:00:39. > :00:40.Afternoon folks - welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.Labour promises a massive increase in education spending in England
:00:45. > :00:48.and says it will raise corporation tax by over a third
:00:49. > :00:51.The Conservatives say the plans are "nonsensical".
:00:52. > :00:55.The Green Party says it will no longer consider what it calls
:00:56. > :00:57."progressive alliances", accusing Labour and the Lib Dems of
:00:58. > :01:00.failing to consider electoral pacts between broadly left-wing parties.
:01:01. > :01:09.Green Party leader, Caroline Lucas, joins us live.
:01:10. > :01:11.We've brought the Moodbox to Chester to ask people
:01:12. > :01:17.whether they think Ukip have had their moment in the sun.
:01:18. > :01:19.And, as part of our series on smaller parties
:01:20. > :01:27.today, we speak to the leader of the Women's Equality Party.
:01:28. > :01:38.And with us for the duration, the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall.
:01:39. > :01:42.Now in the last hour, the Crown Prosecution Service has
:01:43. > :01:47.announced that no criminal charges are to be brought over
:01:48. > :01:50.14 police inquiries into Conservative Party election
:01:51. > :01:52.spending in the 2015 general election.
:01:53. > :01:55.One file from Kent Police remains under consideration,
:01:56. > :01:57.although we won't hear today whether charges will be brought
:01:58. > :02:06.Let's talk to our home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds.
:02:07. > :02:12.What has happened here? Well, this has been running for a long time. It
:02:13. > :02:17.followed an investigation by Channel 4 News into the way in which parties
:02:18. > :02:23.were finding their candidates' campaigns in various constituencies.
:02:24. > :02:26.The latest is that the police, in 14 different parts of England, have
:02:27. > :02:30.been looking into, have passed on files to the Crown Prosecution
:02:31. > :02:35.Service to see whether they would be charges, and today, the CPS has said
:02:36. > :02:40.that in all of those 14 cases, there will be no charges. Why? Well, it is
:02:41. > :02:45.down to the law which effectively says this, it says, it is an offence
:02:46. > :02:50.to knowingly make a false tax oration, and in order to bring
:02:51. > :02:54.charge, it must be proved that a suspect did know that they were
:02:55. > :02:59.acting dishonestly in declaring election expenses. And clearly, the
:03:00. > :03:02.CPS has decided that that is not the case in all of these situations
:03:03. > :03:08.around the country. Largely, we're talking about the Conservatives'
:03:09. > :03:12.battle buses, travelling around the country, putting activists into
:03:13. > :03:17.various places. They always said it was national spending and it did not
:03:18. > :03:20.reach their national spending limits, and the CPS is clearly
:03:21. > :03:26.saying, there is nothing criminal here. That will come as a relief to
:03:27. > :03:30.the Conservatives, because this was hanging over them, but there is
:03:31. > :03:34.still one outstanding case in Kent - do we know when we might hear about
:03:35. > :03:39.that? I think shortly, Andrew, within the next week or so. But the
:03:40. > :03:44.cut-off date for candidates to take part in the general election is
:03:45. > :03:49.tomorrow. So, if you want to pull out, or if you want to come into the
:03:50. > :03:54.race, you have to say by tomorrow, and we are not going to hear about
:03:55. > :03:58.this Kent case until next week. We understand it is all about the South
:03:59. > :04:01.Thanet seat under way in which party resources were put into that seat,
:04:02. > :04:07.whether or not it was national or local spending. But it does mean
:04:08. > :04:10.that that will have to be left hanging, unless the constructs want
:04:11. > :04:16.to choose another candidate in the next 24 hours, otherwise, they will
:04:17. > :04:21.have to continue with the team they currently have in South Thanet. But
:04:22. > :04:26.the Conservatives are very pleased with today's announcement, they say
:04:27. > :04:29.that the CPS has confirmed what we knew all along, that the
:04:30. > :04:33.Conservative candidates did nothing wrong, these were politically
:04:34. > :04:36.motivated and unfounded complaints, this is from Patrick McLoughlin, the
:04:37. > :04:41.chair of the party, which have wasted police time. He goes on to
:04:42. > :04:44.say, a number of malicious claims continue to be spread on the
:04:45. > :04:52.internet. He says, people should be aware that making false claims about
:04:53. > :04:55.candidates is an electoral offence. So, a hard-hitting response from the
:04:56. > :04:58.Conservatives. Thanks for bringing us up to date.
:04:59. > :05:01.Now, it's another busy day in the election campaign.
:05:02. > :05:06.For the latest, I'm joined from College Green by Katy Balls
:05:07. > :05:10.from The Spectator, and Stephen Bush from The New Statesman.
:05:11. > :05:21.Let's kick off with Theresa May, hosting the Nato general secretary,
:05:22. > :05:26.Jens Stoltenberg. Oh, no, we have Jeremy Corbyn instead. Let's remove
:05:27. > :05:33.that for a moment... Anyway, they were together at No 10, it was not
:05:34. > :05:36.just a courtesy call, Jens Stoltenberg would like some
:05:37. > :05:40.commitment from Theresa May in terms of more troops in Afghanistan. What
:05:41. > :05:47.would that do to this election campaign? Well, one would assume it
:05:48. > :05:53.would ring the issue of our involvement in Afghanistan in to the
:05:54. > :05:57.picture. Perhaps it would help Labour, but also it would be
:05:58. > :06:01.possibly hurting them on security issues. So it is hard to see who
:06:02. > :06:07.would benefit from this as an election issue. In terms of Labour,
:06:08. > :06:13.Katy Balls, what do you think about this call from Nato? He said he
:06:14. > :06:18.would be happy to agree to a request like that, and that kind of makes
:06:19. > :06:23.sense, it fits with his own non-interventionist approach. And I
:06:24. > :06:25.think a lot of the public might agree with it. There is a very
:06:26. > :06:32.lukewarm reaction to sending more troops to Afghanistan. But because
:06:33. > :06:35.Theresa May wants Britain to be outward-looking post-Brexit, I also
:06:36. > :06:41.think she will want to keep these Nato commitments. What about our
:06:42. > :06:47.actual commitments already, in terms of spending? We are supposedly
:06:48. > :06:51.living up to the Nato commitment of spending 2%, but actually, in the
:06:52. > :06:57.papers this morning, there is a letter saying that Theresa May's
:06:58. > :07:01.boasts of spending that are actually an accounting deception, what do you
:07:02. > :07:06.make of that? We know that there is a lot of creative accountancy about
:07:07. > :07:10.how you get to that defence targets. 2% we expect that to be a subplot of
:07:11. > :07:17.the election. But again, Labour does not want this election to be about
:07:18. > :07:22.national security. And Katy Balls, will it come an issue, do you think,
:07:23. > :07:27.or will this just pass by? I think we saw last week kind of David Davis
:07:28. > :07:35.and Philip Hammond stood in front of a poster of a bomb, and said, Jeremy
:07:36. > :07:37.Corbyn would not give bombs to the army, they're quite happy on
:07:38. > :07:42.defence. And I think Labour are unhappy on defence. The Shadow
:07:43. > :07:46.Defence Secretary has suggested about giving more money to the army,
:07:47. > :07:50.but I think a lot of people still would not be happy voting for Jeremy
:07:51. > :07:56.Corbyn, given about his comments about whether or not he would kill
:07:57. > :08:00.the leader of Isis. What about Europe, could cook yesterday, Jeremy
:08:01. > :08:04.Corbyn seemed to that the issue of Brexit was saddled, and then would
:08:05. > :08:08.not quite answer the question about whether if he was prone minister, he
:08:09. > :08:15.would actually take Britain out of the EU? What did you make of that?
:08:16. > :08:20.It seemed very strange, partly because Jeremy Corbyn is a lifelong
:08:21. > :08:24.Eurosceptic, other than about -- other than about the six months of
:08:25. > :08:28.the referendum. The fact that he stumbled on that is a bit of a
:08:29. > :08:32.mystery. And Katy Balls, do you think it was just a stumble or was
:08:33. > :08:37.there more to it than that? I think it's just typical of Labour at the
:08:38. > :08:44.moment, their whole Brexit strategy seems to be to say one thing, the
:08:45. > :08:49.issue of Brexit is settled, which will help with the Labour Brexit
:08:50. > :08:52.voters, and then he goes on to refuse to say whether Britain is
:08:53. > :08:57.actually going to leave the EU. Last night, of course, we had a
:08:58. > :09:03.hard-hitting interview with Theresa May and her husband on the one show.
:09:04. > :09:08.Let's take a quick look... How hard is it to win a negotiation with your
:09:09. > :09:14.wife? That's a good question. There is give and take in every marriage.
:09:15. > :09:21.I get to decide when I take the bins out, not IF I take the bins out!
:09:22. > :09:28.There is boys' jobs and girls' jobs. I do the traditional boy jobs, by
:09:29. > :09:32.and large. If you are the kind of man who expects his tea to be on the
:09:33. > :09:36.table six o'clock every evening, you could be disappointed. Do you make
:09:37. > :09:43.the team? From time to time. Theresa is a very good cook indeed,
:09:44. > :09:47.actually. Yes, at home, we lived in the flat at Downing Street but we
:09:48. > :09:51.like to get home at weekends, and that's where most of my cookery
:09:52. > :10:02.books are. How do you think that interview went in terms of Tory HQ?
:10:03. > :10:05.It was quite awkward to watch. But at the same time, I think the
:10:06. > :10:12.Conservatives working to show Theresa May's more personal side,
:10:13. > :10:15.softer side. Which it probably did achieve, even though there were
:10:16. > :10:19.those awkward moments. But do you think overall it was positive for
:10:20. > :10:25.them, Stephen Bush? Yeah, it would have irritated people like me, with
:10:26. > :10:33.the boys jobs, girls' jobs thing, but it showed her to be a warm, Home
:10:34. > :10:37.Counties woman. Paul Nuttall, would you like to appear on a show like
:10:38. > :10:42.that? Not particularly, it is not really my cup of tea, to be honest
:10:43. > :10:46.with you. I think there is a fine balance between your public life and
:10:47. > :10:49.private life. It's horses for courses, really. I think there is a
:10:50. > :10:55.danger sometimes with spouses that they can become too involved, and I
:10:56. > :11:00.think Cherie Blair was a perfect example of that, I could argue maybe
:11:01. > :11:05.Michelle Obama as well. So it is horses for courses, it is not for
:11:06. > :11:10.me. But the public quite like to see the personal side would it worry
:11:11. > :11:15.you, would you feel uncomfortable having to do that more personal
:11:16. > :11:19.stuff? Not particularly. I have done a number of interviews on a more
:11:20. > :11:24.personal level, I have to say that I've always been very keen to keep
:11:25. > :11:29.my private life private. Again, it's horses for courses. If Theresa May
:11:30. > :11:33.wants to go on shows like that and bring her husband out, that's
:11:34. > :11:41.entirely up to her. So how are we going to do the boys' jobs and
:11:42. > :11:46.girls' jobs on this programme? As usual, I'll do the girls' jobs!
:11:47. > :11:51.Crime writer James Patterson has joined forces with which political
:11:52. > :11:54.figure to write a thriller set in the White House?
:11:55. > :12:00.At the end of the show, Paul Nuttall will give
:12:01. > :12:05.Labour says it will hike up business taxes to fund a major increase
:12:06. > :12:09.in education spending in England, if it wins the election.
:12:10. > :12:12.The party's plans for what it calls a National Education Service
:12:13. > :12:14.would see class sizes for five- to-seven year-olds kept below 30,
:12:15. > :12:17.while almost ?5 billion extra would be pumped into the English
:12:18. > :12:24.Labour says it will all be funded, primarily, by increasing
:12:25. > :12:35.It will cost up to ?6 billion when you send money to Scotland and Wales
:12:36. > :12:37.for education as well. Labour have today said that they'll
:12:38. > :12:44.create what they call Under the plans, a future Labour
:12:45. > :12:48.government would give schools a real-terms funding increase,
:12:49. > :12:50.reduce class sizes to under 30 for five- to seven-year-olds,
:12:51. > :12:52.and give free school meals And Labour would also restore
:12:53. > :12:59.the educational maintenance allowance for college students,
:13:00. > :13:03.scrap fees on courses for adult learners and put more money
:13:04. > :13:04.into maintenance grants Let's take a look at Jeremy Corbyn
:13:05. > :13:15.explaining the thinking behind This was Labour's Shadow Education
:13:16. > :13:22.Secretary speaking earlier today. We will secure the best education
:13:23. > :13:25.possible for every single child And that starts with proper
:13:26. > :13:28.funding of our schools. We will reverse the ?3 billion
:13:29. > :13:31.of cuts that our schools And protect per pupil funding over
:13:32. > :13:38.the course of the next Parliament. And, unlike the Tories,
:13:39. > :13:40.when we say real terms, To fund their proposals,
:13:41. > :13:46.Labour say they would give schools in England an extra
:13:47. > :13:49.?4.8 billion a year. The money would be paid
:13:50. > :13:53.for by raising corporation tax. The Conservatives say Labour have
:13:54. > :14:03.already spent the extra revenue from corporation tax and they've
:14:04. > :14:05.described Labour's Well, this is what the Institute
:14:06. > :14:11.for Fiscal Studies had to say about Labour's corporation
:14:12. > :14:16.tax plans earlier. The Labour Party proposals would
:14:17. > :14:23.certainly raise more than enough from corporation tax
:14:24. > :14:25.to pay for these increases But, of course, an increase
:14:26. > :14:32.in corporation tax It will reduce investment
:14:33. > :14:35.by companies in the UK and, in the long run,
:14:36. > :14:37.it won't raise as much as it might in the short run,
:14:38. > :14:40.as companies change their behaviour, reduce investment or,
:14:41. > :14:42.indeed, move abroad. Joining me now from Birmingham
:14:43. > :14:44.is the Shadow Business Minister, Jack Dromey, and in the studio,
:14:45. > :14:55.I'm joined by the former Welcome to you both. Jack Dromey,
:14:56. > :15:01.first, when you look at the figures, it looks like by 2021, you're going
:15:02. > :15:08.to spend over the UK an extra 6 billion for education, and you say
:15:09. > :15:13.it can all be paid for by raising corporation tax by a third. But
:15:14. > :15:19.haven't you already spent some of that corporation tax on other
:15:20. > :15:24.things? We are determined to establish a national education
:15:25. > :15:25.service. You have to find those commitments. We will fund them from
:15:26. > :15:38.corporation tax. That will fund a very ambitious
:15:39. > :15:42.pledge to the young people of this country, to their parents and to the
:15:43. > :15:47.teachers of this country. In terms of commitments, we are now into a
:15:48. > :15:53.general election period. Therefore, we are determined, Andrew, that
:15:54. > :15:58.every single pledge we make, we cost so that the British people can be
:15:59. > :16:02.confident that we will not only make the pledge, but unlike the Tories
:16:03. > :16:06.who always break their promise, we'll deliver on the pledge. Let's
:16:07. > :16:10.look at this. I thought you'd already promised to use Corporation
:16:11. > :16:15.Tax to give pay rises above inflation to NHS staff? We are
:16:16. > :16:20.making commitments now in relation to a general election. We've, hang
:16:21. > :16:25.on, we've been looking at a whole range of commitments that might be
:16:26. > :16:28.made. You will hear in relation to the NHS, the announcement we've
:16:29. > :16:33.already made. If you look at the totality of what can be raised on
:16:34. > :16:36.that increase of Corporation Tax over the next four years, it's
:16:37. > :16:45.actually ?50 billion, in excess of that. These are your own figures.
:16:46. > :16:50.Not what the... Let me clarify, is it your plan now not to pay for the
:16:51. > :16:55.increase in NHS staff pay by Corporation Tax? We will honour our
:16:56. > :16:59.commitment to health service staff. But will you financial it from the
:17:00. > :17:03.Corporation Tax revenues? The commitment made by John Ashworth is
:17:04. > :17:09.a commitment that we will honour. The interesting thing about the IFS.
:17:10. > :17:14.How will be finance it? The interesting thing is today the IFS
:17:15. > :17:18.say our figures are sound. They raised a question mark over the
:17:19. > :17:23.economic impact. Our strong view is this, we've a chronic problem in
:17:24. > :17:27.this country of skills and productivity. We have to sort that.
:17:28. > :17:33.I understand that's the case. I'm trying to work out how you're going
:17:34. > :17:40.to pay for it. On this programme, your head of campaign, you're in an
:17:41. > :17:43.election campaign, you're head of the election campaign Andrew Gwyn
:17:44. > :17:47.said categorically, you'd use Corporation Tax to fund a pay rise
:17:48. > :17:53.for the NHS is that still your policy or not? We stand by that
:17:54. > :17:57.commitment. And the financing of it? Yes, the totality of what can be
:17:58. > :18:02.raised, in terms of what we're proposing on Corporation Tax, is in
:18:03. > :18:08.excess of ?50 billion. You've accumulated that. How much by 2021,
:18:09. > :18:13.how much extra will Corporation Tax be bringing in under your scheme?
:18:14. > :18:18.Under our scheme, it will raise in excess of ?50 billion. No, you've
:18:19. > :18:23.added up all the years. I'm asking you by 2021, how much extra that
:18:24. > :18:29.year, will Corporation Tax bring in? In excess of ?50 billion, Andrew.
:18:30. > :18:34.That's over four years Mr Dromey. It won't bring in ?50 billion in one
:18:35. > :18:39.year. Total Corporation Tax receipts at the moment are ?50 billion. You
:18:40. > :18:44.cannot bring in ?50 billion extra in one year. Can I suggest this, don't
:18:45. > :18:48.interview yourself. Allow me to answer the question. Can I suggest
:18:49. > :18:54.you answer the question. We're clear. The IFS said our figures are
:18:55. > :19:00.sound. They haven't said that, actually. We're very clear we can
:19:01. > :19:04.raise in excess of ?50 billion. That will enable us to fund our education
:19:05. > :19:08.pledge and other pledges as well. We stand by that. You've pledged or
:19:09. > :19:13.Jeremy Corbyn's pledged to scrap university tuition fees. Will that
:19:14. > :19:19.be paid for by a rise in corn ration tax? Wait for the manifesto. Today,
:19:20. > :19:23.we're focusing on our education commitments in terms of that
:19:24. > :19:27.national education service, schools and post-school, particularly for
:19:28. > :19:32.the colleges. At the next stages, we'll move on to the universities
:19:33. > :19:37.and tuition fees. So, the tuition fees are not included in the extra
:19:38. > :19:43.six billion you're already committed to? No, that will be in the
:19:44. > :19:48.manifesto. Let me go on to this business of Corporation Tax being a
:19:49. > :19:53.magic money tree. What assumption in your calculations have you made if
:19:54. > :19:56.Corporation Tax is increased by a third, that companies will change
:19:57. > :20:02.their behaviour and you will not get as much as you project. What
:20:03. > :20:07.assumption have you made about that? Andrew, we need badly to invest in
:20:08. > :20:11.the next generation. I'm not arguing about that. Crucial to the success
:20:12. > :20:15.of our country, including the economic success of our country. I'm
:20:16. > :20:20.not arguing about that. I stress again, we have to resolve this
:20:21. > :20:26.problem of productivity and skills. My question to you Mr Dromey, what
:20:27. > :20:29.assumption as you project a rise in Corporation Tax as you increase the
:20:30. > :20:34.rates, that companies will change their behaviour and you won't get
:20:35. > :20:38.the money that you're hoping for? Companies, of course, will take into
:20:39. > :20:43.account impacts upon them in terms of taxation. Andrew, we will still
:20:44. > :20:48.be the lowest Corporation Tax in the G7 countries. You won't be actually.
:20:49. > :20:53.You won't be Mr Dromey. Let's just look at this. You've raised if. You
:20:54. > :20:59.are the business spokesman for your party. Donald Trump is pledging to
:21:00. > :21:04.cut Corporation Tax to 15%. Mr Macron in France is pledging to cut
:21:05. > :21:09.Corporation Tax too. Just across the Irish Sea is a place called Dublin
:21:10. > :21:16.where Corporation Tax is 12%. So, if you go to 26%, yes, you may well
:21:17. > :21:19.raise more money but as Shadow Business Secretary, you must surely
:21:20. > :21:26.have some calculations that you will lose some because people will simply
:21:27. > :21:31.move? It's a statement of truth. That 26% right now is still the
:21:32. > :21:35.lowest in the G7. If I was you, I would not rely upon pledges mid by
:21:36. > :21:38.Donald Trump. We're relying on your pledges to fund our education
:21:39. > :21:44.system. You can count upon our pledges. It comes back to the simple
:21:45. > :21:49.reality in economic terms, this country will not succeed and its
:21:50. > :21:52.young people will not succeed unless we have a national education service
:21:53. > :21:59.that backs them, their parents and their teachers. Let me clarify this
:22:00. > :22:02.one more time. You're projecting increased revenues on a raises of
:22:03. > :22:08.Corporation Tax over four years by one third. And your assumptions and
:22:09. > :22:10.projections assume companies it will not in any way change their
:22:11. > :22:15.behaviour and you will get that money. How is that in any way
:22:16. > :22:20.credible? Of course companies will take account of taxation in terms of
:22:21. > :22:23.decisions they make. But the companies I deal with here in
:22:24. > :22:30.Birmingham and all over the country, all say the same thing. We can't get
:22:31. > :22:34.Labour, we can't get skilled labour. We need investment in skills for the
:22:35. > :22:38.future. You've made that point. It's not what I'm asking you. And what
:22:39. > :22:43.will be of major benefit, not just to the young people who will get on
:22:44. > :22:46.in life, but what will be of major benefit to the public, private
:22:47. > :22:50.sector and economy in the this country is if we have many more
:22:51. > :22:54.people equipped with the education they deserve and skills. It's
:22:55. > :22:58.absolutely central to the economic success of Britain. I understand
:22:59. > :23:02.that, my argument with you has been how to pay for it. I think we're
:23:03. > :23:05.done now. I understand your press office didn't want to take part in
:23:06. > :23:09.the discussion with Mr Gove. If you want to stay and listen to what he
:23:10. > :23:13.has to say and perhaps come back for ap coent, you're welcome to do so or
:23:14. > :23:19.you're welcome to go. What would you like to do? I'm happy to stay.
:23:20. > :23:24.Perhaps he can answer this question. I ask the questions. You ask and
:23:25. > :23:27.I'll come back at the end. Whatever the mechanisms for funding an
:23:28. > :23:32.increase in education, particularly for schools, is it not clear our
:23:33. > :23:35.schools do need more funding? I think our schools need reform and
:23:36. > :23:39.our schools need healthy funding. It is the case that the Conservatives
:23:40. > :23:43.have safeguarded the amount overall that goes into schools in real terms
:23:44. > :23:48.and in cash terms, the amount per pupil has been safeguarded. The
:23:49. > :23:53.National Audit Office which we can agree is a pretty reliable monitor
:23:54. > :23:58.of these things, an independent. In real terms, schools will have to
:23:59. > :24:03.find cuts of ?3 billion. 8%, by 2020. Labour is talking about
:24:04. > :24:07.raising money for education. We can argue about how they'll fund it.
:24:08. > :24:14.They're talking about putting more in. You, in reality, in real terms,
:24:15. > :24:18.you are are cutting. It is the case the amount per pupil in real terms
:24:19. > :24:23.is protected. In cash term. But in real terms, you are right, we are
:24:24. > :24:30.asking schools to deal with the consequences of tighter budgets.
:24:31. > :24:33.Let's be fair, before 2015, we protected per pupil funding in real
:24:34. > :24:37.terms. At a time when other parts of the public sector were having to
:24:38. > :24:41.take the strain, schools received a better deal. I sympathise with the
:24:42. > :24:46.position that heads and teachers have. But it's critical to
:24:47. > :24:49.appreciate that it's not simply funding that improves education.
:24:50. > :24:54.It's reform as well. I understand that. But you can't do it without
:24:55. > :25:00.money. The mantra has been reform and money. Your manifesto last time,
:25:01. > :25:06.page 2034 said as the number of pupils increase, so will be amount
:25:07. > :25:09.of money in our schools on current pupil numbers forecast, there will
:25:10. > :25:14.be real terms increases. You've broken that promise. There are not
:25:15. > :25:19.real term increases per pupil. There are real term increases overall.
:25:20. > :25:25.You're right. Not per pupil? No, that was the case between 2010 and
:25:26. > :25:31.2015. It is the case umming up now That there will not be real term
:25:32. > :25:36.increases per pupil. That's correct. At a time, you heard Jack dram
:25:37. > :25:40.saying there, how important skilling the population is. You were part of
:25:41. > :25:44.the Brexit campaign. We need to be better educated, better skilled than
:25:45. > :25:48.ever. Why would any Government contemplate cutting in real terms
:25:49. > :25:53.per pupil funding? ? There are two things. The first is the overall
:25:54. > :25:58.increase in school population has been driven by a baby boom and
:25:59. > :26:05.migration under Labour that was not controlled. By leaving the EU we can
:26:06. > :26:09.better control immigration. You've not done so, so far. These kids are
:26:10. > :26:13.already in the school's. It doesn't matter if you control it down the
:26:14. > :26:17.road. These kids are goings through the primary system now and you're
:26:18. > :26:24.cutting the per head funding in real terms? You will be aware 1.8 million
:26:25. > :26:28.children are in good and outstanding schools compared to 2010. Education
:26:29. > :26:32.in England has been improving while education in Scotland and Wales has
:26:33. > :26:37.been moving backwards. You will also be aware, the free schools we've
:26:38. > :26:42.created have created good and outstanding where they did not exist
:26:43. > :26:45.before. We do need to ensure funding is reformed and the Education
:26:46. > :26:49.Secretary is seeking to reform funding in order to make it fairer.
:26:50. > :26:53.If you concentrate simply on cash and don't look at the broader
:26:54. > :26:58.context of what's happening in our schools, you fall into the trap of
:26:59. > :27:02.believing more money automatically is the answer to our educational
:27:03. > :27:07.challenges. I'm not falling into that trap. Well, Labour have. Not
:27:08. > :27:12.only that, they've also as you eloquently pointed out in the course
:27:13. > :27:15.of that interview, Labour will kill the goose that lays the Godden eggs.
:27:16. > :27:20.Labour's approach to Corporation Tax is not going to raise a sustainable
:27:21. > :27:25.sum of money to support our schools. It will change the behaviour of
:27:26. > :27:29.businesses, it will lead to a flight of capital and lead to the economy
:27:30. > :27:35.crashing because of the nonsense Calais preach towards economics. Let
:27:36. > :27:40.me ask you this. It plays to the idealogical approach. As schools in
:27:41. > :27:45.England are being asked to find ?3 billion of cuts, Philip Hammond is
:27:46. > :27:49.able to find another ?320 million for grammar schools. Where's the
:27:50. > :27:53.sense in that? We're giving people choice. But you're cutting the money
:27:54. > :27:58.that goes to the kind of schools, you're asking for cuts to the kind
:27:59. > :28:01.of schools that most children go to? We're actually ensuring every child,
:28:02. > :28:05.whether in a grammar comprehensive or any other type of school will
:28:06. > :28:10.have the money following them, protected in cash terms. I think
:28:11. > :28:16.it's... You Andrew, have written and argued in the past for the merits of
:28:17. > :28:23.selective education. New selective provision will only be set up where
:28:24. > :28:27.there is a popular demand for it. I'm not sure I have, even back to
:28:28. > :28:34.the dim and distant past. Are you in favour of grammar schools? Yes, I
:28:35. > :28:38.am. More grammar schools? Yes. Why didn't you increase grammar schools
:28:39. > :28:44.when you were add Kaags secretary? I did many things. That wasn't one of
:28:45. > :28:49.them. One of the things I'd have loved to have done. Whether I was
:28:50. > :28:53.for and against them. I am in favour of increased selection. We increased
:28:54. > :28:56.selection at the age of 16 but not able to increase it anywhere else,
:28:57. > :28:59.the Liberal Democrats were not in favour. My understand is you didn't
:29:00. > :29:06.push for it either. That's another issue. Paul Nuttall's been patient.
:29:07. > :29:12.I'll go back for a comment from Jack Dromey then too. I don't think
:29:13. > :29:17.raising Corporation Tax is a good idea. I think it is a bad idea. I
:29:18. > :29:22.think Michael's right, it will result in a flight of capital.
:29:23. > :29:27.Ireland has Corporation Tax rate of 12.5%. Donald Trump, I think, will
:29:28. > :29:30.bring it down to 15%. You'll see business leave these shores. That
:29:31. > :29:35.will mean less tax revenues, less work for people. It is a bad idea.
:29:36. > :29:39.However, I will say we really need to reform our education system. Ukip
:29:40. > :29:45.was the first party to come out in favour of grammar schools in 2010.
:29:46. > :29:50.Jack Dromey, what's your reaction to what you've heard? I live in the
:29:51. > :29:55.real world. In my constituency, the schools face a ?10 million cut. I
:29:56. > :30:01.led a delegation of excellent head teachers to meet with the Schools
:30:02. > :30:04.Minister. They said, we'll have to sack teachers, teaching assistants,
:30:05. > :30:08.cut back on our curriculum. Close the school at Friday lunch time.
:30:09. > :30:14.They asked the Government, what do you expect us to do? You're making
:30:15. > :30:18.life impossible for us. It is absolutely right, that what we've
:30:19. > :30:23.done is listen to schools, to listen to young people and to listen to
:30:24. > :30:27.parents and put them first. There is not a single idea that Labour has on
:30:28. > :30:32.education which will actually lead to an improvement in the classroom.
:30:33. > :30:35.Labour have opposed every one of the steps we've taken to improve
:30:36. > :30:40.testing, the curriculum and give parents more choice. So you would
:30:41. > :30:44.sack... This talk of a national educational service is a strong an
:30:45. > :30:48.horse of getting rid of academies, free schools and the rigorous
:30:49. > :30:54.changing we've made. I'm going to have to... We've overrun. I'll have
:30:55. > :30:57.to bring this to an end. Jack Dromey, thank you for waiting.
:30:58. > :31:00.Michael Gove, thank you for being here.
:31:01. > :31:05.Now, three Labour party activists in Surrey have been expelled
:31:06. > :31:08.from the party after they decided to back a candidate who is standing
:31:09. > :31:10.for the National Health Action party against the Health Secretary,
:31:11. > :31:14.Well, we can speak now to Steve Williams, who was one
:31:15. > :31:22.of those members kicked out of the party.
:31:23. > :31:28.You have been expelled from the Labour Party after nearly 50 years
:31:29. > :31:31.as a supporter, but you must have known that that was what would
:31:32. > :31:36.happen if you backed a rival candidate? I think it's very
:31:37. > :31:41.disappointing, Jo, to be honest with you. As you say, I have been a
:31:42. > :31:44.member of the Labour Party for 46 years, and I have been expelled from
:31:45. > :31:48.the Labour Party for actually doing my best to try to secure the outcome
:31:49. > :31:55.of defeating a Conservative MP, a member of Parliament for South West
:31:56. > :31:58.Surrey, who as Secretary of State for Health has done untold damage to
:31:59. > :32:04.the National Health Service. But you understand the parties rules,
:32:05. > :32:08.because you are a long-time member, and they're very clear, that if you
:32:09. > :32:12.publicly support a candidate running against the official Labour Party
:32:13. > :32:16.candidate, then you will be expelled? In fact it happened to Ken
:32:17. > :32:22.Livingstone many years ago when he ran for mayor? Well, what we are
:32:23. > :32:25.seeking to do, actually, is to get Labour candidate to stand down in
:32:26. > :32:29.the constituency. It is the overwhelming view of Labour Party
:32:30. > :32:34.members in South West Surrey that the candidate that has been selected
:32:35. > :32:40.for the South West Surrey constituency should be stood down.
:32:41. > :32:45.And your parties branch agreed to that, there was agreement locally
:32:46. > :32:49.for the Labour Party candidate to stand down, and was it the NEC who
:32:50. > :32:55.actually went over your heads? It was indeed. I have a letter from the
:32:56. > :32:59.head office of the Labour Party saying that I have been in and from
:33:00. > :33:06.the membership register of the Labour Party for actually trying to
:33:07. > :33:11.secure the return of a non-Conservative member of
:33:12. > :33:14.Parliament in South West Surrey. And this is happening all over the
:33:15. > :33:20.country. There are people who are seeing that it is appropriate for
:33:21. > :33:25.Labour Party members and supporters, and for Liberal Democrat members and
:33:26. > :33:28.supporters, and for Green members and supporters, in different parts
:33:29. > :33:33.of the country, to stand down their candidates, to stand aside, for the
:33:34. > :33:40.candidate who is best placed to defeat the Conservatives. There is a
:33:41. > :33:44.regressive alliance of the right, Ukip is supporting Conservative
:33:45. > :33:52.candidates in this election in order to defeat the left. So, why can't
:33:53. > :33:56.the progressive side of politics do the same? You can understand, from
:33:57. > :34:01.the point of view of the party leadership, and it's ruling
:34:02. > :34:05.executive, that this is the official opposition and it should be fielding
:34:06. > :34:09.candidates in every seat and should be able to win as many of those
:34:10. > :34:13.seats as possible. If you do what Ukip has done, to some extent, by
:34:14. > :34:18.agreeing to stand down candidates, you admit in the mind of the public
:34:19. > :34:23.that you cannot put up a proper opposition against the ruling party?
:34:24. > :34:27.Labour is the alternative party of government in this country, and I
:34:28. > :34:33.want to see Jeremy Corbyn in number 10 Downing Street, and it is
:34:34. > :34:39.precisely... And there are residents for the Labour Party standing down
:34:40. > :34:42.its candidates. In 1997, in Tatton, there was a deeply unpopular
:34:43. > :34:47.Conservative member of Parliament in Neil Hamilton, who has now moved
:34:48. > :34:50.over to Ukip, deeply unpopular member of Parliament, and the Labour
:34:51. > :34:58.Party and the Liberal Democrats stood down in Tatton in order to
:34:59. > :35:02.enable Martin bell to stand as a unity candidate. And we have got
:35:03. > :35:05.that unique opportunity in South West Surrey now, we've got the
:35:06. > :35:10.opportunity to defeat one of the most unpopular secretaries of State
:35:11. > :35:13.for health that we have had in this country, who has perpetrated a
:35:14. > :35:19.untold damage to the National Health Service. Will you reapply to join
:35:20. > :35:24.the Labour Party? Of course I will, the Labour Party is in my soul, I
:35:25. > :35:25.want to remain a member of the Labour Party. I didn't leave, I was
:35:26. > :35:29.thrown out. Caroline Lucas, joint leader
:35:30. > :35:31.of the Green Party, had been calling but yesterday claimed Labour
:35:32. > :35:38.and the Lib Dems had "betrayed" their voters, and the Green
:35:39. > :35:46.Party would now focus When we last spoke, I think you were
:35:47. > :35:49.at your conference in Bristol and you were quite enthusiastic about a
:35:50. > :35:54.Progressive Alliance. What has gone wrong? What has gone wrong is that
:35:55. > :35:57.the leadership people around Jeremy Corbyn have absolutely put the lid
:35:58. > :36:02.on this happening. I said it is a betrayal, and that is quite strong
:36:03. > :36:05.word, but it feels like, without some kind of co-operation in a
:36:06. > :36:07.handful of marginal seats, we know how the story ends come we know that
:36:08. > :36:21.we wake up on the 9th of June thinking, how on
:36:22. > :36:24.earth have we allowed a massive Tory landslide? So, there is a huge
:36:25. > :36:27.appetite for this with grassroots Tory members, as we have just seen
:36:28. > :36:29.with Steve Williams. What is so sad is that all of this excitement up
:36:30. > :36:32.and down the country, I have been speaking at meetings all across the
:36:33. > :36:35.country, huge amount of enthusiasm for it, but it has been stopped by
:36:36. > :36:37.the party leadership. So, if it is being stopped at a national level,
:36:38. > :36:41.could it still happen at a local level? I think the example of Steve
:36:42. > :36:47.Williams shows that they will not let it happen. People will get
:36:48. > :36:50.expelled. And this is not just about trying to get rid of the Tories,
:36:51. > :36:54.although it is that, but it is also about trying to return people to
:36:55. > :36:57.Parliament who will fight for a fairer electoral system so that we
:36:58. > :37:01.do not have to have all of these debates, so that people can vote for
:37:02. > :37:06.what they believe in. Over a million people voted Green in 2015, with a
:37:07. > :37:12.proportional system, we would have had 24 MPs, that would have been a
:37:13. > :37:16.better representation of views across the country. At the
:37:17. > :37:18.by-election in Richmond, who offered the Green Party a quarter of ?1
:37:19. > :37:24.million to stand aside in favour of the Lib Dems? I do not know the name
:37:25. > :37:27.of the person, I know of the incident but it happened after the
:37:28. > :37:31.decision had already been taken to stand down - and the money was not
:37:32. > :37:35.accepted. Any indication that we were standing down in order for
:37:36. > :37:37.money is categorically wrong, it happened after the decision was
:37:38. > :37:44.taken, and the money was not accepted. But somebody did offer
:37:45. > :37:48.?250,000? I believe so, that is my understanding. As joint leader of
:37:49. > :37:52.the party, somebody offers your party that amount of money and you
:37:53. > :37:56.do not know who it is? I don't remember the name. It went through
:37:57. > :37:59.our ethical checks, it did not pass our ethical checks, the money was
:38:00. > :38:06.not accepted. But your candidate did stand aside? Our candidate had
:38:07. > :38:08.already decided to stand aside, as has that candidate decided again,
:38:09. > :38:13.because what we had was the chance to oppose Zac Goldsmith, who had
:38:14. > :38:19.been running a very racist campaign in London, and we wanted to try to
:38:20. > :38:25.get somebody in there who was going to support electoral reform. Except,
:38:26. > :38:28.you will have seen the website which has a leak in internal document from
:38:29. > :38:33.your Richmond party, saying that party staff from the centre put
:38:34. > :38:38.pressure on local activists and said that there was, quote, an offer of a
:38:39. > :38:43.large donation conditional on the party demonstrating its desire for a
:38:44. > :38:48.Progressive Alliance? Andrew, this has all been completely exposed as
:38:49. > :38:51.being two or three annoyed people in the Kingston party, who did not
:38:52. > :38:56.agree with the decision to stand down. As a result, they put out a
:38:57. > :39:00.document which has been criticised, condemned, we looked into this,
:39:01. > :39:04.there was an independent investigation into it which
:39:05. > :39:07.absolutely said that there was no substance to the claims. So you're
:39:08. > :39:12.saying that the local chairman of the Kingston Green Party, and two
:39:13. > :39:17.other members, have made this up? I think they have either been misled
:39:18. > :39:19.themselves, or they've been misinformed, or somehow false
:39:20. > :39:26.information is in that document. That is what our council
:39:27. > :39:30.independently declared. One of them has already gone off and joined the
:39:31. > :39:35.Labour Party. I think this is quite important. It is not true. If this
:39:36. > :39:41.was true of another party... If it were true, Andrew... You would be
:39:42. > :39:45.the first to condemn that? I certainly would, and that's why I am
:39:46. > :39:49.so robustly challenging, as I have done all along the way, that what
:39:50. > :39:54.was in that report was absolutely wrong. The decision to stand down...
:39:55. > :39:59.I do not remember the name because I have never spoken to the person. You
:40:00. > :40:04.don't yet offered a quarter of a million every day! We turned it
:40:05. > :40:08.down, Andrew. They could welcome back and offer the money in a
:40:09. > :40:12.different context. You will need to know who that person is. The party
:40:13. > :40:16.knows who it is, I am very sorry, Andrew, I don't have that name. I
:40:17. > :40:22.came on to talk about the importance of defeating the Tories over going
:40:23. > :40:25.to be on course for a landslide victory, if we don't get our acts
:40:26. > :40:30.together on the left, and that is what I would love to talk about,
:40:31. > :40:34.because it's incredibly important! This is very important to clear up
:40:35. > :40:43.as well. I have cleared it up for you, Andrew, it is completely false!
:40:44. > :40:46.What if this money has come in in another way? I know perfectly well
:40:47. > :40:52.it hasn't because our chief executive is all over this, of
:40:53. > :40:56.course it hasn't! The order to stand aside apparently came on the
:40:57. > :41:00.instruction of the chief executive! It's completely false. The idea that
:41:01. > :41:03.we are spending minutes of valuable national our time talking about a
:41:04. > :41:08.report by three people who have absolutely categorically been shown
:41:09. > :41:12.not to be telling the truth, either by design or accident, is a real
:41:13. > :41:16.shame, because we should be talking about the fact that... One of them
:41:17. > :41:21.isn't because he has just joined the Labour Party! That could be a
:41:22. > :41:25.Progressive Alliance! It could but what I want to talk about is the
:41:26. > :41:28.fact that Theresa May is on course for a landslide victory, and that is
:41:29. > :41:33.bad for the people Labour says it stands for, it is certainly bad for
:41:34. > :41:37.progressive politics in this country as the kind of politics she will be
:41:38. > :41:41.putting in place is not just a hard Brexit, but also taking money out of
:41:42. > :41:45.our education system, our NHS is on its knees, the environment is
:41:46. > :41:49.nowhere in the debate, and has been so far, so I hope you will have me
:41:50. > :41:53.back tomorrow when we are launching our Environment Minister 5-4. I will
:41:54. > :42:03.have you back if you can remember that name! Andrew... -- launching
:42:04. > :42:07.our environment manifesto. You're not standing against Vince Cable in
:42:08. > :42:12.Twickenham, so there are still areas where you are pulling back a bit to
:42:13. > :42:17.allow a non-Tory to get in, is that right? Absolutely. How many seats
:42:18. > :42:21.will that be in? About ten or a dozen. And that will be largely in
:42:22. > :42:26.favour of Lib Dems? It is essentially when either the Lib Dems
:42:27. > :42:30.or Labour will commit to a fairer electoral system, one which does not
:42:31. > :42:38.give power to the government on less than 24% of the eligible vote. Would
:42:39. > :42:44.you stand aside? We will stand aside where there is a situation where a
:42:45. > :42:53.real Brexiteer, not a fly by night Brexiteer, is... Basically, who have
:42:54. > :42:59.changed their tune over the years. Like Theresa May! Yeah, actually, we
:43:00. > :43:06.are standing against Theresa May, actually. People who have campaigned
:43:07. > :43:08.with us for years, campaigned for Brexit, we will give them a free
:43:09. > :43:12.run. We will leave it there. During the election, our intrepid
:43:13. > :43:15.reporters will be out and about testing the mood of the nation
:43:16. > :43:17.with our ever scientific Moodbox. So, Adam, where has
:43:18. > :43:27.the mood taken you today? Hi, not very in trap pit today,
:43:28. > :43:30.because I am down by the River Dee in the City of Chester, and it's
:43:31. > :43:36.absolutely gorgeous. What a nice day. In the last election in 2015,
:43:37. > :43:45.the Labour candidate won by just a few votes over the Conservatives.
:43:46. > :43:49.And Ukip got 8%. Now, this time round, if Ukip voters perhaps voted
:43:50. > :43:52.for another party, or the Ukip candidate stood aside, that could
:43:53. > :43:56.have a crucial impact on the results. So we have taken the
:43:57. > :44:01.Moodbox out onto the streets of Chester to ask people, should the
:44:02. > :44:02.purple party pack up or fight on, now that Brexit seems to be
:44:03. > :44:06.happening? They're pretty much
:44:07. > :44:10.over now, aren't they? Their job is done, and we probably
:44:11. > :44:13.won't see very much of them now. Is that a Ukip balloon
:44:14. > :44:21.you've got on your pram? is that because you're
:44:22. > :44:27.a mega Ukip supporter? How do you think Ukip
:44:28. > :44:33.will do at this election? When he's 25, do you think the UK
:44:34. > :44:45.Independence Party will still exist? Er, unfortunately, I don't think it
:44:46. > :44:48.will, but I think if you're that passionate about your beliefs,
:44:49. > :44:53.I think they should fight on. The way Labour is at the moment,
:44:54. > :44:55.I think it's very vulnerable, and it's probably looking
:44:56. > :44:58.for a new party that could come How do you think Paul Nuttall,
:44:59. > :45:08.the new leader, is doing? Well, if I said something,
:45:09. > :45:10.it would be defamatory, wouldn't it? Well, there's nothing to
:45:11. > :45:20.say nice about him, is there? Hello, sir, what do
:45:21. > :45:23.you think about Ukip? Look at that, a decanter
:45:24. > :45:36.in the shape of a Stormtrooper. What do you think Ukip should do,
:45:37. > :45:51.pack up or fight on? Ukip are talking about things
:45:52. > :45:54.like banning the burqa and things like that -
:45:55. > :45:56.is that up your street? Covering your face and that,
:45:57. > :46:03.you just can't see people. So, you think they should fight
:46:04. > :46:06.on on issues like that? Yeah, fight on with
:46:07. > :46:08.issues like that. The Brexit vote has happened,
:46:09. > :46:10.we're leaving Europe, so their purpose has gone,
:46:11. > :46:13.and you can see them kind of scrambling around,
:46:14. > :46:17.appealing to far-right policies, and the only reason why
:46:18. > :46:20.they would stick around is so that something nastier doesn't follow,
:46:21. > :46:23.in my opinion. Are you like a professor
:46:24. > :46:25.of politics, or something? There we go, a few people think
:46:26. > :46:50.the party should fight on, but many, Our scientific mood box says it all.
:46:51. > :46:53.You're wasting your time and theirs. It is the short-term narrative.
:46:54. > :46:57.People are believing Theresa May. She's able to talk the talk and act
:46:58. > :47:02.tough on Brexit. When accept comes and she has to start walking the
:47:03. > :47:06.walk, when negotiations start, I think she'll begin to backslide. I'm
:47:07. > :47:09.confident that will happen. When she does, Ukip will become more relevant
:47:10. > :47:13.than ever before. It will be too late then. It's already on the
:47:14. > :47:16.slide. If you want to look at something more scientific, we only
:47:17. > :47:21.have to look at local elections last week. You lost every single council
:47:22. > :47:25.seat you were defending. Quite impressive from one point of view.
:47:26. > :47:29.That's a clear message from the electorate? We knew these elections
:47:30. > :47:34.would be the most tough we'd face. Did you think you'd lose every
:47:35. > :47:38.single council? I expect add real bad result. We knew these would be
:47:39. > :47:43.the most difficult local elections we were going to fight. They were
:47:44. > :47:48.made doubly difficult by the fact the Prime Minister called a general
:47:49. > :47:52.election. She did her impression the day before with the fight against
:47:53. > :47:59.Jean-Claude Juncker. That's politics. It was convenient. It made
:48:00. > :48:02.it very difficult for us. Look, politics is cyclical. It isn't just
:48:03. > :48:06.about the short-term but the long-term. If Ukip stays on the
:48:07. > :48:10.pitch, I believe it will prosper in future. It will be difficult to stay
:48:11. > :48:15.on the pitch. With regards to Brexit, people are believing Theresa
:48:16. > :48:19.May, in your own words. For now. In the meantime, you have to watch
:48:20. > :48:25.what's been happening within your own party? Aaron banks, your major
:48:26. > :48:33.donor says you've crashed the car. Douglas Carswell, your only MP until
:48:34. > :48:37.he threw in the towel. Did you ever think you'd hear Aaron Banks and
:48:38. > :48:41.Douglas Carswell agree on anything? No, you may have a point there.
:48:42. > :48:48.Seriously, this is all short-term thinking. What we need to do...
:48:49. > :48:52.Aaron Banks says you crashed the car, Douglas Carswell is gone. That
:48:53. > :48:57.doesn't matter. Politics will come back on to our turf. Ukip has to
:48:58. > :49:01.hold its nerve. Stay on the pitch and the future will be very bright,
:49:02. > :49:05.I'm sure. You lost all those council seats. These were local elections.
:49:06. > :49:09.That's because they don't see you as a party beyond Brexit. If it
:49:10. > :49:13.continues people brief Theresa May on the issue of coming out of the
:49:14. > :49:16.EU, you don't have anything to offer. Yes, you've put forward
:49:17. > :49:20.policies. But people aren't interested in you for those or not
:49:21. > :49:24.in any large numbers? Firstly, when she begins the backslide, I think
:49:25. > :49:29.she'll backslide on fisheries. There may be some deal on freedom of
:49:30. > :49:33.movement. I think we may end up paying this divorce bill. People
:49:34. > :49:38.will feel betrayed. Where will these people go? Not lemme or Green or
:49:39. > :49:44.Labour. They'll come back to Ukip. What can Ukip do? In what sense? In
:49:45. > :49:50.terms of changing her direction on Brexit. If you haven't any local
:49:51. > :49:53.council I wills. We have. Or enough local councillors or MPs, if you
:49:54. > :49:57.don't get any in the general election how will you do it? How did
:49:58. > :50:03.we put David Cameron under pressure to give us the referendum in the
:50:04. > :50:06.first place. Ukip goes up in the poles, stays strong, elect otherly
:50:07. > :50:12.viable. I believe that will be the case in years to come. There isn't a
:50:13. > :50:16.broader offer from Ukip on Brexit? If you look, when you see our
:50:17. > :50:20.manifesto, it will be radical, forward thinking. We'll lead the
:50:21. > :50:25.debate. I think our manifesto in many ways will be a decade ahead of
:50:26. > :50:30.its time. I guarantee the policies we put forward now will no doubt
:50:31. > :50:34.about the policies of the mainstream political parties or Government
:50:35. > :50:38.policy in ten years' time. One of your councillors in Essex quit your
:50:39. > :50:42.party saying it was a spent force. He was defecting a Jeremy Corbyn's
:50:43. > :50:48.Labour Party. People are going in all ebb directions from Ukip. That's
:50:49. > :50:52.the first I've heard. Jack Parsons, elected to award in Clacton. You
:50:53. > :50:57.need to keep up. It is a strange move, isn't it, I suppose. Then
:50:58. > :51:01.again, we had a Conservative councillor defect to us yesterday.
:51:02. > :51:03.Ukip has to hold its nerve. This is, look... This will be a difficult
:51:04. > :51:09.election. There's no doubt about that. You're not going to win any
:51:10. > :51:15.seats? We may well win a couple. We're targeting sincebly. Focusing
:51:16. > :51:18.our resources in terms of manpower, financial resources on a small
:51:19. > :51:22.number of seats. You think two at most? Look, do you know, we could
:51:23. > :51:26.get over the line in a number of seats this time round. Maybe our
:51:27. > :51:29.vote share won't be as high as last but maybe we'll get over the line.
:51:30. > :51:36.What I have to do is keep this party on the pitch. You just said, though,
:51:37. > :51:41.that you are waiting for Theresa May to backslide. She won't keep to her
:51:42. > :51:44.commitments in terms of the sort of Brexit you'd like to see. Why are
:51:45. > :51:49.you telling large parts of the country to vote Tory? Well, we're
:51:50. > :51:55.also telling people in certain seats to go out and vote Labour. Why are
:51:56. > :51:58.you telling them to vote for a Tory Party you believe won't police
:51:59. > :52:02.officer deliver? These are people who are true and real precious
:52:03. > :52:06.tears. Theresa May never was. She wanted us to remain in the European
:52:07. > :52:11.Union. You're asking your supporters to vote for her? There are specific
:52:12. > :52:16.seats with specific sitting MPs where we'll stand aside to ensure we
:52:17. > :52:19.get the Brexit we want. It is quite a moral thing to do, really. It is
:52:20. > :52:24.about putting your country above your party. According to Professor
:52:25. > :52:30.Stephen Fisher at Oxford Euan very it is, the scale of Ukip's collapse
:52:31. > :52:34.will be an important factor in the scale of Theresa May's victory. Do
:52:35. > :52:38.you accept that? I think our vote share will go down. There's no doubt
:52:39. > :52:42.about that. We're contesting this election on a sticky wicket. Because
:52:43. > :52:47.the Prime Minister's being believed at this present moment in time. If
:52:48. > :52:51.there's a move between us and the Conservatives, you've already seen
:52:52. > :52:55.that in the polls, it will play an important factor. We have to target
:52:56. > :52:59.sensibly on a certain number of seats and try to get over the line.
:53:00. > :53:02.Do you think you'll be the last leader of Ukip? No. Are you
:53:03. > :53:04.finished? Yeah. Thank you. Now, not every politician can
:53:05. > :53:07.command primetime on The One Show, or even a slot
:53:08. > :53:09.on the Daily Politics. So, what have they been up to back
:53:10. > :53:12.on the election trail? Here's Emma Vardy with
:53:13. > :53:15.our campaign round-up. Tim Farron boarded
:53:16. > :53:18.a resucue hovercraft as he launched the Liberal Democrats
:53:19. > :53:22.campaign in Burnham-On-Sea. He was taken for a ride
:53:23. > :53:25.in the Lib Dems former heartlands of the south-west where the party's
:53:26. > :53:27.hoping to resurface. Today, the Liberal Democrats
:53:28. > :53:31.are pledging to spend an extra Angela Rayner, are we talking
:53:32. > :53:36.about 50 children, 5,000, Angela Rayner spoke to LBC
:53:37. > :53:42.about Labour's promise ensuring no But when asked how many children
:53:43. > :53:53.that would help, it appeared the Shadow Education Minister hadn't
:53:54. > :53:58.done her homework on the figures. Go on then, if you've
:53:59. > :54:01.got it, give it me. It's a substantial
:54:02. > :54:03.number, go for it! Mysterious pair of legs
:54:04. > :54:08.without a body, perhaps? Seems Labour's Kate Hoey, or one of
:54:09. > :54:12.her team, attempted to Photoshop her Liberal Democrat rival George Turner
:54:13. > :54:16.out of the picture only to make one of those digital altering
:54:17. > :54:20.schoolboy errors. And, look who's campaigning
:54:21. > :54:23.in the New Forest. Desmond Swain took Maggie
:54:24. > :54:28.for a ride and a furry friend. These steak and haggis pies
:54:29. > :54:39.were the product of an SNP campaign visit in East Dunbartonshire
:54:40. > :54:43.with John Nicholson. After lanching Labour's campaign,
:54:44. > :54:54.Jeremy Corbyn found solidarity in song with a busker
:54:55. > :54:56.on the streets of Ashton-under-Lyne. # Darling, darling, stand by me #
:54:57. > :55:07.Oh, stand by me # Oh stand.... Now, throughout the election
:55:08. > :55:09.campaign, we're taking a look at some of the smaller parties
:55:10. > :55:11.hoping to make gains Today we're looking at the Women's
:55:12. > :55:15.Equality Party, who are currently The Women's Equality Party
:55:16. > :55:19.was founded in 2015. They're calling for equality
:55:20. > :55:26.in politics, business and executive They want to close the gender pay
:55:27. > :55:31.gap, saying that women earn 52% They're calling for equal maternity
:55:32. > :55:37.and paternity leave. And they want to see gender
:55:38. > :55:39.stereotypes challenged We're joined now from Leeds
:55:40. > :55:52.by their leader, Sophie Walker. Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:55:53. > :55:57.Hello. What is it your pushing for that women in politics aren't
:55:58. > :56:02.already tackling? We've women select committees, ministers, women's
:56:03. > :56:04.issues are debated. Why aren't you backing the party that best
:56:05. > :56:11.represents women's rights? Because we've much better policies and much
:56:12. > :56:15.better candidates. Actually our whole system looks at it
:56:16. > :56:18.differently. We're offering voters a better, different option. One that
:56:19. > :56:23.flips politics on its head, if you like. What we do is we design a
:56:24. > :56:29.system that works for the furthest first. If you look at the
:56:30. > :56:34.experiences of the single biggest discriminated against group, women,
:56:35. > :56:38.in all of our diversity, you create a political system and policies that
:56:39. > :56:42.work better for everyone. Do you not think some of the existing politics,
:56:43. > :56:46.we can name the leaders of the various parties at the moment, the
:56:47. > :56:51.Prime Minister, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, Caroline Lucas, they are
:56:52. > :56:55.doing quite well in of themselves. Are they not promoting from within
:56:56. > :56:58.the system the change you want? No, that's why we're here. We're
:56:59. > :57:03.bringing new and fresh voices in our candidates. Many of whom have never
:57:04. > :57:05.done politics before and are providing the interesting and
:57:06. > :57:09.different backgrounds which would be so valuable in Westminster. But,
:57:10. > :57:15.we're also looking really specifically and closely at how we
:57:16. > :57:20.redesign, for example, investment in the economy. We will be prioritising
:57:21. > :57:24.a look at how you invest in the social infrastructure of this
:57:25. > :57:27.country. Time and time again, Chancellor after Chancellor stands
:57:28. > :57:32.up and says here's a great idea to get the economy going. Let's invest
:57:33. > :57:36.in physical infrastructure, housing, roads, bridges. What we're saying,
:57:37. > :57:43.how about if we look at the other side of that? How about we invest in
:57:44. > :57:46.free childcare? That would have a transformative impact on lives of
:57:47. > :57:50.women right across this country. You'd increase your tax base. You
:57:51. > :57:55.would decrees the number of out of work benefits. That would have a
:57:56. > :58:01.knock on effect for everybody in a very positive way. We haven't time
:58:02. > :58:05.to go through costing. In your manifesto you open with the line
:58:06. > :58:09.nowhere in the world do women enjoy full equality. Do you really think
:58:10. > :58:12.that the position of women in western liberal democracies can be
:58:13. > :58:14.compared to the situation experienced by women around the
:58:15. > :58:20.world in the way you've presented it there? First of all, that's not our
:58:21. > :58:24.manifesto, it is our policy document we launched in 2015. Our manifesto
:58:25. > :58:30.is coming shortly. You stand by that? Absolutely. This is a classic
:58:31. > :58:33.case of what aboutry. We're not allowed to talk about women's
:58:34. > :58:38.equality unless we start from somewhere else. Setting aside,
:58:39. > :58:43.frankly, if you want a feminist approach to foreign policy you have
:58:44. > :58:47.to have more fen Nices in Parliament, it is very clear when
:58:48. > :58:55.you look at the statistics here in the UK, women don't have the same
:58:56. > :58:59.options. They outnumber women by Two to one in Parliament. Women suffer
:59:00. > :59:05.disproportionately from austerity mesh Ewings. They paid ?86 out of
:59:06. > :59:08.every ?100 saved. Sophie, we're going to have to finish it there.
:59:09. > :59:09.We've run out of time. There's just time before we go
:59:10. > :59:12.to find out the answer to our quiz. Crime writer James Patterson has
:59:13. > :59:16.joined forces with which political figure to write a thriller set
:59:17. > :59:18.in the White House? The one o'clock news is starting
:59:19. > :59:27.over on BBC One now. Jo and I will be
:59:28. > :59:29.here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories
:59:30. > :59:32.of the day.