:00:37. > :00:40.Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.In the last half-hour, Theresa May U-turns on social care
:00:45. > :00:47.funding, announcing a big change to her manifesto after political
:00:48. > :00:50.opponents labelled her plan a 'dementia tax'.
:00:51. > :00:58.Labour announces it would scrap university tuition fees for students
:00:59. > :01:03.in England this year if it wins the election.
:01:04. > :01:08.The Green Party launches its manifesto for England and Wales,
:01:09. > :01:11.promising a universal basic income, a four-day working week, and a final
:01:12. > :01:17.And the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon comes under pressure over funding
:01:18. > :01:20.for the NHS in Scotland from a nurse.
:01:21. > :01:27.Come in on the middle of any day, to any ward, any A department.
:01:28. > :01:36.Come on in and see what we're up against.
:01:37. > :01:41.All that in the next hour, and with me for the whole
:01:42. > :01:43.of the programme today, the former Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa
:01:44. > :01:45.Villiers, who was also a leading Conservative campaigner for Brexit
:01:46. > :01:49.And Chuka Umunna, who was a leading light in Ed Miliband's shadow
:01:50. > :01:52.cabinet until he joined Labour's backbenches under Jeremy Corbyn.
:01:53. > :01:59.Let's kick off with the continuing fall-out from Theresa May's
:02:00. > :02:01.election manifesto, and in particular her plans
:02:02. > :02:04.for changing the way in which elderly people pay for care
:02:05. > :02:14.The Conservative manifesto promised that the state will pay these costs
:02:15. > :02:17.once an individual's assets dip below ?100,000.
:02:18. > :02:20.But the policy has come under fire from political opponents,
:02:21. > :02:23.who have variously described the plan as a 'death tax'
:02:24. > :02:29.and a 'dementia tax', because old people who need care
:02:30. > :02:33.wouldn't have their overall costs capped.
:02:34. > :02:35.Well, in the last half-an-hour Theresa May has been
:02:36. > :02:37.speaking in North Wales, where she announced her social care
:02:38. > :02:40.plans would now include consulting on a life-time cap on how much
:02:41. > :02:43.individuals would pay for their own care.
:02:44. > :02:47.So I want to make a further point clear.
:02:48. > :02:52.This manifesto says that we will come forward
:02:53. > :02:54.with a consultation paper, a Government green paper,
:02:55. > :02:58.and that consultation will include an absolute limit on the amount
:02:59. > :03:00.people have to pay for their care costs.
:03:01. > :03:12.So let me reiterate - we are proposing the right funding
:03:13. > :03:15.We will make sure nobody has to sell their family
:03:16. > :03:18.home to pay for care, we'll make sure there is an absolute
:03:19. > :03:21.limit on what people need to pay, and you will never have to go below
:03:22. > :03:24.?100,000 of your savings, so you will always have something
:03:25. > :03:35.She has folded, it took 24 hours for her to perform a miraculous U-turn
:03:36. > :03:39.on one of her key policies on how social care will be funded in the
:03:40. > :03:43.future. The Prime Minister has obviously listened to the concerns
:03:44. > :03:47.people raised and I think the introduction of a cap is a welcome
:03:48. > :03:51.clarification of this set of proposals. We do need to reform the
:03:52. > :03:56.way social care is delivered and funded. The greatest threats to our
:03:57. > :03:58.ability to safeguard people in their old age is actually a weak economy
:03:59. > :04:14.and that is what we would get if we elected
:04:15. > :04:16.Jeremy Corbyn of Prime Minister and put him in charge of Brexit
:04:17. > :04:18.negotiations. You call it a clarification, it was not a
:04:19. > :04:21.clarification, it was a complete about turn. There was no mention in
:04:22. > :04:24.the manifesto, just a couple of days ago, off their being a cap on the
:04:25. > :04:28.cost you could pay if you had over ?100,000, there was just a floor.
:04:29. > :04:33.This is a significant announcement... Was it the wrong
:04:34. > :04:39.policy in the manifesto? I think it proved with the clarification that
:04:40. > :04:43.cap will be consulted on. I think that was an important element of
:04:44. > :04:47.previous debates over social care so I welcome the announcement today and
:04:48. > :04:50.I believe that there will be many people out there who will also
:04:51. > :04:54.welcome it. Although it was very clear it was a break with previous
:04:55. > :04:59.stated Government policy that did say there should be a cap, and she
:05:00. > :05:03.went against that, so why has she changed her mind? Because she has
:05:04. > :05:15.listened to the concerns expressed about how the policy was set out in
:05:16. > :05:17.the manifesto she has made a significant change, which I think
:05:18. > :05:20.many people will welcome. It was called and hailed a dementia tax,
:05:21. > :05:23.which is true, it was a world of the dice, if you were unfortunate enough
:05:24. > :05:26.to get dementia in old age and at Ascot over ?100,000, you could see
:05:27. > :05:29.all a bit potentially go, if you did not get dementia but another illness
:05:30. > :05:34.treated on the NHS, even if you had valuable assets you did not pay
:05:35. > :05:38.anything? I don't think it is fair to characterise the proposals as a
:05:39. > :05:41.dementia tax. The reality is people already paid for their social
:05:42. > :05:47.care... It doesn't include their house in the calculation, does it?
:05:48. > :05:49.As I say, everything depends on a strong economy, only Theresa May and
:05:50. > :06:11.the Conservatives can deliver a strong economy and a
:06:12. > :06:13.successful Brexit. If we jeopardise that we won't be able to care for
:06:14. > :06:16.our frail elderly population. Chuka Umunna, it was not that long ago
:06:17. > :06:19.that Gordon Brown suggested a very similar policy that was dubbed a
:06:20. > :06:21.death tax, you may say very unfairly by the Conservatives at the time,
:06:22. > :06:24.with a maximum of ?20,000 paid after a person died to pay for the social
:06:25. > :06:27.care a person may have used when they were alive, so what was the
:06:28. > :06:29.problem? At the problem with this was there was no cap, as under the
:06:30. > :06:32.original plans. I'm sorry, this idea that somehow the Conservatives,
:06:33. > :06:35.people have sat in the Conservative cabinet since 2010, have been good
:06:36. > :06:40.for social care, Theresa, what you have done for social care in my area
:06:41. > :06:45.is absolutely criminal. What has happened is they have heavily,
:06:46. > :06:47.heavily cut the budget of local authorities, which has meant in turn
:06:48. > :06:51.they have not been able to provide the social care we need. That has
:06:52. > :06:55.had a knock-on effect on the NHS because it meant more older people
:06:56. > :06:59.going to A and when they go into hospital less likely to come out
:07:00. > :07:10.because there is nowhere for them to go afterwards,
:07:11. > :07:14.that is the reality of what you have done since 2010 and the only way we
:07:15. > :07:16.can resolve this, first of all decent integrated care for elderly
:07:17. > :07:19.people which looks after their mental, physical and social needs
:07:20. > :07:21.together, and we all have to make a contribution, but the idea that you
:07:22. > :07:23.dump the entire burden of setting out your social care with the
:07:24. > :07:27.families concerned without the rest of society playing a role, that is
:07:28. > :07:31.what your proposal originally was going to do, and this strong and
:07:32. > :07:35.stable Government... Let Theresa answer because that was the reality,
:07:36. > :07:42.that it was an inheritance tax, I think Ukip dubbed it a Conservative
:07:43. > :07:45.death tax, an inheritance tax on anything over ?100,000? The reality
:07:46. > :07:50.is people already contribute to the cost of their social care, that is
:07:51. > :07:52.not changing as a result of the proposals in the Conservative
:07:53. > :07:57.manifesto. But there was not a cap will stop one of the key reasons for
:07:58. > :08:01.the pressure on social care is we are an ageing society. Theresa May
:08:02. > :08:07.will take tough decisions to put that funding on a sustainable basis.
:08:08. > :08:11.You have taken away the funding. What is crucial to doing that is a
:08:12. > :08:14.strong economy which we will not get if Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister
:08:15. > :08:19.and in charge of Brexit negotiations. You must ring one of
:08:20. > :08:23.the MPs who voted no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn... Theresa bilious, we
:08:24. > :08:28.are talking about the social care policy. Let me tell you something, I
:08:29. > :08:32.always have far more confident in my Labour Party than your Tory party.
:08:33. > :08:36.What is the cap that Labour would put in, because it is not clear from
:08:37. > :08:49.your manifesto? It is true that Theresa May
:08:50. > :08:54.has now said she has changed her mind, there will be a lifetime cap
:08:55. > :08:56.on costs, but what is the cap in the Labour manifesto? There is no cap in
:08:57. > :08:59.the Labour manifesto because we would do this differently. We would
:09:00. > :09:02.put more money in social care... If you look at the social care policy
:09:03. > :09:05.in the Labour manifesto, you would also have a floor and a cap, so in
:09:06. > :09:08.that sense it is the same. I don't know what the cap is but the
:09:09. > :09:09.difference is, would we take away the funding from local authorities
:09:10. > :09:13.which provide social care for people? How much money would you put
:09:14. > :09:18.back into local authorities? One thing I would agree with Theresa on
:09:19. > :09:21.is we have a different economic policy and basically wouldn't
:09:22. > :09:25.massacre public services. Look at Lambeth, where I have been
:09:26. > :09:29.representing, it will mean our local authority will have decent funding
:09:30. > :09:32.to provide the care elderly people in my community need, that would be
:09:33. > :09:36.ripped away under the Conservatives and we see a role for society,
:09:37. > :09:41.family, all of us playing our part rather than having the entire burden
:09:42. > :09:45.sitting with their family. I know you don't know an exact cap, that is
:09:46. > :09:49.fine, we now know Theresa May hasn't said what the cap would be, but it
:09:50. > :09:52.does say in the Labour manifesto, we would seek consensus on a
:09:53. > :09:57.cross-party basis about how social care should be funded with options
:09:58. > :10:01.including wealth taxes, employer care contribution or a new social
:10:02. > :10:06.care levy, so you are looking at the same options that Theresa May has
:10:07. > :10:11.now clarified, to use your words? Well, we don't quite know what she
:10:12. > :10:16.is proposing. What would you prefer out of the Labour manifesto? We are
:10:17. > :10:19.looking at a range of options, I like the proposals put forward by
:10:20. > :10:25.Andrew Deal not, who tried to come up with a cross-party solution on
:10:26. > :10:29.this. Ultimately, one Government would be able to make a decision on
:10:30. > :10:32.the future of social care, it will be a multiple Government thing which
:10:33. > :10:38.is why we need to build a consensus on it. Let's go back to the issue of
:10:39. > :10:41.leadership, the point is there is nothing strong or stable about the
:10:42. > :10:45.leadership that Theresa May has shown when it has come to this
:10:46. > :10:48.social care policy, because it looked like it was hurting their
:10:49. > :10:57.election prospects, she has changed the policy, a U-turn. I would not
:10:58. > :11:00.characterise it like that at all. She is the right person to be Prime
:11:01. > :11:04.Minister and lead Brexit negotiations. If she was so strong,
:11:05. > :11:07.why has she felt the need to change the policy? Because she has listen
:11:08. > :11:12.to concerns that people have expressed over the weekend, it is
:11:13. > :11:16.right that she does that, Prime Minister is entitled to listen to
:11:17. > :11:20.concerns expressed about policy. And all of the stress and worry they
:11:21. > :11:35.have caused older people. People have a choice, on the 9th of
:11:36. > :11:39.June, do they want Jeremy Corbyn standing on the steps of Downing
:11:40. > :11:41.Street, or Theresa May? 11 days after that we start Brexit
:11:42. > :11:43.negotiations... I know you want to talk about Brexit but this is a big
:11:44. > :11:45.policy change that has been announced today. Let's see how it is
:11:46. > :11:45.playing with voters. Adam has taken the Daily Politics
:11:46. > :11:48.moodbox to Birmingham. Adam, what's the moodbox
:11:49. > :11:56.question today? Greetings from a slightly breezy
:11:57. > :11:59.Birmingham, I apologise if you can hear any dreading or dilling. The
:12:00. > :12:03.question is, before the Prime Minister did her speech today, is
:12:04. > :12:07.which party leader do you trust to sort out the issue of adult social
:12:08. > :12:12.care, is it Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn? Worth remembering Jeremy
:12:13. > :12:17.Corbyn's policy proposal is an extra 8 billion on social care by the end
:12:18. > :12:20.of the next parliament and in the longer term to set up this social
:12:21. > :12:27.care policy. Here is what the brumbies had to say about the issue.
:12:28. > :12:29.-- what the Brummies had to say. Do you care about the issue
:12:30. > :12:32.of care for the elderly? But you wouldn't need it
:12:33. > :12:37.for about another 60 years? Which party leader do
:12:38. > :12:40.you trust to look after Because, like, the Labour manifesto,
:12:41. > :12:46.it's laid out well, it's costed well and it's done in a way that reflects
:12:47. > :12:50.nicely on most of society and gives older people and young
:12:51. > :12:52.people both a chance. Unlike the Tories, that
:12:53. > :12:54.have their weird death tax thing, Have you been sent
:12:55. > :12:57.here by Labour HQ? What do you think about their plans
:12:58. > :13:00.for the whole ?100,000, including a house in the means
:13:01. > :13:03.test for care? But, at the end of the day,
:13:04. > :13:10.we've got a purse within which we have to live
:13:11. > :13:12.in, and we have to cut There's not endless
:13:13. > :13:15.amounts of money. Yes, it's going to
:13:16. > :13:16.disadvantage some people. But, ultimately, as a society,
:13:17. > :13:19.I think we have to get Which party leader do you trust
:13:20. > :13:23.to look after your grandparents Care for older people,
:13:24. > :13:31.the massive story at the moment. Some people are calling
:13:32. > :13:33.it the dementia tax, Well, I don't think
:13:34. > :13:39.they're going to... I don't think it'll
:13:40. > :13:44.happen at all, really. I've got friends that work
:13:45. > :13:48.in adult social care, We tried to get care for somebody
:13:49. > :13:53.in my family and it hasn't really worked out because of the cuts
:13:54. > :13:55.that we've had. Do you think this is going to affect
:13:56. > :13:58.the outcome of the election? You can see there's
:13:59. > :14:04.a swing towards Labour. But I don't think it will be big
:14:05. > :14:07.enough to beat the Conservatives. When it really comes down to it,
:14:08. > :14:25.I think a lot of people have an altruistic view,
:14:26. > :14:27.except when they have Who do you trust to sort out
:14:28. > :14:31.care for the elderly? Because I don't trust
:14:32. > :14:35.a Conservative. Because I think he's
:14:36. > :14:39.a more genuine guy. This whole issue about care
:14:40. > :14:41.for older people, has it What did you think of
:14:42. > :14:49.the system that was in place? Do you think it'll ever
:14:50. > :14:52.get fixed, the system, Well, it's totally unscientific,
:14:53. > :14:59.but it looks as if a big majority of people think Jeremy Corbyn
:15:00. > :15:15.is the person who can sort out Thank you, Adam. Unscientific, but
:15:16. > :15:19.anecdotally, Corbyn on the side of the elderly and the Tories and
:15:20. > :15:24.Theresa May not. Was it just too complacent to bring out a proposal
:15:25. > :15:28.like the social care one that was half baked? Well, the motivation
:15:29. > :15:32.behind the proposal was too but social care on a sustainable
:15:33. > :15:36.financial basis. -- to put social care on a sustainable financial
:15:37. > :15:40.basis. This is a real contest, it is not easy to predict the outcome of
:15:41. > :15:46.the election. Was it complacent? Should she not have put out a policy
:15:47. > :15:50.that was going to be controversial at the least, brave at best? What
:15:51. > :15:54.people should draw from this is that the protest vote for Labour or the
:15:55. > :15:57.Lib Dems involves a real risk that Jeremy Corbyn will be our Prime
:15:58. > :16:02.Minister. Did it help that your party didn't come clean about which
:16:03. > :16:10.pensioners would be affected by means testing the winter fuel
:16:11. > :16:14.allowance? I don't think... That is obviously an issue that we will need
:16:15. > :16:19.to address as part of a consultation on how to implement these proposals,
:16:20. > :16:22.if we are re-elected. That consultation will look at the level
:16:23. > :16:29.at which arrangements on the winter fuel payments are correlated. You
:16:30. > :16:34.say this so casually. More than 7000 older people in the constituency I
:16:35. > :16:37.have been representing since 2010, about 72% of older people could be
:16:38. > :16:42.affected by what you are talking about. You're just casually talking
:16:43. > :16:49.about these things, oh, well, we can sort it. Why should wealthy
:16:50. > :16:53.pensioners get those allowances? Hang on... Well, answer that
:16:54. > :16:58.question. I'm answering the question. If you look at what Labour
:16:59. > :17:02.had been proposing in the last general election, yes, more wealthy
:17:03. > :17:06.pensioners will be affected by this. You are talking about 72% of old age
:17:07. > :17:10.pensioners that receive the winter fuel allowance. Hang on, they
:17:11. > :17:15.haven't put a limit. What should it be said at? Until you put a limit,
:17:16. > :17:19.or say where the means test is going to fall, a bit like the social care
:17:20. > :17:25.policy, people will think it is going to affect them. In due course,
:17:26. > :17:30.if we are re-elected, we will set out a threshold. Should it have been
:17:31. > :17:34.done in the manifesto? You know, it's not a decision that was taken
:17:35. > :17:41.easily. But the reality is that we need, in an era where resources are
:17:42. > :17:47.limited by the deficit, that we inherited in 2010, we need to make
:17:48. > :17:51.sure that we spend taxpayer money... Are you really blaming Labour for
:17:52. > :17:55.something that happened in 2010? We left government seven years ago, and
:17:56. > :17:59.your mug has borrowed more in that seven years than the Labour
:18:00. > :18:03.Government did in 13 years. You were proposing the same bringing down of
:18:04. > :18:06.the deficit as happened under the Conservatives and coalition? We
:18:07. > :18:10.would have achieved our target. Well, we won't know, of course.
:18:11. > :18:13.Vicki Young is where the Prime Minister was giving his speech. How
:18:14. > :18:18.has it gone down, the big change and you turn on social care policy, not
:18:19. > :18:24.just a floor of ?100,000 in care costs, but now there is going to be
:18:25. > :18:29.a cap? Yes, pretty incredible stuff. Just four days after the
:18:30. > :18:33.Conservative manifesto was launched, Theresa May is urging us to look at
:18:34. > :18:38.page 65. She says there is no change, well, that is not the way I
:18:39. > :18:40.see it. If you look here, you can see in this document that they talk
:18:41. > :18:44.about the fact your house will be taken into account, they talk about
:18:45. > :18:49.deferred payments, they talk about the fact you will be able to keep
:18:50. > :18:58.?100,000, ultimately. No mention of a cap. That is such a fundamental
:18:59. > :19:00.part of this kind of policy. It is not like work has not been done on
:19:01. > :19:03.this. There have been numerous reports into social care and the way
:19:04. > :19:06.that you can fund it in a different way. Caps have been talked about,
:19:07. > :19:12.David Cameron was due to bring in a cap of ?72,000 in 2020. No mention
:19:13. > :19:15.of that in this document. Theresa May, insisting nothing has changed,
:19:16. > :19:18.the principal stay the same and she is going to tackle the issue of
:19:19. > :19:22.social care, because everybody agrees more money needs to go in the
:19:23. > :19:26.system. Instead, she has accused Jeremy Corbyn and Labour of
:19:27. > :19:29.spreading fake claims, fear and scaremongering over people losing
:19:30. > :19:32.their homes. Everybody is free to read this document, everybody will
:19:33. > :19:38.look at that and see that there was no mention of a cap. The fact that
:19:39. > :19:41.yesterday Damian Green, her pension secretary, said there would be no
:19:42. > :19:45.rowing back from these proposals, that they had been decided. Was the
:19:46. > :19:49.fact that she hadn't really consulted many of her ministers a
:19:50. > :19:53.problem, in terms of putting out what her critics have called a half
:19:54. > :19:59.baked policy that ended up looking like a dementia tax? Yes, that is
:20:00. > :20:02.the criticism from some in the party, that she has very close
:20:03. > :20:09.advisers, that she relies on them too heavily, rather than talking to
:20:10. > :20:13.some Cabinet ministers around her. Damian Green not just saying there
:20:14. > :20:17.would be no rowing back, he criticised the idea of a cap. What
:20:18. > :20:21.she is saying, although I have to say, she sounded very rattled, she
:20:22. > :20:26.sounded under pressure and she does not usually. She has made such a big
:20:27. > :20:29.deal in this campaign about being strong, stable, any kind of U-turn
:20:30. > :20:33.or significant change like this is going to be absolutely seized upon
:20:34. > :20:38.by her opponents. She will say it is all about taking tough decisions and
:20:39. > :20:45.she will say she has been willing to tackle an issue many others have not
:20:46. > :20:46.been willing to do. Thank you. I am joined by two top-notch political
:20:47. > :20:53.journalists. correspondent for the Telegraph,
:20:54. > :21:02.and Jim Waterson, political editor We have been looking for campaign
:21:03. > :21:06.drama for a while. Now we have a screeching U-turn from Theresa May.
:21:07. > :21:09.I don't think she expected this. Talking to Tory MPs, they were
:21:10. > :21:13.saying on the doorstep that this was actually coming up. They are a bit
:21:14. > :21:16.rattled. The text messages I have been getting from people in marginal
:21:17. > :21:20.seats, we are confident we are going to destroy Jeremy Corbyn, take seats
:21:21. > :21:23.we have never taken before, suddenly there were dealing with pensioners
:21:24. > :21:26.that were really concerned. People didn't necessarily know what the
:21:27. > :21:29.policy was, they didn't like what they heard about it. They didn't
:21:30. > :21:32.know the details, but they didn't like the idea that somebody was
:21:33. > :21:37.going to get hold of their house and it was not going to be their kids.
:21:38. > :21:40.Presumably, it was because they made a link between tightening the polls
:21:41. > :21:45.over the weekend at the announcement of this policy on Thursday? Yes. It
:21:46. > :21:56.was not a good weekend for the Tories. Everybody has been boasting
:21:57. > :21:59.about how well they are doing, but this week we saw, over the weekend,
:22:00. > :22:01.that they only have a 9-point lead. That's the first time it has been a
:22:02. > :22:04.single number since Theresa May announced the snap poll. I think
:22:05. > :22:07.they got pretty nervous. We will always expecting a bit of a wobble
:22:08. > :22:09.at some point. I think a lot of candidates were thinking like
:22:10. > :22:12.Theresa May was being a bit cocky. They knew they were doing well, they
:22:13. > :22:14.kind of thought, let's go for it, let's go out there. All of the polls
:22:15. > :22:18.over the weekend, specifically on the dementia tax, as shown it is
:22:19. > :22:21.unpopular and Labour are doing better. They have the key message
:22:22. > :22:29.out there. They have used the phrase dementia tax and it has been
:22:30. > :22:31.incredibly damaging. If we look at other issues, Jeremy Corbyn came
:22:32. > :22:35.under fire over the weekend for his association with the IRA and he
:22:36. > :22:38.refused to condemn IRA bombing without equating to other parties.
:22:39. > :22:44.Does his position on Security and defence negatively impact on the
:22:45. > :22:46.retail offers that Labour was making? There are problems,
:22:47. > :22:51.certainly in the seats where they are fighting with the Tories, the
:22:52. > :22:53.Midlands and the North. While the interesting things with the IRA and
:22:54. > :22:59.Jeremy Corbyn is the way the has developed. If you are under 40,
:23:00. > :23:02.perhaps you associate the IRA and things like that more with the Good
:23:03. > :23:06.Friday agreement and the peace process, so it is less of a toxic
:23:07. > :23:08.association. For a lot of older voters, the sort of people the
:23:09. > :23:11.Conservatives need to get onside, that is where it hits home.
:23:12. > :23:18.Depending on the generational gap, it is behaving slightly differently.
:23:19. > :23:23.What about Labour's university tuition fees policy. How popular is
:23:24. > :23:26.that? I think it will be very popular. Labour are clearly
:23:27. > :23:30.targeting the younger generation. That is where Mr Corbyn's supporters
:23:31. > :23:33.are from, mainly. They are saying they're going to scrap them
:23:34. > :23:37.entirely, from September there will be scrapped so that students do not
:23:38. > :23:40.deferred. It is going to be popular with young people and we know that
:23:41. > :23:47.young people are who Jeremy Corbyn is targeting. But do they vote? Good
:23:48. > :23:50.question. Today is the final day to get people to register to vote, and
:23:51. > :23:58.there is a reason why they announced today. Normally, people are going to
:23:59. > :24:01.benefit in the next generation. Now you can say, vote Labour, get your
:24:02. > :24:05.education for free. This was supposed to be the Brexit election,
:24:06. > :24:09.as Theresa May build it, she returned to that theme today, no
:24:10. > :24:14.doubt to distract from the change on social care policy. She was the one
:24:15. > :24:18.that decided to make it about public services, to a large extent. Is her
:24:19. > :24:25.decision broadly parking her tanks and Labour's lawn, backfiring? Well,
:24:26. > :24:31.Labour is gaining in the polls. The Tories still have a massive lead.
:24:32. > :24:36.There are a lot of issues around the campaign, polls tend to swing back
:24:37. > :24:40.to the government. It's hard to argue that Jeremy Corbyn has not had
:24:41. > :24:44.a surprisingly good campaign in the eyes of a lot of people, but still
:24:45. > :24:48.has a long way to make up. Theresa May would be much happier if this
:24:49. > :24:51.was all about Jeremy Corbyn, and about Brexit, than things like
:24:52. > :24:53.social care. That is what we are seeing today. Thank you to both of
:24:54. > :24:58.you. Now, as we've just been hearing,
:24:59. > :25:01.Jeremy Corbyn's attitude to the IRA So when it comes to the Labour
:25:02. > :25:05.leader and other members of his inner circle,
:25:06. > :25:07.what exactly is their record As a backbencher in the 1980s,
:25:08. > :25:13.Mr Corbyn was criticised for his activities with the controversial
:25:14. > :25:15.Troops Out movement, which campaigned to end British
:25:16. > :25:17.military involvement in Northern He's also been questioned
:25:18. > :25:20.about his links to a magazine called London Labour Briefing,
:25:21. > :25:22.which in 1984 published an article celebrating
:25:23. > :25:24.the IRA's Brighton bombing, In the 1980s, during some
:25:25. > :25:32.of the most violent years of the Troubles, Mr Corbyn
:25:33. > :25:34.and the current Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell
:25:35. > :25:36.met the IRA on a number They said the meetings
:25:37. > :25:42.were part of their attempt The IRA declared
:25:43. > :25:46.a ceasefire in 1994. Diane Abbott, now Shadow Home
:25:47. > :25:48.Secretary, has been criticised for comments she made in a 1984
:25:49. > :25:51.interview, when she proclaimed "Every defeat
:25:52. > :25:53.of the British state... Then, in 2003, John McDonnell
:25:54. > :26:02.praised the "bombs and bullets...that brought Britain
:26:03. > :26:04.to the negotiating table," comments Well, yesterday Mr Corbyn was asked
:26:05. > :26:09.again about the IRA, and refused five times to condemn
:26:10. > :26:12.them specifically for their role in the Troubles, saying only that
:26:13. > :26:16."all bombing is wrong". Let's hear a section
:26:17. > :26:18.of that interview. Do you condemn
:26:19. > :26:21.unequivocally the IRA? But you condemned
:26:22. > :26:28.all bombing, there. Can you condemn the IRA
:26:29. > :26:33.without equating it to... No, I think what you have to say
:26:34. > :26:36.is that all bombing has to be condemned and you have to bring
:26:37. > :26:38.about a peace process... Wait a minute, can you
:26:39. > :26:42.let me finish, please? In the 1980s, Britain was looking
:26:43. > :26:45.for a military solution in Ireland. Ask anyone in the British
:26:46. > :26:49.Army at that time. Therefore, you have
:26:50. > :26:53.to seek a peace process. You condemn the violence of those
:26:54. > :26:56.that laid bombs that killed large numbers of innocent people,
:26:57. > :27:00.and I do. So can you condemn the IRA,
:27:01. > :27:02.who were responsible... I've just condemned all those
:27:03. > :27:05.that did bombing... If you let me finish
:27:06. > :27:19.as well, after I've just... Chuka Umunna, your leader had five
:27:20. > :27:21.opportunities in that interview to condemn the IRA specifically and he
:27:22. > :27:27.refused to do so. Was that a mistake? Anybody watching the clip
:27:28. > :27:32.will have seen him condemn the IRA and all bombing. I am very clear,
:27:33. > :27:38.unequivocally, the bombing and all of the violence which they brought
:27:39. > :27:43.upon the whole of the UK is totally, totally awful and an acceptable. I
:27:44. > :27:46.think that is basically what he said, whilst also talking about the
:27:47. > :27:50.loyalists and what others did. The problem some people might have, and
:27:51. > :27:55.I'm not saying everybody, some people might have, is his inability,
:27:56. > :27:58.his seeming inability to condemn the IRA. Saying all bombing is wrong,
:27:59. > :28:03.well, everybody would say all bombing is wrong. If you can't
:28:04. > :28:06.condemn the IRA... Do you really think Jeremy Corbyn is somebody who
:28:07. > :28:09.wanted to see death and destruction in Northern Ireland? Are you going
:28:10. > :28:12.to buy the front of the Daily Mail today, Tory supporting papers, the
:28:13. > :28:18.Telegraph, or take at face value what he said? Would it have been
:28:19. > :28:21.easier for him to then, and this was not an interview from years ago,
:28:22. > :28:26.this is yesterday, what was preventing him just saying yes, I
:28:27. > :28:32.condemn the IRA bombing. You will have to ask him that question. But
:28:33. > :28:35.he is the leader of the Labour Party. If you want to talk about the
:28:36. > :28:38.Labour Party in Northern Ireland, I am extremely proud of the record of
:28:39. > :28:44.the last Labour government are helping to bring about peace. And
:28:45. > :28:52.John Major as well. But he was not in that government. I was six when
:28:53. > :28:57.these things were said. You are a young man, but might it be a problem
:28:58. > :29:00.for some voters to listen to an interview like that, Jeremy Corbyn
:29:01. > :29:03.was not part of the government that you were talking about, under Tony
:29:04. > :29:08.Blair, that dealt with the peace process. Is it difficult to sell, as
:29:09. > :29:11.I asked the journalist before, Labour's off on the doorstep if
:29:12. > :29:18.people have reservations about what they might feel is biased towards
:29:19. > :29:21.one side or the other about Northern Ireland, bearing in mind that this
:29:22. > :29:24.man wants to be the next Prime Minister? If you're talking about
:29:25. > :29:27.being biased towards one side or the other, he condemned the IRA and the
:29:28. > :29:31.loyalists. Do you have an issue with the fact that when he was condemn
:29:32. > :29:34.any IRA, he also condemned the loyalists? If that is a big issue
:29:35. > :29:39.for you, that he would not condemn the IRA on its own, I am not sure
:29:40. > :29:43.that for most people this is an issue. I have been on the doorstep,
:29:44. > :29:47.not just my own constituency, but in Birmingham... He was condemning the
:29:48. > :29:51.British Army as well? The issue, which has been known about for a
:29:52. > :29:54.long time, was not brought up. Was this not the point, it is just a
:29:55. > :30:00.convenient weapon with which to attack Jeremy Corbyn? For his past
:30:01. > :30:04.associations with the organisation, with the IRA, to distract from what
:30:05. > :30:08.is actually going on in this election? That is not what is
:30:09. > :30:13.happening here. I met many victims of IRA violence. There will be upset
:30:14. > :30:18.and distressed by the fact that someone is holding himself out as
:30:19. > :30:21.our next Prime Minister, potentially, and will not
:30:22. > :30:24.unequivocally condemn... He condemned all bombing. Didn't he?
:30:25. > :30:28.What is wrong with that? He condemned both sides. Isn't that
:30:29. > :30:30.what you want? Somebody who is impartial, prepared to condemn
:30:31. > :30:41.wrongdoing on both sides? Maybe it wouldn't be such a big
:30:42. > :30:45.problem if he didn't have this track record on these matters and his
:30:46. > :30:50.Shadow Chancellor praised the bombs and bullets of the IRA and yet
:30:51. > :30:54.people are being asked on the 8th of June to trust these people with the
:30:55. > :30:59.security of our nation. Remember Jeremy Corbyn also refers to groups
:31:00. > :31:05.like Hamas and has bomber as his friends. Well, he has said that
:31:06. > :31:11.wasn't the case, even if he used the word Brenkley he was talking more
:31:12. > :31:15.generally about people that were at conferences in the past, not
:31:16. > :31:20.specifically members of Hamas. But, again, Chuka, doesn't it make your
:31:21. > :31:25.job much, much harder if this issue is going to come up time and time
:31:26. > :31:30.again and people are unsure about where Jeremy Corbyn stands? It gets
:31:31. > :31:35.raised time and again in the Telegraph and other Conservative
:31:36. > :31:39.supporting newspapers but people on the doorstep are not asking about
:31:40. > :31:43.the IRA, they are talking about the dementia tax, tuition fees, they
:31:44. > :31:46.like the tuition fees proposals, they have asked about the public
:31:47. > :31:50.sector pay cap which we will abolish, they ask us about many
:31:51. > :31:54.other things. I haven't had anybody bringing up the IRA on the doorstep
:31:55. > :32:00.and that is not just in my constituency but several other
:32:01. > :32:03.regions as well. If Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister, you will have to
:32:04. > :32:12.deal with the British military, he will have to deal with policies in
:32:13. > :32:15.Northern Ireland. On the basis of what Theresa de Villiers said, how
:32:16. > :32:17.difficult will that be with his track record? As I said, you ass
:32:18. > :32:21.with a question, I answered it, it is not an issue on the doorstep. But
:32:22. > :32:23.if he became Prime Minister, how difficult would it be in his
:32:24. > :32:31.dealings with the British military, for example? I think the British
:32:32. > :32:34.military will work with whoever is elected, that is why we have an
:32:35. > :32:38.impartial civil service and an impasse or set of Armed Forces, that
:32:39. > :32:43.is how it should be. Are you not making much more of this, Theresa de
:32:44. > :32:49.Villiers, for party political purposes. Jeremy Corbyn and John
:32:50. > :32:52.McDonnell had meetings with the IRA in the 1980s, perhaps that was
:32:53. > :32:55.far-sighted, we now know that the British Government did it but in
:32:56. > :33:00.secret, so perhaps it made perfect sense because it led to peace?
:33:01. > :33:04.Jeremy Corbyn has a 30 year track record of voting against measures to
:33:05. > :33:07.protect security. When he was asked by a journalist, would he think it
:33:08. > :33:13.was correct for a police officer faced with a gun-wielding terrorist
:33:14. > :33:18.to fire at that terrorist, he wouldn't even support a police
:33:19. > :33:22.officer. He is not capable of dealing in a responsible way with
:33:23. > :33:25.our security service. That is not actually true, if you watch the
:33:26. > :33:29.interview that I think you are referring to with Laura Kuenssberg
:33:30. > :33:32.Cobbe said, if you are going to have police officers using lethal force
:33:33. > :33:36.then there has to be a reference to a set of rules and guidelines under
:33:37. > :33:40.which they do it. Your interpretation there is a deliberate
:33:41. > :33:44.untruths, I would argue. The question that I put to you is, what
:33:45. > :33:53.is wrong with talking to armed dissidents, what is wrong with
:33:54. > :33:55.talking to people that you want to get around the negotiating table?
:33:56. > :33:58.That is what the British Government did so what is the difference? It is
:33:59. > :34:02.clear the IRA and Sinn Fein were not allowed to be included in formal
:34:03. > :34:07.peace talks until they adopted the Mitchell rules and agreed not to
:34:08. > :34:11.resort to violence but the key thing here is who is going to be the Prime
:34:12. > :34:16.Minister who will face got our security? Theresa May have a track
:34:17. > :34:20.record of Home Secretary, one of the most successful in history, the
:34:21. > :34:25.choice is between her keeping our country save or vesting this in the
:34:26. > :34:30.incapable hands of Jeremy Corbyn. The Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams,
:34:31. > :34:33.at the manifesto launch of Sinn Fein, has defended the Labour
:34:34. > :34:41.leader, defended Jeremy Corbyn, following the row that we have been
:34:42. > :34:43.talking about, and that that Mr Corbyn was on the right side of
:34:44. > :34:47.history. If that helpful to the Labour campaign? I don't think
:34:48. > :34:52.people will be seeking the advice of Gerry Adams or anyone else in my
:34:53. > :34:55.constituency as to how they vote. In the end they will look at the
:34:56. > :34:59.policies being offered by the Labour Party, they are popular policies and
:35:00. > :35:04.they will make a judgment. Because this is a difficult area? In the
:35:05. > :35:08.end, when we look at the history of Northern Ireland over the last few
:35:09. > :35:11.decades and much longer, should the Conservative Party be seeking to
:35:12. > :35:20.play party politics in the middle of a general election with this issue
:35:21. > :35:22.when we have seen so many people on both sides lose their lives?
:35:23. > :35:25.Personally I think it is rather distasteful and I don't think they
:35:26. > :35:25.should be doing this. Let's leave it there.
:35:26. > :35:28.Let's get a round-up of all the rest of the election campaign
:35:29. > :35:33.The sun is shining, it is nice and warm but we don't have time for that
:35:34. > :35:36.because there are only 17 campaigning days left of the
:35:37. > :35:39.selection. Another couple of manifestos today but another more
:35:40. > :35:43.urgent deadline looming, the deadline to register to vote, that
:35:44. > :35:47.is at one minute to midnight tonight to do so if you have not done so
:35:48. > :35:52.already, so quick, hurry up! Here is Norman.
:35:53. > :35:58.It is something our ancestors fought and died for, fundamental to our
:35:59. > :36:04.democracy, in the mother of all parliaments, the right to vote. But
:36:05. > :36:08.if that is not reason enough, there is always free beer. Pubs across the
:36:09. > :36:11.country are offering free pints to young people who have registered to
:36:12. > :36:15.vote ahead of the deadline tonight. Here is one user who has taken
:36:16. > :36:19.advantage. Labour board their manifesto was so good that they
:36:20. > :36:24.launched it twice. The Tories did it in a warehouse. The Lib Dems stood
:36:25. > :36:28.on some flags. Today it was the turn of greens, here, unveiling their
:36:29. > :36:34.plans for a softer Brexit. Vote Green for a competent and caring
:36:35. > :36:38.Britain. The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was trying to up the anti on
:36:39. > :36:42.being anti-Tory plans for social care funding suggesting it would
:36:43. > :36:47.affect nine in ten English homes. This is a devastating death tax
:36:48. > :36:51.trumped up on the back of an envelope. It is not often Ukip agree
:36:52. > :36:55.with the Lib Dems on anything. Funnily enough Patrick O'Flynn did
:36:56. > :36:59.not mention the pledge by another Ukip candidate that he would push
:37:00. > :37:03.for asteroid belt mining and a spaceship capable of interstellar
:37:04. > :37:08.travel if he was elected. Do you want housing? Do you want care? They
:37:09. > :37:13.were there to see the libertines, they got this rock star instead. We
:37:14. > :37:18.can achieve it together! Thank you very much!
:37:19. > :37:22.CROWD CHANTS. Whatever happens on June the 8th,
:37:23. > :37:24.there is always Glastonbury. Something to look forward to.
:37:25. > :37:26.And I'll be talking to the Green Party leader
:37:27. > :37:29.Caroline Lucas about her party's manifesto on the programme tomorrow.
:37:30. > :37:31.Now, last night the first Scottish television debate
:37:32. > :37:35.The six party leaders clashed on big issues such as Brexit
:37:36. > :37:39.But it was the question of funding for the NHS that provoked
:37:40. > :37:42.the most fiery exchange, when one member of the audience -
:37:43. > :37:44.a nurse - criticised the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon over
:37:45. > :37:50.We have not heard from Jeremy Corbyn...
:37:51. > :38:08.How do you expect somebody to live on that?
:38:09. > :38:12.Do you think that's what nurses go into nursing for?
:38:13. > :38:17.I'm telling you now, I would rather leave nursing
:38:18. > :38:20.as would many more of my colleagues, than have to strike.
:38:21. > :38:25.You have no idea how demoralising it is to work within the NHS.
:38:26. > :38:30.Don't come on your announced visit, come in on the middle of any
:38:31. > :38:32.day, into any ward, any A department.
:38:33. > :38:43.My sister works in the National Health Service.
:38:44. > :38:51.Believe me, she tells me exactly what she thinks about those matters.
:38:52. > :38:54.If you listen to me, I'm actually agreeing with you.
:38:55. > :38:56.We've had a really difficult period with public spending.
:38:57. > :39:00.We've also, in Scotland, unlike in the rest of the UK,
:39:01. > :39:04.had a policy of no compulsory redundancies in the NHS
:39:05. > :39:13.and the wider public sector to try to protect jobs.
:39:14. > :39:19.I'm joined now by the SNP's Drew Hendry, who is in Inverness for us.
:39:20. > :39:26.Do you have some sympathy with the nurse who was in the audience in
:39:27. > :39:29.that debate? I think, as you heard Nicola Sturgeon saying, she agreed
:39:30. > :39:34.that because of rising inflation, because of the austerity policies
:39:35. > :39:38.that the Tories have been wedded to across the UK, there is
:39:39. > :39:44.unsustainable pressure now on the cost of living, and that
:39:45. > :39:48.inflationary process means that there are already meetings in the
:39:49. > :39:53.staff side of the NHS to look at the issues and Nicola Sturgeon said she
:39:54. > :39:57.was looking to remove that. She is open to looking at it, should nurses
:39:58. > :40:02.be paid more in Scotland or not? Nurses are being paid more in
:40:03. > :40:06.Scotland, ?300 per year roughly compared to nurses in England... I
:40:07. > :40:10.mean, should they be paid more than they are currently in Scotland? If
:40:11. > :40:22.you look at information going up, as it is at the moment across the UK
:40:23. > :40:24.and the affected will on wages, of course, as I have just said, that
:40:25. > :40:26.pay restraint is now unsustainable... You have the power
:40:27. > :40:29.to increase pay for nurses, don't you? That is what we have done in
:40:30. > :40:33.Scotland by making sure nurses are paid more in Scotland than in the
:40:34. > :40:37.NHS... Nicola Sturgeon agreed there that pay has not gone up, she agreed
:40:38. > :40:42.with the nurse who said they have not had a pay rise since 2008. The
:40:43. > :40:48.1% pay cap has been in place for a while, there have been rises in pay
:40:49. > :40:52.but pegged to that 1%... So I say again, you have the power to pay
:40:53. > :40:57.over and above that, why haven't you? Pay restraint has been a
:40:58. > :41:00.necessary effect of the austerity policies from the Tory Government...
:41:01. > :41:12.Not to do with the Government, you have the power to do something
:41:13. > :41:14.different. If you feel that nurses should be paid more, then you have
:41:15. > :41:16.tax-raising powers, health is devolved, you could have done
:41:17. > :41:19.something entirely different. There are a range of people who need to be
:41:20. > :41:23.paid more and the budget that comes to the Scottish Government is meted
:41:24. > :41:27.out in order to make sure we meet the needs of people, employees
:41:28. > :41:31.across the nation. The Scottish Government don't forget built in the
:41:32. > :41:35.real living wage for all public sector employees to make sure people
:41:36. > :41:38.had a decent chance of a good living. That is something that has
:41:39. > :41:41.not happened across England and Wales. We have a proud record of
:41:42. > :41:46.being able to tackle though play whenever it is in our gift and as I
:41:47. > :41:53.said the issue around pay restraint, because of the rising inflation, it
:41:54. > :41:58.looks unsustainable, Nicola Sturgeon said clearly she would do something
:41:59. > :42:03.about it. The nurse said she had to use food banks. Is that acceptable?
:42:04. > :42:07.Despite what you have just read, is it acceptable that a nurse working
:42:08. > :42:12.in the NHS in Scotland have to use a food bank? It is not acceptable that
:42:13. > :42:16.anybody has to use a food bank. But you could do something about it,
:42:17. > :42:20.which you have conceded. Let me just ask the question, you talked about
:42:21. > :42:35.pay restraint and austerity, you blamed the
:42:36. > :42:38.Conservative Government for that and talked about inflation, which makes
:42:39. > :42:41.it sound like the Scottish Government has no power at all and
:42:42. > :42:43.is impotent in terms of trying to alleviate the pressure is on page
:42:44. > :42:46.four people who live in Scotland, why don't you raise income tax if
:42:47. > :42:49.you want to pay people more? I have told you about some of the measures
:42:50. > :42:52.we have taken to make sure people get a real living wage, as opposed
:42:53. > :42:54.to that put forward by the UK Government. We are actively doing
:42:55. > :42:57.things like that, but you cannot get away from the fact that when the
:42:58. > :43:01.budgetary system is run in the way it is in the UK and money comes to
:43:02. > :43:04.Scotland, in order to make sure we are paying for services we need to
:43:05. > :43:09.make sure that money is going to protect people and that is what we
:43:10. > :43:13.have done in terms of pay and we have made sure that we have
:43:14. > :43:17.introduced the living wage, that nurses get paid more in Scotland
:43:18. > :43:20.than in England, and we are actively looking at the pay restraint issue
:43:21. > :43:24.because of the fact that inflation now makes it look completely
:43:25. > :43:30.unsustainable. There was a suggestion by some SNP members that
:43:31. > :43:40.the nurse we were talking about was married to at Conservative member,
:43:41. > :43:45.that is untrue. Is that the kind of thing that should be put forward by
:43:46. > :43:48.your party? Somebody said something onto it and almost immediately
:43:49. > :43:53.apologised for it, that was the fact of the matter. But do you agree that
:43:54. > :43:56.that was unacceptable and inappropriate? Of course, it is
:43:57. > :44:00.never acceptable to use that kind of thing. But can I come back to what I
:44:01. > :44:04.was going to say about universal credit, because this is an issue of
:44:05. > :44:17.pay and the ability of people to live their lives in Scotland.
:44:18. > :44:21.I have just come from a meeting of universal credit in Inverness, where
:44:22. > :44:24.it has been rolled out early across this area, it is coming to the rest
:44:25. > :44:26.of the UK shortly and we have got people, because of the universal
:44:27. > :44:28.credit changes that the UK Government are making, working
:44:29. > :44:30.people who are suffering because of cuts to those benefits that are
:44:31. > :44:33.coming out, it is also affecting the disabled and the unemployed as well.
:44:34. > :44:37.Just because I have not that that much more time with you, let's have
:44:38. > :44:41.a look at your manifesto, which is coming out tomorrow, I understand.
:44:42. > :44:45.Can we look forward to an end to the public pay freeze in that manifesto?
:44:46. > :44:48.I'm not going to pre-empt the manifesto launch tomorrow but what I
:44:49. > :44:53.can tell you is that our manifesto will be looking after people with
:44:54. > :44:57.fairness and equality at its heart, unlike what we have seen from the
:44:58. > :45:01.Tory manifesto which attacks pensioners... We have done that, I
:45:02. > :45:05.am more interested in your manifesto. We will see it tomorrow
:45:06. > :45:10.and we will no doubt talk to you again, thank you very much.
:45:11. > :45:13.As well as discussing all of the main parties contesting
:45:14. > :45:15.this general election, we're also looking at the platforms
:45:16. > :45:17.of the smaller parties and today it's the turn
:45:18. > :45:21.The BNP is a nationalist party and it says it wants
:45:22. > :45:29.They are pledging to stop all immigration into the UK,
:45:30. > :45:31.and offer grants to people of foreign descent who volunteer
:45:32. > :45:38.They want to stop what they call the "Islamisation of the UK" and ban
:45:39. > :45:41.hijabs, burkas and the building of new mosques.
:45:42. > :45:43.They also want to abolish anti-discrimination laws,
:45:44. > :45:46.and be tough on law and order by re-introducing the death penalty.
:45:47. > :45:48.We've been joined in the studio by party spokesman and general
:45:49. > :45:59.I am joined by Adam Walker. It is reported your membership is down to
:46:00. > :46:03.a few hundred. In the last election, you lost 99.7% of your vote share,
:46:04. > :46:07.winning just 1600 votes and the party has been riven with infighting
:46:08. > :46:12.and defections. Why is the party in such a perilous state? Yes, it has
:46:13. > :46:19.been quoted that our membership is right down. Isn't it? No, it is at
:46:20. > :46:23.about 3000. What we have to remember is that every month and every year
:46:24. > :46:25.for the past seven years, we have actually operated in a profit. We
:46:26. > :46:31.are doing quite well in that respect. How many members have you
:46:32. > :46:37.got? About 3000, but it is growing. We are doing a lot better since the
:46:38. > :46:46.collapse of Ukip. Doing better since that? How much, though? There has
:46:47. > :46:49.been a decline in membership in the last few years. How much of that is
:46:50. > :46:52.down to your leadership? It is not down to my leadership. We have Ukip,
:46:53. > :46:55.who have been promoted by the mass media. They are doing better than
:46:56. > :47:00.you and are more appealing? They have done in the past. What we have
:47:01. > :47:04.seen with the collapse of Ukip since Brexit, we are gaining members from
:47:05. > :47:08.them and we are pleased about that. One of your policies is zero
:47:09. > :47:13.tolerance for drug dealers and violent thugs. But you were given a
:47:14. > :47:17.six-month suspended sentence in 2012 after verbally abusing three young
:47:18. > :47:22.schoolchildren, chasing them in your 4x4 and slashing the tyres of their
:47:23. > :47:28.bikes with a knife. You were a schoolteacher at the time? If that
:47:29. > :47:31.is not thuggish behaviour, what is? EU the judge described it as a Rush
:47:32. > :47:38.of blood to the head, I apologise that the time. Are you the right
:47:39. > :47:41.person to be the party leader? I do apologise for that and I said I
:47:42. > :47:48.apologise. If we look at criminality, we need to look at the
:47:49. > :47:51.recent programme, talking about the criminality happening in towns...
:47:52. > :47:57.You can't brush it to the side like that. You are the chairman of the
:47:58. > :48:00.British National Party and yet that sort of behaviour, you think, can be
:48:01. > :48:05.excused by a brief rush to the head? It can't be excused at all, I
:48:06. > :48:08.apologise that the time... But you had a six-month suspended jail
:48:09. > :48:14.sentence. If we want to look at criminality, look at what has
:48:15. > :48:18.happened in Rochdale... And those people were convicted and went to
:48:19. > :48:23.jail. Would you be happy for one of them to be in charge of all the
:48:24. > :48:27.chairman of a party? If we want to look at other criminals, we cannot
:48:28. > :48:31.get Tony Blair, who took us to an illegal war under the pretence of
:48:32. > :48:35.weapons mass destruction. I believe, and members of our party believe,
:48:36. > :48:40.that he should be up in court as a criminal. They are not here, and you
:48:41. > :48:44.are, fielding candidates at this election. You have been banned from
:48:45. > :48:53.teaching... I have not. You still teach karate, should you? Of course
:48:54. > :48:56.I should. After you chased three children and slashed tyres with a
:48:57. > :49:02.knife? I have recommendations from people that come to my club. I teach
:49:03. > :49:05.children and have international champions that train from my club,
:49:06. > :49:09.nobody has a problem. Let's move away from your character and onto
:49:10. > :49:12.policies. You want to offer repatriating grants to encourage
:49:13. > :49:17.people for dissent to leave the country? We believe Britain is full.
:49:18. > :49:22.Who would be eligible? There are enough people in Great Britain now.
:49:23. > :49:26.I have taken my other guests through specific policies, who would be
:49:27. > :49:30.eligible? There are far too many people in our country at this point
:49:31. > :49:33.in time. There is enough... The infrastructure can't deal with the
:49:34. > :49:39.amount of people coming in and we need to make sure that they... How
:49:40. > :49:41.would you do it? What the Government should have done, consecutive
:49:42. > :49:48.governments beforehand, they should have done a feasibility study to
:49:49. > :49:52.find out how many people are needed in infrastructure, schools,
:49:53. > :49:58.hospitals, emergency departments. Sure, I take your broad point, that
:49:59. > :50:02.you feel hospitals, schools, they are under pressure. But what I am
:50:03. > :50:06.asking you, you are wanting to offer repatriating grants to encourage
:50:07. > :50:10.people of foreign descent to go back, in your words, to the country
:50:11. > :50:16.you think they came from. Who would be eligible for the grant? I have
:50:17. > :50:21.spoken to parents recently on the school gates and they are really
:50:22. > :50:24.concerned about the amount of people that are being allowed to come in...
:50:25. > :50:29.Are you just offering simple solutions that don't add up to a row
:50:30. > :50:35.of beans? If you would be eligible? Would it just be people who were
:50:36. > :50:40.born abroad? Certainly not. Who would it be? Can you tell me? We
:50:41. > :50:43.could use some of the money that we currently spend on foreign aid, I
:50:44. > :50:48.think nobody has mentioned that one so far in the election debates. I
:50:49. > :50:53.think it is about ?13.5 billion that is being spent in foreign aid to
:50:54. > :50:57.some of the most corrupt countries. But which people do you want to
:50:58. > :51:03.leave the country? If talking about? We're not saying that we want people
:51:04. > :51:08.to leave. We are saying that we want to halt immigration... What is a
:51:09. > :51:12.repatriation grant for? We need to find out who is in this country
:51:13. > :51:17.legally and who is here illegally. Once we have done that, we can...
:51:18. > :51:22.Move on from there. You are going to pay people who are here illegally to
:51:23. > :51:27.go back to where you think they have come from? Well... We have far too
:51:28. > :51:30.many people in the country at this point in time and we need to stop
:51:31. > :51:35.it. People are suffering on the streets. I have spoke to people on
:51:36. > :51:40.the streets. I even spoke to a Jamaican lady the other day, and she
:51:41. > :51:44.is fed up of immigration. But this is one of your policy solutions.
:51:45. > :51:48.What do you say to those that claim you are a racist party? It is
:51:49. > :51:52.nonsense, it is not racist to oppose mass immigration. The Archbishop of
:51:53. > :51:56.Canterbury said himself that is not racist to oppose mass aggression.
:51:57. > :52:00.But you haven't been able to explain one of your key policies, a
:52:01. > :52:04.repatriation grant. We are not racist, it is just a label that has
:52:05. > :52:10.been put on us over the years. It is not racist to oppose mass
:52:11. > :52:13.immigration. It is a numbers game. A few years ago, Nick Griffin, the
:52:14. > :52:19.leader of the party, said we are a racist party. Is he joking? That is
:52:20. > :52:24.why he is not the leader any more. Because he was wrong? Why did he
:52:25. > :52:27.think the BNP is a racist party, his own party? I don't know what Nick
:52:28. > :52:34.Griffin thought. You say you wanted to stop the Islamisation of Britain,
:52:35. > :52:37.banning the burqa, the building of new mosques, wider focus on Muslims?
:52:38. > :52:49.We don't think Islam is compatible with our way of life, as we said rig
:52:50. > :52:53.saw recently. What about... What about British Muslims is not
:52:54. > :52:56.compatible? There are a small number of Muslims that are extremist and we
:52:57. > :53:02.think the government job is to protect the people of Great Britain,
:53:03. > :53:07.protect them in a way that is suitable for them. Do you not think
:53:08. > :53:11.there are extremists in all walks of life? Yes, but if we look at the
:53:12. > :53:16.recent events that have happened here, just down the road, somebody
:53:17. > :53:21.was mown down by a Muslim extremist. We have female genital mutilation,
:53:22. > :53:26.acid attacks, people that our gang raped. Are you an extremist?
:53:27. > :53:27.Certainly not, I am the opposite. Thank you very much.
:53:28. > :53:29.Throughout this week we'll be talking to representatives
:53:30. > :53:31.of the five main parties seeking election in Northern Ireland.
:53:32. > :53:34.We start with the smallest of the five, the Alliance Party,
:53:35. > :53:41.and its deputy leader Stephen Farry joins us live from Belfast
:53:42. > :53:48.Welcome to the Daily Politics. What would you say is a success in this
:53:49. > :53:51.election for you? In the past we have had elected MPs in Northern
:53:52. > :53:57.Ireland, our current leader, and we are hopeful to get one or two seats
:53:58. > :54:00.this time around. We are in a very confident place, we had a very good
:54:01. > :54:04.election in the recent assembly election in Northern Ireland, where
:54:05. > :54:11.we had an almost 50% increase in our vote in the space of 12 months. The
:54:12. > :54:14.main liberal cross community party in Northern Ireland, we are in a
:54:15. > :54:20.good place. The politics are in a precarious situation. In 2016, you
:54:21. > :54:24.didn't win any seats and you lost your only one, Naomi Long, who you
:54:25. > :54:27.mentioned. What are you offering this time that makes you confident
:54:28. > :54:32.that the results are going to be better? Well, we offer a clear
:54:33. > :54:36.alternative. We are not a unionist or Nationalist party. Insofar as
:54:37. > :54:39.politics in Northern Ireland can be very polarised, we are the response
:54:40. > :54:44.to that in the sense that we are offering a different type of
:54:45. > :54:47.approach, focusing on the region of northern Ireland as a whole,
:54:48. > :54:52.representation of the entire community, bringing it into the 21st
:54:53. > :54:55.century. We have a track record of success on the ground, when we have
:54:56. > :54:59.been in government in Northern Ireland in the past. And we have
:55:00. > :55:04.been in Westminster, in the past. In 2015, our vote went up, although the
:55:05. > :55:07.breaks did not fall for us in terms of winning seats. You have been
:55:08. > :55:10.critical of the Conservative Party plans for Brexit, do you accept that
:55:11. > :55:15.if they win this election they will have a mandate from the people for
:55:16. > :55:19.what you would call a hard Brexit? Well, there is a mandate from the
:55:20. > :55:22.referendum last year and, potentially, through the general
:55:23. > :55:26.election. The reality is, no matter what happens for the UK as a whole,
:55:27. > :55:33.Northern Ireland is a special case. We do have the option, the option to
:55:34. > :55:37.rejoin the European Union through a united Ireland at some stage, if
:55:38. > :55:40.that is what the people of Northern Ireland choose. We have the Good
:55:41. > :55:43.Friday agreement and Northern Ireland only works on the basis of
:55:44. > :55:47.sharing and interdependence. Brexit is about putting up new divisions
:55:48. > :55:49.and barriers. There has to be some sort of special arrangement put in
:55:50. > :55:53.place for Northern Ireland, not least because of the fact that we
:55:54. > :55:57.have a land border with the remainder of the European Union
:55:58. > :56:01.through the Republic of Ireland. As you say, that could be the focus of
:56:02. > :56:07.the Brexit negotiations, the issues you just outlined. This election
:56:08. > :56:09.takes place amid a background of uncertainty for devolved
:56:10. > :56:13.institutions. Do you think that might help your party, ironically?
:56:14. > :56:16.Certainly, people are very concerned and frustrated at the lack of
:56:17. > :56:21.progress we have seen in recent years. The issues we have fallen out
:56:22. > :56:24.over are very narrow. But the divisions between the parties are
:56:25. > :56:29.very deep. Indeed, they are very bitter. It is a real tragedy this is
:56:30. > :56:32.happening at this time. We need our own local executive to stand up for
:56:33. > :56:35.Northern Ireland, particularly with Brexit negotiations looming. There
:56:36. > :56:40.is a real desire on the half of the European Union to address the Irish
:56:41. > :56:44.issues at the forefront of the negotiations. Are you reassured by
:56:45. > :56:48.the fact that all the parties, pretty much all of them involved,
:56:49. > :56:52.have said that Northern Ireland and the border issue will be one of the
:56:53. > :56:56.first issues they will try to resolve in the Brexit negotiations?
:56:57. > :57:01.We are reassured in the sense that everybody is saying that. In
:57:02. > :57:06.practice, whenever you try to avoid this frictionless border on the
:57:07. > :57:10.island of Ireland, there is a lot of platitudes, no return to the borders
:57:11. > :57:15.of the past. Nobody to date has really spelt out how we can avoid
:57:16. > :57:19.that, when the UK leaves the customs union. There is no example anywhere
:57:20. > :57:24.else in the world where there is not a physical border and a customs
:57:25. > :57:28.frontier. We will be talking to representational the other Northern
:57:29. > :57:31.Ireland parties later this week. Now, as part of the BBC's general
:57:32. > :57:33.election coverage our very own Andrew will be interviewing
:57:34. > :57:36.a different party leader in-depth And first up is the Prime
:57:37. > :57:39.Minister, Theresa May. That's The Andrew Neil Interviews,
:57:40. > :57:49.with Theresa May, tonight We didn't have time earlier to give
:57:50. > :57:53.you the quiz. You thought you were getting away with it!
:57:54. > :57:58.What do you think is happening in this picture?
:57:59. > :58:10.Do you know what the answer is? I don't! I thought you were going to
:58:11. > :58:14.say yes. What does it look like? Is it to commemorate the signing of a
:58:15. > :58:19.deal? It looks like something out of a sci-fi film.
:58:20. > :58:22.Donald Trump was with King Salman of Saudi Arabia and President Sisi
:58:23. > :58:25.of Egypt at the ceremonial opening of the Global Centre
:58:26. > :58:27.for Combating Extremist Ideology in Riyadh, during the US President's
:58:28. > :58:40.Of course(!) What do you mean, you didn't have a clue! It looks more
:58:41. > :58:43.like a seance. The other worrying seen, waving swords around.
:58:44. > :58:45.Thanks to Theresa, Chuka, and all my guests.
:58:46. > :58:48.The One O'Clock news is starting over on BBC One now.
:58:49. > :58:51.I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the latest
:58:52. > :58:54.election campaign news - do join me then.