:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:51.The question is that the motion be agreed to. As many of that of the
:00:52. > :00:55.opinion site content. Not content? The bill that gives Theresa May
:00:56. > :00:59.the power to trigger Brexit passed its final Parliamentary
:01:00. > :01:01.hurdles last night. How will the Prime Minister
:01:02. > :01:03.wield that power and how Scotland's First Minister Nicola
:01:04. > :01:06.Sturgeon has called for a fresh referendum on Scottish Independence
:01:07. > :01:09.- but will Theresa May stop it happening before
:01:10. > :01:15.Brexit is completed? Last week's budget confirmed plans
:01:16. > :01:18.for a sharp increase in probate fees Some Tory MPs are calling
:01:19. > :01:21.it a "stealth tax". Is another rebellion
:01:22. > :01:25.brewing for the Chancellor? Well, at least I don't have to worry
:01:26. > :01:35.about her running off All that in the next hour
:01:36. > :01:48.and with us for the whole of the programme today
:01:49. > :01:51.the comedy impresario, founder of "The Stand" comedy clubs,
:01:52. > :01:54.turned SNP MP, Tommy Sheppard. So we're expecting
:01:55. > :02:05.the "European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill"
:02:06. > :02:07.to pass into law today. Last night parliament had,
:02:08. > :02:10.what turned out to be, its final opportunity to debate and vote
:02:11. > :02:12.on the bill. Here are some of the contributions
:02:13. > :02:18.from MPs in the Commons. Over the last five weeks,
:02:19. > :02:21.we have seen Parliament at its best. Honourable and Right Honourable
:02:22. > :02:23.members and peers have spoken with passion,
:02:24. > :02:25.sincerity and conviction. However, I was disappointed
:02:26. > :02:29.that the House of Lords This bill is just the next step
:02:30. > :02:35.in a long, democratic process surrounding our exit
:02:36. > :02:38.from the European Union. Are we prepared to use one set
:02:39. > :02:42.of people, those that are here, as a bargaining chip to get
:02:43. > :02:48.the right set of... Parliament will find
:02:49. > :02:53.a way to have a say, whether a deal is reached
:02:54. > :02:59.or whether no deal is reached. If he recognised that,
:03:00. > :03:02.would he agree with me that it would be better if the Government
:03:03. > :03:05.officially recognise that position As I said last week,
:03:06. > :03:10.because it is unnecessary. When a minister gives an undertaking
:03:11. > :03:13.at this dispatch box in this House, If we pass this today,
:03:14. > :03:21.we are passing this Government a blank cheque, a blank cheque
:03:22. > :03:33.on one of the most crucial issues that this parliament has ever
:03:34. > :03:35.discussed and one that will have an impact on each
:03:36. > :03:38.and every one of us and each The simple truth is this,
:03:39. > :03:43.deal or no deal, vote or no vote, positive vote or negative vote,
:03:44. > :03:45.this process is irreversible, we are leaving the EU and that's
:03:46. > :03:48.what the people want. Stubbornness can be
:03:49. > :03:52.a sign of suspicion Rejecting the rightful conventional
:03:53. > :03:58.role of the House of Commons and the Other Place to apply
:03:59. > :04:00.democratic accountability to the actions and decisions
:04:01. > :04:03.of the Executive can be a sign I shall vote against all
:04:04. > :04:10.of the amendments... ..on the simple basis that this bill
:04:11. > :04:16.has one purpose and one purpose only and it's to give legal effect
:04:17. > :04:19.to the decision of the people Any amendments which go beyond that
:04:20. > :04:25.are inappropriate for that bill. However, I would like to say
:04:26. > :04:29.to the Secretary of State that I look to him to give the firm
:04:30. > :04:33.assurances that he stop and that the first priority will be
:04:34. > :04:38.the rights of EU citizens. Some of the debate in the commons
:04:39. > :04:55.last night ending with MPs rejecting the two Lords' amendments
:04:56. > :04:59.passed by peers last week. So the Bill then went back to
:05:00. > :05:07.the Lords who had their final say. This evening is really not the time
:05:08. > :05:11.nor the place to return to the fray and insert terms and conditions
:05:12. > :05:14.to our negotiating condition, still less to force the Government
:05:15. > :05:18.to make a unilateral move as regards the status of EU
:05:19. > :05:24.nationals in the UK. We will also campaign for an early
:05:25. > :05:27.resolution to the plight of those caught up in a legal Neverland not
:05:28. > :05:32.of their making, and we will continue to press the Government
:05:33. > :05:36.to move on this and to provide Albeit maybe by other,
:05:37. > :05:45.perhaps I should say imaginative, It is a very dangerous step
:05:46. > :05:50.towards the doctrine that the people's will
:05:51. > :05:56.must always prevail. My Lords, this is the doctrine
:05:57. > :06:00.which has always been favoured by Hitler, by Mussolini,
:06:01. > :06:06.by Stalin, by Erdogan It is denial of the
:06:07. > :06:11.essence of democracy. I hope the noble Lords
:06:12. > :06:15.of all parties and none will, on this occasion, pay attention
:06:16. > :06:18.to their conscience rather than their party whip and join us
:06:19. > :06:22.in the division lobby. For the Liberal Democrats
:06:23. > :06:25.to press this matter is, in Parliamentary terms,
:06:26. > :06:28.I say nothing about any other consideration,
:06:29. > :06:30.but in Parliamentary terms, it is a completely
:06:31. > :06:38.pointless gesture. They have voted, content
:06:39. > :06:47.is 135, not contents 274. They have voted, contents
:06:48. > :06:49.135, not contents 274. Peers rejecting an attempt
:06:50. > :06:58.to re-introduce an amendment which would have protected
:06:59. > :07:00.the rights of EU Nationals Now Theresa May is due to trigger
:07:01. > :07:07.Article 50 by the END of the month. END "In capitals", as the Number Ten
:07:08. > :07:09.spokesman said yesterday. European Council president
:07:10. > :07:12.Donald Tusk has said he would need just 48 hours to respond to the UK
:07:13. > :07:16.with "draft guidelines Tusk has also said an extraordinary
:07:17. > :07:23.meeting of the EU27, that's all the EU countries
:07:24. > :07:27.minus Britain, will take place in April, or possibly May,
:07:28. > :07:30.where European leaders will decide a guideline for the
:07:31. > :07:34.negotiating mandate. Only once the mandate is agreed will
:07:35. > :07:38.the official negotiations begin, probably sometime in June or July,
:07:39. > :07:41.with citizen's rights and the Brexit divorce bill likely
:07:42. > :07:46.to be top priorities. Meanwhile in the UK the government
:07:47. > :07:50.must jump some domestic hurdles A 'great repeal bill' to revoke
:07:51. > :07:54.the European Communities Act 1972 and incorporate EU law into domestic
:07:55. > :07:58.law wherever possible, is expected Reports this morning suggests
:07:59. > :08:06.government departments have reportedly requested a further 13
:08:07. > :08:10.bills to cover areas that they believe some changes
:08:11. > :08:13.cannot be wrapped in under the great repeal bill, including
:08:14. > :08:16.on immigration, agriculture, Back in Brussels both sides need
:08:17. > :08:22.to reach an agreement by October 2018, leaving enough time for the UK
:08:23. > :08:26.and European Parliaments to sign off If parliaments don't agree
:08:27. > :08:32.on the deal, or if the negotiating teams reach a stalemate
:08:33. > :08:35.on the continent there is a chance that the UK
:08:36. > :08:40.could crash out of the EU. We're joined now by the Conservative
:08:41. > :08:55.MP, Theresa Villiers. Welcome pack to the Daily Politics.
:08:56. > :08:58.What price do you think the British public should accept for the
:08:59. > :09:07.so-called divorce settlement Bill? The commission is saying 60 billion
:09:08. > :09:11.pounds. What price would be acceptable? I don't think we will be
:09:12. > :09:15.legally obliged to pay anything. There may be a case to make some
:09:16. > :09:25.payments in relation to programmes we might want to take part in like
:09:26. > :09:29.some of the scientific programmes and the Justice. But this is the
:09:30. > :09:32.divorce settlement in terms of pensions and deficit payments, what
:09:33. > :09:38.price do you think will be acceptable. There is no doubt the
:09:39. > :09:43.chief negotiator is going to accept nothing? Arguably, they probably owe
:09:44. > :09:48.us about 9 billion in relation to the European investment bank. We
:09:49. > :09:53.need to be pragmatic and open to compromise. I don't believe paying
:09:54. > :09:58.significant sums into the EU budget on an ongoing basis is defensible.
:09:59. > :10:01.We need to see those big payments come to a halt. You are talking
:10:02. > :10:07.about an ongoing basis looking to the future. The commission have a
:10:08. > :10:11.stronger bargaining hand, the UK will need a divorce settlement in
:10:12. > :10:15.order for the negotiation on trade to go ahead of the future
:10:16. > :10:21.relationship between the UK and the EU can be decided. Let's park on
:10:22. > :10:27.going payments, but look at what you would be happy to pay just to
:10:28. > :10:30.extract the UK from the EU before negotiating trade relationship?
:10:31. > :10:34.Normally when you leave the club, you don't pay a charge in relation
:10:35. > :10:39.to its assets or liabilities. We could have an argument with them
:10:40. > :10:43.that there are significant asset we are owed apart. I wouldn't be
:10:44. > :10:48.comfortable with paying any significant sum on departure from
:10:49. > :10:53.the EU. Do you agree, we shouldn't have to pay anything at all, in fact
:10:54. > :10:57.they owe us some money? On the 23rd of June, there was nothing in the
:10:58. > :11:01.ballot paper to say what the vote meant and nine months later we still
:11:02. > :11:06.haven't got the first clue as to what Brexit means. The government
:11:07. > :11:10.has refused every attempt to define what the post Brexit arrangements
:11:11. > :11:15.should be and it is going into this, I don't know what. If it thinks it
:11:16. > :11:19.is going to get a better trading relationship with the European Union
:11:20. > :11:23.for less money than it costs at the minute, it is kidding itself. It is
:11:24. > :11:29.pie in the sky and it will not happen. Do you agree we are no
:11:30. > :11:33.clearer now than we were on the 23rd of June that what Brexit would look
:11:34. > :11:38.like? I think we are much clearer now, it is clear we will be leaving
:11:39. > :11:41.the single market because that is only how we regain control of making
:11:42. > :11:51.our own laws and controlling our borders. We want an independent
:11:52. > :11:56.sovereign working with its European partners. It is not clear that
:11:57. > :11:59.leaving the single market is a disaster for the European kingdom.
:12:00. > :12:03.But we do now know the government would like to leave the single
:12:04. > :12:07.market and probably the same for the customs union, perhaps with some
:12:08. > :12:11.exemptions? That is a clear position, you may not agree with it.
:12:12. > :12:16.Even though that wasn't put before the people on the 23rd of June last
:12:17. > :12:20.year. Many people campaigning to leave the EU said explicitly it did
:12:21. > :12:30.not mean leaving the single market. But now there is a hard, right wing
:12:31. > :12:32.extreme interpretation of what Brexit means. The only body that
:12:33. > :12:34.stands between the government and that interpretation is Parliament.
:12:35. > :12:40.Parliament has been dismissed at every attempt it has made to qualify
:12:41. > :12:44.it, it has been voted down. I agreed with Nick Clegg, it is a sign of
:12:45. > :12:48.government weakness and not strength. I don't think the
:12:49. > :12:53.government knows where it is going and what the outcome will be. It is
:12:54. > :12:57.true to say Parliament is being sidelined in so far as having any
:12:58. > :13:03.meaningful vote. The voter will be on the deal put before them if there
:13:04. > :13:07.is one, or no Deal at all. Between the period of now, that being put to
:13:08. > :13:12.Parliament, there will be no role for Parliament in changing the
:13:13. > :13:16.course of Brexit? There will be a huge role for Parliament with the
:13:17. > :13:21.repeal bill. They different votes on different things? What Parliament
:13:22. > :13:27.will have the opportunity to do is make our own decisions on huge areas
:13:28. > :13:32.of policy because they were out of bounds before. These are the issues
:13:33. > :13:37.our constituents care about. For the first time, we will regain control
:13:38. > :13:40.over animal welfare rules, we may want to pass tougher rules than the
:13:41. > :13:46.EU would permit it. Is that why you wanted to leave the EU so you cook
:13:47. > :13:50.pasta for rules on animal welfare? It was part of why I wanted to leave
:13:51. > :13:54.because I think it is in our interest to take decisions in our
:13:55. > :13:59.own laws and our own Parliament on issues like animal welfare, where we
:14:00. > :14:04.in this country care very greatly about these things. What other areas
:14:05. > :14:08.are you interested in changing and, once EU law is changed to UK law,
:14:09. > :14:14.there will be a process of deciding which one you want to keep, which
:14:15. > :14:17.one will you get rid of? We need to reform the way agriculture is
:14:18. > :14:22.regulated and the way we support farmers. We need to continue those
:14:23. > :14:27.financial payments. In the EU, they have come with absolutely huge
:14:28. > :14:31.amounts of regulation, some of which hasn't been helpful at all. I think
:14:32. > :14:46.we need to reform the way we look at farming in this country.
:14:47. > :14:55.How would you feel about the UK crashing out, to use the term, of
:14:56. > :15:00.the EU without a deal? It would be a disaster, which is why, and I know
:15:01. > :15:04.we are discussing it later, we have come to the view in Scotland we need
:15:05. > :15:08.to go back to the Scottish people and ask their view. To take
:15:09. > :15:12.agriculture and fishery, some people in Scotland voted to leave the
:15:13. > :15:16.European Union, a big majority didn't, but some did because they
:15:17. > :15:20.believe somehow it would return control of Scottish agriculture and
:15:21. > :15:23.Scottish fisheries to Scotland. Despite many attempts to press the
:15:24. > :15:28.British government for a commitment, none has been given and there is now
:15:29. > :15:29.a suspicion that what it means is repatriation of powers from Brussels
:15:30. > :15:47.will mean they go to Westminster, rather than
:15:48. > :15:49.Scotland. This is an opportunity for decentralisation, I accept. Brexit
:15:50. > :15:52.could be that. You would think by now they would have published a raft
:15:53. > :15:53.of proposals of what new powers will be going to the Scottish Parliament
:15:54. > :15:56.as a result of Brexit. So, yesterday, Nicola Sturgeon told
:15:57. > :15:58.a press conference that, with the UK on the verge of Brexit,
:15:59. > :16:01.she wants a second referendum on Scottish independence to take
:16:02. > :16:04.place before the spring of 2019 - and she'll ask the
:16:05. > :16:06.Scottish Parliament A new poll would need the approval
:16:07. > :16:10.of MPs in Westminster too and therefore the support
:16:11. > :16:12.of the Government. Let's talk to our political
:16:13. > :16:19.correspondent, John Pienaar. What is the Prime Minister going to
:16:20. > :16:22.do next, John? At the moment, it feels a bit like one of those tens
:16:23. > :16:26.showdowns in a spaghetti western, you know there was a gunfight coming
:16:27. > :16:31.but no one seems in any hurry to draw. Nicola Sturgeon once a
:16:32. > :16:37.referendum, but not yet, she wants to have a clearer view of Britain's
:16:38. > :16:41.future outside European Union. Theresa May will look at this
:16:42. > :16:44.referendum but in her own good time. It was very clear from the
:16:45. > :16:48.statements put out yesterday by Number Ten that they see a
:16:49. > :16:51.referendum, if there has to be one, as best coming after Britain leaves
:16:52. > :16:56.the European Union and in that way, presenting the Scottish voter with
:16:57. > :17:00.the more, as they see it, an attractive choice of leaving the
:17:01. > :17:05.United Kingdom at the same time as going away from the European Union.
:17:06. > :17:08.Will Theresa May make our plans plainer? You would imagine but when,
:17:09. > :17:13.after the Scottish Parliament take their decision to push that the
:17:14. > :17:17.referendum. Because the SNP will argue that if they are blocked in
:17:18. > :17:21.any way, or if Westminster is seen to be blocking a second independence
:17:22. > :17:25.referendum, if the Scottish Parliament passes it through, that
:17:26. > :17:29.will pile up votes for independence. That will be the calculation.
:17:30. > :17:33.Theresa May, as the Prime Minister here at the Westminster Parliament,
:17:34. > :17:36.clearly know she has the constitutional, the legal by hand,
:17:37. > :17:39.you need Parliament here to agree to the referendum but the politics is
:17:40. > :17:44.more complicated than that and if Theresa May doesn't know that, she
:17:45. > :17:46.only has to ask David Cameron. He didn't want a referendum but the
:17:47. > :17:52.political reality was there had to be one. It is difficult to stand
:17:53. > :17:54.against the will of the Scottish parliament and politically
:17:55. > :17:58.impossible to stand against the will of the Scottish people in the weight
:17:59. > :18:02.of opinion is for a referendum. That is not the case yet so we are still
:18:03. > :18:05.in the position of tugging and pulling Scottish opinion, along tug
:18:06. > :18:09.of war starting now, to shift the balance in favour of a referendum
:18:10. > :18:11.and subsequently, if you are Nicola Sturgeon, to tilt those opinion
:18:12. > :18:13.polls are you have a better chance of winning the referendum itself.
:18:14. > :18:18.by the Scottish Labour Leader, Kezia Dugdale.
:18:19. > :18:23.Welcome to the Daily Politics. Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday that
:18:24. > :18:26.one of the reasons she is calling this referendum is the collapse of
:18:27. > :18:31.the Labour Party and the prospect of the Conservatives rule in Scotland
:18:32. > :18:34.from Westminster until 2030. So do the current Labour leaders like you
:18:35. > :18:37.and Jeremy Corbyn have to take some responsibility for the fact that
:18:38. > :18:44.Scotland their faces the possibility of another referendum? It is
:18:45. > :18:47.laughable that the idea of Nicola Sturgeon was scrambling around for
:18:48. > :18:50.reasons for another referendum. This is all she wanted, it is what her
:18:51. > :18:54.political life has been about. I understand there are people who are
:18:55. > :18:57.angry at the Tories, angry at Brexit and think there is justification for
:18:58. > :19:01.another independence referendum but what I would us people to focus on
:19:02. > :19:06.is the sheer harsh economic realities of the case for
:19:07. > :19:09.independence. There is no doubt that the case for independence, the
:19:10. > :19:14.economic case, is weaker now than it was two and a half years ago. And it
:19:15. > :19:18.was just two and a half years ago that we revisited this question, we
:19:19. > :19:23.talked about it for two and a half years, 85% of the population voted
:19:24. > :19:26.and they voted no largely because of those economic arguments around
:19:27. > :19:30.currency. That hasn't changed and if anything, it has got worse. You only
:19:31. > :19:34.have to look at the oil price for evidence. If the situation has got
:19:35. > :19:38.but much worse in the way you describe, economically, why did
:19:39. > :19:41.Jeremy Corbyn describe a second referendum on independence as
:19:42. > :19:43.absolutely fine? He says he has been misreported but we can listen to
:19:44. > :19:45.exactly what he did say. Well, a referendum is held and it's
:19:46. > :19:48.absolutely fine, it should be held. I don't think it's the job
:19:49. > :19:51.of Westminster or the Labour Party to prevent people holding
:19:52. > :19:52.a referendum. I do think we should set it
:19:53. > :19:56.in the context of the economic relationship with the rest
:19:57. > :19:59.of the UK, and the question of evolution of EU powers to English
:20:00. > :20:16.regions and to Scotland. What did you think when you have
:20:17. > :20:19.bad? I thought it was quite clumsy with his language, he would accept
:20:20. > :20:22.that insult but the reality is that later that day, he issued a very
:20:23. > :20:27.clear and strong statement to say not only was he opposed a second
:20:28. > :20:30.independence referendum but he was opposed to independence itself. When
:20:31. > :20:33.it comes to vote in the Scottish Parliament next Tuesday, Scottish
:20:34. > :20:38.Labour MSP is will do what the manifesto said we will do and oppose
:20:39. > :20:41.that referendum. But the reality is, the SNP and green votes mean that
:20:42. > :20:48.that is going to go through. When we look at the UK wide vote and the
:20:49. > :20:51.process around the section 30 order, it is Ruth Davison, leader of the
:20:52. > :20:54.Scottish Tories, who has been advising Theresa May for months that
:20:55. > :20:57.she shouldn't do anything to frustrate or block a second
:20:58. > :21:01.referendum. That is exactly what Jeremy was saying at the weekend and
:21:02. > :21:06.what I said several months ago. It is clumsy to say absolutely fine but
:21:07. > :21:09.let's be clear, Jeremy Corbyn is firmly against independence and the
:21:10. > :21:14.reason is he recognises it would mean terrible austerities in
:21:15. > :21:18.Scotland. We have Tory austerities at the moment but the gap between
:21:19. > :21:23.what Scotland races in its taxes and spend some public services will be a
:21:24. > :21:25.deficit of ?15 billion, that is less money for schools and hospitals and
:21:26. > :21:29.you will never see Jeremy Corbyn advocate that. Do you agree with
:21:30. > :21:33.Nicola Sturgeon that it would be wrong for the UK Parliament to block
:21:34. > :21:36.this referendum from happening altogether? I said several months
:21:37. > :21:40.ago that I don't think it is right for Westminster to frustrate the
:21:41. > :21:43.process. That doesn't mean that I can't be angry that we are being
:21:44. > :21:48.dragged back to a debate that many Scots want to leave behind. We are
:21:49. > :21:51.so divided as a nation, it was an incredibly divisive experience to
:21:52. > :21:55.add a half years ago and we are about to go through it all over
:21:56. > :21:59.again. It is not what the vast majority want, that is the evidence
:22:00. > :22:03.in the opinion polls. You can look at voting intentions and say it is
:22:04. > :22:06.quite close between the leave and remain sides but if you ask Scott if
:22:07. > :22:10.they want to go through this again, time and again you see a majority
:22:11. > :22:14.opposed to that. So you will be joining hands with Ruth Davison, the
:22:15. > :22:19.leader of the Conservative Party, and also Theresa May, because you
:22:20. > :22:21.all agree you shouldn't block this referendum from happening
:22:22. > :22:24.altogether, you can't change the vote in the Scottish parliament,
:22:25. > :22:31.there will be a boat and at Westminster again that you won't
:22:32. > :22:33.want to block going ahead, C must be joining forces with the
:22:34. > :22:38.Conservatives to put for the prounion case. I will put forward a
:22:39. > :22:40.very strong Labour case as to why we should remain part of the United
:22:41. > :22:46.Kingdom and if I can offer you an example, I just mentioned that
:22:47. > :22:50.deficit, that 15 billion pounds less that Scotland would have less for
:22:51. > :22:55.its services. You have Tommy Sheppard in the studio, a friend of
:22:56. > :22:58.mine and we represent a similar area, he represents Craigmillar, the
:22:59. > :23:05.back of the late one of the poorest areas of Scotland and it is the
:23:06. > :23:08.false people like Tommy the constituents that we will have a
:23:09. > :23:13.better welfare system and more money for schools and hospitals when they
:23:14. > :23:15.completely failed to address the reality that the case for
:23:16. > :23:19.independence economically has fallen apart. It is a blatant lie to the
:23:20. > :23:25.poorest in Scotland and it is time Tommy started to stop pushing it.
:23:26. > :23:31.Are you lying to your constituents? Of course not. She is trying to
:23:32. > :23:35.infer that Nicola Sturgeon will call a referendum every day of the week,
:23:36. > :23:39.issue gets the chance. It is only two and a half years...
:23:40. > :23:45.Once-in-a-lifetime, once in a generation! Let me just make this
:23:46. > :23:48.point. We are not in a situation of our own making. The reason why this
:23:49. > :23:52.is on the table is not because the people who lost the referendum in
:23:53. > :23:56.2014 don't accept the result, we did, the reason it is on the table
:23:57. > :23:59.is because the people who won the referendum had changed the deal.
:24:00. > :24:05.People voted for something in 2014 which is not going to exist any
:24:06. > :24:12.more. But there was UK wide referendum on EU membership. Not me,
:24:13. > :24:19.not Kezia Dugdale, Nicola Sturgeon, but the Scottish people themselves
:24:20. > :24:21.get a change in these -- wrote in the changed circumstances... Can you
:24:22. > :24:24.answer Kezia Dugdale's question on the economics, do you accept they
:24:25. > :24:31.are worse than they were this matter the late last time around? No, I
:24:32. > :24:38.don't. The oil price has gone down but Shazier wants to depend that the
:24:39. > :24:45.-- pretended that it was predicated last time on oil and gas. What was
:24:46. > :24:48.the SNP case? The SNP case was that there was a compelling argument for
:24:49. > :24:53.an independent Scotland to be a successful economic country and I
:24:54. > :24:58.think Kezia should look at the figures and understand them. Oil and
:24:59. > :25:02.gas would be a bonus. We are currently working, by the way, and
:25:03. > :25:05.we will come later in the year and present to people a compelling
:25:06. > :25:11.narrative as to how the economic case of Scotland stacks up. Kezia
:25:12. > :25:15.Dugdale, what do you say? I find that totally incredulous. What Tommy
:25:16. > :25:19.wasn't able to say was the white Paper was very clearly predicated on
:25:20. > :25:22.oil and for this financial year, it predicted ?11.8 billion worth of
:25:23. > :25:27.revenue coming from North Sea oil and gas. The reality is it is less
:25:28. > :25:31.than 1 billion. That is the gap in one year between what the SNP said
:25:32. > :25:34.we would get and the reality of what we would have. Tommy and I knocked
:25:35. > :25:38.the same streets and Dawson Craigmillar and he cannot possibly
:25:39. > :25:41.suggest that when he is knocking on those doors, the people behind them
:25:42. > :25:45.are asking first and foremost how we stay in the European Union, how we
:25:46. > :25:47.make sure we don't have the Euro or part of the Schengen Agreement.
:25:48. > :25:51.People want to know how they will have a better start in life, how we
:25:52. > :25:55.will eradicate the Child poverty that so many in the community he
:25:56. > :26:00.represents suffer from and he is selling alive. We will be faced with
:26:01. > :26:05.a ?15 billion deficit and he cannot escape that fact -- selling a lie.
:26:06. > :26:08.Just briefly before you go, you say the Westminster Parliament shouldn't
:26:09. > :26:12.block a second independence referendum going ahead. Should
:26:13. > :26:17.Theresa May block the timing, being before the Brexit negotiations are
:26:18. > :26:20.complete? That is very difficult to answer at this stage because I
:26:21. > :26:23.listen to the First Minister very closely yesterday talk about the
:26:24. > :26:27.need for clarity. That applies as much to her as it does to the Prime
:26:28. > :26:30.Minister, so at the moment, Nicola Sturgeon is asserting that if we
:26:31. > :26:35.were to have a referendum before we leave the European Union, Scotland
:26:36. > :26:39.would be able to stay and somehow inherit the UK's membership of the
:26:40. > :26:43.European Union. I have yet to see a single scrap of evidence that that
:26:44. > :26:47.is possible. Should Theresa May stop the referendum happening before
:26:48. > :26:51.Brexit negotiations are complete? I have said clearly on this programme
:26:52. > :26:55.already I don't think it is for any Westminster politician to
:26:56. > :26:56.frustrate... So the timing should be frustrated by Theresa May. Kezia
:26:57. > :26:57.Dugdale, thank you very much. Also in Edinburgh now for us is the
:26:58. > :27:00.Conservative MSP Adam Tomkins, who is the party's Constitution
:27:01. > :27:09.Spokesman. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Good
:27:10. > :27:12.to be here, thank you. Nicola Sturgeon said yesterday the Scottish
:27:13. > :27:17.Government's mandate for another referendum is beyond doubt, that is
:27:18. > :27:21.true, isn't it? I don't think it is remotely true. Our view is there is
:27:22. > :27:23.no justification for a second independence referendum, there is no
:27:24. > :27:28.need for a second referendum and there is no mandate for it either.
:27:29. > :27:32.The SNP put some lines in their manifesto about a second
:27:33. > :27:36.independence referendum for the last Holyrood elections in May and they
:27:37. > :27:39.promptly lost their majority. They did say very clearly in their
:27:40. > :27:42.manifesto that Scotland would hold another referendum in the event of
:27:43. > :27:47.Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will. They won that
:27:48. > :27:53.election so they have a mandate. You say they won the election, they lost
:27:54. > :27:56.their majority. In 2011, Alex Salmond won an overall majority of
:27:57. > :28:04.seats in Holyrood Parliament and in 2016, Nicola Sturgeon lost that. If
:28:05. > :28:07.you are a Government that is not a majority, you have no cast-iron
:28:08. > :28:11.mandate for anything, least of all a second secession referendum.
:28:12. > :28:15.Once-in-a-lifetime, once in a generation was going to be the last
:28:16. > :28:19.independence referendum. You lost the overall majority, there are not
:28:20. > :28:21.clear polls indicating the majority of Scottish people consistently
:28:22. > :28:27.would like a second referendum. Where is the mandate? Adam is wrong
:28:28. > :28:32.on the question of mandate, the SNP was elected on a manifesto is that
:28:33. > :28:38.said in circumstances such as these, we would have a second referendum or
:28:39. > :28:45.put opposition to the Scottish parliament. The SNP was elected with
:28:46. > :28:46.47% of the constituency vote, and increased vote share, and an
:28:47. > :28:51.increased number of votes and we know form a minority Government,
:28:52. > :28:54.just. There is clearly a majority position inside the Scottish
:28:55. > :28:58.parliament to have a second independence referendum unless the
:28:59. > :29:01.British Government refuses to respect the wishes of the Scottish
:29:02. > :29:06.people, differential Brexit arrangements in Scotland. This is
:29:07. > :29:11.something you and your Government has created and I think also,
:29:12. > :29:17.viewers outside Scotland ought to be aware that Adam's party the
:29:18. > :29:21.Conservatives and Kezia's party Labour combined represent about one
:29:22. > :29:26.third of the Scottish electorate. Let me put to Adam Tomkins the idea
:29:27. > :29:30.that there hasn't been any respect for the Scottish Government. On that
:29:31. > :29:34.idea of respecting the wishes of the Scottish Government and the timing
:29:35. > :29:39.of a second independence referendum, should Theresa May decide the timing
:29:40. > :29:43.of that poll? First of all on the question of respect, what has
:29:44. > :29:47.happened is the Scottish Government published a pretty complex paper in
:29:48. > :29:53.December in which it set out a variety of views about how it
:29:54. > :29:56.thought the Scottish Government thought Brexit should unfold going
:29:57. > :30:00.forward and what has happened to that paper is it has been discussed
:30:01. > :30:04.by the Prime Minister, discussed by the Cabinet, discussed by the joint
:30:05. > :30:07.ministerial committee, and, you know, the idea that Brexit is
:30:08. > :30:10.something which is being taken forward by the UK Government without
:30:11. > :30:15.involving the devolved administrations, not only in
:30:16. > :30:19.Scotland but also Wales and Northern Ireland, is simply untrue. Should
:30:20. > :30:24.Theresa May decide the timing? Should it be when the Prime Minister
:30:25. > :30:28.decides it should be, which would be after the negotiations are complete,
:30:29. > :30:29.possibly late 2019? Or should Nicola Sturgeon be allowed to choose it in
:30:30. > :30:40.the autumn of The starting point on this, there is
:30:41. > :30:46.no justification or mandate for a second independence referendum.
:30:47. > :30:52.Unless this reckless plan is endorsed, that is where things lie.
:30:53. > :30:55.What happened in the making of the 2014 referendum was there was a
:30:56. > :30:58.bilateral agreement, a formal agreement between the Scottish
:30:59. > :31:03.Government and the UK Government that agreed a number of the
:31:04. > :31:07.parameters for the independence referendum in 2014, including the
:31:08. > :31:12.question of timing. So the lesson to draw from that, the lesson of timing
:31:13. > :31:17.should not be in the unilateral demand in either the First Minister
:31:18. > :31:21.of Scotland or the Scottish Parliament, it needs to be agreed
:31:22. > :31:27.between both governments and both parliaments if we are to have a
:31:28. > :31:31.second independence referendum. Theresa May has gone into the
:31:32. > :31:36.chamber of the House of Commons. We are expecting her to give a
:31:37. > :31:40.statement which is about last week's European Council meeting. It is also
:31:41. > :31:44.her first appearance in the Commons since the Brexit bill passed its
:31:45. > :31:48.Parliamentary stages last night. We will go over there as soon as she
:31:49. > :31:51.stands up. But Tommy Sheppard, you are trying to win this referendum on
:31:52. > :31:57.the issue of Brexit and he wanted to happen before the UK leaves the EU.
:31:58. > :32:06.But if Scotland leaves the UK, it also leaves the EU, doesn't it? It
:32:07. > :32:09.is a choice of leaving one union or leaving Jo unions? We are trying to
:32:10. > :32:17.win this referendum on the question of respect. Adam is wrong in his
:32:18. > :32:24.description. You are holding a referendum on the issue of respect?
:32:25. > :32:32.We were told if we voted to stay with the European Union, we were
:32:33. > :32:35.told we would be part of the EU. A document was published called
:32:36. > :32:38.Scotland's place in Europe. It was produced by a government that
:32:39. > :32:41.believes in an independent Scotland and believes it should be part of
:32:42. > :32:48.the European Union, which argued for neither. A respected the Brexit
:32:49. > :32:56.decision. My question is, do you accept, if the referendum... Can I
:32:57. > :33:00.just be clear, in your mind if you hold a referendum before the Brexit
:33:01. > :33:06.negotiations are complete, you would be taking Scotland out of the UK,
:33:07. > :33:11.out of the union, but you would also be, in effect, leaving the EU.
:33:12. > :33:17.Nobody in the EU has said Scotland could remain part of the EU wants
:33:18. > :33:20.she leaves the UK? If Scotland were independent, we would want to
:33:21. > :33:25.negotiate membership of the European Union and that would involve looking
:33:26. > :33:28.at all of the arrangements. But it is crystal clear that if we wanted
:33:29. > :33:35.to do that, then we should signal our intention to do that before the
:33:36. > :33:39.Brexit negotiations are complete. Has anybody said Scotland could
:33:40. > :33:44.leave the UK and definitely stay in the EU? If you look at the range of
:33:45. > :33:49.political opinion in other European countries, you will find a different
:33:50. > :33:54.attitude than what we had in 2014. Which EU leader has said, yes, we
:33:55. > :34:05.would leave Scotland within the EU even if she leaves the UK? Quite a
:34:06. > :34:11.number. Who? A lot of politicians... Watt say does he have? I have tried
:34:12. > :34:15.to indicate the range of political opinion in Europe is changing
:34:16. > :34:19.towards this proposition. If you look at the European press this
:34:20. > :34:23.morning you will find a different description of what has just
:34:24. > :34:28.happened than you will get in the London press. Attitudes are changing
:34:29. > :34:32.and people realise in a post-Brexit scenario, the idea of an independent
:34:33. > :34:37.Scotland being part of the EU, is an attractive one. He has a point, why
:34:38. > :34:41.wouldn't the EU in the end, of course they will say no at the
:34:42. > :34:46.moment, particularly Spain because they have issues themselves are part
:34:47. > :34:50.of the country who would like to go independent, but EU leaders were
:34:51. > :34:56.also opposed the Brexit. The Scotland minus the UK would be a
:34:57. > :35:01.good thing? Yesterday the First Minister couldn't confirm an
:35:02. > :35:07.independent Scotland could seek full membership of the EU. She knows the
:35:08. > :35:12.people who voted to leave the European Union, including 400,000
:35:13. > :35:17.SNP supporters. The idea of an independent Scotland is necessary in
:35:18. > :35:22.order to preserve Scotland's current place in the European Union, which
:35:23. > :35:26.seems to be what Tommy Sheppard was just saying, is legally incorrect,
:35:27. > :35:30.it is constitutionally incoherent and is different to what his own
:35:31. > :35:37.leader and bass was saying yesterday. Would Scotland then apply
:35:38. > :35:41.to be a full member of the EU? If Scotland were independently would
:35:42. > :35:46.commence negotiations on that basis. Adopting the euro? It is important
:35:47. > :35:51.to signal we would want to do that and moving towards independence
:35:52. > :35:56.before Article 50 negotiations are complete. The longer we wait, the
:35:57. > :36:01.harder the process would be. Can I just make it clear to Adam, a lot of
:36:02. > :36:05.people in Scotland voted to leave the European Union. The vast
:36:06. > :36:09.majority voted to stay, but some voted to leave because they were
:36:10. > :36:16.concerned about the European Union and concerned over agricultural
:36:17. > :36:21.stuff and fisheries. The Reges ship an independent Scotland have with...
:36:22. > :36:23.Let's go straight over to the House of Commons today,
:36:24. > :36:30.where Theresa May is making statement - it's ostensibly
:36:31. > :36:36.The summit began by re-electing Donald Tusk as president of the
:36:37. > :36:40.European Council. I welcomed this because we have a close working
:36:41. > :36:44.relationship with him and recognise the strong contribution he has made
:36:45. > :36:49.in office. In the main business of the Council we discuss the challenge
:36:50. > :36:51.of managing mass migration, the threat from organised crime and
:36:52. > :36:56.instability in the Western Balkans, and the measures needed to boost
:36:57. > :37:00.your's growth and competitiveness which remain important to us as we
:37:01. > :37:04.build a new relationship between the EU and the self-governing global
:37:05. > :37:08.Britain. In each case, we were able to show how Britain will continue to
:37:09. > :37:13.play a leading role in Europe, long after we have left the European
:37:14. > :37:16.Union. First, on migration, I welcomed the progress in
:37:17. > :37:21.implementing the action plan we agreed at the informal EU summit
:37:22. > :37:26.last month. This included Italy strengthening asylum processes and
:37:27. > :37:31.increasing returns and Greece are working to implement the EU Turkey
:37:32. > :37:34.deal where the UK is providing additional staff to start
:37:35. > :37:39.interviewing Iraqi, Afghan and Eritrea nationals. We argued we must
:37:40. > :37:47.do more to dismantle the people smuggling rings who profit from the
:37:48. > :37:51.migrant's misery. Mr Speaker, with coordinated and committed action, we
:37:52. > :37:55.can make a distance. Last month, an operation between our national crime
:37:56. > :38:00.agency and the Hellenic Coastguard led to the arrest of 19 members of
:38:01. > :38:05.an organised immigration crime group in Greece. As I have argued, we need
:38:06. > :38:11.a managed, controlled and global approach and that is exactly what
:38:12. > :38:14.this council agreed. We need to help ensure refugees claim asylum in the
:38:15. > :38:17.first safe country they reach and help those countries support the
:38:18. > :38:22.refugees so they don't have to make the perilous journey to Europe. We
:38:23. > :38:25.need a better approach to managing economic migration, one which
:38:26. > :38:30.recognises all countries have the right to control their borders.
:38:31. > :38:33.Engaging our African partners in this global approach will be crucial
:38:34. > :38:37.and this will be an important part of the discussions at the Somalia
:38:38. > :38:43.conference, which the UK will be hosting in London in May. Turning to
:38:44. > :38:47.the deteriorating situation in the Western Balkans, I made clear, my
:38:48. > :38:51.concerns about the risks this presents to the region and our wider
:38:52. > :38:55.collective security. Organised criminals and criminals are ready to
:38:56. > :39:02.exploit these vulnerabilities and we are seeing brazen interference by
:39:03. > :39:07.Russia and others. In light of the Montenegrin coup plot, I called on
:39:08. > :39:11.the council to do more to counter destabilising Russian campaigns and
:39:12. > :39:15.raise the visibility of the Western commitment to this region. The UK
:39:16. > :39:19.will lead the way. The Foreign Secretary will be visiting Russia in
:39:20. > :39:23.the coming weeks, where I expect him to set out our concerns about
:39:24. > :39:29.reports of Russian interference in the affairs of the government of
:39:30. > :39:32.Montenegro. We will provide strategic communications expertise
:39:33. > :39:37.to the EU institutions to counter this information campaigns in the
:39:38. > :39:40.region, and we will host the 2018 Western Balkans summit and in the
:39:41. > :39:46.run-up to that summit, we will enhance our security cooperation
:39:47. > :39:51.with Western Balkan partners on serious and organised crime,
:39:52. > :39:54.anti-corruption and cyber security. More broadly, I re-emphasised the
:39:55. > :40:00.importance the UK places are Nato as the bedrock of our collective
:40:01. > :40:04.defence. And I urged other member states to start investing more in
:40:05. > :40:10.line with Nato's target, so every country plays its part in sharing
:40:11. > :40:14.the burden. It is only by investing properly in our defence, we can
:40:15. > :40:18.ensure we are properly equipped to keep our people say. Turning to
:40:19. > :40:26.growth and competitiveness, I want to build a new relationship with the
:40:27. > :40:29.EU that will give our company is the maximum freedom to trade with and
:40:30. > :40:32.operate in the European market and allow European businesses to do the
:40:33. > :40:35.same here. So successful and competitive European market in the
:40:36. > :40:40.future will remain in our national interest. At this council I call for
:40:41. > :40:52.further steps to complete the single market and the digital single
:40:53. > :40:58.market. I also welcomed... I also welcomed the completion of the free
:40:59. > :41:02.trade agreement between the EU and Canada and pressed for an agreement
:41:03. > :41:14.with Japan in the coming months. For these agreements... Yes, these
:41:15. > :41:16.agreements will lay the foundation for our continued trading
:41:17. > :41:25.relationships with these countries as we leave the EU. At the same
:41:26. > :41:29.time, we will also seize the opportunity to forge our own trade
:41:30. > :41:33.deals and reach out beyond the borders of Europe to build
:41:34. > :41:37.relationships with old friends and new allies alike. This weekend
:41:38. > :41:42.renounced a two-day conference with the largest delegation to visit the
:41:43. > :41:47.UK, building on the ?5 billion of trade we already do with Qatar every
:41:48. > :41:50.year. We will also strengthen the unique and proud global
:41:51. > :41:54.relationships we have forged with the diverse and vibrant alliance of
:41:55. > :41:59.the Commonwealth, which is celebrated on Commonwealth Day
:42:00. > :42:02.yesterday. Finally, last night the bill on Article 50 successfully
:42:03. > :42:08.completed its passage through both houses are unchanged. It will now
:42:09. > :42:13.proceed to Royal assent in the coming days, so we remain on track
:42:14. > :42:16.with the timetable I set out six months ago. I will return to this
:42:17. > :42:21.House before the end of this month to notify when I have formally
:42:22. > :42:24.triggered Article 50 and begun the process through which the United
:42:25. > :42:28.Kingdom will leave the European Union. This will be a defining
:42:29. > :42:32.moment for our country, as we begin to forge a new relationship with
:42:33. > :42:39.Europe and a new role for ourselves in the world. We will be a strong,
:42:40. > :42:44.self-governing, global Britain with control once again over our borders
:42:45. > :42:48.and our laws. We will use this moment of opportunity to build a
:42:49. > :42:52.stronger economy and a fairer society, so we secure both the right
:42:53. > :42:59.deal for Britain and abroad and a better deal for ordinary working
:43:00. > :43:04.people at home. And, Mr Speaker, the new relationship with the EU that we
:43:05. > :43:08.negotiate, will work for the whole of the United Kingdom. That is why
:43:09. > :43:21.we have been working closely with the devolved administrations...
:43:22. > :43:25.Including the Scottish Government, listening to their proposals and
:43:26. > :43:31.recognising the many areas of common ground we have, such as protecting
:43:32. > :43:35.workers' rights and our security from crime and terrorism. So this is
:43:36. > :43:46.not a moment to play politics or create uncertainty... It is a moment
:43:47. > :43:51.to bring our country together, to honour the will of the British
:43:52. > :43:55.people and to shape for them, are better, brighter future and a better
:43:56. > :44:04.Britain and I commend this statement to the House. Jeremy Corbyn. I would
:44:05. > :44:10.like to thank the Prime Minister for an advanced copy of this statement.
:44:11. > :44:14.The passing into law of the EU notification of withdrawal act marks
:44:15. > :44:19.an historic step. Later this month, the triggering of Article 50, a
:44:20. > :44:23.process that will ship this country's future. There is no doubt,
:44:24. > :44:29.that if the wrong decisions are made, we will pay the price for
:44:30. > :44:33.decades to come. So, now more than ever, Britain needs an inclusive
:44:34. > :44:41.government that listens and acts accordingly. However, all the signs
:44:42. > :44:44.are we have a complacent government, complacent with our economy,
:44:45. > :44:50.complacent with people's writes and complacent about the future of this
:44:51. > :44:55.country. I urged the Prime Minister to listen to the collective wisdom
:44:56. > :45:01.of this Parliament and to give this House the full opportunity to
:45:02. > :45:15.scrutinise the Article 50 deal with meaningful vote. The people's
:45:16. > :45:21.representative... and if we are to protect jobs and living standards
:45:22. > :45:26.and the future prosperity of this country... The Government needs to
:45:27. > :45:31.secure tariff free access to the European single market. The Prime
:45:32. > :45:35.Minister has already made the threat to our negotiating partners to turn
:45:36. > :45:39.Britain into a deregulated tax haven. Is that what she means by
:45:40. > :45:46.global Britain? When the Foreign Secretary says no deal with the EU
:45:47. > :45:53.would be perfectly OK, it simply isn't good enough. And far from
:45:54. > :45:58.taking back control, leaving Britain to World Trade Organisation rules
:45:59. > :46:01.would mean losing control, jobs and, frankly, losing out. So when the
:46:02. > :46:10.Prime Minister says a bad deal is better than no deal, led the be
:46:11. > :46:14.clear, no deal is a bad deal. -- let me be clear. Such a complacent
:46:15. > :46:21.strategy would punish business, hit jobs and devastate public services
:46:22. > :46:25.on which people rely. The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn they're
:46:26. > :46:28.responding to Theresa May, the Prime Minister, who has reported back to
:46:29. > :46:32.the House of Commons on her EU summit last week. She also
:46:33. > :46:37.underlined the fact that the EU notification of withdrawal bill,
:46:38. > :46:39.which passed through both houses of Parliament last night, will get the
:46:40. > :46:44.royal assent, in other words passed into law in the coming days and at
:46:45. > :46:48.that point, she will then fired the starting gun on starting two years
:46:49. > :46:51.of negotiations. In other words, she will trigger Article 50, certainly
:46:52. > :46:53.before the end of the month, which was the deadline she set herself.
:46:54. > :46:55.Tucked into the Budget documents last week was confirmation
:46:56. > :46:58.that the Government is pushing ahead with planned rises to the cost
:46:59. > :47:00.of applying for probate - the legal process of giving
:47:01. > :47:03.authority to distribute someone's estate after their death.
:47:04. > :47:06.But the sizable increases have caused an outcry amongst
:47:07. > :47:08.Conservative backbenchers, who labelled the changes
:47:09. > :47:11.a "stealth tax" during last week's Budget debates.
:47:12. > :47:16.Probate fees are currently capped at ?215 for estates worth over
:47:17. > :47:20.?5,000, unless there is no property involved.
:47:21. > :47:24.That is paid to the Probate Registry.
:47:25. > :47:27.But from May, a sliding scale of fees is being introduced,
:47:28. > :47:35.starting at ?300 for estates worth between ?50,000-?300,000.
:47:36. > :47:40.And rising to ?20,000 for estates worth over ?2million.
:47:41. > :47:42.And rising to ?20,000 for estates worth over ?2 million.
:47:43. > :47:44.Budget documents estimate that the changes will raise
:47:45. > :47:51.I'm joined now by the former Minister of State for Pensions,
:47:52. > :48:02.Is this a stealth tax, in your mind? It is a stealth tax and a death tax,
:48:03. > :48:08.they have rolled the two into one. The death tax was originally put
:48:09. > :48:11.forward, suggested under Gordon Brown's Government but criticised by
:48:12. > :48:14.the Conservatives at the time. We have had a number of death tax is
:48:15. > :48:18.being proposed, particularly to raise money for example the social
:48:19. > :48:22.care. Suddenly we are finding that this one has been snuck in by the
:48:23. > :48:26.back door and there is no question that this is a tax revenue raising
:48:27. > :48:32.measure, because the Ministry of Justice has said that the probate
:48:33. > :48:36.registry is self funding, so the current fees cover the costs of
:48:37. > :48:41.finding probate. What they are trying to do is raise an extra ?300
:48:42. > :48:45.million to subsidise other parts of the court system. The Government
:48:46. > :48:49.argues that this sliding scale makes payments fairer and no state will
:48:50. > :48:57.pay more than 1% of its value. Why isn't that better? -- no estate. We
:48:58. > :49:00.only fixed the costs of probate in 2015 and suddenly we are coming
:49:01. > :49:07.along with this massive increase in taxes. Who gets the massive increase
:49:08. > :49:12.in taxes? 58% of all estates in England and Wales will pay nothing.
:49:13. > :49:15.Yes, that those who do pay and particularly people in the
:49:16. > :49:19.south-east, who have any kind of property, if you have any property
:49:20. > :49:27.there you will have do face this potential tax, but in terms of the
:49:28. > :49:31.way it works, with probate, you have to pay the money upfront. So if you
:49:32. > :49:35.have an executor of your well, maybe a friend or someone who isn't a
:49:36. > :49:39.beneficiary of the will, they will have to find money in their own
:49:40. > :49:45.pocket to pay perhaps ?20,000 before they can release the assets. So if
:49:46. > :49:49.you haven't got cash, if you have got property and shares in your
:49:50. > :49:53.estate, and a lot of people do, where is the money going to come
:49:54. > :49:58.from? Choosing those sort of increases are there? They are very
:49:59. > :50:02.high, admittedly, on the better of Estates, do you think it is fair?
:50:03. > :50:06.They don't apply in Scotland but personally I don't have a problem
:50:07. > :50:10.with it. I think the people really clobbered by it will be people with
:50:11. > :50:14.estates more than ?1 million and those are the very people who will
:50:15. > :50:18.benefit from George Osborne's changes to inheritance tax, which
:50:19. > :50:21.made the 26,000 richest households in the country even richer. So I am
:50:22. > :50:25.guessing the Government is doing this as a way to compensate the
:50:26. > :50:29.difficult as it will have by not getting inheritance tax it had
:50:30. > :50:33.planned for. I think if we are going to do something like this, it should
:50:34. > :50:37.be done fairly and properly. The sudden Draconian increases in the
:50:38. > :50:43.level of tax, and from a practical perspective, expecting executors to
:50:44. > :50:47.find the money when there is no money to use, they may have to take
:50:48. > :50:52.out a personal loan or they can't get the probate. Jee think there
:50:53. > :50:58.will be a backlash? I suspect so, to maybe phase it in. I think it makes
:50:59. > :51:02.sense to have some kind of tax on estates but it has to be done
:51:03. > :51:08.fairly, with proper consultation. 97% of people who responded to this
:51:09. > :51:11.consultation were against it. We did ask the Ministry of Justice for an
:51:12. > :51:13.interview that no minister was available.
:51:14. > :51:16.Now, our guest of the day Tommy Sheppard is almost as famous
:51:17. > :51:18.for being a politician as he is for founding The Stand
:51:19. > :51:20.comedy clubs in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Newcastle.
:51:21. > :51:23.But has the impresario recognised any comic talent on the benches
:51:24. > :51:26.Let's have a look at some of his political colleagues
:51:27. > :51:29.attempting to make us laugh, starting with Tony Blair making
:51:30. > :51:31.light of his wife Cherie's spat with Gordon Brown.
:51:32. > :51:34.And - just by way of warning - there's some flash photography.
:51:35. > :51:49.Well, at least I don't have to worry
:51:50. > :51:51.about her running off with the bloke next door.
:51:52. > :52:00.The Shadow Chancellor literally stood at the dispatch box and read
:52:01. > :52:16.Oh, look, it's his personal signed copy.
:52:17. > :52:18.The problem is, half the Shadow Cabinet have been
:52:19. > :52:25.If you are a passionate Yes Campaigner, by definition
:52:26. > :52:27.therefore you are also very intelligent, in my view...
:52:28. > :52:32.I am the Minister of State for Children and Families
:52:33. > :52:37.Now that's a bit of a mouthful, but I want to assure you that
:52:38. > :52:39.however much he begs, neither Lynne Featherstone
:52:40. > :52:45.or myself will let George Osborne call us Louise.
:52:46. > :52:54.Do you know, you guys are really slow.
:52:55. > :53:02.His Shadow Chancellor was asked on the television,
:53:03. > :53:05.could he think of one single business leader?
:53:06. > :53:09.Do you know what he said, Mr Speaker?
:53:10. > :53:15.Mr Speaker, Bill somebody is not a person, "bill
:53:16. > :53:22.We are producing more varieties of cheese than the French.
:53:23. > :53:43."My Government will make it easier for people
:53:44. > :53:57.It must be the first instance of something being put
:53:58. > :54:01.in the Queen's Speech entirely as a joke.
:54:02. > :54:05.But if he's finding it so difficult,
:54:06. > :54:09.Why doesn't he split the job of Mayor of London?
:54:10. > :54:11.The former Health Secretary can run as his day mayor
:54:12. > :54:13.and the Honourable Member for Brent East
:54:14. > :54:25.I'm joined now in the studio by Gyles Brandreth,
:54:26. > :54:28.who has spent time on the green benches as a Conservative MP,
:54:29. > :54:35.but is now more likely to be found in the green room of a TV studio.
:54:36. > :54:44.Or indeed at the stand in Edinburgh, where I go quite regularly. To
:54:45. > :54:52.perform, or to watch? To perform. You allow him to perform? Of course,
:54:53. > :54:56.we have Eddie is next week. William Hague is there one of the
:54:57. > :55:00.highest-paid speakers on the circuit because Hezbollah. David Cameron two
:55:01. > :55:04.is still very amusing. I came across the other day and asked him the all
:55:05. > :55:10.that has been happening whether he sleeps at night out and he replied,
:55:11. > :55:14.immediately, "Yes, I sleep like a baby. Every hour, I wake up crying
:55:15. > :55:21.mummy, mummy!" Maybe shouldn't have shared that. You should definitely
:55:22. > :55:27.share everything. It works when it is well timed and when it rings a
:55:28. > :55:30.bell. Vince Cable's wonderful line to Gordon Brown, within three days
:55:31. > :55:36.he has gone from Stalin to Mr Bean was a joy to listen to. Why did that
:55:37. > :55:40.work? Because it was of the moment and it rang true. When it feels
:55:41. > :55:45.real, it works. But you have to realise why these guys do it in
:55:46. > :55:48.Parliament. It is on to appeal to us viewers. It is to boost the morale
:55:49. > :55:53.within the House, to show you are confident and competent. What
:55:54. > :56:00.happens when it falls flat and the jokes don't work? It is awful, that
:56:01. > :56:03.moment, the Tumbleweed moment. I had one, almost the first question I
:56:04. > :56:08.asked, I was set up for it by the whips. The whips give what they
:56:09. > :56:13.think of funny questions to obliging backbench MPs and the present Brexit
:56:14. > :56:16.secretary, David Davis, who was a very frightening person in those
:56:17. > :56:20.days in the whips office, I nicknamed him DD of the SS, he gave
:56:21. > :56:26.me this question which I duly performed and it died on its feet, I
:56:27. > :56:29.died on my feet. It is terrifying. Better not to do it than to get it
:56:30. > :56:34.wrong. Theresa May this morning could have, there was a moment when
:56:35. > :56:37.she should have done a put down to the opposition and she chose not to
:56:38. > :56:43.because she isn't very good at them. She couldn't think of them. She's
:56:44. > :56:49.not... How do you find the chamber parliament, is it a funny place? I
:56:50. > :56:56.don't been funny strange. I have never once tried to make a joke. Why
:56:57. > :56:59.not? You are the comedian. No, I hire comedians to entertain other
:57:00. > :57:04.people. One reason I do that is because I have never been any good
:57:05. > :57:07.jokes. I think when it works it can be brilliant but when it is forced
:57:08. > :57:11.and scripted, quite often it falls flat. If people are doing it
:57:12. > :57:16.off-the-cuff and in an improvised way, it can work and be of the
:57:17. > :57:20.moment. It is risky and I think Mrs May is wise to pull back. She has
:57:21. > :57:26.made jokes, one unfortunate one at the expense of an MP named Mr bone
:57:27. > :57:30.that didn't quite come off. I think people are trying to be funny and
:57:31. > :57:33.usually they end up not being. What about the Tony Blair joke about not
:57:34. > :57:40.running off with the bloke next door. It was forced. Did you not
:57:41. > :57:46.think it was funny? Speaking I thought it was funny. It rang true.
:57:47. > :57:52.And it is a matter of confidence of doing it, as sometimes Theresa May
:57:53. > :57:57.get away with somewhat lame lines, because the people behind wanted to
:57:58. > :58:03.work. Is it about timing? You saw that in the clips. It is also about
:58:04. > :58:07.perspective. I have been rereading the speeches of George W. Bush, who
:58:08. > :58:15.I thought was appalling. Why are you reading them? While I was very
:58:16. > :58:20.interested in a man who said, the French don't have a word for
:58:21. > :58:22.entrepreneur. In retrospect, Bush was Cicero combined with Martin
:58:23. > :58:30.Luther King and a touch of Jack Benny. What a concoction. But a
:58:31. > :58:33.great time for satire. Indeed, and thankfully, satire is coming back in
:58:34. > :58:38.a big way, which is good entertainment. Is Nicola Sturgeon
:58:39. > :58:42.good jokes? I don't think she's a natural comedian, she takes itself
:58:43. > :58:46.seriously. Ruth Davidson is stronger on the jokes. I am not good on the
:58:47. > :58:51.jokes but will say goodbye at this point, thank you to the guests. The
:58:52. > :58:52.one o'clock News is starting on BBC One and I will be back tomorrow for
:58:53. > :59:08.Prime Minister's Questions. Goodbye. It took us once to get through
:59:09. > :59:13.the novel Anna Karenina. It was used to help my friend
:59:14. > :59:17.with depression,