:00:38. > :00:40.Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.The General Election campaign is officially underway
:00:44. > :00:47.The main parties are trading blows on tax and the NHS.
:00:48. > :00:52.But hanging over it all, of course, is Brexit.
:00:53. > :00:55.The Brexit Secretary says Britain will not pay 100 billion euros to
:00:56. > :01:00.leave the EU after newspaper reports suggest it could be that high.
:01:01. > :01:05.But the EU's chief negotiator says the UK must "settle its accounts",
:01:06. > :01:09.although he insists he's not out to punish Britain.
:01:10. > :01:12.Labour promises to suspend planned closures to hospitals
:01:13. > :01:16.The Conservatives unveil a new poster
:01:17. > :01:18.attacking Labour on tax and spending.
:01:19. > :01:24.Yes, the campaign is well and truly up and running.
:01:25. > :01:26.But before we get to the general election,
:01:27. > :01:28.the parties face a big electoral test tomorrow
:01:29. > :01:30.with local elections in England, Scotland and Wales.
:01:31. > :01:35.We'll be speaking to the main parties.
:01:36. > :01:40.The building is still very much there and open to the public.
:01:41. > :01:51.will join us to explain what dissolution means.
:01:52. > :01:55.And with us for the whole of the programme today
:01:56. > :01:56.are the Business Minister, Margot James,
:01:57. > :01:58.and the Shadow International Trade Secretary, Barry Gardiner.
:01:59. > :02:00.Now, as of midnight last night, Parliament was dissolved
:02:01. > :02:04.which means Margot and Barry no longer get to put MP after their
:02:05. > :02:07.names and merely revert to being humble members of the public
:02:08. > :02:12.But just because they don't have MP by their name,
:02:13. > :02:16.it doesn't mean they aren't still politicians.
:02:17. > :02:19.The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, says the UK will not pay 100 billion
:02:20. > :02:23.euros to the EU as part of a so-called Brexit divorce bill.
:02:24. > :02:26.Mr Davis was responding to a report in the Financial Times which says
:02:27. > :02:30.it has calculated that the gross upfront bill has now risen
:02:31. > :02:34.to 100 billion euros after new demands from France and Germany.
:02:35. > :02:44.The UK government insists it will pay what it legally owes.
:02:45. > :02:47.Let's hear what they have to say this morning.
:02:48. > :02:50.Some have created the illusion that Brexit would have no material
:02:51. > :03:00.Or that negotiations can be concluded quickly and painlessly.
:03:01. > :03:11.Once again, there is no punishment, there is no Brexit bill,
:03:12. > :03:16.the financial settlement is only about settling the accounts.
:03:17. > :03:18.We will meet our international obligations.
:03:19. > :03:22.We haven't even started negotiations yet.
:03:23. > :03:25.We will engage on that in the negotiating chamber but this
:03:26. > :03:28.50, 60, 100 billion - numbers plucked out
:03:29. > :03:31.of the air are not ones we're going to be working with.
:03:32. > :03:34.We're not going there as supplicants.
:03:35. > :03:37.It's not for them to say, it's going to be done this way,
:03:38. > :03:41.They have to obey the law, Article 50.
:03:42. > :03:43.Article 50 says these things should be considered together.
:03:44. > :03:48.Joining me now is Charles Grant from the Centre for European Reform -
:03:49. > :03:49.it's a broadly pro-European think tank
:03:50. > :03:54.although is not uncritical of the EU.
:03:55. > :04:01.What is the commission up to floating figures of 100 billion
:04:02. > :04:06.euros? By this rate, by the end of the month, it could be a trillion?
:04:07. > :04:11.I'm not sure what they're up to. I think they're trying to shock the
:04:12. > :04:14.British out of what they see as their complacency. There's some
:04:15. > :04:17.concern, not just in the commission, but in France and Germany, who are
:04:18. > :04:21.pushing the commission to take a tough line, that the British are a
:04:22. > :04:26.bit out of touch with reality. The reality is if there is a dole,
:04:27. > :04:30.Britain will pay a Brexit bill of some sort. It will have to hay grow
:04:31. > :04:36.to pay something soon before they move on to talk about trade talks.
:04:37. > :04:42.That's at reality. When they talk to people in London, they have the idea
:04:43. > :04:45.the British don't get it. Aren't the commission out of tough thinking
:04:46. > :04:53.they'd agree to anything approaching 100 billion euros? Fwfrment T says
:04:54. > :05:00.the grows max is 100 billion. Based on... The FT being a good newspaper
:05:01. > :05:07.has done some of its own cal you could youlations. Based on the
:05:08. > :05:14.asumings we need to pay more for foreign policy and so on? In a
:05:15. > :05:19.sense, are they playing into Mrs May's hands? This will only
:05:20. > :05:23.strengthen her, is it not? The one person they will trust not to come
:05:24. > :05:29.anywhere near a figure like this is her. Do they realise what they are
:05:30. > :05:35.doing in Brussels? The way they see it is Britain's in a weak position.
:05:36. > :05:39.If there's no deal at all, which is quite possible, we leave the EU
:05:40. > :05:45.without an Article 50 settlement. Think of the impact op the familiar
:05:46. > :05:52.markets, the real economy. They think the British, they may be
:05:53. > :05:56.wrong, maybe Mrs May won't blink, if we leave without a deal, they
:05:57. > :06:00.believe it will be worse for the British economy. If they believe
:06:01. > :06:06.they're own figures which is a big if, they'd have a 100 billion hole
:06:07. > :06:09.in their accounts. They don't. They have about a 17 euro billion hole in
:06:10. > :06:13.their accounts. They are concerned about the next two years. After
:06:14. > :06:20.Britain leaves, there's two years left in the budget cycle. They want
:06:21. > :06:25.Britain to plug that. If that was the bottom line, then you're into
:06:26. > :06:31.negotiations. Then you're closer to something the British Government may
:06:32. > :06:35.well find acceptable to pay our obligations until the end of the
:06:36. > :06:39.current budget process which goes beyond our leaving the EU in return
:06:40. > :06:43.for a free trade deal. That's an negotiating position. There is a
:06:44. > :06:47.circle if we're lucky that can be squared. If the British can claim
:06:48. > :06:50.they're paying money into the budget and getting a good trade agreement
:06:51. > :06:56.in return, they will pay something. Much less. Along the lines you
:06:57. > :07:02.mentioned. The problem is the EU's got itself into this procedural
:07:03. > :07:10.position. We won't talk about the future trade agreement until you
:07:11. > :07:14.give on the budget. The talks will come together O'Later and hopefully
:07:15. > :07:18.we'll get a deal. Do you give credence to this figure? I think
:07:19. > :07:24.Charles is right. There is a lot of positioning going on. I think the
:07:25. > :07:31.100 billion is made up of potential liabilities. It is even understand
:07:32. > :07:34.within the commission and FT article what is happening here is there
:07:35. > :07:37.could be returns to the UK. The question is, do you put that money
:07:38. > :07:43.up front because it's a liability and then get it back if it doesn't
:07:44. > :07:50.materialise as a liability? Or do you wait and see if it crystallises
:07:51. > :07:56.and pay it at that time? The key thing is we will pay our
:07:57. > :07:59.international obligations. Mr Davis, the Brexit Secretary said that.
:08:00. > :08:03.Would a Labour Government considering paying anything like 100
:08:04. > :08:09.billion? Look, the point here is this, we want the best possible
:08:10. > :08:14.deal. The best possible deal is not simply about the 100 billion. The
:08:15. > :08:19.best possible deal is a total package in which we have the
:08:20. > :08:23.friction-free access into the internal market, that we have that
:08:24. > :08:27.access, we continue to be able to do the maximum amount of trade with the
:08:28. > :08:32.European Union. And actually, up front costs have to be offset
:08:33. > :08:37.against the eventual benefit and returns to the UK exchequer that
:08:38. > :08:40.increased revenues would bring. It is clear we'll have to pay
:08:41. > :08:47.something, and it is in the billions? I think David Davis said
:08:48. > :08:53.it was clear we won't walk away paying nothing. But it has to be
:08:54. > :08:56.consistent with something we owe not some figure dreamt up at such an
:08:57. > :09:01.early stage in the negotiations. There's a long way to go. We're just
:09:02. > :09:05.at the beginning. There's a lot of talk, various figures have been
:09:06. > :09:11.bandied about. We will pay what we will owe as part of a deal that the
:09:12. > :09:14.Prime Minister will bring back, that will be the best possible deal we
:09:15. > :09:18.can get. We need to see that in the round. There will be a lot of
:09:19. > :09:22.argument over what we owe. That's what the arguments will be about.
:09:23. > :09:28.Some people think it would be simply if we didn't go down this road. .
:09:29. > :09:30.Road.let's listen to the leader of Ukip. Paul Nuttall.
:09:31. > :09:33.What we want to know in Ukip is how much
:09:34. > :09:37.As far as Ukip is concerned, we should not be paying
:09:38. > :09:43.We believe the Prime Minister must make it clear to the Eurocrats
:09:44. > :09:46.that she is prepared to walk away because if she does not,
:09:47. > :10:00.they will walk all over her and Britain will get a rotten deal.
:10:01. > :10:10.S she prebared to walk away? Not on that basis. We are not a country
:10:11. > :10:19.which seeks to avoid our international obligations. We will
:10:20. > :10:22.pay based on what we owe. Not some figure dreamt up before the
:10:23. > :10:28.negotiations have started in bruise Emms. The point that rebutts Paul
:10:29. > :10:34.Nuttall is simply this. It's not about, if they offer us a bad deal,
:10:35. > :10:39.we should walk away. This the point Charles was getting at. Actually,
:10:40. > :10:43.walking away, going on to WTO rules is the worst possible damage that
:10:44. > :10:48.there could be to our economy in the long-term. We need a sustainable
:10:49. > :10:51.settlement. That must come as a package the the difficulty, as
:10:52. > :10:57.Charles said, is this fact the EU seems to have locked itself into a
:10:58. > :11:01.separate track negotiation rather than a combined one. We need to get
:11:02. > :11:05.that combined settlement back on track. People need to understand, it
:11:06. > :11:11.is not simply about this figure of 100 billion. It's actually about
:11:12. > :11:19.what do we eventually have as our trading future with the rest of the
:11:20. > :11:23.world, including the EU? Charles, the Barnier approach says you need
:11:24. > :11:27.to settle your accounts. That work involve coming to some amount. Then
:11:28. > :11:31.we can look at the free trade deal or the kind of arrangement Britain
:11:32. > :11:36.will have with Europe post-Brexit. But this's also the well known
:11:37. > :11:41.Brussels principle nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Though
:11:42. > :11:46.he wants to do them as two separate negotiations, the fact is we could
:11:47. > :11:52.agree a sum of morn with Mr Barnier, but then, not be happy with the deal
:11:53. > :11:56.that's on offer on trade post-Brexit and say, well, then, that bit we
:11:57. > :12:00.agreed to is off the table. That's at Brussels approach? The way around
:12:01. > :12:05.that is clear. It is what Barnier himself told me he wanted. The
:12:06. > :12:09.British have to accept the principle of paying into the budget this
:12:10. > :12:13.autumn. Accept some of the methodology of calculating the
:12:14. > :12:17.figure. Not get to the exact figure. Move on with the trade talks. The
:12:18. > :12:21.trade talks go well, come back to the details of the exact figure of
:12:22. > :12:26.the budget talks. As a final package, it will be all be agreed
:12:27. > :12:29.together. When you put it like that, you can see the beginnings of the
:12:30. > :12:34.British Government agreeing to that? Yes, on the procedure and timing.
:12:35. > :12:38.What the British Government wants is not completely compatible with what
:12:39. > :12:43.the EU wants. With goodwill on all sides they can come together. This
:12:44. > :12:48.100 billion figure plucked from thin air doesn't help. It will reinforce
:12:49. > :12:54.those like nutsal who don't want a deal at all. It is foolish of the
:12:55. > :12:56.commission. The council doesn't like this bring machineship from the
:12:57. > :12:59.commission. Very interesting. Thank you. I think we'll see more of you,
:13:00. > :13:03.Charles Grant. NHS, with a promise to suspend
:13:04. > :13:06.closures of hospital services, including A and maternity units,
:13:07. > :13:09.across England. The plan would include reviewing all
:13:10. > :13:14.44 local healthcare "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", or STPs,
:13:15. > :13:19.which were due to deliver ?22 billion worth of savings
:13:20. > :13:23.for the NHS. But NHS bosses and ministers
:13:24. > :13:25.have insisted the plans but about delivering
:13:26. > :13:30.a more efficient service. Here's Labour's Shadow Health
:13:31. > :13:32.Secretary, Jon Ashworth, What you're seeing in many
:13:33. > :13:47.parts of the country, If things are going to change, The
:13:48. > :13:53.public need to be involved. These S it. P plans, these Tory plans to
:13:54. > :13:58.downgrade services whether at Dewsbury, Darlington or places like
:13:59. > :14:04.Ealing in London, have not had the public involved in them whatsoever.
:14:05. > :14:09.We cannot have a system where A's are downgraded, hospitals, closed.
:14:10. > :14:13.Maternity units closed and the public are shut out of the decisions
:14:14. > :14:18.and they have no say at all. I'm announcing today, a Labour
:14:19. > :14:21.Government on its first day, will stop this hospital closure programme
:14:22. > :14:24.and have a full review. Meanwhile, the Conservatives
:14:25. > :14:26.have launched an attack on Labour, with a new poster claiming
:14:27. > :14:29.the party's promises to date amount to a ?45 billion tax bombshell -
:14:30. > :14:33.evoking memories of previous election campaigns dating back
:14:34. > :14:39.to John Major's campaign in 1992. Labour dismissed the charge as
:14:40. > :14:43.nonsense and insisted all their pledges were fully costed and would
:14:44. > :14:47.be outlined in their manifesto. But Chancellor Philip Hammond
:14:48. > :14:51.and Brexit Secretary David Davis Just when we need strong and stable
:14:52. > :14:59.leadership for our economy and our country over the crucial
:15:00. > :15:03.next five years as we negotiate our exit from the EU and chart
:15:04. > :15:07.a new course in the years beyond, Jeremy Corbyn offers a chaotic
:15:08. > :15:12.and high-risk gamble that would lead to higher taxes,
:15:13. > :15:17.more borrowing and more debt. It's a gamble for which
:15:18. > :15:21.we would all pay the price and that choice must be
:15:22. > :15:25.uppermost in people's minds when they cast their votes
:15:26. > :15:38.on June the 8th. Returning to the issues on health
:15:39. > :15:43.and these STPs that Jon Ashworth says is all about downgrading
:15:44. > :15:47.services and closing maternity units and A services. You are holding
:15:48. > :15:53.those plans, does that mean you are also halting the attempt to make
:15:54. > :15:56.these ?22 billion of efficiency savings the government has called
:15:57. > :16:02.for? You are right to draw attention to the fact of what is driving this
:16:03. > :16:07.programme. It was the government saying they were cutting ?30 billion
:16:08. > :16:11.but would give ?8 billion and that is how you got the ?22 billion
:16:12. > :16:20.supposedly efficiency savings. What we're saying is that the way in
:16:21. > :16:25.which this has been done has failed to really properly account for the
:16:26. > :16:29.wishes of local people. The consultations have been vacuous. And
:16:30. > :16:37.I would challenge Margo to tell us what the statutory basis of these
:16:38. > :16:40.STPs is. They are not a body that is established, they have no specific
:16:41. > :16:47.title except for they are a footprint, they are called a
:16:48. > :16:51.footprint which means they are accountable to nobody through the
:16:52. > :16:55.democratic... Just to be clear, as you say, efficiency savings the
:16:56. > :17:00.government called them, you call them cuts. And you would halt them?
:17:01. > :17:05.What we're saying is we want to make those savings... You said you they
:17:06. > :17:09.were cut but you want to make them? We want to make any savings we can
:17:10. > :17:13.which are genuine efficiency savings but what is driving this programme
:17:14. > :17:17.is the money and not the health need and it is local people that must be
:17:18. > :17:23.involved in determining that health need and how it is catered for.
:17:24. > :17:30.Going through that, there are plans in these plans put forward to
:17:31. > :17:34.downgrade services including A department and maternity services
:17:35. > :17:36.is. No, these plans are about putting services on a more
:17:37. > :17:42.sustainable and safer footing and I want to take issue with what the
:17:43. > :17:45.matter was -- in what Jon Ashworth... You are saying there are
:17:46. > :17:50.no planned in any of these papers put forward at a local level to
:17:51. > :17:55.downgrade any services or close any hospital units? There might be plans
:17:56. > :17:58.to involve the closure of certain units in order to put the overall
:17:59. > :18:03.service in an area on a more sustainable footing. In the Black
:18:04. > :18:06.Country where I represent we have had some improvements to patient
:18:07. > :18:11.care and hospital safety by consolidating certain services in
:18:12. > :18:16.one particular hospital or another and if I might add, there is an
:18:17. > :18:19.awful lot of services that are currently delivered in hospitals
:18:20. > :18:22.which would be far better for patients if they were delivered in
:18:23. > :18:27.the community. Do they have public support? There has been a
:18:28. > :18:32.consultation... If I can do is finish what I'm saying, these plans
:18:33. > :18:35.are not Tory plans as you heard in that film, there are plans that have
:18:36. > :18:41.been developed within the NHS. They have the blessing of independent
:18:42. > :18:45.health think the King 's fund, the independent medical director of the
:18:46. > :18:47.NHS is behind them. This is not something that should be party
:18:48. > :18:52.political and it is not something that the Conservative Party is set
:18:53. > :18:56.up, these are NHS plans to make the service more sustainable in the
:18:57. > :18:59.long-term. And is the point is not that nobody wants to see services
:19:00. > :19:05.closed or closed or shut or downgraded in local area, but that
:19:06. > :19:09.there are perfectly sensible plans to actually move services around so
:19:10. > :19:13.that you might have to travel a bit further, yes, but you cannot have
:19:14. > :19:17.every single small medical NHS unit offering every single treatment to
:19:18. > :19:22.people across the country? In my own area in north-west London, at the
:19:23. > :19:26.Labour government we did precisely that, we saw the point of
:19:27. > :19:31.centralising trauma, we put that in one hospital in Northwick Park
:19:32. > :19:36.Hospital and it has worked very well. Isn't that what these plans
:19:37. > :19:42.are doing? And the public supported it. This is being driven by
:19:43. > :19:44.unaccountable bodies and in north-west London you have
:19:45. > :19:51.Hammersmith and Fulham refusing to even participate... I thought
:19:52. > :19:57.doctors local medical staff... Hammersmith and Fulham and the whole
:19:58. > :20:03.of the Ealing local authority is saying they will not participate in
:20:04. > :20:09.the STPs because it is not taking account of local need and wishes. We
:20:10. > :20:12.want to democratise the process. Let's talk about money because the
:20:13. > :20:17.NHS is always a big issue in election campaigns. Labour have
:20:18. > :20:24.proposed a series of, for many people, popular proposals, wanting a
:20:25. > :20:27.pay increase for NHS staff, wanted to put into law the monetary number
:20:28. > :20:32.of stop up the Ishant and running training for health professionals.
:20:33. > :20:37.Would you back those proposals? You have dizzy them in the wider
:20:38. > :20:41.context. Let me say that over the last seven years the NHS total spend
:20:42. > :20:48.has increased year on year and that increase will be continuing... What
:20:49. > :20:51.has it been per patient? That has not increased and numbers showed
:20:52. > :20:57.that NHS England will face a sharp reduction of no point its present in
:20:58. > :21:00.real terms per patient in the financial year 2018-19. Take your
:21:01. > :21:07.point that overall it might have gone up but not per head. Certainly.
:21:08. > :21:14.If you are saying it is a drop of 0.6%, think we have not seen the
:21:15. > :21:20.manifesto yet, that is one proviso I would make and secondly even on a
:21:21. > :21:24.per patient aces that is at least eight static situation that the
:21:25. > :21:30.overall money spent is increasing. Can I come back to you on the
:21:31. > :21:35.proposals put forward by Labour, the pay increase for staff who have been
:21:36. > :21:39.on a pay freeze for a long period, putting into law this mandatory
:21:40. > :21:44.minimum number of staff, do you support that? That's not correct.
:21:45. > :21:49.The fact that there had been a pay freeze for all staff, that's not the
:21:50. > :21:55.case. A lot of NHS staff have had their progression pay on average 83%
:21:56. > :22:03.increase that it is not there to save... -- a 3% increase. I want an
:22:04. > :22:08.affordable increase and if you look at the Labour plans, as the advert
:22:09. > :22:12.that he put up showed, they are totally uncosted and unaffordable
:22:13. > :22:18.and leave a huge black hole. How much will it cost? How much will
:22:19. > :22:21.those things I have listed about a substantial pay increase for staff,
:22:22. > :22:27.putting into law the mandatory minimum number of staff and patient
:22:28. > :22:31.training, how much does it cost? The nurses bursaries, we accosted them
:22:32. > :22:35.against the tax cuts that the Conservatives have given to the
:22:36. > :22:40.wealthiest in our country. Corporation tax? In the manifesto,
:22:41. > :22:45.every single one of the commitments we have made will be in detailed
:22:46. > :22:55.costed figures. You have already said it will come from the increase
:22:56. > :22:58.in corporation tax. The nurses bursaries will come from corporation
:22:59. > :23:04.tax Idiakez allowance from inheritance tax, the 10,000 police
:23:05. > :23:06.officers from capital gains tax, the educational maintenance back from
:23:07. > :23:12.corporation tax, the student grants from corporation tax. What will be
:23:13. > :23:18.corporation tax rate be? You will know that the corporation tax
:23:19. > :23:23.actually be highest it was ever was in 1982... I just asked what it will
:23:24. > :23:27.be. That will be in the manifesto exactly what the tax rate will be
:23:28. > :23:33.but what the Conservatives have done is they have taken it down for an
:23:34. > :23:39.average of over 30% to 19% and are looking to take it down to 17%. You
:23:40. > :23:44.would put it back to 28%? We will say what we will do in the manifesto
:23:45. > :23:47.but my point is that it has all been contained within those clear
:23:48. > :23:49.envelopes. We're going to have to stop and move on.
:23:50. > :23:51.Voters are going to the polls tomorrow in England, Scotland
:23:52. > :23:56.There's plenty to get excited about - all the councils in Scotland
:23:57. > :23:58.and Wales are up for grabs, as are 34 councils in England.
:23:59. > :24:01.And as if that wasn't enough, there are also eight mayoral
:24:02. > :24:04.Psephological geeks like Barry and Margot here can barely wait.
:24:05. > :24:10.because first here's JoCo with all the details.
:24:11. > :24:12.Local elections take place tomorrow in England, Scotland and Wales.
:24:13. > :24:14.In England, there are elections for 34 councils
:24:15. > :24:26.which are usually areas of strength for the Conservatives.
:24:27. > :24:28.Large cities where Labour usually fare better
:24:29. > :24:34.There are also eight mayoral elections in England
:24:35. > :24:37.with voters in Greater Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield
:24:38. > :24:45.In Scotland, every seat in all 32 councils have local elections,
:24:46. > :24:47.many of them are affected by boundary changes.
:24:48. > :24:48.Since these seats were last contested,
:24:49. > :24:51.Labour has lost all but one of its Scottish MPs.
:24:52. > :24:53.Meanwhile, every seat in each of Wales' 22 councils
:24:54. > :25:03.All but one was last elected in 2012
:25:04. > :25:05.in what was a very strong year for Labour, though independent
:25:06. > :25:10.candidates currently hold a quarter of council seats.
:25:11. > :25:12.In England, the Conservatives are predicted to increase their seat
:25:13. > :25:17.That's according to the latest calculations by Professors
:25:18. > :25:23.Colin Rallings and Michael Thrasher of Plymouth University.
:25:24. > :25:26.Whilst Labour could be down by 75 council seats.
:25:27. > :25:29.As for the other parties, the Lib Dems are predicted to gain
:25:30. > :25:31.an extra 85 seats while Ukip could be starting a freefall.
:25:32. > :25:38.They are predicted to lose 105 seats.
:25:39. > :25:40.Although the proportional system makes big changes
:25:41. > :25:45.the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats they hold
:25:46. > :25:51.and the number of councils they control.
:25:52. > :25:53.In Wales, Labour are predicted to lose 130 seats,
:25:54. > :25:55.even more than the projected losses in England.
:25:56. > :25:58.That is based on analysis of a recent Cardiff University poll
:25:59. > :26:06.which predicted a notable swing to the Conservatives in Wales.
:26:07. > :26:11.Well, let's talk more about the local elections.
:26:12. > :26:17.People will vote tomorrow but most of the results will not come through
:26:18. > :26:22.until Friday morning. Joining us from Glasgow
:26:23. > :26:30.is the SNP's John Nicolson. But first let me come to Barry
:26:31. > :26:36.Gardiner. I get the headline you most fear is Labour wipe-out in
:26:37. > :26:41.Wales. I will wait until the voters have voted. It doesn't look good.
:26:42. > :26:45.One of the important things you stressed in the introduction with
:26:46. > :26:50.that on the cycle these are seats which are not in the metropolitan
:26:51. > :26:54.areas where Labour is traditionally strong. Therefore one would expect,
:26:55. > :26:58.didn't we did relatively well at the last time these seats were up for
:26:59. > :27:07.grabs, that we would see a decline in our numbers. It now looks like
:27:08. > :27:14.you won't do so well in Wales. And not just that, even more remarkable
:27:15. > :27:19.if it is the Conservatives in Wales who are the insurgents, which must
:27:20. > :27:26.surprise you. There are a lot of surprises in politics! That is a big
:27:27. > :27:29.one! Brexit has changed a great deal in how the country thinks about
:27:30. > :27:33.politics and what we're seeing is people might not be looking at these
:27:34. > :27:37.simply as local elections. It is important when you're electing local
:27:38. > :27:43.councillors who will be dealing with the basics of your own local town or
:27:44. > :27:47.city, whether it is housing, rubbish collection, the local education
:27:48. > :27:53.authority, social care, these are things you really need good local
:27:54. > :27:57.councillors for. They do a fantastic job and people should focus their
:27:58. > :28:00.attention on what these elections are about rather than trying to play
:28:01. > :28:07.into the national picture. In Wales if they focus their attention on
:28:08. > :28:11.what the administration run by Labour for 20 years as done, that
:28:12. > :28:16.state education. Maybe this is what you are not doing so well. What is
:28:17. > :28:21.it that Wales is behind England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in
:28:22. > :28:26.every single area measured by the OECD rankings on reading, science
:28:27. > :28:31.and mathematics? Wales is behind every other part of the UK but
:28:32. > :28:37.education has been devolved and your party has won it for 20 years. As
:28:38. > :28:42.you said, the Labour Party has been in control in Wales for a long
:28:43. > :28:47.period of time but there are other services were actually Wales is
:28:48. > :28:50.outperforming. Which ones? In certain measures of the health
:28:51. > :28:54.service even though the Conservatives often like to pick of
:28:55. > :28:58.the health service. There are a lot of bad comparisons. There are but
:28:59. > :29:02.you cannot just pick and choose the bad ones. Any government compared
:29:03. > :29:07.with any other will always have areas where it does less well.
:29:08. > :29:11.Education of course is pretty fundamental, it was your body that
:29:12. > :29:18.said education, education, education. I just want to say that I
:29:19. > :29:22.totally disagree with Barry about the NHS in Wales. Labour have spent
:29:23. > :29:26.less on the NHS in Wales and I urge people to consider their promises
:29:27. > :29:34.for the rest of the UK in light of that fact... And outcomes are worse
:29:35. > :29:39.because the whole body of health and waiting lists are longer, waiting
:29:40. > :29:41.times are longer. I think it is not just education where the Welsh
:29:42. > :29:45.Labour in government is failing their citizens, it is also in
:29:46. > :29:51.health. It is no wonder the Conservatives are making inroads.
:29:52. > :29:56.With talking about waiting times, there are 1.8 million people now
:29:57. > :30:00.waiting longer than four hours in England for waiting times. When
:30:01. > :30:03.Labour left office that was three and 50000 and I think the government
:30:04. > :30:09.is on shaky ground if it starts talking about that problem. --
:30:10. > :30:17.350,000. Before I go to John Nicolson, Gary Porter, chair of the
:30:18. > :30:21.local government Association, said there was a gap of almost ?6 billion
:30:22. > :30:25.in council funding and services would have to be cut, that is one of
:30:26. > :30:29.your own Conservative peers saying that. People say a lot of things and
:30:30. > :30:36.we will wait and see. What is wrong with what he has said? 6 billion! We
:30:37. > :30:38.had to get greater efficiency in local government spending, local
:30:39. > :30:42.government accounts for a huge portion of the national budget. In
:30:43. > :30:46.order to reduce the budget deficit it would have been impossible to
:30:47. > :30:50.have made the progress we have made without reducing spending at a local
:30:51. > :30:54.level but the point about conservative run councils is that
:30:55. > :30:55.they do deliver more efficient services in a more sustainable way
:30:56. > :31:06.and there is a lot approved of that. John Nicholson joining us from
:31:07. > :31:11.Glasgow. We had a few problems get youing you in. You are membering to
:31:12. > :31:15.put 120 million extra into Scottish schools. Is that because you regret
:31:16. > :31:22.cutting 4,000 teachers since you came to power? Well, you know the
:31:23. > :31:25.First Minister said education is her top priority, she said she's
:31:26. > :31:32.passionate about it and wants that to be one of the key areas in which
:31:33. > :31:38.the Scottish Government is judged. So far, not so good then? You've
:31:39. > :31:46.tumbled down the rankings as well in Scotland in the past ten years. You
:31:47. > :31:51.cut teachers by 4,000 and on class sizes, you promised primary class
:31:52. > :31:57.sizes of 18 They are now 23.5. It depends where you are in Scotland.
:31:58. > :32:02.That's the average. In my own area, we've very good schooling. I go to
:32:03. > :32:06.schools all the time. They're very impressive. I accept there are areas
:32:07. > :32:11.of the country where clearly the schools have to be better. We know
:32:12. > :32:15.that. We've a long and honourable tradition in Scotland about caring
:32:16. > :32:20.for education. I think, to be fair, we have to remember that there have
:32:21. > :32:25.been huge cuts from UK Central Government to the Scottish budgets.
:32:26. > :32:32.Inevitably that filters down. Yes, but in the most recent settlement
:32:33. > :32:37.from the Barnet formula, there was a rise of 1.5% in real terms of the
:32:38. > :32:43.block grant that went to Scotland. But, when it came to passing money
:32:44. > :32:50.on to the local councils, overall, you cut by 2.6% in real terms. So
:32:51. > :32:54.you took these decisions within an overall emblem. That was your choice
:32:55. > :33:03.in Scotland. There's been an overall cut. Nobody doubts this. Nobody
:33:04. > :33:05.argues about the figures of 3 billion since the Conservative
:33:06. > :33:11.Government came in on its own. That's a huge amount. There is a
:33:12. > :33:13.danger everybody relies on political cliches, there are difficult
:33:14. > :33:18.spending decisions to be made and so on. Clearly, local authorities have
:33:19. > :33:24.to manage their finances effectively and efficiently. One of the reasons
:33:25. > :33:28.that the Labour Party's likely to be defeated in Glasgow tomorrow after
:33:29. > :33:33.so many decades in power is because there's a lot of poor management
:33:34. > :33:39.locally. Everybody knows that. Barry, are you going to lose Glasgow
:33:40. > :33:43.as well as Wales? I trust not. The point I would make... Most
:33:44. > :33:49.commentators in Scotland think you are. Let's hope not. The point I
:33:50. > :33:55.would wish to make about the debt and the way in which the Tories have
:33:56. > :34:03.managed the economy is simply this. When we left office in 2010, just
:34:04. > :34:11.after the global financial crisis, the national debt was ?979 billion.
:34:12. > :34:15.Today, the debt with this Conservative Government is ?1.731
:34:16. > :34:22.trillion. It's gone up by ?750 billion. So... It would have gone up
:34:23. > :34:27.under any Government? No. Of course it would. Alistair Darling had a
:34:28. > :34:31.four-year plan which would have resulted in massive debt. They said
:34:32. > :34:36.they would cut the deficit. They never said they'd cut the debt. No,
:34:37. > :34:42.they said Sh they'd managed debt down. Not increase it. What they
:34:43. > :34:46.did, in fact, in terms of the deficit, they didn't manage to
:34:47. > :34:49.reduce the deficit to store owe by 2015 as they promised. They then
:34:50. > :34:55.said they'd do it by 2020. They failed. We're talking about local
:34:56. > :35:02.government. Local government's not responsible for national debt. It
:35:03. > :35:07.impacts on local government. The Government takes local decisions
:35:08. > :35:14.which shunts the responsibility on. Let me finish by coming back to
:35:15. > :35:20.Margot. The budget announced an extra two billion for social care.
:35:21. > :35:24.How will that be paid for? The ?2 billion was announced. There's
:35:25. > :35:30.agreement it is need in the social care. How will it be paid for? I
:35:31. > :35:33.can't tell you that. I'm not the Chancellor. But it's Government
:35:34. > :35:38.policy now. We are reducing the deficit. We've reduced it. I'm not
:35:39. > :35:43.asking you about the deficit. I'm asking a simple question. You've
:35:44. > :35:49.announced two billion to be paid for by national insurance. You've had to
:35:50. > :35:53.resile from these NI increases. How will it be paid for? I'm not
:35:54. > :35:58.answering the question to which I don't know the answer. The two
:35:59. > :36:04.billion we're proposing to use to fund social care. You can see in the
:36:05. > :36:09.bigger picture, we are managing the economy by reducing the deficit.
:36:10. > :36:13.We've delayed the target date for balancing the book from 2020. We are
:36:14. > :36:18.on a path to secure public finances. Very well, we have to stop there.
:36:19. > :36:19.John Nicholson thank you. Sorry we'd prones in the beginning. Good to see
:36:20. > :36:21.you. Now, Labour made impressive gains
:36:22. > :36:24.in the Welsh local elections five years ago, including winning
:36:25. > :36:26.a majority on Cardiff Council. But they're facing a tough
:36:27. > :36:28.battle to retain control in the Welsh capital,
:36:29. > :36:34.as Jenny Kumah reports. # Guide me, O thou great Jehovah,
:36:35. > :36:41.pilgrim through this barren land #. Thousands of years ago,
:36:42. > :36:44.the Romans ruled over Wales. They built a fort here
:36:45. > :36:47.on the site of Cardiff Castle Now it's Labour who are the dominant
:36:48. > :36:53.force in Welsh politics and five years ago they took control of
:36:54. > :36:58.the City Council from the Lib Dems. The question is, can
:36:59. > :37:03.they hold onto power? Since their victory here,
:37:04. > :37:05.the Labour Party has seen infighting, resignations
:37:06. > :37:10.and by-election defeats. We are fighting for
:37:11. > :37:15.every single vote. We know that it is going to be
:37:16. > :37:18.a very difficult election across the country and we're
:37:19. > :37:22.going to make sure we get on every single doorstep over the next few
:37:23. > :37:25.days up until that election to make sure we have that conversation
:37:26. > :37:27.about what we've achieved here in Cardiff and what we want
:37:28. > :37:29.to achieve going forward. The Liberal Democrats feel
:37:30. > :37:32.the timing of the so-called Brexit general election helps
:37:33. > :37:35.their local campaign, They recently won this ward
:37:36. > :37:41.from Labour in a by-election and their aim is to take back
:37:42. > :37:46.control of the council. We've been winning more by-elections
:37:47. > :37:50.across the UK than any other party and also we are the fastest-growing
:37:51. > :37:53.party now in the UK. Just in the last week or so we have
:37:54. > :37:57.hit 100,000 members. The Conservatives are the third
:37:58. > :38:01.largest party on Cardiff Council. The Prime Minister's recent visit
:38:02. > :38:04.to South Wales I think there's a sort of feeling
:38:05. > :38:09.there's a complacency that they're going to return members
:38:10. > :38:13.and MPs on a regular basis. I think they'd like to see a change
:38:14. > :38:20.and we represent that. Plaid Cymru recently
:38:21. > :38:23.took a ward from Labour in the by-election and they're
:38:24. > :38:27.hoping to make more gains. What we have in Wales is a one-party
:38:28. > :38:30.state and people want change and that's why you look around here,
:38:31. > :38:34.you see these signs, Ukip claimed they were a big part
:38:35. > :38:42.of the political landscape in Wales after they won seven seats
:38:43. > :38:47.on the Welsh Assembly last year. They currently don't have any
:38:48. > :38:51.seats on Cardiff Council but they are fielding a small number
:38:52. > :38:55.of candidates to try to break through
:38:56. > :38:58.in this pro-EU city. So, that's where the parties stand
:38:59. > :39:01.but how much do the candidates know about the services
:39:02. > :39:04.the council provides? For example, the charge
:39:05. > :39:08.for disposing of six large Do you know the exact cost
:39:09. > :39:14.if it is six bulky items? We want to reopen recycling
:39:15. > :39:19.centres and not charge With a Plaid Cymru Council
:39:20. > :39:25.that would be free! We would abolish that charge
:39:26. > :39:28.for collecting bulky waste items. How much would it cost
:39:29. > :39:31.you to dispose of them? So varying degrees of knowledge
:39:32. > :39:40.there but one thing all the candidates are
:39:41. > :39:43.aware of is that the results from this week's local elections
:39:44. > :39:46.could provide clues on how the general election
:39:47. > :39:52.will turn out. And there is a full list
:39:53. > :39:57.of the candidates in the Welsh local elections on the Wales section
:39:58. > :40:02.of the BBC website: bbc.co.uk/Wales. Joining me now is Eluned Parrott
:40:03. > :40:05.from the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Rhun ap Iorwerth
:40:06. > :40:20.from Plaid Cymru. Welcome to both of you. Run, Plaid
:40:21. > :40:27.Cymru are targeting Labour areas. Labour claimed victory in the
:40:28. > :40:32.Cardiff elects in 2012. Why has the public mood changed in favour of you
:40:33. > :40:36.since then? There's clear evidence not just in Cardiff but all across
:40:37. > :40:41.Wales. Plaid Cymru has been strong in Wales. We are confident we'll
:40:42. > :40:45.make gains this time round. What's the evidence? The evidence as you
:40:46. > :40:49.would know from following many elections is what you're hearing on
:40:50. > :40:54.the doorstep the length and breadth of country. People are sick and
:40:55. > :40:57.tired of Labour. I understand why they've been perhaps loyal to the
:40:58. > :41:02.Labour Party which may run in their blood and has done in their families
:41:03. > :41:04.for generations. We have an impotent and incompetent Labour Party. The
:41:05. > :41:08.other side of this pincer movement that's threatening Wales at the
:41:09. > :41:15.moment is a vicious Conservative Party. With its threats to public
:41:16. > :41:18.services. We've Plaid Cymru in the middle of that preparing to defend
:41:19. > :41:23.Wales. This is a key time in our national development. We need to
:41:24. > :41:29.look after our communities. Elunud, you lost control of the council to
:41:30. > :41:33.Labour in 2012. You only have one Assembly member in Wales and one
:41:34. > :41:40.Welsh MP. You're starting from quite a low point? We are stating a very
:41:41. > :41:44.strong fightback. We've doubled our membership in the Vale of Glamorgan
:41:45. > :41:48.over the last year. We are seeing real progress when we're going to
:41:49. > :41:52.have conversations on the doorsteps. We are the second largest party on
:41:53. > :41:56.Cardiff Council. We are the only party other than Labour to have a
:41:57. > :42:02.full slate of candidates. We believe we can do very well. Both Plaid
:42:03. > :42:06.Cymru and yourselves are pushing an anti-Brexit message. That's clear
:42:07. > :42:12.nationally. Do you accept if you rely too much on a Remain message
:42:13. > :42:18.you may appeal to voters in Cardiff but not across the rest of the Wales
:42:19. > :42:22.and you'll split each other's votes? We have to be careful. In terms of
:42:23. > :42:25.local elections it is a balance between national ideals and things
:42:26. > :42:30.we believe in that people want to talk to us about and those very
:42:31. > :42:34.local messages. Here in Cardiff, what we see in the Labour Party is a
:42:35. > :42:40.micro cosp of what we see at a national level. The parties are
:42:41. > :42:46.fighting each other and are too bitsy to fight for the city. How
:42:47. > :42:50.central is at anti-Brexit message when you're out campaigning? It is
:42:51. > :42:58.the most important thing people talk to us about. In Cardiff or outside
:42:59. > :43:04.Cardiff. Across Wales, Leave was more dominant that Remain. I've been
:43:05. > :43:09.canvassing in the Ka difficult and the Vale. I know my colleagues
:43:10. > :43:14.across Wales are reporting the same things back to the Welsh party.
:43:15. > :43:19.Brexit is really, really important. But actually, for local elections we
:43:20. > :43:22.must focus on local issues. Getting services right for the people.
:43:23. > :43:29.Making sure people have the local services they deserve. Run, are you
:43:30. > :43:33.worried you'll cancel each other out with such a similar message when it
:43:34. > :43:40.comes to the issue of Brexit? To be honest with you. Every respect to
:43:41. > :43:43.Eluned, a believe the Liberal Democrats are largely sidelined in
:43:44. > :43:48.this election in Wales. Evidence would show you that. Not in the
:43:49. > :43:54.Cardiff Council elections. You talk about Brexit. I didn't want us to be
:43:55. > :44:00.leaving the EU. What we have now, is plied come rye standing up to ghee
:44:01. > :44:03.fend Wales, pointing out to people we have a bad Theresa May Brexit
:44:04. > :44:09.being brewed by the Conservative Party at Westminster. Whilst we have
:44:10. > :44:14.to seek the best possible departure from the EU for Wales which is a net
:44:15. > :44:19.exporter to the EU. Hundreds of thousands of jobs dependent on that.
:44:20. > :44:23.Holyhead port in my constituency dependent on a free border between
:44:24. > :44:29.Wales and Ireland. If we can show people as I believe we are, that we
:44:30. > :44:32.will look after the Welsh National interest defending Wales at every
:44:33. > :44:37.possible junk door, I think people will trust to us fight and negotiate
:44:38. > :44:46.the best deals for Wales. There hasn't been evidence of that so far.
:44:47. > :44:52.Leave was dominant? You're right. It was 50/50 more or less in my
:44:53. > :44:56.constituency. What we want people now is to realise in voting Leave,
:44:57. > :45:05.they didn't take leave of their acceptses. We need to make sure
:45:06. > :45:10.Welsh interests are protected. Will both of you be prepared to form an
:45:11. > :45:16.administration, work together as you did in 2008? It is difficult to
:45:17. > :45:20.predict. Would you work together? It is possible in local areas we will
:45:21. > :45:25.work with other parties. At this point in time, we need to focus on
:45:26. > :45:29.the elections. We're fighting a campaign looking at local services,
:45:30. > :45:33.making promises to right things like the bomb site that is our pub
:45:34. > :45:37.station in the city centre. To make sure people have the services they
:45:38. > :45:40.expect from their local council. We understand Plaid Cymru will be
:45:41. > :45:45.frustrated this general election has been called at the same time as a
:45:46. > :45:51.local election. In fairness to Plaid Cymru they get squeezed in UK-wide
:45:52. > :45:56.elections. They're not seen as being as relevant in a general election as
:45:57. > :46:00.in a local or Assembly context. The truth is, parties who are willing to
:46:01. > :46:05.make things work should be able to talk to one another. Do you agree
:46:06. > :46:11.with that? In terms of working together in an administration in
:46:12. > :46:16.I'm confident Plaid Cymru can get the best ever election result. I
:46:17. > :46:19.would remind that the Lib Dems are currently in government with this
:46:20. > :46:23.failed Labour government that has been running health and education in
:46:24. > :46:27.Wales since 1999 and I think people are starting to see through that.
:46:28. > :46:29.What we need is Plaid Cymru having as much influence as possible. Thank
:46:30. > :46:30.you. So, it's a busy day
:46:31. > :46:32.here in Westminster, Fortunately Ellie is on hand
:46:33. > :46:46.with her election desk of news. No desk today but I have gazebos and
:46:47. > :46:49.it can mean only one thing on a big set piece here in Westminster and
:46:50. > :46:53.this afternoon Theresa May is off to see the Queen for the formal stuff
:46:54. > :46:58.but as of one minute past midnight last night Parliament was dissolved
:46:59. > :47:02.and there are no many -- no more MPs, just candidates which means the
:47:03. > :47:03.campaign is officially underway and these are a few of the things that
:47:04. > :47:04.have been happening. The Lib Dems have been out
:47:05. > :47:06.in Oxfordshire, driving fear For the local economy
:47:07. > :47:10.it will be a disaster. They are feeling cheery
:47:11. > :47:15.after announcing party membership is at a record high
:47:16. > :47:19.of nearly 102,000. Don't tell people who voted Leave
:47:20. > :47:24.that they didn't know The Greens opted for a long-term
:47:25. > :47:31.strategy of winning over I'm going to try and pitch it
:47:32. > :47:37.to everyone, it's going to be quite The co-leader, Jonathan Bartley,
:47:38. > :47:41.went back to school to make the case for emergency intervention
:47:42. > :47:45.into air pollution. Ukip said international aid should
:47:46. > :47:48.be cut to 0.2% of national income rather than 0.7%,
:47:49. > :47:52.and the BBC licence fee should be At one point yesterday it looked
:47:53. > :47:58.like the SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, was about to steal
:47:59. > :48:00.someone's phone right Later today she's doing some local
:48:01. > :48:07.election campaigning in Toryglen, which is a real place in Glasgow
:48:08. > :48:11.where she hopes there won't be On the campaign trail yesterday,
:48:12. > :48:14.Theresa May got a little peckish and committed one of the cardinal
:48:15. > :48:19.sins in electioneering, This morning, Ed Miliband,
:48:20. > :48:28.who himself had an unfortunate incident with a bacon sandwich
:48:29. > :48:30.in his last campaign, tweeted His conciliatory tone may have
:48:31. > :48:34.something to do with it being the anniversary
:48:35. > :48:36.of the EdStone, his manifesto monolith unveiled two years ago
:48:37. > :48:39.today that set in stone his party's election pledges and
:48:40. > :48:43.universal ridicule. But, over it now, he showed
:48:44. > :48:45.yesterday just how dedicated he is to his constituents,
:48:46. > :49:00.by mowing the lawn. Multitalented! So Parliament has
:49:01. > :49:02.been dissolved but what does that mean?
:49:03. > :49:05.We are joined now by the Clerk of the House of Commons,
:49:06. > :49:07.and their main Constitutional Advisor, David Natzler.
:49:08. > :49:18.So what does it mean? It means that Parliament no longer in this --
:49:19. > :49:23.exists as an institution. It dissolved at one it past midnight
:49:24. > :49:29.but of course it still exist as a building and as an employer. The
:49:30. > :49:34.2300 House of Commons employees are still hard at work. So not a holiday
:49:35. > :49:39.for everybody? I'm afraid it doesn't! They might be able to take
:49:40. > :49:44.a break if they can take annual leave at some time but the building
:49:45. > :49:48.itself is, if anything, more open than usual. We have opened up days
:49:49. > :49:53.we would not normally be open to the public because the houses would be
:49:54. > :49:56.sitting, for public access, and in particular for younger people so we
:49:57. > :50:03.have an offer on if your viewers are watching! Anybody aged 18 to 24,
:50:04. > :50:11.which is not anybody here! They can visit for free. So this is the time
:50:12. > :50:15.to go. It is and they will be harassed by us to register if they
:50:16. > :50:20.have not registered. You are doing a public service. I hope so. It was
:50:21. > :50:25.dissolved at one minute past midnight, is that unusual? No, it
:50:26. > :50:29.just happens to be the beginning of the day on which it dissolves so
:50:30. > :50:34.there is a lot of funny interpretation about these rules as
:50:35. > :50:38.former members of Parliament will know, exactly when it is that there
:50:39. > :50:42.passes get disabled meaning they cannot get in, how long they had to
:50:43. > :50:47.clear their offices, and that applies to the hard-pressed staff,
:50:48. > :50:51.all of whom were taken by surprise I assume. I think you can confidently
:50:52. > :50:56.say that most people were taken aback by the snap election. Now they
:50:57. > :51:03.are not MPs but candidates, are they across the rules, do they know what
:51:04. > :51:08.happened and behave accordingly in terms of not overstepping the mark
:51:09. > :51:11.as they would when they are MPs? Facilities and computers. They never
:51:12. > :51:16.overstepped the mark when they are MPs, we would not allow it! There
:51:17. > :51:22.are rules which are broadly the same as they were in 2015 so only two
:51:23. > :51:26.years ago and it comes about regularly come like Saturdays. This
:51:27. > :51:29.is the tenth dissolution I have experienced, and it is not an
:51:30. > :51:34.amazing event, but the rules are quite complex and we have changed
:51:35. > :51:39.one important aspect in response to requests from members and others is
:51:40. > :51:46.that they and their staff will still have access to our network, that is
:51:47. > :51:52.Thursday and e-mails, but they only use it for sort of hangover
:51:53. > :51:56.parliamentary activities and not for political or campaigning purposes.
:51:57. > :52:00.As last they can also pick is a higher charge if they want to keep
:52:01. > :52:06.on using the equipment we lend them, the hardware, which they can use for
:52:07. > :52:11.electrical but -- electoral purposes but they take charge. It is not I
:52:12. > :52:16.who oversees what they do or anybody else, they must oversee but
:52:17. > :52:21.ultimately in this democratic system there is no shortage of people
:52:22. > :52:25.keeping an eye on what they do in a sometimes critical spirit. The House
:52:26. > :52:30.of Lords is not elected. Could they not continue working and the thing?
:52:31. > :52:33.Not when Parliament is dissolved, the Marnoch summons Parliament and
:52:34. > :52:45.then by statute Parliament is dissolved -- the monarch. But peers
:52:46. > :52:49.are slightly different, different in many ways! But obviously they don't
:52:50. > :52:54.have to go out and campaign to be re-elected. But Parliament as an
:52:55. > :52:59.institution, it is not just the Commons. It is like term has ended
:53:00. > :53:04.at school and that is it. So school is out for you two in one sense!
:53:05. > :53:08.Have you got work to finish in Parliament before you stop? We have
:53:09. > :53:12.been really trying to finish up all the casework we had outstanding from
:53:13. > :53:18.our surgeries before dissolution. There are a couple that we are
:53:19. > :53:26.trying to squeeze this morning and I think I might have to ask David...
:53:27. > :53:33.For an extension? I won't get that! But how I can do that, whether it is
:53:34. > :53:37.as Barry Gardiner even not as an MP. You are now Barry Gardiner not an MP
:53:38. > :53:40.and your e-mails will say that with obligatory text at the bottom and
:53:41. > :53:47.also your social media is the same. I changed that last night! And it is
:53:48. > :53:50.all over for you? Almost although the odd thing is we are still
:53:51. > :53:54.ministers until a new government is formed but it is important we don't
:53:55. > :53:58.engage in work or make announcement that might affect the election so it
:53:59. > :54:04.is very careful. I shall be full-time campaigning for a good
:54:05. > :54:06.result in the West Midlands Mayra election for Andy Street tomorrow.
:54:07. > :54:07.Thank you very much. Let's return now to the local
:54:08. > :54:16.elections which take place tomorrow. I'm joined by Peter Reeve from Ukip
:54:17. > :54:20.and Jonathan Bartley from the Green party.
:54:21. > :54:29.It looks like this will be a car crash for Ukip tomorrow. Not at all,
:54:30. > :54:32.we stand by the way our councillors have worked and are very proud of
:54:33. > :54:39.everything they have done and it will be a tough election for us. In
:54:40. > :54:46.2030 is the equivalent election was our best election result ever -- in
:54:47. > :54:49.2013. We still have 500 councillors, 147 of those being elected this done
:54:50. > :54:58.so no matter what the result, we will still have at least 350
:54:59. > :55:03.councillors so you cup that Ukip in local council goes on strong. The
:55:04. > :55:06.calculations from Plymouth University based on by-election
:55:07. > :55:11.results suggest you will lose over 100 seats. One of the great things
:55:12. > :55:16.about Ukip, whether or not we hold seats in parliament or elsewhere, we
:55:17. > :55:20.influence and we lead the national debate and we do it locally often
:55:21. > :55:24.but in terms of national politics Ukip has led the way for several
:55:25. > :55:28.years, leading the national agenda. I hope many of our councillors get
:55:29. > :55:32.returned and I expect them to because they are some of the hardest
:55:33. > :55:38.working people in politics in the country. Many of them are cleaning
:55:39. > :55:41.public toilets, clean up the street, quitting the roads, doing a
:55:42. > :55:45.practical job and would big comments we have at it one of the big
:55:46. > :55:49.differences between Ukip and other parties is not only do our
:55:50. > :55:52.councillors work harder but because we have no whip, they genuinely
:55:53. > :55:58.represent their constituents and not told how to vote by their parties
:55:59. > :56:05.like the other parties. Indeed, you you have a long record of defections
:56:06. > :56:08.and revolts! Jonathan Bartley, you are contesting more council feeds
:56:09. > :56:15.than in the past but what would a good result look like? -- council
:56:16. > :56:22.seats. There is a slow and steady build and we are fielding 500 woody
:56:23. > :56:26.for more candidates than 2013 and are hoping to make gains in the
:56:27. > :56:28.north-east and the West Midlands which would not necessarily be
:56:29. > :56:33.strong territory for us and in the Isle of Wight. We have recently
:56:34. > :56:36.taken a seat in by-elections of Ukip and labour and we are looking to
:56:37. > :56:40.build on that. The more people see of us, the more they like the
:56:41. > :56:44.Greens. We don't want to pick and implode like you we want to build
:56:45. > :56:49.steadily. You say the more people see you the more they like you but
:56:50. > :56:56.your party was in charge of Brighton council where you introduced gender
:56:57. > :57:02.neutral council forms and bullet and meat free Mondays in the staff
:57:03. > :57:05.canteen. How scandalous! But you had a problem getting the rubbish
:57:06. > :57:11.collected which seems to be but a fundamental issue for a party that
:57:12. > :57:14.calls itself green. The issue of course was labour and the
:57:15. > :57:19.Conservatives getting together to impose an austerity budget. We were
:57:20. > :57:23.not in overall control, a minor key demonstration in Brighton so we got
:57:24. > :57:27.a lot done, introducing the living wage and more affordable housing and
:57:28. > :57:33.a 20 mph speed limit which cut casualties in five months by 19% and
:57:34. > :57:38.collisions by 20%, things that change lives. That is what local
:57:39. > :57:43.elections tend to be determined by, if you don't deliver on the ground.
:57:44. > :57:45.And when we are not in control and Labour and Conservatives were
:57:46. > :57:53.imposed austerity there was nothing you can do. And what about your
:57:54. > :57:57.record in local government? You won control of Thanet District Council
:57:58. > :58:01.in Kent in 2015 but then lost control because your councillors
:58:02. > :58:05.kept resigning and defecting. We are still in control of that council and
:58:06. > :58:11.we are proud of what they have done. You lost full control. When you look
:58:12. > :58:15.at their output, when that council was run by conservatives and Labour
:58:16. > :58:20.it was described by the LGA as toxic. You could have turned it
:58:21. > :58:23.around and the last LGA report praised Chris Wells and the
:58:24. > :58:28.leadership team and said that Ukip have the Council in good hands. Even
:58:29. > :58:31.today we are talking about reopening Manston airport which is something
:58:32. > :58:36.Labour and the Conservatives gave up and we will build a snag and would
:58:37. > :58:38.build houses all over. We will have to leave it, I thank you both.
:58:39. > :58:46.The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:47. > :58:50.I'll will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big