:00:37. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.The EU formally responds to Theresa May's Brexit letter,
:00:46. > :00:49.promising to maintain strong ties and minimise disruption,
:00:50. > :00:52.but rules out discussing a new free trade deal until divorce talks
:00:53. > :01:00.The head of the NHS says patients in England will have to wait longer
:01:01. > :01:02.for hospital operations such as knee and hip replacements
:01:03. > :01:12.in a "trade-off" for improved care in other areas.
:01:13. > :01:14.Donald Trump's Secretary of State affirms America's commitment
:01:15. > :01:17.to Nato, but repeats the US demand for member states to
:01:18. > :01:23.And what should our passports look like after Brexit?
:01:24. > :01:28.This one treats Brexit as a blank canvas.
:01:29. > :01:44.The whole idea is newness, cleanness, a fresh start.
:01:45. > :01:49.You feel that is not going to happen, but we will see.
:01:50. > :01:52.All that in the next hour, and with me for the duration,
:01:53. > :01:53.the political journalist and commentator Isabel Oakeshott,
:01:54. > :01:55.and Ben Chacko, editor of the Morning Star.
:01:56. > :01:59.Let's kick off with the announcement this morning from the boss of NHS
:02:00. > :02:02.England that the targets for waiting times for some operations
:02:03. > :02:05.will no longer be enforced, meaning that patients face longer
:02:06. > :02:09.waits for things like hip and knee operations.
:02:10. > :02:14.Simon Stevens says his plan means that money can be freed up
:02:15. > :02:17.for other areas of the NHS, such as cancer care and Accident
:02:18. > :02:29.The changes come as the NHS faces tough targets for making billions of
:02:30. > :02:33.Here he is, speaking in the last hour in a health
:02:34. > :02:36.We've got to tackle the most urgent problems, or most
:02:37. > :02:38.urgent opportunities, facing the NHS right now,
:02:39. > :02:41.and I think everybody would agree that sorting out the pressures
:02:42. > :02:47.Having done that, over the next several years,
:02:48. > :02:53.we then absolutely want to make sure that we are expanding
:02:54. > :02:56.the availability of non-urgent operations so that we can keep
:02:57. > :03:02.There's an issue about the order in which we do it, and making sure
:03:03. > :03:05.that we don't lose track of the other things we've got
:03:06. > :03:18.That is the chief Executive of the NHS, trying to live with the budget
:03:19. > :03:24.he has been given. Isabel, relaxing the 18 week target, 90% of
:03:25. > :03:29.operations meant to take place within 18 weeks, that has got to be
:03:30. > :03:34.relaxed. It has to be relaxed because they don't have enough money
:03:35. > :03:38.to meet the target. That is right, this is a sharp wake-up call for
:03:39. > :03:43.voters about what is really going on in the NHS and the scale of the
:03:44. > :03:47.pressures it faces. This is an extraordinarily retrograde step.
:03:48. > :03:50.Under the Labour Government, a huge amount of work went into reducing
:03:51. > :03:55.waiting times, in the 90s we had people dying on waiting lists,
:03:56. > :03:59.waiting up to a year, sometimes even longer, for operations, and that
:04:00. > :04:10.went down to six months and, under Andy Burnham, to eight weeks. The
:04:11. > :04:13.minute you take the pressure off the NHS on something like this, it opens
:04:14. > :04:16.our valve and you are then into an indefinite situation for a lot of
:04:17. > :04:19.people, and I just don't think this is ultimately going to save the NHS
:04:20. > :04:21.money, because once you have people waiting indefinitely, their problems
:04:22. > :04:27.get worse and it is more expensive to treat them. Although he is hoping
:04:28. > :04:33.to save some money from extending the waiting period, he is also
:04:34. > :04:40.wanting to put more into mental health, into GPs, GP surgeries in
:04:41. > :04:44.A areas to take the pressure off A, more into Cancer and so on. He
:04:45. > :04:49.is still struggling to make ends meet? Absolutely, this is about
:04:50. > :04:52.cuts, the fact the NHS does not have enough money to fulfil its
:04:53. > :04:57.obligations and therefore he is saying this is a trade-off, although
:04:58. > :05:00.the Royal College of Surgeons used the phrase that it is waving the
:05:01. > :05:05.white flag. That is their words, they said it is waving the white
:05:06. > :05:17.flag. But of course he was the man, the chief executive, who agreed to a
:05:18. > :05:19.funding formula of about 8 billion extra in return for 22 billion of
:05:20. > :05:22.efficiency savings, that money being redeployed to the front-line sort of
:05:23. > :05:26.thing. He agreed to it. It would seem now that he probably didn't
:05:27. > :05:31.agreed to enough. I don't know whether he personally has regrets
:05:32. > :05:34.about that, but the NHS has been warning, the British Medical
:05:35. > :05:38.Association has been warning for years that the NHS is struggling to
:05:39. > :05:41.cope with demand, and a number of his solutions, a number of the
:05:42. > :05:45.things he said which are positive, care in the community, it is not
:05:46. > :05:49.clear whether that is going to... No, that is a separate budget comedy
:05:50. > :05:56.social care budget from local councils. The Chancellor did a bit,
:05:57. > :06:00.2 billion, about that. I don't think the chief executive made any mention
:06:01. > :06:05.of his 22 billion of efficiency savings this morning. Do you think
:06:06. > :06:09.they are taking place? You would hope so. The thing is, nothing will
:06:10. > :06:13.be resolved in terms of the NHS, even if you don't do what I
:06:14. > :06:17.personally and I think a lot of Tories would secretly like to do,
:06:18. > :06:21.which is completely revisit the way the NHS is funded, lets take on the
:06:22. > :06:26.sacred cow, even if you are not prepared to do that, and there is no
:06:27. > :06:30.political appetite for that at the moment... No sign Theresa May is
:06:31. > :06:36.wanting to do that. She cannot, not when she is looking at Brexit. If
:06:37. > :06:40.you tackle the issue of social care and incentivise local authorities to
:06:41. > :06:44.treat older people in their homes, which they are not incentivised to
:06:45. > :06:48.do at the moment, it is in their interest to push them to A, we
:06:49. > :06:52.will have an ongoing problem which is only going to get worse. OK, we
:06:53. > :06:54.will leave it there but of course we will return lots to the NHS in the
:06:55. > :06:56.weeks and months ahead. This is the photo that was released
:06:57. > :07:00.of Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon signing her letter
:07:01. > :07:12.to Theresa May calling for a second It is in the First Minister's
:07:13. > :07:20.official residence in Edinburgh, I think.
:07:21. > :07:22.But who has Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson likened
:07:23. > :07:31.At the end of the show Isabel and Ben will give us
:07:32. > :07:38.I'm sure they know already, but they will keep quiet for now.
:07:39. > :07:41.When Theresa May sent her Article 50 letter to the European Union
:07:42. > :07:44.on Wednesday, triggering two years of Brexit negotiations,
:07:45. > :07:48.she said she saw no reason why talks on a future free trade deal
:07:49. > :07:52.with the EU couldn't take place alongside the discussions
:07:53. > :07:58.which will thrash out the terms of the UK's exit from the union.
:07:59. > :08:02.This morning the EU formally responded.
:08:03. > :08:07.Donald Tusk, president of the European Council,
:08:08. > :08:10.said the remaining 27 EU countries wanted to ensure a smooth
:08:11. > :08:12.divorce, but said the talks would be complex and,
:08:13. > :08:18.He also insisted that discussion of the UK's future relationship
:08:19. > :08:29.with the EU could only begin once some key issues were agreed.
:08:30. > :08:34.If not the exact sum, the principles that determine the sum, that has to
:08:35. > :08:36.happen first before they can talk about any future relationship.
:08:37. > :08:43.Citizens from all over the EU live, work and study in the UK.
:08:44. > :08:50.And as long as the UK remains a member, their rights
:08:51. > :08:53.But we need to settle the status and situation
:08:54. > :08:55.after the withdrawal with reciprocal, enforceable,
:08:56. > :09:04.Second, we must prevent a legal vacuum for our companies that
:09:05. > :09:07.stems from the fact that, after Brexit, EU laws will no
:09:08. > :09:22.Third, we will also need to make sure that the UK honours
:09:23. > :09:26.all financial commitments and liabilities it has
:09:27. > :09:34.Fourth, we will seek flexible and creative solutions aiming
:09:35. > :09:38.at avoiding a hard border between Northern
:09:39. > :09:44.It is of crucial importance to support the peace process
:09:45. > :09:52.These four issues are all part of the first phase of our negotiation.
:09:53. > :09:55.Once and only once we have achieved sufficient progress
:09:56. > :10:03.on the withdrawal can we discuss the framework of our
:10:04. > :10:10.Starting parallel talks on all issues at the same time,
:10:11. > :10:17.as suggested by some in the UK, will not happen.
:10:18. > :10:24.Donald Tusk, the head of the Council of ministers that brings together
:10:25. > :10:29.the 28 members, 27 in this case, minus Britain. It is the job of the
:10:30. > :10:32.council to agree the broad negotiating strategy of the European
:10:33. > :10:37.Union in the Brexit talks and then they handed over to the European
:10:38. > :10:38.Commission in the shape of Michel Barnier and it is his job to carry
:10:39. > :10:42.out the negotiating mandate. Our Europe correspondent
:10:43. > :10:50.Damian Grammaticas is in Brussels. A number of people in London see
:10:51. > :10:54.this as a constructive, considered retiring from the Council of
:10:55. > :10:59.ministers. Is that how it is seen in Brussels, is that what it is meant
:11:00. > :11:03.to be? -- constructive, conciliatory tone.
:11:04. > :11:08.I think it is, but what it is also doing is laying out clear parameters
:11:09. > :11:15.from this site about how things will proceed, and you heard Donald Tusk
:11:16. > :11:20.say there that some in the UK have wanted this concurrent approach,
:11:21. > :11:24.talks alongside each other on exit and future trade deal, that will not
:11:25. > :11:30.happen, you said. Of course, for some who wanted that, it was in
:11:31. > :11:36.Theresa May's letter to Donald Tusk, and he is clear, he said no, it is
:11:37. > :11:40.not going to happen. This is the EU starting to lay out its parameters,
:11:41. > :11:46.and it will insist on this, I think, so the UK will find this is what the
:11:47. > :11:50.EU side ensures happens. We have just been to a briefing with the
:11:51. > :11:56.very senior EU sources said that the reason they are insisting on this is
:11:57. > :12:00.that they have to have clarity and certainty about what happens the day
:12:01. > :12:05.after Brexit, for example he said the decision by the UK, and he said
:12:06. > :12:10.this was all because of UK decisions to leave the single market, to leave
:12:11. > :12:13.the customs union, means there will be two territories with two
:12:14. > :12:18.different sets of laws and regulations that apply. So what
:12:19. > :12:24.happens to citizens who moved between the sides, companies who
:12:25. > :12:27.have contracts between the two things? What about warrants for
:12:28. > :12:32.arrest that are enforced. In one who is sought across Europe? What
:12:33. > :12:35.happens on the next day, they want immediate certainty.
:12:36. > :12:39.Let's not get too granular this morning! There is a softening of the
:12:40. > :12:47.position here, if you read Michel Barnier's article in the FT -- in
:12:48. > :12:50.the FT and listen to others in Brussels, they were saying that a
:12:51. > :12:53.divorce settlement sum had to be agreed before they would even talk
:12:54. > :12:56.about free trade. The mandate for the Council of ministers is that all
:12:57. > :13:01.we have to do is agree the parameters of what will determine
:13:02. > :13:06.the sum, not the summit itself, and then we can start talking about free
:13:07. > :13:11.trade, perhaps even by October of this year. That is more constructive
:13:12. > :13:14.than we have heard before? To be perfectly frank, I think that
:13:15. > :13:23.if you listen very carefully to what the EU had said before, all of the
:13:24. > :13:26.pronouncements before had talked about the outlines, an outline
:13:27. > :13:31.agreement on those areas, not the detail, and Michel Barnier himself,
:13:32. > :13:38.we know that in him saying this to people before, he is looking for
:13:39. > :13:42.outline agreement on the exit, the citizens, the account opening, the
:13:43. > :13:45.Irish border, and, at that point, once you have outline agreements,
:13:46. > :13:49.you can move on to start talking about the future relationship, and
:13:50. > :13:53.that is what has been reconfirmed by Donald Tusk. I don't think this is a
:13:54. > :13:57.change of opinion, I beat this is a clear reaffirmation of that which
:13:58. > :14:01.now goes to the leaders who themselves have blue sign off on
:14:02. > :14:09.this. This is only a guideline at the minute...
:14:10. > :14:12.This is what I wanted to ask your next, this is the recommended
:14:13. > :14:15.negotiating mandate from Mr Tusk, it has to go before all 27 leaders at
:14:16. > :14:18.the end of April. Are they expected to rubber-stamp this? Do you think
:14:19. > :14:21.they might still try to make changes?
:14:22. > :14:25.I think it is unlikely they will make major changes because what was
:14:26. > :14:28.made clear in our briefing is this has already been agreed in
:14:29. > :14:32.discussions with those leaders, and what we see in this language is a
:14:33. > :14:36.reflection of what the leaders have been saying. Angela Merkel said on
:14:37. > :14:41.Wednesday, after the article 50 letter was delivered, very similar
:14:42. > :14:42.thing to this, that there must be an outline agreement before
:14:43. > :14:59.negotiations on a future trade deal can take place. So I think
:15:00. > :15:02.there might be small changes but the expectation is the leaders will all
:15:03. > :15:04.agree with this because many of them have already lobbied to have their
:15:05. > :15:06.issues, the island issue, the Gibraltar issue, reflecting what the
:15:07. > :15:08.leaders want. So we now know the broad outline,
:15:09. > :15:13.negotiating positions of both sides as the Brexit talks get underway.
:15:14. > :15:15.Whether that will happen, we have got until May, the end of June, when
:15:16. > :15:16.they will actually sit down. We're joined now by the former
:15:17. > :15:18.Conservative Cabinet And in our Cardiff newsroom by
:15:19. > :15:25.the Labour backbencher Owen Smith. What is your reaction to the
:15:26. > :15:31.bargaining position that Mr Tusk has outlined?
:15:32. > :15:38.It is a construct opening statement. That was a suggestion from some that
:15:39. > :15:41.we could not start the negotiations on a new trade arrangement until we
:15:42. > :15:45.completed the Article 50 negotiation. That always seemed
:15:46. > :15:50.unrealistic to me, but I am pleased to see that Donald Tusk recognises
:15:51. > :15:55.that, and I hope that we can start discussing both things quite soon,
:15:56. > :15:58.but I understand that in the first few meetings, they want to
:15:59. > :16:02.concentrate on the priorities he set out. Owen Smith, what is your
:16:03. > :16:07.general reaction to watch other? Pleased that it is constructive but
:16:08. > :16:11.not surprised. It confirms what we suspected: Theresa May was not going
:16:12. > :16:16.to get what she wanted, which was for there to be instant discussions
:16:17. > :16:19.of new trading arrangements alongside the discussion of the
:16:20. > :16:22.divorce settlement. They've made it very clear that will not happen and
:16:23. > :16:30.we need to broadly settle the divorce payment and broadly settle
:16:31. > :16:33.the issues about Northern Ireland, and EU citizens in particular,
:16:34. > :16:38.before we get any idea of future trading arrangements. We have more
:16:39. > :16:43.prolonged uncertainty, I'm afraid. Donald Tusk does say it could be the
:16:44. > :16:47.afraid trait -- that the free-trade business could start in October.
:16:48. > :16:52.Will the British Government accept, although they say, no, we want to
:16:53. > :16:56.talk about both things? We do want to get on with negating the new
:16:57. > :17:03.arrangement -- negotiating the new arrangement as soon as possible. It
:17:04. > :17:06.is a matter for David Davis. I think what Donald Tusk at this stage has
:17:07. > :17:12.set out seems to me a reasonable approach. The fact that if it is in
:17:13. > :17:16.October, October is not that far-away, and of course, one of the
:17:17. > :17:20.things which Donald Tusk mentioned as being something he wanted to sort
:17:21. > :17:24.out right up front was something we wanted to sort out before we even
:17:25. > :17:29.began, which was the rights of EU nationals resident in the UK, so we
:17:30. > :17:36.agree on that. And that can be done? I would like to see it done quickly.
:17:37. > :17:39.Both sides say it is a priority. We wanted a formal agreement before
:17:40. > :17:44.sitting down to the negotiations. That must be encouraging, Mr Smith?
:17:45. > :17:48.Absolutely. It should be settled as soon as possible. We have argued
:17:49. > :17:51.that our Government could of haste and that by offering a unilateral
:17:52. > :17:57.view of what the deal would be on our side, but they chose not to take
:17:58. > :17:59.that. We need to get it resolved quickly because we all want to get
:18:00. > :18:03.on with getting rid of this uncertainty. Truthfully, what we
:18:04. > :18:06.have seen in the last few days is the Government trying to say once
:18:07. > :18:11.more that this will be relatively easy, just as she said there would
:18:12. > :18:16.be a sector by sector deal, and that has been rebuffed a day once more by
:18:17. > :18:20.the Europeans. It is going to be very difficult. There are going to
:18:21. > :18:22.be a huge number of stumbling blocks, and the uncertainty is
:18:23. > :18:32.unfortunately going to be prolonged. All the while, British businesses
:18:33. > :18:36.are struggling and suffering. In what way is business struggling at
:18:37. > :18:40.the moment? Our economy is one of the fastest-growing in the G7.
:18:41. > :18:44.Interesting this week to see the numbers about the public offerings
:18:45. > :18:49.in the UK. We have been one of the great markets for public offerings
:18:50. > :18:54.over the last... Well, forever and ever, but we have seen a ?10 billion
:18:55. > :19:00.reduction this year versus last. These things are highly cyclical and
:19:01. > :19:03.all that would change the moment the Saudis put their state owned petrol
:19:04. > :19:09.company up for sale, and they will be doing a lot of that through
:19:10. > :19:13.London. Hopefully, but there is a debate right now. There was an
:19:14. > :19:16.assumption that that company would be listed in London, and every is
:19:17. > :19:22.now a debate about London or New York. It has... It probably will be
:19:23. > :19:28.in bold. The primary listing was going to be in London but it now may
:19:29. > :19:31.not. It is usually cyclical and we have seen rising numbers and
:19:32. > :19:34.reductions in the UK. I am saying that we all know there is
:19:35. > :19:43.uncertainty because of Brexit, and that will be longer. I follow these
:19:44. > :19:48.things very carefully. IPOs in themselves are not a sign of
:19:49. > :19:54.cyclical uncertainty. Back to something more important - you --
:19:55. > :19:58.you represent Open Europe, is it your view that we should be a member
:19:59. > :20:02.of the single market's I don't detect from Europe any desire now,
:20:03. > :20:07.given we are leaving the EU, that we should remain members of the single
:20:08. > :20:13.market. My view is crystal clear. We should be members of the single
:20:14. > :20:17.market. The biggest fib that the Government is telling the country
:20:18. > :20:21.right now is that we will be able to enjoy the exact same benefits. That
:20:22. > :20:25.is the praise they have used. Outside the single market as we
:20:26. > :20:30.currently enjoy within it. Today's statement from President Task makes
:20:31. > :20:35.it clear that when we leave the single market, we will have a lesser
:20:36. > :20:46.level of benefits than we -- benefits than we currently enjoy,...
:20:47. > :20:49.My point was that I don't detect a desire on the other side were asked
:20:50. > :20:56.to be members of the single market closet complicates it. We could have
:20:57. > :21:01.argued for that and we didn't. A point to John Whittingdale. We can
:21:02. > :21:07.maybe, and I emphasise the word may be, do a strong free-trade agreement
:21:08. > :21:12.with the EU, but it cannot deliver the exact same benefits as full
:21:13. > :21:17.membership. That's just mission impossible. I think David Davis was
:21:18. > :21:23.right to say that our ambition is to achieve the freest possible access
:21:24. > :21:26.for trade in goods and services. But it wouldn't be the exact same
:21:27. > :21:30.benefits. It may be free and a good deal, but it is not the same
:21:31. > :21:34.benefits. That can only come by membership of the single market. We
:21:35. > :21:39.cannot remain members of the single market. One Government priority is
:21:40. > :21:44.to establish our own UK immigration policy, we can't do that and be in
:21:45. > :21:47.the single market, so we have to leave. I'm not arguing with that,
:21:48. > :21:52.but I would like to address that if you accept that, you cannot then say
:21:53. > :21:56.that however good the freight free Dell, and it may be a bad one or a
:21:57. > :22:04.good one, however God, it cannot deliver the exact same -- however
:22:05. > :22:09.good, it cannot deliver the exact same benefits. I would like to start
:22:10. > :22:12.by saying that is our ambition. Why would the EU get was all the
:22:13. > :22:16.benefits of the single market without demanding any of the
:22:17. > :22:21.conditions, the four major conditions? They might because we
:22:22. > :22:25.buy more from them than we sell to them, so European companies who want
:22:26. > :22:30.to achieve maximum access to the UK market will be arguing equally that
:22:31. > :22:36.they should have that. Let me ask you this, John Whittingdale, then I
:22:37. > :22:41.will go back to Owen Smith: The Donald Tusk statement recognises the
:22:42. > :22:45.potential for a transitional arrangement after the two years of
:22:46. > :22:48.the Brexit thought, not an implementation, but a transitional
:22:49. > :22:54.arrangement. But it does say that the European Court's jurisdiction
:22:55. > :22:58.would have to remain, and it also implies that free movement would
:22:59. > :23:02.continue during that period too. Would you be up for that? At this
:23:03. > :23:07.stage, I don't want a transitional period. I hope we can achieve an
:23:08. > :23:10.agreement within the timescale the Prime Minister has set out, so to
:23:11. > :23:14.start conceding things as part of a transitional agreement when we would
:23:15. > :23:18.hopefully not even require that... The Prime Minister has talked about
:23:19. > :23:23.what she calls an implementation period, so there is clearly a
:23:24. > :23:27.recognition on both sides that it may not all be done within the two
:23:28. > :23:31.years. They may use different words, but they probably amount to pretty
:23:32. > :23:37.much the same thing. These things will have to be thrashed out in the
:23:38. > :23:40.negotiation. We will abide by all our allegations and the European
:23:41. > :23:46.Court of Justice judgments while we are still a member. What happens in
:23:47. > :23:52.the meantime if there is a deal for an implementation period, we will
:23:53. > :23:59.have to negotiate it. It is being called a transitional period, which
:24:00. > :24:04.is different because implementation implies that you have agreed
:24:05. > :24:07.everything but it takes a bit longer to implement. Transitional implies
:24:08. > :24:12.that you leave some things, I would suggest, for that period. Is that
:24:13. > :24:15.how you see it? Yes, it is inevitable almost that this will
:24:16. > :24:20.take longer than two years and there will be some sort of interim,
:24:21. > :24:24.transitional, call it what you want, period in which we pay into the EU
:24:25. > :24:31.and abide by EU rules and regulations. In conclusion, I want
:24:32. > :24:33.to say, one of the things that has been knocked down completely in the
:24:34. > :24:37.statement from Donald Tusk and it needs to be acknowledged by John and
:24:38. > :24:42.others, is that we will not have the same benefits as we enjoy in the
:24:43. > :24:46.single market. They make it very clear, as you put it to him, that if
:24:47. > :24:49.you're not a member of the club, why would you expect the same benefits
:24:50. > :24:55.as those playing their subs -- paying their subs? The Government
:24:56. > :24:58.need to be clear about that. We will have a lesser status and fewer
:24:59. > :25:03.benefits when we leave, and that may well have economic consequences for
:25:04. > :25:11.the country. Ben what do you make of it? While it's clear we won't have
:25:12. > :25:14.the same benefits if we are not in the single market, there are
:25:15. > :25:22.potential positives to that that the Labour Party are not making enough
:25:23. > :25:28.of. There are elements of the Lisbon Treaty covering competition in state
:25:29. > :25:31.aid. The Labour Party policy since Jeremy Corbyn has included a wave of
:25:32. > :25:36.nationalisation, public ownership. They talk about an investment bank
:25:37. > :25:42.to invest in areas of the economy and fund British industry, some of
:25:43. > :25:49.which is prohibited by EU law. The Labour Party could be looking into
:25:50. > :25:53.that. Mr Tusk said that we would need a level playing field and we
:25:54. > :25:58.would have two love died by broadly the same state aid and tax regime as
:25:59. > :26:11.the rest of Europe. -- we would have to abide broadly. He represents the
:26:12. > :26:18.27. Poland is challenging the Val added -- the validity of his
:26:19. > :26:23.presidency and are asking about these mechanisms. It will be
:26:24. > :26:28.negotiated, but Mr Tusk is saying, if you want a good Trego, fine - you
:26:29. > :26:35.have to stick broadly to our state subsidy and fiscal rules. Isabel,
:26:36. > :26:39.what do you think? Millions of people who voted Brexit may be
:26:40. > :26:45.pragmatic and realise that there may need to be some erosion in benefits
:26:46. > :26:48.that we have in terms of the trade deal that struck, and they will feel
:26:49. > :26:57.that is a reasonable price pay for the advantages... Including
:26:58. > :27:01.transitional arrangements during which EU rules would continue to
:27:02. > :27:03.apply? There would be a lot of nerves about a drawn-out
:27:04. > :27:08.transitional period, because it is not the pub business. One other
:27:09. > :27:13.point: What is going on broadly is the EU feels it needs an early win
:27:14. > :27:17.for its people, so they want to come back saying, look, we will charge
:27:18. > :27:23.the UK X amount. We won't have to deliver that money until the entire
:27:24. > :27:28.deal is done, so maybe we need to give them a bit of space. There will
:27:29. > :27:32.be plenty to talk about in the weeks and months ahead. Thank you for
:27:33. > :27:35.joining us this morning, or this afternoon, as it is now.
:27:36. > :27:37.Today Defence Secretary Michael Fallon is meeting his US
:27:38. > :27:40.counterpart, General James Mattis, on his first visit to the UK
:27:41. > :27:44.On matters of defence and security, the US and UK already
:27:45. > :27:45.work closely together, mainly through NATO,
:27:46. > :27:48.an alliance of 28 countries which serves as a bulwark
:27:49. > :27:52.However, the new US administration has been less than enthusiastic
:27:53. > :28:00.Just before he took office, Donald Trump told reporters
:28:01. > :28:02.he thought Nato was "obsolete", a statement that caused
:28:03. > :28:08.However, when Theresa May visited the White House
:28:09. > :28:10.at the end of January, she insisted the new president
:28:11. > :28:21.While the UK has committed to the Nato requirement of spending
:28:22. > :28:23.2% of GDP on defence, it's one of only five
:28:24. > :28:25.countries in the 28-member alliance paying its way.
:28:26. > :28:28.After Angela Merkel visited Washington earlier this month,
:28:29. > :28:32.Trump again rattled the alliance by tweeting that Germany owed "vast
:28:33. > :28:44.sums of money" to Nato and was in the US's debt.
:28:45. > :28:47.That surprised people in Berlin and London too.
:28:48. > :28:52.HQ in Brussels this week, where he'll repeat Trump's
:28:53. > :28:54.demand that allies ramp up their military spending.
:28:55. > :28:56.Meanwhile, just short of 1000 UK army personnel are joining Nato's
:28:57. > :28:59.deployment in Eastern Europe this spring - the majority
:29:00. > :29:06.Well, just a few minutes ago, the Defence Secretaries held a joint
:29:07. > :29:18.Let's hear what James Mattis had to say.
:29:19. > :29:22.Russia's violations of international law are now a matter of record, from
:29:23. > :29:27.what happened in Crimea to other aspects of their behaviour, mucking
:29:28. > :29:31.around inside other people's elections, that sort of thing, so I
:29:32. > :29:37.think the point I would make is that Nato stands united, the
:29:38. > :29:43.transatlantic bond is united. We are going to maintain Article five as
:29:44. > :29:47.the absolute bedrock of the Nato alliance, and we will, as you see
:29:48. > :29:51.with the European reassurance initiative, act accordingly if
:29:52. > :29:58.Russia decides to be a strategic competitor.
:29:59. > :30:02.Article 5 is the principle that an attack on one Nato member is an
:30:03. > :30:03.attack on the whole of Nato. To discuss all that we're joined
:30:04. > :30:06.by Professor Michael Clarke, who's a senior fellow
:30:07. > :30:17.at the Royal United We have heard conflicting voices
:30:18. > :30:20.from the Tramp administration, including from the president
:30:21. > :30:26.himself. Do you have a clear review now, is there any major change in
:30:27. > :30:30.the US' attitude to Nato? No, the things Mr Trump said he said on the
:30:31. > :30:34.campaign trail, mainly, and some pretty dramatic things. Somebody
:30:35. > :30:38.asked him, if the Russians were to attack Europe, would America
:30:39. > :30:44.automatically come to Europe's aid, and he said, it depends, it is
:30:45. > :30:47.conditional. Since then, Mr Tillerson, the Secretary of State,
:30:48. > :30:52.and James matters, have made the sort of statement you would expect
:30:53. > :30:57.them to make, article five, the defence article is solid, that
:30:58. > :31:01.Nato's 's validity is there, but behind all those statements, of
:31:02. > :31:05.course, nobody really knows what Mr Trump is going to think, as
:31:06. > :31:10.president, and he comes to Nato in about eight weeks' time so one of
:31:11. > :31:14.the things Michael Fallon and Jim Mattis will be talking about today
:31:15. > :31:20.is, how are we going to handle this? I think Jim Mattis will be saying,
:31:21. > :31:24.when the boss comes over, this is what you will have to tell him. I
:31:25. > :31:28.think that will be part of the agenda on the talks. For the Trump
:31:29. > :31:32.administration, the real issue when it comes to spending is Germany,
:31:33. > :31:37.because they spent nowhere near 2%, the strongest economy in Europe,
:31:38. > :31:42.they spend nowhere near 2% of GDP, it is about 1.2, 1.3, and a lot of
:31:43. > :31:50.what they spend it on is equipment that doesn't work very well. Angela
:31:51. > :31:53.Merkel said that although she accepts it has to rise to 2%, she is
:31:54. > :32:01.talking about 2024. The Americans say, hold on, you run a budget
:32:02. > :32:07.surplus, we run both as deficits, you have to do more. That will be a
:32:08. > :32:11.big issue. Yes, the Germans won the biggest balance of trade surplus in
:32:12. > :32:15.the world, it is astonishing, and they are on what is now big Nato
:32:16. > :32:20.European average of spending, 1.2, 1.3%, which is very poor, and the
:32:21. > :32:24.Germans have said, of course, we have put a floor under that, it will
:32:25. > :32:28.rise but it will take too long for the Americans. The difference with
:32:29. > :32:33.the Trump administration compared with others, who have said the same
:32:34. > :32:38.thing, is that the belief is that if Nato doesn't deliver quickly,
:32:39. > :32:41.certainly in the first three or four years of the Trump administration,
:32:42. > :32:45.that Donald Trump himself will moderate his commitment, that he
:32:46. > :32:50.will do something about it, whereas previous presidents have just nagged
:32:51. > :32:54.and nagged and not much about it, so in a sense he has frightened the
:32:55. > :32:58.Europeans into taking his demands more seriously. He had beer and
:32:59. > :33:03.predictability on his side, which previous presidents not have.
:33:04. > :33:13.Another big issue, it seems pretty clear that Russia is trying to wean
:33:14. > :33:19.Turkey away from Nato. This it a bit, if not entirely. President
:33:20. > :33:23.Erdogan may be minded to go down that route, he seems pretty out of
:33:24. > :33:27.sorts with Europe these days, particularly after what happened in
:33:28. > :33:32.Holland with his ministers, and it is not clear that the US
:33:33. > :33:37.administration is going to go in and fight for that, I mean not
:33:38. > :33:42.militarily but fight to keep Turkey in Nato. It is no coincidence that
:33:43. > :33:45.Rex Tillerson, who is in Brussels today for his meeting, is on his way
:33:46. > :33:49.back from Ankara. The US is trying to take seriously the idea that we
:33:50. > :33:53.have to persuade Turkey to think again about some other positions it
:33:54. > :33:56.has taken but you are right, President Erdogan is flirting with
:33:57. > :34:01.the idea of real friendship with Russia and this is, remember, an
:34:02. > :34:14.important Nato member, Turkey is important to what happened in the
:34:15. > :34:16.Middle East, in Iraq, very important to what happened in the
:34:17. > :34:19.Mediterranean and President Erdogan is playing off both sides. He is fed
:34:20. > :34:21.up with the European Union, pretty fed up with Nato and there is a
:34:22. > :34:23.temporary alliance, I think it is temporarily, it may last a while,
:34:24. > :34:27.but temporarily between Turkey, Russia and Iran to deal with the
:34:28. > :34:31.Isis crisis and, as Erdogan sees it, the Kurdish crisis, and rather late
:34:32. > :34:36.in the day the US seems to have woken up to the importance of that.
:34:37. > :34:41.Nobody has a voice like the US in persuading Turkey just to think
:34:42. > :34:46.again about this rather wild card diplomacy that Erdogan is following.
:34:47. > :34:51.There is a big issue therefore Europe and Nato, particularly for
:34:52. > :34:59.the EU, when we leave the EU, because once we leave, 80% of Nato
:35:00. > :35:03.spending and Nato is fundamentally there to protect the EU and
:35:04. > :35:09.countries around it, 80% of the spending will be from countries
:35:10. > :35:13.outside the EU. That is surely unsustainable? It will be an
:35:14. > :35:17.interesting situation for sure, and more than that, the countries that
:35:18. > :35:21.can create frameworks, that organise Nato forces, our America, Canada,
:35:22. > :35:28.Britain and Germany, so in a few years only one of those countries,
:35:29. > :35:34.Germany, is in the EU, so we need to think differently about European
:35:35. > :35:38.defence. The idea that Nato and EU form complementary activities, work
:35:39. > :35:42.together and so on, that has been the narrative for 20 odd years. We
:35:43. > :35:45.have do start looking differently because Nato certainly needs new
:35:46. > :35:50.leadership, Britain is trying to provide some of that leadership, but
:35:51. > :35:55.I have to say that until we know what the American attitude is, more
:35:56. > :36:00.clearly, it is not obvious to us how we can work that three. Isabel,
:36:01. > :36:04.should we be concerned about Nato? Absolutely, it is something I am
:36:05. > :36:08.looking into with Lord Ashcroft at the moment, writing a book on the
:36:09. > :36:13.state of the Armed Forces and the strength of our alliances. I think
:36:14. > :36:16.there are many fractures within Nato that are not necessarily widely
:36:17. > :36:21.appreciated, different factions with different agendas. I think these
:36:22. > :36:26.exercises that we have, Nato deployments, are quite tokenistic,
:36:27. > :36:31.there is no supply line, no readiness there to take on a Russian
:36:32. > :36:36.aggression in the Baltics, and obviously this issue with Turkey is
:36:37. > :36:39.extremely worrying. Then, the Morning Star has traditionally been
:36:40. > :36:43.more interested in the defence of Russia than Nato, you have always
:36:44. > :36:49.been against Nato, so you must be quite happy that Nato is we? I would
:36:50. > :36:54.not phrases like that, Andrew. We would certainly say Nato is an
:36:55. > :36:58.aggressive alliance, we heard the term sphere and unpredictability
:36:59. > :37:04.used about President Trump earlier, I think those would equally apply to
:37:05. > :37:07.President Erdogan who is fighting a vicious war against his own
:37:08. > :37:12.population... He's not doing that under the umbrella of Nato. Article
:37:13. > :37:18.five ties Britain to the decisions of Government who are Nato members.
:37:19. > :37:22.Who has Nato attacked in Europe? Nato has not attacked countries in
:37:23. > :37:25.Europe but it was heavily involved in the dismemberment of Yugoslavia
:37:26. > :37:34.in the 90s, the destruction of Namibia, which is outside Europe,
:37:35. > :37:39.but this alliance unites us to those objectives and I think Britain would
:37:40. > :37:45.be safer + Nato. That is a pretty big position! Explain how we would
:37:46. > :37:48.be safer without the protection of the Nato alliance. It risks dragging
:37:49. > :37:54.us into conflicts such as Syria by the Turkish Government is... It is
:37:55. > :37:58.your friend is the Russians who are in Syria. The Russians have
:37:59. > :38:03.interviewed, but the Turks have also intervened. We have not got troops
:38:04. > :38:10.in Syria. My point was that we risk being dragged into a war by end Nato
:38:11. > :38:14.ally. So you think Nato has played no part in keeping the western
:38:15. > :38:19.Europe democratic and free during the years of the Soviet threat? I
:38:20. > :38:23.would say Nato was founded before the Warsaw Pact and was a threat to
:38:24. > :38:28.eastern Europe and not the other way round. It was formed in response to
:38:29. > :38:34.Soviet tanks taking control of all of Eastern Europe. It was formed
:38:35. > :38:37.before the Warsaw Pact as an aggressive alliance. The Warsaw Pact
:38:38. > :38:43.was formed after the Soviets had taken over all of Eastern Europe!
:38:44. > :38:47.The Warsaw Pact was an Eastern Alliance, the equivalent of Nato. I
:38:48. > :38:51.think everyone will be relieved that you are not running the country.
:38:52. > :38:52.Professor Clark, I would like your reaction to the story we are moving
:38:53. > :38:55.onto, stay with us. Hundreds of British Muslims
:38:56. > :38:57.have travelled to join But what about those
:38:58. > :39:02.fighting on the other side? A bit like joining the Foreign
:39:03. > :39:07.Legion, increasingly we've seen So, how should those fighters be
:39:08. > :39:11.treated when they return? Kurdish military groups in Syria
:39:12. > :39:18.and Iraq are engaged in a bitter They are widely recognised
:39:19. > :39:28.as the most effective fighting force But this is also considered to be
:39:29. > :39:33.a Socialist movement, establishing a system of democracy
:39:34. > :39:40.in this troubled region. And, thanks to social media,
:39:41. > :39:42.would-be fighters from the UK have been able to make contact
:39:43. > :39:47.and join them. My name is Zaidan Azlin,
:39:48. > :39:49.Kurdish name is Rezat Rojava. Those who've left the comfort
:39:50. > :39:55.of Britain to take up arms here in Syria include a former chef,
:39:56. > :40:02.an IT worker and a care assistant. Some of those who return
:40:03. > :40:11.after fighting against IS are now being arrested by counterterror
:40:12. > :40:13.police when they arrive So, is fighting abroad for anyone
:40:14. > :40:19.apart from the British Army I've come to meet John Harding,
:40:20. > :40:26.who has fought in Syria twice. He became the commander
:40:27. > :40:29.of a medical unit helping I'm not there to kill people,
:40:30. > :40:35.I'm there to liberate. Everybody has the right
:40:36. > :40:37.to live freely. Daesh have taken that
:40:38. > :40:40.right away from people. I, along with some other people,
:40:41. > :40:42.are protecting that right. You don't get any
:40:43. > :40:48.pleasure from this. When John returned a few weeks ago,
:40:49. > :40:59.he was detained at the airport and says he's been told he is under
:41:00. > :41:01.investigation by I was asked to speak to a couple
:41:02. > :41:08.of officers from special branch, who questioned me under suspicion
:41:09. > :41:13.of preparing for acts of terrorism. I think they have to make sure,
:41:14. > :41:20.but I don't think it There would be no need for this
:41:21. > :41:24.waste of public funds The YPG, a military
:41:25. > :41:35.unit formed to defend It's difficult to verify numbers,
:41:36. > :41:41.but the YPG says hundreds of western volunteers from many different
:41:42. > :41:44.countries have fought with them. The YPG is not a proscribed
:41:45. > :41:48.terror group in the UK, but it is considered a terror
:41:49. > :41:50.organisation by Turkey. The difficulty from the point of
:41:51. > :41:53.view of MI5 and the counterterrorist police is that the YPG has links
:41:54. > :42:00.to a similar organisation, called the PKK, which is classed
:42:01. > :42:03.by the European Union, the United States and ourselves
:42:04. > :42:08.as a terrorist organisation. Before 2013, David Cameron
:42:09. > :42:13.himself was not sure It's become OK to support
:42:14. > :42:30.the Kurds, very brave people, but you kind of break a taboo,
:42:31. > :42:33.a barrier to kill other people, The first time I went home,
:42:34. > :42:37.the British police, they arrested me and accused me of terrorism
:42:38. > :42:40.for fighting against Daesh. When this man from Nottinghamshire
:42:41. > :42:42.spent months on bail after his return last year,
:42:43. > :42:45.his local Conservative MP, Robert Jenrick, called him
:42:46. > :42:47.brave and urged police If this is something that I believe
:42:48. > :42:51.in, then I need to do it. And Kimi Taylor, the first British
:42:52. > :42:54.woman fighting with the Kurds, says her family have now been told
:42:55. > :42:57.they could be prosecuted. There's clear warnings
:42:58. > :42:59.from the Government that British fighters in Syria risk breaking
:43:00. > :43:06.counterterror laws, But evidence shows that's unlikely
:43:07. > :43:17.to put off those who continue Whatever measure you take,
:43:18. > :43:21.as long as there is a problem there, as long as there is a war there,
:43:22. > :43:24.as long as there is injustice being done, there are a lot
:43:25. > :43:26.of humanitarian people And John Harding is already
:43:27. > :43:30.planning to head back. There are other ways
:43:31. > :43:32.to help - why do this? If fighting alongside the Kurds
:43:33. > :43:35.is breaking UK terror laws, They've publicly said that the Kurds
:43:36. > :43:39.are our biggest allies in the fight against Isis,
:43:40. > :43:43.and it's the right thing to do. And Michael Clarke from
:43:44. > :43:56.Rusi is still with us. Professor Clark, we have been most
:43:57. > :43:59.concerned about British citizen to have gone to fight for Isis and how
:44:00. > :44:04.we handle them as they return to this country and how big a terror
:44:05. > :44:08.threat they could represent. How do we handle those who, if I can put it
:44:09. > :44:12.this way, went to fight for the other side? It is more of a
:44:13. > :44:16.difficult one. Actually there are very few cases, their only seem to
:44:17. > :44:28.be a dozen or couple of dozen people in this category, whereas seven or
:44:29. > :44:31.800 people have gone to fight for Isis or al-Nusra, the Al-Qaeda
:44:32. > :44:34.related group. So it is a small group of people who have gone to the
:44:35. > :44:37.Y PGP today are difficult cases. Technically they have not broken the
:44:38. > :44:39.law, the Y PGE is not a terrorist organisation according to Europe,
:44:40. > :44:44.the United Nations or the United States, but sebum -- some people
:44:45. > :44:47.might claim to be working with the YPG when they have been working with
:44:48. > :44:53.someone else, and also as your report said the YPG does relate to
:44:54. > :44:57.the PKK, which is a proscribed terrorist organisation, so anyone
:44:58. > :45:02.who goes to fight for the YPG has to accept they will be a person of
:45:03. > :45:06.interest when they come back and the onus is on them to show they did
:45:07. > :45:13.work with the YPG and did not engage with terrorism in any other respect.
:45:14. > :45:17.At the moment, counterterrorism forces seem to deal with this on a
:45:18. > :45:21.case-by-case basis, as you said the numbers are not huge, but fewer
:45:22. > :45:26.people than went to fight for Islamic State. If that's the correct
:45:27. > :45:29.way to proceed at the moment, on a case-by-case basis? I guess it will
:45:30. > :45:33.be because we are only dealing with a handful of people and all of the
:45:34. > :45:37.cases are different, people go for different reasons and who knows
:45:38. > :45:40.where they will end up? If they stay for six months, a year, if they stay
:45:41. > :45:45.alive, they may end up working with all sorts of groups, there are so
:45:46. > :45:54.many groups operating at the moment that it is logical services will be
:45:55. > :45:57.interested in any British nationals who, for whatever reason, find
:45:58. > :45:59.themselves in Syria or Iraq in the middle of the fighting. Professor
:46:00. > :46:01.Clark, thanks for joining us on these topics.
:46:02. > :46:03.The Green Party's Spring Conference is getting under way
:46:04. > :46:06.The party's co-leaders, Jonathan Bartley and Caroline Lucas,
:46:07. > :46:09.will be getting to the stage in just over an hour's time.
:46:10. > :46:11.In their joint address, they'll say that the Government's Brexit
:46:12. > :46:14.strategy is "extreme" and that it amounts to a "right-wing coup".
:46:15. > :46:20.Joining me now is the party's deputy leader, Amelia Womack.
:46:21. > :46:29.Amelia Womack, you're are against Brexit, and many people are, and
:46:30. > :46:35.some people call it a hard Brexit, but you call it extreme - why? Good
:46:36. > :46:40.afternoon, Andrew, and thank you for having me today. It is extreme
:46:41. > :46:43.because, frankly, nobody voted for this type of Brexit, taking us out
:46:44. > :46:49.of the single market, out of the customs union come a potentially
:46:50. > :46:54.turning the UK into a tax haven. We have people saying there is going to
:46:55. > :47:01.be a bonfire of red tape, and we know that that red tape is our human
:47:02. > :47:04.rights and workers' rights and environmental protections. We need
:47:05. > :47:07.to be ensuring we do not allow Ukip and the Conservatives, some of the
:47:08. > :47:12.right-wing press, to destroy those rights that protect people. If any
:47:13. > :47:18.of that was true, and I would suggest all of it is contentious,
:47:19. > :47:23.but if any of it was true, why has the European Union reaction been so
:47:24. > :47:30.conciliatory? Could you repeat that? If any of what you have said is
:47:31. > :47:35.true, why is the European Union reaction so conciliar Tore, saying,
:47:36. > :47:45.yes, we can do a deal on this? It is about -- so conciliatory. It is
:47:46. > :47:51.about having a Great Repeal Bill that is transparent, not one that
:47:52. > :47:58.has holes in it. I will attempt to get you to answer this. My question
:47:59. > :48:02.was, if it is so extreme, why does the European Union in its response
:48:03. > :48:07.think it can do business with us? We can have trade deals, but that is
:48:08. > :48:10.not the same as being in a single market and protecting those rights.
:48:11. > :48:14.It is not the same position to be in, and we can be talking about
:48:15. > :48:19.deals, but we do not know what is on the table. That is why we are also
:48:20. > :48:23.talking about a ratification referendum, making sure the EU
:48:24. > :48:28.referendum was just the beginning of the process. It is this word
:48:29. > :48:34.extreme. You bandy about words like extreme and right-wing coup. Where
:48:35. > :48:45.is the right wing to? I missed that bit. Who meant that? When we talk
:48:46. > :48:49.about a right-wing coup, it is about something that people didn't vote
:48:50. > :48:59.for, that the Leave campaign did not say we believe the single market.
:49:00. > :49:01.Guess they did. Bright white -- the Conservative Party was elected
:49:02. > :49:08.without having these policies in its manifesto. An extreme Brexit, hard
:49:09. > :49:15.Brexit, soft Brexit, it was not on the ballot paper am not something
:49:16. > :49:18.people specifically voted for. The Prime Minister said, I want the
:49:19. > :49:24.United Kingdom to be merged stronger, fairer, more united, more
:49:25. > :49:30.outward looking than ever before. I want us to be secure, prosperous and
:49:31. > :49:35.tolerant - what is the extreme bit in that? It also feels like they
:49:36. > :49:39.have a blank cheque to do what they like, to push through certain
:49:40. > :49:47.policies as a result of the vehicle of Brexit. On the Prime Minister's
:49:48. > :49:53.words, the words that she said there, which bit was extreme? It is
:49:54. > :50:02.like she has a blank cheque, because even though those words might be
:50:03. > :50:07.taken lightly, reducing tax, for instance, where does that end when
:50:08. > :50:11.we need those taxes for those services that deliver the way this
:50:12. > :50:15.country works. Potentially, we're turning the UK into a tax haven.
:50:16. > :50:21.Labour has accused the Government of that. The Government has never used
:50:22. > :50:24.these words. You used the word extreme, but let us look at the
:50:25. > :50:27.position of the Government on a number of things at the moment. It
:50:28. > :50:33.wants to close as possible relationship with the EU. It is in
:50:34. > :50:39.favour of continued participation in Nato, in favour of free trade, and
:50:40. > :50:46.it wants to manage migration but not stop it. Your party is against Nato,
:50:47. > :50:52.against defence spending, in favour of no controls and immigration, and
:50:53. > :50:58.now largely against free trade - I wonder who the extreme party really
:50:59. > :51:02.is. I would suggest it is you. You said that Prime Minister is talking
:51:03. > :51:08.about tolerance, but she is also talking about using migrants as a
:51:09. > :51:11.bargaining chip. Every time I ask a question, you answer one I have not
:51:12. > :51:18.asked. I am saying to you that your party's policies, against
:51:19. > :51:21.globalisation and free trade, defence spending, against Nato and
:51:22. > :51:29.any control on immigration whatsoever, that is the extreme
:51:30. > :51:34.policies. We're not not against migration, it is about a more human
:51:35. > :51:38.form of migration that makes sure families are not separated, that we
:51:39. > :51:46.can have nurses in the NHS who are not deported. How much control on
:51:47. > :51:49.immigration would you have? Making sure we are reuniting families, not
:51:50. > :51:55.deporting people who don't earn enough, people in our NHS,
:51:56. > :51:59.delivering fundamental services. Great games, but they are not
:52:00. > :52:04.controls. It is still not an open borders policy, and I think that at
:52:05. > :52:09.the moment, having an arbitrary tick box exercise for migrants isn't
:52:10. > :52:14.working. It is ignoring the fact that many of the problems we have in
:52:15. > :52:20.the UK are as a result of failure of Government policy. We have not built
:52:21. > :52:23.in a housing, for instance. We don't have a proper living wage. You would
:52:24. > :52:29.have the border open, but as many people say, we should build more
:52:30. > :52:31.homes, more schools, have better public services for the people
:52:32. > :52:36.coming to this country, but you would not control the numbers, would
:52:37. > :52:41.you? We would make sure that families were reunited. It is a
:52:42. > :52:46.long-term ambition. As a long-term ambition... It is not what we're
:52:47. > :52:51.talking about at the moment. We're talking about making sure we're not
:52:52. > :52:57.stopping people coming as a result of arbitrary reasons. You might have
:52:58. > :53:02.seen that at our conference a woman who was turned away for a visa
:53:03. > :53:07.because she was single. Because she was single? Because she wasn't in a
:53:08. > :53:14.relationship was the reason given by the Home Office, making her unable
:53:15. > :53:17.to attend a conference in the UK. The Government says we are open for
:53:18. > :53:22.business, but it is a conference like this that would show we were
:53:23. > :53:26.open for business. Amelia Womack, I will have to stop you. Enjoy the
:53:27. > :53:27.rest of your conference. Thank you for being with us.
:53:28. > :53:30.What will be the most obvious sign that the UK has left the EU?
:53:31. > :53:35.For some people, it'll be the front cover of our passports,
:53:36. > :53:39.which will no longer have to bear the words "European Union".
:53:40. > :53:42.There have been calls to go back to the dark-blue cover of old,
:53:43. > :53:45.but an online design magazine is running a competition
:53:46. > :53:50.to see if there are any other ideas out there.
:53:51. > :53:52.Adam's been to hang out with the north London
:53:53. > :54:00.The uber-trendy offices of website Dezeen, where they've been inundated
:54:01. > :54:06.with pictures for a Brexit passport for professionals and amateurs from
:54:07. > :54:08.-- with pictures for a Brexit passport by
:54:09. > :54:09.professionals and amateurs from
:54:10. > :54:14.This one reinvents the whole idea of a passport, which is usually
:54:15. > :54:17.This is designed to be worn with pride and
:54:18. > :54:19.to start conversations with our friends overseas.
:54:20. > :54:21.This one just reinvents what the colour of a
:54:22. > :54:24.This is very colourful, but actually, all of
:54:25. > :54:26.these patterns are based on geological survey drawings of
:54:27. > :54:29.Another slightly subversive one, this one
:54:30. > :54:32.represents the 52% who voted out, and the 48% who voted in.
:54:33. > :54:36.This one treats Brexit as a blank canvas, so
:54:37. > :54:42...very, calm, quiet passport with a white cover on it,
:54:43. > :54:50.And a faded-out Union Jack, but the whole idea, it's, like,
:54:51. > :54:58.This one is very optimistic, because it does actually show Loch Ness.
:54:59. > :55:04.Sifting through the short list, an esteemed panel of
:55:05. > :55:06.designers, an academic, a journalist, and the boss of the
:55:07. > :55:09.Design Museum, where the winner will go on display next month.
:55:10. > :55:11.What do you think about our current passport?
:55:12. > :55:16.It's been carefully jollied up with scenes
:55:17. > :55:18.of English, Scottish, Welsh
:55:19. > :55:24.and Irish landscapes, and with charming cottages and flowers.
:55:25. > :55:26.You compare it with the Americans, who
:55:27. > :55:30.have astronauts, pioneers and people with pitchforks.
:55:31. > :55:33.It's all just a bit of fun, because it will be up to the
:55:34. > :55:37.Home Office to choose the look of any future passport, but there's
:55:38. > :55:40.good news if you want to bring back the old dark-blue one - the
:55:41. > :55:43.international rules say a country can choose any colour or material
:55:44. > :55:50.they like for the front cover, as long as it is a standard size.
:55:51. > :56:00.I used to have one of these passports, but it wouldn't fit into
:56:01. > :56:04.the electronic machines today, would it? We can't go back to the blue
:56:05. > :56:08.ones. I don't want one and never had one. How about gold or silver,
:56:09. > :56:15.something that shows how our future is looking? Golden and bright.
:56:16. > :56:22.Orange or something. I would be happy with red. Should be change it?
:56:23. > :56:28.The European Union bit has to come off if we're out of the EU, but is
:56:29. > :56:31.that all we should do? I think the current passport is quite nice. It
:56:32. > :56:43.has nice scenes from around Britain in it. Has it? Faded on the inside
:56:44. > :56:47.pages. Yours has too many stamps! We will see if we change the passport.
:56:48. > :56:50.Not the highest priority at the moment, but it is symbolic to some
:56:51. > :56:52.people, I can understand that. Time now for our round-up
:56:53. > :56:55.of the political week. Here's Ellie Price with the top
:56:56. > :56:59.stories, in just sixty seconds. Forget Dear John, this
:57:00. > :57:02.was the Dear Don letter that Britain's Brussels ambassador
:57:03. > :57:05.handed Theresa May's missive to EU Council
:57:06. > :57:09.President Donald Tusk. Can I add to this,
:57:10. > :57:13.we already miss you. The Prime Minister legged it up
:57:14. > :57:20.to Glasgow to meet the First The next day, the Scottish
:57:21. > :57:27.Parliament approved Nicola Sturgeon's call for a second
:57:28. > :57:29.referendum on independence. Amber Rudd demanded a crackdown
:57:30. > :57:32.on terrorists using social media and was ridiculed for her
:57:33. > :57:34.grasp of techno speak. The best people who understand
:57:35. > :57:37.the technology, who understand the necessary hashtags
:57:38. > :57:40.to stop this stuff even being put up, not just taking it down,
:57:41. > :57:43.but stopping it getting up The boss of NHS England says
:57:44. > :57:46.patients face longer waits for operations in a trade-off
:57:47. > :57:49.for improved care in other areas. And today, the Chancellor
:57:50. > :57:51.authorised the sale of the Bradford Bingley
:57:52. > :57:54.mortgages it took on during the financial crisis, earning
:57:55. > :57:57.the taxpayer nearly ?12 billion. There's just time before we go
:57:58. > :58:14.to find out the answer to our quiz. This is the photo that was released
:58:15. > :58:17.of Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon signing the letter
:58:18. > :58:19.to Theresa May calling for a second But who has Scottish Conservative
:58:20. > :58:22.leader Ruth Davidson Is it: a) Theresa May,
:58:23. > :58:25.b) Margaret Thatcher, c) Angela Merkel, or d) Melania
:58:26. > :58:40.Trump. Thatcher. It is. Let us show you the
:58:41. > :58:46.picture for the similarities. That is the picture we are looking for.
:58:47. > :58:50.She is on the sofa, like Nicola Sturgeon. I'm sure we can agree they
:58:51. > :58:58.were both highly post pictures. Thank you to Ben and Isabel. I will
:58:59. > :58:59.be back on the Sunday Politics this Sunday on BBC One at 11am. Hope you