:00:37. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.Theresa May is promising a "new deal for workers" and "the greatest
:00:45. > :00:46.extension of rights for employees by any Conservative
:00:47. > :00:53."Tory cuts have exposed the NHS to cyber attack" -
:00:54. > :00:56.so says Jeremy Corbyn, as he pledges an extra 37 billion
:00:57. > :01:03.In a previous life, Jeremy Corbyn's views often differed from mainstream
:01:04. > :01:14.I am, of course, in Newcastle, finding out just how excited
:01:15. > :01:17.people are about manifesto launches this week.
:01:18. > :01:20.If you don't read the manifesto, you don't know
:01:21. > :01:37.And it's quite important to know what's happening to your country.
:01:38. > :01:42.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:43. > :01:44.of the programme today - Kwasi Kwarteng, who's
:01:45. > :01:45.running for re-election for the Conservatives,
:01:46. > :01:50.First today, Theresa May has said that she will bring forward
:01:51. > :01:52.what she calls "the greatest expansion in workers'
:01:53. > :01:54.rights by any Conservative government in history",
:01:55. > :02:00.It's being seen as an attempt to appeal to Labour voters
:02:01. > :02:08.Theresa May says that, after Brexit, she will keep all the workers'
:02:09. > :02:11.rights that are currently guaranteed by EU law.
:02:12. > :02:14.The National Living Wage will go up in line with average earnings over
:02:15. > :02:21.The views of workers will be represented on company boards,
:02:22. > :02:23.although this could just done by a workers' representative,
:02:24. > :02:30.And the Conservatives are also promising new statutory leave rights
:02:31. > :02:34.for people who have suffered a child bereavement,
:02:35. > :02:46.need to care for a family member, or want to undertake training.
:02:47. > :02:49.And the Conservatives will also amend existing legislation to extend
:02:50. > :02:51.protections for workers with mental health conditions.
:02:52. > :02:53.The Labour Party unveiled their own workers' rights
:02:54. > :03:00.Their plans included a ?10 an hour minimum wage by 2020,
:03:01. > :03:03.ending the public sector pay cap, banning zero hours contracts
:03:04. > :03:08.Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrats announced last week that they'll
:03:09. > :03:10.introduce a so-called "father's month" -
:03:11. > :03:18.that's an additional month of paid parental leave for fathers.
:03:19. > :03:21.This was Theresa May talking about those plans this morning.
:03:22. > :03:23.What we're doing today is announcing the biggest ever
:03:24. > :03:25.enhancement of workers' rights by a Conservative government.
:03:26. > :03:27.And, yes, there are various elements to this.
:03:28. > :03:30.But we're, for example, committing that the national
:03:31. > :03:33.Living Wage will continue to rise in line with median earnings.
:03:34. > :03:36.Yes, that people will be able to request time off
:03:37. > :03:38.to care for a relative and we want to support
:03:39. > :03:47.I've been today at a fantastic organisation, TechPixies,
:03:48. > :03:49.helping women who have been taking time out of work looking
:03:50. > :03:52.after children to get the skills to get back into the workplace,
:03:53. > :03:57.This is what we want to see more of in the future.
:03:58. > :03:59.Joining me now is Frances O'Grady, General Secretary of
:04:00. > :04:11.What's your response, do you embrace these proposals? This is promising
:04:12. > :04:17.and I'm pleased all major parties are competing on our turf. Fighting
:04:18. > :04:21.for workers' votes on issues that matter to working people. I think in
:04:22. > :04:27.respect to Theresa May's proposals, we need much more detail. How many
:04:28. > :04:30.of these rights like family leave will be writes for paid leave,
:04:31. > :04:36.otherwise they'll just writes for the well off. I heard comments on
:04:37. > :04:41.the national minimum wage. There is a pre-existing promise that this
:04:42. > :04:48.should be at least 60% of median earnings by 2020. I would like that
:04:49. > :04:54.clarified. And on the deep economy, zero hours and self-employment --
:04:55. > :04:59.the gig economies. I don't want to wait for Matthew Taylor's review. I
:05:00. > :05:02.think we should hear now on what the Conservatives want to do on what is
:05:03. > :05:10.a modern-day scandal. What do you think about the claim that this is
:05:11. > :05:12.an historic offer being made to workers by the Conservative
:05:13. > :05:17.government? I've spent my life campaigning for a better deal for
:05:18. > :05:22.workers. I'm very pleased that all main parties are competing on this
:05:23. > :05:27.ground. It's important, and I think there is a recognition that working
:05:28. > :05:32.people have had a tough deal. The corporate governance system is
:05:33. > :05:36.rigged against not just working people but the long-term success of
:05:37. > :05:41.companies. We need a stronger voice for working people and I would like
:05:42. > :05:47.to hear a positive story about the role of unions as well. Because
:05:48. > :05:51.that's the best way of ensuring people can enforce rights. Otherwise
:05:52. > :05:55.they have to fork out more than ?1000 in an employment tribunal to
:05:56. > :06:00.make real. All these rights might be well and good but in the end if
:06:01. > :06:05.wages will be squeezed further by the rise in inflation and rising
:06:06. > :06:09.prices, will workers be that bothered about some of the rights
:06:10. > :06:18.they may or may not get depending on who is in government? The rights are
:06:19. > :06:20.important to guarantee we have a level playing field. It's only if
:06:21. > :06:22.workers come together collectively that we can enforce those rights and
:06:23. > :06:27.improve people's living standards. This was the big gap in the story
:06:28. > :06:32.today. What are we going to do, not just about the very low paid, but
:06:33. > :06:40.ordinary workers who are, as the Prime Minister said, struggling to
:06:41. > :06:44.get by? And we have still got those pay limits on public service workers
:06:45. > :06:51.meaning in real terms they will be worse off against point labour says
:06:52. > :06:56.it will remove that pay cap on public service workers. What sort of
:06:57. > :07:01.rises would you like to see for those workers? The TUC have said
:07:02. > :07:05.clearly that where there are independent pay review bodies, they
:07:06. > :07:09.should be genuinely independent and their recommendations should be
:07:10. > :07:13.heeded. Otherwise we need real collective bargaining. That's the
:07:14. > :07:16.only way we can ensure that we get a fair distribution of the wealth that
:07:17. > :07:22.is created, whether that's in the private or public sector. What sort
:07:23. > :07:27.of level, though? Because that will in turn have an impact on the
:07:28. > :07:32.economy if there are higher wage rises for certain sectors, whether
:07:33. > :07:36.it's private or public. The great benefit of collective bargaining and
:07:37. > :07:39.independent pay review bodies is that they look at affordability and
:07:40. > :07:41.fairness and you come to an agreement. Thank you very much,
:07:42. > :07:43.Frances O'Grady. We did ask the Conservatives
:07:44. > :07:46.for a front bench spokesman to comment on this major policy
:07:47. > :07:48.announcement, but they said But we do have Conservative MP
:07:49. > :07:52.Kwasi Kwarteng and we're also joined by Ian Lavery,
:07:53. > :08:03.Labour's Elections Coordinator. You have announced this 11 point
:08:04. > :08:09.plan on workers' rights. Is it fully costed? I just want to say, I'm not
:08:10. > :08:12.an MP, I'm a candidate. Thank you. The broad point is that we have a
:08:13. > :08:17.strong and stable government and we want something that has a broader
:08:18. > :08:20.reach. It's an attractive policy that I think will get lots of people
:08:21. > :08:26.who haven't necessarily voted Conservative in the past. Is it
:08:27. > :08:31.properly costed? Of course. It will be costed in terms of having a plan
:08:32. > :08:35.to balance the budget. That's not the same as a fully costed plan. You
:08:36. > :08:40.always say to Labour when they announced their policies, how will
:08:41. > :08:44.they pay for it? Is it through higher income tax, or a reversal
:08:45. > :08:49.incorporation tax, or whatever it is? Using the broad economy is not
:08:50. > :08:54.saying it's fully costed. There is a difference because when Labour have
:08:55. > :08:57.specific spending commitments, saying so much for 10,000 extra
:08:58. > :09:03.policeman, they don't actually know the numbers. So how will you find
:09:04. > :09:07.this new plan for statutory rights? The point about the regulation is we
:09:08. > :09:12.are not saying we are going to know how many people will use and
:09:13. > :09:16.exercise those rights. To put it a different way, have you done a full
:09:17. > :09:20.impact assessment? If I take your point we're not talking about... We
:09:21. > :09:24.are not talking about specific numbers because we don't know how
:09:25. > :09:30.may people will use those rights. So in a sense, it's not fully costed.
:09:31. > :09:34.We have a broad assessment. I'm sure that will be revealed in the
:09:35. > :09:38.manifesto. I'm saying it's not right to suggest it's the same as when
:09:39. > :09:41.Labour make specific spending commitments because we don't know
:09:42. > :09:46.how many people will use those rights. In a way it's exactly the
:09:47. > :09:50.same. If you put the same onus on the opposition or the Labour Party
:09:51. > :09:55.to cost its proposals, people expect the Conservatives to do the same.
:09:56. > :09:59.You say we will keep all the workers' rights we get from the EU
:10:00. > :10:01.after Brexit but there is nothing to stop a future Conservative
:10:02. > :10:06.government watering down those rights in years to come. This is
:10:07. > :10:11.entirely hypothetical. We don't even know who will win the election. No
:10:12. > :10:14.votes have been cast. To talk about a hypothetical Conservative
:10:15. > :10:18.government at some point in the future is getting ahead of
:10:19. > :10:22.ourselves. Is it? Because if you say we will keep all the workers' rights
:10:23. > :10:26.we get from the EU after Brexit, that's quite a bold claim and it
:10:27. > :10:31.would be meaningless if in five years' time those rights disappear.
:10:32. > :10:37.What the government has said is that we are committed to keeping the
:10:38. > :10:42.rights... For the time being. We do not know what will happen in 2022.
:10:43. > :10:48.No party can say what their platform will be then. We have a broad
:10:49. > :10:52.commitment by this Prime Minister to protect workers' rights, and not
:10:53. > :10:55.only protect them, but extend them in a way no other Conservative
:10:56. > :10:58.government has done in my recollection ever. It's an
:10:59. > :11:02.extraordinary and exciting development. I think it will work
:11:03. > :11:06.very well. Do you accept that we can't state and no party can clearly
:11:07. > :11:14.state at this point what they might do? In 2022? No party can do that.
:11:15. > :11:18.Returnship, you wrote a book recently with colleagues in the
:11:19. > :11:26.Conservative Party... Five years ago. That's not that long ago. You
:11:27. > :11:31.said British workers were I'd list. The pamphlet said laziest. You said
:11:32. > :11:37.all this business about social services being cut to the bone will
:11:38. > :11:42.stop you said things about Labour's, the rights of employees had to be
:11:43. > :11:46.reduced. That's your view. This is a long journey. I hope people who are
:11:47. > :11:50.listening and weighing this up know this is a long journey. The purpose
:11:51. > :11:56.of this is due in the end reduce workers' rights. You can't say that.
:11:57. > :12:01.Let's go back to the first point Helena Kennedy mix. You were part of
:12:02. > :12:08.a group of free enterprise MPs. There was a book, a pamphlet
:12:09. > :12:15.written... It was a book. You said British workers were idlers. It was
:12:16. > :12:20.a quotation in the book. It was from someone else. It was a book
:12:21. > :12:25.published in 2012. Let him answer and I will come to you. Anybody can
:12:26. > :12:29.see the world is in a completely different place to where we were
:12:30. > :12:33.five years ago. We have Brexit. We are committed to securing workers'
:12:34. > :12:37.rights. You said yourself that as a consequence of Brexit workers'
:12:38. > :12:41.rights would be in jeopardy. We said no. The Prime Minister has come out
:12:42. > :12:43.with an exciting package and all you can do is criticise. I would think
:12:44. > :12:53.you would welcome these improvements. Ian Lavery. Priti
:12:54. > :12:58.Patel, International Development Secretary, said in the referendum
:12:59. > :13:03.campaign last year that there could be a boost to the economy and
:13:04. > :13:07.600,000 new jobs. She was also contributed to that book. Where is
:13:08. > :13:11.the bonfire of regulation? As far as I can see you are adding to the
:13:12. > :13:14.regulations with this 11 point plan? The Prime Minister's position was
:13:15. > :13:19.always clear. When she was elected she said she wanted a country and
:13:20. > :13:22.economy that worked for everyone. This announcement embeds that and
:13:23. > :13:26.wants to extend and seek to extend rights. I find it extraordinary that
:13:27. > :13:32.opposition parties are arguing against it. We are not arguing
:13:33. > :13:36.against it. I thought you would welcome this development. These
:13:37. > :13:40.ideas have been around and discussed by Labour politicians and Liberal
:13:41. > :13:45.Democrat politicians. This is not some new invention, I can assure
:13:46. > :13:50.you. But for a Conservative may be. That's the point of the quote from
:13:51. > :13:54.the Prime Minister. They are all over Labour's territory. That's the
:13:55. > :14:00.purpose. It's windowdressing to challenge the fact that Labour will
:14:01. > :14:03.in the end do things about creating employment and employees rights.
:14:04. > :14:10.Nobody is arguing against it. It is terrific. In the long term, there is
:14:11. > :14:18.no money costed for it.... It is terrific, though. Absolutely, but
:14:19. > :14:22.it's stolen from others. I have been very patient! You have, now I will
:14:23. > :14:27.turn my attention to you. It has been broadly welcomed by the TUC.
:14:28. > :14:35.Helena Kennedy said it was terrific. What say you? I've got to say, it's
:14:36. > :14:38.amazing hearing Kwasi Kwarteng suggest that the Conservative Party
:14:39. > :14:43.are now the party of the working people. He wrote a book that said
:14:44. > :14:48.British workers were idlers and lazy and would prefer to lie in bed than
:14:49. > :14:52.go out and do a day off work. Do you think the working people of this
:14:53. > :14:56.country will forget that? Do you think the working people are fooled
:14:57. > :14:59.by your rhetoric? It's an outrage to make such remarks about the people
:15:00. > :15:04.in this country. You're not going to get away with that. We have already
:15:05. > :15:11.had a go at Kwasi Kwarteng for what he and others said in the book. What
:15:12. > :15:13.about the proposals today? I think the proposals today, the bombshell
:15:14. > :15:19.for me and the Labour Party is the fact that it has gone largely
:15:20. > :15:30.unreported that the people in this country, working people, are set to
:15:31. > :15:35.lose ?2300 between now and 2020 as a result of bereaved calculation of
:15:36. > :15:41.the national living wage. -- of the recalculation.
:15:42. > :15:49.Are these proposals good or not? The most important one on explaining its
:15:50. > :15:53.full working people, how they pay for food and how they feed their
:15:54. > :15:56.children. What we have in this document is a bombshell on working
:15:57. > :16:03.people which will mean that ?2300 per annum worse off in 2020. Frances
:16:04. > :16:06.O'Grady clearly said, also picking up on the question I put her on the
:16:07. > :16:11.squeeze on wages, but she said used all need workers' rights and you
:16:12. > :16:15.still need the sorts of rights outlined by the Conservatives with
:16:16. > :16:20.the backing of Kwasi Kwarteng. I am saying to you, do you support them?
:16:21. > :16:24.We have a 20 point plan released two weeks ago with regard to workers'
:16:25. > :16:29.rights. If you scrutinise that 20 point plan it's far and away much
:16:30. > :16:35.better in terms of securing people in the workplace. You do have your
:16:36. > :16:39.own plan for workers' rights. The plan is far better than what has
:16:40. > :16:42.been suggested this morning. All right, let's take it bit by bit and
:16:43. > :16:47.see if it is an improvement. Would the Labour government create new
:16:48. > :16:49.statutory leave indictments for carers, people who want training and
:16:50. > :16:55.have suffered a child bereavement? Yes. You would match those. What
:16:56. > :16:59.about people working in the gig economy, working for taxi firms like
:17:00. > :17:08.Uber. The Conservatives say they will intimate revue carried out by
:17:09. > :17:16.the former Tony Blair adviser. We have 460,000 people working in bogus
:17:17. > :17:19.soft employment in the low-wage economy. We have 1 million people
:17:20. > :17:24.and more. What would you do for them? We are going to get rid of
:17:25. > :17:29.zero-hours contracts. We have 1 million people on zero-hours
:17:30. > :17:33.contracts. We have 1.5 million people stuck on the minimum wage.
:17:34. > :17:37.How many of those people on zero-hours contracts want to be on
:17:38. > :17:40.zero-hours contracts? Let me just say this because it's important.
:17:41. > :17:44.People who are in this country who are working 40 hours a week claiming
:17:45. > :17:49.benefits, we have people in this country working 40 hours per week
:17:50. > :17:54.using food banks including nurses on the NHS. I am asking for the
:17:55. > :17:58.solutions and proposals to deal with it. How can the Tory government come
:17:59. > :18:02.forward and suggest in any way they are the party for the working
:18:03. > :18:05.people? You have not answered my question. How many of the people on
:18:06. > :18:10.zero-hours contracts, how many of them want to be on those contracts
:18:11. > :18:15.and what the flexibility rightly or wrongly? The vast majority don't
:18:16. > :18:19.want to be. How can anybody want to be on the zero-hours contract?
:18:20. > :18:22.People do, they want to have that flexibility and I think your
:18:23. > :18:26.approach where you just say this is what is going to happen, it is de
:18:27. > :18:31.Reid Fiest, a top-down approach, some people want to have a
:18:32. > :18:36.flexible... Very few people. A few people and more than you think.
:18:37. > :18:41.Let's talk about the public sector pay cut I put this to Frances
:18:42. > :18:45.O'Grady and she said you would need an independent pay body. How much
:18:46. > :18:48.should it go up and how much would it cost? When you look at it public
:18:49. > :18:57.sector employees have not had a pay rise since 2000... I'm not asking
:18:58. > :19:01.that. I'm just saying, they have not had a pay rise, they don't know what
:19:02. > :19:05.a pay rise is only more so it's important we pay these most
:19:06. > :19:08.important people in society a fair and decent wage. It's not up to me
:19:09. > :19:14.to predict what they should be paid but they certainly need a pay rise.
:19:15. > :19:19.Families in this country... Are you talking about a significant pay
:19:20. > :19:23.rise? They are earning less now than they were in 2010. That cannot be
:19:24. > :19:28.the case and we have got a bridge that gap. There are families in this
:19:29. > :19:35.country now earning less than what they were in 2007, never mind 2010.
:19:36. > :19:39.?1400 a year worse off, that cannot be the case. I will put that to
:19:40. > :19:44.Kwasi Kwarteng, Ian Lavery, we need to let you go, but thank you for
:19:45. > :19:49.being on the programme. Let's go back to the squeeze on wages because
:19:50. > :19:54.that's the story now, because with inflation at 2.3%, wages are being
:19:55. > :19:58.squeezed. It is hard and what he said about public sector pay is
:19:59. > :20:05.true, a difficult period, there is no point denying that. We also have
:20:06. > :20:09.to remember that the deficit in 2010 was ?160 billion, we were borrowing
:20:10. > :20:12.?3 billion a week as a government, as a country, and that was clearly
:20:13. > :20:16.unsustainable and we have to make tough decisions and that was what
:20:17. > :20:23.the 2015 general election was fought on, we make difficult decisions,
:20:24. > :20:26.restrained spending and we had to do do that because otherwise we were
:20:27. > :20:29.heading for a sovereign debt crisis. Now you think it should be lifted?
:20:30. > :20:32.I'm not in a position to say, as Ian didn't answer the question, what the
:20:33. > :20:38.level should be, but there is no doubt it has been a difficult time.
:20:39. > :20:40.We are getting through. There is no point laughing or pretending that we
:20:41. > :20:44.didn't have a terrible deficit which had to be dealt with. The thing was
:20:45. > :20:50.that the opportunity was taken to make ordinary people pay the price.
:20:51. > :20:59.The price was not paid by the super wealthy. The top 1%. You don't look
:21:00. > :21:07.after ordinary people. The top 1% pay more tax. Ordinary people, all
:21:08. > :21:10.of us, we have paid the price. The top 1% pay more tax... We have to
:21:11. > :21:13.move on otherwise we will not get through the rest of the programme.
:21:14. > :21:14.Talking over each other does not help the viewer either.
:21:15. > :21:18.The question for today is, what did Russian President Vladimir
:21:19. > :21:20.Putin do before meeting Chinese President Xi
:21:21. > :21:25.A - Ride through Beijing on a Harley Davidson.
:21:26. > :21:28.B - Explore sunken shipwrecks in the South China Sea.
:21:29. > :21:30.C - Practise judo with a Chinese national champion.
:21:31. > :21:36.Or D - Play Soviet-era songs on a grand piano?
:21:37. > :21:39.The mind boggles, he probably could have done all of them!
:21:40. > :21:41.At the end of the show Helena and Kwasi will give
:21:42. > :21:47.Labour's big announcement on health today comes after a weekend
:21:48. > :21:49.dominated by news of the cyber attack which hit
:21:50. > :21:52.Speaking to the Royal College of Nurses in Liverpool,
:21:53. > :21:54.Jeremy Corbyn pleged to spend an extra ?37 billion
:21:55. > :21:58.on the NHS in England over the next five years if it wins power.
:21:59. > :22:00.The investment would be funded by tax increases
:22:01. > :22:03.Labour says the money would be used to upgrade IT systems
:22:04. > :22:12.Take one million people off waiting lists by guaranteeing
:22:13. > :22:16.Set a new one-hour A target for the most urgent cases
:22:17. > :22:18.and guarantee no more than a four-hour wait
:22:19. > :22:28.Set a new target to tackle bed blocking by patients waiting
:22:29. > :22:31.for care arrangements before they can be released from hospital.
:22:32. > :22:33.And cancer patients to be seen within four weeks.
:22:34. > :22:36.Here's what the Labour leader had to say in Liverpool earlier today.
:22:37. > :22:39.Nothing embodies our campaign theme, for the many not the few, better
:22:40. > :22:48.Universal lifelong health care free at the point of need.
:22:49. > :22:50.However, our health service is actually being
:22:51. > :22:58.Over the past seven years our National Health
:22:59. > :23:01.Service has been driven into crisis after crisis.
:23:02. > :23:05.A departments struggling to cope, waiting lists
:23:06. > :23:11.soaring, and we saw last week Tory cuts exposed patient services to
:23:12. > :23:21.I'm joined now by two humble scribes who don't mind standing
:23:22. > :23:27.Kate McCann from The Daily Telegraph, and the political
:23:28. > :23:38.Matthew d'Ancona, a poll has found the NHS has overtaken Brexit as
:23:39. > :23:42.voters' most important concern. Does Jeremy Corbyn's big NHS announcement
:23:43. > :23:48.today matched by quite big money, is it timely? It is certainly the right
:23:49. > :23:51.terrain for Jeremy Corbyn because Labour always felt comfortable
:23:52. > :23:56.talking about health. Naturally in the wake of a cyber warfare attack
:23:57. > :24:02.it is absolutely a natural subject for him. I think the problem will
:24:03. > :24:06.come because of the money that is necessary to pay for all of this.
:24:07. > :24:11.That takes Labour straight back onto the economic issue, which is one of
:24:12. > :24:16.its weakest. Isn't that going to be a tag line from the Conservatives,
:24:17. > :24:20.Kate McCann, all about unaffordable spending pledges? They have said
:24:21. > :24:24.they will tax people earning ?80,000 a little bit more. Surely it would
:24:25. > :24:28.have to be a lot more to me that build. It would have to be a lot
:24:29. > :24:32.more, billions of pounds more and Jon Ashworth, Labour's Shadow Health
:24:33. > :24:37.Secretary, this morning was saying the 45p rate would hit those earning
:24:38. > :24:42.more than ?85,000 and there is an assumption they would introduce a
:24:43. > :24:45.50p rate of tax for those on ?150,000 or more. The problem is Jon
:24:46. > :24:49.Ashworth said that would raise about ?4.5 billion and they need ?6
:24:50. > :24:53.billion. The list of proposals that he read out from Jeremy Corbyn is
:24:54. > :24:58.likely to cost far more than that. So there is still quite some money
:24:59. > :25:01.to find if that is what Labour will promise the country. Let's talk
:25:02. > :25:05.about the cyber-security issue, which exploded at the weekend. As
:25:06. > :25:10.the government response been big enough, do you think, Matthew
:25:11. > :25:15.d'Ancona? I think they are claiming they have 95% of health outlets back
:25:16. > :25:19.online. I think this is an issue where they will have to be lots of
:25:20. > :25:23.reassurance. This is not only a health issue, it is a security
:25:24. > :25:26.issue, which is why Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, rather than Jeremy
:25:27. > :25:30.Hunt the Health Secretary, has been leading the fight back as it were. I
:25:31. > :25:34.think it's an incredibly important issue and goes far beyond the limits
:25:35. > :25:37.of this campaign. It's got to do with the vulnerability of the
:25:38. > :25:43.biggest health network in the world to a cyber-attack. This was a weapon
:25:44. > :25:48.that had been used by hackers. It wasn't a foreign attack. It was
:25:49. > :25:51.clearly just a group of amateurs using ransomware. You cannot have
:25:52. > :25:57.the NHS is subject to this kind of attack and not be concerned about
:25:58. > :26:02.it. Kate McCann, in your mind is Jeremy Corbyn using this as a stick
:26:03. > :26:07.to beat the Government with in this campaign? Will that actually bring
:26:08. > :26:09.results, do you think, to the Labour campaign? It is funny you say that
:26:10. > :26:14.because I have a couple of friends in the RCM conference in Liverpool
:26:15. > :26:17.this morning and they said they didn't think politicising the issue
:26:18. > :26:20.was a good idea. It works well for Labour because it shows the NHS is
:26:21. > :26:23.vulnerable to these attacks and gives them another way to save the
:26:24. > :26:26.Tories are not spending enough money on the health service but it's
:26:27. > :26:30.probably not that wise because we are likely to see more and more
:26:31. > :26:33.cyber attacks like this and if Labour are in power they will have
:26:34. > :26:38.to inject a huge amount of money to protect the NHS and we know from
:26:39. > :26:40.previous computer programmes and big IT projects, particularly in the
:26:41. > :26:46.NHS, they tend to go massively overbudget. Right, they made those
:26:47. > :26:49.promises today, the Labour Party, which adhere, if not in this
:26:50. > :26:59.programme, late on the BBC from Jeremy Hunt with an interview he did
:27:00. > :27:03.on this issue. This remains controversial but the health
:27:04. > :27:10.Department say they have been updating their protective measures
:27:11. > :27:16.quite aggressively and that very few of the trusts were not warned. The
:27:17. > :27:19.problem is the more decentralisation you have the harder it is to
:27:20. > :27:22.regulate. You are always trying to strike a balance between the
:27:23. > :27:25.benefits of decentralisation in the health service and proper
:27:26. > :27:30.regulation. I think there will be big lessons to be learned from this.
:27:31. > :27:33.In terms of the debates, Kate, we know there will be leaders' debate
:27:34. > :27:38.on Thursday on ITV but they will be no Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn and
:27:39. > :27:41.ITV said they will not empty chair the missing leaders. Is that right
:27:42. > :27:44.strategy? It works well for Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn because if
:27:45. > :27:48.viewers tune in they may not be aware that the Prime Minister and
:27:49. > :27:51.leader of the Labour Party were meant to attend in the first place
:27:52. > :27:54.so it looks better for them if there isn't an empty podium with their
:27:55. > :27:58.names on it. I wonder how many people will tune in on a Thursday
:27:59. > :28:02.night if the two big hitters aren't taking part. It's probably quite
:28:03. > :28:04.disappointing that the two people who realistically, and the one
:28:05. > :28:08.person realistically, who could be running the country will not be
:28:09. > :28:17.there. We will have to see when we look at the ratings the week.
:28:18. > :28:19.Casting ahead to the end of the week, looking at manifestos, Matthew
:28:20. > :28:21.d'Ancona. In this post-truce Iraq which I know you have written
:28:22. > :28:24.something about, what do you think counts when it comes to grabbing
:28:25. > :28:28.voters' attention? I don't think voters look for a shopping list of
:28:29. > :28:31.specific policies or granular detail. But what they do look for is
:28:32. > :28:37.the trajectory that the country is going to pursue under the specific
:28:38. > :28:41.party in question. So the question really will be, to take the
:28:42. > :28:47.Conservative manifesto, is there more to this really interesting new
:28:48. > :28:50.direction the Conservatives under Theresa May are taking, which is to
:28:51. > :28:54.try and capture the working class vote? What we have heard today is a
:28:55. > :28:57.taster and people will look for more in the pages of what we are told
:28:58. > :29:04.will be the proverbial slim document. Thank you to both of you,
:29:05. > :29:06.enjoy the campaign. Let's pick up on the cyber-security. Should the
:29:07. > :29:10.government have taken more notice of those warnings a year ago in terms
:29:11. > :29:14.of protecting NHS trusts, particularly when it came to their
:29:15. > :29:18.IT programmes? I think we can always be wise after the event. We can
:29:19. > :29:23.always look at a problem and say we could have done more, we could have
:29:24. > :29:27.done this or that. They were warned. What I would say is the government
:29:28. > :29:30.has committed something like 1.9 billion to the national cyber
:29:31. > :29:35.Security Centre, something that is new and has not happened before. I
:29:36. > :29:38.think the government did have a sense that cyber-security was going
:29:39. > :29:42.to be a big issue, that people were going to be concerned about it and I
:29:43. > :29:46.think this investment was an excellent development. Could we have
:29:47. > :29:51.done more to prevent this? May be. What I would also say this was an
:29:52. > :29:58.international attack. 150 countries were subject to this attack. It was
:29:59. > :30:01.a global crisis, if you like. I think we are well placed as a
:30:02. > :30:05.country generally to deal with this sort of attack because of the
:30:06. > :30:09.National Cyber Security Centre. Are you one of those who is wise after
:30:10. > :30:13.the event? I was speaking to my friends who sits on a hospital trust
:30:14. > :30:17.and she was saying the reality is there is so little money left at the
:30:18. > :30:23.end of the day that in fact when you are talking about the spend, the
:30:24. > :30:26.capital spend, which has to be on new equipment. Buildings. On
:30:27. > :30:32.buildings, and then on your computer system, she said you are down to the
:30:33. > :30:36.small amounts. Talking about more money to add to the ?37 billion you
:30:37. > :30:40.want to spend over the next few years? I think you really need to
:30:41. > :30:43.have people with real skills in this and we really have to have a proper
:30:44. > :30:48.look at it and it is going to cost money inevitably. It will cost
:30:49. > :30:51.money. Who is going to pay for that, people who are in over ?80,000?
:30:52. > :30:55.There has to be a complete rethink about this economy and it won't
:30:56. > :30:59.happen in the hands of the Conservative Party. This business
:31:00. > :31:04.about low taxation and not looking after your nation's people and the
:31:05. > :31:09.things that make things good for them must be revisited. The Labour
:31:10. > :31:13.Party at the moment, there was a dismissal of the league of the
:31:14. > :31:16.manifesto. I think you are going to find the real challenge to the
:31:17. > :31:23.neoliberal economics that has been the product of Kwasi and you will
:31:24. > :31:26.see more money. Will it be credible? John McDonnell, the Shadow
:31:27. > :31:29.Chancellor, made it clear the increases on those earning ?80,000 a
:31:30. > :31:34.year, which is what he wants to do, would be modest? One of the more
:31:35. > :31:39.radical if you want to pay for these things? You need to tax people more.
:31:40. > :31:43.Labour need to win the trust of people so they think they can manage
:31:44. > :31:47.the economy so they must be cautious but what I'm saying is we have to
:31:48. > :31:52.challenge the business of a low tax economy. There is not that much
:31:53. > :31:54.difference between the two. A transactional tax is something Kwasi
:31:55. > :32:03.would oppose because he was a banker. Robin Hood tax. Let me... It
:32:04. > :32:05.was deemed as causing flight of capital. This is different, isn't
:32:06. > :32:14.it, Kwasi Kwarteng? There are two things that struck me.
:32:15. > :32:19.One is that it's about looking after people and there are two issues were
:32:20. > :32:24.polling well on, very strong on the economy and also on security. This
:32:25. > :32:27.idea Jeremy Corbyn is the man to keep us safe when we know about his
:32:28. > :32:42.links with the IRA and his support for Hamas... On really! And his
:32:43. > :32:46.championing of Venezuela under Hugo Chavez. That was a Conservative
:32:47. > :32:48.attack line. Party mangers are presenting
:32:49. > :32:50.Jeremy Corbyn as an alternative choice in this General Election
:32:51. > :32:55.campaign and in a previous life his views were outside Labour's
:32:56. > :32:57.mainstream thinking. But does this matter
:32:58. > :32:58.now that he's leader? Over the last few days we've
:32:59. > :33:01.put some of Jeremy's previously-expressed views to senior
:33:02. > :33:03.Labour figures. The radical end, the left
:33:04. > :33:08.of the unions and the Labour Party, have got to be realistic that Nato
:33:09. > :33:11.is a major problem and a major difficulty,
:33:12. > :33:14.and we have to campaign against Nato's power,
:33:15. > :33:17.its influence and its global reach, because it is a danger to world
:33:18. > :33:20.peace and a danger I think that's a quote from six
:33:21. > :33:26.years ago, and Jeremy has been on a journey,
:33:27. > :33:32.to coin a phrase. Come the end of the Cold War
:33:33. > :33:37.in 1990, that should have been the time for Nato to shut up shop,
:33:38. > :33:41.give up, go home and go away. What is very clear is that
:33:42. > :33:44.when you are the leader of a political party,
:33:45. > :33:46.you have to go with You have to go along
:33:47. > :33:50.with the collective view. And the collective view
:33:51. > :33:52.is that we support Nato, and we support remaining
:33:53. > :33:54.a member of Nato. And that is what
:33:55. > :34:05.Jeremy is promoting. Fabian Hamilton. So how many more
:34:06. > :34:08.videos of Jeremy Corbyn contradicting party policy can
:34:09. > :34:12.Labour politicians expect to be played to them in this campaign? I
:34:13. > :34:17.think Lynton Crosby has been saving them up. He's running the campaign.
:34:18. > :34:22.I think we will have them drip fed to the public over the next few
:34:23. > :34:28.weeks. All I will say is... It's a bit like, I'm a lawyer and a
:34:29. > :34:31.barrister, and it's a bit like when lawyers have been on one side of a
:34:32. > :34:34.case, and then you become a judge and you have to behave slightly
:34:35. > :34:42.differently. Is that like being the leader of a party where you have to
:34:43. > :34:46.stand on a manifesto where you don't necessarily believe. Has he changed
:34:47. > :34:50.his mind on things like Nato? Theresa May was in favour of
:34:51. > :34:54.remaining. Lots of remain politicians now have to say they are
:34:55. > :34:59.in favour of leaving Europe. People have to listen to others and grow
:35:00. > :35:04.and change. Has he changed his mind on Nato? I hope that he has. It
:35:05. > :35:08.makes absolute sense, particularly looking at Russia today, to be
:35:09. > :35:17.involved with Nato. I hope he has made the shift, but even if he
:35:18. > :35:20.hasn't, everybody else around them has formed a particular view, and
:35:21. > :35:23.he's going with that, just like Theresa May is going with leaving
:35:24. > :35:27.the European Union. Those shifts happen in politics. There are plenty
:35:28. > :35:32.of remain politicians on the Conservative side. I find it
:35:33. > :35:35.extraordinary that earlier in the programme Helena Kennedy quoted a
:35:36. > :35:40.book I wrote with four are the people in 2012 and said I should be
:35:41. > :35:45.held accountable for that. Now we see the clips of Jeremy Corbyn and
:35:46. > :35:51.she now says he has changed, things have changed. Have you changed your
:35:52. > :35:56.view of the British workers? The point has been made that people on
:35:57. > :36:00.both sides can change their mind. Fundamentally, whether he has
:36:01. > :36:05.changed or not is beside the point. From his manifesto we are seeing a
:36:06. > :36:11.return to 1970s, Marxist, hard left agendas that have no evidence people
:36:12. > :36:16.will support them, which will financially bankrupt the country. Is
:36:17. > :36:19.it credible to voters that the collective view of the Labour Party
:36:20. > :36:25.on issues like the renewal of Trident and issues like Nato and
:36:26. > :36:30.other issues where Jeremy Corbyn personally might not agree with him,
:36:31. > :36:34.that they override the leader of the Labour Party, who wants to be the
:36:35. > :36:41.next Prime Minister. The reality is that we are a Democratic party and
:36:42. > :36:46.policies are made around decisions that are... Are they credible to
:36:47. > :36:50.voters? People are going on the doorsteps and saying we need Labour
:36:51. > :36:53.politicians because we need a Labour government to change the business of
:36:54. > :36:56.ruining the lives of most people in this country. That's what the
:36:57. > :37:02.Conservative Party has done with austerity. Let's leave that. That's
:37:03. > :37:07.an emotional response and I take that. But it practically, in the
:37:08. > :37:14.Labour manifesto will make last Wednesday there was a commitment to
:37:15. > :37:18.the Nato benchmark of 2% of GDP on defence spending as well as renewing
:37:19. > :37:22.the Trident nuclear deterrent. But if Jeremy Corbyn can never envisage
:37:23. > :37:27.using Trident, what's the point of paying lip service to something you
:37:28. > :37:32.will never use mustard yellow nobody imagines using Trident. Nobody
:37:33. > :37:37.really imagines using it. -- will never use? Nobody imagines using
:37:38. > :37:43.Trident. He says he will never use it. That won't deter anyone. The
:37:44. > :37:47.point is, he's not in there on his own. He's part of a Democratic party
:37:48. > :37:52.and there will be a cabinet of democratically elected politicians.
:37:53. > :37:55.Only the Prime Minister would make a critical decision on those decisions
:37:56. > :38:01.and defence. And you think if we were facing a bomb heading in our
:38:02. > :38:07.direction from Russia that he wouldn't... I really don't think he
:38:08. > :38:11.would. In terms of it being a Democratic party, isn't that a
:38:12. > :38:15.healthy thing? One of the criticisms about Theresa May's campaign is that
:38:16. > :38:19.it has been presidential in its style. It has been about her, and
:38:20. > :38:26.that might be the right approach. Very much about team May. Not much
:38:27. > :38:31.about how the country is run and Conservative Party of the Democratic
:38:32. > :38:37.party. There are 650 constituencies and individual battles in everyone.
:38:38. > :38:40.I was spending time with a great candidate in Twickenham yesterday.
:38:41. > :38:44.That did not feel presidential, it was a street by street constituency
:38:45. > :38:48.election of the kind we used to. I don't buy the narrative that we have
:38:49. > :38:51.somehow become presidential. The irony is that the people who
:38:52. > :38:57.complain about presidential elections are the very people who
:38:58. > :39:01.complain Theresa May isn't doing gay debate. Those are imports from
:39:02. > :39:07.America, the Leaders' Debate 's. And France as well. It is presidential.
:39:08. > :39:14.You can't complain that it's presidential and then say we have to
:39:15. > :39:17.have leaders debates. We have always had in this country a sense of who
:39:18. > :39:22.the Prime Minister would be after a general election and that's an
:39:23. > :39:26.entirely legitimate field of discussion. Do you think David
:39:27. > :39:32.Cameron was wrong in taking part? I never thought the leaders' debates
:39:33. > :39:35.were fitting for a parliamentary system that we have. Because it is
:39:36. > :39:41.presidential. When you put the leaders on a pedestal and ask those
:39:42. > :39:45.questions it is presidential. Then stop attacking Jeremy Corbyn if it's
:39:46. > :39:49.not about the leader. It is entirely right to question Jeremy Corbyn. You
:39:50. > :39:53.go after him because you don't want to look at the policies. The
:39:54. > :39:56.policies are the thing that really matter. I hope they will matter in
:39:57. > :39:59.this election. So, most of the parties
:40:00. > :40:01.are publishing their "Hurrah", I hear you say.
:40:02. > :40:04."Extra bedtime reading!" And do they have any
:40:05. > :40:08.effect on how people vote? Ellie Price has been
:40:09. > :40:10.in Newcastle with the trusty Welcome to Gateshead and Newcastle,
:40:11. > :40:22.where there is an air of anticipation because this week
:40:23. > :40:25.the parties will publish But the big question -
:40:26. > :40:29.do the manifestos affect Although I was brought up to be
:40:30. > :40:37.a Labour voter my parents Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn?
:40:38. > :40:42.Thornberry? So there's nothing they can
:40:43. > :40:46.say in their manifesto? The Tories are going to concentrate
:40:47. > :40:51.on Brexit and try and get a strong and stable leadership
:40:52. > :40:54.which is the shallow one-liner that Mrs May's decided she's
:40:55. > :40:56.going to come out with. I don't think we're going
:40:57. > :40:59.to get anything more. The manifestos are
:41:00. > :41:02.coming out this week. Will that affect the way you vote?
:41:03. > :41:04.Probably not. Because I couldn't vote for Corbyn
:41:05. > :41:09.if he was the last man on Earth. And whatever he says
:41:10. > :41:10.in his manifesto? Because he wouldn't be
:41:11. > :41:14.able to carry it out. And does it matter what's
:41:15. > :41:16.in the Tory manifesto then? Will you vote for them?
:41:17. > :41:19.Yes. Regardless of what's
:41:20. > :41:20.in the manifesto? I'll probably read it, well,
:41:21. > :41:27.I'll scan through it because I'm not going to read the whole thing,
:41:28. > :41:29.it's about 50-odd The manifestos always
:41:30. > :41:32.lie to you, don't they? Any of you going to bother reading
:41:33. > :41:45.the party manifestos? I've already kind of made my mind up
:41:46. > :41:55.where I'm going to go but I'll definitely read them to give
:41:56. > :41:57.everybody an equal chance. If you don't read the manifesto,
:41:58. > :42:00.you don't know what they're going to do and it's quite important
:42:01. > :42:02.to know what's happening Corbyn's been a good leader,
:42:03. > :42:10.I think he'd be a good We know what's in the manifesto.
:42:11. > :42:19.We know what's in it. Would the manifestos
:42:20. > :42:22.change the way you vote? Probably not because I think I'm
:42:23. > :42:26.just going to vote for the best option for getting rid
:42:27. > :42:27.of the Tories. Yeah, in this case it is
:42:28. > :42:31.going to be tactical. The Labour seats in this
:42:32. > :42:38.part of the world have The results of our mood box
:42:39. > :42:42.today, pretty marginal. But overall it seems that no,
:42:43. > :42:45.the party manifestos won't influence Joining me now is Tim Bale,
:42:46. > :43:05.professor of politics from Perhaps no surprise, the result of
:43:06. > :43:08.that very unscientific mood box. Is there any evidence manifestos can
:43:09. > :43:11.make a difference and persuade people to change their vote? There
:43:12. > :43:16.is not a lot of evidence to suggest people read them in the first place.
:43:17. > :43:19.However, having said that, there is evidence that indirectly they can
:43:20. > :43:24.make a difference. Broadcasters such as yourself and the print media pick
:43:25. > :43:29.up on them and they are the only authoritative statement of what the
:43:30. > :43:31.parties will do after they get into government. That's why we are so
:43:32. > :43:36.desperate to have them. And they are coming shortly this week. You see
:43:37. > :43:40.them broadly as an asset rather than liability? It rather depends on
:43:41. > :43:44.what's in them. One of the problems for Labour and the league, there was
:43:45. > :43:50.an upside in that it got people talking about it. And they will have
:43:51. > :43:53.another go. It also gave GCHQ and anybody who wants to attack the
:43:54. > :43:59.Labour Party to do all the costings and suggest the manifesto will cost
:44:00. > :44:04.this much instead of what Labour say it will cost. In many ways it could
:44:05. > :44:08.be a liability. The parties hold a lot of stalled by them. I know they
:44:09. > :44:11.haven't had as much time in this election but they spend a lot of
:44:12. > :44:15.time and thought on the manifestos and producing big documents. They
:44:16. > :44:20.know most people probably don't read them in depth but they still do
:44:21. > :44:24.them. There are several reasons to do that. The first is to mobilise
:44:25. > :44:27.their own activists. You want your own people going on the doorstep to
:44:28. > :44:31.be enthused about the policies they are selling and they have to have an
:44:32. > :44:37.idea of what the policies are. That's not the only reason. Parties
:44:38. > :44:40.also have to decide where they stand and the manifesto process is a
:44:41. > :44:44.really good way of doing that. It's a good way of sorting out arguments
:44:45. > :44:49.within the party periodically. And if you think you are going to be in
:44:50. > :44:52.government, they are vital because these are the documents civil
:44:53. > :44:58.servants pour over in a few weeks before polling day so when new
:44:59. > :45:02.ministers come into posts or the old ministers, they can present those
:45:03. > :45:06.ministers with a brief and say, this is what you said you will do. This
:45:07. > :45:10.is what we think you can do and let's work on it. And holds you to
:45:11. > :45:15.it. Absolutely, that's the other function, accountability.
:45:16. > :45:21.In terms of other previous elections are there any notable examples of
:45:22. > :45:25.where there was an upturn, if you like, in the polls as a result of
:45:26. > :45:29.the manifesto being published or a downturn, or any particular
:45:30. > :45:33.policies? It is difficult to pinpoint a downturn but what you can
:45:34. > :45:37.say is the danger of manifestos for governments is they can create
:45:38. > :45:41.hostages to fortune. The 1970 Conservative government is a good
:45:42. > :45:44.example, they came from opposition with a whole lot of detailed
:45:45. > :45:48.policies they then tried to implement without much flexibility
:45:49. > :45:51.or change and they got into trouble. They got stuck and had to do a
:45:52. > :45:55.U-turn and that government was one of the most unsuccessful and most
:45:56. > :45:59.unpopular. The Liberal Democrats promising they would get rid of fees
:46:00. > :46:03.and then going into government and turning Turkey on it almost
:46:04. > :46:08.immediately. For the young who had voted for them and come out in
:46:09. > :46:12.droves that really stuck in their gullet. Is that a warning for the
:46:13. > :46:16.Labour Party in this manifesto? It is always important if you are going
:46:17. > :46:19.to do something you have to be treated. Scrapping tuition fees is
:46:20. > :46:22.going to be something for the Labour Party will hold two? You've got to
:46:23. > :46:26.be careful about what you promise because if you get in there you must
:46:27. > :46:29.deliver it. It is a good point about the Liberal Democrats with tuition
:46:30. > :46:33.fees because that is a classic example of something they give a
:46:34. > :46:39.commitment to do. The justification of being in coalition didn't wash.
:46:40. > :46:43.It didn't wash. It damaged them terribly. You can see that it did
:46:44. > :46:49.long-term damage in the next Parliament. The Labour manifesto, a
:46:50. > :46:52.lot of it was leaked, and the upside is, of course, that voters got to
:46:53. > :46:57.see some of the quite popular policies that Labour are putting
:46:58. > :47:00.forward and the polling shows they are popular. People also saw,
:47:01. > :47:07.forgive me, that the numbers didn't add up. It costs 7 billion to scrap
:47:08. > :47:11.tuition fees. They are announcing 37 billion for the NHS. You talk about
:47:12. > :47:15.the nationalisation, they will buy back into public ownership large
:47:16. > :47:18.amounts of privatised utilities. This is not credible, it does not
:47:19. > :47:23.add up, it costs a huge amount of money and there is no way they can
:47:24. > :47:28.credibly raise this amount from tax. Helena Kennedy, the manifesto on the
:47:29. > :47:33.leadership, will the manifesto be the document, as Tim Bale said, for
:47:34. > :47:36.activists and candidates out on the doorstep to move away from Jeremy
:47:37. > :47:40.Corbyn's leadership which is not polling well? I'm sure on the
:47:41. > :47:45.doorstep people are saying, look at what we are offering you, look at
:47:46. > :47:50.the way we will take you back to a principle set of Labour policies,
:47:51. > :47:54.which are about making sure you have living standards raised again, you
:47:55. > :47:58.have proper jobs. Because Jeremy Corbyn isn't going to be the focal
:47:59. > :48:01.point for the candidates? We've got to take it away from this business
:48:02. > :48:06.which is let's keep talking about Jeremy Corbyn and the things he has
:48:07. > :48:12.done in the past. He is key to your whole policy. Let's cast ahead to
:48:13. > :48:15.the future, could there be a time that we don't have manifestos
:48:16. > :48:18.bearing in mind voters are cynical about parties for one reason or
:48:19. > :48:21.another when they don't follow through on those policies and their
:48:22. > :48:25.breeches for manifesto commitments. Is it really worth doing? I think he
:48:26. > :48:31.will never have a situation where party doesn't have a manifesto. A
:48:32. > :48:35.big written document? We can have a discussion about how long it should
:48:36. > :48:41.be. 25,000 words is probably a bit on the long side. But there will
:48:42. > :48:45.always be a document which people can refer to once the party wins the
:48:46. > :48:48.election, whichever party it is, that they can measure the
:48:49. > :48:53.performance of the party and government to what they said. You've
:48:54. > :48:57.always got to have that degree of accountability. What about the big
:48:58. > :49:01.reveal? Quite often in a manifesto there is a sort of an offer, a
:49:02. > :49:05.reveal that captures the imagination. What should that be in
:49:06. > :49:08.the Conservative manifesto? I think today with what we are doing with
:49:09. > :49:12.workers' rights, it is a bit together the interesting and
:49:13. > :49:15.exciting development for the Conservative Party. As the Prime
:49:16. > :49:18.Minister said, this is the biggest and widest extension of workers'
:49:19. > :49:22.rights any Conservative government will have proposed. And four Labour?
:49:23. > :49:26.I think it is the fact there will be a complete rethinking on the whole
:49:27. > :49:31.tax system and what you have called the Robin Hood tax in fact will
:49:32. > :49:34.actually take us back to the kind of things Labour should have talked
:49:35. > :49:36.about for many years. Are you looking forward to them coming out
:49:37. > :49:41.and will you be studying them in detail? I am and even though they
:49:42. > :49:43.are academic I will be studying them. They will be piling up on your
:49:44. > :49:45.desk. Thank you for joining us. Let's get a round-up of all
:49:46. > :49:55.the other campaign news today. Over to you. I certainly am and for
:49:56. > :49:58.anyone out there pounding the pavements on the campaign trail
:49:59. > :50:02.today, good luck to them because it's pretty wet around.
:50:03. > :50:07.So I'm out here in solidarity with them. In the mixed today for you we
:50:08. > :50:10.have a new signing 14 Labour, a Conservative councillor who has come
:50:11. > :50:14.a cropper on Twitter, and if there is any secret One Direction fans you
:50:15. > :50:20.are watching, and you know who you are, we have something for you too.
:50:21. > :50:23.Sit back and enjoyed today's campaign round-up.
:50:24. > :50:29.The former Communist Party member and senior United official Andrew
:50:30. > :50:33.Murray is reported to have joined Labour's campaign team, he is a
:50:34. > :50:36.long-standing friend and ally of Jeremy Corbyn and Exchequer of the
:50:37. > :50:41.Stop the War Coalition. Andrew Murray is said to be on secondment
:50:42. > :50:43.to help Labour's final push in the general election campaign. Labour
:50:44. > :50:50.told us it does not comment on staffing markets. Meanwhile there is
:50:51. > :50:55.a Labour Party split in Liverpool. Anderson is reported to have vowed
:50:56. > :50:58.never to work with Daniel Carden the man selected over him to be Labour's
:50:59. > :51:02.MP candidate. In a message leaked to the Liverpool Echo Mayor Anderson
:51:03. > :51:06.reportedly wrote I will not work with him either now or in the
:51:07. > :51:10.future. A Conservative councillor has been suspended for an offensive
:51:11. > :51:14.tweet about gypsies which appeared on his account during the Eurovision
:51:15. > :51:18.Song Contest. Nick Harrington of Warwick District Council has been
:51:19. > :51:22.relieved of his duties at the six months. The authorities said an
:51:23. > :51:26.internal investigation is planned. At a London press conference Ukip's
:51:27. > :51:29.economy spokesman today talked about the party deciding to stand aside in
:51:30. > :51:33.some seats for pro Brexit candidates. I think it's just a
:51:34. > :51:38.radically changed political context in which accounts for the fewer
:51:39. > :51:43.number of candidates. The party is fielding a much reduced number of
:51:44. > :51:46.candidates compared with the 2015 general election. Nicola Sturgeon
:51:47. > :51:51.put in an appearance at a rather soggy Hamilton this morning. The
:51:52. > :51:54.First Minister says she wants whoever the next Prime Minister is
:51:55. > :51:58.to include the Scottish Government at the Brexit negotiating table. At
:51:59. > :52:02.least one person was feeling the love.
:52:03. > :52:07.Tim Farron's been addressing the Royal College nursing. Does it feel
:52:08. > :52:12.like conversation and debate in this country has been closed in some way?
:52:13. > :52:14.The Prime Minister and her senior colleagues hiding away from the
:52:15. > :52:22.public. He took a swipe at Theresa May for
:52:23. > :52:26.not fronting up in the TV debates. While One Direction star Harry
:52:27. > :52:31.Stiles has come out as a Remainer, saying he is behind whoever is
:52:32. > :52:33.against Brexit. Tim Farron said Harry is right, the only direction
:52:34. > :52:38.the government is going in is the wrong one.
:52:39. > :52:43.Now, in the run up to the General Election we've been
:52:44. > :52:46.taking a look at some of the smaller parties hoping to win seats.
:52:47. > :52:48.Today it's the turn of the English Democrats.
:52:49. > :52:52.The English Democrats was founded in 2002, and is campaigning
:52:53. > :52:55.It currently has around 2500 followers on Twitter.
:52:56. > :53:02.It wants a referendum on the creation of an English Parliament.
:53:03. > :53:05.And it's calling for the Barnett Formula to be scrapped.
:53:06. > :53:07.The party condemns political correctness,
:53:08. > :53:14.It also wants to make it compulsory for all state-maintained public
:53:15. > :53:16.buildings in England to fly the English flag.
:53:17. > :53:22.And the leader Robin Tilbrook joins me now.
:53:23. > :53:28.Welcome back to the Daily Politics. You are calling for a referendum for
:53:29. > :53:31.an Ingush parliament. Do you think there is an appetite for another
:53:32. > :53:35.referendum bearing in mind we have had quite a lot recently. I think
:53:36. > :53:38.there might well be. We will certainly give it a go and see where
:53:39. > :53:43.we stand in the selection to make that point and to get people to
:53:44. > :53:47.start thinking about what should happen for England. Because after
:53:48. > :53:51.all, we were talking about the manifestos, but the fact is none of
:53:52. > :53:56.the establishment parties are going to do anything in the way of an
:53:57. > :53:58.English manifesto. They have Scottish manifestos, Welsh
:53:59. > :54:01.manifestos but nothing for England. As a result of that do you think
:54:02. > :54:05.there is an appetite for the outcome you are proposing if they were to be
:54:06. > :54:08.a referendum on an Ingush parliament? There isn't any
:54:09. > :54:12.interest. When returning my nomination papers the returning
:54:13. > :54:16.officer said he felt pretty sure if the English were asked in an
:54:17. > :54:20.independence referendum for Scotland they would vote overwhelmingly that
:54:21. > :54:25.the Scots should go. If you look at your support it has dropped
:54:26. > :54:29.dramatically from 2010 two 2015 and in 2015 new fielded 35 candidates
:54:30. > :54:34.and now you are fielding seven. It feels as if this is a diminishing
:54:35. > :54:37.party in that sense. I don't think we are a diminishing party. In
:54:38. > :54:42.fairness we were thinking the election would be in 2020. I take
:54:43. > :54:49.that note and you were not alone in. As a result of that you offer is a
:54:50. > :54:52.bit meagre, let us put it like that. That is fair but we thought we would
:54:53. > :54:56.do an effort in the Manchester mayoral election and we did
:54:57. > :54:58.reasonably well, we beat Ukip in the Manchester mayoral elections and we
:54:59. > :55:02.were feeling quite pleased with ourselves until we suddenly had a
:55:03. > :55:06.snap election and we were left with a situation where we were not really
:55:07. > :55:10.prepared for that. Ukip is also under pressure as the local
:55:11. > :55:16.elections proved. Do you think it's over for pro Brexit anti-immigration
:55:17. > :55:22.parties like yourselves? No. It may be for Ukip. Ukip is specifically
:55:23. > :55:25.about the UK Independence Party as we are about England. Being this
:55:26. > :55:29.question has not really started to be properly addressed by the British
:55:30. > :55:31.establishment. You think there is support for it but there is no
:55:32. > :55:40.evidence there would be. I put to you again. Opinion polls have asked
:55:41. > :55:45.whether even should this Parliament and over 60% supported. I do think
:55:46. > :55:48.there is support. OK, if you are right, David Cameron picked up on
:55:49. > :55:53.that and introduced English votes for English laws. So he answered
:55:54. > :55:56.your question. I don't think he did, the English votes for English laws
:55:57. > :56:02.system is very technical. It doesn't really give an answer to the English
:56:03. > :56:05.question, which the government's inquiry was... He would say it was
:56:06. > :56:11.putting England first. It was a first offer. We were not against him
:56:12. > :56:16.doing it but at the same time I don't think it gets anywhere near
:56:17. > :56:19.the realist you, which is not just about the representation of an
:56:20. > :56:22.English Parliament. It's also about government. And in fact, one of the
:56:23. > :56:27.interesting things about the manifesto leak we had with Labour,
:56:28. > :56:31.is for the first time it looks like there is a British establishment
:56:32. > :56:34.party going to say there should be Secretary of State for Scotland,
:56:35. > :56:36.which there is already, but also for England.
:56:37. > :56:41.One of the things Theresa May has said in this election that
:56:42. > :56:43.extremists are seeking to divide and separatists are trying to break up
:56:44. > :56:51.this country. Who do you think she was talking about? I would certainly
:56:52. > :56:55.think she meant by separatist, some of the things Mike Iupati because we
:56:56. > :57:00.are separatist. We do want to see England as a separate nation state.
:57:01. > :57:05.What's wrong with that? IME unionist so I believe in the argument against
:57:06. > :57:10.Scottish independence. Do you think English rights are properly
:57:11. > :57:15.represented? As Robin suggests there is a debate about the nature of the
:57:16. > :57:18.union, people like Robin Redwood in my party, David Cameron bringing
:57:19. > :57:21.forward English votes for English laws, this is something that is
:57:22. > :57:25.subject to debate but I'm not sure the best vehicle to announce the
:57:26. > :57:29.Mark Evans it is Robin's party and that's why I am a conservative. --
:57:30. > :57:40.best vehicle to There's just time before we go
:57:41. > :57:44.to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was what did
:57:45. > :57:46.Russian President, Vladimir Putin do before
:57:47. > :57:48.meeting Chinese President A) Ride through Beijing
:57:49. > :57:52.on a Harley Davidson. B) Explore sunken shipwrecks
:57:53. > :57:54.in the South China Sea. C) Practise judo with a Chinese
:57:55. > :57:56.national champion or D) play Soviet
:57:57. > :58:05.era songs on a grand piano. Have you got the answer? I am
:58:06. > :58:15.struggling with this one. I think the piano sounds plausible. Helena?
:58:16. > :58:19.I think he went to the South China Sea to Sea shipwrecks. Let's see who
:58:20. > :58:23.is right. Now, one might say Kwasi Kwarteng is
:58:24. > :58:26.right, he was playing old Soviet songs on the piano.
:58:27. > :58:34.They are not exactly once I was familiar with. What do you think? Is
:58:35. > :58:39.it time to stick to the day job rather than being a concert pianist.
:58:40. > :58:43.I was struggling, I didn't recognise the tune. You didn't recognise the
:58:44. > :58:46.tunes at all. We're used to him being bare-chested and riding. Their
:58:47. > :58:48.chested and deep sea diving! That's all for today -
:58:49. > :58:51.thanks to our guests. Particularly for you for being our
:58:52. > :58:54.guests of the day. I'll be here at noon tomorrow
:58:55. > :58:58.with all the big political stories