:00:00. > :00:09.This is the scene at Westminster this afternoon.
:00:10. > :00:11.The heart of London, usually alive with people, remains
:00:12. > :00:51.in lockdown after yesterday's deadly terror attack.
:00:52. > :00:54.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:55. > :01:00.We'll be dedicating the whole programme to yesterday's terror
:01:01. > :01:02.attack in which three people were killed and at
:01:03. > :01:04.least 40 others injured, some of them critically.
:01:05. > :01:07.The attacker was also shot and killed by armed police.
:01:08. > :01:10.Flags are flying at half mast and a one minute's silence has been
:01:11. > :01:14.observed in the House of Commons and around Whitehall.
:01:15. > :01:16.Otherwise, Parliamentary business has resumed as normal this morning.
:01:17. > :01:18.The Prime Minister Theresa May has made a statement
:01:19. > :01:25.She told MPs, "We will never waver in the face of terrorism."
:01:26. > :01:29.She also confirmed that the suspect in the attack was British born,
:01:30. > :01:32.had previously been investigated by MI5, but as a peripheral figure,
:01:33. > :01:38.and was "not part of the current intelligence picture."
:01:39. > :01:41.Two of the victims have been named as Police Constable Keith
:01:42. > :01:49.PC Palmer died after being stabbed outside the Houses of Parliament.
:01:50. > :01:52.Mrs Frade, a college worker, died after being struck
:01:53. > :02:01.She was on her way to pick up her two
:02:02. > :02:14.Armed police have carried out raids at addresses in Birmingham and
:02:15. > :02:17.London. Scotland Yard says eight people have been arrested.
:02:18. > :02:19.With us for the whole of the programme today
:02:20. > :02:22.are the former Conservative party leader Iain Duncan Smith and Shadow
:02:23. > :02:31.Emily, where were you when this was unfolding? I had just come down the
:02:32. > :02:35.escalator and I was at the bottom part of the square, where the
:02:36. > :02:41.shooting took place. I heard the shooting and I saw lights flashing
:02:42. > :02:45.as the shooting happened. It was obviously magnified, the sound was
:02:46. > :02:47.magnified because we were in the corridor. People turned and were
:02:48. > :02:52.running back towards me. The police started saying we should go in the
:02:53. > :02:56.opposite direction. I went to portcullis house. The more modern
:02:57. > :03:03.building, across the road from Big Ben? You go across the road. I went
:03:04. > :03:06.up the escalator into a big atrium. There were a lot of people there. I
:03:07. > :03:12.started to worry about that. I also thought there was a shot outside, so
:03:13. > :03:19.I thought somebody might be shooting outside and somebody in the
:03:20. > :03:25.building, coming down the back. I stood behind a pillar, I was with a
:03:26. > :03:31.young MP, who was very jittery and have lost one of her friends. We
:03:32. > :03:34.found him, and had a moment of laughter. I don't get on with him
:03:35. > :03:38.very well, I said I was pleased to see him and he said he didn't think
:03:39. > :03:43.he would hear me say that. We decided the best thing to do was not
:03:44. > :03:51.to stay there, because if there was a gunman it would be best for people
:03:52. > :03:54.to scatter. We barricaded us into an office, in Portcullis House. That
:03:55. > :04:00.was locked down as well? Then I went to my office to be with my staff.
:04:01. > :04:04.Iain Duncan Smith, what were you doing? I had just come across the
:04:05. > :04:09.road, the division was on and I was coming to see somebody at lunch. The
:04:10. > :04:15.gates, when a division is on, were open. I went straight through. The
:04:16. > :04:18.same gate the attacker came through? Yes, I literally walked past a
:04:19. > :04:23.police officer, went straight past him at the gate. He said, quick, go
:04:24. > :04:27.in that way, it is quicker. I went down and got into the division
:04:28. > :04:33.lobby, out the other side. I was going up the corridor, there was
:04:34. > :04:36.bustling chaos all of a sudden, something was going on. It turned
:04:37. > :04:40.out the Prime Minister had been rushed away out the back of the
:04:41. > :04:44.lobby. I didn't think much about it and headed to the tearoom and my
:04:45. > :04:47.office. We didn't know much about what was going on. Suddenly I saw
:04:48. > :04:52.the sitting was suspended. I was going to get notes because I was
:04:53. > :04:56.going to take part in the debate. Sitting was suspended, I thought,
:04:57. > :05:00.what the hell is going on? The speakers do not work very well, I
:05:01. > :05:04.could not work it out. Then suddenly was banging on doors, get out, they
:05:05. > :05:10.cleared everybody into the central lobby. There are no windows there?
:05:11. > :05:13.That was the idea. Eventually, nobody knew what was happening and
:05:14. > :05:21.we shuffled through the Westminster Hall. The oldest part? Exactly, it
:05:22. > :05:26.is pretty cold, but there we were. And we stood there until just before
:05:27. > :05:30.eight o'clock. You were in Parliament when this was going on? I
:05:31. > :05:34.spent quite a few hours in the same part of parliament as Iain Duncan
:05:35. > :05:38.Smith. Where Emily was standing, the edge of Portcullis House, I had just
:05:39. > :05:45.left. The division Bell had gone, I was with a friend, we walked through
:05:46. > :05:49.the bottom of the stairs, where the stabbing and shooting took place. We
:05:50. > :05:52.heard the gunshots. For a moment, I didn't know what it was. Despite the
:05:53. > :05:56.fact we had been told something like this would happen, it was still a
:05:57. > :06:00.shock. The gunshots were still behind us, back in the square. We
:06:01. > :06:04.saw armoured police running towards the danger, telling us to run away
:06:05. > :06:08.from it. Which we did. They, of course, ran straight to the scene of
:06:09. > :06:13.where Keith Palmer, the police officer, had lost his life been
:06:14. > :06:18.stabbed. We were either end of the corridor? Yes. These are people we
:06:19. > :06:25.see on a daily basis, people we say hello to. The armed police ushered
:06:26. > :06:28.us in, there were scores of people, hundreds, by the time we got to the
:06:29. > :06:33.Central lobby. Parliamentarians, old, young, schoolchildren.
:06:34. > :06:36.Everybody was locked down. The guards with the big rifles, running
:06:37. > :06:40.through. They did not know at that point whether somebody was loose,
:06:41. > :06:43.armed, in the building. As Iain Duncan Smith said, they didn't want
:06:44. > :06:47.us near any class because of the fear of an explosion. We stayed
:06:48. > :06:48.there, moved to the Central Lobby and five hours later the evacuation
:06:49. > :06:49.started. Earlier this morning,
:06:50. > :07:04.the Prime Minister Theresa May gave Mr Speaker, yesterday an act of
:07:05. > :07:11.terrorism tried to silence our democracy. But today we meet as
:07:12. > :07:16.normal, as generations have done before us, and as future generations
:07:17. > :07:21.will continue to do, to deliver a simple message. We are not afraid.
:07:22. > :07:29.Our resolve will never waver in the face of terrorism. We meet here, in
:07:30. > :07:34.the oldest of all parliaments, because we know that democracy and
:07:35. > :07:39.the values it entails will always prevail. Those values, free speech,
:07:40. > :07:45.liberty, human rights and the rule of law, are embodied here in this
:07:46. > :07:51.place. But they are shared by free people around the world. A terrorist
:07:52. > :07:55.came to the place where people of all nationalities and cultures
:07:56. > :08:01.gathered to celebrate what it means to be free. He took out his rage
:08:02. > :08:08.indiscriminately, against innocent men, women and children. Mr Speaker,
:08:09. > :08:12.this was an attack on free people everywhere. And a half of the
:08:13. > :08:15.British people, I would like to thank our friends and allies around
:08:16. > :08:23.the world who have made it clear that they stand with us at this
:08:24. > :08:36.time. What happened on the streets of Westminster yesterday afternoon
:08:37. > :08:39.second -- sickened us all. At the moment, while there is an
:08:40. > :08:44.investigation, there are limits on what I can say. But let me set out
:08:45. > :08:49.what I can tell the house. At approximately 2:40pm yesterday, a
:08:50. > :08:52.single attacker drove his vehicle at speed into innocent pedestrians
:08:53. > :08:59.crossing Westminster Bridge, killing two people and injuring around 40
:09:00. > :09:03.more. In addition to 12 Britons admitted to hospital, we know that
:09:04. > :09:13.the victims include three French children, two Romanians, four South
:09:14. > :09:19.Koreans, one German, one Pole, one Irish, one Chinese, one Italian, one
:09:20. > :09:24.American and two Greeks. We are in close contact with the governments
:09:25. > :09:28.of the countries affected. The injured also included three police
:09:29. > :09:31.officers, who were returning from an event to recognise their bravery.
:09:32. > :09:37.Two of those three remain in a serious condition. Mr Speaker, the
:09:38. > :09:40.attacker then left the vehicle and approached a police officer at
:09:41. > :09:45.carriage Gates, attacking that officer with a large knife, before
:09:46. > :09:50.he was shot dead by an armed police officer. Tragically, as the house
:09:51. > :09:57.will know, 48-year-old PC Keith Palmer was killed. PC Palmer had
:09:58. > :10:03.devoted his life to the service of his country. He had been a member of
:10:04. > :10:11.the Parliamentary and diplomatic protection command for 15 years, and
:10:12. > :10:14.a soldier in the Royal Artillery before that. He was a father and
:10:15. > :10:22.husband, killed doing a job he loved. He was every inch a hero and
:10:23. > :10:27.his actions will never be forgotten. The whole house will join me in
:10:28. > :10:30.sending our deepest condolences to his family and the families and
:10:31. > :10:33.friends of all of those that have been killed or injured in
:10:34. > :10:40.yesterday's awful attacks. I know also that the house will want to
:10:41. > :10:43.thank all those who acted with such speed and professionalism yesterday
:10:44. > :10:49.to secure this place and ensure we are able to meet, as we are doing
:10:50. > :10:54.today. Mr Speaker, at 7:30pm last night, I chaired a meeting with the
:10:55. > :10:58.emergency committee, Cobra, and will have further meetings and briefings
:10:59. > :11:02.with security officials today. The threat level to the UK has been set
:11:03. > :11:07.at a severe, meaning that an attack is highly likely for some time. This
:11:08. > :11:12.is the second highest threat level. The highest level, critical, means
:11:13. > :11:17.there is a specific intelligence that an attack is imminent. As there
:11:18. > :11:20.is no such intelligence, the independent joint terrorism analysis
:11:21. > :11:25.Centre has decided the threat level will not change in the light of
:11:26. > :11:29.yesterday's attack. Mr Speaker, the whole country will want to know who
:11:30. > :11:34.was responsible for this atrocity and the measures that we are taking
:11:35. > :11:37.to strengthen security, including here in Westminster. A full
:11:38. > :11:42.counterterrorism investigation is already under way. Hundreds of our
:11:43. > :11:46.police and security officers have been working through the night to
:11:47. > :11:51.establish everything possible about this attack, including its
:11:52. > :11:56.preparation, motivation and whether there were any associates involved
:11:57. > :12:01.in its planning. While there remain limits on what I can say at this
:12:02. > :12:09.stage, I can confirm that overnight the police have searched six
:12:10. > :12:12.addresses and made eight arrests in Birmingham and London. It is still
:12:13. > :12:15.believed that this attacker acted alone and the police have no reason
:12:16. > :12:19.to believe there are imminent further attacks on the public. His
:12:20. > :12:24.identity is known to the police and MI5. When operational considerations
:12:25. > :12:30.allow, he will be publicly identified. What I can confirm is
:12:31. > :12:37.that the man was British-born and that, some years ago, he was once
:12:38. > :12:44.investigated by MI5 in relation to concerns about violent extremism. He
:12:45. > :12:49.was a peripheral figure. The case is historic. He was not part of the
:12:50. > :12:52.current intelligence picture. There was no prior intelligence on his
:12:53. > :13:03.intent or of the plot. Intensive investigations continue. As Acting
:13:04. > :13:06.Deputy Commissioner confirmed last night, the working assumption is
:13:07. > :13:11.that the attacker was inspired by Islamist ideology. We know that the
:13:12. > :13:14.threat from Islamist terrorism is very real. And while the public
:13:15. > :13:28.should remain utterly vigilant, they should not and will not be cowed by
:13:29. > :13:33.this threat. As Acting Deputy Commissioner Rowley Cosmic Key, we
:13:34. > :13:41.stepping up patrols in cities across the country, with more police and
:13:42. > :13:45.armed police on the streets. Since June 2013, our police, security and
:13:46. > :13:50.intelligence agencies have successfully disrupted 13 separate
:13:51. > :13:55.terrorist plots in Britain. Following the 2015 strategic defence
:13:56. > :13:58.and Security review, we protected the police budgets for
:13:59. > :14:01.counterterrorism and committed to increase cross government spending
:14:02. > :14:05.on counterterrorism by 30% in real terms over the course of this
:14:06. > :14:09.Parliament. Over the next five years, we will invest an extra ?2.5
:14:10. > :14:17.billion in building our global security and intelligence network,
:14:18. > :14:20.employing 1900 additional staff at MI5, MI6 and GCHQ, and more than
:14:21. > :14:24.doubling our global network of counterterrorism experts, working
:14:25. > :14:25.with priority countries across Europe, the Middle East, Africa and
:14:26. > :14:35.Asia. Mr Speaker, in terms of security
:14:36. > :14:38.here at Westminster we should eat clearer first of all that an
:14:39. > :14:44.attacker attempted to break into Parliament and was shot dead within
:14:45. > :14:47.20 yards up the gate. If his intention was to gain access to this
:14:48. > :14:57.building we should be clear he did not succeed. The police heroically
:14:58. > :15:01.did their job. But as is routine, the police together with the House
:15:02. > :15:06.parodies are reviewing the security of the Parliamentary estate,
:15:07. > :15:10.coordinated with Cabinet Office who have responsibility for security
:15:11. > :15:14.measures in place around government secure zones. All of us in this
:15:15. > :15:18.House have a responsibility for the security and safety of our staff and
:15:19. > :15:23.advice is available for members who needed. Mr Speaker, yesterday we saw
:15:24. > :15:29.the worst of humanity but we will remember the best. We will remember
:15:30. > :15:31.the extraordinary efforts to save the life of PC Keith Palmer
:15:32. > :15:37.including those by my right honourable friend, the Member for
:15:38. > :15:42.Bournemouth East. And we will remember the exceptional bravery of
:15:43. > :15:47.our police, security and emergency services who once again ran towards
:15:48. > :15:52.the danger even as they encouraged others to move the other way. On the
:15:53. > :15:56.half of the whole country, I want to pay tribute to them for the work
:15:57. > :16:00.they have been doing to reassure the public, treat the injured and bring
:16:01. > :16:05.security back to the streets of our capital city. That they have lost
:16:06. > :16:08.one of their own in yesterday's attack only makes the cameras and
:16:09. > :16:21.professionalism all the more remarkable. -- calmness. More will
:16:22. > :16:26.be set in the coming days but the greatest response lies not in the
:16:27. > :16:31.words of politicians but in the everyday actions of ordinary people.
:16:32. > :16:34.For beyond these halls today in scenes repeated in towns and cities
:16:35. > :16:39.across the country millions of people are going about their days
:16:40. > :16:45.and getting on with their lives. The streets are as busy as ever, the
:16:46. > :16:48.offices of all, the copy shops and cafes bustling. As I speak millions
:16:49. > :16:52.will be boarding trains and planes to go to London to see for
:16:53. > :16:55.themselves the greatest city on earth. It is in these actions
:16:56. > :17:01.millions of acts of normality that we find the best response to
:17:02. > :17:06.terrorism. A response that denies our enemies their victory, that
:17:07. > :17:14.refuses to let them win. That shows the bill never given. In response
:17:15. > :17:18.that driven by Doug Sainsbury that drove a husband and father to put
:17:19. > :17:27.himself between us and our attacker and to pay the ultimate price. A
:17:28. > :17:34.response that says men and women who propagate this had an evil, you will
:17:35. > :17:39.not defeat us. Let this be the message from this House and nation
:17:40. > :17:47.today, our values will prevail and I commend this statement to the House.
:17:48. > :17:55.Order, order. Colleagues, I am biased that we have enjoined today
:17:56. > :18:00.by French Foreign Minister who is accompanied by a number of his
:18:01. > :18:04.colleagues and also by the deputy Foreign Secretary the right
:18:05. > :18:08.honourable gentleman the Member for Rutland and Melton so we appreciate
:18:09. > :18:09.your presence and you're very fitting display of solidarity with
:18:10. > :18:13.us. Speaker John Bercow responding
:18:14. > :18:21.to the Prime Minister's Theresa May. And he acknowledged the presence of
:18:22. > :18:22.the French Foreign Minister in the Commons this morning.
:18:23. > :18:24.And we'll hear the response from Jeremy Corbyn
:18:25. > :18:30.We're joined now by our Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg.
:18:31. > :18:35.The Prime Minister told us the attacker was British-born, he had
:18:36. > :18:40.been on a sort of MI5 watchlist some time ago wasn't part now of any
:18:41. > :18:45.current intelligence investigations and we are also learning more about
:18:46. > :18:48.what happened yesterday. We are and in the last 20 minutes I was told it
:18:49. > :18:52.was not one of the armed guards in the Palace of Westminster who would
:18:53. > :18:56.be there as part of routine security who shot the attacker, I understand
:18:57. > :19:01.in fact it was one of the bodyguards of the Defence Secretary Michael
:19:02. > :19:05.Fallon. The crucial difference above that is that of course those
:19:06. > :19:09.bodyguards, the close protection officers are only in the Palace of
:19:10. > :19:18.Westminster when those ministers are actually there. So as I understand,
:19:19. > :19:20.those events in Palace Yard, we have seen the pictures of where the
:19:21. > :19:24.attacker was stopped in his tracks, but is a part of Westminster that
:19:25. > :19:30.ministers sweep in and out of in armed cars with their own security
:19:31. > :19:34.detail, it is as I understand, a member of one of those teams who
:19:35. > :19:38.stop the attack are getting any further and getting closer into the
:19:39. > :19:42.heart of Westminster for there were hundreds of people. That is a
:19:43. > :19:46.crucial difference, it hasn't been officially confirmed by the
:19:47. > :19:50.Metropolitan Police yet but we understand that is what happened.
:19:51. > :19:54.That explains because I was puzzled yesterday, that the attacker was
:19:55. > :19:59.shot by plainclothed policemen as they were called but it turns out we
:20:00. > :20:01.think to be the close protection officers of the Defence Secretary
:20:02. > :20:05.which of course immediately raises the question, it was entirely
:20:06. > :20:11.fortuitous that they were there at that time. It was a time MPs were
:20:12. > :20:15.voting and just as MPs around the place rushed towards the House of
:20:16. > :20:19.Commons division is lobbied to go through ministers from around
:20:20. > :20:22.Whitehall get into their cars, they rushed down fight all into
:20:23. > :20:27.Parliament, carry out their duty, voting, and you are absolutely
:20:28. > :20:32.right, if as we understand it, the person who stop the attacker getting
:20:33. > :20:37.further, but of course horrifically they might have potentially have
:20:38. > :20:40.been able to cause more damage and potentially a much greater loss of
:20:41. > :20:45.life was only stopped as we understand it, by a coincidence of
:20:46. > :20:50.the time that the tactic place during a vote in the House of
:20:51. > :20:53.Commons. As I say, important to note, this is not officially been
:20:54. > :20:56.confirmed by the government or the Metropolitan Police but we
:20:57. > :21:03.understand that BBC news that is the case and it seems potentially, it is
:21:04. > :21:07.a coincidence that the loss of life was as small as it was although of
:21:08. > :21:11.course for the people involved, events as great as they could
:21:12. > :21:15.possibly be. Is there a suggestion he was able to get through the gates
:21:16. > :21:20.because of the coincidence, he had smashed his car, he had run round...
:21:21. > :21:25.During a vote, I think you've already said, the gates are open to
:21:26. > :21:29.allow ministers to go in and out but even at times when they vote isn't
:21:30. > :21:33.taking place against two open every now and again and there are
:21:34. > :21:37.policemen on the front and everyone says hello as they go past but I
:21:38. > :21:41.think in the coming days and of course the focus is on the
:21:42. > :21:46.investigation, the current security arrangements, of course, that is
:21:47. > :21:49.what is in peoples's minds and the Prime Minister was extremely careful
:21:50. > :21:54.and I was in the chamber and clearly from all sides of the House was
:21:55. > :21:58.given very robust support in the tone that she struck, calling for
:21:59. > :22:03.unity and resolve other than today at this stage looking to find fault.
:22:04. > :22:06.But I do think in the coming days there will be a lot of discussion
:22:07. > :22:14.about whether or not the security inside the Commons is really as it
:22:15. > :22:18.should be. As we've been remarking it is impossible even to imagine,
:22:19. > :22:24.it's not even 24 hours since this all started but it has obvious been
:22:25. > :22:28.the case that once you are inside Westminster, it feels like an
:22:29. > :22:32.extremely safe place. Very difficult to get in, we all what past dozens
:22:33. > :22:36.of armed officers all the time but once you're in, it has always been
:22:37. > :22:39.very much regarded as a place of safety, that's one of the wonderful
:22:40. > :22:45.things about it for politicians and members of the public who can come
:22:46. > :22:49.in and walk around and spot a government minister but as details
:22:50. > :22:53.of this become crystal clear, we are only starting to piece things
:22:54. > :22:56.together, there will be very real concerns raised about security
:22:57. > :22:59.inside the Palace of Westminster and having been part of the lockdown
:23:00. > :23:04.yesterday the staff in Parliament were trying their absolute best to
:23:05. > :23:11.keep everybody safe. But there was a lot of shouting, especially in the
:23:12. > :23:13.early moments, quite a chaotic atmosphere and people didn't
:23:14. > :23:18.necessarily know for they were meant to be going or what to do. I was
:23:19. > :23:24.part of a group of people, we were moved around if you times to parts
:23:25. > :23:30.of the parliamentary estate, I know MPs work unhappy, some of them about
:23:31. > :23:35.being kept in the chamber, their burglaries in case it was a chemical
:23:36. > :23:38.attack, people had to stay in the chamber, MPs and peers at the other
:23:39. > :23:45.end would not necessarily happy about that at all. It's a huge
:23:46. > :23:50.relief or escape that this terrorist was not armed in the wake that
:23:51. > :23:54.terrorists at the Bataclan or Charlie Hebdo were organised or
:23:55. > :23:59.Brussels. I think we are going to leave it there because we have a lot
:24:00. > :24:05.to talk about but you have given us quite a dramatic element Laura, so
:24:06. > :24:09.thank you. We will talk to the security minister shortly.
:24:10. > :24:11.Now, as we heard, addresses in London and Birmingham
:24:12. > :24:14.Our correspondent Phil Mackie is in Birmingham and we
:24:15. > :24:23.Can you bring us up to date with what's happening? We know for
:24:24. > :24:29.arrests were made in Birmingham, three of them in the flats here,
:24:30. > :24:32.flats above this restaurant and around 11 o'clock last night armed
:24:33. > :24:36.forces came and sealed off the road, you can here the traffic in the
:24:37. > :24:40.background, a busy route into Birmingham, they sealed it off, came
:24:41. > :24:45.in here, shops and restaurants which were still quite busy at 11pm last
:24:46. > :24:49.night, everyone was kept on lockdown for two hours and three men were
:24:50. > :24:53.seen being taken away. In the small hours, a little bit later, boxes of
:24:54. > :25:00.evidence were taken out. There is still a lot of activity going on
:25:01. > :25:02.here, into the afternoon, we haven't had confirmation that these arrests
:25:03. > :25:06.were linked to what happened in Westminster but it's got to be more
:25:07. > :25:10.than a coincidence and all enquiries are being referred to Scotland Yard.
:25:11. > :25:13.What's the atmosphere like in the area for you are because of Busby of
:25:14. > :25:18.concern and worrying to the local community there as well? It's one of
:25:19. > :25:23.those strange places in Birmingham, that way across the road is one of
:25:24. > :25:26.the richest parts of the city, Edgbaston, millionaires Row, this
:25:27. > :25:30.side, just about in Ladywood, just about the poorest area of Birmingham
:25:31. > :25:35.and one of the three poorest districts in the country, a real
:25:36. > :25:39.transient population, people from all across the world and they don't
:25:40. > :25:42.necessarily know each other. We spoke to neighbours who solve what
:25:43. > :25:46.happened last night, clearly frightened by armed officers at the
:25:47. > :25:49.door but they can't really see a great about who was in there and
:25:50. > :25:54.what they might have been up to. I can tell you actually now there are
:25:55. > :25:58.probably about ten times as many journalists as members of the public
:25:59. > :26:01.and there are one or two annoyed businesspeople, the restaurant
:26:02. > :26:04.owners who would quite like to get open and camphor obvious reasons,
:26:05. > :26:10.journalists from all over the world gathered here because really is this
:26:11. > :26:12.investigation on falls this is probably the only location in the
:26:13. > :26:18.country we can see anything happen then. Thank you. I can bring you
:26:19. > :26:23.news the Islamic State terror group has claimed the Westminster attacker
:26:24. > :26:26.was a soldier of the Islamic State. That's just been released in the
:26:27. > :26:33.last few minutes. That is the standard format they use when
:26:34. > :26:36.claiming responsibility for Islamic State attacks. This would be a good
:26:37. > :26:40.time to bring in the security minister Ben Wallace.
:26:41. > :26:44.We're joined now by the Security Minister Ben Wallace.
:26:45. > :26:48.To pick up on the conversation we were having with Laura about what
:26:49. > :26:52.happened in the Palace of Westminster and new Palace Yard,
:26:53. > :26:58.shooting, the shooting of the attacker that was done by protection
:26:59. > :27:02.officers we understand, the Defence Secretary, can you confirm that? I
:27:03. > :27:06.cannot, we are not going to speculate about an incident, I think
:27:07. > :27:10.the facts as presented by Mark Rowley, and followed up why the
:27:11. > :27:15.Prime Minister in her statement is where we are. I learned a long time
:27:16. > :27:21.ago in my previous life in counterterrorism not to speculate...
:27:22. > :27:24.It can't be a matter of speculation who shot the attacker. As the
:27:25. > :27:30.security minister you must know by now. I know what's been going on but
:27:31. > :27:34.we have to establish... You know who shot the attacker? I am aware of
:27:35. > :27:39.what went on yesterday to the best of my ability. So it's not
:27:40. > :27:43.speculation. What we need to do is give space to law enforcement
:27:44. > :27:49.agencies, to make sure they can verify the facts as witnesses have
:27:50. > :27:52.made representations about what they saw, piece together the incident and
:27:53. > :27:57.exploit the intelligence and I think, you know, as you said, it
:27:58. > :28:01.hasn't been confirmed, talking about who may or may not have actually
:28:02. > :28:06.shot the attacker, I don't think is how all at this moment. Except it
:28:07. > :28:13.raises questions about security, security of people who work within
:28:14. > :28:15.the Palace of Westminster as well as those outside of MPs,
:28:16. > :28:20.parliamentarians, staff, visitors and tourists to the area. Do you
:28:21. > :28:24.think it is sufficiently robust, bearing in mind the police officer
:28:25. > :28:29.who died in the line of duty, Keith Palmer, was an armed as he tried to
:28:30. > :28:34.apprehend the attacker? I think it's robust, let's not forget the tragic
:28:35. > :28:41.murder of Keith Palmer happened but he died doing a job alongside armed
:28:42. > :28:44.officers of protecting that entrance and the assailants didn't get more
:28:45. > :28:49.than 20 yards into Parliament and he was stopped with lethal force. We
:28:50. > :28:53.shouldn't forget that. I was listening to Laura Coombes bird's
:28:54. > :29:01.comment about what was going on inside, and I think we should
:29:02. > :29:06.remember that the police and work are systematic you cleared a
:29:07. > :29:09.difficult building to clear. -- Laura Coombes bird. But people with
:29:10. > :29:16.the untrained eye couldn't see us that we were being moved from an
:29:17. > :29:18.cleared and two-tiered areas. I understand they were sweeping the
:29:19. > :29:24.whole of the building but I think it remains this crucial issue, you say
:29:25. > :29:28.there are armed guards, police officers at the gates which opened
:29:29. > :29:32.to let ministerial cars in and out, is that the case? I'm not going to
:29:33. > :29:36.go any further about who actually was involved in the shooting
:29:37. > :29:40.incident, I think what I can say is that our police forces who police
:29:41. > :29:44.both outside and inside and the government quarter around part of
:29:45. > :29:49.Whitehall are many and there are plenty of plans in place that you
:29:50. > :29:54.don't see but happen every day to try and keep us as safe as possible.
:29:55. > :30:01.Iain Duncan Smith, are you reassured that the security systems in place
:30:02. > :30:05.at Westminster are robust enough? Well, he was quite clear in the
:30:06. > :30:07.sense that he doesn't want to discuss this now, and I understand
:30:08. > :30:12.that. I think the point being made is legitimate, that we will need to
:30:13. > :30:16.look at this after the dust has settled, to figure out whether or
:30:17. > :30:24.not there was sufficient protection at key entrances. For example, at St
:30:25. > :30:28.Stephen's entrance, there are always go there all the time, because that
:30:29. > :30:31.is where the public often come. The question will be raised about if
:30:32. > :30:34.there is an armed officer there. I don't know if this is true or not,
:30:35. > :30:39.but maybe now is not the time for this. But it will certainly happen,
:30:40. > :30:42.because a lot of colleagues will ask questions about what was taking
:30:43. > :30:45.place during the course of the lockdown. The attacker himself, the
:30:46. > :30:56.Prime Minister described him as peripheral. We could be I -- he
:30:57. > :30:59.could have been involved in extremes, do you think the security
:31:00. > :31:03.services and GCHQ have enough resources to tackle all of the
:31:04. > :31:10.potential suspect that could perform this kind of lone wolf attack? I do.
:31:11. > :31:16.I ask them that regularly. I asked, and this Government has increased
:31:17. > :31:23.resources to fight terrorism by 30% over this Parliament. That is a
:31:24. > :31:27.massive increase. We expanded MI5, MI6 and GCHQ to meet the threat. We
:31:28. > :31:33.are very alive to asking the agencies whether they have the
:31:34. > :31:37.support and resources they need. We also have to tackle terrorism within
:31:38. > :31:40.the bounds of the legal framework. Have to make sure that we always do
:31:41. > :31:46.things that are proportionate and necessary in order to do it. That
:31:47. > :31:51.are the guidelines that the intelligence officers followed the
:31:52. > :31:56.letter, to achieve safety as much as possible. Emily Thornberry, Lord
:31:57. > :31:59.Carlile has said today that the Government will obviously, in his
:32:00. > :32:03.words, have to look at the level of staffing in organisations like the
:32:04. > :32:07.security services and GCHQ. Do agree? I do.
:32:08. > :32:13.I think it's interesting this man was seen as peripheral. I would be
:32:14. > :32:16.interested to know when he was identified as being peripheral and
:32:17. > :32:21.if it was somebody the Home Office knew about when Theresa May was
:32:22. > :32:24.there, and why it was decided he was peripheral. Obviously, you have to
:32:25. > :32:30.have priorities. Resources will never be finite, you have to make
:32:31. > :32:38.decisions about who is peripheral and who isn't. With more resources
:32:39. > :32:42.you can cast the net further. I agree there will have to investigate
:32:43. > :32:46.this. Just so the public understand the scale of the effort going on
:32:47. > :32:50.now... Because of the numbers of people we are talking about? He was
:32:51. > :32:53.considered peripheral, but he had been checked. There are lots of
:32:54. > :32:57.character similar to this in communities, I know in my borough,
:32:58. > :33:01.north-east London, there will be a lot of characters like this on the
:33:02. > :33:05.margins. The question is, how much resource do you need to follow all
:33:06. > :33:09.of these people? It is a big question, it is not that we are not
:33:10. > :33:15.doing anything. The question is, how far are we prepared to go and how
:33:16. > :33:19.much are we prepared to spend? I used the expression lone wolf, he
:33:20. > :33:23.was on his own, he plunged his car into pedestrians, killing two of
:33:24. > :33:28.them, and able to bridge the security into Westminster. We have
:33:29. > :33:31.just spoken to Phil Mackey, who talked about raids in London and
:33:32. > :33:38.Birmingham, does that imply it is part of a wider network? Nobody is
:33:39. > :33:41.100% alone. The attack was clearly perpetrated by one person, but what
:33:42. > :33:45.we know from looking at France and Germany is that they have either
:33:46. > :33:48.been radicalised online, and therefore there is an implication
:33:49. > :33:53.summary has reached out from abroad or at home, or in some events there
:33:54. > :33:57.was logistical support. I think that is what the leaves are which are
:33:58. > :34:02.being exploited at the moment by security agencies and police forces
:34:03. > :34:04.to get to the bottom of that. The initial incident has effectively
:34:05. > :34:09.closed. It was viewed as a single attacker. I would like to make one
:34:10. > :34:14.point about intelligence. One thing that is really important to remember
:34:15. > :34:19.is that we always get into this area, intelligence in retrospect,
:34:20. > :34:22.I'm afraid, is always right. Every day, intelligence services and
:34:23. > :34:26.police officers see in front of them segments or scraps of intelligence
:34:27. > :34:30.and they have to make a judgment, amongst thousands of different
:34:31. > :34:33.scraps of intelligence, where to put the resource and which defines
:34:34. > :34:41.intent. There are a lot of people who might talk about things, but who
:34:42. > :34:45.is going to do something? Not now, and Iain Duncan Smith is right,
:34:46. > :34:50.there will be a debrief, a review, whatever you want to call it, of the
:34:51. > :34:54.whole event. That is why we are such good agencies and police forces,
:34:55. > :34:58.because we learn, if there are mistakes, we learn where we can
:34:59. > :35:01.improve. It is important to remember that we do not put these people out
:35:02. > :35:04.here as if they have made some kind of mistake. Intelligence in
:35:05. > :35:09.retrospect is always viewed as right. At a time, it is a judgment
:35:10. > :35:14.call and I trust their judgment. And we hear that they are boiling point
:35:15. > :35:18.all the time? Being armed only with a knife, it
:35:19. > :35:21.might suggest it may not be a lone wolf, but it would suggest he was
:35:22. > :35:28.not part of a well-organised network. He did another evil with a
:35:29. > :35:38.knife, but he could have been armed with more than that? After Paris, in
:35:39. > :35:43.response to Paris, there was an increase across the United Kingdom
:35:44. > :35:50.in armed police, increasing their capability. We have also done a
:35:51. > :35:55.number of investigative intelligence operations, trying to find weapons.
:35:56. > :35:58.I think we got over 800 weapons in a single one month operation. We have
:35:59. > :36:04.taken off the streets and invested in armed police to detain that. --
:36:05. > :36:08.deter. Lets now pause and look back
:36:09. > :36:10.at yesterday's terrible events Adam Fleming was in an around
:36:11. > :36:13.Westminster yesterday afternoon and evening,
:36:14. > :36:14.here's his report. The moment we knew something
:36:15. > :36:18.was wrong - seriously wrong. On Westminster Bridge,
:36:19. > :36:27.a car ploughed through tourists including some French students,
:36:28. > :36:33.killing two people. The vehicle crashed into the fence
:36:34. > :36:39.that surrounds Parliament. The scene, just inside the gates,
:36:40. > :36:43.just moments later. The attacker on the ground,
:36:44. > :36:45.a knife by his side. Meters away, the unarmed officer
:36:46. > :36:50.who had stopped him getting into Parliament was being treated
:36:51. > :36:52.by paramedics and a Government minister,
:36:53. > :36:58.but they couldn't save his life. I am now going to suspend
:36:59. > :37:02.the sitting of the house. This house is now suspended,
:37:03. > :37:06.but please wait here. As Parliament froze in terror,
:37:07. > :37:09.the Prime Minister was sped away There has been a serious
:37:10. > :37:19.incident within the estate. It seems that a police
:37:20. > :37:21.officer has been stabbed, that the alleged assailant was shot
:37:22. > :37:34.by armed police. An air ambulance is currently
:37:35. > :37:38.attending the scene. Across Parliament, hundreds
:37:39. > :37:40.were marooned in lockdown. MPs, peers, staff, visitors -
:37:41. > :37:45.including schoolchildren. Many were escorted across the roads
:37:46. > :37:48.to Westminster Abbey, welcomed with coffee and a prayer
:37:49. > :37:53.from the Dean. They emerged hours later,
:37:54. > :37:55.after telling police The Prime Minister was only a few
:37:56. > :38:01.feet in front of me when we came A huge member of her security
:38:02. > :38:06.entourage went down and said something to her, and she said,
:38:07. > :38:07."Oh." So I think that's when people
:38:08. > :38:14.realised there was something We are all able to walk out
:38:15. > :38:19.of here tonight in darkness because a police officer has
:38:20. > :38:21.put his life on the line That is a measure of just not
:38:22. > :38:25.that police officer, but all of the people who have been
:38:26. > :38:28.involved in this today. Thank you so much to all the police
:38:29. > :38:33.and security services, really thinking of all of them,
:38:34. > :38:36.and their colleague who didn't make Just immensely grateful
:38:37. > :38:48.for all that they do, for all of us, putting their lives
:38:49. > :38:51.on the line every day. Terrible, terrible day
:38:52. > :38:53.here in Westminster. Then came responses from those
:38:54. > :38:56.who run the country and the city. These street of Westminster, home
:38:57. > :38:58.to the world's oldest Parliament, are ingrained with a spirit
:38:59. > :39:00.of freedom that echoes in some of the furthest
:39:01. > :39:06.corners of the globe. My message to those that
:39:07. > :39:09.want to harm us and destroy our way of life is that you won't succeed,
:39:10. > :39:12.you won't divide us. Scotland Yard gave information
:39:13. > :39:16.about the police officer One of those who died today
:39:17. > :39:21.was a police officer, PC Keith Palmer, a member
:39:22. > :39:23.of our Parliamentary Keith, aged 48, had 15 years service
:39:24. > :39:30.and was a husband and father. The authorities' assumption,
:39:31. > :39:36.that this was a case A new day brought increased
:39:37. > :39:42.security, as Met officers remembered their fallen colleague
:39:43. > :39:48.with a minute's silence. Also observed in
:39:49. > :39:55.the Commons chamber. Questions to the Secretary of State
:39:56. > :40:04.for International Trade? Later, there is a debate
:40:05. > :40:06.on next week's agenda, Business almost as usual,
:40:07. > :40:22.defiance in a very Westminster way. The union flag still flying at
:40:23. > :40:30.half-mast over the Palace of Westminster. We can now speak to
:40:31. > :40:33.Gordon Corera, the BBC security correspondent. A moving story, what
:40:34. > :40:37.are the most significant things we now know about what happened
:40:38. > :40:43.yesterday? Two things have really come out this morning. First, we had
:40:44. > :40:45.a statement, purporting to be from so-called Islamic State, saying that
:40:46. > :40:50.the person who carried out the attack was responding to its call,
:40:51. > :40:52.and that it was one of its, in its rays, soldiers. That does not
:40:53. > :41:02.necessarily mean the group itself was in contact with it beforehand,
:41:03. > :41:05.but it does imply there is some kind of inspiration linked to so-called
:41:06. > :41:08.Islamic State. I think that is one significant development in the last
:41:09. > :41:14.30 minutes or so. The other thing is a statement from the Prime Minister,
:41:15. > :41:17.that this was an individual identified by the authorities, even
:41:18. > :41:22.though they are not naming him, and was known to MI5, on the periphery
:41:23. > :41:28.of a previous investigation. It was interesting that the authorities
:41:29. > :41:32.decided to be proactive and say that early on, even before the name came
:41:33. > :41:35.out. I think they realise it is something that will come out and
:41:36. > :41:39.raise questions. If you like, they wanted to get ahead of that and say,
:41:40. > :41:42.yes, we did know about this individual, but no, we did not know
:41:43. > :41:50.about his intent to carry out the attack. I picking this up right, is
:41:51. > :41:55.there a sense that he was on the MI5... Well, let me put it this way,
:41:56. > :42:00.he was on MI5's radar sometime back, we don't know when, and maybe you
:42:01. > :42:03.can tell us, but it looks like they concluded, among all of the
:42:04. > :42:08.priorities and threats that they have to monitor, that he was pretty
:42:09. > :42:13.far down the list, and therefore he dropped off the radar? Is that how
:42:14. > :42:17.we see things? Yes, that is one way of putting it. I think a lot of
:42:18. > :42:20.people come up in counterterrorism investigations. Say there is one
:42:21. > :42:23.person who they consider is dangerous and plotting, they will
:42:24. > :42:26.look at all of the associates of that individual. They might decide
:42:27. > :42:31.some are dangerous, some are not, some they might watch for a while
:42:32. > :42:33.and then there is no sign of activity, new priorities come up and
:42:34. > :42:38.they will replace those where there has been no sign of intent. There is
:42:39. > :42:42.a continuous process of prioritisation by MI5 and the police
:42:43. > :42:45.of their surveillance resources and investigative resources. It has been
:42:46. > :42:52.controversial in the past, because some of the July the 7th 2005
:42:53. > :42:56.attackers had been investigated in a previous inquiry, the year before.
:42:57. > :43:00.The Woolwich attackers came up in previous investigations. You are
:43:01. > :43:03.increasingly seeing this, that MI5 have noticed somebody. But it does
:43:04. > :43:07.not mean they are always going to be followed all the time, the resources
:43:08. > :43:11.are not there. The figure we had recently from the police is that
:43:12. > :43:14.there are about 500, or more than 500, live investigations. You are
:43:15. > :43:18.talking about thousands of people that they are constantly looking at
:43:19. > :43:23.and trying to work out which ones are the priority. That doesn't mean
:43:24. > :43:26.people will not question whether something did go wrong, whether
:43:27. > :43:32.there are lessons to be learned. I think the response you are already
:43:33. > :43:36.hearing from the authorities is that this was someone who was peripheral,
:43:37. > :43:38.and therefore did not merit greater surveillance resources at the time
:43:39. > :43:45.was since. Gordon, thank you very much. That was the BBC security
:43:46. > :43:49.correspondent. We are joined from Edinburgh by Chris Phillips, who
:43:50. > :43:55.spent seven years running the National Counterterrorism Security
:43:56. > :44:01.Office. What analysis do you make of this attacker and its significance?
:44:02. > :44:04.The most important thing to think of at this moment, and I have to say I
:44:05. > :44:12.am a little bit disappointed by Laura Kuenssberg there, who is
:44:13. > :44:16.already, less than 24 hours later, trying to apportion blame. She is
:44:17. > :44:19.not, she is reporting what she knows. I think the fact we are
:44:20. > :44:22.trying to make a big thing that there were no police officers with
:44:23. > :44:25.guns there, I don't think it is appropriate at the moment, because
:44:26. > :44:29.there were police officers with guns and this guy was stopped from
:44:30. > :44:33.entering the Houses of Parliament. The important thing to realise is
:44:34. > :44:36.that this type of attack that we have seen, with somebody driving on
:44:37. > :44:41.the pavement, could be committed by pretty much anybody in this country.
:44:42. > :44:44.You would have to have the intention and motivation, but it could be. It
:44:45. > :44:52.is almost impossible to stop that. I don't think anybody is arguing with
:44:53. > :44:56.that. We saw what happened in Nice as well. No free society can stop an
:44:57. > :45:01.individual from deciding to drive their car or truck onto the pavement
:45:02. > :45:07.and mowing people down indiscriminately. What I would like
:45:08. > :45:10.to know, given your background, is... Will it be quite difficult for
:45:11. > :45:18.the security services to establish whether he had a network or not?
:45:19. > :45:24.Whether he was this loan will for was he part of a wider operation? --
:45:25. > :45:28.Lone Wolf. He only needed a car and knife, he didn't necessarily need to
:45:29. > :45:33.be part of a network? Absolutely, that is the big difficulty with this
:45:34. > :45:37.type of attack. However, the police and security services will be
:45:38. > :45:40.looking very closely now at his past, who he has been talking to.
:45:41. > :45:44.That is not aided by the difficulties that they have with
:45:45. > :45:49.encryption of social media at the moment, which makes the job of the
:45:50. > :45:51.police and security services in the investigation much more difficult.
:45:52. > :45:57.But the important thing is to identify if there is people he is
:45:58. > :46:00.linked to, and what their motivations are, whether they are
:46:01. > :46:06.likely to do something like this. You know, well we call this a Lone
:46:07. > :46:09.Wolf attack, it is very unlikely other people will not know. Those
:46:10. > :46:12.are the people that can stop this, if they had known it was going to
:46:13. > :46:16.happen, they could have made the phone call. Of course, but they
:46:17. > :46:21.weren't going to stop him if they were complicit. That is what we need
:46:22. > :46:24.to find out. One more question on this, just explain the significance,
:46:25. > :46:31.I assume that it is standard practice that people can be on the
:46:32. > :46:35.security services radar, and then they don't find something out, they
:46:36. > :46:39.have to move resources, priorities elsewhere, so that people come in
:46:40. > :46:47.and out of MI5 and other security services radar?
:46:48. > :46:54.Absolutely and not only have we got people who have come back from
:46:55. > :46:57.Warsaw but we have people released from prison is for terrorism
:46:58. > :47:02.offences and are back in the community and show no signs of being
:47:03. > :47:05.de-radicalised. Sheer weight of numbers of these people means that
:47:06. > :47:11.some poor soul has two make a decision, a risk assessment decision
:47:12. > :47:18.about who is most likely to commit and offence, there is a lot of
:47:19. > :47:23.others to -- of that goes around that, but actually the resources
:47:24. > :47:30.will never be enough to follow 4000 people. Thank you for joining us.
:47:31. > :47:40.Let me go back to my guests, Emily, given what you've heard so far what
:47:41. > :47:44.are your uppermost thoughts now? Two things, it's right we have to make
:47:45. > :47:47.decisions about priorities but the net can be wider with greater
:47:48. > :47:50.resources and I think we need to think about that but the second
:47:51. > :47:55.thing, policing is most effective when you work with the community and
:47:56. > :48:01.I think Putin, perhaps looking again at the engagement, the way in which
:48:02. > :48:05.the government tries to engage with particular communities is not
:48:06. > :48:09.working very well, I think that's important, and I think police can
:48:10. > :48:15.only make us safe if we want to work with them. And the intelligence that
:48:16. > :48:18.we can get from the community is important, good relationships need
:48:19. > :48:22.to be there, people need to trust the police and we don't see as many
:48:23. > :48:25.police on the streets any more, we don't see police doing football
:48:26. > :48:30.matches and setting up boxing tournament and so on because
:48:31. > :48:35.resources have been stripped. -- put in. That undermine security in a
:48:36. > :48:39.software. Perfectly reasonable points to me, we don't know if any
:48:40. > :48:42.of that is relevant to this attack. No, of course not but I'm just
:48:43. > :48:49.saying... But it's a general point you are making. Iain Duncan Smith,
:48:50. > :48:54.your thoughts? I think it's right that now is not the time to get into
:48:55. > :48:58.the detail and figure out what went right or wrong or didn't happen but
:48:59. > :49:03.I do think, the main point I take away is something a member of my
:49:04. > :49:10.family is said to me over the last 24 hours, I have a daughter working
:49:11. > :49:15.in Vancouver and they understand genuinely what the threat is, the
:49:16. > :49:19.Public understands it's in a New World, the threat will go on and on
:49:20. > :49:23.and we have a real problem defending ourselves against it and that is
:49:24. > :49:27.going to be the big issue over time, the recognition first of all that a
:49:28. > :49:32.low-key man in a car with a knife can create mayhem tells you that
:49:33. > :49:36.this problem is a very large scale problem and whilst we want to make
:49:37. > :49:41.sure we have the right resources we need to understand what that takes,
:49:42. > :49:45.we are not a police state, we are a Free State and we believe in peoples
:49:46. > :49:48.rights and freedoms in the balance between that is always a difficult
:49:49. > :49:52.job for a government and I understand, other countries as you
:49:53. > :49:56.know, you're much more towards the heavy-handed policing with
:49:57. > :50:01.paramilitary police, we've never done that. For us, I think we get
:50:02. > :50:04.the balance right and that's the key issue. Islamic State have made a
:50:05. > :50:07.further statement and they said this attack which they are now taking
:50:08. > :50:15.responsibility for was in response to their calls to targets are dozens
:50:16. > :50:19.of the coalition forces in the Middle East and it seems these calls
:50:20. > :50:24.came because the more Islamic State has been under attack in Iraq and
:50:25. > :50:28.Mosul and also in Raqqa as well, the more they have tried to ignite the
:50:29. > :50:33.worst in Europe and the United States to carry out attacks. They
:50:34. > :50:37.are blaming that is part of what happened yesterday as part of that
:50:38. > :50:41.strategy. Let's get more international response. Iain Duncan
:50:42. > :50:43.Smith mentioned his daughter in Vancouver.
:50:44. > :50:46.Leaders around the world have been quick to declare solidarity
:50:47. > :50:47.with the UK following yesterday's attack in Westminster.
:50:48. > :50:49.Many took to Twitter to express their condolences.
:50:50. > :50:54.Here's Ellie with a summary of how the world responded.
:50:55. > :51:00.Within hours of the attack world leaders have sent messages of
:51:01. > :51:06.support. Donald Trump tweeted that he'd spoken to Theresa May to offer
:51:07. > :51:10.his condolences. The victims are in our thoughts and prayers, the City
:51:11. > :51:13.of London and Her Majesty is government have the Full Sutton port
:51:14. > :51:18.of the US government in responding to the attack and bringing those to
:51:19. > :51:23.justice you are responsible. It came a year to the day since the terror
:51:24. > :51:26.attacks in Brussels, the President of the European Council tweeted that
:51:27. > :51:30.Europe stood firm with the UK and was ready to help and this morning,
:51:31. > :51:43.the President of the European Commission gave his reaction. Again
:51:44. > :51:49.and again, we see this kind of event and I am really admiring the
:51:50. > :51:52.resilience. This morning, the French Foreign Minister showed he stood
:51:53. > :51:57.shoulder to shoulder with the British, watching on in Parliament.
:51:58. > :52:02.Sir, we appreciate your presence and you're very fitting display of
:52:03. > :52:06.solidarity with us. And in Paris last night this icon of France was
:52:07. > :52:11.plunged into darkness as a mark of respect. And in Tel Aviv, the City
:52:12. > :52:17.Hall made this tribute to London. It's emerged that ensured that once
:52:18. > :52:19.came from 11 different countries, international solidarity has been
:52:20. > :52:25.offered from far and wide. That's the global reaction to what
:52:26. > :52:27.happened yesterday. So what are the Government's options
:52:28. > :52:30.in responding in terms of laws, policing and powers for the Security
:52:31. > :52:32.Service. The cross-bench peer, Lord Carlile,
:52:33. > :52:34.was the Government's Independent Reviewer
:52:35. > :52:46.of Terrorism Legislation until 2011. Welcome to the programme. It's very
:52:47. > :52:48.early days but do you have any thoughts in your mind is to what
:52:49. > :52:54.policy prescription could now follow? I don't think we need much
:52:55. > :52:57.change in the law, the law is robust, it was very carefully
:52:58. > :53:00.considered by parliament last year and I agree with what Iain Duncan
:53:01. > :53:05.Smith said yesterday about the quality of our laws and attitude. I
:53:06. > :53:10.think we may have to look at the work done by the security services,
:53:11. > :53:13.it is of very high quality, they are often the unsung heroes who protect
:53:14. > :53:16.us but there is an issue about whether they have sufficient
:53:17. > :53:21.resources. If somebody comes onto the radar have to make a judgement,
:53:22. > :53:24.this said earlier the programme, maybe if they had some more money
:53:25. > :53:31.and people they could hold people on their radar for longer and applied
:53:32. > :53:36.the proportion of provisions of the investigatory Powers act for longer.
:53:37. > :53:37.Hasn't it been the case that the intelligence services have had
:53:38. > :53:43.massive increases in their budgets over the years because of the war on
:53:44. > :53:47.terror has become not a boot is on the ground job any more, it is an
:53:48. > :53:52.intelligence fight, and intelligence led fight now and that more
:53:53. > :53:57.resources could obviously help but it seems to me, the amount of
:53:58. > :54:01.resources, they could be infinite if you need to cover everybody? If I
:54:02. > :54:05.may, there are two important points, the attrition on so-called Islamic
:54:06. > :54:12.State which she mentioned a moment or two ago, is causing Islamic State
:54:13. > :54:17.to radicalise people, to commit acts as individuals in countries like the
:54:18. > :54:20.United Kingdom and the resources have to be proportionate to that.
:54:21. > :54:24.The second thing that has happened is that for us when I started as
:54:25. > :54:32.independent reviewer of terrorism legislation we were dealing mostly
:54:33. > :54:35.with IED is, now we are dealing with cars and lorries, are more
:54:36. > :54:42.ubiquitous threat and we have to equip them with resources to deal
:54:43. > :54:46.with that threat. The intelligencer this is monitored chatter, that
:54:47. > :54:51.often helps them, it all to them, they can monitor the movement of
:54:52. > :54:56.funds and so on because that can often help them as well and we are
:54:57. > :55:01.pretty good in this country compared to continental Europe on guns but if
:55:02. > :55:07.the man is not armed with a gun and if he's not part or been ignited by
:55:08. > :55:10.chatter coming out of Raqqa or somewhere else it's really tough,
:55:11. > :55:16.one intelligence officer said to me this is a needle in a haystack, a
:55:17. > :55:19.piece of hay in a haystack? It's right to say perpetrators are mostly
:55:20. > :55:25.motivated by chatter, two people, if you forgive me, of our sort of age,
:55:26. > :55:28.Andrew, to believe they would be radicalised by something on a screen
:55:29. > :55:32.is almost unimaginable but it's true. I think it's worth reflecting
:55:33. > :55:37.the security services in the United Kingdom and the government, in the
:55:38. > :55:43.last six months or so have taken well over 50,000 sites of the
:55:44. > :55:47.Internet and we have to keep up that effort as well. And that requires
:55:48. > :55:53.resources. Thank you or being with us. MPs gathered in the House of
:55:54. > :55:57.Commons this morning note a to maintain the appearance of business
:55:58. > :56:00.as usual and after the prime ministers statement which we heard
:56:01. > :56:01.earlier the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn offered his response to the
:56:02. > :56:06.attacks yesterday. What happened yesterday,
:56:07. > :56:08.within metres of where we sit now, The police are still piecing
:56:09. > :56:11.together what took place It behoves us all not
:56:12. > :56:16.to rush to judgment, but to wait for the police
:56:17. > :56:20.to establish the facts, to stay united in our communities
:56:21. > :56:26.and not allow fear or the voices Today, we are united by our humanity
:56:27. > :56:38.and by our democratic values. And by that human
:56:39. > :56:41.impulse of solidarity. To stand together, in times
:56:42. > :56:46.of darkness and adversity. Mr Speaker, I express my condolences
:56:47. > :56:53.to the family and friends of police officer Keith Palmer,
:56:54. > :56:56.who gave his life yesterday in defence of the public
:56:57. > :57:01.and of our democracy. And we're joined now
:57:02. > :57:04.by the Labour MP Liam Byrne, who represents a Birmingham
:57:05. > :57:06.constituency and who recently wrote a book on counter-extremism
:57:07. > :57:16.and "winning the battle of ideas". How do you think the government
:57:17. > :57:21.should respond to this sort of attack? We are moving into the new
:57:22. > :57:24.face of this conflict, things coming together, about 50% of those
:57:25. > :57:28.convicted of counter terrorism offences early in the century are
:57:29. > :57:33.coming out of jail over the next couple of years, you have the risk
:57:34. > :57:39.of claw-back of foreign fighters, radicalised, battle hardened but you
:57:40. > :57:45.also have got the change in operational tactics by Isis IB -- as
:57:46. > :57:47.they are disaggregated, the caliphate is becoming a virtual
:57:48. > :57:51.caliphate and the messaging from the Middle East at the moment is no
:57:52. > :57:55.longer come to build utopia in the caliphate, it's changed over the
:57:56. > :58:01.last three months, sharply focused on this is how you commit a lone
:58:02. > :58:06.wolf attack, this is the night to buy, the specification of HGV to
:58:07. > :58:10.acquire, we are into a new phase and therefore our response has to
:58:11. > :58:14.change. How does it change? Let's look at it from a community point of
:58:15. > :58:18.view, Emily mentioned about community engagement, you are a MP,
:58:19. > :58:22.the second city identified as a place where there are convicted
:58:23. > :58:27.terrorists scum off what would you do? A couple of things, strengthened
:58:28. > :58:32.the work we continue to do in schools, teachers do a great job but
:58:33. > :58:35.very often they are not greatly supported by government policies,
:58:36. > :58:40.for example, academies are able to opt out of delivering a balanced
:58:41. > :58:44.religious education, that's not necessarily good. We don't have
:58:45. > :58:48.universal community service, getting kids to mix with each other, the big
:58:49. > :58:51.front this year is a different kind of approach to social media
:58:52. > :58:57.companies, at the moment they are still the messaging command and
:58:58. > :59:01.control structure of choice... And we just heard from Alex Carlile how
:59:02. > :59:05.much influence they have. Terrorists have the golden hour, two and a half
:59:06. > :59:10.to three hours to get something down once it goes up but they will often
:59:11. > :59:12.get 30 to 50% of the messaging through in that time. Right now
:59:13. > :59:18.companies like Google, Facebook, Apple don't have a team of engineers
:59:19. > :59:22.figuring out how to solve this problem and frankly we need to get
:59:23. > :59:25.on top of that and we need to get on top of them because they have not
:59:26. > :59:29.taken this issue seriously enough. Thank you. Very interesting.
:59:30. > :59:34.I'll be back this evening on BBC One with This Week
:59:35. > :59:42.I'll be joined by Counter extremism expert Jonathan Russell,
:59:43. > :59:44.actor, Simon Callow, commentator Miranda Green,
:59:45. > :59:47.and journalist Quentin Letts, who watched yesterday's events