:00:38. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:41.With the election not much more than a week away,
:00:42. > :00:47.the contest for who will get to Number 10 is is getting serious.
:00:48. > :00:50.After a tricky time following the U-turn on her manifesto,
:00:51. > :00:53.Theresa May is trying to refocus minds on who is best placed
:00:54. > :00:58.Jeremy Corbyn won praise for staying clam under hostile
:00:59. > :01:02.But it seems he hadn't done his homework
:01:03. > :01:07.Nicola Sturgeon has been launching the SNP manifesto this morning.
:01:08. > :01:10.They're promising a big increase in public spending,
:01:11. > :01:16.a rise in income tax and a new immigration policy for Scotland.
:01:17. > :01:18.And we'll be talking about the newest addition
:01:19. > :01:30.I don't mean to be rude. You seem to be a bit of a glumbucket. Are you
:01:31. > :01:36.enjoying the campaign? And with us for the whole of the
:01:37. > :01:41.programme today, it's the former cabinet minister and now Times
:01:42. > :01:43.columnist Michael Gove. He's hoping to be elected
:01:44. > :01:46.again as an MP next week. He was the Justice Secretary
:01:47. > :01:49.until he ran against Theresa May for the leadership of
:01:50. > :01:52.the Conservative Party. But he says she showed very good
:01:53. > :01:56.judgement by giving him the sack - and the highlight on TV
:01:57. > :02:03.wasn't a Bond film. If you're a political obsessive
:02:04. > :02:06.like us, it was the first big live television appearance by Theresa May
:02:07. > :02:09.and Jeremy Corbyn but appearing one after the other
:02:10. > :02:18.on Sky News and Channel 4. I want to live in a world
:02:19. > :02:23.that is free of the danger We are increasing the funding
:02:24. > :02:27.into the health service, and will increase funding
:02:28. > :02:30.into the health That's why we've pledged to provide
:02:31. > :02:36.10,000 more police on our streets, and we want a foreign policy that
:02:37. > :02:41.didn't leave large areas I think what is important now
:02:42. > :02:49.is that we ensure that we get Free movement is implicit
:02:50. > :02:55.in membership of the European Union. It obviously stops when we leave
:02:56. > :02:57.the European Union. The Labour Party's manifesto,
:02:58. > :03:00.we know the figures don't add up. What is important
:03:01. > :03:03.is that as we look... Benefits will be uprated,
:03:04. > :03:11.and be uprated, of course. What we are doing is putting forward
:03:12. > :03:14.a proposal that means people don't have to sell their house
:03:15. > :03:20.in their lifetime to pay for care. It means they can pass on savings
:03:21. > :03:25.to their children and it means There is nothing in this manifesto
:03:26. > :03:31.about getting rid of the monarchy, which is another thing you believe
:03:32. > :03:33.in, isn't it? Look, there's nothing in there
:03:34. > :03:38.because we're not going to do it. Well, we're joined now by the Shadow
:03:39. > :03:52.International Development minister, Welcome back to the Daily Politics.
:03:53. > :03:57.Thank you. Before I come to you, I want to start with Michael Gove. Do
:03:58. > :04:01.you accept that the hubries of calling a snap election which
:04:02. > :04:05.Theresa May said she wouldn't do repeatedly, meanted you had to draw
:04:06. > :04:11.up a manifesto very quickly and now you're suffering to are it? No. Why
:04:12. > :04:15.not? The reason for calling the election was perfectly clear as the
:04:16. > :04:17.Prime Minister pointed out. 9 Labour Party, Liberal Democrats and
:04:18. > :04:21.Scottish National Party said they would recognise our progress to
:04:22. > :04:26.securing a proper Brexit and we needed to have an election in order
:04:27. > :04:31.to strengthen Theresa's hands. We are seeing that across the country.
:04:32. > :04:36.People recognising in 11 days' time, after the general election, we'll
:04:37. > :04:40.send someone to Brussels to see out our departure from the EU. Jeremy
:04:41. > :04:44.Corbyn and the Prime Minister are convinced Theresa May's the right
:04:45. > :04:48.person to be in those negotiations. What evidence is there for that? If
:04:49. > :04:54.you look at the polls, they've gone from a 24 point lead for Theresa May
:04:55. > :05:01.to anything between a 5 and 14 point lead. Most of the questions last
:05:02. > :05:07.night were on domestic Poking Si. A social care cap. A massive you turn
:05:08. > :05:11.by Theresa May. Is she suffering from wanting a bigger majority for
:05:12. > :05:15.Brexit and actually writing a manifesto that's crashed and burned
:05:16. > :05:19.in terms of social care and pensioners missing out on the winter
:05:20. > :05:23.care allowance? There are so many questions in there. Try answering
:05:24. > :05:28.some of them. I will. The first thing is hub rice. We all see when
:05:29. > :05:32.the election results are recorded whether it is the rights decision to
:05:33. > :05:36.make. I think it is. We'll see Teresa returned with an increased
:05:37. > :05:43.majority. How big do you think the majority needs to be. If she gets a
:05:44. > :05:50.few more seats, will it be worth it? I'm not a commentator. You have a
:05:51. > :05:54.judgment. My judgment is Teresa will emerge strengthened as she has from
:05:55. > :05:59.this debate process. You ask about the manifesto. There's a stark
:06:00. > :06:04.contrast from our deep manifesto. When you say deep. On costing, there
:06:05. > :06:08.wasn't a cap on social care. Now there S you'll take away the
:06:09. > :06:12.universal benefit on pensioners in terms of winter fuel allowance.
:06:13. > :06:18.What's detailed about that? We've had more detail in our manifesto
:06:19. > :06:25.than Labour has. What's de-day-old about the figures? What is detailed
:06:26. > :06:29.is we've far more detail on how to fund social care than any Government
:06:30. > :06:35.hitherto. On the winter fuel allowance and double lock, we've a
:06:36. > :06:39.far greater degree of detail about how pensioners will benefit. Which
:06:40. > :06:48.pensioners will lose the winter allowance. Wealthy ones. Cat
:06:49. > :06:53.guerreised by? Is there a figure? I'm responding on the basis you
:06:54. > :06:58.have' a pre-conceived notion. You've bout into a... That won't get you
:06:59. > :07:03.away from putting a figure. Pensioners will be worried about it.
:07:04. > :07:07.Of course they are worried about it. There has been a deliberate attempt
:07:08. > :07:12.by Labour in order to terrify pensioners. In fact, as Teresa's
:07:13. > :07:15.clarified, pensioners will have the reassurance of knowing there will be
:07:16. > :07:19.a cap on the amount that's paid. When it comes to getting the numbers
:07:20. > :07:23.right, Barry Gardiner, your party, it seems, has not learnt lessons
:07:24. > :07:28.following the fiasco of the police numbers. An another key policy
:07:29. > :07:31.announcement by Labour today on childcare and your leader Jeremy
:07:32. > :07:33.Corbyn didn't know how much it would cost. Let's take a listen.
:07:34. > :07:36.How much will it cost to provide un-means tested childcare for 1.3
:07:37. > :07:47.It will obviously cost a lot to do so, we accept that.
:07:48. > :07:53.The point I'm trying to make is we are making it
:07:54. > :07:57.universal so that we are in a position to make sure that every
:07:58. > :08:03.At the moment, get free places will continue to get them.
:08:04. > :08:05.Those that have to pay won't and we'll collect
:08:06. > :08:07.the money through taxation, mainly through corporate taxation.
:08:08. > :08:10.I'll give you the figure in a moment...
:08:11. > :08:16.You're logging into your iPad here, you've announced a major
:08:17. > :08:19.policy and you don't know how much it will cost?
:08:20. > :08:21.Can I give you the exact figure in a moment?
:08:22. > :08:25.Isn't this exactly the issue with people and
:08:26. > :08:28.the Labour Party - which came up under Gordon Brown - that we cannot
:08:29. > :08:37.All of our manifesto is fully costed and examined.
:08:38. > :08:40.But you're holding your manifesto, you're flicking
:08:41. > :08:43.through it, you've got an iPad there, you had
:08:44. > :08:44.a phone call while you were
:08:45. > :08:47.in here, and you don't know how much it is going to cost?
:08:48. > :08:49.Can we come back to that in a moment?
:08:50. > :08:56.This is a policy you're launching today, Mr
:08:57. > :08:59.Corbyn, and you don't know how much it is going to cost.
:09:00. > :09:09.How much will it cost? ?4.8 billion for the childcare. .5 billion for
:09:10. > :09:16.the restoration of over 1,000 Sure Start centres the Government have
:09:17. > :09:20.closed down. In terms of capital to increase the available childcare
:09:21. > :09:25.spaces, it will cost ?2.7 billion. The point I make is this. It wasn't
:09:26. > :09:31.the figure wasn't there or hadn't been costed. This is a rapid-fire
:09:32. > :09:34.general election campaign in which people, politicians are under
:09:35. > :09:38.spotlight. Do you know the answer to this? Do you know the answer to
:09:39. > :09:45.this. If I asked Michael, what was it you spent on early years
:09:46. > :09:50.education in the last year as your administration of Secretary of
:09:51. > :09:57.State, do you know the figure? No. ?2.9 billion. What was it you spent
:09:58. > :10:05.on five-16 on education? Year by year? Year by year. By the time of
:10:06. > :10:10.the end of process, it was about ?40 billion. You've made your point. The
:10:11. > :10:15.point for the taxpayer is they want to be reassured that certainly their
:10:16. > :10:23.party leaders and front bench spokes people do know how much it will
:10:24. > :10:27.cost. Otherwise... Joe the point is Labour want to sampling on spending
:10:28. > :10:31.but don't care how much it will cost? We do know. That's why we've
:10:32. > :10:37.produced this document. Jeremy Corbyn didn't. We are uniquely as a
:10:38. > :10:41.party, having produce add document, funding Britain's future, that sets
:10:42. > :10:46.out clearly what those costs are. Which the Conservatives don't have.
:10:47. > :10:53.It is about as reliable as a pension document? When in fact you asked
:10:54. > :10:58.whether he knew... Hang on. Go on. When you asked Michael, whether he
:10:59. > :11:02.knew how much or how many pensioners would lose out the winter fuel
:11:03. > :11:07.allowance, he didn't give you any answer. There are two answers out
:11:08. > :11:12.there from respectable organisations. One says it might be
:11:13. > :11:18.as many as ten million and the other six million. Michael didn't want to
:11:19. > :11:26.give that figure. They haven't been stated. Don't talk over each other.
:11:27. > :11:32.Let's talk about other figures. Your leader does not know what a flagship
:11:33. > :11:36.policy costs. I'm sorry, he does. He couldn't remember it in an instant.
:11:37. > :11:42.Is that acceptable in the middle of an election campaign? It is not just
:11:43. > :11:47.the childcare policy. You have this document Funding Britain's Future.
:11:48. > :11:52.In that debate, he was asked about benefits being uprated or frozen. In
:11:53. > :11:57.your manifesto, which I have here and the detail about benefits, it
:11:58. > :12:01.doesn't say you'll uprate all benefits which is what Jeremy Corbyn
:12:02. > :12:05.said in last night's debate. The reason is because the uprated
:12:06. > :12:09.benefit is costed in the Government red book. That's why it doesn't need
:12:10. > :12:14.to be costed here. Will it be frozen. For people on benefits, this
:12:15. > :12:17.is important. Is Labour going to continue with a four-year freeze on
:12:18. > :12:22.all benefits, which is what the Government's doing. Again a figure
:12:23. > :12:26.not in their manifesto. It could cost ?11 billion to people on
:12:27. > :12:33.benefits. Are you going to uprate them or freeze them? Jeremy's been
:12:34. > :12:41.clear they will be uprated every year. Job-seekers allow anxious
:12:42. > :12:47.and... He did not say all benefits. He said uprating benefits. That does
:12:48. > :12:50.not mean all benefits. Which ones? You made the point. I'm asking the
:12:51. > :12:56.questions here. I know, this is a good question. Which one? Michael
:12:57. > :13:01.also made the point you said people should know when they're launch can
:13:02. > :13:06.a policy. You will remember earlier in this campaign, Michael Hammond,
:13:07. > :13:12.Philip Hammond. Philip Hammond, when he was asked the cost of HS2 said it
:13:13. > :13:18.was ?32 billion. It is ?57.5 billion. The my point is these are
:13:19. > :13:21.the nit-picking things... They're important though, Barry Gardiner. It
:13:22. > :13:25.is important to know which benefits will be uprated? I've set out
:13:26. > :13:31.clearly what the benefits for childcare are. Where that money's
:13:32. > :13:35.coming from. We've costed it. What other benefits will be uprated? Are
:13:36. > :13:40.you going to uprate universal credit? All aspects of it, which you
:13:41. > :13:46.could say you got from Jeremy Corbyn's statement? What we said is
:13:47. > :13:49.there is is a ?10 billion, as yet unallocated, it will be ?2 billion a
:13:50. > :13:52.year over the lifetime of the Parliament, which will be done after
:13:53. > :13:58.we've reviewed the benefits and looked at the way in which we can
:13:59. > :14:02.uprate them using that ?2 billion. That's exactly what we said. It is
:14:03. > :14:07.in the manifesto. It isn't clear in terms of what you'll uprate and not.
:14:08. > :14:12.Noes physically which but we are conducting a review. If you remember
:14:13. > :14:15.last night, Jo, when she was pressed, Theresa May retreated time
:14:16. > :14:20.and time again into, well, we're going to do a review in that. We're
:14:21. > :14:27.going to review that. We were upfront. We said we've allocated the
:14:28. > :14:30.money, ?10 billion. Let's put that to Michael Gove. That's the
:14:31. > :14:33.difference. Green papers, white papers, looking ahead to
:14:34. > :14:38.consultation, there is nothing specific about the big issues in the
:14:39. > :14:43.Tory manifesto. When you say people will want to know, they will what
:14:44. > :14:49.the cap is on social care. Yes, there was. 82 pages of detail. I'm
:14:50. > :14:54.asking about your social care cap. What is the cap going to be? What
:14:55. > :14:58.should it be? There wasn't going to be one. There will be a cap. The
:14:59. > :15:04.Prime Minister... We don't know what it will be? No, we don't. Damian
:15:05. > :15:14.Green said there would be no U-turn or cap. She had to come out. She
:15:15. > :15:17.realised it was unpopular. I think there have been more unpopular
:15:18. > :15:22.manifesto policies, including Labour's defence and... Can you
:15:23. > :15:29.answer the question on social care cap. The specific question springs
:15:30. > :15:35.from how we'll fund our commitments. You've Jeremy Corbyn who has zero
:15:36. > :15:40.credibility and Theresa May who's been in Government... And have
:15:41. > :15:44.failed on every single policy they've set in 2010. They said they
:15:45. > :15:49.would end the deficit and they didn't. I can see the twinkle in
:15:50. > :15:54.your eye and smile on our face. In defiance of the facts. Barry and
:15:55. > :15:58.Michael. You may be a knock about duo here. You mustn't talk over each
:15:59. > :16:02.other. The viewers can't hear. Stay with us.
:16:03. > :16:06.Now, the Daily Politics moodbox is on tour during the election
:16:07. > :16:09.campaign, and today Ellie's in Luton where she's been asking
:16:10. > :16:11.what people think about the big question of security.
:16:12. > :16:21.I am in Stockwood Park in Luton, to be precise. The election campaign
:16:22. > :16:25.was postponed last week following the tragic events in Manchester and
:16:26. > :16:30.when it got underway, the parties were talking about that big issue of
:16:31. > :16:34.security. Specifically, the Conservatives promised a commission
:16:35. > :16:38.on tackling extremism. The Labour Party promised 10,000 new police
:16:39. > :16:42.officers and the Conservatives spent the weekend attacking Jeremy Corbyn
:16:43. > :16:46.on his links to the IRA during the troubles. Luton is home to two
:16:47. > :16:50.relatively safe Labour seats but it is the kind of place the Tories have
:16:51. > :16:54.their eyes on if they are to pull off that big landslide. It is a good
:16:55. > :16:58.place to ask the question on who you trust more on the question of
:16:59. > :17:03.national security, Labour or the Conservatives... ?
:17:04. > :17:14.They are not about taking them out, but making sure everyone is equal so
:17:15. > :17:20.I choose Labour. Jeremy Corbyn is more trustworthy. Not just that, but
:17:21. > :17:24.even if you did not know he was a politician he seems like a genuine,
:17:25. > :17:29.trustworthy possum. Who makes you feel safer, Labour or the
:17:30. > :17:34.Conservatives. Neither. Why not? I don't feel safe at all. When it
:17:35. > :17:39.comes to the idea of national security, I would rather trust the
:17:40. > :17:45.people who have been taking care of it for previous wiles. Rather than
:17:46. > :17:50.throwing my lot in with a new party. I think fate will decide it... It
:17:51. > :17:56.won't be fate but the voters! The red rose, the flower. I really like
:17:57. > :18:00.it. That is why I like Labour. Nothing to do with national
:18:01. > :18:05.security? I am about peace and love, and unity and care. It is very
:18:06. > :18:09.difficult on security because of the Trident thing with Jeremy Corbyn.
:18:10. > :18:19.But I don't trust the Conservatives on anything at the moment. Thank
:18:20. > :18:28.you. The Conservatives. Why? Jeremy Corbyn said he would not press the
:18:29. > :18:35.nuclear button. He is an idiot. Labour. The Conservatives... No! I
:18:36. > :18:41.mean Labour! I said the Conservatives by accident! I agree
:18:42. > :18:45.with Theresa May but I would rather vote for Corbyn. I like the way that
:18:46. > :18:49.Corbyn said that the reason why we have got all of these problems in
:18:50. > :18:52.our own country is because of the fact that we messed around in other
:18:53. > :18:59.people's countries. Instead of giving these people bread, and a
:19:00. > :19:03.form of security of being nice to these people, we've blown up their
:19:04. > :19:11.own children. Labour or the Conservatives? National security...
:19:12. > :19:16.She is sure! She is striding! We have run out of red balls. Luton has
:19:17. > :19:21.been Labour since 1997 and it looks like the town trusts the party more
:19:22. > :19:22.than the Conservatives on the issue of national security. Thank you,
:19:23. > :19:26.Luton. So that was our entirely
:19:27. > :19:30.unscientific moodbox. But what can the rather more
:19:31. > :19:32.scientific opinion polls tell us Well, we're joined now by
:19:33. > :19:40.the pollster Joe Twyman from YouGov. What is the latest in terms of
:19:41. > :19:44.people's views on security? The latest data coming after the events
:19:45. > :19:48.in Manchester show that around four in ten people trust the
:19:49. > :19:52.Conservatives on defence and security, and around two in ten
:19:53. > :19:57.trust Labour. It's a margin of two to one in favour of the
:19:58. > :20:01.Conservatives, and even in Labour voters, only half trust them to make
:20:02. > :20:04.the right decisions. When you look at individual personalities
:20:05. > :20:09.involved, half of people trust Theresa May and a third trust Jeremy
:20:10. > :20:15.Corbyn. About a quarter Amber Rudd and fewer than one in ten four Diane
:20:16. > :20:19.Abbott. A range of views, no one party completely dominates but the
:20:20. > :20:22.Conservatives are definitely in the best position. What is driving those
:20:23. > :20:27.views and opinions in terms of the party they are backing? In a lot of
:20:28. > :20:33.cases, in terms of who they are backing on security, and a lot of it
:20:34. > :20:35.is to do with a historical information and the kinds of
:20:36. > :20:41.narrative is the party has been putting out. Not only during the
:20:42. > :20:45.campaign but for some time now. Over the period immediately after the
:20:46. > :20:50.attacks at Westminster but also after the murder of Lee Rigby and
:20:51. > :20:53.the 7/7 bombings, we did not see much movement in voting intention
:20:54. > :20:56.figures then, but what we've heard time and again from the
:20:57. > :21:03.Conservatives in this campaign is that they, are to bore everyone with
:21:04. > :21:07.this line, strong and stable not only with the economy but when it
:21:08. > :21:12.comes to security. Divisions in Labour over things like Trident have
:21:13. > :21:14.not helped to counter that with their own stories. What about
:21:15. > :21:18.polling in general? Polling in general, we know that the
:21:19. > :21:24.Conservatives are pushing very hard on the idea of Theresa May as the
:21:25. > :21:28.person who should take the government forward. Polling on that
:21:29. > :21:32.remains pretty consistent, about half of people say that she would
:21:33. > :21:37.make the best Prime Minister, whereas between one in five and one
:21:38. > :21:41.in four people say Jeremy Corbyn. His ratings have improved and that
:21:42. > :21:44.gap has closed but not as much as the gap between the Conservatives
:21:45. > :21:48.and Labour in the dual voting intention poll which was mentioned
:21:49. > :21:53.at the start of the programme, with a 24 point lead when we started,
:21:54. > :22:01.since the events in Manchester, that lead was 5% in our poll from The
:22:02. > :22:07.Times on Friday, and 7% in The Sunday Times on Sunday.
:22:08. > :22:10.It is growing. Now, we return to normal proceedings, and the question
:22:11. > :22:16.is, will that bump that the Conservatives enjoyed this far, will
:22:17. > :22:20.that continue or allow change? As attention moves back to the economy,
:22:21. > :22:23.childcare, social care and other issues between now and election day.
:22:24. > :22:27.Joe Twyman, thank you. Michael Gove, let's return to that
:22:28. > :22:37.issue of security. Theresa May has been running the Home Office since
:22:38. > :22:40.2010, has she taken tough enough measures to tackle Islamic
:22:41. > :22:45.extremism? Yes. What could be done to strengthen the government's hand
:22:46. > :22:49.against extremism? As the Prime Minister made clear in the context
:22:50. > :22:53.of the manifesto, launching a commission to see how we can prevent
:22:54. > :22:57.extremism seems to be the next logical step... Really? Isn't that
:22:58. > :23:02.tinkering around the edges? No, I think it is an enhancement. She has
:23:03. > :23:05.been responsible for deporting more hate preachers than any other Home
:23:06. > :23:10.Secretary and put in place the counter extremism strategy which
:23:11. > :23:14.recognises you don't just seek to prevent violent extremism but
:23:15. > :23:17.intervene earlier to deal with extremism. She has been clear that
:23:18. > :23:21.when it comes to the different manifestations of extremist
:23:22. > :23:28.activity, we need a security apparatus ready to keep us safe and
:23:29. > :23:31.in contrast to Jeremy Corbyn who regards organisations like Hezbollah
:23:32. > :23:36.as his friends. You say they have been the right measures and she has
:23:37. > :23:41.deported a number of hate preachers, I do not know the exact number but
:23:42. > :23:51.the government says there are 23,000 terrorist attack is potentially in
:23:52. > :23:53.the country, several thousand being monitored in separate operations,
:23:54. > :23:58.they are very large numbers. They are concerning, the number
:23:59. > :24:02.23,000, we need to be careful. It is people who have sympathy with the
:24:03. > :24:06.ideology rather than those directly engaging in a plot. Could they be
:24:07. > :24:11.radicalised? Each of these figures, they are figures which are
:24:12. > :24:15.reflective of individuals and have already been on a radical journey.
:24:16. > :24:19.The difference between the approach we take and the approaching the last
:24:20. > :24:22.Labour government is we seek to intervene before people reach the
:24:23. > :24:28.point where they are ready to press the button on a bomb or pull a
:24:29. > :24:34.knife. We need to be ready to do the work at mosque and street level to
:24:35. > :24:37.counter extremism that wasn't being done in the same way by Labour. The
:24:38. > :24:40.problem is if Jeremy Corbyn has not backed any key pieces of
:24:41. > :24:43.legislation, when I interviewed your colleague Richard burden than a
:24:44. > :24:48.couple of days ago, you said it is compensated, you need to look at
:24:49. > :24:53.separate legislation. But there are key parts of the 2000 piece of
:24:54. > :24:57.legislation, the power to prescribe organisations and ban them. Jeremy
:24:58. > :25:00.Corbyn did not backed up. If you take Michael Gove's point that you
:25:01. > :25:04.need to intervene earlier, Corbyn was against all of those? What
:25:05. > :25:08.Jeremy has always been in favour of is making sure that we do not allow
:25:09. > :25:14.the terrorists to dictate the agenda. How do you do that? That
:25:15. > :25:17.means not letting them undermine the freedom and the right that we have
:25:18. > :25:23.in this country, the rights for proper judicial scrutiny when you
:25:24. > :25:28.are being detained. We have heard recently even Tarik before coming
:25:29. > :25:35.out and talking about internment, and appalling suggestion. All former
:25:36. > :25:44.heads of MI5 had been very clear about this. You have not answered my
:25:45. > :25:49.question about why it hasn't been backed by Jeremy Corbyn four pieces
:25:50. > :25:52.of legislation previously? I have explained, he wants to make sure
:25:53. > :25:58.terrorists do not set the agenda. The whole threat to this country has
:25:59. > :26:01.changed from the battlefields of the Middle East to the bedrooms of
:26:02. > :26:07.disaffected youths in this country. That is why the Prevent strategy,
:26:08. > :26:12.even David Andersen, who is the previous independent reviewer of our
:26:13. > :26:21.terror legislation has said that the Prevent strategy causes problems.
:26:22. > :26:28.Let Michael say... Jeremy Corbyn lead a minute's silence for the IRA
:26:29. > :26:32.in the 1980s. And calls Hezbollah his friends. The idea that Jeremy
:26:33. > :26:41.Corbyn is a credible... Shouting does not make your point any better.
:26:42. > :26:44.I am not shouting. I am making clear how outrageous it is, Barry, that
:26:45. > :26:51.you are defending as your leader is someone who led a minute of silence
:26:52. > :26:58.for Republican members... Shouting will not help you, Michael. Answer
:26:59. > :27:01.the question, why can't you? Does it undermine his credibility? I am
:27:02. > :27:06.happy to answer Michael's question but let's do it in a calm and
:27:07. > :27:14.reasoned way. OK? The point is, all that we had seen is in this election
:27:15. > :27:18.about security and has been trying to focus on smears, newspaper
:27:19. > :27:23.articles from 33 years ago. Let's focus on the policies. Let's focus
:27:24. > :27:27.on what now needs to happen to create a safer country. What
:27:28. > :27:32.policies would you enact? That is what I want to enact... Would you
:27:33. > :27:35.lead a minute of silence for terrorists? He is dodging the
:27:36. > :27:39.question. I am not dodging the question, give me a minute to come
:27:40. > :27:42.back without rudely interrupting, then I will be able to fully answer
:27:43. > :27:48.what the policies are that we are putting in place. That is why we are
:27:49. > :27:54.going to put an extra 10,000 police officers on the streets, that the
:27:55. > :27:58.present Prime Minister, as Home Secretary, cut by 20,000. She was
:27:59. > :28:06.the one, the moment she came into office in 2010, cut 5% of MI5, 5% of
:28:07. > :28:10.security and intelligence services, 5% of GCHQ staff. We have only begun
:28:11. > :28:14.to get back to the numbers of stopping that Bose security
:28:15. > :28:18.organisations had in the last financial year... That is a policy
:28:19. > :28:23.you want to increase the number of police officers. Can I say more as
:28:24. > :28:27.well? In a moment, do you admit cutting those police officers was a
:28:28. > :28:32.mistake? Don't shout at Barry Gardiner for a moment but answer my
:28:33. > :28:35.question. Cutting police officers and the number of soldiers in the
:28:36. > :28:39.Army who had to go out onto the streets of the country after the
:28:40. > :28:43.Manchester attacks, you cannot fight terror on the cheap? I never
:28:44. > :28:48.shouted, I ask tough questions that Barry dodged... Go on, answer my
:28:49. > :28:52.question. I do not think it was, I think it was striking that John
:28:53. > :28:57.McDonnell when he became Shadow Chancellor wanted to get rid of
:28:58. > :29:00.special Branch and get rid of MI5. John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn
:29:01. > :29:04.have been the terrorists friends, and not their enemies, over the
:29:05. > :29:10.course of their political careers. That is why Barry cannot answer the
:29:11. > :29:17.question. He led a minute of silence for Republican... Michael, we are
:29:18. > :29:18.going to run out of time. Answer the questions about previous
:29:19. > :29:27.associations that have been repeatedly pity you and your
:29:28. > :29:31.colleagues and Jeremy Corbyn. The point is this. Jeremy answered those
:29:32. > :29:34.questions fully last night. He said, on the television last night in
:29:35. > :29:41.those debates, he said the minute of silence that he participated in was
:29:42. > :29:45.for all of the people who died... That was counted, of course. We have
:29:46. > :29:50.had nothing but smears from history. Let's talk about policies going
:29:51. > :29:57.forward. We are saying that when this government has seen a rise in
:29:58. > :30:02.illegal border.. People coming in over the border illegally rise from
:30:03. > :30:06.1000 a month to 13,000 a month, that is why we are putting in place 500
:30:07. > :30:12.further border guards. We think it is ridiculous that you have two
:30:13. > :30:18.police the whole of the 11,000 coastline of the UK... We have
:30:19. > :30:24.policies that we want to put in place that will make us more secure.
:30:25. > :30:28.When you look at the way in which our prisons... Barry, I will need to
:30:29. > :30:34.share issue and Michael Gove, that is it.
:30:35. > :30:39.The partisan supporters are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at
:30:40. > :30:51.this campaign. Adam, can you tell us more? My goodness, what is he
:30:52. > :30:56.playing? Sorry, Jo. I am playing Corbyn Run, Theresa May is dropping
:30:57. > :31:02.bags of money on his head. I'm doing quite well but the music is
:31:03. > :31:06.incredibly annoying. Talking of Jeremy Corbyn, he has a new
:31:07. > :31:11.celebrity backer. I will give you a clue. An actor from the US, and he
:31:12. > :31:16.starred in big things like the best Batman film comedy sitcom Taxi and
:31:17. > :31:19.Twins with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who could it be? Take a look...
:31:20. > :31:23.It's diminutiv actor Danny de Vito who displayed his Corbynito
:31:24. > :31:27.The baked goods were the star as Liberal Democrat Leader Tim
:31:28. > :31:29.Farron visited a bakery to make some croissants.
:31:30. > :31:35.Food was consumed over on the Victoria Derbyshire programme
:31:36. > :31:38.where they set up Boris Johnson's sister on a blind date
:31:39. > :31:50.Could you make her unsee the light?
:31:51. > :31:52.Do you know what, I'm not going to answer that!
:31:53. > :31:59.Good grief, quick, time for a musical interlude.
:32:00. > :32:06.Conservative friends of India have released this little ditty.
:32:07. > :32:09.For those who aren't connoisseurs of Hindi pop, they're saying,
:32:10. > :32:14."Let's join hands with Theresa May for a strong and stable Government."
:32:15. > :32:17.In the category marked "slightly less flattering".
:32:18. > :32:29.This anti-Tory track is currently number two in the UK iTunes chart.
:32:30. > :32:35.I wonder what it looks like if we mash it up with some footage we
:32:36. > :32:39.found of Labour's Yvette Cooper teaching people to line dance?
:32:40. > :32:42.# We all know politicians like to telling lies
:32:43. > :32:44.# Big ones, little ones, porky pies
:32:45. > :32:53.# Saying they're strong and stable...#
:32:54. > :32:56.Wait for it, a giant question mark to highlight
:32:57. > :32:58.the lack of decent props, I mean, the lack of debate
:32:59. > :33:04.about environmental issues in the election campaign!
:33:05. > :33:08.The SNP launched their manifesto earlier this morning in Perth.
:33:09. > :33:11.It was delayed from last week, after the Manchester bombing.
:33:12. > :33:15.this is their programme for government in Westminster.
:33:16. > :33:23.They want to invest an additional ?118 billion in public services,
:33:24. > :33:28.which they say would put an end to Westminster austerity cuts.
:33:29. > :33:31.They say they would fund their spending plans
:33:32. > :33:34.by delaying reducing the deficit and increasing tax revenues by raising
:33:35. > :33:41.They also want to protect the triple lock on pensions,
:33:42. > :33:43.stop cuts to the winter fuel allowance,
:33:44. > :33:46.deliver extra investment for the NHS, social security
:33:47. > :33:51.There is also a commitment to increase the minimum wage
:33:52. > :33:54.to the same level as the "real living wage" over
:33:55. > :34:00.At present, those aged 25 and over are entitled to ?7.50 per hour.
:34:01. > :34:03.But the real living wage, currently set at ?8.45,
:34:04. > :34:09.is projected to rise to ?10.60 per hour by 2022.
:34:10. > :34:12.The SNP would also like the ability to set it's own immigration policy,
:34:13. > :34:16.which they say would give people the opportunity to come and go.
:34:17. > :34:26.to stay in the European Single Market after Brexit.
:34:27. > :34:31.On independence, they say Scotland should have a referendum at the end
:34:32. > :34:33.of the Brexit process. They previously said at the end of the
:34:34. > :34:35.next year or early 2019. Here's Nicola Sturgeon speaking this
:34:36. > :34:38.morning at her manifesto launch. This manifesto sets out a clear
:34:39. > :34:41.plan to end Tory cuts, protect Scottish jobs,
:34:42. > :34:46.and strengthen Scotland's hand. It is a manifesto with
:34:47. > :34:52.fairness, opportunity A manifesto for a country that is
:34:53. > :35:01.welcoming and outward looking. A manifesto that reflects our belief
:35:02. > :35:06.in the infinite possibilities open to the people of Scotland if we work
:35:07. > :35:10.together in the common good, to build the kind
:35:11. > :35:17.of country we know we can be. I'm joined now by the deputy leader
:35:18. > :35:29.of the SNP Angus Robertson, Angus, welcome to the programme. I
:35:30. > :35:35.hope you can hear me all right. Hi, Jo, I can. I may have to hold my ear
:35:36. > :35:41.piece. I can make you out. What's changed on independence? Why no
:35:42. > :35:45.referendum now till after Brexit. You had wanted next year or early
:35:46. > :35:49.2019? Nothing's changed. We've said we are in favour of the people
:35:50. > :35:53.having a choice about their future when we have clarity, the outcome of
:35:54. > :35:57.the Brexit negotiations. Its sometimes lost in the debate at the
:35:58. > :36:02.end of the negotiation, there is supposed to be a period for the
:36:03. > :36:07.approval or rejection of that deal. Because, of course, all 27 other EU
:36:08. > :36:10.member states will have a say in our future as well as the European
:36:11. > :36:14.Parliament. In those circumstances, we feel that is the appropriate
:36:15. > :36:18.time, when it is right for everyone else to have a consideration in our
:36:19. > :36:21.future, we think we should have that right as well rather than having
:36:22. > :36:26.others making decisions on our behalf. Isn't it a massive climb
:36:27. > :36:30.down to change the timing for that second referendum. In Nicola
:36:31. > :36:34.Sturgeon's speech there was barely any mention of it. It seems to have
:36:35. > :36:38.disappeared at all. Is that because the dial in terms of support for
:36:39. > :36:42.independence isn't moving in your favour? No, whoever was briefing you
:36:43. > :36:47.on that subject clearly doesn't know their subject material. There's been
:36:48. > :36:52.no change to our proposals. We've taken the view now is not the time.
:36:53. > :36:55.The Prime Minister and nicks had a sturgeon are at one on that issue.
:36:56. > :37:00.It is important people understand what the outcome of the Brexit
:37:01. > :37:05.negotiations are likely to be. Increasingly, people are right to
:37:06. > :37:09.fear regardless of whether they voted Leave or Remain, we're heading
:37:10. > :37:13.for the most damaging form of Brexit. In those circumstances, it
:37:14. > :37:18.would be right, we've had an election on that in Scotland, where
:37:19. > :37:24.the party had a manifesto commitment to holding a referendum on the
:37:25. > :37:36.outcome after Brexit negotiations, we won the election about being
:37:37. > :37:38.taken outs of the EU. You'll invest another ?118 billion for extra
:37:39. > :37:49.services. Where will you get the money from? It is ?128 billion. It
:37:50. > :37:54.is a mixture of ?118 billion by reprofiling the way the UK using its
:37:55. > :37:57.overdraft. Rather that cutting as deeply as the UK Government is
:37:58. > :38:02.proposing to do, it is extending that. It includes those on the
:38:03. > :38:08.highest incomes in the UK seeing taxes go up from 45p to 50p. It
:38:09. > :38:12.would allow a UK Government and the SNP, this was outlined today, we are
:38:13. > :38:15.in favour of spending on health in England rising to match that in
:38:16. > :38:19.Scotland. We think that would be the best thing for the UK as a whole. It
:38:20. > :38:27.is a fully costed manifesto. Sure, how is it going to come about? How
:38:28. > :38:33.are you going to introduce a 50p rate for high earners across the UK?
:38:34. > :38:37.If there's a majority in the UK Parliament to be South, that is what
:38:38. > :38:42.we will pursue. You're right... You're not a UK-wide party? No. I
:38:43. > :38:46.think you're suggesting given the Tories are likely to win the
:38:47. > :38:50.election, we will be unable to see that voted for in the House of
:38:51. > :38:54.Commons. What we are outlining is what we will support in the House of
:38:55. > :38:57.Commons if there were a majority to be found, we'd work with other
:38:58. > :39:03.like-minded parties to deliver changes like that. Why not do it for
:39:04. > :39:07.Holyrood? You've had an opportunity to increase income tax. You've never
:39:08. > :39:13.taken the opportunity to put a 50p rate on? On the issue of having a
:39:14. > :39:17.difference higher tax rate, there is a risk of losing higher taxpayers to
:39:18. > :39:21.the rest of the UK. You could lead the way. If there's a UK-wide
:39:22. > :39:24.pressures, we're standing in a Westminster election and you're
:39:25. > :39:31.asking us about our Westminster manifesto for a Westminster
:39:32. > :39:34.election. You've never Sloane any enthusiasm for increasing income tax
:39:35. > :39:39.to actually get more money. You always blame Westminster. Now you're
:39:40. > :39:43.proposing a UK-wide increase of a 50p rate for high earners when you
:39:44. > :39:46.are a party in Scotland. You're relying on a progressive alliance
:39:47. > :39:51.the Labour Party has rejected. In other words, you've put forward a
:39:52. > :39:56.policy that will never be enacted on the basis of what you put in your
:39:57. > :39:58.manifesto? You're predicated that on knowledge of the outcome of the
:39:59. > :40:04.General Election. Do you know what it will be, Jo? No, I don't. Do you
:40:05. > :40:08.know this will happen? Are you putting realistic policies into your
:40:09. > :40:14.manifesto rather rather than focusing on the powers have at your
:40:15. > :40:21.disposal to change the economy? It stands to reason a Scottish
:40:22. > :40:26.political party will not form a majority in a Government in the UK.
:40:27. > :40:29.If there is a possibility in Parliament to make sensible
:40:30. > :40:33.suggestions about having fairness, an end to austerity, better
:40:34. > :40:37.priorities, protecting the pensions, these are the things we want in the
:40:38. > :40:41.SNP. There are people across the UK who want these things too. Depending
:40:42. > :40:44.on the outcome of the election, if there is a possibility like-minded
:40:45. > :40:48.voices in the rest of the UK would support a more progressive form of
:40:49. > :40:52.politician, we'd work with them and see changes on this as well as the
:40:53. > :40:55.likes of protecting the pension. But in Scotland, where we're standing,
:40:56. > :40:58.that means people have a straight choice. That's what the election is
:40:59. > :41:03.here between the SNP and Tories. It is only SNP
:41:04. > :41:07.Parliamentarians who will stand up for these points. Tories MPs will do
:41:08. > :41:11.whatever Theresa May says to them. You want to control your own
:41:12. > :41:15.immigration policy. Do you have targets for net migration? The first
:41:16. > :41:19.thing to say is our key target at the present time is not losing
:41:20. > :41:24.people. As we already know, we are losing people back to other EU
:41:25. > :41:28.countries. Scotland's experience is immigration is hugely beneficial. In
:41:29. > :41:32.the first instance, we are wanting to make sure EU nationals have
:41:33. > :41:36.guarantees they can remain. We want to make sure further nationalities
:41:37. > :41:41.outside the EU aren't being forced to leave. That's a very regular
:41:42. > :41:45.occurrence. We want the Scottish Government and the Scottish
:41:46. > :41:48.Parliament to have the powers to manage immigration in Scotland so we
:41:49. > :41:52.can guarantee the immigration levels which are right for Scotland. In the
:41:53. > :41:56.first instance, that is not seeing it decline. The next question you
:41:57. > :42:01.might ask is whether that's workable. It is. If it is possible
:42:02. > :42:04.between different provinces and regions in Australia and Canada, it
:42:05. > :42:08.should be possible to do in the UK too. There needs to be a political
:42:09. > :42:13.willingness in Westminster to work with the Scottish Government. I
:42:14. > :42:17.would invite the incoming UK Government to respect the wishes of
:42:18. > :42:19.the electorate in Scotland on this and other issues and work with us to
:42:20. > :42:21.deliver better policies. Now our Guest of the Day,
:42:22. > :42:24.Michael Gove grew up in Aberdeen. That's a city where
:42:25. > :42:26.the Scottish Conservatives They're also targeting the border
:42:27. > :42:29.constituency of Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk which has
:42:30. > :42:32.the smallest SNP This constituency's most famous
:42:33. > :42:40.former resident, the novelist Sir For years, the plot in this
:42:41. > :42:50.constituency was pretty predictable, because it was a safe
:42:51. > :42:52.Liberal Democrat seat. It was a real page turner
:42:53. > :42:55.at the last election in 2015 because the SNP
:42:56. > :42:59.won here but only be It is a gripping
:43:00. > :43:06.battle between those who want an independent
:43:07. > :43:09.Scotland and those who support the union
:43:10. > :43:10.between The Tories reckon they can
:43:11. > :43:15.hoover up the votes of people who are opposed
:43:16. > :43:30.to independence. I wanted to show to
:43:31. > :43:32.the voters I recognised what was at stake with Scotland's's
:43:33. > :43:34.future in the UK. I don't want another
:43:35. > :43:36.referendum on breaking away I feel that if the
:43:37. > :43:42.voters return me as a member of Parliament
:43:43. > :43:44.on the 8th of June, I would be a powerful voice
:43:45. > :43:46.as You're not worried that
:43:47. > :43:50.by quitting as an SNP, Like you had victory
:43:51. > :43:55.in the bag and you are I've never felt confident
:43:56. > :43:59.before elections. I work as hard as I possibly can
:44:00. > :44:02.to secure every single vote. They are more likely to be
:44:03. > :44:12.scaring our cameraman than talking about what used
:44:13. > :44:16.to be their signature issue... What I think is really
:44:17. > :44:18.important is in this constituency and in this election,
:44:19. > :44:21.the focus is not independence. We haven't had a Tory
:44:22. > :44:26.MP here for 52 years because we do not relate to their
:44:27. > :44:28.values. That was the Tory party
:44:29. > :44:30.of the past, never mind an You will see and I'm
:44:31. > :44:37.sure you heard today that the Tories are trying
:44:38. > :44:39.to frame this in a constitutional
:44:40. > :44:44.question, forget about who we are. The Liberal Democrats say
:44:45. > :44:49.it is about Brexit as they try not to get squeezed out
:44:50. > :44:53.the picture altogether... We are the only party
:44:54. > :44:56.that is pro-union. When I have been speaking
:44:57. > :45:00.to people, especially are deeply concerned
:45:01. > :45:04.and worried by Brexit. What will that mean
:45:05. > :45:07.for this local community? What does it mean
:45:08. > :45:08.for farming subsidies? This is their campaign
:45:09. > :45:19.HQ which suggests how seriously they take
:45:20. > :45:23.the battle for this seat. There is a polarisation,
:45:24. > :45:29.undoubtedly, between those who are Unionists and those
:45:30. > :45:31.who are Nationalists. However, during the length
:45:32. > :45:33.of the campaign, we hope that we are actually going
:45:34. > :45:36.to cut through and make people realise that this
:45:37. > :45:42.is not just something about another
:45:43. > :45:45.referendum but about the future of If you want to preserve the Borders
:45:46. > :45:49.and keep them a living community, you need to get more jobs
:45:50. > :45:52.in and better money for the people It maybe isn't as dramatic
:45:53. > :45:56.as Ivanhoe or Rob Roy in the books he is famous for, but it
:45:57. > :45:59.is a new chapter in politics here. Welcome to the general
:46:00. > :46:15.election in Scotland. How far is Ruth Davidson in the Tory
:46:16. > :46:19.brand? She detoxified the brand... Tories have not appeared in some
:46:20. > :46:22.seats for 52 years... They talk about pandas and the number of Tory
:46:23. > :46:27.MPs, there must have been some detox in the brand? What Ruth has done is
:46:28. > :46:30.convincingly ensured that people have a clear choice in this general
:46:31. > :46:36.election and in the Scottish election last time around. One party
:46:37. > :46:39.standing unambiguously for the United kingdom, that is the Scottish
:46:40. > :46:46.Conservatives studied art and the Labour Party? As we have from Jeremy
:46:47. > :46:49.Corbyn himself on Sunday night is potentially open to independence. He
:46:50. > :46:53.changed the text of his speech. He was going to say he rejected the
:46:54. > :46:57.idea of independence. He watered it down and indicated he may talk to
:46:58. > :47:01.the SNP and that the same time Nicola Sturgeon was playing footsie
:47:02. > :47:05.with him, indicating she may support Corbyn. You believe the Tories will
:47:06. > :47:10.not get a second independence referendum, even if the SNP win the
:47:11. > :47:14.mandate for a second time at this election, she will deprive, and you
:47:15. > :47:20.think she should, if they win in a second independence referendum? The
:47:21. > :47:24.only way to ensure that is stopped is to vote for conservative in
:47:25. > :47:29.Scotland. When I was campaigning in Aberdeen South with Ross Thomson and
:47:30. > :47:33.in Murray, that everywhere I went there were people who had been
:47:34. > :47:36.Labour and Liberal Democrat who were now supporting Scottish
:47:37. > :47:39.Conservatives not just because Ruth Davidson was head and shoulders
:47:40. > :47:46.above their own party leaders... She has distanced herself from Tory HQ?
:47:47. > :47:51.She is standing up for Scotland. She is different? She is actually
:47:52. > :47:54.surprisingly similar to to reason. They are both churchgoing
:47:55. > :47:57.modernisers and both people with a strong reverence for the
:47:58. > :48:05.Conservative Party's traditions and succumbed to be in the 21st-century.
:48:06. > :48:09.The only way that you can guarantee there will not be the Scottish
:48:10. > :48:12.National article creating the instability of a second independence
:48:13. > :48:17.referendum and propping up a coalition in Westminster is voting
:48:18. > :48:23.conservative in Scotland. He has ruled out any sort of deal... He
:48:24. > :48:27.ruled out a deal before... However convenient it may be for the
:48:28. > :48:31.Conservative Party to link Labour and the SNP, you can look at a whole
:48:32. > :48:31.list of candidates for those constituencies in Scotland on the
:48:32. > :48:33.BBC website. Although the big beasts of politics
:48:34. > :48:36.were clashing over the bank holiday, there are some smaller political
:48:37. > :48:38.animals roaming the Throughout this election we've been
:48:39. > :48:45.searching out the smaller parties also standing for election and today
:48:46. > :48:48.we've got the Young People's Party The Young People's Party wants
:48:49. > :48:54.to rebalance the economy towards young people,
:48:55. > :48:57.who they say are the most They want to replace all taxes
:48:58. > :49:00.with a single Land Value Tax They would like to cut
:49:01. > :49:07.all taxes on private income. They would like to roll welfare
:49:08. > :49:10.payments into a universal Citizen's Income that everyone
:49:11. > :49:13.was entitled to. On law and order, they would make
:49:14. > :49:16.release from prison dependent rather than specifying a
:49:17. > :49:23.length of time to be served. And they want to legalise drugs,
:49:24. > :49:26.brothels and fox-hunting. We've been joined in
:49:27. > :49:35.the studio by Thomas Hall. Welcome. You say you want to
:49:36. > :49:39.rebalance society and will favour of what you call the productive
:49:40. > :49:42.society, in mind younger people, why are you pitting generations against
:49:43. > :49:48.each other? We don't want to do that at all. Old people have young
:49:49. > :49:54.children and young children, young people, have older relatives and
:49:55. > :49:58.friends. The real question is whether we pitched the funding of
:49:59. > :50:01.public services from those that contribute to the economy through
:50:02. > :50:06.their work, or those that collect the benefits of the country for free
:50:07. > :50:11.through rents. But you want to ultimately replace all taxes with a
:50:12. > :50:17.single land value tax. It may be very simple but it is hardly fair,
:50:18. > :50:23.is it? We believe the land value tax is the fairest of all, and our views
:50:24. > :50:30.are supported over the ages by great politicians like Winston Churchill,
:50:31. > :50:34.economists like Adam Smith. And many commentators have argued the land
:50:35. > :50:38.value tax is the least bad. Right, but it does not take any differences
:50:39. > :50:46.or variations in population, where they live or their incomes, and what
:50:47. > :50:51.they do? I will say it is quite the opposite. Those that occupy valuable
:50:52. > :50:55.locations currently enjoy the value added by all of society for free.
:50:56. > :51:05.Council taxes there but is very regressive. Could you
:51:06. > :51:08.improve value tax? Indeed, one sensible way of ending up with
:51:09. > :51:14.results that we are after is a revaluation of the council tax
:51:15. > :51:18.bands. It has not been done since 1991, probably putting a cue more
:51:19. > :51:21.bands at the top end as well. Successive governments have shied
:51:22. > :51:27.away from doing that but basically you want to tax wealth and assets,
:51:28. > :51:35.and not income? We do not see land as an asset in the traditional
:51:36. > :51:39.sense. We really want to identify those assets are which are property
:51:40. > :51:45.in the sense that someone has made them and put work into them and are
:51:46. > :51:49.theirs, from naturally occurring gifts of nature, if you like, that
:51:50. > :51:57.everyone contributes the value of them. We see policies from other
:51:58. > :52:00.parties, that certain industries are in line for nationalisation and
:52:01. > :52:05.others aren't. You ask, why one and not the other? It comes down to
:52:06. > :52:09.rent. We understand a water company is different to a social
:52:10. > :52:13.manufacturer, for example. The Labour Party says they are looking
:52:14. > :52:18.at a land value tax to replace council tax and business rates, the
:52:19. > :52:22.Conservatives call it a garden tax. Do you support that? We believe land
:52:23. > :52:25.value tax to replace council tax and business rates is a step in the
:52:26. > :52:29.right direction. Where our party stands apart from the Labour Party
:52:30. > :52:33.is we propose tax would be a replacement far more than council
:52:34. > :52:39.tax and business rates. We would raise 200 billion from a residential
:52:40. > :52:44.land value tax. With that, we can replace council tax from stamp duty,
:52:45. > :52:48.land tax, inheritance tax, insurance premium tax, national insurance,
:52:49. > :52:53.employers insurance... A whole host of annoying taxes as well. Would you
:52:54. > :52:58.back a re-evaluation of council tax and properties in this country? No.
:52:59. > :53:05.Why not? It isn't fair if it hasn't been done since 1991? When you have
:53:06. > :53:10.re-evaluation of any tax, then sometimes you create new winners and
:53:11. > :53:14.new losers. And new and fairness. The thing about land value tax is it
:53:15. > :53:17.is an interesting idea and as we have heard it has been championed in
:53:18. > :53:21.the past by distinguished figures but always one championed by
:53:22. > :53:25.opposition parties, like the liberals in the 1920s and 1930s. But
:53:26. > :53:29.when in government, they have found the process of bringing about the
:53:30. > :53:33.land value tax five righty of reasons has not been as easy as they
:53:34. > :53:38.would have hoped. Just because it is difficult it doesn't mean it is not
:53:39. > :53:41.right. Why is the focus on taxing income rather than assets?
:53:42. > :53:46.In London and the south-east, your asset has probably owned you more
:53:47. > :53:50.money than that money you and from your job? I think the best form of
:53:51. > :53:55.taxation is taxing assets and income, and spreading taxation as
:53:56. > :54:01.widely as possible. However elegant, I admire the party's position, but
:54:02. > :54:07.all of your eggs in one taxation basket can be risky. Do you accept
:54:08. > :54:13.that? No, otherwise we would not be pitching this. Ultimately, all value
:54:14. > :54:18.is derived from the land we live on. Without it there would be no value
:54:19. > :54:21.at all. All of those taxes we have on income or capital gain, all of
:54:22. > :54:27.these other taxes, they are ultimately derived from value in the
:54:28. > :54:33.country that we live in. So, we think we can simplify the tax system
:54:34. > :54:37.from 16,000 pages to 100. All parties claim to be able to do that,
:54:38. > :54:42.except when they get into government they make it more competent at?
:54:43. > :54:46.Indeed. There must be a reason for that? Yes, the current economy is
:54:47. > :54:48.based around a small number of people who benefit from the current
:54:49. > :54:53.situation. The rapidly diminishing number of
:54:54. > :54:54.homeowners and the young population who don't. Thank you very much.
:54:55. > :54:57.Thank you. Now, fans of a neologism -
:54:58. > :55:01.that's a new word to you or I - will have been pleased to hear one
:55:02. > :55:03.being coined yesterday. and it's been used to describe
:55:04. > :55:06.the Prime Minister. Here she is being questioned
:55:07. > :55:09.by the Daily Mail sketchwriter I don't mean to be rude,
:55:10. > :55:13.but you seem to be Will we see a bit more optimism,
:55:14. > :55:23.a bit more Boris, perhaps? Because it does seem a very
:55:24. > :55:29.subdued campaign, so far. Let's talk about this new word
:55:30. > :55:33.with Clifford Sofield. He works for the
:55:34. > :55:46.Oxford English Dictionary Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:55:47. > :55:51.Glumbucket, a new word for you? It is a new word for me but it is not a
:55:52. > :55:54.new word. It has been used before. It isn't in the dictionary. We
:55:55. > :55:58.haven't had the chance to research it completely that this morning I
:55:59. > :56:02.came across a few examples from newspaper columns and one of my
:56:03. > :56:09.colleagues and examples on Twitter going back to 2012. I was really
:56:10. > :56:15.interested to learn that in 1923, the New York Times printed an
:56:16. > :56:21.article which described David Lloyd George as a green bucket, meaning a
:56:22. > :56:28.pessimist. After he left Downing Street and he had a pessimistic view
:56:29. > :56:33.of your's future prospects. -- gloombucket. And how do you write
:56:34. > :56:38.it, with a hyphen or without? We describe how they are used, I say
:56:39. > :56:45.that bucket words that are similar to this, like fast bucket or a lard
:56:46. > :56:49.bucket, or a loved bucket are generally written with a hyphen, or
:56:50. > :56:54.as a single word... I have seen glumbucket both ways. Will it make
:56:55. > :56:58.it into the dictionary? We will wait and see, whether or not to include a
:56:59. > :57:02.word depends on how widely it is used and how long it continues to be
:57:03. > :57:07.used. We are monitoring glumbucket and we'll find out! Stay with us,
:57:08. > :57:17.Michael Gove, do you think that is the correct assessment, a glumbucket
:57:18. > :57:25.for the Prime Minister? And it is a fair assessment? No, I think of
:57:26. > :57:26.glambucket... Clifford, what you think of that? Glambucket,
:57:27. > :57:38.pronounced as" Lambooij K"? Tell us about other -- tell us about
:57:39. > :57:43.other words like Philip, they are words that have evolved over time?
:57:44. > :57:50.-- filibuster. They describe a particular thing. Whether glum
:57:51. > :57:55.bucket will become part of parlance in future depends on whether people
:57:56. > :57:58.continue to use it. It is up to the British people to decide! Any other
:57:59. > :58:09.phrases which caught your eye during the election? I had to do some
:58:10. > :58:15.interviews about mugwump, an old political coal word going back to
:58:16. > :58:18.the early 19th century which had a lot of currency, and the late 19th
:58:19. > :58:26.century regarding US presidential elections. IC, will you be advising
:58:27. > :58:34.the campaign to take your new word on board? Yes, glambucket. They will
:58:35. > :58:37.be well advised to stay away from these words! I thought you were
:58:38. > :58:41.going to say to keep away from you! I will leave it up to the campaign
:58:42. > :58:46.chiefs to decide what degree of proximity is appropriate! Coming up
:58:47. > :58:53.with these new words and new phrases, I'm doing my best to add to
:58:54. > :58:55.the lexicon... Clifford so field, I will say thank you and stick to
:58:56. > :58:57.simple words. Thank you to Michael Gove as my
:58:58. > :59:04.guest of the day, goodbye! I've had enough spin.
:59:05. > :59:12.Fake news.