:00:39. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:42.Jeremy Corbyn kicks off Labour's election campaign,
:00:43. > :00:45.promising to take on what he calls the "cosy cartel" of "wealth
:00:46. > :00:48.extractors" and saying he refuses to "doff his cap" to "powerful
:00:49. > :00:55.The Green Party also launch their election
:00:56. > :01:00.Their co-leader, Caroline Lucas, joins me live.
:01:01. > :01:02.Parliament enters what's called the 'wash-up',
:01:03. > :01:05.with just a few days left to run, what legislation will get rushed
:01:06. > :01:11.And Paul Nuttall's got just six weeks to prove
:01:12. > :01:15.himself as Ukip leader, according to Nigel Farage.
:01:16. > :01:26.We'll assess the party's prospects now that Brexit is under way.
:01:27. > :01:31.And with us for the whole of the programme today,
:01:32. > :01:33.the deputy chair of Ukip, Suzanne Evans.
:01:34. > :01:43.Nigel Farage, was asked if he was going to stand
:01:44. > :01:53.I've got to weigh up, how do I best help
:01:54. > :01:57.Do I do it by standing for the House of Commons, or do I do it
:01:58. > :02:00.by staying as leader of a group in the European Parliament, where
:02:01. > :02:03.ultimately, there's going to be a veto over the Brexit deal?
:02:04. > :02:05.I will decide over the next two days.
:02:06. > :02:09.I'm being pushed and pulled in different directions.
:02:10. > :02:11.I'm really, genuinely, at this moment in time,
:02:12. > :02:18.There we go - he is yet to make up his mind. Would you urge him to run?
:02:19. > :02:24.Yes, he should run again in South Thanet, Wade tried before. The
:02:25. > :02:29.Conservatives seem to behave -- seemed to behave rather badly in
:02:30. > :02:34.that election, according to reports. This is the issue of election
:02:35. > :02:38.misspending in 2015. Absolutely, so did the Conservatives have an unfair
:02:39. > :02:43.advantage? Nigel Farage missed it marginally, so let's have another
:02:44. > :02:51.go. If he did, and I know he always follows your advice, hangs on your
:02:52. > :02:54.every word, if he does run, it's a constituency where he ran before. As
:02:55. > :02:58.you say, there were problems with it and he may think he has a choice
:02:59. > :03:05.this time. It is close to London and the national media, so Nigel Farage
:03:06. > :03:10.becomes the face of Ukip in this election, not Paul Nuttall. I don't
:03:11. > :03:15.think so. We are deciding on candidate selection, what are our
:03:16. > :03:19.target seats, and we have done some work already. I think that South
:03:20. > :03:23.Thanet has to be one of those seats. We want someone reputable to run
:03:24. > :03:28.that. Should Paul Nuttall have another go at Stoke, where he lost?
:03:29. > :03:34.He is thinking about where best this time. He was talking before about
:03:35. > :03:39.standing in Andy Burnham's seat. Maybe Paul will feel that that is a
:03:40. > :03:44.better fit for him. Stoke was an unusual situation, wasn't it? Wets
:03:45. > :03:52.what about you? I won't be standing anywhere because -- what about you?
:03:53. > :03:58.I won't be standing anywhere. Why not? It will be head down from
:03:59. > :04:05.Monday and I would have time to do anything else. And it will be
:04:06. > :04:12.shorter this time? The manifesto was one of the shorter ones. We had some
:04:13. > :04:15.pretty pictures in it, too! Know we know you are writing the manifesto.
:04:16. > :04:19.The question for today is: Which leader's child has been
:04:20. > :04:24.pictured playing football in an Arsenal shirt?
:04:25. > :04:28.I am told that is something to do with association football.
:04:29. > :04:32.c) France's Francois Hollande, or d) Poland's Beata Szydlo?
:04:33. > :04:35.At the end of the show, Suzanne will hopefully give us
:04:36. > :04:50.Do you have any idea? I think I know even less about football than you
:04:51. > :04:52.do. That would put you into the negative category.
:04:53. > :04:55.So, Jeremy Corbyn kicked off Labour's election campaign this
:04:56. > :04:57.morning with a clear message: Don't write off Labour just yet.
:04:58. > :05:00.He told supporters in Westminster that while the mainstream media had
:05:01. > :05:02.written off the party's chances in the general election,
:05:03. > :05:07.he doesn't "play by the rules", and that he expected to pull off
:05:08. > :05:11.a dramatic turn-around in the party's fortunes.
:05:12. > :05:15.He took aim at big businesses, too, warning the likes of Southern Rail
:05:16. > :05:19.and Sir Philip Green that they should be 'afraid'
:05:20. > :05:25.Here's a little of what he had to say.
:05:26. > :05:28.Labour is the party that will put the interests of the majority first,
:05:29. > :05:31.while the Tories only really care about those who already have so
:05:32. > :05:48.That is why we - yes, we - will prove the establishment experts
:05:49. > :05:50.wrong and change the direction of this election, because the British
:05:51. > :05:54.people know that they are the true wealth creators, held back by a
:05:55. > :05:55.system rigged for the wealth extractors.
:05:56. > :05:57.Theresa May will insist that this is an election about
:05:58. > :06:01.She will try to downplay the issues that affect people's lives
:06:02. > :06:04.every day and instead turn the election into an ego trip
:06:05. > :06:08.about her own failing leadership, and the
:06:09. > :06:19.machinations of the coming negotiations in Brussels.
:06:20. > :06:21.It is only Labour that will focus on what kind
:06:22. > :06:24.of country we want to have after Brexit.
:06:25. > :06:27.In the coming weeks, Labour will lay out our policies to unlock
:06:28. > :06:30.opportunities for every single person in this country.
:06:31. > :06:35.We will focus on giving people real control
:06:36. > :06:41.over their own lives, and make sure that everyone reaps a just reward
:06:42. > :06:49.That was the Labour leader this morning.
:06:50. > :07:03.Mr Corbyn said that there is a rigged system, rigged to favour the
:07:04. > :07:09.wealth extractors. Who are they? In relation to the world of work, from
:07:10. > :07:14.which I came - it cannot be right that the percentage of profit going
:07:15. > :07:23.on wages has fallen dramatically but the percentage of profit going on
:07:24. > :07:29.top earners has increased dramatically. Boardroom excess. That
:07:30. > :07:32.is a global phenomenon on. I am in favour of rewarding success and I
:07:33. > :07:35.have worked with some good chief executives in my time, but it cannot
:07:36. > :07:40.be right. And understandably, working people resent that and want
:07:41. > :07:45.a fair share. I understand the argument. He talked about
:07:46. > :07:50.individuals and corporations as wealth extractors. Give me an
:07:51. > :08:01.example of one. Philip Green, for example. Is an individual. To bring
:08:02. > :08:07.alive what he is saying, you need to refer to a real example. I have met
:08:08. > :08:12.with BHS workers who work, some of them, 20 and 30 years and lost their
:08:13. > :08:23.jobs... Philip Green is an individual. Mr Corbyn said Philip
:08:24. > :08:29.Green should be worried by a Labour Government - why? Bad employers,
:08:30. > :08:35.wealth extractors, who treat working people shamefully, yes, they should
:08:36. > :08:39.be. What will you do to him? We will spell out in our manifesto the
:08:40. > :08:43.issues that will be central for us. You will mention him in the
:08:44. > :08:49.manifesto? We are determined to ensure that the voice of working
:08:50. > :08:52.people is properly heard... I understand, but why should Philip
:08:53. > :08:59.Green be worried? What do you have in store for him and the boss of
:09:00. > :09:06.Sports Direct? Wait and see what is in the manifesto. Do you know? Yes,
:09:07. > :09:14.we are sending an unambiguous message, which is that we want good
:09:15. > :09:19.employers to sexy, but we don't want ad employers to continue. All will
:09:20. > :09:22.be revealed. Let's look at some of Britain's big companies to find out
:09:23. > :09:30.how many wealth extractors there are around. Tesco? That is a company
:09:31. > :09:35.that has done very well. The relationship between Tesco and its
:09:36. > :09:40.workforce and their trade union is quite good. Is it a wealth
:09:41. > :09:46.extractor? It has sometimes not paid enough to the people it employs. So
:09:47. > :09:51.it is? Would ie equate Tesco with Sir Philip Green? Not for one
:09:52. > :09:56.moment. But you can't change the economy the way you want on the
:09:57. > :10:02.basis of Philip Green, no matter what it is that you have in store.
:10:03. > :10:06.British Telecom? It sometimes leaves something to be desired. Is it a
:10:07. > :10:12.wealth extractor? You are not getting the point, that our
:10:13. > :10:17.criticism and our concern on behalf of working people is, those who
:10:18. > :10:21.extract wealth wrongly and at the expense of working people, and who
:10:22. > :10:26.do not treat their workforce fairly or pay them a decent living wage. I
:10:27. > :10:30.understand the argument. I'm trying to find out who you have in mind.
:10:31. > :10:39.I've given a couple of examples already. British Gas? In my
:10:40. > :10:43.experience in the world of work, I charge a group that brought together
:10:44. > :10:47.public and private employers. We used to have good contractors
:10:48. > :10:52.complaining about being undercut by bad ones, so we stand for any
:10:53. > :10:57.economy of fair treatment, and also fair competition. You have said
:10:58. > :11:00.that. I am trying to find out who is in the cross hairs, because there is
:11:01. > :11:06.a lot hanging on this, and it would be good to know who you think is
:11:07. > :11:12.part of a rigged system that is a cosy cartel. Let me ask again - is
:11:13. > :11:16.Bill Gates a wealth extractor? He is a man who has made a fortune, but he
:11:17. > :11:24.is one of the most outstanding men in the world... Is he a wealth
:11:25. > :11:30.extractor or not? His wealth has been spent well, not just on his
:11:31. > :11:36.employees... Is he not a wealth extractor? Also, the outstanding
:11:37. > :11:42.work he has done as a great philanthropist. I know all about
:11:43. > :11:45.Bill Gates. You're not getting the point... The point is, you are not
:11:46. > :11:52.answering the question. Let me try again, because Mr Corbyn has divided
:11:53. > :11:56.the system into wealth creators and wealth extractors. Is Bill Gates a
:11:57. > :12:02.wealth extractor? You are not getting the point. I am not getting
:12:03. > :12:06.the answer. We are in favour of the creation of wealth. So is Bill Gates
:12:07. > :12:16.a wealth creator or extractor? Which one? What we want is any economy
:12:17. > :12:20.where you no longer get the roads undercutting the reputable. British
:12:21. > :12:28.Aerospace? It is a dam good company and I have worked with them over the
:12:29. > :12:32.years. Marks Spencer? I can see what you are trying to do, but you
:12:33. > :12:40.are missing the point. Let me give you this example: I remember, why
:12:41. > :12:45.not name it? The company ISS, one of the biggest contract is in the
:12:46. > :12:51.world. They said, we want to be good, we want to be better, but our
:12:52. > :12:55.problem is, we operate in a competitive environment where we are
:12:56. > :12:59.undercut by the rogues, so what we want to do, therefore, is to
:13:00. > :13:04.transform the nature of the economy so that good companies create wealth
:13:05. > :13:09.and succeed, so that workers benefit as a consequence. You have said that
:13:10. > :13:18.five times, so, other than Philip Green, in your view, who else is a
:13:19. > :13:25.world extractor? -- wealth extractor? We will say more in our
:13:26. > :13:31.manifesto. So you can say anything other than a high-profile
:13:32. > :13:37.businessman, a Buccaneer? Those who behave badly should be named and
:13:38. > :13:42.shamed. Let me try one more time - who else is a wealth extractor? You
:13:43. > :13:47.just have to wait forearm in a faster. Will you name them? We want
:13:48. > :13:55.to send the clearest possible message about the kind of economy we
:13:56. > :14:00.should become a -- economy we should be, what type of country we should
:14:01. > :14:05.be. Let me try something else. Do you agree with the Shadow Chancellor
:14:06. > :14:10.that anyone earning over ?70,000 a year is rich? They are not poor, are
:14:11. > :14:18.they? The average wage is ?27,000 a year. To earn ?70,000 a year is to
:14:19. > :14:27.live comfortably. Comfortably - MPs are over 70,000. Are you rich? I was
:14:28. > :14:32.brought up in poverty. We were all brought up in different
:14:33. > :14:39.circumstances. Are you rich? I get a very good wage. But are you rich? I
:14:40. > :14:42.don't feel that I am, no. Why has the Shadow Chancellor said that
:14:43. > :14:48.being rich means earning about 70,000? He is making a point about
:14:49. > :14:53.what type of economy we should have. Instead of doing what should be
:14:54. > :14:57.done, which is a fair deal for the great majority of Britain, you have
:14:58. > :15:04.got a Government that has been systematically, particularly at the
:15:05. > :15:08.top, handing out tax breaks to the rich, the corporation tax, the top
:15:09. > :15:12.rate of tax, all of the things that have made those with a lot of money
:15:13. > :15:16.yet more wealthy, but the great majority of ordinary people have
:15:17. > :15:20.lost out, not least because we have had the longest squeeze in real
:15:21. > :15:26.wages in a generation. ?70,000 a year is a good salary. It may not
:15:27. > :15:30.necessarily make you rich or make you feel that you are rich,
:15:31. > :15:38.particularly if you live in London and the Saudis, thank you no costs
:15:39. > :15:43.are very high. If you owned ?90,000, or ?100,000, at the moment, your
:15:44. > :15:45.marginal rate of tax is 40%. These people could expect to pay a higher
:15:46. > :15:56.marginal rate? We will put in our manifesto our
:15:57. > :16:05.intentions in relation to tax. Our focus is not on low and middle
:16:06. > :16:09.earners, our focus is that firstly you should pay your tax, secondly if
:16:10. > :16:16.you can afford much more then you should pay more. You will have to
:16:17. > :16:25.wait for our manifesto. But also firstly what we will do is to end
:16:26. > :16:28.the scandal of tax giveaways to the wealthy because that's exactly what
:16:29. > :16:33.this Government has been doing. Let me try one more time, if you are
:16:34. > :16:38.earning 70,000 per year, which you could be the head of the big English
:16:39. > :16:42.department in a comprehensive, it could be a relatively senior
:16:43. > :16:48.policeman, it could be a doctor, it could be a very senior nurse with a
:16:49. > :16:55.lot of responsibility, on that you should expect to pay a higher rate
:16:56. > :17:01.of tax? No, and our tax plans... So for these people the marginal rate
:17:02. > :17:07.is not going up? Our tax plans will be spelt out in the manifesto. Our
:17:08. > :17:12.focus... I know what your focus is, the people watching would like to
:17:13. > :17:17.know. They would like to know if they will pay more tax. They would
:17:18. > :17:21.quite like you to give me the opportunity to answer the question.
:17:22. > :17:27.The focus will be on tackling those who avoid paying their tax, the top
:17:28. > :17:36.rate earners who can and should pay more... Does not include people on
:17:37. > :17:39.70,000? Ending the giveaways. You are not answering my question, we
:17:40. > :17:46.will have to wait for the manifesto. Neil Kinnock says it is now more
:17:47. > :17:51.unlikely than ever that there will be a Labour government in his
:17:52. > :17:55.lifetime, do you agree? I am absolutely determined that we do not
:17:56. > :18:02.return to the dark days of the 1980s where we end up with 18 years of
:18:03. > :18:14.Conservative Winter. I fought with Neil... So do you disagree? I am
:18:15. > :18:18.absolutely determined. I am asking if you disagree. The British people
:18:19. > :18:22.need a Labour government and therefore we have got to be
:18:23. > :18:26.single-mindedly focused on rebuilding support, gaining power
:18:27. > :18:32.and changing the country for the better. A Labour Britain is always
:18:33. > :18:36.better than a Conservative written. The answer just doesn't bear
:18:37. > :18:41.resemblance to the question I asked. Jeremy Corbyn said this morning that
:18:42. > :18:49.the city, he didn't use the words but he said they, the city crashed
:18:50. > :18:52.the economy. Why after ten years of the Labour government did the Labour
:18:53. > :18:57.government allowed the city to crush the economy? I think there was a
:18:58. > :19:01.global problem where governments across the globe did not
:19:02. > :19:08.sufficiently regulate the finance sector. Straight answer to a
:19:09. > :19:13.straight question. Including the Labour government here. Labour took
:19:14. > :19:20.steps, opposed by the Tories every step of the way. But you accept that
:19:21. > :19:25.Labour presided over events that crashed the economy? We took steps
:19:26. > :19:30.to try and change that. The Tories opposed those steps, there was then
:19:31. > :19:34.the crash, and the appalling thing about what's happened subsequently
:19:35. > :19:39.is it is working people who paid the price. Which is a point Jeremy
:19:40. > :19:45.Corbyn made strongly. Thank you, I hope to see you and be more
:19:46. > :19:51.successful after the manifesto. Look forward to it. Douglas Carswell has
:19:52. > :19:59.decided not to run in this election, remember he defected from the Tories
:20:00. > :20:06.to Ukip, he won his seat, then left Ukip and became an independent in
:20:07. > :20:12.strong Ukip territory, but he's not running again. What is your
:20:13. > :20:16.reaction? I think Jack Dromey could look at some of the work Douglas
:20:17. > :20:25.Carswell has done on how you really tackle elites and what you really
:20:26. > :20:29.do... I understand but I was simply asking for your reaction. I am very
:20:30. > :20:35.surprised, I always thought Douglas was someone who... I think he did
:20:36. > :20:43.enjoy his job, he was a great advocate for people of Clacton. Let
:20:44. > :20:47.me give you another surprise, he's backing the Conservative candidate.
:20:48. > :20:55.We don't know who the Ukip candidate is yet so I suspect that is a little
:20:56. > :21:00.premature. It never rains but it pours for Ukip at the moment. It's
:21:01. > :21:06.an interesting time to be in politics and in Ukip as well, but it
:21:07. > :21:11.always is. We will have plenty of time to get... We are done. I will
:21:12. > :21:17.see you post manifesto, looking forward to it. Me too!
:21:18. > :21:19.Theresa May hasn't been out and about this morning.
:21:20. > :21:22.She's been in Downing Street for a series of meetings.
:21:23. > :21:24.But last night, the Prime Minister was in Bolton.
:21:25. > :21:27.She tried out some of the campaign lines we will be hearing a lot of in
:21:28. > :21:37.the next few weeks. It's a choice between strong and
:21:38. > :21:41.stable leadership under the Conservatives or weak and unstable
:21:42. > :21:51.coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn. And that is very clear. The
:21:52. > :21:55.other parties are lining up to prop up Jeremy Corbyn. We have seen it
:21:56. > :22:02.with the Liberal Democrats and we see it with the Scottish
:22:03. > :22:07.Nationalists. Theresa May there, she was speaking in Bolton, part of the
:22:08. > :22:10.north of Lancashire, where the Conservatives are hoping to pick up
:22:11. > :22:18.a few seats, particularly if they think the Ukip threat was not what
:22:19. > :22:24.it was. In the old days it was Bolton east, Bolton West, in these
:22:25. > :22:25.days it is swing seats. These are changed days.
:22:26. > :22:28.We're joined now by David Cameron's former deputy chief of staff,
:22:29. > :22:30.the Conservative MP Oliver Dowden, and by Alistair Carmichael,
:22:31. > :22:35.the Liberal Democrats' Home Affairs spokesperson.
:22:36. > :22:49.And the only Lib Dem in -- MP in Scotland. For the moment! What do
:22:50. > :22:54.you make of Jeremy Corbyn's attempts to stand up to the wealth
:22:55. > :22:59.extractors? It is interesting stuff but it's quite remarkable that in an
:23:00. > :23:04.election framed around Brexit armour which that is clearly the defining
:23:05. > :23:08.issue at least at the moment, Jeremy Corbyn has very little to say about
:23:09. > :23:14.it. My instinct is that I think it was probably quite a good move on
:23:15. > :23:19.his part to shift, because on Brexit he has a pretty weak story to tell.
:23:20. > :23:23.He was absent without leave during the referendum campaign and his
:23:24. > :23:29.so-called leadership under Article 50 has been pitiful. It is not
:23:30. > :23:33.necessary, simply because the Prime Minister calls the election, it
:23:34. > :23:37.isn't necessary for the Leader of the Opposition to go on with that.
:23:38. > :23:42.Jeremy Corbyn said this morning that the crash, caused by the financial
:23:43. > :23:49.system and by the institutions of the financial system, caused huge
:23:50. > :23:51.hardship for people who weren't responsible for the crash. People
:23:52. > :24:00.are suffering to some extent on that, whereas the people who caused
:24:01. > :24:05.it seem by and large to get away scot-free. Surely that's a
:24:06. > :24:09.legitimate point. Of course it is, but there is a danger for any
:24:10. > :24:14.political party that wants to talk about something other than the
:24:15. > :24:20.debate that is at the centre... He wants to talk about the standards of
:24:21. > :24:25.living for British people, what could be more important? Although
:24:26. > :24:28.Jeremy Corbyn was talking about an interesting analysis of the past,
:24:29. > :24:32.what will have an impact on the living standards of working people
:24:33. > :24:38.in this country in the here and now and in the future, and it will be
:24:39. > :24:42.Theresa May's determination to pursue a hard Brexit, taking us out
:24:43. > :24:48.of the single market and Customs union. Ed Miliband talked about
:24:49. > :24:58.predators in his first speech, I think he was leader of Labour at the
:24:59. > :25:01.party conference, Theresa May has stopped about tax dodgers,
:25:02. > :25:06.international companies and directors not paying their fair
:25:07. > :25:10.share or doing things wrong way, she divided people into that as well,
:25:11. > :25:16.Jeremy Corbyn is just doing the same, there's nothing unusual about
:25:17. > :25:20.it. It is perfectly legitimate to raise this issue but I've always
:25:21. > :25:25.thought the way to help working people is cut their taxes, and we
:25:26. > :25:34.have done that by ?1000 per year, and at the same time the wealthier
:25:35. > :25:39.are paying more than ever. We were the ones to do that first of all,
:25:40. > :25:46.can we remember that? We found the money to do it! Let me put this to
:25:47. > :25:54.you, it's an example I think of what they were talking about, in the
:25:55. > :26:01.financial year for Google ending June 2016 we have a turnover in
:26:02. > :26:06.Britain of $8 billion, how much corporation tax to be paid? Google
:26:07. > :26:14.are paying more now than they used to, I don't know the exact figure. I
:26:15. > :26:22.will tell you, they paid 25 million on turnover of 8 billion. That
:26:23. > :26:25.cannot be right, can it? No, I completely agree. George Osborne
:26:26. > :26:30.introduced reforms of the rules to deal with the so-called double Irish
:26:31. > :26:34.question. The main problem we have is large multinational companies are
:26:35. > :26:40.moving money around the world, taking tax in other countries... We
:26:41. > :26:46.know what they are doing, we are trying to work out why you haven't
:26:47. > :26:52.stopped them. Six years of Conservative government and they are
:26:53. > :26:59.still paying a marginal rate of tax. A company that has made ?8 billion
:27:00. > :27:05.out of this country in one year pays 25 million in tax. That's why people
:27:06. > :27:10.are angry, is it not? Yes, but we are tapping the double Irish
:27:11. > :27:17.question, we have raised billions from tax avoidance, just in this
:27:18. > :27:21.last Budget we announced a further ?800 million from tax avoidance, we
:27:22. > :27:28.are closing down loopholes, going after tax evaders with higher fines,
:27:29. > :27:32.we are more aggressively taxing them, and if you go back to what
:27:33. > :27:42.Theresa May said on the steps of Downing Street that's something she
:27:43. > :27:49.wants to address further. You are writing the Ukip manifesto, what are
:27:50. > :27:53.you going to say about these things? About inequality? About some of
:27:54. > :28:00.these companies who seem to pay very small amounts of corporation tax.
:28:01. > :28:05.Absolutely, and we had in our 2015 manifesto ways to cut down on tax
:28:06. > :28:10.avoidance, which the Tories picked up and run with. We believe
:28:11. > :28:14.fundamentally taxpayers should be allowed to keep as much of their own
:28:15. > :28:17.money in their own pockets as possible so we are looking to
:28:18. > :28:22.smaller government is well and I think it's one of the things that's
:28:23. > :28:26.interesting, that Theresa May's government is a party of big
:28:27. > :28:32.government, talking about more politics and not less, and we oppose
:28:33. > :28:35.that as well. Must uncontrolled immigration has driven down wages,
:28:36. > :28:42.by controlling immigration you get a natural rise in wages. There's
:28:43. > :28:47.another dimension to this, and it is the truth of the matter that you
:28:48. > :28:52.will only tackle tax evasion by cooperating with other people and
:28:53. > :28:55.other parts of the world. The EU was one of the most significant trading
:28:56. > :29:03.blocs within that globalised economy. I think words have to be
:29:04. > :29:10.carefully used. You are not accusing Google of evasion? That was the word
:29:11. > :29:14.you used. Sorry, avoidance, and thank you for giving me the
:29:15. > :29:18.opportunity to put that correct, but corporate tax avoidance, closing
:29:19. > :29:28.down the loopholes can only be done by working with other countries and
:29:29. > :29:36.the EU is an important... If the thrust of your politics is being
:29:37. > :29:43.driven by an inward looking and isolationist policy, then in fact
:29:44. > :29:48.that becomes more and more... You are spinning everything. Challenge
:29:49. > :29:54.you on the EU, we have made tremendous progress through the G7
:29:55. > :29:59.at looking at tax avoidance, I don't think the EU has that big a role to
:30:00. > :30:05.play on tax avoidance. It helps to facilitate it, companies can place
:30:06. > :30:09.their headquarters in countries with the lowest tax regimes, we would
:30:10. > :30:16.stop that. What would the Lib Dems do about inequality? We would tackle
:30:17. > :30:21.it by allowing working people to keep more money... But a lot of that
:30:22. > :30:26.has been done already. There are still a lot more to do and you use
:30:27. > :30:31.the machinery of government to give people the tools to pull themselves
:30:32. > :30:35.up. We invest in education, in the pupil premium, which puts extra
:30:36. > :30:39.money directly into children who come from the poorer families. That
:30:40. > :30:44.way you enable them to make the most of the talents they have got and to
:30:45. > :30:50.pull themselves out of poverty. Are you up for Progressive Alliance? If
:30:51. > :30:57.there are progressives around with whom you can make alliance then I am
:30:58. > :31:02.up with it. Jeremy Corbyn? I don't think so because any Alliance has
:31:03. > :31:07.got to be a coherent one and no alliance with Jeremy Corbyn will be
:31:08. > :31:10.coherent. As for the nationalists they are neither progressive nor
:31:11. > :31:20.particularly keen on making alliances with other people.
:31:21. > :31:27.Mischief from them but not from you? Heaven forfend!
:31:28. > :31:30.So what, I hear you cry, about all the bills that
:31:31. > :31:31.are going through Parliament at the moment?
:31:32. > :31:33.What about the Small and Medium Sized Co-operative
:31:34. > :31:35.Development Bill, or the Short and Holiday-Let Accommodation
:31:36. > :31:36.(Notification of Local Authorities) Bill?
:31:37. > :31:39.Well, let me tell you all about the wash-up period.
:31:40. > :31:42.The wash-up is the period immediately before an election,
:31:43. > :31:43.when the Government works out which bills
:31:44. > :31:46.it can rush through, and which it has to
:31:47. > :31:48.drop, before Parliament dissolves at the start of May.
:31:49. > :31:50.Turning bills into law is normally a long, drawn-out process that
:31:51. > :31:53.can take months, but during the wash-up, the Government
:31:54. > :31:56.speeds up the process by watering bills down to take the controversial
:31:57. > :32:00.bits out and thrashes out compromises with the opposition
:32:01. > :32:03.parties so the bills can get through.
:32:04. > :32:12.Anything left over has to wait until a new government is formed.
:32:13. > :32:17.Let's talk now to our reporter Emma Vardy.
:32:18. > :32:23.Emma, what is getting through and what is not? Hundreds of bills are
:32:24. > :32:29.going through Parliament at the moment, some of them covering
:32:30. > :32:34.mainstream issues like prisons and transport, and others that deal with
:32:35. > :32:37.things like Habitat regulations. There are six major ones that are
:32:38. > :32:42.going back and forth between the Houses. The higher education and
:32:43. > :32:48.research bill is one of the big ones, and this will only get onto
:32:49. > :32:56.the stack Briton statute but if their concession. May is already
:32:57. > :33:05.having -- get onto the statute book if there are concessions. The
:33:06. > :33:10.Digital economy Bill deals with ticket touting and the level of the
:33:11. > :33:13.BBC licence fee and that is another one at ping-pong stage that can get
:33:14. > :33:18.through if there are concessions. The other bills that haven't reached
:33:19. > :33:23.ping-pong yet - the criminal finances Bill is a major one,
:33:24. > :33:26.dealing with corruption and terrorism financing, which goes to
:33:27. > :33:30.the Lords next week and can get through the parties agree. For
:33:31. > :33:35.others, it looks like the end of the road. The prisons and courts Bill
:33:36. > :33:38.and local Government Finance bill are two which looked like they will
:33:39. > :33:42.bite the dust and will have to be restarted in the next Parliament.
:33:43. > :33:47.The Tories believe they will win this election and win big, otherwise
:33:48. > :33:51.they would not have called it. There may be right or wrong, but that is
:33:52. > :33:57.what they think, so why do they need to rush this through if they are
:33:58. > :34:01.confident they will come back? Some things are time critical, like
:34:02. > :34:07.getting permission for university fees to rise in time for September,
:34:08. > :34:10.but also important is that if bills are fully formed, if they have to go
:34:11. > :34:14.through the process of being restarted in the next Parliament,
:34:15. > :34:19.they will also be fighting for space with Brexit legislation.
:34:20. > :34:22.Negotiations will go one largely behind the scenes, over four days
:34:23. > :34:26.next week, and there will be pressure for the Government to get
:34:27. > :34:29.things through. Also, the opposition don't want to be seen to be standing
:34:30. > :34:33.in the way of useful legislation because of a point of detail, so we
:34:34. > :34:38.have this wash-up period next week, and we will watch and see what
:34:39. > :34:41.happens. Thank you very much about. The wash-up period part of the way
:34:42. > :34:42.British politicians do things. We're joined now by Catherine Haddon
:34:43. > :34:51.from the Institute of Government. Welcome to the programme. Is this a
:34:52. > :34:55.period where there is cooperation between the parties to get this
:34:56. > :34:59.done? That can be, but the big division is between the Commons and
:35:00. > :35:03.Lords, because the House of Lords is where the opposition really sets,
:35:04. > :35:08.because there is a majority in the Commons. It is more about being
:35:09. > :35:12.between the chambers. It is not about differences of view and things
:35:13. > :35:17.like that, there is a lot of important scrutiny and amendments go
:35:18. > :35:21.on in these kinds of stages. Governments, when they put
:35:22. > :35:24.legislation through, will put amendments on things because they
:35:25. > :35:27.realise they don't quite work. The danger of doing it too quickly is
:35:28. > :35:31.that you end up with a bad bill, which you want to avoid. The
:35:32. > :35:38.opposition has more power than normal, and so too will the Lords.
:35:39. > :35:42.In 1983, we were awaiting the BT privatisation bill and Labour
:35:43. > :35:47.refused to put it through in the rush before the 1983 election, so it
:35:48. > :35:51.had to wait. Margaret Thatcher's return brought the bill back. There
:35:52. > :35:56.is an opportunity with their higher education and research funding bill,
:35:57. > :35:59.where we may see opposition from the Lords, because there has been
:36:00. > :36:04.criticism of it. There were stories in the press this morning that
:36:05. > :36:08.Theresa May, who has argued against taking student numbers out of the
:36:09. > :36:12.migrant figures, may now concede that to get the bill through. And
:36:13. > :36:15.there are a lot of interesting questions, not just how much
:36:16. > :36:19.legislation will be on the box for the next Parliament and whether or
:36:20. > :36:23.not they want to carry bills through, but also, what does Theresa
:36:24. > :36:26.May want to change? Many of these bills have their origins in the last
:36:27. > :36:31.Conservative manifesto, so this could be your opportunity to change
:36:32. > :36:36.policy on some issues, should she be returned with the majority she
:36:37. > :36:41.hopes. That is one of the reason she is giving for the election, that if
:36:42. > :36:46.she puts a number of things into the manifesto, then under the Salisbury
:36:47. > :36:51.role, I think, the Lords can delay and argue, but they cannot stop
:36:52. > :36:59.something on which a Government has been elected. Although some, the Lib
:37:00. > :37:04.Dems, don't recognise that. They rejected as that? In 2005. I don't
:37:05. > :37:08.know whether Tim Farron will respect it. It is a long-standing tradition
:37:09. > :37:12.about things that are renowned manifesto. They are not necessarily
:37:13. > :37:18.specified in a manifesto with detail, so there is scope
:37:19. > :37:21.opposition, to the but it means that key areas that have been put through
:37:22. > :37:26.as manifesto policies, the Lords are not supposed to recommend and
:37:27. > :37:29.ultimately stop them, but they can change them significantly if they
:37:30. > :37:37.argue the case. I guess we will wait for the Tory manifesto, but we don't
:37:38. > :37:41.know yet if Mrs May has got any major legislative programme in mind
:37:42. > :37:48.in addition to Brexit, or whether Brexit is going to suck up all the
:37:49. > :37:51.oxygen. A lot of her speech was about domestic policy, and there
:37:52. > :37:56.were a number of areas where we have seen progress, but that will now
:37:57. > :37:59.have to stall. We were expecting more consultations, more from the
:38:00. > :38:03.Government on industrial strategy, social mobility, and of course,
:38:04. > :38:08.there was going to be a White Paper on grammar schools in June. These
:38:09. > :38:12.could change. Then there are other things that might change as well. We
:38:13. > :38:15.saw with the budget, the Finance Bill is one of the things that
:38:16. > :38:20.currently needs to be sorted out and go through wash-up. Because that is
:38:21. > :38:25.tax and revenue, so they have to do that. Yes, and they will probably
:38:26. > :38:28.reduce it to the bare minimum. They may want to have a new budget under
:38:29. > :38:34.the next Government because they may want to reintroduce the thorny issue
:38:35. > :38:37.of national insurance. The Treasury have this big hole they want to
:38:38. > :38:45.fill, so the manifesto could change the legislation a lot. Parliament
:38:46. > :38:58.goes down, I think, at midnight on the 2nd of May. Yes, dissolution. It
:38:59. > :39:05.has been announced this morning that it will be, yes, at the end of the
:39:06. > :39:09.2nd of May, so that will also be the last time that MPs and their staff
:39:10. > :39:14.get to access computer... And they are not MPs any more. No, just
:39:15. > :39:21.candidates, so they won't have access to resources. Civil servants
:39:22. > :39:25.have written to MPs today to say that the normal process for
:39:26. > :39:28.enquiries will be happening. As far as they are concerned, the purdah
:39:29. > :39:33.has already started. The election will be on the 8th of June, and then
:39:34. > :39:38.a couple of weeks later, whoever wins has formed a Government and
:39:39. > :39:48.there is the Queen's speech. We were expecting that anyway in May. There
:39:49. > :39:52.is not as much legislation going on because of that. You might have to
:39:53. > :39:56.account for the fact that she may have a reshuffle. She has a
:39:57. > :40:00.reshuffle, she might want to change departments round, so that will also
:40:01. > :40:04.affect smaller legislation going through as well, because different
:40:05. > :40:05.ministers may have different priorities in mind. Fascinating. A
:40:06. > :40:12.very much. -- thank you very much. Our guest of the day
:40:13. > :40:15.is Suzanne Evans of Ukip. Now, at every election, we are used
:40:16. > :40:17.to hearing that her party is on the verge of a parliamentary
:40:18. > :40:20.breakthrough - it's The party has seen some success,
:40:21. > :40:24.currently holding five seats in the Welsh Assembly,
:40:25. > :40:27.but Ukip has also faced an array of problems,
:40:28. > :40:29.mostly self-inflicted. After last year's referendum, MEP
:40:30. > :40:34.Diane James was elected as leader, but she stood down after only 18
:40:35. > :40:37.days, saying she didn't Eventually, she resigned
:40:38. > :40:45.from the party altogether. Cue another leadership race
:40:46. > :40:48.and another resignation. This time, frontrunner Steven Woolfe
:40:49. > :40:50.left the party after he was knocked out during an altercation
:40:51. > :40:56.with a fellow Ukip MEP. MEP Paul Nuttal was eventually
:40:57. > :41:01.elected as Ukip supremo but was then caught out about achievements
:41:02. > :41:04.on his CV and had to apologise after falsely claiming to have lost
:41:05. > :41:09.friends at the Hillsborough disaster, all of which helped
:41:10. > :41:11.scupper his campaign He was described as weak
:41:12. > :41:18.by the party's millionaire donor, Arron Banks, before Banks
:41:19. > :41:22.was subsequently elbowed out during He vowed to set up Ukip 2.0
:41:23. > :41:28.and destroy the party. And the trouble kept
:41:29. > :41:32.coming - their only MP, resigned from the party to sit
:41:33. > :41:37.as an independent, though many And this month, former
:41:38. > :41:45.Tory Mark Reckless, who is now a Welsh Assembly member,
:41:46. > :41:48.resigned from Ukip to sit as an independent and vote
:41:49. > :42:02.with the Conservative group What a mess! Thank you for reminding
:42:03. > :42:06.me of all that. I would have completely forgotten if it wasn't
:42:07. > :42:10.for you! It is a never-ending nightmare. It has not been our
:42:11. > :42:14.moment of glory, let's be honest, but I think we are in a situation
:42:15. > :42:20.where Article 50 has been triggered and there is no doubt that getting
:42:21. > :42:24.out of the EU was Ukip's reason for being, our primary goal. Inevitably,
:42:25. > :42:28.there will be reflection and reconsideration, when it looks like
:42:29. > :42:33.someone else has picked up the ball and run away with it. I would say to
:42:34. > :42:37.people that we're not yet. People who are saying that Ukip is finished
:42:38. > :42:40.and our job is done, I would say no. Until the fat lady sings on Brexit,
:42:41. > :42:44.if you like, we are still in and have to get out. There is still this
:42:45. > :42:49.debate about hard or soft Brexit. I would say there is just Brexit.
:42:50. > :42:53.People like you and other UK people always tell me in these interviews
:42:54. > :42:58.that your job is to hold the Government's fee to the fire over
:42:59. > :43:02.Brexit. It is. When you have seen that litany of woes I have gone
:43:03. > :43:09.through, you have done more to set yourself a light. In some senses, I
:43:10. > :43:11.can only agree, and we have shot ourselves in the foot in some
:43:12. > :43:17.senses. That doesn't mean that we don't have a job to do and we must
:43:18. > :43:24.carry on. Mrs May is going to go to the country, and she will repeat her
:43:25. > :43:29.Brexit strategy and the broad outlines of what she aims to achieve
:43:30. > :43:32.in the negotiations, and if she wins, she will have a mandate to
:43:33. > :43:39.carry that out, whether you liked all the details or not. She has the
:43:40. > :43:43.mandate, if she wins, to do it. Even your role of holding their feet to
:43:44. > :43:47.the fire seems to have been scuppered by this election. I
:43:48. > :43:54.disagree. If Theresa May comes back with a massive Tory majority, my
:43:55. > :43:57.concern is that when you have huge majorities, without serious
:43:58. > :44:01.opposition, a dictator meant Halladay comes in, and I think there
:44:02. > :44:06.is a touch of that in Mrs May. We hear she will not take part in the
:44:07. > :44:15.TV debates. It is like, I will do what I like. She is a dictator? No.
:44:16. > :44:20.You said a touch of a dictator. Like Tony Blair in 1997, massive
:44:21. > :44:23.majority, Tory Party depleted, decisions made without any
:44:24. > :44:27.opposition which scuppered and left a terrible legacy of the people for
:44:28. > :44:30.successive generations. I am not terribly keen on majority
:44:31. > :44:40.governments for precisely that reason. For the sake of argument,
:44:41. > :44:43.let's accept, briefly, the elected dictatorship might argue, if you are
:44:44. > :44:49.to have any role in putting some constraints on this self-described
:44:50. > :44:51.elected dictatorship, you would need more than one or two MPs, otherwise
:44:52. > :45:05.she would be irrelevant. If you are not in parliament, you
:45:06. > :45:10.cannot hold the Government to account. One of the things we will
:45:11. > :45:16.be looking out in our 2017 manifesto is the policies, the Tory handbook
:45:17. > :45:21.as some people are calling it, that the Conservative Party has gone
:45:22. > :45:28.with. So you are even more irrelevant if they have nicked your
:45:29. > :45:35.policies. Even your non-EU policies are being pinched by them. I would
:45:36. > :45:41.say that makes us very relevant. Why vote for the monkey if you can have
:45:42. > :45:45.the organ grinder. Because you don't know if the organ grinder will play
:45:46. > :45:50.the tune they said they would play. Theresa May will have the mandate to
:45:51. > :45:54.do so if she wins and in the sense it doesn't matter what you say any
:45:55. > :46:00.more because if the Government wins with a big majority, if there is a
:46:01. > :46:04.small win all sorts of things will happen, but she then has a mandate
:46:05. > :46:10.and what you think is surely irrelevant. Let's see what the Tory
:46:11. > :46:14.manifesto says. Theresa May failed to control immigration when she was
:46:15. > :46:19.Home Secretary, never came anywhere near the tens of thousands, just
:46:20. > :46:23.went up and up. She says she wants to release us from the European
:46:24. > :46:29.Courts of Justice, does that mean we will pull out of the European arrest
:46:30. > :46:33.warrant? I'd like to see the details. The failure of the
:46:34. > :46:37.Government to hit its immigration figures has been apparent for six
:46:38. > :46:42.years, the issue of the European arrest warrant has been around for
:46:43. > :46:48.at least six more years as well. And yet you have made all of these
:46:49. > :46:54.points and you still have no MPs. Let's wait and see. We are always
:46:55. > :47:02.waiting and seeing, and nothing happens. When you get an they leave,
:47:03. > :47:07.defect or decide not to stand again. Maybe Douglas was clearly thinking
:47:08. > :47:12.about that anyway, I would suggest, but just because we don't have any
:47:13. > :47:19.MPs it won't stop us from trying. I understand that and parties all over
:47:20. > :47:27.the world have to try. Paul Nuttall talked about rebranding the party,
:47:28. > :47:32.what does that mean? I don't know. A lot of people talk about
:47:33. > :47:37.rebranding... The content of the manifesto should surely reflect the
:47:38. > :47:43.rebranding. I think he was talking about the logo, that sort of thing.
:47:44. > :47:56.Getting rid of the union flag? Well, the pound sign. I like the yellow,
:47:57. > :48:01.not the purple. Ukip began as something of a threat to the Tories
:48:02. > :48:08.in the south and I think that was one of the reasons Mr Cameron moved
:48:09. > :48:13.to a referendum. It then started to think we could be even more of a
:48:14. > :48:17.threat to Labour in the north, without ceasing to be a threat in
:48:18. > :48:22.the south. But when you look at the South now and you look at Mrs May's
:48:23. > :48:29.position and the fact the country did vote for Brexit and she's taking
:48:30. > :48:36.a line that you by and large approve of... That one issue, yes.
:48:37. > :48:41.Disaffected voters are just as likely to go back to Tories in the
:48:42. > :48:45.south and you are not really getting the votes in the north. I remember
:48:46. > :48:53.the first ever interview I did for daily politics, I said, I think our
:48:54. > :48:58.future lies in the Labour heartlands. I think we need to focus
:48:59. > :49:03.on both, and Ukip's manifesto will once again look to be both, it will
:49:04. > :49:07.be that common sense a party that appeals to both those on the left
:49:08. > :49:11.and right because it is common sense because its policies will benefit
:49:12. > :49:15.everyone in the country. You said there was a touch of the dictator
:49:16. > :49:21.about Mrs May but you were the one last November that wanted judges to
:49:22. > :49:26.be sacked. No, I have been misquoted on this. I was talking about the
:49:27. > :49:30.fact our judiciary is pretty much completely unaccountable and I think
:49:31. > :49:34.there should be more scrutiny when it comes to judicial appointments
:49:35. > :49:38.for instance. We were talking about the elites and they replicate
:49:39. > :49:43.themselves and there is nowhere that is more evident than in the
:49:44. > :49:50.judiciary. This so sacking judges won't be in the manifesto? I can
:49:51. > :49:52.guarantee that! You heard it here first.
:49:53. > :49:53.It's not just Labour who are kick-starting
:49:54. > :49:58.The Green Party - of England and Wales, we should say -
:49:59. > :49:59.are launching their campaign this afternoon in Bristol.
:50:00. > :50:04.We're joined from there by the party's co-leader, Caroline Lucas.
:50:05. > :50:13.There she is with that iconic bridge behind her. You must have heard or
:50:14. > :50:18.seen bits of what Jeremy Corbyn was saying this morning. Was there
:50:19. > :50:22.anything you disagreed with? I have been on a train for most of the
:50:23. > :50:27.morning with plenty of delays so if you wouldn't mind refreshing my
:50:28. > :50:32.memory about what he did say... He talked about wealth extractors and
:50:33. > :50:38.cosy cartels, of people making the rules up to help themselves, he
:50:39. > :50:48.talked about, well Mr McDonnell talked about erasing taxes... I
:50:49. > :50:55.wondered if you disagreed with any of it? The general thrust? Certainly
:50:56. > :51:02.I agree we should be moving to a much fairer society, in Britain we
:51:03. > :51:05.have most of the -- one of the most unequal societies in the whole of
:51:06. > :51:09.Europe so we want to make sure people on higher incomes will be
:51:10. > :51:14.paying more but the Green Party not only has that analysis and shared
:51:15. > :51:17.concern about inequality and a real commitment to addressing inequality,
:51:18. > :51:24.but also we have that consistent position when it comes to Brexit. We
:51:25. > :51:32.want to avoid the hardest type of Brexit, which Mrs May is pursuing,
:51:33. > :51:35.for which we say she has no mandate. Thirdly, we want to put climate and
:51:36. > :51:42.environmental protection back at the top of the agenda. It's amazing how
:51:43. > :51:45.short people's memories are, last year was the hottest year on record
:51:46. > :51:50.and people seem to have forgotten that now so we will be talking about
:51:51. > :51:56.the importance of investing in green jobs. In Bristol we are currently in
:51:57. > :52:03.second place and our candidate was an MEP, a very experienced
:52:04. > :52:07.politician, and last time round we had an increased to 27% almost
:52:08. > :52:12.unprecedented so we have a really good chance of winning our first MP
:52:13. > :52:16.here in Bristol West. You reached out to Labour and the Lib Dems with
:52:17. > :52:24.talk of a Progressive Alliance but they have both rejected your offer,
:52:25. > :52:26.are you disappointed by that? I am deeply disappointed and people up
:52:27. > :52:31.and down the country are disappointed because it is yet more
:52:32. > :52:35.of the same type of politics, putting their own interests above
:52:36. > :52:38.those of the country. We faced a defining general election, which
:52:39. > :52:44.will make key decisions about the kind of country we will be. A quick
:52:45. > :52:48.look at the polls suggest the kind of policies Mrs May is pursuing will
:52:49. > :52:52.ensure she comes back with a majority of up to 100, I don't think
:52:53. > :52:59.that represents what people want in this country. It's the result of a
:53:00. > :53:06.skewed electoral system. We don't know the result yet! Right now this
:53:07. > :53:12.Government is governing on the basis of less than 24% of the eligible
:53:13. > :53:19.vote, so we need to reach out to other parties to see if we can avoid
:53:20. > :53:24.the most extreme Tory policies. You set an interesting precedent in the
:53:25. > :53:28.Richmond by-election, famously won by the Lib Dems, because you stood
:53:29. > :53:33.down and that's will have contributed to the Lib Dem victory
:53:34. > :53:38.there. You have got to concentrate your resources in the areas which
:53:39. > :53:44.you are now in Bristol, will you be looking at seats where even though
:53:45. > :53:49.they have rejected your progressive alliance, will you be looking at
:53:50. > :53:59.seats where if you don't stand there and other progressive party will
:54:00. > :54:03.have a chance? You won't see people standing down across the country,
:54:04. > :54:08.but what I think is exciting is the fact that up and down the country
:54:09. > :54:13.there is such a desire to try to beat this scandalously undemocratic
:54:14. > :54:18.electoral system and work together to that end. So many times you have
:54:19. > :54:22.parties from the centre and centre left fighting each other and what
:54:23. > :54:26.happens time and again is the Tories say all through the middle. Surely
:54:27. > :54:30.now when there is so much at stake when it comes to public services and
:54:31. > :54:35.Brexit, surely now those other parties should be putting aside
:54:36. > :54:41.tribal politics. I understand the logic. There are five Conservative
:54:42. > :54:46.seats which the Lib Dems would have won if Green voters had backed them
:54:47. > :54:55.in the 2015 election but it has to be a two Way Street. Are you having
:54:56. > :55:01.any discussions with Tim Farron or Liberal Democrats about that sort of
:55:02. > :55:05.thing? There are discussions going on at all levels. Can I draw your
:55:06. > :55:10.attention to the Isle of Wight, another of our target seats which is
:55:11. > :55:15.currently held by Conservative, Ukip in second place, but the Greens are
:55:16. > :55:19.inferred. We have a fantastic candidate on the Isle of Wight who
:55:20. > :55:27.is really admired and respected, she has a good chance. There is a real
:55:28. > :55:34.groundswell of people who want to change this. Is there a real
:55:35. > :55:38.possibility that in some of the seats with the Lib Dems, where the
:55:39. > :55:44.Lib Dems could win, if you weren't there, is that a discussion we
:55:45. > :55:51.should be looking out for in the next couple of weeks? Is it really a
:55:52. > :55:57.runner? I think so because there is such a ground of popular opinion for
:55:58. > :56:01.it. My e-mail inbox is overflowing with people begging for parties to
:56:02. > :56:06.get together and have grown-up politics. You have organisations
:56:07. > :56:10.like Compass, people active in this space saying how do we have a
:56:11. > :56:16.politics which delivers what the majority of people in this country
:56:17. > :56:21.want. The undemocratic electoral system, which gives power to the
:56:22. > :56:25.Government on 24% of the electoral vote, that is stymieing what the
:56:26. > :56:30.majority of people want which is decent public services, investment
:56:31. > :56:34.in jobs and the environment. Except when they had a chance to vote for a
:56:35. > :56:41.change of electoral system, they didn't change it. But if you have a
:56:42. > :56:48.choice to change it to something not much better... That is your view. If
:56:49. > :56:52.with discussions with Labour or the Lib Dems, if it is possible to
:56:53. > :56:58.identify five seats where you step back they could do better and maybe
:56:59. > :57:05.win or five seats where if they step back you would do better, you are up
:57:06. > :57:09.for that? Completely up for that and stepping back can take many forms,
:57:10. > :57:18.it can be as simple as where you decide to put resources, right
:57:19. > :57:21.through to one could even perhaps imagine an open primary, an open
:57:22. > :57:26.democratic decision about who is best placed to fight an extreme
:57:27. > :57:31.Tory. But the key thing to say is this is locally driven and has to
:57:32. > :57:36.come from what the local constituents want. Those discussions
:57:37. > :57:41.are being had right now. Caroline Lucas, thank you for joining us with
:57:42. > :57:58.such a beautiful backdrop, it's been a pleasure. Come and join us! If
:57:59. > :58:01.only I had the time. Do you agree? We believe in a system of
:58:02. > :58:09.proportional representation that does make votes matter and makes
:58:10. > :58:11.votes fair. All right, we have to leave it there, as this era of good
:58:12. > :58:13.feelings break-out. There's just time before we go
:58:14. > :58:16.to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was: Which leader's
:58:17. > :58:18.child has been pictured playing So, Suzanne, what's
:58:19. > :58:39.the correct answer? Thanks to Suzanne Evans
:58:40. > :58:51.and all my guests. I'll be back this evening
:58:52. > :58:53.at 11:45 on BBC One, where you'll be joining me again,
:58:54. > :58:56.Suzanne, along with Miranda Green, As a reality TV star, Donald Trump
:58:57. > :59:16.may have been ignorable. But he is now unignorable,
:59:17. > :59:19.he comes to us 24/7. But what will
:59:20. > :59:24.his presidency mean for the world?