the terms of the deal or
:16:06. > :16:10.you fall out of the EU and have two rely on WTO trading terms because I
:16:11. > :16:15.think that would do enormous damage to the British economy. It is vital
:16:16. > :16:17.Parliament and not just Theresa May in Downing Street, has a genuine say
:16:18. > :16:26.on this at the end of the period. What is the point of just having
:16:27. > :16:31.about at the end that either is to come out with nothing or accept the
:16:32. > :16:36.deal however bad or good it is? Verse double there is no chance deal
:16:37. > :16:40.won't be cut between the EU and Britain about EU nationals here and
:16:41. > :16:46.British nationals in the European Union. So why not do it now? You
:16:47. > :16:50.don't concede a negotiation before negotiations have started but we all
:16:51. > :16:54.know what the reality is, there is no threat to EU nationals in Britain
:16:55. > :16:58.or British nationals in the European Union. On the second point, I'm a
:16:59. > :17:02.former Government whip, there are numerous ways in which Parliament
:17:03. > :17:09.can challenge the executive, whether or not... But not on those issues.
:17:10. > :17:12.Whether or not on the face of the builder is a meaningful vote, there
:17:13. > :17:15.will be several meaningful votes the Government needs to win in
:17:16. > :17:18.Parliament so I have no fear about that amendment being revoked this
:17:19. > :17:22.afternoon because Parliament have the power to put down motions, the
:17:23. > :17:25.opposition have the power to put down motions, and they can do so at
:17:26. > :17:30.any time and the Government will have to win them. Could we be in a
:17:31. > :17:32.situation where EU nationals could be deported if the negotiations
:17:33. > :17:38.don't quite go the way the Government would like? I don't know,
:17:39. > :17:44.nobody knows. The EU citizen that come to my advice surgeries in tears
:17:45. > :17:48.about the uncertainty that this has caused for them and their families,
:17:49. > :17:50.it is all very well for Andrew to sit here and said there is no
:17:51. > :17:56.conceivable way in which those people would be allowed to stay, but
:17:57. > :18:00.I know that EU citizens are very fearful at the moment and I think
:18:01. > :18:06.providing them with a guarantee at this stage is a reasonable and
:18:07. > :18:09.humane thing to do. You set out the arguments for and against but in
:18:10. > :18:13.reality the Government is going to win, it will be able to remove those
:18:14. > :18:19.amendments because the numbers do not add up, unless you know of about
:18:20. > :18:22.26 Conservative rebels that will join your side. Let's see what
:18:23. > :18:29.happens, Conservative MPs can just sit on their hands. They could
:18:30. > :18:34.abstain. Nobody knows what is going to happen. Are you worried about the
:18:35. > :18:38.number of colleagues on your side that could decide to abstain, which
:18:39. > :18:42.would mean, in effect, that those amendments remain in the bill? I am
:18:43. > :18:47.pretty confident that those amendments will not stay in the
:18:48. > :18:51.bill. I think David Davis has, in a very persuasive way, managed to
:18:52. > :18:54.persuade virtually all of my colleagues have the merit of the
:18:55. > :18:57.Government's case and I would expect the Government to win comfortably
:18:58. > :19:03.this afternoon. One other important point about what happened in the
:19:04. > :19:06.event of a deal not being reached, if you listen to Conservative MPs
:19:07. > :19:10.such as Nicky Morgan, and a super, Dominic Grieve, who have pointed out
:19:11. > :19:14.that it is imperative that Parliament, should a deal not be
:19:15. > :19:18.reached, have a say about what happens then with respect to the
:19:19. > :19:21.country going forward, and I find it inconceivable that Parliament
:19:22. > :19:27.wouldn't be involved at that stage. Anna Sue Brie has said that will
:19:28. > :19:31.stop let's say in six to 12 months negotiations are going badly and the
:19:32. > :19:36.Government decides to cut its losses and come out of the EU without a
:19:37. > :19:38.deal, World Trade Organisation rules, should there be a vote at
:19:39. > :19:43.that point to decide what happens next or would there be a general
:19:44. > :19:47.election? There would be a vote in Parliament because the opposition
:19:48. > :19:51.would put down a motion. You know there are differences in the
:19:52. > :19:54.thoughts of votes that take place in Parliament, there are binding vote
:19:55. > :20:00.put forward by the Government and there are also votes that the
:20:01. > :20:05.opposition can seek to have. If you are so sure Parliament will have a
:20:06. > :20:08.say at the end of this process, and meaningful say, I don't understand
:20:09. > :20:11.why it can't be on the face of the bill today. Because the bill has
:20:12. > :20:16.been produced by the Government and the Bill is only there to Greg
:20:17. > :20:21.Article 50, it is not getting into these subclauses. We all know
:20:22. > :20:26.Parliament, when negotiations are done, faces down the executive and
:20:27. > :20:30.says the deal, as it is set, is not acceptable, that would be a serious
:20:31. > :20:35.moment. When Parliament have a vote on this it will be meaningful.
:20:36. > :20:38.Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, should day-to-day be making speeches
:20:39. > :20:44.and debating on the merits of keeping those amendments within the
:20:45. > :20:49.Bill or will they just go ahead and vote through Article 50? I think
:20:50. > :20:53.Keir Starmer will be making the case for retaining the Lords amendments
:20:54. > :20:58.today because I think the reassurance they would provide to EU
:20:59. > :21:01.nationals and reassurance to the country in terms of elected
:21:02. > :21:06.representatives being involved at the end of this process is
:21:07. > :21:09.absolutely crucial. In the end, though, we already know from the
:21:10. > :21:14.leaders in the Lords, from Angela Smith, the leader of Labour in the
:21:15. > :21:18.Lords, that they are not going to vote on prolonged ping-pong so
:21:19. > :21:22.Article 50 will pass, probably tonight, if not fairly soon after.
:21:23. > :21:30.Should Article 50 be triggered immediately by the Prime Minister
:21:31. > :21:33.then? I think there is no reason to delay, she has the bill at that
:21:34. > :21:36.point and I would expect her to trigger it at some point in the next
:21:37. > :21:39.few days after that. Or even tomorrow? It could be as soon as
:21:40. > :21:42.tomorrow, she has a statement in the house tomorrow but I would expect
:21:43. > :21:46.her to trigger it when she is armed with the legislation to proceed
:21:47. > :21:51.fairly quickly. Do you agree the Lords will not go for prolonged
:21:52. > :21:54.ping-pong? I think Angela Smith, Labour's leader in the House of
:21:55. > :21:59.Lords, has said they will not drag out the process. I voted against the
:22:00. > :22:04.Article 50 bill, even I don't think there is merit in just read running
:22:05. > :22:06.the same argument to get the same outcome, so I don't think that we
:22:07. > :22:24.will see protracted ping-pong, but that is not to say I
:22:25. > :22:27.am happy with the Bill. There is speculation about whether the UK
:22:28. > :22:29.will get a good enough deal and Theresa May will accept, how likely
:22:30. > :22:32.do you think that is in terms of statistics, more likely we will get
:22:33. > :22:35.a good deal or we will come out and rely on WTO rules? I think we will
:22:36. > :22:38.get a good deal, and a good deal is one both sides are happy with. In
:22:39. > :22:40.Theresa May and David Davis you have got the best possible team to
:22:41. > :22:43.negotiate this for Britain and I'm very confident that once
:22:44. > :22:47.negotiations are ongoing a sensible, mutually advantageous deal will be
:22:48. > :22:53.done. Boris Johnson said no deal would be perfectly OK at the
:22:54. > :22:58.weekend, do you agree? It would be the second of my options... It would
:22:59. > :23:02.be, by dint of logic! I think there will be a deal, but the Government
:23:03. > :23:07.would be ill-advised not to plan for there not being a deal because that
:23:08. > :23:10.is part of the various scenarios that the Government must face. Are
:23:11. > :23:15.you worried that has not been enough contingency? No, David Davis said
:23:16. > :23:18.Whitehall is well abreast of the legalities. The Foreign Affairs
:23:19. > :23:23.Committee did not seem to agree. Are you being overly pessimistic? It is
:23:24. > :23:29.likely a reasonable deal will be struck between the two sides. I wish
:23:30. > :23:33.I had Andrew's optimism about this, to be honest. If you look at what
:23:34. > :23:37.Liam Fox, Boris Johnson and David Davis were saying yesterday on
:23:38. > :23:43.television, one was saying it would be fine, as you said, Jo, to fall
:23:44. > :23:47.out on WTO terms, Liam Fox was saying it would be a bad thing. I
:23:48. > :23:52.think the Government are all over the place on this and I'm really
:23:53. > :23:56.worried about what the outcome of these negotiations will be in terms
:23:57. > :24:02.of the future prosperity of our country and the jobs and trade,
:24:03. > :24:07.investment that people depend upon. I want to reassure Heidi that
:24:08. > :24:12.negotiations are being done by Theresa May and David Davis, they
:24:13. > :24:16.are in the lead and they... The other two are involved? They are a
:24:17. > :24:18.superb team. The former Lords Speaker has
:24:19. > :24:21.admitted she abandoned an investigation into peers
:24:22. > :24:24.who enjoy House Of Lords perks without doing any work,
:24:25. > :24:26.for fear of causing what she called Baroness D'Souza was investigating
:24:27. > :24:29.which peers clocked in to claim their ?300 daily allowance
:24:30. > :24:31.without making a contribution However, she then dropped the probe
:24:32. > :24:35.for fear of having to name and shame She makes the claim in the final
:24:36. > :24:39.episode of The Lords, What I wanted to find
:24:40. > :24:49.out in the research that I did a few months
:24:50. > :24:52.ago who was attending, And you know it is very
:24:53. > :24:55.difficult to quantify. There are some who make no
:24:56. > :24:58.contribution whatsoever and nevertheless claim
:24:59. > :25:01.the full amount. This is not a daycare
:25:02. > :25:09.centre or a club. It is actually a House,
:25:10. > :25:12.a legislative House. And I do firmly believe
:25:13. > :25:14.that the people who attend ought to be in a position to be
:25:15. > :25:18.able to contribute. I abandoned this research because it
:25:19. > :25:22.would have involved a degree of naming and shaming
:25:23. > :25:23.which I certainly But also that would in turn have
:25:24. > :25:31.provoked some kind of a press storm I mean, the reputation of the House
:25:32. > :25:38.is not that great anyhow. Well, we did ask Baroness D'Souza if
:25:39. > :25:50.she would like to do an interview, But we have our two guests here.
:25:51. > :25:54.Heidi Alexander, what do you make of the fact she was carrying out her
:25:55. > :25:57.own piece of research into Lords claiming the daily allowance and
:25:58. > :26:02.whether they were doing the Brexit were? I don't know whether this
:26:03. > :26:06.so-called investigation was actually a formal inquiry on the part of the
:26:07. > :26:12.Lords, it seems to me it was more a personal research project. I think
:26:13. > :26:17.that all representatives, whether in the House of Commons or the House of
:26:18. > :26:22.Lords, should always think very, very carefully before claiming
:26:23. > :26:26.expenses. I think we all have a responsibility to be getting value
:26:27. > :26:31.for money for the taxpayer, I'd also say, though, I do think the vast
:26:32. > :26:35.majority of people, perhaps not the vast majority, but the majority in
:26:36. > :26:39.the House of Lords are doing is really important work. If you think
:26:40. > :26:43.about the work on child refugees by Lord Dubs, they can make a great
:26:44. > :26:49.contribution to the legislative... But what about those who are not
:26:50. > :26:52.doing that, Andrew Mitchell? Would it have been useful and pertinent to
:26:53. > :26:55.know who was not actually contributing the work but still
:26:56. > :27:01.claiming allowances? I completely agree with what Heidi said, and I
:27:02. > :27:04.would make two points on Baroness d'Souza's report. The first issue
:27:05. > :27:08.will have had to look at voting records to see whether on the day
:27:09. > :27:13.peers were there they were voting, but that is not the only word Lords
:27:14. > :27:15.do, they do all sorts of things around the Lords on committees,
:27:16. > :27:20.formal as well as informal committees, so her research may have
:27:21. > :27:23.been flawed. The other point I would make it as the former Speaker if she
:27:24. > :27:27.thought some peers were not behaving as they stood in respect of public
:27:28. > :27:31.money then she should have used her good offices to go to them and stop
:27:32. > :27:35.them from doing it. She said she did not want your name and send them and
:27:36. > :27:40.cause a press conference by discussing it she has done that, in
:27:41. > :27:45.essence? I think that if you are going to make these sorts of
:27:46. > :27:51.allegations, it needs to be a formal inquiry, there needs to be proper,
:27:52. > :27:55.comprehensive research done, I'm not an expert on Lords procedure but I
:27:56. > :27:59.would have thought that if there was a genuine, real problem there the
:28:00. > :28:03.laws themselves would want to investigated thoroughly and not a
:28:04. > :28:07.partial piece of personal research, and I'm not clear how comprehensive
:28:08. > :28:12.this work was. You admitted it has caused a press storm anyway to a
:28:13. > :28:16.certain extent, will it hasten the call for reform again? I think there
:28:17. > :28:20.will be more reform of the Lords, the Lords themselves are looking at
:28:21. > :28:26.it, and I have great confidence in the new Lord Speaker, who I think is
:28:27. > :28:29.an enormously experienced parliamentarian, and I think you can
:28:30. > :28:33.be relied upon to be sensible about reform. But I think what you have
:28:34. > :28:37.got here is a story without evidence, which of course the press
:28:38. > :28:42.love but I'm not sure it advances the knowledge. Brexit might push the
:28:43. > :28:48.issue down to the bottom of the agenda with regards House of Lords
:28:49. > :28:51.reform. It is a problem for the day-to-day business of Government.
:28:52. > :28:56.The point I would beg on the House of Lords, there is a case for making
:28:57. > :29:00.the House of Lords smaller. David Cameron in the last parliament was
:29:01. > :29:06.actually increasing the number of peers on those benches, so I would
:29:07. > :29:09.be up for looking at reducing the number of peers in the Lords. It
:29:10. > :29:11.certainly is fall in there if everybody turns up.
:29:12. > :29:13.We're expecting a busy week here in Westminster,
:29:14. > :29:15.and further afield, let's take a look at what's coming up.
:29:16. > :29:18.As we discussed earlier, the EU Withdrawal Bill will be back
:29:19. > :29:24.MPs will vote on two amendments that were put in by the Lords.
:29:25. > :29:26.And the bill could then get final approval from
:29:27. > :29:33.Tomorrow, Theresa May will make a statement telling
:29:34. > :29:35.Parliament about the EU summit in Brussels last week.
:29:36. > :29:38.Some of the papers have been speculating that she could trigger
:29:39. > :29:41.Article 50 on Tuesday, but others think later
:29:42. > :29:47.On Wednesday, Jeremy Corbyn will face Theresa May for PMQs.
:29:48. > :29:49.As ever, we'll broadcast the session live and in full
:29:50. > :29:54.Also on Wednesday, there's a general election in the Netherlands.
:29:55. > :29:56.All eyes will be on Geert Wilders - it's thought that his
:29:57. > :30:00.Party For Freedom will significantly boost their number of seats.
:30:01. > :30:03.Sticking with foreign affairs, we'll get an outline
:30:04. > :30:06.of Donald Trump's budget plans on Thursday, although the full
:30:07. > :30:09.details of his tax and spending plans aren't expected for another
:30:10. > :30:12.And on Friday, Nicola Sturgeon will address the SNP
:30:13. > :30:18.The First Minister will be able to tell the party
:30:19. > :30:29.faithful why she now wants a second independence referendum.
:30:30. > :30:32.We're joined by Kevin Schofield from Politics Home and Alison Little of
:30:33. > :30:40.the Daily Express. Kevin, give us your reaction to what
:30:41. > :30:44.Nicola Sturgeon said about seeking approval for the second independence
:30:45. > :30:48.referendum? It is not much of a surprise, she has been threatening
:30:49. > :30:52.it, talking about it being highly likely, very likely, ever since the
:30:53. > :30:56.Brexit vote, so now has been the time for her to put her cards on the
:30:57. > :31:00.table and to her credit she has done that this morning, the ball is
:31:01. > :31:05.firmly in the Prime Minister's court. Has she been forced, if you
:31:06. > :31:10.like, to announce the date, obviously it was in their manifesto,
:31:11. > :31:14.something she has talked about doing if certain conditions were not met
:31:15. > :31:19.by Theresa May, is it something she really wanted to announce today,
:31:20. > :31:25.though? I think she said before that she wouldn't call another referendum
:31:26. > :31:29.unless there had been a sustained poll lead for independence, clearly
:31:30. > :31:34.that has not been the case, I think another poll out today shows a
:31:35. > :31:37.slight advantage to the pro union side, so in a way she has been
:31:38. > :31:41.backed into a corner, she has a lot of members who joined in the wake of
:31:42. > :31:44.the last referendum who are desperate to have a second one so
:31:45. > :31:48.she has to try to keep them on board and the Brexit vote has provided an
:31:49. > :31:54.opportunity to give them what they want. Addison, she has done it of
:31:55. > :31:57.course before Theresa May has the opportunity to trigger Article 50
:31:58. > :32:00.but that will happen soon. Should she go ahead or block any second
:32:01. > :32:12.independence referendum? Theresa May has made a very big
:32:13. > :32:16.thing of respecting Scotland and devolved assemblies, Nicola Sturgeon
:32:17. > :32:18.has made great play of the fact Scotland has been ignored by the
:32:19. > :32:26.Government. If Theresa May ordered Westminster
:32:27. > :32:29.to block another referendum if that was overwhelmingly backed by the
:32:30. > :32:35.Scottish Parliament, I think that wouldn't help relations. It would
:32:36. > :32:43.play into Nicola Sturgeon's hands. It is very dangerous as we know, a
:32:44. > :32:47.very dangerous time for the UK. She has announced this today Nicola
:32:48. > :32:52.Sturgeon. When do you think Theresa May will trigger Article 50 if it
:32:53. > :32:59.gets Royal assent later? As Liam Fox said, it will be this
:33:00. > :33:03.week, next week or the week after! Her self-imposed deadline and
:33:04. > :33:09.Downing Street is sticking to this. It is a big moment. The invoking of
:33:10. > :33:13.Article 50. It is the last really big, clear thing that will happen
:33:14. > :33:17.with Brexit for a couple of years at least. If I were Theresa May I would
:33:18. > :33:22.want to make sure that I completely chose the venue and the timing,
:33:23. > :33:27.there is talk whether she might mention it in the House Of Commons
:33:28. > :33:31.tomorrow. The problem that is, it is a bear pit full of people who hate
:33:32. > :33:36.the idea of Brexit. She would have to take questions. She is very good
:33:37. > :33:42.at giving preprepared statements which set the right tone. When she
:33:43. > :33:47.answers questions, sometimes she can muddy the clarity of that message.
:33:48. > :33:52.She may well do it tomorrow. What do you think if you were a betting man?
:33:53. > :33:56.Or will she avoid the bearpit of the House Of Commons and do it somewhere
:33:57. > :34:00.else? She can't avoid that bearpit, she is
:34:01. > :34:06.making that statement. I would be surprised if it wasn't Wednesday by
:34:07. > :34:11.the latest. She now wants it to happen. It is entirely in her gift.
:34:12. > :34:17.It is significant the statement tomorrow is a little bit later than
:34:18. > :34:22.we would otherwise have expected, at 3:30pm, Parliament sits tomorrow
:34:23. > :34:25.morning. That would give her enough time to trigger Article 50, come
:34:26. > :34:30.into Parliament and take as many questions as she can.
:34:31. > :34:35.Let us talk about Labour spending, there has been a contradiction,
:34:36. > :34:40.Jeremy Corbyn disputing to some extent his own Shadow Cabinet Member
:34:41. > :34:45.Rebecca Long-Bailey who talked about reversing tax cuts by the Government
:34:46. > :34:53.to raise ?70 billion but would then be put to public spending.
:34:54. > :35:02.Tell us the significance? It is significant, if I had ?1 for
:35:03. > :35:06.every story over Labour confusion, I would have ?14?
:35:07. > :35:10.It happens quite a lot. There is definite confusion, Jeremy Corbyn on
:35:11. > :35:14.the radio today saying he did not recognise this ?60 billion figure
:35:15. > :35:19.despite the fact Rebecca Long-Bailey tipped by many to be the next Labour
:35:20. > :35:22.leader saying those figures were broadly accurate.
:35:23. > :35:28.The problem Labour has is people are not taking them seriously especially
:35:29. > :35:33.over the economy. People look at the opinion polls and see they have a
:35:34. > :35:38.mountain to climb and they are not well placed at the moment unless
:35:39. > :35:42.there is a dramatic change in public opinion, to be a Government in
:35:43. > :35:47.waiting. All these browsers seem to confirm
:35:48. > :35:51.that idea the voters have, that Labour are in a real mess.
:35:52. > :35:56.Thank you to both of you, enjoy the sunshine.
:35:57. > :36:00.Back to that breaking News, the First Minister of Scotland Nicola
:36:01. > :36:04.Sturgeon has announced she will seek approval for a second independence
:36:05. > :36:09.referendum. Let us talk to the SNP Europe spokesman Stephen Gethin
:36:10. > :36:13.welcome back to the Daily Politics. Why did she make the announcement
:36:14. > :36:17.today? It is important people in Scotland
:36:18. > :36:23.are given a choice McGivern Article 50 looks increasingly likely it is
:36:24. > :36:29.going to be triggered, I think the people of Scotland need to know
:36:30. > :36:34.their options and make a choice of their futures, isolationist future
:36:35. > :36:38.with the UK, or is it securing a relationship with our partners in
:36:39. > :36:42.Europe? She hasn't trickled Article 50, it
:36:43. > :36:47.is still being debated in the Commons, we will go back to the
:36:48. > :36:51.Lords later this evening. Isn't this rather presumptive? Wait
:36:52. > :36:55.a minute. We have had several months, nine months on from the
:36:56. > :36:59.European referendum, we are several months on from when the Scottish
:37:00. > :37:03.Government came forward with a compromise document. In that time
:37:04. > :37:16.the promised has rejected the single market which could cause the
:37:17. > :37:19.loss of tens of thousands of Scottish jobs, rejected the customs
:37:20. > :37:22.union, we are looking at an increasingly hard Tory Brexit. It is
:37:23. > :37:24.right the First Minister has taken the opportunity to set out the
:37:25. > :37:25.options the people of Scotland now have.
:37:26. > :37:28.Negotiations have even started, we don't know whether there will be a
:37:29. > :37:34.hard Tory Brexit as you call it, a deal has not been put either to
:37:35. > :37:42.other parts of Parliament. Having already in website running by
:37:43. > :37:46.the SNP, it all smacks like you have had this long prepared and this is
:37:47. > :37:51.the moment you have been waiting for, the excuse to launch the
:37:52. > :37:56.process for a referendum, otherwise why you -- Why do you have a website
:37:57. > :38:02.ready to go. We have had nine months from the
:38:03. > :38:08.23rd of June referendum. During those months, we are seeing a huge
:38:09. > :38:10.amount of uncertainty the business, for universities, we have seen the
:38:11. > :38:15.only substantial piece of work from the Government is the Scottish
:38:16. > :38:20.Government zest compromise undermined by the UK government. It
:38:21. > :38:22.is right the First Minister sets out the options for the people of
:38:23. > :38:27.Scotland. What evidence do you have a majority
:38:28. > :38:32.in Scotland would vote for independence?
:38:33. > :38:38.We have seen the most recent opinion polls showing 50-50.
:38:39. > :38:42.One poll has said that. You have had the average of three
:38:43. > :38:47.polls over the past weeks. We also in a situation, bear in
:38:48. > :38:54.mind, the independence referendum previously when it started off at
:38:55. > :38:56.27%. If you put polls to one side, the people of Scotland voted
:38:57. > :39:04.overwhelmingly to remain part of the EU. They are being taken out against
:39:05. > :39:07.their will. That could cost tens of thousands of jobs. The Scottish
:39:08. > :39:12.Government has a responsibility to do everything in its power to
:39:13. > :39:15.protect those jobs, protect our economy and protect our relationship
:39:16. > :39:20.with Europe. In the manifesto, I remember it was
:39:21. > :39:22.done on the promise of a second independence referendum if there
:39:23. > :39:27.were times not in the interests of Scotland and if there was
:39:28. > :39:32.overwhelmingly support for that second referendum. There was that
:39:33. > :39:36.support at the moment. The manifesto says there could be
:39:37. > :39:42.another independence referendum in the circumstances Scotland was taken
:39:43. > :39:47.out of the EU against its will. The SNP was re-elected with an
:39:48. > :39:51.increased vote on that manifesto. They have the mandate, something
:39:52. > :39:56.recognised by other parties as well. On that basis they take it forward.
:39:57. > :40:00.You are right, it is for us to go in and make these arguments but we are
:40:01. > :40:04.in a situation whereby we have a choice and the people of Scotland
:40:05. > :40:08.have a choice between a hard Tory Brexit or protecting jobs by
:40:09. > :40:12.maintaining our relationship with our European partners.
:40:13. > :40:17.We have a Government response, I won't read the whole thing, it says
:40:18. > :40:24.over, only a little over two years ago people in Scotland decisively
:40:25. > :40:28.voted to remain part of the UK which the Scottish Government defined as a
:40:29. > :40:32.once in a generation vote. Evidence shows the majority in Scotland do
:40:33. > :40:36.not want a second independence referendum, another would be
:40:37. > :40:40.divisive and caused huge economic uncertainty at the worst time.
:40:41. > :40:44.Presumably indicating you want it to happen in autumn 2018 when
:40:45. > :40:46.negotiations will be going on for Brexit.
:40:47. > :40:51.Do you accept you did say it would be a once in a generation vote last
:40:52. > :40:54.time? That is why you stand on a
:40:55. > :41:00.manifesto. The Chancellor is in difficulty for failing to live up to
:41:01. > :41:06.the Tory party commitments. You put something in a manifesto and people
:41:07. > :41:10.vote on it. The SNP was voted on its 20 16th manifesto commitment which
:41:11. > :41:14.was very explicit. Government rise and fall in terms of their
:41:15. > :41:17.commitments, something we are finding out after another
:41:18. > :41:22.catastrophic budget here at Westminster. They were very clear
:41:23. > :41:27.about the manifesto, the people of Scotland had a choice and the SNP
:41:28. > :41:31.were re-elected on that basis. When would you like the second
:41:32. > :41:37.independence referendum to be? The First Minister set at a temple
:41:38. > :41:41.-- Set up a timetable. That makes a lot of sense. By that stage we will
:41:42. > :41:46.have a lot more information about what Brexit means. Others are not
:41:47. > :41:51.hopeful about what it means. It gives the people the opportunity to
:41:52. > :41:57.make a more informed choice. Thank you very much.
:41:58. > :42:00.Now, it may not be in your calendar, but today is Commonwealth Day.
:42:01. > :42:04.Marked around the world, the idea is to promote
:42:05. > :42:06.the Commonwealth's "shared values" and to celebrate the diversity
:42:07. > :42:08.of the organisation which has 52 members across six continents.
:42:09. > :42:11.But while the pomp and pageantry is the focus of today,
:42:12. > :42:14.since last year's vote to leave the EU many have been
:42:15. > :42:16.talking about a new era for the Commonwealth club.
:42:17. > :42:19.The Government has talked optimistically about the possibility
:42:20. > :42:22.of striking new trade deals with the likes of Australia
:42:23. > :42:24.and Canada, while last week Commonwealth trade ministers meeting
:42:25. > :42:26.in London agreed to strengthen economic ties between members.
:42:27. > :42:28.So, could these potential trade deals be new economic
:42:29. > :42:38.Or has their importance been exaggerated?
:42:39. > :42:40.We're joined now by the Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell,
:42:41. > :42:43.who has come to the studio direct from a Commonwealth flag-raising
:42:44. > :42:52.And by Tom Brake, Lib Dem spokesman on foreign affairs.
:42:53. > :42:59.I think we know which side both of you are on this argument.
:43:00. > :43:05.Britain has a free trading agreement with the EU where we export 228th
:43:06. > :43:10.Battalion pounds of goods and services. Our export trade with the
:43:11. > :43:15.Commonwealth is worth around ?47 billion. Less than one fifth of
:43:16. > :43:18.that. In a way, new trade deals with the Commonwealth is a side deal
:43:19. > :43:23.compared with getting a trade deal with the EU?
:43:24. > :43:26.The reality is we have so many opportunities to trade with the
:43:27. > :43:31.Commonwealth it is an expanding market for Britain.
:43:32. > :43:35.It would have to expand an awful lot.
:43:36. > :43:41.We have been in the EU for over 40 years, in a straitjacket. By having
:43:42. > :43:46.Brexit, we can do our own trade deals, negotiate independently based
:43:47. > :43:50.on our common heritage, rule of law, common legal system, and the fact we
:43:51. > :43:55.speak the same language. So many opportunities. It's not about not
:43:56. > :44:01.trading with Europe but doing both. We can do both, a trade deal with
:44:02. > :44:05.the EU and deals with India, Australia, which we have been
:44:06. > :44:11.prohibited from because of our membership of the customs you.
:44:12. > :44:17.The EU has just struck a deal with Canada. The issue is, as you stated,
:44:18. > :44:21.the size of what we do with the EU versus the Commonwealth is an issue.
:44:22. > :44:26.And we could do both. Another issue is actually in terms of specialists
:44:27. > :44:32.within the Department for its national trade, there are very few
:44:33. > :44:37.that can deal with these. There are many Commonwealth countries who
:44:38. > :44:41.threw the ACP countries already have a relationship with the EU,
:44:42. > :44:45.countries like Belize, Members of the Commonwealth who are worried the
:44:46. > :44:50.arrangement they have currently with the EU, if that were to be damaged,
:44:51. > :44:55.and they weren't able to draw up a similar arrangement with the UK in
:44:56. > :44:59.future, if the UK was doing a deal with Ecuador, that would wipe out
:45:00. > :45:03.their industry. We have the potential but the Commonwealth is
:45:04. > :45:09.much smaller, and I know from having lived in Australia that Australia is
:45:10. > :45:15.much more focused on the far east in terms of its markets than the UK.
:45:16. > :45:19.There is a point about priorities, surely the UK was very attractive as
:45:20. > :45:24.an open door to the EU that those Commonwealth countries which we will
:45:25. > :45:29.no longer be once we have left. First, the Commonwealth is an
:45:30. > :45:31.expanding market, the EU is a decreasing market.
:45:32. > :45:39.My point is their view of us, they may not view us as appealing if we
:45:40. > :45:42.don't have an open door to the EU. We are going to leave but we will
:45:43. > :45:48.still trade with Europe. But we wouldn't be that open door as
:45:49. > :45:53.part of the EU to other countries. I think we will be, we are a low tax
:45:54. > :45:58.economy, we have a flexible Labour market, we are a chat live for
:45:59. > :46:02.countries to invest. Europe will want to trade with us. It is about
:46:03. > :46:08.doing both. We have neglected the well, we haven't done our own trade
:46:09. > :46:09.deals. Canada, we could have had a deal decades ago but because of the
:46:10. > :46:19.EU we have been prevented. And of course it is these
:46:20. > :46:22.multilateral agreements that are so hard to strike, bilateral may be
:46:23. > :46:29.easier? But of course we may get less than when we get deals from the
:46:30. > :46:32.European Union. With countries like India, for instance, India may want
:46:33. > :46:38.to achieve a bilateral deal with a much greater degree of penetration
:46:39. > :46:42.of the UK market of Indian nationals, for instance, so from an
:46:43. > :46:46.immigration point of view those deals may require the UK to concede
:46:47. > :46:52.more in allowing Indians to come to the EU. But the EU countries demand
:46:53. > :46:58.whatever they want, so instead of doing a British deal with our best
:46:59. > :47:02.friends, we are stuck worrying about what France wants or what Romania
:47:03. > :47:07.wants, or Greece. So we are going to be free and able to do our own
:47:08. > :47:11.thing, trading globally, as we have done throughout our history, a
:47:12. > :47:16.seafaring, free trading nation with our best friends once again. Let's
:47:17. > :47:20.pick up on India, we covered the visit not long ago and it was very
:47:21. > :47:29.clear that any deal from the Indian side would be far more visas, would
:47:30. > :47:32.you accept that? That is the great thing about Brexit, we can make our
:47:33. > :47:36.own immigration policy again. If it is immigration the country needs, I
:47:37. > :47:38.welcome that, but it should be controlled by the British
:47:39. > :47:43.Government, not anybody from Europe and nobody from the Commonwealth,
:47:44. > :47:47.which is what we have at the moment. Clearly the UK needs to attract
:47:48. > :47:51.people with the skills that we need but I think Andrew has just revealed
:47:52. > :48:02.something I suspect not many people who voted for Leave are aware of,
:48:03. > :48:04.which is one of the prices to pay for Brexit might actually be more
:48:05. > :48:07.immigration from India. I can't remember that being a big campaign
:48:08. > :48:10.slogan. I didn't say that at all, we should control who comes in and if
:48:11. > :48:13.there is a skilled person in India why should they not have the same
:48:14. > :48:15.opportunities as a skilled person from Italy? I don't understand why
:48:16. > :48:19.we have a system where the Commonwealth are second best but we
:48:20. > :48:22.only really give total access to Europe. That will change with
:48:23. > :48:26.Brexit, we need to reboot our relationship with the Commonwealth,
:48:27. > :48:29.have a stronger relationship, because historically they are our
:48:30. > :48:34.best friends so why not work more closely with them. What I keep
:48:35. > :48:37.saying is fanciful, I have a large Jamaican population in my
:48:38. > :48:43.constituency, we export more to Lithuania than to Jamaica. I looked
:48:44. > :48:46.on the Department for trade's website this morning about expanding
:48:47. > :48:51.trade with Jamaica, do you know what came upon the website? It said the
:48:52. > :48:54.country guide for Jamaica is currently not available. The
:48:55. > :48:56.Government talk the talk when it comes to expanding trade
:48:57. > :49:01.opportunities but they clearly do not have the capacity to deliver
:49:02. > :49:07.and, as Tom says, we already have trading arrangements with a number
:49:08. > :49:10.of Commonwealth countries so we are just reinventing something we
:49:11. > :49:13.already have. Do you agree, are we prepared to take up the
:49:14. > :49:17.opportunities if they exist with, most countries or is this symbolic?
:49:18. > :49:21.We want to trade with everyone, Andrew was right in what he said,
:49:22. > :49:25.this is an opportunity to greatly expand trade with the Commonwealth
:49:26. > :49:29.but where there are lots of nations growing at the highest rate anywhere
:49:30. > :49:34.in the world, but also to continue to trade, I hope, in a very open
:49:35. > :49:35.way, with the European Union, so it should be a win-win. Thank you both
:49:36. > :49:43.very much. Commonwealth Day seems a good day to
:49:44. > :49:47.talk about the royal succession. Elizabeth II is of course our
:49:48. > :49:49.longest-serving monarch, and attention is inevitably
:49:50. > :50:00.beginning to focus There is a growing number of people
:50:01. > :50:04.who question whether the throne should skip Prince Charles and go
:50:05. > :50:06.straight to his son William. The journalist and monarchist
:50:07. > :50:08.Geoffrey Wheatcroft says Charles has too many controversial views,
:50:09. > :50:10.and the throne needs Beyond most people's
:50:11. > :50:25.retiring age already. His mother, the Queen,
:50:26. > :50:28.is 90, and already our If she lives anything
:50:29. > :50:34.like as long as her own mother, the Prince will be approaching
:50:35. > :50:38.the age of 80 by the time Plenty of people have begun
:50:39. > :50:44.to wonder whether he should or whether the monarchy
:50:45. > :50:46.could survive the reign Criticisms of the Prince
:50:47. > :50:59.of Wales tend to come So, let me just say that the House
:51:00. > :51:07.of Hanover has no more loyal No stronger adherent
:51:08. > :51:11.of the principles of the glorious revolution, the Protestant
:51:12. > :51:13.succession, and the But one essential feature of that
:51:14. > :51:24.constitutional monarchy as it has evolved is that the monarch has
:51:25. > :51:29.what the great Victorian writer Walter Bagehot called
:51:30. > :51:30.the right to be consulted, the right to encourage,
:51:31. > :51:35.and the right to warn. But the monarch does not
:51:36. > :51:37.have the right to express The Queen has famously never
:51:38. > :51:51.said anything in public That is, she never says anything
:51:52. > :52:00.which is the opinion of Her Majesty, as opposed to Her Majesty's
:52:01. > :52:06.Government. Her son the Prince Of Wales just
:52:07. > :52:09.as famously never tires of writing letters to Cabinet ministers giving
:52:10. > :52:13.them advice, and letting the rest of us know what he thinks
:52:14. > :52:16.about every known subject, from genetically modified crops,
:52:17. > :52:20.to grammar schools, It is said that he now
:52:21. > :52:29.hopes to become king, that he very much wants his wife
:52:30. > :52:31.the Duchess of Cornwall And that he intends to go
:52:32. > :52:38.on expanding his own But if that is true,
:52:39. > :52:42.then he has simply failed after all this time to grasp
:52:43. > :52:45.the essential nature The Prince Of Wales
:52:46. > :52:54.is a fundamentally decent and serious man with a strong
:52:55. > :53:11.sense of duty. Mightn't he express his duty best
:53:12. > :53:13.by relinquishing his right It could then pass directly
:53:14. > :53:17.to his son Prince William, the Duke Of Cambridge,
:53:18. > :53:19.who is an engaging young man The Prince, or rather the Duke
:53:20. > :53:24.of Highgrove, or whatever he'd be called by then,
:53:25. > :53:33.could continue to express his personal views on any subject
:53:34. > :53:36.he liked quite harmlessly. He must be the best hope for his
:53:37. > :53:44.dynasty and indeed for all of us. And Geoffrey Wheatcroft
:53:45. > :53:52.joins me now from Bristol. You are saying that we should skip a
:53:53. > :53:57.generation, leave out Prince Charles and go straight to Prince William.
:53:58. > :54:01.Is that possible, though? What is the historical precedent? I can't
:54:02. > :54:03.immediately think of one but anything is possible under the
:54:04. > :54:07.constitutional system, that is another of the aspects of its
:54:08. > :54:13.genius, it would take an act of Parliament and it could pass as
:54:14. > :54:19.quickly as the abdication was in 1936. The prince would simply
:54:20. > :54:25.relinquish his right to succeed his mother and would pass their 40s
:54:26. > :54:32.eldest son. You said you are unhappy with the fact that the monarch
:54:33. > :54:35.shouldn't express public or personal -- shouldn't express personal
:54:36. > :54:38.opinions in public and Prince Charles has done that, but why are
:54:39. > :54:45.they not allowed to have a point of view? Because if it was completely
:54:46. > :54:51.harmless or uncontroversial, there would be no problem. But he doesn't,
:54:52. > :54:55.he has chosen a large number of subjects, it is not that he even has
:54:56. > :55:02.a particular political standpoint, the funny thing is on subjects like
:55:03. > :55:06.his dislike of contemporary architecture and his love of the
:55:07. > :55:11.book of Common prayer he is what you could call Daily Telegraph, then on
:55:12. > :55:18.his criticism of genetically modified crops and his respect for
:55:19. > :55:22.Islam he is more Guardian. He's not that political, as you say. Have all
:55:23. > :55:34.previous monarchs are obeyed the rules? Oh, yes. Gradually the power
:55:35. > :55:41.of the monarch, 200 years ago, 250, the reign of King George III, the
:55:42. > :55:46.monarch was very much his own chief executive, like the American
:55:47. > :55:50.president today, he didn't even require a parliamentary majority,
:55:51. > :55:55.the genius of our system as it has evolved as you have on the one hand
:55:56. > :56:01.Parliamentary Government with the Prime Minister at any given moment
:56:02. > :56:07.with a Commons majority and the monarchy does not have a political
:56:08. > :56:12.personality. Stay with us because we have two lawmakers here in the
:56:13. > :56:15.studio. What would you do, Heidi Alexander, would you support a bill
:56:16. > :56:19.that said, let's skip a generation and go to Prince William? That is
:56:20. > :56:25.probably for Prince Charles and Prince William to decide amongst
:56:26. > :56:30.themselves. I personally have not spent a lot of time thinking about
:56:31. > :56:34.this issue, I can't get too excited about Prince Charles expressing
:56:35. > :56:40.views. Where I would be concerned is if decision-makers were unduly or
:56:41. > :56:45.inappropriately influenced by things that Prince Charles had said, but my
:56:46. > :56:50.motto in life, really, is everything in moderation, and so I think I
:56:51. > :56:54.don't really have an issue with it and at the end of the day we have
:56:55. > :56:58.had a situation where the Queen has been the monarch for an incredibly
:56:59. > :57:03.long period of time and Prince Charles is a human being and will
:57:04. > :57:07.have views like other people. Why shouldn't he express them, does that
:57:08. > :57:10.exclude him from becoming the next monarch? Geoffrey Wheatcroft is
:57:11. > :57:14.probably one of our greatest living journalists but on this issue I
:57:15. > :57:23.think he is mistaken. We are not entitled as subjects to a Paul King
:57:24. > :57:27.or short king or literate Queen or illiterate queen, we get the eldest
:57:28. > :57:33.child of the sovereign and I don't think there is any chance of
:57:34. > :57:37.Geoffrey 's eloquent proposal gaining traction. I fear it will
:57:38. > :57:45.deprive him in future of the Sir Geoffrey Wheatcroft! You have been
:57:46. > :57:49.warned, Geoffrey Wheatcroft! The original justification for the
:57:50. > :57:53.Monaco was the divine right of kings and to take on a point from Andrew
:57:54. > :57:58.Mitchell, if Prince Charles has been chosen by God then we should not let
:57:59. > :58:04.his views on GM crops, for example, getting the way. King Edward VIII
:58:05. > :58:09.chosen by God, would have been if he had been crowned, which he wasn't.
:58:10. > :58:14.But that was his personal choice. The abdication was a very brave
:58:15. > :58:21.constitutional crisis in deed, and I foresee some such crisis arising if
:58:22. > :58:27.the prince inherit the throne and is publicly at odds with His Majesty's
:58:28. > :58:33.Government on some highly contentious issues. That is what he
:58:34. > :58:38.has threatened himself. I just don't think you will be. Everything about
:58:39. > :58:41.Prince Charles suggests he accepts the conventions which have governed
:58:42. > :58:46.the British monarchy for the last 100 years and I think he will make a
:58:47. > :58:49.very fine king. And also, Geoffrey Wheatcroft, the Queen has
:58:50. > :58:52.scrupulously avoided expressing personal opinions in public but they
:58:53. > :58:56.have slipped out or others have said it on her behalf on things like
:58:57. > :59:01.Brexit and Scottish independence and it has not harmed her, it is not a
:59:02. > :59:05.constitutional problem, is it? It is different because she has not said
:59:06. > :59:10.it in public, people beat what she says sometimes as they leek anything
:59:11. > :59:13.else but I don't think, that does not compare with the ceaseless
:59:14. > :59:17.expression of controversial opinions by the Prince. I will have to leave
:59:18. > :59:19.it there but thank you for talking to us. Just time before we go to
:59:20. > :59:23.find out the answer to the quiz. The Government's new aircraft
:59:24. > :59:26.carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth. So, Andrew and Heidi,
:59:27. > :59:38.what's the correct answer? We have conferred and we believe
:59:39. > :59:44.that it is Boaty McBoatface. Well, you are both right, well done, there
:59:45. > :59:48.it is. That is Boaty McBoatface, but the vessel from which it will be
:59:49. > :59:49.launched in the future is Sir David Attenborough. Well done both be.
:59:50. > :59:54.The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:59:55. > :59:57.I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big