:00:37. > :00:41.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.Theresa May unveils her party's manifesto with a promise that it
:00:44. > :00:46.will "confront the great challenges of our time".
:00:47. > :00:52.Will the "ordinary working families" she's hoping to appeal to agree?
:00:53. > :00:55.There are big changes to the way social care is funded in England
:00:56. > :00:57.with more people paying for their own care.
:00:58. > :01:03.How will the proposals go down with older voters?
:01:04. > :01:06.As the party recommits, again, to reducing net migration
:01:07. > :01:09.to the "tens of thousands", will making immigration more
:01:10. > :01:11.expensive for companies and individuals help Theresa May
:01:12. > :01:23.And in the thick of the election campaign, is it life imitating art?
:01:24. > :01:33.And much with 10,000 police officers cost? We believe about ?300,000.
:01:34. > :01:38.10,000 police officers, what are you saying?
:01:39. > :01:44.All that in the next hour of this Daily Politics election special.
:01:45. > :01:50.And with us for the duration today is the satirist and creator
:01:51. > :01:55.of 'The Thick Of It', Armando Iannucci.
:01:56. > :02:02.So in the last few minutes the Conservative manifesto has been
:02:03. > :02:05.published with Theresa May launching it at an event in Halifax
:02:06. > :02:12.She said it was a manifesto that would confront the "big,
:02:13. > :02:15.difficult decisions that are right for our country in the long term".
:02:16. > :02:20.We're still digesting the document of course,
:02:21. > :02:28.There are big changes in how social care is funded in England.
:02:29. > :02:33.Currently, anyone with assets - including their home -
:02:34. > :02:39.of over ?23,250 has to pay the costs of residential care themselves.
:02:40. > :02:45.Under the Conservatives' plans, that threshold will increase to ?100,000.
:02:46. > :02:55.But the value of your home will now also be included when assessing
:02:56. > :02:57.the eligibility for helping paying for care provided in the home.
:02:58. > :03:00.Under Conservative plans, these people will also have to pay
:03:01. > :03:02.for that care if they have assets - including their home -
:03:03. > :03:09.Property will not have to be sold during their lifetime to fund care,
:03:10. > :03:14.but can be recouped from the value of their estate when they die.
:03:15. > :03:17.The winter fuel allowance for pensioners, which is a one-off
:03:18. > :03:22.payment of between ?100-300 a person, will become means-tested.
:03:23. > :03:26.And the pensions triple lock, which guarantees that state pensions
:03:27. > :03:32.rise each year by whichever is the highest out of the consumer
:03:33. > :03:40.price index, average earnings, or 2.5%, has also been axed.
:03:41. > :03:44.It will become a double lock in 2020, matching either inflation or
:03:45. > :03:46.average earnings. On immigration, businesses will face
:03:47. > :03:50.a doubling of the skills charge from ?1,000 to ?2,000 for every
:03:51. > :03:52.non-EU migrant they employ Non-EU migrants will also have
:03:53. > :04:01.to pay more to use the NHS, and students will remain
:04:02. > :04:03.in the immigration statistics. Elsewhere, free school lunches
:04:04. > :04:09.for all infants will be axed, and replaced with free breakfasts
:04:10. > :04:12.for all primary school children. And the promise not to increase
:04:13. > :04:27.income tax, national insurance Let's hear what Theresa May had to
:04:28. > :04:35.say launching the manifesto in Halifax. It offers a vision for
:04:36. > :04:41.Britain not just for the next five years but for the years and decades
:04:42. > :04:46.ahead. A stronger Britain where everyone has the economic security
:04:47. > :04:49.they need and the chance to live a secure and full life. A more
:04:50. > :04:57.prosperous Britain where each generation can do wetter than the
:04:58. > :05:02.last. -- can do better. All of this depends on getting the next five
:05:03. > :05:06.years right. Make no mistake, the central challenge we face is
:05:07. > :05:11.negotiating the best deal for Britain in Europe. Our future
:05:12. > :05:14.prosperity, our place in the world, our standard of living, the
:05:15. > :05:19.opportunities we want for our children and their children, each
:05:20. > :05:23.and every one depends on having the strongest possible hand as we enter
:05:24. > :05:30.those negotiations in order to get the best Brexit deal for families
:05:31. > :05:34.across this country. If we fail the consequences for Britain and for the
:05:35. > :05:39.economic security of ordinary working people will be dire. If we
:05:40. > :05:43.succeed, the opportunities ahead of us are great. Theresa May this
:05:44. > :05:44.morning launching the Tory manifesto.
:05:45. > :05:46.Let's talk to our correspondent, Norman Smith, who's been watching
:05:47. > :06:03.What is jumping out at you? The sense that we are seeing today are
:06:04. > :06:08.clear and marked change from the Cameron years. This is a very
:06:09. > :06:13.different Conservative vision and a very different party under Theresa
:06:14. > :06:17.May, not just in the sense that key, emblematic elements of the Cameron
:06:18. > :06:21.years are being jumped like the tax lock and pension lock, free school
:06:22. > :06:27.meals for everyone regardless of income, ending winter fuel allowance
:06:28. > :06:31.is except for the poorest pensioners, abandoning the idea of
:06:32. > :06:36.the social care cap, not just because she is junking all that but
:06:37. > :06:41.the direction of travel. Theresa May is pitching this manifesto at
:06:42. > :06:46.ordinarily families, at people on lower incomes, and that is a change
:06:47. > :06:50.from Mr Cameron's focus which was, by and large, on Middle England, the
:06:51. > :06:56.middle classes, on protecting pensioners. That has gone and has
:06:57. > :07:00.been put to one side particular with pensioners with Mrs May stressing
:07:01. > :07:05.the need for intergenerational fairness. White should younger
:07:06. > :07:11.taxpayers had to pick up the tab for older people to pay for care costs?
:07:12. > :07:15.Again and again so many if the changes she is introducing, you look
:07:16. > :07:19.at the field of employment rights, changes to working conditions, to
:07:20. > :07:22.your right to ask for leave, changes which the TUC described as
:07:23. > :07:28.promising, these are reforms designed to help people, yes you
:07:29. > :07:31.have a job and a family and who maybe have a house, but by no
:07:32. > :07:35.stretch of the imagination are they comfortable Alstead and that is an
:07:36. > :07:38.entirely different pitch for the Tory party. I'm struck how many
:07:39. > :07:46.times over the years we have talked about blue conservatism, blue-collar
:07:47. > :07:49.conservatism but genuinely I think Theresa May has picked that up and
:07:50. > :07:56.that is what she is trying to deliver with this package, and to
:07:57. > :07:59.turn her back on that slightly more aspirational approach of David
:08:00. > :08:03.Cameron. I don't think she is appealing so much to the
:08:04. > :08:07.aspirational classes, she is appealing to those who are just
:08:08. > :08:10.getting by and would like to be a bit more certain about their
:08:11. > :08:15.prospects and their community and future. It is a very different
:08:16. > :08:20.constituency. And the politics of that as we have been watching some
:08:21. > :08:25.pictures of Mrs May at the press conference, let's assume she think
:08:26. > :08:31.it is the right thing to do anyway but politically it helps her to
:08:32. > :08:34.appeal to seats in the Midlands and the North of England which the
:08:35. > :08:40.Tories have not had much success in for perhaps the generation. I think
:08:41. > :08:46.that it absolutely true, there is the obvious tactical move to claw
:08:47. > :08:50.back Labour voters who she believes frankly have given up on Jeremy
:08:51. > :08:55.Corbyn. She wants to get them, but it is more than that. I think she
:08:56. > :09:00.takes the view and the lesson she learned from Brexit was not just
:09:01. > :09:05.people wanted out of the European Union but she believes Brexit was
:09:06. > :09:10.also at how all of rage and impotence from ordinarily families
:09:11. > :09:23.who felt that their views and values were ignored -- a how all -- howl.
:09:24. > :09:26.She has taken that lesson and is refashioning the approach of the
:09:27. > :09:31.Tory party to address that constituency and it is a fundamental
:09:32. > :09:37.repositioning of the Tory party and there will be losers. The losers are
:09:38. > :09:40.people who are pretty much routinely decide on the dotted line for the
:09:41. > :09:46.Tories, pensioners in particular are big-time losers. Business, again
:09:47. > :09:50.traditionally straight down the line Tories, they lose as well not just
:09:51. > :09:54.with the raft of new employment measures, red tape and regulation
:09:55. > :09:58.but new taxes and charges on bringing in labour from abroad.
:09:59. > :10:02.Business will say, hang on, we are trying to grow business and the
:10:03. > :10:03.economy, there is a labour shortage in the country and we have to bring
:10:04. > :10:12.people in. Theresa May is saying that is all
:10:13. > :10:14.very well but people are concerned about immigration and she is
:10:15. > :10:18.prioritising the Brexit community who are worried about the changing
:10:19. > :10:22.landscape in Britain and the changing communities which they put
:10:23. > :10:27.down to large-scale immigration and that, in her mind, comes up for
:10:28. > :10:30.traditional Tory focus on encouraging business and a
:10:31. > :10:38.pro-business environment. It is more than just a tactical pitch to take
:10:39. > :10:40.back Labour voters, it is the lessons of Brexit and the
:10:41. > :10:45.refashioning of what the Tories stand for and who they represent, at
:10:46. > :10:51.least that is her view. I keep very much, we will let you go back in and
:10:52. > :10:52.ask a question! Norman Smith in Anna Firth -- in Halifax.
:10:53. > :10:56.We're joined now the former Justice Minister, Dominic Raab.
:10:57. > :11:04.It is a watershed in a different kind of conservatism from Mr
:11:05. > :11:14.Cameron's version and that chip -- and Mrs Thatcher's? I was struck, I
:11:15. > :11:17.felt it was a much more optimistic and vicious perspective than Babs
:11:18. > :11:21.Norman characterised about taking Britain forward but she is certainly
:11:22. > :11:26.making it clear that there are difficult challenges ahead and we
:11:27. > :11:29.are saying that the demo -- or the Conservatives have a plan and in
:11:30. > :11:34.Theresa May the leader to deliver Brexit and make it work for the
:11:35. > :11:38.country but also deal with the flawed market and makes the cost of
:11:39. > :11:41.living for lower and middle income families is addressed and critically
:11:42. > :11:45.dealing with some of the burning social issues which have been
:11:46. > :11:50.something of a car before too long. Let's look at social care, it is
:11:51. > :11:56.quite complicated, what is the reasoning? We want to put social
:11:57. > :11:59.care on a sustainable footing. There are difficult decisions to make like
:12:00. > :12:06.means testing the winter fuel allowance so that only those who
:12:07. > :12:11.have more money are not playing, it is focused on the less well off
:12:12. > :12:16.pensioners, but that allows us to fund sustainable social care and
:12:17. > :12:21.protect up to ?100,000, the assets of those receiving social care and
:12:22. > :12:25.the message to finish, is that we want to do the socially responsible
:12:26. > :12:29.thing for our elderly citizens but without engaging in something which
:12:30. > :12:33.is reckless for the public finances and that is the prospectus. The cost
:12:34. > :12:37.is there are a huge number of people who will have their social care
:12:38. > :12:41.costs increasing. The principle is that if you can afford to pay,
:12:42. > :12:45.whether from your income or your assets, you should contribute. The
:12:46. > :12:50.flip side otherwise is that it all in the state and it is the taxpayers
:12:51. > :12:53.underpinning it. It is a question about balance. So many people have
:12:54. > :12:57.ducked this. I'm not suggesting people aren't going to come out and
:12:58. > :13:00.say there are winners and losers and Norman made that point but we are
:13:01. > :13:03.grappling with this issue and putting on a sustainable footing and
:13:04. > :13:09.maybe others offering a credible plan for addressing social care.
:13:10. > :13:12.They will have to play more -- pay more, a number of people, and at the
:13:13. > :13:15.same time you are abolishing the lifetime cap on how much people will
:13:16. > :13:20.contribute to social care. They will be paying even more ad that will be
:13:21. > :13:24.the chronically ill, the most vulnerable, you are taking away the
:13:25. > :13:29.lifetime cap as well. The key thing is that for the vulnerable and those
:13:30. > :13:32.on the lowest incomes, we will make sure that the Social Security
:13:33. > :13:36.cushion if you like is always there. It is those who are more affluent
:13:37. > :13:42.with assets and income who will be asked to contribute a bit more. Many
:13:43. > :13:46.poor people will have a property that is worth more than 100,000. Of
:13:47. > :13:53.course, I know that will be an issue. So the cap on them is going,
:13:54. > :13:58.their costs will go up as well. If that really fair, the sensible way
:13:59. > :14:03.with social care already being quite expensive, to take away the cap and
:14:04. > :14:08.make more people pay more? Where is the progress? The progress is that
:14:09. > :14:12.social care will be on a sustainable footing. For the government but not
:14:13. > :14:15.the people who have to pay. People recognised with an ageing population
:14:16. > :14:18.and the costs that go with it, the Kings fund have done reports on
:14:19. > :14:22.this, there is a critical balance between your ability to contribute
:14:23. > :14:27.to your own care costs and asking the taxpayers to foot the bill. You
:14:28. > :14:30.can strike the balance of different way but nobody else has come up with
:14:31. > :14:33.a credible plan to put that on a sustainable footing and that is why
:14:34. > :14:37.I think a lot of pensioners will look at this and think that at least
:14:38. > :14:40.this is not sustainable. With the extra money going into the NHS we
:14:41. > :14:44.are dealing with some of these burning social issues. I will come
:14:45. > :14:49.onto the extra money in a moment, but you're going to make the elderly
:14:50. > :14:52.pay more for the social care, at least a large number, you are
:14:53. > :14:56.abandoning the pensions triple lock which is now a double lock, and your
:14:57. > :15:00.ticket awaits fuel allowances for all but the poorest I would guess
:15:01. > :15:03.but we don't know what the means test is. Anything else you would
:15:04. > :15:10.like to hit pensioners with? That is a hat-trick, do you want to go for a
:15:11. > :15:13.fourth? You pick up the negatives, that is your job but we have
:15:14. > :15:18.predictably acid of those benefiting from social get up to ?100,000 and
:15:19. > :15:22.the triple lock is turning into a double lock and we have said that
:15:23. > :15:25.until 2020 we will protect the triple lock because the state
:15:26. > :15:31.pension has been so dumbed down under Labour and after that it will
:15:32. > :15:35.store protected and increase. But in line with prices and wages. What
:15:36. > :15:39.that does is it puts the state pension, it put social get on a
:15:40. > :15:43.sustainable footing. Theresa May has said it is not easy, wouldn't relish
:15:44. > :15:45.having to make difficult decisions but no one out as the leadership to
:15:46. > :15:54.grapple with this. Let's go to the NHS, huge concern
:15:55. > :16:02.that not enough money is being given to the NHS and you see here, you do
:16:03. > :16:08.not get to it until page 66 out of 83 pages of manifesto, page 66, we
:16:09. > :16:14.will increase NHS spending by a minimum of ?8 billion in real terms
:16:15. > :16:18.over the next five years, what does that mean? You have the manifesto,
:16:19. > :16:26.we are saying extra investment will go in at a minimum of ?8 billion,
:16:27. > :16:31.that is an annual sum. I think people know the Conservatives have
:16:32. > :16:35.cut the deficit from 152 billion to 52 billion, I don't think anybody
:16:36. > :16:39.thinks we are not careful custodians with the public finances, that is
:16:40. > :16:48.what you have just been having a go at me about. I am just seeking
:16:49. > :16:54.clarification, is this 8 billion on top of the 8 billion you are
:16:55. > :16:58.currently adding into the NHS? I have been on my way to the studio so
:16:59. > :17:03.I don't even have the benefits that you have, I have been briefed but it
:17:04. > :17:08.was only just released... We nor the NHS is one of the biggest issues of
:17:09. > :17:13.the campaign, I have got the spending figures here from the
:17:14. > :17:18.Department of Health, in 2014, 2015, the health budget, this is the
:17:19. > :17:25.Department of Health so I assume it is just England, maybe Wales. It is
:17:26. > :17:30.your table. It is your government 's table. You fished it out. But that
:17:31. > :17:39.does not mean I own it. Stop filibustering let's get to the fax.
:17:40. > :17:45.A billion for the NHS in 2014-15 is what you inherited, on the
:17:46. > :17:53.projections we have at the moment it rises to 126.5 by 2021, that is the
:17:54. > :17:58.8 billion the previous government promised, it rises by a little bit
:17:59. > :18:04.every year to get to the extra 8 billion, is this 8 billion the same
:18:05. > :18:07.or is it on top of that 8 billion? Since that is your table and you
:18:08. > :18:11.have read the manifesto but I was on the way here so could not I cannot
:18:12. > :18:17.answer that. There is additional money going into the NHS. We do not
:18:18. > :18:25.know that. It's interesting that you choose the figure of 8 billion as it
:18:26. > :18:29.muddies the waters. In fairness if you invite me on the shore when
:18:30. > :18:32.Theresa May is on her feet and now they hope the manifesto very tightly
:18:33. > :18:38.you cannot expect me to have read it. Are you not briefed? Are you not
:18:39. > :18:44.in the loop? Are you not in the thick of it? Evidently not as in the
:18:45. > :18:52.loop as you are. I am not in the loop, I don't know what your party
:18:53. > :19:06.is talking about. It was your party... A 126.5 billion is the
:19:07. > :19:15.current planned spending by 2021, does this 8 billion mean that by
:19:16. > :19:20.2021 it will be 134 billion? As with the previous question you know I
:19:21. > :19:25.don't have that chart for the manifesto. But the headline is 8
:19:26. > :19:30.billion of new investment going into the NHS. Then it would be 134
:19:31. > :19:36.billion. We are investing more in the NHS, and reforming it with a
:19:37. > :19:42.greater focus on mental health and the seven-day NHS. Careful
:19:43. > :19:46.custodians of the public finances but we won't let people slept
:19:47. > :19:52.through the cracks who need our support. It's the figures that
:19:53. > :19:56.matter. I understand that. If we could have this conversation two
:19:57. > :20:00.hours later I would be able to answer that. On immigration why do
:20:01. > :20:06.you keep on making a promise you can never keep. We are doubling down on
:20:07. > :20:11.our commitment to reduce the volume of immigration to tens of thousands,
:20:12. > :20:16.Brexit lets us get control in areas with EU immigration we have not had
:20:17. > :20:21.before. What we have set out in the manifesto amongst other things is an
:20:22. > :20:28.increase in the charge on skills so when employers take in from outside
:20:29. > :20:32.of the EU foreign workers, actually there is a ?2000 charge the pay and
:20:33. > :20:36.the balance we are trying to strike is we want employees to be able to
:20:37. > :20:40.plug the skills gap in the economy but not be able to just bring in
:20:41. > :20:47.cheap Labour that undercuts the wages of skilled and non-skilled
:20:48. > :20:53.workers. The target you sent in the 2010 election then the 2015 election
:20:54. > :20:57.and now again is to get met immigration down below 100000 and
:20:58. > :21:02.you say Brexit will get it easier to do that but you have always had
:21:03. > :21:07.control non-EU migration, how much is that at the moment? If you look,
:21:08. > :21:16.it ebbs and flows but it is broadly 50-50. Even that part of migration
:21:17. > :21:21.that you have absolute control over you have not been able to get down
:21:22. > :21:26.to the tens of thousands but you keep on making these promises...
:21:27. > :21:31.First of all it's not quite true because the EU rules due to some
:21:32. > :21:33.extent do apply to non-EU nationals because of our rules on
:21:34. > :21:39.discrimination but you are basically right and we make no bones about
:21:40. > :21:42.this. We still have to get control of immigration. Brexit presents an
:21:43. > :21:54.opportunity but there are other issues we will have to address in
:21:55. > :21:57.relation to non-EU migration and what the skills charge exemplifies
:21:58. > :22:00.is that yes we need to plug the gaps but we will not have the skill and
:22:01. > :22:02.volume of immigration that put a strain on housing and public
:22:03. > :22:05.services and undercuts skilled and low skilled Labour in this country
:22:06. > :22:11.and their wages. Armando what do you make of all this? This is a big
:22:12. > :22:15.risk, people will be talking for a long time about her assault on the
:22:16. > :22:20.elderly if you want to dramatise it because they tend to vote Tory. I
:22:21. > :22:26.think what she has decided is that it is a risk worth taking was Gene
:22:27. > :22:29.makes moves not just into the left to pinch some of Ed Miliband 's
:22:30. > :22:35.policies about energy caps but to the right to hoover up the Ukip
:22:36. > :22:40.vote. Tough language on immigration that you picked up on, I find it's
:22:41. > :22:44.almost like being in a dream, you know in a dream you are looking at
:22:45. > :22:48.one person and they turn into somebody else and they don't bat an
:22:49. > :22:53.eyelid, sometimes she's a bit Ed Miliband, sometimes she is Nigel
:22:54. > :22:58.Farage and at other times she is Margaret Thatcher and I find it
:22:59. > :23:03.fascinating. I think it shows she is taking this large percentage of
:23:04. > :23:09.voters for granted. She has voted they will not vote for -- she has
:23:10. > :23:16.assumed they will not vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, so she is making
:23:17. > :23:21.a loader play for the Brexit, blue-collar vote. I think there are
:23:22. > :23:27.a quite a few of the elderly voters who want to see things on a stable
:23:28. > :23:30.footing, a lot of pensioners have got children and grandchildren and
:23:31. > :23:35.recognise the challenges they face and dealing with that key issue of
:23:36. > :23:43.our generation, intergenerational fairness, is close to her heart.
:23:44. > :23:49.There is one thing that is missing from this manifesto, quite a major
:23:50. > :23:55.omission. I would like you to tell me why, why is there are no apology
:23:56. > :24:00.to Ed Miliband for all the ideas you disparaged that you have now
:24:01. > :24:05.included of his in this Tory manifesto? App will I don't think we
:24:06. > :24:11.are in the business of apologising. You pinched his ideas after calling
:24:12. > :24:17.them Marxist. Energy Capcom are more money for the NHS. First of all,
:24:18. > :24:22.more money for the NHS was a promise we made and Labour did not match. Ed
:24:23. > :24:28.Miliband proposed an energy freeze, not a cap and the difference is
:24:29. > :24:34.energy companies would hike prices which would legalise consumers, are
:24:35. > :24:42.is a cap, you can still have competition underneath it but we
:24:43. > :24:51.will stop the rip-off of consumers. Tougher rules on takeover? I
:24:52. > :24:57.remember Ed Miliband proposing that. Top rules on corporate pay. Quite a
:24:58. > :25:01.lot. Theresa May and the Conservatives have been talking
:25:02. > :25:08.about shareholders exercising more pay -- control over corporate paper
:25:09. > :25:12.quite some time. What you are showing is that Theresa May is
:25:13. > :25:15.reaching out to aspirational working and middle class voters and we think
:25:16. > :25:21.she has the plan and leadership to deliver. Thank you very much Dominic
:25:22. > :25:23.Ryan. Let's stick with the manifesto.
:25:24. > :25:25.Let's talk to the Spectator's Fraser Nelson and the Guardian
:25:26. > :25:36.Polly what do you make of it? She is doing what they always do, heading
:25:37. > :25:45.for the middle ground, Labour turf, very much like David Cameron dead,
:25:46. > :25:48.do you remember the foodie hugging, big society, time off for
:25:49. > :25:54.volunteering, soft and cuddly and all of the rest of it, she's doing
:25:55. > :25:59.it in a different tone but the same tactic. What we want is to see it
:26:00. > :26:06.delivered and the hard policies are very few suggesting her heading in
:26:07. > :26:13.that direction. And Fraser what is your headline take? People wondered
:26:14. > :26:17.what happened to the editor after the last general election and now we
:26:18. > :26:24.know it has been reincarnated as this manifesto. There is the
:26:25. > :26:31.anti-corporate, being portrayed as asset strippers and new rules, quite
:26:32. > :26:34.significant new rules allowing the Prime Minister to stop takeovers and
:26:35. > :26:38.significantly she has given herself until the middle of the next decade
:26:39. > :26:44.to balance the books. George Osborne said it would be 2015 and now she is
:26:45. > :26:48.seeing 2025, that means Britain will go through something like a quarter
:26:49. > :26:52.century without having got rid of the deficit. So fiscally I think we
:26:53. > :26:58.can see lots more spending and not too many worries about how it will
:26:59. > :27:08.be paid for. Is the politics of this, although she was a remain, she
:27:09. > :27:14.listened to why people voted for Brexit the Midlands, the North,
:27:15. > :27:17.traditional Labour voters, and she wants to move into that territory,
:27:18. > :27:26.take back seats the Tories have not had in the North, elements of a
:27:27. > :27:32.blue-collar conservatives, will that politically, does it help the Tories
:27:33. > :27:37.to win seats they probably have not had for a generation? I think it
:27:38. > :27:41.does, hard Brexit and was very Brexit seats, she is suggesting a
:27:42. > :27:46.frighteningly hard Brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal terrifies
:27:47. > :27:51.the city and most conservative backers. Also a lot of it, Labour
:27:52. > :27:54.have been accused of a fantasy manifesto that if you look at her
:27:55. > :27:58.pledge on immigration it's impossible, she can go around the
:27:59. > :28:08.Midlands and tell them she will reduce it to the tens of thousands
:28:09. > :28:10.but she was Home Secretary and could not do it. We have hundred 54,000
:28:11. > :28:13.students alone, you go through each category and none of them will say
:28:14. > :28:19.which category is it that they are going to cut? Which industry will be
:28:20. > :28:24.hit? The NHS, agriculture? She does not say because it cannot be done
:28:25. > :28:29.and would be done but it will get her through the election saying that
:28:30. > :28:35.black is white is black. Have me asking the same questions again and
:28:36. > :28:40.again like Groundhog Day. Fraser, if you think, if the Conservatives
:28:41. > :28:46.think that older voters will not vote for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour
:28:47. > :28:52.Party, if you think you are going to win by a landslide, then maybe you
:28:53. > :28:59.can take some risks on policies for old-age pensioners? But is that not
:29:00. > :29:04.still risky? There is still an element of risk in this. Last time I
:29:05. > :29:09.looked she had something like a 50 point lead over older voters and you
:29:10. > :29:12.cannot get more impregnable than that. Previously whether it is
:29:13. > :29:19.Labour or Tory party leaders Bobby had to break the elderly to the
:29:20. > :29:23.election. She has quite rightly got rid of that but what she has not
:29:24. > :29:27.done is repair the cuts made to the working age people. She could have
:29:28. > :29:31.said I am going to restore generational fairness, not to raise
:29:32. > :29:36.by the pension as much and go easier on the tax credit cuts. She's not
:29:37. > :29:41.done that which is something I am sad about but she doesn't think she
:29:42. > :29:47.can break the addiction to bribing the elderly. Polly, finally, there
:29:48. > :29:53.is a new poll in the standard, the daily Osborne as we call it, which
:29:54. > :29:59.does show the gap has narrowed, Labour only 15 points behind, is
:30:00. > :30:06.still some hope for Jeremy Corbyn? Only 15 points, how bad can things
:30:07. > :30:09.be? The gap was bound to narrow it usually does during elections. We
:30:10. > :30:14.will see on the day what it means but I don't think many people
:30:15. > :30:19.seriously think 15 points can suddenly be wiped away, Jeremy
:30:20. > :30:24.Corbyn today has said that the Tories are hitting the older voters
:30:25. > :30:29.and Labour have offered ridiculous bribes to older voters and on this
:30:30. > :30:33.one thing Theresa May is right, to take money from the older richer
:30:34. > :30:43.people in order, rather than taking it from the poor, to pay for their
:30:44. > :30:46.own care. Cross dressing both ways. We are big into cross dressing here
:30:47. > :30:51.so we will end on that note, thank you.
:30:52. > :30:57.There is an interesting think political here, when the left was
:30:58. > :31:05.last factored in the 1980s with the social Democrats leaving the Labour
:31:06. > :31:09.Party, the Thatcher response was to move to the right to put what became
:31:10. > :31:15.known as the Thatcherite reforms and to push them in. Mrs May is facing a
:31:16. > :31:21.fractured left in various ways and her response has been removed to the
:31:22. > :31:27.centre or even centre left. I think it is both ways, right and left. The
:31:28. > :31:31.most successful crossdressing politician in the last 18 months has
:31:32. > :31:40.been Donald Trump, who again with a nominally right-wing party but had
:31:41. > :31:43.said the left wing social views. He caused that amount of confusion
:31:44. > :31:47.within the electorate and the politicos and got in as a result.
:31:48. > :31:50.I'm not suggesting Theresa May is our Donald Trump, but she has
:31:51. > :31:56.learned something from that into making yourself look surprising and
:31:57. > :32:02.distinctive by confounding expectations. Whether that is
:32:03. > :32:05.enough... I think in her head she is actually trying to launch the start
:32:06. > :32:10.of the Conservative Empire. She talked about it being a manifesto
:32:11. > :32:14.for the next five years and decades afterwards and she sees this empty
:32:15. > :32:20.centre with the Lib Dems not making much headway and this right-wing
:32:21. > :32:27.vacated by Ukip and she knows she can hoover up almost 50% of that
:32:28. > :32:32.area from the centre to the right. That is a strategy I think. It is a
:32:33. > :32:34.kind of realignment as well, interesting.
:32:35. > :32:36.Now, we've been wheeling the Daily Politics' balls
:32:37. > :32:39.Ellie's pushed them across the English border to Carlisle
:32:40. > :32:51.Where the sun is shining! We are taking a break from the campaign
:32:52. > :32:55.Trail and the issues specifically affecting the poll on the 8th of
:32:56. > :33:00.June and instead are talking more generally about general elections.
:33:01. > :33:04.And the voting age. We are about ten miles away from Scotland where
:33:05. > :33:08.16-year-olds can vote in certain elections but we are asking if the
:33:09. > :33:10.voting age in general elections across the UK should be reduced to
:33:11. > :33:36.16 or stay at 18. When I was 16 I knew
:33:37. > :33:38.who I wanted to vote for and because all people
:33:39. > :33:40.are going to die. Do you think 16-year-olds
:33:41. > :33:42.should have the vote? When I was 16 I wasn't mature
:33:43. > :33:48.enough to do anything. You're knowledgeable enough
:33:49. > :33:50.at 16 to know what's going on and want to have a say
:33:51. > :33:53.in what's going on around the country and world so I think
:33:54. > :33:56.it's fair to let vote. I have a 12-year-old daughter
:33:57. > :34:00.and I find it hard to imagine that by the age of 16 she will be ready
:34:01. > :34:03.to make a decision like that. I'm from Scotland, so I've
:34:04. > :34:06.worked in the elections, I did the polling clerk there,
:34:07. > :34:09.quite a few times, and a lot of the younger ones are coming
:34:10. > :34:12.in with their parents now so it's encouraging to see younger ones
:34:13. > :34:14.coming in and voting. Were you interested
:34:15. > :34:16.in politics when you were 16? Because I think if they're allowed
:34:17. > :34:33.to do lots of other things when they're 16 why not
:34:34. > :34:35.vote as well? They're eligible to get
:34:36. > :34:37.married, I've just been I think they mature a lot
:34:38. > :34:54.between 16 and 18, a lot. Yes, it's surprising
:34:55. > :35:11.what children do eat. Do you think 16-year-olds
:35:12. > :35:13.should have the vote? We've shopped around for people's
:35:14. > :35:21.opinions here in the market and it would seem that if you are 16
:35:22. > :35:24.going on 17 wanting a say People here think you need to be
:35:25. > :35:28.18 to have the vote. And Armando Iannucci,
:35:29. > :35:37.who is campaigning to get more younger people to vote,
:35:38. > :35:45.is still with us. I was quite encouraged by that
:35:46. > :35:51.actually. You would like to see it at 16? I think it would help. When I
:35:52. > :35:54.heard the Scottish in abundance referendum was open to 16-year-olds
:35:55. > :35:59.I was initially a bit nervous but I thought it had a tremendous impact
:36:00. > :36:02.-- independence referendum. It introduced a whole generation into
:36:03. > :36:05.the political debate and for the first on they felt they were taking
:36:06. > :36:10.part in a conversation that mattered. It introduced them to the
:36:11. > :36:16.whole world politics and political engagement. It was an interesting
:36:17. > :36:20.fact that the proportion of 17-year-olds who voted in the
:36:21. > :36:28.referendum was higher than those in the 18 to 21-year-old bracket. It
:36:29. > :36:32.energised them. Perhaps the Scottish referendum, which energised every
:36:33. > :36:37.part of Scotland and the turnout was amazing, that was the exception that
:36:38. > :36:42.proves the rule. And it was on one issue. Young people are more
:36:43. > :36:47.engaged, not so much in party politics as in single issue
:36:48. > :36:51.politics. That is what I think the party political system is a bit of a
:36:52. > :36:56.turn-off for them. The voting turnout for 18 to 24-year-old in the
:36:57. > :37:01.last 25 years has gone right down, it used to be about 70% and it's now
:37:02. > :37:06.about 45% and by find it worrying because if you don't take part in
:37:07. > :37:08.the first time you are eligible, in the process, it is difficult to
:37:09. > :37:14.encourage you to take part further down the line. The turnout among 16
:37:15. > :37:18.and 17-year-olds, for a general election if they had the vote, it's
:37:19. > :37:25.likely to be pretty low. We don't know, we've never done it before. I
:37:26. > :37:29.think coupled with that it is important we actually introduce
:37:30. > :37:34.children and young adults to politics within schools, I don't
:37:35. > :37:38.mean campaigning, but we get sex education, how to write a CV and
:37:39. > :37:45.apply for jobs, I think it would be useful, if the vote was extended to
:37:46. > :37:49.16, there would be a need to open up class is about politics and how the
:37:50. > :37:54.political system works in the UK. How Parliament works, devolution,
:37:55. > :37:59.local government. Good luck in getting a neutral teaching view on
:38:00. > :38:02.that! The Tories used to blame the 1945 election on the Army
:38:03. > :38:13.information centre! And there is a Tory reluctance. David Cameron was
:38:14. > :38:16.offered the possible the opening up the EU referendum to 16-year-olds
:38:17. > :38:20.and he said no because he thought it might put in an anti-Tory bias. It
:38:21. > :38:24.might have helped him in the referendum! People tend to want
:38:25. > :38:31.these changes because it suits how they would like people to vote. They
:38:32. > :38:35.are saying they were more likely to be pro-independence in Scotland. Do
:38:36. > :38:43.you want this because it would help Labour? No, I'm passionate about
:38:44. > :38:48.politics, I dislike the fact that consistently over the last 25 years
:38:49. > :38:52.overall turnouts have gone down both parties have gained majorities,
:38:53. > :38:58.sometimes quite big majorities on tiny proportions of the population.
:38:59. > :39:02.I think that it stayed and it leads to frustration and anger and that is
:39:03. > :39:05.where things get worrying. We have a political system now where most
:39:06. > :39:08.people who vote will not get the government they voted for and we
:39:09. > :39:13.have to do something about that. What I say to young people, think
:39:14. > :39:16.about yourself. The more young people who vote, the more
:39:17. > :39:24.politicians will listen to them and be aware of them as an important
:39:25. > :39:28.lobby. Until today, the old vote, the 65 and over, that was a powerful
:39:29. > :39:30.lobby. The Grey Panthers they used to call in the United States!
:39:31. > :39:32.Now, throughout the campaign we will be featuring some
:39:33. > :39:34.of the smaller parties fielding candidates at the general election.
:39:35. > :39:39.Today it's one of the parties on the hard left of British politics.
:39:40. > :39:41.The Workers Revolutionary Party is the British section
:39:42. > :39:44.of the International Committee of the Fourth International,
:39:45. > :39:54.but produces several publications, including a daily newspaper.
:39:55. > :39:55.It's campaigning for a Labour government and calls
:39:56. > :39:58.on supporters to vote Labour where the WRP isn't standing.
:39:59. > :40:01.It argues that that would best lead the struggle for the British
:40:02. > :40:15.The party wants an immediate break with the European Union
:40:16. > :40:17.and a Socialist United States of Europe instead.
:40:18. > :40:20.It also calls for an end to "British imperialism"
:40:21. > :40:31.and would redirect defence spending to the public sector.
:40:32. > :40:39.Let's have a word with Frank Sweeney who is representing the party.
:40:40. > :40:44.Welcome to the programme. You have said that if there is not a WR P
:40:45. > :40:51.candidate, vote Labour. Have you done that before? , it is a normal
:40:52. > :40:55.default position? Yes, it is the normal position we dig, we support
:40:56. > :40:58.the struggle of the working class against capitalism and the Labour
:40:59. > :41:03.Party is a working-class party with the origins in the trade unions.
:41:04. > :41:08.Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the general Kotze guide
:41:09. > :41:13.analysis was that the Labour Party was a sell-out to the capitalist
:41:14. > :41:18.classes? The leadership has sold out. Because of its political
:41:19. > :41:22.outlook, it is a reformist outlook and if you look at their manifesto
:41:23. > :41:27.is a Fabian conception that the economic crisis as finished. While
:41:28. > :41:30.we agreed with things they put in their manifesto, they can't achieve
:41:31. > :41:35.them without overthrowing capitalism. It is impossible to
:41:36. > :41:39.achieve those demands within a capitalist society, especially under
:41:40. > :41:47.such a crisis building up in the economy as there is. And how many
:41:48. > :41:52.WRP and are you running? Five. Are they spread around? There are four
:41:53. > :41:58.in London and one in Sheffield. Is London fertile territory for you?
:41:59. > :42:02.The whole country is. In the campaigns we have that in those
:42:03. > :42:05.constituencies we have had a fantastic response because while we
:42:06. > :42:09.have come across on high Street and canvassing door-to-door, a lot of
:42:10. > :42:14.people who agree with the Labour Party, they don't believe it will be
:42:15. > :42:17.able to carry through their programme, they agreed with it and
:42:18. > :42:23.hope it can be carried through but don't believe the Labour Party will
:42:24. > :42:28.be able to do it. Isn't Trotsky at the 20th century, has his time not
:42:29. > :42:37.come and gone? No, he is 21st century. Capitalism is 19th century.
:42:38. > :42:41.Seriously... Where is it in retreat? The economy, the economic crisis of
:42:42. > :42:46.ten years ago, they are trying to pretend it has gone. Their solution
:42:47. > :42:52.to a debt crisis, they called it a credit crisis but it was a crisis of
:42:53. > :42:58.debt, was to increase debt through quantitative easing in all the major
:42:59. > :43:01.economies. They have made that debt bubble fantastically bigger,
:43:02. > :43:06.probably 1000 times than in 2008, and it's going to go. As in the
:43:07. > :43:10.trend been, rather than capitalist countries moving to become more like
:43:11. > :43:13.you would like them to be, but the other way round, Marxist countries
:43:14. > :43:18.have become more capitalist thinking of Russia and China. I don't know
:43:19. > :43:22.where you have been living but what has been going on in the last few
:43:23. > :43:26.years in the world? What has happened in France in the last few
:43:27. > :43:31.weeks with the two main capitalist parties, the Republican Party and
:43:32. > :43:36.the Socialist party... They are in huge decline, they elected a
:43:37. > :43:40.neoliberal instead. But he has got nothing. He hasn't got a party, he
:43:41. > :43:44.is relying on the old political parties to give him support. And 4
:43:45. > :43:49.million young people in France refused, they hate Marine Le Pen
:43:50. > :43:52.antifascist movement but they refused to vote for Macron because
:43:53. > :43:57.they don't agree because he is part of the old establishment. But Mrs Le
:43:58. > :44:03.Pen got the largest number of young voters of any party. That's because
:44:04. > :44:13.of the disillusionment with bourgeois politics. One more thing,
:44:14. > :44:19.I'm wondering where the world is going in your direction? Towards
:44:20. > :44:24.revolution. But where? All over the globe, if you look in America, in
:44:25. > :44:28.South America, Africa, Europe, the European Union is disintegrating
:44:29. > :44:38.before our eyes. Frank Sweeney, thank you, don't go yet! Relax. We
:44:39. > :44:39.talked about the Conservative Party manifesto this morning.
:44:40. > :44:40.Here's Emma with our campaign round-up.
:44:41. > :44:48.Scottish Labour has suspended all nine members of the Labour group in
:44:49. > :44:52.Aberdeen for its coalition arrangement on the council with the
:44:53. > :44:57.Conservatives saying this breached party rules. There is currently now
:44:58. > :45:00.no councillors in office in Aberdeen representing Labour. Suspicions have
:45:01. > :45:05.been raised that after the election they may be back in the fold and
:45:06. > :45:09.things may go back to normal. Tweeting inspirational quote is all
:45:10. > :45:14.very well but make sure the person actually said them. Jeremy Corbyn
:45:15. > :45:18.was caught at treating a fake quote attributed to Nye Bevan, the famous
:45:19. > :45:21.are to get the NHS, allotment shed message that the word actually
:45:22. > :45:31.originate from a 90s television play. Boris Johnson said sorry after
:45:32. > :45:34.a remark in a campaign visit to seek gurdwara in Bristol, saying that a
:45:35. > :45:40.future Conservative government would end tariffs on India's input of
:45:41. > :45:49.British whiskey. Alcohol is an issue. Let me... The woman said it
:45:50. > :45:52.was a credit to promote alcohol inside their place of worship. Mr
:45:53. > :45:58.Johnson apologised but said he was making a good point about trade. A
:45:59. > :46:03.Ukip candid in Derby has described his own party's immigration policy
:46:04. > :46:08.as stupid as in -- and impractical. I'm a great fan of Indian food,
:46:09. > :46:13.where would we be without the band with a chic chefs? Speaking to BBC
:46:14. > :46:17.radio, Bill Piper undersized Paul Nuttall's aim of cutting net
:46:18. > :46:22.migration to zero with a one in, one out policy -- criticised. George
:46:23. > :46:25.Osborne's Evening Standard criticised Theresa May for the aim
:46:26. > :46:26.of reducing net migration to the tens of thousands a year, calling it
:46:27. > :46:37.literally crash and Broken down battle bus spotted last
:46:38. > :46:44.night with engine trouble. And who is this calling the shots? Former
:46:45. > :46:48.Labour leader Ed Miliband stepping in as a bingo caller to entertain
:46:49. > :46:57.pensioners. Some said he found his true calling.
:46:58. > :47:00.Let's get back to our main story now, that's the launch
:47:01. > :47:03.There are some big changes to the funding
:47:04. > :47:07.There are also changes to the party's commitments
:47:08. > :47:10.of taxation as well as the promise of more money for the NHS.
:47:11. > :47:12.Well, I'm joined now by Paul Johnson of the Institute
:47:13. > :47:22.Talking to Dominic Crabb earlier but he had not been fully briefed on the
:47:23. > :47:29.situation, there is at the moment an extra 8 billion going into the NHS
:47:30. > :47:38.over five years, or actually six from 2014-15 to 2020-21, going from
:47:39. > :47:45.118 billion to 126 billion, is the 8 billion they talk about on page 66,
:47:46. > :47:48.is that on top of this? My understanding is that compared with
:47:49. > :47:54.two day what the Conservatives are saying is there will be an 8 billion
:47:55. > :47:59.real increase in funding in five years' time. Most of that on top of
:48:00. > :48:02.the current 8 billion. Most of that has come through but not all of it.
:48:03. > :48:07.The most interesting thing about these numbers is that it looks like
:48:08. > :48:12.Labour and the Conservatives are on the same page, if you look at their
:48:13. > :48:15.manifestos in term of NHS spending commitments five years down the road
:48:16. > :48:21.they have presented them in different terms but they look
:48:22. > :48:26.similar. There is not much to choose between them. That is interesting
:48:27. > :48:30.because that must be calculated, how they are bonded we do not know and
:48:31. > :48:33.we have asked Labour are a lot of questions how they will fund it so
:48:34. > :48:38.the Tory would have do explain as well, but if they are able to fund
:48:39. > :48:45.it and it will now be 8 billion on top of 126 billion... I take it as
:48:46. > :48:55.an top of whatever we are spending now. Now we are spending almost 124,
:48:56. > :48:59.so up to 132. That would to some extent take the wind out of Labour's
:49:00. > :49:07.sales on NHS spending if this is accurate. The Labour promises on the
:49:08. > :49:11.NHS were very modest. We have had an incredibly tight seven years for NHS
:49:12. > :49:15.spending and if you take these numbers or the Labour Party numbers
:49:16. > :49:19.we are looking at an increase over the next five years which up this
:49:20. > :49:25.tight period is much tighter than the NHS has had over the last 40 or
:49:26. > :49:31.50 years on average. The difference between the two is you could not put
:49:32. > :49:36.much between them. Social care is very complicated, what you make of
:49:37. > :49:40.the changes proposed? It is pretty complex and we need to compare what
:49:41. > :49:45.they are proposing with the world we are in and their own legislation
:49:46. > :49:51.from a couple of years ago which was going to change things more
:49:52. > :49:57.substantially. Where we are, this is going to be helpful to people going
:49:58. > :50:01.into residential care because they will not lose everything down to
:50:02. > :50:05.23,000, they will lose everything down to 100,000, that will leave
:50:06. > :50:08.people with something behind but for some people who are having council
:50:09. > :50:13.paid care in their home at the moment they will have to start
:50:14. > :50:20.paying for that but importantly the payment comes from the estate, not
:50:21. > :50:25.upfront. Saw the taxpayer through the local council continues to pay
:50:26. > :50:32.and then gets refunded after the person has died? That is my
:50:33. > :50:35.understanding. You are racking up an account against the value of your
:50:36. > :50:41.house and if you don't have a house you get the social care anyway. That
:50:42. > :50:48.is my understanding of how it works, the people who pay in the end are
:50:49. > :50:55.the people who will inherit less otherwise than they would have done.
:50:56. > :50:57.My understanding from the Labour manifesto was the simply talked
:50:58. > :51:04.about the amount of extra money they would spend on social care. I did
:51:05. > :51:07.not look at it in detail but I did not understand them to have
:51:08. > :51:14.significantly changed the structure of social care. Would this be a risk
:51:15. > :51:20.with the elderly vote which is pretty solidly Tory? One, it always
:51:21. > :51:27.turns out, the way younger people don't quite, and it does skew
:51:28. > :51:33.strongly Tory, if it's complicated, it may be hard to explain what you
:51:34. > :51:38.have in store. I think it might be difficult to explain, there are some
:51:39. > :51:41.trade-offs here, you see it through the manifesto. The Conservatives are
:51:42. > :51:47.saying we would spend more on social care because we will protect more of
:51:48. > :51:53.the assets of people bound to about 100,000 but they are actually saying
:51:54. > :52:00.we will paper that by reducing the winter fuel allowance. Does that
:52:01. > :52:06.save a lot? Billion and a half. You will still get it? We don't know but
:52:07. > :52:13.I assume those who are still on pension credit, the poor persons.
:52:14. > :52:16.That's my understanding but we don't have the details. But there are
:52:17. > :52:22.choices in each bit in terms of saying we will stop free school
:52:23. > :52:26.meals for 5-6 -year-olds and give free breakfasts to all primary
:52:27. > :52:31.school pupils. So you can see choices made. They are taking away
:52:32. > :52:40.hot meals and it's going to be called breakfasts. Muesli, not baked
:52:41. > :52:45.beans? I am struggling to understand the social care line and the fact
:52:46. > :52:52.you are both experts and trying to get it together I think it will go
:52:53. > :52:58.over very badly. When will we get your analysis of the Tory manifesto
:52:59. > :53:03.tax and spend? We are having an event on Tuesday where we will go
:53:04. > :53:08.through all the manifestos. I will see you there, thank you. Our guest
:53:09. > :53:13.of the day Armando Ianucci is perhaps best known as the creator of
:53:14. > :53:16.the political sire The Thick Of It, but judging by the evidence from the
:53:17. > :53:22.last three weeks of this campaign, it seems it was more fact than
:53:23. > :53:29.fiction. Have you heard the big news about Jeremy Paxman? How much with
:53:30. > :53:38.10,000 police officers cost? We believe about ?300,000. ?300,000,
:53:39. > :53:42.10,000 police officers? If you ask a journalist to avoid the topic that
:53:43. > :53:46.is when they go for it, it's like telling the school bully you will
:53:47. > :53:55.wet yourself if you tickle me. How many people would this give a pay
:53:56. > :54:04.rise to? A couple, I would confess. Any piercings? You have got some
:54:05. > :54:09.piercings. Earrings! I've got pierced ears! You have nurses going
:54:10. > :54:14.to food banks, that must be wrong. There are many complex reasons why
:54:15. > :54:20.people go to food banks. This is Jeremy Paxman, what will you do when
:54:21. > :54:24.he pulls that big rubbery horse face of mock incredulity at you? At the
:54:25. > :54:33.end of parliament it will be lower than it is today. Using what metric?
:54:34. > :54:39.It would be lower in absolute terms, you'll add every year. He is like an
:54:40. > :54:46.enormous check-in. One of the solution packages, my solution...
:54:47. > :54:54.What is the deficit at the moment? If I can say to you... You don't
:54:55. > :54:58.know. What is the deficit at the moment? It sounded like someone was
:54:59. > :55:06.passingly a bit of paper. Not that all. Even though everyone knows they
:55:07. > :55:11.have links with sweatshops? You did not answer when they asked if you
:55:12. > :55:17.thought gay sex was a sin. I have been asked this a lot. Try and get
:55:18. > :55:28.Peter to do something inoffensive. How much is ages to costing. ?32
:55:29. > :55:34.billion. Not 52 billion? You are here to here. I did meet President
:55:35. > :55:40.Assad. You celebrated his re-election. That is what the
:55:41. > :55:46.reception was for, to celebrate his re-election. Why have you got wet
:55:47. > :55:51.trousers? There was no clear manifesto for what happened on our
:55:52. > :55:56.membership to the single market. The Remain campaign said we would leave
:55:57. > :56:05.it if we voted out. I am sorry but we have to leave it there. CHUCKLES
:56:06. > :56:07.That last one is amazing, even that did not happen in the The Thick Of
:56:08. > :56:22.It. I am joined now by John McTernan, is
:56:23. > :56:27.life imitating art? It is to an extent, I worked for Henry McLeish
:56:28. > :56:34.in Scotland and he once stood up in Parliament and said this is not
:56:35. > :56:38.rocket fuel. People have been making mistakes as long as there has been
:56:39. > :56:43.politics. The beauty of the The Thick Of It is that it became right
:56:44. > :56:48.indistinguishable. We did not swear as much but it described the panic
:56:49. > :56:52.and frustration, the politicians in front of camera are the talent and
:56:53. > :56:57.when they are in front of the camera at the advisor can do nothing.
:56:58. > :57:04.Except in the case of the Lib Dems. Even you did not scrap that bit
:57:05. > :57:09.where a politician is hauled out. We would sometimes reject ideas because
:57:10. > :57:15.it was too fantastic. What did you think when you saw the tape, if you
:57:16. > :57:19.wear, if you are not who you are, if you are just an ordinary voter you
:57:20. > :57:24.would not know what was The Thick Of It and what was the interview? Thank
:57:25. > :57:31.you very much. We based on what we see. You can take a tape from ten
:57:32. > :57:34.years ago political interviews and compile something as much a
:57:35. > :57:40.catastrophe as you watch now. In many respects we have a bit of
:57:41. > :57:44.sympathy for the politician in that they are expected to be absolutely
:57:45. > :57:48.coherent and number ready and fact ready at any time of day or night
:57:49. > :57:52.and it's quite an impossible imposition to put on them. In which
:57:53. > :57:58.case it may be better to say I don't know. That's the thing, politicians
:57:59. > :58:04.to scored well with the public are the ones who own up more readily.
:58:05. > :58:10.Also now compare to 20 years ago there are more opportunities to trip
:58:11. > :58:13.up, more news channels, more channels, more political programmes,
:58:14. > :58:19.big interviews used to be few and far between but they are commonplace
:58:20. > :58:23.now. That is true that equally the more interviews the do the more
:58:24. > :58:26.practice you should be getting, political interviews are a genre.
:58:27. > :58:32.Coming on to your show and not knowing the facts is like painting a
:58:33. > :58:39.target on your forehead. You have to actually read the briefing. I have
:58:40. > :58:42.heard the story, people went to Diane Abbott before she did her
:58:43. > :58:46.media rounds and said he is the briefing note and she said I don't
:58:47. > :58:51.need it, I have got the political lines. You have to do your homework.
:58:52. > :58:57.Anderson the interviewer has done their homework. The problem is we
:58:58. > :59:02.are all journalists, it's not just TV interviews any more. Thank you
:59:03. > :59:05.very much John McTernan and Armando Ianucci.
:59:06. > :59:10.The One O'clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
:59:11. > :59:12.I'll be on BBC One tonight with Michael Portillo,
:59:13. > :59:16.Ed Balls, James Delingpole, Miranda Green, Nahalie Bennett,
:59:17. > :59:18.Polly McKenzie and the rapper Doc Brown on This Week
:59:19. > :59:24.And Jo will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories