:00:36. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.After a strong showing in the local elections last week,
:00:44. > :00:52.Theresa May is out on the general election campaign trail today
:00:53. > :00:54.re-stating her commitment to the Tories' so far failed target
:00:55. > :00:58.of reducing net immigration to the tens of thousands.
:00:59. > :01:01.Jeremy Corbyn is focusing on health today, unveiling a fresh Labour
:01:02. > :01:03.pledge for free parking at NHS hospitals in England,
:01:04. > :01:07.paid for by increasing tax on private health insurance.
:01:08. > :01:09.The BBC announces plans for a televised election debate
:01:10. > :01:12.featuring seven parties on May 31st but it won't feature
:01:13. > :01:21.We've got full details of the beeb's special election programming.
:01:22. > :01:23.And we are taking the mood box on the road across the whole
:01:24. > :01:25.of the UK for the general election campaign.
:01:26. > :01:37.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole
:01:38. > :01:39.of the programme today are the former Attorney General
:01:40. > :01:41.Dominic Grieve and the Shadow Foreign Office Minister,
:01:42. > :01:48.So lots to discuss, but before we get stuck
:01:49. > :01:51.in to the British general election, let's take a look at the election
:01:52. > :01:53.across the Channel and the victory of centrist
:01:54. > :02:00.candidate Emmanuel Macron as the new President of France.
:02:01. > :02:04.In the second round run-off between Mr Macron and Marine Le Pen,
:02:05. > :02:07.the leader of the Front National, Mr Macron took two thirds
:02:08. > :02:16.Speaking last night outside the Louvre in Paris,
:02:17. > :02:23.Emanuel Macron said a new page was being turned in French history.
:02:24. > :02:26.TRANSLATION: What we've done for so many months,
:02:27. > :02:28.there is no comparison, there is no equivalent to that.
:02:29. > :02:32.Everybody was saying to us it was impossible.
:02:33. > :02:39.But they didn't know anything about France!
:02:40. > :02:46.Victory speech therefore Emmanuel Macron. I mean, it was a pretty
:02:47. > :02:51.impressive win for him, bearing in mind he hadn't been elected before.
:02:52. > :02:54.But will it be good for Britain and Brexit, Dominic Grieve? I think on
:02:55. > :02:58.the face of it it must be a good thing to have a moderate and
:02:59. > :03:03.sensible President as the President of France. Is it going to give as
:03:04. > :03:07.advantages in the Brexit negotiations? I rather doubt it.
:03:08. > :03:10.France will clearly look to its long-term national advantage but
:03:11. > :03:13.some of that national advantage is bound up with ours. It is in the
:03:14. > :03:18.French interest to have good trading relations and a stable relationship
:03:19. > :03:21.with the UK. I would be very surprised if Mr Macron did not
:03:22. > :03:26.understand that and therefore I would expect and hope that he will
:03:27. > :03:28.be reasonable in approaching the Brexit negotiations and will look at
:03:29. > :03:33.those areas where French interest and our own in fact meet. And there
:03:34. > :03:37.is a longer-term security issue which is of immense importance and
:03:38. > :03:41.the French know this. The UK is their key security partner in the
:03:42. > :03:46.European context. Although he says he wants to reform the lid to pay
:03:47. > :03:52.agreement which we will come to in a moment. How will Jeremy Corbyn if he
:03:53. > :04:00.is Prime Minister after the general election approached discussions? Or
:04:01. > :04:04.how should he approached them? I really loved the motto, the bringing
:04:05. > :04:08.together in the national interest of France. And that is the key thing of
:04:09. > :04:13.the negotiations, searching out the key things we can do together and
:04:14. > :04:17.resolving those, rather than megaphone diplomacy. Emmanuel Macron
:04:18. > :04:21.has said in the past that Britain can expect no concessions in the
:04:22. > :04:26.Brexit negotiations and we will see if he sticks to that and he has said
:04:27. > :04:31.that he will hold a rigid line on the single market and access to the
:04:32. > :04:38.European court. I think what get says in election campaigns and what
:04:39. > :04:41.happens afterwards with a clear head is different. That is why Keir
:04:42. > :04:48.Starmer will be so fantastic as our number one negotiator. We're looking
:04:49. > :04:51.at pictures now off Emmanuel Macron, the President-elect, and Francois
:04:52. > :04:55.Hollande, the outgoing President of France, meeting at the World War II
:04:56. > :05:10.memorial. You mention security, Dominic Grieve. I mentioned the lE
:05:11. > :05:14.-- Touquet agreement which allows passport checking to be done in
:05:15. > :05:25.France. It was clear at the time that the agreement would be
:05:26. > :05:28.beneficial to both parties, but following the arrival of so many
:05:29. > :05:31.migrants in the Schengen area, it turned out to be bad for the French.
:05:32. > :05:37.It would be very bad if it was changed for us. And even outside of
:05:38. > :05:41.the EU we need to be able to facilitate movement of people
:05:42. > :05:45.between both countries. I am not horribly pessimistic about the
:05:46. > :05:48.future of the Le Touquet agreement. One of the consequences Brexit which
:05:49. > :05:50.was predicted at the time was that this would come up for review and
:05:51. > :05:56.the French would probably take a different view than they did before
:05:57. > :05:59.Brexit. And before the referendum. I think it is inevitable that that
:06:00. > :06:02.will go into the mixture of our bilateral relations but it is worth
:06:03. > :06:06.bearing in mind that it is not linked directly to the EU at all.
:06:07. > :06:11.Manual Macron has been pretty shameless in his ambition to your
:06:12. > :06:14.French workers and money back to France, and as you know there are
:06:15. > :06:20.many French workers here. They say London is the fourth biggest city in
:06:21. > :06:23.France. Just quickly on the Le Touquet agreement, we remember the
:06:24. > :06:27.chaos last year just after the referendum. I am afraid if we don't
:06:28. > :06:31.have a plan, if we don't get our ducks lined up in a row, and stop
:06:32. > :06:36.the megaphone diplomacy and think about the facts, we will have a
:06:37. > :06:40.similar situation. But on the question of the finance sector and
:06:41. > :06:43.so on, due to Brexit I believe we have lost hundreds of people who
:06:44. > :06:47.work in the financial sector already and as a London MP that is something
:06:48. > :06:49.that concerns me. I would like to get them back. We will leave it
:06:50. > :06:53.there for the moment. The question for today
:06:54. > :06:57.is all about Tim Farron. The Lib Dem leader has revealed
:06:58. > :07:01.that, as a boy, he had a poster in his bedroom of a rather
:07:02. > :07:03.unusual political icon. Was it:
:07:04. > :07:06.a) Che Guevara At the end of the show Dominic
:07:07. > :07:11.and Catherine will give Throughout the general election
:07:12. > :07:19.campaign we'll be getting political insight from two top
:07:20. > :07:20.political journalists. Today
:07:21. > :07:22.we're joined by Christopher Hope of the Telegraph and the political
:07:23. > :07:30.commentator Martha Gill. I am sure you are going to live up
:07:31. > :07:37.to that great billing of the two of you! Welcome to the programme. What
:07:38. > :07:42.sort of campaign is it going to be? Battle buses? Morning conferences?
:07:43. > :07:46.How will it feel? I think no. Apart from the Lib Dems and Ukip, who are
:07:47. > :07:50.doing press conferences, but not every morning. The Lib Dems have got
:07:51. > :07:54.the yellow battle bus and we are yet to see a Tory or Labour one and it
:07:55. > :07:58.is hard for me and mother to get onto them. Normally it is a few
:07:59. > :07:59.camera crews and a wire service and that is it so we are left trying to
:08:00. > :08:14.scramble to where they are going to be, and cut
:08:15. > :08:16.them off at the pass. We have more control than ever with a short
:08:17. > :08:19.campaign. Mother, what will you be doing? Chris has made suggestions.
:08:20. > :08:21.How will you keep tabs and hold their feet to the fire? It is
:08:22. > :08:23.difficult, particularly with the Tories. The campaign is all about
:08:24. > :08:25.Theresa May. There has really been no difference between the local at
:08:26. > :08:29.the general election in that respect, I think. The local and
:08:30. > :08:33.general election have been exactly the same and all about Theresa May
:08:34. > :08:40.and her message. Labour looks disorganised. I think probably what
:08:41. > :08:45.will happen is local candidates are going to distance themselves from
:08:46. > :08:49.Jeremy Corbyn at it. That is what we saw having the most success in the
:08:50. > :08:54.local election. The Lib Dems will try as hard as they can to push the
:08:55. > :08:57.anti-Brexit message. Let's talk about the issues, namely immigration
:08:58. > :09:01.and the target that the Tories looked as if they may well restate
:09:02. > :09:05.in terms of bringing net migration down to tens of thousands. Before I
:09:06. > :09:11.come to you, this is what Theresa May had to say in Harrow.
:09:12. > :09:14.It is important that we continue and we will continue to say that we do
:09:15. > :09:16.want to bring net migration down to sustainable levels.
:09:17. > :09:18.We believe that is the tens of thousands.
:09:19. > :09:20.And of course once we leave the European
:09:21. > :09:23.Union we will have the opportunity to ensure that we have control of
:09:24. > :09:27.our borders here in the UK because we will be able to establish our
:09:28. > :09:30.rules for people coming from the European Union into the UK.
:09:31. > :09:32.That's a part of the picture we haven't been
:09:33. > :09:35.able to control before and we will be able to control it.
:09:36. > :09:37.Leaving the EU means that we won't have freedom
:09:38. > :09:46.of movement as it has been in the past.
:09:47. > :09:50.So they are going to go for it again. The Tories have got nowhere
:09:51. > :09:55.near that pledge of bringing migration down to tens of thousands
:09:56. > :10:00.so will it be third time lucky? It is not just the Tories, it was
:10:01. > :10:04.Theresa May as Home Secretary, and it is on her watch. It is a problem
:10:05. > :10:08.getting a net figure when you don't know how many people will leave the
:10:09. > :10:11.country. You get the net figure when you take off the number of people
:10:12. > :10:15.leaving and those coming back, which is why it is so hard to hit it.
:10:16. > :10:19.Amber Rudd said yesterday that she thought the figure would be the same
:10:20. > :10:25.as the last one and now Tories are slapping down. In that press
:10:26. > :10:29.Conference that you played there, Theresa May will be discussing the
:10:30. > :10:33.Le Touquet agreement with President Macron from France, which is very
:10:34. > :10:38.interesting. The big question there is word of the Jungle camp go, the
:10:39. > :10:44.north of France or cad? The fact that is on the table again could be
:10:45. > :10:50.a problem for Theresa May. -- the north of France or Kent? She has
:10:51. > :10:56.said it will not be freedom of movement as we have known it but
:10:57. > :11:00.what will come in its place? The fact that she has stuck by that
:11:01. > :11:08.100,000 figure from 2010 indicates that she is willing to tie herself
:11:09. > :11:15.up, tie her hands, in order not to rock the Brexiteer vote at the
:11:16. > :11:18.moment. That 100,000 figure was an albatross around David Cameron's
:11:19. > :11:22.neck and many said it was the biggest mistake he ever made.
:11:23. > :11:25.Theresa May is falling into exactly the same trap. It will become even
:11:26. > :11:31.more toxic with Brexit as people watch that figure. It will be
:11:32. > :11:36.something that the globalists in her party and the local lists can really
:11:37. > :11:43.fight over. But she is willing to take that risk and really ensure
:11:44. > :11:47.that this election doesn't get any... She doesn't lose any
:11:48. > :11:52.Brexiteer votes. On freedom of movement we expected to go in a
:11:53. > :11:56.similar direction at the moment. Let's look at health, Labour's
:11:57. > :11:59.chosen issue today. They were talking about a range of things that
:12:00. > :12:03.perhaps the most eye-catching is this idea of free NHS hospital
:12:04. > :12:16.parking. Just listen to Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader. If you go
:12:17. > :12:20.there in an emergency, I don't think you should be charged for doing so.
:12:21. > :12:25.I have just been talking to nurses, some of whom are community nurses,
:12:26. > :12:28.who go to different hospitals at different times, others do night
:12:29. > :12:31.shifts and there is no public transport available, and they have
:12:32. > :12:36.got to park their car and often they have to pay for the privilege of
:12:37. > :12:40.parking at the place of work where they have got to be and they have
:12:41. > :12:44.had frozen pay for seven years so I think it is absolutely right that
:12:45. > :12:50.going to a hospital doesn't incur an additional charge. In reality it is
:12:51. > :12:55.a charge on sickness. That will be popular, won't it? I can hear my
:12:56. > :13:00.voice echoing. Sorry. For sure it will be popular. It plays very well
:13:01. > :13:07.into Labour's key voters. Though more charges for parking, but
:13:08. > :13:10.hitting people who can afford private insurance. -- no more
:13:11. > :13:15.charges for parking. But it will face the same criticism that many of
:13:16. > :13:22.Labour's policies do. Will this cover the cost? Parking fines and
:13:23. > :13:26.charges have filled gaps in the NHS. Is this really something we want to
:13:27. > :13:31.lose? But it is more than that. It is punishing any kind of aspiration.
:13:32. > :13:35.People want to work hard and pay taxes for health care and fund the
:13:36. > :13:39.wonderful NHS, but also pay money into an insurance scheme to go to
:13:40. > :13:44.the doctor when they want to, and I think this policy is damaging to
:13:45. > :13:48.aspiration. It is Jeremy Corbyn not reaching out. Parking charges have
:13:49. > :13:52.been a big issue. We have written in The Telegraph about how unfair it is
:13:53. > :13:58.to be taxed to go to sleep a relative in hospital but I think it
:13:59. > :14:02.is a tax on aspiration and that is the problem he has got. Moving on
:14:03. > :14:06.the television debates, Theresa May has said she will not do leaders
:14:07. > :14:10.debate in terms of debating had to head with Jeremy Corbyn. Will
:14:11. > :14:15.pressure come on them during the campaign? I think so. The BBC
:14:16. > :14:22.announcement at lunchtime today, about having Question Time sessions
:14:23. > :14:25.with voters in the audience questioning the leaders
:14:26. > :14:30.individually. It will not wash. Theresa May seem to have won the
:14:31. > :14:33.battle with the BBC. There will be a seven strong front bench debate. ITV
:14:34. > :14:37.are going to have a go at doing the debates and good luck to them. Our
:14:38. > :14:42.readers, voters and viewers want to see had to hand combat which they
:14:43. > :14:45.will not get if Theresa May gets her way. Thank you. Let's pick up on
:14:46. > :14:56.some of the points discussed there. Let's pick up on some of those
:14:57. > :15:00.points, if this isn't going to be freedom of movement as we know and
:15:01. > :15:05.what are the feasible alternatives? We'll have to see how this develops
:15:06. > :15:11.because there are different options. Which would you prefer? Clearly when
:15:12. > :15:14.you consider our European partners there is great design ability that
:15:15. > :15:20.people should be able to come in and out of the UK. We are not about to
:15:21. > :15:24.impose visas on millions of tourists coming over to visit Westminster
:15:25. > :15:29.Abbey. So we will have people coming from the EU to work here. Not
:15:30. > :15:33.necessarily because if you have a work permit system after we leave
:15:34. > :15:38.the EU you'll be able to regulate the number of permits you give out.
:15:39. > :15:42.The desirability of reducing overall net migration, I've no doubt about
:15:43. > :15:45.it because if you look at the pressure it is based on communities
:15:46. > :15:51.and infrastructure it is very real in those areas where they are most
:15:52. > :15:55.concentrated. It is also right to say that achieving that reduction
:15:56. > :15:59.will be very challenging. And very challenging to achieve that tens of
:16:00. > :16:05.thousands pledged to bring down net migration. It hasn't been done,
:16:06. > :16:11.anything like it. Is it sensible to be stated? We had net migration in
:16:12. > :16:18.the tens of thousands in the 1990s. It hasn't been achieved since this
:16:19. > :16:21.pledge... Absolutely right, successive governments have
:16:22. > :16:25.indicated a desire to reduce immigration and not been able to
:16:26. > :16:30.achieve that. On leaving the EU the options are doing and are increased
:16:31. > :16:33.because the freedom of movement linked to EU membership goes. It
:16:34. > :16:39.will still be a challenge but I don't criticise the Prime Minister
:16:40. > :16:43.for coming along and making it an aspiration, indicating that they are
:16:44. > :16:48.seeking to reducing it to those levels. And fail again if the past
:16:49. > :16:55.record is anything to go by. Can we look to health. Very briefly, three
:16:56. > :16:59.quick points. One, broken promise. Two, Labour would move towards
:17:00. > :17:03.allowing all EU National is to remain on the first day of the
:17:04. > :17:07.Labour government. That is our unilateral pledge. And three, take
:17:08. > :17:12.students out of absolute target because it is breaking our
:17:13. > :17:15.university system, one of our biggest exports. Why isn't it
:17:16. > :17:22.happening because everyone seems to think it is right to take students
:17:23. > :17:24.out of that target. The measure of international migration includes
:17:25. > :17:27.students, something I've always found surprising. I don't think
:17:28. > :17:32.people are concerned at the number of students coming into the country
:17:33. > :17:36.as long as this number is not the feel of long-term migration. The
:17:37. > :17:40.difficulty that the government has is to depart from an internationally
:17:41. > :17:44.recognised Norm will attract criticism and I suspect that is one
:17:45. > :17:48.reason why the Prime Minister is very reluctant to do it. Let's talk
:17:49. > :17:55.about health because as well as free image is parking Labour wants to ban
:17:56. > :18:00.junk food advertising during programmes like the X Factor, hardly
:18:01. > :18:04.revolutionary, and if you go ahead with the proposal to stop car
:18:05. > :18:08.parking charges again it has not been costed. So many people who are
:18:09. > :18:13.ill are facing this extra cost every time they go to hospital. Is the
:18:14. > :18:17.sort of thing Labour can do. It's not extremely expensive. It's
:18:18. > :18:23.between ?160 million and ?190 million. It is feasible and I think
:18:24. > :18:25.it is the correct thing to do, especially for staff who are running
:18:26. > :18:30.out of appointments to put more pennies into the parking meter. We
:18:31. > :18:35.need something workable. This is not only going to food banks, they have
:18:36. > :18:38.to stump up extra money because they are on consultancy arrangements that
:18:39. > :18:41.they don't know which hospital they will be ad from one day to the next
:18:42. > :18:45.and it seems to me something we could sort out overnight but the
:18:46. > :18:47.government has failed to do so until now. Let's move on.
:18:48. > :18:50.With just over four weeks to go until the general
:18:51. > :18:52.election on June 8th, the main parties' tax plans
:18:53. > :18:57.Labour have put forward a so-called "personal tax guarantee".
:18:58. > :18:59.This means that, under a Labour government,
:19:00. > :19:02.there would be no rises in the standard rate of VAT, personal
:19:03. > :19:05.National Insurance Contributions or income tax on those earning less
:19:06. > :19:13.than ?80,000 a year, which is 95% of taxpayers.
:19:14. > :19:15.However, the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell
:19:16. > :19:18.said yesterday that people earning more than ?80,000 a year would have
:19:19. > :19:29.refused to say whether or not they will repeat the so-called
:19:30. > :19:33."triple tax lock", this was a promise not to raise income
:19:34. > :19:36.tax, VAT or national insurance, which they made at the last
:19:37. > :19:42.In a recent interview Theresa May said "We won't be increasing VAT."
:19:43. > :19:44.But she did not make a similar promise for either income tax
:19:45. > :19:48.Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrats have said that they would raise
:19:49. > :19:55.They say that this would raise ?6 billion,
:19:56. > :19:58.and that money would be ring-fenced for the NHS and social care.
:19:59. > :20:00.The party's leader Tim Farron said the money
:20:01. > :20:13.Let's look at what John McDonnell the Shadow Chancellor said about
:20:14. > :20:17.Labour's tax policy yesterday. What we are saying is anyone earning
:20:18. > :20:21.below ?80,000 will be guaranteed, you're not have an increase in
:20:22. > :20:24.income tax, the 80 national insurance contributions and for
:20:25. > :20:30.those above ?80,000 we are asking them to pay a mod and bit more to
:20:31. > :20:34.fund our public services. You had Theresa May on last week. You put
:20:35. > :20:47.that good question to her about nurses, 11% cut in wages in the
:20:48. > :20:51.last seven years and some of them having to go to food banks, nurses,
:20:52. > :20:53.that can't be right. We will ask those higher earners just to pay a
:20:54. > :20:56.bit more. Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell.
:20:57. > :20:58.We've been joined to discuss the parties' tax promises
:20:59. > :21:01.by the Liberal Democrat, Dick Newby.
:21:02. > :21:07.Is it possible that the party will raise national insurance
:21:08. > :21:11.contributions? Will have to wait for the manifesto but two things, Labour
:21:12. > :21:16.will be much tougher on the corporations, we know that from
:21:17. > :21:20.2011-15 Thames water, paid zero corporation tax. So we will make
:21:21. > :21:28.sure that the corporations pay their tax. Why should we pay our 's and
:21:29. > :21:31.they pay zero... We will change the legislation which the Tories have
:21:32. > :21:36.had seven years to do and failed to do. They've failed to crack down on
:21:37. > :21:39.corporations paying supertax. You can set the rate of 40 alike but
:21:40. > :21:45.you've allowed a loophole such as the one that has developed under the
:21:46. > :21:48.Tory government -- you can set which of the rate you like but if you have
:21:49. > :21:53.allowed a loophole, these people are getting away with paying zero. How
:21:54. > :22:00.will we get the money ad of the system which exists already... What
:22:01. > :22:06.rate of corporation tax? You want to reverse any cuts. What rate will the
:22:07. > :22:11.party set it at? That will be in the manifesto but the main thing is that
:22:12. > :22:15.they pay it. What was the rate that they have been paying zero on?
:22:16. > :22:23.That's the real injustice, Jo. Very briefly because I want to go onto
:22:24. > :22:26.policies. This is a sideline. The questions to the legal framework of
:22:27. > :22:30.corporation tax may be relevant and I am in favour of closing
:22:31. > :22:37.loopholes... Voters won't be pleased if they found out corporations are
:22:38. > :22:42.not paying their share. This having an impact on revenue is negligible.
:22:43. > :22:44.The reality is that by cutting corporation tax the Conservative
:22:45. > :22:48.government has raised the amount you get to corporation tax because the
:22:49. > :22:53.economy has grown. This is what Labour will attack and, I'm afraid,
:22:54. > :22:57.undermined because they have never had a coherent economic policy and
:22:58. > :23:01.their tax policies always have the consequence of reducing economic
:23:02. > :23:06.growth... They seem to be clear on the tax policy. Labour has promised
:23:07. > :23:10.not to raise the standard rate of VAT. Does that leave open the chance
:23:11. > :23:15.of raising the reduced rate of VAT paid on things like energy? Talking
:23:16. > :23:23.about energy, big company like Thames Water, let's look at how much
:23:24. > :23:27.tax they pay first. This is about Labour's tax policy... Our priority
:23:28. > :23:32.is not your average person today paying more tax, it's about getting
:23:33. > :23:37.the corporations, which are greedy, and taking all they can, as
:23:38. > :23:40.disturbing, you have to agree on this, the government has done
:23:41. > :23:46.nothing to crack down on these big companies. They can pay so much more
:23:47. > :23:52.than an average person... And so according to John McDonnell is
:23:53. > :23:56.people paying ?80,000. He will protect 90% of the working
:23:57. > :23:59.population. That will be revealed in the manifesto. Of course but when
:24:00. > :24:04.promises like this made people want to know that they are going to lead
:24:05. > :24:10.the amount of money that say... Thames Cameron - David Cameron
:24:11. > :24:14.wanted to cut down on business loopholes and yet Thames Water paid
:24:15. > :24:20.no corporation tax in those years, how can that be fair? There was this
:24:21. > :24:25.triple tax lock not to raise the three main taxes and of course
:24:26. > :24:27.Philip Hammond did the opposite and tried to raise national insurance
:24:28. > :24:33.contributions class war. Why should anyone trust what you say in your
:24:34. > :24:35.manifesto. I hope the manifesto will avoid detailed pledges because
:24:36. > :24:40.everything that I have ever seen shows that you have an intention
:24:41. > :24:44.which is that they are a low tax party and we have been consistent in
:24:45. > :24:48.trying to achieve that everyone but if you stop making detailed promises
:24:49. > :24:52.particularly at a time of economic turbulence linked to leaving the
:24:53. > :24:58.European Union you are likely to saddle yourself with potential
:24:59. > :25:03.problems. I will read the manifesto with interest but in my view I think
:25:04. > :25:11.that blocks are probably and desirable. Except that of swing
:25:12. > :25:15.voters are trying to decide who to vote for and Labour say they won't
:25:16. > :25:26.raise income tax and 95% of people, then you should vote Labour if you
:25:27. > :25:31.want a lower tax. They've got a ?45 billion hole in their financial
:25:32. > :25:35.projections, we will they fill it from, they've either got to borrow
:25:36. > :25:41.it or they will have to raise taxes which will be equally bad, I would
:25:42. > :25:47.not believe a word the Labour manifesto says on this. You promised
:25:48. > :25:53.not to increase national insurance contributions. David Cameron said
:25:54. > :26:03.that there wouldn't be an increase in VAT and appoint VAT. Being a
:26:04. > :26:09.voter, Labour is going to be the party to relieve the tax burden so
:26:10. > :26:16.far, it seems. We've taken 4 million people and of higher tax, we have
:26:17. > :26:19.taken people out of tax altogether, the culmination of raising tax
:26:20. > :26:24.thresholds and the living wage is likely to benefit the poorest. For
:26:25. > :26:28.those reasons everyone should trust the Conservative government over
:26:29. > :26:35.this because its record on this is very good. And what about Thames
:26:36. > :26:43.Water? We've mentioned them, they are just one company. We are talking
:26:44. > :26:48.about tax proposals. Dick, is it fair to raise all rates by the same
:26:49. > :26:52.percentage, whether you are a basic rate taxpayer or a higher rate
:26:53. > :26:56.taxpayer? The great thing about income tax generally is that it is
:26:57. > :27:02.the most fair tax. On this policy, it means that a nurse, for example,
:27:03. > :27:07.will pay an extra three or four quid a week, but someone on a quarter of
:27:08. > :27:11.a million pounds will pay an extra few thousand pounds a year. This is
:27:12. > :27:15.a fair way of dealing with a national crisis. The other parties
:27:16. > :27:20.admit there is a problem that haven't found a way of dealing with
:27:21. > :27:26.it because the Labour proposal is incredible, you can't get 6 billion
:27:27. > :27:31.quid out of people who burn over ?80,000 a year because as we know,
:27:32. > :27:39.once you put up headline tax rates, they stop paying it. Why is John
:27:40. > :27:48.McDonnell being so timid, you won't raise anything like ?6 million,
:27:49. > :27:51.which Dick Newby says will put more money in the NHS, it yours won't
:27:52. > :27:55.raise much but it will put more burden on the people you want to
:27:56. > :27:59.hit. We've had seven years to deal with rip-off companies who takes
:28:00. > :28:04.much money out of our economy day in, day out... What John McDonnell
:28:05. > :28:08.is saying is that that isn't where most of the money is coming from.
:28:09. > :28:15.They've had seven years to do it and they haven't done it. What will this
:28:16. > :28:25.race? This seems to be displacement activity. And the first to accept
:28:26. > :28:28.that tax avoidance is a loophole but to suggest that this will certainly
:28:29. > :28:35.lead to massive sums of money which will fund Labour's ?45 million black
:28:36. > :28:39.hole I think is fanciful. What is the ?45 million black hole, what is
:28:40. > :28:42.that referring to? They have referred to a range of things that
:28:43. > :28:52.they say they wish to finance more and which on the face of it, when
:28:53. > :28:56.you total the aggregate promises, they may clarify where that is but
:28:57. > :29:00.when you aggregate it up is the figure. And John McDonnell has not
:29:01. > :29:03.explained that. There have been a series of promises about more money
:29:04. > :29:08.for everything. And let's face it, I am the first to accept that in any
:29:09. > :29:13.society with public services, you can find a justification... And many
:29:14. > :29:16.people will find many of those policies popular, especially if they
:29:17. > :29:30.feel that there is a crisis, for example in social care and the
:29:31. > :29:32.NHS... If that economy is wrecked in the process that money will never
:29:33. > :29:34.come. The Tories have borrowed twice as much as both Labour governments
:29:35. > :29:38.put together between 1997 and 2010. From 2010 to 2017 have borrowed...
:29:39. > :29:44.As usual, the Lib Dems are attacking Labour. Let Dick Newby make his
:29:45. > :29:53.point. You both failed to do with tax avoidance. No we didn't! Let
:29:54. > :29:56.Dick Newby answer. Because of the high levels of investment that
:29:57. > :30:02.Thames Water have made they offset that against their tax liability. If
:30:03. > :30:06.you are saying you want to change... I thought that was separate...
:30:07. > :30:10.Corporation tax in the last financial year went up considerably
:30:11. > :30:16.because people invested less. If you want that to happen, find that there
:30:17. > :30:22.is no easy huge bucks out of companies. We need to move on now.
:30:23. > :30:26.You need incentives for investment, and the corporations, which happen
:30:27. > :30:30.to be the Tory donors on the whole, they are the ones... You have made
:30:31. > :30:41.your point, Catherine. I need to ask Dick Newby about something else. The
:30:42. > :30:46.Conservatives have sent out a press piece suggesting that Labour
:30:47. > :30:51.supporters should vote for the Lib Dems. Labour voters should make up
:30:52. > :30:56.their minds for the most important thing is for them. If the most
:30:57. > :31:00.important thing for them is Brexit, they have a hard Brexit Conservative
:31:01. > :31:05.and a strong, moderate Labour candidate, who is a strong Remainer,
:31:06. > :31:10.it wouldn't surprise me if they voted for that Labour candidate. But
:31:11. > :31:13.you shouldn't be encouraging it as official party policy. It is for
:31:14. > :31:17.everybody to make their own mind up in the seat where they live. So you
:31:18. > :31:21.wouldn't want to adopt it as party policy as Vince Cable would like to
:31:22. > :31:27.see? It is for everybody to decide in the seat where they live in the
:31:28. > :31:28.absence of PR to decide who best represents their interest. Thank
:31:29. > :31:34.you. In the last hour, the BBC has
:31:35. > :31:37.announced the details of its special Election Debate on Wednesday May
:31:38. > :31:48.31st, a seven-way debate on policy, involving senior spokespeople
:31:49. > :31:50.from the Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrat,
:31:51. > :31:52.SNP, Plaid Cymru, Green Two days later on Friday June 2nd,
:31:53. > :31:59.David Dimbleby will chair a Question Time Leaders Special
:32:00. > :32:02.from York live on BBC One, featuring And on Sunday 4th June, leaders
:32:03. > :32:06.Tim Farron and Nicola Sturgeon will take part in a second
:32:07. > :32:10.Question Time Special, Leanne Wood and Paul Nuttall
:32:11. > :32:16.will also face questions that Sunday in separate programmes
:32:17. > :32:17.from Swansea and The final debate before the election
:32:18. > :32:26.will be a Newsbeat Youth Debate in Manchester on Tuesday 6th June,
:32:27. > :32:28.where leading Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, SNP, Plaid Cymru,
:32:29. > :32:38.Green and Ukip politicians will face questions in front of an audience
:32:39. > :32:40.of 16 to 34-year-olds. Elsewhere Andrew Neil will be
:32:41. > :32:42.presenting a series of one-on-one interviews with Theresa May,
:32:43. > :32:47.Jeremy Corbyn, Tim Farron, Paul Nuttall and Nicola
:32:48. > :32:48.Sturgeon throughout We've been joined by the BBC's head
:32:49. > :33:02.of newsgathering and elections Welcome. There are reports that
:33:03. > :33:08.Theresa May will be appearing on The One Show on Tuesday night. That is
:33:09. > :33:11.true. She will be on the sofa at seven o'clock tomorrow night and
:33:12. > :33:15.there will be other interviews with party leaders on the show. It is not
:33:16. > :33:20.part of the debate strategy but that is true. And what about Jeremy
:33:21. > :33:24.Corbyn's wife? It is up to Mr and Mrs Corbyn about whether they want
:33:25. > :33:28.to appear as a couple. The invitation has been extended. The
:33:29. > :33:33.seven way debate on the 51st of May that I mentioned, involving all the
:33:34. > :33:38.major parties, it is trailed that senior spokespeople will take part
:33:39. > :33:42.and not the leaders. Why not? -- on the 31st of May. Theresa May
:33:43. > :33:46.announced that she would not take part in any television debate. We
:33:47. > :33:48.went into the process of piecing together a plan for our programmes
:33:49. > :33:52.knowing that the Prime Minister would not appear in that format. So
:33:53. > :33:56.you accept did it right there and decided not to work for it? We asked
:33:57. > :34:00.officials in Downing Street whether that was likely to change and we
:34:01. > :34:11.were told it wouldn't on several occasions. We had a position that
:34:12. > :34:13.was clear. The Prime Minister has decided not to take part in the
:34:14. > :34:15.programmes, which is perfectly within her rights. We discussed
:34:16. > :34:17.whether to do a seven hander or so-called leaders debate eliminating
:34:18. > :34:20.the Prime Minister and her party. There were leader debates in 2010
:34:21. > :34:27.and in 2015. Are you letting the Prime Minister off the hook by not
:34:28. > :34:30.having a leaders debate with an empty chair? We don't really believe
:34:31. > :34:34.in an empty chair. It is embarrassing someone and it is not
:34:35. > :34:38.in the interests of the audience. We want a format that is for the
:34:39. > :34:42.audience, who are large part the electorate. And if you want to
:34:43. > :34:45.discuss immigration or the health service, the audience is best served
:34:46. > :34:49.by hearing all the cases from the parties they can vote for. If you
:34:50. > :34:53.are saying that because one or two leaders have decided not to take
:34:54. > :34:57.part, you eliminate that argument from the picture, and don't that is
:34:58. > :35:00.in the interest of the audiences overall. ITV have extended
:35:01. > :35:04.invitations to the leaders of those seven parties and they will run that
:35:05. > :35:08.debate with whoever replies. The leaders are very welcome to turn up
:35:09. > :35:12.for hours and they know that. There will be a mixed bag. There will be
:35:13. > :35:15.leaders and non-leaders from the various parties and ITV have made
:35:16. > :35:19.their own perfectly legitimate decision but it is not the
:35:20. > :35:23.conclusion we came to. Is anybody confirm that debate? A few people
:35:24. > :35:27.but until all the cast list is confirmed, we will not publicise it,
:35:28. > :35:29.we have said that to the parties. The debate that happened in 2015
:35:30. > :35:48.involving Ed Miliband and other opposition parties, why not do
:35:49. > :35:51.that again? I don't think it was investing for the audience because
:35:52. > :35:53.you didn't hear from the governing parties, and there were two in the
:35:54. > :35:56.coalition at the time and nobody was on the stage. It was a complicated
:35:57. > :35:59.balance with other programmes and so on, and I think this time we have a
:36:00. > :36:01.better solution given the circumstances that the Prime
:36:02. > :36:03.Minister has decided not to do it. You don't think that if more
:36:04. > :36:06.pressure is brought to bear, that eventually Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa
:36:07. > :36:08.May would be forced to turn up? The freedom of speech comes with the
:36:09. > :36:10.freedom not to speak. If political leaders decide for whatever reason,
:36:11. > :36:13.and we have not discussed the reasons, it is up to the parties, if
:36:14. > :36:16.they have chosen not to take part, we are not really into strong arming
:36:17. > :36:22.people into the studio. We want to bring people in who want to debate.
:36:23. > :36:26.Theresa May, is she running scared? I don't think so. Listening to what
:36:27. > :36:29.has been said, I think the format is very interesting. Of course because
:36:30. > :36:34.she is not and extended pressure to come. The point for me is whether
:36:35. > :36:38.you are going to get the discussion. I have personally never found a
:36:39. > :36:41.gladiatorial contests that we have had very helpful. It worked very
:36:42. > :36:46.well in a presidential debate between Marine Le Pen and Emmanuel
:36:47. > :36:50.Macron. But we are not a presidential state. So says Theresa
:36:51. > :36:53.May, me, myself and I in this election. She has made it very
:36:54. > :36:56.presidential between her job and Jeremy Corbyn. As far as I'm
:36:57. > :37:03.concerned we don't have a presidential system and I don't want
:37:04. > :37:05.to see one. I don't want a system where you can't grill the
:37:06. > :37:09.spokesperson fully and where there is no proper debate. I am sure there
:37:10. > :37:16.are better ways of doing it than having a gladiatorial contest. I
:37:17. > :37:23.suppose it all comes down to Lynton Crosby in the end. No doubt Jeremy
:37:24. > :37:27.Corbyn has strategies. Why is he not taking part? For the first time ever
:37:28. > :37:30.we have a very independent minded person. Who doesn't want to take
:37:31. > :37:37.part in debates either. He does want to do it provided it is fair,
:37:38. > :37:39.meaning the top two people. Why not do the opposition debate? 72% of
:37:40. > :37:44.people are apparently going to choose between the two main parties
:37:45. > :37:48.so why not have those up there? It is all about brinkmanship. If Jeremy
:37:49. > :37:54.said yes, then everybody would say where is Mrs May? The important
:37:55. > :37:59.thing is that we get to hear within our own context of Parliament and so
:38:00. > :38:03.on that we get to hear them. While we haven't got PMQs we haven't got
:38:04. > :38:07.that weekly debate. What do you think of that idea? The key thing is
:38:08. > :38:10.what is of interest to the audience and are we going to see the party
:38:11. > :38:18.leaders, particularly those leading big blocks of numbers of MPs,
:38:19. > :38:21.interacting with real people on live television? The Question Time
:38:22. > :38:27.debates? Yes. And we have changed that format. It will be longer, 45
:38:28. > :38:31.minutes each other than half an hour each. And we have included the SNP
:38:32. > :38:35.in the format which we didn't do in 2015, to reflect the fact that when
:38:36. > :38:38.Parliament dissolved they were a bigger presence than previously.
:38:39. > :38:40.Both those things are in the interests of the audience, I think.
:38:41. > :38:52.Thank you for coming in. After last week's local
:38:53. > :38:53.election results, which saw the Conservatives make
:38:54. > :38:56.gains across the country and Labour slip back,
:38:57. > :38:58.the line from both party leaders was that there's still everything
:38:59. > :39:01.to play for when it comes So could there be a big switch
:39:02. > :39:09.in the way people vote Welcome to Harlow, is celebrating 70
:39:10. > :39:11.years since it was designated as a new town. In a County Council
:39:12. > :39:13.elections last week, the Conservatives made big gains and
:39:14. > :39:18.there were small losses for Labour and the Liberal Democrats and losses
:39:19. > :39:22.for Ukip. But at the general election, will people vote the same
:39:23. > :39:25.way or change their minds? Can I ask how you voted in the council
:39:26. > :39:30.elections last week? No. Are you going to vote for the same party in
:39:31. > :39:35.the general election? Yes. But your political allegiance will remain
:39:36. > :39:41.secret? Exactly. You have a strong sense of civic duty. Did you vote
:39:42. > :39:46.last week? No. You don't then! Who did you vote for? Conservative. Will
:39:47. > :39:52.you be voting Conservative on the 8th of June? Yes. Pop your ball in
:39:53. > :39:57.the box. Would you vote on different issues for the Council compared to a
:39:58. > :40:01.general election? The roads, the schools, the car parks, the town
:40:02. > :40:05.centre policies, policies on housing. You are a different
:40:06. > :40:14.headspace when it comes to the local elections? Yes. OK. Did you vote in
:40:15. > :40:20.the council elections last week? No. OK. Did anyone vote in the council
:40:21. > :40:24.elections? Anyone vote in elections last week? I do believe that
:40:25. > :40:28.everybody should vote. The turnout here were 35% last week. Does that
:40:29. > :40:34.make you ashamed to be an ethics person? It does. A fidget spinner?
:40:35. > :40:39.You just do that? Is that what all the fuss is about with these things?
:40:40. > :40:42.I have a tip-off that there is a comic convention happening down
:40:43. > :40:48.there and the opportunity is too good to miss. Did you vote at the
:40:49. > :40:53.local election? I wasn't here. Were you on a planet somewhere? Somewhere
:40:54. > :40:58.in the galaxy. People should vote to ban Christmas. Will you be voting
:40:59. > :41:05.Green? You have got to go with your hair colour. I think the council
:41:06. > :41:10.elections will be a precursor to the general election. A bellwether. A
:41:11. > :41:15.trailer for the main film? Unless there is an earthquake of change. I
:41:16. > :41:23.think Brexited go through without any opposition. Jeremy Corbyn and
:41:24. > :41:32.his team don't come over very well. But you will still vote Labour? Yes.
:41:33. > :41:35.Even though it might not make any difference? Yes, because you have
:41:36. > :41:40.got to keep voting and hope it turns around. We have a couple of switches
:41:41. > :41:41.but the most people will vote the same way as they did last Thursday.
:41:42. > :41:48.Thanks, Harlow. And we've been joined by Joe Twyman,
:41:49. > :41:58.from the opinion pollster YouGov. Will most people vote the same,
:41:59. > :42:02.local to general? There is the voter choice and also the decision to vote
:42:03. > :42:08.or not, which other two interesting questions that we have got to answer
:42:09. > :42:11.as pollsters. And we have seen previously that there is a lot of
:42:12. > :42:14.churn between local and general election, especially when they are
:42:15. > :42:19.so close to each other. Going back to 1983, Labour enjoyed being just
:42:20. > :42:22.three points behind the Conservatives are the local
:42:23. > :42:27.elections and one month later, they were 16 points behind in the 1983
:42:28. > :42:35.election. Not a happy historical precedent if you are choosing 1983?
:42:36. > :42:38.Or any opposition. And in 1987 the Conservatives gained 5% in the
:42:39. > :42:41.months between the locals and the general. On that basis and looking
:42:42. > :42:45.at the recent performance by Labour, you will desperately be hoping that
:42:46. > :42:50.people switch between local and general. I think the big question is
:42:51. > :42:54.the Ukip vote. Mrs May has responded by wrapping herself in the Ukip
:42:55. > :42:58.flag, each one of the commentators said on the day that the BBC did the
:42:59. > :43:03.coverage of that last Friday. It does explain her announcement today
:43:04. > :43:10.on immigration. What about Labour's performance? Trying to keep Ukip
:43:11. > :43:14.voters on board. Labour has got a very good promises around the ?10
:43:15. > :43:21.minimum wage which could transform a lot of people's lives. Switching
:43:22. > :43:26.between Ukip and Labour? Not a wholesale switch from Ukip to the
:43:27. > :43:29.Conservatives? Two thirds of the people who voted Ukip in the last
:43:30. > :43:31.election are moving to the Conservatives which could explain
:43:32. > :43:35.why they are higher in the polls than previously but we have still
:43:36. > :43:39.got an entire campaign left and things can change. Back in 2010, and
:43:40. > :43:43.you are talking about television debates previously, the Lib Dems
:43:44. > :43:48.jumped ten points in a week as a result of Nick Clegg mania, from the
:43:49. > :43:52.first televised debate, and it fell back a bit. But substantial change
:43:53. > :43:56.can happen. There is the potential for it to do so. I don't think it is
:43:57. > :44:00.the most likely outcome in this campaign that campaigns can have an
:44:01. > :44:04.effect and they have the potential to make that difference. Does it
:44:05. > :44:06.follow that in local election campaigns people don't necessarily
:44:07. > :44:10.vote on local issues in the way that Lib Dems would have us believe? They
:44:11. > :44:15.vote for the party and the leader that they like. It depends on
:44:16. > :44:18.timing. In some cases people vote on local issues but they also decide
:44:19. > :44:22.not to vote in local elections when they decide to vote at the general
:44:23. > :44:28.election, which can make things very different. How important for you is
:44:29. > :44:33.the issue of vote share? If the seats were translated or the local
:44:34. > :44:38.election gains were translated into seats it would not be the big
:44:39. > :44:41.majority for the Tories. I am very wary about extrapolating between
:44:42. > :44:46.local and national election results. You often get localised voting on
:44:47. > :44:50.local issues. The turnout is low. It might provide an indication of the
:44:51. > :44:54.way that people are thinking, but in my view I would be very careful
:44:55. > :44:58.about saying just because it has gone well or did well at a local
:44:59. > :45:02.election, you're going to do well at a national election. The other thing
:45:03. > :45:08.is the long campaign and other things to be discussed. I feel
:45:09. > :45:14.buoyed up by what happened last week and any Conservative is going to.
:45:15. > :45:16.But I certainly don't translate that into some mathematical calculation
:45:17. > :45:20.about what will happen in the general election. And I am sure it
:45:21. > :45:23.will not be a mathematical calculation that you can make. In
:45:24. > :45:30.terms of the policies you are talking about, you think the more
:45:31. > :45:34.policies, the more popular Labour will become. What about seeing
:45:35. > :45:38.Jeremy Corbyn? Jeremy is an independent minded person with a lot
:45:39. > :45:42.of energy and he is running an energetic campaign. And he is an
:45:43. > :45:47.asset as far as you are concerned? He has a lot of very good values and
:45:48. > :45:50.people like the fact that as a committed person he will not walk
:45:51. > :45:56.away in the way that David Cameron and George Osborne did. They walked
:45:57. > :46:00.away after two years and they broke the pact with the electorate. Even
:46:01. > :46:04.though it hasn't gone that well in terms of his personal support? We
:46:05. > :46:10.still have four reached ago and we do have a lot of people. The
:46:11. > :46:16.Conservatives have got a lot of money and we have a lot of people
:46:17. > :46:19.knocking on doors. We have got a lot of people. I am in your constituency
:46:20. > :46:25.and you haven't knocked on my door at my grandma is as well. Plenty of
:46:26. > :46:29.doors do knock on! I might have been busy at work. But we have certainly
:46:30. > :46:31.knocked on lots of doors in my constituency. Thank you for coming
:46:32. > :46:34.in. Let's get a round-up of all today's
:46:35. > :46:45.other election news now. Welcome to Election Corner. We are
:46:46. > :46:49.in a sandwich this week. Last ago had the local elections, next week
:46:50. > :46:52.we'll have the manifesto is, we are stuck in the middle. But don't
:46:53. > :46:58.worry, plenty of tasty morsels, plenty of filling. Tim Farron
:46:59. > :47:00.is getting Farron stuck into this election race.
:47:01. > :47:02.The fell-running Lib Dem leader showed he doesn't
:47:03. > :47:04.mind an uphill struggle at this fun run in Kendal.
:47:05. > :47:12.Then he got some orange stuff thrown at him.
:47:13. > :47:17.Oh, there goes Iain Duncan Smith doing Eminem.
:47:18. > :47:20.He opens his mouth but the words don't come out.
:47:21. > :47:22.He's choking now, everybody's joking now and the clock's run out.
:47:23. > :47:26.I suppose that's what this election is all about.
:47:27. > :47:28.Meanwhile Labour's Peter Kyle got the feline he ought
:47:29. > :47:31.to help out on the campaign trail and held a ladder while someone else
:47:32. > :47:34.Labour's Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell
:47:35. > :47:37.says he doesn't think the capitalist system should be brought down
:47:38. > :47:49.I believe there's a lot to learn from reading Das Kapital, of course
:47:50. > :47:52.there is, and that's not been recommended only by me but by many
:47:53. > :47:53.others, mainstream economists as well.
:47:54. > :47:57.No, they weren't at a swanky London nightclub but a press conference
:47:58. > :48:03.Zero net immigration over the next five-year period.
:48:04. > :48:06.And the things you can organise at a brewery.
:48:07. > :48:08.Nicola Sturgeon out in Perth poured her
:48:09. > :48:11.obligatory campaign pint and doesn't like things to go to waste.
:48:12. > :48:29.All the party leaders are out this afternoon. Election Corner will be
:48:30. > :48:30.here for the entire campaign. If you think we're missing something tweet
:48:31. > :48:37.us. Thank you, Ellie. Let's discuss Ukip's immigration
:48:38. > :48:39.policy in more detail now. We've been joined by the party's
:48:40. > :48:46.immigration spokesman, John Bickley. Welcome to The Daily Politics.
:48:47. > :48:50.Immigration statistics are notoriously hard to collect. How
:48:51. > :48:54.much would it cost you and Ukip to institute this policy and get
:48:55. > :48:57.precise data on who is leaving and who is arriving? That would be a
:48:58. > :49:01.role for the migration control commission. I find it interesting
:49:02. > :49:05.that this morning we've heard from Theresa May yet again, she's going
:49:06. > :49:11.to promise to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. And what are you
:49:12. > :49:18.promising? I am reminded of fool me once, shame on you, fool me two,
:49:19. > :49:22.three, four times... What about your policy. You can't control the number
:49:23. > :49:27.of people leaving, their skills and experience and what they take with
:49:28. > :49:32.them. How would one in, one out of work? The key is that it's a rolling
:49:33. > :49:35.average over five years so you give the migration control commission
:49:36. > :49:40.flexibility on a rolling five-year period to take into account and
:49:41. > :49:44.variants is. Rather than dictating absolute numbers by particular
:49:45. > :49:49.sectors you are taking a broad average look at this over a
:49:50. > :49:56.five-year period. What we are trying to say is that we need to get
:49:57. > :50:00.immigration under control. What does that mean? For the last few years
:50:01. > :50:05.the Tories have failed completely... What does it mean for you in terms
:50:06. > :50:11.of numbers? We've got 600,000 people coming in or thereabouts, the size
:50:12. > :50:19.of the city of Newcastle coming here. We want net zero immigration.
:50:20. > :50:24.Net zero immigration. Basically 300,000 people leave, you want
:50:25. > :50:28.300,000 people coming in. So on average over five years, it's flat.
:50:29. > :50:34.Frank Field has been saying this for years... How would you do it?
:50:35. > :50:37.Because rather than pretending the politicians will do all this
:50:38. > :50:41.themselves because they never deliver that is why we'd have a
:50:42. > :50:45.migration control commission. How many people would be involved in
:50:46. > :50:49.this? It would be a massive expansion of government power to
:50:50. > :50:57.monitor every individual person leaving and what skills they may be
:50:58. > :51:01.taking... That's a challenge for the political class, they've failed
:51:02. > :51:07.miserably. Is it achievable, and trying to work at the mechanics. It
:51:08. > :51:14.is because other countries achieve it, Australia 41. Have they got a
:51:15. > :51:19.zero? I don't know if they wish to grow their population, they are a
:51:20. > :51:28.sovereign nation. We are saying it is politically correct to deliver
:51:29. > :51:32.zero net migration and of the government can't do this they should
:51:33. > :51:37.be of power. I am trying to challenge you on whether it is
:51:38. > :51:40.achievable, not just desirable, is it achievable? If two migrants and
:51:41. > :51:45.similar skills would your commission which was one over another based on
:51:46. > :51:49.their country of origin? Bush if they had similar skills. No, we are
:51:50. > :51:53.not interested in where people come from. That's up to the migration
:51:54. > :51:58.control commission to come up with a plan for allowing us to balance
:51:59. > :52:00.migration. That seems a reasonable way of moving this debate forward
:52:01. > :52:04.and delivering what the British people want. They've had enough of
:52:05. > :52:06.being lied to by the Tory party and the Labour Party would keep
:52:07. > :52:11.promising them they will control immigration but they don't. That you
:52:12. > :52:15.want to ban all and skilled migration to the UK for five years.
:52:16. > :52:21.What impact will that have on certain sectors of the economy?
:52:22. > :52:24.Maybe they will start employing more British people. Remember there are
:52:25. > :52:28.already hundreds of thousands of low skilled immigrants in this country.
:52:29. > :52:32.We are not short of low skilled immigrants. And employment is not
:52:33. > :52:38.particularly high. If you look at the EU National is they account for
:52:39. > :52:48.31% of the workers and food manufacturing, 21% in hotels and 15%
:52:49. > :52:51.of those in warehouses. With the best will in the world if on day one
:52:52. > :52:53.you sent them home and stop them coming in even over a five-year
:52:54. > :52:57.period what would happen to those economies? We haven't said anything
:52:58. > :53:01.about reducing the number of people already in this country. We would
:53:02. > :53:06.want to see a situation where everyone here from the EU who has
:53:07. > :53:10.been here, up to the day Article 50 was triggered, to be able to stay
:53:11. > :53:15.here. That needs to be done on the basis that the British people who
:53:16. > :53:20.reside in the EU in 2017 can stay there. We want to say to the EU lets
:53:21. > :53:25.have a sensible deal where all the people from the EU are here, over 3
:53:26. > :53:29.million, we want them to stay here and continue to contribute to the
:53:30. > :53:32.British economy. My question was what impact would it have on the
:53:33. > :53:37.sectors are listed when you think of the percentage of EU National is
:53:38. > :53:44.working there. I don't think it will have any impact. We will is seasonal
:53:45. > :53:48.agricultural leases, expect them to fall over time because we need to
:53:49. > :53:52.get more of Oscar people brush our people into work. Theresa May is
:53:53. > :53:57.talking the talk but not walking the walk, she's promised, with Cameron,
:53:58. > :54:02.to bring down emigration, that is two prime ministers, not some second
:54:03. > :54:07.string civil servant! Can you name me a country in the Western world
:54:08. > :54:11.which aims to have zero net immigration? I'm not interested in
:54:12. > :54:18.any other country. So there isn't one. I'm interested in us doing the
:54:19. > :54:21.right thing for Britain. You think this is intrinsically desirable.
:54:22. > :54:25.That's what I say and the British people want to see migration
:54:26. > :54:29.Broadstone. John Bickley, thank you for coming in. -- they want to see
:54:30. > :54:31.migration brought down. Of course, whenever the country goes
:54:32. > :54:34.to the polls a whole host of smaller parties get their candidates
:54:35. > :54:36.on the ballot paper, and throughout the campaign we'll be
:54:37. > :54:39.taking a closer look Today it's the turn
:54:40. > :54:42.of the Yorkshire Party, who are currently fielding twenty
:54:43. > :54:44.three candidates in the election. The Yorkshire Party
:54:45. > :54:46.was founded in 2014, It has just over 2,000
:54:47. > :54:49.Twitter followers They're calling for
:54:50. > :54:50.a Yorkshire Assembly, with powers similar to those
:54:51. > :54:52.of the Scottish Parliament. It wants to see increased
:54:53. > :54:55.school funding per pupil, a regional energy hub,
:54:56. > :54:58.and it wants Yorkshire to be able They think Yorkshire Day,
:54:59. > :55:05.which is celebrated on August 1st, And they want a Yorkshire team
:55:06. > :55:11.to be able to take part And we've been joined
:55:12. > :55:14.from our Hull studios by the party's leader,
:55:15. > :55:21.Stewart Arnold. Welcome to the programme. You had
:55:22. > :55:26.candidates stand in the local elections last week, how did you do.
:55:27. > :55:31.Not too bad actually, our best results in our Short history, we got
:55:32. > :55:35.up to 33% in Doncaster, narrowly failing to take a seat. The portents
:55:36. > :55:40.are good and we are in a very good position coming into the general
:55:41. > :55:44.election. How many seats are you fielding candidates in in the
:55:45. > :55:49.general election? 23 pencilled in and I'm hoping we get up to 27.
:55:50. > :55:53.Significant because it is double what we did last time in 2015, half
:55:54. > :55:56.the number of seats in Yorkshire and I think that sends a statement of
:55:57. > :56:01.intent as far as the party is concerned. What is your strong
:56:02. > :56:05.message going to be on the campaign? Basically we feel we are losing out
:56:06. > :56:09.on the devolution discussion that's going on. When we first started the
:56:10. > :56:13.discussion was centred around Scotland and Wales and the
:56:14. > :56:17.assemblies and time has moved on. Last Thursday we had elections for
:56:18. > :56:21.Metro mayors in Manchester and other parts of the country. And all this
:56:22. > :56:24.time Yorkshire has been left behind. Not the fault of the people, they
:56:25. > :56:28.just haven't been engaged in the process, it is the fault of local
:56:29. > :56:31.council leaders who can't agree the way forward and I think the general
:56:32. > :56:35.election gives us the opportunity to put this argument front and centre
:56:36. > :56:40.and say, OK, let's have a resolution on this, where are we going with
:56:41. > :56:42.Yorkshire devolution. What is your judgment on the northern powerhouse
:56:43. > :56:56.which George Osborne talked about so much? It was
:56:57. > :56:59.a good idea. I'm not sure exactly what it means but I think George
:57:00. > :57:01.Osborne did recognise that the UK economy is out of kilter. There's
:57:02. > :57:03.fantastic potential in the north, not least in Yorkshire which if we
:57:04. > :57:06.could unleash it would improve the economy overall. It seems bizarre
:57:07. > :57:11.that London and the South East is racing ahead and leaving the rest of
:57:12. > :57:15.the country behind. This political disconnect came through in the
:57:16. > :57:21.Brexit referendum, in Yorkshire with voted for welcoming me to leave. You
:57:22. > :57:28.point to Yorkshire having an economy twice the size of Wales. What is
:57:29. > :57:32.your party's position on Brexit. We allowed people a free vote and as
:57:33. > :57:36.occurred in Yorkshire most people did vote to leave. So what we are
:57:37. > :57:41.arguing for now is a fair Brexit, fair deal for Yorkshire... What does
:57:42. > :57:44.that mean. It means let's have an engagement first of all with the
:57:45. > :57:48.Prime Minister because it took ten months in the general election
:57:49. > :57:51.before she even visited Yorkshire since you became promised, frankly
:57:52. > :58:05.not good enough, treating the people of Yorkshire with disdain. We need
:58:06. > :58:08.to put our forest across just as London, Scotland, Wales and Northern
:58:09. > :58:10.Ireland are in terms of what we want for the farming sector, fishing and
:58:11. > :58:13.so on. Do you expect a breakthrough in this election for your party?
:58:14. > :58:16.Yes, we do, because I think the results from Doncaster showed
:58:17. > :58:20.there's great potential us. With Ukip going off a cliff and Labour
:58:21. > :58:28.following them closely think we are in a position to begin to sweep up
:58:29. > :58:30.some seeds. Stewart Arnold, thank you very much. -- sweep up some
:58:31. > :58:32.seats. There's just time before we go
:58:33. > :58:35.to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was, who did
:58:36. > :58:37.Tim Farron have a poster Che Guevara, Jacques
:58:38. > :58:41.Delors, Arthur Scargill So, Dominic, Catherine,
:58:42. > :58:51.what's the correct answer? Margaret Thatcher. The Eurosceptic!
:58:52. > :58:57.We're surprised. Not entirely, I can see that in youth he had wisdom
:58:58. > :59:01.although he's lost it since. Is extraordinary with his
:59:02. > :59:05.Euroscepticism. Who did you have on your wall, I was going to ask but
:59:06. > :59:13.there's no time. Thank to both of you for being our guests today. I'll
:59:14. > :59:15.be back with and you bye. -- I'll be back with
:59:16. > :59:20.When it came to my TV habits, I'd watch anything.